O Centro Soberania e Clima realizará, em 26 de abril, às 10h, a terceira parte do Ciclo de Webinars “Clima, Sustentabilidade e Defesa”, com o tema “Estado, Indústria de Defesa e Transição Energética”.
Esse Ciclo de Webinars é promovido em parceria com o Núcleo de Capacitação em Economia de Defesa e Desenvolvimento de Força (NCAD) da Escola Superior de Defesa (ESD), o Projeto NETZMIL, apoiado pela Vice-Reitoria da Loughborough University (Reino Unido), e pela Associação Brasileira das Indústrias e Materiais de Defesa (ABIMDE).
O objetivo do Ciclo é debater os desafios e as oportunidades que a agenda das mudanças climáticas traz para a segurança e defesa nacionais, compreendendo desde as visões atuais com base nas iniciativas governamentais em andamento, até análises prospectivas referentes às tecnologias empregadas no enfrentamento e na mitigação dos efeitos impostos por essas mudanças.
Neste sentido, alguns dos tópicos a serem discutidos incluem os potenciais cenários e desafios para as operações militares no contexto de descarbonização, os desafios de implementação da agenda nos âmbitos político e econômico, desafios e oportunidades de inovação tecnológica e a atuação da indústria de defesa, reflexos desta agenda nas relações entre a defesa e a sociedade civil, entre outros. O Ciclo está sendo realizado conforme a seguinte programação:
16 de novembro/2023: Webinar – Mudanças Climáticas e Defesa Nacional
1 de Março/2024: Webinar – Inovações Sustentáveis e Economia de Defesa
26 de abril/2024: Webinar – Estado, Indústria de Defesa e Transição Energética
24 de maio/2024: Webinar – Defesa e Novas Tecnologias Sustentáveis: o Caso do Combustível Sustentável de Aviação (SAF)
Neste terceiro webinar, intitulado “Estado, Indústria de Defesa e Transição Energética”, pretendemos discutir os desafios da transição energética do ponto de vista do estado e da indústria de defesa, abordando particularmente tópicos relacionados à segurança energética, tecnologia, pesquisa e desenvolvimento, bem como os investimentos em curso para esses fins, incluindo oportunidades e iniciativas que tenham impacto significativo para ambos os países, como o potencial dos minerais críticos. Também será discutido como esses e outros tópicos associados se desdobram e afetam a descarbonização e seu impacto nas mudanças climáticas.
Mais especificamente, este webinar buscará responder às seguintes perguntas:
Como os setores público e privado podem colaborar para impulsionar a adoção de fontes de energia limpas e sustentáveis, ao mesmo tempo em que garantem a segurança nacional?
Quais são as principais oportunidades e os maiores desafios enfrentados pela Indústria de Defesa ao adaptar-se às demandas da transição energética e como o Estado pode apoiar esses esforços?
De que maneira a pesquisa e o desenvolvimento (P&D) em tecnologias energéticas avançadas dentro do setor de defesa podem contribuir para a inovação em outros setores da economia, promovendo uma transição energética mais ampla e sustentável?
Essas e outras questões serão debatidas pelos seguintes especialistas de diferentes setores:
– Victoria Doherty, Chefe de Engajamento com o Consumidor: de Eletrificação e Sustentabilidade (QinetiQ, Reino Unido)
– Roberto Gallo, Presidente da Associação Brasileira das Indústrias de Defesa e Segurança (ABIMDE)
– Valmir Dias, Energy Policy Officer na Embaixada Britânica no Brasil
– Prof. Dr. Peterson Ferreira da Silva, Professor da Escola Superior de Defesa (ESD)
so hello everyone, welcome to the third part of the climate, sustainability and defense webinar cycle, so today’s theme is the state, defense industry and energy transition, my name is Peterson, I’m a professor at the ESD higher school of defense and also at the university of the Air Force at nif guys, the cycle of webinars you are watching is the third in the series, okay, it’s not a series but it’s the third in the series And then this cycle is carried out by suban and clima in partnership with the economics training center of defense and force development ncad of the higher defense school and also in partnership with the nets project supported by the vice-rectorate of Love BR University in the United Kingdom and this cycle is also supported by the Brazilian Association of defense and security materials industries bind that today we have a representative here who is the president of bind participating with us Guys, the objective of this cycle is the cycle in general is to debate the challenges and opportunities that the climate change agenda brings to national security and defense so both for national defense, preparation and use of military power but also for national security as a whole, it is broadly understood as the security not only of the state but also of the state of society of individuals are involving Public Security Civil Defense Ok area of intelligence and also the area mainly of personal National Defense for those who just discovered it only in the third chapter of this cycle I make the recommendation to access the sovereignty and climate channel here and then you will have access to both the first climate change and national defense webinar held in November 16th our second webinar sustainable innovations and defense economy held on the 1st of March and now you too, after finishing here in the morning, this third webinar will be here on YouTube too and I’m already advertising for the 24th May Put it on your calendar May 24th The fourth and final webinar of this cycle, which is defense and new sustainable technologies, the case of sustainable personal aviation fuel Much more specifically in this webinar, in this third webinar, we will try to broadly answer three questions, okay? three questions first how can the public and private sectors collaborate to boost the adoption of clean and sustainable energy sources while ensuring national security the second question is what are the main opportunities and biggest challenges faced by the defense industry when adapting to the demands of the energy transition and how the state can support these efforts and finally how research and development in advanced energy technologies within the defense sector can contribute to innovation in other sectors of the economy promoting a more energetic transition Broad and sustainable so to try to address these three big questions today we have three exhibitors The first is Victória doert is head of customer engagement in the area of electrification and sustainability at the central Technology office of the British company Kinetic the second exhibitor is Roberto galo he is CEO of the Brazilian company cryptus and is currently President of the Brazilian Association of Defense and Security Materials Industries bind he has a PhD in Computer Science from Unicamp and has experience in the area of science and computing with an emphasis on systems architectures of computing and our last and not least important exhibitor is Valmir dias is a climate and energy professional with a focus on government relations and Low Carbon transition and currently works as an energy policy advisor in the UK government So how will this work Initial part This first part of our webinar I will ask a specific question to each of the three exhibitors and then each of them will have around 10 minutes to give a provocative speech a broader response And then the second part of the webinar We’re going to have a semi-structured debate, okay, guys, so for our first speaker, Vitória, I ask the following question, okay, Vitória, could you share your opinions on the challenges related to the energy transition and the current status of the energy industry’s efforts? Defense of the United Kingdom to provide solutions in the fields of sustainability and energy transition could also give a quick overview of the aspects that support and hinder this transition considering the relationship between government and defense industry In this context then there is the first question and for our first speaker so Vitória the floor is all yours Thank you peton thank toin this Topic with others uh and with others from different perspectives different industries and different countries as well I’m very much Talking from a uk Perspective I work for an International Company headquartered in the UK but I don’t know Brazil particularly well so I’m really keen to learn from the discussion about what is common and What is different in the challenges the opportunities And and the ways of working that are going to Help US succeed uh in reducing our emissions in Building resilience climate change Across both mitigation and adaptation so Yes thank you for having me uh youve you’ve done a bit Of An introduction I Lead in the Chief technology Office on sustainability And electrification and a For Those who’ve not come Across Kinetic before It’s an organization of about 8,000 scientists and engineers we work for customers For Whom a mistake Might result in al of Life or L of valuable assets typically in Defense and Security spaces and so they need that scientific evidence-based approach to what Solutions Technologies or ways of working are going to be effective in the hazardous and Critical environments that they’re working in so that’s the that’s the Perspective that I’m speaking from and I think if we start out talking about Defense and Security and sustainability the Main Place I would start is by saying that This is not New for many years Defense has looked at environmental protection one and recognized the importance of minimizing harm but What we’ve seen Over the last two three years there a new level of strategic importance and recognition that perhaps where we Might previously have said Here’s the plan now minimizes the negative Impact Now We’re stepping up a level and saying well Maybe we need to change the plan because we understand that the Contex in which We ‘re operating is different and for anyone Who hasn’t seen the climate warming Stripes visual diagram that Reading University Reading University in the uk [ __ ] Together I would highly recommend having a look at those they show the Average Global temperature from 1860 to Just a few years ago and it gives a really powerful visual impression uh and particularly when I talk about it I say look it no longer needs a climate scientist to tell US that something is changing and so part of uh what I think we’ve seen in the UK Defense Industry recently is a shift from a Focus on We need to mitigate climate change and reduce emissions through to an actually the context in which We’re operating is changing the environment is changing the Energy Systems are going through a transition Supply Chains are becoming more fragile and so We need to understand How the threats and opportunities around US are changing my Notes have All disappeared which is not funny so I’m just going to talk and uh we’ll see where we go uh so so I wanted to talk about that Change in context in which We’re operating the climate Stripes are massively impactful um then Where do we go so annoying my Notes disappeared so um then then we talk about Okay So what’s changing We need to work together so Part of your question was about what’s the state of uk Industry in What We need to do here um and we’ve got innovators Across large companies Across small companies smes startups academia Where there are innovators with Solutions that each solve Part of the Puzzle and so The Great challenge that Faces US nationally and internationally is to work out how to move Together so that things can be and it won’t be Perfect will it but seamless wherever it can be se and um I’m thinking of it a little bit like Where there are parts of the world Who have skipped a landline Telephone and Gone Straight to mobile phones well what’s the equivalent in the Energy Space how can we build in resilience by taking advantage of the new Technologies and Solutions that exist so that demands collaboration and if I think about the challenges you asked about the enablers and the challenges the challenges that Private Company is Face You’ve Got drivers from shareholders Who are asking For Change You’ve Got drivers from employees Who expect their organizations to be conscious of sustainability uh and You’ve Got legal drivers to to uh talk about the emissions reduction plans and the sustainability governance so that’s driving Change um and alongside it You’ve Got this recognition that climate change brings New threats and new opportunities if we compare that to what governments are facing there are equivalent Across every every stream of What I’ve described so from a military Perspective our Defense organizations need to recruit and most New recruits are looking at the values of their employers including How they interact with people and Planet and respect people and Planet in How they go about their Business day today not just as a nice to have in the background but as a core Part of decision making and that comes even more to the when We’re looking operation capability so we know that Defense organizations want to be able to operate anywhere in the World at reaching a in a friendly circumstance to be able to move around the world and be Welcome now that requires moving alongside commercial Industry to have technology that means for example You’re Not going to have a great Carrier operating on fuel with Nasty fumes Pumping out where they Might not be Welcome in a host and already seeing some of those Changes in the maritime environment um so we’ve got people Who need to recruit we’ve got demands in terms of reporting from those in governance operational roles and we also Got That imperative of can you do what you need to do so there’s this great demand on uh Across government organizations Private sector organizations and then into innovators whether they’ re in academia or startups or Another context to work together on a common approach and there’s absolutely a need here for International agreement on How do we Create that common approach there’s also some Tang knowledge that we can gather and learn and date in a meaningful way from Where we’ve had deployments in very Hot or very cold environments to understand what does it mean to operate In That environment short time or for an extended time and how can we Understand The Impact on the wider Systems if that were true for the rest of the organization or the rest of the Fleet whatever the context that you’re talking about is one the same true of more of less predictable weather when dealing with hazardous and unpredictable weather events What happens if they Happen more frequently or with less predictability which Takes me Into A Skills question there’s absolutely a for collaboration between government and state organizations and particularly academia here to look at what are the Core Skills that enable Faster more effective Energy transition so that We’re plugging in now the education that’s needed and I think that’s true Across The Science and technology areas novel materials that reduce reliance on scarce materials make it easier to design in for circularity so that you can extract Core components and we use them one through to Engineering Skills we know that if we look Over the last 30 Years at pattern applications There is an increasing Trend towards combinatorial patents that bring Together expertise from multiple Solutions or sectors or domains the same as true in the sustainability Space There is a massive demand for cross-sector innovation there’s a need to make use of digital so when We’re looking at testing And evaluating and verifying the performance of Defense Technologies how can we make use of modeling simulation and digital techniques to be able to explore in greater depth What happens in a variety of climate scenarios looking at Logistics Chains looking at Being able to scavenge Power at reach in a distributed fashion rather than using a traditional Logistics convoy Going backwards And forwards and so I come back to that need to demonstrate coherence in predictions of What are the climate Science implications specifically for Defense and Security and how can we gracefully develop different elements of the system that are moving at different paces Because Of course they’ll move at different paces and allow them to interconnect between different nations Systems different nations connectors Down to literally which plug is going to plug into which plug and use common terminology and a common approach to modular interconnectivity so that we can adopt New Technologies as they emerge um so thank you for your question if I go back to Where Are we on the Energy transition uh there Is Strong ambition There is great Progress to start with but There is absolutely still a Mountain to Climb and a Huge role for collaboration between governments large organizations academia and innovators wherever they May sit hopefully that’s Given Thank you Vitória for what I saw Vitória don’t worry, you don’t need any notes, you didn’t just talk very well in an objective way, right, I was even jealous there and over time, so don’t worry, even if you don’t need notes in any way, so now that Vitória took it, it raised the level of difficulty Roberto Galo, good luck to you who will speak after her, ok And then I’ll put forward your question, ok, for Roberto Galo, we have separated the following introductory question What is abend’s perspective in relation to decarbonization and the energy transition and how would the industry see the role of the state in relation to this process Furthermore What role has the Brazilian defense industry been playing in terms of delivering sustainable technological solutions and a new approach to energy efficiency then Roberto Galo the floor is all yours And once again thank you for participating Wonderful, Thank you Peterson for the invitation Congratulations Vitória for your presentation Initial, before commenting on specific data from Brazil, I think it is important to understand a little where the environmental impact occurs, both in times of peace or during the defense logistics chain, we have in the defense logistics chain. defense the industrial activity is defense or defense a little expanded to aerospace and which is mostly linked to the country’s electrical matrix in the Brazilian case the transformation activity it It depends on our electrical Grid and the Brazilian electrical Grid is around 83 85% sustainable already has a very high level of sustainability What really differentiates it from the rest of the Global Matrix Average is almost the opposite Global Matrix save my mistake in the region of 25 or 30% of electrical Grid is sustainable a space for greater sustainability and decarbonization of The electric grid chain is relatively limited, right in the Brazilian case, yet there are companies that are concerned with this, for example, Imbel, which is a Brazilian state-owned industry responsible for a large part of the production of ammunition and other equipment, this company, for example it has 100% of its own hydroelectric energy generation, just to have it as a reference, I think it is a very interesting case, on the other hand, we also have the operational aspect of the defense industry, which is a large consumer. of fuel in general we look at the market for the World number eh defense corresponds or corresponds dia save engan 2 years ago at 5.5% of global fuel consumption with the United States being the largest user of fuel whether for aviation or for its Navy in particular, the Americans, one, they use their forces in a very expeditionary way, that is, they are always employing them, around the world, this requires quite a lot of fuel, another important aspect is to understand within the CO2 emission, and the responsibility of aviation Why I mean in relation to aviation the trans the technological overflow between defense and the Civil Aviation industry It’s very big there is no solution for Civil Aviation without fuels without saf sustainable fuels for aviation What are the characteristics of these fuels the characteristics of these fuels the way they are being developed is that they are Drop In. In other words, I can use the traditional jet aircraft engine and simply replace it with new fuel making very few modifications to the aircraft This applies both to aircraft for military use and civil use, normally this only requires changing hoses to avoid drying out and a bureaucratic process of recertifying the aircraft, but specifically in terms of technological modification for the use of saf, that’s what so to speak, the impact is both operational in defense and deployment for Civil Aviation, and the main technology that is missing or the main technology that is sought, is what is meant by the efficient production of this fuel, Brazil has a potential giant in this sector because it mainly has high solar incidence, a favorable climate for the production of vegetable inputs for the production of saf, including even hydrogen Green, as when we think a little more about the future, but in terms of the specific issue of saf, the Brazilian situation is that that until very recently there was no specific legislation that regulated the production of this type of fuel in Brazil . If approved, it will release a very large volume of investments. Currently, the relationship between consumption and supply of safs in the market is one in 10,000. In other words, there is a very large demand and a very small production, there is a fabulous market potential. And then, Peterson I, I, walk a little towards the answer, to answer the question, the state has a role of pushing and pulling, right, the role of pushing, I would say it is through stimulating innovation in this aspect, for example, we currently have open at least two calls from fep , the Brazilian financier of studies and projects with money from the National Science and Technology Fund, is what it foresees, which operates in sustainable aviation, the resources are not available and for use, at any time of the companies, I will even read the calls here right, so there is the fep’s bioeconomy call, which serves companies that are interested in the development of biofuels and that and all the chemistry associated with this modality, there are R250 million available and there is another call that is specific to the sustainable aviation that works in several aspects, such as testing aircraft using safs and new propulsion systems, storage systems and the like, in this sense I would even like to comment a little on the previous Brazilian experience over 10 years ago in Brazil engaged in adapting engines to use Clean fuel, for example, Embraer adapted the Ipanema plane, traditional aircraft, and Emero adapted the engine so that it could run directly on alcohol, the production process of which is quite dominated in the country, just a clear example that there is much more to be done and given the size of the market and the opportunity, this sum of FEP resources, despite being extremely important, would need to be looked at more closely by the State and boosted, in the range of 9 zeros, in the range of billions, like other countries have done so in relation to the theme of new action towards decarbonization in particular there is a great opportunity in Brazil around saf and green hydrogen and but this is the push side where the state actually leverages investment in research and development and we cannot forget the pull side, which is where the legislation that requires, through the purchasing power of the State, mainly that the logistics chain has certain sustainability indices, whether in the use of energy or be it in the operational aspect of the equipment that is there in the Brazilian case specifically, the biggest opportunities we have are really in relation to net emissions, right? Civil Aviation in the first place, since consumption is of fuel in In the Brazilian case, taking into account the investments and expenditures, and also the total number of employees in the GDP is relatively small, so I would say that there is a lot of potential. In Brazil, there are initiatives, as we have already mentioned a few times. eh, here in particular, it has been there for several years, through Fapesp in São Paulo, together with embre, eh, and other companies, Brazil has a history of producing clean fuels, buy alcohol, oh, and we are at the moment where we need a new boost And this new pushing really needs , in relation to pushing, it needs a substantial force from the Brazilian state and that means resources for that and on the pulling side, in my opinion, from the point of view of the production chain, from the point of view of transformation, we are already really well and what you have to do more on the operational side is fundamentally around aviation, which is the big emitter, the big emitter all over the world, but in particular in Brazil, so, I’m trying to do it here, small, small Panorama, thank you very much, thank you very much, rooster for having opened this part of the debate and having put it within the time we immediately gave the floor to Valmir and the separate question here for Valmir is the following, having seen the commitments made by the United Kingdom in terms of net zero, how do you see the agenda? of the energy transition and what initiatives are underway regarding the search for critical minerals in order to ensure this transition What are the main challenges and opportunities in this regard Valmira, the floor is all yours, thank you Peterson Good morning, everyone, I would like to start my speech by thanking the sovereignty and climate ancad of the higher defense school a lavor University, bind too, as well as all my fellow panelists who are also here on the panel, from the perspective of the United Kingdom, we can put together a Panorama, starting with the premise that the The transition to a more sustainable and low-carbon energy system is extremely fundamental for the economy of both the United Kingdom and Brazil, right? it also increases the country’s energy security, as we can see from both Galo’s and Vitória’s speeches, and it also reduces the vulnerability of the economy in general to energy price shocks and mineral exploration, right, and we also get a little into critical minerals It is also very important to understand that climate change mitigation work is very crucial to avoid worse impacts that could also cause risks to national security from the perspective of the British government, right It has long-standing cooperation with Brazil and which even began military cooperation more than 200 years ago, the British defense sector very much recognizes the importance of the energy transition, right? And it has taken gradual measures to reduce its own carbon footprint, right? And this has been done through of commitments and through the implementation of specific energy policies for the sector to make this gradual reduction, right? So we know that in 2019 the government set a target of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the defense sector by 50% by 2030 and of zero net emissions by 2050, this was very important so that the defense sector could actually receive more contributions, right, and increase the interest of the economy in general in actually financing and investing in a variety of Low Carbon technologies such as renewable energy such as electrification of vehicles and also increase investment in energy efficiency for buildings and Constructions, right? In a slightly more dedicated Panorama, the United Kingdom government has also supported research and development in new technologies to increase sustainability in the defense sector, right? investing mainly in technologies such as batteries so that they can be used in the next generation in both military and civil vehicles, right, going a little deeper into the British government’s commitment, the UK sector also aims to reduce its consumption of energy is 20% by 2025, right? This was one of the commitments made at COP 26, which was made in March, is that the sector also aims to increase its generation of renewable energy up to 30% by 2030, right? This is very important for that we can do is the vessel of technologies that gala and Vitória also mentioned in their speeches, right? It is important that these commitments act transversally between an industry-government-private sector relationship so that sustainability can be achieved in the sector, right? And one last commitment that impesa has been working towards incorporate, right, and convert your entire Fleet to models that are electric or hybrid by 2040, this generates a series of benefits that we could spend a lot of time here talking about, but the first of them is greater energy security, right ? the United Kingdom and also how Brazil can reduce their dependence on imported fossil fuels and make them less vulnerable to energy price shocks and reduced costs, right? As we know, we have had a progression, right, of the decrease in energy generation prices, which has led to, right, the insertion and increase in the share of renewable generation in both the United Kingdom and Brazil, and greater resilience, right, a change to a system Renewable energy also helps the defense sector to be more resilient to the impacts of climate change, but all of this also comes with some related challenges and the main one is complexity, right? So, as the rooster said, we have managed to make a transition. gradual, mainly from saf, right from sustainable aviation fuel, for aviation, but the issue of technology is very, very expensive for us in terms of adapting the entire fleet that already exists. to new fuels, right, and this is something that really takes time and that’s why we talk about energy transition, it’s not something immediate, but efforts have to be made. Now, in terms of sustainability strategy, and especially for critical minerals, it’s very It is important to mention that the United Kingdom published its sustainability strategy in 2019 for the defense sector and that it already outlines the main role of critical minerals as a source of infrastructure for the generation of renewable energy, right and we talk about critical minerals to supply the hydrogen chain, for example, which act as catalysts and which can increase the share of renewables in the defense sector, all of this is also related to an improvement in energy efficiency and a change in the supply chain, so The United Kingdom and Brazil have worked together to develop government-to-government cooperation in critical minerals, this is being done in partnership with the Ministry of Mines and Energy, mainly and Desnes, which is the Department of Energy, Energy Security and Net from the United Kingdom, the Embassy of the Kingdom here in Brazil, in the team that I am part of, which is climate, nature and energy, has led this work together with several other consulates that are located here in Brazil to strengthen and give more robustness to the strategy, both Brazilian, right, and the National Energy Transition Plan and also increasing the prominence of critical minerals, but this, as I said, is a gradual work and it can only be achieved through research and development, right, and then I move a little further towards At the end of the speech, it is very important that we consider that advanced energy technologies within the defense sector contribute very significantly to innovation in other sectors of the economy, right? So we can mention the collapse of technology, scientific advancement and also financing as the main drivers of research and development that can increase the sustainability factor within the defense sector, and some specific examples of this are the implementation of batteries, like the lithium ion battery, which has an incredible capacity for application. military that also led to very significant advances in battery technology for civil vehicles, you know, electric vehicles, and in this we can make a very interesting link with the exploration of critical minerals because we are doing the scale up, right, the expansion of the sector and the production chain in Brazil is very important for the UK’s international cooperation with with Brazil, it’s renewable fuels, as we’ve already said, mainly saf, right, which has countless applications and also microgrid, right, the development of microgrid for military bases can provide, right, the advancement of more efficient and more resilient technology for both surrounding community as well as for the companies and for the benefit of the industry, right, all of this is making a big impression, it is very important for accelerating the energy transition, so research and development, the reduction of fossil fuels, the decarbonization of the transport sector and this comes from, right, a lot of of the commitments and regulatory policies that the government is able to design and approve so that the private sector can make financing available And then yes, we do a collaboration between the industry sectors, the private sector and also the sentability standards. in the defense sector Thank you Peterson Thank you very much Valmir moving on to my part of my comments and taking the opportunity to make some provocations for each of you while we receive questions both here in the zoom chat and on YouTube so for you who is watching this webinar Now ask your question on YouTube and the support staff will bring it here and we will select it and pass it on to the exhibitors Okay, so let’s go to the round of provocations, okay then Eh, first of all, start from the back moving forward, then, Valmir, to what extent do you see the potential for concrete partnerships, effective partnerships involving the United Kingdom Defense industry and the Brazilian defense industry, to what extent do you envision this cooperation, the possibility of technology transfer, the possibility of exchanging researchers to possibility of forming partnerships on products in Research Solutions, so in summary, how do you see the potential, in fact, for possible partnerships in an area that we know very well that no one, eh, eh, is willing to share advanced technologies, you know, advanced military technologies, especially in a context of an increasingly volatile and uncertain world, so again, how do you see the possibility of partnerships, concrete exchanges in this area ? fact a topic in conversations in dialogues between the Ministry of Defense and the armed forces because to what extent this can be considered a non-topic in conversations between industry personnel the Ministry of Defense and the armed forces in view of the situation Bal’s current defense situation, the budgetary issue, the budgetary challenge and crises, as we know from public knowledge, involving important companies, such as the current one, with Av Bras in third place. met there in Europe, the British Prime Minister and the German Chancellor announced a great partnership and mainly the injection of many billions of dollars into the area of defense industry, especially taking into account, obviously, the current situation in Ukraine, but also the We see other possible scenarios, other tensions in progress, such as the conflict between Israel and the recent tensions involving Israel and Iran, and also without losing sight of the possible tensions arising from the scenario between Taiwan and China. So what I see as an analyst and academic is the It’s a scenario of European countries injecting a lot of resources Billions of Dollars into the defense industry and then taking advantage of the hook as an example the council the European commission eh eh eh eh for example at the beginning of the year, he announced that he also intends to spend 1 and a half billion euros on the defense industry to increase production, increase production capacity and mainly reduce dependence on weapons from the United States, all of this to ask the following question Vitória to what extent in to what extent the issue of energy transition, the issue of renewables in general, as was even mentioned in the meeting between the German chancellor and the Botanical Prime Minister, the issue of partnerships in the area of hydrogen in the energy area, but to what extent is this not marginalized given the current context of an increasingly uncertain and volatile world, so starting with Valmir, then with Galo and finally with Vitória and then we quickly ask for you to be as succinct as possible because then we move on to our debate phase, so the word is all yours, Valmir, Thank you, Peterson, and as I mentioned before, the United Kingdom is a great research and development partner for Brazil, especially in recent years. In 10 years, the United Kingdom, through international climate financing, has invested more than 510 million pounds in Brazil, mainly in the energy transition, all of this to say that research cooperation currently goes through some very specific fields of our partnership, which is the establishment of research centers, joint financing of projects, exchange of researchers and this in a series of different sectors, right? Mainly now, a great interest of the United Kingdom is to work more closely with Brazil on the issue of nuclear energy, mainly for military applications. eh and eh, I couldn’t help but also talk about one of the British government’s great partners in the defense sector, ba Systems, right? They have a super innovative electric aviation project with Embraer that is already being developed, eh, and they have including taken, right, the entire United Kingdom Technology Vanguard for cooperation with Brazil, mainly in the defense and aviation sector, right? Furthermore, it is very important for us to talk about technology transfer and the production of subsystems, right, I see these two sectors as the main link between the energy sector energy transition and the increased efforts of the defense sector to work on its decarbonization in the short and long term Thank you very much Valmir word for the rooster ready open microphone vija peton your question was very very Punctual right, I must say that the issue of sustainability is in general, right, environmental health within defense, it is on the agenda, it is on the regulatory agenda, right, so there is a great concern that industries are within the scope of compliance with Brazilian regulations. which is really strict, right, in the sense of regulating the sector well, but outside of this bias, there is very little conversation, right, or almost none, and the subject has returned or it has started to appear recently. Now, with the new government of President Lula, where the agenda esg, right, SG, now has greater influence, so when we talk about, for example, our exporter program with Apex, for example, it’s already a variable, it’s already an element, which is within the defense exporter program, right, with bind, there’s a program with Apex for export promotion and within there are some topics of concern and in the same way when we talk about the Brazilian agenda of reind Neo industrialization again the topic is there we also look within the lines of the fep clearly the lines where sustainability is environmental and it’s there but it’s not the force, it’s not the forces discussing the topic, right ? biggest challenge it currently has by far, so the second one isn’t even close, right? The first one alone is the re-equipment of forces, since the relationship between the acquisition of materials, defense equipment, and the rest of our budget is very distorted. There is one, one is anomalous, right? The current number is that only 5% of our defense budget goes to the acquisition of equipment. This number I achieved very recently. So, this is the number for equipment. There is about 2% investment in any other type of thing, right? and everything else is okay, it’s part of consumables and almost everything is personal, right? I just wanted to make a small connection with what was said by Valmir, right in relation to scientific and technological cooperation, right? Brazil has a critical mass, this is a difference between Brazil and all other countries in South America, I would say even in Latin America, Brazil has a critical mass of universities research centers, thinkers, actors who have a very large exchange of scientists who go to the United Kingdom to generate innovation there, right? And for Brazil, it’s more interesting, so we make it very clear, right? As a national project, Brazilian researchers should go back and create the technology here, right? because the generator of wealth is the exploitation of technology, plan B is to receive the transfer of technology This is plan B Plan A is to make technology that exploit this technology around the world and generate money here technology it generates wealth in two ways, right? your employment Which is totally valid and in its exploration Brazil has the critical mass size muscles to appropriate technology in both ways in employment and exploration the United Kingdom is a great partner in the training of scientists It is in technological transfer, eh and it is It is also important that we have a national national project with cooperation. Of course, the generation of intellectuals here is the heart of this intellectual proade. Brazil, as I said, can be a great beneficiary of the Global energy transition. But it will be much more so if it is the owner of its technologies, not the user just fine eh but ISO obviously needs a national project and a strategic vision of the subject thank you very much galo I give the floor to Vitória thank you and thanks Peterson for the specific questions that you [ __ ] Together to us um so you asked me about that context of a volatile World or perhaps an uncertain World I’m not going to comment on the particular political situations um but in General there’s a sense of reviewing What are the priorities um and so you asked me about to measures is sustainability marginalized um and it’s a really important question to ask so in the uk environmental protection and I suspect This is true in Brazil as well environmental protection and mitigation are values that we Hold dear and we will not Let Go of those things remain dear and if we look at the wording around emissions reduction in a Defense context it has typically come alongside a cavat of emissions reduction Without reducing military capability um now the emphasis I think has shifted as youve suggested there there remains an ambitious Drive to reduce emissions and to Engage with the Energy transition and to be efficient about what Energy is Used and in What Way but It’s more than that because if I go back to climate Science we are not talking about mitigation and reducing the risks We’re also talking about understanding that the context is changing and that context is changing in terms of the environment a hotter and cer seas less salty seas different less predictable weather events these environmental Changes come with Direct implications for the efficiency effectiveness and maintenance cycles of equipment if we do we still end up in a situation Where Change is required so It’s Not Okay to say not important Anymore we don’t look at it that is absolutely not the Case instead What’s come to the four Is that climate Science And analysis and this is Where academia has a Key role to play and International collaboration as well analysis and understanding of How is the environment around US changing in terms of the Physical environmental characteristics and to what extent we can use data from the last 100 Years to predict the next 100 Years and uh What operating in a particular Part of the world Might look like also the Energy World What is happening in the commercial sphere and um you know Let’s hypothesize for a moment Everything from a commercial Perspective even just All Passenger Cars if they were to all move over to Electric vehicles well the Defense Industry cannot support on its Own all of the infrastructure required to get existing fuel so there’s a civ that has implications in terms of ris and also opportunities so talked about that Change in Energy environment which brings New ris it brings New opportunities as well Val mentioned some elements of the Energy transition and I’d build on that with the chance to look at Energy Security and resilience so how can we Create Systems that are more effective and this is Part of Change with macro Changes come opportunities not just to do like what we did slightly better but to genuinely question what is done and How is it done um and then To Build on on roberta’s area linked to my question the innovation cycle is so crucial here so if We’re looking at what We’re collaborating on between our countries we can also recn that Where perhaps Historical innovation Might in Defense and move industries there is a need opportunity researchers to SP multiple and applications and their experience question to the rooster and finally I will pass on a question to Valmir first question to Vitória okay Vitória could you please expand or detail what the state’s participation in the energy transition would be like in relation to the defense industry this participation would be through example of tax incentives or the guarantee of product purchase or another way So that’s the question for Vitória, I’m going to Oler right away because then there’s time for you to think so as not to be completely unprepared, so here’s the question for Valmir how Valmir sees the application of the carbon market in the energy transition how this market in Brazil is working and then I’ll make an addendum . comparison and last but not least Question for Roberto Galo What are the coordination mechanisms that can be implemented to deal with government fragmentation and facilitate collaboration between sectors and how this could benefit or is already benefiting the defense industry In addition of how these mechanisms could be adapted to promote more effective collaboration in tackling climate change So this is something we always talk about, right, rooster, eh, the ministry of C and technology does one thing, industrial policy within the scope of the mic does one thing thing the Ministry of Defense does something else the beds asks for that, right the fep Asks for something else so it seems that there is no convergence there is a fragmentation of initiatives and mechanisms And that is the question for you so in order is it personal V lisis oo aav to su eui quite a while you going to talk two mechanisms so to talk more than two mechanisms but start with so One Where Defense has its Own infrastructure and is making upgrades It’s imperative that The Question of What is planned includes include Energy efficiency and climate resilience those Two options and It’s in the interest of Def organizations to do that because they are typically owning Land and making purchases related to infrastructure that will be in place for many years and indeed many decades so if you’re buying Something That will be in place for many decades well wouldn’t you like to understand your Future Energy picture your Future flood Risk and so on so that’s when it comes to infrastructure and I think there’s a lesson when we look at wider societal Change as well that many small actions add up to a larg so rather than saying I must repace every boiler right now well what about looking at the maintenance cycle and when it’s going to be appropriate time to do that but have a policy that Says when I upgrade it I’ll upgrade it in a positive way so so there’s an infrastructure question I would love to get to a point Where the standards and the policies uh and the and the regulations around Defense equipment mandate sustainability and design so that all of you know the the temperature ranges that equipment subjected to the expected an environments in which they’ll be operated in are written into Defense standards such that designers of equipment manufacturers tes And evaluation and integration organizations Like Us would come and when We’re providing analysis reports that say what will be effective and What complies with the standards that would of course be inherent in the Report that is going to take time so we get there but standards updates are International and It Takes many years to agree around What should go into the common documents that everybody commits to abide by and so it leaves The Question Open in my mind about what is appropriate to do in the mean that Will support Defense Industry Energy transition so soon I think there’s an opportunity for leading stakeholders to start to ask questions in UK Defense contracts for large large acquisitions there are two Main mechanisms that they can use To do that one is a set of questions Called social value one these these Ask these give an opportunity to look at How in delivering the Project that you’d be delivering anyway how are you adding value to the society around you and some some of the questions report to Carbon emissions and sustainability however what i would also like to see is more people and this has begun but more people starting to ask in the Core requirements development um And and so when they’re defining out a requirement just Ask for a comment to start with How is this going to build resilience How will this cope when the Energy when the Energy environment around US Changes uh What are the What are the barriers and enablers that Will affect this particular acquisition whatever it Might be so we got a longterm Change Thank you very much Vitória word is with Valmir then Roberto Thank you Peterson Just remembering the question a little, right? An analysis was requested, right? About the Carbo market in the United Kingdom, we can deal with the United Kingdom and then bring it closer to Brazil, and in the United Kingdom, a system was implemented. a little broader, right, and which is also considered cutting -edge globally, which is itss, right, which is ok emissions trade scheme, and which aims, right, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the main sectors that we have already covered here Today, you know, energy, industry and aviation, mainly, the way this system works is that it implements some limits on greenhouse gas emissions in these specific sectors that I mentioned and companies need to acquire these permissions to emit carbon and the price, right? Of these permissions, it ends up increasing, right, evolving over time, encouraging companies, right, sectors to actually reduce their emissions, this is very important, important for Let’s say, to make the economy generate because it creates a financing system for Low Carbon projects, right? These projects can be renewable energy projects , energy efficiency projects, even reforestation projects, which also makes it possible to work with, which is a carbon storage and capture technology that is very crucial for industries that are difficult to abate. greenhouse like construction like Transport like the oil and gas industry and so on, and in a certain way it also ends up hindering Innovation, right? So there’s a system in the United Kingdom for the development of new Low Carbon technologies to support research at universities. connecting a little with what the rooster said to provide subsidies for this critical mass that exists both in the United Kingdom and also in Brazil, right, and then talking a little about our national context, right, the carbon market in Brazil is a growing market in expansion, right, so it has been seen, right, throughout different sectors, in the industry and also in the production chain, right, in energy, and in defense, that the volume of transactions, right, in the market, has been increasingly greater over the years. years ago, if I’m not mistaken, the Brazilian carbon credit system was created two or three years ago, right, which is the sbcc and it was a milestone to actually bring greater institutional security to the carbon market and it also managed to encompass different sectors within its Framework, right, so it managed to bring it closer, eh, agriculture, the forestry sector, energy, the services sector, which in fact brought adhesion, right, Bigger for the carbon market, in the Brazilian context, the market has a lot potential due to several sectors related to the expansion of sustainable forests and agriculture that help to meet the reduction of emissions that the carbon market aims to achieve. But in fact, there are still some very clear challenges, right? For the market to actually engage right, in the Brazilian context and the main one is the lack of regulation, right? So, as we mentioned in several points of the Today there is still a huge effort by the United Kingdom and Brazil to put into practice regulatory measures that provide both a business and political environment for sustainability to occur, right? So in Brazil, regulation is still being discussed in Congress. for the carbon market, but this ends up generating a certain uncertainty in terms of investment and financing in the short term, right, another challenge that we can mention is unequal access, right, so we have companies that are so better positioned and sectors in general that so better positioned to have an advantage in the carbon market and this can limit the growth of the industry as a whole and the connection with the energy transition is very focused on financing that we have already covered, you know, of sustainable projects the market You can support the financing of these projects, such as reforestation, energy generation, energy efficiency, but also the reduction of emissions, which is very important for sectors. As I said, it is difficult to reduce your emissions and your carbon footprint, but all of this, right? As I said, it is a work that has been done by many hands, the United Kingdom is a great partner of the Brazilian government in the institutionalization of its emissions market and I believe that it has a lot of potential, right, for Brazil and for the United Kingdom achieve together in the pricing and systematization of Emissions Trading Thank you very much for your kind words Roberto Galo Thank you Peterson I will try to respect everyone’s time here and be brief in my response Brazil comes first in relation to the environmental issue in general he it has what is needed in terms of precursors the population cares, that’s the first big thing, right? It cares about the environmental impact, the average Brazilian has an environmental awareness, quite important and quite important, this isn’t new today, it’s been a long time. political environment is also relative, I would say that there are a lot of people who are very concerned, some are not concerned. So there is also political motivation for things to be done, however, we have to remember that the environmental issue, just like the defense issue, is a naturally transversal issue. it requires the coordination of different bodies, entities and elements of national political life so that it is effective because all actions are around the environment, in some places they are objective, they mean doing something, delivering something, in some other cases they are qualitative or it is the adjective of something else it is the most efficient engine it is the policy of it is the preservation policy with the lowest level of emissions i.e. it is not it is not the natural theme of a single eh of a single ministry within the structure of the government I I have the Ministry of the Environment which is naturally the most concerned about everything but the Ministry of the Environment is not capable of strategically resolving or strategically coordinating all the pieces that are necessary for this to work and today in Brazil In fact, not today For a while now in Brazil we haven’t had a body whose mission, I mean, is the strategic thinking of coordination, heard by everyone, coordinated with everyone who is responsible or who influences or who is or who is the executor of a policy, this policy, this information does not go back to someone who is responsible for the strategic action and strategic monitoring of the policies outlined, it’s a bit symptomatic, it’s quite symptomatic that our secretariat for strategic affairs, right, was created and was removed from the administration structure. public several times in recent years it is not a perennial body And that’s where Brazil stumbles several times in several of its initiatives, not having a perennial state structure that thinks and coordinates strategic actions, right? It’s someone with power to command Total No, it’s not this is necessary to consult But once the strategic objective is defined, the coordination of long-term actions, right that go through governments, it needs to have an owner and it doesn’t have an owner in Brazil This is a big problem, right? I think we lack this we need one one one wakeup call around this issue, if anything can prevent Brazil from being an environmental power, it is precisely that, the lack of long-term strategic coordination is the only element that can prevent us from being a political one. environmental power so thank you very much, guys, in the last part of this webinar my proposal is to do the following, depending on time, I will ask two questions, two questions that I asked here, copy and paste from the chat and also from zoom, okay? then you will try as much as possible to make comments regarding these two questions, already making the final words, making the final words so we can close the webinar Ok, let’s go, let’s reverse the order again, so now Gala comes first, Valmira in second and victory in third, the first question is the first question for the three of you, how do you see the role of the nuclear area in this debate about energy transition, on the one hand we have the issue of global warming Ok, the question of of the Urgent need to reduce carbon emissions and on the other hand we have nuclear energy with all the problems and challenges that we already know well but which in theory could act as, let’s say, an alternative eh eh eh an Extra alternative an alternative eh for countries that are in a position to use this, right, use the nuclear area, okay? So this is the first question, how do you see the role of the nuclear area of nuclear energy in this area of energy transition, and the second question is how to prevent this agenda This decarbonization energy transition agenda is not an agenda, let’s say, North and South, an agenda that will divide the rich countries that are in a position to invest in technology that will develop products that will develop solutions for the poor countries, they will end up as buyers or users or dependents of these products, these solutions, these research being developed in the north, in rich countries. So how can we ensure that this energy transition agenda, which is so necessary for the ultimate survival of our planet, becomes something that really involves benefits, challenges mutual and and it doesn’t become another issue, let’s say, of segregation between rich countries, poor countries, North and South, ok, so, eh, first word, rooster, Valmir and Vitória, if I’m not mistaken, that’s the order I said, okay, and if I didn’t say that order, then it was lend This order that the brain here is already mentalizing the meal So let’s go, ok, and then we’ll pass the word Peterson Thank you, these are two very difficult questions but there is one thing that unites them, which is that Brazil’s special situation is having the one one one is in our hands is very close, sustainability, high sustainability index throughout our energy chain, right? When we look at it from the point of view of current generation of electrical energy, already 85% Clean, right? Missing % that is around plants typically thermoelectric, right, combustion, right, remember that the nuclear plant is a thermoelectric, radiation right, uh, in my opinion, they don’t form enough of a market from the Brazilian point of view, right, to have the level of attention necessary in renewable energy, in particular, the issue of wind and solar issues, we have a problem with generation mismatch with consumption schedule, right? It’s known as B belly, this problem of generation mismatch and it seems Nuclear energy is a very reasonable alternative because you can generate it whenever you want or constantly, but there is also battery technology that has been considered around the world. In fact, when we talk about batteries and solar energy, in particular, there is a Chinese flood around the world, very recently the Chinese industry, the Chinese state has been investing in electrification very heavily for export, no wonder that the largest manufacturer of electric cars has become biodi, quite recently, if Is it a dumping strategy or is there simply an intrinsic cost reduction in their industry? It’s something to be talked about, but in the Brazilian case, electrification of the fleet doesn’t seem to be the best option, right ? of alcohol generation in Brazil, I don’t want to name things here, but we simply had a series of plants, a series of alcohol producers spread across the country, at a certain point we started to have just two groups that dominate, eh, the market as a whole and more recently it seems that a company was born that calls itself unique, I’m surprised how the CAD, which in theory should combat the cartelization of the market, was not able to predict this if we look 10 years ago, alcohol in several times of the year Mainly during harvest periods, it was much cheaper than gasoline for the same amount of energy delivered, right today, alcohol, the price of alcohol is attached to gasoline, this is possible because there is a cartel in the market, market monopolization, what does it do? so that the Green fuel agenda for private automobiles in Brazil does not advance, right? Public policy is missing, and most likely, it is necessary to open this box and ensure that there is real competition in Brazil, from a strategic point of view, maintaining nuclear capacity in Brazil. of Brazil is quite important, Brazil is a member of the Treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, this is very important, but it is still necessary to maintain all the research and development capacity, complete uranium cycle in Brazil, this is absolutely fundamental, eh, So if the deployment it’s a development that makes it commercially viable by having nuclear plants in Brazil, so be it, but nuclear capacity needs to continue here, collaboration with countries that already master this type of technology, its complete cycle is also quite important, mainly because there is a new crop of reactors coming to the market that are much, much, much cheaper to produce per megawatt of generation, which are nuclear microgenerators, this type of technology has a transformative capacity, they are small, they are cheap, they require much less environmental licensing and they can be distributed throughout the United States China has also invested a lot of resources, and if I’m mistaken, France has also invested a lot of resources in this type of generation, something to look at, I’ll finish here then Valmir and then Vitória, thank you, Peterson, already doing some of the final words, I would like to thank you more once for the opportunity to be with you here in this partnership, well, in nuclear terms, we understand that the share of nuclear generation in Brazil’s energy matrix is still very timid, right ? It has expansion ambitions, with a focus on providing clean energy , with a lower emission factor, for industry and several other sectors, and also to diversify the energy matrix through different sources of electricity. However, it is very important that we make a point within this that the role, right, of nuclear energy in the future of the energy matrix, it is outlined, right, in the plan proposed by the epe, right, the 2050 energy plan, right? of achieving , right, adding more than 10 GW to the energy matrix , right, if this will actually come to fruition, we don’t know, right? of the National industry in relation to this sector, right? Currently, as you know, there are two operational reactors that make a contribution to this 1% of the energy matrix, however, there are opportunities for cooperation, Mainly in the SMRs, right, which are the smaller reactors than ooo galo mentioned in terms of energy transition, right, now moving on to the second question, it’s interesting because this point also came up in a speech by the Brazilian government last week, right, there was the working group on energy transition within the G20 and It was a lot, it was very curious to see Brazil position itself as a voice, right, from the Global North in relation to the energy transition and demanding, right, greater cooperation and greater partnership in relation to countries positioned in the Global North, from my perspective, right, working in the British government and working in partnership with the Brazilian government , We understand that it is very important that there is a cooperation effort linked to financing and the balancing of the financial sector so that the cost of investment and financing in countries like Brazil, for energy transition, is significantly reduced, and this, right, can be done through a series of mechanisms, we won’t have time to go into them today, but mainly through Transparency in energy policy and through greater unification of the private sector to direct this financing to countries like Brazil like Chile and Argentina to work on their capabilities in energy transition and the adoption of this lower cost of capital is very important for one to increase energy security and two to even develop both economic and climate environmental sustainability of new energy projects, right, so this is a priority that the Brazilian government has taken to discussions in 2020, I believe it will also lead to discussions next year at COP3 to actually create an international end that makes it possible, right, and to increase the appetite for financing and investment of energy projects in Brazil, but this goes hand in hand with the reduction, you know, with the risking that we talk about, reducing the investment risk and the cost of investment, also in places like Brazil, thank you very much, last but not least. Vitória the word is yours thank you Okay so let’s look at those questions One at a time and I’ll I’ll Build a bit on What and Roberto have said before so one the role of nuclear there are some Big Promises that Have been made from developers of new nuclear Solutions particularly I think when we look at the modular small and medium size Solutions one and there potential for a significant in Energy infrastructure of Future assuming that development continues well and I think there still Science and technology to be done to Ensure that they can be rolled out safely and effectively and in a way that integrates well with the rest of the system so I think that’s a watch this Space question rather than One where we know The answer already secondly how can we prevent this from becoming a North South divides well What An opportunity to ch how we interact Together nations and posi Progress that has already started so I particularly like there’s a Website Called Our World in data which draws out Graphics and graphs of changes around the world Where We can gather data on What is happening and there is some Fantastic Progress that has been Made In The Number of people The reducing Number of people living in poverty The increasing Number of people Who are able to access education and other factors that people to live healthier happier lives Let’s say for for a short time for Now one so we have already as a World as a Global society made some good steps of Progress and I think It’s important to recognize that and build on it and not see this as a looming impossible but actually something where we know we can make significant Change Across societies developing New Technologies where we didn’t know What was possible beforehand and this is a Space Where We need to do that so Yes it’s a challenge we’ve seen Huge improvements Around the World Let’s Now Welcome the different perspectives that Will Come from people living in different environments with different demands And resour and with diverse perspectives one and so that brings me around to say thank you I’ve really enjoyed the opportunity to be Part of the discussion I think climate change brings New imperatives on all of Us also brings New threats risks and opportunities um collaboration is absolutely Essential and isn’t it great to see it here between governments between government Industry academia innovators um having the conversation and then acting off the back of it is absolutely Essential We need to start to Stitch resilience into resilience to the impacts of climate change into the Core strategies and requirements for Everything that Defense is planning for and Fin need ch Take an exle and regulations take to discuss the detail and we need to get gritty detail so conversation on those tos where we want Fir ags to be in place in not distant Future We need now than our traditional moment confetti thank our exhibitors the time attention thank the people here at sovereign clima o Marcos, Bruna, Poliana, Mila, they worked hard for this webinar to become a reality, not only this webinar but the entire cycle of the webinar, the glorious Tamire Santos, ok, without her, none of this would also be possible, she who doesn’t sleep, she who doesn’t take vacations, she who is always everywhere at the same time is up so Tamires hugs to you and to end the moment with the fet thank our partners okay So guys just here passing on some warnings on May 10th May 10th there will be the webinar critical and strategic minerals in Brazil a sovereignty and climate agenda so May 10th , write it down in your diary and finally The fourth and final webinar of this cycle Look guys, it turned out to be good So finally on May 24th we close this cycle of webinars with the theme of defense and sustainability Ok so let’s get to that fourth webinar you will have the webinar defense and new sustainable technologies the case of sustainable aviation fuel And then we end this cycle with a flourish so time is up, thank you all very much, well this will be recorded here and made available on YouTube for anyone who wants it reviewing the best moments is just not worth making memes Ok so see you guys thank everyone and bye bye