I am currently attempting to build my first wheel and am having troubles with too long spokes/nipples. I want to ask for advice before I buy any more components.
I used two different online calculators for determining the necessary spoke lengths, and both returned the identical lengths. I have used the correct dimensions on the rim and hub – in the online calculators I have selected the components from the drop-down menu and double checked the physical parts. The calculator returned 287 mm for the drive side and 288 mm for non-drive side spoke length. I ordered all spokes with 288 mm length.
When lacing the wheel according to the Park Tool YouTube Video, I noticed I am not able to dish out the wheel or tension the spokes due to running out of thread on the spokes on the drive side. The nipples are completely threaded onto the spoke and the spoke starts to twist when turning further. There is also only about 1 mm reserve on the non-drive side. After inspection I suspect the nipples, I have bought are too long/not correct dimension. When looking at a spare spoke with a nipple completely threaded onto, the spoke end is flush with the nipple head (photo included). My plan is to get some 12 mm DT Swiss brass nipples and substitute with the current ones.
I included a photo of the laced wheel just to be sure I got that correct – am I missing something?
Thanks!
The components:
Hub Shimano FH-MT510 12×142 with 32 holes
Rim DT Swiss R470db 20×622 with 32 holes
Spokes DT Swiss Revolution 288 mm
Nipples “no name” brass with 14 mm length
Apprehensive-Pair436 on
Did that dt Swiss rim come with nipple washers? I haven’t had my coffee yet but if I recall they spec their rooms to be built with their washers.
That said, even with the washers it sounds like the spokes are merely too long. Without having the components here to measure I couldn’t tell you though.
I’ve built lots of wheels. Sometimes the spoke length calculations are simply off and you have to start over
nhluhr on
It’s not that the nipples are too long – the length of a nipple doesn’t change how far into the head it goes. Some nipples do have thread engagement that starts deeper in, such as the DT Squorx type or Alpina Self-Locking type. But I don’t think those will give you as much length as you need.
Referring to the cross-sections at [this website](https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/tech-threadengagement.php), you are reaching “state 1” before you’ve even dished/tensioned and obviously this is preventing you from completing the build. If you could use the deeper-engagement nipples, you might at best, get to “state 2” – still not ideal.
Somewhere between “state 2” and “state 3” is what you want to end up at. Any shorter and the nipple is loaded in tension at its neck (so nipples will frequently break) and any longer and you have minimal room for adjustment.
I’m afraid your short-side spokes are at least 2mm too long.
Accurate_Animator332 on
Did you physically measure the components at hand or did you source these measurements from online world of disinformation?
Bearded4Glory on
Nipple length doesn’t change the overall length of the nipple & spoke, it just pushes the area for the spoke wrench in or out so that you can reach it on deeper dish wheels.
Are you sure you used the correct lacing pattern? It looks like a 2 cross in the photo (its a little hard to tell at this angle) and maybe you used the calculator for 3 cross?
5 Comments
Hi,
I am currently attempting to build my first wheel and am having troubles with too long spokes/nipples. I want to ask for advice before I buy any more components.
I used two different online calculators for determining the necessary spoke lengths, and both returned the identical lengths. I have used the correct dimensions on the rim and hub – in the online calculators I have selected the components from the drop-down menu and double checked the physical parts. The calculator returned 287 mm for the drive side and 288 mm for non-drive side spoke length. I ordered all spokes with 288 mm length.
When lacing the wheel according to the Park Tool YouTube Video, I noticed I am not able to dish out the wheel or tension the spokes due to running out of thread on the spokes on the drive side. The nipples are completely threaded onto the spoke and the spoke starts to twist when turning further. There is also only about 1 mm reserve on the non-drive side. After inspection I suspect the nipples, I have bought are too long/not correct dimension. When looking at a spare spoke with a nipple completely threaded onto, the spoke end is flush with the nipple head (photo included). My plan is to get some 12 mm DT Swiss brass nipples and substitute with the current ones.
I included a photo of the laced wheel just to be sure I got that correct – am I missing something?
Thanks!
The components:
Hub Shimano FH-MT510 12×142 with 32 holes
Rim DT Swiss R470db 20×622 with 32 holes
Spokes DT Swiss Revolution 288 mm
Nipples “no name” brass with 14 mm length
Did that dt Swiss rim come with nipple washers? I haven’t had my coffee yet but if I recall they spec their rooms to be built with their washers.
That said, even with the washers it sounds like the spokes are merely too long. Without having the components here to measure I couldn’t tell you though.
I’ve built lots of wheels. Sometimes the spoke length calculations are simply off and you have to start over
It’s not that the nipples are too long – the length of a nipple doesn’t change how far into the head it goes. Some nipples do have thread engagement that starts deeper in, such as the DT Squorx type or Alpina Self-Locking type. But I don’t think those will give you as much length as you need.
Referring to the cross-sections at [this website](https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/tech-threadengagement.php), you are reaching “state 1” before you’ve even dished/tensioned and obviously this is preventing you from completing the build. If you could use the deeper-engagement nipples, you might at best, get to “state 2” – still not ideal.
Somewhere between “state 2” and “state 3” is what you want to end up at. Any shorter and the nipple is loaded in tension at its neck (so nipples will frequently break) and any longer and you have minimal room for adjustment.
I’m afraid your short-side spokes are at least 2mm too long.
Did you physically measure the components at hand or did you source these measurements from online world of disinformation?
Nipple length doesn’t change the overall length of the nipple & spoke, it just pushes the area for the spoke wrench in or out so that you can reach it on deeper dish wheels.
Are you sure you used the correct lacing pattern? It looks like a 2 cross in the photo (its a little hard to tell at this angle) and maybe you used the calculator for 3 cross?