#sixnations #englandrugby
The 2024 Six Nations is just around the corner and the Telegraph Rugby podcast is back ahead of the tournament’s opening fixture on Friday.
Ben, Charlie and Charles get stuck into how the England squad will cope in the absence of Owen Farrell and Courtney Lawes, with Jamie George to skipper the side for the competition.
We also hear from Italy forward Sebastian Negri ahead of Italy’s clash with England, and he opens up to us about his starring role in the recent Netflix series.
Former England coach Eddie Jones joins the show for the first time since becoming head coach of Japan. We hear about his new role, the upcoming Six Nations, and his strong views on Owen Farrell’s decision to step away from international rugby.
Plus, we cast our eyes over the best of the weekend’s action, including a potential classic in Marseille between France and Ireland on Friday night.
Hello everyone it’s been a minute but you are back with the telegraph rut podcast ahead of the Six Nations kicking off this weekend what ideal timing to have us back in your lives you’re joined Once More by myself Ben Koh the telegr rby reporter and I’m here with senior
Rby writer Charlie Morgan hi Charlie Coy and Telegraph reporter Charles Richardson hi Charles hello and welcome back everybody oh uh Charles given that Charlie and I have spent most of the uh gap between podcasts off on poent Le can you um explain to us what’s been happening in the last uh three months
While we’ve been away uh International level it looks like France and Ireland are going to continue dominating at at Club level though their their respective Club sides have looked really strong as well in the Champions Cup and um Northampton Northampton all all aboard the Northampton Saints hype train
Bandwagon playing rugby from the gods yeah um does deserved numerous calls up in Steve bwi’s England squad and um you’ve got to say at the minute favorites for the title the Premiership title Charlie instead of um talking about the Six Nations can you just expand on your love of Patrick Mahomes
And the fact that he’s off to a fourth Super Bowl how do you feel about that I did manage to Crowbar him into a article about who was going to replace saw far’s fly half of Saron if that gives you any idea maybe oh my goodness will L Reit be
There what in the Super Bowl yeah yeah I don’t know how it works in the Super Bowl yeah I don’t don’t really follow it he’s got two weeks to learn the game get a contract listen I’m by all accounts from everything I’ve read that’s just as
Likely as him actually making it I don’t want to put anyone down maybe maybe he could he could get a Super Bowl um seriously though we’re delighted to be back delighted to have you listening just very delighted all around there’s loads of Six Nations coverage on the
Website over the next few days so please please have a look dig into that follow us for all of the latest stories and buildup it’s a new World Cup cycle and that means that things get a bit weird don’t they Charles in terms of old heads are gone young faces are coming
In who are you most excited about I guess if you had to pick a team or or a player going through a bit of change um I’m probably most excited about Italy to see Italy because obviously they looked very very strong in the last six nations maybe should have maybe should have got
Got that win uh didn’t quite get there because they had their worst half of the championship in the game that they were most likely to win against Wales in r and then they had a complete meltdown in the World Cup now obviously Gonzalo cassad has coming new coaching team
First game against England I mean that’s just a that’s it just looks treacherous for England given that their injury list and and how much we know Italy lik to how expansive and and enterprising we know that Italy like to play I’m sure kada who’s he was at stad France
Beforehand will have some some tricks up his sleeve um yeah new faces departures and yet we’re still going to have ween atonio and Dan probably starting it tight this weekend in the Six Nations so thankfully there’s a little bit of continuity you’re not screaming bold exciting New England era to me with that
You’ve said treacherous about a trip to Rome what’s going on well I just think I think it there’s certainly a chance it could be bold bold and exciting this New England era but it’s a bit up in the air I would say we’ll we’ll wait and see what happens and I
Think they will just want to get beyond that first game get into the tournament we’ve spoken a lot about how key momentum is in the Six Nations get get that banana skin Italy away potentially out you know get that off their back as it were then you head to twickingham
Against a Wales team where that Squad looks a little bit lighter than it has done over the past few seasons and then you you may be looking at two wins and you can build from that but it’s with with unavailability and injuries and and selection quandaries it’s probably not
Been the most ideal January for England however they do have a coaching staff that could hopefully put those weaknesses to one side yeah Charles right to to touch on the coaches there Felix Jones and and Andrew Strawbridge are clearly going to have some sort of impact with England cassad is a great
Great mention as well he was probably the the star of my six nations launch last week in Dublin his just how he spoke about things the one quote that stuck out to me was um you know I’m a Latin I’m G to I’m going to bring that passion especially for our defense
Because that was the area that actually just totally collapsed for Italy at the World Cup in those games um against New Zealand and France and um but but but also if we looking at Players I think that’s where the sense of renewal excitement comes in at the start of the
Start of the World Cup cycle just to quote Russ Petty to get me going follow Russ Petty or onx he’ll enrich a tournament but 34 debutants in the 2020 Six Nations the corresponding six nations of the world cup cycle 36 then across the subsequent three tournaments so this is the tournament traditionally
Where you know they where these debutant are blooded and then although we hate talking about cycles that becomes tedious because of this blinkered sort of view towards the World Cup this is really the opportunity for coaches to kind of lay a foundation to go for the
Next three years do we have to call it X now can we just call it that’s quite seamless the artist formerly known as Twitter you did it so naturally that I I hated it it’s time Charles just before we dig into bit of England chat you’ve you’ve watched the Netflix documentary
Which for my sins and you’ve reviewed it um from start no that’s to end that’s harsh um I I thought you I mean you didn’t put stars on your review but but if can I guess I I would I would guess that you would have given it three three
Probably on a generous day two if I was feeling a bit grumpy it’s probably two and a half I think it’s a decent enough first stab um I think the obstacles um while Netflix has not made too much of a big deal and the Six Nations hasn’t made
Too much of a big deal about those obstacles I think we all know what they were I think there was a little bit of um fear and trepidation among the teams and among the unions opening their doors fully to these camera Crews um but the good news is is as you’ll read on
Telegraph sport this morning on our website that the viewing figures last week were excellent uh it was the third most watched program in the UK it was the number one most Watch program in Ireland and fourth in France last week um by all accounts it took drives to
Survive the the formula 1’s equivalent series that Rugby Union is trying to mimic it took drive to survive two or three series to get to that sort of level um so that in terms of ratings and viewing figures that does Bode very very well that we know that the um the camera
Crews and the production um crews are with the squads now and they’ve been with them since the Six Nations launch in Dublin last Monday uh they traveled to to to Spain with England and to Portugal with Ireland we know that the series has not yet been recommissioned
But those viewing figures and the fact that the camera crews are in Camp with the squads you know it’s a boost for them and The Optimist would say it could and maybe should be reviewed for a second series I would like to watch a second series because I think that the
Drawbacks of the first series are quite easily fixed it’s too long there are five rounds and six teams you don’t need eight episodes um waiting till the third episode to introduce France and Ireland um the two best teams in the in the championship and with the best player in
The championship and they played one of the championship’s greatest ever games in Dublin last year was an error um and I’m not sure it was quite it wasn’t quite gripping enough um for a neutral and it wasn’t quite insightful enough for a rugby fan it was sort of a bit of
A gray area it was sort of you know robbing pet to pay Paul almost so if they if they tided that up um and focus more on the on the things that make rugby great the the characteristics that make be great the camaraderie the kinship the the team spirit and all
Those things that are very difficult to show in a documentary and fairness they could be onto a winner they focus on the individual too much and I think that rugby is not a sport which lends itself particularly easily the players are not at ease talking about themselves maybe
They need to be better but then the argument that that I would put forward is that rugby does have many many you know sundry qualities and that are based around a collective and if the documentary producers focused more on those qualities then the the individual the individuality that they’re craving
Would shine naturally you wouldn’t have to be artificially sort of projected and thrust to the viewer anyway that’s it R over no I think that’s very good I think that’s good as somebody who’s watched it I I the only point I I thought about as
You was saying that was I guess it’s not necessarily it’s it feels like it’s designed for like someone who watches the six nations in a world cup but not necessarily rugby week to week or someone who doesn’t watch rugby at all if that makes sense like it kind of
Feels like it’s in that like Middle Ground where it it hopefully entice more people in to watch it a bit more and that and that’s probably a good thing um yeah I think it’s a fair question to ask having watched it as you’ve touched on that who is this actually who has this
Documentary been made for who is who what is the target audience here if it is 18 to 24 year old genz where where rugby is sort of falling behind those who don’t know rugby that well I’m not sure it’s good enough to attract them but is it good enough for the the the
Casual rugby fan yes is it good enough for the the real committed fan the the proper loyalist not sure to to bring you back crudely to NFL again I think as a as a sort of um can’t stop it who who came into that sport as a newbie and was
Sort of my was introduced through a lot of these um all access documentaries I think the access point is just is so important because that’s where Stars come from organically I feel and and the point Charles makes there about having the Stars projected onto you I think can
Be a bit be a bit stifling that’s all I’d say yeah you almost if you’re going to do it you have to really open the doors and and also maybe for the second season just do some background checks to see if any of your players are going to
Go to the NFL by the time the series comes out might be a that big but the serious serious point there is that big lag time that’s year is such a long time and we’ve got we’ve got more um documentaries coming out haven’t we we’ve got um the there’s one on the
World Cup referees that’s going to be more intriguing for its for the how recent the subject matter is and then we’ve got one on um a little bit further down the line on Australia’s World Cup coming out I think at the end of February looks fun looks really fun and
It’s freshing our minds the World Cup fresher in our minds than last season six nations we either said it on the Pod or we said it at the time when they announced it was going to happen we’re like that’s quite a big gap between between you know when it’s being filmed
And when it’s being done and I guess we’re seeing that sorry yeah Charles just F I will quickly just go into bat I agree with what you both said and the wait is too long but I’ll quickly go into bat for um The Producers here because I don’t think they could have I
Don’t think they could have released it during the World Cup you know that would that would have been sort of completely self-defeating so therefore they’ve delayed it to tee up this year’s tournament this year’s championship sort of you know to tee up 20246 Nations and get people talking about the
Championship before the next Edition starts on Friday in marsill that that that is I think that’s the thought process just behind the the timing I don’t think it’s too flawed I don’t I’ve had they had their hands tied slightly so feasibly there could be a second
Series by the Autumn I don’t know I’m just speculating coming up we will be speaking to none other than Eddie Jones we’re excited to hear what the former England coach makes of this year’s tournament and we’ll also hear from Italy Sebastian negri as well one of the
Stars of the recent Netflix series he’s been speaking with Charlie before all that low let’s get stuck into England just a quick disclaimer listeners we recorded this before uh the news of Marcus Smith’s injury came out from Jona so just keep that in mind when you hear our discussions about England selection
Okay Owen Farrell is not involved Courtney laws is retired there’s a new captain who I think we all agree was a good choice to be Captain because we weren’t sure who else might be Captain so he he seems like an excellent fit in Jamie George Charlie let’s just talk
About that kind of change in leadership first cuz I think that’s going to be more important than maybe PE people realize how how big is that yeah and it’s hugely important and it and you feel sorry for see both look a little bit because he was kind of um you don’t
Want his whole England Reign so far to be about making excuses and making compromises for what’s happened before but he has got another tough set of circumstances thrust upon him in own F and Courtney laws they’re they’re not only losing 2 120ish tests they losing two different leaders you know you’ve
Got an emotional kind of a tenacious emotional leader in in ow Farland somebody who’s in Courtney laws who’s a lot more laid-back and you know do do as I do his performances um over the past 18 months and up till now have been phenomenal he’s been in over the course
Of he’s had a long long career he’s reinvent we’ve spoken so much about how he’s reinvented himself as a player over that long career and amazingly he’s ping Peak best career best form now which is just just remarkable I think there were two options weren’t there for bothwick
He could have done what Gatlin did and who’s gone with daff Jenkins as a real um Line in the Sand this is this is a new era we’re working towards 2027 um Gatland has obviously done that before in the past with some success um in in appointing someone like Sam bton um
Jamie George has got he got the air of a kind of trans transitional Captain but he’s super popular you know he’s going to have a hugely integral role to How England go because he played pretty much 80 minutes of those big games in the world cup and now that Luke Kiki’s gone
Down injured um he’s the most experienced hooker there by a long long way um Steve B’s value on the line out um makes him makes him even more important again so yeah it does feel I’ve seen a lot of people sort of go oh that’s kind of a bit underwhelming
Because it’s just such a a bridge um you know it’s not kind of not this Line in the Sand but I think England are going to have to kind of have to strike a bit of a compromise and and that’s kind of what that appointment appointment says to me we we’ve worked
With Jamie George for a long time obviously as a player and he was almost the player in recent years when things were tough who sort of got wheeled out in front of the media to kind of diffuse any potential situations the most recent example I can think of was after um the
Defeat to Ireland in Dublin in the warmups where he was the sort of the player who came out and was like look guys we know it was laughably regular though by the end I remember I remember one the the the corresponding corresponding point a year
Prior to that stad the France he was a guy that you was a zoom then because obviously but he was going yeah look we are we are working hard to promise I assume he was front of house after the France came twick him in the Six Nations
When they got obliterated but I can’t remember I can’t remember no but but basically what I’m saying is he sort of become this almost almost like this politician who sort of comes out and and and and I mean and I mean it’s in a good way sort of like tries to get the
Message across about what England are achiev which is quite interesting um Charles with no farell as Captain you also don’t have a kind of a fire half again one day we’ll stop talking about England sort of Midfield fly half selection canundrum we and we’ll just have one but your
Options now are George Ford coming back from injury Marcus Smith in very good form thin Smith tearing up trees with Northampton so neck on the line who starts in Rome this week I would start Finn Smith I think he’s been outstanding for Northampton this season and has
Shown uh a maturity and a level of game management that I think is not um necessarily shared by by Marcus Smith although he has hugely improved in in in that regard as well I mean you look at some of his performances for quins just before Christmas and he was he was
Absolutely outstanding but I think back to to Finn Smith for Northampton at tomman Park for against monster in the in the driving rign um 14 players I mean that’s as near to sort of test conditions as you’re going to get backs against the wall and he he marched them
Around the park it was you know it was Oar esque on on on the same field really it really really was um and regardless of his dual qualification status I think I would be really really tempted to to hand him the the keys I know it’s a risk
Because he he’d be debutant away away in Rome on opening like to take a risk like that it is it is unb bothwick like but it’s also pretty bothwick like to back who you think is the best player and not sort of not sort of you know take much
Account of the unmeasurable intangible qualities you know he would see he would see how well Finn Smith played in that monster game and not just in that monster game there’s other games but just using that one as as example because I think that’s as close as it’s
Been to to test rugby talk about Steve borwick kind of being pragmatic in that he will back form players I think he will be really wary of how well that Saints contingent has gone as a collective and I think furbank has just been really important to that is look
Looking like as as Charles said ding wall is the rookie who will be in um almost by default because of because of the number of of um injuries and un availability in in Midfield again that’s not that’s not that’s not to you know denigrate how well dingwell has been
Playing he’s a super super clever player versatile switches in in around 12 and 13 with Rory Hutson for Saints um and he’s been in around the England setup for ages despite being a fairly young guy still so um yeah i’ if if di Wall’s going to be there if Freeman’s going to
Be there if Alex Mitchell’s going to be there I think um Fairbank being there is quite a sensible Choice as well in an almost in an almost perverse twist of fate I think that furbank is almost a victim of the injury situation because I think if if it was Manu and Ary Lawrence
At 12 and 13 with everybody fit and firing starting then he might have looked at Fairbank 15 owing to that extra distribution because obviously he’s played fly half he’s he’s much better distributor much more of a ball player than Freddy Stewart but he’s probably really going to have to pick
Henry Slade in in the Midfield because really there aren’t really much other options so therefore you’ve got your distributor you’ve got a ball player so you can get away with Freddy Freddy Stewart at 15 can’t you for another year I find Freddy Stewart just a really fascinating piece of this of this
England side because we know his super strength is is fantastic probably unrivaled apart from Hugo Keenan as far as taking High balls and being commanding in that area however I’m not sure how much he’s kicked on as that as that link man I probably has a little
Bit you want you want more to just bring more out of the out of the backline that they’ve got and um Fairbank Fairbank certainly does that what I would say is although bwick is super fond of Freddy Stewart and and he’s you know Freddy Stewart helped him to win a Premiership
Title which has been a turning point of his whole career Steve bwick um he also didn’t pick him for the World Cup quarterfinal he went for he went for um Marcus Smith on the bench because he felt that England needed that little bit more help moving the ball wide didn’t he
So yeah that is they amazingly intriguing selection quries all around this England side and 15 is just another one of them it’s quite fun isn’t it especially the Fairbank story I love a a kind of mini Redemption story and given his last two appearances were starting
At fly half against Tonga and then being chucked into the side at the end of that 2022 Six Nations and they were like oh do you want to play fullback when he when he hadn’t played the whole Championship I think it’d be great to see him great to seem him involved it’s
A funny funny tournament in terms of England seemed to have a lot of UNCA players who are eligible for other teams and normally you get one or two but there’s kind of three with with Finn Smith and dingwell and Fay were both who on the Wing the cynical part of me
Wonders whether against Italy they just try and cap all of them just because then that risk sort of goes away especially especially Dingell with the form that he’s been in I don’t know how close he was to being called up by Scotland and Rory hutson’s obviously gone back there his Northampton teammate
And it’s going to be interesting with foso in particular because that caused a bit of a stir Charlie can you see him starting in R it’s a it’s a difficult one what I would say is two things one that’s Steve bwick um it highlighted volunteered him volunteered him explicitly as a when he
Didn’t have to as a player who’ impressed him in the Premiership it were there three players that came out of his mouth first of all which I F which I which took everybody pretty much in in the media room by surprise because this chatter about whether foso would choose
England or Wales felt a bit premature regardless of how he was playing in the Premiership but he he brought up um f boso brought up Ethan roots and he brought up Greg fsow Now Greg fow has made the widest Squad Ethan Roots has and and Ethan Roots has got a lot of
Praise from Steve bwick since then with FAO so the second thing I’d say the first thing is that Steve B seems to have tracked him for a long time and seems to have been really proactive and how he’s contacted him and got him now ahead of ahead of Warren Gatlin the
Second thing is that he is a he is playing in a really aggressive out towin Blitz system with with ex Chiefs that would seem to me to fit what we suppose Felix Jones will bring bring in as defense Coach and he’s as well as that he’s very proactive when when his side
Has the ball picking up touches Around The Rook will Greenwood um compared him to se Reese old black swing he’s even got a bit of the touch of the mark to layers about him which is a huge shout because Mark was one of the standout players of the World Cup final but there
Are as ever um reasons why Steve bwick has has picked a player and um I’m totally sitting on the fence as to where they think he’ll play there’s a there’s a slot there at right wing with with Johnny May’s retirement and he and he and he suits it Charles you’ve got seven
UNCA players in this in this squad and I know we’ve just talked up the uh how well Finn Smith and and ding will have been playing might Ethan Roots actually have the biggest impact just because of that kind of slotter at Blindside flaner where it seems a bit uncertain about
What England are going to do they could they could play Tom Pearson there and have some under Hill at seven or they could give rout to go from the off and that would be quite an impressive story wouldn’t it uh yeah absolutely you know he’s he’s another qualified with with
New Zealand yeah he must be because he’s born in New Zealand wasn’t he yes yeah um but he’s been he’s been excellent form for ex to the season a real a real find for them um from the Ospreys um you know exit have been going really well
Yeah the makeup of the back row is a strange one you you would assume that benell will reprise His World Cup role at number eight and then it is massively up in the air um I think had had George Martin OE chessum and Mara toj all Being Fit there would
Have been a real temptation to play one of those three at six with Earl at seven obviously Tom Curry’s out um and then either Ben Curry Sam Ander Hill or Pearson at seven um but George Martin obviously is is is injured um shortterm um said the Rel said the the press
Release um so yeah it’s massively open there Pearson has not played Pearson has not played a lot of six roots and is not uh a sort of front line line out jumper and we know how how important that is in modern day rugby to have that third
Jumper um so Roots could could easily get it and what a story that would be I I think that Underhill surely has to be the front runner at seven although he’s had he’s had a couple of knocks but I think he has to be the front front
Runner to where seven and then it’s probably a shootout between p and routs at six Ben Curry in the conversation as well I mean he could pick three sevens easily in in these times have Chang quite comforting to have a front row with Joe Mara Jamie George Dan Cole just
You know just making sure everything’s okay that’s interesting as well because we know bwick is about um sort of balance in his selection really explicitly and whether that is um sorry to those front rows that you’ve just mentioned whether that’s something like Mobility that he balances out with a with a kind of
Quicker back five what are you saying about that yeah I didn’t want to say it um or whether that’s experience so whether that I mean for for instance it was just such an explicit call to have experience in his back three for the World Cup wasn’t it with May with May
And daily and for that reason I think only one Wing slot is open because I think if there are going to be new faces elsewhere in the backline one of the and this good really dupid one of the safest calls would be to have OT daily continuing in that left wing spot yeah
Yeah that makes sense two points on England I want to finish off on um Henry Slade’s performances back in the squad sort of hinted that it was almost a bit of a necessity because you know there’s no oie Lawrence Joe marchants in France I don’t know which of you watched more
Henry Slade recently so I I will just toss this up in the air for whoever wants to talk about it why is Henry Slade back having not been in the World Cup I think he’s very unlucky not to get to the World Cup um so one reason um one
Reason is because he would have been very close anyway second reason Joe Marchant isn’t there obviously with stad third reason he’s um looked really um influential in in a in a really kind of calming assured way for a young ex to side um he’s very versatile he’s been um
As as will Greenwood again mentioned in our in our player profiles on our on our website he’s cutting a few kind of kind of tough tough kind of uncompromising running lines in heavy traffic which which is going to be handy because England don’t have t lagi or or Lawrence
Or or anybody like that to do that job um his left foot has looked gorgeous and we know um that’s you know that’s not news but exter have used it very very nicely on wiper lines he’s even had kind of spells in games very brief spells in
Games at 50 where that’s being a big weapon um so yeah a lot of reasons and um he was another one of the guys that in F right at the beginning of January so even before he he named a squad that bwick um bwick highlighted and just finally it feels like England couldn’t
Have brought in two um more different coaches personality wise than than Felix Jones and and Andrew Strawbridge based on what we’re hearing about Andrew stwd he seems like the kind of character who’s really going to provide a bit of levity to the squad as well as a lot of
Technical detail where Bru Jones if you hire a defense coach who’s just won two Rugby World Cups obviously you expect a lot can you can you outline for me how he’s going to change the way England play and and what we’re going to see from him Charles if I come to you first
Well it certainly they’ll have done their homework you know bwick has already spoken about how intense Felix Jones is and and and if Steve bwick is saying that then you know you know that Felix Jones is going to be an intense guy and very obsessive and and detailed
So the they will surely have a few tricks up their sleeve I remember before the World Cup last year bwick saying that you know um there’ll be a few things at the World Cup that we do that people wouldn’t have expected from us and and at that point I did sort of take
Him at face value because in that you think back to his time at Leicester in that Premiership final they did bring up did bring a few tricks out of the sleeve with Richard Wigglesworth and but we didn’t really see it in with the way that the World Cup panned out and and
The way that the games went we didn’t really see anything that we didn’t really expect from them and I wonder now marus Smith 15 marus Smith at 15 is would be the would be the anomaly to that um we didn’t see that much but I don’t I don’t think it changed the way
That they played that much give them a bit more width Maybe and Just allowed them to move the ball better but they they didn’t arguably they didn’t use Marcus Smith as well as they could have done at 15 um but having said that in this year’s
Six Nations I think there there will be a few tricks up the I mean with with with how the starting 15 is going to be with the amount of is missing in that back Division I think they’re going to have to have a few tricks up their
Sleeve if they are really sort of chatting about themselves as as title contenders and Championship contenders that’re they’re going to have to be really smart with the way that they play especially with also I’m I’m certain that a month ago Alfie barbrey would have been front and center of the of the
Plans to at least compete for the number eight starting Jersey and give a real heavy duty ball carrying option they’re not going to have that by the look of things um unless Alex dbrand starts at eight but even then he’s sort of more of a loose player isn’t he um so they’re
Going to be playing quickly they’re going to be playing fast and loose You’ you’d expect and just be really detailed about the breakdown and someone recently was it was it Jamie George who said that the defense is going to be completely you’re going to see a completely different it was Jamie
George who was saying that England’s defense is going to be completely different in in this year six nations and you probably get the feeling it’s going to be much more intense and much more aggressive having said that against South Africa in the um in the World Cup
Sem4 it was pretty intense and pretty aggressive so if it’s going to get even better than that then without the ball I think Inland fans will be in for a treat just finally on England what’s an acceptable tournament if we think about the schedu and who they’re playing if I
Think three wins would be good actually Charlie what would all all roads leave to mfield I think and that’s not that’s certainly not to overlook how threatening this first weekend could be for them because Italy have never beaten them they will have you new coach bounce
Um all those all those all those sorts of motivations um get over the line at mfield England England can be really pleased with themselves and yeah three wins for third be pretty pretty respectable I think it plays that well quite nicely doesn’t it because they have Italy well Scotland so if you can
Build that momentum through the three games you know maybe have a crack at the other two who who are clearly far more further along in their development than you and see what happens yeah no I agree I think that I think that third yeah third is probably sort of bare minimum I
Think if fourth would be a disappointment I think I think third third would be acceptable third would be par I think fourth would be a real disappointment because then you’ve probably only only won two games um perhaps the first two yes and perhaps the first two and then lost three on the
Bounds that’s you’re right all roads lead to murrayfield they could quite easily go to murrayfield and lose of course this is an excellent Scotland team however they will also be thinking that they could quite easily go there and win especially if the conditions suit them more than they suit Scotland
Scotland like to play very expansively and if if england are really detailed and if they go in with with a strategy like they had in that World Cup semi-final of of just trying to sort of win the game uh at the expense of potentially not being too entertaining
At murrayfield and there’s there’s no reason why they couldn’t win win at murrayfield you know it’s going to be tight it’s going to be tight it could go either way and it’s already shaping up to be an absolute belter ahead of this weekend’s Clash let’s get some insight
Now into this weekend’s opponent Italy Sebastian negri star of the aforementioned Netflix series has been speaking with Charlie hell welcome to the telegraph rugby podcast how are you few days out now from Six Nations opener how are preparations coming along yeah no all good the side uh in Rome we got you two
Days ago um nice to be training in the sun um but no really excited for for this weekend um obviously you know we’re under no Illusions it’s going to be a tough tournament but uh one we’re looking forward to se one one big strand of the buildup
To this year’s six nation has obviously been uh the n fix documentary full contact UM at the risk of embarrassing you you’re one of its stars um what what’s it what’s it been like for you um I imagine a reasonably new experience building up to a tournament when you’re
Um when you’re headlining in a Netflix documentary yeah it’s been a bit uh surreal I guess um but no I’ve been I’ve been obviously taken back by a lot of the support and and all the feedback that I’ve been given it’s been um pretty special um you know just people getting
In touch and saying how proud they are and you know people that have known me you know not recently but you know from this from the beginning so you know that side of it’s been been pretty cool um obviously getting quite a quite a bit of
Stick off the off the boys um as one would expect um but no it’s been it’s been a really cool experience um obviously not used to any of that um but I think it’s a it’s a really good thing for rugby and um you know I think it
Showcases to everyone you know that that we’re just human beings away from away from what we do on a Saturday and um you know I think you know the audience I I know from from the feedback that I’ve been given is just maybe a bit more appreciation for what we go through and
And all the sacrifices that we make um so I think you know that’s been that’s been pretty special was was there a pride in your performance in that in that England Italy game last season so um because although you guys went down personally I remember thinking at the time how well you’d got
Yeah I I think so I mean I listen I always I always want to do well personally that’s just you know the nature of sport obviously I was gutted you know and I have been gutted on numerous occasions playing for Italy you know when we haven’t got over the line
And you’ve given it everything so um yeah but I think it was I think it was special for me also because of what had happened you know you know leading up into that game you know the last time I played against England I’d got a horrific head injury you know which took
Me a long time to to get over not only the symptoms that I had you know with waking up you know vomiting and headaches and and yeah just not being at the races really that that had a massive effect on me um and also the people that
Were close to me because they could see that I wasn’t myself um and then to get to you know to get that confidence again to to keep going and then you know just going into that in game just thinking you know I just want to give it everything and hopefully everything
Turns out okay and you know I was really proud of proud of how I did individually but I also think you know that second half fight that we showed against England um was pretty special and when you perform as a team it just makes everything um you know better
And there’s just a better feeling zooming out Seb on on Italy as a team on you guys as a team you’ve shown a lot of promise and you’ve won a lot of fans over the last year with the way that you you played yeah um and I I mentioned
This to M Mich on on um at the Six Nations launch the World Cup must have hurt in the way way that finish can you can you talk to me about where you feel you are as a team with that in mind yeah it definitely hurt us because you know
We had we had worked so hard to get a lot of respect and credibility back and we genuinely believed that we had what a you know had the the tools and and and the talent and the team to to put a better performance in against France and
And uh New Zealand and and to be fair if you look at the whole world cup we probably weren’t at the races for most of us um we didn’t really have a convincing performance against Namibia um against Uruguay it was the second half performance that got us over the
Line and then you know we let ourselves down and there’s no one else you can blame I’m not going to sit here and and say you know the staff weren’t fully with us or something happened during the week we got to take responsibility as players and we let ourselves down and
Now we have an opportunity the Six Nations to make it right um because over the last 12 to 18 months you touched on it that we have gained you know a lot of fans through the way we play and you know I don’t think there’s many teams
Out there that take it Italy likely um which is which is a really good thing and a step forward but now it’s the next step is about getting results and you know that’s you know that’s how you judged at the end of the day so we know
For while players what’s expected of us um and we’re looking forward to it we’re under no ill illusions that this Six Nations tournament is going to be tough like like every six nations tournament but we got to take that step step further and and and put some performances that we’re really proud of
On the back of having two really poor performances and results in the World Cup every team goes through um some kind of renewal I guess at the start of a World Cup cycle and and it it’s going to be an England Team without without Courtney laws and without among among
Others does that change things and does it change how you view England as a challenge absolutely not um yeah I have we be honestly speaking we haven’t spoken about who’s missing who’s come in you know we’re playing England they’re the third best team in the world um you
Know they’re a they’re a dangerous team now with one or two attacking players that they’ve got Marcus and other guys I’d like to throw the ball around and then they’ve got a really good set piece and when you have a really good set piece at International International level just sets the whole
Tone for the game um they’ve got a really good Mall good scrum good pack um and they’ve got guys that are in the Prem that are in form so we’re under no Illusions um you know what and thinking about who they’re missing and who’s not playing um we’re playing England and
It’s always one of the toughest and you know I think I’ve played England or six or seven occasions and every single one of those games has been you know physical hard um and really really tough so yeah uh we’re under no Illusions Seb good luck for the weekend and the rest
Of the championship and thank you so much for your time no pleasure Charlie thanks so much man thanks Charlie great to hear from Italy Sebastian negri there and we’re now going to speak to Eddie Jones the New Japan head coach to get all his thoughts on his new role in the Six
Nations hi Eddie whereabouts are you uh currently in Italy mate in Florence so it’s not a bad spot very nice is that for a bit of scouting ahead of later this year how come you’re over there uh yeah just have a look at England and Italy this week um and just
Spending a bit of time with uh one of the players I used to coach at Sison who’s coaching at benon oh okay which one’s that uh Fabio angara oh yes yeah I remember him oh very good yeah so just just catching up to him have a bit of a
Chat and find out about Italian rugby what does he make of it uh no I haven’t we’re just about to catch up mate I just arrived oh great brilliant um it’s good to talk to you again we last spoke um in November and and now you’re you’re in charge of Japan
I remember when everyone think remember sort of bright and and that famous Day from your your first thing with Japan but I know that when you joined in 2012 a lot of work went into getting the team into that kind of position where they can pull off that famous result and
Installing that fast expansive style are you now now that you’re back with Japan are you starting from sort of a stronger Point than then and and what are your priorities in the role uh well I think there’s a number of things that’s improved mate uh if you
Look at the standard of the the top domestic League which is now called League one that’s improved remarkably like yeah you look at the quality of the top four teams and it’s you know not a bad standard at all um but then you look at the World Cup squad and and whilst I
Was I was taking over Squad in 2011 that still had players that could go on 2015 which is always an advantage now if you look at the squad in 2023 it was one of the oldest squads at the World Cup so yeah that means that we’ve got to rebuild and bring younger players
Through um and you know fast tracking young players in test Rugby’s uh a challenging part of of coaching a challenging part for any national team so we’re looking forward to taking on that challenge when we spoke in ofm you talked about how in your next your next
Role you wanted to you weren’t really liking the way the game has played and you wanted to try and do things a bit differently and change the game a bit can you sort of elaborate how you’re hoping to do that with Japan now that you’re on board
There well I think you you always want to play a little little bit differently um you know the status quo is in place and it’s generally in place because uh that’s been the system that’s been in place for a number of years uh the players equipped to handle that and
If you try to play that sort of rugby all you’re doing is playing catchup you know which has been that power power based high high kicking game and and South Africa evolved to another step at the world cup with the with the their exceptional counter attack and their exceptional transitional play um which
Took it to a new level um but with Japan we’re going to have to play differently um yeah because we’re going to have a a smaller team than the rest of the world and I think you know historically if you look at when Japan’s been successful in 2015
2019 particularly they played a style of game that was a little bit different from everyone else so we need to go back to to the past to create the future but we also need to add on some some more uh strategic elements to our game
You know we at the moment now in rugby as we know it’s it’s almost impossible to play continuously long phases of rugby which Japan was very good at you very little little teams progress post the post the quarterfinals playing that sort of rugby so you got to play much
Quicker you got to play with Pace um so we got to add that to our game and that a strategic kicking game to it any players in particular who you’re quite excited by kind of younger players who we might not be familiar with over here
In the UK uh well I could name them but they won’t mean much to you mate hey you’ve playing England twice this year we’re going to see some of them yeah no you will uh there you know there’s two or three good young tens around um which is obviously such a
Crucial position and it’s been really fascinating in the league one here you know watching three of the best players have all been Japanese size cheslin kobby Richard manga anduaga Smith you have all been absolutely outstanding but they’re all little guys you know manga’s 80k ches and kobby 76 K quago Smith plays at
94k so it shows where the level of the game can go and and that’s what we got to Aspire our our Japanese players to to be thinking about the think not just to be good in Japan but to be getting that challenge to be good in you know as one
Of the world’s best when we chatted in November there was so much um speculation about you and Japan and whether that was where you were going to go and and it had been going back for weeks and and months into the World Cup are you you sort of happy now to sort of
Set the record straight in terms of how that all played out and how you ended up with Japan and when those first conversations happened oh well I think I’ve covered all of that mate um you know I don’t look back with it with any any feeling that I’ve been anything but upfront with
Australia Australia knew what was going on um I I never had any intention to leave Australia but when Australia wasn’t able to to fulfill their obligations um and we’ve seen today I think the rebels have gone bankrupt um it’s a tough time for Australia but you
Know to to progress with from where they are they need to get things together and that means that they’ve got to make some hard decisions and they and they’ve got to they’ve got to develop their players differently there’s a uh St sport unveiled a trailer for documentary
That’s coming out which was filmed sort of during the the World Cup what are you what are you sort expecting from that have you seen any of it and what are you expecting to sort of come out of it as well oh I got now idea and don’t really
Care like you know that’s all history now will you watch it at all uh probably not and I moved on mate you know and I think one of the things you’ve got to do in in rugby in any any role you’ve got whether it be a coach or
A player you if you keep on looking back over your shoulder and keep keep wanting to either go back or escape from from what it was it it doesn’t doesn’t treat you at all well in what you’re doing now so I’ll just just got to move on you
Know I I uh had my time as tril I had to go um you know was spoken about there was reasons for for for it not working out as it did but uh I take full responsibility for it and move on mate but I don’t want to look back now sure
Yeah yeah with um with the Six Nations coming up England not going to have Owen Farrell there who who was obviously your captain for so long and and he’s announced that he he won’t be playing in the Six Nations cuz he’s taking a break for his his mental well-being and his
Family’s mental well-being I just wondered what you made of that situation and the fact that he’s he’s now going to rassling as well and he won’t be an England player from from the summer what do you make of how that’s played out well I think it’s
A it’s a sad indictment on on how we operate as a society now you know I think yeah you couldn’t get a more committed hardworking diligent player than Owen farell you know and and his record as a point scorer I don’t know where he sits now but he’s you know he’s obviously up
There in the top three isn’t he so you know he’s he’s one of the greats of our game and and the fact that yeah we don’t we don’t know the reason why he’s dropping out but we do know what happened during the World Cup you know
Where uh he was booed consistently by by fans and you know there was some context that you know even his own fans could have been buing him uh he’s been attacked and his family’s been attacked on social media for what you know because he’s a hard hard committed
Player he’s being attacked for that so yeah all of that doesn’t sitp well but um as we know social media is not going to go back mate it’s going to keep going forward and it’ll reach the N degree and then some will pull it back as as what
Happens with all of these things have you spoken to him at all since that decision uh we’ve had some text messages yeah yeah yeah it’s going to be um it means that England is sort of in this a bit of a rebuild now with with Jamie George’s Captain you’ve obviously worked closely
With him how do you think he’ll get on in the role yeah Jamie will do a good job mate but you know I think you know Steve’s got the inevitable task of of rebuilding England in a in a high expectation high demand environment and I’m sure he’s
Going to do a good job and Jamie will do a good job bringing the the team through you know in reality that team’s been going through transition since 2021 um and it’s been a long transition period um and you know you’ve got to congratulate the the players on what
They did at the World Cup in 2020 three I thought they you played some really good tough English rugby and I’m sure they’re going to do that in the Six Nations I’m sure Jamie will get the best out of the team there’s quite a few unap
Players in in the squad I think about seven of them I wondered if any of them were on your your radar when you were when you were still with England someone like Finn Smith for example who we might see starting against Italy this weekend yeah look he was he was just
Coming through you know he he’d been playing for Worcester and obviously w were you know uh not performing greatly so it was difficult for him but he just moved to Northampton when I was about to to leave and you know was showing signs of of developing his game he’s a you
Know he’s got a good skill set good kicking game quite a mature calm player and one of those young tens that seems to have experience already you know a bit like an Owen Farrell type um so he’ll he’ll probably make the jump to test rugby uh quicker than the more
Instinctive tends do like a manga or a Marcus Smith and I was going to ask you a bit of a cheeky question but in in hindsight who was easier to work with there are a few or rugby Australia given you both work for them recently uh look mate I’ve found the
Longer I’ve worked I found every Union to be the same yeah they they’ve all got they all want to do well um yeah some of got more resources than others um the politics of the of the unions are the same they just have different different colors different jackets you know different leather
Patches on their on their elbows but it’s it’s very much the same and facing England twice this year you looking forward to that uh well I think it’s fantastic for Japan yeah if you consider again eight years ago Japan Japan was the joke country of of world rugby you
Know everyone could play against them you know they’ play their B team against them at the World Cup and beat them by 70 points um and now they’ve got you know we’ve got a fixture list of two England first and last game and we’ve got France and New Zealand in between so
We got the you know we got the full buff M with um with the Six Nations kicking off do you miss it all the intensity and the rivalries of it it’s quite a quite a crazy swe period isn’t it when it’s all going on uh it is a fantastic
Competition fantastic competition so I don’t miss it but um it’s a fantastic competition to be involved in I’m sure 2016 and and the Grand Slam would be your highlight I just wondered what what other favorite memories you sort of have from it uh well I think it’s always the games
Where you played really well I can remember I’m just trying to think of the year it was either 2017 where we played Island first up maybe M um and yeah we hadn’t been able to beat them um and we came out of the blocks really quickly and got 20 points on them
Early and played some really good rugby that day I think any of those games against you know France and Ireland are always the highlights where you got to play well to beat them and if I ask you just for a prediction in terms of a winner this year who do you think looks
Strongest and and will probably end up with the title yeah I think you know post the World Cup it’s always a difficult year to predict um because you don’t know how teams come up um you know I remember in 2020 we were a long way from our best
Because we still had a bit of a 2009 hangover but we you know in that Co interrupted we still managed to win the win the six nations in 2020 so I would think you know the strongest teams have been France and Ireland and they will have a bit of a World Cup
Hangover um you know France have obviously missing the Pont SE uh Ireland are Miss Missing seon and England are missing Farrell so they’re you know they’re three Talisman players that are missing from those teams so each of those three teams how they cope with with missing that player and more so not
Only their play but also their leadership I think is going to be important you know the ponts one of of those more uh you know adventurous type leader because of the way he plays you know and I think he inspires his players to give more seon was a
Coordinated calm you know we know where we going and no one had a bit of the fire in Brin Stone plus being you know exceptionally tough player himself so they’ll all miss that and who can fill the Gap the quickest or I think will be
The team that wins out of that so I’m not giving you good answer about as close as I can get it’s almost it almost feels like a title decider on the first game on the first night doesn’t it with with irland going to marsill to face France and whoever
Comes out of that will be yeah well well I think I think you get a pretty good indication of where both teams are um early in the comp because of that you know England with Italy Italy probably came through were probably one of the most disappointing countries at the
World Cup um you know cuz I had play played really well they’ve got a they’ve got a new coaching cader who bring a diff a much different approach to the game than than what Kieran wanted uh Italy to play you know Italy were a high passing game I would imagine under cader
They’re going to be much more of a running kicking team uh bit more set piece um and it’ll be interesting to see whether they can reach the heights that they did under Kieran so France to win it if I push you uh I would think so mate I would think so
Um but I think it’s going to I think it’s going to go down the way might one of those ones that’s decided on the last round yeah and will you watch the games as much as you can I know you’re in Italy now so you I’ll watch every game
Every game with interest I’m going out there on on Saturday to have a look because we’re playing both of them um which will be good um yeah know and there’s usually 40,000 English fans here should be a good turn up Eddie thanks for much for your time great to
Hear from you good on you Ben cheers thank you very check to again cheers keep well thanks boys thanks for your time Eddie great to hear from you uh let’s look ahead now to the rest of the weekend’s Matches okay it’s quite an appealing opening weekend of the six SS I think mainly because of this very spicy Friday night game in where is it Charles marsill why is it not in Paris because of the 2024 Summer Olympics they’ve moved France have moved all their games
Around the country so they face Ireland in marsill Italy in Le and England lunch in the final weekend in Leon France irand then to open let’s talk about oh this is a great question to pose to you to who is the biger Miss depont for France or Sexton for Ireland Charlie
Seon for Ireland Ben oh good answer why because France have luku who um arguably is a nicer fit for Matthew jelar who’ll be there um 10 um the club colleagues at Bordeaux and I just think there’s more of an unknown with how Ireland sorry go about um replacing replacing seon it
Looks like Jack Crowley doesn’t it um who’s going to who’s going to be 10 in instead lots of swagger about Jack Crowley nice neat kicking game um as I say lot lots about him but there’s just that just that question mark and in such a pivotal position that they’re
Obviously going to have to they’re just they’re just not going to be the same s side um because of how pivotal and how influential Johnny seon has been to them another big Miss I think is is Matt Kon potentially an underrated Miss um he’s he’s like that they have loads of they
Have loads of Playmakers don’t they Keenan’s Keenan’s fantastic a fullback for them as well but in that sort of multifaceted attack with that um kind of unpredictable phase play and you know layers of Runners all over the shop Hansen buzzing around just ties it all together so nicely and he had a
Phenomenal Six Nations last last um last season so big Miss there too I find crowly fascinating because it felt like they sort of they were searching for the the success for quite a while and and they’ve tried so many players and actually it’s quite a short and sharp
Apprenticeship for for Jack Crowley like he’s only got nine caps it was Autumn of 2022 I think or maybe that summer where he first came in so he has sort of been given the keys to what otherwise Hansen being absent is still a fairly strong side on paper Charles from things no no
It definitely is um yeah people are coming back for more and I mean Crowley was against Finn Smith in in that monster North hampon game as well and and he actually you know Finn Smith completely outplayed him not meaning to go you know harp on too much just going
Back to that but I wasn’t actually too impressed by Crowley that evening and I did think uh is the you know is that is that is really sort of is he really the man is he really the man to to be the air to seon um I’m not sure but I mean
Yeah I mean this is just going to be absolutely Humdinger on Friday night isn’t it you said it was spicy it’s it’s vindaloo vindaloo levels of spice I think just neither I mean we’ve already spoken quite a bit in this in this podcast about momentum in the Six
Nations and I think neither team will want to lose on on Friday night for obvious reasons in that you just never want to lose a game of rugby and and because both are looking to avenge or at least move on from um disappointing um world cup placings but also in terms of
The the scope of the championship as as of as a five round Affair you don’t want to lose the first game because then you you basically have to win the second game to to keep your Championship hopes Al and where to France go on the on the second weekend there at murrayfield on
The on the second weekend is that correct and so you know you know they would be favorites for that game but again not a foregone conclusion for them to go there and and and win really not I I don’t know what Harry Burns Fitness status is but but I wonder chatting
About the the Finn Smith combinations with his Northampton teammates I wonder if he was fit whether they just would have gone right you’ve got Gibson Park and loads of ler players around you let’s just let’s just slot you into this backline ahead of crowy and just keep
Keep that kind of Lent the field for a bit of continuity especially giv his I mean we’ve spoked about Mars before because I think we’ve all covered matches there now and it and it’s probably up there as one of our favorite venues to see a test match because it’s
It’s just wild isn’t it so that’s fascinating for for Ireland and I think we were all fairly settled on that these two teams the one one of them is going to win the whole thing yeah and probably France because they’re at home is that Charlie where you’re kind of you’re
Leaning at the moment that’s where I’m leaning I you know Scotland having France at home after after they go to Wales two wins there I mean it’s that’s yeah as you said not a forone not a foregone conclusion and they’ve troubled France in in various ways over the last
Couple of years in the in numerous times they played they’ve played each other they went back to back I know they were only World Cup warm-ups but uh Scotland were fantastic in France for a lot of that game too um they they could certainly break up that that order but
Yeah I’m think I’m with you with you at the minute that it’s those two battling out for for one and two Scotland are actually the team that interests me the most I know that might sound a bit strange because they actually are the team that hasn’t gone through the most
Change like they’re not missing as many big hitters I know Darcy gray might be out for I think potentially the first couple of games with the injury but the core of their side is still there they’re not trying to replace anybody which actually makes you think come on Scotland like finally 25
Years can we see a title charge like if can you win in Cardiff against Wales which actually on paper doesn’t sound like that hard a task even where Wales are but something they don’t do enough something they haven’t done for an age I don’t think can you beat France at home
Having come really close in 2020 I think it was like they need to start winning these games I want to take them more seriously I want to believe the title contenders this is going to be the time I hope I hope this isn’t the case because I hope there are more twists and
Turns along the way over the next over the course of the next couple of months but it does feel like the winner on Friday night wins the whole thing but I I really do I really do hope that that isn’t the case and it isn’t as much of a
Forone conclusion there we go again um as that I I really I really hope that there’s more Intrigue to the to the whole Championship than simply Italy losing five matches and either France or Ireland winning all five matches after winning in Mar on Friday night you know
You do hope there was more Intrigue than that especially after the World Cup where it was an all southern hemisphere final can we have a bit of a bit of drama a bit of drama and bit of intrigue please yeah we had to do our predicted tables didn’t we and I kind of
Yeah I thought top bracket France Ireland middle bracket England Scotland bottom bracket Wales Italy and I just hope one of them jumps between them that’ be fun wouldn’t it yeah to correct myself 2022 Scotland lost to France they’ beat them in 2020 but I just think
If they can win I mean you can win in Cardiff you could potentially beat France at home at mfield we’re not mad about England given the changes that England have got going on in their selection at the moment and if the fact that it feels England at the start of a
Cycle then you play Italy oh God I’m starting to believe here and and then you but Ireland are just the par and then you go to Dublin at the end aren’t they um I don’t know go yeah they’ve just been they’ve been bullied and sort of
Mugged by hor in various ways that’s the big final boss isn’t it quite apply in the final round and also because the record against them is is not not great every side have got has got either a new 10 a new coach or a new captain right
And SC Scotland have got same coach same 10 but they the the captain had the luxury of changing their Captain just because they they’ve taken it off Jamie Richie and get is still in the squad yeah yeah they just decided to go and new people which is actually not something that other
Teams have been able to do no I mean we sort of convincing ourselves here of Scotland Grand Slam World Cup win 202 no absolutely not and and I’ve been fooled before by Scotland so chat to me next Monday when we’re back in the studio after I’ve seen Wales put 20 on the
Cardiff or whatever and and it’s all in tatas I just want I’m just getting a bit frustrated that this seems to be a very talented group and I feel like there’s more that they can deliver that’s all that’s all I’m saying um and we should chat about Wales actually as well given
That’s that’s the game on Saturday the late game in Cardiff which where’s in such an interesting place I I love this I feel a bit bad for David Jenkins that he sort of being talked about as Alan wi Jones Mark two and and Warren Gatlin sort of suggested that last week when he
Said he’s he’s a captain in the mold of of alen win Jones you almost think well don’t say that just say that he’s quite a quiet kind of determined Captain but but these are the these are the standards that are being set for him to follow the Reit news I think the shock
Of that I think is probably already subsided as in obviously he would have been in their plans to play he would have been a key figure in that backline he’s such a threat at 22 this this cycle might have been the cycle where he’s already achieved so much but maybe maybe
The foure cycle where he he took over the world at the moment he’s not there let’s see how the NFL thing pans out who knows I think the fact there’s no Dan biger at fly half the fact there’s no Jack Morgan seems to be the thing that’s that
People are forgetting like ch’s not there because of knee surgery like he was in a in a good World Cup campaign for Wales he he was the best player by m I think he even ended up in a lot of team of the tournaments as well at the
End he was fantastic so therefore ch’s expectations is quite low about Wales aren’t they but that’s probably exactly what Warren Gallen wants yeah no absolutely I think there is a little bit of that Siege mentality there I think expectations are low um but at least they don’t they don’t have to go to
France you know they they will have France at home um and they will have Italy at home as well I know that didn’t make much of a difference two years ago but um you know these These are games the Italy I mean the Italy game could be
Another must-win for them um and the fact that that the Italians have to travel to Cardiff you know Wales will be regardless of what happens you’d expect Wales to be favorites for that game um but yeah I mean expectations are low for Wales would we say is that fair enough I
Think that I think that they are in that bottom bracket with Italy this season but also perfectly happy to be proven wrong would love to be proven wrong because they’ve got some quality young talent I mean Dai Jenkins has been been Sublime for X to this season in the
Second row um Tommy reffle is get gets better with every game for Leicester when he can stay fit um Sam Costello looks like he has potential to be a real sort of a real Leading Light at fly half Nick Tomkins has look good for Nick look
Real good for Saron as he always does you know there there are real good players there um and you just you just hope that for such a rich rugby country you hope that they don’t start this isn’t the start of a sort of gradual decline for them and you hope that there
Is a a real strong future for for Welsh rugby they should have been in the World Cup semi final shouldn’t they they they were they created enough to beat Argentina created Created enough line breaks couldn’t couldn’t convert them and the line out went to pot um but then
So much has changed since then so it’s difficult it’s almost like they’re starting again and yeah I I am pessimistic about them have to say Scotland’s last win at the Millennium Stadium anybody 2002 no 2002 Scotland please thank you this is it this has got to be it right
Let’s wrap that section and have some of your questions okay before we start the questions just reacting to some developing news as we sit here in the podcast Studio which is the mid olymp reporting that Courtney laws is just a signature away from signing for breathe next season
Charles that feels like a classic club for Courtney laws to join in France if you if you’d said to me courney laws are going to join join a French Club for some reason I’m ah head brief seems like a perfect fit that’s going to be from a
From a breath angle can you tell us a bit about brief and what they’re up to at the moment yeah I can um I I didn’t think I’d be doing that on this six Nation that’s the game um so their second division French Club obviously they’ve they’re European Champions in
1997 they’ve they yo-yo quite regularly between the top 14 and the and the P the second division they have uh a wealthy owner who’s an Englishman um Ian Osborne uh and they’ve got Grand designs they’ve got they’ve got they’re a very very ambitious Club they want to get straight
Back into the top 14 um they’re currently I’m off the top of my head I’m going to go sixth in the in the Pod table they’re certainly in and around the playoff spots they had a really ropey start to the season under Pat Kazo the coach he was sacked Pier re Bronco
The former cast coach he was Eddie Jones’s Mall Coach with Australia um as now I think they’ve won five four of their last five or five of their last six matches they’re right back into the playoff spots for the for the p and I imagine that Courtney laws W have been
Offered quite a lucrative uh contract and offer um to go there and they’re a very ambitious club and um a rugby mad town I’ve never actually been to the town or the ground but by all accounts I think get I think I think something silly like half of a third of the town’s
Population go and watch if if the if the stadium is full it that comprises a third of the town’s population um and good luck to him why why not I’m sure he’ll be a great fit it’s a shame for English rugby it’s a shame for the Premiership it’s a shame for Northampton
Because I did think that he might end his career as a one club man but clearly he wants to go and experience something else and you can’t begrudge him that now to actually get into your questions um we had one from Elliott which was to say
Uh which young player will will have a breakthrough season in this year’s tournament we’ve actually all picked kind of predictions for the tournament and I don’t know when they’re going to be up online but you’ll see them at some point but because of that that means we
Can tell you who we’ve picked for our breakthrough player so um Charlie start with you who have you gone for I went with Joe McCarthy um and Elliot might agree with me because I actually bumped into him at that game um oh great so uh he was his athleticism and dynamism in
That game fener was eye popping and there he’s got nasty streak about him as well which all big enforcer locks it tends to be quite handy um he’s growing a mullet um more in on him he he he’s got a handful of caps for Ireland and
Hasn’t played in Six Nations yet I don’t believe um so it’ be his first taste of the tournament um and Andy Farrell has potential headaches around the back five and how he configures that and McCarthy’s capable of Smashing all that up and and being a starter I think did a
Mullet genuinely come into the thinking yeah yeah yeah he looked uh he looked genuinely scary well trying to choose trying to choose those players isn’t easy sometimes you just need something to to tip you over the line fine margins I mean speaking of scary I went with
Emanuel Mayu the UNCA French lock who also qualifies for New Zealand and Australia um but he he says he’s France thr through wants to play for France he’s been at too for the past two or three seasons and has been tearing it up over there um when can we expect to see
This is the annoyingly I slightly shot myself in the foot because he’s not fit uh for this Friday night’s match against Ireland and he might not be fit for the Scotland game either I think he’s due to play at least three matches for France I think that he would have started this
Friday night um had he been fit he’s sort of filling that because they’re missing TBO flamm in the second row as well and he had leap frogged Paul vuma in the pecking order vuma is now back um just he’s the sort of the late he’s the more likely of of France’s two
Gargantuan locks that they’ve caught up poo Tangi um manu’s nephew yes um the other one Mayu we are much more likely to see Mayu I think um just because he’s played more high level Elite rugby um and his his impact on that toose team
Has been sens I think he’s got for for a man who is so big I think he’s got the most Jackal turnovers in the Champions Cup this season which is staggering when I found out Elliot actually suggested to aagi who um yeah like you say I 19 and
Over 23 Stone so when he does get involved we’re we’re going to notice I’ve met him actually and he’s a lovely lovely lovely bloke ex um and I was expecting I I I I rolled out my my sort of my best French and he just replied saying I speak English bro okay that’s
Good I oh okay let’s do English then um I also went with the French player I went with noan larck the young scrum half from rassing I watched him in a champions Cup quter Final uh against s about 18 months ago where he bossed the show and I thought it’s not fair that
France basically get to have this much scrum half depth in that he’s coming through to rival dupon I think like we’ve said Maxim Luka will start but legar who can goal kick as well will come off the bench and most likely close out games for France during the
Tournament and yeah he looks really impressive still just 21 um Simon sent us five questions so I’m going to read them all out and we’re going to pick two they are in order how much of a drop off should we expect from Ireland which France is going to turn up why are Italy
One to watch fictionist wise is this England’s year and any indication if the Netflix stock is cut through well we sort of done Netflix and we’ve sort of done um have we done we touched on Ireland a bit um let’s chat a bit more about Italy
We haven’t done that yet and and Charlie your your new best mate Gonzalo cada clearly made an impression on you at the launch so what what did he sort of set out that he wants from his team as well as that aggressive defense um well it was sort of more stability and
Solidity with regard to defense and just and you and mich Laro I kind of invited him to talk about the World Cup if he wanted to at that launch and and he did and he said things like it their moments that we’ll never forget anybody that was
Part of those two losses will will never forget them and they were chastening I wasn’t at either of them I was um I was one of my shuttles back to the UK so I was watching them from the from the UK and they were horrible um so if you’re
Taking out if you’re taking out those um just those lapses you’d expect cada to do that you’d expect him to maybe add a little bit of a little bit in the in the kicking game um I was just having a look at the stats actually you earlier today
Italy had by quite a decent way the fewest uh kicking meters per game and you did just as much as they under Crowley the way they moved the balls fantastic and and the patterns that they were kind of running in in Phase play really fun with those um kind of
Playmakers and cat so like SW swinging across the field in in in deeper layers to attack you did just sense sometimes that they played the way certainly it tooken and played the way into trouble a bit um I would expect them to be a little bit more pragmatic and to play to
Make sure that they’re playing running those those patterns in better areas and more pragmatic areas of the field um and that could be that could be the difference You Know That Could That Could That Could allow them to really really stick in with teams they stuck in
With France last year they stuck in with with England last year for for well sorry I’m lying they struck stuck in with Scotland last year for for decent periods and and were right in the mix at the end of that game um yeah could get
Them over the line and Charles if I pick a second question from Simon if I pick which France are going to turn up I imagine the answer is probably a very good one and a very ticked off one how things panned out at the rain World Cup
Yeah I think that’s a fair assessment I think we’re sorry Simon but I think we’re actually now getting to the point where that question is can be can be sort of filed in the cabinet and left there forever because I think we’re going to have a pretty good France uh
For years and years to come they’re dominating age group age group level and the club game is the most elite of any country in the world and you know they were knocked out of the World Cup in the quarterfinal by the eventual champions in a game that could
Have gone either way so I think they’re going to be perennially dangerous probably for the rest of hopefully for the rest of our lifetimes because a good France means just good Global rugby I think I don’t think we’ve said it yet just a very very finish onm last night
France Grand Slam like if they beat Ireland on Friday which I think we’re leaning towards then why why not because because we just biged up Scotland so much yeah it’s it’s the year of three games at home so Charlie you can’t trust Scotland come on Scotland grandson right that’s it for today thank
You Charlie thank you Charles a big thanks to Eddie Jones and Bastian negri for speaking with us too to help us preview the Six Nations thanks to you for downloading the podcast if you’re new here welcome along and make sure to tell all the rugby mad friends in your
Life about what we’re doing the three of us will be here every week throughout the Six Nations and we’ll be joining with some top guests along the way as well that’s all for this week enjoy the opening weekend of Six Nations action and we’ll catch you next week goodbye
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