the shifting is exactly the same, and it only weighs a few grams more. the benefit of it is the longer cage keeps more tension on the chain in the smaller cogs. its way better when using cassettes bigger than a 28t. ive tested both and currently run a 11-36, 34-50 with the wolftooth roadlink.
on my CX I have a 46/34 and 11-34. ( thanks to your tips here on youtube ) It works well, but I think I would need a longer chain to run 50/34. I think then the short cage would struggle to pull inn the slack if I selected the 34-11 combination. I know that avoid that combo, but it still happens when i ride. But for gravel riding on my cx I am happy with 46/34 and 11-34 and a short cage Tiagra 🙂
All true, but remember that bike will be bang on the min weight 6.8kg, so the extra weight is irrelevant. Yates is a small guy on a small frame – they are probably having to add weight to get his bike to 6.8 kg already.
Pros snap derailleurs all the time. They shift while putting out 400 watts. Maybe the longer cage is more reliable.
You also have to remember a pro bike mechanic, works long hours and services all the bikes every day. They do things in a set way because it saves time. They don't have time to contemplate short cage vs long cage. If shimano says use long cage with a 32 cassette, that's what they're gonna do.
They're not about to lose their job because Nibali snaps another derailleur, and then the bosses find out the mechanic went against Shimano's recommendations, and put a short cage with a 32 cassette. Even if a short cage works fine with a 32, mechanics are blue collar guys that will protect their jobs.
Because Shimano says that the short cage only goes up to a 28 the pro teams can only do that, even if they did know that you can use a 32 with a short cage.
PRO mechanics are a different animal to your typical SHOP mechanic. The PRO guys are only paid to know about PRO bikes so wont know all the great hacks and tips. I know one who doesn't know anything about disc brakes and wheel building because it's not in his job description. Makes sense in a way but you'd expect the best of the best to know everything.
I want to get sram Etap with a 36 cassette so waiting for the long cage. Obviously can't run a 36 with a short cage. Sram officially say etap doesn't work with 32
He'd never use a tripple. I'm going to look into this at my local bike shop a bit more. would be nice to have a 32 on the back without having to buy another derailor
Don't they have a weight limit? some of them even have to add weight to comply so adding a long derailleur in this case is irrelevant . ( my opinion of course)
As you know they have to add weight in strategic places. So maybe that is why but I Highly doubt it. You are definitely correct about the Old School mentality.
Harley, the pulley that shifts the chain is in the same place and shifting is exactly the same with both cages.  EXACTLY. larger cassette cogs do slow down and make shifts less crisp, especially down shifts as it takes longer for the chain to fully disengage the more teeth it has to let go of. If you really felt a difference in shifting between long and short cages, you probably were using a larger cassette with the longer cage, or ate too much sugar and were delirious. seriously, using the longer cage gets you more gears and a quieter drive train because of less chain slap on rough roads. before you argue, put your bike in the stand, switch out derailleurs and see for yourself. there is a reason every pro team uses ultegra long cages with 32 tooth cassettes, or puts ultegra long cages on duraace derailuers. even froomie has one. and the weight difference is less than a few grams.
This is bullshit. He's quite clearly using a 28 tooth, 29 at the most, shimano have already said in the past you can't run a 32t on s standard rear mech. Much more importantly have you ever actually watched Adam Yates going full gas during a tdf mountain top finish? The guy is not a man for the super high cadence that's for sure so why would he use a 32t? Especially when there was no climb in the tdf this year steep enough to require one.Don't trust me, google it and watch for yourself!
As in the particular setup Yates uses 54/36 chainrings, the capacity his rear derailleur has to handle is even 2 teeth larger than for your 50/34, 11-32. Therefore going for a RD-6870-GS should be the right decision – the mechanic surely wouldn't risk a torn off hanger or rubbing chain.
is it not more of chain wrap issue? I run 52-36, ultegra 10 speed short cage derailleur with a 32 cassette, I occasionally get chain slap on the underside of the chain stay if I stop pedalling on a downhill.
with short cage, the chain is not long enough for 53-32 combo on my 56 roubaix. This will also depend on the chain stay length of the frame. If short cage works for you great, but it is not universal that is why shimano put the 28t max limit
I completely agree regarding low gears / high cadence but prefer a triple chain set. I started with XT 48 / 36/ 22 on 9 then 10 speed. But sound it didn't work so well on 11. So now use 130 / 74 pcd 105 and FSA chain sets. I do find a long cage mech necessary as a) the chain is almost straight on big – big, or similarly it's slack in small – small, (which I only use by accident). I also find a 13 top pulley helps. I do Audax up to 100 – 1400K often with 25% climbs.No joke if its the 5th or 6th after 500K. I don't like wearing my (MTB) cleats out walking.
I don't trust Durian Riders mechanical advice. He boasts about keeping his chains on for ages, but in one video he showed how his chainring teeth had all worn to points, but didn't mention that this is a consequence of using a worn chain.
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the shifting is exactly the same, and it only weighs a few grams more. the benefit of it is the longer cage keeps more tension on the chain in the smaller cogs. its way better when using cassettes bigger than a 28t. ive tested both and currently run a 11-36, 34-50 with the wolftooth roadlink.
#WeightWeeny
nice
on my CX I have a 46/34 and 11-34. ( thanks to your tips here on youtube ) It works well, but I think I would need a longer chain to run 50/34. I think then the short cage would struggle to pull inn the slack if I selected the 34-11 combination.
I know that avoid that combo, but it still happens when i ride.
But for gravel riding on my cx I am happy with 46/34 and 11-34 and a short cage Tiagra 🙂
they most likely use the long cage to add weight to reach the 6.8 kg weight requirement
All true, but remember that bike will be bang on the min weight 6.8kg, so the extra weight is irrelevant. Yates is a small guy on a small frame – they are probably having to add weight to get his bike to 6.8 kg already.
Pros snap derailleurs all the time. They shift while putting out 400 watts. Maybe the longer cage is more reliable.
You also have to remember a pro bike mechanic, works long hours and services all the bikes every day. They do things in a set way because it saves time. They don't have time to contemplate short cage vs long cage. If shimano says use long cage with a 32 cassette, that's what they're gonna do.
They're not about to lose their job because Nibali snaps another derailleur, and then the bosses find out the mechanic went against Shimano's recommendations, and put a short cage with a 32 cassette. Even if a short cage works fine with a 32, mechanics are blue collar guys that will protect their jobs.
Dont they have a limit of 6.8kg anyway? So if you saved weight on the long cage you'll have to add weight somewhere else?
Because Shimano says that the short cage only goes up to a 28 the pro teams can only do that, even if they did know that you can use a 32 with a short cage.
PRO mechanics are a different animal to your typical SHOP mechanic. The PRO guys are only paid to know about PRO bikes so wont know all the great hacks and tips. I know one who doesn't know anything about disc brakes and wheel building because it's not in his job description. Makes sense in a way but you'd expect the best of the best to know everything.
I want to get sram Etap with a 36 cassette so waiting for the long cage. Obviously can't run a 36 with a short cage. Sram officially say etap doesn't work with 32
What is a "long cage"? And is a "32 cassette" the teeth number of the biggest ring in the back? What about the other rings with teeth?
They use a long cage because there's less chance of it failing.
The heavier derailleur probably doesn't matter as that bike can probably meet the minimum weight limit with it on
He'd never use a tripple. I'm going to look into this at my local bike shop a bit more. would be nice to have a 32 on the back without having to buy another derailor
okay carb up i get but how many or how much food calories to intake
With the minimum 6.8 kg imposed, if they are concerned with weight it's with it's distribution, not with saving some total grams.
Don't they have a weight limit? some of them even have to add weight to comply so adding a long derailleur in this case is irrelevant . ( my opinion of course)
they trim the number as much as possible to 1) match the lines of the frame and 2) to reduce drag as much as possible…not weight lol
As you know they have to add weight in strategic places. So maybe that is why but I Highly doubt it. You are definitely correct about the Old School mentality.
Harley, the pulley that shifts the chain is in the same place and shifting is exactly the same with both cages.  EXACTLY. larger cassette cogs do slow down and make shifts less crisp, especially down shifts as it takes longer for the chain to fully disengage the more teeth it has to let go of. If you really felt a difference in shifting between long and short cages, you probably were using a larger cassette with the longer cage, or ate too much sugar and were delirious. seriously, using the longer cage gets you more gears and a quieter drive train because of less chain slap on rough roads. before you argue, put your bike in the stand, switch out derailleurs and see for yourself. there is a reason every pro team uses ultegra long cages with 32 tooth cassettes, or puts ultegra long cages on duraace derailuers. even froomie has one. and the weight difference is less than a few grams.
the links you use are rubbish & more pron to snap
what about a ten speed ?
I'm using a short cage shimano 600 and the chain catches on the derailleur. so I'm getting a medium cage. don't know what I'm doing wrong.
This is bullshit. He's quite clearly using a 28 tooth, 29 at the most, shimano have already said in the past you can't run a 32t on s standard rear mech. Much more importantly have you ever actually watched Adam Yates going full gas during a tdf mountain top finish? The guy is not a man for the super high cadence that's for sure so why would he use a 32t? Especially when there was no climb in the tdf this year steep enough to require one.Don't trust me, google it and watch for yourself!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzvVc-FFSY look at this ._.
My shimano zee on my mtb is short as shit, runs good.
As in the particular setup Yates uses 54/36 chainrings, the capacity his rear derailleur has to handle is even 2 teeth larger than for your 50/34, 11-32. Therefore going for a RD-6870-GS should be the right decision – the mechanic surely wouldn't risk a torn off hanger or rubbing chain.
is it not more of chain wrap issue? I run 52-36, ultegra 10 speed short cage derailleur with a 32 cassette, I occasionally get chain slap on the underside of the chain stay if I stop pedalling on a downhill.
maybe they are leaving the option there to run a 36t cassette ?
heyyyy i use squirt lube tooooooo
its fucken lit
with short cage, the chain is not long enough for 53-32 combo on my 56 roubaix. This will also depend on the chain stay length of the frame. If short cage works for you great, but it is not universal that is why shimano put the 28t max limit
Will these work with a speed rear mech aswell? thanks
I completely agree regarding low gears / high cadence but prefer a triple chain set. I started with XT 48 / 36/ 22 on 9 then 10 speed. But sound it didn't work so well on 11. So now use 130 / 74 pcd 105 and FSA chain sets. I do find a long cage mech necessary as a) the chain is almost straight on big – big, or similarly it's slack in small – small, (which I only use by accident).
I also find a 13 top pulley helps. I do Audax up to 100 – 1400K often with 25% climbs.No joke if its the 5th or 6th after 500K. I don't like wearing my (MTB) cleats out walking.
I don't trust Durian Riders mechanical advice. He boasts about keeping his chains on for ages, but in one video he showed how his chainring teeth had all worn to points, but didn't mention that this is a consequence of using a worn chain.