We’ve all felt it, you’ll be pedalling up a fire road or along a flat piece of trail and the limiter hits you like a 50mph wind. It seems impossible to get any faster without the assistance from the motor, but do we really need to go any faster? Steve Jones has employed the help of ex-pro road cyclist Isaac Mundy to see if the 25km/H limit is any slower than someone on an analogue bike.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 – Intro
00:51 – What Is The Average Speed Of Pro Riders?
02:28 – Test 1 | 400m Flat Race (On Boost)
04:57 – Test 2 | 400m Flat Race (On Eco)
06:40 – Test 3 | 1610m Uphill Race (On Boost)
10:49 – Test 4 | 400m Flat Race (On Gravel eBike)
12:06 – Conclusion
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Many of you well actually many of us especially those who live in Europe would like to see the Restriction speed of Ean raised from 25 kilom an hour up to 32 km an hour which they have in many parts of the USA um and why not after all we all want
To get to that really cool single track as fast as possible but let’s not kid ourselves because that limiter doesn’t actually affect our descending and in many instances doesn’t actually affect Are Climbing too much either now where it actually might matter is on the flat
Which is why I have got with me a very fit person on a mountain bike so the aim of the video is to see how long can I stay with a mountain biker on the flat and also at what gradient might I be able to pull back the
Time okay at this point I have dragged over from gmbn former pro roie and World Cup cross country men bike rider and also a maths expert Isaac Newton sorry Mendy Isaac uh average speed of the tour to France I mean St flat stages they’ll sit
At like 50 km an hour a lot of the day they’re honestly flying the speed especially since covid the speed of the pelaton is insane but that’s got the that’s obviously got the advantage of the the wind resistance from the pelaton and also skinny tires M 25 28 right okay
Obviously mountain bike going be different what about World Cup cross country racing such a lot slower short track they might be doing 30 but uh with the amount of climbing they’re doing in that Olympic discipline it might be between kind of 15 and 20 km an hour the
Ones I did right okay because they’re just there stacking so much elevation now that’s an average speed average okay so what I suggest we do just to get a benchmark going to see if I can actually stick with you because I’m guessing that this what we have here folks is a
Standard quartermile drag that’s 440 uh yards 400 m um to see at what point because obviously I’m probably going to go off first yeah you’re going to zoom away off the line but I think you’re going to quickly get back and when I hit that 25 kph limiter I reckon
You’re going to pull away that’s my guess anyway that’s my wish that’s what I’m hoping for right let’s go have a look okay Isaac I think what we need to do is like ride sat down but as fast as possible like as if we’re trying to
Replicate a ride to the next uh next down on stage yeah so SS going to count it in I’m in boost mode folks I’m in boost mode my legs all right this is going to be interesting I’ve never done this before count it in then all right 5 4 3 2 1
Go oh I’m Steve’s pulling away I need to get up to that magic 25k hour mark as I thought I’m ahead and we’re nearly there and now I feel off the Speed 32 km an hour 33 km an hour oh there you go there he goes 33 oh that’s just ridiculous I’m
Probably not going to be able to sustain this obviously my bike is slightly heavier so now fading fading down to 26 yeah 25 there you go he’s just cruising that I think we went a bit hard there I’m like uh it’s a qu mile dash CU you know I think that wasn’t your standed sort of transition to the trail head uh probably went off a bit too hard
I was probably like yeah 50 m ahead of you but you soon pulled back but that was too fast I think uh quick summary of that is boost mode you wouldn’t ride on the flat and boost mode um the the difference over over a quarter mile 2 seconds probably we were
Going pretty fast but I’m glad you said that I am it’s it’s so noticeable the acceleration you just gone those like first two pedal strokes but then when we are up to speed it yeah it doesn’t actually feel that different really like I don’t think I’d do a transition flat
Stage at that intensity no I think I would actually I mean I was doing I was doing 32k which is too fast obviously I couldn’t sustain that on a 23 Kilo bike no I probably couldn’t sustain that on a na light the not saying all the right
Things I guess the thing is you’re on Boost then weren’t you and probably most it’s a good start but most of the time you’re going to be rolling around maybe on a trailer eco mode right you’re not going to be rinsing that boost not between the trail heads certainly not on
The flat so okay well should I should we give it another going I go to Eco give me another chance to then are you ready yeah 3 two 1 oh that’s different is it once I’m up to 27 it doesn’t actually matter actually doesn’t matter what mode I’m in so oh I’m just
Cruising all right it’s probably 2 seconds over A4 mile okay I’m done with that he’s keeping going on the flat Eco I’m doing 22 23 km an hour is plenty I’m not rinsing the battery I’m not really that far behind a mountain bike all right you got that uh so that
Time uh well that was a bit different uh you definitely got ahead of me quicker yeah I think my average speed is were 19 20 km an hour I think that is more representative I mean let’s face it Eco should be a mode you use on a trail like
That but nevertheless I was behind right yeah and it did feel a lot more cruisy for me to be honest so I think in order to pull back you need to go harder for longer really harder for longer well funny should say that because being a gentleman of a certain age I do
Frequently get messages on my Facebook and Instagram suggesting the very thing welcome to the Valley now I think what we have here is one mile and I think this this sort of flat semi climb is represents what you would probably do on a ride and it’s 1 mile long and it’s
Just under 100 ft climbing over that distance so it’s not much no that’s that’s the geese by the way which kind of works in my favor a little bit you know if it was a really hard time I think you’d have time to put a kettle on
Before I was there but it’s going to be interesting this cuz it does roll and I can try and Claw my way back into it without busting too much of a gut and knowing that Isaac is a racer he will want to call I want it it’s not a race right
Okay uh I’m now in boost mode and and what what I’m going to do is I’m going to literally what I I blew up from the first one I’m actually going to try and try and gauge this a little bit better than just to Twist the knife at the end
And right are you ready 3 2 1 3 2 1 he’s off like a bullet I think you want it oh I’m just I need to just keep under oh this is too equal this is too equal I’m in boost mode I knew you have me there I’m going to keep it under 25 as you can see I’m on the
Limiter even on the climb he is such a racer oh pulled the head Momentarily I think it’s elbow to Elbow here and actually not kid in this is for Real oh God I think the 20 something’s got me Ah one mile 100 ft vertical you had me that’s the difference between an athlete and an old guy but I will s when it’s when it kicks up I’m slipping like it’s really hard but then you just keep if you can maintain that effort as soon
As you get fast it’s just you just creep away I think so I was like in I I was like in and out of that limit sorry i’ got a league of gentlemen nose bleed on uh excuse me folks sorry for that uh that’s just the physicality of that
Wasn’t expec I wasn’t expecting to do an interval training today I generally thought I’d beat you on on one so did I so here’s the question you know your maths right yeah so there’s got to be a Tipping Point At what point even with the 25 km limiter I’m still going to be
Under the limit where I’m going to have be at Advantage what kind of I’d like to know what gradient it is yeah be interesting that because it we can work it out with um weight basically the extra weight the gravitational potential energy as and then the gradient in terms
Of the the rate of V or the rate you’re climbing as opposed to your forward speed to get the balance of the extra power versus extra weight Arrow we’re kind of the same and doesn’t really make a difference for an El he’s definitely said all Air a are about the same oh I
Love that’s great with intolerances cuz I got my big jacket on so like I got my two big jackets on too there’s a it’s fairly fairly straightforward bit arithmetic that I’m pretty puffed so it’s you know be on me right now should I tell you the arithmetic you need to
Know yeah you need to know the arithmetic on my rigid bike oh let’s have you okay Isaac here is my weapon it’s a rigid weapon Canyon Grail oh yes oh yes I I think let’s not mess around I think certainly just get your get your gopr on
Get your mindset on because we are going to go against the clock quarter mile dash I think my day just got taken up a gear right and Isaac uh track stand engaged Road style count us in count us in 3 2 1 Go it’s okay it’s okay I think it’s a red pill blue pill moment okay got it I got it I got it I tell you what so I was just just been sick and the Hedge back there red pill blue pill moment well whatever it is it’s affected you like that you want
Some of that but folks to to return to the question is 25 kph too slow this is obviously people outside the US um I think he possibly is in certain situations but in general I don’t think it’s as you say I don’t think it takes away the fun for youand but folks let’s
Know your thoughts on it maybe we should work harder to get um the limit increased too cuz this 25 like it’s quite old legislation as well isn’t it it has been around for a long time the 25k an hour mark and it maybe it hasn’t been maybe the modern ebike needs a
Little bit of reexamining interesting words from an almost e by convert would you like to take it away oh would I would I take it away Isaac I’d go that way if I was you a
50 Comments
Why is there any limit? I have my 2021 Trek rail derestricted and on the flats I’m easily able to hit 30mph. Who cares the birds and the squirrels? The limiter feels like a brake.
more regurgitation of the same sheet content.
No restriction necessary. A gas powered dirtbike has no restrictor just abide by the posted speed limit.
👍Allow 32km/h👏, and there will be more people cycling, as the time spent commuting to and from work will be even shorter than sitting frustrated in a traffic jam.
This is the best environmental impact for the whole world if special cycle roads also start to be built😘
Something I'd like to add after experiencing both a restricted and unrestricted Orbea Rise: It feels as if the motor is designed for 20mph and restricting it further to 25 kph is an afterthought. It tapers off to the limit much more natural in 20 mph mode. Might be a EP8 RS thing, but it is certainly noticeable.
“Pretty basic maths”. I don’t even know what he said 🤷♂️😂
Yes faster the better
Looks we need to put a restrictor on non e-bikes as well
I have 2 ebikes – Giant Trance X E+ (20mph) and a former hardtail that has a mid-drive (tongsheng) conversion kit running hte open source firmware that allows whatever configuration you want.
I rarely hit the 20mph limit on the Giant Trance E+. On a charity ride with a lot of flat ground in between bits, I bumped it a lot but settled into a cadence/speed just below it. fyi that eats battery faster than normal.
If I used my conversion ebike with the firmware set to de-restricted assist, I simply run out of gear well before 30mph. I could re-gear with a massive front sprocket but then it wouldn't work on hills.
Yes it's annoying, but there are a few good reasons to leave it at 25; like less injuries, less wear& tear,more respectful to other outdoor people. Also better for the planet, we really need to slow down to get emissions down (all EV's)
US got it right. 32 km/h is the right limit.
25 km/h is way too slow
The limit is 25 here in Australia too. Needs to be raised
As a pensioner who rides a traditional MTB and has no intension of getting an eMTB, you guys on eMTB's just need to stop whinging. If 25 km/h is too slow for you, get a motorbike.
On the road it would be nice to have a bit more, but on the trail there's always a few that ride way too quick considering you might have a walker or a horse around the next blind corner.
If it was 20mph I would snap one up instantly. Find myself at 15-20mph and the 15mph limit is like hitting a brick wall you’ve then got to take up pedalling the heavy bike and a motor and gearbox it slows me down when I want to go fast. You have to pedal so hard to get 18-20mph then freewheel downhill. Keep your momentum up and just full send it. A right shame as removing the limiter voids your warranty
I don't ride e-bikes. But if you ask me, you already asked the wrong question. I don't see anything wrong with the 25 km/h limit. It's low enough that in the flats a somewhat fit non-e-biker can hold the wheel and you don't constantly run into "being held back" on trails shared with mountainbikers and hikers (please don't get the idea of making e-bike and non-e-bike trails…).
The relevant questions regarding e-bikes rather are: why are the faste ones restricted to 45 km/h and not either 50 km/h to better match the speed of cars and motorbikes or 30 km/h like mopeds which are the same category? (And why let now moped riders wear cycling helmets instead of e-bikers wear motorbike helmets!?)
Its way too slow i can go way faster on a normal bike! I own a ebike its great but on the roads home its way too slow
Thank you. If raised to 32 kph it would fit perfectly to the german city limit of 30 kph. Would like to, yes!
My bike is derestricted and it's an absolute godsend on flat roads between trails or hills. I very rarely go above 20mph though so it would be a very good fit-all cutoff speed for ebikes I think
Is it too low – for the road it’s ridiculous off road I’m quite happy to get my workouts and not wind up too many non e’s on the local trails
Yeah 25 kph is indeed pretty puny once you get out of the city.
20 mph is a good limit, that’s what my tero 3.0 does. The concern is on mix use trails over 20 is quite dangerous to pedestrians.
25 km/h is for me for MTB. It's too slow on the road though.
I've been on an ebike now for 8 years and the limiter has never been an issue. Want go faster get a road bike or a motorbike. I average 30Km on a ride and I'm a fat git…
It definitely does effect decending !! jump lines are 20mph and you hit them while peddling a heavy bike
32 kph is plenty for me here in Canada.
It's not motocross. 25 is fine and if not go do motocross on a track and leave the trails alone.
Flow lines are annoying aswell when u need to pedal 20mph ish
I’ve got an Orbea rise and so has my mate but his is set to US spec. Mines way to slow for hitting jumps but when I ride my mates, I can hit every jump at the correct speed
25kp/H? What? Up your driveway? Honestly, that is the low limit of my road/ sidewalk speed on my twenty year old MTB on the flat around here.
It’s ironic that in the USA where it’s capped at 20mph, yet e-bikes remain largely illegal at most trails located upon state and federal public lands. Yet in UK/EU, where there’s seemingly no restriction on ebike access to trails, you’re saddled with a ridiculously low assist limit
Limit must be raised, 25km/h is too limited. I just switched from a rigid mtb to e-bike and when I want to cruise in flat zones at high speed (+30km/h) the drag and weight are annoying… Seeing from another point of view you can put a hard training in your legs in this areas 😬
IN reality, the 20 mph bikes in the US start crapping out at 18.5 mph. 20 is largely a dream.
I dunno how you deal with a 15 mph limit. We do ride flow trails where the US limit is hit routinely.
But nobody seems sure of long term effects of de-restricting the motors.
I hate hitting the limit. Gravel E bikes and road E are 28 mph. So………..
If you are forced to share roads with cars – you need to be as fast. Since in Europe we assume 30km/h is slow enough to skip building bike lines, we end up going 25 in 30 and being passed by everyone, usually with a paper thin margin
Question to other loyal followers of EMBN. How has your de-restricted E-Mt bike done long term?
Any problems with an EP8 being de-restricted?
Funny how cars dont jave mandatory speed limiters. Ues there are limits in law bit no devices on vehicles themselves. Seems unfair on bikes in comparison.
If it wont go to 32km/h i have to derestrict my bike, because 25km/h is really just too slow. Is there a way to get US version software on european motors?
30-35 km/h will be fine. – and there will be 90% less tuning. Every Racing Bike will be as fast without an engine.
Or they have to allow S-Pedelec (45km/h) to drive in the forests or Bike paths.
Maybe with speedlimits in done area's.
With a Porsche you are also allowed to drive Roads with Speedlimits. Why not drive an S-Ped on bike path with 25km/h limit in Cities.
My first Ebike I derestricted and it was glorious, my second one, a Yamaha Moro Pro, cannot be fiddled with, at first it sucked rocks, but 3 years later I just don't care anymore. But I do find it ridiculous that you are restricted to a speed SLOWER than you can ride without motor assistance, that makes no sense at all.
Yes, e-bikes should have classes but the speeds are irrelevant. Here is why. Motor vehicles pass by cyclists and pedestrians with massive speeds. Might I add in close proximity, sidewalks, paths and trails. Think about that. So you’re saying a cyclist cannot ride in a safe way… and pass pedestrians etc? We have enough laws you do stupid things and you will get punished.
Definitely needs to be raised. When cycling between areas on the road, it can be dangerously slow.
Would also be great to not hit a brick wall on the straight trails at my local.
Do the same test on a trail because the only time you need to up the speed limits is on the road or forest roads.
I’m in the states and I agree that it’s rare when the 20mph limit here affects when riding trails. But if I was commuting, I’d prefer 25mph so that I can keep up with traffic and not sweat too much.
We were staying in Seahouses for New Year & wandered down to the harbour, how glad were we! By far the best fireworks we have ever seen. Credit due to all those concerned in the organisation of the event. Absolutely brilliant 😊👌👏🏻
the speed limit is less annoying than the power limit. i'm surrounded by huge steep hills, around here 250w limit is total bullshit. pointless.
When connecting trails on the road I notice it most 30 kph would help
Off road, it doesn't make much difference but for roadies, commuters and general leisure cycling, it makes a massive difference and it the difference between wanting to desrestict your bike and not. The Law 100% needs updating.
Watts per kilo?
Also, on my 12speed ebike I can only use 8 gears 9th gear over the limiter is too heavy. My 8th gear is definitely gona wear out before all the other cogs 😆😆