Lanterne Rouge on his 11kg Weightloss, 5.5 w/kg FTP and Money in Pro-Cycling

Special episode featuring Patrick Broe, the @LanterneRougeCycling from the @LanterneRougeCyclingPodcast.

After the demise of @gcn + we discuss the potential issues for cycling to try and reach its fans, especially in Australia and the United States. LR discusses his own cycling, the Norwegian Training takeover, the @hubermanlab effect and we have some fun guessing cycling brands from their marketing bio’s.

We hope you enjoy this one.

Chapters:
00:00 intro
00:30 Viewing Cycling Post GCN+
10:06 F1 driver bigger then cycling
15:51 YouTuber at the TDU
24:39 LR Fitness Vlogs
39:50 Can LR get to 5.5w/kg?
50:32 Norwegian Training Takeover
1:01:10 What Would LR Ride?
1:06:19 Guess The Cycling Brand?
1:18:01 The Nero Show in 2024
1:30:15 Selling W/KG Data To Teams
1:36:15 INEOS vs Jayco
1:42:14 Athlete Podcasts

The Lantern Rouge is the most popular pro cycling podcast and YouTube show, breaking down team rosters, Grand Tour stages and monuments. A huge thanks to Patrick for joining us today.

@LanterneRougeCycling – https://www.youtube.com/@LanterneRougeCycling

Early LR Videos: https://youtu.be/AqwqlCJLAJY

Patrick Broe VLOGS: https://youtube.com/@Patrick_Broe?si=LQ16O3XJ9OXMAKiE

Grab a nero kit: https://nero-club.myshopify.com

SUBSCRIBE On Youtube: http://bit.ly/2gMWc1t

The Nero Show is available on your favourite Podcast platform

Spotify:

Amazon:
https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/28558e66-2a6b-4ff5-a6bf-709f05b1ffe9

Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nero-cycling-show-|-unfiltered-cycling-podcast/id1659229051
—————————————————————————–
INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
STRAVA: https://www.strava.com/athletes/186450
Check Out Jesse’s Coaching: https://www.nero.club/coaching

Welcome to a special episode of the nuro show featuring Patrick bro the lantern Rouge himself this is a super fun chat where we chat about Patrick’s own Vlogs in his fitness journey we have some fun at some cycling Brands expense but we’re going to start with a chat about what

Cycling broadcasting looks like in 2024 and how legal and sometimes illegal YouTube channels might feel the void all right let’s get into it so one way or another LR I think 2024 is going to be a big change in the way we all consume cycling or maybe it won’t be a big

Change I think that’s that’s maybe what we want to have a bit of a chat about but you put a tweet up during the week around how people are watching watching racing in 2024 maybe we can have a little bit of chat about where this where this is headed selfishly of course

When GCM plus shut down I thought o how’s this going to affect will PE will less people listen to the podcast or watch my highlight videos If less people have access to the race and also you know I definitely think they’ve been a big part of what I’ve seen in a boost in

Cycling interest in the last since the pandemic when it got launched and I was thinking because I’m here in Australia at the moment and I’m pretty sure Australia is the worst territory um what is going to replace gcn plus because yeah a lot of people in Europe see my Twitter they’re like

What’s the problem we just go back to um we just go back to euros sport player or Discovery player or or Sporter or whatever but the reality is in Canada the US and Australia the coverage is is bad I guess I really think there’s a there has to be I’ve I’m actually

Writing a paper on this I got to get it finished before I come back to Europe in a week and a half every other sport of a comparable size has a backup streaming platform owned by the major stakeholders so because no one wants to buy Channel 7

Do do not want to buy the ATP 500 events they want to buy the Australian Open someone wants to buy Wimbledon I the tour to France IE the domestic race that is exactly the same as cycling they got no interest in showing ATP 500 you know

Showing an event in to lose so the ATP has their own streaming platform that hardcore fans go and buy a subscription for and if they can make that work technologically financially how come the race organizer race organizers jro de Laino GP marays in N days how is there not a platform

And I guess it’d be the ucci that would need to to do it an equivalent platform the tweet that you put up had the that illegal I’m guessing it’s illegal stream on YouTube of each of the stages uh and you and they had the views there let me bring it

Up because even just looking at the VI that that’s getting fresh Channel literally he started from zero like a week ago and he’s actually will he’s he or she has Del actually deleted the private prior streams because I’m only seeing stage six on the channel live

Views so that one from today is on 12,000 views and that’s delayed that’s delayed it’s more than that so even that would be um should be monetizable yeah I mean the Iron Man um Triathlon do it when they have their when con’s on they have their their race is on YouTube and they

It’s I’m guessing it’s paid for by sponsors because there sponsors popping up the sponsors in the banners down in the lower third and up the side so that’s um that’s making money for the sponsors it’s not just making money through subscriptions uh for the end user but

For the for the people that are sponsoring your event it’s also eats itself that way and it’s not just that it’s it’s if you don’t make go to the effort to make sure the race is viewable in as many territories as possible I I think that’s like a breach of the

Whole goes into the actual economics of cycling the Covenant is the teams get no Revenue share but they’re going to SP pay ride a salary and come send a team to your race to get exposure and you’re going to have the good Riders at the race so you can sell that to your

Sponsors race organizer and if you don’t make sure that that race is viewable in as many territories as possible then okay yeah it’s you know it’s [ __ ] all Australians watching you know whatever x- race to to Hungary let’s say but but jco might be jco are doing that and

They’re sending a team there and they’ve actually sent a good team there in previous years and those 10,000 Australians or however many would watch that’s actually a lot of people watching so I think it goes into like and that’s why I actually sometimes commend the tour cuz they I think they

Sell those rights cheap because they sell it to free to Air broadcasters almost everywhere but that’s the deal is that imagine if the tools all pay the teams would be screwed so you when the reason that’s not happening you say it’s part partly because of the USR is it the individual

Organizers because I know a lot of the races in Asia are put up on YouTube I watch most of the Asia tour when they’re on on all kinds of Facebook YouTube most of the time so they seem to do it but is the the races that aren’t doing is that

Yeah UCI or is it on the organizers to do that uh it’s on the organizers yeah it’s on the organizers uh now there is an expectation in the UCR rules that a world tour level race has some sort of adequate coverage that’s not really defined like T the p is a world tour

Race and basically had very limited coverage outside of Poland because I think there was a dispute between the organizer and Eurosport 2 years ago didn’t change anything all the teams still have to go still have to send a team so it’s on the organizers uh they

Have like a a body a group just like there’s a Riders Union there’s a teams Union aigp and there’s also a uh race organizers Union their one option but I don’t I’m not sure how much they really do uh I think basically GCM plus shut down and they didn’t

Really understand what that meant uh for for their B rights in a few countries do you think like okay it’s all good and well for us sit sitting here and getting on our YouTube high horses and saying just slap it onto YouTube and we’ll all be happy and we’ll comeb by are because

Everyone can see can see racing but like this is cycling we’re talking about okay maybe maybe this is me being cynical but there’s a pretty obvious clear lack of direction to to want to get involved with with anything on YouTube from the sort of organizing stakeholders involved

For years now and so for us to kind of sit sit here and say look there’s an audience for this to happen um you know it’ be good it’s good for the it’s good for cycling etc etc I just I just think of those those boys in Switzerland and I

Just can’t see them ever getting around to this because it’s it’s so like even even you’re watching the coverage now it’s just so TV do you know I know that does that make sense like it’s it’s just it could be 1984 watching some of this telecast and

I’m not having to go at the commentators again like whatever we have the technology in place now already in the tour but it should be in other races where you should automatically be able to see in the back end if a ride is crashed so in the tour they have the

Dimension data supplied speed trackers if you’re looking at a group one and then all of a sudden 10 Riders speed goes to zero and stays at zero you can just read off that list of 10 Riders XY Z they all crashed immediately the technology exists in the tour already

And that’s people still trying to peer through you know shots so that stuff is like that’s already there but to your point I’ve kind of it’s sad and like shouldn’t be this way I’ve kind of given up a little bit like I’ve tried the last

Couple of years to go to minor race I’m not talking the Twitter France I’m talking minor race organizers uh where they don’t have uh don’t have agreements in certain territories I’m like listen I I’m asking to I’ll pay for it as well um I was like

Let me stream the race I know to get good views I can send you all the all the analytics uh I’ve even I’m still yet to have a race organizer let me upload a full file of a historical race paid for oh right and so that by the way I know I’m winging

But and they’ll have they’ll have basically a bad agreement with their reseller of their rights and then they’ll be like not possible and then I’ll just type in YouTube t of Flanders 2021 and there’s a 3-hour file uploaded and and I’m like well and so I’m you we’re not talking the same

Language here um you just can do what you want to do illegal stream I tweeted about you can kill that immediately by just in the right territories uploading your own stream um not in alter just for the ones where people can’t have access to the footage uh so a lot of people

Were in Latin America I think watching that uh stream and I’m not sure they had good options or in certain countries to watch that’s what I was saying is you’re never going to like it’s been proven The Internet’s been around for a long time you cannot defeat piracy by doing whacka

Trying to trying to content claim the only ways to provide access even paid to the people that want to watch I just want to ask you off the back of that Patrick about this valter botas thing and also talking about this yeah the not just him but

Also the the promotion of the gravel race that was on at the same time as the T to under in the commentary of the actual to under I didn’t there wasn’t a single today I watched the stage where valter botas and that rattle gravel event wasn’t mentioned and also at the only other

Time I saw the twood being talked about outside of the race stream was on the project which is in in Australia it’s a kind of a news uh 1our show current affairs kind of thing and it was mentioned on there valter Bas was on there with Tiff Tiffany Cromwell speaking about it

Speaking about the event so the only time really that I saw the two an under get mentioned was in relation to valter botas being there and just in terms of like the streams and the things like that is how big is cycling because the when the two of France is on there’s all

These articles that come out and I saw people tweeting back in July that oh it’s the biggest sporting event in the world or it’s the top five sporting events in the world now they didn’t actually outline how they calculated that with was it viewers was it money

Etc etc but there was articles sort of putting it out there is the biggest sporting event and I’m just watching this um race play out in this Sport and I’m going we are got to be much smaller than we think we are based on what I’m seeing

Here yeah there’s the the neelon ratings or the actual ratings are usually much lower than like sometimes you see ridiculous figures uh like touted I think with the bot has thing in Australia the reality is that he’s way bigger in Australia than any cyclist um in terms

Of people knowing an F1 driver versus yonus finger guard or t Pacha maybe that’s wrong but I think uh whereas in Western Europe I don’t know I don’t know if he’s much bigger than probably is yeah bigger yeah he is his Instagram is bigger than what any cyclist right

So um and so I guess your to your point why are they speaking about bodas all the time it’s like well because he can get on the project and at least talk about an event adjacent to the TDU whereas uh Simon Yates is not getting on

The project so that’s I guess why the race organizer knows it’s a it’s a it plays um but yeah I guess it’s good um I guess it is good for the race that he’s there overall like maybe it’s it could be a bit nauseating if you just

Want to watch the race but I think it is good for the race overall but is your your is your point Jesse Mo that like here is here’s a here’s an F1 driver uh whatever he’s into cycling all good but that’s the only way you can cut through

In the media because our sport is so small that we need someone from from from outside to who’s not even actually sort of doing the sport as such the race as such to to promote it to a level to to get it onto commercial TV is that sort of what

You’re saying yeah sort of along the lines of that or maybe I’m not I’m not necessarily pointing fingers at anyone I just find it internally quite sad that the most exciting thing seemingly happening around the T Dand is someone from another Sports here it’s like oh I

Just I find it really sad NL you anti- Swift footage in the NFL games Jesse um yeah Bas his da Taylor Swift um that I just thought we’re a sport that has the two of France and we’re all wetting ourselves of a Formula 1 driver it to me

It’s just it’s maybe my point is more that it is just a bit of a sad reality check as opposed to mean anger or anything I mean the promotion of that rattle gravel event at a road event that actually bugs me because there’s other Road based defense that were on for the

Tand that didn’t get a mention like the crits that I think it’s norw cycling C are running them aren’t they Chris yeah or pretty much the entire to which is if you can’t get entry to the to under in a national level Rider domestic Rider you

Go in you enter the Norwood crits and it’s really high level Fields it sells out and it didn’t get a mention once and yet the commentators are banging on about this rattle gravel every time I turn the stream on and it just it bugged me because they should be internally

Promoting the other Road events not a gravel event probably don’t own them yeah but do they own I don’t think they own rattle gravel either I mean maybe yeah we’ll see next year I’m guessing based on how much promoting it it’ll um it’ll be part of the two it un under uh

I’m guessing they’re going to be absorbed and it’ll all become one part I guess your point as well Jesse was that like if cycling is so big when the you know 10 billion people watch the Twitter France then um it should be it should be bigger right like the and I guess yeah

Those numbers are um you got to look at like the correct correct numbers from like sports Pro media uh generally good but the numbers are solid like they are solid but they’re solid in France Belgium Spain Denmark Netherlands uh are getting better in the in America and the UK well I went last

Year to TD you in person I got sick over Christmas so I couldn’t make it this year and I got to go back to Europe earlier but you you went Chris and was that with a brand self-funded like what was your motivation for for going good question Patrick uh so yeah self-funded um

Self-funded under with the with the idea of okay this is the the only World Tour race in Australia an opportunity to to go and capture content of some description and we we chatted about it before I went on went down there even on the show like what what am I what should

I be doing down there what what ultimately is is a value I kind of said this to you a little bit but I felt a lot like a fish out of water or a little bit of an outsider in that whole thing because you know for example you okay I

Got my media pass great whatever what did that allow me to do well it put me it was allowed me to go to the media center great so I can sit down and type on my laptop so so then what’s the next thing I can do well I can go to the I

Can go to the the race starts and the race finishes and sort of mingle around the riders in the sort of roped off area where the where the gear is and and I did that and you know got to sniff around the bikes which was which was pretty

Useful but once you’d sort of done that for a day and I’d looked at all the bikes and chattered to the odd mechanic then the kind of balls back in your court to to move around or if you wanted to try and do an you the the ball is

Very much in your own Court to do it what I’m there to do or or what what the the our audience want us to do is to to sit down and talk about what we’ve seen and to do that the logistics of that in a remote circumstance like that is very

Very difficult so um again Wi-Fi not great it seems like it’s still very much set up for a a journalist who is writing or producing content for a set media thing where they send that that content to a central location and it goes out VI whatever medium that might be so it was

A bit of a challenge I mean did did you have a similar situation with it with it last time or or how did you kind of find the experience I just don’t know what to do when I go to a race and it’s not it’s

Not unique to the TDU but yeah as you say you get your media pass you’re like C I got it but I just when I see the riders in the in the Vans or wherever on the team bus before before a race I maybe I’m introverted

Maybe it’s because I I’m not like a classically trained journalist I’m like I I shouldn’t bother them I should leave them alone you know they got a sports event in in in half an hour I should really let them just prepare I shouldn’t harass them and and

What you should do as a professional is you uh contact all the Press officers you tell them who you want you tell them what days you’d want them you organize all of that to get your sound bit uh and I think how you know and often traditional journalism is one way and

That’s not how I work or you work so when it’s one way ask question but you just hold your uh recorder in front of them and then the writer says their quote you take that put your headphones in you’re in the media room download it bang bang bang pump out your quotes and

That’s not how I that’s not really how I work um now Daniel free it actually also when you when you’re in it you realize how hard it is and tiring it must be for like someone like Daniel free to do what he does every day to go to the tour to

France every day he’s at the pre I mean it’s actually almost in easier in the tour because there’s the designated Zone where the riter comes up you’re standing on the fence you don’t have to move uh the riter gets fed to you if once you if you’ve organized them he does that 21

Days in a row stage start stage finish with the with the recorder um and then so what the other option is like vlogging and you also realize when you’re in person you’re like [ __ ] cycling Maven man it was hard what he did like the stuff he used to

Make is actually much harder and the fact you did that on a daily basis it’s actually a lot harder than you think in person for it not to just be slop uh as well so maybe also perfectionism is is an an impediment but yeah I really struggle with a harassing the Riders and

B knowing really what to do I think the easy thing I love the tech stuff so I think TD you if you just go okay I want to get I want to churn out 20 videos of the new world tour setups and gradually release them I think that’s a that’s a layup because

They’re all in the air conditioned Room Before the Race yeah personally that’s what I want as someone that didn’t go but was watching it following from the sidelines I can’t go I want to watch videos that take me there so that’s going to be either long

Form stuff I think like we did just chatting about a generally or Vlog Vlog stuff or text stuff but again you the stuff that you do Chris is really only the long form just having a chat about it and then gcn pretty much mop up all the

Rest yeah well see the the actual reality of that was so my media accreditation would not have allowed me to do the uh take the bike you know I think like Alex is going to be releasing these now over the next sort of couple of weeks where it’s him talking to a

Bike and here’s the new bits and pieces I wouldn’t have been allowed to do that so all I could have done is potentially filmed the stuff at the start line and kind of just ad hoc done the point camera at at the bike and gone okay here

Are the wheels here’s the here’s the tire width etc etc which potentially might have been just as valuable but again you kind of like you said LR it’s like it’s a really weird time because you know you’ve been there Jesse like it’s 40 minutes before a race the

Mechanics are getting the bikes ready do they want this Rando like filming their bikes talking about it as they’re putting air in the tires and the Riders are going off for a warmup or up to I I just I don’t know I’m not ballsy enough

To do that so I just creeped around in the background and sort of pretended not be there and like snap a little photo when I could when no one was watching yeah like the only way I’ve been able to do it in the past is when I just have a

Mate and I was like do you want to do a quick like Ben AR cona before catalunia said Bock last year at the TDU like where I know it’s no skin off their nose um to do a five minute chat so that’s the only

But you know you do a couple of them and you’re like well I don’t have that many mates um and More Than Zero but probably less than 10 so it’s you run our content pretty quickly so yeah I think it’s like what could they do to to entice you over Chris I

Guess if you had on your media pass like at a particular hour during the week before for the race all the new bikes like they told the teams if you want your bike to get covered put it in this room and they’re going to 20 them around

In a circle cuz all the media that’s here are going to are entitled to come and look at your bike play with it uh Etc I think that that’s a win-win for everybody I feel much more comfortable doing doing that because you don’t have to ask anybody uh and then they don’t

Have to be asked cuz they’re like you’ve got your hour slot to like look at our bike and setup don’t ask us out of that slot and the other thing is to is to reduce the logistics of of this so if if there was some sort of podcast Studio

Even like it didn’t have to be a professional setup but at least something that was able to be filmed and it made and you were able to walk away and do a couple of shows while you were down there without having to just pick up like I’m just self-funding you know

Excess baggage I don’t I can’t do that yeah but then what if five people want to do a podcast like it’s then it that’s the problem uh but yeah I think it does make me realize like it’s very different jobs uh sort of the new age coverage where you’re separate and not relying

Never have relied on access and then like traditional journalism is actually very different even like the nuts and bolts of getting the content um and I think once you’re accustomed to one way I think it is actually difficult to do the other uh like I just don’t have it

In me to go to Every start and finish of a race I just cannot physically do it there is actually there’s this up and cominging vlogger I’ve seen uh his name’s uh Patrick bro he’s he’s on the January Health kick can we talk about that December December I got him before

It’s not a New Year’s resolution can we chat about this I think they’re legitimately freaking good I’ve watched most of them they’re good and there’s like a hole in that just Vlog content from someone that’s not just a complete no offense like degrade random person like someone that

You kind of already respect then makes Vlogs I’m in I think they’re awesome talk us talk us through it what’s the plan here well first it just well I should probably go back to the story of my channel and like OG cycling YouTube which was like jurrian Ryder was like

One of the OG if not the OG cycling YouTuber right vlogging whether you like him or not that is a reality he spawned a lot of YouTubers particularly in Australia um and in the UK and America as well and so he did that sort of

Content and then a lot of people uh took elements of it and then probably boosted the production value significantly like Maven uh and and it was you know a bit cleaner and basically that was sort of what was YouTube back 14 15 16 17 from memory and

I basically just started doing that like I my biggest first video was riding up W longer Hill with Bora uh and had the GoPro on and I basically wanted to be a cycling vlogger like Francis Kate uh who probably started a little bit earlier than me and then not that many people were

Interested because I wasn’t that I wasn’t that good uh the TDU ended there’s no other Pros in Australia to film riding up a hill behind and I also started my job so I just basically had this channel that kickstarted and shelved it then I started doing 2019

Race videos I was just I was just bored they popped off but the actual original Channel had nothing to do with race analysis and I always and then the channel kind of got too big and I always wanted to do vlogs right but then the channel got too

Big that the majority of the subscri subscribers n the YouTube algorithm would not like that yeah well I’m not sure after a while you can if I did a weekly Vlog on the main Channel about and it had like you know going to the Twitter France root reveal I think that

Would be fun but um yeah it kind of got to the point where I was like the the people are not subscribed to this channel for me to start doing a vlog sort of to your point Chris and so I didn’t feel comfortable putting a slop iPhone Health kick Vlog on Channel with

250,000 subscribers I’m not going to I just didn’t feel com and I think that’s actually a problem with YouTube at the moment is that you it’s scary to then start experimenting again once you have a core concept that works cuz I know with a relative range of certainty

Like what views I’m going to get when I do all the race videos this year um whereas if I put that video on this channel half the comments could be what the [ __ ] is this I’m not subscrib to see you walking up a hill talking about Andrew

Hubman so that’s why and it was but it was mainly accountability that I started because I didn’t I didn’t post it anywhere I didn’t mention it anywhere I literally was doing it so I had accountability and a record of my health fitness journey so the thousand watt calorie

Deficit are we was the was the did I say thousand watt yeah yeah the Thousand calorie deficit how’s how’s this playing out dayto day so are you managing to to train on this what what are the moods like so that was just no that was just the first four weeks so I

Was 77 kilos and that was just the first four weeks and I hadn’t been doing much exercise and you can see all on stra obviously not plugging it but like you can see and so I was like if I just start exercising 10 hours a week across running and cycling even low intensity

And basically eat the same calories as I have already been doing albe it from better like I was trying macronutrients split making sure I had enough carbohydrate and protein rather than just eating junk food um I’m not going to be that hungry especially as if if I’m careful with carbohydrates before the relevant

Exercise and also when you’re doing uh famous Zone 2 training you don’t need as many carboh hydrates when you’re banging out V2 intervals so that was my theory and it was kind of correct I really wasn’t that hungry if I I still eating like 2,000 calories a day so I was

Aiming to burn a th000 active and be in a th000 just for 4 weeks to like Kickstart it you know to get that visible progress on the scales on in the mirror and then obviously like I I’m not I’m not continue to 1,000 calorie deficit a day for the next month have

You struggled with the Habit change of actually eating healthier meals and getting rid of the junk no it pretty easy that that’s easy yeah okay okay I think that’s what a lot of people struggle with is they know sort of what to e buy it I got 10 kilos of rice from

Asian supermarket $25 and then beans with it and hot sauce so just have it on hand that’s the trick is just don’t have junk food and always have a healthy meal rated so you’re not like oh [ __ ] I got to walk to the supermarket and then bang

It’s never been my problem is I’ve never had a problem I never would go I don’t I haven’t bought a supermarket at a at a at a grocery store almost ever it the problem is um if someone else is bought it in the house then it’s gone like I

Might be able to avoid it six times in a row but then but then the seventh time you’re going to you’re going to go for it or when we go out to um I just can eat so much my biggest problem is like I can eat an insane

Amount of food for some of my height like in one sitting I can go to a restaurant and just eat like 3,000 cows easy well not easy like I’m I’m stuffed after but uh so that’s also the problem so what I just want to go back into your

History I’m just curious about this sort of Health thing what year did you go from sort of cyclist to Fat lawyer when did that happen yeah that’s exactly what happened it’s exactly what happened so I was like I was like 59 kilos this is also the problem with vlogging when I started

Vlogging on the original on the L rge YouTube channel I was like 59 kilos you could like I was like hollowed out cheeks and then um started working as a lawyer which year was at and then 2017 February 2017 okay so I was like at my skinniest January 2017 during TDU and

Then febr start work as a lawyer stayed Prett active still um but but I probably went up to about 65 66 which is still like still a healthy person that’s good it’s a good weight totally good crit weight it just kind of kept sliding and then sliding and then I was probably

Like 69 70 maybe and then Co hit and then bang okay you’re in Australia you’re not allowed to go outside I’ve quit my job to start a pcast in the middle of the night every day from Bal M of got Darling Street takeaway all there I’m working [ __ ] hours I don’t

Have my bike I don’t want to ride my bike in Sydney either I’m from Brisbane and Gold Coast and we also had a lot of like family uh like things happening as well and so that just I just went to like 82 kilos bang hit that Co weight um

Okay and so like it is what it is MHM um but obviously I wasn’t like happy about that I was very self conscious about it uh but it happened to a lot of people I think I think that’s a common story a lot of people if you an office worker at

Least before you had to commute walk around the office and then suddenly you’re just at home working all day it takes a lot of wheelpower to work a desk job and then when you clock off be like I’m going to run you know go run 10K I’m

Sure some people do it but it makes it harder is this uh what why now then is that is that cuz Works steadier and you’re sort of like I got more time to train now I can get into routine so it’s is it more work related that the timings

Oh I think my like my personal life has stabilized a bit um so in a pretty good place to do that from yeah so that and then coming back to Australia was like the Kickstart so like change of environment yeah land embrace the jet lag so when I got

Off I was got off the plight first day woke up at 3:00 a.m. I got up I just got up cuz like on the go Coast everyone gets up at 3:00 a.m. in the go Coast anyway yeah pretty much like and so just got up started exercising cuz what would

Happen like last year I had all these Grand plans and I work up like a normal person at 8: a.m. you can’t ride for 2 hours at 8:00 a.m. here yeah like you can but you’ll get melanoma yeah it’s too um or hit by you or it takes like 3

Months until you’re ready till you actually feel half decent cuz it’s so hot so I just embra use that change of environment to immediately create this new this is how we’re going to work operate now and um but like the motivation for I think was

Firstly I want I want to make I do want to make uh interesting cycling content outside of videos uh highlight videos and outside of the podcast this year I think I’m because I want to watch that content so I presume other people do and I think I have a good advantage to to

Make that happen with where I live with the connections I have with I guess the time I have uh to you know say say seus like I go ride with not brain I I ride with a lot of pros and Andor but I can’t hang on his wheel when

He’s doing a temp even a Tempo interval like not even close and probably I can’t even get there anyway but like I want to make more of that sort of content which I’m already sort of kind of able to do anyway but I tell you what if you’re a

Bit overweight and you go ride with with cous it’s like you look at the footage you’re like Jesus I mean if you I should put put it out there anyway but you know what I mean like it’s yeah I’m not saying you have to get that skinny but I want to be

Like in a decent shape like yeah to to put that out there and also to be able to ride two three hours with him without being completely [ __ ] yeah or be like oh can we meet up oh I’ll be recovery day CU I don’t want to ride at 5 HS per

Kilo up every climb um but if you’re in shape you can do that they’re recovery recovery they still right up clim like 3 and half W per kilom man for like an hour yeah it’s not slow it’s a 2,000 M like it’s not slow you still like you can’t just do that

Off like unless you’re a freak Talent um and so yeah that was the motivation and also it’s also healthier like if you look at I did the Dexter scan it’s like clearly need to lose weight so like looking at the data so well this is just

The reality have to lose some weight so um I don’t know I hope I think like a lot of people probably feel that way but you just need I’m fortunate that I have the time to do it to make that snap change in the offseason so you going to

Keep making the the Vlogs I’m going to do a weekly it’s daily is too much so I think weekly is a good a good set amount to keep it going nice very glad what do you think Chris you think there’s a place for them I’m always jealous of

Anyone in a in a vlog environment that’s a thing that is um has big relevant climbs people around it that’s that was always the challenge here is to just try and make anything relevant to a global audience and yeah so immediately I’m jealous of not only the locations

That you’d be able to do that but the people that you would be able to do it because like you said it’s you know trying to make people interested and in your own cycling Journey yeah okay I mean Jesse might watch it for couple of

Weeks but is he is he going to be that invested in in Patrick’s dexus scan in 12 months time probably not but is he is he going to be invested in uh in sep C’s train last couple of training rides before he goes to defend the Welter hell yeah I

Mean that’s that’s a different ball game so yeah I mean that’s that to me is is the is the super interesting part and like I I was even I was even out I was on a ride actually down in Adelaide and that pogy video that um and I know it’s not a

Vlog I I get that that Matt Stevens one that has just gone absolutely mental and the this this this came up in conversation was actually a couple of this is what I do I Eaves drop when I’m on group rides I’m listening to like everyone’s conversation at the same

Time and these people were talking about it just behind me and I was totally eases dropping on the conversation and they were just saying like they couldn’t believe how like open and and funny and interesting the whole video was because B basic was just this guy at home taking

The the piss out of where he kept his tour to France winners Trophy and things like this so I don’t know I I I even think something like that again is is another route you could take it like and even I really struggle with that again

It’s what we said about at the team bus is like at the end of the day at the end of the day Andor is like where the riters live with their family and so like the last thing I wanted to do was like be this YouTuber that turns up and

Is like filming them when like because it’s like no one knows like they basically to oper operate there in complete like being left alone that at the races they harassed mercilessly in andur they’re left alone uh for the most part so that’s also like I didn’t want to be that

That guy either who sort of invades their their sort of their safe space but no that’s different obviously because pagat invited him to film in his home and you’re right that video I was like if there’s ever a proof of concept yeah that this has interest to people of

Course it’s Pacha Twitter France winner but um you know 50k is a lot of views 70k is a lot of views which is 10% of that video yep you’re going up to so it’s 5.5 watts per kilo for your own training that’s that’s the go give me

Your confidence into here we go Jesse yeah what is it happening 5.5 no not unless you that’s why I asked is it something to do with work cuz I thought oh if you’re going to cut your workload in half and have no my workload keeps four hours available ride time plus like an

Hour in the afternoon of kind of cesta time you know maybe squeezing in two to three hours amongst work and all that especially oh especially once the Juro hits and oh that’s going to be a whole different ball game for you when the grand Tours start like just so hang just

Quickly so five at 5.5 so what what’s the weight Target 60 Jesus okay right I’m not going I won’t be able to do the Watts okay if I’m 65 I’m not tal I can’t do the Watts at 65 and you need like Talent so what’s the what’s the so

You’re going to be doing is it like based on a 20 minute what’s what’s your benchmark no no no hour yeah no no algorithms no AI e FTP we’re doing a [ __ ] 1 hour that’s your FTP that’s it no so the new thing is not so

You’ve got your FTP then the new thing is oh critical power your time till exhaustion how no no how long can you hold it so now there’s people like well my FTP is 300 but my time to exhaustion is only 30 minutes like well yeah the

Definition of FTP is what can you do for an hour yeah so sorry I’m confused what lactate zone are we in at the moment yeah sorry I’m just you know I’ve I’ve moved on but so like where I’m starting from is I basically untrained at 72 kilos FTP of like 255

260 so what was your Peak when you were back from 2017 when you were training about 290 at 58 kilos and I was doing slop training okay 290 for an hour 30 minutes tte jeez Shimano power meter n probably 29 n 290 is probably that’s good you’re 58 kilos Chris

Like like someone that’s 75 kilos doing that doing that same if what pilo on the flat will completely destroy you like you still go to a crit at that we and you’re like you’re not killing it in a Grade not killing it in B- grade probably um no what’s what’s win what’s

Win everywhere here what um yeah I know you were training slot but what sort of volume were you doing roughly you remember I’d have to look 2016 when I I finished uni had 6 months like 10 12 hours a week maybe maybe 13 14 so you weren you weren’t crunching the case

Yeah I did 300 for 20 minutes 300 for 20 minutes so I know what that means yeah that’s means 280 right at 95% it won’t happen but I wanted to have like a you know a stretch goal what do you call a stretch goal Jesse um you would need a training camp that’s

Probably your problem is I need to be like can can I come and also be coached by by the staff while I’m there I reckon you would just start to Plateau if it was just sub 15 hour weeks back to back to back you you would need to fit a camp

In once you fit but you might struggle to do with work but yeah H I don’t know yeah we’ll see you know what I think it’s going to be the new FTP what’s your compound score in two years I think that’s what people are going to say what’s your compound

Score what is a compound score compound is your 5 minute absolute power multiplied by your 5 minute watts per kilo and so it’s a better representation of how fast you actually go over 5 minutes because a 80 kilo Rider with the same 5 minute watts per kilo as a 60

Kilo Rider is actually much more valuable and goes much faster on actually all terrain including like 10% if they have the same was pilo so um like UA and all the teams they look at compound score for for evaluating Riders because someone like Kenny Elis he just can’t have that high a

Compound score but you might have a 75 kilo Rider with a pretty like it Wass per kilo he like it’s okay but then he’s still doing he’s stilling 530 Watts though for 5 minutes and so when you think about how fast he actually goes on

Even a 3 four 5% climb it’s it’s quick so compound score I think would be the new what’s your FTP is there a uh I’ve never heard of that term before obviously the principles familiar but not um yeah not as as a calculation okay yeah I haven’t heard jiren ryer mention it so

It’s not relevant to me is that is that in in the saddle out of the saddle with his shirt on with your shirt off I I’m I need to that’s that’s where I’m at at the moment do you not think it is slightly hilarious how like this isn’t

On our run sheet but like that he was preaching like for 5 years all the high carve stuff and then like you got coaches of world nutritional coaches of World Tour teams who like admit they were like keto Bros during that whole time and like guys are guys are creeping and

Bonking and they’re like no I do 5 hours faster and now are these same coaches that World Tour teams are like yeah 120 grams per hour obviously of carbohydrate we so Jesse and I had this chat this morning right Juran Ryder versus hubman who’s who’s more in the ballpark and of

What I got to say it I’m leaning towards shirts off up Norton Summit because at least at least it’s simplified like at least the direction to go is pretty clear drink water eat sugar sleep ride your bike it’s it’s in the right direction all this other faf about

Plunging and facing the Sun and back flips whatever it might be it’s just so you’ve got to put so many ducks in a line to actually get out the door and be a fit human I just human’s not a fit human what’s his 5K the other thing what you

Re his 5K is and he doesn’t even squat no don’t even squat like these gurus they will go so far out their [ __ ] way not to do a 5K and not to do an Olympic lift like cuz they don’t know how to do it they don’t know how to do a clean

They don’t know how to squat properly I re I reckon a was pushing about 130 watts in his Zone 2 Instagram Story video he’s not that slapping about the place I think it’s yeah it’s purposely because if you have to churn out two pieces of content a week about health and fitness

Like you got to you got to talk about something and that’s why trainer WR like their podcast um unless there’s like new scient ific discoveries happening all the time it’s once you’ve kind of said what there is to say it must be difficult to think like what are we

Going to talk about this week uh that’s why I specifically focused on Pro cycling because there’s a new there’s a race every week with a new storyline I don’t I don’t have to think up any content do you I guess people do take a TR at least with with Jan Rider you

You’re kind of at least you’re going to be pointed in the right direction you’re missing all the detail but you’re probably like a quarter of the way and in the right direction whereas if you’re kind of piecing together bits from yeah from huberman or whatever other kind of sources you’re pulling in

Some like deep dived trainer Road thing you it’s it’s you’re going to be you might be you might have five% of the detail but you’re heading in the wrong direction and I think yeah I think uh I don’t unfortunately or possibly fortunately I don’t think Harley’s getting the views where he’s really

Moving the needle in a lay off the stems mate lay off the stems that’s the thing like um I said about hubman is that all all the discussions about Zone 2 Etc it’s like people just need to exercise a bit more and the reality is they were

Probably like me or are like me and they were too sedent and eating too much food and that’s the problem that was that’s the like that’s 95% right and then your red light therapy your acupuncture or your your other stuff your whatever I Oscar um that can be

Your 5% but really like the fundamental things are as you said sleep movement right the right food but I get I get my back up against the wall and not just the cold pledging stuff but even even the the polarized training thing the amount of like people I would speak to

Like oh what’s your you know what’s your training velocity you know you do do you know do you recommend polarized it’s the first question do you I’m like there’s there’s like a hundred other training principles which you would need to tick off and make sure you’re getting right so that you’re

Responding well to training training py quality before you’re then going into what I would say is relatively specific Niche area of what’s just exact training intensity distribution like you you’re quite far down the line but it’s because it’s I guess it’s an interesting conversation no that topic has just been

Moved so far up that’s it’s it’s almost a meme at this stage um and I feel actually the same way about the whole lactate discussion and then something which is in my opinion down far down the line is like do you do polarized training and you measure your lactate

It’s like the two biggest things and I’m just maybe i’ I’ve just haven’t been following along I’m like what are you what like I don’t even know how to answer that like what what’s the question here it’s just weird how these things just yeah like like lactate measurements are like important for pros

Obviously but the setting zones I guess but I think in running they’re really important and easier to do because basically they’re running laps around the track and they get lactate Pricks like every lap um or every time they finish an interval so I think it’s more

Difficult to do in cycl like I yeah I don’t think any riter that has great power numbers but their lactate levels are not great at those power numbers is not getting signed I think you still sign the riter well even from like a training prescription point of view yeah

There’s a lot of other things that I’d be looking at before I’m then going oh I really need to see your lactate profile I really need you measuring lactate within your training because I’m out of ways to improve the training process for a rider yeah and that’s that’s what I always

Come back to I’m like well he will it be useful when we have continuous lact tape monitors through an Apple Watch would I be looking at that data yeah for sure but like what what would you change that you wouldn’t already like I can tell you an example today I did four threshold

Intervals and then it was like 40° perceived temperature and then I was supposed to ride home and do zone two for 30 minutes home and my heart rate was supposed to be X and I was I knew if I ride this power my lactate level is is

Going to be so far above 2 mmol it will W be funny I know cuz and I was looking at my heart rate I was [ __ ] and it’s so hot so like I already know that so what and so I just went a bit slower um

Or you can just maint match the power cuz you want to do the power it doesn’t matter but like what would the lactate change in that situation I guess knowing for sure I’m over 2 mol what I think your your uh your heart rate and your effort level in that part

Of the session uh was obviously High because of the heat I don’t necessarily if your lactate would have even reflected that what you were feeling oh I’m on fites okay I’m telling you how far into the ride did you say you were oh you done your I just I was riding

Home okay potentially yeah but even other things like um if you’re making sure your nutrition’s right if you’re going out for a a V2 Max day and you’re measuring your lactate would that be able to help you make sure that you’re if if the session I use it so similar to

Heart rate like if something’s gone wrong in a session and you’re kind of going what what’s happened here lactate would really help with that because lactate is linked closely to nutrition so you’d be able to it would be a an investigative point of what was your heart rate and then well

Right now you’ve kind of got effort level heart rate then you can kind of get oxygen saturation in the blood if you have one of those sensors and then lactate well lactate would be useful as a way helping figure out what’s what’s going on there

So I think you you use it in in that sort of way did The Continuous GL Co monitors can they stop you bonking stop you bonking like yeah like can people can are they useful enough that they you can use that information in the ride to stop yourself bonking potentially

Because if if you had if you tracked your if you had a um a metabolic test in the lab and you had your lactate levels tracked with your substrate usage potentially you could use that as a way to calculate it so far down the line though

You could you to yeah to calculate how much carbohydrate you’ve burnt and then through a and then estimate what your storage would have been during but that it doesn’t it never really works because by the time you get so far down the line I don’t think it would you’d have any

Data that’s useful similar with glucose monitors that’s similar thing there’s so many variables by the time you actually trying to pull an Insight from it you’re going oh it ends up being a lot of guess work anyway um yeah but I still think it would be if if I had riders that could

Continuously monitor it I’m 100% convinced it would be it would add value from an accuracy standpoint is that is that really what you’re able to to glean from it it’s not even well it’s not even possible I don’t a lot of them are not that accurate the the lactate monitors

I’ve seen like they’re like oh it’s coming to Market it’s like 10% off and like you look at if you’re trying to train at Inigo San Milan fat Max that’s at like 0.2 Mill below your Tipping Point end of zone two his zone two so

Like that 10% is right there um so maybe some of them more accurate I think some are supposed to be released this year there’s one from uh the company that supplies the hardware to Super sapiens CU super sapiens don’t make those GL CGM devices they have software company

As as I understand it Abbott big big company is doing clms uh as well but that’s I mean is it potentially a really useful tool post training or even yeah from an intensity point of view to to guide a to guide a little bit yeah definitely is measuring lactate a method of training

No like what do you mean like it’s kind of put out as in like I it’s not a meth it’s not a method it’s the Norwegian methods measuring lactate I’m like well that’s not how they’re scheduling their training like what what do you like they’re still going and doing weeks of

Training it’s and as and as a non- coach cycling YouTube Watcher that’s what I thought it was like legitimately if you I I thought oh my God this is this is a different I’m going to be cycling backwards or something like that was how that was how dramatic the shift to my

Writing was going to be when I started the Norwegian protocols but yeah ultimately and talking to to Dan about it as well it’s just like oh it’s just a different way to measure okay I’m still going to do threshold sessions I’m still going to do Zone 2 sessions I’m still

Going to make sure I’m not overtraining I’m still going to monitor my nutrition still going to get blood tests and measure to my blood values still going to follow I’m still likely going to follow a TSS model to some degree of my weeks and my months so so you’re doing

All that even before you’re then measuring lactate um so yeah it’s a part of that but it’s not yeah it’s still based on like there’s a blue paper or white paper on the Norwegian method from mariio bin who like worked well he had like he had beef with iner Brit’s father because iner

Brit’s father was like no I did it all myself and this guy’s got receipts it’s quite interesting um uh that he’s got receipts like telling in Brit’s father about that it’s like yeah like they use lactate measurements to stay below 4 M and he tries to stay between 2.3 and 3 m

When he’s doing his Str threshold sessions and if you realized you could do a lot more of them at that sub threshold sort of Zone maybe it’d be sweet spot I Hazard a guess in cycling is what we would call that um which is not a New Concept Sweet Spot training

And also his point over like 5,000 tests was he his lactate varied a lot throughout the year throughout the season it made it just made him understand his body a lot more uh and also like some kenyons they enter anerobic threshold like 2 mol so it varies a lot between

Individuals so even 2 mmol is not like a golden standard for you know tipping over Fab Max or whatever for people trained people it could be different but yeah I’d encourage people that’s are interested to read about the Norwegian model of lactate testing during training and if you’re actually interested in

What they do listen Rich R did good podcasts with the coach and with stuff in Christian so interested in they taking lactate out of it what how do they actually train and recover and what are they actually doing yeah their podcasts are really good because they

Just explain it and it’s basic I mean obviously they’re using the tech to have some insight but the majority of what they’re doing is foundational endurance training uh and not making all the mistakes that you know that are that are possible to make do you think double threshold

Days could work in cycling or would ever become popular have you already discussed this maybe I did a video morning morning two hours threshold efforts afternoon threshold efforts you would be yeah I was going to say you’d have to the level that you need to be at where even a one threshold

Session a day is not going to give you enough stimulus to be pretty far down the line um but well it depends what you’re training for as well I mean I most if you’re training for a road event the whole point of doing it especially as you get in season doing it already

Fatigued you’re you’re doing that on purpose that wouldn’t be something you’re You’ be actively trying to avoid splitting your threshold work because you’re trying to do it all in one session um right but yeah I mean potentially if you’re training if you’re training for a time trial and you’re at

A fitness level where the threshold sessions is so fatiguing and your energy turnover is so high that you get you accumulate let’s say 90 minutes of Zone 4 in a sing single session and that’s still not stimulating enough to get the aerobic progression you want yeah potentially you would split that up over

Morning and after but you’d have to be a pretty big engine to be getting to that level especially because it’s cycling we don’t have the injury risk so exactly yeah there’d be guys there I mean philipo Gana you know a guy like that 2 for the hour record is he able to get

All the work he needs done each week doing one right a week yeah you know I could start to see yeah I could I could see a reason why it would work or be would be needed there but like someone like why would I do that why would I do

That now like um I just need to ride my bike a little bit more and that probably goes for a lot or if you’re recovery was if your recovery was so bad that you you yeah you were doing you were accumulating let’s say 40 uh 30 minutes

In zone 4 and you were kind of getting really fatigued either you’re just inexperienced enough where that’s going to be enough training stimulus anyway or you need to look at your fueling and your recovery like that that would be indicating an issue if that was the case

Anyway do you want to have a bit of uh bit of brand chat bit of bit of cycling equipment brand chat yeah yeah go is Patrick is you a you don’t come off as like a brand guy although you have an RM I’m I’m a secret what do you

Mean by brand guy you mean like am I obsessed with Bike Tech and stuff yeah what’s Theo what do you on the frost game uh no I’m I’m like I’m a bit like you I’m like a pathetic Rim break Rim break you know like um which is

Ridiculous like they don’t work as well like that bike I have out there I can’t stop in the wet I straight up can’t stop I’m writing carbon clinches which I was like how the [ __ ] were these allowed to be sold literally in the wet I cannot stop yeah and but

I’m like n Rim breaks are the best and then obviously like uh but it’s I’m kind of like I’ve built my own bikes from scratch like getting every single constituent part secondhand from Marketplace and I constructed a bottom bracket bearing press from Bunnings for a dollar instead of buying

The tool for the Press food bottom bracket so yeah like I I follow it but I would never I would never spend an extra 7K aftermarket to get like tune hubs and extra light okay but what about what about when you when you start getting

Sort of around the 5 watts per kilo and like the the Patrick bro Vlogs are taking off right you’re full you’re full on bike influencer the brands are reaching out they’re like all right we we the specialized track giant they’re all hitting you up okay what’s what’s

The what’s the one email from what from what bike are you seeing at the moment that you would go you know what yeah send me one of those is there anything okay TCR it’s my old it’s my Old Faithful like I know that I know that

The I know the TX better right like as an all around bike like in the data um I just I’m used to a TCR the only thing is the integrated SE is a pain to travel with um see what I mean Jesse the TCR like it is it’s a real thing it’s a

They’re it’s it’s like a Ford or Holden driver or something they just don’t take the TCR off me like we were having this chat about why a giant even bothering releasing a TCR now because what do you mean yeah well that’s you’ve got to you’ve got to defy and you’ve got to

Propel it’s like why bother with this this but it’s because the TC I don’t what does TCR stand for the Cy is it or something like that yeah that’s what I like on back on the original once yeah wide tires you you on are you on board with

Wide tires then we get a nice little fat set of uh I don’t know if kadex run wide tires but I think I reckon that’s the biggest difference you would see if you went if you went to the dark side would be the nice 28s at 55

PSI I mean no I was on that long time ago I was riding clinch’s 45 PSI 50 five five six years ago well and you’re Li oh cuz yeah problem yeah yeah probably was a bit L but I always I test I pushed it I pushed see how low can I

Go how low can I go with the the things cuz like yeah now they the teams all teams are all running like 4.2 bar don’t know what that is in PSI um to be honest I wouldn’t really care I actually don’t think there’s much difference between

Any of the bikes a lot of the bikes like between like the best ones like the Scott the four was obviously good tac’s good propel’s good um like that your special Isa uh Chris don’t know about that one uh but definitely like the big difference I think is in the tires and

Wheels around the teams like you mentioned on the last pod CID this right with Cora Karma didn’t make a they don’t make tubless uh compatible wheel set at least they didn’t last how could you not use yeah so you’re literally your writers are like giving up I don’t know

How many watts at the start line you know your Riders are like giving up what 10 15 watts I don’t know how many it is madness that’s why St started using St started using head Wheels midseason because they also had Cora I I couldn’t believe what I was because again like

Maybe it was just that they were sitting right next to the Envy Wheels on the UAE bikes but it looked it looked stupid and and I I I legitimately felt felt sorry for the Riders cuz it’s it is you are like the RO anyway we’ve we’ve gone over

This I just sudal is still using um uh tubes in their specialized setup they still haven’t gone tubless they haven’t gone tubeless but they’re still running the wider Ral Wheels yeah as opposed to I still find that weird why wouldn’t you just run them tubeless you get less

Flats it seems like a no brainer all right boys now while I’ve got you I got you thinking a little bit of equipment I want to do a little uh little test for you all right right so what I’ve done is I’ve gone and grabbed the the marketing phrase for a

Number of cycling Brands and products I should say that this is a mix of of Brands and a specific product of a brand I’ll let you know when when we do those all right but n services like training Peaks it’s like a a physical product correct correct all right so I want to

Start you off off with this one now you can buzz in or you can just just go for it oh wait are we guessing what they are or are we going like you’re guessing guessing guessing the company I want you to guess it all right beat yesterday oh

Beat yesterday cuz that one I that one I thought it was going to be like trainer Road or something that’s not you you’re on a you’re on the right route so it is a it’s a it’s a it’s a training on bike solution is it waho very very

Close Garmin Garmin correct well done I’m actually very impressed with that all right second one second one I think’s easy but I I needed to give you a give you one to go for the world’s finest cycling clothing assos incorrect who would say that close oh I actually

Don’t know like geod Diner or something raer really oh that doesn’t fit there no that must be a legacy one from a couple that’s their main that’s their like main uh head of so that’s not that’s not like going the um into CU each product almost has its own tagline but that’s their

Like Rafer the world’s clothing cuz it can’t be like Celli cuz castelli is like quality affordable quality not the best yeah okay all right so I’m going to give you a clue for this one this is a apparel brand be your Alter Ego ah no this one I’ll

Sit this one out paroral Studios close attacker I kind of like it’s they’ve played the alt card yeah I I I thought that was good branding that one all right now this one obviously is a pretty generic phrase but um it’s a specific bike model ultimate speed oh canyonero

Incorrect oh so I was going to guess uh can as well but they wouldn’t put ultimate in that I will I will I will say that that SP model registers in this so that will be somewhere on this list so ultimate speed SC foil the giant Propel

Ah I I see it’s very giant isn’t it just very fast very fast bike very fast with fast bike now I thought this one was interesting refuse to compromise this is a bike brand not a I’m not talking about a specific model just a bike brand refuse to compromise it’s a bit

Insecure yeah know it’s like makes makes me think that you’re saying they’re handcrafted in a country and they’re actually Taiwan mold that’s a great read [ __ ] cerella incorrect Jesse come on you got this oh you’ve seen this on a Facebook ad I swear is it Factor Yes the Facebook ad gots me there there they’ve got a good ads campaign running very good yeah all right now this is a bike model I reckon you’ll get this this is a bike model Tre madone oh [ __ ] sorry [ __ ] dragma oh don’t get me to do Who Wants

To Be A Millionaire um no we got to guess the slogan it’s like Jeopardy yeah oh that was fast forward that was fast forward correct yeah damn oh that would have been a good one all right don’t stuff this one up Chris all right this is a brand cycling brand the ride

Ahead it’s not a frame manufacturer a physical cycling product it is a physical cycling product ham that we have my guess was Hammerhead it’s not that no is it like um what that really Luxe brand of lights that they clip on exposure you were thinking way too

Literally about it yeah I think I’ll give you both I’m going to give you both another guess uh we’ve talked heavily about this sub this this particular accessory on the bike and how important it is pelli oh close Victoria yes good good yes all right two more two

More faster everywhere it’s a bike model faster everywhere oh it’s oh come on come on come on a faster everywhere that’s the is it the SLA no that’s I actually was going to put that in but it’s the it’s it’s still uh the one bike to rule them all I think

Is L is actually their tagline for that I think I think that’s a good one to be honest I think that’s really uh The BMC or like The BMC one oh no they The BMC Market are climbing in an arrow I’ve heard this one before I heard

It I would have read it we talk about this spike a lot Jesse oh it’s S5 no it’s the Cannondale Super Six okay I’m going to do two more okay developed for World Tour wins o very German bike model bike model bike model bike model Dash developed for World Tour

Wins they are going high hard on World Tour wins it’s not SEO so I mean is it kago then but that doesn’t seem like very Italian Heritage branding no who wins world races have the biggest name cyclist is is that one the canyon a road correct Canyon a road CFR all right last

One the quiver killer oh I’ve heard this one too the quiver killer it’s it’s a bike model it’s a bike model is that like does that mean like one bike through all them all sort of like the quiver killer is this a is this a pop is this like a not super well-known

Brand no it’s a very well-known brand and I’m actually I didn’t have this down I just know this because I just saw this pop up I think they they almost got out in front of everyone else with this cple this is a few years old I don’t even know what bikes people ride

Onest it may have just won the a recent World Tour race oh factor factor ostram the quiver killer oh so I was going kind of I was going all road or endurance okay no way off is aam a climbing break like or is it supposed to be Arrow I was

Watching the gcn uh to Pro to a tech thing and they reckon that new uh factors 10 watts faster I’ve done well to save 10 watts there Jesus I mean that’s the thing like if these bikes are all getting so much faster like 10 was adding up over season

Then Riders who are on them should be winning easily they go they’re all riding at like 40 kph plus all the time I mean it actually does make a big difference in the TT bikes like the haves and haves Nots but um as I said before I really

Think like I think the foil must be pretty good um but then so was like five other six hour but that’s I mean that’s 10 watts over the previous generation of the of the Ostro which was pretty it that was pretty everyone rides it everyone rides

It tell you what my my bike my bike from from uni that I got here that I beat up and the handle bar it really holds it speed just the old zip the old zip hubs they really when you once you ring them up ring them and they ringing they

Really they once you’ve got them once you’ve got them back to the shop for the recall replacement they’re all good they’re brilliant it is unbelievable this bike sits next to the ocean with a door open on it for the last 2 years and I haven’t changed the

Cables I haven’t done any service on it I literally come back after a year put chain lube on I don’t even clean it and it shifts perfectly I no issues literally like under pressure go go big small ring it’s I’m like how could I justify paying

Three grand for Di for J’s di2 I could justify it but that’s pretty freaking impressive for those that have lived at the beach maybe those aren aren in Australia that Salt Water Breeze off the sea is brutal it just rips through stuff that’s crazy actually that’s what like

Yeah I think the Shimano 105 like 11 speed is one of the greatest group sets ever created like its price when it was originally released is unbelievable maybe not now but when it was originally released the price was unbelievable um and how good just how good it was for that price but that’s

Why you can’t the the brands are stuffed because until they develop their own group sets they’re never going to be able to price a bike that potentially me or you thinks a decent price because the the the group at even OEM are so expensive I mean the

Best one right now is Shram rival but it’s you’re still not getting a build uh for struggling to get under 5K Aussie for a build isn’t that the whole push back from the the bike industry is that yeah it’s all good and well to to winge

About the bike prices and compare us to the to the motor industry the automotive industry but by the bike industry doesn’t own the production process from start to end it’s it’s this higgledy piggledy bits of pieces coming in from all different stakeholders to eventually get to the to the to the customer so

Like you said it’s not until that production process is streamlined all the way through that we’re ever going to see something that’s relatively affordable I don’t know maybe that’s just a a cop out answer but that’s kind of what I continue to get told Shram have gained market share

Right they must have I haven’t seen a stat on it but since I started writing Shram in austral and in the world tour has gained I mean they just won all three grand Tours they just like they must be gaining significant market share you would think that competition between

Them and Shimano would decrease prices um yeah you think you got any questions for us or are we yeah I do have one question what are your guys plans this year you what’s what’s the plan you’re going to um it with the show just keeping on keeping on that’s also

What I’m kind of doing mostly if if something’s working don’t change but yeah what’s the plans with the show this year keeping on keeping on is is certainly the most power Mount thing and as you know that’s that’s kind of a challenge week in week out um definitely

I I mentioned this towards the back in a last last year and I do stand by this even though even though Adelaide was valuable and kind of challenging and probably ultimately a bit of a waste of time I still want to do the The Bike Expo industry stuff because even if maybe the

Content isn’t that valuable from it purely on the channel I still I still think like something we don’t do something we’re still short on is having some some physical connections with people who are in the industry to to be able to back and forth from with some of

The the topics that we talk about and things like that and as you know LR like the bike industry is still a who who you know industry are he’s mates with him he’s mates with him we’re just we’re still so on the outside of that that I

Think to to kind of take our just the pure content to the next level I think we probably need to start getting into that a bit a bit more and you know so I don’t know putting putting aside all and I’ve winged about this in the past I

Don’t really want to go into it again about like the brand stuff with being involved with the show I just still think we can we can make better content and to make better content I probably have to be a little bit more extroverted and get out and have those conversations

Maybe and it’s got to be in person too I’ve since realized like you really I mean this is like not a a business Consulting course but yeah like going to se order showing your face maybe making some interesting content in person and the problem is like we’re all Australian

It’s so [ __ ] far and expensive to go um I wanted to go to eurobike they put it on during the Twitter France every year and then they email me this is the it’s the first week of the tour eurobike I think GP llama Shane like here’s some of his biggest

Piece of content I think is filmed at eurobike you know the huge cassette video the the crazy chain that has like millions of views I think that was at eurobike because they bring out wacky stuff there so but that’s it’s it’s expensive and you you got to get the

Spreadsheet out and you’re thinking how am I going to make this work um especially when and sorry for bad news Chris but not a single bike brand has ever contacted me to sponsor lrcp it’s like but I think that’s the thing like you got to be you got to be

Putting yourself out there uh but that’s it’s difficult from Australia what we do is a show every week that people find really entertaining and somewhat interesting uh somewhat informative and so one of the things is also figuring out well yeah you could go to we could

Go to Shanghai bike show and film videos there but you kind of there’s so many other options or you go to or maybe we should go to more racing or you kind of then just there’s so many different Avenues you can go down but the end of the day what

Are people what is the Neo show what’s a show every week that people watch and they want so I’m more interested this year of just doubling down on making the show funnier just more just better in every way um and like to be honest if if if I

Don’t go to anything this year and all we do is have 52 really good Nero shows that I enjoy Rel listening to I’d be happy I’ve real like I need to do some just a few things throughout the year just to break it up a little bit just to

Keep pushing doing something different you know challenging myself and Benji and Co a little bit to just otherwise it’s not going to become core content but otherwise I go crazy you know and and but you guys you know 52 is a good amount like we’re doing like 180 pods a

Year I’m making over 100 videos a year um it’s it’s good to do something a little bit different but yeah it’s I think I don’t know I’m trying to think what would be like would people watch a bobin head TT video between you two people would we’ve done some of

Those videos the problem is Patrick the problem is like we don’t have time like especially now like I’ve got a son now who I I want to be a good parent to and not be off making videos every week and I’ve got a full-time job and the show isn’t really a business it

Doesn’t it’s not a job so yeah I could we could spend hips of time if some brand pumped cash into it and make it amazing and do all types of things but for now that’s just not none of that is realistic because it’s not a bit it’s

Not a bit profitable it’s not yeah I mean it’s profitable but you know what I mean like it’s not an income Source where we’re going off going yeah let’s do do this and let’s try that it’s like it’s not reality yeah like let’s book in airb and be in bright for and spend

Three days there and spend maybe a grand you know between the two of us and uh and then once you’re talking about getting videograph is involved like that’s what I’m trying to do uh Flanders and Ru Recon to release those videos before the those races this year and

Like because it’s going to go on the L Rouge YouTube channel and know like there’s going to be like a baseline level of AD Revenue at least on it so I can I’ll shoot To Break Even which is like long term no one does anything no one works to break even that doesn’t

Make sense but I can initially shoot the break even um CU it’s something different but yeah like videographers are not cheap uh especially if they have to bring like two people you got hire a car you got I got fly me and got to fly

Benji got fly Luke in or train them in like it’s quickly adds up to do like a and it’ll be video and I can’t wait to do it I’m really excited about it so why I want to do it but um and the time investment’s huge like planning and and

It’s a week out before Sano mate we can’t we can’t get I again too much into it but like we we can’t get a brand you guys are not that edgy no offense like it’s not that the content’s not that Edy no and it’s I see you guys you guys are

Pretty brand safe it’s like and you have this conversation and it’s like oh we’re just not sure we’re just we we’re just not sure because we we you guys yeah we haven’t seen you do any sponsorship and promotion on the yet so we’re just a bit

Tentative so how about like $200 a month and and you can maybe just like a mention our product every now and again I’m like what what what are we doing here I think unfortunately like that’s kind of what I did with lle is like when we were getting it off the ground they

Showed a lot of faith in the podcast actually uh without their support probably wouldn’t have been what it is today but yeah like there wasn’t people knocking my door down to to sponsor the first season or second season of it um and so they got a great deal we got we

Were very happy uh well like it was it was fine it like allowed us to do it but yeah like 200 bucks a month Ain like come on that’s that’s that’s bar the hosting costs of the like but it’s not complaining like it’s fine it doesn’t

Okay we’ll keep doing the show but it’s like yeah we’re not going off and doing like if a brand was like you can’t then be like let’s spend Grand if a brand was like his he his 10 grand can you go and make a video and and yeah we’d go down

To Jinder Bine and we could film something and that’ be yeah happy to do that but like that’s not happening so like I would I mean I’m not really putting much of my time into even planning stuff like that because it’s just a waste of time it’s literally a

Waste of time I may be I mean yeah it’d be nice but and yet you know that that same brand will spend 105,000 on a page advert somewhere and have no engagement with that content at all spor World Tour team yeah yeah what a waste of money yeah

Exactly so yeah you know what you got to do is create your own product is the reality like um you know or merchandise you got you know you got the kits but there’s also you know I was I’m thinking I’m trying to create a product this year I’m in my entreprene

Mode so I was think cuz I got really bored offseason I know this is going to go for a long time so what I did was I downloaded an AI neural network software that they developed to analyze mice in Laboratories by like tracking their biometric movements and I was like

Surely if you train this on a rider in a TT position in the Wind Tunnel or on the track and then it spits out graphs and like the relative relationship between the various points of his head crown and his his wrist if you then put that over his race TT

Footage you could figure out whether a riter’s actually doing their wind tunnel position in the race cuz I don’t think you can figure that out right now so completely all right okay yeah cuz how do you know if a rider even was arrow in the race you look at them you’re like ah

He looks good oh you’re too upright like I mean maybe Bam’s got some software inhouse and inos I’m not sure they’re running the little machine you can have on the the front of the bike but you could have ai software in theory that could tell you that actually the

Relationship between your the ratio between your wrist and and head crown was way different to what we had you in in there actually can I ask you about that so what makes that AI verse just a video tracking Sports software that already exists like what is it that’s intelligent it’s like

Training the neural the the network to actually I don’t even know myself to be honest it like it’s training and learning itself from the footage rather based on what you’re feeding into it it gets smarter each like iteration you do each additional piece of footage you fit

Into it with tags it will get smarter okay um and more accurate like the loss will decrease that’s as I understand it again I’m not a computer scientist but just get bored um but yeah there’s I’d love to see there’s loads of different technology stuff and um anyway that was

A complete tangent I just had to get that off my chest because maybe there’s a computer scientist that listens to this and I B up my computer doing it I find interesting too cuz I’ve seen that different some training software as well do it where they say it’s Ai and I’m

Kind of like it’s this sounds awfully like a very complex equation it’s an algorithm yeah it’s an algorithm yeah a lot of people want to say linear regression is AI not not AI um but yeah AI is like a new buzzword so maybe you know you see lots of teams saying oh we

Use Ai and then you like you look at their race tactics and you’re like I don’t need AI I mean you could just be like talk to the writers and say don’t don’t pull on the flat when the competitor’s in your wheel who’s ahe

You on GC but um I’m not I’m not so do you have any more ideas that you’re going to just start plugging into this thing of stuff it could learn on I have a list okay don’t uh don’t don’t reveal your big your big Ideas secrets so anything

You can say uh I think I can do a lot with like was pilo Data matching it to parkour um to to figure out like what maybe it’s not AI again this could just be like not AI I don’t know it doesn’t have to be AI but to be like

Okay we got in of Welter this climb here’s the was pulara Data these Riders from the database here’s comparable climbs before and what happened and this software should be able to spit out like all right they’re going to do it between 5 minutes and 5:30 that’s going to be

Between 7 and 7 and 1/2 wats per kilo this Rider is the best on this short efforts with like that’s not that hard to do surely um and you can’t manually figure that out yourself but the software should be able to spit can just spit that out and

Make that much faster I wanted to mention this when we were talking about the broadcasting stuff but don’t you find like I listen to a lot of like NBA podcasts and just general Sports Chat stuff and so much of their their discussion points might be around statistics so you know offensive

Efficiency or um uh you know threo percentage etc etc and like defensive uh rankings and this sort of numbers and it’s interesting then you go and listen to the site even even you guys to to an extent but obviously you’re trying to gleam a bit more data

We’re kind of missing the one statistic that everyone cares about when it comes to cycling and it it doesn’t get talked about the only time we get to talk about it is it it becomes almost hearsay so I’m obviously talking about power right but then the first thing that happens

When you sit down at the cafe you’re on a ride with people and you start talking about the race that you just watched the first thing everyone talks about is oh I heard plappy did 490 up up that for four minutes and it’s just everyone just talks that talk and there’s this

Complete separation between the chat that everyone has in the bunch or at the cafe about a race and the actual chat that’s happening during the race because we don’t get to see that and I’m not talking about live data I think that’s that’s not realistic I don’t actually

Care that much but I think they could fill so much time on coverage with chat about like breaking down how Wanga Hill went from a prow profile perspective be like oh look this is where um uh God who was it um who was riding the front for the

First part mental blank Harper this is where Harper was riding like 540 for the first 2 minutes and blew himself up and came back and he stopped pedaling but you can see that’s why Yates didn’t without those numbers we’re just kind of in the world of oh he was going too hard

There wasn’t he oh now he laid off you know and I I don’t know I just feel like that would be a big that would bring the the cafe Chatters a bit more into into the the coverage yeah I agree I think uh power data could be it’s really

Interesting to people like when we drop like the lantern Rouge website is not like a it’s not cycling news like we don’t put daily stuff up there it’s more like a Blog for when we have a a thing that can only be better communicated in written form which is what pilo analysis

Articles those T some of the Twitter Fran ones they have like 80,000 page views oh M and anytime you post something there it tends to be a topic on our show like that’s what our that’s what our audience wanted that’s what our audience want to hear about when it comes to procycling like

Carlos does a great job with the Articles they like I think he writes in a very digestible way to help people understand and so people really like them um and I’m like well surely they could talk about like like people like comms next year for the tour will not talk

About the difference between yonas and pagat in some sort of numerical objective data sense they’ll just be like this stage is kind of good for him that stage is kind of good for him they won’t be like on C grol and like the numbers I think I

Think we’ put I mean they just don’t have the data like as well so I mean I’ve offered to license the data to race organizers so so when a climb comes up you know they show the profile when the r start the climb you could also then

Have a Graphic that shows like the rec the climbing records like the best three and the wats per kilo for those as the climb starts and and even just even in review like there’s so much dead time in in procycling coverage where they could go back and talk about what took place

The day before and have it go beyond he was feeling good that will longer stage do you think Chris Harper could have won if he just sent it from the bottom and no followed him uh no probably not I think ja basically y should have gone

Straight off the bat he should have got Harper a pull two three minutes super hard um because Jacob had it lined out deloro was in really bad position I think nav was there but nav doesn’t climb as well as Yates he need to he needed to Stage

The play out exactly as it did um which is essentially like late attack from Yates in the last two minutes stop people come back recover like he’s not a pure climber um yeah y should have I think half a full gas lead out go Port style because that’s how you’re going to

Win that’s the only way I can see how you can win um and win too guys are out of position suddenly you got a 10 m Gap they look at each other um but he didn’t so yeah disappointing week for for J but yeah I think it was

It was it was interesting still seeing different guys like til Toro and I think it was high quality oh they were they were like 1 second off ports K big ta wi though oh was it okay course the goat I was actually I was a bit hard on um I’ve

Been a bit hard on on well Luke plat when he well not hard on him but when he first joined jco I was a bit like oh okay you you’ll have more freedom but they’re not going to have the support on paper than any else would and then also

Just the way he was talking up before the got less Freedom he’s Clear G GC Rider he’s clear with nov eyes doesn’t pull what waiting for you to Sprint or not Sprint yeah know what’s going yeah I mean that’s one example when I’m saying that though when I’m

Saying uh he won’t have the support he had at inos so he’ll get more freedom but oh yeah it’s it’s harder for him on paper is that based on anything like cuz you’re in that team sphere you see the behind the scenes that’s what I’m asking

You I’m saying it in terms of like staff uh access to testing is that is there still big differences there or or am I just Clinging On to things from six years ago oh between teams yeah but jao’s TT set are pretty [ __ ] hot like that’s a f

Setup so I don’t see a massive difference there and inos is obviously very fast would he have taken his same coach from he would have had to change coaches probably because I know Enos coached all in house I don’t know it I don’t know how jco work because some

Teams as you say they the the Riders can be coached by a coach who is like an independent who coaches across multiple teams rid across multiple teams to me that is just like unbelievable that’s not how visma work it’s not how anyos work like I don’t see how that’s

Possible uh because I just don’t that that doesn’t really happen in other sports I don’t think so um but I don’t know how it works with Jake I presume he might be I mean he’s got pinti there I think it’s a good setup for him I just think

Um sometimes they’re very slow to adjust based on what’s happening on the road versus what a riter’s name is how much they’re paying him and they do the same thing over over and over and over again um despite what we’re seeing is that you should do something different

Because they’re not who you think are look yeah your your potential concern would be actual in race tactics you you think of been off yeah yeah like if if pla goes to a race with gron ofan and it’s like a lumpy race where the GC boys they might kick

Off they might not kick off they kick off and Pla goes clear with a group of three and Dylan’s trying to hang on based on what we’ve seen in the doofan in previous races the last two years PL should be allowed to do what he wants

And ride for his GC result because gr can’t climb and even if he does get over the group he won’t be able to Sprint I think some teams are like today today we go for the Sprinter and doesn’t matter that the stage plays out completely different cuz Del Toro goes crazy and

Today we go through the Sprinter uh it’s all teams you know they have their their plans they got the high paid r i just as well like what I was probably getting at more is I look at a month at altitude can can jaob monitor that and

Have that as productive as a a ybo or an inos I haven’t seen it yeah I think so something beat Carlos Rodriguez in the tour last year came forth jako operating on a much smaller budget than any us but yeah there’s probably like yeah they got

Less one years you know he’s got he’s not maybe not going to have all that extra one percenters but if he’s happier if he feels more emotionally supported or in a environment that’s right for him or where he can be in Australia a little bit longer during the the year and that

Makes him happier and training then that’s going to outweigh any of those 1centers do you think uh that he would have taken a a pay cut to go back to jaob or he would have got like an Australian bonus no I don’t think so well but he would have been on his

Neopro contract at anyos and he still has promise so he came second in UA tour last year there was discussion there was just people on Twitter kind of saying oh well he got kicked off he got kind of he got booted from inos so I kind of what like he no

No no no no that would have been yeah that would have been his choice sure for sure obviously anyos said okay like you can go but um yeah no he had a year onized contract cuz I mean that I mean that’s a you joined a team that almost

Got booted out of the world to it yeah yeah yeah but you I don’t see how like there’s got to there’s got to be differences behind the scenes that are accounting for that or is it just a money thing that are like I think you’re overrating inos yeah they got his yeah

Yeah the great GC team but they’re not that good for their budget that’s the the reality for their budget and the Riders they have the results are not that good um but do you think jako get Henley or OK Conor next year do they need an Australian GC

Contender Yates out of contract do they not think that’s PL a fair point they we hoping it is yeah because then you don’t need to go spend on a guy that’s come fourth in the tour and a guy that’s won the Juro we got another hour and we’re Rogen

Territory I don’t know how he does it that’s [ __ ] impressive and they’re engaging too like I’ll do a three-hour Rogan I’ve never listen to one I thought that would be in your in your uh wheelhouse what is in the what is in the LR wheelhouse like what do I actually

Like what would I listen to yeah or listen to or watch what’s on the what’s on the the protocol like I don’t watch television oh pardon my take yeah American Sports American Sports stuff Chat Show stuff like like first takey type Steven A stuff or no like the step

The step above that step above that but not too far so like Fang graphs baseball on the statistics stuff where you’re like oh mention more stats in American Sports that is just too far like I start listening to it and all they’re talking is is in acronyms I’m like this is

Ridiculous part my take is good obviously like biggest Sports podcast in the world um and then I love listening to BS Report back in the day I don’t listen so much anymore I’m trying to look at why don’t we see more athlete podcasts in cycling like it’s a bit of a

Meme in the NBA now it’s like you get signed to an NBA team and you start a podcast right whereas like what I think we’ve got G jez G’s got one his is Big too that’s like a proper that’s up there in the rankings if you but I think he

Does 40 50k download yeah which shows there’s an audience for it and really no I maybe I missing a few but there doesn’t seem to be many others that that are sort of being done would you would you listen would you listen to them well

See I have a theory that most cyc most cyclists wouldn’t really give us the stuff we want to hear because kind of most PR cyclists are a bit insecure about their position and training with ge’s different he’s like the OG like he’s happy he’s in the right

Career yeah he’s at the end of the career whereas if you’re like I don’t know uh we tried to pitch Remco yeah on uh benj Benji doing a weekly podcast in Dutch with oh my God it would it would it would crush numbers in Belgium it

Would crush he’s trying to win the toour of France I don’t think he cares exactly like I mean why would he also do that like okay say from our perspective you could get some great brand deals right like big money but but to him is nowhere

Near his a contract and he’s going to have to split it and it’s going to be a distraction and sports are going to be writing articles about it so it’s like why in that point of your career would you do it whereas Thomas I think is thinking I got this podcast I built

Sitting right there for when I retire in two years yeah and I think probably someone Co I don’t know if it was his idea to start it or how reluctant he was but to do it but I think now he must really see the value in it what’s like the the the

Kelsey Brothers both of them had no idea what they were going to do after football and now they both probably got the biggest Sports podcast in the world at least the biggest athlete one Jesse’s just gone what the hell are you talking about anyway um he’s dating Travis um Travis Taylor Swift Travis

Kelsey D Taylor Swift but is is that plot actually good yeah good question uh don’t know the answer to that I haven’t actually because I would I I have no interest in in when you’re big enough it matter like if T paga did a podcast and

It was kind of slop people would still listen cuz it’s t paga Patrick thank you so much for your time uh obviously big year ahead for you we’ll uh we’ll be looking forward to seeing what yourself and Benji are doing in the studio and out in the road by the sounds of things

As well so thank you very much for your time thanks for having me guys thanks for your time Jesse and uh we’ll see you real soon thanks Bro Oh