What did we just witness? Was Jonas Vingegaard’s performance believable? Is there a way we can have more confidence in performances like this?
Jesse unveils the new “Nero Suit”, available for a limited time to buy. We look at the Specialized SL8 rumours as well as the UCI’s updated Trans-Gender policy.
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Footage Courtesy Of:
@CamNicholls
@GCPerformance18
@LanterneRougeCycling
@TourdeTietema
Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:20 WAS THAT TT BELIEVABLE
21:31 NERO SUIT NOW AVAILABLE
26:13 TOUR KIT FAILURES
32:27 NEW SL8
36:45 CAM NICHOLLS ELVES REVIEW
45:32 TOUR DE TIETEMA
51:23 UCI TRANS GENDER POLICY
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24 Comments
Responding to some of the key comments here, with more analysis:
– “Pog was tired, that’s why the gap was big”- possibly, he did look a bit off, and even worse the next day. Although UAE team manager stated Pogacars time was where they had modeled him to be, so he wasn’t “absolutely blown”. But agree likely he could have been slightly closer on a better day
– I regret the wording I used crediting the unbelievable nature of his TT just because of the time gap to Pogacar. As we’ve seen on Lanterne Rouge media, w/kg estimates for the final climb range from 7.4-7.6 w/kg. And that’s off the back of putting the fastest time on the first part of the course, riding faster than 75kg+ TT specialists. The outstanding nature of the ride goes beyond just his time in relation to Tadej
– Phil Gaimon is mostly ignoring the magnitude of the physical performance and diverting attention to the marginal gains. The comments related to his TT equipment and setup being fast: Look at the Dauphine TT result from 1 month ago, he was beaten by Bjerg on the UAE setup and the top 8 results within 1 minute of each other. No doubt he and Jumbo have done a lot of prep, but any big gains in setup, aero testing, etc would have been reflected in the Dauphine TT, but Jonas didn’t have a stand out result there. Regardless, the speed of his setup doesn’t change the magnitude of his physical performance on the day
– The comments related to his descending. He did a great descent, but most of the reason his descent was so fast is because he was doing more power than the rest of the field, therefore entering every corner at a high speed, and spending more energy pedalling when others were freewheeling. The insane descent speeds are just as reflective of the physiological performance as they are to being a better technical descender. Regardless, it doesn’t change the magnitude of his physical performance on the day
– The estimated power numbers for the final climb are well into the: we don’t think this is possible naturally category. Quoting the following w/kg analysis, it was “the greatest pure w/kg time-trial performance on a climb” and "This performance would put it as one of the greatest of all time.". It raises more questions- is that w/kg estimate accurate? If not, what power did he really do up the final climb? What power did he do before that in the lead into the final climb, for the effort overall? (https://lanternerouge.com/2023/07/19/vingegaard-destroys-tadej-pogacar-in-week-3-tour-de-france-2023-stages-16-17/)
– If we had the actual power data and further analysis released by Jumbo it would go a long way in bringing clarity on the performance. Without any more data, there will always be questions given the level of the performance.
Funny how you can go a month with minimal to no training and win a crit and you easily make excuses for your performance. But as soon as a pro has a great day you immediately go to doping. 🤣🤣.
Re the Elves video – people are just tired of it at this stage. The whole thing has been dragged on for way too many videos like you mentioned. The audience is bored. 99% wouldn’t buy an Elves anyway
The Netherlands and the Flemish region have almost 24 million people. Although it is in Dutch, 170k subscribers in the Mecca of Cycling ain't that much, TBH. Also, I have been following them since last year's Tour de France, all through the subtitles, but I don't think I'm alone in that spectrum of viewers.
I find it really disheartening reading some of these comments. If even so-called cycling fans are tying themselves in knots trying to explain away the most likely reasons for these performances then there’s not much hope of having a ‘clean’ sport at the elite level. There’s no incentive to ‘out doping’ because there’s too much money involved and the people that should be keeping them honest, us fans, are complicit in our denial.
I question every result from the previous 4 tours. The fact people swallow without question that a 21 year old on debut can win the tour to me is laughable. I don’t believe anything about his performances or the guy who is now beating him consistently either. Their speeds are ludicrous and the margin to the rest of the peloton is incongruous.
Analyze first then get to a conclusion, not like this 😢
Where is your part 2, stage 17 !? , the lack of knowledge is the root of all evil.
I really hope this TT leads to revealing power and other cool metrics like they do at f1
Jonas has on danish television, TV2, expressed understanding of the critical approach to whether he is clean, based on the history of professional cycling. Here is a suggestion as to why he does so well: https://youtu.be/bEMikLwvzoE
VERY IMPORTANT, CRITICAL!!! They said Pogi was doped because his time trial on Tour 2020. Let's have a look what was his and Jonas (time trial Tour 2023) advantage to followers per every kilometer:
POGI gained 2seconds per 1 km to second Dumoulain- VINGO gained 4,5 s per kilometer to second Pogi
POGI gained 2s per 1 km to third Porte- VINGO gained 8 s per kilometer to third Van Aert
POGI gained 2,5 s per 1 km to fourth Van Aert- VINGO gained 8 s per kilometer to fourth Bilbao
Let's look the difference between first and 3rd place.
Pogi 2020: 2s/km
Indurain's 1992 best time trial in history of Tour de France: 3,5s/km
Vingegaard 2023: 8s/ km
How many times 2 is 8? IT IS 4 TIMES FASTER THAN POGI!!!
In video he took literally 2 seconds in just the first swing.
Pogacar looked cooked before the rest day.
People have amazing legs sometimes.
Deserve?
Jesus, how pathetic can you fucking get. No real arguments, no facts, just ''Wow … I deserve and explanation'' My fucking god.
Can you explain the day you had great legs? I deserve an explanation for having great legs. I need it, I fucking deserve it.
………………………………………………………. Jesus christ what the fuck is this? How unprofessional can you get?
okay here are the things that probably added up. Pogacar was being cooked/better gear/much better aerodynamic position/taking risk downstairs/taking risks around ever corner taking second in every corner (btw proven by many video sequences that he took multiple seconds during dozens of corners)/Great legs … It does happen/Pogacar changed bikes which did not help.
……………….. Again, I don't think I have evere been so fucking disgusted by a podcast.
Stem cells, gentlemen
Tadej on his best would have been 30-35 sec behind. Wout neither at his very best. Surreal you wont think further than doping.
Compared to the first 2 weeks Jonas only looks that much better, because Pogacar is ordinary at this, and the next stage. He still has this heart, and now with continuing seasons without serious injuries. I KNEW Riis was doped, I KNEW Armstrong was, and I KNOW Jonas is not. Just not that kinda guy, able to lie to the whole world. NOT that kinda guy.
No….Jonas is exceptional ( super human) because he ate too much 🐠 🐠 🐟🐟eating fish is work as good as doing it EPO. Pro cyclists should try because eating fish is legal unlike EPO. So that’s why Jonas is exceptional cyclists, no one could beat him. No need EPO, or TUE just eat a lot of fish 🐠 you will fly….!!
Just read all the comments. Amazing how similar all Jonas defenders sound compared to Lances legions. How'd that work out?or Pantani's ever-faithful? Or Contadors? Or Wiggos Or Froomes? All caught doping!
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Hmm i don't think it is totally out of the realms of possibility that this was a genuine performance ( but hopefully if there is some new drug discoved in 5 yrs time they can retrospectively retest the yellow jersey s blood and put as all out of our Misery) but i have been telling mates to weeks that Jonas is targeting the TT to take has much time as possible for the ' smallest physical ' cost , his Tt performance have been really up there this year , for a few days before TT Pog looked f"*c-d , also sometimes rides have a day where they just ride out of their skin , , nearly all the riders in the top ten were like under 62 kg ' climbers ' the exception being WVA and Pedersen infact why aren't people going on about his performance someone who is coming second in the Spinters ( Point s ) clasfication gets 9 th in a hilly TTand if he had gone 30 second s faster would have got 5 the….😊
I turned off post the time trial, it made me sad to see, and it's so obvious, it's bad, really bad for the sport…
You have be taking the piss jessy
I think you should be looking at Pog's proformance! both riders are surposed to be almost equal if Pog's proformance was wiltering then that would explaine some of the time differance. This was very obvious on the next stage finish.
Is this how doping works? I didn’t think they actually do doping during races. Doping is taken during training to build up the physical condition to something beyond what otherwise could be achieved. But actually taking doping during the race as suggested in this video, that just seems extremely risky. I could be wrong on this I just didn’t think it’s how they do doping.
Didnt cicconi take the mountain points in the tt? So faster then jonas