Coaching Businesses, Building, & Living in Miami | Cardinal Mason

Mason Doerr is an entrepreneur and creator from Canada, now based in Miami.

In this episode we discuss the reality of building a coaching business, creating online, and living in Miami.

Maon’s Links:
– Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/masonxdoerr/
– Twitter: https://twitter.com/CardinalMason

My Links
– Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5WPBMDrtKZllVjKfFT9F4i?si=b580e63aa165440d
– Twitter: https://twitter.com/conortrains
– Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/conorsunderland_/
– Work with my agency (For eCommerce brands above $150k/month): ⁠https://kensingtonmediahouse.com/⁠

Get access to every episode 12 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify – spoti.fi/3tr4Des or Apple Podcasts – apple.co/3NL5SvI

Chapters:
00:00 – Life In Miami
02:00 – How 2023 went for Mason
09:23 – Beyond Pent-up Demand
13:45 – Growing and Building Social Networks
17:08 – The Renaissance of the Webby funnel
19:52 – Conversion Rates on Webbies
22:08 – Leveraging Instagram
26:30 – Handling Business
30:30 – “Youtube is the daddy of them all!”
35:45 – The Future of Copy MBA
40:57 – Moving to Miami
47:15 – Travel Plans
54:30 – Mason’s advice to his 20-year-old self

And then we’ll go yeah sounds good bro I’ll do a quick speed check here as well we go that’s we like to see how’s life in Miami treating you oh it’s great man yeah look like look like you’re up in a sick time there but like Ben and Co yeah

Bro like it’s it’s just um it’s just good man I feel like I finally found like my squad I mean I’ve had a squad for a while but like it’s really good to recording yeah yeah it’s on but we’ll just we’ll decide whenever we’ll see whenever it’s the most natural point to

[ __ ] roll into US I mean because I’m about to say some [ __ ] but um I mean I think it’s it’s super important people to have like sort of outside friends where like you have your core group right and that’s what a lot of people have where they have like maybe three to

Five friends that they would call like their homies but like and I have that but I love the idea of having like you know 20 to 50 people that are sort of like in your city that you can kind of like invite to places that are like less

Intimate where it’s like you’re not going to have you know maybe dinner with them oneon-one but like it’s like okay we’re having a house party like who can we invite all right we got our core people that are going to be there no matter what and then we got like 20

People that like will bring their friends and stuff like that and just makes your circle feel so much bigger just by having like 20 kind of like peripheral friends where it’s like they’re not in your life 100% you don’t talk to them every day but like homies

You know what I mean bro you definitely have that like I think with you know like you have your friends like you have like different activities like let’s say this is like your these are like your gym friends or like your gj3 friends or like you guys playing tennis like these

Are like your tennis friends or whatever but like you don’t necessarily do everything with them but like the core the core group of the people that you do most activities with maybe not all but you’ll do like most activities with like definitely have that here but like you

Want to get bro you want to meet like interesting people as well like you know you want to meet people who are like potentially involved in crime yeah yeah like they look like they could legit like how was how was 2023 man like you had

This mad year we met each other in like 2021 and you’ve always been in the copyrighting space and you smashed it there and you’re obviously you work very hard at it but you’re quite a natural as well in terms of some of your emails that you did back in the DDC space were

Like Twitter famous like certain brands like disco um what was that drink barcode yeah like those were those were famous but uh how was 2023 with like the new departure that you had with copy MBA that went went crazy yeah throughout the year well first of all I appreciate that

From and I mean like for who who’s your is it mostly other business owners or is this like a b Toc like are your mostly business mostly business owners I’d say yeah I can then I can kind of speak freely because like obviously like there’s like the customer facing side

That I talk about of copy MBA where it’s like we’re helping a ton of people which we are and then there’s like the business side of copy MBA which is like just insane like just you know I I can’t believe how well it’s done and It ultimately comes down to a ton of

Really good content and being super engaging online having a wicked offer and um and I don’t know I think just like it like dude it 2023 was truly the year of the personal brand like obviously I started Tik Tok and in 22 and Twitter in 21 but 23 for some reason

Was just like the year that it kind of came all together and I sort of hit definitely not mainstream status but like one of the guys that like kind of gets looked up to because I’ve been around for a little while like no matter how good your brand is you’re

Always going to have trouble competing with people who have been around for like two plus years just because like they have the Nostalgia Factor built in and so I feel like I finally kind of hit that in 23 um but I mean like bro I I can kind

Of go through the like month by month of how [ __ ] went like 2023 was a weird year because I had just like a a really low low and a super high high high like it it went like it truly went from like like quick and like that was why it was

So impactful for me do you want me to get into it like I yeah let’s go through I’d be interested to hear what the low was and then like going into going into the high because I I I think I know where the high is hit but I’m not I’m

Not so certain they could have been even more rockus than imagined well the I mean the highs the highs are pretty I guess well documented because like I I don’t mind talking about it the low is not so much I’ve I’ve kind of alluded to

It I guess on on podcast and and random stuff but like so end of 22 and again there’s a lot of details that I have to leave out legally so if anybody’s like what the [ __ ] is he talking about just know that I wish I could tell you but I can’t end of

22 something happens I start making a bunch of money right lifestyle inflates I get used to like sort of consistently making like a hundred plus thousand dollars a month um everything’s going great right agency cranking info just in general is cranking like Tik tok’s cranking audience all like I’m getting

Recognized all over the place like shit’s just great bro um up until like New Year right so New Year sort of like that was like the peak peak of everything like where I was just feeling so good and everything was so like profitable and so like euphoric yes

We come into January and we’re kind of like just cruising we’re not growing like we were because like bro from like September to December like Q4 was just like that just with everything that was going on right and then January were just stagnating and like I’d also never

Really been through like a full cycle of info before so I didn’t know what it’s supposed to feel like like I didn’t know that January is supposed to kind of be like a slowish month for business in general because like agencies are so stable like you know this like it’s not

Like the market doesn’t really affect it like it’s not like oh there’s a there’s a recession like my agency is gonna fail it’s like no it’s Services it’s B2B services like it’s it’s going to go up no matter what or at least stay still and so we started to stagnate a little

Bit and then February started to go like this and like dude honestly what happened was like sort of like a crisis of identity where I was just like wait I’ve been spending all this money and making all this money and feeling like I’m the [ __ ] man and like all that’s

Just kind of gone now like Tik Tok wasn’t really working as much anymore it was just like not it was not as good like it wasn’t as easy right like November December automatic like it didn’t matter what I did let me go on DND um didn’t matter what I did

Everything work right um and you know February March it was getting a little Grim where I was like oh [ __ ] like I’m making much less money I feel like I should do something to sort of fix this long story short partnership went sour um I had to basically start from

Scratch and I really didn’t have that much money at all because my burn was so high but I wasn’t making very much so I was actually spending more than I was making D and then I also had to pay uh I had to you know buy chase out of cop VA

Which I which which I paid a lot of money for I can’t Che but um and so I and then it was all mine so I was like well I’m starting not from zero but it was pretty close and um and so like we relaunched April

19th and like in our first like full 30 days uh I’m pretty sure we did it was like over 300 for sure and so like and since then like it’s just like it’s just been going like this and so like it took me from like it it was just a big jump

Bro like a like a four to 5x take-home jump in like a month or two like changes your like psychology and like I was also thrusted into like a a real leadership position because I had to build a team to to like sustain all this [ __ ] and so like for the first time

In my career I was actually like full-time just managing people and also trying to like market and build a [ __ ] whole business like on top of that so like I was playing like the role of like CEO CMO clo at once and so like but bro since like since April 19th like

It’s just been again like Euphoria but the difference is now is that it’s sustainable because it’s like a real business you know I mean like we have a wicked [ __ ] product um we have really good people that are paying attention to what’s going on and and making sure that

Like [ __ ] doesn’t break and like we’re still do like we got more consistent traffic and we’re able to like we’re able to monetize less traffic better like before with my other thing it was like unless I was getting a million views of video three times a week we

Weren’t going to grow and so like now like I can get you know 20 to 50K views a video three times a week and you’re still gonna do fine and like so it’s just much more efficient I’m having way more fun doing it it’s very clear

Exactly what I need to do I’m also like nine months into it now so like I’ve kind of gotten used to it and I know like what the process supposed to look like I’m working with some really good agencies like that’s a different thing like I hired I hired Moser you know

Jeremy Moser I do know Jeremy yeah and of course he’s a vet bro like he’s been in the infos space for long enough where he just knows how this [ __ ] goes he’s talked to enough guys who are doing multiple Millions a month where like he just knows how to guide me so he’s

Awesome Ben’s awesome like my closes are awesome like everything’s just good bro do you think there like within info whenever I’ve seen really successful launches go it’s almost like someone has this personal brand and there’s pent up demand basically where someone is doing this core thing already right so like

You were doing copy you’re doing your agency and there are other people we look at where your fellow Canadian Brooke who is doing like high ticket Ecom for for however long and then he then he goes and launches the coaching program and obviously it rips there it’s kind of an interesting scenario because

You didn’t necessarily have it all be pent up demand because obviously you had some info beforehand but like when you rep pivoted did you just find like a huge kind of release of that kind of pent up demand initially like is that what you think it kind of was yeah I

Think that’s a good way to put it I think like I built an audience of buyers for years without selling anything really right like with Twitter with uh I mean Tik Tok I was kind of selling but like not as hard as I could have been um

And I I feel like I was still giving way more than I was selling and so it was it was uh um yeah I I think that’s a good way to put I also think bro like because it’s not it’s not always like views to money like a ratio that everyone abides

By it really is about like the quality and intangibles of the personal brand and I’m not here to like toot my own horn I just think for some reason I’ve done something where you know people just resonate with what I say I think it’s because like I kind of look like

Them and I sound like like I’m just I’m a little [ __ ] I look like a kid bro and like the way I talk about it which it is true like I kind of just like stumbled into copywriting and I stumbled into to like I kind of worked for it but also

Like it was kind of it really wasn’t that hard like I don’t know if you feel this way with your business but like do you feel like because everyone pedestalize 10K a month everyone says like yo this is so hard like most people will never get there like Norm normies

Right I’m not like not in like a brory way but I’m just saying like regular people who are from our hometowns tend to sort of think that 10K month is like this insane number right and then you get there and you realize that it wasn’t really that hard right I suppose it is

In a sense like it it simultaneously is and isn’t like I think in the beginning what you have is like your own beliefs actively work against you because you you haven’t seen this happen for yourself and like so often I think for for anything to happen to you you have

To see someone who you can kind of relate to do it if you get me and like for me at least even like if I were to look at let’s say uh info people over in the US I wouldn’t really relate to them as much

As I would to to someone local and still at least for me in Ireland there aren’t many people doing it at least not that not that well in the UK there are plenty but not not really not really so in Ireland yeah I think that’s almost the first thing where it’s almost like

Releasing the seal it’s almost like being in the pub and taking your first piss of the evening and then you just can’t stop pissing you know like that’s that’s nearly what it is it’s like breaking the seal in a sense and you’re like okay right well I probably go

Higher than this probably significantly higher than this actually and so yeah I think it’s almost a slow journey to to go there because like your beliefs really do shape your reality I know some people don’t don’t like hearing that kind of that kind of talk but they

Really shape your reality it’s it’s like your beliefs are extremely impactful um so yeah I’d say like simultaneously is and isn’t hard to hit that that amount of money but then like it’s almost like one of the slowest Milestones because then like we’re saying you break the

Seal and then you’re like okay [ __ ] like what else can I do and you kind of at that point you maybe have a bit of process because you’re quite Scrappy to get to that point you don’t necessarily have a process around everything that you’re doing you don’t know how to

Consistently get clients you don’t know how to consistently deliver at a high level without being stressed out of your mind but then when you kind of figure that piece out of like being more consistent almost with it then I I think it I think you start to and when you

Start to really get into process then I think that that massively like massively changes the game for you um so that’s pretty sick but I mean I I definitely would notice because I’ve I’ve got experience in the in the coaching World from how I began an online business business within a

Coaching program like absolutely the hardest part is sustaining it like that’s that’s definitely the hardest part even like sustaining a personal brand so there’s the pend up demand stage and you hadn’t really sold anything you built up your audience over a long stretch of time going into

Sustaining it like what has what had to change for you to kind of make it more more of a long-term business you changed the source of well you changed having multiple sources of traffic but what else from the traffic sources to the team to like what you’re doing to work

On the product and how you’re fulfilling like how does that change when you were bringing it from I suppose that one style of coaching business where it could be someone just with a personal brand and a calendly link and then there’s the the real coaching business

That you’ve sort of been able to build like what kind of changes had to occur for you I suppose to make that more sustainable a that’s a good one that’s a good question I think I mean obviously just like growing your audience is like super important like if you think about

It like I think I I only have like 60k on Instagram and like I got a decent following on Tik Tok I think um I could probably hit 500 the next few months which is decent but um I mean like there’s still such a big like subset of the population that wants this

Information and hasn’t even seen you yet so like that’s one thing you have to understand is like the the point is really just to like kind of grow the pie um I think the the difference is also like how good is your product let’s use the client sension boys as an

Example and I know that you kind of you briefly worked with them too as a coach so like you kind of you might know like more of the inw working than I do I’ve been I’ve been in Clin Ascension for like I think like a year and a half now

Never see you in there well I’m on the I’m on The Mastermind calls I see I see they’re solid right where they started kind of like on Twitter like we’ll help you grow your agency here book a call and then they you know they they spent a

Lot of time and energy and money on products where they have like however many coaches and however many accountability coaches and like success managers and stuff like that they have like really solid course content um and they have like an entire library of content elsewhere like on Twitter and uh

On YouTube where like they can they like they can bring in someone from like Word of Mouth where it’s like yo these client Essen you guys are really good it’s like oh who’s Cent Ascension Google it YouTube shows up you binge you know 10 hours of YouTube from Daniel and then

Next thing you know like you follow on Twitter and you’re seeing this stuff for a while but it’s still maybe too expensive you don’t but then you book a call three months in and you’re like you know what I’m going to do this and then you close like having just sort of like

An entire world out there that like people can participate in with you and to basically be in your funnel like just a bigger funnel and that doesn’t mean like a sales page it means like how much do you have on YouTube how much do you have on Twitter like what do your

Channels look like um like and again bro it’s just a belief thing like you know that businesses can get that big you know what I mean like you know that like guys like Cole Gordon can do three four million a month like and Cole Gordon

Like I don’t even think he really has a personal brand like not really noosing on Instagram and Tik Tok I don’t think so I think he’s like mostly just running with ads like he’s just got a really talented media buying team which if all else fails you can just do that like you

Can just hire a really good media buyer and just like restructure your offer and make it so that like you don’t even have to really be involved in it like I don’t even think most of C Gordon students know who he is you know yeah [ __ ] I

Think I got into his stuff in like 2021 definitely didn’t have the money for it at the time but that didn’t really stop me and like yeah no it wasn’t like he really wasn’t leading it even at that point like far far in away he was really

Removed from it but yeah I suppose like a lot of a lot of the I I think do would you say a lot of the success has almost come from the the Renaissance of the Webby funnel and Ben Bader doing his doing his absolute just working his magic on that

Front wees were a thing in like 20s like the auto Webby was a thing in like 2017 and then it just went out of fashion or maybe I just didn’t notice that it was still going on and then at the Webby is just it’s like it’s like a Star Wars

Episode M just return to the Webby you know yeah bro honestly man I think like Webb’s definitely help for us like that was just such an easy way for us to again grow the pie that’s what Sanjay says you ever talked to Sanjay I never

Have no but I was I think I was Ben’s told me about him a few times yeah I’ll have to Miami one of these days sanj a sneaky genius bro because like his I mean up until recently because he’s tweeting more seriously now but you know

Most people know him as just like a goofy funny guy because that’s what he that’s what he is like he’s a goofy guy but he’s also like he really understands info businesses for some reason like because he never even had an info business but he just knows it better

Sometimes than I do and that’s what that’s one thing he always says just like grow the pie um but like that’s what Webb’s did for us where it’s like if I go to my hyros and I look at like lifetime leads basically from like when we started it’s like it was like 880,000

People that um that like over time like at some point had opted in for a Webby 80,000 like not all of them showed up I think like maybe 20% of those people would actually show up like like across no probably like 40 or 50 but like that helps a lot

Cuz it’s just and also like I think that’s something I’m uniquely good at is like I can entertain for an hour definitely I have your attention like it might be it might be a different challenge for me to like entertain on Tik Tok because I have to like I have to

Hook you in and so like if if you don’t like my hook then you’re not gonna like the rest of it but like I feel like if I have you and I’m and I’m in front of an audience like I can I can make people feel something like I can I can teach

Well I can make you laugh I can you know definitely that’s one thing that I think I have over other people because like um my offer honestly to be fair like wasn’t that like kop NBA by itself like I don’t know the coaching really helps like

You’re way more likely to get results if you’re in Inner Circle um but like for $699 just pushing that on a webie like we did pretty well like there were there were some weeks where like we went nuts like I can tell you after but like what kind of conversion rate would

You say you would see compared to other people just from having the skill of being able to Captivate people live like that would you say it’s like a 50% increase compared to where most people are uh yeah I mean like listen I I have been present for a lot of Ben’s clients

Wees there are some people that just rip because people love them like miles for example everyone loves miles I who doesn’t love miles he’s the best and so like whenever he does his thing then it’s like like his conversion rate is is crazy too um but like I’ve seen a

Lot of guys that just like they get 2,000 people live and they can’t sell [ __ ] because no one cares you know what I mean no one cares about them no one cares about the offers just a shitty combination but like and honestly bro I would see a difference in conversion

Rate depending on like how I felt that day like if I like small tweaks where I could deliver the same way but like you could just tell like I wasn’t feeling it I would make less money which is why I had a ritual every single time I would

Always do like the exact same thing every Thursday like and I wouldn’t [ __ ] it up I wouldn’t [ __ ] with my Juju I had to to have a glass of Seven Daughters Moscato before that sometimes I was too drunk I there there been a couple times

Where I was doing wees and I was like too [ __ ] up like I shouldn’t I couldn’t even talk but I still had to like get through the presentation getting getting homed on the Webby is [ __ ] jokes yeah I think that would almost make you better in a

Way do you know if you’re if you’re just flipping to what you’re saying and and I think people would kind of dig that in a way they’re they’re going be like yeah this is just good fun this is like this is like a pregame really here and we’re

Just on the Webby for for like copy MBA it’s just it just sounds like good fun overall I’m sure Ben’s there getting getting wavy as well with you no Ben has to say silver he’s gotta be locked in but um yeah man I mean like it’s kind

Of like it’s kind of like spitting game at at the at the club right like if you’re too drunk like the girls gonna be like what are you talking about but like if you’re if you’re like one two drinks in and you’re just like ever so slightly feeling yourself like that’s the best

Place to be honestly I wish I could live like that all the time we call it I I call that being merry yeah it’s a state of talk about when you’re just merry you’re not really drunk you’re just in good spirits it’s just yeah just that Goldy lock down but when so Webb’s

Helped but from going from personal branding well now you’re with working with Moser and from what I hear Instagram is if you get it right is just insane like absolutely insane compared to other platforms probably because the DM function on it is so sophisticated I

Say that’s a huge part of it but yeah like from the traffic side did you just did you diversify P personal branding like was this was that like a big goal of yours to to do so to to like make that traffic really sustainable and just

Sort of almost diversify it a bit even if it costs a bit more I mean yeah and I do pay a lot to agencies for Content like I have YouTube going too and like my goal for this year was to really just kind of be everywhere um so like I do

Have Tik Tok and I have Instagram and I have YouTube one of my favorite things to do honestly bro I don’t really do it that often because it’s super like energetically tax ing but like I like to go live on multiple platforms like I have like three

Phones and like drug dealer out here yeah yeah um a course dealer and I got like little tripods and so I’ll set them up on there I’ll go live on like Instagram Tik Tok and then go like stream on YouTube and I’ll just like have an

Audience of like four or 500 people who are just like watching me talk my [ __ ] um and like that to me is fun and by the way go on live really helps but like to go back to Instagram like dude Instagram is like a funnel in itself like you have

Everything you need and it’s so organic feeling like you can what you can do like okay if you okay so obviously like you can do it straight organic whereas like you just have reels pumping all the time I have I have a buddy who’s like a

Fitness guy and he’s just so funny that like every single time he posts have you seen daddy Wellness I don’t think I thought rings a bell but I don’t think I have seen him he talks really fast like he’s like what’s up [ __ ] we got a zenino

On [ __ ] li like and he’s like that guy you know that guy I don’t [ __ ] no I don’t I wish I did though yeah he bro every video he posts gets like hundreds of thousands or millions of views if he has something to sell he’d be printing

Because he’s got so much traffic but and he grows really fast but like dude when someone sees you whether organically or with ads or whatever and they go to your Instagram they have everything they need to know about you on Instagram and you curate to show them exactly what you

Want your top three pin posts what are they maybe it’s a really viral video talk about your story maybe you have like an offer in there and then maybe you have like just like one of your best educational videos and then you have stories that are constantly being

Refreshed every 24 hours you have your bio which tells you a little bit about you um you have highlights so you can talk about like student results or whatever here and you can talk about [ __ ] you’re doing here you like do lifestyle stuff here so they can see how

You live and then if you’re consistently getting like a couple thousand followers a week which isn’t that crazy and you do the occasional DM call Action and you have a Setter in there with many chat you can make 100 200 500 100K a month solely from Instagram if you have it dialed and

There are people that will do that they know that their Instagram is so [ __ ] dialed because the content on there is so good and their pin posts are good their highlights are good their stories are always good and they will just run ads just follower ads to get [ __ ]

Instagram followers and so like the only goal is to get them to follow you and you know that once they follow you they will convert at some point and you can sell whatever the [ __ ] you want you can sell a coaching thing you could do like

Sort of like a like a like a an autoresponder like DM me to get this thing for free and it’s like link to you know for some free thing and then you become a lead and then they hit you with email SMS and then like they just

Convert you over time and you can promote webbi on there like bro Instagram is a hack I wish Tik Tok was that engaged but it’s not Tik Tok is really sort of like it’s almost like TV you know what I mean like people don’t see you as like a real person I’ve

Noticed that when like I make a Tik Tok it’s me like it’s me making the video it’s me talking on there people will in the comments refer to me in like third person like they’ll ask each other like do you guys know what he does for for a

Living it’s like bro I’m here comment what do you do for a living I’ll tell you like like or although say like oh my God he sounds like he’s on crack as if I’m not reading it like like Tik Tok is a totally different thing you can’t do

Stories you can’t really engage with your audience I can’t just post a story and have like all of my followers see it otherwise does money does money chat even work on Tik Tok I don’t think so because it’s an integration with meta so I don’t know if it does Tik Tok or

YouTube or anything else like that or even Twitter but um how did it grow then like you don’t know how like you don’t have to share numbers but it’s more so like in terms of like the team then got built out so like at what stage like

Almost what problems do you have to solve at each point because it’s sort of like okay it goes from let’s say it goes from know X Revenue level to 3x Revenue level the business has now fundamentally changed to where now you need you need far more people involved you need to

Bring more people into the business almost when does that change within within a coaching business to to where it sort of becomes more built out like that like did you and when was that and how quick did you have to do all that I know it’s a massively loaded question

But mostly like when did that transformation Point come and how does how do you handle that because it’s very Niche problem I think yeah yeah I mean I I feel like it’s still trans you know I mean like with an agency you’ll probably see some similarities where it’s like

It’s just a balancing act of sales and product where it’s like so I hired my first closer and so before that I was closing my own deals I I think I I went 32 for 32 or sorry 31 for 32 there was this one guy named Max that

I couldn’t close and he had like all think about an objection and I’d never been through [ __ ] closer cartel so I didn’t know what to do what to do with that and I’ve just been bullying people where I just been like I’d literally be like bro like this offer is gone like I

Got a call in two minutes like if you’re gonna if you’re gonna buy here’s the link if not like bye like see you later and so like that was working for me because like I was the offer run and people just wanted to talk to me um and

So and then I hired a closer because I was doing all the Fulfillment and all of the [ __ ] sales myself and I was busy bro I was working all day long and then um and then I’d have I I I got a closer in and so he started selling more and so

My only job was to just drive traffic and book calls and then so we got more people in there that I couldn’t handle myself so I had to hire coaches so so I brought in my brother and I brought in like just people I knew um and then I

Had to like add more to the course content because like I just need to provide more value and then I was like okay the product’s so good let’s just add more on the sales side um and so like I mean we got our product team built the [ __ ] out we got

Our sales team we’re working on it you know what I mean like I have two closers and I have a Setter in my DMs and I have a dialer who is new so we’re we’re working on him um but I mean like I don’t really think it’s missing anything right

Now right now the biggest challenge is like we’re we’re testing a lot of ads and so like Ben is awesome at everything but like shut up it might be shut up Ben bro but it might be worth like having a consultant come in and be like all right

This is the type of stuff that we know is gonna work and I’m in a mastermind right now with this guy who took Dan lock from like 200k mon to like five million a month so like remember Dan lock bro Dan lock was like such a meme like back in the day I

Kind of missed that but I remember going back and like learning about him I remember some of one of his like staged videos like back in back in Vancouver I think it was that he was that he was in and yeah like the man the man was just a

Walking meme but yeah he clearly did he clearly did absolute numbers as well but what was the one he was the OG High ticket closer wasn’t he that was his program it was that yeah I remember he was doing copyrighting for a while but he also did High ticket sales yeah which

I wonder what he scaled more I’m pretty high TI cler was the one I saw more of yeah I mean dude that was a great [ __ ] offer back in the day um he was years ahead of his time he really was and honestly the fact that he was on copyrighting too is insane

Because like there was no one else talking about that it was all like corporate people like Alex Katon she’s good and she’s got a great personal brand but like she was more so preaching to like people who already had jobs and is like hey if you want to do

Copywriting like here’s how you do it it was like very very corporate like Millennial agency type [ __ ] and Dan lock was like catering to the hustlers which is like kind of where you you want to be you know line here but yeah so then for for the next for the next while obviously

YouTube is now going to be a huge thing and like YouTube I think in a way is like the daddy of the all where it has so many well okay it’s the daddy of the allall already for one key characteristic which is that the content

That you put up there is Evergreen in a way that it’s not on any other platform I A friend of mine uh over in Dubai who runs like a a very successful YouTube channel in the fitness space he is a guy who’s part-time who just just literally changes thumbnails

On his old videos like that’s literally what what the guy does and he he says he he has so many so many videos that he’s put up in like 2017 like he’s been in the game a while there his he has this guy who goes back redesigns thumbnails

Changes the thumbnails and then the video might just pop off like randomly years later I remember Sam ens remember Sam ens like just went fully fully Jesus do you remember his cardboard plaque ads that he ran in like Black Friday 20 or 2021 and um he he was saying that

Consulting.com they he posted no new YouTube videos for like three years and the company stayed at the same level of profit like it it it shanked him like he shanked the team he was doing the same amount of profit he was years prior so YouTube has that characteristic where

You can put up a video there and like two years later it could get picked up like there could be someone in 2026 who’s watching this video now and just because it just because it picked up traction at that time so do you do you think YouTube will kind of be that you

Know once nailed like like you have Instagram Tik Tok and Twitter kind of down do you think this YouTube will definitely be sort of the the long-term Dy of them all I do think that um it’s also a lot more competitive there’s a lot of people making the same [ __ ] YouTube video as

Iman godi like bro seven habits that made me a [ __ ] billionaire like everyone’s trying to do that everyone’s trying to do the same sort of thing I think I tweeted like a ago I was like you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself post top one top 1% man

Content bro yes because like that’s what everyone kind of like eventually goes to because they just know it works um I don’t know man honestly I feel like I and I have a good like I have Cam Presley with me too helping out with with YouTube and like they’re they’re

Solid like they make [ __ ] look really good they’re they’re great editors and everything um like you have to be creative bro like now I have to really stand out like back if I started four years ago I probably could have done that like Iman style sort of like Cookie

Cutter vid um and probably done really well with it and be at Ean levels now I also don’t like filming YouTube bro like it’s natural I don’t enjoy it like it’s I would I would have thought that would have come natur more naturally to you than nearly okay well

Obviously writing comes naturally more most naturally to you in a sense but I would have thought that just riffing on a topic almost kind of like Daniel fio St more so yeah but I don’t really make those kinds of videos like I I go in with a script those are the only videos

I script I don’t script Tik toks ever um or or like I never like make a plan for emails I’m gonna write or tweets or anything like that like it’s always just off the Dome I can’t do YouTube off the Dome because I’d have to like have the

Idea and then call my [ __ ] guys over and wait three hours them to show up and then and then film a video I guess I could set up a [ __ ] studio in like a bedroom or something but like I don’t know then I have to like I don’t know

That’s why I hire the agency because I just don’t want to do that I don’t want to like film my own [ __ ] um and like that’s a luxury that like Luke has like I like that Luke can just like be woken up by a thought at 2 am and turn on the

Camera and like make a video um but I can’t do that and so like when I’m doing it the way I film it like I have jump Cuts in mind I know where the jump cuts are going to be so I have to like say a

Line and then pause and then think about what I’m gonna say next and then say line and then pause with Tik Tok I just rip it you know what I mean like that I enjoy more but honestly bro the thing I enjoy most right now is writing emails

Like to my list I started doing that again like pretty much every day I don’t think I missed a day this year yet maybe I have a couple days but um but dude like right now that’s like the most fun I’m having because like I know these

People are warm to me and they know who I am and what I’m about and they like me and I feel safe there and I kind of feel like I can just say whatever the [ __ ] I want and I have it does that rip for coaching

Email oh really like we we sell to the list of purchasers but like I have a list of like 65,000 like engaged and I get like a [ __ ] 50% open like bro I I got a nice I got a nice list and like I get replies too like um I just sent an

Email this morning and I got like probably 50 replies just like people saying like oh great email or saying like oh like talk more about this or whatever like and I feel like it doesn’t have the pressure of like I have to have a hook here because like people already

They as long as a subject Line’s good I can say whatever I want in the thing but like with Tik Tok it’s like the whole video has to be geared towards like making people want to keep watching and I don’t have as much freedom but with

Email I have way more freedom because I can say whatever I want and like I don’t have to worry about algorithms or anything like that and I know it’s G to get seen No Matter What by like however many thousand like 30,000 people gotcha yeah it’s funny here because like I get

The sense like you talked about actually in the very beginning of how a lot of things have kind of just happened for you in a sense like you didn’t necessarily like massively plan everything out it’s kind of like all right the growth’s there I guess I’ll go

For the growth you know seems that that seems like it would be a prudent thing to do but are you someone who massively plans out into the future like let’s say for the future of copy MBA like for the year 2024 do do you have huge plans or

Are you like The Joker telling Harvey ENT in the hospital bed that he’s like I’m not a schemer bro I kind of just just but whatever happens happens I mean I do have kind of like a vague vision of like what I want it to

Be like um so right now the way it works is like Inner Circle it’s a multi four figure investment we have financing too so if you’re poor and you can’t afford it we can Finance 300 bucks a month um and you get in we mostly focus on

Training you how to write because the clients will kind of come after you understand that we do teach you how to get clients but like the biggest thing is we teach you how to write well and then what we also have is like we have leaden for the students so like um like

If you go to higher high hopy mba.com right now you’ll see our website where like all you have to do is fill out a job form and we’ll connect you with the copyright for free so it’s basically like the the um like kind of like a co co Gordon

Model where like you pay him 15 grand to like connect you with a a closer or whatever we don’t [ __ ] charge you anything we it’s zero like we just monetize on the student end and then um businesses get to have copy for free which means we have essentially infinite

Lead flow for these students um like and it’s just a huge value ad and so like I what I want is to like kind of start to remove myself from the product a little bit more and just have like at one point like 20 coaches um who are all going one-on-one with these

People and just like showing them how to do what we know how to do and then like once they’re good we just send them leads and then it’s like more of like a recruiting thing almost but like because there’s so much Demand on the on the B2B side because we’re not charging them

Anything like I feel like it’s a really sweet [ __ ] deal like marketer higher I don’t know what they charge like I don’t think they charge the the talent anything but they charge the businesses to make the connection um so we flipped it so like I don’t know I feel like that is something

That has potential to scale because like people want clients and they don’t really want to do the work to get it but they’ll still kind of know how to do it and then like they can just join and then get a client if they’re good as

Long as they like actually do the work in train so like I feel like we could get that to the point where it’s like come one come all where it’s like doesn’t have to be like a perfect fit if you want to be a copywriter and you’re

Willing to work and you can actually do it then we will give you opportunities just sort of like an automatic money printer for them that’s amazing I I think there they I see a lot of like B Toc companies be almost developing this B2B arm where it kind of just makes

Sense for them to do that they almost and it’s generally a recruitment element to it um I wonder what that is I I wonder does it just make log I mean in your case you’re probably like this just makes logical sense for for me to make the connection here because people know you

And Trust to you and they’re like okay well let’s they can and then they can sort of just take skilled people out of there it just makes sense the okay so the reason why people are are turning their B Toc into a B2B is because the B Toc info has inherently no Enterprise

Value you can’t sell that um and so like for someone to be able to sell uh what is it is it uh closers doc closers is that Co Gordon I think it’s like close.io I think that’s him something like that whatever like for them to sell that they can’t sell Co

They’d have to sell Co Gordon with the thing and then someone would pay 2X and then Cole Gordon would make [ __ ] like not a lifechanging amount of money then he’d have a job for the next [ __ ] five years till the term’s done now that makes no sense so they’re saying like

All right so if we just build a recruiting company on the back of this and we can sell that and then just have the info’s cash flow and then we’re just basically acquiring customers for the recruiting thing requiring ing talent for like profitably and then we can just

Grow the [ __ ] out of that and then sell that for however many millions that’s not really my goal I think I want to just like run up a because like bro this is not gonna be the thing that I do forever this is not my [ __ ]

Magnumopus it is like I right now is all I think about it’s like my number one [ __ ] focus on everything it’s my favorite business I love doing it we’re getting results we’re making money it’s great but like I’m 24 like if I was 34

And I needed an exit so I could buy a [ __ ] house and like all that [ __ ] like I would care more about like building some sort of Enterprise Value I don’t feel like I’m leaving that much money on the table by not doing that my

Goal honestly is to do this and build a [ __ ] Wicked product and run it for like three to five years cash out 10 15 20 mil and then like just invest that into like something that’s going to just multiply that over the next 10 years into 100 that’s the goal gotcha yeah

Makes a lot of sense yeah and it’s a it’s a sick plan there yeah like as in yeah it doesn’t have to be like too strict you know really in reality I mean how how much of this as well would you say has been from you moving to to

Miami like just in terms of the people you’ve met where like youve obviously been like you knew these people before you went there but even like for me going to Dubai you meet what I would call like GTA characters like people who just give you side quests like they’re

Just whatever you say there can be negatives and positives attached to this but unique characters come across your lap if you’re in a place like Dubai or Miami I would say that could be good that could be bad it could be both but moving from Canada where you’re

Originally from would you say moving to Miami kind of put the growth on steroids a bit with who you’ve been able to me or did the environment change much for you or yeah what was that like honestly man not really like it def I’m sure it’s helped I haven’t really tracked how

Obviously like the some of the people that I work with here are in Miami like I have my content guys like Prest and cam live in in Miami Ben lives in Miami s lives in Miami um um but like other than that like I feel like I could leave

Now and the business would probably actually grow faster because I’d be less distracted like i’ probably been making more content and doing more fun [ __ ] like I could probably live anywhere doesn’t really matter like because everything’s remote you know I the the value that I get from

Miami is more so like I get to enjoy the fruit of my labor and it keeps me more more motivated like I’ve kind of told this story before and like you were there for this like in in my life when I was kind of going through this firsthand

Is like when I was living in Canada I kind of had nothing going on like I was making money like summer 21 just from copywriting I was doing between like 20 and 40K a month and I was making good money for my age and for my like for

Where I lived like everything was great bro and I I but I didn’t feel rich because I was still only spending like four grand a month I had no real friends I had a normal ass car I wasn’t really doing anything exciting I didn’t really

Go out I didn’t do anything bro like my life was boring and so like it didn’t really motivate me to do better like I was like okay like even if I double my income and I start making like 60 to 80 grand a month what does that actually

Get me if I’m not gonna be able to use it in any way and so like the value that I get from Miami is like I know for a fact that I can just like choose what I want to do on a Saturday night and have

A great time like me and me and Ben you know Jimmy Jimmy far yeah homie he he just moved to Miami a couple months ago and like me Ben and him are like kind of like the trio now and so like we all kind of came here together like single

But like now we’re all kind of cuffed up you know what I mean like I’m cuff cuffed Jim’s kind of cuffed and Ben like wants to be cuffed um and so like we’ll go on the little triple dates or whatever and like we’ll like take these

Girls like we’ll go to a cool restaurant and we’ll go get drink somewhere and then we’ll go to a club or something like that like that to me is the most fun thing ever or like Griff was just down here and so like I could take Griff

Out we can go out to dinner like we have a good time run into random people like even just going to lunch like we go to this spot across the street and um like we’ll just be sitting there and like [ __ ] some promoter guy that we know

Will Roll up with us and like he’ll sit with us and just talk [ __ ] or whatever be like oh what are you guys doing and then [ __ ] sneo gets in here and we’re like hanging out with sneo and then American Income pulls up Adam you know Adam from American Income I don’t guy

Homie um he just has a big audience and he’ll like do like what do you do for a living on the street um and uh and then like [ __ ] you know what I mean like the boys just roll up and then it’s like the cafeteria at lunch like in high

School it’s just like everyone’s just like sitting there like one dude’s freestyling we’re roasting this guy over here here because he wears a dumbass shirt like that’s usually miles like miles you’re wearing your sellam shirt again bro he’s like oh Bo you know I mean just fun that’s what I like about

Miami is like there’s really a sense of community and like kind of like we talked about before like I have those like 20 to 30 to 50 peripheral external friends that like are just kind of in my life and it makes everything a lot more

Exciting bro um and I have a girl down here like I would so much rather take my girl out in Miami than [ __ ] Burlington Ontario Canada I get you yeah I mean did you consider moving anywhere else prior to Miami oh man I the reason I’m down here

Is I mean obviously the sun’s great and the city’s beautiful there beaches and water but like I came here because all my boys were here like we just we decided to move kind of to Miami together like it was like summer 22 was like July or August um Ben was like in

Florida at his parents house and um him and Sanjay wanted to like look at apartments they were going to originally moveing together in like a house or something like that I think they started talking about that in Greece when we went to Greece and then um oh and Danny

Too Danny was gonna because Danny’s already down here but like Danny was here Luke was here um Ben and Sanji were coming they were like gonna move and so I was like well [ __ ] I might as well just like and I started spending more time there and I just fell in love with

The city I started to get to know it a little bit better so I didn’t feel as like as much of like an alien um and so yeah I mean it just like happened to work out that way but I if like if everyone I loved and knew was in Austin

Uh Austin’s kind of gay I probably still but like New York sick you know what I mean like New York sick out in the cold together like that would be cool I wouldn’t mind that I love New York I went there for like it was like four days uh around Christmas time so

Beautiful a dude I definitely New York is somewhere I definitely do like obviously I live in Dubai primarily but London I would definitely consider like l i guess like that that’s literally for a European versus like a North American it’s like literally London is New York Dubai is Miami basically it’s that those

Are literally your options um like I I love this stes don’t get me wrong but definitely European at heart kind of always will be but yeah [ __ ] man I I need to get over and visit Miami because obviously all the boys are there obviously I chat to

Ben very often chat to like don’t really chat to the other Lads too much but myself and Ben are obviously quite close so I definitely go over I’ll just arrive on announced one day and be like right bro like you’re on the couch like here I

Am I got a Cali king there’s more than enough room where it’s still like it’s not even gay if we yeah just keep our socks on bro it’ll be fine you know like that’s the thing you sleep with a ball cap on that’s straight as [ __ ] [ __ ] hell yeah I might have to

Be done man just one of those like Long John like like Christmas like wiie winky kind of kind of hats like that I think that’ll be yeah bro exactly just those pajama hats um but sik mate yeah any travel plans do you think like this year do you

Think you’ll do you think you’ll you’ll come over to to Europe like at any point like for me I would say like my ideal axis cuz I’ve I’m kind of deciphering this now obviously I’m in Argentina right now um which is [ __ ] random but I do think I have my locations now

Like patterned which is kind of what I wanted to to do so I’ll have four months a year in Dubai four months a year in Marb in Spain um obviously I speak Spanish fluently as well so that’s fine it comes in handy here as well um and

Then probably four four months in London and then while I’m in Marb and London like dotting back to Ireland for for trips for trips back that’s what I’m kind of thinking but do you think you’ll you’ll bounce around for any travel this year anything in in your

Plans yeah I mean dude like all the spots you just mentioned are like outside of Dubai to be honest I don’t know why I just have like no real interest in going it just seems so far away and it just like just we I get weird vibes from Dubai not gonna lie I

Just feel like it feel like so far away Dubai Dubai is interesting right like I’ve my opinion has changed every time I’ve been there so I’ve like done three stints there um my opinion has changed each time to now I just appreciate it for what it is like it’s so unique but

If you run a business it’s like the the environment there is just phenomenal to do so um I would say the the downside is that have you ever seen The Truman Show with Jim Carrey I know exactly yes yeah like after probably about 10 weeks in a

Row in Dubai like especially if I’m from somewhere where it’s obviously very cold lots of mountains and by the Sea so like that’s you kind of Desire where you’re from like the kind of landscape that you’re used to and there’s none of that really in Dubai obviously it’s the sea

But the sea doesn’t even feel like the sea in Dubai because it doesn’t refresh you it’s like getting into a bath um so it’s not like getting into cold salt water you know where you just you feel completely revitalized after it but it’s an absolutely incredible place in terms

Of an environment to grow businesses an environment to get your health in order and all that kind of thing and just and just put your head down and work and you can enjoy you can enjoy things every 15th car probably is a super car like no exaggeration that’s why I’m choosing

Number 15 that’s like actually an accurate description um it’s so clean and safe like you could eat your dinner off the foot path not even joking and you know you like I’ve never locked my door once in any apartment I’ve been in in Dubai don’t don’t lock any doors

Whatever it is it’s so convenient I remember I was cooking it cooking a meal in in March in the in the house I do meal prep now I don’t cook anymore but I realized I didn’t have Sals and I was making like a stir fry kind of thing I I

Just got an app out called Kareem and I literally got some salt from a super market and it was there before I was done cooking like at my door and I just started shaking it into into the food and it was it was all sorted but there

Is that element of it where you’re where you’re like damn this is strange like Dubai has a couple of native varieties of NPC that aren’t present anywhere else in the world like I’ll give you a Flav a flavor of one is what I would call the Russian bimbo mother NPC and it’s like

This girl who’s like her lips are done like deadliest cat style like a fish um like her tits are done her ass has done all of that and has like a tube on wearing half nothing like fendy shoes and all this kind of thing and I was

There at a restaurant in this is probably about April time and this like Russian bimbo mother NPC was there with her two daughters they’re maybe seven or eight years old a piece and the girls are like throwing food at each other the two daughters like literally hurling

Food at each other while the the mother is there scrolling through her phone like fluid St like not not not taking notice of us and I’m looking I’m in my head I’m like this I’m looking through my peripheral vision I’m like is this actually happen happening in front of my

Eyes here is this really what’s going on then a crow comes down uh cuz I’m eating outside off this sort of off this sort of uh kind of shading umbrella takes the bulk of the food off of one of her daughter’s plates and flies off with it

And she doesn’t look up once and I was that was when I first thought of The Truman Show and started calling it trby at various points true true by yeah but but I it’s weird even saying that I actually really like the place I can’t

And I didn’t expect to feel that way I’m actually quite a big fan interesting would recommend a visit I I would like to see it I would like to see it I wouldn’t mind it but yeah to me that’s just that’s just so strange like that

I’ve heard a lot and I’ve also heard that like 90% of the women under 30 there are like prostitutes yeah I mean like not as there full-time job I wouldn’t say but yeah like there would like even normal enough girls could potentially be like doing side quests if you get me do you

Know like just like if if the if the price is right basically they would they would look at doing something because do you know you kind of you you like to think you wouldn’t do it if if if you were in that position but if someone is

Waving an just a ridiculous amount of money in front of your face and you’re you’re going to be like some like some people like you know it’s it’s the kind of the bill bar analogy where you was at Tiger Woods getting remember people were saying oh Tiger Woods shouldn’t have

Been cheating on his wife and he was like bro like you were you you did not have Like A Boss full of Swedish model is waiting to [ __ ] you after you got off the 18th ho like you don’t know what the Temptation was like so similarly you

Think God I would never do that but then if someone let’s say you’re you’re a normal person you don’t you you’re working you’re working a normal job over there you’re like an air hostess or something like that which is definitely an archetype kind of what I’m thinking

About over there like an Emirates air hostess someone waves like 50 Grand in front of your face for you to do nothing you’re like right that’s a damn payment on a house there for me to do something here I do that in my but but that that’s the kind of thing

That happens so it’s like it’s not like women going over there where like like that’s solely what they do don’t get me wrong if you’re in a uh like if you were in a fancy hotel like there like a couple of ones like near where my apartment is

Um like yeah if you go through the lobby you’ll see 70-year old dudes with like 25-year-old women who were just gorgeous like drop dead gorgeous and then the guy mutters something and they’ll start laughing like it’s the funniest thing they’ve ever heard you’re like right obviously I think uh something something

Something seems a bit bit off here um interesting I feel like that does exist in America too like definitely like la like West Coast that’s that’s definitely a West Coast thing I was I was thinking more so like women handing out like business cards like here’s my WhatsApp

Like if you need something let me know see the thing is if you got caught there it’s technically a highly punishable offense so it’s kind of like a story I can I can tell you about off air of like a story I heard but like

It’s it’s kind of like they it would be set up in a way where you always have plausable and liability right so it’s like you know no I was just I was just an assistant to this person you know kind of thing and like the money was changing hands for other reasons but

Then there’s obviously you know the real reason as to why money is changing hands but um but yeah bro I I’ll end with the final question here a bit of classic that I do like to ask is you be I think you began online bit in like three and a

Half years ago or four years ago yeah it was almost four and now it was like I like to say may 2020 May 2020 okay let’s say you have 20-year-old Mason there may 2020 and you could give him three bits of advice to sort of expedite the

Process to maybe get to where he wanted to get to or get to where you are now or maybe that wasn’t even the goal that’s where it just became apparent as you went on but what would be three bits of advice you would give to to younger

Mason on the on the way up so in terms of the in terms of like money advice I don’t think there’s anything I could really tell myself like I feel like not that I did everything perfectly but I’m glad I did everything in the order that

I did what I would say because like I had a lot of anxiet and bro I feel this even now like the anxiety of like what’s next where it’s like you don’t really know because like and this was like my dad in my ear like a lot he would tell

Me like okay this is great now but like what happens if you like lose these clients or like are you still gonna be doing this in you know three years like what happens if you like can’t get more clients and [ __ ] like that and I would always think that I always think like

[ __ ] what if he’s right like what if I actually can’t keep doing this business because I was so new I didn’t realize that businesses were supposed to grow kind of forever as long as you keep putting work in or at least stay where they’re at or grow really slow like 10%

A month or whatever the [ __ ] and so like I was always so worried about like what if I do get to a point where I’ve just exhausted the market and it just goes back down and I can’t figure out anything else I would tell them like bro

Everything is gonna be fine you always feel like that at any point like bro I felt like that like six months ago like I started copy NBA and I was so excited but I was also at like what if I can’t what like how am I gonna beat this in

2024 or 20125 like how am I going to keep progressing and um you always just figure it out bro maybe that’s just me maybe I figure it out but I I feel like that’s kind of true for everyone I’m sure you definitely have like you just

You you just figure it out and like you grow as a person so much every year that you do business because you’re doing things that nobody else is doing like you’re managing people you’re like taking risk you’re you’re putting yourself out there in ways that like most people don’t experience even into

Their 40s and 50s um and so you mature very quick and that just gives you more mental bandwidth to make decisions and figure out exactly what it is you want to do you know you know what I mean where it’s like you know what you you

Got to get to like a couple million in the bank and like even though that’s not enough to last you the rest of your life that’s like once you have like two Mill it’s hard to [ __ ] it up number one and two you could also like roll that

Into something that like gives you half a mill year to live on for the rest of your life and you’re never going to be completely [ __ ] and like you will get there just by making a series of like not [ __ ] decisions um and like I I feel like

That’s kind of true for everybody like for you to get to 2 m in the bank post tax um you know that’s like the goal I would just say like don’t worry so much like business is like a it’s supposed to be a fun game you know what I mean like

Obviously sometimes like it gets real and you really got to lock in but like for the most part bro like if you think about your day-to-day supposedly just you [ __ ] around you know what I mean like I [ __ ] around a lot I I I get on

Calls with my sales guys and I like talk [ __ ] to them like you know what I mean like it’s whatever like it’s it’s supposed to be fun like you just try [ __ ] out oh that didn’t work all right let’s try this thing oh that works let’s

Do more of it all right that’s done now let’s try something else like it’s it’s a game bro and like if you treat it like that and you just you’re light-hearted about it I feel like you will be rewarded I wrote an email about this actually um this morning I don’t know if

You saw this but it was like sign up to the list everyone yeah yeah it was like non- business money principles um and like one of them was like just give money away even if it’s uncomfortable um actually believe that you can make money for real like actually believe it like

Have conviction and then surround yourself with it constantly like honestly like as long as you just like you stay in it um and like you you really want it like it will come back to you like just it’s a weird sort of like non-economic thing to think about but

Like it’s more of a spiritual thing where it’s like as long as you believe that you’ll get it and you feel like you do all the things to make sure that you deserve it then you will sick sick advice mate well yeah thanks for coming on um where would you

Direct people to I suppose to kind of find out a bit more about what you do or or look at your your social show for for this audience and I’m just go on Twitter follow me on Twitter cardal Mason Instagram is all customers Tik tok’s customers Twitter is like for the

Homies you know that’s why I don’t sell on Twitter I never for the people like the bio for the people uhhuh that’s the one than man yeah appreciate it bro and uh yeah we’ll we’ll hopefully do this again sometime speak soon