In this Business Spotlight interview, we hear from Ben Dickenson, CEO of Theatre Hullabaloo, a performing arts company based out of Darlington.
Ben shares with us how he got into running Theatre Hullabaloo. It all started by becoming a writer at school, and from there he went from strength to strength. He loves leadership because it’s rewarding while challenging, with many responsibilities and makes you grow as a person.
Being a CEO is not for everyone, it can get lonely and full of challenges. Watch this video to share into Ben’s journey.
For more information visit: https://www.theatrehullabaloo.org.uk/
🔔 Want your business to be featured as our next Business Spotlight? Book in your FREE podcast slot today via our website:
https://www.businessspotlightseries.com
#business #entrepreneur #advice #podcast #podcasts #businessowner #businesstips #businesstipsforsuccess #podcasting #growth #businessgrowth #businesslessons #businesslesson #businessessentials #howtostartabusiness #businessstartup #businessstrategy #businesspodcast #motivational #motivation #thebusinessspotlight
Buenos Ben thank you for joining us today at business Spotlight Series today I’m excited to introduce Ben Dickinson CEO of the hula Balo the Thea is a Performing Arts company based out of Bar Road Darlington welcome Ben thank you great be here so Ben I’m very excited to
Know a bit more about what you do and for how long you’ve been doing it so um Holo I’ve not been here that long just just shy of a year um but I’ve been working in leadership roles in the Arts um uh and creative sectors for on
And off for quite a long time um all my career really since I left drama school uh and but also have done some work in the charitable sector in organizations that work with children families and in the and in local government as well um and somewhere along the way also
Produced a a number one rated Regional breakfast commercial breakfast show and uh wrote a couple of books and did some other bits and pieces along the way that were uh in and around the creative Industries or about film or wherever it might be so yeah that’s that’s me and
Where I’m at brilliant so Ben how how do you end up doing this how do you end up where you are today uh well the start of the story is being nine years old and for reason I think maybe because I like books and watching things that I wanted
Decided I wanted to write something and B I actually bashed out 30 pages of a novel I remember on an old typewriter which I think my dad has still got hidden away somewhere and probably gets out to embarrass me occasionally because it was a niney old’s book but um the
Truth is that I think I was I was seen as quite bright at school and was expected to go and do very well at University but became disenchanted with formal education and by the time I was at my a levels I was about to drop off the map of education and was more
Attracted to other teenage Pursuits that probably weren’t as conducive to a successful futuring career um and then uh Geo Brian sharpa tutor at the six home College I was at uh recognized the the spark and said do do you want to write something what do you mean write
Something do you want to write a play and we’ll put it on at the at the college we’ll make we’ll produce it for you but I was like okay um I’ll give that a go that play ran sold out over several nights one couple of awards and
I thought okay I can do something here there’s something I can do then went to drama school then did a masters in film um and television and very quickly found myself doing as is often the case of people in the in the creative Industries doing bits of freelance work whether
That was for corporates or Charities or or local authorities or Library services or Community projects um using the the creative skills I had but nearly all of those I found very quickly I fell into managing those projects um overseeing the budgets recruiting other staff doing the Strategic bit of thinking to make
Them into things that were were greater than the sum of their parts and over time that that evolved into being uh the leader of various organizations and projects and or being asked by people to come and take responsibility for the business leadership of a particular charity in a particular particular area
Um or you know come and executive produce our program in this region that we want to do in the in creative and cultural organizations and then I think at some point you kind of go you want to be your own Master not other people’s Masters I think that’s quite important
But your own master and be the person who’s awake in the middle of the night worrying if all the decisions are right and accountable for everything responsible for everything but probably only doing about 10% of it um and that’s that’s where I end up at hullo there’s also something about values though the
Organization I’m at now is a business and a charity um it’s driven by charitable objectives that are we believe every child is inherently creative they have a right to Fantastic creative experience with their families we think people are better for each other when they’re doing things creatively parents and children together
Or carers and children together and and this is an organization where I can do that leadership role and deliver on that mission and also grow a business that’s really quite exciting and it’s I feel very lucky actually to be in that that position and it’s kind of by accident it
Wasn’t like I had a career plan and went I’m going to be there by the time most things in life yeah yeah absolutely yeah brilliant well that resonates a lot because I I as I mentioned to you earlier on um I I run a boys club and
And seeing the the the kids together doing things together it’s it’s uh it’s fantastic really you get the best of them um you mentioned that uh so is that how you discover your your talent in writing when somebody challenged you to do something because they thought you
Were good at it or do or you or you knew you were a great writer before I don’t if I ever knew I was good I think I mean I grew up in a house with parents who Who Had Creative interest so that’s probably part of it but I didn’t think
That’s necessarily where where I was going to even though I wanted to to write things and create things I was I was given room and space to to experiment with it but I didn’t think that was going to be a like 145 I didn’t think that was going to be a career at
All um I can remember there something else in middle school where there was a a poetry competition I’d written a poem on I remember it being displayed in the uh having a big star on it and being displayed in the reception area of the school but not really feeling like that
Was a parents thought that was an achievement I didn’t feel like that was an achievement partly because now I was the weird kid who had a poem up in school rather than being the just another one of another one of the kids at school but in in yeah I think
Absolutely he Brian challenged me he said make some make something and and we’ll it was also it was real and I think that’s something that with with young people but I think it’s the case in lots of other settings as well I think it’s the case when you manage
People badly which I’m sure we’ve all done done sometimes if you’re in a leadership role get get it wrong when you give somebody a false Challenge and you say um I want you to do this but actually you already know exactly what they’re going to do and there’s a preset
Predetermined prescriptive you know it’s like they work in a box Factory or a ball bearing factory make a hundred of those by Friday but we know exactly what aund of those looks like the difference with that challenge at six F was that that Brian said I don’t know what you’re
Going to write I don’t really care what this play is but if you’ve got something you can write write it but you’ve got a deadline if you don’t meet that deadline and it’s not long enough and good enough then we won’t make it but if you do
We’ll make that show for you so it it stretched me but it didn’t predetermine exactly what I was going to do and I think the most Innovative organizations are a bit like that of course there are certain things we do in the same way every time because they you know are
Kind of the Hub of of the thing if you like but the spokes are often their own beasts that grow in their own ways you’ve got to give people The Challenge and the room to to try well Google Google as a company they do that kind of
Thing in a way give employees 20% of your time you can do whatever you want in terms of goals you know go for any hairy big hairy audacious goal boom 80% you need to deliver this but one day a week you know yeah and and that brings a
Lot of creativity yeah and that’s do you know what’s Fascinate about because I love that model um and also there’s the one um with Innocent smoothies used to have where they used to have hubs of people desks where they in in offices where they were from different teams who
Used to have focused time over lunch where they used to have to talk to each other in different teams to those those models I think are really interesting I think the challenge in lots of organizations and it’s particularly true in the creative Industries not maybe not in startups but
In more established organizations and in theater organizations like this the challenge is that we’re quite used to doing things with not a lot of resource and working very hard and our cycle making a theater show or putting on a new exhibit in our creative play installations that we have here or
Running a festival like we do every summer here is our cycle is there’s this thing happening it’s happening on this dat it’s got to happen in this way work really hard to get it done so if that becomes the norm the 20% just disappears and you end up building a whole business
Plan that’s based on 110% delivery almost rather than 8020 and so that 020 rule has to has to be really fought for and I think I think it’s quite quite tricky yes and in organizations that are R in the Arts that are ring on public money I
Think some of those people Arts Council England and Scotland and elsewhere who give that money sometimes work on the 110% and don’t realize that the 20% 8020 rule is is actually where those organizations make their their brilliant discoveries that change the face of the sector that they’re in yeah definitely
Now earlier you mentioned about being a CEO is rewarding rewarding you love the responsibility the growth it brings um the challenges um you like the difficulty which is a challenge but then you made a comment earlier on um which was is not for everyone okay tell us a little bit more about that
Um yeah what do I mean by it’s not it’s not for everyone do I think do I think everyone can lead yeah I think I think almost everyone can lead do I think everyone can it it is psychologically and emotionally demanding in a way that um
And also it’s quite and I hate this because you get paid more than everybody else so I don’t want to bleat from a position of of luxury if you like although it’s it’s not that much of a of a of luxury but um it can be quite lonely because you go
Home with those things and you know that you have the authority to make that decision but other people’s livelihoods and experience and feelings rest on that on that decision um and particularly in a creative organization where a lot of its value judgments you know we are it
Isn’t like we’re making a car that drives at this speed or doesn’t we’re making something that 10 people might think is amazing and five people might think you’re not but the 10 people are the ones we want to get to so um there’s a lot of subjectivity in it and that is
Is the same within the team so I think that the I mean I suppose some people might call it a fixed scale I don’t I think the kind of um emotional resilience to be able to handle that is is is is slight is different to and you don’t really know
Until you’re in that type of leadership role I think that just how much of that you need to get and how strong a network you need around you um and I I know people who will say I don’t want your job Ben not because they don’t think
What we do is fantastic and they don’t love the organization but they don’t want to have that waking up at quarter to two in the morning one night and going oh that’s the thing I’ve got to do really got to sort that out and and it
Isn’t that you can just hand it on somebody else you have to make it happen the next day because you’re the the instigator and the the accountable person for that whatever that action is yeah I I I I would summarize it as not everybody has the stomach to be a CEO or
A business owner so and the reason why I say that well first of all I tell you the the story my dad who I told you about earlier on he he ran a business and he wanted me to go back and run it for him to retire and I didn’t go back
To Spain so he sold the business at the age of 70 he’s 89 now yeah and when he sold the business he picked up the phone and said he called me and said Javier today is the first day in my life I don’t have butterflies in my stomach so
Talking about stomachs you know it’s some people don’t want that you know they they uh so it’s not for everyone and it’s good for people watching this recording because some people are thinking of setting up their own business or or moving up to a CEO level and it’s good Reflection Point you know
It it’s uh you have to have that fire in your belly and desire and passion and I think yeah absolutely you have to care about the thing you do I think that’s what I find fascinating about um having worked in kind of social care and charity settings that are very much driven by
Um you know kind of CQC or ofstead type standards around people is is you do meet people in there ironic who are are more functionary and less passionate about what they do than in some other places but it’s usually because there is a bureaucracy around them that takes some of that heightened
Level of sense of responsibility away you know it’s not me that’s messed this up it’s the system that’s messed it up and that’s true I’m not saying that they they’re incorrec in that um but I think in other settings sometimes the if you’re not passionate if you don’t care about it
Then there’s kind of no point in in starting it because you won’t you won’t ever find that that stomach to do it I think um however I really respect the people who are aware enough to say that’s not that’s not for me I think that you know I I know some artists for
Example some particularly some theater makers who want to stay freelance independent job to job even if it’s a hard living they want to stay for the next commission the next bit of work because they they know where their strength is and they know what what their boundaries are and I think
Brilliant if you know that crack on um we should just probably pay them a bit better for more consistently so they’re not it’s not an unreliable income brilliant What’s um and what’s your favorite book by the way you have good question that changes because I read a lot of different things I
Um I think that probably my favorite book at at the moment but it’s only because I just started reading it and I might change my mind partway through is is Will Smith’s autobiography bizarrely because I got that for Christmas okay and a um a secret secret is it secret
It’s not even a secret see growing up with a fresh prince on telly secret Will Smith fan not quite sure about him slapping another American celebrity across the face on stage at the Oscars that maybe not but um but there’s something about um I love digging into
People S I love podcasts where you hear the real story of somebody’s development and and the the learning from it I suspect by the end of his book it might not be my favorite because it might feel like he’s turned every experience into his life into a major learning point and
Maybe it’s not but at the moment that’s my favorite it’s a historical one one that I’ve read in the pastes that’s my my favorite there’s a book by Jonathan Co called the rers club which is about the 1970 uh life family experience in the 1970s where some of the story is told in
Letters some of the story is told in telephone conversations some of it told in in first person some of it own third person Pros um which I really like and maybe it’s because it reminds me of being a young child in the late 70s it’s probably that that Nostalgia but yeah
That’s a great book and you mentioned podcast what podcast do you do you listen to oh loads so um I’m slightly addicted to the rest is football mainly because as a massive Newcastle fan hearing Alan sheir swear at Gary L Richards on a couple of times a week is
Quite funny um also he went to my school a few years ahead of me more funny um but uh there’s but I really like the high performance podcast yes I listened to that yes um yeah sometimes I can’t quite get into the the it depends on who
The person is but I like the approach of drawing some lessons and questions I quite like Diary of a CEO except when three-hour episodes that I struggle to find the time to listen to it all in one um uh he he sometimes I feel he maybe is
Is a little bit too Americanized in his presentation but Jay Shetty okay podcast which is um called uh oh what it’s called now but there’s a j Shetty who does a lot of stuff around mental health and mindfulness I think is great and the other one I really like um even though
The two hosts of it often really W me up um it’s alist Campbell and um uh Rory uh the oh what’s Roy Stewart is the the rest is politics leading they do two the rest is politics and then the rest is politics leading the interview so
They’ve had like short and Egger on and then um former leaders of countries in the third world and then kind of filar yeah brilliant excellent well thanks for sharing that what what will you what will you ADV what would be your advice for your 18y old self what would
I advise my 18y old self um take the opportunities when they’re given and don’t be uh don’t be cynical about them I think I’d also say um the the amount of hard work you put into a whole range of things that feel really important now might be slightly
Better served on things that have delayed gratification for your future that would probably be my main message to myself is brilant the temptation to go to the pub with your Mates is probably not as as one to follow as much as the one that says actually if you
Spend time writing this thing it might get published in a couple of years yeah yeah excellent well thanks for sharing that before we wrap up Ben do you have any news about the the theater that you want to share with the people watching this recording yeah so we we as a
Theater company the theater organization running a venue obviously that what you’ll see on our website um which needs updating uh is a a whole range of stuff around our performance program work but the the bits of work work that are really growing are our play programs for children and their and their grown-ups
And uh they are incredibly exciting because we have a research team from New York State John University Leeds University in elsewhere looking at that work and we’ve identified that playing creatively uh a child and their significant grown up in their life playing together is proven in research
That the impact of that on Child Development and wellbeing and on Parental well-being and parental confidence is greater than most public publicly funded health treatment programs for those families so we’re in the position now where we might be in Parliament we think for hosting a Westminster Hall debate sometime in
April to try and influence the manifestos of the parties for the general election to make creative play for children a universal entitlement um it’s not without cost obviously because those programs still need delivery but that’s fantastic because that’s the opportunity for our charity and business to potentially influence work by other
People that we may never see but that fundamentally changes lives so yeah if I can leave it with one thing is play with your children play creatively and try and make sure that entitlement is there for everybody because it changes lives and it’s it’s a lot cheaper than putting
People on medication yeah that def definitely well Ben thanks for sharing that and it’s been a real pleasure to have you join us today at business Spotlight series and for sharing your experience wisdom and kind with us today thank you so much thank you