The upcoming 2024 Olympics in Paris, France is set to be unique on so many levels, including plans to have the Seine River be the site of the swimming portion of the triathlon. However, with E. coli levels being much higher than they typically should be for such a race, many fans and athletes are wondering, will the swimming even happen?
This episode of the Naturopathic Family Podcast dives into the issues surrounding the E Coli dilemma of the Paris Triathlon. Sharing unique insight into this issue is Dr. Taylor Horlick, ND, a Portland, Oregon-based naturopathic physician and a decorated triathlete. She shares her seasoned triathlon experience and gives insight into this year’s Olympic race, what athletes might be thinking and feeling, and much more.
0:00 Introduction
1:55 The E. coli Problem
3:12 What is E. coli? #twistyballoons
6:59 Dr. Taylor Horlick, ND
8:25 What is the Triathlon?
12:20 Favorite Leg of Triathlon
13:40 Favorite Memory/Race
17:43 “How do you not swallow water when swimming?”
20:16 Different Water Conditions
22:20 Water Quality Issues and Pre-Race Mentality
26:13 Lessons as a Physician-Athlete
36:22 Athlete-Focused Medicine
To get ahold of Dr. Horlick, visit https://www.groundbreakingclinic.com/
drtaylor@groundbreaking.clinic
503-305-9385
More about the Seine River cleanup:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/olympic-effort-clean-river-seine-may-spoiled-rainy-day-rcna147966
Schedule a free 15-minute consultation with Dr. Michael Smith: https://www.focusedfamilyintegrativemedicine.com/booking
#olympics #parisolympics2024 #triathlon #running #swimming #cycling #ecoli #bacteria #seineriver
what does this water have to do with the Olympics that’s what we’re going to talk about right now [Music] [Music] I’m Dr Michael Smith I’m a naturopathic physician who loves the Olympics in just a few weeks the Paris Olympics are going to kick off in a way that’s unlike any other Olympics that we have seen in history The Opening Ceremonies for all other games including the Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Olympics in which I will lived right next to and part of have all begun at a big Stadium whether it’s football stadium soccer stadium um track Stadium but for Paris they are moving the opening ceremonies to the sen River the sen is a long river and it flows through the heart of Paris it really defines the city uh in many ways 2019 my wife and I went to Paris France on a on a trip and on that trip uh I collected in this little shampoo bottle some water from the sen River so this is the sen in my hand the sen River is is going to be used as with a flotilla of boats to carry athletes um for what we are going to see during the Olympics and during the opening ceremonies and it’s also the site of the location for the triathlon swimming events and other water events as well but there’s a problem and you may have heard of about it in the news is that the sen river water quality is not that great there’s a few things and reasons why that is first of all FR uh Paris is an old city it’s been around for hundreds of years and with an old city with millions of people living in it and around it over history there’s sewage and his the sewage system and has not always caught up or maintained with the population growth so we have a lot of sewage that may or may not have ended up in the sen River and causing water quality issues and granted there are lots of other reasons why there are water quality issues but but that I think is one of them um Paris has done an amazing job from what I have read building an underground water storage system cleaning up and and renovating and improving their sewage system to minimize this but it still remains that levels of a certain bacteria are 2 and a half times the normal limits of what they should be to be safe for swimming that bacteria is eoli or Formerly Known with the full name as esteria coli eoli as depicted by my little friend here on this balloon um is a bailus bacteria which means it’s Rod it looks literally like this it has a little flagella so this works really well this balloon for showing us the type of shape that the eoli has and this is a happy bacteria ecoli is found inside our bodies we have eoli in and around us we’ve got different strains this is strain a we’ve got strain B and they’re just happy um they’re dividing when they divide they literally just separate off and form two new bacteria and then they grow obviously with balloons I can’t fully separate them so that’s what we get with that but in our gut is where we have a lot of bacteria and there’s a lot of eoli just naturally happening if someone does a stool test they would come in and give a stool sample uh and on that stool sample there would be a significant amount of eoli however when things get out of balanc is when things can go wrong so we have a lot of eoli and a lot of other bacteria in our gut that’s just there it’s growing it’s dividing it’s feeding off of our food that we eat and um but there can be a problem with certain strains we talked about a strain B this is strain uh 0.57 H7 I didn’t that’s upside down there we go um this is an angry strain of eoli why is it Angry is that when we have uh strains of certain strains of bacteria like eoli um inside of our gut it can cause GI symptoms think diarrhea think um bloating gas pain otherwise other just abdominal discomfort it’s not fun so when eoli gets out of balance or when we get a strain of ecoli through contamination through contaminated water through produce that has been contaminated with the bad strains of eoli it goes into our gut it grows and it kills off or it crowds out rather the good strains so the good strains go away and we’re left with the bad strains of eoli and that’s when we get GI symptoms so one um of the main re concerns about the sen river water is this eoli and how there’s way more eoli in the river likely because of sewage than there should be it has the potential to affect the health of the athletes who are participating in it so I have read in the news and you may have as well about how the amazing uh organizers of the Paris Olympics have been doing everything they can to clean up the water for the Olympics um specifically for the triathlon event um the triathlon is event is one that there’s um there swimming there’s bike racing and then there’s running and if we if the water is too dirty they can’t complete the swimming portion of that event and and other events as well it it throws into concern the health effects of these athletes and and if they swim in it what is going to happen now we are still a couple weeks away uh at the time of this recording um from the Olympics Paris is doing all they can and I commend them for that but it still is a question so to help me learn more about what the triathlon is what the effect that water quality can have on athletes I have had a wonderful conversation with one of my good friends and fellow um naturopathic physicians Dr Taylor horck and I’m excited to share with you the conversation that we had together about the triathlon about water quality and about how it would could and will likely affect the Olympics and the athletes participating in those games so here is that interview I hope you enjoy it I am excited to dive in today about more about the triathlon with one of my good friends and fellow colleagues Dr Taylor HCK who is a naturopathic physician and also a triathlete um Dr horic uh lives and practices in Portland Oregon at groundbreaking Health where she uses a lot of great techniques including neur emotional technique body modification and um a lot of like whole body um focus on helping people feel better um Dr HCK has been uh a a triathlete since 2011 and has done a lot of great things with that so I’m excited to learn more about the triathlon myself and help you do as well so thanks for joining me today you’re very welcome thanks for having me okay so for somebody that doesn’t know that maybe they’ve heard of triathlon but they don’t know like what it is exactly how do you describe the triathlon so Triathlon um most simply put is Swim Bike Run um and then the distances vary depending on what race you do um there’s Sprint distances which is the shortest distance there’s an Olympic distance which is what will be happening in Paris in a few weeks um and then you get into the longer distances the half iron man and the Iron Man distances um so an Olympic distance is a 1500 meter swim so it’s just shy of a mile it’s 0.93 mile swim and then you do um a 24.6 I believe I should look up the exact uh distance but about 24 Mile bike ride and then a 10k run at the end so 6.2 miles at the end and then a Sprint is essentially half of those distance es the half Iron Man is essentially double those distances and then the full Iron Man is double a half Iron Man distance so depending on which length you like to do there’s a wide variety yeah I was looking at those numbers the other day and it’s like for the full Iron Man it’s like a full Marathon at the end right yeah the full Iron Man is those those athletes honestly impress me I have only ever gotten to the half Iron Man distance and I’m perfectly content and very happy with the half distance the full is a 2.6 mile swim followed by 112 mile bike ride and then a full Marathon at the end uh 26.2 miles and that’s it’s that’s a lot those people are extremely impressive very dedicated takes a lot of time for training full race day yeah it’s a long one what’s your favorite distance like of of all of those to do I’ve really over the years my focus on training has really been more towards um the half Iron Man distance and that’s really where I’ve found that’s a that’s been my favorite distance so far um I really like the Olympic as well but the half Iron Man to me has been a good distance um to where you can push it and really push yourself you know as hard as you can but you also have to balance the amount of time and endurance that you’re going to be out there for where in Olympic you know you’re going as hard as you can for the whole race and then a Sprint is like you’re really going as hard as you can for that distance so I really like the half distance just being you go hard but you also have to balance just the endurance aspect of it um so I think that’s that’s my favorite distance so far wow that that’s amazing I’ve done I’ve done swimming I’ve done bike riding I haven’t done a lot of running myself but I can only imagine that putting all those together would would not be easy and it takes practice it’s yeah it’s not easy it takes I mean it takes a lot of practice takes a lot of training um yeah and I wildly trained my way through school which you know maybe I could have managed balance that a little bit better but it’s they’re fun it’s crazy and then you get to race day and whatever the weather is you just gotta you got to make it work with the weather whether it’s crazy wind or rain or you know whatever it is it every every race is is an adventure yeah yeah I I remembering in class hearing about your your training and your races that was fun yeah um which leg is your favorite which which of the three um I really think I’ve grown to like the bike the stronger I get on the stronger cyclist I become um I really the hills are not my favorite um but if I have a flatter course where I can just get down an arrow and grind out the miles per hour grind out those Watts I really those are my favorites um I grew up a runner so I started running in high school so that’s really where all this began for me so then in college when I started doing Triathlon I had you know that was my first time really biking and swimming so I grew up a runner but I’d say over the years the stronger I get on the bike that one’s my favorite and then the Run I’d say is my second favorite and then I just survive the swim swim mentality just survive the swim and then you can start having fun on the bike and run yeah because you do the swim first and then you jump on the bike and then you go run after that yeah and the run is usually pretty painful um well yeah especially in those half distances you’re just you’re pretty toast you’re pretty tired it’s you know 11 or 12 it’s pretty hot in the day so you’re just doing whatever you can mentally to just keep one foot moving in front of the other yeah uh what’s your favorite memory as a triathlete maybe a race or something that you’ve done oh my gosh there’s so many to to there’s there’s just been so many to to think about and do but honestly I would say um I would say the boulder half Iron Man I did in 2019 before school was probably has probably been my favorite memory to date um because I was in great shape before school started um that was my last big race before school started and it’s in Boulder where I’m born and raised so everybody there is an aspiring you know professional triathlete so going back home for that race that year I just remember mentally you know being more of the mindset of like I would just love to finish in the top 20 that’s my goal you know we’ll see how this goes and I remember finishing the race and my husband you know came over gave me a you know a hug and a kiss and told me that I was in fourth place out of 95 women so I think that was uh that was my favorite memory today and so in the 70.3 have Iron Man distance and Iron Man if you’re if you finish within the top five you you get to stand on the podium and so finishing in fourth place I and being at home my whole family was there watching the race and so my whole family got to be there for the awards and and I got to stand up on the on the podium and and get you know a big big medal you know award I guess it’s not like is really a trophy I keep looking up looking up because I have everything framed right in front of me um but so anyway I think that was probably one of my favorite memories just just being on the podium and being at home for that race and so I was able to have my whole family there my mom my parents and my brother and sister and my husband came out for it as well so that was a lot of fun um and then I would say I did two half Iron Man l last year and I think last year just being able to finish those races was also in a different way some of my favorite memories because after four years of medical school um and one of those races was in the middle of studying for boards I was exhausted I was just so tired um and just waking up race day morning um for both of those one was at at the end of May one was at the end of July I just truly didn’t know if I was going to finish the race just with my pure fatigue level so I’d say the fact that I was able to finish both of those races last year um is also just some of my like most prized memories as well just knowing I got to finish them that’s awesome I think um I think in life we often run races figuratively maybe and I think just finishing it is just half the battle yes not even like scoring or Podium or like meddling just just finishing yeah and that was my goal at the two races last year like I said just burnt out from pretty much every end from Med medical school and training in school and and health stuff through school um so yeah last year just being able to finish those races and prove to myself that you know mentally I’m mentally strong enough to to push through and and finish yeah finish the races so I’d say those were I guess those three are my top favorite memories that’s awesome thank you for sharing yeah um questions more specifically about swimming and I know you’re not the biggest of swimmers first question I know that a lot of the the the things in the news are like about just swim don’t drink the water just swim in it um and we’ve obv as Physicians naturopathic doctors we we help people with with gut health and that’s where like eoli can come in and wreak havoc if it’s out of balance things like that um in your experience how hard is it to to swim and not get water in your mouth um it’s very challenging I mean it’s not like every you’re not swallowing a bunch of water but but there are times where yeah you’re swinging around people and you go to you know take a breath and the person right next to you just kicked in your face and so surprise there’s a gulp of water or you’re inhaling the water you know so I wouldn’t say I do a swim and I’m drinking half the wake or the river but there are I’d say with every swim there’s just some accident where you’re too close to someone or it’s windy and a wave comes and and at the perfect time just you’re taking a breath and so you’re either swallowing it or inhaling the water and you have to Hof it up for a quick second but um yeah there’s the water it finds a way finds a way in during race yeah yeah you like it or not so I can imagine that it’s hard for these athletes that are facing the triathlon or those other distant swimming events like you know I can I can imagine it’d be hard for them because I I’ve done lap swimming myself granted in a swimming pool with clean water and so I I kind of get it but but it sounds like it’s a whole other dimension when you’re actually racing yeah in a in a way just because you are dealing with more people um I mean in a lap pool I definitely swallow my fair share of the chlorine um and that’s just me by myself in my own lane you know and so you throw in just the natural just just the natural you know behavior of the River or the lake and the waves and you’re just swimming around a bunch of people um it does I’m not going to say make it impossible but it makes it difficult to avoid a couple gulps of water here and there yeah throughout yeah totally um what are the different like water conditions that you’ve swam in as as a triathlete you mention lakes and rivers what like um what what do those look like um I’ve swam here in Oregon um the I’ve done the Salem half Iron Man for the last three years that’s in the wamit uh River so pretty quick pretty fast uh but clean River um to where you can really see through it um the cordelan lake is always very clean um my mom and I just did that race two weeks ago uh so it was extremely windy that day so they actually shortened the swim because there were were White Caps all over the lake so that was no longer safe for the athletes so they didn’t fully cancel it but they shortened it to about a quarter of what it normally is and I’m so thankful they did that was a rough swim um but usually the water I swim in excuse me being lakes or Rivers has usually been pretty clean I do remember the boulder half Iron Man when I did that in 2019 there was also concern of um too high high of equal ey levels in the days leading up to the race so we weren’t sure if we were going to be able to swim in it or not but they whatever they did treating it you know who knows what they did by The Day The Day Before the Race they said you know it was green light and we were we were able to swim in it so and I don’t remember having any significant you know after effects of elevated eoli or or anything so whatever they did must have worked but usually usually they’re pretty clean rivers and lakes that we swim in cool yeah I think and obviously each each place that you do it or even probably around the world if you were to do International races it would be different like like the sen River in Paris so where where they’re at right now how does like knowing that there’s water quality issues or maybe even um like really like really bad wind conditions or things like that like how does that change your mental preparation for the race because you’re like if you you do or do not do the swim part that’s a big part of the the race how does that change your mental preparation I would say it’s a little bit stressful because you I don’t love the swim like I said earlier I just I survive it um but the swim aspect is really nice to have especially well really in in any in any race and my my mentality right now is just the the half Iron Man distance because it’s really what I I’m doing um but in any distance the swim is really nice to have just whether you love it or hate it it helps just warm up the body um before you jump on your your bike um and so to go into a race not necessarily or just with questionable swim conditions it’s a little bit you know a little bit stressful just in the way that um just just trying to prepare for that like you know you will have to be you do have to mentally prepare for oh there might not be a swim and we’re all just going to start you know right out of the gates hard on our bikes or you know maybe uh like for Boulder the days leading up to it we usually get in the swim a couple days or the day before just to feel out the water see what it’s like so of course in that when the water is a little bit questionable with maybe bacteria levels you’re you are a little bit worried of like well if I get in the day before and swim in the lake or the reservoir wherever it is just to to get a feel for the water to get a feel for my wet suit um there is a little bit of that worry of you know am I is this water going to make me sick and then am I not going to be able to race tomorrow or you know if the water is questionable on race day morning if I do drink a lot of it is that going to throw you know my GI and everything else off for the rest of the race and is it going to ruin my race or you know if there’s wind like for Paine the day before it was pretty windy swimming in the lake and I was pretty freaked out I’m a pretty comfortable Open Water swimmer but it felt like I was essentially swimming in the ocean and so race day morning when the wind was even worse it it took a lot to mentally prepare for like okay this is going to be worse than yesterday I can survive this so so yeah the the swim does take a lot of mental preparation if it’s not going to be a perfect you know perfect glassy smooth River or or lake clean um it really can change the mentality of the rest of the race in my opinion from my experience yeah and you have more experience than most people um thank you for sharing it’s it’s uh intriguing to think about like what what athletes are going through right now we are that’s I’m recording this today on the 9th of July the opening ceremonies are the 26th so we’re like 17 days away two weeks and all in change you know like what thinking about what those athletes are going through as they prepare for the race on on the world stage um it’s not uh yeah not probably easy for them to think like okay if I’m just jumping and it’s now a biathlon instead of a triathlon how does that change my strategy and and things like that and for the people that maybe are stronger swimmers and weaker at other other parts of it that might throw them off a little bit too mhm and it also just changes the mentality of in again just speaking from my experience in in my yeah my experience but it also changed it in the fact of like I’m going to do a triathlon Swim Bike and run if this swim is cancelled you almost I guess I almost feel cheated a little bit and in that I didn’t get to to fully see what I was capable of that day with a third of the race granted it’s a smallest part of the race in the grand scheme of mileage um but to have one aspect of it cut out for any reason it does it does make me feel just a little bit cheated and you and a lot of times when the swim is cancelled usually is for safety reasons so you know we’re thankful that our safety is being taken into account but the competitive athletic side of myself also feels just a little bit cheated um and that I didn’t get to fully prove myself and see you know what I was capable of that day and so I can’t even imagine that on the world scale where everyone is watching if you know for whatever reason they have to cancel the swim for the Olympics how that would feel for those athletes you know this is their one their one day to to prove that they’re the best in the world and to have a third of that you know if if that portion would be ever would be cut out for whatever reason I I would imagine that would very hard on them just because I know it it would be very difficult on me to to not get to put the whole thing together on that one major day totally you can definitely see that um what have you learned um from being an athlete that relates to your experience as both maybe a patient but especially a physician taking care of people like I don’t know if there’s any correlations that you’ve noticed about things that you go through as an athlete things that you go through maybe you as a patient or or as just even as a doctor like any any relationships there um I would say it’s a really great question I think that I I mean I would say my biggest learning experience about myself and myself as an athlete has been training through medical school and just seeing Um how my hyperfocus um and drive on training and wanting to be the best athlete that I can be really really was not ideal for my health in medical school I didn’t early on I did not have a great balance with that um and so I really pushed myself training wise a lot harder than I probably should have being the most stressed out I’ve probably ever been in my life the first couple years of school as I’m sure you can remember how bad first year was oh yeah um and so I really had to take a huge step back from training for a couple years in our our middle two years of medical school I mean I was still training but I really had to take a step back and and obviously now I’m not where I was 5 years ago and that’s because Medical School ended up being the priority and I needed to start prioritizing my health in school over my training and so at this point I’ve had to really learn to give myself a lot of Grace um which has probably been one of the biggest learning experiences um I would say to date in my athletic career and so with that in mind I feel like I can relate to people and patients who do have this type A mentality this drive this this need to be the best you know athlete that they can be or the best person that they can be um I can fully relate to that but I also now see this side of if you’re not there for whatever reason if your body is too tired if you’ve completely worn out your body for whatever reason whether it’s stress or physical um I can now more relate to how important it is to take step back give yourself the grace your body needs obviously I still have a hard a hard time doing that um because I’m I’m still in the middle of this Learning lesson but I’d say with athletes I can speak from my experience I can speak from the heart about how important it is yeah to give yourself Grace to step back a little bit let your body heal and then once your body is ready it can come back and it might be stronger than it was before but yeah I there are a couple people in mind I can think of who have this mentality of I can’t take a break I can’t slow down you know like I need to be the best I can be but at the same time physically they’re completely worn out and so I feel like it’s it will allow me to relate to to patients um in the future because I’d love to be able to work with athletes and working on mindset and getting their bodies back to health and I think with the experience I have now there’s a whole another level of relatability that I have with these patients that I wouldn’t have had before this whole experience of feeling like I was at the top of my game and now feeling like you know I got knocked down for health reasons in school and and training and now I’m slowly putting the pieces back together and at least just getting back to where I can train comfortably and feel good and then hopefully slowly I can start to build back up to the level I want to be because you know that’s the goal I’d still love to be the best that I can be but yeah some learning experiences have taught me that that’s not always it’s not always the priority so I think I think that will help with patients in the future for sure thank you as I think there’s two main things that stood out to me when you were talking one of them is is that healing is a journey and and we you’re talking about races and now and just how like the the half Iron Man is kind of like you balance the the the Fast and the speed with the endurance and how with like the healing journey of a patient we don’t get sick overnight we don’t get better overnight it’s it’s it’s the Long Haul and especially with patients who come to to come to us for naturopathic medical care we’re not we’re not it’s not the short Band-Aid here’s a drug see by you’re okay your labs are fine let’s just you know it’s it’s we’re it’s a long haul and we want to get better as fast as we can but also realize that that sometimes that takes takes time and the other thing that stood out was um was the need for balance just in all aspects of our life and oh yeah oh yeah I’ve learned that the hard way everything needs to be balanced you know whether you whether you you know like it or not or want the balance or not but yeah I’ve learned balance is key um for your physical health your adrenals are very important and if you’re burning the candle at all ends they’re going to burn out very quickly but I do tell patients that all the time when they you know come in and you know who doesn’t want to feel better overnight you know but I have to remind patients that you know you’re 50 years old you know we your body has had 50 years to get to this point you know like as much as I would love to just wave a magic wand and and have you feeling better and you know back to your normal self by next week like it’s going to take time and so I tell patients that a lot I’m like we’re we’re on a journey together you know this might might take a little bit of time because it took a lot of time to get to where you are now and so over time we’re slowly going to unravel you know that onion that got you in this place and layer by layer we’ll get rid of all that stuff and it’s a journey so I can speak on that because I’ve definitely been on my own healing Journey the last few years and and yeah it’s a journey one you have to be patient for and again give yourself Grace and and find that find that balance beautifully said and you you can speak from it from a patient from a physician and an athlete who who runs these runs bikes swims these Journeys frequently so yeah yeah so you know do I love what I went through in school and do I love where I’m at right now because of you know pushing myself way too hard in school no but it’s given me a lot of perspective like you said as the patient as the athlete and now as the doctor to be able to relate more to my patients with whatever they’re going through whether it just be life or whether it is more of the athletic side of things I feel like it has it’s it’s given me a big Learning lesson that I think I need it and will help me you know in the future as an athlete and as a physician for my patients agreed completely um you mentioned uh how you love would love to treat athletes more in your practice um tell shifting gears a little bit tell me a little bit more about that um I assume you’re you’re you’re we talked about earlier you’re accepting patience want growing your practice um what tell me a little bit more about that and what what gets you excited every day as you see patients and the type of patients that you’d love to see I honestly what gets me excited every day is is really just going going into the office um I really love what I’m doing and I really love these techniques that I have learned um since finishing school uh they really connect the mind body and spirit and one of them is this neuro emotional technique which I got certified in at the end of January and it is such a powerful technique to help get people past just mental blocks it really I think I think as an athlete um a lot of the time our mentality does hold us back um in the way of just just doubting ourselves or being too hard on ourselves um again I’m speaking from my experience um as an athlete but I feel like it can be relatable for other athletes as well um I think the mindset game for a lot of people is is really can really be a roadblock I just I know on my own Journey um over the last couple years it has been for sure because you know I’m not physically where I would like to be um and so I think you know being able to to work with people in general um but work with athletes and help them get to the level that they want to be physically and mentally would be really exciting um for me just because I would love to be able to help them get to exactly where they want to be um you know or if they’re looking to to be just this much better you know I’d love to be the person to help them Reach whatever goals that they have in mind um and with with these techniques I have they they’d be fantastic to help them get past whatever blocks that they might be having that are holding them back and so you know I’d love to see I’d love to get in to more of the athlete world uh because I can just relate to them so much so on many different levels um but you know really just anybody in general the patients that I’ve been seeing so far every day is an adventure every day is every day is new um each patient is treated a little bit differently which is the beauty of our medicine um it’s you know the whole person approach whatever that person needs that day um so each day is different each patient is different and I just I truly love it so much um so yeah but but athletes you know would be would be really fun to see to help them just achieve their goals and get to exactly where they want to be that’s awesome and if somebody wanted to get a hold of you what’s the best way to do that um we have a clinic phone number that they could call or they could email me as well um at Dr Taylor groundbreaking clinic.com cool and I will include all of that in below so people can get a hold of you perfect I’d say calling the Clin phone number um I’m extenstion to if people would want to get a hold of me or sending me an email um and really after that we usually just set up about a 30 minute we call it Discovery sessions um but a free 30 minute chat where I guess you we could we could call do that over the phone if you could come into the office if it’s not too far away just to see the office see where see where appointments would happen um and just talk a little bit about what you’re looking for and I can talk to you more about what I offer in the clinic um and then we could go from there perfect well this has been a very enlightening conversation thank you so much for for joining it’s great to connect yeah you’re so very welcome it’s been so fantastic connecting to you and and talking off things for Aon and doctor