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Chris is live at EuroBike 2024, checking out all the hottest bike tech an talking to the brands on their plans for the future.
Jesse has started riding his Tavelo disc brake road bike and TREK release the new Madone with some interesting claims.
Chapters
00:00 intro
00:29 Chris LIVE from EuroBike
03:26 New DARE Aero Bike
14:19 Classified X TRP
25:01 Seka Spear In The Flesh
37:08 28mm Tyres For Racing
48:47 Chinese Brands At EuroBike
55:00 3d printed hubs Scope Wheels
57:00 Where Are Big Brands
1:02:46 Tavelo First Ride
1:29:00 TDR Week 1 Round Up
1:37:53 Trek Madone Claims
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STRAVA: https://www.strava.com/athletes/186450
Check Out Jesse’s Coaching: https://www.nero.club/coaching
welcome to episode 90 of the Nero show in today’s episode Chris has headed to the world’s biggest bike trade show and gives us a rundown of all the road bike Tech that he’s seen and what’s interested in Jesse’s China build is real he’s put a few kilometers into it what does he think and Tre update their Mone we are not quite stoked with it we explain why all right let’s get into it all right Jesse Cole Chris got any news got any updates what’s what’s going on where are you at the moment side of the world I am I’m in I’m in Frankfurt Germany about 500 M from the uh local train station here the main train station and uh in just a little bit too much than walking distance from the large Trade Fair that is Euro bike yes getting amongst it okay those of you listening there’s my guide okay have you been walking around there as a punter or did you get a media pass for this thing I did get a press it doesn’t it doesn’t make a dramatic difference to your experience um you can kind of see people do check you up and down when they kind of see the past like what who is this guy what is this guy really all you’ve got here at the moment is is industry heads it’s it’s a full trade show these first three days uh the brands themselves and then the people walking around are the Distributors and the suppliers so there’s no there’s no punters here there’s no actual real life customers and then you we got the small wing of Legacy Media who I did meet a few of and then the the YouTube bubble we got a we got a little contingent of YouTube bubble here as well uh so because it’s Friday now so when does it open to the public to walk around kick the tires tomorrow yeah so Saturday and Sunday are more your Festival days and so on those days they’ll have the pump track there’s actually a crit um which would have been sick the it’s like a 2 and 1/2k CR track this just gives you an idea of how big this Trade Fair is there’s a 2 and a half K crit track inside the whole complex uh where EUR aike is actually happening which would be sick um that’s potentially on the on the mark for a for a future year so the actual test track that you do get to go and ride the bikes on is like it’s it’s actually a track so it’s not too bad um yeah and then so the public will come in over the weekend and then I think they’ll be like Red Bull sort of flip jumpy things and and that kind of stuff okay interesting now I I uh I want to get your opinion on sort of Brands you’ve seen products you’ve seen um do a bit of a walk around but we’re going to take some time you a lot of people might have seen on YouTube some of the walk around videos and some of the brands but they’re really only spending two or three minutes per per product is showing off we want to go a bit deeper and just chat through what you’re seeing what it means for for the industry how things are stacking up and things like that so we’re going to a bit of detail I also sent you on a bit of a side quest for this eurobike trip because I have been going down a bit of a tire with with Rabbit Hole um so I got you to to sniff around some of the brands trying to figure out why uh the brands are kind of pushing the 28 mil Tire width as the as the race Tire when I I from what I see could potentially be a little bit higher so we will also probably get into that as well but um yeah so what’s stood out to you what brands let’s let’s get started so yeah way I want to do this and I’ll do this really quickly is I just want to talk about the brands as I as I saw them right because what you do is you arrive on the train station you just get this massive guide and it’s that’s that’s all the brands that are here there’s no go go Chris go to classified over there because that’s where the new tech is you just have this massive place and you are pointing and shooting to to find things you want so I essentially went through the guide and I’m like right who who do I want to see first and dare was was kind of at the top of the list for me because you know abrahamson’s riding pretty well on at the tour and it’s you know it’s a bike that I think two of us are kind of pretty pretty keen on the look of and we like that style though I did so went up to up to D and and had a good sniff around that that aob bike and it is uh the pictures don’t do it justice it is easily for me um the most extreme bike I’ve seen in real life that’s not a prototype bike it’s quite it’s quite out there that that head tube is absolutely enormous and the bars are almost laughable how big they are they’re they’re quite they’re quite hilarious but so I got a chance to sit down and talk to both the unox sort of liais on officer so he’s the guy who talks to the brand and between the the writers them and the brand and what they sort of want and then the the dare people themselves and I I wasn’t able to get cuz I was pushing them on the AO data and I wasn’t able to get our you know tour magazine numbers but what what they were telling me is that they in comparison to the previous um era version that it was 7% faster and the other kind of tagline they were using which was quite interesting I thought was one bike length faster in a Sprint so I’m not quite sure how that was how that was measured but it was um was a bit of a bit of a strange one the the bike itself though and I I did want to kind of highlight this was so they’ve they’ve gone and this seems to be another thing they’ve theyve everyone’s going to this new grade of carbon so this is like the Step Up from the T 1000 everyone now is promoting this can’t remember exactly what it is I’ll bring it up on the on the screen but it’s it’s the new T carbon so they’ve gone to that one it is a redesigned frame so it’s not it’s not a frame that was they looked at the old one made a few tweaks this was completely redesigned from the ground up they made a big deal about that so the price that I got from from them was $555,000 um now there still sort of that’s an RP and whether that’s direct from their website or whether they’re starting to work with local retailers is another question that I’m asking them and that’s really Regional so they are they are going to be working with local retailers in Australia and Europe the US is a big outlier when it comes to a lot of these Chinese Brands they are all looking at going direct to consumer in the US and there’s a lot of reasons for that like industry reasons around tariffs and all kinds of things and the way that Brands own shops and stuff in the US so that number that they gave me is is their direct to Consumer number for for us customers in the future so that’s I thought that was that was kind of interesting the way they’re trying D is not a Chinese brand though no it’s a Taiwanese brand sorry I should clarify that okay I could have swore maybe I’ve just been bamboozled because they’re on a a European team I didn’t realize they were essentially an Asian brand yes okay 100% they’re Taiwanese brand interesting okay now I don’t know the history of them yeah yeah yeah yeah okay that pricing is actually before I get into the pricing I do want to mention the pricing of that $55,000 for a frame set what’s what’s chat around this bike because you’re seeing like the we’ll get probably get into the TR with d one bike to do it all sl8 uh saying that that’s all you need that’s all the world to a team needs so did you ask him what’s the point of even releasing an aob bike in that’s going to be a 2025 model why so I think we’ve talked about this a bit in the past that these second third tier brands are the ones that maybe are filling the void of the specific bike unit and that’s that there’s a really good example of that so they have a climbing bike they have a full-on arrow bike I think I’m allowed to say because he one of the writers is riding it at the tour to France and they’re going to have one bike to do it all bike so there is um this is a brand that yeah is is covering all the bases by the looks of it now the reason I I wanted to bring up the the uni uniex guy is so he was almost doing all the talking for me now yes there was a little bit of a language barrier with the Taiwanese guys but because but he was just going on and on about this aerobike in the sense that the their Writers Do honestly believe that it is faster than one B to do it all competitive pretty much seen them riding seems like all they’re riding is that unreleased UNR so they they have the option they’ve had the option I should say in the last month can I say this I probably can I don’t care um of the one bike to do it all or this and they’re all choosing this now when they when they get to the big mountain stages potentially that changes but um and the only other thing I wanted to say about this is because I asked them that question I asked him that question of like does this actually matter like you know we we sit here and go oh you know the pros will be pissed that one bikes to do it all and he’s like it 100% matters the the writers know what the brand is they know they get this choice of it and it it impacts their mindset and it to a lesser extent impacts just the who what bike brand is chosen by every team because that’s a that’s just the money thing like that’s a yeah I’m interested to see what the the weight comes to on this thing in a full build and also what the ride is ride f is cuz this the frame and we saw as well um I’ll send you the link to the article Chris you can put up some photos for the people watching on YouTube um we just saw van ryul have released a prototype aerobike which is just being ridden at the tour and these things look like they came out 10 years ago it’s a full-on hark back to gen one looking Arrow frames like this van risle one looks chunky as like hideous so the question hideously functionally fast so the question is um firstly what are they able to get these weights down to now that they’ve been able to develop these frame shapes for 10 plus years can they get the weights at a reasonable level and what’s the ride quality like do these still ride like gen one Arrow frames or have they able to get the ride and the weight to a level where an UNO X Rider is happy to ride it for every single stage of the tour and not getting absolutely smashed by it so if they can manage to do that then you have an interesting case weightwise I do know that that abrahamson’s build was sort of close enough to 8 kilos from from what I gather now they’re not running the lightest Wheels this they’re not going the full carbon spoke they’re on the D Swiss Wheels they’re pretty heavy which are fast every every brand that you talk to does clarify that the the D2 Swiss Wheels do well in any testing um and that I just quick on a quick side note most brands all test their bikes against other bikes and other builds and don’t necessarily talk about so they all know what everyone’s doing you know everyone knows what the Mone tests are internally they don’t tend to make a big deal out of it but everyone tests everyone as they probably should I mean that makes sense the thing that I’m a bit um stuck on there is the pricing so 55,000 for a frame set that’s sworks sl8 pricing um even the tarmac sl8 so the non sork versions 3 and a2k Us dolls so for a for an Asian essentially brand frame $55,000 you kind of BK at that number but as more of the main top tier Brands start to go one bike to do it all this this becomes a niche product and they can start to the price of that’s just going to keep going up and up because there’s less brands that are even bothering to do them so you know if this was four years ago I’d probably be laughing at that price but now that a lot of the big Brands don’t even bother well they can you know they probably can just charge that so yeah I mean but you know to charge the same as in s works for dare interesting I do hope I got that number right because she was searching for it she was like searching through her like WhatsApp messages to find the number and then she just blurted out 5 a half thousand us so hopefully I mean it does it doesn’t make me um I didn’t think that was a bizarre number for a for a what is becoming a more of a niche product fair enough ridden by a world un World Tour W ridden by World Tour level they are and it it the it was it was it was interesting I know no one said this but there was like this almost wink and Nod almost Melancholy like discussions between the dare people and the Uno X people that got me feeling like they’re not going to be on them for much longer but we’ll see maybe I’m wrong hopefully I’m wrong but again that that that was very much a money thing from what I gather just as your budgets go up can your can your brand can your black brand pay enough yeah so y all right so next up JC was the classified trp collab yes all that collabs bro and again like this is a funny one like I’m walking around I’m like there’s no one telling there’s no like flashing sign over in the corner that says like new tech here Chris come over you’re just sort of walking around and then like this this collection of black shirted people and there’s more people in this one little little corner area I’m like oh go over there look at that get over there I’m like classified oh interesting classified and I’m sort of standing there and I’m kind of looking closer at the classified stuff I’m like hang on what the hell is that and then it’s then it Dawns so it’s it’s again this kind of comes to this show thing it’s it’s not um it’s not that sort of obvious what you need to go well maybe it is for some people but but anyway so yeah um I I reckon we called this Jon I was I was about to say did we not say they need to have it in a a group set or come stock on a bike or something along these lines um they’ve really I mean this is probably more than I would have predicted to come out uh collaboration with a brand new group set that hadn’t already been released and that’s bang this hits the market new group set and it’s already integrated with classified that’s a that’s a that’s a killer relationship Kudos interesting you think oh yeah okay I mean well we’ll get into it but yeah just just very slick it’s not some hang hang on hang on hang on hang on oh okay slick interesting word we’ll come back to that Jesse okay um okay so just just for those of you who haven’t heard this is uh it’s a new group set between with classified working with trp which is a again I’m pretty right in saying a Taiwanese based group set manufacturer um and essentially what this is doing is is building the the classified Hub into their um their electronic group set H and what it does is so there’s no front derailer um and it allows you to shift 16 gears at the rear so similar to the way that your Shimano Synchro shift would have worked where you just continuously shift what this does is you get to a point on the the rear cassette and it engages the um the classified Hub to then create a seamless gift sh uh gear shift as you move through the gears and giving you 16 either side um I didn’t I sorry I did jump on the bike I was hoping someone would film me do it and it is pretty seamless I didn’t I I would I would argue that um going up the block it was quite good was almost unnoticeable going up the block coming down the block you definitely feel a little G as it because what it does is as yeah as a classified Hub um changes its gearing essentially it also goes the r rather goes the reverse direction to balance that out right on as you cross that part of the the gearing so I thought yeah as you’re coming as you’re shifting to harder gears you know there’s one shift with that der rail is going to suddenly go the opposite direction and then I was kind of yeah like I was curious as to if that how smooth that was the functionality of it was that actually set the bike up re I thought this was quite tricky the way they did it is that um there was very little resistance on the the trainer bike that you were set up on so it was almost impossible to actually put some Force into it it’s on urg mode at about 25 watts 100% And I actually asked them could they turn it up because you’re spinning at like 300 Cadence to try and get any um any power out through it um but yeah so that’s that’s and there is also what they call like a dump feature so which will open up then the full 24 gears um and that that is more like a front derailer shift essentially and which will which will open up more gears for you and is a separate button and that is obviously quite a noticeable Thing Once you once you do hit that um so that was that was the functionality of it but the look of it um so that was classified own um uh chain set um which I kind of thought was a bit interesting they weren’t using a trp one um so the trp are basically the rear derailer and the the brakes and the the levers and classified doing everything else um yeah so again we we called this we were we were big on this is this has to be the next step for for you um what so you’re you’re you’re hyped about this you feel this is this is a good move I think so I think it looks pretty good you run one by you’ve got more range of Gears than you had on a two by System um it does it for you Quantum shift they call it I like that too Quantum shift so you got 16 gears um again like if if the longevity of it good and the friction is similar to a a road bike sorry a regular cassette and two I I would probably ride this um and the weight if it’s not too heavy that that rehab looks massive kind of going how much does that thing weigh but um I think it looks really neat and in in in like this road space where it’s really hard to get anything that’s Innovative and is kind of different this does look like progress oh they’re going to love you saying that all right um uh so I I agree about the functionality longterm be interested to see uh the other kind of like practical functional question I have that was raised by a couple of people was just in terms of the actual frame the bike frame designs that a few people saying that frames aren’t designed to take load in that area the way that the classified Hub is putting through those rear stays um not that frames can’t do it just that frames simply aren’t designed for that so they tend to be designed to take a little bit of extra reinforcement around that front derailer area they’re not taken for for large shifts and dump modes down in that rear derailer through that rear rear axle so that’s potentially something to to discuss down in the future but can I just quickly say something about about classified Jesse M yep these guys are like the cool kids at school that it’s almost like an honor to be talked to by them there’s a real so Chris Chris Vibe doctor walking around this place I just got a really weird vibe of the whole classified thing so again it’s the guys they’re all in their black classified t-shirts and they’re there’s a massive cool Club kind of feel and sensation to it that it’s an honor for you an honor for us to potentially be told something about this group said if one of them looked at you even you kind of oh I’m in I’m in the cool go I’m in the cool guys and it it’s a weird vibe because it’s a it kind of felt like they were um they feel like they’re a lot bigger than they are and the reason I sort of bring this up is they they’re really not theyve still very very Niche I mean the size of like the stand and all that kind of thing is very much in line with random helmet manufacturer or um third tier Tire brand so they’re they’re still sort of playing at that level but you know they got the music P it’s it’s all a whole vibe the classified thing which okay makes me I just kind of have this sense that they’re not really in it for the for the Long Haul they’re kind of in it for the get the look and feel just get enough enough functionality enough product out to potentially be bought or something like that I just yeah that that that’s kind of why I just would hang off this being like hey get in get in the classified ecosystem because these guys are in it for the long haul I just reckon they’re in it for a good time and to potentially get out so okay yeah okay that’s that’s that’s my I mean not that um like if the system if let’s say Shram look at the system and go [ __ ] this is low friction the weight’s pretty good this is much cleaner we could sell this easy it wouldn’t be the worst thing if they do get bought out if that that’s probably what’s going to see it get on millions of bikes so yeah um yeah I I’m full on the classified hyp train I think I think it’s cool yeah nice flipped I like it good oh this is we can get onto the Seeker let’s go to something just a little quicker just about the group sets I watched on Dave Arthur’s video he was walking around going to some of the brands and I don’t know if you were clocking this so I’m kind of putting on the spot here it did look like at most of the brands bike brand stands their Marquee bike that they had on the front had sham red on it not Shimano is that just a coincidence of the brands that were featured on these the videos that I was watching or did you see did you see that yourself no I think I think it was split I do think it was split yeah just kind of running through what I saw in my my brain um no it wasn’t it wasn’t obvious okay no okay no it wasn’t I didn’t see one I will say that yeah um we talked about Dare for example there dare Uno X are a shiman team running Shimano and their Limited Edition colored frame set on the front of the stand had Shram red on it uh the Seeker spear had Shram red on it yeah okay so still maybe it was just the ones I was seeing I will say that dare bike they had a 50 to chain ring on it I mean guys if you’re going to put a bike up there come on let’s see a big boy on it it the chain ring looked hilarious on that bike like I think that it has to ship with a 54 compulsory must [ __ ] with a 54 um yeah so SE bike can we talk about the SE bike the seeka spear yeah SE spear this is getting a bit of mentions in some YouTube titles and which is interesting because this um so seeka were there not really there by themsel they’d kind of come last minute he uh the guy who was there was actually kind of attached to another almost like distribut type guy and I I was actually following um GP lmer at the time he was going to go for a meeting and I’m like I recognize that b B and I went over and I was like oh that’s the Seeker Spear and and EV I got talking to the guy so again this is just another thing of like saying it’s not like seeka were there with this big massive like you know stand and saying you know come here with this new brand it was very much it kind of still felt like a if you know you know like 99% of the people that were there would have walked straight past this corner stand bike and not paid any attention to it so I know we make a big deal about this on YouTube but like in that space I can tell you it’s still pretty invisible MH okay what what did you what did you think about it yeah that’s it I was um I was I think I messaged you about this when I actually saw it like this was a real highlight for me actually um not only just to seeing that in person because the frame itself um really detailed um super light I think he’s I think he’s claiming sub 700 sub 700 gram frame um but the actual shapes on it and that I know they’ve got a name for it what what do they call the thing at the rear end the the wind eye the window eye ey I mean it the brown eye it doesn’t look anything what are you riding in the rain you know it’s a bit Yeah bit of TI spray it looks way more intricate and interesting than the tri like it’s not even on the same planet and you know I did ask him like is there any sort of comparison and he is very very firm in saying that this exists because of many models that they did that they found that this design actually had some aerodynamic advantage and some compliant Advantage it’s completely their own design and um yeah it’s they’ve got some sort of some kind of wind tunnel testing that that seems to back some of those claims up I I just want to just quickly also mention so we talked in the past that these guys have done some wind tunnel testing um they’ve since gone back into the wind tunnel and uh with some of the redesigns that they’ve made things like around the um the chain stays which which they slightly chained the tubing on and the handlebars they completely redesigned the handlebars but they were they were absolutely sick really deep flat looking looking things um with fully customizable lengths and widths which again um is something that is is kind of unique to some of these Brands by fully customizable I had to look through the stock I think you mean like more options like they go down to a 36 um width and length yeah okay um you sent me the the white paper to to to have a look over I mean it’s pretty uh this white paper is very well put together uh this looks very similar to the in quality to the Tre one um so yeah they’ve got their AO testing numbers frame weight vertical compliance is increased compared to their old the secri seed that one that looked like the Ostro the factor Ostro vam um stiffness to weight and stiffness is increased blah blah blah I will say a couple of things that stood out I was having a a brief pick through especially comparing this to TX one which we might get into too for that new Mone is they’ve tested against their old secr seed and a Tac sl8 in collaboration with AO coach in the UK they have tested with a dummy with only legs that weren’t moving and then with a rider on it um so they they’ve got basically static conditions of the legs and then also more real world with the with the rider on it and they’ve also tested at 40 km an hour across a sweep of your angles a pretty standard testing so they’ve actually tested it at I think as a pretty reasonal speed it seems like the industry standard to test now is 40 to 45 km an hour then you’ve got you’ve got you know weird things like d said which is you know at a world t a Sprint so they’ve probably you know 65 kmers an hour which is not particularly relevant and then you’ve got what Tre did which is tested at 200 Watts like who’s what what goods aerodynamics at 200 Watts so on the on both of those extremes are just they don’t make sense so this testing to me looks um pretty reasonable it was um oh sorry and they also compared uh with a giant TCR the the new model too so um yes it was the was the 2024 TCR yeah so they also tested yeah with the 20124 TCR so four bikes in their test um you can go through and look at the results for yourself they they they it’s you know quite good aerodynamically faster than their old bike and you know aerodynamically seemingly uh pretty close to the sl8 so you know fair enough um and as well the interesting other little package here that they’ve got their little bundle of accessories also was quite impressive so that comes with all your mounts and things like that integrated bottle cages similar to like that come on the giant Propel that look quite nice so pretty a nice little neat package there the pricing a lot of those you go on sorry the pricing I don’t know if you got thoughts on this but the the pricing is a sticking point for me because I got the pricing in a the current Australian pricing which is available and then just converted it to US dollars so it should be fairly close the regular model they’ve got two models the regular model and the RDC which is lighter so the regular model frame set no handlebars it’s $2,151 and then the lighter model $2,693 The Handlebar which you’re going to have to buy separately is $400 so you know a specialized tarmac sl8 frame set not the SX model just the regu model is $3,500 so Seeker who don’t appear to have any marketing budget at all I can’t really they’re not ridden as as far as I’m aware I can’t see any teams that they ride that that ride the frames I’ve never really seen anyone on it really um so I when you’re buying a bike whether you care about the marketing or not it is nice to see teams or other people having ridden the bike so that doesn’t exist um and then comparing this to other sorry just comparing this to other bikes in the that this kind of direct from Asia space like the yellow arrow for example uh that includes the handlebars and is 1880 USD which was already people were kind of like well that’s that’s A Cut Above the other you know direct from Asia frame so this is pretty expensive they’re doing everything right like you you’ve looked at the frame in person you think it looks really nice they’ve sent it off for testing you can people that are interested in go looking the data for thems and see if it’s you know something that they would like it’s a frame I would probably happily ride and I think it probably is quite good but when you don’t do any marketing you can’t charge in my opinion that kind of price without handlebars because your brand doesn’t have any cache it’s just the Seeker so I’m a I I would question that that pricing I I don’t really get but if you’re if you’re trying to align your brand in that in that space for the long term you almost H this is my take is you almost have to charge that to set basically the watermark for where you’re going to be in the future I mean I would like to think that you okay you set yourself right this is this is where we are we are this much cheaper than an sl8 we’re this much cheaper than a factor but we are in line with this this this this this we’re not to and when potentially the marketing comes down down the track um you are you you’re you’ve already sort of laid your slate out for where you where you lay in the market and I know that I I asked that question because that number sort of took me back a little bit as well and it’s just like well we’re here for the long term we’re not we’re not here to to compete with toell we’re here to compete with sell and that’s I I suppose you just have to to you know how many more metaphors can I can I use for yeah yeah if if you want to compete with people have to ride your bike so I do want to get on can I get on to distribution because y That’s I posted some some um story stuff about this bike and I just kept I just got so many people just saying where can I get this where can I get this and so this is this is the biggest problem that these brands have is distribution specifically in America it’s just the the tariffs that they get charged when they push in there directly are qu are massive and the shops don’t tend to want them because they have deals to sell trcks specialized so um he’s it’s it’s it’s not a priority market for them because of the difficulty to get in there and so something like Australia they’re not going to go direct to Consumer they’re going to go through retailers so I think um even Cas you’re going to pick them up um the same in UK and Ireland they’re going to be going into into Distributors that’s that’s coming in August this bike will be available in late August in um in Distributors so that that’s a little bit clearer um but it’s you’re you’re right like it’s it’s not as easy um and until you can kind of start selling big numbers in in the US it’s it’s going to stay at this kind of level okay interesting yeah I’m I I a couple of things I’m pretty impressed like they’ve pretty much done everything well like it’s a very if you kind of looking if you’re kind of doing a custom build and you’re looking to buy a frame set that’s a very convincing product and that fact that you’ve seen it you’ve seen a lot of bikes the fact that you’ve seen it in person and went wow that looks impressive um their white paper lays out as well all the different types of carbon they’re using you know whether that makes a difference you know we don’t know because it hasn’t really been reviewed but testing’s pretty convincing you know the man manufacturing looks convincing I think it’s pretty interesting one in the market I’m pretty easily convinced though Jesse like nice paint job kind of cool looking you know fiddly thing that kind of makes me go o what’s that you know it’s pretty easy to convince me that something’s kind of good like let’s let’s not overstate how sort of important my sort of froth not to lie there’s a there’s a there’s a vast majority of people that are buying a bike based on oh I saw John and it at the cafe and it looked pretty nice true that’s about as if it ticks that it’s about as good as it gets yeah yeah fair enough so one of the brands that are pushing this 28 is the optimal tire that’s the race tire is Giant and they especially as part of their kadex Max 40 Wheel Systems that you’ve been testing um so did you manage to go and speak to Giant and get them to convince you to go back to 28 mil tires yes yes and no okay um so I spoke to more than just ch I spoke to a lot of wheel manufacturers about this um okay and so there’s there’s two things going on here the answer is no can I just there there’s the real no no one convinced me to go back to 28s okay but you’d have to convince T Pacha too yeah well why so why are why are isn’t everyone just doing 25 mil minimum Rim internals and we’re all bouncing around on on these these wi tires um there is still a like this internal battle that seems to happen with with a lot of the brands that the aerodynamic people in in a brand will continue to maintain that anything wider than a 28 is an aerodynamic disadvantage and when um these things get put into to wind tunnels there is a there is a 2 to three to four watt difference when it comes to to these wider tires and couple that with the fact that on super super clean Taiwanese perfect Road surfaces that a 28 Will Roll as fast if not faster than a 30 couple on the Arrow Advantage you are struggling to convince developers that the rolling resistance for bumpy shitty roads that the rest of us all ride on is is something we should be considered but what’s what’s kind of really the takeaway that I’ve had from the these sort of chats is we give the industry a lot of [ __ ] that we get force fed stuff that as cyclists we don’t want it’s almost the opposite here because the the the customers are demanding wi tires and the industry don’t really want to do it yet yet there’s a yet there um they know they’ll have to get there eventually but they they almost want to drip feed us the progress down to that um but the customer is is talking with where they want to buy these these wider Rim internals now and they’re seeing that and it’s fast tracking a lot of these changes and that’s that goes across all the different brands that I saw like so the um um the kex stuff was they’re still they’re still trying to to maintain that aerodynamically specifically with their tires that it is a faster setup but they also do believe well they they also are convinced that the market wants wider they’re going to have to go wider and that in a lot of circumstances wider is faster and it’s interesting like these are battles and just and chats that these people are sitting around at Brand tables having going oh [ __ ] we need to go wider no no like it’s just like this all right so no is the answer I they didn’t convince me to go back to 28 okay so you’re quite happy you’re running uh 30s now on your S5 or 32s yes 30s on the S5 okay and you’re yeah quite happy to stay on 30s you’re not gonna start creeping back okay 100% yeah interesting there’s there’s there’s yeah yeah and again like no one tried to convin No One tried to sell me that because a lot of the people that talk kind of got rough idea of the kind of writing I did no one really tried to sell me you know what Chris no you need to go back to 28s there’s an advantage there most people were like yep we know we know yes so it exists it’s it’s a real them interesting okay okay I still do find it a little frustrating though that even in the Tre madone release that they’ve come out and 28 mil wide is the ultimate race Tire you know they still which okay according to what you’ve said is potentially it but when you’re making a Do-it all bike which is in my opinion more of a bike for the masses not a bike for the world tour and then W within that package your tire technology is arguably more for the extreme case of the world tour and not for the masses because based on what you’ve just said and what we’re kind of seeing you know a 30 mil Tire or even a 32 in some cases is more beneficial for the masses than the 28 so it’s a that contradiction in what we’re seeing with some of the marketing and this the specs sheets and things like that just irks me I just have to get off my chest it’s it’s seems to be contradictory it’s 100% a lie I’m willing I’m willing to say that it’s 100% a lie um I don’t know whether I need to go into this now but I think it be interesting to talk about what you were what we were sort of chatting about is in the timelines of the releases of some of these products can I can I go there now yeah yeah yeah so the reason I say that marketing is a lie is because they they know where they’re taking us they the the 2030 product line is already locked in it’s already designed already built there’s there’s a whole other I’m not you have an example of that no but so the there’s a whole other world that happens here I’m I’m just scratching the surface right I’m I’m just walking around talking to these people about what what’s going on there’s a hole behind the curtain crowd I’m not in the cool cool team right and behind the curtain is all this stuff is is what shrams group said is in 20 30 is what shimano’s timeline is for 2030 is what Giant’s timeline is for 203 it’s all done the TCR for two iterations next is done and so the reason then I say that the the 28s are a lie is because we know that in I can guarantee you that the next version the next version the next version will be telling us that the the rolling resistance now tells us that 30s are the fastest tire and that they are the superior race tire and to be honest like that timeline and that um behind the curtain Club it kind of has t has sort of taken a bit of a shine off this whole experience for me because you’re walking around going oh here I am at the latest and greatest seeing all the industry’s finest and I’m like actually I’m not like the people in behind there are seeing what’s where’s the stuff that that’s really going on and yeah so it’s it’s uh so that that marketing language that that we’ve we’ve talked about is it’s more [ __ ] than I thought just because they already know where they’re headed it must be a tough job though because what can they like they can’t it’s such a slow moving thing to change you know what hundreds of thousands of units of stock that like you you have to be you in the current year essentially behind the times unless you’re one of these smaller brands that can pivot quicker so they don’t really have a choice but to just try and sell us 5-year-old Tech because it is because you can’t just generate 100,000 Wheel sets you know in a month and then have them in stock and that’s that’s the answer to that question that I got from from that guy is like I’m like well why can’t they just start doing the 2030 stuff now it doesn’t work like that Chris like cuz I’m pissed off I’m I’m sitting there I’m pissed off I’m like well I want I want to know do I want to know I’m just like you’re going to flog us old tech for the next five years or it’s just like this constant thing and it’s just like that’s not how it works because you’ve already set up your supply chains and your designs and your you your factories for a particular design for the next period of time time like that’s and then it sort of flows through it’s like the the max the the the wheels that I’m riding at the moment those Max 40s they were probably designed four years ago so for them the the 22 mil Rim internals 4 years ago was like whoa we’re going to be Market leading you know throw into the mix maybe maybe the kind of way that the the Chinese stuff the panda Podium stuff can just maybe get stuff out faster changes that timeline specifically with wheels a little bit and there in lies the skill of the consumer to be a little Savvy in trying to pick what yeah what’s good what’s is latest what’s what are you kind of being sold that is a little oh not not sure if that’s actually true like that’s that’s the hard part because it all sounds amazing but isn’t necessary can I do one last little bit of inside of chat before we move on yeah please so you know we were talking about Shram Shimano being like the we we kind of got the sense that they were everyone was going to go further and further apart that you know the the the Shram and Shimano person was going to become more clearly defined as as the brands kind of settle go go further and from what I understand that’s going to both brands are both brands are doubling down on what they’re good at for the next 10 years so my my reading between the lines of that is that Shimano is probably going to what they’ve they’ve released this grx stuff people are kind of shitty at it that it’s not new age enough that it’s not really trying enough like okay I can kind of read the tea leaves there does that then mean that they’re going to basically go you know what we Lo we’ve lost that market [ __ ] it we’re just going to absolutely nail Road and then maybe what we were saying about the the Shram thing about being more okay we’re going to be this like absolute ecosystem this goes with that this goes so you’re you’re your group set bits are are kind of becoming more mashed together so almost like the opposite that they’re going to be this yeah like ecosystem that can can combine and work with with each other with all sorts of different disciplines that kind of thing happening is uh is was kind of like you just read the tea leaves Chris you can see what’s happening just go with it so that was that’s my that’s my my without getting to go behind the curtain that’s my my look behind the curtain okay so we we our kind of our speculation isn’t miles off because like the bike industry aren’t Geniuses like you you can get a sense of where they’re headed so kind of following on for that then this whole nine thing this kind of secret little section of the Expo where the wheeling and dealing go on did you get to have a look around what’s what’s the happening behind there B9 is it’s too much for me it is yeah it it’s if you want to you could come in and uh 100% walk out with a a small frame manufacturing brand that would you know produce pretty good quantity of stuff and and and um get get the nuro show aerrow bikes on the market and get it get it going pretty soon um yeah in terms terms of like so I did I had a look so fast Sports so they like all all it’s it’s weird seeing like real people in front of some of these things um I I did want to just quickly mention the wheel toop is it wheel toop yeah wheel toop brand that the um group set thing yep um so they’re to give you an example like L2 L2 is in the main Halls now right so they’re in they’re in with Shram Shimano giant el2 you’re all in there so that’s that and their stand was big so like just to give you an example like that that means they’re like really trying right um wheel TW wheel TW sorry wheel toop wheel TW is collab um wheel toop is up on Hall 9 like there’s two levels of Hall n like in like a corner of Hall n had to be found type thing and let’s just I think we just need to all Chill on this wheel top all right it’s for those that haven’t been following wheel toop are another Chinese group set brand that have just released another electronic Wireless version in the last few months I did the only reason I want to say I chill I’ve just seen a few YouTube videos like the I didn’t watch them but like the thumbnails were like oh sham Shimano be frightened whe sorry wheel to gotta get this out of my head um wheel my God oh my god um wheel top are coming they’re not coming like it’s very very very basic tick um it like felt very mic remember microshift like the reder rail is massive like big chunky heavy slunk of metal like it’s it’s it’s commuter is like it’s not right okay yeah we just need to chill on it um I’m not against it but just don’t think it’s like don’t think it’s on near L2 like it’s Generations behind that in terms of like the build quality from what from what I saw um so yeah just just you’re going to piss off a lot of people I got all these people going what’ you buy that for you should have got the wheel top like yeah it looks anyway you think it looks good no no I thought the wheel I agree with you in that the wheel toop look looked not it you know it looked like it came on like a $2,000 OEM Chinese I mean I think that’s what it’s for but so that’s not no grip and like most all the groups at manufacturers would have like a bike that you could sit and ride and shift through it like they didn’t have that they were they were like just you can just pick up the components or there was like the machine thing you know that like spins the the um the crank so you can it just keeps a a steady force on it so yeah anyway that’s just that’s just one I want to say on that yeah other than that look I’m going to be honest like Hall n that’s for like hamb beaning and Peak talk I don’t know what’s going on in there like it’s there’s there’s there’s no shiny objects for Chris to get excited and frothy about in there so it it was probably the whole apart from all the ebike I’ll get into the ebike stuff but apart from from that it’s probably the SP the space I spent the least time in but it was was interesting and you’ve commented on this in the past very few of the kit manufacturers I thought there might be a bit more of that but it’s no it’s still just very bike equipment so today’s episode is brought to you by bikes online your One-Stop shop for everything bike related now that’s whether you are after Brands such as Pock Wahoo 100% Shram laser a new road bike like the polygon Helios bikes online has you covered Jesse on the website what’s on there given that bikes online have come to the table with a discount code applied to a few of the products I want to go through and just show off this gravel bike because the with 5% off this Tambora G7 uh price now originally is 2999 that’s already the discounted price and then with with with the code N5 that takes another $150 Australian dollars off so you’re getting a full carbon gravel bike clearance for up to 4 45 mm tires with carbon wheels with Shram Apex 1X 12 speed for the price of 2849 which is a killer killer price for that bike I love my gravel bike I think a lot of people would be good having having a N plus1 Gravel bike good for the rain good for a bit of Adventure stuff if you want to get into that good for commuting and that’s a that’s a killer price for that for that build yeah so just to reiterate that code it is nero5 it’s 5% off those already discounted items um they’ve got their 30-day bike returns they’ve got the 5% price match guarantee and the $79 for free shipping guys the way I would think about this is add this website to your quier of sites to go and look at to check out when you are searching for your brands in your bike parts because there’s going to be quite a few occasions where you will find what you need on this site and it will most likely be cheaper again I’ll drop those links to those products down below and thank thank you very much to bikes online for supporting this show um I did want to talk about the scope Wheels but I’m going to wait maybe till I get back um because they haven’t sent me any of their white paper stuff so this was just me sort of taking notes on the chat but it was a it was an interesting this was again one of these ones you just sort of walk around and then eventually you’re just walking past millions of wheel Brands and then I I kind of had another look at this this scope wheel brand I was what’s going on here and you sort of went over there I’m like oh so they they are actually 3D printing their hubs which 3D printing and my first question was like I don’t care like 3D printing what does that mean to me like just who cares how this is made and the guy’s like yeah I get that um but he was kind of selling me the idea that the reason you 3D print your hubs is you can make them lighter and you can make them more intricate to work better with um carbon spokes because that’s where they’re all going carbon Spokes and so the where the the the M the um carbon spoke integrates with the Hub you can do a better more intricate design with the with the 3D printing now I kind of got all frothy and excited about that because that’s the kind of thing that gets that gets Chris all excited um but at uh there some name dropping now so I’m at lunch lunch with the boys with uh with with llama and hambini and um Ronin and a few other few other troops and I was telling them about how excited I got about this and hambini is like shut up Miller like go and have a look and I was like what what do you think from an engineering perspective and he’s like total crap total crap like what don’t burst my bubble like that um anyway so he wanted me to go back and have a look cuz he he was saying that the 3D printing system wouldn’t allow the um axle to be a perfect um cylinder just in terms of the way that the 3D printing works so anyway I I I I have no no take neither here nor there but I would like to go back and um I’m I’m still I’m still about them I reckon I reckon there’s something in that so I’m going to I’m going to anti-am them um as far as as far as he’s concerned even in all this chat we’ve only really mentioned a few Brands like there’s got to be like for such a big show there’s got to be more Brands like is it just is are there all just sort of random bike brands particular doing Road stuff or is it actually quite scarce yes yes and no so you’re right like the big Brands aren’t here um the big Brands like Tre specialized um campy is Canyon there no Canyon’s not here yeah so we can probably name a few like pinello aren’t here um but then there there are brands that like Scot which are bigger than we see definitely that that are here that have that have big presences was there yes Cuba here fter here um um who was it um what are they there for who are they promoting to to Distributors shop shops yeah suppliers yeah suppliers Distributors there’s this is this is where they do their their um they basically sell their wees to to distributors um the Distributors will then so there’s all these meeting rooms so mostly you’ve got like a um where the the bikes are and the salespeople walking around and they’re actually a lot of the people aren’t salese they’re actually the marketing director of the company so that’s that’s why you’re here is because the person Manning the stall tends to be someone of a position in in the brand um and so then you go and you sit down and you do your meeting and you work out how many belt aerob bikes you’re going to buy for your for your distributor in West Flanders for the next 18 months and that’s that’s the main purpose of this um and yeah so they’re not and yeah um I’ve spoken about the scale a lot and that it is it is like overly massive but when you do boil it down to the road thing so there’s there’s five Halls big Halls really only two of them two and a half of them are Road and mountain bike the rest is all ebike all ebike all Mobility um and the the size of those Halls are triple the size of the road and mountain bike hle so if you then want to split it into just Road you’re probably saying 1 and a half halls and now you’ve got sort of gravel kind of creeps into that so Road and then performance road is an even smaller element of that so whilst it is kind of pretty large in scale and overwhelming when you start sort of nailing down on it it does it does shrink a bit so gu guys like GP Lama and and DC rain maker get more out of it because there’s the whole Tech element on top of that and the tech element can come with the power meters and the train and all that kind of stuff so that’s another element on top which interests me but not to the same extent obviously um so so for them there’s more of that and you know there’s then the opportunity to kind of talk to the people about what’s coming up and and that kind of thing um but yeah I don’t know like ultimately it was really good to come here see it do I need to come back anytime soon probably not I think you know we could probably do a a Shanghai a taipe bike show or a Shanghai bike show next year or the year after and tick that box I don’t think we desperately need to to to make an appearance at this very often it was kind of fun seeing I mean it’s very rare you get to sit down and just talk YouTube with YouTubers like that’s super rare so I kind of really enjoyed that um kind of hearing different people’s stories and like the content that they’re trying to get out from this is um yeah like them trying to work out what products going to pop for their eurobike video is is kind of interesting the problem is the two of France is on so it’s very difficult to cut through like my YouTube homepage good luck getting a eurobike video through with all the and that was that was literally the chat so Cav won the other day and that was Cav won on day one of eurobike and like they all said like views were just massively down I’m like yeah like who cares about classified Zed grade collaboration when C’s just broken the record like come on like my little dig at what did they do to you Chris they must they must they didn’t offer me a coffee they sorry who are you like me oh you make YouTube videos they’ve done something can I can I just say so there is a bit like it is that’s what it is like um you do go up and then most people don’t know who you are and like who are you like are you a distributor I’m like no I make YouTube videos and then they kind of do the oh God sort of thing um and then you then it’s then they’re wondering whether I’m worth their time even talking to and some people aren’t they’re just like I don’t care like go talk to someone else so yeah all right so I’m I’m having Mass this is the longest I’ve had on the off the bike in fcking years I’m hating life right now so I’m going to live vicariously through you Jesse um you the tll has arrived have you got have you been out on it can you can you give me some some some Chats on it okay so I’ve had it for a week but I’ve had the flu and i’ so I’ve ridden I think I’ve done four three or four rides on it so I am I am a few weeks away from actually giving some good feedback but yeah I’ve written it and I guess we can we can shat it shat about it a little bit um I just want to be careful because uh spoiler alert I I’m very happy with it but I just haven’t spent a lot of time with it so I don’t want to go and start going into heaps of detail until I’ve given it enough time to test but yeah so build jeez how many caveats do you want to put on this bloody hell come on you’re you’re under the pression I’ve I’ve ridden it for like four hours it’s not as easy as you thought is it to talk about a bike it’s all will to [ __ ] on Chris when he’s not able to talk about the S5 okay not when half the point of me getting in the first base was to actually test it not just to say it rides really well and everyone should go buy it so but yeah I will talk about it because I want to be some annoying person just sort of half bring it up so uh the build of it went uh pretty fine the only things wrong with the build was the so it’s a pressfit bottom bracket but the bottom bracket that it comes with and the cyb bottom bracket that I I got for it are you press one bearing in and then the other side threads in we could not get the other side threaded in it kind of got halfway in and it was taking so much talk and it wouldn’t it just wouldn’t screw in the mechanic so Jared at BR he thought that the reason why it wasn’t screwing in and Joe had a similar was because potentially the alignment wasn’t bang on so that you were sort of trying to screw it in and then it was just ever so slightly misaligned that it was just getting way too hard yeah too much tension in the cup so basically we ditched that bottom bracket I went over to C just bought a regular Shram dub pressfit bottom bracket and then he pressed the cups in and they went in they went in well so it wasn’t like an issue with the sizing of the bottom bracket maybe it was like an alignment thing not sure so anyway that problem got solved just by using a regular press in bottom bracket um the only other thing was it was a little hard to get the hoses uh through the handlebars um there was no guides in there and it was a bit just difficult to thread through we kind of had to like have the magnet out and was kind of trying to thread the the cables through for a little while so that took longer than than Jared said would be common on some other builds some other frames he’s done where they either come with a guide already through and you can kind of run run the hose through I think that’s the term or or it’s just the the tracking of the that um the hose or the cable through the the part either the chain stay or the um handlebars is just smoother so it’s just somehow goes through um aside from that the build was fine the weight of the bike so we industry standard way no pedals but with head unit Mount bottle cages ready to ride just without pedals in a size 56 equivalent it was 7.2 kilos with 65 75 front and rear deep Wheels which uh I thought was it was lighter than I thought it was going to be I was pretty blown away with that weight that’s wild yeah and that’s with you 30 mil front tire 32 mil rear tire so um you know with pedals with the ASAS that have the power meter in them it’s 7.5 ready to ride um which yeah frame set was uh the the frame was 1,50 grams and the fork was about 380 something um so it’s kind of it’s the same weight as a as an sl7 Pro um a bit heavier than a heavier than an sl8 which is crazy like it’s lighter than the giant propell frame set um lighter than the canyon a road non CFR model frame set so like yeah that weight for a build I mean what’s your S5 way uh well with one buy it’s 75 with but my my wheels are like, 1600 G yeah they’re not light wheels yeah um yeah yeah yeah so it’s that’s that’s amazing I mean the S5 is yeah a fully fledged aob bike so yeah obviously it’s not Apples to Apples but like that was yeah pretty lightweight okay so now um what else can we get into uh first few rides what have I noticed coming from a from the TCR oh group set installed by the way fine no issues except the apps in Chinese so you download the L2 app because you do the adjustments for the derailers in the app so you download it it connects via Bluetooth straight away no issues but the app’s in Chinese so it’s it asks you for a password and then all these steps so I had to screenshot the app open it up in the Apple photos click translate to see what the field was and I was like oh it’s asking for a password okay so put a password in so and then I like finally get into the app and then I’m trying to find where the the settings button is so I can the language so again screenshot translate so my app is now in English but that was kind of funny that I’m going through multiple menus to get to the language settings you would have thought when you download the app the language selection is the first option but alas they’ve bued it in a bunch of Chinese menus um the app but it connects fine it works well so yeah it’s it’s all good um the actual black so comparing to the TCR uh it is obviously a little heavier so it’s about about 200 g the total build is about 200 g heavier than my TCR was with the light wind space Wheels it’s about 300 grams heavier so yeah it’s a bit heavier but obviously it’s got disc brakes um and you feel the weight though Jesse I did an effort in Centennial Park so what does the TCR do well well it’s stiffness to weight so that feeling of that snappiness feeling when you get out of the saddle like that feeling is somehow basically identical on the on the tll with those wheels so I I didn’t get that classic aerobike sluggishness that people mention that it just doesn’t accelerate as fast it doesn’t feel like it gets up to speed that well that that thing blindfold me out of the saddle on the little uphill section of Centennial Park doing an effort it feels just like the TCR so massive box tick there that it doesn’t feel slow um obviously it’s got way wider tires so it is noticeably more comfortable there’s a section of Centennial Park and you’ll know this Chris Centennial Park is all hot mix super smooth but for some reason there’s about a 30 m stretch which is Chip seal just it’s kind of rough over hard where for some reason they didn’t put the hot mix over and every time you’re doing an effort usually on the TCR I would divert over just into the car Lane where it’s hot mix just for that section slide back over cuz I didn’t want to go over that rough section where you kind of get that low level vibration it is a marked difference I just plow straight over that section now and I’d say it’s about 75 80% smoothed out that section where I can almost I can notice it’s gone slightly rougher but it’s not a big deal at all so like that I can still feel bumps like on the way there if I kind of up a curb down a curb that sort of thing obviously I’m still feeling the big bumps but that lowlevel vibration roughness has really smoothed out is that something you feel on as well oh God wait till you actually leave Centennial Park J yes it’s going to blow your mind um uh just just real quick the the functionality of the group set um y have you any thoughts on that this at this stage I’m not really interested in your brakes I’m interested in your shifting shifting okay front shifting is actually better I don’t know if it’s just tuned better but it is better than it was with the uh 11 speed Shimano front derailer with the old with with the same brand chain ring so I don’t know what’s going on with that front deril big clim it is noticeably better than it was on the TCR with those chain rings so the front shifting is really good like very very very good happy with that the rear shifting is not as is good it works totally fine the down the I don’t know what the right wording of that is the shifts into a harder gear down the cassette are good the shifts going up the cassette are a little clunky mhm they it doesn’t make it doesn’t make noise and it shifts fine but it’s not crispy like you know a dur Ace now keep in mind it’s the L2 rear derailer with the in color Zone cassette with a Shimano 12-speed chain so it’s got three different brands components there and I’ve only done like four rides on it so potentially I there needs to be a little work done on just maybe finding up the indexing because um in the app when you set it up it comes stock with the kind of the the spacing of the shifts as they want it but you can fine tune individually each gear so potentially I could you know sharpen it up a little bit if I spend some time with it overall though like I’m doing efforts in there like I it shifts fine but it is those shifts into an easier gear are a little slightly crunchy yeah that that’s always going to be the challenge that that going back up the block will be will be interesting uh I I’ll be really interested to see whether it it needs constant reindexing or whether it it’s it holds its position exactly so that’s kind of the same thing I have is firstly can I improve it just by getting it dialed in better potentially um and does it hold the position it’s in now uh overall though how how is the shifting it’s good I would say the shifting is good it’s not excellent but i’ you want you wanted good you know and you’ve said it if if if you get good that’s a win yep yep yeah so that’s interesting yep that’s kind of that’s that’s the shifting um the only thing is I I’ll just mention as well I don’t know whether it’s the shape of the shifters of the handlebars but when I first installed them there wasn’t a flat transition between the running off The Handlebar going into the the hood lever I like to have it dead flat it was kind of uh off the handle bar was dipping down a little bit and then it was coming back up on the shifter um so to smooth that out if I had to lift the shifter up the shifters would be pointing too far upwards um so I have I fixed that I’ve just like put a little bit of Handle by tape just in that little gap between the shifter and The Handlebar and that’s flattened it out um but I I I I think it’s potentially combination of just the shape of those integrated handlebars and the shape of the L2 shifter is it does have that slight dip which I don’t like yeah but I’ve I fixed it with a bit of a essentially a bodge couple of other things the saddle so far is pretty comfortable it’s that AliExpress carbon One Fine feels pretty good we’ll need more time thought you said on day one you didn’t like it so this is the thing I bought two so I bought the one that I I put a video up of on on Instagram that’s the one I’ve got on there now which is good it’s 160 G just for a laugh I bought a I bought 115 G one also carbon that was like $55 from the same brand it is absolutely terrible it says it’s weighted up to 120 kilos but because it’s so light you sit on it and then the middle of it just sags down in the middle so it doesn’t actually hold its shape and that was the first ride I did in you know when you in there I’m like can you like and you looked at the oh it looks pretty good I’m like yeah well wait till I put my weight on it it just sags in the middle so that was a total absolute fail um so just be careful with with with that one um the one so I instantly when I got back from that i’ swapped it over to the one I had originally bought um and that one that one so far is is quite good then this question is like how fast is it which has been a bit of a rabbit hole and I’ll just I don’t want to spend too much time in it because I just need to write it more I feel really dirty even doing this after writing it like four times first first look first look I’ve done two efforts on it now the first uh at my power output so what I did was over the last like three months of training when I do my zone for efforts they’re always between about well they have been between about 350 to 360 Wat I got all the average speeds from from all the ones I did um got the average power and the average speed again there there are done on different days different clothing interestingly though the power for all for all of those efforts I’ll bring them up now there were between 40 minutes and 60 Minutes long power for each of them between 348 WTS to 361 Watts so quite a tight band of power and the speed was always within 41.3 km hour to 40 2.2 km an hour and so I’ve got um this is a great database so I’ve got I can I’ll send you the screenshot so you can put up so I’ve got I pulled nine of them that were um you know in that were fair in the right conditions um that sort of thing with the right power average power 357 Watts on the TCR was getting me averaging about 41.7 km an hour um and so that’s kind of you know I always know I was you know it was 41.5 it was you know 41.9 all the same now we went in the first first day I got the bike did an effort you’re in there with me I go I do the effort finish it 30 minutes 359 Watts I’m at uh I’m at 43.5 I’m going [ __ ] this is at the same power it’s like a 1.8k and hour faster than any of my other efforts so I’m instantly going okay that’s just one data point obviously I need to do more of these efforts to average them out but like I’m instantly I’m like sweet it’s it’s it’s a lot faster then I went out today after I’ve had the flu gone back out I did another 20-minute effort keep in mind it is C quite cold here blowing a gale I go out average 41 at the same at 350 Watts or something and I go okay oh that’s not that fast that’s that’s that’s back down sort of bottom end of my TCR efforts um and then I realized for that entire effort the first one I did I had Chris Miller sitting on my wheel and when you have someone sitting on your wheel it improves your aerodynamics lessens the drag so I have a feeling that one of the reasons why that speed was so fast was because you were on my wheel so I got to kind of get rid of that one uh the effort today was very windy so you know maybe that was it wasn’t great conditions even the one that I was sitting on your with that’s why that blew my mind that yeah cuz it was middle of the day I had like a long sleeve regular Jersey on and it yeah and it was like wof that’s why I got home I was like holy [ __ ] this thing’s a rocket uh I actually came away from that experience like terrified I was like holy [ __ ] he just gained a kilometer and a half like what just happened retirement is looming for me now keep in mind I did a rough calculation I thought it would be around 20 watts faster at this speed yeah you and 20 wat saving is about a kilm an hour so I thought a kilm an hour for 20 wats would be quite nice so to go 1.8 kmers an hour faster I was kind of going like this is incredible uh that’s why you don’t give feedback when you’ve ridden the bike for a week um so essentially I don’t know really how fast it is um keeping in mind I’ve the the rear tire is measuring 33.4 mm wide wow and the front tire is is is a 30 mil front tire and it’s measuring 32.3 so and as I said Centennial Mark is basically hot mix so it’s kind of if I can get it faster in those conditions which I’m expecting it should be because it’s an arrow shaped bike I mean the whole the fork the head tube the down tube it’s entirely different from the TCR 36 CM wide bars it should be faster deeper wheels so but essentially I need to do way writing on it to actually kind of start to figure that out right now I don’t actually know how fast it is just on the wheels just super quick I forgot to say this I I asked a lot of the wheel Brands cuz they were they were testing um they were telling me like their wheels compared to the roals blah blah blah blah and the wind tunnels and I asked them are you testing the Chinese ones and in the last three years they’ve started testing them and obviously people in these Brands going to tell me that their wheels are the fastest but the the biggest admission I got was that they’re that they’re getting closer okay yeah that’s I just yeah I just wanted to say that I forgot that very general but okay yeah but it’s interesting like that they are actually testing them because they now actually do see them as competitors okay cool yeah something yeah um okay other little tidbits of feedback I then went to check my tire pressure cuz I thought um obviously it’s quite smooth in there I should probably be running a little bit High tie pressure so I I was pumping them up according to the Silka and the zip tie pressure calculators for my weight at about 60 PSI on my laign pump 60 PSI I also have that psych plus electronic pump thing and then just out of Interest I put that on and it’s saying they’re at 48 PSI and then it starts going so I set the pump to 60 PSI it’s going to pump them up so I I I’m I’m trusting that the psy plus pump is accurate in which case I’ve been running the tires about 10 psi lower at 60 PSI than I thought I had been interesting so I’m going to start now using the sil tire pressure calculator for my width tires and pump them up using the psych plus pump because I’m pretty sure that line pump which is probably 10 years old now that gauge is must be shot cuz it’s not even close like that’s 10 psi at 60 PSI is um a huge percentage difference miles off is that shocking to you I was I was kind of like what but I’ve been using that on my TCR I don’t know what I’ve been doing I’ve been going absolutely blind with my ti pressure and like the rolling sorry sorry just to add it there it’s important because the rolling resistance between 50 psi and 60 PSI is a lot across two tires that like that could be three or four watts per tire that could be all the gains of my arrow bike gone out because my pressure’s been too low well but more than that that I mean potentially years of efforts the actual data is compromised I mean really what you should be doing is continuing to ride with what your line pump says because if you’ve been running 10 psi low for the last 3 years now to suddenly start running the correct PSI you know what I mean so I don’t know it’s going to hard to to compare although I did feel like my pressure was appropriate for the last two years so maybe it’s costing me more now anyway so I’m going with the electronic pump gauge because I need to run it at the appropriate pressure for the surface I’m riding on um but that was also interesting one cuz yeah if I have been riding around with 32 sorry 33 mm tires at 48 PSI God yeah it’s a bit slow so yeah that’s a a wait and see that one oh no good rabbit hole I’m impressed with that well done so uh probably just uh maybe a a notice there if you are kind of going down this tire with RAB hole just make check your pressures against a couple of pumps cuz you might be off like I was look at you talking about tire pressure next next minute you’ll be getting gravel talking about the the different seams of gravel yes um had another sorry a couple of other things just to mention uh the shorter cranks I I again I need more time but initial Impressions were didn’t really it Fel in my efforts I felt quite comfortable so I didn’t like it’s not like I got and went oh I’m riding a different bike it felt good in the efforts it felt really good so I I felt comfortable didn’t really get back pain or anything so um I’m I’m I’m pretty sure that I’m it’s going to be a good solution for me for for that you know when I’m getting low and tucked in it feels nice I did some sprints on one of the session and my Sprint power was still um I wasn’t like I’ve lost 200 Watts it was I was still doing like over, 1400 Watts for my Sprints and that’s pretty you know up I’m usually you know if I’m fresh like I am now and kind of heavy I’ll usually be doing 14500 you on a really good day for for a peak pound I was still doing for over 14400 for a few seconds so I’m still able to Sprint um for whatever that means so yeah the initial thoughts on the the pretty shorter crank length is I am pretty happy with that decision so far but um yeah we’ll see how that one plays out that chain ring looks sick I’m very I’m very jealous of that actually it’s quite nice yes yes I mean like so off the bat I’m very happy with it once I can dial in this tire pressure hopefully get a few more efforts in I’m hope hoping that it is going to get me that um sort of kilometer an hourish faster in those efforts um I I would hope to see that if I don’t see that and it’s let’s say it is a similar speed to what I was doing on the TCR okay it’s definitely more comfortable because of the tie width but I’ll be I’ll be pretty disappointed like if I’m still going out for those efforts and this it’s still 41 is 42k an hour I’m going to have to go back to the drawing board here because that’s um this has been a lot of effort put in not ride any faster at 360 wats so there’s there’s there’s no way yeah I mean there’s no way this is this is slower I mean God love the TCR but it’s it’s not a fast bike in a straight line like it’s just not even the the the seeka spear data that they used the T the my version of the TCR is their test bike and it was an outlier compared to anything aerodynamically yeah so I’ll keep giving that a run okay oh sorry one other thing the wheels those super deep CW Works Wheels because they’re so light I think that’s contributing to the fact that it essentially out of the saddle accelerating going up the little inclines feels pretty similar to the tcrs thanks quite a lot to to those Wheels geez they pick up a cross win though I um if you can only have like one set I would not be buying the 65 75s get the 50 60s they are I I’m heavy and can handle my bike in Crosswinds well and even even you know it’s been pretty windy here but oh that’s pretty um they pick up a crosswind definitely so if if you kind of already got a few sets of wheels and you want like a dead Cal out andout race wheel they’re great but like yeah particularly they are super deep definitely super deep but I I was I was going to ask you whether you’d thought that because of the W and I found this that because of the wider tires I feel more planted when I do get hit so and I get quite affected by by um Crosswinds a lot of the time but I’ve found that the white of the tire almost feels like yeah yeah I I’m more glued to the road and less less bounced around especially like on the back side of you know the back side of the park where you might get hit by a little gust or something like that um yeah okay so I’m interested feel it I just haven’t don’t really have anything to compare it to in in terms of what you’re saying because I’ve never ridden ties this wide but the the cuz the front wheel is 65 mil deep it’s 65 it’s deeper and cuz the Joe did a whole video where he was testing the 50 60s verse I think that was the r vals um and he mentioned a similar thing but he thought it was also because because the rim is so light you’ve got this you you’ve got like nothing holding it down because the rim is so light and it’s deep it just blows around like it is kind of dangerous I wouldn’t really recommend the 65 75s if you live somewhere windy get the shallower ones so I’m actually probably going to it means I’m going to have to figure out something else for a uh a front wheel because if I’m racing if doing he you know if hefron starts up I’m going back and doing hefron it’s a 50k an hour you know nor Easter or something like that’s going to be very difficult to handle so I’m going to have to get a shallower front so the Super Bowl started this week Jesse tour is underway I’m saying it’s best ever best ever best tour ever going to be it’s going to be a tour of the generations we’ve already like you know you got the Cav things happened yonas has shown that he’s on a pretty similar level hopefully to pogy I just think we’re in for one I think there’s a I think there’s a blowup stage where like a a second tier favorite potentially gets a little bit of an advantage and and gets closer to them um I don’t know I’m super pumped have you is there anything specific you want to talk about Cavs running a arrow bottles so I bought Arrow bottles H yeah I thought that was cool yep can I talk about’s S5 on the G A then yeah geez that’s a fish out of water so this this fascinated me right and I went deep conspiracy on it because and I’ve heard this from sell people that on a Mountain Stage yonas will not ride a bike that weighs a gram over 6.8 kilos so unless that mindset has changed which I highly doubt that setup he was writing was 6.8 kilos and okay so it’s not it’s not out of the Realms of possibility given okay so I’m riding a 54 he’s on a he’s on a 52 he’s on the smaller bike so running a one by setup with the old Shram red okay okay so few GRS in that with the the 50 mil Reserve Wheels which is 1,600 G I’m getting to just under 7.5 kilos so to drop the wheels off we can probably go down to those 30s we’re probably going to lose 250 g maybe then um some potentially some lighter tires new shr red with probably saving I think about 200 g in that and we’re around seven but I was really struggling to find the remaining bit and all I could potentially find was the paint now my paint job might be might be a bit heavier than that new one that they’re running which I am told is quite light but still paint difference like is that dramatic so anyway I I was just and oh I should also mention so he’s running a he was running a 52 front chain ring with a a 1036 whereas I have a 50 so potentially tiny bit lighter and okay but yeah so where my conspiracy Chris brain went was oh that’s a new frame um that that was a customade S5 that had shaved off a few grams um which don’t get me wrong I massively massively rate I was was so excited to see him on an S5 one by On That Mountain Stage you have no idea how excited I was to see that in fact you probably do but um yeah and then I I also just want to say that people were saying after the race or that one byy would have held him back on The Descent that’s why pogy pulled away from him like that 5210 there’s no he was not spinning that 5210 out mhm that’s that’s a cons cuz I think POG was on a 5411 from what I gather mhm um so yeah I just wanted to sort of say that but um sorry I’m just the reason why I look maybe look a bit distracted I’m scaring YouTube to see if anyone doing the bike checks have weighed his S5 so no they haven’t cuz they’ve done a video here uh which was by uh bike radar H okay they had his they’ve only had his R5 yeah oh c potentially a new Reserve wheel I thought maybe he’s maybe he’s running a lighweight hub I didn’t see CU I have the 250s he’s probably on the 180s I mean there there is a route to get down to it I I just love the I love the fact that he did um yeah Speed play pedals has probably been in that too yeah think about it um but it’s an interesting comparison when you saw them riding side by side because you’ve got Pacha who’s on uh a glorified climbing bike but with the the Envy 4.5s which I’m pretty sure that’s like a 50 front and a and a slightly deeper rear so a climbing bike with arrow wheels or you know Jonas who’s then on an arrow bike with climbing Wheels um and then you’ve got the so finger guards Tire width those Victoria courses were measuring under 30 mil wide so they were measuring like 29.8 I just saw in the bike radar video whereas poget chars 30 mil wide ties measure 32 so the setups that’s quite a different you know one’s got one byy like those that is if you put it all together two very different setups it’s pretty interesting that you know the different ways to go about it um I would I’m going to keep an eye out to see if someone manages to pick up his S5 to we it CU if that is 6.8 are we going are we going custom layup territory like how because the Math’s not mathing here like it gets close I I mean it does get close I I I can’t really factor in exactly what the what new red is is giving it weight saving wise as well um that’s that’s a slight unknown for me um yeah well it would be I mean it have to be 6.8 like just just no way he’d be riding a s Kilo bike he’s tiny 100% so he’s he’s 100% on a 6.8 Kilo bike no ways no way he’s not doing that I mean I kind of saw it and went o is there is there is there an Avenue for Chris to to to to do that yeah um maybe someone that’s a commenters are always good at that someone let us know someone can do the maths on that I’m sure there’s someone’s had a pick through and configure that one out um just quick Pro Racing can we just give a quick shout out to Young Aussie who won the prologue of the tour of Austria um cam Rogers um wild H has come out of nowhere and yeah snucker snucker win over Philip uh Mr ganner yeah incredible doesn’t really have that many um UCI results yet either so that’s crazy obviously pretty Talent pretty good uh bloodstream there um so sorry I meant like his genetics not [ __ ] it I hate cycling why can’t I actually we’re part of the problem we do talk about he comes from a good lineage of professional cyclists so um it’s something that was always a thing as well domestically a prologue would always throw up some weird results CU there might be someone that was was never particularly good in the bunch and then there’d just be some random prologue and you’re like who like I didn’t know they were that strong so that’s pretty cool that he’s managed to show and like that’ll get noticed for him because he’s still on the their development team like that’s a pretty good you know you one result like that and you obviously you’ve got some wat so that’s good I reckon mad Pon probably had a look at that race and went geez can I get back on that Mone as well or is it just for the development team speaking of track bikes Jesse yes yes M officially launched much to no one’s surprise it did um I keep my receipts I keep my receipts people in the comments um amonda gone madone exists white paper released and I’m not sure yeah we’re going to go through the white paper because it’s a load of junk can I just say right now that’s we’re we’re a little late to the party now because a lot of people have have given their opinions but I want to do it anyway because kind of an interesting one to look at so I want to actually take a step back in time um actually first thing their webinar they did kind of talking through the bike what a production that’s that’s how you do it I mean you know facts and logic aside if you just drank the Kool-Aid and just accepted everything they said you’re buying a mad that is really well done so you got to give take your hat off for that because that takes time and effort so K us for that but I just think this is a big change for the Mone so I did do a little little uh walk down memory lane on on the Mone so if you can please indulge me let’s let’s go back and it’s 2003 and they release uh the Mone as TX do it all that’s their road race bike the two Fran rning bike is the Trek madone it didn’t have anything Arrow about it it was just stiff carbon race bike was after yes it definitely was and it’s still yeah that’s interesting still is uh it wasn’t until 10 years later in 20133 where any mention of aerodynamics came into the design and the marketing around the bike um that that 2013 frame still didn’t look like an arrow bike but it had some of these ctail tubing with the backs cut off uh and it was part of the marketing speak that was that was in 2013 so that was the the first step then two years later in 2015 after having eror slightly the Mone they then released the amond so it’s only 2015 since the amond came into town and that’s where they then went okay we need a climbing specific bike to kind of balance out our now more AO focused Mone and that’s where you got your amonda that was uh had no regard for aerodynamics then the year after the Amanda was introduced so in 2016 that’s where the Mone went full Arrow kind of the silhouette of the bike that you probably used to think thinking now so all deeper tubes and basically went full aob bike because they then had the previous year released their climbing bike which was going to satisfy the people that wanted that since then those two models were developed independently side by side and then it’s not until eight years later that they’ve then combined combined the bikes one of the things that gets me with the combining of these bikes though in saying that the the Mone is going to replace the amonda is that in their webinar you know when they mentioned they said that the Mone was originally designed to rep replace the amonda it wasn’t until according to them they did their testing that they realized that it was going to be Arrow enough that it could actually replace the radone and they say that’s why they released the one bike I think most of us that have followed the TR story for a while know that it is I would say highly likely that that is just marketing Spin and they reason it I would say why they’re doing that is just to keep the level the um the the skus down reduce the amount of stock make it you know potentially simpler for the consumer so that that’s a pretty cool story right if you just believe what they what they say it’s kind of convincing but the problem I have firstly is that the Mone 2024 as it was a bike just before they updated it wasn’t a top level aerob bike aerodynamically it was good but it wasn’t you know the fastest aerob bike which they’ve then been able to make a Do-it all version that’s just as fast because according to tour magazines testing the Trek madone you know the the latest version so that yeah basically the 2024 version before they did made it the Monda was 207 Watts for two magazines testing now keep in mind the canyon Air Road is 202 Watts the system 6 is 203 the S5 is 202 now small difference there but there according to tour magazine the mome was still 5 Watts off that top rung of mainstream brand era bikes and then you’ve got the sub 200 watt bikes which is going to be which is like the simpl on Pride um probably as well as fast as that new dare bike we’ve talked about will be it’s probably going to be 200 sub 200 the van risle new aerrow bike which they which they’re testing that’s it’s also probably going to I would estimate sub 200 so you’ve got a bike that was already not top of the arrow bikes now you could argue that it was more well-rounded perhaps it rode better than a system 6 and and maybe a bit lighter which is you know fair enough to say but just aerodynamically it wasn’t keeping up with them according to tour magazines testing and that’s that’s one of my main problems with this new bike is that they say it’s as light as the current amonda which is okay cool debatable reason why that’s I’m going to go back to the aerodynamics but just on that weight Dave Arthur waved his cuz he went to the Press junk it it was a it was a size medium large with new Shram red bottle cages head unit Mount no pedals so basically the standard way to wear a bike and it was 7.3 in a size medium large that’s heavier than than my China bike so I the saying they’ve said it’s lighter than the amonda look maybe it’s possible to do that but the actual weights that the guys have been testing hasn’t been I mean that’s not a that’s not a light bike that’s that’s you know excuse that I’m hearing a lot of the time is that the Bon Trager wheels are quite heavy but I don’t buy it I mean they are a little bit heavy they’re sort of 1,500 G kind of area but that’s they come with the bike that’s the bike yeah I mean that’s your package so you can’t be selling us a lightweight bike that’s building up to that sort of that level and it’s when I say that it’s 20K for this bike so you know it’s not like you just get the Bontrager wheels and swap them out for something else it’s like hang on anyway sorry yep so it’s fairly decent weight I would not call that a class leading climbing bike weight uh so we can say that um now in their white paper get into the aerodynamics they’ve tested the bike at 200 Watts aerodynamically so they test the new bike with their Arrow bottles keep in mind vers the old Mone with round bottles and then compared to the amond with round bottles at 200 watts and they’re like oh well it’s kind of similar speed same speed as the old Mone yeah with aerob bottles and at an IR relevant speed because who cares about aerodynamics 200 Watts oh and it’s faster than the am well I’m calling the old am was was lighter so okay it’s it’s it’s it’s faster than a climbing bike okay fair enough um I think they are really doing a big that’s not the industry standard way of testing your your frame aerodynamically uh your bike sorry aerodynamically you know you you you you got to do that’s way off what the Seeker spear did we which we talked about they tested at 40K an hour across a range of your angles fair enough you know to test you can’t you can’t have your cake and eat it too with this chat as well because you can’t on the one hand tell us that this is this is the choice of the pros this is designed by we asked the pros what they want and this is the bike that they wanted a professional cycling elite elite elite and then do your testing at 200 watts and say oh but it’s it’s better to test at 200 WS because it’s a more real world speed the everyday ride up and you’re like well hang on second ago you’re telling me mads wants this and now you’re testing it for freaking Chris Miller on an endurance ride like what’s going on so this is this is another bit of [ __ ] no it’s I I would I’m very curious to see when Tura magazine get their hands on it to test it I would be very curious I think if it’s with if T magazine test it and it’s within I re it will be 5 wat slower than the alone because it this will bomb yeah this will bomb out I mean all the pretend weight saving or the AO savings that theyve uh claiming are the package are the are the the the rider package we’ve made the bars more ergonomic to get into a more Arrow position we’ve got Arrow bottles on there like it’s it’s all this is going to bomb in their testing yeah well that’s yeah let’s I yeah I I’d be very surprised if if it’s if it’s within if it’s within five wats of the alone they’ve done bloody well cuz yeah but let’s let’s let’s see when that comes out um so I kind of you and you’ve nailed it there you know it’s a bike built for the world tour tested at CG grade speeds it doesn’t make sense why have they done that because they probably knew if they tested at actual Race speed it wouldn’t have been the same speed and then so it’s just spin if they had release this as an update to the amonda wait issue aside you’d probably go fair enough it’s a more basically like TCR more Arrow version of the the you know the climbing bike problem is it’s not as light as the TCR so I think potentially would have stitched themselves up there anyway but just to give them the benefit of it out um other thing as well they go like well you know this is just as fast as a medone so we don’t need an aerrow bike anymore that’s such utter [ __ ] because if you went to the the engineers the product designers and said his 500 G system weight can you make this bike faster you’re telling me they could do that like that’s is that that would that’s I almost kind of find that embarrassing and also embarrassing that the bike that you only released two years ago the full ARA bike is apparently the same speed like what a slap into the face of your engineers that just designed the bike you only recently released that basically a glorified climbing bike is the same speed if you believe what they say so none of it makes any sense um I would like to see them if it was you know what what what I like have them to done release this as the new am happy days maybe it’s a bit heavy okay you can kind of live with that and then just do the Mone properly and improve it and get it down to that kind of 200 watt Mark in into a Magazine’s you know standard of testing and have the extra model and you would have been happy but don’t sell us this this does both excellently when it doesn’t really do either and it yeah total fail total absolute fail I I and just the white paper was yeah an absolute work of fiction so the bike that just I I actually have another note here the bike that Dave Arthur weighed weighed 7.34 on their website they say it weighs 7 kilos there’s pretty big difference I don’t know how they come up with where’s 340 gram difference between what he weighed at and what they said it was it’s also a little that’s misleading and that bike cost you know $133,500 to to weigh you know 7.34 kilos no pedals like that’s something 250 grams of pedals on it that’s 7.6 the weird thing about this bike and it goes against a lot of the marketing stuff that they were saying and it goes against the stuff I was saying earlier on about you know products being designed way into the future there’s something about this bike and this launch that feels rushed that feels like this almost wasn’t part of the plan that potentially specialized forced them into doing a one bike to do it all maybe they’ve seen that SLA cut into their market and they’ve rushed out a solution to try and compete with it because it’s all it’s just totally feels like design it and and then create the narrative afterwards we just need to get this thing out like 2year turnaround that’s on a or on a really iconic new design that was a whoa where did you come from you didn’t let that sit for 18 months really in the market mhm you know put put aside like stock issues especially in Australia like we didn’t see that bike for like four or five months after it was launched and I know the local retailers were still struggling you know many months after it was launched and then to have turned around already and just ditched it it just it just doesn’t seem right feels like something something rushed something’s gone on here that’s not not part of the plan and it shows if you ask me I honestly and I know people think I’m a Tre hater I’m not I’ve said this I actually I like the brand I like the bikes but this is a proper dud like a proper D it does and I know you said like in the market it’s looking to compete with the SL it doesn’t it’s not even close to the SLA the weight’s not close the aerodynamics is not going to be close and in the marketing remember when the sl8 came out and people probably think I’m just like dumping on it cuz it’s a new bike it’s not true at all when the sl8 was released I actually gave them Kudos because they were pretty realistic with all the the figures that they gave out in their testing it was really it was just real well they didn’t look like much spin for this is like the complete opposite and I wish they would just like they would never be honest because it is a bit of a like I think it is a bit of a dud so would be difficult to be honest but they could just say like guys we we you know um you know maybe even say like it’s confusing for the consumers so we’re just going to condense it down to one bike you know don’t say that the pro riders don’t need it and that’s why we’ve done it just say it’s it’s easier for us to keep stock and and we think for a lot of riders just having one bike to you know one bike to pick from that covers more ground is going to be a better riding experience for most Riders can’t argue with it um but this you know that white paper just is I just can’t you know the one of the what they’re out doing is yeah shameful try again try again you bike please what you know what they’ll probably do is like I have a feeling don’t you reckon they’ll release an AR they’ll release an arrow bike no I think they release a fully fledged endurance bike it’s my feeling okay de Mane either de man gets a massive massive reboot like maybe it goes like Aero urany or something they just they just can’t let that de Mane drift because it’s become the real like ugly duckling of the endurance range kind of given what it was like given that Sparticus like Canela rube like frothy bike given what that’s become now I reckon that’s they’ve got to get behind that model quick smart that’s my thinking okay that’s what I’d do if I was Trek but I was watching a map I watching a map was it map deck video where he was talking about and they were saying like well but the amonda is the bestselling model like that’s the one that people buy um especially because it goes down the low lower range of um specs too so I think they’re still keeping the amonda aluminium version uh um but yeah I I I i’ I do find it frustrating that they U but people say that but it’s they’re not giving I we come across as like these sort of Fanboys of Arrow but they’re not giving the arrow bikes enough breath much enough time to sit in the market and for the whole arrow thing to sit with everyone and then that to to kind of be believed and understood and then it and then and then you go and do something like this which is then just whip away the arrow bike well that’s just going to undermine the the honesty of what you’d been telling us for years do you know what I mean so I feel like this sort of revolutionary well what okay somewhat revolutionary stuff like that modone was takes time for people to to understand I I just don’t think they give the consumers enough credit when it comes to this that we’ll get around to it yeah just feels especially as the bigger I’ve said this before but I’ll just mentioned it again especially as the big one of the biggest brands like I still can’t quite get my head around why they can’t manage to have more range of options why do you have to go to a dare to get a more specialist bike you know and you go to a Big Brand they got you know got two road bikes like what anyway that’s my thoughts all right Jesse I reckon uh I reckon that’s us done um I will see you next week in studio and uh yeah we’ll have plenty of tour chat obviously to come come back with hopefully things kick off this week and um yeah we’ll go from there sounds good see you then all right talk to you soon we’ll see everyone else real soon [Music]
45 Comments
With the crosswinds, don't forget to factor in the frame catching wind as well.
Pseudo Machinist here;
Hambini is correct that the bores (if they are 3D printed) are not going to be perfect circles, as you can’t make a perfect circle with an XY coordinate. In order to create a perfectly round hole, you would need to drill and ream, or turn the hole. (and depending on the depth of the hole/bore, potentially ream it as well)
However I would have to point out that you get to a certain point with increasing levels of precision that you’re simply jerking yourself off. If it’s not going to the moon, just make it fit for purpose.
That DARE aero bike is 🔥
Need to get a nice budget ‘wheeltwooooo’ for my next errand running bike 😂
Some brands give away free product to other manufacturers when they know it’s going to be displayed at a international trade show such as EUROBIKE
Jesse, put a shimano cassette on that Tavelo, and enjoy butter smooth up shifts….
looks like Jonas' S5 last year at the tour came in at 7.1kg with old sram red and 1x, so I could believe with the new red setup it could get to 6.8 or really close. Fully potential for Chris to get the S5 down to 6.8, but it would be a load of new parts lol. Rotors, groupset, wheels, saddle, pedals and seat post.
Chris, I found your comment about Classified interesting when you mentioned the vibe you felt coming from them. I've been saying this for a long time now. Classified is not going to be around at some point. It's a niche product that costs a lot to buy in to and no one knows the durability exactly, plus a few other downsides with cassettes and wheels etc. Probably a good thing they partnered with TRP but I still don't think this company can be profitable enough to sustain it. It cost well over $3000 US to buy before they collaborated with TRP so I imagine now being more of a groupset offering it will be in the realm and up there with Campagnolo's Record electronic groupset. And most people don't want that.
Kudos to ENVE. They released a “2030 product” like 12 years early and no one seemed to notice it. They also somehow have been racing and selling hookless wheels without any sort of issue for… 6 years now? The only thing anyone really has to hate on is the price.
Honestly the most exciting gear is Dji’s new ebike motor, and ZF’s ridiculously small motor.
With abit of tweak you could fit it into a normal shaped road bike and your wouldn’t have the huge ugly bottom bracket
sydney developers and nsw government want more housing
seriously
we are seeing e-bike motors get smaller and more power
does sydney have a proper cycle network interlinked to the rail network
that can handle 40km hour bikes
we need to discuss this and many builders and architects want to
DJI MOTOR AND ZF MOTOR
a TRACK BIKE SINGLE SPEED with a motor – DUDE will be great
1000w MOTOR
GAME CHANGING BUT SYDNEY IS NOT KEEPING UP WITH FUTURE TECH
The irony of lamenting the advanced preparation of the "2030 product line" while the consumer is sold soon to be obsolete stuff, then going on to complain about the trek madone for it allegedly being "rushed too market" has not escaped.
Apparently, manufacturers will be damned by the commentariat regardless? 🤔
Who presses one side and then tries to thread it? 😂 You should thread it first and whilst tightening it, it presses itself in. At least how I do it and it works great. Slap in some NTN bearings and you are good to go.
Preorder price of DARE VA-AFO frameset limited edition in Taiwan is 179000 NTD (~5500USD). For comparison, MSRP of Giant Propel Advanced SL frameset is only 108000 NTD (~3300 USD). TBH, price tag of DARE VA-AFO is pretty bold but it is a good thing that there is no price difference between Taiwan and other markets.
The Scott Addict (Endurance) comes with 32mm Schwalbe Tires.
L-TWOO 蓝图 pronounces (lan tu), it sounds like "line two"
On the Lezyne pump. Even World tour teams have separate pumps marked as not single one of them show same pressure. So if Jesse now changes pump it kinda invalidates the comparsion.
Why should an asian brand charge less? What are u racist Jesse? What makes an asian brand less worthwhile than a western brand?
Bike manufacturers like 28mm tyres to keep the weight down in specs
The aero madone with isoflow cut out looked awesome, but the new slender madone doesn't look good.
I walked into a trek store and couldn't justify $7000 for a bike so walked back out
Re the Dare frameset price…may need to clarify whether the USD 5,500 price is ex-works Taiwan or in US incl. duty/tarrifs. Seems pretty high.
Great talk, love the discussion about Trek and Classified. Good insight into bike industry. 😎
That Dare is something else, might pull the trigger on it
I'm sure part of the saving on Jonans bike is in the Frame Carbon layup
“Nobody cares about aerodynamics at 200 watts…” Oof! That cut deep, Jesse. Deep! 🫣😂
The frankfurt show is like 1/5 the scale of the shanghai bike show
Does anyone know what is the lowest possible gear on this Classified system? Does it go below 0.65?
Jesse didn't comment on the brakes?
Had a 2hr 45 min turbo session.😮💨
Logged onto YouTube.🧐
Seen this 2hr long life saver!🤩
Kudos for the fantastic quality of the remote recording 👍🏻
Latest doesn't necessarily mean its the "best". Just because the marketing teams have us all frothing at the mouth being led down the road with a carrot on a stick for the next 6years, doesn't mean its superior to what we have now. It's all sales and marketing done on all the vain stupid monkeys(us) who believe all their BS. The best riders could ride any bike within reason in the WT and they'd still win regardless. The pendulum swings back and forth from this trend to that. It doesn't matter where the pendulum is at at any one time. All that matters is the pendulum keeps swinging. And that all the sheep say "baaaaa" and keep following.
Jesus is anyone else getting served an ad every 5 minutes? Have you guys changed your Adsense frequency…?
YES its sooo long
Complete bike 4.9k
Frameset without bars 4.6k….
The industry has a pace of change to it and that pace is set by manufacturers but also sometimes by marketing departments drip feeding us and trying to keep our interest. Consumers are able to test far more tire widths and are further ahead with what works best for the average Joe on average roads.
WTH were they thinking doing Eurobike in the middle of the TDF? 😕
The 2 frames from Seka have been available through a dealer in Malaysia for quite a while already…
There is team in Tour of Qinghai race starting tomorrow using Ltwoo on a Look bike…
You cannot 3D print a piano – because there is tension in the system and that is critically important. The same applies to rims and hubs.
So are you recovered from Eurobike – just saw you on Hambini's video:). – https://youtu.be/CQeeYSAuDNk?si=uz_Lh0eQcdKJzwqn&t=106
Bastion did not do any marketing but they charge a bucket load amount. The same 3d printed lug construction you can get from American builders or even Colossi starts to make similar structure structures.
Jesse Caveat
But Jesse, how does it hold its speed?
sorry but Jessie information on the Madonde GEN 7 tour test results needs correction. the Madone was tested with 51 depth wheels it scored 207 watt. Tour did not publish results with deeper 60-65mm wheels. Assuming it would go to 204-205w. 2 w slower than the Cervelo S5. Trek/Specialized/Cannondale all came to same conclusion. watt penalty for aero bike vs all arounder is 5 watts BUT the aero bike is heavier/harsher/more expensive to produce.