Can Philipsen Threaten Girmay’s Green? | Tour de France 2024 Stage 16 | Lanterne Rouge x JOIN

In this episode Patrick Broe and Benji Naesen recap the 16th stage of the 2024 Tour de France.

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recycling podcast hope you had a nice second rest day I certainly did actually what did you do Benji I got a haircut I had to it was I looked like I I was living I don’t know living the bad life they do a beard trim as well yeah they well I did it myself then I realized I [ __ ] it up so then they did it I don’t have to shave I shave like once a week um yeah let’s talk about that I was at your house and I asked you whether I could use your your shaving machine and you were like I don’t even have one shaving machine I I’m lucky I can use like a big two blade razor like a disposable one EUR Razer with just water and hand soap bang bang bang 2 minutes no shaving irritation um I don’t know I’m just blessed I guess but yeah I can’t grow a beard um too busy podcasting uh today’s stage is the could have been a big crosswind stage we’ve had I would say this Twitter France it’s it’s been great filled with action it’s actually been quite calm for the most part I think in terms except for the gravel stage like the weather’s not played ball with some of these stages that the organizers might have hoped for and today was another one so the first one was stage to Amon montron no not no crosswind today was another one where if if it gets to 20 25 kph I think it’s the Mistral Wind uh we’re in south west or Southeast France you can really get some splits is very open pancake flat Sprint stage but around more here but it didn’t happen I saw on the forecast 12 kph and I was like the directors it’s week three the Riders are not going to listen to them anymore if they tell them for 6 hours to sit at the front for a live breeze so uh yeah there’s an intermediate Sprint at the end of a little 7K 3% climb one cap 4 and uh 190k and nothingness otherwise exactly nothing happened during the stage I I I’ll keep simple throughout the stage I saw that there was no Breakaway I decided to jump on the bike and do an hour and a half endurance ride and after that I came back I watched an intermediate Sprint an intermediate Sprint that was interesting Anon Mar doing a lead out and then binam and philipson both having a [ __ ] position but eventually from that Sprint we had philipson taking second place off card and ver and Bam fourth so philson taking a few points extra over bam at intermediate Sprint and then I saw gushin from total energy riding off and then I was like okay I’m going to I’m going to edit the video or something and then I came back in the last 20k that’s my day and so what we’re seeing now which we haven’t really seen in other intermediate Sprints is alerson using multiple Riders to Sprint to try and put positions between philipson and bie so they basically all Sprint in the wheel of philipson to try and then create a higher Delta it’s it’s like the same thing Anthony Mar was doing but for the opposite effect yeah what they Mar used Tyson as a sweeper like you say to try and beat uh philipson behind and that’s how bam gained more points at an intermediate earlier in week one or week two and now it’s alason doing the same but the other way around to reduce the advantage that binam has so they must still believe that it is on the cars and everything can happen and we might see it at the end of this stage that might impact the classification seriously but anyway we’re heading to the last 20K but how’s your training going it’s going well I did a join endurance ride in the morning watch some war zone yeah like I’m I’m getting better as I mature at pacing myself with like the uh with just not I don’t I won’t sit there and watch who was pacing on the front San diler pacing behind a non-existent breakway for 3 hours I’ve grown up um also we should make a note I know we’ve gone in in a strange order but there was uh there was some resting news uh Josh Ty got extended by anyos but relevant to the tot of France um no spicy quotes really unfortunately yonas POG and Remco are all being nice about each other which is a bit of a shame uh and saying the right things unlike last rest day which was more exciting and Adam yak and Tim Wells was reported by as a Spanish press that Adam Y and Tim Wells were not allowed on the UAE team bus uh not because they had a big night the night before but presumably they’re also brought to the stage on their own or separate from the team we presume that is for covid isolation is the only explanation for that because I would say that Adam has done a pretty good job so far yeah but there was also an article on Marka saying the same thing about Bernal but then and he looked R last week inos inos actually went out or the communication manager posted on Twitter that that is actually not true about bral so now I’m also like is the adom Wells news yeah but inos have communicated when their riters have had Co or not and continues and UA don’t really communicate so and he has was right about AO yes they’re pretty dialed into the hispanophone or Italian teams so uh Adam Yates I mean I then went back and looked at Plateau de Bay and he finished 12 seconds ahead of Santi now he might have just been chilling I don’t think so because he is in the top 10 on GC and it’s also a Strategic Benefit as we saw last week uh when he got in that Breakaway and everyone Shi their pants for him to keep they did for him to keep his good GC position so if that’s the legs normally he’s way better than 12 seconds ahead of Santi he’s ahead of Lander in fourth on that stage so just something to watch uh unfortunately CO’s throughout the Pelon I think even the journalists have been told to put masks back on uh Anders was wearing it in interview Stevens was wearing it in interviews so I think also ASO is introduced now some more but like it’s it’s a bit late now it’s a bit late now yeah it’s there it’s it’s everywhere so pogy he had it before the race hopefully that helps him not get it um but yeah that I just thought I’d provide that sort of rest day news uh yeah as Benji said ginard goes in the break to sort of satisfy at least some sponsor coverage contivity my friend someone has to get it yeah and it’s probably smarter to be honest you got 90k to go instead of 170 you do an hour and a half out there you get competitivity for for an hour and a half’s work and you get to go on the podium of the torron it’s like it’s it’s a big thing for a rider like that and also next to that it’s also probably a thing for total energy as well like I saw don’t know who posted it or who said it but I think it was an ARA uh individual that said um yeah okay Breakaway Breakaway Adventures there they’re good for promotion but our vocal land victory in week one was so much more had so much more impact but it’s like that’s true that is true it’s true but why not both exactly it’s like you know they’re on different days and H dear collected a beautiful 18th today so um Perfection yeah it unfortunately for better or worse I I don’t know what the solution is the solution is that normally there there’s a 50% chance of heavy Crosswinds today in which case we don’t even have this discussion but I’ve never I can never recall some Twitter France Sprints Benji with literally nobody going in the Breakaway um especially in week three and I also understand I’m not saying they should make this a hilly stage because also this is the last stage for the sprinters uh so I also think it’s fair that this was a pure Sprint stage but I don’t know what it is because yeah the the intergo competition also is not not the solution yep that is true but I got to bring up uh one of the controversial tweets of our expert producer Luke K he said on Twitter at this rate Sprint stage will be banned from the tour in 2020 probably in a sarcastic way he said that I replace by 300 km Mountain stages to build some fatigue because 200 km Mountain stages is no longer sufficient for that but how can you incentivize Sprint stages to be more interesting and do you also think after seeing two days ago that we’ll see more extreme mountain stages to to look for the limits of these Riders I think ASO has been gradually bringing them back in cuz I feel like like wigan’s year and the sky years um yeah there were some pretty soft Mountain stages in those years and I think there like gral was a pretty raging success from a audience interest perspective so I think they’re going to keep making them harder um longer harder maybe a two maybe like a jro I mean is the twit France the new Jiro because the jro yeah it’s week three was soft this year that’s for sure um I don’t know is the solution to put in more category 4S is it to like if we look at stage uh 13 no not 13 12 so stage 13 started with a lot of hills and it was still a bunch Sprint no one really jumped it’s like well cuz I was about to say well you need to make some hills where people can jump well there were there were Hills on stage 12 um and no one went in the breakway or or at least it didn’t form and then also I can understand that it’s you know people complaining about vismer and UA I also get it like but vismer like it’s the Pyrenees the first two big mountain stages and you don’t expect the two heavyweight teams to go for it like GC Riders are allowed to go for GC stages if they so desire and if you’re a breakway rider and you’re impacted by that well go in the break on more stages than just the stages that are likely going to go to towards the GC Riders in the first place like sorry but this tourron started with two Breakaway victories and a lot of teams weren’t there stage one got one by a breakaway yeah stage two Was Won by a breakaway oh yeah stop complaining about oh there’s not many Breakaway te Breakaway stages because GC teams go for it UA could have faced the first two stag would have had zero then so ju you’re just a good enough yeah I mean I’m inclined to agree with you Benji or not good enough or focused on focused on on one way of winning which ja is you know today they want to win with Gran and he came 19th and they paced all day so it’s like but I guess he won the stage already but anyway uh nothing happened as warrant this discussion 30k to go we see the GC team start to come to the front Vima want to be on the left uh pagat decides today I think wisely with a bit of a headwind on the big roads in the running he decides to sit at the back of the Pelt on basically with three meters in front of him with Neil pollet to his right and with um COV maybe to his left and to just leave breaking distance and not fight and I don’t and Remco did much of the same thing it’s what RIT should have done all all the last two years three years Benji like RIT is a crasher he’s a crasher in The Hectic RIT should look at what POG did today except for the last five case r should look what he did that’s what he should do if he if RIT had lost 30 seconds in a split one day because of it it’s still better than crashing out of the race so and that doesn’t happen ever it never happens and looking at the gaps in GC right now between the Riders those 30 seconds are less likely to make a difference than actually making a difference so I don’t know if that makes sense but I’d say they’re less likely to make a difference than not there’s huge gaps it’s it’s like what’s the worst thing that can happen okay yeah you’re you’re stuck behind the split I need to do an allout effort towards the line and you’re not even going to lose 30 seconds look at the size of these we’re on the highway here today like you’re not going to get caught behind um so pach I think doing probably a sensible thing to reduce his risk variance of losing yellow through a crash pardon except the last 5K except then it starts to get more hectic 10ks to go roundabout roundabout roundabouts and then sixks to go Pacha shoots up the left side underneath some Sprint trains and suddenly wants to get in the mix through the the roundabouts and I was like oh that’s but it doesn’t matter because he’s he he reads the bunch so well just was a changed up listen that was the only interest in the stage is watching where pach was in the bunch and and the Lead Out start early ja with Luke durbridge with fourks to go Uno X getting into position on the left hand side Alon are going to come late there’s a chicane uh with 1.5 case to go through a roundabout and then where it Narrows and then the final there’s another chicane at like 400 to 350 uh so that don’t you can afford in the last 2ks to be on the front early in fact at 2ks to go you really with your lead outs need to be in the front 10 positions and some lead outs burnt through too early and then two is there anything else Benji that you saw from five to 2K to go not really at first the alpon train was kind of squeezed out but then they came back towards the the last two kilometers and it was truly unx that was like controlling the last four km at the front the entire last 4 km and every now and then a new unox r would like pop up from from in the middle of the pelaton Suddenly at the front so they had it under control at this point but I think you mentioned it was it yesterday in the preview of this stage are they at the front too early because they’ve been at the front too early a few times in the story of France uh this time not really actually unex at 2K to go I say do a better job than alerson almost like they have their lineup is Magnus Court Rasmus tiller abrah hamson VAR gold Kristoff that’s their lineup 2 Cas to go very strong alberon got VES uh Rickard or s c don’t know who know no C dnf another guy who gets blown off the wheel and then Vanderpool philipson so Uno got more numbers they keep them caught basically keeps alberon out through this sweeping right hand through the roundabout beanie is deep he’s is it Robie H apologies Robie bie is deep or I don’t know exactly where he is but he’s involved in a crash with about 1.6 K to go and yeah unox had that front position through that shicane I think Benny either got put into like he start to move up on those barriers hit the foot of it crashed pretty hard like he he didn’t just get straight back up he hit his head hard and then but I’ll we’ll talk about more about him in a second 1.3k to go we still see now alberon getting in the mixture of the unox train Kristoff and varus gold get not chopped out of it but they’re detached now so alberon have split through the middle they’ve gone through the middle of V God the last man and abrahamson second last man and it’s I don’t maybe v no Robbie H Robbie H sorry Robie H Robbie H splits them this unox kept trying to put him on the barriers yeah and he goes through vandero then takes abrahamson’s wheel off uh tiller or no no just he just takes it off off who never had it and then we see with about 1.1k to go pace is getting the draft off tiller he’s not really moved he’s not putting abrahamson in the barriers or anything and abrahamson just starts headbutting him because he wants tiller’s wheel which is completely pointless because tiller was literally looking to pull off like abrahamson cost himself positions first of all was finished and abrahamson cost himself momentum by just headbutting a guy to keep the wheel of a guy who had pulled off abrahamson then goes in front of H and now you have the lineup of and and this cannot move we go through like two chicanes no one can move up at this point abrahamson Pace Vanderpool philipson and the real unox guys V skull and Kristoff are on almost a gap cuz abrahamson sending it at 600s to go if he looks back he he should pull off immediately the other guys are not in his wheel he can see alerson jerseys when he looks under in his wheel and he basically delivers the alerson train in the best position position and freshest position they’ve been all to to France and basically it meant that VAR gold could not move Chris off up and then when you see vandol looking basically fresh seated with 350 to go getting the elbow flick he’s going to bring Jasper philipson to 175 no problem and philipson actually jumps a bit earlier at 200 to go and with a clean run it like that no one can beat him philipsson wins the stage easily ahead of Phil bouse who followed the wheels quite well of alberon then Kristoff third s at Fourth van fifth who was too deep aan six Gard seventh V gold as you can tell he he never really got to do his lead out eighth Gibbons ninth Danny van Popple 10th on Red Bull Boran girl so about that Sprints you spoke about it already but I think first of all three victories for philipson that equals the amount of Victories he has and the amount of Victories that bam has but but also importantly when it comes to that that means he gets 50 points at the finish line here while binam because his crash gets zero points and let’s be honest about it before the stage started the Gap was uh was already pretty huge was around 100 points but after this stage the Gap is around 32 points in the green jury classification we’ve got B in first on 376 points yper Phillipson on 344 the rest is kind of fighting for UCI points behind them so Kar t the Lee lost a position to T today is now Fifth and to be honest that 32 points gap between bam and philipson it’s still a solid Gap because now it has to be fought between intermediate Sprints and maybe stage 18 a breakaway stage but it’s still much less comfortable for bam than it was a day ago that’s for certain and most importantly let’s hope he’s okay from the crash in the first place yeah that’s the bigz like theoretically bie still should be okay in that yeah if he if he has good legs or he’s not injured like if we look to tomorrow’s stage the intermediate Sprint is unfortunately for him not after any categorized climbs it’s after 115 K of of false light uphill but if he just follows philipson into the Breakaway then he’ll take enough points that it it won’t matter and the same goes for stage 18 and then then the competition’s already over because the rest are in in brutal stages even 18’s quite hard so it basically if he didn’t crash even if he didn’t get any points today he was still going to win the problem is for him is how hurt he is so yeah like obviously no one wants to see philipsson win it or especially not like this or maybe his mother does but you know everyone wants bie to every neutral obviously wants bie to win over philipsson and and let’s be clear that’s that’s not because of philipson or binam it’s more because of he was in the lead and because of a crash he’s not in the lead as much anymore but then again I’ll saying it because I don’t like philipson but yes yes what you said but you could also say that philipsson also lost a 50 points chance on the day that he was crashed or hindered by the crash on what was it stage three didn’t he get relegated yeah that’s another time oh multiple events happening stage three the one where cavage was also stopped by the by the crash and Stage six yeah one of them don’t know which one it was but hey if he didn’t get relegated he’d basically be leveled now wouldn’t he yeah correct so wow it’s really tight 32 points and yeah it’s if beanie can just make it to those intermediates CU they they’re worth 20 points each he’s just got to make it to the intermediates and take some points and and then he will still win it but that’s easier said than done anyway dad battle is on I’m very curious to see how that ends for the sake of the how the race is gone I’d be very much okay with bie winning as well because well philipson won it last year so would be nice for it to be another Rider I like uh J’s like that switching hands but also I want to take us back to the Sprint and talk about the Sprint a little more you already spoke about unox a little bit like yes the unox lead out I think it was Abramson in my opinion also made a mistake by keeping the lead out at the front for too long he should have just stopped the lead out and forced alvison in the in the wind earlier because that benefits Kristoff more than doing your lead out that basically helps Alison but about that headbutt by Abrahams and for a second in the past we’ve had numerous headbutts in in this Sport and to my memory like a Rena one that led to a disqualification it’s often said that a headbutt during a Sprint leads to a disqualification but the rules don’t necessarily say that it must be a disqualification uh Luke looked it up before uh we started this uh this podcast today and I think it was 500 Swiss frank plus a 25% penalty on b or km classification but the thing is that doesn’t hurt him yes he was in km for a bit but it’s not like he’s winning that classification yes maybe he loses some UCI points as a consequence of losing some points there but then I look at at points classification abrahamson doesn’t care about that either this this seems like one of those occasions where a sprinter is doing something no Al out is doing something to benefit his Sprinter it didn’t really help his Sprinter at all but he was doing it for that reason and he will not get penalized outside of Swiss frank if he doesn’t get disqualified yeah I think he’ll probably I think it’s pretty obvious I think he will get maybe the fine I don’t see him getting thrown out of the race for it because it was only like only one maybe UCI points penalty might arrive cuz Fels had that yeah and that would hurt you know X they they need all the points they can get so that is something they don’t want to lose and he’s one of their top scorers he’s got over I think is their top scorer maybe he’s got over a th000 UCI points so uh probably expect to see that in the communicate later today there were it seems there were splits because of the crash but everyone I guess we put on the same time I think so uh I would say and so yeah nothing it’s it’s uh it just goes to show the tour isn’t over till it’s over and and particularly for the green jersey battle it looked mathematically basically over but now it’s it’s all back on again um and the abon team is looking pretty good so tomorrow stage 178 km long from s Chateau to Super Devi this is uh supposed to be a nailed on Breakaway stage it is and the intermediate Sprint as I said is after 115 K with false flight uphill so uh fortunately or unfortunately for the break there is no C there’s no climbs at the start to help that break form and then we go through Gap and then we do the cold byard 7K 7% Category 2 short descent Little Valley and then the cuu noer which is 7.6k 8% so 20 minute climb 22-minute climb another short descent and then 4K is 5.7% uphill finish I think this is where Benji if UA pace for the stage win mhm the other teams will crack the shits because normally like I like I said on the weekend that’s it’s different when you’re going for time yeah when you’re going for time to make a difference in GC that’s different but they got he’s got three mins he’s got three stage wins he’s probably going to win stage two of the last three stages pater here is where the other teams I think will crack this I mean what there’s nothing I can do but what do you think or or you think UA Let them fight it out tomorrow it is hot o i with two mountain stages H stage 18 is a breakaway stage in my opinion for certain butet so stage 17 is maybe a half question mark but I’d argue that that is more of a breakaway stage than than today for certain because there were too many Sprinter teams that were too eager to to try and get a sprint out of today but super devil Lis no on paper You’ say this is a pachar finish for sure yeah can win easily yeah but reality is every single mountain is or pure finish is a pogacha finish these days there’s no differential there anymore so they can kind of choose and and and pick what they want to control in the next uh four days I would say they could control tomorrow but I don’t necessarily see the urgency to do that it might be better to save the team and and just control one of 19 or or 20 but then again you also know that on stage 19 for example you’ve got three major climbs including the ceiling of the tour which is chin lonet on stage 20 you’ve got four major climbs yes Vaga is looking very unlikely to win the torrons right now but I still believe that Vima will try some [ __ ] to try and explode the rise on those two races to try and see whether they can make something happen and if they try that then it’s also going to be visma pacing on that specific stage so I don’t know it’s uh it’s a dilemma I would go with Breakaway for tomorrow also personally because I prefer to see that scenario happening and I oo is it like a lascano stage is it more a b he stage certainly a lascano and Healey stage yeah it’s still it’s still an 8% 22-minute climb before the dev L like it’s and there’s also uh I believe a I thought there was a bonus gate on top of noer maybe I’m wrong but um I thought those was extra bonies I guess I’m wrong yeah also for K I guess a cat 2 cat one and a cat 3 is also up for grabs to get some points uh so I also think don’t complain to UAE if you can’t get a break formed with a and getting a good Gap going in 3 hours before the cold byard like UAE I think what they’ll do is they will not participate in break formation they will let the teams cannibalize each other on the flat hope that continues continues continues Y and then if it’s a matter of Neil’s pollet pulling for 1 hour before bayad to keep it at 3 minutes they’ll see how they feel so it’s on the Breakaway teams to actually make it happen in the first hour um because do that yeah before it the Tipping Point arrives of UAE may be becoming interested in the stage throughout the stage itself well then then it was on the on the breakway for not forming earlier as well as long as U is not actively controlling the breakway to make sure there’s like a four-man group up the road I um I think it’s likely that they should be able to create that Gap to be honest but like you said but then there’s the other fight now there’s going to be a fight between in and Alon tomorrow yeah there’s GNA the is is like towards by yeah but Philipson’s going to try to jump in the break yeah and I think I think they will just both act by going in the Breakaway no but if bie is a bit hurt yeah then Anto marhe might just start closing down controlling the entire State yes that will heard b as well in the pellaton if he’s HT he’s heard it yeah it’s still flat though like it’s going to be easier than trying to get in the break with the jumping so there you will see tomorrow a lot of uh yeah alberon against Anto marhe for that intermediate Sprint um so yeah but I still think I do agree it’s going to be a breakaway I’m going to go with Javier Romo to win ma star from the break you went you like L Caro but he was very very good on stage 11 I think stage 11 is quite comparable to this and uh yeah Romo finished 14th with the GC boys of course Ben Hy can win I’d love to see Steph crust give it a go uh from the break he’s got a good chance uh and uh reason yeah the reason I’m picking loano is because I believe if they’re both in the breakway Roman and loano yeah he will pick lascano over that’s kind tactically in breaks not so good actually yeah I agree um oh and cooperate when necessary in moments he tries to be clever but it ends up hurting like when when you’re the strongest there’s no use trying to be clever you should just contribute um to make it function cohesively also have a look at Jordan jagat on total energy I like them to be in the break tomorrow jat he was on a kovsky inos got to get something out of this race yat was on a Cony team non at atlanti last year he came 14th in flesh second in tajura which was an uphill finish behind godu uh he actually is very very good for these climbs so and you ruin his name by the way I’m pretty sure jig Jordan Jord Jordan Jag he’s got a good chance to top five tomorrow Lantern roach yeah who have you got to win well I don’t [ __ ] know man I’m going for losano I guess I’m going through this list and I see losano loano loano as options Aron Buu is another option but he might have to work for losano as well I remember good finish for him odd Christian ning also in good shape they’ll probably go for johanneson uh hopefully it’s a breakaway stage just to mix it up a little bit and uh otherwise there’s nothing too much to report from the tour the heat has come 30° for the rest of the week but not 35 36 more like low 30s but still uh in Bruin on stage 19 for example at 400 600 M 32 degrees is quite warm uh so that’s changing things up a bit but I’m thinking tuno X I’m also thinking you’ve got on one end AR hamson but that one might lead more towards stage 18 then johanis does have the punch for stage 17 though Y and uh and mag Magnus caught even yeah g is too close in GC that’s what I’m interested to see 15 minutes I’m not sure that but other teams will start riding wait where’s G on GC a actually Adam yat is the one ahead of him U won’t start riding for to keep G behind Adam yat he G should be allowed in the break I think so so cuz Quick Step will they start riding cuz Lando’s GC is in trouble no he’s no and it’s 5 minutes and Landa should also put more time into him on the weekend yeah so he’s got a this a good opportunity for Derek G he’s got to get in there with B hul helping him okay that’s all from us today hope you enjoyed the recap of stage 16 we’ll see you with recap of 17 tomorrow ciao