New: Dare Aero Bike, Trek Madone, Pinarello Dogma & Canyon Aeroad | The NERO Show Ep. 86

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The start of the Critérium du Dauphiné (Tour de France Warm Up Race) see’s a huge amount of new bikes on top of team cars. We do some pixel peeping and make our predictions about these new bikes from Canyon, TREK, DARE and Pinarello

00:00 intro
00:30 New Bikes At Dauphiné
01:25 New Aerroad
06:22 New Dogma
11:06 New Dare Aero Bike
14:00 Madone Spotted at Dauphiné
23:19 What Does This Mean For TREK?
38:38 NorCal Aero Sensor
44:53 Coyle Bike Update
46:57 Rim Brake Regrets
53:35 Coyle Race Tips

Footage courtesy of
@roadcc
@NorCalCycling

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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
STRAVA: https://www.strava.com/athletes/186450
Check Out Jesse’s Coaching: https://www.nero.club/coaching

welcome to episode 86 of the Nero show in today’s episode the pro teams unveil some new bikes at the Criterium to do a we’ve got the canyon we’ve got a dare we’ve got a Tre and we have a new Dogma to get excited about noral gets his hands on an Aeros sensor what tests do we want to see and Jesse gives us some secret insight to how he beat me on the weekend all right let’s get into it what a week what a week what a week Jesse coil uh some weeks just hit it’s just every morning I wake up oh crap okay there’s news this could be a three-hour episode just just to warn future Chris when he’s editing this uh this this just just just let it roll Just In fact let’s just just roll with it so I don’t know where do you want to start there’s there’s been a a freaking dump of stuff this there is I mean we’re going to let’s start as we usually do which is New Gear new bikes that we’ve seen look the biggest one is clearly the new the manod the new track bike but I got a lot to say on that so I want go through some of the other bikes we’ve seen first a lot of them are coming out to the cerium to doofan I think a lot of people that argue whether that is the biggest that’s maybe that’s a whole other chat we out yeah iel no no no no no I thought you talking about Unbound to okay no no no I think the arrow is a big deal oh yes yes oh I see what you mean oh but in terms of well we’ll get onto that in a sec actually we we let’s start off there because you can say like oh new Canyon a road spotted looks the same so like let’s I mean let’s have a look to me it looks pretty much same and now I always these are just bikes that they haven’t officially been released yet they have been ridden by Pros in races they’re not really hiding it but they haven’t done the full white book the full junk at tours we haven’t seen that yet so we’re just speculating based on what the frames look like um and the canyon a road looks pretty much the same I think there was a slight change to the seat tube uh chain uh seat stay Junction maybe something going on with the handlebar slightly different but the actual silhouette of the frame looks pretty pretty pretty much the same now firstly fair I think fair enough honestly like the old bike tested pretty well bander pool’s well champ on it I’m almost I’m close to giving Canyon a pass on this because the old bike already like in the tour magazines testing tests pretty well Vander has been winning races he’s World Champ on it uh it’s for that a in particular it’s a bit of a case of if it’s not broke and it’s already doing well don’t don’t fix it I just think it looks dated that’s the main thing so that that this is it here like if I look at that it it it to me it looks dated is it just me do you agree I don’t agree with you okay um it’s it’s weird um I don’t agree with you because Canyon have hung on to that thick CH thick Arrow tubing to me is actually still a nod to the Future yes they haven’t Incorporated a gimmick anywhere in there I understand that but look just to answer simply the question that you asked no I don’t think this bike looks dated okay so then my other question to you is that seen the new one it looks pretty similar and as they release it and it’s mostly the same 10% this 5% that we go it’s most the same well you’ve ridden the current generation if you if if Canyon called you up ah Chris Miller we’re designing the new one what do you reckon what should we do having ridden it what would you like to see change the handlebars a little a more um ergonomic fit to the bars I I think that there was certainly some gains to make around the shaping of those specifically about where they could find aerodynamic advantage in the frame I have no idea right um but just from a pure ride ability perspective it was it was when I was swapping in between the S5 and that bike a little bit it was always the thing I came back to that the handlebars felt less refined that’s the word I was after less refined than the less refined less capable that’s capable yeah exactly um that that would have been my only thing I never had any issues with the seat post stuff I had like the they had like that weird solution Thing by the time I I got one y um but you can clearly see I mean the two issues that that aod had on launch was the handlebars snapping and the creaking seat post well clearly they seem to be two things that they’ve refined okay and and fixed up and apart from that I kind of think it’s a freaking perfect bike like I really do I I have no hesitation recommending that bike to someone who wants an arrow bike okay fair play so I mean it seems like what just from just from first look it seems like they kind of with that because it doesn’t appear to be too much messing around with you’re right I think that that uh seat tube kind of molding that they’ve done does seem to be the most obvious thing when it comes to what they’ve done on the frame um you know I can guess that this is just this is again all these bikes all these Arrow bikes they’re I reckon what their their remit for 2025 is is is can you be built up at 6.8 kilos mhm I think we’ve now moved away from any we can get into this chat later but that’s that’s what I feel like this arrow is g to enable them to achieve may we can’t see it cuz it’s all it’s it’s all been refinement in the layup refined layup that’s what they might come out with Forge technology mhm something like that I didn’t have much else to say on the canyon oh just great to see valter getting out and about on it isn’t it just he was him and Matthew just great it’s just great that the canyon of are leaning on valter’s input for uh for this this is just just fantastic I’m I’m so happy for everyone involved in F1 that uh the middle of the road driver is so important in our sport but anyway there’s a there’s a there’s a little hedge that I’ll die on y I’ll I’ll hold you up while you um while you go up there I I tend to agree new Dogma oo what do we what do we got what have you seen here firstly that bottom bracket bottom bracket oh yes oh none of this sl8 skinny little twig bottom bracket chunk the boy up that is it’s not just thick it’s also long honest it is it’s like this almost like a bucket under there it’s ginormous I didn’t I’m to go check a dogar in person when when I first saw this I thought I thought we were looking at Storage Solutions in the in the pinell sort of bottom bracket just I was so heartened by this Jesse just to see a bike that was fully it’s it felt like they were leaning back into the old Dogma that I this is kind of a bike that not everyone loved but that really bendy Fork version that was kind of iconically that pinell we’ve got some shapes on this bike some silhouettes on this bike that just this this does a lot for me um so you got that I think we’ve also got the this shaping of the seat stays mhm um what else is on there the head tube’s bigger stretch out the head tube classic one I mean it’s still looks similar it I kind of this is like a middle of the road change it’s not a massive one it’s it’s you would say it’s up from the up from the aod in terms of changes in the amount of changed it looks far more noticeable than the arrow the arrow you’re kind of like zooming in going oh maybe this was tale especially in the front of the bike definitely looked different um by the way Road CC did a video reviewing it and and they’re up there filming and then the mechanics are coming over so the bike is on top of the team car in the pits and they’re filming it riding it out in public and then Theos staff come over like oh we told you not to film it move on move along like but you the bike’s out there in public what’s what’s up with this I do you want to get into this now fine this is this is a we’re in a position now where the way cycling media and all this handle information a presented information it it’s not I don’t think it’s quite sustainable the way we’re doing this because I’m sure there’s like embargos and stuff on this but then the brands are putting this out in public eye where there are cameras it’s it’s impossible and not viable to just put a big black up saying you can’t film this and then they’ll get pissed off about it but in the flip side the brands want you doing this the brands trust me pinell if they’re watching aod if they Canyon if they’re watching they want us doing exactly what we’re doing which is speculating on their new products you know this is the froth that builds up as it goes and so to me may I even suck it in maybe that was a whole set up 100% they went okay Road CC guy you stand there we’re going to come over and pretend like we’re angry and then you can be like oh we got oh you know sneaky spy shots we got told off so what all I’m kind of saying is this is this weird Middle Ground we’re in now where there’s a product that we can talk about but we’re pretending to be shoed away from it but it feels like like it was pretending the inos that guy seemed pretty angry when he walked over and I’m thinking well the bike’s on the top of the car anyone could just take a video of it like and you want to take if if they win you want to talking about the fact you’re on the new bike like what do you think we’re going to do here I actually don’t think it was very good look it was kind of I just thought like why you telling this guy to go away he’s trying to make a video about your new bike and you telling him to shush off it’s not like he’d SN he he’d like broke into your service course like what anyway so that was that was a Dogma anything else to add on the Dogma Chris uh no I just want one you okay no on the scale of Vikes this is the dogma’s always been in my want one category and this only sort of pushes it more firmly into the I want one category I think I mean if this if that bike comes out whenever it is released and is around 7 kilos and let’s say it’s tool magazine do it at 207 Watts 28 Watts sign me up sign me up 30k later look at these numbers guys just you like that you like that wow look I’m certain there will have up the tie clearance on that that’s the other thing you can you can I Reon you can tell at the back end of that bike that they’ve up the tire clearance 33 M okay hold it here first all right cool sounds good yeah another one new dare one aob bike D bikes by Uno you got some inside did so so it was one by Jonas abrahamson at Brussels Cycling Classic weapon absolute weapon just disgusting out of the saddle 70 rpm and just just no one can really do anything about it it’s it’s brilliant to watch and then Magnus caught the other night doof stage wins and you’re kind of looking going what is that I I thought it was their time TR bike that they’ put Road bars on anyway in the DMS I’m mean I’m in y I’m in yon’s DM slides in IR replied uh it’s the new Arrow frame from dare so there’s there’s I can’t find any actual photos of it I’m just you got to kind of pixel peep from action shots from the race but this is a proper chunked out is it big boy aerobike um no two ways about it tube like that’s ma it is massive we don’t really know anything about it so I don’t have much to say and I’ll do my best to send you some photos of it that I’ve been sort of scaring from but interesting one to to follow I think as well to see who who’s writing it when they’re riding it um because with a lot of these brands that are going to the one road bike to do it all to see dare come out and just go bang new full on Arrow bike uh I think is gonna be an interesting one to follow and it’s already had two well Tour results which is pretty crazy well we called this a few months ago when we talking about oh the one bike to rule at all seems to be where they’re all going that maybe these second tier brands are the ones that will take up the the flag of the specific style of bike for specific stages because potentially they’ve got the sort of production to be able to do that just quickly particular on this bike it’s been a long time since I watched a pro race and I watched a pro race that Brussels Cycling Classic and went looked at the looked at just simply the pro race and went that’s a different bike something difference going on there like there’s no way the new Arro MV banderole could have ridden around on that for years and I would never have noticed the difference abrahamson rides on that and it was immediately like oh [ __ ] no that is a new bike yep yep 100% talking of bikes I’d ride there I’d ride one oh that’s a CO that that is such a coil break actually just raw efficiency y I reckon it looks pretty cool with 33 mil tires on there you would have been Unstoppable at kille we’re not talking about that not talking about that oh don’t worry Chris we’re going to be we’re going to be talking about that one uh that is the new dare that’s three new bikes there’s still one more the Big Daddy the M new bike spotted the m m the one Mond to rule them all it’s it’s there at the doofan well that’s it I mean it is at the doofan these are you know we’re looking at photos of bikes on the top of cars out the front of well toour buses but you know this is being ridden by mads peton at the race so we have to assume that this is this is the bike so what what are your emotions here Jesse okay my initial thing for when I’ve saw it was not even about the bike I I saw the YouTube thumbnails and I went oh they’re doing that thing where they the team rides it and they don’t give any information on it and I ah it’s really I don’t like it I prefer when it all happens at once personally so that was interesting um I straight off the I’m just not a I’m not a fan of it and I’ve said I think I’ve even said it when we were discussing the you know the early spy shots of it slim down version of a bike I already thought was really good looking is just kind of not as good yeah so my initial emotion obviously was smugness but that as my wife says smugness is not attractive so don’t go on about that Chris um but yeah I I was sad I’m not going to lie I was pretty sad looking at that um especially the bike radar video where they really seem to get into it um because for me that well the Okay the reason I’m sad initially was obviously we we’ve both talked about this we want more choice we want specific bikes C but that’s me I’m I’m allowed to say that that’s what I want okay that’s what I want I want climbing bike AO bike yep um the the other reason I was saddened by it was I felt this bike has gone more towards the e- less towards the Mone yep and it disappointed me from that perspective like I would have loved to have seen them lean further into the Mone and okay get rid of the Amanda but get that try and get that Mone to 7 kilos 7.1 that would been fine and and go that route MH proof will be in the pudding of this bike you know you know whatever we we we can winge and complain about it from a pro perspective what happened on the first ride that they did with it m Pon wins a Sprint yep so maybe maybe our talk is irrelevant slop no it’s not it’s not a relevant slop it is highly relevant detailed stuff and we’re going to go into it so let’s pick the bones of this new Mone um keeping the isoflow seat post thumb up first positive something unique amongst all the frames that look the same there was that photo that went around where it was snapped off M there was never any cont to thato for all we know some drove that into the and it just snapped besides that one photo it seems like no one’s really having issues with this ISO flow seat post thing so from like a warranty safety thing I think it’s past the buck and I think it looks cool and it supposedly it’s more Arrow so I I I kind of like that they’ve kept it I think I think fair play uh next thing just quietly there’s no way they could have got rid of it I don’t think that would have been one of the greatest backflips in bicycle technology history if they’d got rid of that so I I’m a I agree with you I love the is FL I think it’s iconic and I’m I’m I wouldn’t be I wouldn’t be against being told that it is actually doing something whether it’s a compliance thing whatever it’ll be the first thing whenever they launch this Spike whenever it comes out it’ll be the first thing that we dive into to I reckon because obviously the arrow testing we’ll get we’ll see results all that kind of stuff this part of the bike you would have to assume they will be leaning on so that’s just going to be a TBC when it comes out couldn’t be slower could it couldn’t be slower fair enough next thing Arrow bottle cages with with custom bottles right that’s a sneaky one because they’re not the first ones that did it so you’ve got a couple of things you’ve got bikes sculpt the tubes to fit the bottles like the dogma and The BMC time machine where they say run a standard bottle but we’re going to shape the tube so it’s faster with a bottle on it cool then you’ve got the next level which is we’re going to do that and we’re then going to sell you an arrow bottle with the bike and I’m pretty sure I remember the canondale Super Six did this good spot they came with those bottles that’s where I I go I don’t know if I can pass that because what if you stop using the bottles and then you know the the the three Watts that you you had in your head that it was saving cuz the marketing thing told you that is is then not the case because your bottles got moldy and you’re back to round bottles and then you you’re as same speed as the old generation so so the arrow bottle thing I I I could go either way on it I think sculpting the tube giving giving Arrow bottles I mean how long have like time TRS been using those Arrow shaped bottles for for yon I mean it saves a couple Watts I think if you’re Trek you’ve got the old Mone you’re trying to slim down the Mone to get it light up but you know it’s going to be tested so you kind of want it to be similar speed W brilliant give it some some Arrow bottles and M put that part of the package and then when they do the testing it’ll probably be similar speed so I think easy win um so I’m going to I’m probably going to go on the side of thumbs up for that I do think it’d probably at you know high speed probably does save a few watts and probably doesn’t not that hard to do I just think it’s a sneaky one because they could have Arrow bottles have been around for ages they could have done this 10 years ago but they didn’t so you’re kind of like it’s like the ace up your sleeve and then when you’re desperate you pull it out I know you you look at the pictures of it there so the pictures that I’m looking at are the ones on the roof of the of the car um and it’s hard to tell from that picture but you do get the sense that that down tube not being as thick obviously coming back to me thinking this is more of an AM than a Mone but if you look at that picture we’re going to see wind tunnel testing results on this how this how you can get this bike to be faster than the the current Mone you’re going to have to be creative and this is maybe maybe a route you go I’m a bit with you I don’t hate it I mean I’m kind of cynical about it because yeah this is how you maybe tick the box so Jesse and Chris say that it is actually as fast but if you think about it from a practical perspective I like this because it’s actually more practical for us cyclists than it is for a professional cyclist for for a professional cyclist the thing holding this back is the fact that you’ve got to get a bottle every certain period of time for for a stage race for us there’s very few races where you are actually getting more than two bottles so it actually works quite well for for the 0.4% like us that have had that sort of interest for sure yeah I think I don’t know audience will have to make up their mind on that one Arrow bottles pros and cons other thing just on this as well that came up on the videos is is the sticker thing so track controlling is with the stickers cuz they’ve done it looks like they put a sticker on that’s this silhouette amond Mone like overlay onto each other to try and make us confused about what it is which we I mean I think it’s I’m pretty everyone’s calling it The Mone okay so here’s what I’m thinking all right here’s what I’m thinking number one is brilliant marketing because now now we’re talking about it now Road CC have got a thumbnail about it and it’s trumped the dogma’s release because this is the whole thing oh my God what is it what is it fantastic brilliant and I’m sitting here saying it’s the Mone it’s obviously the Mone because because well peton wrote it Pet’s writing that in a Sprint stage he’s not going to write it a m in a Sprint stage so he’s clearly choosing his the arrow bike option that they have and so for me it was like a brilliant troll on everyone fantastic the problem is that your actions or your pro writer’s actions spoke louder than your like trolling sticker and kind of answered the question for everybody and everyone’s just calling it The Mone you got to H somewhere around all these people kicking around the junkets and the the pits you know enough people call it the Mone jeez that would be brilliant if they come out and it’s it’s not the Mone no it’s the Mond that’s the whole thing they they’re winding us up it’s the wond okay that’s the Mone but I want to go another I want to go upper level M what a track road bikes look like now y this is where I get this is disappointed this is where I get sad okay you’ve got the m so you go on the T’s website where they kind of outline what each model is the madone is basically the I will be going fast road bike this is what their lineup looks like now if you’re Road riding and you’re going to go fast or what you think is fast you buy them andone if you’re going to be riding slowly you buy the de Mane problem is they then say purposely they’ve purposely put in that it can do light gravel this was like second sentence in the description of the de man is oh it’s capable of light gravel de or that’s the de man right interesting so their endurance bike which is the de Mane is a urance SL also off-road bike that’s it that’s your road bikes there’s two what how is probably are we calling TR the biggest let’s track biggest top three bike brands in in the US have two road bikes it’s a scary thought man yeah what choice is that so I’d go further than that I I think they I think Tre are the biggest in my Western Anglo World Tre are the biggest bike brand in the world to me now that doesn’t play out in Sydney as such it’s probably third or fourth behind the other brands that we see but I I can I can legitimately remember when I started thinking about getting into Road cycling and that sort of stuff it was trek trek was the the brand that I completely thought about and you are right we have potentially lost another model of bike here I don’t know what this says about where we’re we we’re headed I mean I that didn’t make any sense I realized I just spoke in circles this is from a brand that had Mone amonda de Mani Mone h1.0 f h1.5 f they had like two it didn’t have like at least two GE trees of each bike now you’ve got Mone de Mane which is basically a gravel bike and then you’ve got the eoad bikes which irrelevant to me and and then gravel bikes which I’m not going to let them Count Their gravel bike checkpoint I think it’s called um all right well here here’s here’s here is a potential maybe we see a new endurance bike maybe maybe what happens this is the flagship race bike okay shut up it’s not a enough for us who cares it’s now more accessible for more people streamline their production blah blah blah blah maybe something now slots slots in between the mad and the de Mane because some something fills that defy space because the the de man is not that yep maybe something slots the the amond the Mone coming together those two sort of make way and move into that performan high-end that’s what you get mhm endurance Fondo people well here’s the D I don’t know but something slots in there that’s potentially one Route One route they go I mean look we we called this we called This months ago that when you reduce your SK use by 40% and we sat here and said that’s going to mean the end of actual bike models and everyone went no no no it just means they’re going to reduce the number of sizes that they do it meant that they actually reduced their bike models and here we are yeah but you’re paying top dollar well and you how how is it that the biggest brand has the least choices I mean h what meeting are they sitting around in in the office is going oh this is a good idea let’s give people two road bikes to pick from the same meeting they specialized no will specialized have more road bike models than Tre do because specialized have the sl8 the Athos they have the Athos and they have the ru so they’ve got a climbing bike now let’s see how long that lasts okay well for now as it sits here specialized have more Choice than Tre so how would what would I like to see then I would like to see in in an ideal road bike range for a brand full on AO bike like the P5 mixed Do-it all race bike like this would I put this is in the category or something like a canal Super 6 I would like to see a climbing bike as well like the Athos TCR or the TCR yep and then a race oriented endurance bike like the Giant Defy so that’s four road bike models then you can go into all road gravel I don’t care go for gold I would like to see four road bikes Tre have two and I’m on you know arguably the de is like half gravel bike so in my categorization they have like one and a half bike models um that’s for you know if you’re paying 20 grand for a bike if I if I’ve got 20 grand in my pocket and I’m going to my local bike dealer I would like that brand to offer those four types of bikes take a while I think specialized probably get the closest is so specialized re-released the venge and kept everything as they have it they would probably be closest although they I think their endurance bike is a bit more too too far towards a gravel bike but specialized probably closest to getting there any other brands you think of that kind of cover that well I suppose you could say SEO but then their endurance bike being the calonia I don’t know enough really about that that’s true so probably get close S5 uh they don’t really have the the one bike to their mixed race bike the Mond equivalent they don’t really have no and that’s the argument against the giant is that I would say their Propel is probably not as Arrow yep but yep yeah yep and that’s so that’s what I I like I do think that like the Mad Star Bike has a place and probably is the one that most people should pick but that’s that’s the point isn’t it because I cut up that reel of you talking couple of months ago about like who who are the bikes who are the brands designing bikes for which is you know is it the professionals who need this choice or is it the the consumers who arguably don’t need the choice because they’re not performing that actually changed my mind on that I’ve changed my mind on that because if I’m chapter two my opinion now is it would be fine for them to do a Do-it all race bike like the mad I actually think even I’ve and that and that’s why I’ve changed my mind is I think for pros who need the choice or the consumers if they have the cash who should have the choice I think in both of those cases they should have access to that four different styles of bikes uh especi if they’re going to a Big Brand I think it’s the boutique brands that can probably get away with doing the mix like an MV road bike sure do a you know cross a few different categories that’s my current take on it I don’t disagree with that yeah okay I mean just coming coming just back to this bike specifically for one second just maybe to finish up on it but um is there any would there be any because both of us are sitting here saying that it’s not Arrow enough is that ultimately what we’re saying you’ve you’ve no no no I think it does it does the it does the sl8 thing well we have to wait till see it probably does the sl8 thing fine I mean if this if but it’s not but it’s not an they don’t now don’t have an aab bike if you Jonathan Milan well that’s that’s you know sprinting at the freaking Juro at 75k an hour and Tre go oh here’s your new bike he’s probably going oh where’s my head tube gone where’s my where’s my like the tubes are half as deep like it’s not going to be as quick so you know if if if tour magazine put when tour magazine put this in the tunnel yeah but there’ll be some trick with the bottles or t magazine don’t t t magazine don’t play into that game okay you you get a number according to tour magazine and it doesn’t include any of that stuff see and then yeah so we’re down a rabbit hole that no no okay if two magazine it’s not going to be faster that’s yeah I mean I mean you can’t see Arrow but I can it’s look at it okay and that’s that’s where the devil will be in the detail of this clearly clearly this bike builds up has to build number one has to build up to 6.8 kilos M full stop can’t be anything more than that that’s clearly what we’re being sold here okay and then it can’t be slower than the current Mone can’t yeah but it’ll be it’ll be it’ll be fake the same speed and that’s because then you go okay 6.8 well why don’t you just take that give yourself a 400 grams to play with and just chunk out all the tubes and it’ll be faster and then have that as the arob bike because specialized change the game and as we said when specialized launched that sl8 and ditch the venge this is they’re the market leaders this is what now everyone will do the pros will have to write it right there’s I I don’t want to like name anyone but there are a lot of privateers that I’m thinking of that there is no way in hell they’d buy this bike because it’s not fast enough I’m not in that camp I’d probably ride it sure but there are people where this bike will not be high performance enough M and and for those people Tre do not have a road bike that they would buy and you’ll probably know who we’re both probably think of the same person and that’s kind of funny that a privateer probably wouldn’t buy this new Monda we patent that name just quietly I think we really need to patent that name um I mean half the people in the UK wouldn’t buy it no cuz they’re all you know ared I hate to sound too negative on it because I think probably for what it’s doing it’s probably a fine bike it’s just that when you’ve removed a bike and then you’re trying to sell us this it doesn’t you know it doesn’t really imagine if they release two track the the old Mone more arrow and then release this I mean what could we that would be like killer yeah and I always come back to that thing of you know for almost 10 years we were sold Arrow Arrow Arrow Arrow fatter heavier weight doesn’t matter and now I’m I’m told weight matters again and well let’s see the weight that’s the thing right is this going to match the weight of the old amonda the current amonda not not the you know they did that super the lightest production bike ever not that one but just the regular run-of-the-mill mid topper level L that you’d buy from this shop is this new one going to be the same way because then you’d get a bit frustrated because you go well you could have just re-released this and done a more Aro AA at the same way see Tre will I know what T will say when we say there’s only one road bike and we know they’ll do the thing with this particular bike where there’ll be quite a few you know they do heaps of models cuz this will be the I don’t know their naming protocol but you know this is like the sl8 or the sl7 or something and then there’s the iteration iteration iteration and lab 71 yes and then as it goes giant giant do the same thing where they do the lots of different models and it makes it way all the way down and then that’s where D will say well no we do have we’ve got lots of different models and you this trickles down and trickles up and trickles all over the place and there’s trickling happening and yeah and so that that will be definitely their their comeback and they do do that well I I do think they’re one of the brands that actually do the hay we’ve got the flagship model but here’s one that’s $6,000 cheaper and it’s basically it’s got a lower grade carbon it’s got cheaper components blah blah blah like you said we’ve danced around this issue but potentially this bike is more appealing to more people and I actually think it it will sell really well I mean it’s probably going to be more appealing to someone who walks into a trek store it’ll be more appealing to more people so from a Tre perspective and then you could maybe even argue from a consumer level perspective it’s going to be more successful which I’m still sad about but I still think is a fact proof that’s yeah proof will be in the pudding I can’t wait to see the numbers and spec releases at they come up with can’t wait to see what tour magazines say um and I can wait I don’t care anymore I’m done I’ve checked out I’ve checked out of the Mad release now I’m just doesn’t matter what they do y I think that’s a bit harsh and the only reason I say that is because the fact that they kept the iso flow to me makes it interesting and relevant and worth chatting about all right so today’s episode is brought to you by bikes online bikes on online are and online retailer your One-Stop shop for everything bike related now they’ve got a lot of brands on there so they’re definitely worth checking out Brands like PK Wahoo 100% Shram laser and they are the main supplier or the only supplier of the brand polygon in Australia and in the US and it’s that sort of brand in particular you want to have a quick chat about Jesse Yeah so it is polygon now last week I mentioned the Tambora g8x which is their gravel bike really good value comes with Shram rival axess which the electronic this week I just want to highlight an even cheaper version a almost better value version is the Tambora G7 comes with Shram Apex 1X 12 speed mechanical shifting 3,299 Australian I own a gravel bike it never sees gravel really good for commuting really good for training on keep the speeds down low I think that is a killer option and it is available in the US and Australia really competitive pricing you suggesting that The Mechanical group said is potentially more reliable in a gravel event Jesse maybe as we’ve seen potentially is yes fair enough um yeah so bikes online guys um they do also offer a 5% price beat guarantee free 30-day bike returns in case you’re not 100% happy with your purchase and free shipping on orders over $79 guys I’ll drop the link to the gravel bike down below so do go ahead and check it out and thank you very much to bikes online for supporting Today’s Show fellow YouTube channel that uploads videos to the YouTube platform we’re so sad every time noral does a video we’re just there what’s noal done sorry Jeff look at us but let’s be honest no let’s be honest his audience and that and us like that we kind of we do orbit the same Sun like far more than a I’m not going to name and well not name and shame but I just I’m more engaged into what NorCal is doing just because of the type of riding and racing that he does yeah whatever mhm so young NorCal has gone out and got himself a CDA sensor he got new sunglasses sponsor yeah we talk what’s we need to talk about that Jeff that’s may get you arrested in certain countries unfortunately and yes so he’s got himself a sensor and I saw the video well I didn’t even I I started to watch the video and I was so excited y I’m like here we go finally because I’m I’m pretty sure we talked about this at some point where we were saying why don’t bike reviews bike reviewers incorporate CDA sensor data in their reviews Jeff’s gone out got one yep fantastic what do you think you into this all this thing this is a random number generator yeah I reck this thing is this is plus or minus 50 Watts y I’m reading into this um no I’m just I’m just joking I I I don’t know what he was doing it’s like oh if you’re rid in the drops you’re faster um what about you well I mean what would you if he’s going to go he’s got this AOS sensor what should he be testing I he’s already done the does he just incorporate this into his own testing because he already does that Loop and he times it that’s what he’s done for all his other videos so does he just does he just do that okay what about take this more into into the racing world and you run it during a race and it becomes a way of him saying okay in this race I’m going to try and use as little I don’t know how this exactly works but like use drafting to the absolute premium of my ability and to show that on a graph to show how little energy I not instead of just using how much power I used in a race show it on a a CDA graph that the benefit of drafting and smart racing and moving up moving up at the right time and all that kind of stuff actually plays out in a race so so we’re almost taking this out of the the wind tunnel scenario and moving it more into a real world sort of scenario MH potentially there’s something around there like could you imagine watching a NorCal video of him at Alviso and it’s you’re getting live CDA values appearing on the screen and that then is shown because I do think that would be kind of useful even for just new races to realize oh okay so if I just sit in the wheel here look how much energy I’m saving that is I’m one board with that see that would be cool yes almost like yeah instead of just having your power D you have your CDA it’s like oh I came off the the wheel here and I went from the drops into the arrow hoods position and then you can see you could see that live change and then I slowly got into his draft and then the CDA changed I yeah yeah that would be that would be actually quite I don’t know interesting entertaining um that’d be a good one yeah the testing I don’t know I just some of this stuff is so finicky and yeah anytime you’re trying to do detailed testing in a real world environment like that just imagine the time that would it take as well yeah like you’d have to yeah I think between bikes is in I mean between whole the whole bikes like he did that test where he tested the wind space against the Scot foil I do think having the AOS sensor on there if it’s accurate would would probably add some value um so officially I’d like to know Hammer position on a bike okay what’s what’s the the least drag Associated like is the chest Mount cuz I always thought the chest Mount GoPro situation would probably be the least AO intrusive as opposed to just slapping it bang out in the front of your handlebars just as this big brick um yeah that was selfishly what I’d like to see okay world’s most Niche YouTube cycling video seven views that’s me watching it three times Shane Miller watching it twice so I think I’m more yeah I’m I’m going to wait and see on this one see what he can pull up with it I mean he’s a he does have a Jeff has a science background cuz he’s a geologist isn’t he works for something works for NASA so if he can sort of figure it out and find useful ways to give us some insights I think he’d be doing something that most of the other reviewers or people testing aren’t doing so uh I’m a fan of that if you can pull it off I was talking to someone about why this why don’t bu reviewers do this why can’t you just have a you know just like tour magazine you have a set CDA run that you do for every bike and supposedly it still is that random number generator issue that circumstances conditions still play such an impact that you might go test the Mond one day and the aerro the next day and the reality is that the numbers aren’t going to be valuable enough or standard enough to to Warrant them being published and have have any Merit so it sounds like we’re not really at that point yet one day I mean this is what you would have said about power meters it’ll get yeah it gets there yeah yeah any news on your bike yet are we allowed to talk about that oh it’s it’s um it’s still in the works I I so I’ve been speaking to uh the contact at the brand through through WhatsApp I could be AI as far as as I’m concerned I think I’m talking to a bot it’s just cuz it’s I ask for updates it’s you know it’s coming it’s coming through and so group said we got yeah yeah so so Panda Podium have come to the table there’s stuff in the post coming it’s just so you haven’t seen it yet you haven’t got it yes no no no the parcels I’ve got got the tracking number so all the components uh is all good that’s sorted it’s just this this Frame is um I’m I’m pretty sure it’s it’s probably getting laid up as we speak in a factory in Jam right now because I’m such a tall prick yes and it’s in China they just do the big frames last we know that from the history of devel like we rode almost an entire season one year and or Le PHS or Le Philips couldn’t get a bik1 was too big and they wouldn’t do it they had to actually physically make a different mold for they hadn’t planned to do that yeah I’d be interested though maybe in the next couple of weeks when this does arrive that we do a what you actually on the bike and we just do a pure spec like this is what Jesse chose to put on his bike yeah cuz it’s all selected and all the parts I’m I’m desperate to to to talk through it all you I can do a good two hours on that um so yes and that’s it’s like it’s specs and you’re we’re often criticized for like oh they just read specs and internet things like well that’s guys that’s how people buy how do you think people buy stuff and I mean that’s how I’m buying I I’m building this bike off what I want and then what the specs in the description of a product online says so that’s part of this whole experiment you and mostly everyone else doing the exact same thing yeah no that’ be good watch this space any other any other news I was cursing not having the bike already here on the weekend cuz we we raced the kinal as you talk about last week and my God that road was rough like the first 5 minutes I I passed you was a handicap so you’re rolling turns in the grp and I passed you like [ __ ] I wish I had a new bike this is [ __ ] it was just it was rough ass it was so funny like I can remember you going past and I just wish I just wished at the moment I was like oh God I wish all the diry rim break sick of fans that love Jesse Cole because he’s a rim break person would have heard that comment you’re dead right like it was like flat 45 km an hour cross winds and the road was like ch it was just rough as guts and yeah look I I wouldn’t say that my experience was delightful either but having 30 mil 30 MS of Tire underneath me was certainly beneficial I do have a 28 on the rear but like at my weight I’m kind of going gez 32s would be nice so there was that um so I I ran the helmet can I talk about helmet can I talk about that real quick I opt it out you maned up um couple of things so uh interesting supposedly not everyone watches the show I didn’t realize that yeah I know weird uh I I turned up and thought in my deluded narcissistic way that everyone would just be like ah Chris decided to run the helmet blah blah blah and there was quite a bit of that but then there’s also just normal people who just saw this weird old bloke with a with a Black Arrow helmet at a at a handicap and I forgot that it is actually you do get kind of weird looks and comments that uh are yeah kind of a challenge you do get the sort of like you do get that and that’s fine I I’m all for a bit hazing don’t don’t get me wrong and it was it can even and one last thing just on the vibe of running it one particular circumstance where there was a little split in the handy in now our section I was in the second part of the split and with the guy just in front of me turned to me and said use your bloody Arrow helmet and close the gap like and I actually did like yeah suppose that’s what I have to do uh I will say actual the experience of writing you could not have designed a more beneficial time to ride that particular helmet it was like 13 14° so not hot not cold uh windy and in this little world that was the helmet it did actually it was like the perfect scenario for that field of vision was fantastic because it like you’re basically down in the the drops in the hoods the whole time just nice good field of vision um yeah so all that kind of worked pretty well and I I do think there’s basically no climbing in this race but I do think there are few circumstances where I would come off the wheel to roll a turn and like you can almost hear it when you get into the right into the right position that it almost just sort of I’m not going to say it but just gives you a little you can’t see it but you can hear Arrow can hear Arrow yeah heard it from Chris Miller first and then I don’t know if we’re going to talk about Unbound but Loy Morton he wins Unbound with the arrow helmet and it looked it looked good on him I think it’s their color way yeah sort of just softens it a bit it’s it’s really terrible visually yes like I saw some photos of me it’s they’re almost Chuck out photos like they’re just so stupid and and in real in real life I don’t think it’s quite that bad it’s not as yes it’s not as bad phot yeah they just maybe it is just the black maybe I need to put the wrap on or I think it’s the color because I it it looked pretty good on Lucky Morton so I think we’ll have to figure something out with the yeah with the r it’d be cool to do I would say if you are considering buying this don’t go the black also from a safety perspective like I have so oh should I say this now yeah so I got hit by a car last week oh um that’s why there was no TCR update last week uh amazingly the bike is actually okay I’ll put up a picture of it and you can see but um yeah and over the Bonnet all the rest of it in the bloody helmet and so and the guy it was an awkward anyway the guy said he just didn’t see me right and it was his fault T-boned me and then the next day no not the next day the day after I was like I R I ran it again and and two more really close calls and I I don’t know it’s just I haven’t had close calls so long forgot what a close call was mhm and in the space of three days I had three close calls so I do think there’s something in just that black helmet it’s just invisible yeah y yeah get a more visible helmet for sure agree the the race the race yes um oh I bet [Laughter] you you you should have won that well I should have beaten you I think you you choked at the Finish there there was into the Sprint finish thankfully you know someone I I ran the GoPro save the date you had me there you’re ahead of me you just were on the wrong wheel but um anyway I uh there’s a few things I want to say about this first thing it’s bloody good to have you back doing a bike race I was buzzing on Monday by the way I do I do want to say that second thing is I reviewed your bike footage and shapo for running the bike the bike camera I didn’t which is pathetic and it’s my job to run a fing bike camera so don’t let me ever not do that again okay so well done on doing that you were freaking dropped on that last climb you were gone I’ll bring the footage up you are out the back days over coil done slop fist yeah you got back Y and it’s a testament to you as a stubborn athlete that you managed to get back so I don’t think anyone else behind you got back I’m pretty sure you were the last wheel last one and um we were still going hard at the front but there was at this point in the race we had become the front of the race so we started to race each other and attacks were going and stopping and so it was started to become more um stop starty but again you managed to get yourself back which is bloody good if I’d known at that point you were dropped I literally would have got on the front and rid yes no joke would have done it um but turns out can I go into that moment how how we for time yeah okay all right let me go into cuz it’s it’s there’s actually a technique to surviving a climb like that I’ve seen you do this so many times yeah so this climb was probably two and a half minutes so if you’ve got a climb that’s 2 minutes to sort of 4 minutes short sort of Punchy climb this is like a sprinters trick um so the technique is if you know that you’re in a group with with guys that are faster than you the most obvious thing to do that most people do is go into the base of the climb and the goal is I’m just going to try and stick with this group as long as I can if I blow I blow and I go down to 50 watts and that’s the day done that’s not the best technique so this is what what the sprinters will do and I just picked this up from watching sprinters come past me at the end of a climb is to not do that technique where you’re just holding the climber speed then dropping so you you let actually as you go into the climb probably with the group for 30 seconds and then if the Gap starts to open Just Let It Go ever so slowly so you you’re basically trying to avoid the point at which you basically reach maximal exertion and have to stop pedaling because if you do that in the middle of the climb you come to a dead stand still and you’re done so let the Gap open and you’ll see this on the video If you play the video like Gap just started to open but I’m not blown yet I’m going really hard but not using it’s the energy you’ve got energy systems that can give you about a 20 or 30 second push in power so I’m trying actively trying not to use that so you’re just on the limit holding speed and then you’re waiting until like the last 150 M of the climb and then you just force yourself out of the saddle and Sprint and hitting maximal exertion right over the crest of the climb that’s when you should be done free whe and it works for two reasons firstly because even when you’re on the limit you do have glycolysis and your ATP PC system that which can can provide a short burst of energy even when you’re ride on the limit like you’re doing V2 Max reps you can always get out of the saddle and just Sprint so you’ve got it from a physiological point of view and then also you’re kind of relying on the fact that the people at the front cresting The Climb are probably going to look around a little bit at the top and so if you hit maximal exertion after accelerating to the crest you’re already back up to speed fingers crossed you can just get back on and that’s essentially what happened so if I had gone and tried to stick with you I would have had to stop pedaling with probably 30 seconds to go on the climb and then it’ be done and generally it works better for sprinters because they have this huge glycolytic capacity that they can really just bang 20 seconds off um so if you’re doing a club ride or a race and you you know you’re not that strong you don’t always just play that card let the Gap open and be like I’m just going to wait almost for the crest and then Sprint I takes so much self-confidence though to to do that to to essentially almost let the wheel go and almost like prolong the the pain yes like it’s I I totally hear what you’re saying um but that’s a really challenging mindset to get into yes um oh yeah it’s it’s sort of easier to just go until you drop and then you just go oh well I just got dropped they were faster than me but there is and it’s one of the things with cycling like there’s probably a hundred of those things that you and I probably do instinctually that we don’t really ever explain CU you think bike racing is kind of simple power to waight power but there’s all little things like that that you’d probably been doing heaps of him in the race that you wouldn’t even think to explain well and the well the flip side is just me at the end there you can look in your video because I i’ never get results from circumstances like that even though I’ve and I’ve spoken to Dan about this I’ve phys physiologically tried to change myself into someone who could get a result from there and maybe can that doesn’t actually mean I’ve learned the skill set to get a result from a quote unquote Sprint like that and you can see me in the video there I float around and I kind of go in behind wheels and then I get chopped and hit breaks and it’s kind of day over I don’t know what I’m doing and there’s no way to learn that there’s no way to unlearn years of just getting to the end of a race and being oh well I can’t contest this because I got a Sprint of 800 watts you know now maybe I could fit enough to get fifth or something which would be nice yeah and I can’t I haven’t made that leap mentally yet it’s just a matter of I don’t know getting used to Bar you just like watch you float past me on the outside following a wheel whereas I’m off in some little traffic jam in my left yeah it’s but yeah well you got to yeah it’s yeah you got a practice I mean where you is this such a buzz like that’s such that’s just two hours of pure suffering like that’s just absolutely brutal but we only get to do that of’s a race like that on these days once every two or three months at best at like most like if you’re in like Belgium or the Netherlands you’re doing that twice a week yeah like you can see why the Riders get so good um and actually feel sorry like we’re lucky because we’ve been doing it for quite a long time they used to be more frequent in like 2015 2016 that there’s these fit guys coming up and they they literally say they’re like I’m really fit I have no idea what to do I I’ve never roll turns with 20 guys at 55 60k an hour and they don’t know there’s no way to learn that really and it’s I don’t know it’s one of the frustrating things with with road racing especially in Australia now is if that Gap to get good at it honestly if you’re not in Sydney or somewhere with group with like really fast good group rides like that how do you good at that I that exact conversation with someone who’s won a national crit medal Master’s National crck W and he just came to me and said I just never get to do this I never he he’d come from like sort of regional New South Wales and he’s just like we don’t ever get to do this I can’t travel to do any of these the next one of these isn’t until September no it’s it’s not another one actually so the next one he has to do is like a a another scratch race where he’s again same people but he hasn’t had any of this experience um it’s just it’s just so weird and again I don’t want to be a oh back in my day but it was like 2015 you were doing one of these every every sort of four weeks minimum no more from the sense that I I feel like it’s I have a massive Advantage like it’s not fair I am just better at this if it’s not that other Riders fault it’s just that they don’t get to do it that all but good Buzz good buzzz big big sh to and I will say this big um so I was parked actually right next to one of the traffic Marshals and like it’s just listening to that chat I can just see why these races die because you know there traffic Marshalls there and the cars are coming up and it’s it’s an open road but it’s got like an envelope on it so you can’t go a certain direction at a certain time and like these motorists are there and they’ve been informed about it and blowing up at this like the Marshall’s like well I don’t know I’m just like here telling you you can’t do that until Lego passed and you can just see like it only would take one or two of these people to call a local counselor and say [ __ ] don’t want them here that that race doesn’t happen so I don’t know thank you ilar Cycling Club everyone for making sure that happens because you know it’s not an a jewel of a venue by any stretch of the imaginations but it’s an hour and a half from Sydney thank you it’s amazing we can do some of these things and the trophy that’s the best trophy in Australian cycl that’s like a full GPS school private Boys Club trophy it was amazing oh cool it was a shield yeah all right uh Jesse before we go we are recording this on a Tuesday uh there was an incident today in Sydney on the roads um we don’t want to mention any names or anything like that but uh two cyclists and we’re aware that those cyclists at least some of them are very seriously injured and potentially fighting for for their life so we obviously our thoughts are with them their family and everyone involved and we hope for the very best yes please and hopefully we’ll bring you some good news next week uh thank you for your time today Jesse thanks Chris we’ll see you next week see you then