We NEED To Talk About Motor Doping | GCN Tech Show 335

Mechanical doping on the rise again? In this edition of the GCN Tech Show, Dr. Bridgewood and Alex go on a deep dive into the ongoing investigations of the possibility of pro-teams using hidden motors in their bikes! Additionally, Shimano and SRAM release new groupsets, and new aero helmets from POC seem to be turning some heads in the tech side of things this week. Finally, more interesting comments of the week and did your bike make it to the bike vault!?

On Today’s Show 00:00
Mechanical Doping on the Rise AGAIN? 1:01
Hot and Spicy Tech 16:03
SRAM Red AXS #AD 17:36 thanks to @SRAM
Comments of the Week 23:22
The Bike Vault 26:49

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welcome to the gcn tech show this week we need to discuss mechanical doping because new evidence has come to light which suggests that hidden Motors in bikes is a thing and we’ve also got hot Tech this week where we discuss the latest Shimano grx di2 group set we’ve got Wahoo integration with a new sham red group set we’ve got tires specifically designed for certain Wheels we’ve got kit to convert any bike into an ebike and yet another slightly outrageous Arrow helmet and if if we look quite tired it’s cuz we literally flew back from New York last night yeah you look great okay right before we do our main talking point yeah in case viewers are wondering why we’re in New York it’s cuz we were doing grand vondo New York yeah and we’ve got videos coming out on that you can see how we how we got on tuned super exciting right so this week we’re talking about mechanical doping something that you and I have actually been having a conversation about whilst on our latest holiday in New York um but yeah you’ve kind of been investigating it a little bit more than me and doing a bit more research so share some of this to start with and see how we’re now talking about well the reason why this has come back in into you know the Consciousness is because I’ve been listening to um a really good podcast uh by a friend and former a colleague of mine called Chris Marshall Bell it’s called the ghost in the machine podcast and I recommend you go check it out but that podcast is actually an an active ongoing investigation into mechanical doping and some of the things that have been uncovered in it and and shown in it are really quite alarming um and and so I felt it’s definitely worth us talking about it now mechanical doping to me seems absolutely outrageous and kind of so farfetched that in my head I want to say surely this like isn’t a thing surely no one’s doing it yeah and and I think that’s where I’m at as well we we’ve talked about it on the tech show before and yeah you just think no surely not like AB you know but then with what has been you know discussed in this ghost in the machine podcast and some of things it’s it’s actually changed my mind okay um quite considerably and it’s made me think that actually no there is probably a a very real uh possibility that that this is ongoing and it’s not necessarily what you think so I suppose the first thing we need to discuss right is how how is this a thing and what exactly is it so we’re talking about hidden Motors in bikes right we’re not talking about ebikes as such and the systems that are commercially available because well the batteries are massive the motors are massive it’s really obvious we’re talking about something slightly different where it’s not really like a widely commercially available product it’s much smaller it’s hidden it’s like a considerably less powerful device so that that’s a key thing so when you look at ebike systems they’re typically offering in the region of 250 to 300 watts of assistance now a pro cyclist does not need that and when you consider things that we’ve mentioned it before I think it’s a good yard stick 5 Watts on aldz to the average pro is worth more than a kilog of weight so you don’t need much power in order to generate a race winning benefit you certainly don’t need 250 W I think people might notice that yeah yeah so what the they’re suggesting is that the motors being used the assistance being used is in the region of sort of 50 watt Motors and that is sufficient so like I think we need to be clear on our kind of standpoint because we’re not we’re not sat here saying that everyone is cheating and that’s the thing cuz like let’s be totally clear on this there’s only ever been one case that’s been like proven to be that someone was found cheating right yes so this but the alarming thing was this was back in 2016 many of you will remember this and some of you will have probably forgotten but the only ever proven case of mechanical doping was uh the Dutch Rider FEMA uh vanesa who was in the junior cycle across worlds and she was found that her spare bike contained a viax assist motor which which was a commercially available product at the time right yes um that was and um that is a system that I’ve personally tried out and and used um and also s and Matt did a video Back in the Day using it you can check out um as they it must be back in the day if Matt was in it yeah but um but like when I used that system I found that it was a bit pant okay okay like it but the technology has moved on a lot technology changed but it was very loud it was pretty bulky it was actually if you knew what you were looking for it was very easy to spot that it was being used um and so I don’t think a system like that has necessarily been used or is definitely not currently being used at the top level of the sport but that again was a more powerful system that was something that could provide like 250 Watts or so so that was you bigger than what you need but the alarming thing right for me one that one case has been caught and proven but correct me if I’m wrong here but the first time the UCI ever searched for hidden Motors this was what happened they found one it was the first time ever I think it was the first bike that they actually checked as well which is very alarming an incredible coincidence or it was just a tip of the iceberg and then people started hiding it there have been accusations that people actually have used those systems and to to cheat in like Grand fondos and amate races and things which I think is highly plausible and but also ridiculous um ridiculous in the sense that why would you cheat in a like an amateur race like that is yeah I mean the like Risk versus reward thing sort of starts to come into it here but so a lot of what we’re discussing is based around speculation right yeah um there’s very little in the way of like hard facts and evidence here so what we are going to then continue to carry on talking about is what people are suggesting might be the case at the moment right and that’s far smaller systems potentially hidden into like the rear hub for example yeah yes and that’s when you look at how motor technology has advanced yeah you know you love RC cars I do love them great the motor technology around small little Motors it has tremendously advanced in the last 10 15 years to the point where you can get very powerful very small motors that could conceive fit into the back of a rear hub that could easily provide in the region of 50 Watts yes the torque isn’t massive and then you face a challenge of gearing it up although that would be possible with sort planetary gear systems such as what is found in the classified Hub when’re not saying the classified Hub is mechanical do careful careful don’t want but like that those sort of gearing systems are available well battery techs evolved as well yeah um but then what you what what you do have is the torque is less of an issue because you’re not trying to use the motor to get off the line where you need maximum torque once you’re pedaling at 90 100 RPM it’s like a bit of a boost right the torque you’re providing the torque it’s just giving you a boost on top with speed so it’s it’s that really and then in terms of the battery what we what what’s been suggested is that these systems are being made they’re not been seen in public they’re not commercially available yeah understand they’re being made by Shady characters who are and they cost you know tens and tens of thousands if you want one of these systems yeah um but they’ being made by Shady characters apparently there’s one such Shady character in um in Hungary who who’s making them okay um and yeah they um that they they then but there’s a couple of things that you need to overcome here like just talk just thinking of it in a common sense logical way right if you’re trying to have a little motor hidden in the hub you can somehow conceivably think yep you’ve squeezed it into the Hub body or whatever but that’s just one piece of it right you need to find a battery you need to have some sort of system to control it you need to have the motor connected to the battery which means if You’ got it inside a hub you’ve got to somehow have wires coming from The Hub into the frame where the battery is hidden then you got to control it and then you’ve got things like how do you go about doing wheel changes so then you ruled out a wheel change in a race and now you can only do a bike change yeah so that’s an interesting thing that’s covered is this this they were saying on the podcast that the the when you have a hubbas system the way you would do it is you’d have a battery that goes through the axle and then into the frame and then the battery is hidden in the frame but like you say that then means that you can’t do a rear wheel change because then it pulls The Wire yeah so the simple way around that is you just do a bike change yeah and we do increasingly see more bike changes and wheel Changers which is something that’s been attributed to the fact that that’s often quicker than changing a through axle because of disc brakes now yeah but but it’s like a perfect cover yeah I don’t think I can sit here and say but in terms of a battery charging it you can just be a Bluetooth battery connection and and Riders have B uh but buttons on their handlebars for additional shifters and things that’s not that’s no issue that’s easily sorted okay I mean there’s other systems that have been touted um are ones where or rumored ones and we’ve talked about this before in the texure a couple of years ago ones where you would have mag all around the wheel rim and then you would use electromagnetic induction with coils of wire such as well they’d have to be positioned on the on the seat stays or the chain stays and then through a battery in the frame passing a current into those coils of wire you can get the wheel to spin practically I think that that is a very convoluted system I think it’s quite although it’s mechanically simple that the hiding it becomes it all just seems like it just seems too far farfetch for me right if the UCI are searching for this stuff Sur they’re just going to find it we’ve got things like um they originally had x-ray machines then they had the iPads that would SC no they had the iPads first the iPads first scanning for like magnetic fields from the bike because if you’ve got a motor it’s got to have a magnet in it to work that kind of stuff so it it just doesn’t it just doesn’t all they they have introduced these Mobile X-Ray machines which are kind of like I think like airport scanner type technology where they pass the bike through and can sort of scan it and look what’s inside it and yes like you know these checks can find things um although they’re saying some of these motors aren’t detectable in in the little iPad check thing yeah but the the while they are checking things and like fair play to the UCI for bringing in these checks and and clearly you would think that this is a serious problem yeah by the fact that they have introduced these checks and are increasing the checks that they’re doing you I think at that point you have to start taking it seriously yeah okay that’s a valid point right but what what does emerge as well in this podcast is the fact that the checks seem woefully inadequate because yeah okay right it’s the effectiveness of these checks so and the implementation of them so apparently they were saying that they’re not they’re not checking well right so you need to understand they’re not checking every bike they’re not checking every wheel from point of view not checking at every stage they’re not checking at every race there are races where there are no checks there are stages apparently in last year’s Welter and Jiro they didn’t check any bike at any time trial arguably that’s the time when you would say a system like this would make the biggest difference as well especially when it comes to hiding a battery because in in the case of a time trial disc with a with a faed disc that’s a much easier place to hide a battery and a motor Jo it all makes sense it just all feels like too much like speculation on stuff feels farf when we’ve been to races ourselves we’ve seen UCI Checkers motor Checkers and I remember being at at the jro last year and seeing a guy just sat with his iPad chilling doing nothing and then he went up to a bike and sort of checked a random bike and then that was like it and and there wasn’t really a they weren’t going on the on the team truck and checking every bike and every wheel yeah and and so you know when you look on the back of a car there’s loads of bikes there’s spare bikes bike riders do bike changes Riders you know do wheel changes throughout a race I’m just I’m not accusing teams of cheating I’m just saying that if if you really wanted to do it it could be plausible it could be POS but I mean we like you said we both go to bik races we we see stuff I I see all the different bikes I go see the teams I pick the bikes up I look at them and like I just seems too far we’ve never seen anything we’ve had a we’ve had a lot of access no point have I ever looked at something and go oh that doesn’t make sense well that doesn’t seem right and I I mean literally when I was at the jir I went in two three different team trucks and they’re all it’s just normal stuff sat around I just logistically I feel like it’s near impossible but there has been one case of it proven so it clearly is possible well the UCI is is taking positive steps and they are uh upping the the checks that they’re they’re doing and they’ve employed former criminal investigator called Nicholas rensky yeah who’s now going to take take this on fight the good fight yeah which is good which is good we want that I applaud that yeah um but in terms of who’s actually cheating as well not necessarily what you think so I spoke to Chris about this so what um what’s the theory and what’s the approach here come on well he reckons that when well he’s heard sort of rumors from you know Riders and people who race and undisclosed sourcers and there have also been accusations of woring motor sounds coming from Riders on other Riders bikes these are stories that have been out there and people you know have been accusations um people are obviously very careful not to name names because without concrete proof you can’t just throw allegations you’re throwing yourself out there for for for slander and Lial yeah but he says that he’s hearing it it’s more often domestics okay rather than the star Riders who were doing this and the reason being that they are very reliant on doing a good job for the team to secure a contract yeah why it kind of makes well they need to put bread on the table Yeah I can see that and it’s and and but also they face far less scrutiny in terms of checks yeah because they’re not going to be the ones finishing on like the top step of the podium are they so then yeah okay but I don’t know I think it’s I think it’s interesting I feel like it’s like a massive can of worms that we’ve kind of opened up slightly but yeah I it’s a fascinating subject us um I I mean I would really like to try and investigate and see if we can get our hands on some kind of hidden Hub motor type thing I’d love to try and create my own one let’s see if we can build one you I don’t know um but nonetheless yeah it is interesting um I’m Keen to hear everyone else’s thoughts on this as well do you do you think it’s plausible are you a believer in I don’t know that this does happen just yeah it’ be interesting share your thoughts in the comments SE down below and um as always we’ll discuss it next week time now for hot spicy Tech and Alex yes there some new Shimano grx what are the stats oh I love the stats right um after a long long old wait Shimano grx d212 speed is now finally here so I made a video all about the mechanical 12s speed version when it launched last year and um this latest group set is now electronic and wireless it’s kind of taken the same ethos of what shimano’s road group sets have so you’ve got a singular battery and then it’s wired to the deras and then the the connectivity from the shifters to the deras is Wireless um so the shifters have also got a new shape and design to them which are kind of meant to match up with flared bars that’s like in the TR all the trend with gravel Racers u a lot of the components do crossover from The Mechanical group sets so things like the cranks the braks all of those bits and pieces of the chain the cassette effectively you’ve now got new deras and shifters which is kind of cool nonetheless um if you want to know everything all about the new grx of course SI done a first look video hasn’t he’s got his hands on it ages ago and he’s actually gone and raced on the bike using the new group set which I think is pretty cool right well he’s trying to qualify for the gravel worlds he is and we don’t want to give it away but I think he did all right don’t want to give it away go give it away I think you did all right anyway nonetheless right if you want to find out like weights prices all of the stats and details on it go check that video out basically uh so next up something to do with the new Shram red group set which we spoke about last week yeah now has Wahoo integration which means that there are little sort of hidden buttons I called bonus buttons bonus buttons that’s like the actual name of them brilliant yeah bonus buttons you can configure those now um to control your wahoo head unit yeah so when that is a cool feature so when SRAM red launched uh it also coincided with like a new hammerhead head unit and some Goodyear Tires which we’ll speak out the tires in a minute but the head unit functionality is also like able to be mimicked across on the W which is cool so you can use it to mimic the functionality of almost all of the buttons on the head unit by doing either a short press or a long press on the buttons to use the three buttons in the middle or the zoom in and zoom out as well which I think is a really cool feature and you also can see some of the gear data as well pretty neat and tidy um and the tires right was an interesting one for me so get this this is zip collaborating with goody year here to create tires which are tailored to their wheels which it feels a little bit wild saying that to me but interesting nonetheless what do you think about it we know that the tire rim interface is crucial for it’s absolutely crucial yeah so if that is possible to optimize that I feel that that is somewhere where you could eek out some extra performance I think it yeah but the counter argument and I feel this is where you I can I can sense it sense it sing out of you right we already kind of have this e t t t t whatever it is standards for tires where they have to be the same the like the exact same like dimensions and stuff yeah I think for the hookless technology there’s like really concise and specific industry standards that everyone’s working to and and it feels tricky to then say that you’re working to a better standard than that but nonetheless I think it’s interesting right so the new range of tires includes three different options you got the vector R z30 nsw which is optimized for the zip 353 nsw and then there’s also a vector R 730w and an r z7 and there’s also an rz35 S SW tire for the 303 firest rims um yeah I don’t know what else is to say about it but it’s interesting nonetheless uh Pok have officially launched their new helmet which we’ve seen quite a few races already this season and EF education easy post have been winning races on it um so that’s a good endorsement isn’t it for product SI spotted as SE as well and did you see the Speedy walked out when he put that H wow well it’s it’s called the pren air or is it proen I’ve no idea it’s either called the pren a or the proen air and yeah it’s quite a distinctive looking helmet s War SE otter it kind of half covers your ears and it has a visor I feel like it’s a halfway house between a Time TR helmet and a road bike helmet um yeah so big performance gains performance gains I’ve got the stats because you know I do the stats yeah the performance gains are typically ranging from 5 Watts at low speed to 18 Watts at high speed so according 30 60k according to Pock yeah let um yeah I mean if if that’s if that is the case 18 Watts at high speed 60k an hour that’s huge just on a descent or whatever that’s still massive um like we say five Watts at low speed you were just saying earlier five Watts on Al doz is hugely significant so if this is true then it is a big visually like I got to be tell you the the tech and the idea behind it like some of the other time TR helmets we’ been speaking about lately I’m all for it but visually purely from a visual point of view it’s it’s not doing it for me if I’m honest yeah but I don’t know you’re not wearing it to look cool you’re wearing it to go fast right yeah yeah and prices anyway uh 400 360 or $450 Canadian dollars let’s just add that in there as well well yeah we got a lot of Canadian viewers the weight is actually uh well it’s not necessarily important but something we should mention 350 gram for a size medium [Music] 2,999 Danish croner oh actually I was just going to say that on next for the Danish fans out there right okay then on to the last bit in hot Tech um we should briefly mention the new Switch go kit which is available and we’re actually going to be making a video on gcn about it but I thought it was an interesting bit of tech to mention nonetheless because as I said the start of the show it allows you to convert pretty much any bike into an ebike which I think broadly speaking for the cycling Community could be a good thing yeah well if it enables more people to get on bikes in a low cost way yeah that’s good and it and it makes cycling more accessible if you live particularly in a place like where we live in bath yeah or maybe San Francisco where it’s very very hilly that can be something that inhibits people who are beginners getting getting going yeah now as a company they’ve already been making ebike conversion kits but they got a couple of new on out which is obviously what we’re going to take a closer look at but essentially if you’re not familiar with it it converts your bike to an ebike by replacing the front wheel and then adding a battery on and then using a sensor to monitor your pedaling so that it can all work correctly um so if you want to see more about that keep your eyes peeled And subscribe to gcn And subscribe to gcn Tech right more hot Tech next week time now for comments of the week your comments on videos that we’ve had last week right so first up it’s on our uh well don’t make these mistakes when buying a used bike video Seattle uh Gurley says remember private sale isn’t the only way to get a good used bike many local bike shops sell bikes that have been checked over I got mine from Pros closet here in America and I felt confident I was getting a quality product sure it costs more than a dude in a car park but they checked the records did a full service and I got a warranty that’s good point Point that’s a really good comment I like that it’s good to share that information with everybody um Tony Bob 5209 says fair play GC and a few points I’d not considered especially when I’m interested in purchasing an early 1980s classic road bike oh he says he’s got a question here added into his comment um could we do a video on the best trackers and anti- theft devices like including DNA bike tags um well yeah we probably could maybe something we could look at do in the future yeah I think we could there are we did say that in the show where we were talking about we did talk about it in a recent gcn uh Tech show um so yeah that could be a worth one to check out I think it’s it’s called like thieves hate this um then the other video we got some comments from is all about Hank on his recumbent bike right yeah because he thinks this bike is going to make him faster than anybody else so if you want to find out check the video out um but JC 74435 says if Iron Man triathletes find out about these it’s going to be wild I mean complete agreement yeah um D1 N2 says good luck with UCI approval well they have no jurisdiction here not a castle when he W racing that’s for sure um and then underneath the last week’s show uh Steve yanu 1041 144 says I bikes pass Alex and Ollie a few hours ago on River Road under the George Washington Bridge in the one second I had to decide what to say all I could do was point and say Alex and fin Al and apparently we did say high back which is great news um it was actually really cool seeing loads of people out of New York that I enjoy yeah and they said that was nice of them I hope they’re getting recognized isn’t annoying enjoy uh gfny um no it’s not annoying is it it’s I think it’s incredible it’s what’s amazing for us is that we can go to the other side of the world and there’s people who know who we are it’s ridiculous but it’s just it’s glad like really nice as well to see that people uh support the channel and like what we do well this is the thing cycling Community is incredible and that’s what it’s all about um one other comment from the show which um is from cake is fun one great username great love that they say what about running a classified system and a front deria I was talking about this the other week to you I think we were talking about on the plane as we flew to New York that’s just how exciting we are great fun at parties thinking super low gearing for super steep hills bike packing and long days out while maintaining steps between shifts yeah so I I the thing I was thinking about would go classified Hub and then triple chain out front you have like literally all of the gears all of the gears yeah all the gears maybe no ideas right and S aside for the bike Vault uh where’s the B bike Vault where is it I’ve got it I’ve got it okay the bike Vault you can upload pictures via the uploader which is in the link um in the description down below and then we the judging to be nice nice or super nice if they’re super nice we ring the bell right uh first up this week we have a Ridley Noah fast it’s got sham Force Access One by on it what do you make of this apparently they live in they live in Flanders in Belgium love it as long as the lever is not getting scratched on the wall but as you say every time it’s fine that’s fine um yeah I can’t that’s are super nice yeah super nice valves match the frame as well big deep balls in there uh next up uh is from garden of zero Canyon inur CF SLX 7 50 mil into their first ever Century ride wishing their legs are the power of the nuclear power plant in the background yeah love those uh it’s it’s a little bit dark bit shaded on some of the bike but nonetheless it’s cool I love there’s a nuclear power plant in the background like someone goes I’m going to go a nice ride somewhere where could we go oh cycle to the nuclear power PL look it might be there might be absolutely banging route to get there yeah who knows right what about the bikes get us see on track uh slightly JY angle slightly JY angle yeah the vals are aligned it’s in the correct gear how’s it propped up Shadow stand only thing possible I mean I cuz I cuz I like nuclear power a nuclear power plant and just like all the chemistry involved in that I’m I’m swayed to a super nice super nice Rusty on the Bell there um next up is from Steven CRA is marid at Goodwood 20 20123 marid scur 6000 di2 ready oh ready to be put through his Paces a track at goodward oh um hopefully the bush isn’t scratching the paintwork on the frame otherwise a cool picture yeah can we let that slide if it’s like literally half in the bush I mean no it I’m going to what I’m zooming in to see what kind of bush it is because if it’s like a Hawthorn absolutely not let me guess you know exactly what bush is I don’t I’m not I mean I’m not an expert when it comes to bushes if you say so um but like Mike’s laughing why is mik laughing unbelievable why is it right anyway come nice or super nice unbelievable oh nice or super nice come on that is a that is a a super nice super nice and the bush is good too right um next one in is from beta Yano WKA 111 nice oh it’s the wrong way around Wrong Way Around nice and it’s got a chimney and that saddle bag he like what’s going on with that it’s a bit droopy droopy saddle bag and there’s a load of like excrement on the on the seat tube look okay terrible sorry just a nice close though rubbish um you that’s you’re very negative there yeah don’t like that one okay right I’ll apologize on behal of Felix Gibson 1510 next Marie the reacto picked a bike up from a friend back in October and spent the winter sourcing all the parts from eBay and Marketplace ah so hope this is a good value bike build done by then I like this Mega yeah um the the design and the colors and the paintwork do just really remind me of that era of bikes I want um I want to say like 2000s or maybe I what I commend about this is is like you know he’s say he’s built up all the parts and he’s you know doing it that’s great and he’s made good component choices 105 105 he’s got some good uh GP 5000 tires on there groups other people yeah rate it I mean a couple of couple of moot points yeah come on saddle’s a bit grubby but used component so got a bargain yeah pedals white pedals are a bit grubby cranks the wrong orientation as well but I can let those I can let that slide because the effort that’s gone into it yeah there’s a lot of effort gone into that yeah nice backdrop as well yeah and it’s a nice bike super nice super nice okay right last one for this week is from n. much more0 to um what is this bike oh uh I’m trying to look what it is I can A9 suran Force ASA power pedals uh cool picture Arrow it’s a great sort of uh cool location backdrop yeah right there’s not there’s not too many unnecessary accessories it’s in the correct gear the valves are almost aligned do I feel like I want to be kind and let this one slip through yeah I kind of do but it’s just I don’t know like the sort of Shrubbery and low wall is I’m just not I don’t know just the it’s the Shrubbery anything about the bike the shrubber is just oh you Dilly down too long super take too long right that’s it for this week’s show we’re be back next week with recharged batteries hopefully no longer jet lagged yeah come on um if you did enjoy the show give it a thumbs up let us know in the comments section down below what you think of um like motor doping and if it’s actually a thing in your opinion I’m going to go sleep now okay right love you bye bye