Pathfinders & 22 SAS Selection – British SAS Veteran

Part 2: Ben wanted and needed more challenges, so went into the Pathfinders and shares what “The Cadre” was like to successfully become part of this advance force, and then deployed to Afghanistan in 2008. After sometime with the Pathfinders, Ben went on Selection and joined 22 SAS where he saw out his career, completing just under 12 years within the Special Forces. Lastly, as he transitioned out of the military, Ben created HR4K based in Hereford, UK, which is a veteran owned community hub. Bringing good people together.

Ben joined the Parachute Regiment within the British Army in 1997, and served 23 years across multiple areas including, the Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (REME), Pathfinders (PF), and finishing with the British Special Air Service (SAS), reaching the rank of Staff Sergeant (SSgt).

Chapters:
00:00 – Pathfinders (PF) Cadre
08:12 – Afghanistan 2008
15:08 – SAS Selection
25:00 – SF Rank Structure
29:01 – SAS Assistance
41:29 – HR4K
50:05 – Transition Back to Civilian Life
52:10 – Final Thoughts & Advice

Music created by Gavin Watson

Website: https://militaryveteranspodcast.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/militaryveteranspodcast
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@militaryveteranspodcast
X: https://twitter.com/MilVetPodcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@militaryveteranspodcast
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/military-veterans-podcast

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/military-veterans-podcast/id1531710391
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5PdUZvtsJT6NHwIiSakoAh?si=gpXwr-nST2Ko-JpcdNyq5A
Other Podcast Platforms: https://militaryveteranspodcast.buzzsprout.com/

Contact the Show: https://militaryveteranspodcast.com/contact
Support the Show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MilitaryVeteransPodcast
Buy Host a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/MilVetPodcast

#military #veterans #podcast

[Music] so just on the Pathfinders I heard of it when I was in didn’t really look too much into it I think I saw it on the back of a few magazines or something like that um what what is that selection process is it a selection process what what can you explain more about that yeah sure so it’s it’s called a car as opposed to a selection and um so uh Pathfinders we’ve always had a Pathfinder unit with within the Airborne Brigade um it used to be made up of the guards originally um and then through the sort of 70s 60s 70s and into the 80s it then became each Battalion would take it in turns to be a Pathfinder unit so their patrols patoon would be a path patrols or wcky patoon uh Reg army unit guys call them patrols Batoon um would be their Pathfinder unit and their job would be to essentially jump in ahead of uh the Brigade and establish start lines so start lines where battle would commence um would wcky um Drop Zone sites would D Wy all kinds of things initially obviously the Wy it would be designed to to land and establish the drops zones for the for the wider Brigade and the landing sites and then subsequent taskings would be to then Mark lines of departure for commencing a battle or targets or whatever an intelligence gathering okay um so the selection process is very much built around the Airborne um uh way of soldiering so it’s sort of heavy weighs long distances uh speed marches to get there in in fast time lots of of um soldiering sort of jungle tactic soldiering understanding that you don’t have a lot of ammunition so it’s very much about sort of um avoiding contacts or breaking contact UM peeling out of contact getting out getting away from there and and taking minimum amount of loss and and and um uh expending very minimum amount of ammunition um so the the way this the CER works is you you do like a Fizz face uh which is like an intro just to see how you’re sort of getting on and sort of building your Fitness up along with a load of navigation um and then going into micro navigation so really using sort of short legs up in the bre and beacons um so looking at when I say short legs so you’re Micron naing in sort of clag into [ __ ] weather um and really going down to the detail when it comes to navigating then you then start looking into marches where you then go in pairs um and then eventually go into individual marches and these are timed very much like SAS selection so you’ll be and some of the roots are very similar and then we do an endurance as well at the end of that so we do a night March and then in endurance March which is exactly the same as selections urance March okay it’s Consolidated so while you’re doing that you’re also doing range packages so uh you did so I don’t know I spoke to the guys for a while now about how the CER works but essentially it would be you’d be doing training green skills training and um Fizz and exercise as well as training for the hills and everything else like that you are absolutely Ved yeah yeah yeah before my CER I mean they used to tab onto the training area with all the kit before they go and even start the ranges it was just horrendous and then they’d throw in a few runs here and there there and everything else it’s quite cheeky on the knees and on the legs a lot of it’s hard ground on those roads around bre and where you’re doing these speed marches lots of runaways 10 MERS eight MERS um and then obviously the long stuff over the bre and beacons with the navigation um then it goes into the military skills phase package which again is um goes into those contact drills I talked about breaking contact uh establishing um observation posts uh digging in uh carrying heavy weight and then you go into a tiny little sear package at the end of it what s um your sort of escape and evasion package yeah and um it’s an absolute beast and I think it’s often not really understood by The Wider Brigade and the Army just how hard and hardcore that Carter is a lot of green army brigades um have their own Brigade wky Force which is just made of whoever’s bloody available you know the level of soldiering is quite well it’s quite expansive good to [ __ ] yeah where actually for the Pathfinders you have to do a CER so you’re now being selected to ensure you’re good enough to work with that organization yeah um and then once you’ve done the carder you then go to to your unit and the Pathfinders is wicked you had your own compound you had all the toys you had all the guns and and everything else you didn’t have to do any mess duties you didn’t have to do any guard duties you were treated like an adult nice and it was it was really cool and did you feel like you’d accomplished something again when you did that yeah yeah and I think for me the the the best thing that I felt I ACC was being left alone at that age now at was I 207 28 something like that 28 I needed a be left alone I needed to have responsibility but treated like an adult you know for years I’ve been dancing to someone else’s tun and being on the bus off the bus to the to the latest rer that turns up or the o or the crazy OC or the S major that’s too busy you know trying to get brownie points off the RSM so he’s going to [ __ ] you around doing Armory checks and all these other crap I’ve done that yeah yeah now I wanted me I wanted time for me and I think that was a new level that was a new era in my life you know I’m I then actually met my Ms then um through my best m Joe I met my Ms then and um you know I got my house I got a dog you know I got all those things got landro we got all the things that are now I’m no longer living on the Block you know making pizza slices with this turned over toaster you know or you know what I mean putting boiling the bags in the tumble dryer because I’ve ran out of food um to go on the piss cuz I went on the piss um it was nice you know we had these these things and and I think that’s exactly what I need at the time do so on that do you keep your rank when you go to Pathfinders yes you do uh for us because I was power eded then uh you carry over and you can stay there indefinitely as par Edge some of the other guys who come across from different units or cores um they can only stay there for let’s say three years okay right um they can apply for longer but generally they stay there for three years we see a lot of guys transfer actually a lot of guys who go there and they don’t want to go back to their units they want to stay in the Pathfinders um and actually the one of the guys who was on the wall behind me a guy called Lloyd NE he was in the Pathfinders of me he transferred par Edge and then eventually he went on selection as well with me sadly he’s passed away um uh on a job we were on up the road here um yeah it was great you know you do some really cool things in the PA you do your Dems course you do your free forward Halo course out in San Diego um you do some really good Med stuff you do decent weapon cers you do mobilities stuff with cars and bikes and trucks and everything else it’s a very cool place to be um we went on tour to Afghan here there heric 8 and I went on that tour so Pathfinders have been on the tour before um in 06 when I was actually out in Alamar where we lost the lads I said I actually asked if I could transfer to three par while I was out on that tour just so I could get on the tour um again T par we just missed out on all the exciting stuff it was just the rotation you know sometimes careful what you wish for and um my brother-in-law was in three par then he transferred par Edge so I wanted to be out with him and he was there with a guy called Bri Bud who got the VC and a guy called Jacko um who was also killed um and they had an amazing tour they got to Soldier you know at the level that what we we’d expect and three par did amazing um two par we were kind of yeah you know I won’t disrespect what we did but we achieved nothing um and we lost everything you know we lost those two guys um but I wanted to be on that tour and and I think when my partly coming back and going to the Pathfinders was a chance to actually if I’m going to go on tour I’m going to do some cool [ __ ] so we went to Afghan in uh 08 and one of the most gutting things is um I didn’t go on tour with my section and my patoon that I’d worked really hard with when I was in tupar and I went on tour with the Pathfinders and yeah we had a cheeky tour but we got to do amazing things we were left alone we did some amazing reconnaissance and and and we got into some serious gunfights it was was wicked but I was always gutted that why I trained for so many years to do was to take men into combat I didn’t get a chance to take those men that I trained into combat I remember seeing a guy um a friend of mine and he said oh it’s it’s a shame you’re not here it would have been good if you were all cor on and this one it was would have been he was a good good lad actually yeah there’s a picture of him up on the on the wall and uh and he was right it would have been good we were together we were a team you know but um I just wanted to do something else and Pathfinders was probably my calling um great tour um we were we were very lucky we didn’t lose anyone we had a couple of injuries one guy Scotty Patterson um was blown out of his vehicle and had some serious damage to his leg but we didn’t lose anyone we’re very very lucky you have a stand out moment from that that you can share I mean you don’t have to go into detail of what it was but a stand out moment that you might be able to share um because I’m that’s first tour with Pathfinders right so yeah I well one of the great things was um we we were out out to the East and we were looking we were they were actually talking about putting a um a turbine into the kajaki dam and we we were out east we found this route it was a different route no one even looked at it in the whole time people out been Afghanistan they’d never been out on this other it was just an old trading route that been there for ages and we we proved the route and the work we did allowed us to have a safer passage for this turbine to go up it was a complete cluster [ __ ] um so the the command for this job was given to an RLC CE which was mental um so his job was to be overall command for the delivery of this turbine into kajaki Dam I don’t know why they gave it to an RLC Commander because it makes no sense he has no tactical understanding whatsoever or any knowledge of that he divided us up into three packages the first package was the Pathfinders to go and wrecky the RP but he wanted 24hour separation between the Pathfinders and the um the engineers who came in on the second wave with the Paris he had uh the Paras doing the work of the doing the Bing the engineers were driving the V uh no the the engineers were overseeing it and the RLC guys were driving the vehicles it was just a cluster [ __ ] instead of having pars on the guns yeah RLC guys supporting the and the engineers probably doing the Bing you know that with people who’ve got skill sets they were going to these areas where the ground was dipped so they’d have to flatten it so this uh flatbed carrying the um turbine could get across nice and easy it goes through the Wes but obviously they were there for hours so they’d be eating their food finish their bowl in the bags throw it in the hole that they’re filling in and then the and obviously they’d move on to the next thing then the third wave was actually the RLC grouping that would be carrying the turbine well every time they came to W they’ have to dig up the whole body because there was a metal presence in the ground where people have been eating their RS but also what was happening is cuz they were leaving 12 to 24hour gaps between each um patrol um the locals were coming in and placing IDs so they were now getting IID strikes we end up losing I believe certainly one Oda guy was killed and some RLC guys were quite badly injured for essentially a turbine that is still sat on the side not even installed jeez what the [ __ ] did we achieve out there absolutely nothing yeah um however for us as soldiers it was it was an amazing thing we we got to do what we proved to do our Command was was incompetent our strategic uh planning was terrible um you know and sadly we we we lost those those people or lost one person doing something for for for no reason whatsoever um also kind of highlighted some of the um poor soldiering within the British military we know we were as we came back through the same route um which again you think would be crazy but we did um it was littered there was PES of rubbish everywhere there was it was just white toilet paper everywhere people were taking a [ __ ] and just anywhere there was no I just couldn’t believe that everything you ever trained why are people not collecting their rubbish in bags why is everyone leaving their [ __ ] everywhere why is the white dog pap white paper everywhere from going to the toilet it shows you just how terrible the basics of soldiering really is and how incompetent our Command were um at the time um there’s a couple of things that do stand out for me but I I won’t share with them just just because the nature of some of the individuals there they it was it’s good stuff but I I just certain things I don’t talk about yeah that’s that’s cool um but but they certainly are good memories and certainly um molded me into to who I am and who my friends are yeah now um so I was very lucky Gabriel I was lucky that I um I had a good run in Pathfinders um and My OC and pathfind well the both OC’s at the Pathfinders gave me dispensation to leave Pathfinders after two years to go on selection okay so I’m now in my 30s um so 30 something and um the OC like listen you don’t have to do the three years minimum before going on selection we’re going to let you you know we we like you um we’re going to let you go on at the two-year point and um yeah so I um I applied and went on selection then um end of 2008 to 2009 and it was Third Time Lucky yeah well I I I had had my own dramas then as well so I um I um I went on um I went on to the went into the trees and the sear on my weapon system had gone so these are weapon systems I use all the time in the jungle and they gone so as I let my work in Parts go forward on the Range let my working parts go forward so I put a MAG on working parts go forward a burst was fired even though my change lever was on single shot and so it looked like I basically had an Endy um luckily enough it was proven later that I didn’t and actually all the Sears had gone but at that stage uh the DS couldn’t afford to have someone that they might think would be a safety risk um the OC of the training Squadron and the DS um who are very good friends of mine now always said look we’re going to take you off selection now you know halfway through the jungle we’re going to take you off and um cuz we don’t want to lose you what we’re going to do is going to let you come back on at the Jungle the next jungle um we’re happy that you hadn’t had a safety but obviously if it comes further down the line and we’ve got to start grading and everything else this could be an issue everything you’ve done so far we’re happy with we want to keep you [ __ ] amazing so I end up marking time for about six months waiting for the next course and went back on the next course and and did all right okay so where is the jungle phase for anybody that’s not sure so the Hills so um so selection I mean you can look on this online so I’m not giving anything away but essentially you do a Hills phase which really is more like a screening process to make sure it’s like a health and safety thing to make sure you’re you’re fit enough to go the jungle people always talk about the hills that’s because more people fail the hills than they come off on the jungle generally if you go to the Jungle there’s a high percentage you’re going to pass through the jungle um I mean roughly uh when I was on there 200 people would apply for selection and we probably passed 10 to 15 out of those on the hillers um out of the whole thing but the hills phase you tend to get rid of a high percentage of people a lot of people are going on there they’re dreamers they haven’t trained properly or I mean I remember years ago there was people who go on selection just to get time off work yeah M well because all they do is they’d have six weeks off because their units would let them certainly like engineer units and signals units or whatever or RLC they give them six weeks off training they go and train for six weeks mince around the Hills and then they go on selection and come off on the Eight Mile you know Eight Mile it’s like a standard British Army test it yeah um anyway uh so you do the the hills phase the hills phase is very much about making sure you’re fit enough making sure you can navigate making sure you can administrate yourself then you go to the jungle and that’s where that’s the difference that’s where real selection is okay the jungle that’s where because at any point you can come off you can voluntary withdraw and this is where you know you’re being tested to see what you’re really like um it’s an exercise at the end of the day you wouldn’t Jack on an excise in your own unit so why would you jack there mhm um but um yeah I loved it the jungle I really enjoy the jungle it’s actually once you get used to it it’s actually a really enjoyable place to Soldier it’s hard but actually it’s quite enjoyable uh environment it’s tough but it’s really enjoyable how’ you you been to the Jungle before and never been to Jungle no but you know your the basics you’ve been asked to do is no different to what you do in the bre and beacons the difference is is the fact that it’s just a bit hotter and you got to administrate yourself better yeah um but really if you can do your basic soldering that’s all that’s been asked off you um selection I’ve mentioned this before is selection um doesn’t teach you had a soldier it assumes you were the best soldier before you went on the selection um so this is where people come unstuck that just because you pass election in the regiment doesn’t mean you’re an awesome Soldier it just means you did exactly what you were told through that period of time previously the the selection had always assumed you were the best of your unit before that’s why you’ve been allowed to go forward and that’s carried people for quite a while so what we find is that a lot of guys where we get more people from cores and different units than their soldiering need to be picked up a bit towards the end um and that’s why we often go and do other courses green army type courses once we get into the regiment okay um yeah I obviously been an ex Pathfinder i’ done my jumps course before i’ done Ops so everything was kind of easy uh easier um uh or at least I had experience with it so I didn’t really have any real dramas there I went to the CQB face of the close quartal combat stuff and um that was tricky there’s a lot of pressure on there to make sure you know you’re doing right you’re shooting right um you know your drills the um um where you are in proximity to other people there’s lots going on you know you’re now in a 360 Battlefield you you know um I did some we were doing some AB sailing of one of the buildings in the uh in the training compound it’s about 55 ft something like that and I was AB sailing it’s my third AB sale and um I fell off the top of the building I came off my figure of eight um so as I sort of came up Lent over the side of the building with third descent I realized my carabina had actually popped off my figure of eight and I wasn’t actually on the Rope 55 ft up so was that near Four stories something like that whatever it is I can’t remember um it’s four stories so whatever that is in feet and um yeah I’m sort leaning over as I took up the slack I just went I just started falling on now I’ve got my respirator on body armor everything on a weapon system and I’m just trying to scream you know as I’m falling off this building I’m trying to grab the Rope which was enough just to keep my head up uh to stop myself going head first as I’m fall it by the end of it my body sort of relaxed the ho of my body just relaxed it sort knew it was going to take an impact and I landed on my right leg putting my femur through my right leg so my my femur is now sticking out above my knee in my leg um I had a non-union fracture as well in my ankle um I was rolling around on the floor I was just trying to get people to me you know trying to do something and I sort of looked up they got the respirator off me looked down it was just globules of jelly blood you know it came out of the arteries you know and I managed to get toric on um I got some morph in and eventually they they called in an air Med um to take me to Birmingham and I had some ketamine and a few others for me I was lucky as I said X Pathfinder done my jumps i’ done my uh already done my Escape Innovation phase done all my other bits and pieces so they were happy with my performance so far um that they said look we’re happy to badge you so all my sort of selection um the guys who are on my selection came and visited me in the hospital to give you my berry and I’m now in little cubicle trying on my berry and and it Fu amazing wow and then I managed to um get on some crutches to come down for the badging Day Parade outside the clock tower I’m look I’m all green and you know like now like 70 kilos traod old off my eyeballs um so I’m now joining the regiment with a a broken femur um and um I’m now behind my peer group again so I’m having to wait you know but I I was lucky I made a really good recovery I sort of recovered within a year to 18 months I was back operationally fit within just over a year I was parachuting again I went on tour I went and did a couple of selection uh tabs just to make just for myself just to see if I was still able to do it um and I had some brilliant uh Medics and the regiment was amazing the regiment Association who who we support now uh did so much for us they um they looked after me they looked after my mes they made sure I was hous they made sure i’ had be be a transportation the regiment was phenomenal um but obviously I knew I’m slightly behind my peer group now I have to you know have to pick it up um yeah and then the rest of it was from then on it was just tour after tour and job after job and and the like said before the the more responsibility you have the more you crave more responsibility yeah and I loved it now I believe when you join um the SCS you change rank structure essentially don’t you yeah do you technically start again yeah so you’ve got two options you can Shadow rank so it means you keep your regular Army rank but you then drop the perceived rank you have within the regimen so you go to trooper and you be paid as a a special forces Trooper um but you keep the rank you are in the regular army as long as that pay difference doesn’t change generally it doesn’t because you pay quite well in the regimen um you um you would stay on that decent pay and the idea is some guys certainly if you joined a bit late you might want to keep your Shadow rank so you can um because you might want to go back to the regular army because you’ll find that actually your career path’s better there okay yeah um for me our career was never really important for me it was always about the journey so I was going yeah just s it let’s go back to Trooper um as long as you do well as long as you don’t [ __ ] up um and you’ll you’ll get promoted every two to three years okay and and that’s what happened to me I every two to three years I picked up got a new rank get paid more more responsibility you know up until a point really um where I got my staff sergeant and um I got realized that actually I was just being post I was now at a point where personally I felt I was being posted and promoted not on Merit but because they needed a fill jobs okay and I realized that I I wasn’t going to have the opportunity to have a seat at the table anymore I needed something more I realized that actually some guys who were taking over my old jobs they weren’t going to do as well as I did or put as enough passion in it because really they were posted in and promoted because they were available there are individuals like anything that you know your paths are M mapped you know and people see you through there is a certain amount of almost like nepotism to a certain extent where you know you will ensure that there’s people who follow behind you uh because they’re not going to rock the boat for you um so you do see that and sometimes that’s good sometimes it’s bad um um but um I think I just made the most of it I had a great time I did some really cool [ __ ] um and some of that stuff was mostly down to having the privilege of knowledge of knowing that everything I do I has a strategic effect on government policy you’re working at that level you know you’re literally I remember being on I think was Cameron and Obama’s bloody reading list to talk about going into some country um an invasion into a country you know that’s the level you’re kind of working at which is amazing I mean where could you ever get that uh you know um I remember going down to meet my parents my misses for a cup of coffee and I had to had to shoot off for about an hour to go and move satellites to go and look at the wake at the back of a boat going into some [ __ ] Old Country so I could track it and then I came back to finish off another brew and to sit down and have a conversation with them you know you just you do these amazing things yeah yeah and eventually they become very very normal um you work with some amazing people and you do some very very clandestine um things and it’s just [ __ ] normal this is like you know it’s is gangster [ __ ] this is absolutely rock and roll um and I think you just got to enjoy it while you do it so how long was you there in total uh just short 12 years 12 years and I know you can’t go into detail no but is there an experience you can share not in detail but as an overview um maybe one that stands out uh or one that you thought this is this is what I knew I could be part of this is what I knew was the respons ability that kind of stuff you know cuz you’re always pushing for more aren’t you yeah um is there anything you can share um well I I suppose I kind of said it just a second ago without going into it’s quite difficult to to pinpoint it but you know to consolidate all of those experiences is is one thing that’s kind of cool is I remember going back with a green army battle group and I was a liaison officer with a a green army Army battle group and I’d only been in a few years couple of years maybe and I remember going into a battle group uh briefing and I was sitting there watching it looking at the planning and it was it was ridiculous really I met up with the it was the um can’t remember which rifles it is there one that used to be the dev and dorsets nice guys and I remember getting them all in and um I said listen guys what I want you to I was as I was working with them it’s like the first time I’ve been in daylight you know I only work at night normally and uh I said listen guys what I’d like you to do is show me your drills and skills on how you make room entry and how you do compounds so when we go out on the ground the next few days we can all make sure everyone’s going to be safe and everyone’s going to be okay so um they show me this drill and I don’t know who made up this drill but it was just ridiculous whatever they were being taught at op tag or whatever it is down at high than lid it was ridiculous it’s going to get people killed so I said guys this is how we should do room drills This Is How We Do room entry this is how we do this and this is how we can do the ladder men and everything else and then I said listen guys if if [ __ ] goes down tomorrow in the next couple of days you call it into me first we don’t go calling your headshed or reporting on the net or anything else like that because there’s a culture of of you being guilty before proven innocent it’s we know this where the rmps had pushed the red card be or the the white card before um the white card is actually a very good bit of Kit if you know how to use it properly and and obviously that’s your Rules of Engagement card for anyone who doesn’t know I said listen I know for well that if you’re likely to be involved in something it’s for a legitimate reason you had your reasons for doing that but what I want you to do is let me know first let’s look at the situation before you start reporting to headed because most of your headshed have never been on an operational tour before there was a number of headshed on that tour who literally there to get medals they’d been working in Abby Woods or wherever and they literally a tour came up let’s jump on the back of it so you’re now being commanded by people who’ve got zero operational experience commanding young boys and girls so brought them in had this discussion for everyone from sergeant and below and then we went on the battle group orders afterwards and they turned around and said right okay this is plan this has anyone got any questions SF have you guys got any questions I said no sir if if we have we’ll we’ll talk offline I’m not going to embarrass the man or say something there you know that’s not what you should do you should have the respect of of knowing the audience but the only question I was going to ask is exactly what all the sergeants and the corporals and the L school was going to ask you know you know like what’s your CER plan what’s your you know all these questions that we normally have and it was the right thing to do is talk offline but what what was amazing was this is where you see the difference between when you were a Corporal or a sergeant in the regular army going to these briefs getting spoken to by General melted with some [ __ ] crazy ass plan that’s going to achieve [ __ ] all in the long run and now I’m in a position to have change now I’m in a position to go no that’s bloody stupid but to bring it back we went on the ground and um we were in a position where um a Dicker was seen someone laying an IED and um it came over there it said right we’ve there’s a guy lying an ID um he’s a clear direct threat to life um you know you have permission to open uh to engage him at the time we were kind of the whole multiple I was with we were kind of chilling out and and everyone I was thinking to this young lad who was like a sharpshooter I said oh uh what’s that then he said oh it’s our new Sharpshooter rifle and it’s been zeroed at 25 meters in the in the compound I so I’m having a look at this weapon system and then it came over that right there he is there’s the this guy terrorist digging in the ID or whatever you know I like well I’ve got this rifle so went to go and take a pop shot I missed him can you imagine like the one SF guy in the room full of these young soldiers and I miss him the whole of this unit is looking at this one me it was like this target was 400 m uh he was he was actually walking at the time so he’s walking away at an angle 400 m away and I’m standing unsupported with a weapon that’s over my uh 0 to 25 M there’s no [ __ ] excuse because it’s still me with a weapon system and I should have dropped him because I’m going to be this SF guy I just turned around to the lads I was like that’s not the first guy I’ve ever missed you know I mean probably not going to be the last so um I gave the weapon back and the guy came back around the corner this time he was on his bike with his weapon systems and everything else the whole multiple had now engaged on him everyone’s engaged everyone and he’s still missing him it was like something yeah and they brought in um um some an ah and they missed him again with a Hellfire the guy was it must have been his lucky day I tell you but it doesn’t matter CU that one SAS guy missed you know so anyway got back to the compound uh the next day um everyone was okay so it was good success in my eyes got back to the compound I’m having a I’m having a shower in this thing and this lad walks up goes you’re right there Ben are you uh are you washing away your shame I like you bastard fing brilliant honestly I was like mate oh how embarrassing is that but at the same time I think if I was a bit of a dick they wouldn’t have said [ __ ] all yeah but the fact that he just came up with that you washing away your shame I was like what about all the crap you guys did no but just me anyway um these guys fair play to them you know we have it easy our T we are the bad guys bad guy I say that all the time we are the bad guys bad guy we choose our targets we have all the assets we know every SLE every single thing about that Target you know it’s not like this crap we saw on um Panorama about us doing all kinds of random [ __ ] that doesn’t happen everything we do is we study those targets we understand the the the threat picture we understand why that person’s being targeted we know the horrible things those people do and we don’t spend that money and that time and those assets to go on [ __ ] targets these go we we you know this thought and everything else process um and um so we have it easy we have it easy I go back to a bed most mornings after being on a job all night get a few hours I get good food I I can pick up a phone to my M anytime I want you know I’m looked after if I don’t need to be on tour I go I go home you know and I’m working at a level that I know the reason why I do what I do you know I I know everything at such a strategic level I understand why we’re doing things I see the bigger picture um and I’m able to process everything we do I understand that I can go on this job and there’s a good chance might lose someone I understand that I’m going to go on this job and we will uh you know the bad guys will be gone we know this my head is so clear because of the knowledge and the information where these poor guys like those Lads and lasses they’re they’re [ __ ] in white paper bags living in fobs drinking out crappy little water bowls luckily if they get something decent but they’re having the time of their lives at the same time you know they’re they’re doing what they join to do uh um so when we left well when I got picked up I was on the hls uh the hel Landing site within the compound I said to my guys said do us a favor fill up the Hilo with cans of coke and everything else and bits and kit so as the Hilo was coming in I made sure that they had something before we left I left I said to them I said uh listen guys the the where the Hilo was it was on the 25 M range and I said look while we’re here does anyone want to just do any quick drills they went do you want to work work on your Marksmanship principles instead Ben you [ __ ] little bastards so anyway I got picked up they got loads of coke and and uh pop and everything else like that which is cool and kitten equipment you know buy stuff that we had um so the privilege now this was a rifles unit I’m an ex paratrooper but the privilege of being out on the ground with these guys was unbelievable I know the drills that we taught them for those room entry in those room save lives I spoke to a couple of guys a little while later who use those drills and those drills definitely save lives so that is in that was probably my most proudest moment of being in UK Special Forces is the fact that I was in a position to not only influence and um support them and give them the drills and skills they need which save lives but also have in their back when they were confronted with you know dread melted and his [ __ ] crazy crack smoking plans yeah that’s [ __ ] awesome that’s why I joined you know that that’s what made the real difference um you know and then finally um one of the bigger the better things as well uh for for being in the special force that certainly with the SAS um some other units might be a bit different certainly with the SS if something happens to a British soldier everything within Special Forces gets turned on to support that that um uh British soldier so for example British soldier gets kidnapped all our all our efforts and assets go on to that a British soldier gets killed all our efforts and assets go on to finding who did it and to bringing them to justice was [ __ ] epic you know you know for well that we are working in the background tirelessly to deliver the head of that person person who who who killed those soldiers and to go back to those units with something to say look we’ve done it you know we’ve got them MH that’s [ __ ] brilliant you know forget this big strategic stuff forget this oh we’ve now done this we’ve done that oh you know new person’s in power and whatever that’s all well and good but actually at Grassroots and on the the ground level of having that effect that’s [ __ ] amazing you know that’s that’s kind of what what it was all about yeah sounds like as a very proud moment of your career yeah but like you said it it it came to an end so what was that decision um what why did that come to an end was it an end of your time was you retiring or was it something else um I I said I’ve I’ve always wanted something more I wanted I’ve always wanted to create um in the background while I was still serving I was running I was doing a bit of procurement I was doing some I was designing kitten equipment you know belt kit stuff like that I’m a bit of a kit pervert I suppose kit pest um so um I was running a business in the background I was enjoying it it was something different um and I started to find it more interesting more enjoyable than what I was doing for a living um as I said I was no longer getting into those jobs where I had those responsibility no longer felt valued as an individual I realized I was part of a bigger thing um we actually now owning something like a business means that every decision I make is my decision every outcome is my decision um so I started off uh selling uh well I did as I said I started doing designing kit and bit of kitten equipment I designed some belt kit for train Squadron um and then I started importing um American Veteran brands like Black Rifle coffee zero Fox Dr Rogue American Apparel uh 30 seconds out Etc and I started importing these products out of my garage on the pads State and then selling them online so I did that um with some success because it was really booming back in sort 2016 2017 um we called ourselves HR 4K um we wanted something that had some links to Herford and what we did but obviously conscious we were serving at the time so I didn’t really want to you know um get myself in the [ __ ] um and then work found out and actually were uh the regiment was actually very um proit really they like the idea that people have an entrepreneurial mindset and actually as long as there’s is there’s uh it’s not a conflict of interest then actually it’s very much promoted and they like the idea that we they’ve got individuals who can think outside the box um a term I use a lot which you’ve heard me say is the Tradesman Craftsman analogy the Tradesman analogy of there’s individuals who do as they’re told they turn up at work they’re great at giving lessons and following structure but the regiment needs Craftsman the regiment needs people who can work on a black economy people who yes you’ve got cash but you don’t necessarily are very well resourced how do you have those people who can literally go to some [ __ ] and make [ __ ] happen that’s what they need they need dirty horrible people yeah nearly nearly got me and um so they need those people um and that’s what I was delivering and and even if I didn’t have that Outlook directly in some of the work I could still get I could still release that in what I was doing with the business um so we we did that for a while but um obviously with the growth of online and everyone uh setting up these veteran businesses I struggled G because because um essentially um there are a lot of people out there pretending to be people like me and having a veteran brand that’s Special Forces related is very sexy it’s very appealing we see it now I mean there’s watch companies out there that are kind of suggesting that they’re their SF or there is clothing companies and t-shirt apparel companies that suggesting but actually they’d probably do better if they just promoted what they’re about there’s more substance in that there’s more real um it’s more true you know um so with all this going online and and obviously we couldn’t really come out with who we were what we thought we’d do is we’d go to bricks and mortar into this place which is where you are now into HR 4K you can’t lie about this this is here it’s physical you know you can’t hide on the internet pretending you’re something that you’re not um and I’ve always said as we we promote veteran Brands we promote people it’s in our interest for people to start their own businesses it’s in our interest to keep that market alive um so I want people to do it but I want people to be original I want people to be true to who they are and I don’t like the fact that they’re essentially wal admitting pretending to be something they’re not when actually if they’re just true to who they are they could be far more successful um and they’ve got longevity in that and everything else that’s cool you know I just want to ask about the name so um yeah how did you come up with that and and what’s does it does it stand for in particular so this is an absolute copout soly so hr4 is the postcode of my old place and um the K is it’s an anagram of 4 kilm an hour which is the speed at which um a candidate going on uksf selection has to March over the Breen beacons okay so hr4 being the post code for camp and the regiment and then U 4 kilm an hour which is a speed so that’s the signals would do 3 kilm an hour um and some other selections would do lessons but we we’re synonymous for doing four colums an hour with kit um but yeah as um what we like to do now and this is this is I said at the start this is a network in community Hub everything we do here is about promoting um people from across different demographics what I don’t want to do is create another institution I’ve left left an institution what I want to do is create a community space where people from different backgrounds military police civilians whatever don’t care come in who have a similar ethos which is contribution family Etc and they could come in and they could essentially meet new people meet up here potentially get people jobs potentially open up opportunities for themselves and good [ __ ] falls out of it you do that and good [ __ ] happens we have people who come near who’ve owned their own Banks we have people who run little Etsy companies we’ve it was only a couple of weeks ago go we got 32 people jobs that’s [ __ ] amazing yeah yeah you know um we do support uh Wellness here as you know we’ve got a gym across the road with ground Hammer um we create our own apparel here with a with a brandh house with qms London which is again across the road and our staff are trained in mental health um mental awareness but that’s purely from a point of being aware of individuals coming in what we didn’t want to do is create a veteran dripping drop in station mhm MH we wanted people to come in use it for what it is which is essentially escapism come in meet up with your mates come and watch a band when we got a band on when we’ve got an event like bikes booze burgs and Tattoos you could literally ride your motorbike through the front door park it up grab a cup of coffee have a gameer pool you’re a [ __ ] Rockstar yeah you know that’s what this place is about um and it just gets people um but it’s you know it is gets people a chance to escape from what’s normal you know what daily life is um but also gives them somewhere that’s familiar you come in here it’s relaxed it’s chilled there’s elements in the place that you can you can identify with you know as you can see from the decor it’s very sort of Music art you know there’s a bit of military you know there we’ got Tattoo Studio there’s [ __ ] that we like yeah yeah yeah you know and it is really cool because even the lights above the pool table uh that’s pretty cool yeah yeah uh people can come here and look at that if they want to yeah we got some cool things going back so lights on the pool table we’ve actually got uh one of the tables in here is the front door of the bats building at the but Battle of mbat where 9 SS guys held off 300 terrorists we’ve got that in here that’s cool we’ve got a um a prop from a SE King as a table we’ve got a door from a c C130 yeah there’s lots of really cool sh it is it is really cool um just need heating when it’s minus 2 outside that’s all yeah yeah it’s a bit fresh in it uh but that’s really cool you created this and did that help your transition out because you left after 23 years it was 23 wasn’t it did it help you with that transition yeah I but I think it’s also a little bit of a cop out at the same time because um I thought about this the other day I don’t know if I have really I’ve been quite lucky because I the thing that we take away from the military we all agree as the people we met there MH y our experiences may vary depending on what job you did or how long your career was or what you got up to but ultimately something we all share is those relationships that we build while we’re in there and having this place means that I’m still connected to those relationships is still somewhere for people to come and meet me or I meet them we still have the events here we still do stuff here not just ex regimen stuff but also you know green army stuff we’ve got the rifles who come down and do some training days here um obviously we’ve got a lot of guys who who use the gym over there from the Paras and and then we have piss ups and reunions and parties here so transition I’ve had the softest transition you could possibly have MH without staying inside the wire okay you’ve got guys who say they get out they don’t really get out what they do is go work for a civy company that’s stuck in Camp you know you haven’t really you’ve just gone you’ve got out with more freedom and a bit more money you’re still inside the wire where here I suppose I I’m lucky it’s a bit of a cop out where however I was aware of my transition years before I left and that’s probably why I started the business I knew I wanted something I knew I had to have something for when I left because I didn’t really have a qualification um you know for what I did in the military yes there’s managerial side and um project managing Etc that you could take away from that um but ultimately there was nothing that I wanted to do I’m sick of working for someone else I wanted to dictate what I did you know yeah that’s fair that’s fair well Ben I think that does bring us up to date um was there anything from your time in the military that we didn’t get to mention um or do you feel like you’ve you’ve covered everything you want to yeah I think I’ve covered everything yeah yeah cool cool well we do have this moment in the podcast where we can get some advice from yourself okay um so the first area scratching the barrel here then it’ll be fine you’ll be good you’ll be good but the first bit of advice would be for people that are thinking of joining the military um doesn’t have to be the Army um but the military as a whole any advice for those people yeah um I think you’ve got to have your own reason for why you joined um I think you have to try and have um what your plan is so what are you looking to join and what would be your exit strategy what is your what’s your long-term goal I think if you’ve got that you’ve got a rough direction of travel when you get in um if you want to be have a career within a certain organization that’s great but again that’s your plan so I think you people should have some form of loose plan or a trajectory they want to do I think also people should realize that once you are getting in on go in uh you shouldn’t be dictated to by the powers that be you should always remember that the Army is fluid enough that you can make your own career decisions anyone who blames the army for why they [ __ ] up is a Lie the are you can make your own way through you just have to be strong enough to do that that’s fair enough I’ve got a Bonus one that I’m going to ask I’ve not asked this to anybody else but have you got any advice for people that want to join once they’re in for a bit of time uh want to join the SF and maybe go down that route any advice for those people uh yeah again uh so so obviously UK special force has broken up into different branches you’ve got obviously the SC the SBS there’s a b in there for a reason uh you’ve got um sfsg and you’ve got srr um and then there are a couple of other Affiliates within that I think you have to again decide what you want to be and why you want to join those organizations some people say they want to join srr because they want to be in SF well srr doesn’t really do SF it’s a surveillance reconnaissance unit that uses VAP bespoke skills to do what they do if you want to be an operator a shooter then you want to be in the SAS or the SPs if you enjoy green and also a links within uh uksf then sfsg is what you want to do there are Stepping Stones I would say I’d certainly say um don’t be afraid to apply for sfsg or Pathfinders before you go on selection um if you do go into selection don’t be afraid to think that actually this might not be for me maybe I should look at one of the other branches um so for example we get many people who’ve joined srr but then have decided that’s not for them mhm you know and actually may want to go on selection uh for 2 two um but I think you really have to choose what you want to do okay and be clear that these are different units just because they’re classed under the SF umbrella not necessarily they do what you think they do fair enough yeah it does make sense yeah yeah that’s really cool advice um the final bit of advice would be for people that are veterans be that about to transition out or maybe people that have been out for a little while any advice for those uh yeah you’re not the first person to do it so it’s you know um there’s a massive veteran support network out there um you’ve got everything from your own associations your resettlement plages you’ve got government veteran associations you’ve got organizations and even places like this there’s always a network but what I would say is that um the military is just a small part of your life yes it has absolutely created the Beast that you are because it’s got you at your most um influential point in your lives but ultimately it’s not the end all you should think about having a whole new career a whole new life and get to do what everything else you really want to do I’d also say be careful you don’t become a career veteran I think there are many people that think that when they leave that the society owes them a debt there are a lot of people who believe that oh civies don’t get me they haven’t got a clue that’s [ __ ] civies don’t know you [ __ ] all you know the fact is they appreciate your service but you chose to join the military you chose to go to combat that’s why you there they don’t owe you anything actually it’s important for you to transition into Civ Street and you to adjust to become a civilian not civilians to adjust that you’re coming into there does that make yeah and and I think that’s the way to look at it if you if you see it from that point of view then ultimately what you will do is transition back into society yeah and that’s what you ultimately need to do yeah that’s cool advice and and you’re right yeah um so thanks for for sharing that but um but yeah Ben that has brought us up to the date um how was it for you coming on the show I know you’ve done a few of these before but how is it coming on to this show yeah it’s great uh questions are nice and steady I think you’re quite control uh you’re quite good control on it because I do tend to ramble on a little bit go down some rabbit holes um no was good thank you very much really appreciate good questions thank you very much and and thank you for for sharing all that you have uh from your time in um and also some of your time you are you’re are a busy guy so thank you for for giving up some of your time for the show it’s been really cool you’re welcome and lastly I say this to all my guests thank you for your service yeah and thank you for yours no problem thanks very much cheers man we good thank you this has been military veterans podcast out [Music]