H&F Climate Change and Ecology PAC | 6 February 2024

You can find the agenda and other details about the meeting on our website:
https://democracy.lbhf.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=640&MId=7508

I am the chair of the climate change and ecology policy and accountability committee before we begin there’s just some housekeeping um notes wants to cover let’s see the meeting is being live streamed on YouTube by taking part you are consenting to being recorded um please can officers introduce themselves before speaking for

The first time and would everyone please use their microphones the person button um there is tea and coffee and biscuits available in the staff kitchen next reception and the toilets are on my left hand side um you will need no you won’t need security badge to get in the

Kitchen the kitchen’s open I believe okay if the fire alarm sounds either continuously or intermittently I will adjourn the meeting please leave the meeting in an orderly fashion by the staff exit which is behind me to my right officers will direct you to the assembly point in Riverside Gardens okay

Okay let’s proceeded to the agenda um apologies for absence we don’t have any apologies so councelor James must be running a little bit late Declarations of an interest um as the chair I would like to declare a non-pecuniary interest in item five flood risk and adapting to climate

Change as my basement kitchen was flooded in July 2021 um going forward the minutes of the last meeting the members agree the minutes of the meeting held on the 21st of November very good agreed um and let’s move on to the um the budget the medium-term financial

Strategy um councelor Rowan re would you like to introduce thank you very much chair um I’m aware that we’ve got uh we’ve got a number of people here for the the following item so I’ll try and keep this keep this brief um obviously these are very difficult times to be trying to put

Together a budget in local government despite to this uh We’ve managed to put together a balanced budget that not only uh protects the services that we know residents um value and rely on but uh also invests in uh new Services as well 10.7 million pounds of additional Investments now that’s only been

Possible because of the ruthlessly financially efficient approach we take to managing budgets here in hamers Smith and Fulham and the continuous uh process of Reform that we’re constantly going through now I’ll touch on all these things briefly uh in a moment but before I’d just like to start by by thanking a

Few people um I want to thank uh James and the finance team who’ve done an excellent job uh in helping to put this budget together this year I want to thank cabinet colleagues like like Wesley and uh and and the officers within the various departments like Kelly and gram who’ve done remarkable

Work in terms of managing spending so efficiently over the past year uh and uh still finding savings um 14 years into the uh the into austerity um this is a difficult time to be working in local government Finance anyone who’s opened a newspaper or turned on the radio will have seen some

Of the horror stories from around the country whether it’s places like woking Birmingham or Nottingham we’re issuing section 114 notices essentially saying that they’re they’re unable to meet their financial obligations um one in five councils this year say that they they expect to issue a section 114

Notice um so that really does show you the the dire state of local government Finance at the moment and the the the significant lack of investment that we’ve seen over the recent years but I wanted to start by reassuring any residents who are who are watching this

I any residents who come to you as members of the committee um who are concerned about the services that they rely on from the council hamers withth and fham council is in a good situation financially uh last year we managed to run a budget surplus we we underspend

Against our budgets and at a time when most people are taking money out of their reserves we actually put uh additional funds in we started this budget setting process um with a budget gap of 25 million pounds that means before spending a single extra Penny on

New Services uh we had to find 25 million pounds worth of savings and that shows the the scale of the challenge that we’re facing year on year um and that’s in conjunction with the fact that since 2010 uh we’ve seen a reduction in our grant from government of 56% in real

Terms uh but despite this we have managed to put together a balanced budget this year we’ve managed to protect the services that residents rely on that residents value uh and also those extra services that make Hammer Smith and fullam unique those things that they don’t do anywhere else things

Like free home care things like free breakfast for primary school children things like our local law enforcement team now that’s only been possible because of the ruthlessly financially efficient approach that we take to managing budgets and as I say through our continuous process of public service reform I often think that the second

Part is my job title the reform element is just as important as the first now there are three different reforms I’d like to um just touch on this evening uh firstly technological reform I think in ham and fulam we really are at the Forefront of embracing technology in local government uh we’re using

Artificial intelligence in our adult social Care Service we’re using robot ICS and automated processing as part of our revenue and benefits team now that just makes sure that all our services are as efficient as they possibly can be uh and they are delivering the services that residents need as effectively as

Possible uh secondly organizational reform so there are four big uh council-wide reforms as part of this budget uh we’re taking a cross-service look at how we use property as a council uh commercialization whether there’s any opportunities for us to be making additional uh additional in the the Staffing across the council uh and

Finally our use of data um and how we we manage it and avoid silos uh as a way of working finally policy reform so as part of this budget we are funding um initiatives like family hubs now this is a great way to take Services out of the

Town hall and into the communities where people uh actually use them so this is a way to make the council more accessible make our services more accessible uh and more effective for residents um I’m going to hand over now to to James who’s going to talk through the uh the budget

Setting process and then I think we’re going to hear a little bit more detail about the environment Department in particular thank you very much James Newman Assistant Director of Finance here at London bar ham Smith and FM just going to talk you through um sort of about a corporate level the

Budget for 2425 and our approach um I will start by outlining our strategic operating environment so the kind of The Wider context of of kind of what what we’re operating within the object the objectives of our financial plans and delivery strategy a proposed the proposed budget for 2425 and how that

Was built and the medium term forward look so um the Strategic operating environment will be pretty familiar to most I think um there continues to be significant economic turbulence in terms of higher inflation and interest rates as a result initially of the war in Ukraine and the banking the base rate as

We know is now at around about five and a quarter perc having been at record lows for incredibly long time there also is obviously pressures on household budgets as a result and we’ve seen unemployment and a fall in real incomes we’ve seen new legislative burdens such as the environment Act and

The social regulation act and we’ve also seen within the sector increasing regulation notably off log the CQC which inspects things like our social care provision and the housing Ombudsman which has been looking at our obviously our our housing stock and and the condition of that there is also great

UNC certainty um within local government um funding uh notably around um the fair funding review which was due to coming in 2014 which looked fundamentally how local government um funding is allocated which never never never arrived um and we continue to wait for that um I think that

2425 is also the sixth year in a row of Sy one-year settlements which means that local government has no is really on the 12-month hamster will um and doesn’t really have any any any kind of ability to kind of plan beyond that one-year window which is is which makes things

Very difficult um and there is also things like social care reform which has been sort of delayed as well so there are a number of things that we’re waiting for that haven’t quite arrived yet locally we also have a number of major regeneration projects in the bar

That need to be completed notably Civic campus Hammersmith bridge and our various housing developments such as harop and lanoi there are a number of objectives that we have against that that that we work with with when we are put putting together our financial plans um notably fundamentally protecting our

Statutory services so really you know looking after vulnerable people that that really you know things like our demand L pressures and I’ll come on to that in a second delivering services that are valued by residents businesses and visitors and Council has talked about things such as the um the Le team

Uh which you know are very much valued by by by by residents ensuring the safety of our residents businesses and visitors promoting Pro prosperity of the burrow being an agile modern and Innovative Council so again Council talked about the AI and kind of working using technology to actually make us

Become more efficient and also maintaining strong financial governance and resilience so as we all know the section1 officer the Director of Finance needs to sign up a balanced budget as a legal requirement each year um and that is obviously a fundamental requirement so in terms of our our

Strategy to deliver our financial plans we’ve delivered efficiencies of 1180 million since 20145 through either savings generation or increasing income in addition to our general fund budget we have generated Sil section 106 Resources with with a balance of over 100 million at the moment so that

Actually helps us to kind of support our both our revenue and capital expenditure um we recovered Service delivery costs from fees and charges where we recover recover the cost of of delivering that that function to the tune of around about 60 million we secure resources through National programs we collaborate we we work

Collaboratively across the public sector so with Partners such as the NHS um we use considerably modern it systems to actually provide service delivery and again just as I’ve mentioned we maximize use of new technologies such as Ai and analytics with a sizable business intelligence team within the

Organization so in terms of the budget build and our our proposed strategy for 2425 which is which forms the budget report within there there are key principles inflation is something that we’ve talked about already and um within the budget strategy for 2425 pay was accounted for at 3% and

Price inflation at 5% so this reflects kind of high higher inflation levels than we’ve seen previously there is Major investment for the delivery of council priorities and I’ll come on to that in a second in terms of where that’s actually been uh where that’s actually been covered there

Is a council tax proposed increase of 2.99% plus the uh flexibility of using the adult social care precept of 2% meaning an aggregate increase in coun tax of 4.99% we had the national Revenue Grant settlement on on the 18th of um December as part of the local government Finance

Settlement so that’s central government funding to us we’ve we’ve anticipated growth in our council tax base in terms of the number of properties that we actually have within the burrow again that drives income we’ve maintained resilience within the budget by retaining contingencies that we hold in the budget for unforeseen

Circumstances and we’ve also ensured that we’ve got enough revenue revenue budget to fund the capital programs to the cost of capital told that it was within Revenue in terms of council tax considerations you will know that we have we have one of the lowest nationally with a band band the

Equivalent of 871 in 2324 meaning a 1% change is estimated at around about £870 per anom per household we have 93,000 dwellings in in the B of which 4% are exempt from council tax a further 11% will be fully protected through Council the council tax support scheme a fur just over a

Quarter will receive the single person discount of 25% leaving around about 58% that will be expected to pay the council tax bill in for national government has also indicated that there will be a flexibility to increase council tax by 5% each year until 2728 including the adult social care

Precept although we take the decision to do that the flexibility on on an annual basis depending on the budget position it’s also worth noting that where we are increasing our council tax of 2425 I think pretty much every other London buer is doing so as

Well so in terms of the summary of in terms of the summary of our proposed Revenue budget for 2425 um obviously we balanced 2324 in terms of changes for 2424 have we put in pay and price inflation at 3% and 5% of 13.7 million there’s been investment in Services growth in a

Budget of 10.7 million L govern on the minute to explain where where that has been where that has been targeted there are efficiencies and savings of 8.1 1 million and then there have been other reductions in the budget covering things like um interest on balances so additional additional

Investment income and also a reduction in our concessionary fairs charge which just reflects usage data so these things have actually meant we’ve me meant that there have been reductions in the budget requirement of 12.3 million and then the 4.99% council tax increase including the adult social care precept drives at 4

Million increase and that gets us to a balanced budget in terms of the .1 million of savings um that that’s really the breakdown there so what you’ll see there is is a combination of savings across all of our our services notably with an adult social care 2.1 million Children’s Services environment Services economy

And finance so all all all directorates all services contribute to it and that’s why it is absolutely a team effort and um you know it’s a it’s a corporate effort as well so you know we’re already beginning to look at 25 26 you know s now to start kind of working up Target

Working up plans putting that time T table together to consult with cabinet members etc etc so it is a kind of it is a an ongoing process and as I’ve mentioned there’s 10.7 million of growth allocations so Home Care was obviously a major major um service within the baron we’ve actually

Increased um Home Care budget by 4.2 million there are also um budget increases for a number of other demand demand Le pressures notably the transitioning of of children to adults social care services temporary accommodation in the burough Children’s School transport um H um general fund mechanism we’ve actually um rebalanced that so

Housing so the the general fund charge to housing is 1.7 million less family hubs and other smaller growth allocations reserves is obviously an important part of our balance sheet and reserves are there for really for timing purposes where we know we’re going to need money in the future also for unforeseen circumstances and

It’s fair to say that our reserved cover is adequate is adequate in current per in current times and comparable to London authorities we estimate our general fund Reserve to to to to a forecast to reduce to about 92 Million by 2728 so we will continue to have a a relatively good

Level of reserves over the medium term based on our current forecasts within that we hold a recommended minimum General balance of between of 21 million which is with with within the tolerable amount of 19 to 23 million we’re not actually applying any general reserves against our budget for

2425 either so weas some borrowers will be using general Reserve to actually balance the budget we’re not doing that we are only using in a very small amount targeted earmark reserves for things such as it upgrades so there there were no General Reserve there was no General reserve us for

2425 in terms of the medium-term forward look we continue to what operate within a difficult environment so obviously inflation and interest r R remain difficult to predict and that will be a major consideration for looking at 25 26 and Beyond as we actually refresh the medium-term financial strategy there remains that increasing

Level of national regulation inspections which drives cost and scrutiny um there are continuing local demographic pressures across our four demand across the key four demand L pressures namely adult social care children’s social care scnd transport and temporary accommodation which is starting to spike for us I think we’ve

Seen that in major we’ve seen major overspending other other Burrows upwards of 20 million in places like Enfield um and we we we’re not seeing seeing increases of that magnitude but we are starting to see an increase and that’s something that we’ll be we are monitoring closely we’ve got an average forecast

Budget Gap stated here of around 12 million perom but I expect that to increase when we’ve actually finished rerunning the numbers 4 2425 so I think that that will that figure will definitely increase further and that will drive the uh the statements requirement 42425 so next steps and we had the policy and

Oversight board last mon last Monday last last Monday pack committees obviously this week this week and last week and that that means we we then go on to cabinet on the 12th of February with full budget Council on the 28th of February and that ends the slide deck

Okay thank you um I think we’re gonna go on to you chair we just waiting for the slides to up yeah thank you thank you very much chair my name is Bram K I’m the Strategic director of environment and I’m going to give you some highlights of the environment Department’s budget especially

Highlighting the things that impact on this committee thanks next slide uh this is a colorful slide it gives you a sense of all the activities that take place in with the environment Department uh you know the man of transactions the scale of the operation and I always think it’s useful to get a

Remind us of of all the activities that take place and how much work that happens within the environment Department okay next slide this slide just highlights some of the achievements that are relevant to this committee um starting off with we got the launched the largest ever local quity green Community investment scheme

With A5 million pound Target uh that’s cheaper borrowing from more traditional means and maximizes the opportunity for Community engagement and support for hammi Fulham green aim we’re also minimizing waste and increasing recycling rolling out of food waste collections to 50,000 Street based households Wheels bins for properties with sufficient space we’ve got the

Highest concentration of electric vehicle charging points in the UK and the largest concentration of air quality monitors in Europe we’re recognized by UK divest as amongst the most successful local Authority Pension funds in divesting from fossil fuels we also promoting active travel creating a legacy of cyle trained young people

Delivering bikeability for families and green local deliveries through Parcels not pollutions cargo bike scheme we’re also recognized as leaders in environmental action a rating from carbon disclosure projects for transparent and bold climate action and commitment next slide this slide basically summarizes um what the environment Department’s budget

Is made up of there’s about 50 or so budget managers looking after about 80 plus services within the environment department and managing a revenue day-to-day budget of 109 million pound uh with an income of 80 million and it’s and that’s across fre service directors as indicated in the table

Below so in total we’re spending 109.2 million expenditure and we’ve got 80.4 million pound worth of income giving a net budget position of 28.8 million pound in terms of implications relevant to this pack the climate change and ecological team budget sits within the environment Department there’s no

Proposed changes to this budget for 2425 aside from inflation uplifts the role of the team is to influence spending Across The Wider Council to ensure that spending is aligned with the council’s clim and ecologically aimed um and you’ve heard about how much um you know opportunity there is but if you look at

The spend across the whole Council the team is focusing also in securing external funding in order to maximize climate action at least at least cost to the council next slide in terms of strategic budget issues um obviously the one at the top of the list is significant funding requirements for addressing

Climate and ecological emergency we’ve got Hammer Smith Bridge working work undertaken at risk pending confirmation of funding from DFT and tfl we’ve got waste disposal savings from new waste collection Services may be insufficient to cover service cost and we also got significant National inflation pressures impacting on service

Spend EG energy and fuel and current service contracts we’ve also got potential National Public Finance pressures impacting on Pacific Grant funded Services uh Services uh funding that we get from tfl and we also got continuous pressure on income uh with a target of 80 million pound income Target you can

Imagine that a lot of this income could be quite volatile and then lastly we’ve got ongoing pressure in challenges to secure funding for the corporate business plan objectives I think that’s the my last slide thank you very much thank you very much um would anybody like to ask any questions of

What we’ve heard so far uh councelor Mountain thank you chair and I first like to thank councelor re James and brah for such a comprehensive report and particularly Bram for uh his name check and comp complimentary mention of the divested pension fund which he knows is

An issue very close to my heart um I’d also like to compliment uh the team on the local Authority green investment scheme and ask if they could provide a short detail on the timeline for the scheme and the plan Planned projects to be funded yeah thank you very much I’m very

Happy to uh to pick that up so the Hammersmith and Fulham green investment scheme is the largest ever green investment scheme of its kind um we’re looking to raise up to5 million um in order to fund uh climate change projects across the burrow um the first tranch of the investment has has

Gone out that went out in November looking to raise up to a million pounds um the the closing date for that first tranch is actually uh is the 13th of February which I believe is is next week um we’re really proud of this scheme you know uh it’s been tried in other

Buroughs before but never quite on this scale so this is five times larger than anything uh else that’s that’s been done elsewhere um we really think of it as a win-win win you know it’s a win for for residents who choose to to invest in this they can get a a long-term low-risk

Investment of 4.85% uh it’s a win for the council because as we’ve heard it allows us to borrow at a slightly more competitive rate than we would otherwise be able to borrow for for these projects uh and most importantly of all uh it’s a win for the environment because it helps us

To put in place measures to um to both combat and to mitigate climate change here in ham Smith and Fulham in terms of uh the what the money will be spent on we’re looking at a range of issues firstly um renewable energy so potentially putting up solar panels and

Things like that across the burough uh we’re looking at um climate change mitigation measures perhaps flood defenses and then um measures to promote active transport so we’ve already seen a number of bicycle hangers um planned and uh to be to be put up across across the B thank

You thank you do you have a followup now you okay just thanks for such a comprehensive response um can I jump in and ask about grants how many grants per year are does do we compete in and um and how successful are we in in um winning

Grants and um and how how how often are we planning to apply for Grants this year particularly for climate change thank you very much chair um the short answer to that is we try and apply for every single grant that is available um subject to resources being available

Etc to actually apply for the grant um so we’re quite Keen we’re always on the lookout for any Grant applications most of the grant applications come with quite strict uh sort of rules in terms of how you spend it on what you you know whether there’s match funding or not so

Um there is a continuous process of going through that all the time we can get better at it by actually doing more feasibility work at risk Etc so when we got more large capital projects we could probably do more work uh in order to prepare for that uh but generally

Speaking we we we take every opportunity I’m always on the lookout for any opportunities where we can actually apply for for money um because that’s what we need yeah that’s fantastic thank you I should have said Thank You councilor re um Kelly and James and and brown and everybody’s been fantastic uh

Do we have any questions councelor Fon thank you uh thank you councelor and officers for your reports very informative I have a couple of questions uh firstly paragraph 24 regarding the review of parking services and the use of anpr tech given this review may I ask

How much of the budget revenue is from neighborhood findes uh yeah like I’ll pick that up um so um parking Revenue isn’t something that you can raise for General funds you know all money raised from parking Revenue uh goes back into the service and so it doesn’t really feature in

Terms of our budget planning would it be possible to get any income from parking is ring Fen it can only used for matters like highways and environmental issues it cannot be used as part of the general fund so that’s why it’s not in included but could we get a

Figure uh yeah um just to say they parking account figures are actually released annually and and that’s how we normally release all the figures because they have to be audited and vetted Etc as part of that process so when they’re released I can forward them to you so thanks including these specific can

Figure can fine figure yeah it will include what uh the figures that it normally includes yeah thank you very much thank you um par another question paragraph 45 states that the bur has the biggest concentration of air quality monitors in Europe why then has no air quality data from these monitors been

Put on any literature regarding the Clean Air neighborhood including any of the readings from them thank you very much for that um air quality monitoring first is quite a complex process um but there will be there is a upcoming cabinet report on southam that will be will present some

Air quality data in that which will come from these uh air quality monitoring stations well thank you it’s just disappointing that it’s taken so long and a final question so in the cabinet report Which is far more extensive on the environment side page 189 it says the slippage this quarter

Mostly relates to a temporary pause of the clean their neighborhood program and that a meeting for the end of November will settle the future of the scheme given nothing has been budgeted past 2425 are you in reality about to abandon this scheme sorry when when you say the

Cabinet report um uh can you let me know which one you’re referring to so page 189 of the cabinet paper for the meeting on the 12th specifically the section on environment that’s the appendix you mean um so well I can give you a very simple answer to your question and no we’re not

Find the amendment as far as okay so may I ask then what the 2.84 7 million budgeted for the 2425 will actually be spent on yeah thank you very much for that um as part of the um clean air neighborhood in South Fulham especially on the east

Side there is lot greeny measures and uh sustain sustainable Urban drainage measures and trees being implanted uh hence that’s where the money would actually go thank you counselor um any further questions um just say thank you very much thank you um and it’s a it’s an

Open Forum so I can I can ask um the residents who’ve kindly um come tonight if anyone wants to ask a question on the budget you are welcome to come forward but um I don’t see any hands so I think we are going to um we are going to move

That we consider the budget proposals and um the um we make Rec recommendations to the cabinet to approve thank you and the the proposed changes to fees and charges and makes um recommendations as appropriate thank you agreed thank you right moving on to um item five yeah thank

You we’re just GNA take a two-minute Break um okay thank you um so flood risk and adapting to climate change um first of all can I welcome temps water um we’ve got Michael Ben beny and Graham castl coming from T wat so thank you for

Coming um so I’m gonna hand over to Jim Cunningham um to present thank you this one thank you very much chair um so yeah I’m Jim Cunningham I’m the climate policy and strategy lead um in the council’s climate team um so uh first of all um myself um and our

Consultants at kin falis going to present um a little bit on our climate risk assessment and adaptation strategy which is underway at the moment and I’ll explain a bit more about that in just a second and then we’ll hand over to our highways team to talk a bit about local

Flood risk and then to TS water as well to continue on that topic um so uh just for this first of the three presentations um we’ll give you a bit of introduction and context I’ll do that in just a second and then I’ll hand over to Francis h and Caro

Keefe from Atkins Reales um to talk through some of our preliminary findings from our climate risk assessment um so you might be wondering what is a climate risk assessment um so we know that climate change is already having impacts um globally which we’ve been seeing increasingly in the news um but also

Locally as well most notably I think the July 2021 floods that you alluded to um chair um and also the extreme heat wave in 2022 um which saw the UK’s temperatures hitting 40 degrees for the first time um and we’re seeing um impacts of those on

The services that we provide as a burrow having to um change how we operate in extreme temperatures for instance um also seeing impacts to our infrastructure having to cool Hammersmith Bridge Around the Clock um and um and of course uh over 600 properties are known to have flooded in

Those July 2021 floods so as a council we’re implementing actions to to try to mitigate some of these risks including installing sustainable drainage Greening measures uh around the place um and adopting policies into our local planning policy to ensure new developments help to mitigate flood risk

Heat risk and also drought as well and we know that a lot more needs to be done so the climate risk assessment um is to help to give us a a better understanding of the risks that we’re facing as a burrow so what are those key risks um

Who is most at risk which pieces of our infrastructure are particularly vulnerable um and this is a two-part piece of work so we’ve initially been working on the the climate risk assessment side that will then be followed by an adaptation strategy um so looking at um which kinds of actions do

We most need to prioritize what would be the costs um of failing to adapt to climate change um and how can we do it in the most kind of effective and cost- effective way um so without further Ado I’ll hand over to Francis and Cara thanks Jim thank you councilors for

The opportunity to present tonight so I’m Francis H I’m an associate director in climate change and resilience with that realis and I’m an expert advisor to the London climate change partnership um and currently advising on the London climate resilience review and this is Cara my colleague hi everyone I’m Cara

Kei climate change consultant at Atkins realis also working with Oxford Count Council and specializing in climate risk assessment great um so we will um go to the next slide please I Jim just mentioned this but I’ll just give a brief overview of the two stages of the project that we’re um been commissioned

To support Hammer Smith and Fulham not sure if you can hear when I speak there um so the first the first piece is the climate risk assessment uh which we are well underway with we started the work at the end of October and started with a workshop um of

Stakeholders within the council to understand the council’s view of where uh key issues have been in the past um the rece reive inputs from the Council on um some of the data and information that can be provided so that we can build up the evidence base around the

Impacts that climate change is already having in the council and also looking at the impacts that could get worse over time we’ve then used our models and tools to come up with uh climate change projections we’ve used climate change projections from the UK uh climate change projections developed by the Met

Office and we’ve undertaken uh modeling and uh mapping using GIS technology and we’ll take you through some of the outputs from from that work um and before Christmas we had a second Workshop again with the council and external members um of different companies such as Tams water and uh UK

Power networks uh and in that Workshop we looked at different sectors across the B and how they could be impacted by climate change so we’ll take you through some of the initial findings from that that Workshop um and in the second part of the work which Jim just mentioned

We’ll be developing an adaptation strategy and that will be looking at once the the climate risks have been assessed and prioritized um the the the strategy will address what are the costs and benefits of different options to address the issues and where across the Bor needs to be prioritized in terms of

Actions and um what people as well are most at risk and how can actions be and prioritized to support those people most vulnerable great thanks Francis um I’m going to run through some of the preliminary findings from the climate risk assessment um so our first slide we’re

Going to run through some of the historical climate events in hamerson film thank you um so the graph to the left we can see that increase in mean annual air temperature and that’s from the 1890s to the current present day um you can see that gradual increase as the climate is

Warming um to the right we have a timeline of key climate events that have occurred since TW 2007 um just to pick out a few we’ve had the 2021 flooding event which impacted on many residents in hamers from filim the 2022 heat wave in July which saw up to 40 degrees

Celsius in London also the August drought that followed on from this um you can see we’ve kind of ended the timeline in November 2023 but we’ve had a lot of recent winter storms also um these are highlighted in green but you can sort of see the amount of climate

Events that have occurred recently and are starting to increase uh next slide please so I’m going to take you through some of our mapping that we’ve completed for the climate risk assessment um so this is just indicating the metrics we’ve used in the Mapp so we’ve taken results from the uh

Greater London Authority Bloomberg study of current surface flooding and heat risk um this takes into account vulnerability and exposure metrics so for vulnerability we’re looking at different demographics that can be impacted the most by climate change such as children and over 75s um we’ve also looked our exposure metrics um these

Vary between heat and flooding as you can imagine um to run you through some of them we’ve looked at changes in air quality as this can impact on Heat and the urban heat island effect in London we’ve also looked at Green spaces so aod is areas of deficiency in access to

Public open space so if there’s more green space um bigger areas of parks it has this cooling effect on the climate um and then for flooding we’ve looked predominantly at the risk of surface water flooding as this is what’s impacting hammer and fulam the most we’ve also looked at Green land cover to

As this can have a permeable effect on surface water flooding next slide please so these are some of the maps that were produced by the greater London Authority that we’ve used for our analysis to see kind of that neighborhood level risk across Hammersmith and fillm um we’ve got flood

Risk to the left and heat risk to the right you can see that sort of commonality between the two as it uses the same vulnerability metrics across the two um just to pull out some of the key kind of risk hotpots so we’ve got the dents and tall buildings these can

Be particularly vulnerable to high heat um areas with smaller areas of Green Space large housing Estates depos and transport infrastructure and high streets um you can make out on the map some of the key Council states that are impacted so Edwards wood estate Filman Lancaster court and also High streets such as Hammersmith

Broadway so delving into the detail a little bit more on Surface flooding so this is current surface flooding risk appreciate is quite small on the maps as it’s quite a discret um variable um but probably the graph that would be most interesting to everyone is the graph to

The left we’ve pulled out basement properties in areas of current surface flood risk it’s quite a lot of properties up to 4,000 for a one in a thousand year flood and that is a 0.01% chance of occurring every year so it’s quite low probability but very high impact if it does

Occur to the right um we’ve pulled out some of the roads that are impacted by surface flooding um this is widespread ac across the bough nearly all roads are highlighted as being in areas of surface flood risk as it’s a very impermeable surface um to pick out a few that’s

Hammersmith flyover King Street and Shephard’s Bush green next slide please so we’ve also looked at council state areas in current surface flood and heat risk areas um we’ve taken the surface flood risk data from the environment agency and the land surface temperature from the greater London Authority data sets so I’ll start with

The surface flood risk to the left um appreciate it’s quite difficult to see as it is that discrete risk we’ve picked out some of the key Council Estates which are in areas of surface flood risk um some common Estates coming up CLM Atley estate White City estate Edward Woods

Estate and the map to the right we’ve got land surface temperature um this is from 2016 to 2020 and is Summerland surface temperature so you can see quite high heat to the south of the baron film um and this isn’t taking into account the 2022 record temperatures seen so

This heat impact could be even higher in future next slide please so that’s the current results for our climate risk assessment but what will the future look like um we’ve looked at climate change projections for a variety of climate models um we’ve looked at this for two different future

Scenarios um so we’ve got rcp4.5 which is a medium emission scenario so this is if certain policies are in place and we’re on track for around a 2.4 de cus warming by 2100 it’s also best practice to look at a high emission scenario so this is sort

Of a worst case so that’s up to four degrees Celsius warming we’ve looked at summer air temperatures so we’re seeing up to around 37 degrees Celsius up from 35 but you can see in the brackets we’ve got these range of uncertainty in the climate models and that’s seeing up to

40 degrees we know in summer 2022 these temperatures were already reach so we’re already going above what the climate models are saying below this we’ve got annual one day total rainfall so this gives us an indicator of rainfall intensity and flooding so we’re seeing a slight increase in annual one day total

Rainfall by the 2050s and finally we’ve got summer rainfall percentage change this could indicate future drought conditions um we’re seeing that decrease in summer rainfall which could indicate more drought in future just to note there is high uncertainty across these climate models they have inherit certainty but the trends are clear next slide

Please thanks Cara so um coming back to the workshop that I mentioned with stakeholders from across the council and other um stakeholders from external to the council we through that the workshop and series of follow-up meetings we conducted the climate risk assessment collaboratively with um the stakeholders

That joined and for the climate risks we assess the impacts on six key sectors um which is crucial to how the council operates and um the services that are provided throughout the borrow so those sectors are shown on the leftand column and the four key climate risks

That we uh assessed are shown on the the top uh row of the table so those just to summarize the heat waves surface flooding drought and high winds and storms um and through the workshops we were able to assess the risks and um develop what you see here the summary

Table this has now been reviewed um with further Evidence so this is a preliminary version you’re seeing the updated final version will be um submitted in our report we’re submitting very soon to the council um but it gives you a sense of of the level of risk and the prioritization of different sectors

And different risks so I guess the key message there is that heat waves are found to be the highest risk to to the borrow um this has probably been underappreciated in the past I think this is true of many major cities and many um other councils as well that

We’ve worked with that um heat has been a bit of a silent um silent issue in the past that there hasn’t been the recognition of the amount of productivity losses and also Health impacts and even in some cases death that’s been caused by waves but um certainly that the awareness is rising

For heat whereas surface water floting is probably um not surprisingly also a very high risk but this has been far more evident and obvious in the past um so it’s something that the council and the Bor has already done a lot of work around uh but those two are the ones

That have come out as the most significant climate risks that will continue to build on as we start the work on the adaptation strategy the final slide please so yeah I’ve just mentioned there the report that we’ll be delivering to the council will be um summarizing all the work we’ve just

Mentioned uh and containing lots of the detail as well more mapping and more uh of the climate projections we’ll be submitting that this week to the council and then uh that will go through a per period of review and we’ll revise that in our final uh deliverables uh in May and that will

Incl include work on the adaptation strategy and so under that adaptation strategy we’re again uh working with different C departments across the council assessing their Readiness and understanding of the impacts of climate change and how it will impact on the services that those departments deliver uh and we’re building the evidence base

For the costs and benefits of taking action to mitigate against these impacts thank you and happy to have any questions thank you very much much for that um should we take questions now um or should we move on I think we’ll take questions now um I would first like to

Point out what what sort of glaringly obvious to me is that um particularly with the heat impact is that the Estates seem to be most at risk and that there four focuses that there’s that there’s a disproportionate effect on the lowest income um because that’s our social housing um

And so that that that whole group are more impacted by heat um but also by surface flooding as well um I mean could you possibly describe the specific geography of the Estates of why are they most impacted by heat and and flood risk thank you great question thank you so a few um

Indicators or variables I suppose that make um Estates more susceptible or at risk um Cara mentioned particularly on high-rise um Council buildings or flats um so I suppose hot air rises and with more exposure to solar gain as well with less shading at the higher that um residents live they’ll be experiencing

Warmer temperatures or certainly their Flats will heat up warmer um many properties as well may only have one single aspect which means they may only have Windows on one side of the building sometimes that that in in some properties there’s there’s cross flow ventilation so you can open a window on

Two sides that helps to cool down buildings but not not all buildings so quite often highrise um Flats may only have um windows on one side for example so that doesn’t necessarily help with with cooling down so those are two of the kind of physical built reasons

Around um the buildings but um certainly indicators of vulnerab ility is a is a is a big factor so um in social housing there’s there’s often a higher proportion of older residents um perhaps disabled residents um people who may be are already vulnerable because of health

Conditions and so all of those things um become Amplified during heat waves for example so with heat waves one of the key things is that people don’t sleep as well during heat it’s it’s hard to get enough sleep and lack of sleep um amplifies existing health conditions it

Also affects children quite a lot children don’t sleep and that then affects their parents um it affects pregnant women for example who already overheating because of uh carrying another a child so those are some of the vulnerable those are some of the factors that make people more vulnerable during H

Waves thanks very much for that and I I forgot to say thank you very much for for coming in and um Cara and Francis and and your fantastic presentation I just on a followup to that um I see that you you’re basically workshopping these things and looking at the whole burough

Um will you start looking at ideas from Europe where they have sort of lived with heat um more so than we have um and and and have brought in mitigating factors already I was just thinking if the highrise you know awnings are probably um a new thing to us um but

Over to you thank you yeah exactly there’s a lot to learn from other cities and other places that have been dealing with heat for a long period of time um and also the um the UK government environmental audit Committee just published um its review into heat

Resilience uh two weeks ago which I fed into as well so there’s some really good evidence there that can be used in the adaptation strategy um some measures are quite simple like warnings um shading um other measures um such as retrofitting buildings so that they have more windows

Or ventilation are more complex but can also be looked into so all of those things will be considered in the adaptation strategy fantastic thank you um do we have any immediate questions from the members councelor James thank you very much that was really fascinating and I was particularly interested in your

Comment on sleep hygiene and the impact of environmental factors on that so are there sort of potential strategies for linking up with public health to try and deal with that I can take that one if um that helpful anyone who can answer yeah absolutely so um we’re yeah we’re

Working with our Public Health colleagues um very closely um on this as in all agendas so you know the climate and ecology emergency um is very much Public Health Emergency so our Public Health colleagues have been involved in the workshops um that we’ve um held to date along with social care and

Children’s Services colleagues as well the feeding in around some of those kind of areas that are going to be the most vulnerables things like our Care Homes um also kind of thinking about home care where you’ve got residents who may be more vulnerable inside their own homes

And how we can kind of use those contact points um to uh to kind of identify where there might be sort of higher risk people and it’s going to be really key to that um don’t know if you have anything anything to add to that YouTu

Ju Just to say that um as part of the assessments we’re looking into the policies and plans of the council as well and we’re looking at the public health strategies and plans um so yes we will look at identifying opportunities for greater link up in future as

Well um counselor an Aris thank you thank you very much yeah fascinating um it’s kind of on a similar vein to to what Nicole has has talked about obviously heat is is the biggest risk um and you talked about floods as well with with water and so is

There a common theme with the flats in terms of how they collect water or is there V have you noticed diff variations on on that as well and are there any thoughts on how that will be mitigated again looking at examples abroad too so in terms of how the council Flats

May be susceptible to flood risk as well how are they is there a common way that they’re susceptible is it is it the balconies is it the ground levels where you know where where are the common elements or are they are they all different in their different contexts

Yeah yeah so there are some commonalities which was um indicated on some of the mapping we showed particularly areas that are lacking in Green Space um so they they’ll be more susceptible to heat because of the urban heat island effect but also they’ll be more SU cble potentially to surface

Water flooding because of lower ability to absorb and allow surface water to permeate um into the ground so that’s one indicator that sort of overlaps um with surface water flooding one of the main risk hotpots across the bar is for basement properties so we we showed the map um of basement

Properties uh I’m not sure that we have the count on how many of those would be Council Flats but that could be something we look further into if if possible um I don’t know if you’ve got any more to add yeah I was just thinking more with

The flat roofs and the balconies and things if they could be you know changes could be made to those but only if it’s a risk you know I don’t know how well the drainage is or those so sure yeah yes I guess the the level of detail we’ve gone into is more

Of a strategic borrow wide um review probably not as granular as that looking at the the built form itself in terms of the balconies or um roof pictures for example but you’re absolutely right those all could be potential areas for Solutions um green roofs for example or

Green walls are things that will be incorporated in part of the adaptation strategy is things that could be brought into action but we won’t get to the level with this work we won’t get to the level of saying in this street this measure should be installed in this

Building it will be more about the types of kind the types of solutions that would be able to be applied for the types of risks that are being seen thank you I would just add to that um in our Capital programs we’re looking for those kind of opportunities at the moment so

Um in our housing Capital program and we’re incorporating cool roofs for instance into our West Kensington estate works so looking at how so that’s more of a kind of heat reduction measure so looking at how you can use the reflection to kind of reduce view some of that risk of overheating in summer

And also looking for opportunities for green roofs as well as we have on um the queen Carolina state for instance right thank you very much um thank you if I could remind um guests and committee to speak up just so that the um audience can hear and speak into your mics just

So that the the residents that have that have come can here uh but I’m gonna hand over to councelor Melton to ask a further question before we the the kind of flood water thing sort of ss onto onto the temps water presentation so um but I will hand over thank you chair

Thank you Jim thank you Atkins realist team for a sobering report um as part of your strategic assessment was any assessment made of the costs of the historic climate events that you um highlighted uh particularly in increased use of uh unforecasted use of council services and reduced economic

Activity thank you so we will be undertaking more of the assessments on costs um into previous events we have cost information kind of at a macro level about impacts that have been reported for example in terms of impacts on the economy in London or on disruption to transport but we don’t yet

Have detailed impacts on the council itself so that’s um yeah a very good question that we’ll be probing further into around about the disturbance and the disruption for Council services or the increased expenditure to recover from some of those EV thank you Francis I’m delighted to hear that this is going

To form a key part of your next phase of your project as we’re all acutely aware around these tables and and both in the audience we need to know the cost of inaction to justify comprehensive and decisive action um councilor har would like to come in before we introduce hwat carry

On yes thank you very much chair just a few comments really and really to say to this report and study on adaptation and such like is really really timely we spent so much time focusing on climate change looking at it in terms of carbon carbon offsets and all that sort of

Thing but at the moment what you can see what is it nine nine local storms now today there’s ridiculous levels of floods in Death Valley in California and places which haven’t seen rain for about 40 years so things are changing and the heat waves and that that table of yours

Of um various events the timeline is really really telling and it says that adaptation is perhaps the more urgent issue that we need to consider and things that you’ve mentioned already are really work that we we need to undertake uh you mentioned roof roofs and uh water and such like there’s enough evidence

Around to so show that blue green developments can reduce local temperatures by 4 degrees centigrade and you know when you’re talking about that sort of thing then it’s important and things like our um climate change sdp the planning guidance has some of this stuff in it so can I draw people’s

Attention to that as well but you know the work you’re doing I think is absolutely essential yeah that’s the supplementary planning document that was agreed um yeah yeah we looked at the the previous pack um but it is worth um having a look at now um there’s somebody from the

Gallery who’d like to speak now we do have a temps water um presentation on water but if you’d like to come forward um perhaps there’s a there’s a microphone with councelor harcore thank you if you could introduce yourself and your question that would be great thank you my name is Pete nap

Resident from the Edward Woods I’m an air quality researcher so I thought I’d step in at this point um so we know that air pollution increases with heat waves you had that coming up right so we know that when nitrogen dioxide for example from diesel diesel cars reacts with

Agricultural emissions from elsewhere we get an increase of pm2.5 but firstly are those Health impacts included in the in the uh risk from heat waves and secondly are there strategies that the council can Implement to reduce the sources of these emissions during heat waves for example reducing traffic when there’s a heat

Wave thank you for a great question so absolutely in terms of the assessments um across the sectors we did think consider impacts from heat waves in terms of health including um air quality impacts but this is definitely something that um we believe can be strengthened in the in the plans and policies that

The council has um so your second part of the question I think is is a is a good point around what sort of measures could be taken we can bring that into the adaptation strategy around around some of those operational measures for example um because the the focus of the

Work that we’ve been commissioned for is on Capital Solutions but I absolutely agree with you that some of the operational measures things that can be temporarily adjusted um are really important as well so I think that’s a really good point Thank you and we have another question from the gallery if you’d like

To use the um the microphone evening everybody Casey aone thanks for the for your report one of the things I noted in it was how Fulham seems uh is suffering from a higher heat um density than actually the north of the Bor and it it confirmed what has been a sneaking

Suspicion of mine which is that we are losing Forest cover we are deforesting in Fulham at a gradual but Insidious rate a lot of this is actually on private land to according to my my observations it’s not so much this uh the street trees which are on public

Domain but a lot of the trees that are in private um residencies I don’t know again because this is just um anecdotal observation in fact um no no research behind this I haven’t done any formal or informal research behind this but is there anything that can be done is there an

Approach that can look at addressing uh forest forest cosso tree loss on private property um thanks Casey that’s a a really good point to raise um so yes your your anecdotal instincts are right so so the areas of um particularly kind of high heat readings map very clearly

Onto areas of less Green Space um and we’ve commissioned some research recently on private spaces which found that about was about almost half of um private Gardens in the burrow are completely paved um which poses yeah you know huge flooding risks and overheating risks to the borrow um in terms what

Could be done um we don’t have a huge amount of control over existing private Gardens um you know that’s not covered within our our planning policy Powers what we are trying to do is encourage people where we can with more carrot than stick um so we’ve been doing free

Tree giveaways um for instance uh to encourage people to plant in their own Gardens as well but uh yeah it’s a it’s a big kind of communication challenge I think because actually a lot of the a lot of the climate adaptation risk to the borrow is controlled by private

People private businesses on their land thank you unfortunately one of the times um at which this seems to occur most is in when properties they in transition as such it’s it’s hard to sort of like address this with the new residents um would it be estate agents or

Developers then who would be the best people to try to inform and educate about this yeah it’s a it’s an interesting question it it is everyone really I mean new development is better governed by policies that are in place so there are policies like the urban Greening factor

And biodiversity net gain that mean that new developments should be increasing the amount of green space and and including more ecologically friendly Green Space as well um so developers certainly do need to be engaged but they’re more governed by policy um I think where most engagement is needed is

With private residents um and and also with the organizations in the burough as well um so finding opportunities to Green our gray spaces um and you know I think the council can support with that in um through engagement through events like this and uh and also through kind

Of things like um giving away bulbs giving away uh trees that kind of help people to Green in lowcost ways thank you thank you um I’m now gonna hand over to TSW for their presentation on on flooding in ham Smith and Fulham thanks I’m just waiting for the slides

Thank you and good evening my name is grah clean I work for TS water and my role there is the longterm planning manager for London um we’d like to talk very briefly about um following on from July 2021 you’re all acutely aware of the extense of flooding we had in July 2021

We’ve put a map on the screen showing the I’ll go closer to the microphone is that a bit better okay we put a map on the screen showing the intensity of the rainfall event the dark colors are high rainfall the light colors are low rainfall and you’ll see a really clear

Band that crossed over large parts of London on that day about 2,000 homes have reported flooding to us um since that um and um seems to be some confusion okay it’s definitely the one on the screen talking don’t worry they’re up on the screen would that be okay thank you if

They’re to coun then at least at least absolutely no problem right let me go ask and close um roughly about 2,000 properties AC class runon reported flooding to us at that point um we initiated two activities very shortly after the flooding the first was an independent review which was done

Externally which we funded and the one was an internal review both of those review documents are aailable and publicly accessible on our website um the external one is fairly comprehensive um but it’s all there and all available and that’s really kicked off a whole bunch of activities so Jim if you

Don’t mind moving over to the next slide um what we did following that was initiate what we’ve called our sewer flooding resilience program we’ve initially committed about 10 million pound to further 4 million to come and potentially further on that in the future the intention behind that is to

Survey properties that reported in to us in that event um if properties did Flood have not yet reported it is not too late and we will happily take reports even in the next few months it’s absolutely no problem if they haven’t reported it and we will do a survey of their property

And then we will understand what mitigation measures we can put into place recognizing that some things um are within our control and we can fix and some things are a little bit more difficult so there’s there’s the water company Element to this and there’s the local Authority element and we will fit

One of three devices if suitable um and those are the little images you can see on the screen on the top right hand corner the first one is called a non- return valve that means it allows water to go in One Direction only and you don’t get flooded back from the sewer um

The second one is just a fancy version of that called a West stop um it’s a flexible valve that goes into the pipe and the third one is a pumped alternative and the Pumped ones give a slightly better level of protection but are not suitable for all homes and we

Have a program that we rolling out at the moment to do the Ser on the properties determine if they are suitable for this level of protection and then implement the protection in addition to that we’ve taken all the properties we received and we’ve prioritized them based on the series of

Factors and high priority ones are being done first and then we’ll get to the the lower priority ones over time on the right hand side of the screen there’s just some current performance data on where the program runs this is about two weeks old because we submitted the slides about two weeks

Ago to you it changes every day as more surveys get done and just gives you an indication of roughly the numbers involved in the end it’s about 385 properties in London B has mamed and Fulham that we expect will get some form of protection through this program Jimmy

If you can move us on one more please sure and could I just point out to counselors you will see these slides later on in the slide deck I think we’ve moved to the third presentation second which is okay um that’s about the short term um as your adaptation team has

Clearly said there’s a longer term issue here as well um and as part of the longer term issue there’s a few key things we want to deliver um the first and most obvious one is completion and operation of the tempst Hardway tunnel um that will predominantly help reducing

It’s not a flood risk asset it’s a an asset required to improve water quality but by the way it was built and configured it will help flood risk especially close to the river front so the temp T tunnel is the first and important one our measure thereafter we

Would like to continue and extend the4 million pounds we’ve already committed into terms of the flood resilience program and run that for a few years until we’ve done as much as we can for homes that flooded in July 2021 following that we’re looking at more longer term activities um in

Parallel to this we’ve had a series of studies um regarding the long-term impact of population growth and climate change across London the most common one is called the drainage and Wastewater management plan it is at the moment non statutory it becomes statutory with the environment act and it will be repeated

On a 5-year cycle the map you can see on the image and the data in the second half of the table are really the outputs from the drainage and Wastewater management plan um our focus is clearly a green Focus we don’t think the right answer is to build a whole bunch of more

Pipes we think it is to put sustainable Engineering in um that is a provides us with a very strong basis but it also provides a whole bunch of those wider benefits discussed earlier it should help with Urban green it should help with Urban heat and all those other

Factors we don’t count those too too much in our assessment we focus predominantly on the the water element of it but we know that that provides a wider benefit um the drainage and Waste Water Management plan says that roughly in the what you can see is the green

Areas on the map which is more than just your burrow some of your neighboring Burrows is’s about 1.7 billion pounds of investment required predominantly through green engineering but that won’t go far enough some pipe network will need to be construct as well and that is an objective to make sure that by 2050

Um we have mitigated all the impacts due to climate change so homes that have no risk of flooding now still have no risk of flooding in the future up to on in 50 year endall period as well as improve the position so a fair amount of that expenditure will will affect that homes

That are at risk of flooding today no longer have Risk by 2050 and if we can move on one more slide please the other thing that happened out of the external review We undertook was we formed the London service water strategic group um the one of the strong recommendations from the Independent

Review was there is no existing body or membership across London where all the authorities responsible for flood risk can collaborate and that was we recognize as well as many other organizations recognize it’s quite a big shortfall the Strategic group was therefore formed um in December 2022 the Strategic group

Has already commissioned a London wide service water strategy which we’ll probably see in the springtime of this year and that will give us a lot of guidance into terms of how we not just manage flood risk in local pocket areas but how because water doesn’t obey administrative boundaries how we can

Collectively work with um across Barrow boundaries to make sure that if there is flood risk that can mitigated in um Hammersmith and Fulham but the the the intervention is potentially in Camden or similarly if there’s flood risk in Westminster where the mitigation is potentially in Hammersmith and Fulham

Will understand what linkages and how those linkages are dependent on each other so we we’re eagerly anticipating the first results of the C strategic group one more slide if I remember correctly um as I’ve mentioned before um we have promoted a sud’s first approach Our intention is to do this through

Green engineering Our intention is to do this in collaboration with Partners the highways authorities um investment in places like um public realm areas in Council owned property because that’s really accessible and and hammers have a great record of delivering green engineering on on some of your Council

Own property already um to build up to that for the last 10 years we have been running a bidding program where local authorities lead local authorities can apply for a grant from us um if they meet a set of criteria we um will agree to fund schemes we have funded schemes

At H with in fulam before and in many other London Burrows we have a much better uptake in London than outside of London um so we hope to continue that and move that on into the future um but our focus is very clearly to do green engineering as our primary

Solution and then top that up with underground Gray Storage when necessary thank you thank you thank you thanks very much for that presentation and thanks for coming along um I think I’d really like to start with a couple of numbers um now you’re saying that you you’ve spent 10 million pounds on

Resilience features and you’re committing another four million pounds but T’s water up to March 31st of um 31st of March 22 uh the annual report report found that TS water made Revenue of2 billion pounds and the profit before interest taxes and depreciation was around1 billion pounds to that 12 months

Um 10 million sounds derisory I mean if you look at what the council spent on infrastructure those that figure is is a drop in the ocean hello um just my name is Mike beny I’m the uh stakeholder engagement manager for North London um so regarding the

Figures on on profit yes we did did report those um a lot of the this is I’m not an accountant so apologies there are any accountants in in the room a lot of those profit figures um are a result of gearing essentially it’s it’s a figure

Of our our debt in terms of value of companies and the value of the company and and things like that it’s the example that was that was given to me it’s essentially the value of your if your value of your home was to go up by

20,000 you don’t have 20,000 in your in your pro in your pocket it’s it’s it’s along those and I the the the cash profit was I believe a slight loss broadly broadly even um the reality is that a lot of our our big spending is is is decided within fiveyear business

Cycles so every five years we put together a business plan we submit this to ofwat and it tells us essentially how much money we can raise through bills and what money we can we can spend that on so we are currently in the 2020 to 2025 period known as amp seven amp 7even

Within within the industry um and so when that plan was put in 2020 we were allocated the funds to spend on certain things now these storms happen in 2021 and um basically we had be had to kind of move take money from other projects and other schemes to put towards this we

Don’t suddenly have hundreds of millions of pounds sitting sitting available to to to spend on these on these these schemes yeah no sorry man add a few important notes to that temps W is predominantly owned by Pension funds so the people who own us are BT’s pension fund the university super num pension

Fund that holding company has not received a dividend from us in the last four years and is not forecast to receive a dividend for another three years time um but when temp’s water was privatized in 1989 it it had no deficit and it currently runs 14.7 billion in temp’s water and all

Water companies deficit is regulated by offat so if you look at our requ found T’s water to be not behaving properly a report early last year found that by offat found that you were not engaging with the rules exactly on this I yes you’re you’re you’re entirely

Right we we we’re not going to argue that and I’m also not going to sit here and defend the actions of of previous owners is before my time but I’m not going to sit here and say that I’m also not going to sit here and say that our

Previous management have made the right decision have always made the right decisions we’ we we’ve got things wrong unquestionably we are not where we should be as a business we’re not be not where our customers should expect us to be or rightfully expect us to be as a

Business what we can say is that since 2017 as as greme said we have new owners in Pension funds and and few overseas as I say with since then they’ve they’ve not taken a dividend and actually it’s even further than that they’re not expecting to take a dividend until 2030

On top of that they are putting money into the business so last uh year they put 500 million pounds in we’re in talks for another 750 from them we currently expect to spend for example in this amp period about a billion pounds more than we’ve raised through bills so yes we’re not seeing

Historically we we’ve got things wrong both are uh I say I’m not going to defend my owners but the certainly the our previous owners but the uh and the management have made mistakes we’ve got a new CEO who started about a month ago um and we are working to fix that yeah a

New CEO because the last CEO left didn’t she because she couldn’t um Carry On a CEO whilst defending the the finances we have just been looking at the budget of ham Smith and Fulham Council and if we compare it to T’s water it’s a a a shocking report

Now going back to offat it seems that you are going to need the investment from your um from your investors because you will find three million for a six hour sewage dumping in the temps last year you will find 51 Million by offw for failing to reach performance targets

Are these just overheads these fines or you taking serious L your role in our city um absolutely we are we are taking taking this and we know we we we took the fines and as I said we’ve got things things wrong I’m not I’m not sitting here to defend um the the indefensible

And pollutions in particular we know they are unacceptable but we are taking action next year the uh tide temps tideway tunnel comes online that will cut pollutions into the TS the tidal temps by 95% um a few last two years ago for example the uh the Lee tunnel was brought online

That’s had huge impact on the channel C River where recently independent studies were carried out and fish life that had been there for years was was found back and coming and coming back we are taking the action we we know sewer discharges are unacceptable um and we are

Committing funds to to tackle those I appreciate the 10’s tideway is going is a a development and a positive move um we will come on to seage in a bit but I’m going to go back to to where we were at with the floods of um of July 2021

You say in your flooding review in November 2021 that you you carried out that you admit that the service you’ve provided fell short but you actually don’t mention that your call center were advising customers that this is not a temps water issue but you have to Hammer Smith and Fulham

Council I speak from personal experience and from both storms in July 2021 you confirm you cleaned up 252 properties um that’s in both storms but in the same report you admit receiving thousands of calls during those storms double the normal amount and 6,000 social media messages 200 152

Properties um let’s go back to your figures you’ve you have put in 10 non- return vales 10 sorry I mean this is advisory the work that you’ve done to Mi to mitigate for the future but to to um reimburse residents and tenants for what for the damage that was done it seems I

Mean July 2021 is practically three years ago you have put in 10 non- return valves could you answer why but you know 190 being thought about is just not good enough um well I’d say just as a I mean everyone will be be aware the storm in

20 uh 2021 was a a massive storm one of the most intense we’ve ever seen those the level of rain was well well beyond what our Drainage Systems indeed anyone’s Drainage Systems in London were designed to cope with we we were very quickly and and and and just said it was

It wasn’t forecast either it caught everyone by surprise um it it overwhelmed our systems very very quickly and and and you’re right one of our failures was we weren’t expecting that that level of rain we we when suddenly as you say thousands and thousands of people contacted us at once

Us our call center very quickly became overwhelmed we can’t manage have a call center that’s on standby to handle thousands of calls at at one go but um we understand that kind of yeah our messaging wasn’t particularly um clear on on on those days and in in some cases

Well in quite a few cases the the the incorrect me message was given out and we’ve learned from that training has been given to staff there’s clearer messaging on our website we’ve worked with local authorities to clarify clarify that message because and I’m certainly not washing our hands of this

At all but dealing with floods like this isn’t solely T’s Waters responsibilities it isn’t solely the local authorities thing it’s lots of bers who have uh lots of bers lots of organizations who have have a responsibility to deal with those F but yes we we’ve got things and regarding the cleanup to my

Understanding most people who contacted yes we were a bit slow getting onto site but to my knowledge most um households who contacted us for a cleanup received one to my knowledge the data we supplied was customized Forman Fulham we have done work in other Burrows the flooding

Did not just affect this burrow and that’s quite important to note so we haven’t just done 10 we’ve done more in Camden and we’ve done more in Westminster as well because they were also flooding in addition to that in addition to that as soon as we initiated the program our flooding reporting went

From about 1,200 to 1,700 properties so that is 500 homes who chose not to tell us they flooded and when they realized that intervention was going to be proposed they then reported flooding we therefore reprofiled all those properties in to make sure that they are also considered and are treated fairly

Even though they didn’t report the flooding initially yeah um does anyone H have any questions at the moment thank you chair you mentioned 384 properties in your survey program when is that projector to be complete for Hammer Smith and Fulham I don’t have all the data in

Front of me today the survey program that’s out will be completed and the implementation will be done in this calendar year and then we are starting the work on the second round of surveys for the less vulnerable properties and rep parting them through internal governance at the moment so we can come

Back to you with the exact date but I don’t have it just for I’ve got unfortunately for the entire program how long does the average survey take per property the surveys the challenge with the surveys is more arranging them than actually doing them they’re fairly shortlived it’s it’s a few hours

Probably a morning you can do more than one property it’s it’s the challenge is more to make sure you’ve found a time got hold of the the the owner of the resident of the property booked a time that’s suitable to them that type of activity and just to add on to that then

There’s we the the the results of that survey need to be modeled into what other data that we have in the area we won’t um if we for example we won’t install a device if we think it will just pass blood risk on to the neighbor

So that that that has to be modeled into as well that so it can take a number of months for that to be done uh councelor Anis first just just a very quick on on detail I know I go in on detail a little bit but um obviously

The the tideway infrastructure will help um um what can you give us the date when that is going to be done and you said it would also mitigate 95% of pollution into the temps but we still what’s going to happen with the 5% it’s still not good enough you

Know we want 100% clean rivers um we don’t want anything discharged so the tidway tunnel is delivered by a third party and they’re completely independent it will be not owned by TS watero customers it will be owned by the third party and they’re responsible for the deadline the deadline they’ve reled to

Us is that they propos to start commissioning at the second half of this year um end of October time they will Flex their commissioning based on rainfall so they would like to see some very large storms and they will extend the commissioning window to make sure

That they get those very large storms so it’s anything from a 12 to an 18mon commissioning period half of that will be low intensity rainfall that half for the tunnel the second half will be hopefully some high intensity rain for where they’ll fill the tunnel the tunnel’s therefore expected to it will

Do full commissioning 2025 um and that may run into 2026 just depending on the rainfall um and from 2026 27 28 that goes through a threeyear optimization window where changes can be made operating techniques can be adjusted and then it will permanently run in this

Kind of a a non amended state from 2028 ons at that point Tams water will operated the constructors operated up till then how much I mean okay so I appreciate third party said but how much will it improve for Hammer Smith and Fulham do you think in terms of flood

Risk yeah um we haven’t done the assessment at a property level because the challenges around the basements and you’ve got to understand exactly what we have assessed is how how how the water runs in the sewer Network how much it will drop and on the foreshore the level

Of the water in the sewer will drop up to a meter just because the Tad tunnel it’s also important to note that um the independent review modeled the implications of if the T tunnel was in operation in July 2021 storms and the detail is in there it is a fairly small

Impact because the storm was so large okay thanks and just to kind of follow up on on your we say 95 to 96 that that’s final few per off for the extreme with the he the heavy weather so just for for for context the the amount

Of rain which fell over the the count counters Creek catchment in a in a few hours was about 150% of the capacity of the tiway tunnel we are talking huge huge amounts of water um okay obviously they are particularly extreme but for those very very heavy weather where huge

Ms of of water are coming down that’s what the tideway won’t pick up the longterm strategy for for preventing those is surface water management um that we that we we mentioned earlier on that will take a bit of time okay thanks yeah would you like to follow up

Are you okay uh councelor James thank you very much and uh thank you very much for your cander uh you said earlier that dumping sewage in the TS is not acceptable will you stop um we’re doing everything long term the aim is to is to is to reduce it Al

So yes it is it is to cut it out but it’s oh I I I I can’t give you those the the the requirement to stop discharging sewage is national government regulated it’s called the storm overflow dis reduction plan it was published by government about two years ago it is a

National requirement that um discharges will be reduced not stopped and by 2050 and we are we are funded through offat to meet the storm overflow discharge reduction plan obviously the requirements set by national government are one thing but you’ve just told us it’s unacceptable what are your plans to produce it in the

Short term in the short term for for this part of Lon is the tidway tunnel um the tidway tunnel has done the assessment of the impact of compliance with the storm overflow redu discharge reduction plan and does meet it up to 2080 so you’ve just told us that’s not going to be

Fully operational till 2028 no I didn’t say that I said that the transfer operation will move from The Constructor to Tims water in 2028 I said that full commissioning will start next year which 100% of the tunel will be used and it will start providing benefit so what point just so I’m clear

Because obviously it’s all very technical what you’re you’re giving us at what point can we expect to see a significant reduction in the level of sewage being dumped in the temps in our area at the point where the operator moves from a 50% commissioning to 100% commissioning and they haven’t disclosed

That yet sorry so just so I understand that is that likely to it is expected to be in 2025 expected to expected to be in 2025 okay um I do have you follow on so so sorry apologies um you you mentioned the funding cycle so um presumably you’ve already got

Plans ahead for the 2025 to 2030 funding cycle will you be allocating more funding to deal with emergencies and and the Fallout from the 2021 uh storms for the next funding cycle the cycle gets we submitted a draft to a we submitted in October last year um they will provide a response um

Probably the middle of this year we expecting it in June at which point we will submit around about September time a final submission to ofwat and that then gets ministerial sign off in December 2024 and the funding starts from April 2025 yes but cycle that’s the cycle but my question is within your

Submission have you allocated sufficient funding to rectify the damage we’ve talked about today and to factor for similar occurrences within our submission there is funding to extend the um resilience program to make sure we have covered all the properties to make sure you have we have covered all the property that reported

Flooding in July 2021 so it will cover all the damage from 2021 it will cover where appropriate to install mitigation measures to properties that have flooded in July 2021 and what about future proofing at present there is nothing in our shortterm plans up to 2030 for this area that covers future

Proofing it’s very disappointing um you talked about the survey and um getting make being in contact with residents could you just clarify how you’re communicating to Residents they can get the survey so we I believe from from memory we wrote to every property that had reported flooding to us I believe to the

Loc that flooded to the local Authority but we also contacted their neighbors and uh properties that we are modeling suggested had flooding so for example if number seven and number F uh number three had reported flooding there’s a good guess that number five they made report to do us but number five for

Flooding so we we we contacted them um say we wrote three letters in total to each property where we had contact details that um we we did we um we would send emails um we would door knock as as as best we could and I’m Shake

Youre I’m sorry but my uh I shouldn’t bring my personal into it but I haven’t heard from you my property flooded as I said you know this is a non-pecuniary interest but I’m not sure that your Communications are getting through that’s then then we we would say

We can only we only went to people who’ activ forly reported flooding to us via via VIA that way if if you have and you haven’t as graem said the scheme told you a personal your personal turn as the scheme is the scheme is still open and

Um we are we have we haven’t closed it down people who haven’t I think I think that’s the nature of my question what are you doing now to make sure that Council try and others and particularly others it’s not about her personal issues here today but others in our

Bough um are aware what public information are apart from coming here today for which we are grateful are you promoting to make sure people are fully aware that they I mean when when when the scheme launched to set as well as letters and things we used um social Med

I think local social media groups we contacted um Community groups as well I don’t have toges I don’t have the list the ones within within Hammer Smith tomorrow to to hand but we did do quite extensive for about six months which is one of the reasons for for the delay the

First six months or eight months or so was was focused on trying to capture as as many people as possible the figure in front of me was about 14500 that we that we we reached out to and as you can see for the numbers of people who’ve come back to us

It is lower than we we would we would have liked to there are a lot of people who for a variety of reasons yeah aren’t coming from I would just suggest that that that going forward thank you again thank you very much for coming that this

Might be a point that that you need to take on board that those Communications we haven’t seen them as um as residents of of Hammer Smith and Fulham um and that maybe you need to to have a look a relook at communications um going forward one of our recommendations perhaps well perhaps

Then just as a as a follow on to that could you come back to us with your action plan because presumably it’s a Type window between uh now and when you’re finished doing these surveys could you come back to us with your action PL making sure that residents in

Our borrow are going to be fully aware of of your survey offer so I’m sorry I do have a few more follow on questions um you’ve talked about um high priority certain um certain properties being more high priority than others what is your criteria for that and are

You factoring in um in particular health and vulnerability issues of our resident yes we are so we use a Priority Services register it is a register shared across multiple utility organizations where people for instance are reliant on dialis machines and therefore require permanent access to water or other

Factors like that and so there are um non water related factors that do account for the priority that we use thank you so yeah just yes our number our first priority say was people who lived in highly vulnerable Properties or sorry high-risk properties and were considered to have a risk for example an

Elderly person who lived in a a basement flat with mobility issues we would prioritize them for for a flip as an as an example thank you that’s good to know and my last question you’ll be glad to know um you made the point that and I accept that you can’t have thousands of

People waiting in a call center just in case there’s a a sort of one-off storm I understand that but having now had that experience what is your con you know we’ve heard the presentation earlier about how volatile the weather is with the environmental changes what are your

Contingency plans if there were to be a similar occurrence to the storms of 2021 to make sure people can get a hold of you so um yes had to start this firstly as Bren mentioned we commissioned an internal review as well we say we accepted our our response wasn’t good

Enough an internal view of what went wrong and how we could approve and that that that that report is available on our website if you just Google TS water London floods or something it’ll take you to the to the to the link so it that that all sets out the action that we’ve

Taken on there but essentially from a without wanting to get too technical on internal terms we have what’s known as an incident structure um that would be stood up during an ISS issue like this what went wrong in 2021 was it it didn’t um it wasn’t it wasn’t wasn’t stood up

The call center was essentially struggling did pass on to the operational team because all our assets were functioning as they should so there was that was where it fell it fell down and why it wasn’t stood up that wouldn’t happen again mitigations been put in to make sure that would wouldn’t happen and

So we would a leas with local authorities at an operational level so um our teams on the site could go to the hot spots the the impacted the the impacted areas most by flooding that was one area that failed on messaging would go on on our website straight away which

Didn’t do to explain yes we’re aware their problem this is this is who to contact for for the necessary types of flooding we put messages out on social media um updates would go out to I mean on a scale of London flooding it would be senior counselors rather than every

World counselor but um would go out to elected officials on to inform on what we were doing so there’d be far clearer Communications there’d be far uh far more respons Ive on the ground and there are more people within the call center or who are trained on this now look I’m

Not going to sit here and say that if 2,000 people called within a few hours there wouldn’t be weights unfortunately we would struggle to ever get to a situation where that wouldn’t be a problem but hopefully this time by using proper messaging on the website on social media and to yourselves as

Stakeholders we could alleviate some of some of some of those those calls thatly that volume of calls thank you um thank you um I’m just going to follow up on that because I’m still I’m still a bit confused we you have appreciated that there was a there was a an event a

Storm event that caught you off guard um in 2021 but we’re hearing that these events are likely to happen again so for example in your report you talk about water butts but what are you doing to to to communicate that to to anyone that that that they should mitigations have

To be done now um and it doesn’t seem to be going quick enough um I mean yes um it’s not going quick enough but I think it’s it’s as as as I think was mentioned ear on managing flood risk and surface water flood risk isn’t solely on temp’s

Water um we we can’t it’s it’s surface water is a is is sits with with other other authorities but we are triing trialing schemes within Redbridge which also experienced flooding in 2021 we’ve been working with the local Authority there just tral a scheme of water butts because there’s no point us investing in

Thousands and thousands of water butts and then them sitting idle because that’s that that’s what we have found um that there has been limited very limited take up on from of these so there there is work to be done to go actually how do we engage people on these these important

Subjects so work has been done on that as BR mentioned in the um in the presentation there’s been the establishment of the surface water strategic flood group um and that’s one of the things it’s looking at one of those isn’t just managing risk across the capital but it’s also how do we best

Communicate that to Residents to who residents who are at risk of flooding how do we communicate them and how do we help them protect themselves because there’s no point us doing a bit of a peace meal then local Authority doing a bit of Peace meal and nothing really

Being joined up so it’s about how we get a joined up coordinated campaign to to highlight risk to people yes but when I talk about um temp’s water making a profit these aren unconnected you know we all are paying for a service and you have been consistently found to not be

Delivering the service that people should expect of you so you know the lack of investment in upgrading for 30 years is not a new thing it’s you know the storms of 2021 yes they were an unusually large event but at the same time you know no work has been done to

Mitigate those big events um you know the sewage being pumped into the temps we have four sites in ham Smith and Fulham where sewage is regularly dumped into the temps now this isn’t an extreme weather event this is kind of all the the time you know there’s a website that

That monitors and we are seeing ridiculous amounts of sewage and that’s not when there’s a huge rainfall that is every week of the year so we you know we H this is where why we’re concentrating your minds on this right now because you can’t take the money I mean you’ve gone

To offat or you’ve gone to to question about whether you can raise um water rates next year so that to pay what what are we paying for exactly because you know the 10 million pounds that You’ that you spent in two and a half years um do has not helped more than 200

Residents you know do you see what it mean um we we’ve previously mentioned that our owners have taken no profit for the last four years and are not intended to take a profit so there is no profit let’s just repeat that again there is no profit um but

Um reports that um that that 37.5 million was paid in dividends they reported that on the 3D of December 2023 that’s not true no no dividends were paid um that was they were so as you mentioned the debt that we sit in that we have is it sits within um what what’s

Known as a I’m I’m slightly going out of my my comfort zone here so apologies um and if if I do inadvertently say something I will right I I’ll I’ll correct but the that our debt sits within um a holding company which so those 37 million was go to pay down

Those debt now forly it’s cost because that’s it’s as as our owner it’s formally a um a dividend but in terms of our external owners they have not taken they have not taken a dividend yeah no you don’t need to be a mass genius to work out that the owners of T’s water

Over the last 30 years have got the the company into 14.7 billion pounds worth of debt and to service that debt you want to raise water rates next year um but it’s not paying dividends it’s paying off a debt our debt is regulated so if you look at the offat guidance they

Specify an item called gearing of what dictates how much debt water companies has and we have to achieve that debt to ACH do we have to meet that date to achieve our savings so let’s be really clear on where the responsibility lies for the date of all water companies

Across England and England not Wales because they they’re slightly different and that is regulated by national government um regarding your comment about paying infrastructure and um not receiving Services we have spent about 200 million pounds in the current period making sure we can treat the waste water

From Hammersmith and V and other parts of London while there’s a huge amount of that’s been done at beon s works at the moment um there’s a huge amount of investment that falls outside of your burrow because of the the context and the way London Network operates so to

Service your burrow to make sure we can treat the water and transport it there’s investment outside of the burrow at the moment there’s a 200 million pound project just to upgrade Waste Water treatment in in which takes the flow from here and say so um just a couple of the

The points on uh the previous owners yes we’re not again I can’t sit here and defend the of previous owners I’m not have to repeat myself I’m I’m not going to what we’re dealing with is is is our current owners who have put um 500 million in last year we talked for

Another 750 million this year they personally and that you can see who they are are they’re on our they’re on our website they they haven’t say haven’t themselves taken a dividend since 2017 and don’t intend to for the for the next amp within that sorry that business

That’s the business period and they all also um committing to oh expecting to put a further 2 and a half billion pounds in themselves because they they they recognize that some of the burden of what the challenges that TS water faces which is climate change and increasing Challen challenges on that a

Growing population our a our aging assets all of which need need needs to be addressed unfortunately some of that will does have to fall on on on the bill player um our bills and how much we can we we can raise is is is given to us by

Ofwat bills have broadly ra stayed flat for about 25 years more more or less they they’ve only risen in term in in inflationary terms but yes it it with those Bill Rises there will also be significant support for those who are struggling to pay bills as

Well thank you for that um I’m going to go to councilor Melton would like to ask a question thank you great thank you Graeme and thank you Michael for making yourself available for questions this evening uh start with a process question can you take us through given the um

Forecasting we’ve already heard about the increased frequency of adverse weather events including large storms and flooding can you take us through your processess for forecasting those adverse weather events and how that relates to your investment program the whole process is um turn out and defined in a document called the

Drainage and waste waterer management plan what it does is it understands the current performance of our Su netor and our waste waterer treatment at a baseline position that Baseline position was 2020 it then forecasts how the flood risk and um quality of the ifu be discharging back into the environment

Will change without any intervention up to 2050 it does it in three time intervals so you do 2020 2025 2035 and 2050 and you use that as your prediction of what how climate change is going to affect the Wastewater Services um the that prediction is not so much temperature dependent because for Waste

Water we are not as concerned with temperature as we are with flow risk but it does include for rainfall intensity and as well as annual duration so we know that we expect not so much in London but but southeast of England is expecting a 20% volumetric increase in

Rain as well as the items that um Francis mentioned earlier on in terms of the intensity increases so we’ve modeled that all we’ predicted that and then what the drainage and Waste Water Management plan does is it looks at interventions to not only mitigate the risk that is going to occur over that

Time but to improve the Baseline position the 2020 Baseline position and that’s where the 1.7 billion pounds for this area comes from it’s the proposed intervention required to make sure that we mitigate um all the climate change risk as well as um improving the Baseline position thank you for such a

Comprehensive response gr so if I’ve understood you correctly and please correct me if I haven’t then that um drainage and Wastewater management plan prepared on a 2020 Baseline did not forecast adverse weather event in 2021 or allocate funding to prevent or mitigate that the drainage and Waste

Water Management plan is not a function to allocate funding it’s a tool to demonstrate how bad things could be if nothing gets done in the long term and to therefore use that as an indication of why funding is required in the short term that’s the motivation behind it it

Is still non statutory that was done voluntarily by all the companies in England and Wales and will become statutary as part of the environment act def Roby processing that at the moment thank you grant so then to clarify what is the uh mechanism or system that is

Used to allocate funding based upon the drainage and Wastewater management plan funding allocation um we we can essentially only influence funding in the next five year cycle so the funding allocation we’ve got from 2020 to 2025 was submitted in 2028 agreed in 2029 and we spend from 2020 to

2025 we repeat that process every time the process happens of what um provides new Gardens new technical Gardens so the technical Gardens came out 2021 um and it it specifies how they deal that what things we can apply for what things they can’t we can’t apply for um they

Fundamentally changed the rules around flood levation um we used to have to submit a dedicated case so we want to do these proper these properties this benefit this cost and they would assess it on a Case by case basis we could still do that but what they’ve done is

They’ve said we fund you as water companies to cover a large bulk of your services running the operation paying the staff paying the electricity bill those types of things and they have included in that based allocation of funding a almost all our flood money um so it’s it’s not as obvious because it’s

Not a defined unique document that we subit and say please give us money to do this and we will do that with it it’s more written down in our base allocation of funding the funding is is um being reviewed because it’s a draft submission then go to a fin one interesting that’s

A that’s a helpful uh lesson in the regulatory system that shapes the water sector uh given the restrictions that you’ve highlighted and outlined for us including the change in regulatory uh allocation of funding can you can you give an opinion for us about whether you think the regulatory system is fit for

Purpose purpose and if not how it could be improved um I choose not to give an opinion on the regulatory system we are the regulated organization and it’s May probably inappropriate for me therefore to comment on on how we are regulated um similarly to if you drive down the road

And you breach the traffic violation you don’t tell the traffic officer how you think he should prosecute you or not prosecute you so I’m I’m choosing not to give a comment on that um the the regular regulatory framework is continually revised um off what have it in customers best interests and their

Intention is to make sure that that water companies across England and Wales are providing service to their customers and they therefore Flex it significantly every five years given the number of times before this committee you’ve highlighted that you have been unable to take investment or action due to the regulation it is

Disappointing to hear that you have no assessment over the uh the U those restrictions within your operations um what I will do is with with with respect need the gray myself this is probably quite a question quite quite senior level what I what I will do I

I’ll take this away and I we’ll get a formal response um on the company’s position on that because as I say it’s it could it’s it’s one that has potential implications on what we say so I don’t and with our positions within the organization it’s uh but we will get

You a written response on that I would welcome that further question you’ve mentioned green engineering uh a couple of different times uh during this uh this discussion can you highlight or name an example within ham Smith and Fulham a project which is implenting green engineering we’ve done a few with hemis

With and Fulham as part of the counter’s Creeks team I want to say mandora Road Jessica can you help me um White City we partially some of the work which ham FM delivered yeah so we’ve had um sorry Jessica healthy the healthy streets manager um from highways and ham Smith

And Fulham so we’ve had two phases we’ve done our own projects independently of TSW water but specifically with T’s water we’ve had two phases of um ctis Creeks projects that was based on flooding the ctis creek catchment uh the first one which gra alluded to is mandora and Molina Road U which trial

Different techniques such as rain Gardens and permal Paving and then in our second tranch we did six roads in the burough so mster Road edisan Road and Raj Trevor in the South and then greenside galphin and Wendell Road in the north of the burough and they were

Per Paving in parking Bays with some rain Gardens as well and on top of that recently this year we also did a series of rain Gardens and tree pit build outs in Milson and masbro road as well which were part funded by TSW but yeah on top of that we’ve also done

Our own sustainable drainage schemes in the B that’s extremely helpful Jessica can you provide an assessment of the benefits of those projects and if that’s not possible this evening can that be provided in R so in terms of the benefit we can talk about the protection levels

Of those projects so in terms of the counters Creek projects the second batch so the six roads that were listed um they’re designed to deal with rainfall up to a one in 100 year event so we put it in terms of percentage got 1% of 1% chance of happening that that event in

Any year um in July 2021 um that rainfall event was larger um so in that circumstance it wouldn’t have provided the protection required but in terms of General protection throughout the year that does provide a high protection in terms of other schemes it varies throughout the burough so our Flagship our Flagship scheme

Bridget Joyce Square in the north of the burough the White City estate um that also provides protection up to a one in 100 Year event as well very helpful thank you J final question from me Michael and Graham um or two questions really is any of your salary performance

Related Yes mine is can you tell us what the metrics are for for that performance there is a met sorry you want to say um the metric system is related to our regulatory performance so we publish our regulatory performance and you mentioned that we were fined because we didn’t

Meet the regulatory performance um we need to meet there’s a series of measures every measure is weighted differently part of that waiting if we were to meet targets we get a small percentage of our payment and if we don’t meet targets obviously we don’t get any payment but it’s it’s a series

Of metrics and so metrics you fail you get no you get no contribution where other metrics you do get a contribution so am I correct in understanding that some of those metrics would include uh PR preserving water quality in the terms there’s a pollution metric um the statutary metrics that off records so

There’s a pollution metric series pollutions there’s a um Sur flooding metric there’s a water qual drinking water quality metric um there’s 36 Ser that’s very helpful thank you um thank you um I’m afraid i’ I’ve run a bit late and I do apologize um uh

The Jim has agreed to to delay the suds and bring it to to a following pack the that’s the um Drainage Systems report because I wanted to bring in the gallery and ask any if they’d like to ask a question before um because we’re running tight on time apologies

Oh councilor har would like to come in first um Sorry Sorry Miss first not necessarily first but if somebody’s up yeah I just had a quick question because as I recall a few years ago uh there were plans uh which were quite well developed for um accounter cre

Almost baby T’s tideway tunnel and with um what was it the one of the the entrance points was going to be that Olympia car park and so on obviously it causes disruption to Residents and so on so that’s another issue but instead T’s water seemed to go down the route of

Fitting individual flips or non- return valves which really only protect individual properties and if you haven’t got one then you’re the next door property you get the backf flow so um how effective has that been and what was the rationale behind that was it was it purely Financial because obviously you

Know something like another uh Wastewater tunnel would obviously have dealt with a much more of a problem wouldn’t it um well I’ll talk you to the scheme but in in in a nutshell no in terms of the tunnel to the storm in in 2021 but so yes there was flooding I believe in

2007 for memory within the C within the counter Creek area um and so on the back of that we were we were tasked with coming up with solutions to um uh reduce flood risk in that area and so I think early on suggestion was to build as you

Say the um storm relief tunnel offat we we presented offat wanted more detailed plans because it was obviously going to be 125 million off the top of my head on um to build and they wanted kind of more convincing that if we’re going to spend that level of money um what more proof

Of of the impact it will have in the meantime we installed something in the region of say a thousand flips um well it again and some of the the sud schemes that that Jessica mentioned earlier on and so they were installed um initially in say in a in a temporary temporary

Measure then they were flooding again in 2016 I believe on the the of the brexit vote um so we kind of known as the brexit storms um and what it found out was actually the the level it was a similar sty level of storm but the flooding was was greatly reduced Ed and

The flips had actually far far bigger impact than we initially initially modeled so the decision was taken then rather than spend a further 150 Mill 125 million pounds on building this tunnel um we we’d go with the flips now following on from the storms in 2021 said we carried out this independ well

We sorry we commissioned an independent review which looked into uh how the the the impact of had we built the the storm relief time what would the impact have been and the model suggested that there’d be a the figure I believe was reduce in flooding by 3% now that’s not

3% fewer properties that’s lowering of around 3% so again the impact of this tunnel would have been minimal at a quite considerable cost to uh Bill pays it was calculated about 40 homes and and what we did when we installed the devices in 2010 is we made sure that we

Would not pass leing on um to ration properties did a fair amount of modeling and that’s one of the reasons why we built the scheme that Jessica referred to was to make sure that by solving one problem we do not create another problem at a neighboring house or at the end of

The street or anything like that um Helen do you want to speak um there’s a microphone in the middle there thank you hi thank you very much I’m Helen Dell I am a resident of Hammersmith in pulham um and resident in one of the areas which is very badly

Flooded in the brackenbury area I’m also the um buroughs climate change commissioner um I don’t quite know where to start but we haven’t got much time so I will um stick to a few points um my main message to you is that I think Tams water your response to this

Flooding problem where we’ve had 600 properties out of your 2,000 London happening in the burough is totally inadequate I don’t know quite how you’re going to get from the 14 million that you’ve already spent to the 1.7 billion by 2050 which involves hundreds of millions per anom as we go on um so

That’s a general Point um I don’t believe that your emphasis on dealing with surface water flooding and the m you’re putting on the 10’s tideway project as a significant part of the solution to this for our bur is the right approach um I think you’re totally ignoring the fact that we’ve got uh

Victorian sewage system that you manage which is inadequate in its capacity um we know that the sewage in Hammer Smith and Fulham comes down from noing Hill Holland Park Shepherd’s Bush and into Hammer Smith so that is way before it gets anywhere near the temp’s tideway project and I think that that is

A major issue you have to address about improving capacity in the system um that leads me on to the point that in future planning applications and future developments we’ve got more capacity issues to deal with there and a specific question which other residents have raised on what um mitigations do you

Tend to impose on those new developments given that you were consulted by the planning Authority in any major new development in the burough and how can you ask the developers to enhance their capacity and deal with storm water storage tanks and things like that so

That is the very I’m sorry to be Bleak and I’m you know I know it’s an immense problem but it is inadequate you’re you’re not dealing as councelor James highlighted with the future proofing of the system you’re dealing with immediate response to um properties which have

Been flooded so so that’s where we stand in the at the moment it’s pretty pathetic um where we go from here um I think we have to um work more closely together and I think I would encourage you to engage very closely with the work the council’s doing on their adaptation strategy

And I would like to see you get directly involved in those consultations with interested parties and with residents in formulating that strategy um because we are all in it together we all have a responsibility to solve this I’m afraid you know you probably have the biggest weight on your shoulders in

Your efforts to solve it but um you know we’re seeing a very comprehensive approach from the council in how they’re trying to tackle these these things and your presentation doesn’t give me any confidence that we can feel as residents of this burough that there will be adequate if not good protection in

Future for either properties that we live in so made some notes so I hope I would briefly cover everything you mentioned you’re right 14 million to 1.7 billion is an enormous jump enormous jump It’s unachievable and we wrote a special addendum document to our was management plan highlighting the challenge around

That and What needs to change that is a cultural societal change that needs to happen that is not something a water company will just enforce on on society you were talking about your own investment of 14 million to 1.7 billion that’s about years not about anybody else the investment identified in the

Drainage Water Management plan is not directly allocated to all water companies entirely that 1.7 million isn’t your ter water investment it’s somebody else’s but why are you is your fig it’s not somebody else’s it is a combination of investment that would be required for the solutions we proposed

To meet that Target okay well you need to have explained to us what the breakdown of that was there there wasn’t a breakdown applied because because in 2050 we don’t know what national government is going to do in terms of funding we don’t know what local government funding is going to look like

It would be um very naive of us to assume funding from third party sources in such a long time Peri with it so much uncertainty the the DWP document is absolutely clear that that is the requirement that is the societal requirement to meet that that level of

Target um but as you mentioned it is correct that change is significant and there’s a societal change required to achieve that level of of of increase if you think of it across the whole of London it’s about 20 billion pound increase over 25 years it is substantial

And we have clearly aware of that um in the early discussions the GL raised that and that is why we wrote a special technical guidance document not to explain it away because we can’t but to show the direction of travel to show the intent and to show how through

Collaboration we believe we can start working to achieve those values so that’s clearly recognized I apologize if if what I said today didn’t didn’t um convey that message initially okay and I I fully agree with you on the tidway tunnel the tidway tunnel is not yet to

Solve flooding and it’s not going to do a lot that is fundamentally true it is going to help a little bit around the edge yeah um but it you’re right we are here we are too far away from the from the river for large parts of your burrow

To make a significant impact and we we we’re quite clear and we accept that um surface water flooding is not the responsibility of TMS water only that was raised just after this Flooding at Prim Minister’s questions defra made it absolutely clear that there’s a significant role for lead local flood

Authorities to play Within that and that’s published on on PM prime minister questions and documentation we have a large role to play especially in bars like this where you don’t have Rivers except for the tidle river and it goes through our network but we are not the only responsibility for surfice water

Flood risk it’s a shared responsibility um your comment on planning applications is very valid could you just before we go on planning just finish on the sewers because I made the point that the sewer system comes from Notting Hill to Holland Park to shephers Bush to Hammersmith that’s an awful lot of sewer

Capacity that comes past our front doors or under our front doors and and you’re not the only burrow there are many other Burrows where flow passes underneath the trunk network with the capacity of the tideway tunnel will make sure so if you think about it from from a sequential

Point of view the Victorian sewer system was built they realized they couldn’t cope with every rainfall event they said we’re not going to put flooding in homes in general we’re going to put it in the river and they both the storm overflows the tid will pick up the majority of

Their flows to the stop it going stop it going to the overflows the reason we see so much residential flooding now is because we’ve changed land use patterns we suddenly have a whole bunch of residential homes in basements that were never basements before they’ never had connections no we

Understand that relates to the fact that the capacity of the existing system is inadequate so in order to solve this problem of people’s basements being flooded you if you’re not you need to think about future proofing and that is improving of the of the sewers so it’s a

Source control option um if you look at the size and design of temps of of the Strategic Network across London you will not make it bigger because you will grind London to a halt so just so just to kind of as as the point I mentioned earlier on was the

Amount of rain that fell over those few hours was about would have filled the entire sto storm event could you just explain what that 2021 what that classification one it was on the slide I shared so it a lot at Peak it was a one in 187 year event what

But they were parts of the bar this bar that t went in four it was very variable very very variable but the highest number is about 187 they Place obviously no rain but some of the some of the what was the previous events in 2007 2016

2016 we don’t have good data there was lightning and we use radar data and the lightning knocks it out so we don’t have comprehensive ACC dat around about a 1 in 32 33 right but remember the mechanism was completely different because the um spatial variation of the

Storm changed a lot so we we had a very very different storm in 2007 than we had in 2026 what we did see that that hamers Fulham suff for really badly is that there’s two large sewer networks and they form a big cross and one one rainfall event was one and one rainfall

To the other and the property in the middle suffered under both and they hammers within full on properties and say the point as about the 2021 storm is the amount of water which fell would have filled the 26 kilm tideway tunnel at one and a half times over so it’s how

Far a you practically build sewers within Hammersmith if we were to suddenly turn up and we want to build we’d knock half the burrow down to build that and then you’ve also got to get the water into physically it’s like emptying a bath when you empty a bath it just

Doesn’t suddenly go in there it’s same effect so I I understand these issues and I understand it’s very complex all this leads me to the conclusion is that there isn’t a solution for this well there is and that’s that’s that’s that’s what’s been worked we’re not we’re not

The only there is a solution the solution is Source control it’s green engineering and through the work we’ve done in the drainage and Wastewater management plan we believe we can provide most of London to Protection 1 in 50 but the solution is control one in

50 5 Z 5 Z yes but the we’re just for the we’re not the only this isn’t a TS water scheme that we’ve come up this this is this brings us in line with sorry 150 rainfall return period so um Jessica mentioned the probability of

Rainfall so we say it’s a one in 100 which is a 1% chance of a rainfall of that intensity happening in any year one50 is obviously a 2% chance of the rainfall of that intensity in happening any year because it’s probability you can have a 1 in 1550 in two subsequent

Years because it’s a probability it’s not it happens every 50 years or happens every 100 years the storm you experienced we experienced here in um July 2021 was at Peak a one in a one 87 it was a very very big storm yeah but just to that four but sorry can we

Because I want him to answer the rest of my questions that’s right yeah thank you keep going population growth and and new development because you’re in the combined SE system new development is your friend um there is really strong planning policy in hamers with and

Fulham and so when you look at the total rain volume of water entering our sewer system a new development will produce less water to our P than old development does an old development you get a little bit of f water and you get a huge amount of surface water because it’s not stored

A new development you get a bit more F water than you got previously and the planning policy restricts the surface water down to 5 lers per hectare and the net effect is zero okay that means every development is helping in the combined system like in Amazon every development

Is helping our case I I’m not quite sure that that is right because for example many of these developments in new ones or existing ones which involve a change of use and moving from for example offices to hotels well you think of um the discharge from bathrooms in hotels

You know times 180 hotel rooms or whatever every day that that’s must be putting pressure on the capacity of your system the rainfall the the the flow is um instantaneous flow not daily flow we want to know how much how quickly we’re getting it not how much we’re getting we

Can take a lot lot of water slowly we can take less water quickly that’s how pipe networks work um so even with a change of use just just to give you an analogy if you put a if you misconnect a single Conservatory into the into the

Surf system that is the same as 21 homes as F flow just the conservatory the surface water element is astronomical but that’s not what I’m comparing I’m comparing a change from office to a hotel develop itial the surface water contribution is so much the water insignificant sorry I I think I think

Need to have a specific question and a specific answer just for the interest of time there’s been a lot of people asking questions about this and I’ve been nominated to try and field a few of them could could you come back to me on the point about adaptation and your

Willingness to collaborate with the council fully and wholeheartedly in a resident engagement exercise um we we are very supportive of it but we need to work across London this this problem is not unique and not special to You’ had 600 out of 2000 in this burrow of your 2000 in London 600

In this burrow in this bur we’ve got a big problem in this burrow yes we fully recognize that the two the two Burrows with big the two Burrows with a big problem are are yourselves and Kensington chelse what we like see you is around the table because as residents

We don’t see you engaging and helping us solve these problems we see you trying to um far fight what’s happened but not thinking anything about the future and we we are probably you don’t see us thinking about the future because we do they predominantly at the moment through the

Service we need your expertise to help about the future so that’s why we like you round the table I’m talking about round the table in this work that the council is doing we can have a chat with with the council afterwards and understand how can contribute the important thing my responsibility is to

Provide the service across the whole of London all 33 London Burrows um this is these two areas are the most sensitive we know that from the historical data and the work that the surface water strategies should release to us is to understand um where across London is the

Most sensitive other than this area because we know this areas already um it could be that another part of London has never had the rainfall return period in in kind of living memory and therefore we don’t know that at risk actually are risk I doubt it but let’s let’s

Understand that and the second part of what the London strategy really needs to do is to understand where do barers need to collaborate with their neighboring burs to solve problems and where can they work by themselves there are a bunch of burs in London that are as

Insula they just need to look after themselves and it’ll all be fine because they can through their own adaptation strategy through their own management they can solve it there’s burs like yourselves that cannot just work in insula you are very reliant on on collaboration with Camden with westmin

With Kensington Chelsea and with us to make sure that we have a plan for the whole of that area that deals with it all because ham will never be able to solve this in in isolation it is a joint issue and those are the two key elements

We need to get out of the service order strategy because that will drive the debate across London to make sure we’re focusing our areas on the right focusing our attention on the right areas and we’re doing it in organizational structures that allow us to work together where water flows not where administrative boundaries

Lie I’m going to ask Casey to come up I’m while Casey is um coming up I I would like to just add a comment to this that it really is disingenuous of you to say that that that there’s three part there’s more than your party involved you know that the the sewers are

Incapable of managing even the amount of flow that we’ve got at the moment in sewage and water so you’re saying well well that’s the problem the surface water is the problem of the local burrow well actually you’ve got to it’s disingenuous to say that the subers

Can’t cope so you have got to so no I’m going to go back to what Helen said that you have to work closely with the council because you’re the the capacity of the sewers is underperforming so the surface water drainage has to be increased you can’t put that on Hammer Smith and filam

That has to be in collaboration as teamwork so just very very very quickly we’re not putting just on Hammer Smith and Fulham and I think Ian and Jess we’ve met with them M regular on quite lost count lots of times on on those but it comes back to this the surface water

Strategic group that was set up is precisely that it’s us at the table it’s the it’s the local authorities it’s the EA it’s everyone who has who has a flood management responsibility around the table that that is being done thank you I’m going to we need to recognize that the legislation is fragmented

There’s a bit of responsibility on land owners there’s a bit of responsibility on lead local flood authorities there’s a bit of responsibility to the water company and without those organizations working together we are not going to resolve the serice sort of flood risk okay um Casey uh forgive me if I struggle for

Coherence here um that’s just because my head is slightly scrambled the first half of the first half of this um of this meeting was highly Illuminating and this second half is slightly terrifying um can I ask first can I start by asking first about policy aspiration and aspirational policy because so much

It to a lot of answers about what do we do or what do you do next or or what are your aims and targets you seem to come back to Def now unless I I don’t maybe I don’t get defra but I think that defra is sort of like the

Regulatory body which in other words sets the bottom standard but I’m looking for what are your as what what are your aspirations and um kind of it throws me when I get the 2050 to stop things like 2050 as an as as not even aspiration but this is a

Time when we’re going to look at um stopping sewage releases in other words this is a problem that my grandchildren who I don’t yet have are going to look at look for solutions for Um what what optimis give me something to take home it’s a really really really good question um we have published irations in a document called 2050 Vision so Tim Walter said what we are what we aspire to do in the long term is in a document called our 2050 vision and that that

Says we don’t want spills in rivers at all we want to stop homes from flooding we don’t want any homes to flood and that’s the aspirational element of it the challenge water companies face is that the funding we have to spend on money is regulated we told how much

Income we get and we we’re guided into how we spend that money to meet certain commitments and if we don’t meet those Comm we get fined so that that’s the reality of our works and so what what we need to do is balance where we’d like to achieve where our customers say they

Want to achieve with how we can release funding and allocate work to make sure that we are driving towards those goals okay there’s a likely chance that they don’t quite meet up at the end can you tell us anything about the pathway to achieve yes long-term

Visioning um um for the long term and what the short term sort of like the shortterm um uh basically one question question sorry yeah I’m going to try and answer this simply um this is the first time Regulators have asked us about the pathway historically they’ve said tell

Us what you’re going to spend in the next five years don’t talk to us after this what they’ve required this time is a document called a long-term delivery strategy so tell us what you want to achieve in the next five years and how you’re going to get to where you want to

Be in 2050 they have put some rules on it because they’re Regulators so they’ve said there’s eight criteria in each criteria you have scenarios you know certain things it’s not just everything but they’ve been really clear that we need to show a pathway to get to a 2050

Vision um Regulators have also been very clear that they do not want us to use customer money to accelerate that pathway the example I’m going to give is carbon neutrality um you may not have been aware but about two or three years ago the water industry collectively said

We’ll be carbon neutral by 2030 um government has told us we will be carbon neutral by 2050 and they will only fund us to achieve their target by 2050 because that’s the government standard so there is a pathway document that that explains the short term of it in terms

Of how we get from where we are today to where we need to be by 2050 um we’ve got an aspirational document which sometimes Falls a little short definitely on storm overflows it falls short you know government have said this is the limit of spills by 2050 we’ve said we’d like

To be at zero um there’s a a roots on how we get there um government are very interested off what and de are very interested in the short-term element of that recognizing there’s a lot of uncertainty and things we need to resolve near the back but to align aspiration and government targets I

Trust I’ll be able to come back to you for the pathway then thank you thank you yeah could we make a note of that um one resident thank you I appreciate it late I’ll be brief you want to introduce yourself yes it’s Pete nap again uh resident of um um the Edward Woods

Estate uh so we uh firstly wet wipes is an enormous issue um I’m pleased to see that t water supported propose proposals to ban them and I’d like to see this continue with the so-called flushable wet wipes that don’t break down before they become a burden in in the sewers um

But the issue of what to do with wet wipes after they’re flushed is the responsibility of the water companies so uh wet wet wipes generally reach our Rivers uh through the sewage system there’s an Islander wet WIP the size of uh two tennis courts in the temps near

Hammer Smith bridge and I’d like to see temps water to contribute to that cleanup uh it was a wet white blockage that caused my flat to flood twice in 2021 uh where I lost many personal belongings uh to call this an unexpected or a one in a 100e event means ATM water

Is not aware of the increase in in flood risk from climate change I don’t believe believe TS water was unaware of this uh temps water needs to increase the capacity of their systems to reduce the use of storm overflows and improve the screening of wet wipes sorry the

Screening of waste to limit wet wipes getting into the environment the 10 million pound investment is small compared to the 1.5 million income from the CEO year onye the lack of preparation was due to Chronic lack of investment things need to change will TS water commit to increasing capacity and paying their CEOs

Less I really can’t comment on the CEO one but let’s start with wet WPS wet WPS are a serious concern um the wetwap activity and Survey work that TS2 21 does out on the foreshore in Hammersmith is partly funded by us we’re working with TS 21 there are local environment

Charity to understand how that continues post theway tannel obviously we’ll use the dischargers more frequency on the tunel operation so there’ll be less wwbs but there will still be some and so we’re just trying to collaborate with them on on how we will um arrange surveys all the kind of work they have

Historically done both to quantify it and to rectify it in addition to that we installing a large amount of SE depth monitors we have about 10,000 at the moment installed and we proposing to do many more they are meant to produce help us to understand where blockages occur

Before they cause a service failure so we have these depth monitors they link to autom system the alarm goes off and says this the level in the sewer is too high we suspect there’s a blockage we can then proactively send somebody out before a home floods or before it causes

A pollution incident um that’s more common on small diameter pipes there’s not that many small diameter pipes in hamb SM and fulam but we are continually increasing the coverage so we will continue to work on wws we will continue our advertising campaigns that is specifically targeted to areas where we

Know we will continue our implementation of monitors to make sure that we can some of the incidents resolve them before they cause a certain the clean up operation and the cleanup operations I don’t know the details of the discussions with tim21 I know that they’re underway but I’m I’m not close

To that activity but I know there are discussions underway um we are very aware of the impact of climate change acutely aware of the impact of climate change um our historic analysis says or most recent analysis is about 178,000 homes in London that do not have a risk

Of flooding today that will have a risk of flooding in 2025 and we’re doing some more work to refine that number down but and understand it better where those are but we are absolutely accute of awareness the answer is not to make the pipes bigger we need to be absolutely clear on

That um both from a construction point of view from a financing point of view and if you make the Pips bigger you’ve got to make the treatment works at the end bigger and you’ve actually got to treat that flowes and there huge complications with we already have a

Works that that treats its maximum flow for 48 hours once the t is an operation so there becomes practical restrictions to making the pipes bigger and that is why we through the drainage and Waste Water Management prop plan proposed the sud’s first approach the answer is Source control let’s deal with the water

Before it gets into the pipe let’s slow it down let’s prevent some of it from getting there in the first place and by doing that we will mitigate the impact of flooding so just a quickly dump in and by doing these measures me these measures to slow down water by SS that

That involves Greening this address that if we do it on the scale that we need to that addresses some of the problems that was raised in the in in the early port on temperature temperature for example and those that’s that’s why it is there is we will we’re not ruling out capacity

Entirely and if there are pinch points in the network there are certain capacity things we’re not ruling out entirely there will be tactical local where we have to make pipes bigger but the there is no way it will technically work just to put another whacking great

Big pipe in and send it to East London and that’s going to magically solve the problem the last one is the tideway tunnel and then you hit Pro problems of being able to treat that flow store that flow make sure it doesn’t stink make sure you can you look after it safely it

W gets the other end but but there will be tactical upgrades certain locations where there’s a little pinch point between two or three roads and the right on is to make that those bit of PS bigger so one final clarification for me when I said the storm caught us by

Surprise it was that particular one of storm wasn’t forecast I believe that might have been a yellow weather warning which we get dozens and dozens every year it wasn’t that that we we were expecting extreme weather we are we cutely aware of climate change what I meant was just that particular storm of

That severity wasn’t forecast by by any modeling you got to expect it thank you very much for that thank you thanks for your question now it’s running late so again I’ll apologize to Jim about the um the s’s presentation but if we can ask for that to come to a following pack

That would be fantastic um just to I think we’ll we’ll wrap up um thank you very much for coming um I do think some things have really come to to pass that in the conversation that you really have to work closely with the Council on and

But there has to be money behind this the investment has to be bigger than 10 million pounds which over two and a half years you know is a drop in the ocean we don’t have we can’t charge our um Bill payers any more in order to do that so

We have to work together to make these the to make it work so that the sewage the surface flooding um has somewhere to go as well um so I think you were coming back on what was we gonna come back on um if you could report back to us what what was it

Was the yeah the regulators and Communications are the two the two things I’ve got if there’s anything else please drop me you’ve got my address please the comment around the um activi specifically for hamerson Fulham in terms of the project that’s funded the the 70 yes I think that’s right i’ just

Like to to to reiterate the comment that the that Resident our lead on climate change um said you know 600 out of 2,000 homes that’s 30% so you’ve said a number of times you know we’re not the only borrower but it you know it’s we are a

Signant proportion of the damage and we need you know you need to know that weely aware that that all indication show am Kensington Chelsea little bit of Camden very small bit of Westminster that is where for the moment the concentration of risky Liv for London we

Are cutely aware of that yeah and I think you also mentioned councelor James the the sewer into the river you know sewage yes sewage sorry sewage into the river the you know the regulations um might say that 2050 is the target but right now we’re all sitting here today going no we don’t

Want sewer sewage going into our temps in 2024 25 26 27 and for the next 24 26 years you know so that has to you know Green engineering really has to step up to to to try and solve that issue right thank you um I think we’ll

Close the dates of the future meeting we have a meeting on the 23rd of April um which will be open meeting again if everybody would like to come and um uh does anyone suggest any work that we should include in that meeting we’ll have a thing we we’ll post

It so thank you all for your patience thanks for coming tonight and um very good meeting take care