Bob Dobbs and guests explore the interplay of music and alchemy as mediums of preserving and transmitting esoteric knowledge. They examine how figures like Frank Zappa, Fulcanelli, and Rabelais have kept alive the tradition of embedding secret messages and meanings within their art for those initiated in their symbolic language.
Bob Dobbs is a Zappa researcher and McLuhan scholar. He is joined by regular contributors Roxana Flores Larrainzar and Bert Hill.
Recorded January 23, 2016
00:00:00 – Introduction
00:01:10 – Fulcanelli and Music
The mysterious figure Fulcanelli, an alchemist whose influence reached the counterculture of Zappa’s era.
00:04:42 – Zappa’s Guitar Technique
Zappa’s unique guitar playing, noting he uses the entire fretboard and how his playing style seems to emulate his speaking cadence.
00:09:10 – Cathedral Acoustics and Alchemy
Knowledge encoded in cathedral architecture.
00:22:00 – Symbolism in Literature and Architecture
Symbolism hidden in medieval cathedrals, Fulcanelli’s work, Leonardo da Vinci, Marguerite of Navarre, and Nostradamus.
00:31:00 – Rabelais, Nostradamus and Alchemy
Allegories in literature like the works of Rabelais, and the notion of the ‘language of the birds’.
00:35:00 – Magnesium and Alchemy
Roxy introduces an idea relating magnesium to various concepts such as love, the opus magnus, and the role it plays in alchemy and secret knowledge.
00:50:18 – The Opus Magnus
Opus Magnus (Great Work) and how it influences the evolution of arts, crafts, and science.
00:54:08 – Renaissance Symbols
The Renaissance, Botticelli and Leonardo da Vinci.
01:03:15 – The Quest for Perfection
Responsibilities of alchemists and aristocrats in pursuing the ideal, harmonious world.
01:17:03 – Historical Anecdotes and Hidden Knowledge
Lineage and roles of different European aristocracies. Encoded information in symbols, like coats of arms.
01:36:25 – Cryptic language in James Joyce’s work
Playful manipulation of language in Joyce’s work.
01:43:04 – Filippo Brunelleschi
Filippo Brunelleschi, the Renaissance architect, on the construction of the Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore.
01:55:02 – Esoteric Ideas
Interactions with esoteric teachers and information sources.
01:59:08 – Opus Magnum and Satire
“Opus Magnum,” the great work, the modern version being humor and satire.
02:27:13 – Zappa’s Influences
Zappa’s favorite musicians and how these influences impacted his work.
02:50:16 – Freak Out Album Annotations
Liner notes and photographs in Frank Zappa’s “Freak Out!” album.
02:57:45 – Influence of Rock on Youth
Role of rock music in American youth culture while traditional structures like family, religion, and politics lose influence.
03:01:30 – The Melancholy of Phil Ochs
The struggles of folk musician Phil Ochs, his descent into depression, and how his music reflects the death of the “old concept” of America.
03:08:10 – Violence as an Agent of Change
The role of violence in social and political change.
03:10:07 – Prospects for Youth
Potential for the younger generation to effect change, moving away from the path laid out by their parents.
03:17:21 – Seeking Social and Political Change
The effectiveness of the current political system in effecting change and the importance of fostering a global community mindset.
03:21:54 – Rock as a Social Movement
How rock music and the underground press are used by the youth as a way to create an identity and build a sense of belonging to a movement.
03:25:07 – Supplements and Financial Conspiracy
Supplements and regulation, with criticizing a PBS special on supplements and safety.
03:44:57 – Beatles Influence
Beatles songs, indicating a shared cultural context among the speakers and a connection to their childhood musical influences.
03:46:41 – Revolution and Social Change
Revolution and social change. John Cage and Frank Zappa are cited.
03:50:32 – Contemporary Leadership
Societal issues of the time, criticizing leaders for excluding large parts of the population and generating myths and misunderstandings.
04:10:21 – Film and Sound Techniques
Discussion about the making of a movie and the technical aspects related to sound, particularly the use of sync and wild sound.
04:16:35 – Concert Experience
Participants recall past concert experiences.
04:19:00 – Music Reception and Artist Impact
Artists’ influence on culture and how profound work is not always appreciated.
04:22:00 – Music as an Artistic and Destructive Force
The duality of music’s potential as both a healing art form and a destructive force, possibly foreshadowing the idea of sonic weapons.
04:44:00 – Uncle Meat’s Plot
Detailed recount of the plot within Frank Zappa’s project “Uncle Meat,” which includes discussions of secret government projects, mutant monsters, and the effects of sound on matter.
Ah, here it is. It’s called, But, Who Was Fulcanelli? Okay, we got it. All right, so I will, and this is from 1982. Zappa put out three guitar albums, just instrumental guitar music that he’d recorded in studios and concerts. And so this is disc two of three discs. So Bert, we’re going to play this and then it’s only 2.49 and then Kansas which is something else. I think it’s a little longer. Let me just put this back into order. All right, so are we ready? We are now officially starting the Zappa portion of the program as iON would say. So everybody’s muted. This is called Butler’s Fields. Yes, everybody wrap their force fields and bring your Butler force flings over to prop you up. Make sure the pillows are nice and comfortable. You got your tea and sandwiches. And we will now do Butler’s Fields. Who was spoken of? Butler’s Fields. Who was spoken of? You got your tea and sandwiches and we will now do, but who was Fulcinelli? But who was Fulcinelli? Like someone was talking to Frank. Now you can read about him in that book that came out in the late 60s called The Morning of the Magicians. There’s a section on Fulcinelli. And so that’d be around the time Frank would have heard about it maybe because that book was popular in the counterculture. So Frank, this person goes on about Fulcinelli, I’m imagining, and then Frank goes, yeah, but who was Fulcinelli? It’s Frank’s question. Okay, I couldn’t catch a hook in there, Roxy. Did you hear any hooks? You know, successful song has to have a hook. What do you mean a hook? It’s usually a chorus or a refrain or a phrase. No, it’s a fixed chorus with the guitar. Beg your pardon? Yes. Let me mute this down. I… Yes, go ahead. Yes, he’s talking. He’s making patterns. Good point. Is he talking fast? Music for musicians is not like a simple melody that he repeats. It’s a discourse that is a little more complex than the usual melody. I like your idea of he’s talking. Now, is he talking fast? Is it a fast conversation? Well, I suppose that’s how he would talk. Yeah. Yeah. It does have the cadence of his voice. Oh, that’s neat. I can’t say I hear that. Because when you listen to his interviews or when you listen to you channeling him through the evergreens, his cadence of the way he talks is kind of notable. Is that right? Okay. And it’s similar to some of these. Can you imitate it? Oh. Well, it’s like, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. Like it kind of always goes down. Some of the intervals are similar, it’s like, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. Like it kind of always goes down. Some of the intervals are similar, it seems like. Right. That’s interesting. I think I get that. Roxy, you’re in the wrong. Yeah, you can hear that in the guitar. Yeah, Roxy analyzes his vocal cadences. Do you agree with Alyssa and Roxy? Da da da, and then it goes down. Yes. Yes. Let’s see. What else to say about that? Bob, it also sounds like when he plays that lead in that clip there, he’s playing up in the upper part of the fret of the guitar, his lead. Most of the guys now or before, after Frank always went to the lower part like Hendrix and everything, but his lead guitar goes all over the place. It sounds like he’s using the upper frets of the guitar Yeah, when he’s doing right for me to me. I haven’t tried to play a guitar. It sounds like There you never played the guitar I just had it right hands. I have oh, so you know the guitar a little bit. Yeah, Roxy. Go ahead. Yeah Yes, I think the interest of Sapphire and Fulcanelli was two things. Well, two of the main topics that Fulcanelli was talking about in his books was this big opus magnus that some groups were trying to keep all this knowledge since Egypt. And they will write it in the stone in the cathedrals. That’s the mystery of the cathedrals, the first book. And the second is called the type of buildings with these inscriptions like some board. And these books were made in the 20s. And many people got interested in this type of esoteric knowledge and trying to understand all these symbols in called the green language or the language of the birds which is the type of language that would communicate with animals, with angels, with anything. And they say that’s the language of Adam in the Garden. And the cathedrals were mainly like a big resonance box that were built to amplify sound and to make you look up. to amplify sound and to make you look up. And they were not the books of stone, but really encyclopedia of everything what the people knew. Like they will take 200 years or more to construct one. And there are many anomalies. Like they will think they will not even know how they are going to solve a problem. They started in the 12th century to construct like crazy and there are these glass windows. Some look like thematic. There are these what? I missed that word. There are… What? Nine needed. The big glass windows. Yes. Many look like thematic geometries, you know, the figures that deal with sound. Yeah. And so one may ask themselves what do they really knew about the frequencies and the sounds because also the big pyramid in the Chamber of the king, where the king was to go to the sky, is also like a big resonating box. And there have been people that made recordings inside. And it’s very interesting that they had this awareness of the sound properties of the acoustics of the buildings. That was like a big thing. And I suppose that was the thing that interest Zappa on this Fulcanelli. The thing that he was talking about, the music and the sound and the language of the birds, that is like iON says, a type of music. So you’re saying that Falconelli was a… If you hear that… Sometimes the song also sounds a little like birds, like… Yeah, yeah. But are you saying that… Sometimes the soul also sounds a little like birds, like, boop, boop, boop. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. But I prefer to call it a bird’s nest. Are you saying that Fulcinelli was a philosopher of sound? Not really, but it is said that alchemists had a wider knowledge of what we think people knew in the Middle Ages or in the Renaissance. And like we are seeing now with the whole Chambord thing is that they, yeah, some ascended ones retrieve and knew a lot of things because another of the stories about Fulcanelli, one of his disciples, Eugene Cancelier, said that he met him in the 50s and also in the 30s. In the 30s, also in the 30s, in the 30s, Fulcanier wanted to warn the atomic scientists in France to stop the experiments because they say the alchemists knew about these force fields and he’s talking about force fields like I am. And in the 50s he said he met him once more and he had grown younger and he was also androgynous like the type of figures Leonardo da Vinci will always paint the angels, Saint John, even La Mona Lisa are very androgynous. And he says he looked like that and younger. I suppose Zappa would be interested in these aspects of what he was saying about the music and the acoustics of the cathedrals. So Falconelli was writing about medieval cathedrals and Egypt stuff and noticing and commenting on the boxes. Is that what you just said? Well, he was writing about the whole symbols hidden in the cathedrals. He said it was like a book of stone, but it’s more than a book. It’s really like an encyclopedia of the time they were built because, for example, in the glass windows in Notre Dame, some went broken during the Second World War and they tried to make them to repair the glasses again and they could never get the same colors, the blues and the reds. And there is one that survived. That they say the glass is not transparent. And even in the night, it’s like as if the glass captures the light like a led or something. And the night they shine and the other glasses that were repaired, you don’t see anything if there is no sunlight, but these older ones, they still shine and they could never reproduce that. And even I saw a program from the French television in the 60s. There was a guy hypnotizing the people that make the glasses to make them go back to the 12th century and retrieve these techniques. I don’t know if they somehow had any success but I found that very interesting because there are these type of anomalies that made me think of the crops like you say scientists go and look what is inside and they don’t find anything. Right. But it’s like the non-physical working with this person and helping the person create this anomalies. And many things, we see them and we don’t even think how they did it because they didn’t have the tools we have, the machinery. It’s tons of stone that had to get up very high. And there are some things that people, even the engineers now wonder how did they did it because in many cases the stones don’t have any mortar, it’s just the tension that holds everything together. And the nations, the French nations, many said that they knew these things from Egypt, like in many groups of, I think in German, the craftsmen. They would pass this type of knowledge to some initiates. And it was in the ceramics, in the glasses, in the metal, in the sculpting of stone, and many different aspects that had to do with the chemistry of the alchemy. And one of the most important was the work with the fire, the ovens. Because for some of their chemistry, they had to control the fire. And there is a lot of solutions to the fire. For example, the motto of King Frank was, Nuit Fisco et Extinguo, and that means I feed the good fire and stop the bad one. And also the salamander was a symbol like the lions and the eagles of fire. And it’s very funny because Fulcan is the god of the volcanoes of fire and then it means rings. So Fulcanelli actually means like ring of fire. That’s another thing that I have been talking about. Yeah. And… Did you say the word? I don’t know, it’s… Hmm? Did you say the word? Vulcan. Vulcan. Oh, Vulcan, for Vulcanelli is… Yeah, like Oh, Vulcan for Vulcanelli is… Yeah, like volcano, Vulcan. Oh, okay, Vulcan. And also, I always ask you to play Vestal Goodman and the Vestals were the Priestess of the Fire. Right. They will like get the oracles by reading or listening to the fire. That’s the name of the favorite singer of I am dumb. The best of. Yes, yes, good point. She fits into the system. Her name fits the system. Yes, and that’s the amazing thing with all these hints that we get in many things. But the problem is, like Fulcanelli said, you won’t get everything in the books, in the book of stone, or with the teachers, or going to the different places and studying the buildings and all the symbols. There is the thing that’s a little difficult that has to somehow communicate with you, and that can be in dreams or some intuition, whatever. And people have been trying to encrypt all the system of cathedrals and castles like Fulcinelli and have all these wild theories what that means, what they were built and blah, blah, blah, blah, and what is the magnesotropes and what are they trying to achieve. But the moving thing is that up to now with Dion, we know what all these things really mean. And it’s like with the Bible, the Revelation and the Emerald Tablets, he explained what it really means and now he’s going also into this system of encyclopedias of stone. And it was not only like, the cathedrals and then the castles. It’s also the alignments, like I mentioned also the ley lines. It’s like, it’s really impressive how these things are, the proportions of things and how they connect and how they’re aligned. It’s also in the decorations of the places and the art and the gardens. So it was put everywhere. Like in Shambor. Right. You’re saying one of Fucanelli’s books was called The Book of Stone, right? No, one was The Mystery of the Cathedrals, and that book book he explained how the cathedrals are like a book of stone where people put their knowledge. Yeah, because today iON at one point made a big deal out of the word stone as if he knew that we were going to talk about stone. The stone is the thing. It’s what the philosophers are looking for. Right, now did you… They are looking for… Right, the philosopher stone. Did you say, mention this in your questions with iON? Did you mention the book of stone phrase before he mentioned stone later? No, I don’t think so. Not sure. Yeah, no because iON knows that stone is a theme. He knew today stone theme, so he emphasized it. Just wanted to say that. Yes, because I wanted to say many things, and he wouldn’t stop me, so I was like, wow. You screeched your heart. But you have to remember that you don’t want to list off too much with iON, because he’s thinking of people who are listening, and they tune out. iON is always trying to be an effective communicator to a guaranteed or assumed audience. So he will stop you, and you have to go with that. I mean, it’s very impressive what you list off, but it doesn’t lead to a question or it scatters iON’s answer. or it scatters ions answer. So anyways, we’ll improve next time. So Falconelli is interested in this history and it sounds like he’s interested in acoustic space and that would definitely interview Zappa. And Zappa, his piano, the voices are talking inside the piano like the box they found in the Egyptian pyramid. Is that what they did? They found a box that worked with sound? No, the chamber of the king, it’s also like a very special resonating box. Hmm. And, yeah, the thing is, it was empty and it was never a tomb. It was never what? It was very typical. Never what? It was never what? Like a tomb. A tomb, T-O-M-B. Tomb, a place to. It was not a tomb is what you’re saying. It was an active lab, laboratory. Yeah. When you listen to Lumpy Gravy back in 67, 68, some of the voices would say drums are very noisy, it’s hard to hide. Zappa would have the voices describing acoustic space in the box, inside the drum, inside the piano, that was a theme. It seemed that way to me, because McLuhan was talking about acoustic space. But what you’re describing is the effect that Lumpy Gravy had for me when we listened to it. He puts you inside a box and you’re listening to these voices. What? Someone say something. Wow, but no, he was moving to, into the acoustic and the visual spaces. Yes, from a tactile position, I’d say. The acoustic. He actually was operating from a tactile position. Yeah. Right, and operating from a tactile position. Yeah. Right, and playing with eye and ear. Yeah, the green language, it’s very interesting because he said the real alchemists were the ones that mastered the language, like Reuss or Ravelet. that master the language like Joyce or Cravelet. Many of the hints and the keys that adepts will find in these symbols, many were like games with the words, things that were written in reverse or encoded in a way that it sounds similar or is not the complete word and all the things that Joyce and Rabelais were doing with the language. Fulcanelli was a big admirer of Rabelais and Rabelais was a big admirer of Margarita de Navarra. Margarita de Navarra, who was the sister of Frank the First, was the one that established the… Right. And you know that Zappa… …of Rabelais… Zappa wrote a song. Zappa wrote a song about about Pantagruel or Gargantua. Maybe I can find it. I don’t know. Yeah, he has a Rabelais title in one of his compositions. But, yeah, carry on. You were connecting Marguerite. Yes, one of the things he presents is this language of the birds and how you will, things will connect with the word magnesium, or the root of the word is magnes, that in Greek means lover. That’s why it’s also used as a root of magnet. And this links with the force field, and I found that very, very nice, very beautiful, that the magnesium, that is like the force field, and I found that very nice, very beautiful, that the magnesium that is like the main stone, the white stone, also has this root that means lover, the magnus. And from magnesium come all these words that translate the greatest, like the magnificat, the magnum, and the magic. For example, Ravelet has, For example, Ravele has, I was telling you, in one of the books, I think it’s the fourth, Pantangruel is a big giant and he has to go to an island to look for a plant. And he writes the plant’s name is Pantagruelion. Right. So when I saw that, I was like, whoa. Because he wanted to make an elixir to recover his power. And Raveleia and Nostradamus went together to the school. And that’s the funny thing, that all these people, Lincoln in the back, and all these, the king and Margaret, Nostradamus, Leonardo, Botticelli, Ravele, and the many others are all working together there in these castles and in the courts. Are you saying that Ravele knew Nostradamus? Yeah, they went together to the school. Wow, that’s amazing. And they both had to be protected by Margarita. They were protected. Yes. Yes, so that’s the thing that is the most amazing that in the ways like they were working for Iron Dome doing all this work. And for example, also in the Odyssey, the Argonauts, the Argonauts. Argonauts, yes. Go from the island of Magnesia that really exists. Magnesia. Magnesia, right. They go there to look for the golden lamb. Yeah. I don’t know how to say it in English. The golden fleece. Making this example of the language of the birds. He said, Largotic, the Gothic art comes from the organelles. The art gothic. Right. And then he talks about this story, how they are going to go from the island of Magnesia to look for the golden lamp. So it’s very, yeah, it’s somehow surprising and moving because these are all things that Diane talks about and how these architects are in the Odyssey too, for example, or in the books of Pantagruel. And there is another part in a type of perfect convent and the only rule is that there are no rules and in the entrance it says, like do what you want and the comment is called the lemma. So I think Crowley also, so I think Crowley also, and the comment is called Telema. So, I think Crowley also sort of retreated that the idea of the Telema, do what you want. And like I said, he had no idea what he was doing. But they already had this thing of there are no rules. Because in this perfect place they already had this thing of there are no rules. Because in this perfect place where everybody’s like ascended, everything is harmonious. There is no law. Everybody does things right, so there are no conflicts up there. There is no difficulty of rules. Everybody is happy. and up there, there you go. If you can see those, of course. That would be great. That’s right, that’s pretty good. I’m just looking up, listen to this, it says, in Zappa’s album, The Grand Mizzou, was released in 72 by the late Frank Zappa. This jazz comedy fusion album was created when Zappa was recuperating from severe injuries. It involved characters like the funky emperor Cletus Auretus Auretus and Mediocrities, his arch enemy from a neighboring province, and the Quest, an aesthetic, music-hating, underground movement. The busy cover art depicts the battle between Gargantua and Priccicoli, a connected series of five novels written in the 16th century by Rabelais, regarded as an avant-garde writer of fantasy satire. The grotesque dirty jokes and bawdy songs, rather like Zappa himself. The story is of two giants, a father, Gargantua, and his son, Pentegruel, satire, they grotesque dirty jokes and bawdy songs rather like Zappa himself. The story is of two giants, a father Gargantua and his son Pantagruel and their adventures with crudity and scatological humor, violence and vulgar insights. The cover depicts Auretus and Mediocrities and their soldiers in battle with Mediocrities’ troops getting blown away by the deadly mystery horn. All right, so they’re saying P Panagruel’s in the cover. I don’t know if they’re projecting that, or I don’t know where they get that. In the album cover, I don’t see where Zappa mentions Panagruel. Maybe we have to look at the essay, the footnotes. Hey, Bert, do you have anything you want to say? I know that I remember reading or hearing that Frank was a chemist, a chemistry, because he blew up toilets when he was in high school. As a kid. There is a chemistry connection, yes. When he was a kid, that was his first interest, was chemistry. I mean, it was before high school I think yes yeah he loved playing with mercury and mercury is also chemistry mojito still yeah right there over there Emerald tablets and the King Frank was always painting himself as Mercury. Right. Yeah. Are you still here, Alissa? Did you want to say something? Maybe she got knocked out. Let’s check that. Yeah, oh, yeah, there’s some people here. Is that you, Alynda? Hello? Yes, yeah, I fell out. Okay, sorry. Did you want to say something about what we’re saying? Yes. So when I fell out, I’m not sure if he covered this, Roxy, but I was on the wiki for Fulcinelli and there’s a paragraph in there that says when Berger, who is the French guy, when he When he met Fulcinelli, he asked him about the philosopher’s stone. And it says that Fulcinelli answered, the vital thing is not the transmutation of metals, but that of the experimenter himself. It is an ancient secret that a few people rediscover each century. Unfortunately, only a handful are successful. And then later on in the wiki, there’s a paragraph about the phonetic Kabbalah, and that’s what his term was for the special use of language. That’s neat. Phonetic Kabbalah. It’s just that people word it like Kabbalah, like nothing. Hey, but people word it like cabal, like genetic. Hey, Rossi. Rossi, you’re going to have to do – you’re breaking up. Could you call back in? Maybe that will make a better connection because you’ve probably been on here a long time, so we’re not being able to hear what you say. So we’ll wait for you to come in. Are you on the phone or on Skype? Roxy, are you on Skype or phone? Oh, maybe she already is doing it. Let’s see. You’re there, Bert, right? Bert and Melissa are here. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I guess she’s going to, OK, there it is. Is that you, Roxy? You just came in? Yes, Roxy. Hello. Yes, cabada means court in Latin, and he would write cabada, not be paid, but you see? It’s not working, Roxy. Roxy, it’s not working. Maybe I will call you and bring you in. Roxy, it seems like a battery. Roxy, I’m going to call you on my phone and bring you in this way. Okay, Roxy? I’m going to bring you in my phone. Yeah. All right? Okay. So hang up and I’ll call you and bring you in. All right. I’m going to try to get a little bit of a break. Okay, so Bert, Roxy, are you there? Speak again. Yes. Okay, good. Yes. So what were you saying, Roxy? You were trying to say something a minute ago. Yes, that Pulcinelli said about the word caval. He would write it like cavalo, like as an example of the Green language or the bird language. Because he said the words are like the horse of Troy that have a lot of other meanings. And that’s the thing with playing with the words, how you can change or connect the words to encrypt things and give different levels of meanings. And Fulcan Ali said in Ravelet, there is a lot of secret knowledge. And also Ravelet in the professe of the books, he said you may get a lot of fun from the jokes but it’s not about the story. There is other type of things going on. And he warns the people, the audience, that they can get into these deeper levels of meaning, of the symbols of the words, of how he’s… Well, does he explain it? Does Falconelli explain the deeper levels? He gives examples of what he meant by morphing words or they have not only the double entendre, but the multiple entendre. Because there were many things, like for example in alchemy, they have symbols like the lion or the eagle, the salamander, which is the salt, and many things like that. And they will put these words in connection with other things. And the people who knew about this couldn’t get the esoteric meaning besides the funny story, the satire that he… And it’s very interesting because… Hold it, Roxy, Roxy, I gotta tell you something. You mentioned the satire. menippean satire, which was a specialty by the grammarian alchemist, Eric McClung will say that the grammarian would let off steam by doing a menippean satire. Now letting off steam would be, he has to hold in the secret knowledge among the little people. So then he says, the hell with it, I’ll write this crazy book and put the secret knowledge in the satire. So that’s the point. They would show, the secret knowledge would be in a satire. That’s the only way they would present it, because it would look like the secret knowledge would be in a satire. That’s the only way they would present it, because it would look like the guy wasn’t serious. So you’re pointing out Rabbalayesian satire, Zappa satire, it’s all menippean and it does involve secrets. And Joyce. And Joyce, yes. And Aion. Aion is very menippean and Veroni. Yes, it’s the mastery of the… Really it’s amazing how they put all these things in the story without the people who is not aware of all the things they are revealing. They put in things like Aon Phaeus in plain sight. Always, always, always, always. Everything is there. Like magnesium. Yes. Yeah, develop the magnesium. Roxie came up with this interesting idea that everything comes from magnesium, which means lover or something, but magnificent, magus, magna, she does a bunch of puns on that. Explain that a little bit, just for the record, Roxy, what you’ve discovered about magnesium and magnificent. Yes, because I wanted to give an example of what Fulcanelli’s talking about, when one connect the words or change. when one connect the words or change. So, Ayan does that a lot, a lot, a lot. Like, he, it sounds like he’s saying a word, but it’s not really that word, or it’s another word that sounds like. Yeah, you think he’s making a mistake, but he means it. He means the word. It sounds like a mistake. Yes, actually, that’s the language of thought, the language of the words. That’s the mastery. And the people who know, like maybe he’s saying that for people like San Martin or Tiger Man, they will get this other meaning from what Dion is saying. Well, Zappa says in Uncle Meat that the lyrics are always inside jokes. It’s always inside joking. And you’re saying they would have inside jokes for Martin and Saint Martin and Jermaine. That would be inside jokes they’d get. It’s like it’s entertainment. This famous book, Rabelais, Tannegroon, and these other books he did are just little notes from a salon, a literary salon or a verbal salon. And somebody writes it down and then everybody has to study it. Go ahead. And then somebody writes it down, and then everybody has to study it. Go ahead. Here’s something that ties into the magnesium and the play on that word again. It’s kind of an in-plain-sight type of thing. But again, from the Wikipedia, it says, according to Walter Lang, who wrote an introduction to the English translation of Fulconary’s Le Mystère des Cathédrales, the basic principles of the phonetic cabal are restored in his magnum opus. So that’s using that very out in the open term. But when you look that word up, it’s just really important. That’s what you’ve got to ask iON, Roxy. You have to ask, is the word magnesium the root for a lot of these other terms? You’ve got to ask him that. And just say it that simply. Just say it that simply. Yes, okay. But I know it is. Because the Magnus Opus is like what Zappa was talking about, this conceptual continuity, not only of all the things you do, but all the things that link with the works from the people that came behind. And the people that built the cathedral were very aware of that everything, all this programming of the environment was a teamwork. Nobody would say, they think it was all a collective. Yeah. And that’s another group that Diana has talked a lot about, the Freemasons coming from the pyramid and temple building back in the Egyptian times, which Moses was one of the leaders of Yes for me. Yeah, so moving because the the whole thing that people have been doing since Egypt The whole conceptual continuity the big work is called the opus magnus right right and it has the matter the opus magnus. And it has the root of the magnesium, which is actually the opus magnus is the completion in iron dome. Right. Do you, and since we’re saying this while Carol’s getting trans, has now got a book out in China. What is MAG? What’s the root of magnesium? What does mag mean in Latin or Greek? I’m not sure, but there is the word magnes. Magnes, okay. Because magnesium is very important in the body. It’s the element that holds together the body, it seems to me. So that could be a metaphor for love or the non-physical. Yes, and there is also Mach Lithium, Lithium is the stone, and from there comes Mach Lithium. Right. So the word stone is there. And I was telling Rashi the other day, let me say this, Alyssa, in Phoenix Wake, Issy has 28 girls dancing around her and they’re called the Maggies. M-A-G-G-I-E-S. Mm. She’s always got the, it’s a key term. 28? And there’s 28 girls, yeah. 28. They’re like the phases of the moon or something like that. Different meaning, feminine meaning. Yes, and it’s also the prefix or the root of the word that means degraded. Yeah. Like magnis. They mean Bob. Magnitude. Mag comes from Bob. Like Frank Zappa was making this joke. Magnitude. Okay, you take M. M is the 13th letter. That’s one from three. One from three is two. And that’s B. And A is one. And then G is 7. So you add 7 and 1, you get 8. And we know 2 three times is 8. That’s 2-2, that’s B. It’s pretty close to Bob. Here’s your magnitude. But also it reminds us of Mac Lewis. Oh, yeah, yeah. This type of games with the words, all these things that link in your mind. Yes. This is how the hermetic knowledge is given to you. You might make an association of a symbol, of a letter or something, and it’s something meant for you. That’s the magic. You’re a talisman, you mean? No, for example, I would say, Mac reminds me of McLuhan. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that’s how many things were discovered and linked, like this type of… Right. Let me ask Elisa, are you on a delay? You seem to be a little… You responded at the wrong time. Are you on a delay, do you think? I didn’t say anything. No, no, a few minutes ago. Are you on through the computer? Can that be on delay? I’m on Skype. Is that delayed? Is that delayed? All right. You seem to be slightly on delay, but we’ll take that into effect. Here’s what I noticed in Carol’s life decades ago. I said, Carol, why do you keep having as colleagues or coworkers or provokers of you, Margaret? Why is Margaret or Peggy in your whole life all the time? I used to wonder about that. She attracted Margaret in every fucking endeavor she was involved in. It would involve a Peggy or a Margaret. So that. And that’s how the environment also speaks to you in a way is the alchemist. We’re aware of this type of communication with the thingness. Well see look, I’m there noticing that Margaret is around Carolyn a lot. And then I read in Phineas and Ferb that Issy has the girls around her named Maggie. That sounds like Carolyn and the Margaret. That’s how I start putting things together. These crazy things that showed up. And for example, for an alchemist, like Fulcanelli, they would say that was put there for you. Yes. Yeah. For you to. Now, I had something to add to that. When Fulcanelli says that alchemy is not led from stone, not the mineral elements or working in a lab or something or a furnace, it is your own personal transformation. I say the luddites, the guys who can’t fucking tie their shoelaces, couldn’t make a bicycle, the non-technical guys, they go for the idea that alchemy is personal transformation. And it’s the gadget lovers, the mechanics, the guys who can do things with objects, they go for the material led into goal, literally. So iON does both. iON does machinic inventions like Coldplay and food inventions like subtle plants like RNA drops, plus personal transformation. iON does both. Both paths are within Iondom. You see what I’m saying? Yes, and that’s the wonderful thing with the whole opus re magnus, that it’s how things evolve, all the crafts and the arts and the science, with this idea of the alchemist perfectionion in reaching the completion. Right. And you know, we have re-mag, re-light, then it became re-mite and re-align and re-bob and whatever other one is left out. These were all insisted on by iON. iON insisted. What? What, Bert? Did I leave one out? Renew. Yeah, renew. And I always insisted that whatever we named when we’d have our meetings, figure out the name of something, he’d always have the R.E. in there. Because, as you quoted a couple hours ago, he knew this was a replay, but it would work this time. But he acknowledged that it was a replay. Damn. Damn. Damn, let Bert, wait a minute. Damn. And also the worst… Damn! Let’s hear… Wow. Wait a minute. Let’s hear all of the fucking epiphanies. Yeah, what? Ha ha ha ha. Let’s see if Bert can recover. No, because my week turned around with that. My week has been turning around that everything’s already been done. So that’s… Right. To hear that, that’s like a statement or a stamp for what. Yeah, we’re summing up what you went through this week. Yes. We’re naming. I had a lot of things fall through for me with questions. So that’s a stamp you just gave me. That’s why I said that. Yeah, what do you mean fall through? Things didn’t happen? Well, I just, thought to go impersonal, but I’ve had some questions that I’m looking for eye on and then I’ve discovered in the archive the answers. And it all comes down to it’s already been already done. Right. As you talk about it’s already been said. Yeah. So what were you saying, Roxy, your next idea? Yes, that this type of phonetic similarities and symbolic connections are very important for the initiates. It’s like they see through these things and they get deeper levels of meaning. Like I was saying, lately the Renaissance has been in my environment a lot. Yeah. And there’s again the Renaissance, the reborn. Yes, Renaissance. The reborn. Yeah, and it started a few weeks ago, you went to the Botticelli exhibition, and then you just found out Botticelli did something with Margaret or somebody? No, Botticelli was a friend of Leonardo, and they both had a restaurant. Oh, wow. And actually, before, the kitchen and the lab were the same thing. There was not like, I have my lab and my kitchen. The kitchen was the laboratory. And back in Greek culture, you know what they were? You know what they were before that? It was always medicine. You look, Thucydides was the father of history, first historian in literacy. He considered his role as a historian, he was being a medical doctor by telling people what happened. It’s all medicine, which goes back to the pre-literate aboriginal peoples with plants, and that was medicinal. The knowledge comes from the plants or whatever they worked with in their natural environment. That is the core. Everything was medicine, therapy. The restaurant, the food, the music. It comes from medicine. Think of that. Yes. And for example, since Bergamot… That’s why they were called doctors. You got a PhD, you’re called a doctor because you know you’re a doctor of economics. Economics is important. It heals millions. In Pergamos, the temple was also the hospital. Ah, really? That’s really good. You see the symbol of the Caduceus in a lot of the castles in La Loa. Right. And also Frank the First has in many paintings the Caduceus. And Zappa called himself Dr. Zircon in Happy Valley. That was on his laboratory door in 1970. Z-U-R-K-O-N, Dr. Zircon in Happy Valley. Now, go back. So when you listen, Alyssa, to what you missed, you’re going to hear somebody asking some questions. And iON links it to Pergamon, one of the banking centers way back there. And Roxy was on to Pergamon after we went to one of the museums in August 2014. Yes, because the thing is, through the symbols, you can also see where things originate. Yeah. Like, they say the priesthood of Babylon moved to Pergamon, and you see the same type of symbols of ornamentation. And another big thing in Pergamon was the holocaustus, which means sacrifice with fire. And they have a bull where they put the people and they burn it inside. And the bull seemed to be alive because the people were shouting inside being burned. And that’s the holocaustus. And the Holocaust and Hitler, they retrieved the Bergamot, they brought it here to Berlin and Albert Speer made the Hitler Tribune in Nuremberg as a bigger Bergamot. And they also had this type of sacrifice there. In the chat line, Roxy, someone noted that Aion was talking about Hitler while talking to you, and you’re just telling us now the reason, right? Because of the Pergamon. But you listen, Lelisa, out of nowhere, Aion links into whatever the person was asking about, links into Pergamon, which goes right back to Roxy and all that stuff she was saying eight months ago about pergamin. That’s where ions is the supreme memory. iON remembers what was said two years ago and then finally it’s retrieved and pointed right now when someone’s talking about magnesium or something. That’s the great integrative composition that I am making. And this margarita… Do you think that the golden calf that is happening during the Moses and the tablets and all that is related to this golden calf or lamb or is there some similarity there? The lamp you mean the lampstands or something else what what golden calf? What does it relate to? The golden fleece that Roxy was talking about with the Argonaut. It could be and Zion has done a lot on the golden calf I mean basically Moses came back down and they were all dancing around, so he forced them to burn, he said, either my side or the gold side. And so they took their choice and then they melted down the gold and the guys that didn’t go with Moses were forced to drink the scalding gold. The very thing that they were worshipping, they had to drink. And they all died from that. But, um, I don’t know if it says how Moses, how did he get the upper hand? What did he do? He wrestled them all, he killed a few of them. I haven’t read the exact bible story but i’ve heard i go to the details of i don’t know how most of that position to make people do that you know you’re with me or against me yet if you’re getting paid we’re gonna kill you i mean why do you have the advantage yes and i think that the thing with that in heathrow alchemy lately they can’t keep big picture and how things connect in these amazing ways in different works. Right. Now let me tell you about Zappa in relation to initiation. Ike Willis told me, and he was a major member and a later member of the band. He goes around and plays with the cover bands, a lot of the Zappa cover bands. And he teaches them. So the gift they get by inviting Ike to be in their cover band is that he tells them the secret parts of Zappa’s instructions. He knows what Zappa told secretly. And he tells me, I don’t know if he tells it all, but he knows how to impart the secret part of Frank so the band can be better. So there’s the initiation right there, that Ike is the carrier. Yeah. Yes, and actually, the more you study these things, you see that actually the major scientists and artists and everybody was really into this art. And it’s not known, but for example, we mentioned that Botticelli and Leonardo had a restaurant and their kitchen was a laboratory. And there is this conspiracy thing. They say Botticelli was one of the masters of the Zion. Of the what? The secret society, the Zionists. The Zion. Zion, Z-I-O-N. Yeah. Or the Zionists. And he gave the leadership to Leonardo. And that’s how I learned that they had a restaurant together, that they were very close friends. So look at Zappa making these incredible advances with the ThinkClever and other technologies going back 20 years. He’s always in the forefront of new electronic apparatus. And he invented other things, all that invention. So what does he have himself photographed as? Wearing a cooking glove. He also has pictures of the witch in the kitchen. Yes. And what was his studio? It was called Dr. Zircon, the happy lab. Dr. Zircon is happy in something in happy valley. The muffin kitchen or something like that. Yes. What he later changed to when he got a bigger, more advanced studio, it was called the utility muffin Muffin Research Kitchen. It’s a laboratory. Yeah. Utility. He was working with the staff. Muffin Research Kitchen. I don’t think any scientist would add the word kitchen to their institute. McLuhan didn’t call it the Center for Cultural Technology Kitchen, but Zappa added the word kitchen. It’s not like he was retrieving, what’s your tombo, Leonardo and Botticelli. They knew it was a kitchen. Which then leads to iON, who from day one, says Bob, we’ve got to make a better candy. We can make millions, Bob. He’s always trying to seduce me to make a better candy. He was in the kitchen from day one. Well, the whole religion makes a lot of allegories around food, the wine, the bread. Which was the original therapy. The manna, the blood. Food was the original therapy. You know, like let’s say somebody falls, so they have to give them a substance, and that would be food. And so food was not meant for hunger, it was meant for a fucked up situation. Hunger was a fallen state, so you had to give them food to get them out of the state. They didn’t sit around making up cakes and banana splits. The Ascended don’t eat. Ha ha ha. And that’s the majesty of the Holy Mass. Jesus presents the basic acts of eating as his core symbolic ritual. The Last Supper, the Mass. There it is, food, the first medium. First technology. Yes, and one of the things that was produced in Urbino, your city in Italy. Yeah, my temple, I did well there. Was the majolica,ica is this type of ceramic that is shiny like for mosaics or vases. Very, very beautiful things. And they also made orphans. And one of the orphans that was made in Urbino is one of the 12 castles called Dampierre that is full of hermetic symbols everywhere. It’s interesting that an orphan from Urbino is there and is mentioned by Fulcanelli. And an orphan. Who’s the orphan? No, oven, oven. Oh, the oven, the kitchen. I said oven. Right. And Ian’s always talking about hands on griddle. Didn’t they end up in the oven? Yes, they were fattened up and eaten, weren’t they? Yes. The breadcrumbs. It’s like there are these types of hints to places that at the beginning, it might attract your attention and you say, oh, what a beautiful oven. Very nice, because I love my Jolly Can and Mosaic. And then I learned it was made in Urbino. Very nice, because I love my Jolly Can and mosaics. And then I learned it was made in Urbino. And then you told me you were there. I was one of the guys. I was one of the dukes of Urbino, and I’ll be playing more details on that tonight, I think. Yes, and that city has a very long tradition of alchemists and prophets. There was a feathered, the first one in Urbino, he had very famous alchemist advisors. Ezra Pound makes a big deal out of that temple, Ezra Pound makes a big deal out of that temple, that place Urbino in his cantos. And then there’s this battle between Urbino and Malatesta, or they worked together, I can’t remember. Malatesta. Yes, and one of them developed, he was a converted Jew. He developed a triangle, the tetragrammatron, and the tetractys. Yeah, the tetractys, yeah. You know, this point, and two, and then three, and then four. Yeah. And that was like everything that everybody was using for many different types of triangulations, and I don’t know what. Okay. Here’s where William Erwin Thompson comes in. You go through his five phases of cultural development. The first one is… Forget what he called it, you know, primitive, Paleolithic man. Then it became agricultural. And then it becomes civilization, which is about 3000 BC. And then it becomes industrialization and plantization. In the civilization phase, he says the main archetypal structure was the temple and they froze the sky and they froze symbolism. They wanted to have these permanent symbols, which sounds platonic. Those permanent symbols were dominant in the cosmology in the civilization phase, say 3000 BC up to the printing press. That’s civilization. Then industrialization begins with the printing press, and because society got sped up with the printing press and other products, it no longer was a static, stable society of the music of the spheres that had the sacred geometry that a lot of this we’re taught about refers to. The temple is the dominant medium in the civilization phase. It then becomes movement and interest rates and accumulation of movement in the industrial phase after the printing press and then you get banking houses. And the stable universe of the civilization phase falls apart. So the temple is a major archetype. So knowing that Thompson stuff, I used to wonder if iON was stuck in the temple phase. He’d go on about Solomon’s Temple and what we were going to do with it and I wondered if iON was in Thompson’s category, a replay of the civilization phase. Subsequently, iON has done so many other things I wouldn’t limit him to that phase. But we could probably look at iON. He’s retrieving the original herbal plant wisdom. That’s the phase one, whatever Thompson calls that. He is retrieving the Neolithic phase with the Axian water, and then he’s retrieving the civilization with the new temple, and then he’s retrieving the industrialization phase with Coldplay, and then he’s retrieving the plantization phase by the fact it is it, the ice cell and iron are affecting everything. So you could overlay the five stages in IonDome, all being completed or retrieved to their original complete situation. If the pattern occurred in the IonDome. Ionization might be the next. Yes, that’s a hexadecimal ionization. Yeah, go ahead. Didn’t iON give an explanation like a year or two years ago that in your chart we would go through the Kroker Quadrant and end up in the Thompson Quadrant? The Thompson Quadrant. He did say that. And just here you talk about the temple. bit about that because on the surface level, Thompson is spirituality and religion. Cosmic awareness, as Paul Shackley said, above in every culture, the top of the culture is religion. Not the art, not this, it’s the religion. So when Roxy’s talking about the spiritual imagery in these different places, they totally involved with religion, and that’s the ultimate art. That’s the original art and McCloon said everybody had to be a theologian so The thing that that will be also like one level of interpretation yes Yeah, but the spiritual impulse done by churches And I am said tonight or or we quote him, no more churches, but the churching and the stabilizing in a building, which is like the temple, is the impulse of fallen man after the actual spiritualization through whatever substances they had back then. So the stuff, the kitchen is first and then the building is second. So Thompson, he’s the spiritual religious source. So I can’t remember the different things, I said different things, but I said you’re saying Thompson is more important to Coker because it deals with spirituality and what you’re on about. He said yes. But he will talk about Thompson himself being stupid and that could be the top thing in the hexadic phase, not the septad and the octad. Remember, the rules are the main things thatn says are different from three, four years ago, but they could be representative of this phase, which is now ending. Yes, because the problem that happened with everybody, with all these alchemists is that at the end, they wanted to be mysterious and they built very complex systems of illumination and scholarship and encryption. They got lost in mastering the art language and the hiding of things. It’s really brilliant how they did it sometimes. Because for the centuries, people were working on this environment, the ones that knew. And would, for example, put a statue that would point to some symbol. Or there was an effect of light that would come and then light something up. But see, it’s a dangerous world. INS several times told us that we could never say anything about what they told us, or they wouldn’t tell us for then, because we would be killed. INS said that many times to us. So there are crazy people. If they find out you’ve got something, they will kill you for it. They don’t have any moral conscience about it. They just want that vampire blood or something. And that’s the way it would be back then. If they had something… For example, Margarita, when she published, because Ravelet told her, published her work. Yeah. She published this poem that Anne Boleyn took to Elizabeth I and that led to spying. Spying, did you say? Led to spying? To lying, to buying, buying the America some land or something. Right. It’s like, but when she published the the mirror of the sinful soul in which she says there is no death, the theologians of Lazarus were so angry they said she should be put inside some clothes and thrown inside. Go ahead, they should put her where? They said she should be put inside some clothes and sew the clothes with her inside. And then throw that thing in the sand in the river. And she was the sister of the king and The king said she was even reported to the Inquisition and the king said okay Take their charges But she was the sister of the king and after that he was very cautious Right. She made a lot of things that were published when she died but she was not there to publish them. She was the sister of the King and even a Queen herself. When you listen to iON from a few hours ago, when you hear that part of the show, you’ll find out that iON told me the other day that this Margarita is related to Roxy and his mother. And then I went on about how Margarita is very close to Roxy right now and he wouldn’t tell us what form of closeness. And I think I, didn’t I, I think I said was Margarita still alive? And I think they said yes. Now here’s the other thing. At one point Carol heard this and she says well maybe I was Margarita. Okay, so she went a little bobbish and she got megalomania. She probably was very embarrassed she did that. But anyways, iON said that no, she wasn’t Margarita, she was the woman behind Margarita. That could be anything. So Carol was around this scene that we’re talking about. And then I asked, I hope it’s not too personal, I asked if Roxy’s mother knew about this kind of stuff in her own lineage. And I said, it is too, they do not talk about it, they do not discuss it because it’s considered too prideful. Too hot he was the word. In other words, the oligarchs have to look humble. They don’t want to go around rubbing in people’s faces that they’re sitting on the house and the hill and everybody else is in the ghetto. So it’s like rich people don’t talk about money. It’s vulgar. You’ll hear that from JW. But it was interesting that Roxanne’s mother considered it almost a sin to talk about your roots like that, which I found very interesting. And I told that to Roxy, and she told me some interesting anecdotes that had new meaning for her about her mother in light of this. Wow. That’s awesome. Now, we’re not saying this for anybody. For example, one of the things that now I find very interesting are the coats of arms. Yes, the codes of arms. Yes, the codes of arms, yeah. Because in the codes of arms, it’s supposed to be like the program of your family, what you’re supposed to do. Yeah. And the symbols have a meaning. Your role, your function. Yes, like your function. Your purpose, your function. Yes, like, your function. Your purpose, your alibi for why you’re better than the peasants. You know, your role, your accepted purpose. No, like, many people think this type of aristocrats were only exploiting the people but, um, it was a lot of work. It was not like… No, that’s work. It was not like… No, that’s true. Like, for example, if you see, I was watching a video about the people that own Beauregard and the Duchess. She was saying, for example, just to repair one of the windows of the castle, she had to pay like 20,000 euros. And they’re enslaved to these castles just to keep them. Keep it going. To repair some of the things is impossible now because they need like a lot of trees and a lot of work and a lot of money that is not possible to have anymore. But it worked because it was another type of system, like I think it was your uncle in Urbino, Federico. Yeah. He never lost in battle. He would tax the people as little as possible. That’s one of the cities in the Renaissance where Bob was active. I think it was me. It nice bob help people he he he made the most wonderful castle in the renaissance and Machiavelli was inspired by this guy to make the prince but uh… they… you mean Machiavelli? wait wait wait he inspired Machiavelli’s the prince what you’re saying right? yes because they say that his court was the only real court where gentlemen were gentlemen. It was really like the ideal. He has a painting in which he portrays the ideal city. He really wanted to create the ideal, beautiful world of the completion. And this is the family in which Bob was acting in the Medici time. Well, I had a point there. Jose Margarita, always remember this is a big deal in Ezra Pound’s cantos. Pound said a society that didn’t do usury, didn’t charge interest, would make beautiful art. And I think this guy was not a usurious, the Urbino people weren’t involved in usury. So they made beautiful art. And Pound would document and write poetry about those places that did have usury would become corrupt art and failure. So yeah that’s a major theme in Pound about the cantos. It relates to this. That relates. Yeah go ahead. That relates to the frequency that Roxy was talking about earlier about the harmonious living. Yeah. It’s that the adept has to create an environment around him. He has to perfect himself and his environment the best he can. So that’s part of his work. Right. Now, we’re not trying to make people feel less than because of Roxy’s mother or something. We’re not talking about the risk grads because they’re greater than us. We’re talking about how they, in the end, pointed to us, but they failed. That’s the point here. They’re less than us is the way I would look at it. They’re really good at what they did but they were stuck in their time unless there were a few of them that were successful but they went on to become eternal and didn’t bother making anything because they lived on another level of manifestation. Yes, but for example this thing with the function that is on the coat of arms, for example the family of my mother, the same patron is St. Andrew, and St. Andrew was crucified in a cross that is like an X, that’s why in many flags you have this X. What’s an X? You mean an X? Yeah, like a letter. The cross. The cross? Yeah, X, Y, Z. The letter before Y. Right? The letter before Y. You’re going to agree with that? The letter before Y? Yeah, I agree. Okay. It’s the symbol of invictus, of not losing, because even though he was crucified, he will not stop talking about the real religion to the people. He died talking. Yes, that’s one of our duties that we have to tell everybody about the true, informed truth and report even if we are crucified and then be killed. That’s right. You keep the word going. Alyssa, Roxy’s great aunt, two of them, formed the main convent in Mexico. They were part of, that was a responsibility to start a religion basically or continue the Catholic religion in Mexico. And they’re known, they’re famous for being women who wrote books. They wrote books in the 19th century, the rare women writers. Yes, because they traveled a lot. How did they get into that, Roxy? Well, their father was a… I wanted to be… They have some responsibility. It’s their religion. You know, Christianity, they’re in charge of it. They want the people to believe it, so they have to be good examples. And they have to take it seriously. Yes, but it’s like, for example, the first king of France, he was baptized in San Remy by San Martin. Ah. And they will go around in France and convert all the people. Yeah, once he was baptized. Yeah, they thought it was really their duty to bring this truth to the people in the hope of eternal life that is not like you think, that you’re going to be a little man forever. Right. There is this resurrection, this transmutation, and that’s what McLuhan saw in Christianity that moved him to say this is the true religion because it’s the religion that has this. Celebrates the body. Well, and also has information about the completion and the remagnesium and the rebooting. But it was all like a metaphor. They had all the words, also the alchemists. They were looking for the stones, and they were saying it was about the transportation of the metals. Yeah. And all these things that are happening now in, for real, that metals, all the elements are changing. Right. And everything they say, all these ideas, these great ideas they had, is really what is happening now. Your blood is really, is not only a symbol of you taking the wine and the bread, it’s really for real. And when you go, and I am telling you, when you go to the hospital, they’re going to notice your blood. Now, who dispenses that information? Nobody ever even thought of saying it. Be careful when you go to the hospital they’re going to get puzzled by your innards. What is that I was going to say? So that he, let’s say that over the ideas that Ayan has said are the most original in 50 years. This idea of telling people to watch it when they check your blood, you never heard of that. You never even knew that was a possibility, that it could change. That’s an idea iON invented, you could say. That’s an original idea, original thing to say to people. But it makes sense with the RNA. Yes, very. Yes, yes. So there’s a connection of logic there. Yes. When the French kings converted to Christianity, they adopted this lapis lazuli blue as their color. I love that. And also the flower of leaves. The flirty leaf. And also the flower of leaves. The flirty leaf. It’s also very interesting because the blue lotus, the blue leaf is the one in France. But for example, Florence had the red one and then the America at the white May flower, which is also a type of leaf flower. Wow, yeah. And these are the colors of the banners of England, France and America. Right. And so, Alyssa… Great pattern, Roxanne. Yeah, the father… Yeah, the father… Wow. Right, the father of the two nuns, or her aunt that become, that formed the convent, that father, I think, was him, or his father, arranged for Maximilian III over there in Austria to come over and take over Mexico in, like, 1850 or 1860. The conspiracy, LaRouche view is that Maximilian was working for the European oligarchy to form a front at the southern flank of the United States to topple the Republic of Abraham Lincoln or people around his time. That’s the negative view of Maximilian. But Rashi told me that Maximilian but but a little bit uh… ronnie told me that next to that he was a very benevolent emperor and i think that a lot for the people with him the green the made their education for everybody public education he avoided them the segregation of the tax, the physical punishment, and he separated the possessions of the church and take to the people, distribute it to the people. And that’s why Napoleon was having a war with the Prussians, so they could not sustain him in Mexico. Mexico and they left it, the other, the church and the other aristocrats didn’t help Maximilian because they thought he was too liberal and nobody helped him and then he was… Captured. Yeah. So there’s this, hey Alyssa, there’s this painting of the father of… Would he be the father of the aunt? Is it the father that offered the crown of the aunt? Yes, he was a diplomat. Right. So there’s a painting of him presenting the crown to… with all his delegation, all the other Mexican guys behind him, presenting the crown to Maximilian. Now, because Maximilian went down, then this guy, you know, her great grandfather, he was in trouble too. They had to go underground and they all retreated back to Germany because her great grandfather had been the diplomat to Germany. Collaborator. Yeah. Yes, but there is this type of secret history because I was reading about another guy that I wanted to ask Kion about. His name was Rene Robert Cavalier de la Salle. Wow. And he was sent by King Louis XIV to set a colony in Florida and Louisiana. Yeah. And he immigrated to Canada when he was 22 in 1666, he went to Canada and then from there he was sent by the king to make this French colony in America and from there they were planning to invade Mexico. But I found it interesting that the name of this guy is Rene Robert. Rene Bob, yeah. There’s a lot of color in his life. But where was the French colony that was going to invade the States? Where was this? Well, La Louisiane. Oh, Louisiana. That was from the French. Right, right, right. And the guy goes to Canada. That’s pretty the purchase. Right, right, right. And the guy goes to Canada. That’s pretty deluded. Why would he go to Canada? What’s up there? I have no idea. You have to ask Aya. He was looking for me, or it was me planting the treasure in Oak Island. I suspect this guy was another version of me. Maybe it was your father or your uncle because he has a boat name. the treasure in Oak Island. I suspect this guy was another version of me. Maybe it was your father or your uncle because he has both names. He was my doppelganger. He was from another world operating on the same points, but from another world’s perspective he came to our world to act out the future, to mime it, to prepare it. Yes, and another thing that was very interesting that Diane said that Virginia is not part of America. And for example, that the… Yes. It’s owned by the queen. It’s all these portals and that America came out of these portals. Wait. And these things they know. Virginia America? They of this port of… Great. And these things, they know. Virginia America? They know this. Yeah. It’s called the Commonwealth of Virginia, and there’s a whole bunch of law that’s subject to a deal that the queen, the royalty of England, made with the 19th century people that, or maybe even earlier, that kept the queen and the royal family in control of it. They run Virginia. Remember when in May 2007 when that kid went nuts at Virginia Tech and killed some students? Uh-huh. Right? Yeah. At the time, unless it was 2009, I’m imagining I’m talking to Aion about it, but maybe before Aion. The Queen visited Virginia right during those weeks. So why was the Queen happening there? And she never comes to America. It’s a big problem when the Queen comes. So there was a connection between the Queen coming to virginia the deal she had to make it this is in the battle after two thousand six when no economy went to put all over the world in two thousand six of them year to a week we had to come to america the to get check up on her gold but you had to do something in virginia and it is massacre happened quote is a distraction whatever you know i don’t know the way to interpret it, but it was connected. So why are we talking about that? That’s Virginia and… Well, because of the connection with the Americas and the French. Yeah. There is this secret history, this secret thing going on behind. And you know where you read that in Finnegans Wake? You go to page 570 of Finnegans Wake, 570 to 572, an incredible three pages of the battle over this check, this responsibility, this debt between the Catholics and the Protestants, and how they hand it back and forth to each other in conflict. Remember the Queen is a Protestant and it comes into, it’s against the Catholic French. Yes, and for example, another example of this green language I was going to ask you, what is that phrase from? Where’s the green language from? Is that Fulcanelli? Yes. That’s how the Hermetics called this type of material. Yeah, you look at it in reverse, you have Amer and the word mer and he would play with all these type of things that are in the word. He would say there is a lot in the words, in the anagrams, in the combinations you can do with the letters of the word. That’s one of the basic lessons of Finney’s Wake is that Joyce writes a book and plays with combining the letters in different directions to get out of your linear alphabetic hypnosis that you’re taught as a child. You read linearly. Words have to be spelled properly. You forget how to play with the visual parts of the words, the double entendres. So he wrote, so on a basic level, he is violating the grammar standards of regular education by making a book that plays every sentence with the order of the letters. That’s loosening up your mind. And- Another thing that I found very interesting lately is that he has all these genealogies of kings in the Finnegans Wake. And many of the characters that Aion mentioned, the kings and the pre-electric king and all these. Yeah, Roderick the pre-electric king. Are you saying our inn’s fitting its wake? Yes. Yeah. For me, Joyce is like Nostradamus. There is a lot of like prophecy or… Yeah. Things in there that you get. I think now we’re starting to really… What? Did her phone go out? Did I go out? No, you’re there. Maybe she dropped off. She must have dropped. Yeah. I had her on her phone. Maybe the phone ran out. Now something just came in. This is… No? So… Her battery’s dead. Let me just… Bert, would you entertain Alyssa? Serve her a coffee or something. Are you there, Bert? Maybe Bert fell out. Is that you, Bert? Yes. Okay, you fell out. When I click, it tells you it’s unmuted or you hear a sound, so you know you’re being unmuted, right? I hear a sound. Hey, you’re breaking up. What’s that about? You’re chopping. Do you hear a sound? I hear a sound. Yeah, you’re okay right now. Okay. No, no, can you hear us, Bert? I can hear you. I can hear you. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay’re okay right now. Okay. No, no. Can you hear us, Bert? Yes, I can hear you. But you’re breaking up. What’s that about? How about now? No, still broken up. Maybe you need to call back in, reconnect. Okay. Meanwhile, I’m going to getappos and see what it sounds like. I wish I could play some Zappa or something. All right, you’re back. We’re waiting for Bert. Let’s try Bert here. Is that a better connection, Bert? Can you hear me now? Yeah, that’s better. No break. Yeah. So what were we talking about with that interruption? Was Roxy saying something? Roxy was saying something. I don’t know what we were talking about. No, both the letters. The altering of the letters. The pun. Changing the linear order of letters. Finnegans Wake. Finnegans Wake. Oh yeah. I have something to tell you about Finnegans Wake. At the James Joyce Society in New York one night, the head of the Manhattan Freemasons came and spoke to us. And he’d become obsessed with Finnegans Wake because he discovered all this Freemasonic inner knowledge that only he had learned by being initiated Freemasonic. It was all over Finnegans Wake and I think in Ulysses also and he was very puzzled by this so he became obsessed with Joyce and he said he found what was interesting I think he met the guy or you heard about it that a free nation came to uh… joy and uh… uh… well i guess was impressed with joy and he told joyce all the secret he violated you know his old the file filing in the phone press choice probably you listed that he told joyce everything violated his oath, his vow of silence, and he was so impressed with Joyce, and probably Ulysses, that he told Joyce everything. I found that out either through this guy or Evergreens or something. But Joyce had a lot of that knowledge and he found it, he got it and put it in there. Yes, and that’s something that, for example, Mozart also wanted the little man to sing the same songs as the emperor and to know about these things and he also started with this secret information in his operas and some say he was killed because of that because he was revealing Oh some people say he was murdered? People say he was murdered? Oper Don Giovanni, yeah, it was commissioned by a mystery person that came always like with the mask like like from Venice is that max and he was he felt that he was being watched and Just like Maria Antoinette was killed They they sort of got rid of them too. And you’re saying Don Giovanni’s but a guy with a mask? No, he was commissioned by a mystery person who would come and see Mozart with a mask. He never knew who he was, but he was sort of scared because he knew who he was. Because he revealed some of these secret things. Well, we’ve covered enough of history. Let’s get into Frank a little bit more. I’ll go get the book and we’ll go through some names. Okay? Yeah. Have we exhausted your treasure, of wisdom, Roxy? Have you told us everything you knew? No, but I mean, this is an example of how these hermetic thoughts things reveal. Like, for example, we find the song by Zappa, who is Fulcanelli. Yeah. And then Fulcanelli is a person that was starting all these systems of cathedrals and castles and trying to understand why, what was the real meaning of all these things Bob put there? Yes. Now, look at it as the place we’re going to, the Garden of Eden in the Bible, so we’re going from Revelation backwards to the Garden of Eden, it already exists and we’re already there, but it’s not obvious in this level of mortar. So, I’m there and you have these spin-offs of people like raiding the Garden of Eden. All these different groups, these aristocratic groups or secret societies are raiding, they’re coming in like a radio from an angle at the Garden of Eden. And the reason I’m there through a lot of it is that they’re coming into my home and I have to negotiate with them. I Leave Garden of Eden go hang out with them. And so think what is radiating around a circle one minute I’m interacting with Moses next minute. I’m interacting with their Bino Duke to Bino and next time I was barrel of scone here in the p2 society in In Italy, you know what I mean? They all are happening beside each other and you just step on an angle like the dodecahedron, everything is just a particular angle and so I step over here to the right and that will put me into the temple and those guys still struggling trying to get here and picture it that way. Like the angel diagram, you’re in the center and time, the events of quote history are on spirals overlapping each other. And you can step into each one of them anytime. They’re not in a linear time sequence. So they’re still growing. The Duke of Veno is still trying to get, make his temple better. The Martin family is still trying to make their churches better. So the becoming part is really important. That’s going to be changed so eventually we’ll see the real pyramid. So the pyramids we see are not complete. Yes, and that would explain these anomalies of things that we don’t understand how they were built. They built from the same place. Yes, the glasses in the cathedrals. The thing that for the cathedral of Santa Maria dei Fiore in Florence, they say the construction of that cathedral marks the start of the Renaissance. So like you said, there are some things that some people do that somehow have an effect on the environment. Yeah, that’s Bruno Leschi, Rashi was mentioning how… I knew the name Bruno Leschi. He invented the cupola, the dome. The biggest and they didn’t know how they were going to solve that but they will start. They start anyway. And the zeroes will last 200 or whatever. Hey, Roxy, I think you’re… And the guy that made the cobble, there was like a contest to say, okay, tell us how you could do it. He was born 80 years after they started to build the cathedral and Brunelleschi didn’t show how he was going to do it, but he won. He still convinced them. Yes, because they say, how are you going to do it? And he said, I cannot tell you, it’s a secret. But this is the thing that, who knows? Who told them? The angels, Zion, who knows? Well, them? The angels? Zion? Who knows? Well this is exactly, Roxy… I can do it. And they think, how are you going to bring all these… None of your business. And he was so confident. He must know because he won’t even try to fool us. He has confidence in not telling us. That proves he knew it. I don’t have to tell you, fucker. The way he had proof, he knew it. He said, I don’t have to tell you, fucker. The way he convinced them, he said, OK, bring me an egg. And they brought the egg, and he asked the jury to try to make the egg stand. And nobody could because the egg would fall to the stairs. And they say, okay, how are you going to make it stand? And he just, Vasari says, he broke the ass of the egg. He said it like that. So he broke the egg, and so then the egg was standing. Right. It was two halves. That would be the dome. So he broke the egg and so then the egg was standing. Right, it was two halves. That’d be the dome. Yes, and they said, well we could do that too. And he said, no, you didn’t know how to do it. I know how to do it. And he won without telling how he was going to do it. And he wasn’t going to tell them, but he couldn’t, because he had fucking iON and Bob with him, and he couldn’t give away that secret. And he never built anything before, and he was not an architect, he was only… That’s like me. …a keramist. You’re making me… But he was an architect. Yeah, listen to this, Roxy. We go step by step with iON. We have no idea, when we started making The Answer to Cancer, Roxy. We go step by step with iON. We have no idea when we started making the answer to cancer how to do it. He said he’d tell us as we went. We didn’t know how to do the Coldplay, and he told us how we went. And so we just started building things. We’re still doing that, and we don’t know ultimately how to finish it. But we have confidence that iON will tell us at the right time what the next step is. So we’re building it the same way as those guys. We don’t know what we’re doing. Yes, you’re doing this big magnum opus without knowing how, but just start. We just start with iON. We just say, well, we’ll keep talking to this phenomenon. We believe in the phenomenon, they keep talking to it, despite universal ridicule. Yeah, for me, this type of metanoia is going back and finding all these things. Right. It’s like a validation, a confirmation that it has been like this always. I mean, all humanity is crazy, but they were trying to achieve the conclusion. Yeah. The opus remacnus, and we just share what we’re doing. We’re just singing while we work. So Roxy came forth for the iON work because her mother forced her to. And you know, here’s the other thing. Her mother produced five pretty interesting or four interesting women. They’re all like activists in some way. One is a people’s activist in Seattle. Another one is a big TV guru in Mexico City. So you’ve got Roxy in the art world or whatever she is, then she begins to die in them, then you’ve got the other sister as a TV evangelist, and then you have another one in Seattle who’s a folk activist. It’s pretty interesting what these It’s pretty interesting what these Lorenzo women… We have this compulsion that we have to… Yeah, you’re following your great aunt. I mean, Roxy was told, wanted to be a nun, Alyssa, when she was 13 and 14, because of her family tradition. She goes to the convent and they’re treated, she’s treated, her and her friend are treated so badly, she said, fuck that, and became a radical artist. She went to the pagan side. I went to a hello. But I knew, I knew I was fine…. … … … … … … … … … … … … …………… and go over boyfriend and that? Yes, because he… I always wanted to know many things iON was explaining and it made sense. Yeah, the things that iON brought up, you already were interested in. Yes, so this is there. This is there. This is there. But who can there be? the the end of the the high-end into the galaxy but the phone can be yet but the fact that i really uh… i think that the fact that you might have had a good you’re going funkin ellie and i’m glad what the fuck ellie i got an email from ellie michael’s but What the fuck, Ellie? I got an email from Ellie, Michael’s, Michael Roselle. Another thing is… Wait, wait, wait, do you know what I mean by Ellie? You know who Ellie is? Ellie is Michael Reed’s wife and she ran the Evergreen Sessions. Out of the blue, she asked me to be her friend. What the fuck, Ellie? Yeah, what the fuck’s up with Ellie? She wants me to be her friend on Facebook. Or she wanted her to be my friend, whatever it is. But she emailed me. First time she’s ever asked me for anything since Michael died. So Ellie, what the fuck’s up with Ellie is embedded in fucking Ellie. Bob. Bob. Yeah, but Alyssa. Now remember Alyssa, your name is a key name in Finney’s Wake. What’s her name? And Olivia Plurabell is often called Alyssa. There’s variations on Alyssa and there’s also the daughter Issy. You’ve got Issy in your name. So your name fits the school. Oh yeah. Hey, I can tell my delay is happening. I can tell my delay is happening, and I want to call back in and see if it can stop. Okay. All right. All right. Now, I wonder if there’s something. Was there a recording? Maybe we should just listen to the Ring of Fire by Zappa. Yes, I played it earlier. Do you want to hear it again? Oh, yeah, for the people here, for the Zappa people. For the record. For the record, yes. Ring of Fire. Because that would be one of the translations we could make of Fulcanelli. Yes. And another answer to the Fulcanelli, who the fuck is Fulcanelli, is Bob is Fulcanelli because he’s in the middle of the Ring of Fire. Yeah. Why? Right, we’re right in the middle of the Ring of Fire. That’s right. I think there’s a story that Zappa met Johnny Cash, invited him to his concert and he didn’t come. Yeah, and then Frank did the song anyway. But I think I’m right on that. I remember there was some little… I thought, yeah, no, Johnny Cash is probably too proper of a guy. Zappa never liked country music. Zappin never liked country music. He basically refused to do country music. That was one thing he was pissed off at, old friends of his would say. So who knows what Cash figured out and why he didn’t come. But Frank did it. Ring of fire. For I am. For Bob. Yes, I asked for it. They did it. It’s a joking one. It’s a joking put on. So, make sure the sound is working. Maybe that’s what Johnny Cash knew that Frank may have been a… was very manipulative or had a lot of satire, he was going to make fun of him maybe. Maybe that’s what Johnny Cash or his handlers sensed. Yeah. And also remember, Johnny, I don’t know how much Johnny Cash was a figure in the Christian fundamentalist movement, I don’t know, they probably all liked him, but I don’t know what he did with them. But Frank was the enemy of the Evangelists. You know, that was known. So that, many of his audience might have been these kind of Christian fundamentals. He knew it wouldn’t be good to be seen with that. Alright, we can always ask Aion, right? We can always check with Aion about the facts. The fact. The fact. Okay, so… We want to open the Lotus and connect the world. Yeah. Stop asking this nonsense. Okay, for one last time, we play the Ring of Fire. Yay! Okay, so… We want to open the Lotus and connect the world. Yeah. Stop asking this nonsense. Okay, for one last time, we play the Ring of Fire. Yay! Okay, so… We want to open the Lotus and connect the world. Yeah. Stop asking this nonsense. Okay, for one last time, we play the Ring of Fire. Yay! No, that doesn’t make it. Did I make some environmental noises? I thought I was on mute. No. Okay, good. I think I did. Yeah, you just heard the music. So what’s that? We just heard was Road Ladies from 1970, the album Chunga’s Revenge. Are you guys hearing an echo? No. Yes, but not like that. The album Chungus revenge Are you guys hearing an echo? No, yes, I do okay, I have to turn some things up He just sick I thought they played ring of fire twice I actually liked the song I like the way they do it I Like the way he comments everything, like, That’s right, Des, that’s right. Yeah, it’s good. I think some people find that funny. He figurates even more. But that’s the thing, I mean, The Ring of Fire, the fire is like a big thing now in the completion and He’s presenting the ring of fire in this funny way is the this attire obviously satirizing Johnny Cash To me is quite Yes put on the way. They’re doing it. Yes, but I mean the the thing that for Ryan, this is like something big, the Ring of Fire. Yeah, I had presented the Ring of Fire as a serious song. You know, he doesn’t think it should be satirized. It’s an important song. But that’s part of this attire we’re talking about this end of the Opus Magnus that took so long. Everybody was doing this with sometimes all their lives. Yeah. And now we just make fun of everything. Yes. Yes. Okay, so now I guess I’ve got to open it for Alyssa. She probably came in and I forgot to do it. That’s you, right, Alyssa? You’re in. Yes. Okay. Did you want to say something before we do the free coat list? This is all really good material. Did you like that road ladies? Did you like French guitar and road ladies? What you just heard, did you like that? Yeah, but going back, yeah. Yeah, it was good. We don’t need to go back into it but the if you guys like on your own time listen to the but what what was the title of the Falconelli piece by Zappa but who is a Falconelli but it’s because of but but who is who is who is spoken Ellie? Yeah, but who but yeah It would be it might be interesting to you to listen to the bass line that happens through that piece as well because obviously the guitar is very You know ornamental and doing all these awesome things that Roxy was sort of covering with the canon and everything but the baseline definitely has a presence and it is also ionic being there. All right you want me to replay it so we can listen to that? You said we didn’t have to but we want to hear it again, Roxy? Yeah, you can. Yes. Yeah, let’s hear it again. Now that we know so much more after a couple of hours in Roxy’s classroom, we’re super informed about what this thing’s about. Well, we’re just, it’s just a pretext to talk about Bob. Yeah, that’s right. Now, you notice after the Ring of Fire, It’s just a pretext to talk about Bob. Yeah, that’s right. Now, you notice after the Ring of Fire, it went into some New York DJ complaining about carts on the sidewalk. That’s on my iTunes list of 1,200 Zappa songs, but there’s a couple of weirdnesses that got in there. So I don’t know where that came from, and I don’t know who he is, and I thought I’d listen for a second. But it always hops to another song, it doesn’t hop it. Chronologically, it just hops somewhere. So, here we go. Oh, jeez, I think I turned the sound off, sorry. All right. Sorry. All right. No, not going to make it. But I really like the phrase, you only have groupies and promoters to love you. Yeah, yeah. And he misses his old mama, old lady mama back in the ranch. House in the country. Now he’s talking about Glossy, Stills, Nash, and Young and those guys, the country rockers that was coming in right then in 1970. OK, so we got that. Hello? Who can really? I’m just turning off all the buttons. I’m here. Right, we still have an echo. I don’t remember if we really said that the identity of Fulcinelli is not known. Many think it’s a group of persons. Okay. Yeah, because here’s my problem. I asked if I could find it. I’ll maybe take a look. I asked the Averines about Fulcinelli and they talked about him as being a guy in 1600 or something. So. Well, he’s supposed to be an Eternal, actually. Okay. Yeah, that would fit. I’ll look it up while we’re playing later when I’m playing some recordings so I can look up Fulcinelli. Maybe I can play what the Averines said about him. But that’s a good point. The Averines didn’t tell me. I don’t know who I was thinking of. I don’t know if I knew anything. Maybe I knew about the mourning of the magicians, but I remember thinking, well, that’s odd that he lived back in the 1600s. Of course, I was not informed then of us living for long stretches. Okay, so we’re now going to see what we can find in Frank. And I’m going to click off that. If I click off this button that Bill doesn’t like me to play with. Line muted. That creates some quiet. I have to remember to unclick. Yes, now… If I would remember in one program I saw from the French TV, an old program, one of the persons that you’re supposed to have met from Caneli. He was also telling about a man who repaired clocks in Paris. He was supposed to have died and there was seen again and he was saying that, yeah, there are these persons that fake their death but don’t die and they’re around. The Falconelli said that? No, one of the two people who knew him. He was telling about somebody else. That I think somebody even made a song about that. And it was even in the news or something in that time that this person was supposed to be dead and they have the funeral and then he was seen and recognized. Well, what we’ve learned from iON, we now talk and think this way and we can see the references, the breadcrumbs, different historical points like you’re citing Falconelli But the purpose of iON one of the purpose was to have the little man hear about this stuff so the the elites the aristocrats whatever they are they talked about this all the time and Taught it But they didn’t they kept it to the little groups. We’re making this available for 5 billion people, 7 billion people to hear how… and that’s actually what the Amerenes told me years ago. They said, Bob, your role is to present information that the people don’t know about, and you’re presenting the perspective of other people that the average man doesn’t know about. And that’s what we’re doing here. We’re presenting the perspective of the subculture of eternal people. This is anthropology. We’ve discovered this tribe of eternals that we’re telling everybody about. Yeah. These freaks. These freaks. Freak in C, freak out. Yeah, freak in C. So I’m just going to just check and see if anybody wants to say something for a minute or two. There’s a lot of people listening. So Madeline, do you have something to say? Question, statement? Madeline? I don’t know. Kim came in right away. I don’t know if she was going to say that. Okay, so Madeline’s not saying anything. Kim, did you want to say something? I assume that… I’m not saying anything. Kim, did you want to say something? I assume that… No, that’s not Kim. It’s a New Jersey number. Who is this? 856? It’s your favorite guy, Kyle. Ah, Kyle. Do you have anything you want to say? Do you want to promote Grand Funk Railroadroad or what’s on your agenda tonight? No, but I would appreciate it if you let me talk to Ian because I’ve got this back problem I’ve had for many years. And I went to my doctor and I wanted to get an MRI and think about having surgery. So I will… Okay, well you, did you call, oh wait, yeah, you can talk to Ayan next week. Did you call in earlier when Ayan was here? Yeah, I said right there to the last in, hoping to get on and you didn’t get me on, but that’s all right. I’m not gonna do it tomorrow. Hey Kyle, are you not doing surgery this coming week? No, no, I’m not gonna do it at all unless he tells me he thinks it would be advantageous because I’m okay, but I just have never-ending low-grade pain and if I… Okay, so Kyle, next week, I will be here for many longer hours, so we’ll put you in next week, OK? OK. One other thing, Bob. I don’t know how this happened, but I was just going over your website. And I was going back through the, whatever you call it, the archives. And seriously, total synchronicity. I clicked on a picture, got a picture of Elvis. So I said, let me click on this and see what they were talking about. And it turned out that was the first time that I came on the show. And I’m telling you, I’m telling you, you should go back and listen to the last two hours of that show. It starts off the first, second hour, starts off… What’s the date? What’s the date? June the 14th, 2014. Okay. Alright. Don’t want too long. Okay, just let me give you… It’s crazy! But how is there a picture of Elvis in our archives? It’s a picture of how is there a picture of Elvis in our archives? It’s a picture of him with a sweater on when he’s real young. I don’t know how I ever got there. Kyle, where are the pictures of Elvis in our archives? There’s something Ginny put there? I’ve never heard of this. Okay, you have something. Let me see. I’ll back it up. I’ve got it on. Well, we’re not going to get to it. You do it. I’m moving forward. Okay. Okay, but I’m telling you. Probably on… Is it on ionandbob.com? Ionandbob.com? Is that where it is? It’s great. Is it on ionandbob.com? Yes. Okay, maybe Ed put it up. Maybe Ed put it up. Okay, that makes sense. All right. Ed does pictures. Okay, so I’m going to go ahead and put it up. I’m going to put it up. Okay. I’m going to put it up. Okay. I’m going to put it up. Is it on INMBOT.com? Yes. Okay. Maybe Ed put it up. Maybe Ed put it up. Okay. That makes sense. All right. Ed does pictures. And you know, and Kyle did a lot with Elvis, so that’s why the synchronicity is he’s on the one with the picture. I think that’s what Kyle’s… Right. That’s the only reason I clicked there. Okay. Good. That’s the only reason. All right. That’s a very good reason. All right. We’re going to get someone else. So, Corbin, anything you want to say, Corbin, if you’re still awake? No, he’s gone. Susanna, did you want to say something? No. Okay. I’m going to go ahead and close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. I’m going to close the call. No, he’s gone. Susanna, did you want to say something? No, Susanna. Oh, wait a minute. Yes, Susanna, you wanted to say something? Yeah, wow, good stuff. Good. We knew we had to pause the reinforcement from you. All right. That’s all you wanted to say? You were the one that asked about the thing that brought the Pergamon. Say it again, Roxy? I was talking about Pergamon with her. Ah, with you, with you, Susie. Susanna. Right, right. I was talking about the candle, the lampstand. Right. And he said I couldn’t jump before, I couldn’t jump past the churches. The Pergamons, the Pergamons and the others, he listed them, or they listed them. I need to listen to that video some more and then what you talked about tonight was good stuff too. I can’t remember. It’s because at the end he said that the churches are the banks and the Church of Pergamon is the Deutsche Bank. Right. Which is a major bank today. So because of all these changes in the economy and in the currencies, maybe that’s something that has to happen before the lamp. Right. All these things going on now. Maybe that’s something that has to happen before the lamp. Right. Everything’s going on now. Yes. Did you hear me play the song by a band called Wilco called Impossible Germany? Yes. Yeah, I have to look up the lyrics. I didn’t get all that he was saying. Oh, that’s a great song. Yeah, Impossible Germany. Who is Wilco? Is that a band that’s been around for a while? Yeah, they were like a early 2000s era indie band that got pretty successful before things with the digital platform really started changing. They got in there just- They’re kind of one of the more contemporary indie bands. Like- Right. Yeah. In the last phase before digital chaos, digital collapse. Yeah, and there’s quite a bit of solo in that too. It’s kind of a- Yes, it was good. The one I played. Yeah, excellent solo. Yeah, yeah Yeah, that’s no fine. He’s kind of like a Anyway, yeah What it’s kind of like what? Oh I thought you had moved on he he’s just like no client is a Sort of a virtuoso on guitar, so it’s kind of cool. But some of his candor of how he plays is very obvious. And I wonder what he would think of Zappa’s stuff. Right, right. OK, thank you. Sean, did you want to say something? Hi, Bob. Yes, do you have something to say? Yes, thank you. Very good, Sharon. Yeah, I got prompted to look at light, again, how light particles move and stuff. And, like, when our cells divide, we make light. I want to ask Aron about what the RNA drops if that makes more light in the cell division. But actually, where he says B, salt and light, actually every time our cells divide, photons explode. All right. Yes, and that’s quite cool. All right. Well, if you do that, all right. And nothing to say about Zappa? I listened to some of it on the North, a lot of good things in there. It’s just too much for me to listen to all at once, all the others. Yeah, but what do you think of Zappa? What is the music? What do you think of Zappa? I really think, like you said, he was most definitely onto something and marveled at human creator. He saw these things and it’s worth it. It’s worth the time you’re giving him. Good. All right. Thank you. All right. And then Robert, do you have anything to say, Robert? Can you hear me? Yes. You blind bastard. I was telling you, you got it all over us because you’re fucking blind. We’re still fucking sighted. Well, you know, after I had taken a nap, so now I’m about after 4 in the morning here. But you know, when I went back to my bedroom and I got on the manager tramp, you know, I have a couple of rebounders. And I had lost my house keys two or three weeks ago. And I felt something under my foot and there they were and I thought oh my god I lost my new set of keys but these were the old set and I thought hmm but I don’t know how that happened I mean we look everywhere for them. Hey Robert you’re a neophyte, a novice in IONDEM. When we first were involved with iON, there was all this talk about losing keys into parallel worlds and then popping back. So you’re having one of the original experiences of an early IONET with your… Yes. Oh, another thing I was going to ask IONan, oh, I think last year or sometime a couple years ago, I put my credit card on the counter in a coffeehouse. And I felt, this is after I’d done a lot of releasing, you know, like, can you let go of disapproval, or this and that and so on. And I’m feeling really good. And then I felt something in my left hand. I thought, I wonder if this thing could stand upright by itself, you know, right on the edge. And I lift up my hand, and it was standing up. I mean, there was nothing. Well, there, it felt like a force field around it. And I was going to ask about that. And I haven’t been able to do that except one other time, and that was in the same place. Well, what was standing? You didn’t tell us what was standing. Well, it, you know, it shouldn’t be able to. There’s no way it could do that unless it had been held. What is it? You’re not telling us the noun of the paragraph. What is it that was standing? Oh, the credit card. Oh, okay. The credit card. No, it’s like when you take your credit card out, or in this case, it was a… And I was holding that edge up, you know, on the counter. The bottom of it was on the counter and the top of it was on my hand and it just felt, I felt a force field around it and I just lift my hand up and I repeated this process to several weeks later and in front of a witness too. But, you know, normally I can’t even begin to do that. and in front of a witness too, but you know, normally I can’t even begin to do that. And I was gonna ask about the, oh, the state, I was in a really good state of mind or whatever, I was feeling really good. And other times it just doesn’t work. I mean, there’s no way it could work. You know, I call it the card trick. And I thought maybe this is a way of testing to see where I’m at in my back gate, so to speak. No, that’s good. You can ask Ian about that. Yeah, I know it’s such a small thing, but still. No, no, it’s important to you. Okay, we’re going to move on. We’ve got the pending credit card, and you can ask it next week. All right, I think that’s our lurkers. Well, here’s anonymous at the bottom. Who is this anonymous at the bottom? Anonymous. So I’ve got you, Bert, right? Uh-huh. Uh, you sound weird. You sound weird. Who are you giggling in the distance? Who are you? It was Dr. What? Who are you? Hey, Bert, did you get her name? No, I didn’t get a name. I just heard a mumble or something. Roxy, did you get her name? No. It sounded like she said, Roxy, parallel world Roxy. No, it was Roxy. It was Roxy that giggled. No. I’m very quiet. No, I can see you speak through that. I can see on the template who’s speaking. Oh, who is that? Roxy. I’m on the phone. Yeah. I think it’s Roxy from 2009. Weak Roxy. Respondent. Now we call her Roxy. Well, who is speak? Come on, Anonymous call him Rocky. laughs Well who is… speak! Come on and out of it. Who are you? Look at that dude, he’s hiding. He won’t say anything. Come on! Ah, he’s saying something. What? Who are you? laughs That’s not like Rocky. Come on, speak, it’s for a thing. No, no, man. Who is it? Say it again. Be part of the love feast. Yes. That’s our Rocky. Who’s this other one? Come on, man. I’m speaking to you. What? What? What? Speak. What? What? Speak! Come on! Hey! I can see, I can see the red on the template. I can see her speaking. But, she’s not saying much. She’s coughing. Did you wander into the wrong world? Yeah, see, she’s coughing. Ahem. We’re talking to you. You. Are you talking to me? That was Roxy. No, this is the other one. Come on, who are you? Speak! You’re coughing. Wait a minute, that was Roxy. No. Yes, it was. There was another sound. No! It sounds like it. I repeated it guys. It was me. Yes it did. I repeated it. No. You’re not coming through her speaker. I can see her speaker. There’s no red coming out. You guys are speaking through other speakers. Okay. Come on. Anonymous one. Cough again. Either she doesn’t understand we’re talking to her and she’s just listening or not listening or she’s playing very hard to get. Maybe her thing is muted. No, I’ve unmuted it. You want to speak? No, but like she has us muted. She has us muted maybe. There she is. She just made a big noise. I think it’s like a monster. Hello! Hello, monster! You’re rustling around in the back basement. Speak! Again! They’re rustling around in the back basement. Speak! Again! God. Okay, let’s get going. Block her out. Him and her out. So we got one, two, three people. And Susanna. Block Susanna. two, three people. And Susanna. We’ve got Susanna. Oh, Madeline. But she’s not here. I’ve only got two people. Are you there, Bert? Yes. OK, are you there? Roxy? You hear me? Yes, Bert. And Roxy, can you just speak? Roxy? Someone just coughed. Roxy, what happened to Roxy? Lucky, I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. I’m patient. Roxy, what happened to Roxy? Lucky, I’m patient. Are you there, Alyssa? Yes. Okay, you got Bert and Alyssa. Where did Roxy go? You were here. Are you the mystery person Roxy? No. Mystery person Roxy? Oh. Did I had did I phone her? She’s been disconnected again, I think. Right, so I gotta phone her. Oh yeah, try that. Yeah, originally you felt there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was on my line so I gotta phone back. Okay. How do I send you a message on Goop? You have to, I guess you have to post more to get the… Oh yeah, I have to post more. Oh man. That’s probably why. Skype? Did you follow what Carolyn does? Did you follow? Okay. Who are you asking, Bert? Alyssa. I was going to ask if she follows Carolyn’s work. Yeah, Alyssa. Are you on board? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. All right. Did you listen on Monday? I think I’ve seen you being there on Monday. All right. You’ve been in there. Yeah, I was around for a little while, while I was making dinner. Right. Okay, let’s go forward. All right. We get up to 144, remember? Preston Love, jazz saxophonist and composer, worked with such renown. Our artist is Billy Halby. Ray Charles among many others. So this is the freakout list. That was listed 179 names. We’ll finish it tonight. 145 is Slim Harpo. What? That’s exciting. Right. Slim Harpo, blues musician, blues musician, one of the greatest exponents of blues harmonica. His song, I’m a King Bee, was a favorite of the young Frank Zappa. And then there’s Carl Cohen, K-O-H-N, Austrian composer and musicologist, taught composition at Pomona College where his students include the young Frank Zappa. In Frank Zappa’s brother’s biography of Zappa at Pompona College where his students include a young Frank Zappa. In Frank Zappa’s brother’s biography of Zappa, or memoir, he talks about Frank with some other woman. They go and visit this teacher at the University of Pompona College and Zappa asks if he can sit in, sit in on the courses and not pay, I don’t know, probably not paid and not get a credit. And Carl Cohn immediately recognized Zappa was pretty talented and let him sit in. But what astounded Carl Cohn, here’s Zappa sitting in the class and they had to write up compositions. He said Zappa would do it in ink, you know, the most professional way and never make a mistake. He was amazed at how Frank wrote out his composition. And he was just auditing. He wasn’t even in the class and he wasn’t going to get a credit. So Frank was learning for its own reason, for itself. Then there’s another guy, Bob Narciso, personal friend of Frank Zappa from his days at Studio Z, the 63-65 period. Likely to have been just a friend and not a musical associate. One… Oh, who’s that? Watch yourself there. Johnny Guitar Watson, blues, R&B guitar player, one of the finest of his or any other era and a huge influence on Zappa. They would become friends later, remaining so for the rest of Zappa’s life. Tim Sullivan, personal friend of Frank Zappa, producer and director of Run Home Slow, which Zappa scored. I think that’s a high school teacher, Tim Sullivan, but it should say that. Anyways, he directed Run Home Slow, and Zappa eventually got paid for it and I think he bought some props for that or he bought the studio or he bought both. It’s Paul Buff’s studio. 150, Sonny Tufts, American actor whose career was not particularly distinguished but whose name was referenced in jokes for years, notably in the Rocky and Bullwinkle series. So there’s Frank picking up the populist language, and there’s a guy referencing jokes like a meme, he made the list. John Wayne, legendary American actor and man’s man, also known as the Duke. And it says, possible conceptual continuity alert if you have the duke approved the duke this is the fact that some of that this lyric so the author uses possible conceptual i have heard that john wayne was called to do at a notable altercation with that but during a moment performance of the who’s coughing? Is that Alyssa? Yes. The mystery coughing woman. All right, just mute this temporarily. Well, you can’t mute, can you? You’re on my line. No, but it wasn’t me. Oh. It had to be Alyssa. It wasn’t me. Oh, it had to be Alyssa. It wasn’t me. Right, Alyssa? No. No, it wasn’t me. Well, who the hell, who could cough? It wasn’t Bert. Right, Bert? Hey, Roxy, would you say… No, it was me. No, Roxy. No, it was not me. Oh, maybe I’ve opened that. I forgot to block the anonymous person. Okay, so I’ll block… Yeah, it’s the anonymous person because you’ve got here… I forgot that Roxy is in my phone, not on the template. Okay, so we got Bert and Alyssa. So John Wayne had a notable altercation with Zappa during a mother’s performance of the Whiskey a Go Go in 1965, the result of which was Wayne, John Wayne, drunkenly clambering on stage during the show to proclaim his intent to run for the presidency of the United States. As recalled by Zappa in the real fun Zappa book. He clambered drunkly on stage and said he was going to run for president. Another story is I remember Zappa was sitting outside a club and Wayne came out and he kind of mocked Frank. He was dressed or something. That was when Frank was a nobody. He didn’t like that. So Clarence Gatemouth Brown, American blues multi-instrumentalist, another huge influence on Zappa, who treasured his copies of songs such as Okey Dokey Stomp, Junior Medeo, also known as Elwood Junior Medeo or Medeo, guitarist for Zappa’s high school bands called the Ramblers and later the Black Oats. His speaking voice can be heard on the track called the Black Oats, issued on the album The Lost Episodes in 1996. Jeff Harris, friend of Frank Zappa during his brief period attending Mission Bay High School in San Diego. Zappa would later fondly recall the time spent with Jeff Harris, making up little skits, presumably of a comedic nature with Harris. They made up little skits. Bobby Adler, a friend of Frank Zappa’s from his time in Lancaster, introduced Frank and his brother Bobby to the delights of an alcoholic beverage by the name of white port and lemon juice. What do you think of that? He’s citing a guy who’d turn him on to an alcohol drink. There’s your kitchen. Everybody contributes. And he did a song. As a matter of fact, let’s just give you a taste of that song. It’s a good song. Yeah, wine, port, and lemon juice. I wonder if he mentions this guy. What’s his name? Bobby Adler. Now I’ve got to start adjusting the buttons, though, right? Wine, port, and lemon. W-P-L-J. There’s a 1986 version, a 1969, 1969, there, many versions. So, what do I have to do to, anybody remember what buttons I gotta press? Wanna come over and help me? Think that’s everything. I have a nice idea. I think that the more sensitive of you will be quite touched by this idea. What we have here is this. You know who you are, you’re a sensitive one. He lists these events in his life. Now, following the Ionic principle of enjoy yourself in the moment, now enjoying yourself. So Mozart or Bach, when they listed their influence, they never cited a great drinking night they had some place in Munich. One night, I had a great party, it was great, definite influence on my creativity. You know? It’s like he’s citing the joy of living, his environment of himself. And so he cites these interesting people that maybe did something with him one night or one weekend that was important or maybe not even important. He just has a great memory of it. Now that’s, I don’t think people, sorry I didn’t have, I hope I was clear, I had my mic up. I don’t think anybody has ever cited influences like that. No. He played hooky one day. People mention some composers, but not like the friend, the one that gives you the drink. Yeah. He probably played hooky one day. I know that he blew up the toilets in a high school, maybe junior high school. The guy he did that with, it probably had all kinds of interesting effects on him, whether he got, I don’t know if he got caught or not, but that’s a memorable transformation in his life, the effect of doing that. So he cites that as an influence. That’s being aware of your being as a with made up of many environmental factors not saying oh I read this book or that book or this subject topics this is what’s unique I mean I I have all kind I be really good at that I could say all kinds of neat times I had with different people as a matter of fact if I ever got an Oscar or some big thing that had big honors, that’s what I’d do. I would try to cite people that I haven’t spoken to in 60 years, you know, and just mention something, mention something really particular and see if that guy would hear it. I’d love to do that. Be really obscure. So Frank to do that. It’d be really obscure. So Frank’s doing that. So that was Bobby Adler, friend of Frank Zappa from his time in Lancaster, introduced Frank and his brother Bobby to the delights of an alcoholic beverage by the name of Whiteport Lemon Juice. Daddy O. Curtis Crump, unknown personage, possibly a personal friend of Zappa or a parallel worlder who invaded Frank’s kitchen. No, sorry, that’s not me. Possibly a personal friend of Zappa or a local entertainer of some sort. I know that Zappa, he tells this story, he was out in the desert in those days and nobody knew anything and he was at a club or some place and he met this guy. And the guy took him back to his hovel of a home. And they walked in and the guy had on his record player a Stravinsky opus. Some major Stravinsky thing that Zappa loved and played but had never mentioned to anybody. Because nobody in the desert town there knew who Stravinsky thing that Zappa loved and played but had never mentioned to anybody because nobody in the desert town there knew who Stravinsky was. But there in the desert he found this guy who knew Stravinsky and he talked about this, you know, ten years later in an interview. That’s pretty neat. He talked about this odd guy and he had a pretty unique trailer with these kind of objects in it. So that’s pretty neat. Karlheinz Stockhausen, 157, Karlheinz Stockhausen, German composer, a pioneer in the field of electronic music and a huge influence on a number of progressively minded composers of the day in both the serious and rock music fields. Joe Houston, jazz R&B saxophone player. His All Night Long was one of Zappa’s favorite songs and was covered by the Mothers of Invention in 1969. Zappa misspelled Houston on the list. He spelled it H-U-S-T-O-N rather than H-O-U. H-O-U-S-T-O-N rather than H-O-U, H-O-U-S-T-O-N. Chuck Higgins, R&B saxophone player. His Pachuco Hop was a favorite of Zappa’s and was covered by the Mothers of Invention in 1969. Did you ever hear the term Pachuco Rock or Wop or anything in Mexico, Roxy? Is that a term? No. It’s an L.A. term for the Mexicans in LA. Yeah, only the Pachuco but that I don’t… What is Pachuco to you? Yeah, 50s, the Mexican… The Zoot Suiters? …to America. The Zoot Suiters. Yes, they had this very extreme look. Right. Like they would wear very, very white pants. Yes. Contrary of now that young people use them very low. They will use it very high, very long jackets and sometimes they have feathers on their hats. Right. What did the word pachuco mean? It’s some type of slang. I don’t know exactly what they would refer to. I only know it’s this type of fashion. Right. Okay, 160, Big Jay McNeely, another R&B sax player, a particular favorite of Zappa, who owns several of McNeely’s recordings. Jim Sherwood, also known as Motorhead, lifelong friend of Zappa, lived at Studio Z in Cucamonga for a time, wrote E4 and later a member of the Mother’s Invention. And I would add, Carol and I were with Motorhead in the little cottage that’s on the cover of Grand Wazoo the night that Zappa was with John Lennon closing the Film or East. I think it was June 4th and 5th, 1971. That night I was in Frank’s house while he was with Lennon. That must mean something in terms of interpersonal alchemy. I was explaining earlier alchemy is walking around interacting with people, with your body. I was in, when Fonny, Frank and Lennon played together, I was in Frank’s house. Isn’t that amazing? That’s pretty alchemical. And now you’re here. Now I’m here and you guys are in my ear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’re in everybody else’s ear that’s listening. Actually, we’re in their central nervous system, not the ear. So Motorhead, who just passed away recently, there was an interview with him, I guess he left LA and he’s wearing a cowboy uniform and he’s like in Colorado or some place interviewing for some documentary and he was remembering Zappa and he started crying in the interview. That was interesting. And this is a guy who knew Frank in high school. Also, you know, crashed at Frank’s. 162, Sandy Schwankamp, girlfriend of Zappa during his days at Antelope Valley High School. Her parents allegedly moved her to a private school when they felt that their daughter was getting too close to the young Mr. Zappa. Now in the interview that Bob Marshall and I did with Zappa, Zappa brings up a girlfriend in high school that he was having sex with and his parents, her parents moved them away. He didn’t give the name, but I guess this is who it is. They forced the daughter, moved her or the family, everything moved. And I always wondered if that affected Zappa emotionally in terms of was it his first love, long love. He remembered, did he care? Probably not. Sandy Schwankamp, girlfriend of Zappa during his days at Antelope Valley High School. Her parents allegedly moved her to a private school when they felt that their daughter was getting too close to the young Mr. Zappa. Nadine Reyes, friend of Frank Zappa, a fellow attendee of Antelope Valley High School. Kay Sherman, Frank’s first wife. The dissolution of their marriage had a profound effect on his world view. On the list, it’s spelled K-A-Y-E, but here it’s K-A-Y. Donald Woods, vocalist for two of Zappa’s favorite doo-wop combos, the Medallions and the Bel-Airs, wrote and recorded the song, The Man from Utopia, which Zappa covered for the album of the same name in 1983. Richard Berry, R&B pianist, vocalist, and composer, wrote that all-time conceptual continuity smash, Louie Louie. Now, they’re saying that if Zappa repeats something, that’s, you know, one album, next album, one scene, another scene, he repeats Louie Louie. They’re calling that conceptual continuity. I don’t think that’s what, that’s content. I don’t think that’s conceptual continuity. I don’t know if I could define it, but I wouldn’t want to limit it to just something being repeated. So I raised that question, what would be conceptual continuity if it wasn’t just some repeating motif? the conceptual continuity if it wasn’t just some repeating motif. Huggie Boy, Los Angeles area disc jockey, real name Dick Hug, who spun a lot of Zappa’s favorite rock and R&B records. Vernon Green, R&B vocalist, leader of one of Zappa’s favorite doo-wop combos, The Medallions. We had that earlier. That was Donald Woods, vocalist for the medallions. Vernon Green, vocalist for the medallions. Or he was in there. I don’t know if he was vocalist for them. Well, I guess it was Doo-Wop. They’re all vocalists, so yes, he was. Coined the immortal line, quote, let me whisper sweet words of pizmotality in his song, The Letter. This spelled green with an E by Zappa on the list. Let me whisper sweet words of Piz Motality in his song, The Letter. Hunter Hancock, Los Angeles area disc jockey, a favorite of Zappa’s, who would tune in to hear his favorite R&B and rock records being played by Hunter Hancock. Now we’re at 170. So this is the countdown up to 179. Willie Mae Thornton, also known as Big Mama, blues vocalist and songwriter, wrote the classic Hound Dog, made famous by Elvis Presley. 171, Lightning Slim, also known as Otis Hicks, blues guitar player and a notable influence on Zappa, though not one he discussed publicly very often. 172. Roger Huntington Sessions, American composer, made extensive use of serial and atonal compositional techniques, which Zappa also incorporated into his own compositional palette. American composer, 173. His technique of melodic lines colliding into each other was mined by Zappa for several of his own compositions. One such piece, titled Charles Ive, was played live extensively by the Mothers of Invention in 1969. Maybe we’ll play that later. 174, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, American beat generation poet. The only one of the beats to be acknowledged by Zappa on the list, although we do know that Zappa was also notably influenced by the great William S. Burroughs. 175. Terry Wimberly, piano player for Zappa’s high school R&B group, The Blackouts. In this integrated group, Wimberly was said by Zappa to have, quote, represented all the other oppressed peoples of the earth, unquote. His speaking voice can be heard on the track The Black Oats, released on the 1996 album The Lost Episodes. Donnie Franklin, alto sax player for Zappa’s high school R&B group The Black Oats, later played bass in Zappa’s bar band which performed at the Village Inn in Sun Village, California in early 1965. Name check in Frank Zappa’s song Village of the Sun from the 1974 album Roxy and Elsewhere. 177. Teddy Bunn, American jazz guitarist, husband of Thelma Bunn, owner of the Village Inn in Sun Village, California, where Zappa played weekend gigs in early 65. Teddy would play jazz guitar for patrons in between Zappa’s sets. That’s Teddy Bun. 178. Jeepers, American TV character played by Bob Guy. Jeepers was the host of Jeepers Creepers, a Los Angeles area TV show which aired some of the god awful B-movie horror films that Zappa loved. Frank Zappa wrote and recorded both sides of a single, Dear Jeepers and Letter from Jeepers with Bob Guy at Pal, recorded with Bob Guy at Pal Studio in Cucamonga in 1963. And the last guy, very important guy in Zappa’s life, Paul Buff, who we saw a picture of, a videotape of him, Rashi and I both saw it, and he looked like Rumpelstiltskin. Really did look weird. And he’s the guy, Paul Buff, the last guy on the list. Carolyn has a t-shirt she got from Jerry Fialca which says, I know Paul Buff personally. And typical of Carolyn, she never fucking knew him. She never met the fucker. And so that’s another lie brought to us by Dr. Dean. Who’s in another world right now. We can talk about her. But it says, I know Paul Buff personally. We didn’t know what he looked like. And then we turned out he looked like a little gnome. A rumplestiltskin gnome. At least in the last couple of years. So he went on to be a big, big important guy in Nashville. But he had this very advanced recording studio. So it says here, oh yeah, so then Carol is in a picture book, glossy New York book, with her T-shirt. And I called up Paul Buff, got a hold of him, and told him to go look at the book and see his T-shirt in this classy book with Sting’s wife and other people of note. And the unknown, Dr. Dean. Who put her in there? Why? I don’t know. 179, Paul Buff. American inventor, engineer, musician, flash, lighting, designer, and more. Personal friend of Frank Zappa. Gave the fledgling composer his first big break when he employed Frank at his pal recording studio in Cucamonga. Buff later sold the studio to Frank Zappa who renamed it Studio Z. Okay, and then it says, below the lengthy list of names on the lower right side of the inner gatefold sleeve, so the inner album cover, is the track list for the album. Each song is given a brief explanation, which is by Turin’s humors. It says, for Hungry Freak’s Daddy, that it is dedicated to Carl Franzoni, who Frank Zappa predicts, quote, will move next door to you and your lawn will die, unquote. Now, Carl Franzoni, as soon as Gail Zappa died a couple months ago, Carl Franzoni put together a video, a tribute to Gail, and for the first time we see Carl Franzoni, at least what he looks like today. And he talks about Gail being the prettiest girl in Hollywood and a great person. And he made a nice video of her with pretty good pictures, obscure pictures. A comment, okay, Zappa, his songs, he puts cynical. For the song, Any Way the Wind Blows, in which Zappa addresses his divorce from Kay Sherman, he has, you don’t care, meaning the audience is cynical. Cynical or revealing is the characteristics of the liner notes. That’s what makes for any way the wind blows. This track list is surrounded on either side by a collection of black and white photographs. Some of these were taken during the recording sessions for the album, including a very nice shot of Mothers Roy Estrada and Elliot Ingber cutting backing tracks alongside the studio orchestra on the second day of sessions. And some photographs were added by Jack Inesh without Zappa’s knowledge or approval added to the album cover, which is not to suggest that these additions required Zappa’s approval. They did not. I mean, Zappa did not have the clout to insist on approval of the album cover art at this point. Particularly galling to Zappa was the inclusion of a shot of members of a group called The Enemies, who were signed to MGM at the time. He was also not pleased with a shot of songwriter P.F. Sloan, misspelled Sloan in the credit with an E, who was said to be testing the Timpani at Frico, at the studio. On the plus side, one photograph featured members of the freak contingent, referred to as charter members of the United Mutations of Los Angeles, including Emperor Vito and Crown Prince Carl Franzoni, who I just cited making that homage to Gale. Included among these photos on the first pressing of the album was an advertisement for a freakout hotspots map which could be obtained by sending $1 to MGM Records. The map, which was designed by Zappa, featured all of the freakiest places on the LA scene at the time, including clubs such as the Whiskey a Go Go and the trip alongside eateries such as Ben Franks. Unfortunately, not only was the map not completed by the time the album was released, but it would not be completed by Zappa until early 67. Later pressings would remove this ad altogether from the packaging. So the first pressing of the album on it was an advertisement for Freak Out Hotspot. Now I have a copy of that. So that’s the end of that. Now my job now is to find an interesting Zappa article that will illustrate our theory. So what? Will it just be serendipitous? I’ll just open to a random place and find something by Frank. Yes. This is a quote I make all the time. In the August 8, 1969, Los Angeles Free Press, that’s J.W.’s birthday, Frank was interviewed. And the quote they have from it, he goes like this, he says, it’s all, all, capital letters, it’s all serious intent. I seriously intended to make that album sound exactly the way it sounds. And some people can’t understand that you can seriously want to do something that’s not serious. What we do and have from the very beginning is concept art. You know? Like the real artistic merit of what we do does not necessarily exist on the disc itself. Now there’s a clue to what conceptual continuity is. Not the contents. Not on the disc. That’s also your Opus Remagnus. It’s like you’re doing something very serious, but with fun. Ayan is totally that way. He did it again today. We gotta get you guys out of here before you get killed, but be easy about it. We don’t care if you die. It doesn’t matter if you get killed but be easy about it we don’t care if you die, it doesn’t matter if you get killed. We’ll come back. Now that’s we’re not clear on the coming back and still this whole thing of reincarnation and how people have many lives or not and still be the same person that has not been adequately addressed by my opinion. Then he says, talking about who Rossi is supposed to get in touch with, Pauline Olivero, he says some of the ideas are below the level of human consciousness and some of them are above the level of human consciousness. And in the middle is this peculiar byproduct, which is the manifestation of what those ideas are. So that’s a good quote that they picked. Very good. Right. Let’s see what’s next. All right. Here’s a good article. Circus Magazine, in July 1969, we saw in June 69, Circus Magazine had many quotes by Zappa, including his list of favorites. If you remember, he free associates, guitar, humping, girl, humping, woman, humping, car, humping, America, no comment, LA, police, New York, police, teenager, Coca-Cola, Beatles, entertainers, today, dull, tomorrow, same thing only better, guesthouse, something big, influences, Edgar Perez, Stravinsky, Cage, Waters, Hawley and Wolfe, The Nutmegs, Gord Wainer Smith, science fiction writer and Theodore Sturgeon. So that was in the June issue of Circus Magazine and the next month, probably recorded the same time they interviewed Zappa, it says Rock and Revolution, a symposium with John Kay, who was he? Steppenwolf. Was he Steppenwolf? John Kay, Frank Zappa, Phil Oaks and Country Joe. And it’s an important symposium. It’s one of the few of Zappa talking to other people of his generation in a debate, semi-debate. Now, it’s a long thing, but maybe it would be interesting just to register what each person says. What do you think? Good, eh? Everybody’s with me on this? Of course. This is 1969, you’ve had global turmoil in 1968 and 1969, and so people, the fans of the Beatles are now listening to John Lennon and advocating revolution. So this is called Rock and Revolution. What do you predict Frank would say in this theme about Rockin’ Revolution? Yeah, Betty, can you make some general predictions of what his opinion is going to be? No, he was not against, I mean, he was not for revolution. Not like… Right. Those dumb kids, they want to take his 8,000 member audience and go around the corner and burn down the NATO building. He thought that was a sign of bad mental health. Like a child. Bocastro. Would you say Bocastro? He did not support… Not that type of revolution. He was into you changing your own environment. Yeah. And perfecting yourself like the alchemist, but not like that type of revolution. Not an ideologue. Yeah. He was into you changing your own environment. Yeah. And perfecting yourself like the alchemist, but not like that type of revolution. Not an ideologue. Yeah. He was into you changing your own environment. Yeah. And perfecting yourself like the alchemist, but not like that type of revolution. Yeah. And perfecting yourself like the alchemist, but not like that type of revolution. Not an ideologue. Yeah. And perfecting yourself like the alchemist, but not like that type of a religion. Not an ideologue. Don’t get trapped in the ideological program. Okay, so let’s see what he says. The article says, As the traditional structures of now remember the global theater is causing this not humans the the mixture of TV radio computers and Satellites and other stuff he’s causing the collapse of all the walls, but this is just a typical teenage magazine Journalists trying to sound intelligent so he says as the traditional structures of family, religion, and politics diminish in power and influence, it is becoming clear that music, specifically rock music, is emerging as the most inclusive and binding force among the majority of young people in America today. Rock music has the power to bring together what God, mum, or apple pie can’t. Secondarily as an entertainer and primarily as a spokesman and often the embodiment of a collective and for now an underground system of values. The blacks, the poor and the young have this in common. They look upon America as a country that is no longer theirs. They are ready for revolution and the music reflects this. The Chicago Convention of 1968 seems to have been the ultimate traumatizing experience, which in one fell swoop brought all the loose ends together into a horrifying clear vision of exactly how far gone things really were. Well Bob was saying in 67 everything had disappeared, it didn’t go that far. These people still think there’s something to notice. In talking with the musicians, in talking with the musicians for this interview, one of the most frequently used phrases were, quote, well at this point I just don’t know anymore, unquote. That was repeated over and over like a litany of bewilderment. You definitely know Zappa wouldn’t be saying that. There exists a wide spectrum of opinion within the scope of their dissatisfaction, ranging from John Kay’s advocation of strategic violence to Joe McDonald’s insistence on peaceful coexistence. A common vein of anger and frustration runs through all the replies, the exception being Frank Zappa, who always seems to be equal to his situation, be it national, global, or cosmic." Zappa said, see? Global or cosmic, wow. Yeah. you see? Global or cosmic, wow. Yeah, they quote to him, sure it’s bad, but that sure ain’t gonna stop me, why should it? Now that’s a major ionic statement. You ever heard one? Really? He says it’s not gonna fall on him. Sure it’s bad, but that sure ain’t gonna stop me, why should it? Wow, isn’t that an amazing statement? Yes, and he’s beyond the global village, when everybody was talking about that. He was already considering the cosmic and the dimensional. The journalist says Zappa is equal to a situation. Zappa, the journalist says, always seems to be equal to a situation, be it national, global, or cosmic. Frank was bigger than Jupiter, like I said on Sequel In in 1987. So the journalist says, well, we’re gathered here on what’s practically the eve of the Chicago Convention. But that’s a year later. It’s now almost a year later. As the dusk, so this means this is in August 69. As the dusk clears, we find ourselves with Richard Nixon as president and the Chicago conspirators, that’s the Chicago Eight, facing jail terms and fines. Somehow it doesn’t seem as if things are getting better or that there is much chance that they will. As musicians whose work and very existence is often seen as being subversive, subversive in quotes, and as individuals concerned with making a place for yourselves within America, 1969, how do you feel about what’s going down? Now Phil’s folks, Phil Oakes, famous folk musician, who was in some ways equal to Dylan, but didn’t have the same breaks, and was vulnerable, he got very depressed in the early 70s, he killed himself in 1976. He’s written about in Dylan’s first girlfriend’s book, The Freewheeling, A Freewheeling Time by Susie Rotolo, I recommend the book. She talks about knowing Phil Oaks. And when she saw him in the 70s, he just got more and more depressed and suicidal looking. So Phil Oaks is the first to answer. How do you feel about what’s going down? He says, I don’t know. I just see nothing but terrible things coming up. See, there he is predicting his future. I see the Vietnamese war coming right home and the same story being replayed here. I see an awful lot of people being killed here, an awful lot. I tend to think the country’s going to be destroyed. I don’t see how it could be saved. If it is saved, it’s only going to be after some fantastic amount of violence. And out of the ruins will come a smaller, saved, in quotes, saved version of America. Hey listen, I’m just going to mute Oakes by saying, you mean like McLuhan’s vision of America as a network of independent principalities? Which is a very good point that McLuhan made in the Playboy interview a couple of months before. So this kid would have maybe just read the McLuhan interview and noticed that. I’ve never seen anybody really highlight that prediction other than me. You mean like McLuhan’s vision of America as a network of independent principalities? Folks, quite a possibility, but I think the wounds run pretty deep. I have a kind of biblical feeling of moral reckoning, like by the laws of God and nature, it’s just got to come right back to us. The proverbial day of reckoning. But at bottom I really don’t know. I mean I used to. In my earlier arrogance, I always thought I had a clear light vision of where everything was at politically. And so on. But now there’s so much pure madness, it’s very difficult to figure anything out. Now that’s a simple time compared to today, but they thought everybody was mad back then. And it was pastoral compared to today in many ways. So he says, but now there’s so much pure madness that it’s very difficult to figure anything out. So he’s trying to judge the content. He hasn’t learned his McLuhan talents for looking at the laws of form and not get lost in the confusing content. So then country Joe McDonald, he says, I find it very difficult to find out where politics is at just at this time, so it’s difficult to align myself one way or another. I’m doing my thing and some of it is political. It always has been. Some of it is ambiguous enough to be related to the revolution and probably will be. But it’s not as overtly political as it used to be, meaning his own approach. St. Nicholas says, the beer is here. Question, what did Chicago do to your head? I understand you were there during the convention last summer, Joe McDonald says. What did Chicago do to your head? I understand you were there during the convention last summer." Joe McDonald says, We were really enthusiastic and really very naive right from the beginning. We were talking about it for seven months before it happened, and at that time we were hoping for a kind of mammoth-loving music festival. But in between, I got turned off, McCarthy, and found out he was really nothing, not even a hype, just nothing. A week before the convention, we publicly withdrew our support from the Yippies and split. Then Zappa comes in. Zappa says, there was a fire in the place we were playing at in Chicago. That was a boat a week before the convention. We were getting stopped by the cops. We had to buy them off right and left. So Zappa is noting how the police were really after long hairs the week before the convention. You had to pay bribery. That’s literally how you take it. So then Phil Oakes says, after Chicago, this Great Depression came over me. See, and he never got over it. The new album, called Rehearsals for Retirement, touches on this quite a bit. That is, the idea behind it is the death of the old concept of America. The songs generally relate to that. The final death agony of the liberal electoral myth of politics. The album runs a kind of cycle, like things are getting worse and worse, we get engulfed in paranoia, we turn to drugs or mysticism or meditation, and in that state the cops come in like a huge shockwave. Then Chicago, the try and salvage thing, and democracy dies before our eyes, almost like a Broadway play. And then there are some rather mythic things like the song about the submarine Scorpion. It sank without a trace, and I got the idea that the captain and crew decided to stay down there because they got so disillusioned with life in America. Before Chicago, I was a long-time radical singer. I was supporting McCarthy, much to the criticism of the other radicals. I was at the conservative part of the radical movement at that point, and still trying to help create the yippie and the pig and everything else. Plus supporting mobilization in terms of sober left-wing politics. It all came to a head in Chicago, and it all collapsed for me at that point." And he cites lyrics, Phil Oakes. This is called, William Butler Yeats Visits Lincoln Park and Escapes Unscathed. Lincoln Park is where a lot of the riots took place in Chicago at the convention. So his lyrics say, the towers cracked and trembled, and the boats were tossed about when the fog rolled trembling, the temple trembles. Oh, then there is, then there’s a quote from the Rolling Stones, Street Fighting Man, Everywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, everywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy, cause summer’s here and the time is right for rising in the streets. Boy, boy, do you know what? So the guy says, what about violence? Do you see it serving a purpose? It certainly is part and parcel of the American way of doing things. McDonald says, I think violence is a self-destructive trip. If some guy thinks he can wipe me out and vice versa, we’re existing in an atmosphere of paranoia. And in that atmosphere, we can never liberate our minds and if we can’t do that our potential as a race is pretty much wasted. So then Zappa comes in and says, the chance for a violent revolution in America is always there. There’s always that many stupid people. I think it would be a ridiculous waste of time, a typical loser’s revolution. Makes me vomit to hear the word. People don’t know what a revolution is. Everything that they ever read, everything they ever thought about a revolution is completely irrelevant to this day and age, especially in the United States. There are more subtle ways to the altering of things. It’s not a question of picking everything up and dumping it and starting over again. I simply don’t believe that. There are a lot of good things about the way society is set up today. The main problem is education. The education of the people who elect those representatives. An uneducated mass cannot function in a democracy. You just can’t make a rational decision about a governmental representative if you’re voting for a smilers close. If you’re voting for a smilers close. It’s a question of being provided with inferior software. Their computing mechanism is just not supplied with the proper software to allow them to make the right kind of decision. That reminds me of the imagery of the robots in his play, Captain Beefheart and the Grunt People. This is maybe what he’s imagining. People, it’s a question being provided with inferior software. Their computing mechanism is just not supplied with the proper software to allow them to make the right kind of decision. They compute a problem and come out with, well, you feed in 2 plus 2 equals and they come out with something like 75. I feel a particular promise, believe it or not, in short-haired kids from suburban middle-class families, the ones who never wanted to be hippies. Those are the ones who are going to change it. Right now they’re around 15 years old. The long-haired guys are too stoned, too stoned to make rational decisions. They come up with answers to social and political problems that are just completely beyond their comprehension. I wouldn’t want to have any part of a revolution engineered and executed by today’s crop of young rebels because they wouldn’t have the faintest idea of what to do after they took over." So that’s kind of what Rocksteed predicted. Then it says, John Kay, there are many people who get stoned out of their minds and do a lot of talking. Maybe some of them are really doing something, even though they are misguided in some cases. Zappa has really, he addresses Frank, Zappa has really taken too much of an opposite viewpoint though, possibly because he doesn’t get stoned. What he says is an oversimplification, mainly because drugs and long hair don’t always go hand in hand. The suburban short hairs that he talks about are into as big a drug scene as anyone else. I do agree that there is a fringe layer that gets stoned out of their minds and does a lot of talking. Maybe some of them are really active, but it’s a gross exaggeration to say that if you turn on, you become negated as a social or political force. I don’t think that drugs do anything in general to become negated as a social or political force. I don’t think that drugs do anything in general to everyone. Each person reacts in his own way. Some drop out and become totally unproductive. Others go through a cycle of getting disillusioned, dropping out, getting bored with doing nothing, and finally coming back into the system. Let me read that again. Some drop out and become totally unproductive. Others go through a cycle of getting disillusioned, dropping out, getting bored with doing nothing, and finally coming back into the system. Their heads are just as wide as when they were taking acid, but they want to be active again. I think Frank is wrong in that respect. What’s probably closer to the truth is a conglomeration of people, short-haired, long-haired, stoned, and so on. Actually, the ones who will really change the laws will be the law students in college now and the people who will be voting in five or six years. So, then… Question. The journalist says, then, do you think that the existing political systems are pretty much irrelevant right now? Country Joe McDonald. Yeah, irrelevant. That’s still necessary. But it’s not the system that matters. It’s the attitude of the people involved in the system. If they’re out to get the best ideal for the rest of the people within that system, then that makes all the difference. But you can’t just abolish systems. People need those structures. It’s just the motives of the people running them that get corrupted. What has to happen is a global community. Actually, we are a global community. It’s just a matter of realizing it. We’re all depending on one another anyway. We’re all depending on one another anyway. Zappa says, the biggest joke I ever heard was America described as a melting pot because none of it ever melted. Question how about the normal channels of change, elections, referendums, courts, the whole democratic process? John Kay says there’s really no way to bring about substantial change through the regular channels, but demonstrations aren’t going to do it either. What I’m saying is that frustrated emotional outbursts generally accomplish nothing except getting a lot of people busted. And what we’re interested in is a positive end result. Saint Nicholas goes, yes! The tailbone end. Woo-wee! I guess he’s just a guy who’s eating the food that was delivered. So then there’s a quote from The Mother’s Invention, the song called The Mother People. It says, do you think that my pants are too tight? Do you think that I’m creepy? Better look around before you say you don’t care. Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair. How would you survive if you were alive? Something little person. How would you survive if you were alive? Sexy little person. Maybe it’s that. Okay, the journalist says, how do you see your music in relation to kids in America? John K., depends. They all have varied opinions. Some of them say that they’re just, some of them say that you’re just saying something they felt anyway, which in itself is good because everybody needs a support or a crutch. Everybody needs a support or a crutch. You know, quote, ah ha, there’s another one like me, unquote. There are others who differ with you and some who wish you’d express yourself in a more shocking manner. It all varies, but very few of them have no reaction. The music is thought provoking. I’m more concerned with the young kids who have no exposure to very much of anything, rather than the kids who are going to be at the Fillmore this weekend. They can go almost any weekend. They know all the groups. The kids in Iowa or Montana get very little of the rock scene, so they’re ready to grab at anything and dig the hell out of it. So there’s more. Zappa says, it’s a different thing with young kids. They should be aware because they’re going to have to take over the duties of the old people. They’re prepared to learn and they can accept all those changes. The old people are simply hardened in their ways. But most of the boys and girls of America are the same as the mothers and fathers of America. They’re just little carbon copy duplicates. They think the same thoughts and they act the same way. They’ll eventually belong to the same political party. They’re going to take up right where money and where mommy and daddy left off. In order for the ones who have been able to save themselves from that fate, in order for them to continue and do good work, they have to be shown that somebody appreciates the fact that they escaped. We appeal to those people. We let them know that anybody can create their own spaces within the world." Don K says, precisely. Wait a minute, did you realize that was Zappa? I I tuned out. He says they think the same thoughts and they act the same way. They’ll eventually belong to the same political party. They’re going to take up right where mommy and daddy left off. In order for the ones who have been able to save themselves from that fate, in order for them to continue and do good work, they have to be shown that somebody appreciates the fact that they escaped. We appeal to those people. We let them know that anybody can create their own spaces within the world. So that’s Frank and John Kay goes, precisely. That’s why they look for the underground press and rock as a medium. Then we go there and perform. Then the kids come backstage and ask us questions, trying to find out if we’re really sincere in what we’re doing and if we have any suggestions as to their particular dilemma. They want to identify with one another as some sort of organization where they know they are part of a movement. It’s the old thing. There’s safety in numbers and power in numbers. I think in some cases, although I can understand the frustration, it’s too early to go out and change things violently. I feel it would be a lot better to use that energy to get more people on your side rather than some of the activities that are now directed at overthrowing certain things that you’re disenchanted with. Question, what about kids? Do they seem any different from the people who you grew up with? Councilor Joe McDonald says, Well, there seem to be more and more of them. They always were there, but not so noticeably. They’re expanding their perceptions and consciousness to the point where the concepts of reality and the structures that go with it are constantly being torn up, are constantly being torn down and enlarged. John K. comes in and says, the kids that are 12 to 16 that are living in the Midwest and the South are in that adolescent stage of development where they would like to survive and be individualists. A lot of them shuck school, parents, church, and whatever other influences they’ve had. However, a lot of them don’t. It’s extremely important to recruit them right now so they don’t wind up sitting on the fence and are on our side. Quotes Revolution 1 by the Beatles. You say you want a revolution. Well, you know we all want to change the world. You tell me that it’s evolution. Well, you know we all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction don’t you know that you can count me out or in. Someone put in out dash in. So the journalist asked John Kay, so what are you going to do? John Kay says, I’m as confused as the next guy as to where it’s going to go and what we’re going to do and what it’s going to solve once we do get and what it’s going to solve once we do get there. But one thing that I’m definitely for is change. I’d rather take the risk, Mr. Zappa, of finding out that it may not work out than to just sit back and accept what is here and now because I’m definitely not pleased with it. I’m radical to a degree and I do believe that the time for nonviolence may be over. But on the other hand, I think it’s somewhat silly to take a few thousand isolated people and push them into a violent action that is supposed to produce change. If you don’t really have the support of a large number of people, I don’t think you can accomplish very much. Zappas says, I like the idea of allowing things to happen and that idea is in quotes. So he’s coming after John Kay for putting him down. They had to give equal billing photographs to people. No, nothing there. Okay. Yes, the kids in Iowa or Montana get very little of the rock scene and so they’re ready to grab at anything and dig the hell out of it. That is what the know nothing John Kay says. He’s always saying, well I don’t know. Zappa says it’s a different thing with young kids. They should be aware because they’re going to have to take over the duties of the old people. They’re prepared to learn and they can accept all those changes. The old people are simply hardened in their ways, but most of the boys and girls of America are the same as the mothers and fathers of America. They’re just little carbon copy duplicates. They think the same thoughts and they act the same way. They’ll eventually belong to the same political party. They’re going to take up right where mommy and daddy left it up. Right, they’re going to take up, they’re going to take up right where mommy and daddy left off. In order for the ones who have been able to save themselves from that fate, in order for them to continue and do good work, they have to be shown that somebody cares. The fact that they escaped. be shown that somebody cares. The fact that they escaped, we appeal to those people. We let them know that anybody can create their own spaces within the world. So John Kay is telling Frank to carry the load. I’ve heard John Kay a couple of times but I don’t know what he was doing there. He’s a professor, I think, at a nearby university. So he is not articulating what he objects to Frank. Now, we still have the rest of the article. Let’s see what it says. So, as APA says, we appeal to those people. We let them know that anybody can create their own spaces within the world. Kay says, precisely. That’s why they look for the underground press and rock as a medium. Then we go there and perform, and the kids come backstage and ask us questions, trying to find out if we’re really sincere in what we’re doing, and if we have any suggestions as to their particular dilemma. They want to identify with one another, have some sort of organization where they know they are part of a movement. Okay, so are you still there? Anybody here? Hey. Oh, did I mute you? Are you still here? Maybe it’s for… Who’s here? Okay. Are you anybody? Yes. Who’s that? Okay, that’s Bert. Bert. And Roxy… Did Roxy drop off again? Not here. She should be on your line. I heard her. That’s Bert. Bert. And Roxy, did Roxy drop off again? Not here. She should be on your line. I heard her. I know. I know. And then she’s not there now, so I’ve got to phone her back. That’s that. All right. So mingle among yourself, Bert. Oh, where’s Alyssa? Which one’s Alyssa? Where is she? There she is. Is that you’s Alyssa? Which one’s Alyssa? Where is she? There she is. Is that you, Alyssa? Alyssa, did you just rustle the paper? Somebody there. That’s a stranger. It won’t speak. Maybe Alyssa went to sleep. Yeah. Okay. So you’ll have to talk to yourself, Bert. Maybe do a little monologue. Let’s see if you can handle monologue, Bert. Discuss your issues with the audience while I go get Roger. on Address the world. Did I screw up, Bert? Did I get the right one? So where are you, Bert? Are you here? Yes. All right, that’s you. Yes. Okay, You’re there. Now I’m saying, do a monologue for a minute while I go get Roxy. Tell the people what you really think. Be honest for once, Bert. Alright. Alright. I won’t be there any further. Ninety percent of all crimes that are taking place corporately are due to magnesium deficiency. There was an article that we discussed two weeks ago regarding was Tom Hayes running the biggest financial conspiracy in history and on the first page of this Yo-Yo androamine discussion, they state that Tom Hayes had Asperger’s Syndrome. And if you look at what Asperger’s Syndrome is, it’s some form of autism spectrum disorder on a severity scale. But apparently this guy could work. So it’s a form of magnesium deficiency because if you look at what’s going on in the magnesium world, some forms of autism can be treated with magnesium. And if this guy could work, and he did this massive scheme, by the way the article that article that Bob mentioned about was he running the biggest finance conspiracy was just an Android Meme putting a face to the whole scam. If you read the whole article it gives you a whole like a yo-yo journalistic view of what took place, what he did. But if you read the clues, they just put a face to the conspiracy that the bank he was working for and all the banks who were collaborating, they just put some names and faces and sent them away to jail. So I say again, 90 to 95% of all corporate white collar crimes are due to magnesium deficiency. Also, Dr. Dean in this blog also… Oh, you heard it. You heard it, good. I agree. Oh, it is. I mean, I read that article, and it gives you like a yo-yo, an Android Meme, yo-yo journalism. Because looking at Bob’s chart, you see all the different quadrants, and when you read, when I read this article, it gave you so many different views that at the end you really didn’t know you only believe that this Michael Hayes committed this crime but if you read between the lines it was a collaboration of so many different levels the brokers against the traders the traders you know it was a whole big scheme and he did do it but he was not alone and the banks had to allow him to do that because of his position it wasn’t like he was like uh… uh… jesse james or uh… bonnie and clive where he was just all of a sudden wanted to take over i mean they paid they the banks were paying this guy money but the in the end he had asperger’s disease which is sort of like a personality kind of like a, they characterize him like he was like the Rain Man. But if you look at Asperger’s, it’s a form of autism, but apparently it’s a form of autism that people can walk around and function within the workplace. But also, Carolyn posted on her blog, I’ll keep bringing it up, but there was a PBS special, Supplements and Safety. And I listened to this video, I listened to it once and watched it, and it’s so, it’s sort of like the visual version of this article I read with Tom Hayes is that they give you so many different views, but they have so many, they have like authoritative figures, doctors, and the stuff that the doctors were talking about was just unbelievable, unbelievable, talking about supplements and how if… One thing that was interesting is they had… they made…at the end they made a statement that 15 attorney generals were going to make action to bring more reform and they actually brought reform where they shut down like a hundred different… different supplement agency due to lack of regulation and then they made it was really just a really cross really a quick andrew mean yo-yo journalism they covered so many things but it’s just bullshit unbelievable how they’re talking about supplements now unbelievable but courses up and companies are run by the Carlyle Group so it’s playing, what, the middle playing against both sides because you have the pharmacy and then you have the supplement companies which are becoming just, I mean they’re just the natural synthetic version of vitamins or what they used to be. And I think I remember vitamins of what they used to be. And I think I remember Bob talking earlier about the medicine. We were talking earlier, the subject was about medicinal part of flowers or food or something. So that’s, if anyone, you want to give an example of the Android Meme yo-yo journalism, that supplements and safety that Carolyn posted on a blog is really something. It’s unbelievable, unbelievable what they’re trying to poison, well they have already poisoned, but you’re just propagating against supplements and minerals. That’s my monologue. Bob. That was awesome. That was very good, Bert. And did you read the Tom Hayes, whatever his name is, article that I mentioned you went into in depth? Read the whole thing? Yeah, I read the whole thing. I read the whole thing. It was unbelievable. He did it, but they just – it’s the whole thing. I read the whole thing. It was unbelievable. He did it, but they just, it’s the Android Meme, just they had to put a face to the crimes that the bank committed. But a human. Pretend there was still a human. Yeah, a human. Yeah, a human, yeah. But in the end, he has magnesium deficiency. He has an Asperger’s. Right. Autism. Yeah, that’s. Right. Autism. Yeah, that’s good you read it all. He works and functions, but he… It’s quite interesting, the dilemma the guy got put in. He was the king of the hill for a few minutes, and then they needed a scapegoat, and he was a nice, maybe an isolated guy. Perfect for… Nobody cared about being friends of his right and they scooped him up it’s almost like he was set up but i mean that whole library is really sophisticated really sophisticated transaction yeah what did you ninety you’re in the business what did you what could you tell me in the business. What did you… What could you tell me about that I might not get? Since you deal with some aspect of that financial trading. What did you learn about the Libor or about what… How it was this fulcrum position? Well, it was… Because it was one of those transactions that’s done between the banks. And it was really a big transaction in the mortgage-backed securities industry. A lot of different tranches that they set in the bonds they used as a LIBOR rate. And the LIBOR rate was actually a behind-the-scenes transaction that all the banks agreed, which if you read that, how he connected all these different brokers and all these different banks to actually play. The one thing that I found interesting, but I wouldn’t wanna spend a lot of energy investigating, is how the connection of the fall of the market, which really is the dollars what drives the market, but he was playing in the Asian market with a different currency. I didn’t understand that, so that was kind of puzzling because apparently what I learned is the library is used on all different currencies and for my exposure, but I guess it’s possible, but I’ve only dealt with the library against the dollar, but that whole article, that article, they were talking about he was manipulating the Asian market with the Asian currency. So that’s, or maybe he was manipulating the Asian market using the dollar. I don’t know, but it’s really just, I mean, a lot of that Wall Street stuff is just like sophisticated Las Vegas trickery when you go into those type of things like live. You have to be working in there. You have to be doing it. You have to know the daily involvement that you work with and then find patterns. Now they discovered, he discovered this pattern that the top decision makers were letting it ride and the middle guys yeah had the potential to decide what the libra rate would be daily and uh… nobody was watching these middle guys they saw an opening it also shows i thought of a clue when i was reading that because that’s the perils of specialism because a lot of the big, that whole banking thing is full of specialists. I mean there’s very few guys that actually have the full view. It’s only a specialist. He only does this because he has no idea what his work or what he does connects to the whole big picture. And as a janitor I’m able to put a little more lines together on how things work, but it’s because I don’t care really. So it’s easy to do. Did you say you’re able to put more lines together? Or lines? Lines together. I’m putting lines or patterns. I’m actually able to see more patterns than the specialists in the industry because I worked where I used to work in the mortgage-backed securities industry. And here I’m into hedge funds and all those kind of things. So it’s really specialist. That’s what I picked up in that article, that it’s the peril of the specialist. Also, Bob, there’s another thing in there that I learned. It’s apparently that Wall Street took over, um, I remember in 2000 or 2000, 2001, they had this Sarbanes-Oxley rule, some type of, due to Enron. When Enron fell out, they came up with this law called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and that’s where any officer of a bank had to sign some type of waiver that they could personally be prosecuted if anything in the documents that they signed, if there was if anything in the documents they signed, if there was anything like that went across to what was in those documents. And I was an officer at one time and I had to sign it, so when we did documents I had to sign it. And it kind of links you to anything like if you’re doing your name is on a fund, the Sarbanes-Ox without the you could be prosecuted and that’s what i took from tom hayes because he was like he became a head of this area so he was like person responsible that’s why they were able to put him in the guilty even though it’s the international bank but it seems like that wall street kind of like uh… transparently use the same rule that they make these guys officers and heads of these departments so that if anything goes down they can pull the name out of the hat and throw him over the coals. You mean they have people in specialist roles and they’re ready to be a Lee Harry Oswald if the higher-ups require it. In other words, you got a regular job like that, you’re being set up. You potentially could be set up. And that’s how they fished him out. I mean, they really fished him out because, I mean, a lot of that, all those transactions, all they had to, because it took them a year, I think a year or 18 months. I don’t remember the time frame. But because of how sophisticated that library is, you have to do all those connections of all those bank transactions and the time stamps and everything. So they probably, you know, tested some new type of back investigative software to see how all that connected and his name popped up maybe. I mean, I’m just speculating. But you had the feeling through that article of being present at something you had no awareness of. It was an eye opener of some part of the virtual economy. Yes. Yes. I mean they gave a few, there was a couple paragraphs in there where it was some people saying there’s no way that he did this alone. There was a couple, it was like point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint all throughout the article I picked up. But basically he did, I mean one time they made a mention that he made 700 million million in a week or a month or whatever, but that’s a sign. I’m like, okay, so they’re making the insinuation that he earned that. Well, actually, he earned that for the company. He didn’t take home the $700 million. I mean, maybe he got a nice bonus out of his work, but he didn’t take $700 million home. make 700 million of them. No. So it’s just all connected to Carolyn’s work and Magni’s and deficiency. Most people who aren’t on the complete informants, they would be doing a white collar crime like Tom Hayes. Right. They’d be happy enough not to require the excitement of it, or the guilt of it, or the stimulus of it or the guilt of it or the stimulus of it. They’d recognize, well, if I go there, negative pH is going to get me. Yeah. Okay, very good. Also, Bob, I watched it. Yeah, good. Okay, good. You watched what? Carolyn, Carolyn, uh, and her blog this week released these, uh, supplements and safety about PBS and that’s, oh man. You watched that? Really a big, yeah, it’s a joke. I watched it, I listened to it once through and then watched it and it’s really an andro meme yo-yo guys and guys telling lies. It’s based on people, maybe younger people who don’t remember anything before 2010 or something. They have no history. They don’t know. It’s all new to them. A new problem. Yes. Yes. history they don’t know it’s all new to them a new problem now one of the snap and they could start to run the old shit all the old arguments again always around to uh… to refute them as they were fifteen twenty years ago care like one of the last people who super informed i mean it, there’s a lot of quote responsibility in Carol’s hand. She’s the only one who’s comprehensive enough to fucking explain all the stuff and not get trapped in one of the reactive subcultures and but knows and remembers what did happen and knows how ridiculous they are. Yes, yes. That’s what’s amazing about just hearing that. It’s like, you know, I’ve been taking vitamins and supplements for 40 years and to hear this at this point, it’s like we are definitely in the matrix and I am in Zion looking at the other world because I could not believe some of that shit that they were saying. Yeah, they were saying, well we all know the main self-abuse are people like Bert. Bert this white guy who pretends he’s black and he hangs out with Dobbs who is a black guy but pretends he’s white. That’s how fucked up what they were saying, right? They were describing you backwards. Yeah, yeah. Backwards. fucked up what they were saying right? They were describing you backwards. Yeah, backwards. I mean, Bert, Bert, oh Bert he died. He suffered from a vitamin E overdose. We all know that. Yeah, it was 60 minutes in bed. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha He’s been killing people for thousands of years! They still haven’t caught him! I am said to kill everybody you talk to, so I’m getting worried. I killed off the Knights Templars! I thought you were going to kill us! Then another guy said, well I was killed by Bob, he’s such a lousy killer, I survived it! I’m trying to say the most absurd things. That’s how absurd they were right Bert? Like hearing people say that kind of stuff. Totally absurd. Totally absurd. Totally. Yeah I have to stay sane in the midst of this and keep Carol in fucking balance because you know Carol can get, it’s just get to pocket ridiculous for girls what do you this is that a person around anywhere no not at all it’s uh… that was my by job is just to be safe amidst the chaos of you specialists. You specialists crash and burn all over the place. My job is just to maintain diplomatic immunity. Ha ha ha! All right. Now that’s racist, Paul. That’s right. Now that’s a nice response. That’s right. Now, what, did I fade out? I was reading Zappa, and we know, okay, the John K, yeah, yeah, he’s saying I feel a lot better to use that energy to get more people on your side rather than some of the activities are now directed at overthrowing certain things that you’re disingenuous. So then the journalist says, what about kids? Do they seem any different from the people you grew up with? I don’t remember saying that, so here’s where we are. Country Joe McDonald. Well, there seem to be more and more of them. They always were there, but not so noticeably. They’re expanding their perceptions and consciousness to the point where the concepts of reality and the structures that go with it are constantly being torn down and enlarged. John Case says, the kids that are 12 to 16 that are living in the Midwest and the South are in that adolescent stage of development where they would like to survive and be individualists. A lot of them shucked, I think I read this, but anyways, a lot of them shuck, I think I read this, but anyways, a lot of them shuck school, parents, church, and whatever other influences they’ve had. However, a lot of them don’t. It’s extremely important to recruit them right now so they don’t wind up sitting on the fence and are on our side. Then I was going to quote the Beatles, The Revolution. I didn’t quote that, did I? I think that’s right where I got. You say you want a revolution. Well, you know, we all want to change the world. You tell me that it’s evolution. Well, you know, we all want to change the world. But when you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out? Then it says, Dash In. Don’t you know you can count me out? Don’t you know you’re going to be alright? You who you’re gonna be? You’re gonna be alright! You grew up with that. That’s one of your anthems. Revolution 1. No, my parents liked the Beatles. The Beatles. They liked the Beatles? Yeah. She grew up with the characters Beatles. Holy shit. Say you wanna revolution. She grew up with it. with a pounding in her brain. No wonder Rocky was yelling at seven years old, why? How? What? When? My parents have such a bad musical thing. Why? My parents are lousy music consumers. Why? Please release me from this. I always like this. Oh yeah. Alright. Yeah, that was a good one. Alright. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha All right, okay. So I don’t know who’s putting these Beals quotes in here. It’s just they’re suddenly there, but I don’t think they’re put in and volunteered by the interviewees, maybe by the journalists. So the journalist says, so what are you going to do? I remember saying that. I read all that, didn’t I? I’m sorry, it’s only a little bit left, so I guess I’ll be repeating. So what are you going to do? John Kay, I’m as confused as the next guy as to where it’s going to go and what we’re going to do and what it’s going to solve once we do get there. But one thing that I’m definitely for is change. I’d rather take the risk of finding out that it may not work out than to just sit back and accept what is here and now because I’m definitely not pleased with it. I’m radical to a degree, but I do believe that the time for nonviolence may be over. But on the other hand, I think it’s somewhat silly to take a few isolated people and push them into a violent action that is supposed to produce change. If you don’t really have the support of a large number of people, I don’t think you can accomplish very much. And Zappa says, I like the idea of allowing things to happen. Allowing things to happen in quotes. What better statement, what better statement against fascism? I believe that all different styles of life can exist peacefully side by side if people allow other people to be what they are. Now, McLoone would come in and say social identity is based on violence. So for people to be what they are, they have to make an identity and they have to be violent to make an identity in some way. So you couldn’t be what Zappa’s talking about. You can’t have people existing side by side peacefully because they require identity making, which is violent. So the only solution is to realize there are no humans, no identity is possible, and start from there. A little help from iON, maybe. So country Joe McDonald says, well, what it really comes down to is making myself happy. As for social behavior, if you’re hurting anyone else, it’s probably wrong. And that’s why the social problems can be solved in the context of the mentality of the world today. The leaders systematically exclude gigantic portions of the human population as being radically different from them, which is entirely a false concept. We have a tendency to involve ourselves with our own kind or what we think is our own kind. Like hippies mixing only with hippies, blacks only with blacks, students only with students. And this creates incredible myths and misunderstandings. So he’s saying everybody is the same. The leaders systematically exclude gigantic portions of the human population as being very radically different from them. Then Phil Oakes is going to kill himself. He’s the most depressed. He goes, I really don’t know. I wrote a new song, which I sang at the rally after the Carnegie concert called, quote, All Quiet on the Western Front. And one line runs, quote, I think I’ll join the National Liberation Front. And that’s sort of my feeling now i suspected after you p it might be held it might be healthy for some form of new political group to come onto the scene now he was on the in the village with the formation of the abuse i guess he got very disillusioned with them that’s paul krasner dave dellinger the guy who ended up working for the little Maharishi kid, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin. So he knew all these guys, but he’s pissed off at them. He says, we need a group which is more sober rather than more crazy. In other words, a real national liberation front whose purpose is to liberate America. Totally broad-based, which could take into its ranks the Kendi people and the McCarthy people and the dissatisfied street people. But they’d have to really be together to get it together. And not only in America, I think a whole series of National Liberation Fronts throughout the Western countries would be a healthy development, a very heavy militant coalition of interest able to include all sorts of people. All right, so then McDonald ends. I recommend compassionate action. To be compassionate today is the most revolutionary thing you can do. To act in a compassionate manner is the most revolutionary thing you can do. Repeated. It eliminates almost all acts of violence and forces upon you a responsibility for the rest of the world. So, do any, anything we can learn from this farmer? They’re covering, they’re yo-yo, yo-yo journalism, up and down, left and right. Too much violence, yo-yo journalism up and down, left and right. Too much violence, not enough violence. Too many stupid people, not enough stupid people. We need to get the young kids. No, the young kids are idiots. Ah well. Zappa, I’m sure he sounded the same in retrospect. I like the idea of allowing things to happen. What better statement against fascism? I believe that all different styles of life can exist peacefully side by side if people allow other people to be what they are. Well, that’s a little non-cynical. Must be a misprint. He probably didn’t even say that. It’s the only way I can handle it. How could Frank be so stupid and naive? He was always saying… He was a constitutional reformist. He was a what? What did you say, Roxy? Constitu… That he was always complaining that he was misquoted and they would say he said things that he never said. Yeah. I have an interview here. What are we going to do when I finish shooting this episode? What’s next? I guess I’ll play those valuable clips of me and iON the last couple of days, or yesterday. Is there anything else we have to do? It’s too much to do McLuhan, I think. What do you think? Do we go do the next McLuhan? No. You’d rather hear what I have to say. Okay, well hopefully. I’ve got to play McLuhan and I mean Bob, iON, and then the final second penultimate part of the rewrite. But there is this one pager, it says, zigzag unzips. Frank Zappa interviewed by Dick Lawson at the Royal Albert Hall. So he’s in England. So I, this is… I don’t know. Let’s start half of it or something. So this is I guess 1969, because he’s talking about Beefheart. Over the last year or so, you have been thrust by the press into a position where you are an attitude spokesman, that’s in quotes, for what is happening in the States, which is presumably why you were asked to lecture at the London School of Economics the other day. We know that was in August of 69. What exactly happened? Now what’s interesting is this is what Zappa was in 68, 69, like he wrote that article in Life Magazine, he was asked to be a figurehead, a rational communicator. So the British are noticing this. Zappa says, I wound up speaking to a large number of unfortunately misdirected young people. Who were you expecting? Something political and sociological to come up? I gave them something political and sociological. The only problem was they didn’t agree with what they thought the tactics for a youth revolution should be. And I can’t buy their tactics because I think they’re juvenile. So this is the thing we were laughing. I laughed my head off, laughed into absurdity last week. This is him dealing with the same German, the impossible Germans. Then the journalist says, they were sort of trying to bring the Berkeley thing over here. Zappa’s says, yes, much in the same way as they imported flower power. Journalist, in September 67, when you first came over, you were shouting things like, flower power sucks, when half the audience had flowers behind their ears and were cringing in their seats. Zappa says, well I don’t think I really made them cringe because when a person’s really into that he believes it for as long as it’s fashionable and the problem with young people today is that they’re not much more developed than their parents, you know. Their attitudes are slightly different in some regards, but the level of their individuality and their sociological development is only slightly better. And they are not, as they imagine themselves to be, the spearhead of some fantastic revolution that’s going to turn the planet into some kind of Garden of Eden after they’re done, because they’re not. The main problem of what they advocate in terms of aggressive revolution and waving signs around in the street and boycotts and violence and all the rest of this stuff is, A, it’s a fad this season, and and B, they don’t offer any alternatives or anything better to replace the current situation with when they get done with their revolution. They don’t offer any alternatives or anything better to replace the current situation with when they get done with their revolution. They’re into revolution on a carnival level, and they aren’t thinking in terms of the best things for the most amount of people. You know, they aren’t taking into consideration the millions of people who probably don’t want to be hip and groovy. They just want to be comfortable and sit around in their homes and, you know, I don’t believe that it’s my place or anybody else’s place to tell them that they’re not entitled to that. It seems to me, the journalist says, it seems to me that you are not very choked off. No. It seems to me that you got very choked off playing and talking about this kind of thing because you’ve come through Freecoat and Absolutely Free into Uncle Meat, three albums, where as you say it’s basically an instrumental thing. I mean, you’re much more concerned with the music itself, the jazz. It is jazz, isn’t it?" Zappas says, no, it’s not. Well, what is it then? It’s contemporary American music. American because that’s the environment that created it. Los Angeles and New York. Now I never heard, saw that state before. That’s pretty neat. Is it jazz? No. What is it? It’s contemporary American music. American, American because that’s the environment, Roxy’s word, that created it. Los Angeles and New York. Then the journalist says, well in fact, it was Rubin and the Jets, who would make one think that any spare time you have, which can’t be much, you sit around listening to Adele Vikings and Gladiolus records and 50s stuff like that. Zappa’s says, well, as a matter of fact, I do listen to those sort of records because I have a large collection of them. But I listen more to Stravinsky and Varese than that, you know, almost to the exclusion of all other forms of pop music. The journalist, you don’t listen to any of your contemporaries, groups and so on? Zappa, outside the groups that I’m producing during the time that I’m working on the project, no I don’t. You’ve recently befriended Captain Beefheart. Zappa says, I’ve known him 12 years. Ah, well you appreciate he’s a very big cult figure over here. Zappa’s says, I think they’re in for a very big surprise as to what Captain Beefheart is into and where he’s at. Because the two albums that you heard over here were, I think, extremely bad produced. And Beefheart himself has complained about what they did to him in the studio when he made those two albums. Because the first album, it was studio players backing him up to a certain extent and the second album mixed in a way that was against, that was against his wishes. There were certain things that he wanted to have in there and the producer took it into the studio and put that phasing effect all over some of the stuff and turned it into a piece of shit. And so, and there were some interesting things on that album. I think the song Beetlebones, Smoking Stones is really a great song. We sing it on the bus. But the new album that he’s just made is a two record set and the roots of that music are a Delta Blues and also an Avant-Garde Jazz like Cecil Taylor, Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane and a lot of other things. You can really hear that influence and it’s perfectly blended into a new musical language. It’s all his and it bears no resemblance to anything anybody else is doing and his words are also, you know, like quote, miles ahead of the field, unquote. Blended into a new musical language. So this is when he’s a manager for Cat Beef in the fall of 69. You don’t find those influences influencing your work? Zappa goes, those jazz figures? To a small degree. Journalist, I would have thought that Ian Underwood’s alto work, Zappa cuts him off and says, well, we’ve got to remember that when Uncle Meat was recorded, Ian had just joined the group at that time and he had been working with jazz groups in New York and it’s pretty much in an Albert Eiler type vein. And that type of music still influences some of his playing but it’s foolish to, every time you hear someone improvise, to assume that it’s jazz. One of the main problems we’ve had all along is making people realize that you can improvise in any given set of themes or chords or basic rules. I mean, is John Cage’s music jazz? Much of it is improvised. The journalist says, okay, if that is what you were doing when… That’s interesting because he’s saying many people say jazz is improvisation music and he’s making it all jazz. He’s saying no, other musics have improvisation. Yeah, and rock can have a lot of improvisation and that doesn’t make it deaf. Right. Yeah, that’s a good point. Okay, so the guy says, Okay, if that is what you were doing when Uncle Meat was recorded, which was in 68. Zappa’s says, Uncle Meat and Reuben the Jets were recorded simultaneously between October 67 and February 68. Well, what sort of stuff are you into now? He says, electric chamber music. And that’s what you’re going to play tonight? Yes, quite a bit of it. That’s what we’ve been doing on the tour, and some of it’s quite new. In fact, five of the pieces were written on the plane coming over, and we’ve been rehearsing them in a hotel with just the bassoon and the flugelhorn and the clarinet. Journalists, so in fact, you’re introducing new instruments as well. Zappa says yes. What was your reaction to the festival audience last year? Zappa, I was surprised they didn’t catch on to what we were doing quicker. They didn’t catch on at all, did they? No, they didn’t. They missed the whole point of it. And another thing that’s not generally known is that that show cost us $5,000 just to get those musicians to record it, film it, get the costumes, make arrangements with the hall itself to put on that kind of a show. It cost us money to do that. But I thought it was worth it. We recorded a very good album out of it, which will be our next record out around July. Then this, the journalist says, I read in Downbeat that you did a 45-minute set with Roland Kirk at a Boston Jazz Festival. Were you billed together or did you just play together because Roland Kirk was there? The other says, we were on the same show and I met him after he had done his part and I said, quote, would you be interested in playing with us, unquote. And he said he didn’t know. And I said, well, you’ve never heard the group before. You don’t know what we do. If you like it, come on out on stage and start playing and we’ll back you up. So, end of quote, end of that part of Zappa’s story. Then he says, so we played for about five or ten minutes and he came wheeling out there with horns hanging all over him and blew his brains out. It was completely free, nothing planned. No, the journalist says, it was completely free, nothing planned? Zappa says, no, he just came bopping out there and we did it. Have you got any plans to record together? Well, he asked us to, you know, but we haven’t gone ahead with any special schemes yet. Then the journalist says, recently Kirk came over and played with Jack Bruce, Steve Stills, Buddy Miles and so on and what many saw as an attempt to revitalize the group scene here. Did your getting together have any effect over there? I didn’t, as Eppa says, I didn’t see that our meeting had anything to do with revitalizing any groups in the United States, which was very sterile to begin with. But people form groups basically in order to get ahead. There’s some evidence to the contrary. There seems to be a bit of creative work going into it, but there aren’t many really creative groups in the United States. Beef Art is certainly an exception and maybe one or two others." So then the interviewer says, "’What do you think of Billy Mundy’s group, Rhinoceros?’ Billy Mundy used to play drums for the mothers." Zappa’s says, "’I saw them live in Canada and was very impressed with this one thing they did called chicken. Chicken. But the rest of what they were doing was pretty smooth teeny-bop type material. These were tunes they were getting ready for their next album. And this piece, Chickens, sounded extremely like the Mothers of Invention, which is why I like it. What do you think of the group scene over here? Have you seen any? That was only what I saw down at the Speakeasy a couple of times, and I wasn’t exceedingly enthralled by what I saw. Journalists, what about the groups that we’re currently sending over like Jethro Tull and the Nice? He says, I like Jethro Tull and the Organists in the Nice very much. I think he plays very well. I also like the Rolling Stones. What about specific states groups? I don’t pay that much attention. There’s probably lots going on but I get pretty involved in my small corner of it. Who else are you recording apart from Beef Harp? We have Wildman Fisher, a group called Alice Cooper, Judy Henske, and Jerry Esther. We just bought 20 hours of Lenny Bruce tapes. We have Lord Buckley. The police did him under in New York a few years ago, and he was a sort of strange type of comedian. Definitely underground comedian of his time, which was the 50s. We also have a documentary album on the Kennedy assassination, the last one, which is very interesting. Got all the actual tapes of the assassination, interviews with Sirhan in his jail cell, interviews with the witnesses telling what they testified in court and what the police told them to say. Interviews with the witnesses telling what they testified in court and what the police told them to say. How did you manage to get hold of all that? Frank says, a guy named Doug Moody put the album together and offered it to us and we packaged it and put it out. You were quoted as having Tim Buckley. Is it in fact Lord Buckley? No, we are going to have Tim Buckley as soon as his contract is up with Electra. And that will probably be September. The journalist says, well, thank you very much. Give our love to Captain Beefheart. All right. There we did that. Nobody’s on mute, you can speak. Yeah, that was very interesting. Yes. To hear what he thought about other bands and what he really liked. Yeah, I’ve never read this before. It’s a good particular interview. Talking about, I’d never heard the idea about the improvisation before from him. I didn’t know that’s how he distinguished jazz. Yes, and he’s not saying I’m a rock musician. He’s saying I’m making contemporary American music. Right. He says… What did he say that? He said, how would you define that? Because he says he’s making jazz and he says no. Oh yeah, it’s contemporary American music. He says it’s not jazz. Well what is it then? It’s contemporary American music. American because that’s the environment that created it. Los Angeles and New York. That would be the car culture of LA. I don’t know what it would be in New York. So yeah, he’s saying he’s making contemporary American music. He’s not even putting himself in any group, which is pretty unique. Pretty good. And it’s true. I think his music goes beyond the boundaries of a rock band. He had more like an orchestra than a rock band. Okay, let’s see where this gets us. This is an interview with Zappa in a film magazine called Take One. I think it’s a Canadian magazine. And it says, Uncle Me, the latest LP, so this is in 69. We have a date on the cover. Volume 2, number 2, so there’s your 22. On the cover it has Alfred Hitchcock staring at Zappa. Dated the postmark July 28, 1969. Okay. Uncle Me, the latest LP by the Mothers of Invention is described on the album cover as quote, most of the music from the Mothers movie is the same name which we haven’t got enough money to finish yet, unquote. In a booklet that comes with the two record albums, Frank Zappa, founder of the Mothers writes quote, this film is stashed away in my basement while we scheme on how to raise $300,000 to finish it and make it spiffy so it can be shown in your local teenage neighborhood theater. This is an album of music from a movie you will probably never get to see. And the journalist says, though the film is still uncompleted, some of the outtakes have been shown at the Film World East during a concert by the Mothers. Recent plans calling for a 14-hour unedited version of the film to be screened in New York with the audience paying according to how much film they’d seen. Between sets at Toronto’s Rock Pile Club, Zappa was interviewed about his career as a filmmaker by Take One Associate Editor Joe Medjak. Joe Medjak also interviews McLuhan around this time, produces a very interesting interview, which I read last week. I read about him making a film, remember? So what’s the date of that? I mean, is Zappa and McLuhan coming together pretty much at the same time. I have to find that, take the day sometime. I mean that interview. So, the interviewer Joe Medjuck says, presuming that the people who are going to read this won’t know anything about Uncle Meat, what would you like to tell them about the film? Frank says, Uncle Meat is a surrealistic documentary about the whys and wherefores of our rocking teen combo. How long is it? It’s probably about two hours. How much of it is completed? We’ve got about half done, I guess. Are you shooting in 16mm? Well the stuff that I’ve already got done is in 16mm, but I need about $300,000 to finish it off. I have to shoot some stuff in 35. Any chances of getting a distributor that you’ve heard of? Well, I think that rather than show people little pieces of the way it is now and let them get the wrong idea of what it is, I think I’m going to have to find another way instead of hyping a distributor beforehand. Are you shooting it yourself? I shot some of it myself. Another guy named Ed Seaman shot quite a bit of it and another guy named Don Preston shot some of it and other parts were like confiscated confiscated were like a confiscated German news film calling it uh German. Did you use think sound? Some of it is wild and some of it didn’t think. No. Some of it’s wild and some of it’s think. How did you learn how to use a camera? I’ve been using a camera for 12 years. Could you say a bit about the plot of this movie? It deals with the complex that face an average middle class sort of person who works for the government and does a bunch of things for the government that he’s not proud of and can’t tell his family what he’s doing. Mm-hmm. So… Like his father. How’s he like his father? Yeah, his father… Description. …couldn’t be proud of what he was doing and… No, I don’t know what you mean. What do you… Yeah, his father… Frank’s father was involved in some experiments. Right. I mean, he could not be proud of what he was doing, like he’s saying there. So your point was… That, um… That he’s describing his father. He’s thinking about his father, yeah, that he knows. Well, there’s nothing in what I read that indicates that it’s his father. No, but his father was in that situation, that he could not be proud of what he was doing. Right. okay. Well, where do I say that? I didn’t read that, but we’ve talked about it before, right? This interview so far… What did you say it? I said it right? You just read it something from the… Something. With that description, well… Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, at the end. I don’t remember reading this. Did you use sync sound? Some of it’s wild and some of it’s sync. How did you learn how to use a camera? I’ve been using a camera for years. He didn’t answer there. He didn’t answer.. He didn’t answer. Could you say a bit about the plot? It deals with the conflict that statesman Average Mills, that sort of person who works for the government and does a bunch of things for the government that he’s not proud of and can’t tell his family what he’s doing. See? Because… That’s right, yeah, I see that. Because he’s doing a top secret project for the government. You see, if it gets quite complicated, in the album Uncle Me, part of the plot is printed in a book that comes with the record set. And it would be better if you just take it out of that. Now, I’ve been thinking of reading this booklet to you guys many times. I don’t think I read it, did I? This story? No. Well, they make a small copy of it. I don’t know if I could read it, but I could try. But let’s finish the interview. So what’s he saying here? The government’s not proud of it. There’s a bunch of things for the government. Okay, definitely that’s his father, right? Doing a top secret project for the government. Okay, definitely that’s his father, right? Doing a top secret project for the government. D gets quite complicated. In the album, Uncle Me, part of the plot is printed in a book that comes with the record and it would be better if you just take it out of that. Then the interviewer says, how would you compare it to other people’s films? Would you consider it revolutionary or… Zappa says, I won’t say it’s revolutionary, but it ain’t like the Beatles movie. You mean Lester’s Magical Mystery Tour? Zappa says, ain’t like any of them. So he’s irritated a bit for pretending to be. And he says, it ain’t like the Beatles movie. And then later he says, it ain’t like any of them. Are there any directors whom you’d consider influences? I don’t know anything about other directors. Did my phone buzz? Getting low. But we’re OK, I think, to finish this. Maybe not. I can’t. I got to read a little bit. All right. I’m going to put a segment of refreshment on for a minute while I get the other phone. Okay? You guys can’t handle that? Yes. We’ll survive. Yes. Okay. Yes. What is it? You want to be in the Kansas. We didn’t do that, did we? We didn’t do the Kansas request. No. And because we played. We did. Yeah, we played other movies, right? We got distracted there so go in. Who is Fukuneli? What about that? Yes, that’s who we played first. What are you talking about? What? Who? Yeah. Fukuneli? Yeah. Yeah. I have information overload. I don’t know what’s coming or going. But I was going to play this song and I lost it. Like, what is it, the one you wanted? Kansas City in A minor. Okay. Well, here’s Charles Ives. He said that Charles Ives, 19th century, early 20th century composer. What did he say about Charles Ives? Do you guys remember? He said he likes his That has to be one of the greatest fucking performance of music in human history. Holy shit. So good. Wow. Holy shit, bitch. It’s like you can forget. There’s so many great things in Zappaland. You can forget great things. You don’t hear them once every five years. You stumble into the other room. Jesus Christ, you guys were playing. Very good choice there Bert glad you remembered it. Of course there’s other great things but that was phenomenal. Am I mistaken? Am I exaggerating? No. Am I not listening to enough Beethoven? No. What’s a young mind like yourself, Alyssa, think of that. So good. It’s so, like, it’s amazing. I mean, like, technically it’s amazing, but it’s how all the pieces are coming together that’s so wonderful it’s so muscular like Zappa it’s a total environment it’s very…what? what’s it? 918 total environment right it’s a total environment and to me Zappa is playing so aesthetically and violently with his guitar like he must be like a Superman very strong in the arms it sounds like yeah or strong fingers or something this sounds huge and he’s got great horns these fantastic horns going along it’s like I don’t know if anybody knows where they’re going. It’s just all wailing. It sounds a bit like it’s chaotic. Yeah, but that comes from all those hours and hours that they rehearse and they go into a concert and they get to a certain chord or whatever and then whoever’s turn it is to improvise, they just go to a whole other level and the band follows them. It feels like that. It’s really, it’s amazing. Okay, Bert, I want you to sit down, Bert. I’m going to have you sit down because now, Roxy, are you still here in my phone? Is Roxy still here? Did she get dropped off? She was. Okay, maybe this is her. She often waves. Is that you, Roxy, with the waving hand? Yes. What did you think of that music? Was it as good for you as it was for us? Yes. Very nice. Jassy. Now here, you just heard Bert say it. It’s years of rehearsal. If I’m not wrong, this is what’s called the petite wazoo, not the Grand Wazoo. When I was in England in September of 72, we saw the Grand Wazoo, big orchestra. He probably took a small number of those guys and did five concerts around New England. And it’s called the little-known Petite Wazoo Tour. Now, maybe they rehearsed for the Grand Wazoo Tour, but these guys were session people. They weren’t Mother’s Invention. I don’t know how long they’d been with them, but they basically had not been fucking rehearsing like you’re talking about. That you, we know about the traditional band. Wow. Yeah. They are accomplished session musicians that can adapt, but I don’t know how much rehearsing went into this. That was so, that’s like, I think it should be a national anthem or something. Wow. Yeah, he’s just recovered from his accident, from being kicked off stage. He’s still in a wheelchair when this is happening. Then he leg brace got in the way. So he’s playing the guitar in a wheelchair then? I can’t remember. There are pictures of him around the band in a wheelchair, but I can’t remember him if he was in a wheelchair in London. And this would have been a few weeks later, late September, early October. I remember him limping around or something like that, you know. But to say, but there are pictures of him in the wheelchair around this time. He’s just getting out if he has. He’s just got off the chair. But he’s coming out almost being killed. And what’s funny, I was looking at some of the… there’s been all this commentary going on in the chat line, you know, volumes of stuff, people asking me questions about things were saying three hours ago that I didn’t even know about. The great minds are being ignored if they’re just typing. They have to come out here if they want Bob’s value response. There’s just too much going on. People are arguing over fucking things. There’s more than one show happening here in terms of audience participation. But boy, that was quite exciting. It would be incredible to be Zappa and to play like that. What do you think of that, Alyssa? Wouldn’t you like to be able to get up there and play a guitar like that with those musicians? Yes. What happened to Alyssa? Did she drop off? Yes. What happened to Elissa? Did she drop off? Yeah, I think she dropped off. She dropped off. Yeah, well, I think we better go to some recording. But that was a good suggestion, Bert. I’ve got it written down as Being to Kansas, but that’s not the title. It is. It is. That is the title. I just, when I was, I have a list of songs and I just remember Kansas City and A Minor. It must be Beamed to Kansas City and A Minor. It is. I checked YouTube. It is Beamed to Kansas City and A Minor. So what were you going to say, Roxy? I just had some words. I checked YouTube, it has been to Kansas City in A minor. So what were you gonna say, Roxy? I just had some words. Yeah, but when I hear some of the pieces by Zappa, it’s hard for me to believe that people say they don’t like Zappa, because from the music point of view, it’s amazing in every aspect, every aspect of the composition. Yes, every aspect. I agree. It’s simple little man envy. It’s fucking envy and not allowing themselves to realize what can be done. They’re blocking furiously and allowing themselves to know that such thing could exist. It’s much like people’s reaction to me. How could they not like me? How could they not like I? Everything I offer cannot be disliked. You can’t dislike McLuhan, you can’t dislike Coker or Finnegans Wake. It may be challenging. Or Joyce, yeah. It may be challenging. Or a joist. Or a joist, yeah. It may be challenging and upset your whole life and make you feel depressed and useless, but it’s still not something to be disliked. You’re confusing your personal silly response to a work of beauty. You know? Just because it makes you feel tiny and inadequate and stupid, you should hate yourself, not the artist. But I like that, Roxy. That’s right. I marvel that every day, twice a day. Why are people not praising this? It should be a national anthem. It’d be a company, I don’t know, what would 10 year olds, what would a 10 year old kid today if they could see that band doing that? What would they think? Would they be too whacked out from their tactile texting interplay to even hear anything? Would they notice it? You know? Too busy, like Sarah’s kid, Noah, too busy running their own talk show to notice what Frank was doing. I guess everybody’s into their little production. Productions. Producer mania. Trying to keep up with the Android Meme. Taking selfies. Selfies? Yes. Taking selfies. Oh, taking selfies. Oh, my God. Jesus. Yeah, it’s B for Kansas City in A minor. So he’s been to Kansas City. It’s a funny name. taking selfies. Oh my god. Jesus. Yeah, it’s B for Kansas City in A minor. So he’s been to Kansas City. It’s a funny title. It’s a virtual Kansas City. It’s a place in A minor. So let’s finish this interview. I made an incredible discovery in this fucking movie interview. I can’t believe it. But I have not read this in forty years now look at that, it’s fucking half a century man i mean this is like i don’t know it was in the sixties, somebody showed me footage from the twenties, well what are we looking at something from the twenties for, that’s a fucking long time ago this is how far away these interviews are i’ve turned into a fucking ancient museum. No, it’s because it turns out that this is connected to the Shambor castle. That article. Yes. All right. So we’re at this point where he said, it deals with the conflicts of faith. An average middle class sort of person who works for the government does a bunch of things for the government that he’s not proud of and can’t tell his family what he’s doing. Holy shit, I totally forgot that’s his father. See? Because he’s doing a top secret project for the government. See? He goes, see a top secret project for the government. See? It gets, he goes, see? It gets quite complicated.’t say it’s revolutionary, but it ain’t like the Beatles movie. And the journalist says, do you mean Lester’s Hard Day’s Night or Magical Mystery Tour? Zappa says, ain’t like any of them. Are there any directors whom you’d consider influences? Zappa says, I don’t go of them. Are there any directors whom you’d consider influences? Zappa says, I don’t go to the movies, so I don’t know anything about other directors. It’s like, he knows a lot about music, but it’s another case of, well, I built this fucking dome, but I don’t know how, I don’t know nothing about architecture. It’s an incredible movie. He always said, I don’t read anything. That’s right. I don’t listen to anything. He’s the original producer maniac. He’s the only successful producer maniac. Who actually knows nothing but then creates unbelievable stuff. I don’t go to the movies, I don’t do anything, I know nothing. He’s so confident about his own making, he’s just making what he wants to make. But he has a message, he’s trying to show synaesthesia or something. You know, he is, he knows what his message is. He doesn’t give a fuck what anybody else’s message is. I like the way Rocky says, he doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t do anything. He doesn’t do anything. He never had a coffee. never had a hot dog. He’s an alien. Never slept. I don’t sleep. I don’t know anything about sleep. So, the guy says, eat ice cream and go to the beach. Yeah, I live on coffee and cigarettes. So the guy says, when Zappa says he knows nothing about other, he doesn’t even know there’s such thing as directors. I know nothing about other directors. He says, the journalist says, I heard a rumor that you almost did the music for Barbarella. And he says, well, we were playing in London about two years. 67 and this guy came out to me and said that Roger Vadim had taken parts of the Freak Out album and was using him in a test score that they use before they get to the final dubbing on the film and he had used part of that in there and this guy now look at this Giorgio Gomelsky the man of the week last week oh oh George he’ll fucking go Mel ski now I remember now Nick Amelski told me about the man of the week last week george hill fucking gomel ski now i remember now they cannot be told me about this he knew roger vette georgia knew everybody and he went to france with that and they waited a week in france for vettin that decided neither didn’t get in touch with frank or he just said no but now a i remember him telling me this but here it is written up in this thing 40 years ago. And, you know, Frank knows him just a little bit. He goes, this guy, and it’s spelled all wrong in the name George Gomelsky. And so he had used part of that, Roger Vadim there, and this guy George Gomelsky said that he had spoken to Vadim about considering me to do the score. What he wanted to do was have three people score simultaneously. He wanted me, Stockhausen, and Paul McCartney to simultaneously score Barbarella. So he bought my manager and myself a ticket to Rome. Yeah, this is what I think Georgiou was telling me. So he bought my manager and myself a ticket to Rome, and we went there for a day and went to see the rushes on Barbarella and talked with Vadim about it. I was so depressed at what I saw. He saw someone else’s creativity. It just made him depressed. I wasn’t too thrilled about him doing the music for the thing. Fortunately, they didn’t ask me to. He’s a polite guy. He would have been embarrassed. He’s glad they turned him down. It totally pissed him off or depressed him. It’s crap. And Barbara Ellis considered it a great movie, you know, classic with Jane Fonda. Isn’t that funny? I was so depressed at what I saw, I wasn’t too thrilled about doing the movie. How do you get depressed to a guy’s bad movie? Maybe he got depressed because he thought well it would be nice to do it but this ain’t something I can do anything to. Yeah maybe that would be. He doesn’t sound like he takes off his glasses. The thing with them, with the sexy girl and it’s like all the stereotypes that maybe he wouldn’t like to be part of that. Right, he said that Playboy needed, when he broke up The Mothers, I read it last week, he was gonna put out 10 albums or something, or a TV show, and he said the Playboy needed it. If anybody needed it, the Playboy audience did. So that’d be like Barbarella. But yeah, he could have been just shocked at the cliches. Yes, it was too fashion, too trendy, too sexy. Which almost shows you, since Zappa was not in it, he knew about trends, made fun of them, but in a way he didn’t know about them because he was so in his own world, that when he was a barometer, if you showed him what was flashy or trendy and Zappa got depressed, then you’d know that was how fucked up society was. He didn’t realize how bad they were. That was like the mass programming, the mass consumption. Yeah. Do you think he was actually against? Yeah. Yeah. But I’m thinking he’s depressed because he was looking forward to doing a project with big budget and he was pissed off he wasn’t going to be able to get into it. Or he was depressed, like you’re saying, he just thought it was ridiculous. But that would affect him. He said, shit, I came all the way here for nothing. I think for an artist it’s depressing to see that something that are not that good as art get much more money to be done. There’s much more support for all those things and things that, he was producing all his movies himself, the recording of his concerts, and it’s amazing the amounts of money he saves his spending in making a film of a concert or the next record or all these costumes and all these things that he had to pay himself. Yeah, he would take his money and not buy a yacht or anything. He’d just plow it back into the next project. And two of the motels, the director, Tony Palmer, left, got pissed off. He only had a limited budget. And then he had to make up a movie. He had so little, with half a million or something, he had to make up a movie. He had so little, with half a million or something, he had to make up a movie. He had to patch together based on what he had. And it was nowhere near what he could have done if he was given more money. But they wouldn’t give him any. And he did this all the time. I think that was the point. He got depressed. This project gets so much money just because they’re showing some tits and other things that are real art. It’s like he had to produce himself. I always felt back then Shit, I haven’t seen that in six months or a year shit. I fucking missed out and everything I thought I was like missing out in life if I wasn’t getting my regular dose of a Zappa performance, you know It was so awesome. Yeah So just to finish up the interview Well, you’re right. I think you’re right. He’s talking about the amount of money going into crap. What? What did you say? I’m going to get depressed. I never saw Fafa. That’s right. You guys should be depressed. You didn’t see this fucking unidentified flying off. It was absolutely incredible. The live performances. It really, me and Jerry Fialca agreed. It was like seeing a big UFO landing. You know, like in Third Encounters, whatever that movie is where they show the big earphone but you’re stunned. This is what you would gradually get stunned at Zappa’s concert two hours more it would unfold. It was so huge, so big, so perfect. The bacchanal, the ritual, this high that people will get bored with the rituals, with the sacred and we somehow meet this type of ecstasy. Yeah, you know, when I’m thinking of it, I wouldn’t sit there and marvel at Zappa’s brain. I’d just marvel at what I was hearing. You wouldn’t even think about how it was made. Like pure percept. You didn’t project into it. It’s sort of like a ritual. You wouldn’t project into, well, how does that do this? How do you do that? It was too overwhelming. You’re just being swept along by a huge experience. Here’s what Sue Bone said. She went to one of these concerts with us in 88 with the big band. She was shocked at the different ages of men leaping about. She’d never seen 70-year-old men leaping about or 50-year-old men or 10-year-old men, maybe 10-year-olds. But she was struck at the variety of ages that were just fling themselves going nuts at the concert. That’s her sensory memory of it. I don’t know if she heard any of it, because in a way it’s a quiet thing. Like Seppa was saying before, it’s not a trend, like the hippies with the flower and the revolution guys that were just protesting, because it was trendy. They wanted to be hip, they wanted to be in. But he was beyond that, not the trend. It’s like he said, nobody’s going to stop him. It was almost like he knew he was doing such incredible art that no one would notice it. They wouldn’t even notice it. I attempted to play that again. That was pretty incredible, but we’ll hold off. If you guys all leave me and I’m by myself, I’m playing it again. No, you can play it. No, we must move forward. We demand an encore and forward. Yes, encore. So, they go, when do you expect to finish Uncle Me, which he never did. Well, he changed it, we didn’t get to see the story he’s talking about. Well, a lot of that will be predicated by how fast I get the money to do the special work. Is the film in color? Yeah. Are you editing yourself? Yeah. If you don’t go to movies and you don’t see other people’s movies, why did you decide to make one? He goes, I like movies. Where do you see them? I watch the movies I make and I like them. I make little home movies. I’ve been doing it since about 1958. I started out using 8mm. In fact, some of the things in 8mm are going to be blown up and incorporated into the film. Is the film going to be blown up into 35mm eventually? That’s right. Isn’t it going to make the 8mm parts look strange? No, they’ll look real nice. They’ll look exactly like they’re supposed to. When talking to you about music, I find it difficult to talk about classical and pop because you seem to break down the barriers between them. Zappa says, I don’t think there should be any barriers. I think that art should belong to the people and not just a few people who think they’re really specialists or something. But there it is. He takes up the Burt point, anti-specialist. I don’t think there should be any barriers. I think that art should belong to the people and not just a few people who think they’re really specialists or something. That’s pretty good. That’s why he’d include anything in his art. Some guy gave him a formula how to make wine, port, and lemon juice. That goes in the mix, man. That’s important. Wow, that’s pretty neat. Is Alyssa? No, it’s pretty skimpy now. We don’t have many people here. I should ask Bill if he’s awake how many are online. Go ahead. Go ahead. It’s like you won’t let other people ideas of you have to be specialized. You have no right to say these because you don’t know or you cannot do this. I mean, those are the limitations of that little man. Yeah, Bob can’t buy computer aids. Bob can’t invent Coldplay. He can’t cure all disease with the ice cell. He never went to school. He never went to med school. How can he do this? What were you just saying? And then there is this other aspect of what we are as humans. If you think, like Ayan said, you’ve been around for such a long time and you see a system of castles that are aligned with the ley lines. They have all these encoded, very complex things in them. And it’s like, what do you really know? How could you limit yourself to be a specialist? And that’s the thing with the Renaissance. I think we’re retrieving the Renaissance, but again, as it should have been, not the man that wants to learn about everything, know about everything, but the God that remembers. Right. That he knows everything. You’re saying that’s the real Renaissance? Yes, now. Now, okay, now. The new… Okay. The new rare, rare Renaissance. Rare, re-re-re-re-Renaissance. The re-re-re-re-Renaissance? Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray, And in a sense. Yes, ionocence. Ionocence. Okay, I’m going to try to read this very tiny… To declare the ionocence. What’s the first part? Today, with the return of iON… Yes. …the new ionescence started. All right. You know, I’m putting a re-… did you say re-ionescence? No, just the ionescence. Okay. I will attempt to read the outline of the Uncle Meat plot, very small print so I might be slow but it’s better than going to try to find the original album out in my garage. So he says, an evil scientist lusts for revenge after being laid off at a missile plant in the valley. Now, we had this in the Camp Beaver versus the Gwent people, 1964. This was part of the plot. Also, his father was always leaving employment. An evil scientist lusts for revenge after being laid off at a missile plant in the valley when the government contract is canceled. Using equipment stolen from the plant over a period of years, in brackets, assembled in a deserted Van Nuys, that’s a valley, Van Nuys Valley in LA, assembled in a deserted Van Nuys garage. And so he used that and some recipes uh… assemble in a deserted van nise garage uh… until you use that and some recipes for mystical potions there it is looking at rd drops that’s the alchemy there’s the alchemy right and some recipes for mystical potions from an old book alchemy and his Mexican slave, Bimbo, prepared to rule the universe with an army of mutant monsters. Quite ambitious. Yay! They’re going to rule the universe. Mutant monsters. Now his fan club was called United Mutation, so he’s actually talking about his fans, using his fans as United Mitations or monster, mutant monsters. So it’s canceled, used the equipment stolen from the plant over a period of years and some recipes. That’s us. Okay, a rock and roll combo, a rock and roll combo is kidnapped from the Whiskey A Go Go. A rock and roll combo is kidnapped from the Whiskey A Go Go, a rock and roll combo is kidnapped from the Whiskey A Go Go, disguised as groupies, Uncle Meat and Bimbo, so they, Uncle Meat and Bimbo, are disguised as groupies, lure the unsuspecting victims to their garage on the pretext of giving them a chance to expand their consciousness. They arrive at the garage and are given paper cups full of Kool-Aid. What? What did you say? You will ascend. Come to the garage. Yes. Come and we will help you. You will ascend. Come. You will go to parallel worlds. It’s I-8. I-8. I-8. I-8. I-8. I-8. I-8. I-8. Yes, come and we will help you. You will go to parallel worlds. It’s Ionic. It’s a typical pitch by iON. Is this type of jokes and things that are incepted, you say incepted, like inception? I didn’t say that word. Everywhere. Yes. No, but I ask you… Yeah, we’re incepted. Inception? We’re incepted right into everything. Yes. They arrive, they arrive in the garbage. And sometimes it’s like a joke. Yes. On the surface, he says, people don’t understand how you can do something seriously that you don’t take serious. But this is serious. Um, so they arrive, so the groupies grab Reuben and the jets. No, they don’t say, he doesn’t say the name, he just calls them a rock and roll combo at this point. They arrive at the garage and are given paper cups full of Kool-Aid, which is drugged. Uncle Meade and Bimbo place the victims on little mechanics cars, on little mechanics cars or carts from under an old Nash in the corner and cover the limp bodies with the psychedelic posters they have used to conceal the lab equipment. They prepare to administer the serum. So, you got, you know, psychedelic posters and they’re hiding machines and hiding a car, an old Nash, in the corner. So, each victim is given a blast from a nasal mist squeezer. Okay? Uncle Meat, who never really cared for Bimbo, takes him by surprise, grabs his head and stuffs the unit up his nose. Bimbo collapses, unconscious on the floor. Uncle Meat explains to the audience, and that would be menippean when you sort of break out of the illusion and just start talking to the audience. Uncle Meat explains to the audience that when he throws the switch on the wall, the minds of his victims will be completely reprogrammed with the details of his master plan. Well, that’s what we do with the drops. We reprogram people. a roll of computer tape and places it in the machine. The tape will be played directly into the brain, right? When the process is completed, not only will their consciousness be expanded, their brains will actually be enlarged. He explains that the human skull is hard bone, doesn’t really leave much room for the type of tissue growth the victims will experience here, will experience here. And the enlarged brain will extend through the sinus cavity into the noses of the group. This area has been softened by the nasal mist and will reshape itself to accommodate the extra brain cells. He throws the switch. Wow. Because iON says there is less oxygen and all these things with the hypothalamus? Yes. So it’s like a… like an allegory of that… Yes. …less oxygen, we are not breathing, and all these things happening in the brain. That are clogging up the nose. He throws the switch. Under the posters, the noses become erect. Uncle Meat explains further that the mutants have been equipped with a special, no, with a secret mind-destroying vocal drone mechanism. The sounds attack the glandular system of the victim, destroying his will and forcing his body to quiver helplessly while crazed fantasies race through his mind. Uncle Mead drinks a potion that will make him immortal. Look at that. The screen is hit with a stereotype bolt of lightning. The screen is hit with a stereotype bolt of lightning. The rustle of the posters is heard off screen. The mutants are rising. We see the streets of a city, high angle shot, filled with conservatively dressed people bustling about. Suddenly, a woman screams, drops her purse, and points into the sky. People gather around her and look up to see what’s going on. A greenish shadow covers them. They are frozen with terror. We see a reverse angle shot from their point of view looking out toward the city and skyline. Towering above it, swaying titanically, towering above it, swaying titanically, emanating immense white… Oh, look at this. There’s the white glove fingers. I forgot about that. Towering above it, swaying titanically… Maybe snatching. Yeah, you know how the 50s group, they’d clip their fingers, snap their fingers. Where is this? Yes, suddenly a woman screams. Suddenly a woman screams, drops her purse and points in the sky. People gather around her and look up to see what’s going on. A greenish shadow covers her. What’s going on? Yes, the green language. They are frozen with terror. We see a reverse angle shot from their point of view, looking out toward the city and skyline. Towering above it, swaying titanically, gnatching immense white gloved fingers, gnatching immense white-gloved fingers, gnatching immense white-gloved fingers, and lip-synching their latest hit, Reuben and the Jets prepare to destroy everything that contemporary civilization stands for. Aaaaaah! Yeah. The crowd is hypnotized. They begin to writhe and quiver and huddle closer together. The moon and the stars come out. Brightly colored crepe paper steamers descend from the buildings all around. Men and women hug each other close. Men and women hug each other close and begin to dance in the street. And begin to dance in the street. It says in brackets, super teenage romantic 1950 style. They’re dancing. Zoom in on a couple as they kiss and dance. Dissolve through distortion glass to dream sequence, to a dream sequence of 1950s drive-ins, make-out parties, high schools, the Korean War, and I Like Ike. High Schools, the Korean War, and I Like Ike, intercut with the… terrific… intercut with the… I don’t know, something ruminant jet’s brain snouts flapping in slow motion. Intercut with the something ruminant jet’s brain spouts flopping in slow motion. Cut abruptly to an extreme closeup of Uncle Meats speaking directly to the audience. Here’s what he says. Certain sounds at certain intensities have amazing effects on plants and vegetables. They’ll never take me alive, he says. They’ll never take me alive, ha ha ha, unquote. His laughter fades in echo as we dissolve to a starry night in the desert. So there he is dealing with sound frequencies. And what else was there? Okay. It is quiet. Okay, so we dissolve to a starry night in the desert. So the laughter fades in echo as we dissolve to the starry night in the desert. It is quiet except for a little light wind. We are traveling across the wasteland toward a huge hydroelectric dam. Dynamo hum increases as we near it. We cruise over the dam itself and appear to land on the top of one of the high voltage towers nearby. A shot from the ground level reveals a mysterious ice box while 39 Chevy Tacowagon helicopter has come to rest at the top of the tower. The door opens and a white gloved hand reaches out with a giant snipper. It cuts the big wire, big capital letters, the door opens and a white gloved hand reaches out with a giant snipper. It cuts the big wire, sparks fly all over, and the wire fails, and the wire falls to the ground. The camera moves into an extreme closeup of the hot wire as footsteps come crunching up out of the darkness. A gnarly hand reaches for the wire, picks it up and drags it away as the camera follows. The wire is drugged, no the wire is dragged quite a distance until firing the apple of pocket. What is that, Roxy? Firing the dragger, that’s the dragger of the wire, whips a giant ready-to-go electric plug out of his pocket, attaches… Now these are guys that won’t teach Iron Man, whatever his name was, Iron A-Drops guy how to do things. Attached, so he takes the giant wire and plugs it into, wait. Whips a giant ready to go electric plug out of the pocket, attaches it to the wire and plugs into an enormous female socket built into the ground. The sun is beginning to come up. We pull back to a wider view. Standing by the big wire and big plug and big socket is Uncle Meat in the distance. In the distance, we can see the tackle wagon helicopter lift off and float toward him in the sunrise. So do that again. The sun is beginning to come up. We pull back for a wider view, standing by the big wire and big plug and big socket. His uncle meet. In the distance, we can see the taco wagon helicopter lift off and float toward him in the sunrise. All right, there’s one more little paragraph here. Are you with me? You’re hearing yes. Yes. Okay. Over the shoulder of the Chevy helicopter driver through the chopped front windshield, we see Uncle Meats surrounded by a lot of big wires all plugged into the ground, some gigantic science fiction type electrical switches nearby, and a truckload of large hotel lobby flower pots with leafy green plants in them. All this is poised on the edge of the Grand Canyon. The helicopter settles in the rest of Paris. The helicopter settles in the rest of Paris. No, settles in the nest of plants. Uncle Meat, the helicopter settles in the nest of plants. Uncle Meat, the helicopter, settles in the nest of plants. Uncle Meat turns over, with each of the Chevys, crimped exhaust pipes. You had a game. So he’s got this scene going, and one of these friends from Grand Canyon sends him supplies covertly. And then it says, Uncle Meat jumps in the Chevy. Okay. The helicopter sentries in the nest of plants. The helicopter settles in the nest of plants. Uncle Meat runs over with a pair of microphones on short stands. He places them behind each of the Chevy’s crimped exhaust pipes and throws a big Reuben revs a big Reuben revs this may not be read read properly revs okay a a gigantic backs off the pipes uncle Uncle Meat jumps in the Chevy. The sound of the pipes amplified like the, like the something, like the rear of a rocket engine, lifting the cherry into outer space. And that, okay, into outer space, lifting the Chevy, not the cherry. The sound of the pipes amplified like the rear of a rocket and causes the plants to grow like shack in the beestock, lifting the Chevy into outer space. As the vines streak upward, large grotesque pods grow under the leaves and flop off on the ground near the big switches and into the canyon." Remember he said the hippies were rounded up in the Grand Canyon, concentration camp in the Grand Canyon. So there it is, read for maybe the first time ever into the record. Yes, and he’s talking about the future sonic and ultrasonic weapons that exist now. Okay, you toppled back in. You’re saying future sonic weapons exist now? What’s the context for that? Yeah, the sonic and ultrasonic weapons exist now. But he’s already presenting this type of thing. Well, it’s pretty good. He’s way ahead of everybody else. Forty years earlier, he talks about the plan that green man is supposed to do. But what are you saying? You’re saying that the… Well, there are new types of weapons that, for example, destroy your ears or damage your brain or cause disorientation. And the police or the military doesn’t have to shoot at you. Just with the sound, with the waves, with the impact of some frequencies, they can even kill you or injure you. It’s like our community is already developing this type of weapons. Could you say the last sentence? Exist now. Yeah, you’re saying the weapons exist now. technology is the mega big jokes and the mic. Did you say big joke? No, forget it. Just say the last sentence. You’re basically saying the new technology exists. What’s it got to do with this Uncle Meat booklet? Well, the sound sculpt. Well, the Uncle Meat sound… This thing you described, it sounds like some type of weird technology like the weapons that exist out with the sun, sound and ultrasound. Yes, yeah. So ZAP is predicting technology. It’s predicting the hologram acoustic branch. Right? Can you go with me on that? Right. Yes. You mentioned that it exists now. What’s your point about the fact it exists now in comparison to Uncle Meade? Yes, I’m not sure if at that time they had these type of things, but now they are a reality. They exist. Wait, no, I think Frank was imagining. But I think he could see that music can heal, but music can also be used as a weapon. And he’s describing this weird technology in the desert. Right. This type of wood. And he’s living in Lancaster just a few years before that where there’s weird desert phenomena. And yeah, he’s quite isolated. Okay, so are you ready, guys, for new facts? Yes. Yes. Bert, where the hell have you been? Did you just come back? I’ve been here. Crazy saying. No, I’ve been here. Crazy saying. No, I’ve been here. So what did you think of the accounting story? He’s talking about the beanstalk and then he just… What? He was talking… He was looking… I mean, the whole creativity, the whole beanstalk, that made me think of the effect that the eye cell has on everything. Right, yeah, good point. So it ends with the car in motion. You know, there… It’s… The script that he presents is… There’s more to be said in the script than having the plug-in of the dynamo hum than going across the desert. A little bit more of what Araki said, a little more identification of the new technologies, where they’re at, what that can do. But I think that’s the end of the Zappa portion of the program. Anybody got any suggestions? No? I now will… That was very nice. Yes. Sorry. Well, in reading it, did I read it too slow? Could you make it out? Was it okay? Yes, it was fine. All right. Yes, it was okay. So basically, the Uncle Meat thing I read you is all about programming the environment, many environments, with sound, right? Is that cymatics? Cymatics or cymatics? Cymatics or cymatics? Well… Yes, but cymatics affect matter in the structure of matter, like… Yeah? Like… It’s like a mutation of the particles. Okay. Then? Yes, so these type of things can be used for good or for bad. But he’s always making these scripts about crazy scientists in their crazy laboratories trying to conquer the world. And up against the government, the fascist government. Yes, we have all these amazing technologies but usually they’re used for war like McCloughan said many times. Yeah. Innovation. One of the results of innovation, too much innovation is war. Yeah. And just like, we cannot have an identity without violence. So what the funk with that funk, Fulcanelli with this hologram. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
1 Comment
Bob I've seen Mr. Zappa 25 times. Anytime you would like to talk..