Video courtesy of my collaboration with @wisdomfromnorth
Watch more interviews on www.wisdomfromnorth.com
Riding my bike through Lüneburg, Germany while listening to the Wisdom From North Podcast with Peter Panagore.
Meet author Peter Panagore, who faced death twice, forever changing his perspective on life, death, and spirituality. His first near-death experience occurred during an ice-climbing expedition in Canada in 1980. Exhausted and hypothermic, Peter died on the mountainside, entering a realm of overwhelming love and choices. Despite a beckoning voice, he returned, motivated to study systematic theology and Christian mysticism at Yale Divinity School. Three decades of meditation and two decades of work with the dying later, Peter shares hope through books like “Heaven Is Beautiful” and “Two Minutes for God: Quick Fixes for the Spirit.” His profound insights inspire those grappling with life’s mysteries.
Find links to Peter’s official site here:
The original release date of the podcast was January 28th, 2024.
Jannecke, thank you very much for letting me use the audio from your podcast!
I was shown the immense love that exists inside of all of the universe itself woven into the universe is this light that is in everything I Saw The Light being made and that everyone was as valued as me this love was larger than all of the universes Universe after
Universe after Universe this immense love was larger than that aimed at me aimed at all of us hello Peter a warm welcome to the show thank you Yan I’m really pleased to be here I’m across the Atlantic I’m waving right and I’m all the way up in
Norway and uh we are going to have a deep conversation about the afterlife today it’s something I’m really curious about and my audience as well and I know that you’ve had some pretty amazing and profound near-death experiences that have really changed you and uh you’ve written the book uh Heaven Is Beautiful
Uh which is really good news I find and it gives so much hope to share these stories and to me I’ve never experienced the afterlife but hearing all these stories I really are starting to believe on a deep deep level that Life Will Go On uh and before we go into your stories
I would love to know like where were you coming from before you died the first time when it comes to spiritual beliefs like did you have a spiritual background at all I did I had a I had what I consider a religious background and a spiritual background and they didn’t
100% overlap uh I was raised Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox I went to Catholic High School I went to both churches because it was a mixed marriage but I had mystical experiences starting as a child and so I had a a a something that set me up for these events but I
Didn’t know that at the time that is interesting because I’ve heard that before that people who’ve had these near death experiences often have some mystical experiences which we might come back to but first I would love for you to share what happened I think this happened way back when when you were 20
That you actually died I was 20 I was an exchange student from my University to another University and that winter I went ice climbing in western Canada in the Rocky Mountains in a place called Lower weeping wall I had gone eight days of snow caving before that and I’d been a winter
Camper and Backpacker and National Ski Patrol member so winter was my element I’d been a mountaineer but I’d never ice climbed and my partner Tim was a certified lead climber and we agreed to go on this climb and I I made a mistake I made a a
Judgment uh error I chose to climb with an axe and a hammer I did climb I made it all the way up but my choice slowed or climbed down significantly twice as long to reach the top as every other team on the ice that day which put us at
The top at dark the sun set the temperature dropped about 30 degrees in minutes hypothermia set in rapidly our bodies began twitching with every muscle moving independent of every other muscle and we knew that we were in deep trouble and that night throughout the night I
Could tell you the whole Saga of the high adventure survival but I’d like to summarize it by saying that hypothermia steals your reason as it freezes you and what that meant was we encountered problems that we created as a result of choices we made as hypothermia Advanced and froze
Our brains so that they cease to function as efficiently as they did before and our bodies simultaneously we lost our it was a continuation of losing coordination throughout the night it was uh digits freezing I have all my digits um I there some of them are numb and some of them aren’t
And hyper Thia is a slow moving disaster it was in the dark on cliffs roped to each other with precipitous Falls to our side and descents that uh left us in uh closer to where we wanted to go but also deeper into time and the deeper we went into time the less energy
We had and the colder it got through the night and the more difficult it became to move I should say that at the top of the climb when we first arrived as the sun set we knew we were going to die we’ known we were going to die for a few
Hours it became apparent that that was going to be what might happen to us and when we sat there with our legs swinging off the ledge when it first began um it was move or die that was the choice and so we had to move through the darkness
Of the night as everything got worse and we got more tired and we had less energy and our my eyeballs were freezing it’s a hard thing to say mean what I mean but I’d never felt such a thing before and I I found inside myself throughout the
Night and my my my climbing partner Tim was in the same situation I was in but as I found myself driving driving myself forward through the night with willpower that I did not know that I had that then became this human instinct that was much deeper than my own
Interior willful Drive suddenly I tapped into this part of my brain where I was animal in survival and I had it wasn’t like I was trying to funnel my mind into Survival anymore my mind was funneled into survival in a physical way that is uh still
Is the depth of my willpower that I have never reached again it’s something that was well it was survival or die and so we made our descents and we got to our last repel and now we’re standing on a Ledge and in the mountain are iron pins
Epoxied in with rings and carabiners and straps with carabiners were harnessed in and Tim is to my left we’re 100 15 ft up uh it’s way deep into the night getting closer to Dawn our hypothermia has seriously Advanced we we we were so little we had so little energy that we
Didn’t speak unless it was absolutely necessary and we didn’t move unless it was absolutely necessary so here we are we’re on the ledge I’m I have the Rope it’s it’s tied to my harness I have the other called The Bitter End I toss a Bitter End out around the corner of this
Crag back up the repel we had just come down I grabed the rope and I I and it jammed on my my three Ines 6 Ines I couldn’t move it it was done we were done I couldn’t release the Rope I couldn’t climb back up and hypothermia continued to advance
We couldn’t get down and we couldn’t go up and so to get to the near-death experience I had this drive and then suddenly this animalistic drive when I when my reasonable mind what’s left of my reasoning mind I became aware that I this was the end and I was not getting
Off of this Cliff when that happened I had this peace descend on me of acceptance and this acceptance included thoughts of the Divine thoughts of my parents and my family and um especially my parents who had my sister had run away but for us it was a Vanishing and
It broke my family lots of families have trauma lots of families get broken I was in Montana and Alberta Canada to get away from that situation but I but it broke my parents’ Hearts my mom in particular and and then I began to fall asleep and I would crash to the Rock and
Stand back up a bunch of times and I stood back up this last time and as I stood back up this last time I had this dark circle around my Vision uh like a spotlight and I was in the middle of it but was was my vision that was in the
Middle of it and it began to collapse very rapidly and as it closed into my face I thought to myself am I falling asleep again sleep had been coming like a curtain dropping this was a a compression a compression a a tightening of my vision and as it closed I thought
Am I falling asleep and then I awoke it and not in a way that I ever ever awoken before I awoke to a a darkness that was in front of me that extended into uh a distance that is inconceivable the size of the universe and nothing in it and I
Am aware of myself but I don’t understand what’s going on I know that I’ve separated from my body I know that I am outside myself I know that I am um confused but not afraid having had these other mystical experiences this prepared me but I didn’t understand it and way
Far in the far distance the furthest distance this pin prick of light appeared and came rushing toward me and it enveloped me and communicated to me I’m taking you and and I resisted because I didn’t understand what was going on but it took me anyway and and
Then I was separated people talk about the silver cord of connection I had no connection to my physical body it was gone and I was a a a a being shaped like a human but not made of molecules or energy or or anything like that I was
Made and people say light well I’ll say light but this is all metaphoric I didn’t have a brain I wasn’t thinking in language conceptualization was not what it was going on for me and I was a a being of light made of photons inside of this Angelic being that I knew and was
Telling me and showing me intelligence and power and love and and and I have a very long experience and I want to make sure that I’m giving you what you need to hear so I’m going to cut out a whole lot of things that happened I I’ll mention that I went
Through a purgative fire of divine love where all of my um previous actions in my life I experienc from the point to view of the person I had caused these pains to um witnessing it from their inside and feeling their feelings simultaneous to me feeling that same experience from my
Point of view simultaneous to the Divine being speaking love to me making love to me calling me into being showing me myself showing me um the truth of what I had just lived but showing me this forgiveness and love that had always been in existence
I I figured when I was a kid that I would be judged because that’s what the religion taught me but no I was not I judged myself in proportion to the unlimited and in this proportion to the unlimited I saw myself as impure but only in comparison to infinite Purity
Who was who was love itself and as I listened to this love itself calling me into being into now I turned myself toward it this tidal wave of of illuminosity irresistible to me immense powerful and I was a wash in it and I inflated in
With it inside of me and inside of me I became it but less than it more than it I’d ever been um but I having known myself it was showing me myself I saw myself as a as a single Photon before a field of photons that was infinitely
Deep and tall and deep um and wide and it I was superpositioned with it I was entangled with it I was separate from it I was outside of it but I was the same as it it was made of a septian photons all of them a singular intelligence all of them one
All of them many and I was one of the many and I was also separated from it and I saw my self uh as a as a lower a lower self than my Photon where I was like a huge baguette with Kebab Spears stuck in it and each Kebab spear was an incarnation
Of my living life they were all simultaneous uh but none of them were me they were all connected to to me but the baguette was much bigger than the skewers and many skewers bigger baguette and yet even the baget this overs of myself was was cruder and more limited
Than this photonic sense of myself I I’m G to cut to even the further Chase and say that I made a choice to come back I was shown the immense love that exists inside of all of the universe itself woven into the universe is this light that is in everything I Saw The
Light being made from the darkness the infinite Darkness into which I couldn’t see where it poured out love into everything there is in including me but and more so me than all the universe and then showed me all of humanity and that everyone was as valued as
Me and this gold Golden Light inside of all of us this love this voice speaking to me I love you I love you I have always loved you I call you into being through love this love was larger than all of the universes that were pouring out of its its infinitely dark belly
Universe after Universe after Universe this immense love was larger than that aimed at me aimed at all of us and then I saw my parents’ faces and I saw parallel lives I saw their life without me Mom and Dad I saw their life with me mom and dad with me alive
They had less suffering still a lot of suffering trauma does that but without me multiple multiply 10 times more and the meanwhile the voice was calling me come home come home to us we love you come home to us and but it gave me this
Choice and I said do I have to stay here and if I if I if I go back can I come back here and the voice said yes if you go back you come back here to this state of being to this understanding of my own
Near un I want to say universality but it’s it’s not infinite universality it’s a a more limited form of this this immensity of intelligence that is all things and makes all things exist now right now and always and I said then then I choose to live my
Life and the voice said you won’t live your life and sent me back and I had a compression experience where I became more and more layered and denser and denser more material and then suddenly in front of me were were a million doorways with tunnels and and in the
Center of all of these doorways and these concentric circles were was like this beam of white light that was immense and it came out of the infinite itself and I couldn’t even see back into the heaven I had been in but I could see the darkness and the light coming from
It Illuminating these doorways and the the light was more intense closer to the to the center of the of the light itself as it went out through the doorways it got faded faded faded faded and the voice said to me this Angelic being which also was the Divine itself
Somehow reduced for me it said to me choose and and I thought uh creativity writing u a little Bohemian life uh a life of the heart a life of of humanity I wanted to be human enough to be a flawed messenger of light and and I and I I don’t know why I
Chose that but I did and it was inside the outside rim of the light itself not not in it but outside it and I traveled down this tunnel and I saw all these doorways and all these doorways led to all these other tunnels or through all these other doorways that I had the
Million doorways I had seen there were all these tunnels that I could choices that I could make through all of them and in the center of the mall was still the light and then I was at my body and I I saw my body hanging on the cliff
Kind of off the edge now uh strapped in and Tim my partner was down close to me U I couldn’t hear anything but I could see him holding me and shaking me and I could I was very objective I was like oh who’s that what’s going on and and then
The this Angelic being pierced the chest zoom in close pierces the chest opens it up and stuffs me in and it’s horrendous this pain I had no pain on the other side it was pain did not exist no suffering all healing all love Bliss Joy adoration understanding knowledge
Illumination uh wholeness truth of self and now I’m in hell again of suffering and I and I and I’m inside this thing having chosen it and I look back up through this opening and I can see this Angelic being and and then I see it
Close and now I’m inside and my and I feel my brain this brain I should my brain it it was my brain but and I knew that it was my brain but it was also this other thing and it felt wor up like a like a a motor turning and and my
Hearing comes back and I hear screaming and I feel shaking and and I’m in racked with pain because everything hurts now and I open my eyes and Tim’s close don’t die don’t die don’t die he’s screaming at me and he sees me with my eyes open
And he says you were dead I thought you were dead you were dead I thought you were dead and he pulls me up and he’s talking and he’s talking and he’s talking to me and I don’t have any idea who I am I don’t know who he is I don’t
Know where I am I just know that I hurt I know that that I’m in this form that I don’t understand because now I’m confused I know I am this other thing what am I doing here and how do I get out of it and and the Rope came free we descended and
We self-treated for hypothermia and we survived H I came back an entirely different person than I had been the day before and all of my earlier childhood mystical experiences kind of came into Focus all at once like oh that’s what that was and from that
Point on I kept this a secret for close to 20 years I uh pursued my education I changed course in my careers radically and pursued in education and mysticism and ended up getting ordained in a liberal denomination hiding out in the church practicing Crea yoga and studying
Uh my teachers from around the world and and here I am with an in I had an intermission in between that in television wow that is quite an amazing story I I’ve written down many questions there because there’s so much to this um the last thing you said was quite
Interesting I haven’t heard that before that when you come back from this afterlife experience that you don’t know who you are so how long did that last 20 30 40 years um uh it was much more intense in the beginning what I what I knew was that I was inhabiting my
Body my Consciousness separated from my physical form I knew that when I came back that I was living inside of this and to me it felt like a like a bi biological robot I felt like I had my software in the cloud I was living in
The cloud and my I had an app inside of me but I was trapped in the app like but I I could see myself above and I could see myself seeing through this but I was also trapped here and and so I um had to readjust my psychology one of
The things that I look this is a univ ISM for mysticism this is in the literature around the world deep mystical experiences are personality and character and psychologically shattering they shatter your psychology they not it’s not just a New Perspective it’s an end of self and a new self that comes
Back and the new self is a mix of Heaven and Earth and it’s a mix of of the parts of Earth okay of your I I didn’t I still had allergies I still had dyslexia um I you know I didn’t come back I I still
Had spoke the way I spoke and um I and everybody from my point of view misperceived me they misperceived me because they couldn’t see that I had changed but the whole entire world around me was made of light there was light leaking through everyone and everything everywhere all the time and
And it didn’t just come from the outside it came from the inside there was this inner thing that was happening that that was a a noise inside me that was showing me the world as it was and that was super isolating oh I can imagine now did you
Have all your memories coming uh in the end like slowly but surely your childhood yeah I figured out who I was and what I was doing and and oh yeah I’m Peter and and I’m on this this is Tim and um uh and these are people that I
Know and this is my family and there’s my dog um but it was I was never me again I was never I’ve never been me again but what I find interesting is that you actually Source or this angel said come here stay here because in the near-death experiences
That I’ve heard they often it seems like the Divine wants you to go back and it’s the opposite like the person wants to stay there uh and I’m curious about that if you have thoughts why would they want you to stay and my other thought was
Also it seemed like I believe that we have soulle contracts that we plan our lives but it seems like you sort of planned a whole new life that you were sort of starting again like which door to take but you had to go down to the
Same body and the same parents but you could choose like who you would be right without with millions of choices that I didn’t and it turns out that the it that my interior choices it was like like Harry Potter’s castle my interior choices opened the door and I didn’t
Know what that was Behind These doors all I knew is the choice that I made and that’s the door that opened I didn’t like choose a door I made choices and the door opened and and and then showed me myself uh I um I lost I lost the beginning of your
Question what was your beginning question yeah I I was sort of uh curious about why you were going like why the Divine wanted you to stay uh yeah yeah yeah so right so second time I died in 2015 of a heart attack my family has a
Congenital heart issue and so I died in 2015 on in the ambulance on the way I chose again to come back I I I my perspective isn’t human I’m not I’m my my my plan of my life human is more or less an incidental to the larger self the larger
Self is the uh the orientation that I saw on the other side for me and so my coming back I I did live a new life I I’m two I’m now in life 3.0 um but when I first came back I was in 2.0 and and there was relationship to
1.0 but 2.0 was you know um uh uh 6,000 gigabyte upgrade so it was related but the software was completely different um and the the result was the my my singular desire to go back because I thought I made a mistake and should have stayed oh
But the reason why I came back the second time and the reason why I chose to come back the first time is because of timelessness and I knew the nowness and I knew that that in in my higher self experience when I finally die the nness will return in an instant
As if I had never left and so the only endurance I need is through time itself and so I know I I know what I’m from and I know to whom I belong and I know where I belong and where I belong is where I’m from it’s U
My higher self that is always always not I’m not just here I am there I am always there and I’m always made of the same Divine substance and so my I know that I had a life contract when I came here okay so so this is not to say that in
This particular life the that I made a deal and the deal that I made was uh that I saw in my first my very first mystical experience when I was 5 years old I I won’t tell the whole story but I was five years old and I was in Christian
Language raptured by an Angelic being who sounded like niag sounded like a huge waterfall crashing that’s so much so much noise but the noise was beautiful noise but it was still really loud and it snatched me from my body brought me up um a a An Elevator Shaft
To I was 5 years old to uh an to a through the atmosphere I could see our house through the atmosphere into this Darkness the same darkness that I was in in my transition from my um space between is a kind of a not quite the
Fullness of the Divine void but also the Divine void it wasn’t quite the heaven I got to when I when I died but I in this space the Angelic being surrounded me as an orb of light and and I was in a what people refer to is the
Void this is all metaphor and the Divine was the void itself and I was uh had a light body and I could see my human form and the Divine showed me itself took me outside of this of this orb and brought me into the full darkness and showed and
Yet I still had this like child form of light although I knew that I was not the human child I experienced this infinity and then I was plucked I was stuck back in this orb and then it it showed me it it poured into the orb the void poured
Poured in and showed me 10,000 forms of all these different colors and shapes and materials um and and non-m materials and it said to me um we have a deal don’t we and I was like oh yeah we do I made a deal that I belong to you and I
Work for you in this lifetime and out I went back to the body again and so I never I I knew that that was true as a child I knew that I was not my body I couldn’t tell anybody because I didn’t well I didn’t know how
And in this life I’m now in 3.0 uh I’m trying to be I chose to be a messenger when I came back I chose that that was part of I chose communication writing is communication and the message that I was given is the one that I have always
Given no matter whether I wore a mask in public or not I masked for 20 years nobody in my church knew that this happened to me I wasn’t a believer in Christianity I worked in Christianity love is and was my soul connection and and now I’m finally just talking
About it plainly as plainly as I can that humanity is beloved we’re not alone in being beloved we’re not alone we’re not alone in being beloved but we are beloved everyone is beloved uh I want to ask a question that dropped down into my mind uh I think I’ve been thinking about
It before so I believe in reincarnation that we have several lives and then I’m thinking is this happening every time we go back to Heaven that is sort of oh my goodness this uh this shock that I still exist and we have this these Divine experiences and then we go back and we
Go into a new life again and then we die again it’s like oh my goodness it seems like this is a something that is occurring after each Lifetime and I’m wondering why we are not instantly remember remembering that oh that was just that life and here we
Go again like it seems like there is this huge process of understanding that oh I made this deal to go down to this planet but if we’ve had thousands of lives it seems like that’s a heavy process to go through again and again but it’s only from the human point of
View it it’s it’s it’s a burden while you’re here it’s a burden but if the Orient if the if everything we do in life and our spiritual if everything we do in our spiritual life is about our physical life um then we are uh in a way entrapping helping to entrap ourselves
Here the the orientation of the of of the Masters of light Kabir roomi Lau Buddha Jesus the whole the whole shmear of them they’re all singleness Masters they’re all in pres the yoga sutras they’re all in in pursuit of the singleness itself and this and in pursuit of the the higher light itself
Gives us even in this life a freedom from the suffering I still hurt okay like I fell off my bike a couple weeks ago and it freaking hurt um so there’s that it doesn’t eliminate that but what it does eliminate is the attachment to the idea of Life After Life After Life
Because I I I saw in two two of my previous lives I was in their bodies looking through their eyes and what I my takeaway from that was I’m not them I am this higher self and this higher self then becomes my Pursuit and in the pursuit of this higher
Self I’m willing to do anything be anywhere go anywhere be anyone in order to be back into the unitive state of the Divine being my my my goal isn’t lifetime to Lifetime my goal is the loss of all physical form and a return into the Oneness of being it’s myself because
Only in there am I actually fully myself and and nothing exists in the universe everything is like a reduction of the unlimited everything is a reduction of the of the creator of all things it’s and and our suffering is a as a natural result that is universally true it’s not
We’re not the chickes and and whales suffer so do so do star systems that get too close to black hole s it it is it is it’s the nature of the universe itself to be broken it is both broken and whole simultaneously and the the burden to
Live is a burden to live and I I’ve spent a lot of my career working in domestic violence and that’s what I did and I saw the worst of humanity and um it didn’t knowing the light doesn’t relieve that kind of suffering knowing the light um well it
Enables a community to help the people who need help but it it it also gives uh I’ve attended many deaths and the people who have found the light in life has easier deaths because they foresee their own transition and so what it does no matter your circumstance no matter where you
Are in the world the the the the growth of the understanding of the higher self enables a superpower in life because when you see the light inside yourself in the now which is the only place it can be seen you then begin to see the light inside of other
People and and not only other people but animals and plants and nature and and and then there’s this reinforcing that happens the more people that have this light the more people around you that share the light with you because it multiplies itself in communities and it
Doesn’t have to be a formal Community it can just be um uh uh people on the internet zooming in uh it is because the light is always present and the more people that find it inside themselves and its presence the more it shares itself in the world and so all together there’s a
Potential for a nudge to relieve the world of its own selfishness you might have just answered the question uh but one of my viewers were asking is Awakening available to us all in every Incarnation well I think maybe no I think maybe no because maybe it’s DNA
Because I because here’s a there was a study that was produced um margerie Dr margerie wott uh presented it at the International Association for near-death studies conference two years ago I have I introduced her and her her numbers are these 60% of mourners experience an after-death visitation which means that 40%
Don’t on those of those 40% who Don’t there are there’s a large percentage of people who who never have mystical experiences and maybe it’s DNA maybe there’s some kind of nanot tubula in the brain maybe there’s The God Spot in the brain Dr Andrew Newberg is checking this out his studies are fabulous um but maybe there’s a God Spot
In the brain where there is a connection between uh the Neurology of a human brain and and the higher self some kind of quantum interface sort of thing and and I don’t know what it is um but I do know that my Consciousness doesn’t arise in my brain my Consciousness inhabits
This form and so Incarnation to Incarnation I I don’t have any statistics on it and I don’t know whether I can make a uh a smart I don’t know if it’s smart for me to guess but I’m going to guess anyway and say that I know people who
Just can’t see and and I can’t make them see I I can share I can share the Divine energy the best I can which is the true communication of it anyway it’s not about language or stories or talking it’s about the divine presence itself and there are just people who I know who
Just can’t um and don’t but maybe they’re not supposed to maybe that is in their deal or plan because they might be wanting to experience being an atheist like how that is like perhap and in the end it doesn’t matter so so like I am not an evangelist
Okay I don’t care I I I cared if people thought that I was insane I cared that people that because I’m a rational person I have very analytical mind I I I I got tools in my head um but I didn’t want to be I didn’t want to be shamed
And I didn’t want to be rejected and and I didn’t want to lose a possibility of a career or or anything like that so I kept my mouth shut but but but here’s here’s the thing um every single incarnation is in service to the original Self every
Single one of them and and that the plan the the plan of Lifetime to Lifetime and that’s what I’m really trying to talk about here the plan from Lifetime to Lifetime is secondary to the orientation of the return to the Divine being so so in in
One lifetime um I in one of the lifetimes I saw it was like a lizard or or a lizard person I don’t have any idea what I was but I was not a human being okay I was like maybe I was a diner or baby or something I don’t know but I
Don’t know what I was and and what I saw of my of the world was entirely alien to me and didn’t understand it and I had no reference for it and I was definitely not a Believer then I couldn’t believe then because I didn’t have the capacity to think and so
The the whole idea the that the human brain is any sort of determinative for what should or shouldn’t be I am suspicious of that is interesting in itself that you say that you are lizard because a lot of people are wondering about that I think can I reincarnate as a butterfly
But you’re saying that really that is possible that we can reincarnate through all sorts of forms I think that there’s no limitation to the unlimited and that as I looked at my incarnations I didn’t I only saw into two of them there were lot many of the thousand of
Them anyway lots of them but I only sawed two of them there there was a chronology to them like they had a line this bag baguette it was a but from my point of view they were in timelessness they were all happening simultaneously they’re all happening
Simultaneously and and so so there was a sequence to them the sequence wasn’t like um with a with a measuring tape um the SE quence was like a a the connective form of the sequence was myself I I am I am that which is being incarnated and my incarnations were were
Tiny slivers in the baguette and and and which they influenced they they they were present but they were not the thing itself and um so it’s just interesting I thought you know that you would start to maybe incarnate as a bacteria and then you would evolve as a padian you know maybe
Maybe that’s the truth I don’t I I only know what I know and I don’t like to speculate on what I don’t know because because I only could come back with this much right and I came back with a i my brain is too small to contain what what
I saw over there it’s continually revealing itself to me over my lifetime it’s not it’s not just something that happened back then it’s a present thing now that the more I’m looking like for instance I’ve never used my interior eye to look at the Angelic being I was
Always looking past the Angelic being has always being stuffed back into my body and the more I look at this thing in my meditation in my inner eye when I tell my story I the more I look at it the more substance it has shape it has
Um and so I I think that the perspective that I came back with is always as a learner not as a knower I I know that what I know is that I’m known I know that I’m known by the knower and I and I came back with a with a cup full of
Sugar and or half a cup of sugar but I have a cup of space And so there’s more sugar being poured in sweetener to myself and that um rather than focus on the things of the world I still live in the world like
You know I I have a mortgage and I get a car and get kids and all that stuff um the more I focus on the Divine self the more present it becomes for me the more present it becomes for me the the Richer my life becomes Way Beyond
Money um yeah but that makes sense you know because I have come across some guests who have said that they knew everything that they sort of got access I did I had I knew everything I knew everything I want I wanted to know my question was I had a single question and
My question was sh I want to understand every single thing in the universe like top to bottom everything I want to know Quantum I want to know molecules I want to know atoms and I want to know biology and chemistry I want to know downloaded
Right into me Bo boom and I and that’s when I understood the structure of the of the suffering of humanity in the context of the The Limited form and The Limited form desp it has this immensity to it and it’s not just what the physical world but has all this energy
Levels to it um and chemistry levels to it um but why did you you said that you didn’t know everything I I did but I but I can’t bring it back with me and even when I knew everything even when I didn’t have a brain my brain I had no
Brain I had no I had if my brain is a is a megabyte of space my soul is what’s above a a uh a gigabytes you know what’s the terabytes uh what’s the largest it’s hum humous capacity for not only knowledge but for understanding and data
But even so in that state of being I still could not see into the depth of infinity infinity itself still lay beyond my vision I couldn’t comprehend the wholeness because I was outside of it and even though I was superpositioned in it because I had my being in it um
So why am I telling you this uh um I I’m telling you this because a mistake that humans make is a focus in our lives and not I pay attention to my life I have to I have you know I got a life um but spiritually I aim myself for that
Which I already am and in that place in the pursuit of the giver instead of the gifts I find an abundance comes to me people talk about abundance I don’t have a I don’t have a I don’t have a million dollars in the bank I don’t have an
Abundance of gold I have an abundance of this Divine energy which I am and and this in it of itself is my relief for my own suffering as I live in the world and I mean as I sit here right now you know I’ve got a twinge in my
Back I’m like oh there’s a twinge in my back it doesn’t take away that sort of stuff it it changes one’s Pursuit it gives peace perhaps peace that lives piece that that is I okay so my body still has physiological reaction if I’m walking down a dark alley and somebody pulls a
Gun on me I get a spike of adrenaline right I’m like whoa someone’s got a gun on me but I had a gun on me I had a gun on my heart at an airport in Central America by a guard safety off figure finger on the trigger and this piece was with me
It’s with me because I know that I’m not going to die I am not afraid of dying uh and so this this uh there comes an abundance with this and it is it can be cultivated through uh practices lots of different kind of meditative practices that helps the cultivation of this piece
But this peace then begins to live inside oneself it doesn’t make one perfect um when you know I got I got a upset last night and my mom’s going into assisted living and I got a little upset about something and I still have human emotions but this peace
Grows I wanted to ask you uh do you have any tip for those who are watching now who haven’t had Miss iCal experiences near-death experiences where can they start to cultivate this peace it comes through action the peace comes through action and the action comes in two ways the first action is a
Life of a ritualized practice of meditation and a ritualized practice of meditation that whose aim is the uh the end of attachment to self not the end of self the self the egoic mind will survive but it’s the attachment to the egoic mind that a practice of meditation or taii or some
Sort of form of practice where breath and mind aim at a single thought and that single thought is eventually going to drop away and you’re left just with breath and and it’s a it is a cumulative sort of thing meditation um is simple and difficult it’s difficult because the mind wanders it’s simple
Because the solution is easy breath and word together you breathe in with your words you breathe out with your words you lock your words to your breath and every time your mind wanders you keep focused there and and within a few weeks of practice what normally happens is
That there’s a moment of Peace a moment of silence a moment of the end of the yapper of the self where where this darkness that can’t be grasped is a place to sit inside of and and once that that one thing happens it’s food to keep you on your
Journey uh once you know that thing then you can continue to develop that thing so that’s practice is practical um and there are there’s sometimes it comes through Awakening just happens it just does uh why you and why not me I don’t know um and then there’s this other way
That is shamanic and traditional and um is being studied at universities that are psychedelics and they have end of they have end of Duality experiences that are being Quantified and defined and provable that these things uh have not only historical context but current context um but also because they’re
Powerful to be used with caution and with safety um but they do have end of Duality experience is that are life-changing Peter I have three questions that I ask all my guests and my first one is what is self-love to you has nothing to do with me as a
Person it has everything to do with the end of my attachment to myself and my polishing my inner eye and aiming my inner eye at the Divine that sees me my selflove is the my love of the Divine that loves me and what is happiness to you that’s a good one
Uh happiness only has come to me recently in my life after I died the second time when I accepted my place here on Earth and my job here to do and then I uh stopped mourning for the other side and started having even more fun happiness is being in nature with people
I love and having the joy of the radiant presence feed me and us and what is the deeper meaning of life from your perspective you’re not from here love is all that matters if you never awaken All You Need Is Love Love Is The Treasure of life and The Treasure of heaven and
Every ounce you give away comes back to you tenfold and every ounce given to you is yours to keep H this was profound thank you thank you so much where can people find you and uh what is it that you’re offering I know you’re an author
And I think you have some courses would you like to share I offer primarily helping people adjust to their Awakening their mystical experiences their new death experiences all types of spiritual experiences I help people who have suicidality and who are in domestic crisis um I teach on Tuesday Mornings a
Private Zoom group on create yoga I teach public public Ally on Zoom to meditations and on Sunday morning I run a uh not Church mysticism no Doctrine no Dogma a a near-death experience perspective on the deconstruction of Western Christianity through the through you do pads and the vades and a whole
Bunch of other stuff um I try to make it simple and fun um and I am at Peter panagore DOL beautiful thank you so much for coming to the show today was such a joy and an honor I am so happy to be here today um
It’s my pleasure and my honor it may God bless you may the source give you strength May the light be inside you always thank You let go