After a lifetime on Fleet Street, Kevin O’Sullivan tackles the big stories of the day, champions free speech and leads the war against woke.
son and her favorite two talk to best she loves me more than you’ll ever know Sammy enjoy the night thanks mate samard love to his mom so listen only 30 seconds what you got Kev uh well uh we’ll be looking at the betting Scandal which gets worse by the day forage warning of the invasion of the unknown gangsters uh and the latest from tenie with the missing teen that mystery gets Deeper by the day absolutely yeah the gambling thing the labor candidate today he’s been suspended for gambling and saying I’m not going to win I mean the whole thing’s gone isn’t it Kevo Sullivan here with his Asylum thank you very much indeed for watching the football is on talk sport but you’ll get it all here with Kev we’ll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 and going home because I live there have a great evening sah England [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on dab Plus Us on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is [Music] talk there you are good evening and welcome to the political Asylum right here on talk with me your ever optimistic host Kevin O Sullivan for the next three thrilling hours all the way to 10:00 got another Blockbuster show for you tonight get involved pick up the phone and call me on 03 44499 1000 I just know there are some of you out there who couldn’t care less about the football so for you that’s the number 0344 499 1,000 or for the first hour before the kickoff uh you can call me uh if you are interested in the football that is or send me a WhatsApp voice note to the same number 0344 499 1000 and as long as you keep it clean I promise to play it out here’s what’s coming up in the Suns never mind the ballots leaders event rishy warned that migrants are queuing up in Cal waiting for a starma government apart presumably from the more than a th000 who illegally crossed the channel last week what were they too impatient to wait 03 44499 1,000 meanwhile naju farage warns that hordes of young males we know nothing about are invading Britain from countries full of gangster crime and War do you trust our politicians to keep a check on this 03 44499 1000 plus the latest on the astonishing betting scandal after sunac finally withdrew support for conservative candidates Craig Williams and Laura Saunders it emerged this afternoon that KIA has kicked out Labor’s Central suff wannabe Kevin Craig for placing a flatter on himself to lose can you believe these people 0344 499 1,000 uh meanwhile obviously England are playing Slovenia uh kickoff at 8:00 I’ll bring you pre and postmatch Analysis my prediction just said it to Jeremy Carl Slovenia nil No svenia 2 Southgate nil only joking let’s hope the Three Lions do it let’s hope they played better than they did last time God they were rubbish weren’t they how can you have such a great team playing so badly come on GTH raise your game and raise the team’s game and stay tuned for the latest from tenie where the mystery surrounding missing British team Jay Slater gets Deeper by the hour eight days after he disappeared what the hell happened to this guy we’ll catch up with the Julie in Assange story following his sudden relief from B Marsh prison after effectively running from American Justice for 12 years why did the USA decide to basically let the WikiLeaks founder off the hook and watching horror as NHS staff laugh their heads off about not quite meeting that 4H hour A and E Target giggling as a patient hit the 46-hour waight mark what’s so funny about that 0344 499 1,000 and finally the Space Invaders who landed in Wales did aliens really descend on a Welsh School loads of pupils tell the same scary story and why is less than exciting labor Lackey David Lamy second in top People magazine the tattlers Social Power index the second most socially powerful person in Britain he’s in the list he’s surrounded by billionaires socialites movers shakers famous people even some footballers but David La Lamy second the second most socially influential person in Britain really why is he in that list any ideas 0344 4991 th000 by the way I haven’t got any idea either all that and so much more so don’t go anywhere stick with me right here right now at the home of common sense you are tuned to talk where free speech is the name of the game we are the nation’s favorite news station it’s an instant sensation let’s spend Tuesday night together and uh I’m going to introduce two uh guests right off the bat uh first of all who’s going to stay with me for about 45 minutes he certainly won’t want the England game preview uh that is James Melville proud Scott political and social commentator welcome James hi Kevin I would love to have the problems right now of the England fans yeah but I didn’t figure you’d want to sit around and talk about our chances tonight and except I want you to win I’m a rare Scot you know I’m balanced you see you know I probably followed England more than Scotland in major tournaments because you last a lot longer but it does make me laugh to S the kind of mobious loop of international tournaments with England fans it’s the same every time you do quite well but not well enough you’ll end up losing to decent team on penalties somehow scrap through the groups so right it’s the same pattern every single time mean from a Scottish point of view it’s the same for us home before the postcards every time absolutely and by the way I was rooting for Scotland they were my favorite team in the tournament I love the fans uh several of them are my close friends I love the team I love the passion they play with unfortunately uh it was a great night for the spectators uh the other night uh when they lost uh including the the attackers uh who spent the entire game watching the game rather than get involved it’s not their fault but uh Scotland need to sharpen up at the front if I may say so uh but that isn’t to say I don’t admire them and I thought they had a great tournament so you stay where you are James uh and we’ll introduce Now talks International editor Isabelle Oak shot hi Isabelle hello yeah you’re involved in football talk again so we’re going to park that now uh and first of all let me get your com I want to ask you about some of the events that unfolded in last night’s never mind the ballots uh debate leaders event right here at talk Tower just not more than about 20 yards from where I’m sitting now uh but before we get there you know the betting Scandal Beggars belief uh rishy sunak oh I’m so Furious yeah well what are you going to do about it he finally suspended uh those two candidates who are accused of betting uh they are of course Craig Williams his personal parliamentary secretary and Laura Saunders the uh candidate for Bristol Northwest they’re now suspend from the Tories uh but uh what has emerged this afternoon again defies belief it is that the labor candidate for Central suffk by the name of Kevin Craig uh has just been kicked out by KIA uh for betting on himself to lose I mean these people can you believe them so let me here and now deliver a warning which is that I suspect that this is much more widespread and that very soon soon there will be candidates from all parties and all sorts of other politicos dragged into the net and I was saying before on talk to Jeremy Kyle that ever since I became a political journalist many many years ago based in in the heart of Westminster um 15 years ago I became aware that political betting was a was a real kind of common sport in the corridors of power um and certainly political journalists did it and I’m sure still do do it um they wouldn’t necessarily have information that led to a dead search for a bet but you’ve got enough information you know to make a pretty educated guess on certain things now some would say in defense of that well that’s how it is when you bet on horses you know so much of the racing industry they know exactly what’s going to happen or what’s likely to happen I mean none of these things are ever totally bolted on a horse can have a bad day or a leg or whatever um but in a sense all betting markets work on the basis of some of those taking part having some kind of information or or Ed ability to make an educated and calculated guess and politics is no different so I think this is probably more nuanced than it seems in a way to voters because voters just think it’s just downright corrupt um most of those who’ve taken part in bets won’t know for sure what the outcome would be betting on yourself to lose is a bit different though because you actually have it in your power to make yourself lose I I’ve just got this image of this guy Kevin Craig going around his constituency knocking on doors and saying don’t vote for me I’m useless vote for the other guy I’ll put a thousand quid on that you know well exactly and this is why his statement is a bit ridiculous really because he says in his in his sort of apology and it’s very groveling that he didn’t really have any inside information but but my friend you are the candidate so you know betting on yourself to lose is entirely within your your power you can definitely make yourself lose you may not be able to make yourself win but almost anyone can make their themselves lose a contest like that the other thing that I pointed out on Jeremy’s show and some of our listeners may have heard was that the amounts involved will be small um again I know from my own experience I haven’t done any political betting for years but years ago when I tried doing it you can’t actually put big political bets on in this country we’re really genuinely talking a flutter here these are small markets so no one is making running off with a Kings Ransom on this it is all about perception at the most sensitive times which is in a a general election campaign and I think Kevin Craig’s in the clear I quite agree with that that’s just uh him having a hunch that he’s going to lose and uh that’s kind of within the bounds of the law uh the question surrounding these bets on the July the 4th election date now if any of these people you might assume that perhaps uh the prime minister’s personal parliamentary private secretary might have some info uh that the public don’t have you might assume that also uh Laura Saunders the candidate for Bristol West uh might Northwest might have some more information than most people because her husband uh is the chief strategist Tony Lee for the Tory party and so on and so forth so the definition under the gambling act which interestingly is quite a recent Act is that if you have information that is not available to the general public and you use that to make winnings uh usually of more than2 200 uh you could be deemed to have broken the law uh so uh the fact that the spotlight is on all of these bets that were made surrounding she’s election date I don’t think does mean that many of these people will be off the hook because the police and the gambling commission will feel it incumbered upon them to look at them very very closely and not to leave a stone unturned so I don’t think we’ve heard the last of that but uh interesting times may we live in interesting times uh Isabelle uh let’s go back to uh last night’s never mind the ballot Sun event here at talk Towers uh when Rishi and STI Kama separately uh came under the grilling of the sons political editor Harry Cole uh now obviously one of the main uh subjects at hand was the uh migrant crisis and uh the Prime Minister Rishi sunak announced that he said trust me the migrants because apparently all these migrants in Kell they follow the British political scene very closely and uh they’re apparently queuing up waiting for a lady government so I’m assuming Isabelle that the 257 who came across on Sunday and the 882 the record number for this year who came across last Thursday I’m assuming that they’re just very impatient people who just refus to wait for the labor government uh I mean he’s talking out of his backside again isn’t he they’re not waiting for a labor government they’re just coming over because there’s nothing to stop them well they are demonstrably coming over and we’ve seen today Nigel farage out on the channel actually witnessing the way this happens and he’s been exposing this for a very very long time now I am prepared to believe that there are quite a few migrants actually in Cal who are waiting for a labor government and I’ll tell you why I think that that’s true and by the way I’m not saying that that gets richy off the hook far from it um I think that that could well be true for two reasons number one because these um these migrants or economic opportunists as most of them in my opinion are are not fleeing war and Terror generally and are pretty well informed and they are well they’re taking a calculation by by making this route in the first place they are taking a calculation based on what they know about their odds of being turned back which are zero their odds of being looked after on arrival and given benefits and nice housing which are basically 100% and they are aided and ab bettered by all sorts of agencies and Charities and those agencies and Charities are doubtless telling them look you know you might you might just wait a week if you’re worried about Rwanda and the word may well have got around even though you and I and most of our listeners regard Rwanda as a complete red herring and it’s never going to happen there may be migrants who are worried about Rwanda one word has got around Rwanda in that case the Charities and all their do Gooding volunteers and by the way there are a lot of them I’ve sent a reporter down to those camps volunteer volunteering uh to see what it was like and there’s plenty of young people helping these migrants they’ll just say well look just hang around another week you know many of these migrants have been in those camps for quite a long time waiting for the optimal moment to come over or waiting for their you know their um criminal gang saviors to say now’s your time so I do think it’s credible but I don’t think it gets richy sunak off the hook his government has had all the Time in the World to sort this out it certainly doesn’t now uh it’s the election so we have to be very very balanced it’s not in my nature but let’s do it uh this is uh rishy sunak uh talking last night in the leaders event uh at the sun’s HQ and our HQ here in London take it away rishy if I’m not your prime minister you’re all going to be paying thousands of pounds to upgrade your home switch out your boiler change your car cuz Karm was going to reverse all the changes I made so we get to Net Zero in a sensible way those illegal migrants will not be on planes to Rwanda they will be out on our streets putting pressure on public services and by the way I can tell you now they are queuing up in Cal waiting for a starma government so they can come here and stay here that is the choice 800 uh and there we are Isabelle and James this is K starma responding to that the number of people being returned to where they come came from has dropped off by 44% under this government so on the first few days in government I’ll tell you what I’ll do I’ll put the staff back in the returns unit I’ll make sure that we’ve got planes going off not to Rwanda because that’s expensive that’s an expensive gimmick they will go back to the countries where people come from that’s what used to happen where where they I mean it’s so hard to do well at the mo at the moment even people coming from from countries like Bangladesh are not being removed because they’re not being processed people know that if they get here they’re basically here for life well that’s why because they’re not being processed there no hear me out har this is really important tens of thousands of people are here not processed they’re here for life that’s not a deterrent if it was a deterrent the numbers wouldn’t be going up they’re going up uh well to be honest with you Isabelle neither of them are putting forward Cent coherent arguments are they KY St is unbelievable though oh just going to send them back send them back there in lies the problem K I don’t know if you’ve been noticing it over the last six years but it isn’t that easy to just send people back particularly to France well especially not if they deliberately destroy their documents which they do we know that you know we’ve actually seen it happening I am so bored and tired of the pair of them on this issue I’m bored of richy sunak harping on about Rwanda when the whole nation knows it’s never going to happen and it’s never going to happen on a scale that would make it a deterrent so we can park that one I’m also bored as I know you are Kevin too because it triggers you as much as it triggers me of hearing kir stama and he was doing it again today talking about smashing the vile gangs I don’t know how many times I’ve heard him say this I appreciate that not everybody follows these repetitive mantras as much as you and I do but even voters have surely heard it far too many times you’re not going to solve this problem by Smashing the vile gangs it’s as if you might as well say well we’re going to stop the drug problem in the world by Smashing the vile gangs how’s that worked out drugs are still Rife all over the world because authorities cannot smash vile gangs so it’s not going to fix the problem neither of them have got a solution and voters are entitled to be incredibly Fed Up about this and that’s putting it politely couldn’t agree more just to repeat my position on this he said it again yesterday he says it every day if we don’t smash the gangs we can’t solve the migrant crisis wrong wrong wrong you have to stop the migrants if you stop the migrants there won’t be any gangs because they’ve got no one to transport if you don’t stop the migrants The Gangs will continue you can arrest one gang whacka mole another gang will crop up so when K starma says that it’s an utter lie it’s not true uh but that isn’t to say that rishy sunak has any Solutions whatsoever and he stands condemned by his appalling record on the migrant crisis uh stay where you are more of this when we come back I’m with uh political and social commentator James Melville we’ll get him involved after the break and of course talks International editor Isabelle oakshaw I’m Kevin O Sullivan stay where you are [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] the fact that you may all love the hot weather some of the pets that we have actually don’t people leaving their doging a car something like that even though they know they’re not supposed to do it they think oh I can just do it for 5 minutes you can’t just do it for 5 minutes can you absolutely not and you shouldn’t be taking the dog out anyway they are much safer to be left at home um where the environment is going to be much much safer for them anyone does see a dog that is in a car they must call 999 it is an emergency and you know it is your legal responsibility as I said earlier yeah even things as simple as again you would think people would know it but but a conservatory which gets very hot or a shed that gets very hot I mean you know just don’t do it right the amount of people that still walk their dogs during you know very very hot hours is absolutely wild to me um and there’s just no need to do that your dog is not going to die if you don’t take them for a walk uh during a very hot period whereas your dog is is likely to die or or will certainly become extremely unwell if you do take them out despite the fact that you may all across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is t uh breaking news here four men have been arrested on suspicion of aggravated T pass at the prime minister’s home in his constituency in Kirby sington in Yorkshire uh so we not sure what’s going on there but we’ll try and keep you a breast of developments the Prime Minister uh clearly was not in Residence at the time uh so uh yeah more of that later I’m still with uh Talk international editor Isabelle oaka and of course with James meville political and social commentator go to you in a minute Isabelle let me ask you uh James what you think about Nigel farage’s intervention in the migrant crisis debate the ongoing migrant crisis debate uh he’s saying that one of the more more worrying aspects of all of this is what he calls uh the and I quote invasion of young men from countries with terrorism gang culture and War zones so what he’s essentially saying is most of these migrants that come across the channel That arrive here illegally Are Young males in other words the implication being their economic migrants uh not fleeing anywhere but they come here inculcated with a culture of terrorism of gang culture of crime uh of dangerous countries we don’t know anything about them and they bring their own culture into this country and I think the issue of not knowing who it is that’s getting into this country via the migrant crisis is what worries a lot of people yeah I think people are worried and I think one of the worrying things about the debate is it’s become very divisive so somewhere in the middle there needs to be a Nuance conversation about all the things that are going on on this issue largely because success of governments have been a sleep at the wheel but because governments have failed on this it has become divisive and therefore you’ve got different extremes so if anyone raises this topic now they’re accused of being a xenophobe or racist or a bigot but fundamentally communities are concerned about the numbers that are coming in I think it’s 1.9 million net migration over the last three years on sunak watch so I think it’s a bit Rich when he’s projecting back onto starmer I’ve got no confidence in stara solving the problem it’s a bit Rich sunak saying the problem will get worse with starma considering he’s a major part of the problem and this is the problem with the government and the opposition because they’re not coming up with Solutions so therefore it’s the problem and the public are sick of it it’s not just immigration it’s on health care it’s on crime it’s on education you pick an issue and all we’re getting is our politicians on both sides of the debate not solving the problem they’re saying things like for instance the government have said previous things like Northern Powerhouse of su saying fix migration starm is saying the same thing but nothing gets solved and when nothing gets solved that’s when division happens and that’s when public start getting annoyed and I think one of the reasons for Raj is having quite a bit of traction in this campaign there’s a number of things he’s obviously a very good campaigner it’s because there is a giant big vacuum in British politics that needs to be filled in terms of understanding and addressing the shared concerns of millions of people I’m a firm believer that the vast majority of people in this country want the same things on a number of different issues and are concerned about the same things a number of different issues but they’re not being listened to by our main two parties and farage is clearly exploiting that but he is also connecting with people and that’s quite often people who had previously never even consider voting for Nigel farage and I think that you know this is this is a start of something that may well last be long beyond the election whereby the public are beginning in huge numbers to go from apathy to anger on a number of issues and immigration is a perfect example of that uh yeah uh absolutely uh James now before we bring Isabelle in let’s listen to Nigel farage warning of this what he called an invasion uh it was at a meeting in Kent I warned that huge numbers would come I even said there might be an invasion which of course is the rudest word you could possibly use in BBC land but now 4,000 boats and 128,000 people later it does look like it’s been an invasion to me and it’s mostly young men it’s 91% men who are coming from countries that are known to have terrorism coming from countries with gang culture coming from war zones in which many of them have been directly engaged and brutalized uh well Isabelle he now reformers we know are rising and rising in the polls uh a lot of people feel there might be something going on I think one of the big factors uh in the uh improved condition of the Reform Party is this that as we heard then Nigel farage saying oh you’re not allowed to say the word Invasion the BBC says you can’t do this as uh James was just saying uh people all around around the country thinking I’m worried about the migrant crisis but if I speak up about it all the Great and the good will call me a racist uh and it is cutting through that uh and uh talking human speaking human that I think is fairing the reform UK candidates rather well uh there’s this division between what the Westminster bubble boys and girls and what the BBC think is allowable in polite society and what people actually want to talk about which is this invasion of thousands and thousands of young men coming across our channel in illegal boats they want this stopped and uh the Westminster bubble boys and girls and the BBC and a lot of the candidates just say well if you say that you’re a racist people are sick of this they absolutely are and this is why one of the M many reasons why Nigel farage is having a bit of a moment he does say it as as it is and as he sees it and he is prepared to take the brick bats almost literally that follow speaking out on these issues in a very controversial way now to ordinary voters they’re bewildered I would imagine that anyone could dispute that the arrival of 50,000 people in small boats who we’ve got no idea who they are or where they’ve come from is tantamount to an invasion but of course the lobes at Westminster and in the media and the liberal Elite don’t like that kind of language and they start talking about it being divisive and so on farage doesn’t care about any of that and sometimes that gets in him into trouble um and this is behind why he got into quite a bit of trouble in recent days over his perceived sort of apology for Putin you know Finding excuses for the in invasion of Ukraine farage will just double down he doesn’t care if everybody speaks about him being pro Putin or this or that he knows in his heart he’s not pro Putin and he just he just will go for it like that and sometimes that actually does do a bit of damage I think but he just would defend it to the hilt and he says I’d rather just say it as it is say it how I see it and people can either like it or not but at least I’m not being an archetypal classic flaming politician only saying things they think people want to hear well I’m going to let you go in a minute but I want to ask you uh this question which pertains to uh farage and his views on uh Putin and the invasion of Ukraine I mean it’s an opinion it’s an opinion and it’s it’s a I’ve got some sympathy with it myself you can certainly construct an argument that a form of Western aggression in terms of uh what you might call Nato expansion the placing of more and more missile sites nearer and nearer Russia you can construct an argument that that made Putin feel threatened and that’s why he did what he did you might want to disagree with that but the way uh farage was greeted when he said that was if as if he said uh let’s decimate every second baby or something I mean why can’t he say why can’t he Express his opinion and this is what I regret so much about so much of our political debate that it’s just so black and white everything’s so binary you know when you actually listened to what farage said he very emphatically didn’t say oh Putin’s a great guy and I think it was fine for him to EV invade Ukraine he categorically did not say that he has condemned the invasion of Ukraine he doesn’t think Putin some kind of hero he has previously spoken about strong leadership and that’s a separate thing it doesn’t mean you think the guy’s a great guy but then Q everybody shrieking about him being a Putin apologist and I do think that the more the establishment reacts like this and we’ve seen it in America over the treatment of Donald Trump the more that galvanizes people who just see voters just see a ludicrous overplaying of the hand on the part of the establishment and it simply makes them more determined than ever to go out and vote the way they were planning to great talk to you Isabelle thank you so much we’ll talk to you tomorrow that’s Isabelle Oak shot talks International editor when we come back I will talk exclusively to James Melville so that next I’m Kevin oov and this is the political Asylum stay tuned to talk [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is tor uh welcome back I’m still with political and social commentator James Melville uh James stay where we are because we’re going to have a little listen to and a watch of rishy soon at last night in the sun’s debate talking about his uh Fury over the betting Scandal here he goes okay uh well we were hoping to have that ready uh but we’ll get it ready as soon as as we can uh but uh while we prepare that uh s or that footage of the Prime Minister your thoughts uh rishie finally withdrew support for Craig Williams and Laura Saunders the two candidates uh today I mean withdrawing support I assume that means they’re no longer official Tory candidates uh for Craig Williams’s constituency and Laura Saunders uh who’s the respective candidate in Bristol Northwest so I presume they’re off the books now but the question about them in particular and maybe anybody on the Tory Party Staff is it why has it taken rishy sunak best part of two weeks to act I mean he knew about rishy s uh Craig Williams just before his debate with uh soon with starmer up in Grimsby which is about sort of 12 days ago uh why why only now is he issuing some kind of order well you mean the T parties election campaign is always giving off the impression this is a joke giving off the impression that they want to get under 100 seats because they’ve all put a bet on it but the the issue with sunak and this government is that this is just another example of many examples of in incompetence doing nothing about it a hint of SAS and Corruption and when the public read about this story it’s not jaw dropping and it’s not beyond the imagination because we’ve seen stories a bit like this for a very very long time you know you go back to you know this expensive issues it’s a you know party gate um and Rishi sunak has been the prime minister of the cost of living crisis of which he was front and center and contributed a lot of the aspects why we’re in a costal living crisis so on every different level the public have given up the T so it’s now become a bit of a spectator sport it’s one sort of whiff of incompetence and one embarrassing story after another the only thing left is about how many seats they’re actually going to get in the election because they’re going to lose but it’s by how much deservedly so and so this would probably have more importance if it looked like they were going to win it looked like was going to be a hung Parliament but as far as the Tores are concerned they’re gone they’re a busted flush it feels it feels to it feels to me often uh James like intruding on private grief uh we have to do our job we have to carry on reporting it so this finally is rishy sunak in the sun debate last night laying out his Fury well I was incredibly angry incredibly angry when I learned about the allegations as everybody would be when they would hear about something like that now sup why haven’t you suspend just to explain so the gambling commission who are investigating these as well as the police obviously independent of me of government I don’t have access to the details of their investigation they don’t report to me but what I can tell you is in parallel we have been conducting internal inquiries of our own into the situation and won’t hesitate to act information or findings come to light that can’t take too long you just ask everyone in the room if they put a bet on when they found out about the election you you were there you must know you must have know who you told that’s the obvious thing isn’t it James uh you know uh you don’t need to wait for the gambling commission you call in these candidates you call in Tory staff I’m the Prime Minister did you put a bet on the election date or not if the answer is yes you’re out of here end of that that is not an excuse taking two weeks to act on Craig Williams uh is I would suggest unforgivable but uh here’s Craig Williams making his statement on his involvement in the betting Scandal he has admitted he made that bet he put 100 quid on 1500 and he said right at the outset I’m under investigation by the gambling commission but here he is I just want a quick message to the constituents of w gisher in Lindor I remain on the ballot paper on the fourth of July and I hope to secure your support after years of delivery I committed an error of judgment not an offense and I want to reiterate my apology directly to you I’m fully cooperating with routine inquiries for the gambl commission and I intend to clear my next yeah well uh let me tell you James him saying that was not an offense that’s a moot point uh the definition of whether or not you’ve made a crooked bet an illegal gamble is whether or not you had inside information that was not available to the Gen general public I would suggest that the prime minister’s private parliamentary secretary might well have been in on July the 4th if he then placed this bet he said he placed the bet but if he placed the bet you using that information his contention that he did not commit offense uh is open to debate yeah I mean I think it’s it’s all about Optics Kevin yeah you know I mean how far the story goes in terms of what information was known prior to the bed in a weird way is almost irrelevant now as far as the public are concerned because the story has developed they haven’t been completely transparent as they are right now which is classic sunak you know he could have gotten top of this issue you could have been forthright about it but again it’s just too late on so many different issues you know he’s talking about immigration he’s talking about NHS talking about education he’s talking about farming saying he’s going to do better he’s going to solve the problems no one’s listening anymore because he was the man in the arena he was the top of government and on time and time again nothing was solved the situations got worse and so many different issues this is like a microcosm of that this is like sunx Premiership in a nutshell another problem happens sunx response is kind of in some ways to muddy the waters doesn’t get on top of the issue story gets worse and meanwhile everyone else is going you know what I just can’t be bothered with them anymore yeah I think that’s I think that’s exactly it the opposition party are not deserving of a super majority yeah they’re walsing into number 10 laughing their heads off they’re only getting in because of two aspects this government needs to go combined with the potential reform T split and Lords of seats and that’s why labor are going to get this majority and one other Factor James uh there’s a a counterintuitive irony in the fact that labor could be on for this unprecedented super majority uh that is that they could get an unprecedented super majority with an unprecedentedly low vote uh there’s every chance that the majority of people able to vote in this country won’t bother and that is down to this kind of Scandal the betting Scandal party gate people are sick to death of the political class and if we can improve that after the election then we would have made a stride forward but I’m not betting on that if you know what I mean yeah I mean this people are given up there’s a lack of trust and so people think okay labor are going to go into their cycle of power but the below people the general perception is it’s not going to make any difference you I’ve said this many times before cheeks the same backside it’s not just about you know the individuals at the top of the parties it’s just people have lost faith in the political process at all levels not just National but also local as well now that is a disturbing State of Affairs it’s something that barage is exploiting to a degree but that’s still not enough we’ve got to get to a point whereby you do have effective politicians who are there for the right reasons who are public servants who don’t just come up with peace me rhetoric and sound bites they come up with detailed policies that are genuinely going to help the country moving in the right direction you know for instance a little snapshot of that today I drove through dunde I’m up in Scotland at the moment Dundee has been hollowed out like many towns and cities the city center is like dust Land The High Street is rotting and that is a encapsulation of local government and national government neglect so you’ve got the neglect the lack of effective policies and then you’ve got the siles and stuff like this betting Scandal you put all that together and is it any wonder that the public had given up but the consequence of that is it becomes dangerous because we end up having governments who are in for the wrong reasons and that effectively is going to happen for labor yeah sadly the winner at the moment and will be on Election Day trust me is apathy uh and that’s the fault of the body politic I totally agree with you great to talk to you James let’s do it again soon uh James Melville their political and social commentator when we come back Tom Clayton from talk sport we need to predict England’s victory don’t we uh they’re kicking off against Slovenia in about 10 12 minutes so uh Tom next on England’s prospects I’m Kevin O Sullivan you’re with talk stay tuned [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] despite the fact that you may all love the hot weather some of the pets that we have actually don’t people leaving their dog in a car or something like that even though they know they’re not supposed to do it they think oh I can just do it for five minutes you can’t just do it for five minutes can you absolutely not and you shouldn’t be taking the dog out anyway they are much safer to be left at home um where the environment is going to be much much safer for them anyone does see a dog that is in a car they must call 999 it is an emergency and you know it is your legal responsibility as I said earlier yeah even things as simple as again you would think people would know it but but a conservatory which gets very hot or a shed that gets very hot I mean you know just don’t do it right the amount of people that still walk their dogs during you know very very hot hours is absolutely wild to me um and there’s just no need to do that your dog is not going to die if you don’t take them for a walk uh during a very hot period whereas your dog is is likely to die or or will certainly become extremely unwell if you do take them out fite the fact that you may all across the UK On Da Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is tor so it’s football coming home or the England team Coming Home Group C really exciting group that’s England Denmark Slovenia and Serbia we’re the only team in that group of four who’s actually won a game wow wow wow edge of your seat stuff uh can they do any better the Three Lions than they did against uh Denmark well can they do any worse is more of the question let’s talk to talk sports excellent Tom Clayton hi Tom evening Kev how we doing uh all right just for the kickoff uh your predictions for tonight will Gareth Southgate have told them to raise their game and get out of the starting Gates quicker than they did last time because basically they dropped the ball for the whole game against Denmark uh they can’t do that again can they no absolutely not and even this week going into the match and we’ve been hearing all of the press conferences and all of the conversations from Harry Kane and everyone like that and they basic been saying look we’ve had meeting after meeting among the team we know we need to sort this out we know this is an issue and I think this isn’t so much a g Southgate thing as well I think it is a whole thing team I think a few of them have been caught out a little bit by the tournament in general Harry Kane’s been really poor um I don’t think the team has particularly good chemistry which it has done in the past but then the AL the thing to remember is as well you know in the last couple of tournaments England have kind of come out of the blocks with a bit of a stutter but they’ve stuttered to a win then they’ve had a pretty ranted draw in the second group stage game and they’ve won the third game comfortably and gone on to go quite deep in the tournament so is this just particularly poor or is this something that’s actually just genuinely a bit England you know we talk about we talk about Tottenham with the whole spursy thing we talk about Fergy time with Manchester United is just is this just an at Fulham we have an an expression it’s called fulhamish that’s when we sort of L against barnesley 5 nil and then beat man united the next week that’s full of that’s leads we just call that leads it’s just lead United no but you know what I mean but you’re right about England they do they always have uh let’s hope hope it is just this they always have a terrible game towards the beginning let’s hope that was Denmark at least we didn’t lose that any team news uh there’s been a couple of changes I believe yeah the one main change in the starting lineup Conor Gallagher of Chelsea has been brought in to replace Trent Alexander Arnold lots of people before the tournament kind of said they wanted see Trent brought into Midfield he naturally is a right back but his range of passing makes people think that maybe he can work as a midfielder now it’s all well and good when you’re going forward but the problem is when England aren’t going forward you’re you it’s almost like playing with a man down because no disrespect to Trent Alexander Arnold his defending ironically for a Defender is not as good certainly when he’s out of position that against Denmark left Dean rice completely exposed and we saw a pretty ranted display all around I think having two Bonafide midfielders in the Midfield I think makes an awful lot more sense and it wouldn’t surprise me as well to see if things aren’t going their way which would surprise me an awful lot I I think if things aren’t going their way I wouldn’t be surprised to see um kis saake having a bit of an experiment but to be honest at this stage I think you know we’re just seeing the teams walking out onto the pitch I I honestly think that England probably should win this quite comfortably even though I will say that svenia have some very very good players among their ranks you know this is not going to be any push over no exactly uh just before you go I know you want to get uh into your armchair settled in front of the Telly for the game uh some of us do not have that luxury what you makeing this R between Lin sheer and Harry Kane it seems like the England camper saying to the BBC how dare you criticize us it’s not often I’d support Gary liner but he’s saying what was we we supposed to say that England play brilliantly and then Harry Kane and then Harry Kane goes yeah well what did they ever win when they were playing for England oh I’ll tell you what they won Harry about exactly the same number of trophies as you’ve won as in a great big fat zero so pot calling the kettle black there I think yeah I think you’re absolutely right I think uh and you’re right this is one of the very few times we’ll actually defend G lram BBC I I will say it’s defensive Allen Sher as well who normally is actually I think spot on with analysis um but you would say going into this situation you know it was it was almost a bit like well hang on a second why are you criticizing me I’ve done nothing wrong you know this is this is a whole thing and you know they’re just they’re being exactly what they’re meant to do they’re being commentators pundits they’re doing exactly what you’re doing on talk care they’re commenting on the situation holding people to account and calling things out when they need to be called out it’s absolute nonsense from Harry Kane say well I don’t like being criticized if you don’t like being criticized don’t put yourself in the public eye and be the bluming England captain at a major tournament exactly right and uh Gary and Alan were exactly right about England’s performance against uh Denmark Gary liner on his podcast described it as sh I shouldn’t say that word but you know it ends in Te uh and I think that sums up exactly what we all thought about England’s performance against Denmark but as you say often in a tournament we’ve had tournaments that have been won by teams that lost in the qualifying groups so uh well think about it this way Argentina are world champions at the moment having lost their opening game of the World Cup against Saudi Arabia that’s true that is ABS I forgot about that that is absolutely true uh your prediction for the result tonight please Tom um I would go with a comfortable England win um it’s not going to be without some dramas but I think it’s going to be I’m going to say fairly comfortable at either three or four one uh man of the match you think I mean Harry Kane Harry Kane scored one goal but he hasn’t come good yet has he no I think all eyes at the moment on JW Bell and the 20-y old who’s at Real Madrid who by the time he has turned 20 he’s already won the Champions League in the hearts of the entire nation which isn’t bad going for a lad from you know the West Midlands he’s done very well indeed to get himself into his position I I I think he is by far I think he’s by Far and Away England’s best player I think he’s going to be England’s best player going forward and I honestly can’t see anyone really putting a stop to him right Tom you better get in front of your Telly right now and enjoy the game Tom Clayton there from talk sport you’re probably all settling down to watch the game will keep me on in the background e I’ll be S I’ll be there waving hello I’m still here I’m still here seriously we have much still to come when we come back we’ll bring you the latest all of you who don’t like football we got a great show lined up for you uh next up we’re going to tell re to find out the latest news on missing British teen J Slater that mystery gets Deeper by the day eight days and no sign of him what the hell ever happened to him that next and the England game this is the political Asylum stay where you are you’re with talk [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is [Music] talk welcome back the match is underway I can now report that it’s still nil nil England have not conceded a single goal in 120 seconds so it’s looking good folks fo Bulls cominging home or are England coming home uh we’ll wait and see shall we uh in a little while we talking about Julian Aang who uh suddenly was released from B Marsh Jail uh we think this morning it was placed on a jet flew to Bangkok and then onto a remote Pacific island that is part of the USA where we were told I’m not sure what the latest is he was going to plead guilty to a single offense of hacking of spying if you like uh and would be sentenced to exactly the number of uh days that he’s done in British uh in a British prison so I think it worked out about 62 months or something like that uh so he’ll then be free and then he’ll fly on to Australia where he’s a free man so uh at one point America was said which seemed to assume it had jurisdiction all over the world not quite sure why they thought that uh but uh he fought extradition from Britain to America we stood by him just say you got every right to fight this extradition America have caved and just said all right you can plead guilty to one offense uh and then he’s a free man so at one point they were saying put him behind bars for Life he’s a National Disgrace a threat to World security suddenly they go all right you go to Australia enjoy yourself have a nice life strange strange about term by the United States of America we’ll be discussing what all that means later in the show and also we’re taking your calls in half an hour if uh any of you fancy hitting the blower I’m talking I guess to those of you who couldn’t care less about the football and let’s face it there are millions of you out there so you’re my people tonight uh I’ve got the football on in the corner of the studio I mustn’t look at it you know what I’m like I’ll started sort of cheering and doing that so I’ll keep a vague eye on it and let you know any scores that happen uh but yeah taking your calls in half an hour’s time 03444 991,00 or if you are glued to the you could quickly leave me a voicemail note on WhatsApp uh 03444 N9 1000 they’re playing out me saying the phone number on Mike Graham’s Morning Glory show I kept hearing myself this morning going 03449 91,000 I so I got in touch with mik I said am I saying it wrong or something he said no no we just we just thought it sounded funny so if you tune in to breakfast it’s me go3 44499 1,000 so don’t forget to phone 0344 499 1000 uh in half an hour cuz I think I might be struggling for calls and for the last 15 minutes we’ll be joined by the Suns Deputy political editor Ryan sa with a review of last night’s Clash here in talk Towers just down the corridor from where I am where uh K starm and richy sunak came under the Relentless grilling of the sons political editor Harry Cole how did they Fair uh how did they get on who won what really emerged from that event all of that from Ryan sa towards the end of the hour so a packed second 60 sizzling minutes especially if you don’t like football uh but first let’s talk about missing tenor e te Jay Slater it’s eight days now since he disappeared without Trace uh no sign of him uh last phoned a friend uh last Monday morning to say only had a minute left uh Power left in his phone he cut himself on a cactus he was lost feeling dehydrated that’s it no sign of him ever since uh and that is worrying not a single sign the whole of the island is being searched particularly this remote area where his phone was last recorded and so on and so forth meanwhile as is the W with these cases the longer the missing The Disappearance goes on the more the conspiracy theories come in to fill the vacuum of any concrete new information so uh we spoke to her once before but it’s really good to have her back on the show she’s the uh former Chief Constable of North Ambria a woman who knows all about searching because she led the search from Ral Mo you remember that a national uh Obsession that was a very very tense and difficult search and she succeeded so she knows what she’s talking about so a warm welcome to sue Sim thanks for joining us again Sue hello Kevin uh now uh here we are eight days on I can’t remember when we last spoke it was about La last Thursday or something like that uh eight days not a sign uh what do we draw from that what do you make of that I I still do think that um unfortunately the fact of the matter is is that this young man who’d been out for three days at a concert um who has been described as being intoxicated when he left there had gone back for whatever reason and that absolutely is unknown as to why he went from Los christianos to um Masa and as I’ve said before to you masker is extremely remote it is a good 40 minutes plus away from Los christianos absolutely gorgeous place to go and take your tourist photographs awful if you lost in there are lots of chasms there are lots of Abyss there is huge amounts of undergrowth if anybody has fallen over it would take days to recover somebody there yeah I should stress that of course you know that area so uh you’re talking with knowledge of just how remote it is did you see that story I mean sort of I suppose a moment of light relief but they did find a missing British hiker but it wasn’t Jay Slater but you know all joking yourart it does show he’d been missing for two days he was terribly dehydrated the police who found him said he would never have found his way out of the chasm he was in that really is it it shows the difficulty of the terrain I mean I’d like to to say Kevin that you talked about the conspiracies there is lots and lots of conspiracy being um fed on social media I would urge people one don’t read it and two certainly don’t populate if you have anything if you were there if you believe you saw Jace later then call your local police they will pass it on to the appropriate authorities do not put things onto social media and certainly don’t start speculating about what could have happened leave it up to the people who are there leading this investigation they’ve said that they’re keeping all avenues open which means that they are looking at absolutely everything but if they had anything that they needed um you to provide information on believe me police ask for evidence if that’s what they’re looking for yes and the other thing I would add uh you must confirm if I’m uh saying the right kind of thing is nobody should be embarrassed about anything reporting anything at all that they’ve seen uh don’t be embarrassed tell the police exactly what you saw because any information might be of use am I correct absolutely if you think you saw Jace later at any point uh from the the Monday when he was believed to have gone missing then no matter how you know if you think somebody else will have found it in please don’t do that if you believed you saw him phone in and tell your local police they will pass it on to the appropriate authorities any small bit of information could actually lead to the police finding Jay yeah in terms of these conspiracy theories all sorts of nonsense I’m not going to uh uh sort of dignify them with the oxygen of publicity but as an example so there’s this kind of one uh narrative is that the last time he was seeing Jay was last Monday morning near this bus stop and these two lads who apparently he’d spent the night with had said oh you can get a bus there so he walked there and the story is that he phoned his friend Lucy and said I’ve missed the bus I’m no now going to walk back to Los christianos which was an 11-hour walk uh I find that element of the story hard to believe so who who does that I mean wouldn’t you logically say or I’ll tell you what I think I’ll wait for the next bus however uh to go to back to the absurdity of these conspiracy theories there’s a photo of this bus stop and next to it is a white car there’s a fever of speculation what is that white car doing there what is it who is in it we need to find out about the white car can I just say Sue perhaps it’s a white car that was parked there this does happen now and again you see what I’m saying absolutely it’s some poor tourist who was enjoying The View and that is the problem conspiracy theories can really really distract away from um the investigation itself and more importantly and this is something that I would urge people to consider when they are talking about these conspiracy theories is there is a family there waiting for Jay to be found a family who unfortunately and you know the police will be telling them do not look at at social media don’t go uh just wandering around don’t call on so-called experts to come and help you know just rely on us but human nature means they will be reading all of these things it will be really really upsetting to the families and all I can say to those people who are doing this with social media is shame on you if you have real intelligence if you have real information phone the police immediately and pass it on if not leave well alone yeah they seem to be the football absolutely okay like everybody else is apart from you and me uh but S no seriously uh a lot of people aren’t actually I can tell that from my uh notice board here a lot of people are getting in touch and they’re very energized by this story in particular and a lot of these conspiracy theories uh revolve around whatever Jay’s background was and I’m not going to go into that because his background whatever he got up to as a youngster uh in Lancashire or whatever he was getting up to in Los christianos are pretty much irrelevant to the fact he is a missing young man who disappeared eight years a eight years ago that’ be even worse eight days ago uh and uh the uh priority is to find him his history right now uh is not particularly uh relevant is it absolutely not if there was anything about a criminal investigation that involved his past the police would have been making sure that they were actively following any leads in relation to that from what I can see the primary aim of the investigation at the moment is a missing person’s investigation they believe for whatever reason that he wandered off the main path and has got lost and possibly Fallen somewhere in that very very remote area that seems to be their main lead but they have said they are following up on any other in investigation um elements that come to them the fact that a young man had been a young man who has a bit of a past an awful lot of people on ten will have had such I think you’re right about that great days yeah but it’s it doesn’t matter we we’ve got a missing young man we’ve got two distraught parents we’ve got his family and his friends are desperate to find him and so to be fair are the local police uh massive search going on uh no one can deride their efforts even though people are trying to uh I mean the family have said they’re not really being kept in the picture but I don’t doubt I’ve seen the pictures I don’t doubt they’re trying their level best to find this guy guy uh but so if you were in charge of this search uh and you were a local police chief of course eight days what would your thoughts be drifting towards I mean what would you be thinking presumably I don’t want to uh uh talk Darkly of the possibilities here but presumably uh you wouldn’t be too optimistic about your prospects of finding this guy alive no I I think the the Great difficulty is that the heat in tenie during the day and the very very cold nights at this time of year and if he hasn’t got any access to water and has been very dehydrated he could have come become overcome you know fairly quickly I think also you know and it’s one of the things that in in relation to any investigation I do understand where the family is is coming from it’s very very difficult to provide all the information that the family want when um I ran lead investigations I always used to make sure that I actually did have a communication strategy because that that actually is the key thing I leared it from years and years back watching the poor Dum Blain families talking about this issue all those years back lack of communication yeah yeah seems very much as though it’s the case at the moment in tenie not that they’re not doing a good job I am sure they’re doing an excellent job the communication doesn’t seem to be meeting the needs of the family and friends yeah I agree with that they’re they’re quite upset about that but uh I mean you know we’re just watching on television but it does seem that despite as you say this perhaps breakdown in Communications uh that the Spanish police there are trying very hard to find this guy and they would because if they find him it it reflects well on them uh they they’re not enjoying not being able to find as much as the family uh is not enjoying it to say the least uh there was one sighting today and I suppose we’re going to get a few of these uh somebody said they thought they saw Jay Slater on the island at a different Resort watching the football uh that one seemed a bit unlikely to me probably yes I mean there there has been as you’re aware a number of um sort of CCTV images that um the family are saying this is this is Jay um unfortunately he he was you know by all by all accounts from the the photographs a good good looking young man there are thousands of them on the island at at this time it’s it’s very very easy from a a grainy CCT TV picture to to actually and particularly if you want to believe it’s your that’s it is it yeah you want to believe it well listen uh uh Sue uh we’ll keep in touch because uh this search continues a pace and as I said earlier with each passing minute almost uh it becomes more mysterious but great to talk to you with your expertise and perhaps we’ll talk again very soon uh that’s Su Sim she is the former Chief Constable of North Umbria who led the search for ra moot I think it was Back 2010 something like that uh if you remember Gaza Paul gascoin turned up there to help with a fishing rod I seem to remember wondered if R Mo wanted to go fishing uh that didn’t seem to produce any results but susim and her team did find Ral Mo uh and for that we remain very impressed uh anyway when we come back we talk about Julian Assange with uh Philip Ingram about what security threat posed uh what was the nature of his crime why America suddenly crumbled America wanted to put this guy behind bars for the rest of his life in solitary confinement because he’d done so much to do destroy American Security around the world suddenly they go oh yeah forget it you know just copper guilty and you can go off to FR uh to uh Australia for the rest of your life very strange climb down by the Americans so uh we’ll talk to Philip Ingram about that next and don’t forget get your calls in if you’re not watching the football for God’s sake call me 0344 499 1000 if only to have a chat about how left out we’re feeling uh so yeah call us uh 8:30 your calls and I’ve got lots of texts and whatsapps to read out as well so we’re not entirely in a vacuum uh and the score in Cologne is still England nil Slovenia nil stay where you are this is my political Asylum you’re with talk stay tuned [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I I go around giving talks about the NHS to various organizations and one of the things about it is any health care system in the world that works well is a system that is kept well away from politicians and and if either K starmer and west streeting or rishy sunak and whoever he would make his health secretary if any of them think that they are going to reform the NHS forget it it’s not going to happen because within the management of the HS they are absolute Past Masters of diluting and weakening anything that looks like reform and actually Clinging On to the status quo and an awful lot of people watching that documentary last night were shocked to see some of the attitudes of some of the staff you know because we’re led to believe that you know the staff are all angels and the nurses are all brilliant and the doctors are doing their best and they’re tired all the time but nevertheless they’re fighting for everybody’s you know right to to be given free health care at the point of U Need [Music] [Music] I I go across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this this is T welcome back 12 years ago Julian Assan the founder of WikiLeaks a man accused of uh breaking International Secrets uh compromising American Security uh leaking details about the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq Julian Assange uh he uh took refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London uh to escape extradition to America he stayed there for seven years then he went to Marsh jail he’s been in there for the past 5 years suddenly today we learned they’ released him he was on a plane to Bangkok and he was on his way to a uh remote Pacific island that is part of America uh there he would plead guilty uh to a single charge of hacking uh which uh would be sort of written off the books he’d be sentenced to exactly how long he’s done in jail which is 62 months and then be allowed by America to fly off to Australia to live happily ever after at least that’s the theory uh just a strange kind of sudden about turn by um uh by uh the America I wonder what’s going on there let’s uh talk to uh philli Ingram shall we security uh intelligence officer expert uh welcome Phillip hi Kevin uh you and me not watching the football just us no uh but this is fascinating why do you think uh America suddenly relaxed its position America wanted to get aange back to the States and they wanted to bang bang him in jail for the rest of his life preferably in solitary confinement for uh breaking all their secrets about the Afghan and Iraqi Wars uh uh now suddenly we learn that they’ve done a deal they’re prepared to accept a quick guilty plea uh in this remote Pacific island uh and then he can head off to Australia to live happily and Ever After end of the entire Affair why has America changed its position so dramatically so suddenly well I think the American position is one that the Press has spec speculated on you know he hadn’t been prosecuted in the United States he hadn’t been in front of the US court and therefore US court hadn’t made made a decision lots of other people were saying this is what is going to happen to him there was 18 charges brought against him by the United States um he first went to the Ecuadorian Embassy not because the United States were seeking an extradition order for him but because the UK had said he should be extradited to Sweden to stand charges for sexual assault he then decided to go to the Ecuadorian Embassy in London to seek Asylum um and stayed there until the statute of limitations for sexual assault in Sweden ran out um and that’s whenever um he decided to try and take himself out and we got into the point where the American arrest warrants came in um and extradition orders came in from the United States in in 2019 before that he was a convicted hacker he was convicted in 1996 in Australia for hacking he steals data he’s not a journalist um and what America wanted to do um after the data that he stole from them the very sensitive data and released it was see him prosecuted and actually he is now going to be prosecuted in front of a US court he’s going to plead guilty and therefore he’s going to you get Justice I I think they’ve Reed back what they would have probably tried to do because politically you this is a year of an election we’ve got all the um issues going on in the Middle East in uh Ukraine in China and yet another set of um issues going on that would create unnecessary Focus for the US government and globally is unhelpful at this time here’s here would be my position on this of what that’s worth uh is if Julian Assange is or was a journalist uh then I’d be troubled by uh his persecution at the hands of American Justice uh because I think journalists have got the right to reveal whatever it is that they find out uh but you what you’re saying is you don’t believe he is a journalist and the information that he published Wikileaks uh was purely the result of illegal theft yeah well 100% you know he was was never a journalist he was an IT specialist you know he then specialized in hacking because he found his way into Australian and US Government computers he got prosecuted for that in Australia in 96 as I said um and then you continued into US computers and all the rest set up Wikileaks you know if you’re a journalist you um abide by the stories that you produce you you follow the journalist code you look at what’s proportional you look at um what you’re putting out and the effects that that’s going to have you provide some form of editorial oversight into what’s going on and yes he was working with editors and he found some very sensitive information he found some information that from a journalist perspective um who can exploit it it was right and proper that that got into the public domain because it held governments to account but he also published massive volumes of other data that he says he redacted from an intelligence perspective I’ve read a lot of it it’s not redacted I can tell who the sources are and and the trouble is what will have happened to those sources is families will have been tortured individuals will have disappeared individuals would have been killed he is directly responsible for the deaths and torture of a large number of agents that are operating across the world and undermining intelligence processes uh which means that our security um and including our ability to deal with terrorist attacks and all the rest of it have been undermined and there’s you know that you you can’t justify um the means at any cost and there was no understanding of what the over all cost would be he just took what he could and dumped it out there why why do you think he did it I mean uh you know I don’t know Julian Assange I’m sure that you’ve uh probably not had the pleasure of his company either uh but from what I read from what I glean about him he’s a bit of an egocentric person uh is that what this is all about the greater glory of Julian Assange is that why he dramatically released this information so everyone would talk about him well I I think so I think he he got it because you know he could you know and it came from very sensitive computers it’s a you know you find a lot of hackers it’s a great technical challenge to be able to get in and get your get access to sensitive data and to put it out there um and I think because of the nature of some of the data that came out you know the um uh the US uh the video of the US attack helicopter machine gunning um civilians actually that give a flag for um you know a lot of journalists around the world to turn around and say actually you know this is in the public interest and that that story itself was but therefore we’re going to hold Julian Assange up as this flag at the top of the flag pole about um your freedom of the press and everything else but actually when you examine you know his background he seems to be and I don’t know him so I may be getting this wrong but he seems to be a nasty little piece of work you know a a convicted hacker uh someone who whenever um he’s asked to answer to sexual assault assault charges runs away and hides um to do that only comes out whenever the statute of limitations comes in and then tries to avoid extradition um whenever um he’s come out of that in UK and has to be put into a high security prison there and it won’t go off to the United States to stand in front of um a judge and jury where given his profile he’d have had the best legal support that you that money could possibly buy and they would have probably done the deal that he’s got today yeah and a lot of critics over here so who the hell does America think it is having jurisdiction over the entire world hasn’t behaved in that way at all actually it’s perfectly legitimate and uh fairly normal for countries to apply for the extradition of people who they feel have committed crimes against their country so I don’t think America was in the wrong here but generally speaking Phillip do you think with what’s happened over the last 24 hours uh that essentially Julian Assange has got away with it no I don’t think he’s got away with it he’s going to come out with another um conviction under the Espionage Act you that means he will be on special registers in Australia in the United States Canada the UK um and New Zealand and elsewhere across the world it’s going to restrict his travel you know he couldn’t have gone to the United States in the first place because he’s got a a conviction from um uh 1996 um and the Americans are getting their their Justice done hopefully what it’s going to do is take the um the sting out of all of the publicity that’s going around it that actually you know in the same way that we’re getting all of this publicity around the Palestinian marches that are going on is is feeding um you know giving a Feeding Frenzy to those that want to bring this side and blow up to be something that it isn’t philli it’s always a pleasure to talk to you thank you very much for your time really interesting that is Philip Ingram their former British intelligence officer with his take on the junior Aang situation it is interesting isn’t it you know that after all this 12 years as philli said for seven of them uh escaping extradition to Sweden where he was charged with alleged sex offenses which he denied uh that ran out statute of limitation so once that was done he nipped into B Marsh to avoid American extradition uh and now he is probably right now on his way to Australia uh where he can live as a free man so uh I don’t think it’s too bad an outcome consider put it this way there’s every Prospect he may enjoy the next 12 Years a bit more than he did the last 12 years uh we do have some phone calls and we’ve got some messages so next up uh it is your time uh give us a call 0344 499 1000 before we go to break the score is England nil Slovenia nil over in Cologne and uh I’m reliably informed by my soccer reporters Sam the techie that svenia are playing better than us so uh there you go uh that uh your calls next though 03 44499 1,000 look forward to hearing from you I’m Kevin O Sullivan this is my political Asylum England are playing in Cologne and you stay where you are [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is talk uh takeing your calls right now but first I’ll just read out a few messages uh this is from chalky in Market drton he says just listen to England fans booing the Slovenian national anthem can things get any worse well chalky yes they can it’s nil nil uh with only about eight minutes to halime and frankly Slovenia are all over us uh they look like a pretty good outfit they just had a very good chance of scoring so looks like the same old story great players great Squad not performing uh here’s uh chalky again James Melville paints an accurate and worrying picture of the near future can’t wait for the winter uh so uh here’s uh one from we got a name here sha yeah sha is what sapped in saying gold Bennett you don’t hear that often do you Gordon Bennett I just don’t understand why interviews just let starma and sunak waffle and waffle and Waffle thought last night’s session uh would be better uh same old answers as before really only needed to watch the first debate to get those answers they’re right about that these two sunak and St just parrot out the same cliches that they’ve been taught by their spads uh and it’s a bit annoying but I thought the sun did a good job last night it was the most entertaining meing of these events and Harry Cole got them going a bit but uh it’s uh who was it said I think it was um was it Ryan s said it was like watching no it was Tom Slater from spiked online saying it was like watching a debate between a librarian and a bank manager pretty much sums it up uh or was it a bank manager and a Headmaster anyway these professions are really full of interesting people so that’s not fair uh here’s uh Phil he says I’m very concerned about illegal legal immigrants particularly these young men who are already already in local hotels and now being housed in local communities in multiple occupancy housing so far there has been multiple officially reported incidents uh I Dre to think what will happen when these people settle in and establish themselves we have no idea who these people are and what their values are I’m increasingly worried about our community that’s Phil in St Helens uh let’s go to the phones though now I’ve got a lot more messages I will read them out later on uh but first of all let’s talk to uh Neil in Bristol I’ve got a message here Neil saying you’ve lost faith in the football if you’re watching it I’m not surprised you could be right Kevin you could be right how you doing are you’re not watching the football well I’ve got it on in the studio in the corner of my eye and every time I look up uh it blue shirts have got the ball no oh no yeah I kind of um tuned out a little bit really I kind of uh after after qar after I didn’t watch the last World Cup I think I spoke to you about it before really because uh the people that died building the stadium and their human rights records I thought I’m going to not watch this on principle and then the Euros when we lost the Euros at home against Italy um our best chance to win it for ages and how they played the game G South Gate the players Etc and that’s the kind of last drop they got on me we haven’t got a TV license anymore because the BBC I’m not mad on the BBC I just listen to talk TV the newspaper that’s the way to do it Neil that’s the way to do it but yeah as I say this looks to me uh this is another Denmark we’re just underperforming badly uh what should we talk about rather than football I don’t like to talk a bit about football but no I just saying I I think that sort of players kind of freeze it’s the same old story with England there’s two things I think about England it’s this right they’re great players we’ve got some great players and this I know we always say this but this is our best squad for years is uh but they’re uh you know they’re multi-millionaires they all earn 300 Grand a week and although they’re great players they’re used to playing in teams that are full of brilliant foreign players now here they are just a bunch of English players and frankly uh the sum of the parts does not equal the whole they’re just not that good as a team are they no you’re right I I think there’s some wrong it’s hard to explain I mean we’ wor you know like I said I’ve watched the world cup I Was Won actually in’ 66 when we won it but I watched every World Cup at least there was a bit of Hope a bit of that kind of spirit but there’s there’s so like you said there’s so many foreign players and in other players they seem to be played out of position or the tactics of the manager and they freeze when they come to the big games I you know I don’t think we’ll ever win anything again but I mean I was saying to Abby and all that about when Dad played and all that he was professional oh that’s right you play for Bristol didn’t he yeah yeah and remember that the band that equals remember the equals yeah yeah they wrote that song Viva Bobby Jones not him yeah that that was what you used to that’s what you used to sing the equals the equals there was a group yeah and people used to come up to me said God I didn’t realize they wrote that song about your dad no I said it just a coincidence who’s the guy who was in the equals Eddie Grant Eddie Grant there you go uh gonna come back to what was that his song uh take Electric Avenue there you go what man we’re going around the houses here Neil uh listen uh I better move on but really good to talk to you as I say still nil nil and it’s the same story as Denmark I bet you the fans are Furious they’re Furious uh it’s another mediocre GIS Southgate performance he does seem to uh take the sting out of England he really does Neil good to talk to you excellent let’s go to Mark in Lincolnshire who I do believe doesn’t want to talk about the football uh you want to talk about Nigel farage being worried about all these young men invad the country Mark yeah well I heard your message there from philling St Helens he’s he’s absolutely right to be worried about his little Community because I am and millions of people are um you know I mean I speak to you know there’s a a young woman that I speak to you know very early 20s and I was talking to her about all of this you know and I was quite shocked what she was telling me um where she was basically saying that around here now there’s not a DE really goes by it’s more of a rarity if she goes a day without hearing about either herself or one of her friends being in some way there sexually harassed and it isn’t so is this is in an area where there are hotels or detention centers with migrants in them yes this this will be this will be in places where they will congregate you know so they’ll be within the town area you know in various hotels or multiple occupy buildings that kind of thing and they’ll they’ll tend to congregate in certain spaces which you know as she was saying to me tends to be things like supermarkets you know around the you know yeah no I mean to to be fair to these young male migrants and uh Nigel farage says that 91% of the migrants that come across the channel illegally are young males between uh they’re usually between the age of 18 and 34 I mean I’ve heard figures like 84% sometimes 75% but it is definitely the case that the vast majority of these migrants uh look to be economic because they’re young males in Search and work you know and but the point is Mark that when they come here and we stick them in these hotels give them 43 quid a week why do we do that uh and uh and we pay for their food uh we don’t let them work and I think that’s the right thing to do but the poor guys have got nothing to do so they gather on street corners and trouble ensues if you see what I mean well this this is where you know reform of great rights you had um Henry Bolton was on with JK earlier and he was saying you know reform have got a lot a lot of good things to say about you know the immigration issue and a lot of good ideas but they’ve got no real you know meat on the bores as it were and that’s not really true because we’ve actually got quite a few bits you know they’ve talked at length in in some interviews about the kind of things that they T you know want to do yeah and one of them is the really obvious that people like probably ourselves here and other listeners have been thinking for so long since it started y you know they they’re talking about when they come in here whether they’re able to get rid of them you know take them back immediately or not they will be detained yeah no I mean I don’t know if you watched the Suns debate last night uh with sunak and starma uh and as I always say you know don’t I’m not showing favoritism I’m an equal opportunity electoral disparager uh I thought on the migrant crisis both of them were nothing short of pathetic uh they really are pathetic neither of them have got any answers all you get from them is word soup yeah uh sunak said oh it there are signs that we could soon Harve the num the N the level of net migration well where did he get that from uh there and starma oh definitely our plan will work where did he where did he get that from it’s it’s just word suit there’s nothing practical in It In fairness to reform uh they have uh what should we say more Draconian plans uh for the migrant crisis but what I think about farage and his cohorts is they’re not trying to put that much meat on the bones because they’re not pretending they’re going to be the next government they’re just coming up with some solutions uh but what’s worrying about Labor and the Tories is the Tories the current government they’ve achieved nothing the square root of sod all on the migrants crisis except for making it a lot worse uh and starm has got no plans at all uh which are very worrying uh listen Mark I better move on but it’s really good to talk to you call me again uh Mark in Lincolnshire there when we come back we’ll be talking to Ryan sa the deputy editor of the sun with a review of last night’s clash between sunak and starma and some of uh the Salient facts that emerg from that excellent event so that next I’m Kevin I Sullivan this is is my political Asylum stay tuned [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I I go around giving talks about the NHS to various organizations and one of the things about it is any health care system in the world that works well is a system that is kept well away from politicians and and if either K starm and west streeting or richy sunak and whoever he would make his health secretary if any of them think that they are going to reform form the NHS forget it it’s not going to happen because within the management of the NHS they are absolute Past Masters of diluting and weakening anything that looks like reform and actually Clinging On to the status quo and an awful lot of people watching that documentary last night were shocked to see some of the attitudes of some of the staff you know because we’re led to believe that you know the staff are all angels and the nurses are all brilliant and the doctors are doing their best and they’re tired all the time but nevertheless they’re fighting for everybody’s you know right to to be given free health care at the point of U [Music] [Music] need I I go around giving across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube yoube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is t uh welcome back uh let’s go straight over to the sons Deputy political editor Ryan sa he’s taken time out of the football it’s halime uh let’s not even talk about that shall we for now uh welcome uh Ryan evening Kevin uh well first of all let me I don’t know if you know this uh but uh the leader of the world conservatives Andrew RT Davis has said that Russell George the shadow Health secretary in Wales has stepped down stepped back from the shadow cabinet uh because he’s he’s yet another Tory being investigated for election day gambling uh so rishy soon at last night at your event the sun’s event made his Fury well known uh but it continues a pace and today we learned that this labor candidate Uh Kevin C put money on himself to lose K starm has kicked him out now political betting is something that goes on in Westminster but it’s one of those dirty little secrets that is now being exposed to the public and the public look at it and think this is disgusting they don’t like it uh so once again it is a disillusion with Westminster that prevails yeah it’s that you know the alleged I say alleged at this stage it’s the uh the inside information angle where lots of people going to have a bet once a week maybe once a year maybe never but they do it in good faith that the the odds are you you know they’re even as it were they are you know you just have just as much right as winning um as as the next person but when someone is betting and they have a little bit of inside information and they’re trying to make money out of it that’s when the public get absolutely riled now a lots of these are allegations they’re all being investigated by the gambling commission um but it’s just that feeling that it’s one rule for Westminster it’s one rule for everyone everyone else and tonight we’ve got that we’ve got the news that Alistar Jack um could be uh s dragged into this um he he told people that after Rishi sunak made that announcement about the election on May the 22nd that he won more than 2,000 now he said it was just a joke and uh but actually he’s put out a statement saying that he didn’t actually make any bets um during the time frame that the Electoral commission is uh is looking at so it’s a high profile person there aliser Jack the Scottish secretary member of the cabinet has been dragged into this maybe not in the same way as the others but it just makes it a little bit uh uh certainly raise eyebrows at uh this he claims that uh that he was talking about the June July summer election was always the best option for the Prime Minister have been talking this up for the past year but that’s just another development in this yeah because there’s been a lot of speculation that there’s a cabinet minister involved in this as you say uh Mr Jack denies any wrongdoing but he could be the name in the frame that people have been discussing uh last night uh sunak versus starma uh personally I thought the Prime Minister performed well uh I’m not saying this due to any political bias I just didn’t think starma was very good but the sad fact is it doesn’t matter anymore does it no I mean Richie sunak I think he’s got he had obviously the sun debate last night he’s got the big debate on the BBC which is that head-to-head Clash tomorrow night and I think all his job really now is it has been really since the start of the selection campaign a damage limitation exercise but what he’s got to do over the next week is make sure that he gets that vote out and tries to claw back some support from reform that’s all he can do I I spoke to one uh MP former MP toy candidate uh this morning who’s in a seat I would say he’s probably in the top 30 top 50 seats and he said it’s pretty hard work out there to try and get votes for uh the conservatives and that’s someone who’s got one of the safest seats in the country so they’re finding it t you can imagine it how it is if you’ve got a majority of maybe 10 to 15,000 it’s very very difficult what would you say Ryan I mean I thought both candidates were uh close to pathetic on the migrant crisis rishy Stak of course stands condemned by his track record uh and it doesn’t seem to me like starma has any kind of plan at all and I’m not sure whether either of them are right across how important this issue is to the electorate yeah on illegal miction I thought richy s could you could sense that at least he has a plan um and he’s going to try and get one of those planes off at the end of the July you know you know if he if he’s prime minister then saki stama keeps talking about smashing the gangs it’s you know there’s a lots of catch phases and slogans bouncing around whether it stop the boats smash the gangs but actually stopping the boats and actually stopping the numbers from coming across it’s going to be really really difficult no matter who’s in power um this week you’ve had uh I think for the first six months of the year it’s been the record number for the first six months of of any year and it’s going to be difficult and just by throwing around slogans isn’t going to make the make the problem go away um and it’s going to be tough for uh for k starma um especially over the summer he’s got a summer to deal with and those Boat Crossings come across if he’s elected of course well it’s a chicken and egg thing with K starma he seems to be uh trying to tell us that uh if you smash the gangs you’ll solve the migrant crisis well you won’t because as long as migrants are coming there will be gangs you can arrest every single people Smuggler out there right now put them in jail for life and next week there’ll be more new gangs so he’s entirely wrong to say the source of the problem is the gangs the source of the problem is of course the migrants you got to stop the migrants then there won’t be gangs obviously uh I was going to get you on originally Ryan just uh you can uh put this rumor to bed there was a story in the Sunday papers saying that Sue gray Labour’s Chief of Staff uh was planning to ban axe all the House of Commons the Parliamentary bars the MPS and their guests enjoy going to for a drink uh but uh that turns out to be entirely not true yeah I yeah labor seems to put out a denial or I think they spoke to the mail on Sunday and uh and denied the story but also ultimately it’s not up to to uh the government it’s up to the Parliamentary authorities so just on the say so of one person they may not like the you know the culture of of people drinking there but uh go back to Andrea leum who was leader of the common she’s done you know a lot she did a lot during her time to uh make sure there was a you know whole range of uh non-alcoholic drinks or what there may well be to curb ball that uh that drinking and I think close reducing the times of the bars are available and things like that um so yeah but on the behest of one person it’s just not going to happen it’s just not on all right well listen I better let you go back and have a drink God knows you’re going to need one the way England are playing great talking to you Ryan Ryan sa their Deputy editor of the sun Neil Neil and cologne with England so we’ll keep your a breast of that uh after the break the NHS a terrible story look forward to that not uh you’re with the politic Asylum [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on daab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is [Music] talk welcome back uh this is the first third hour of tonight’s political Asylum it is Tuesday the 25th of June England are drawing with Slovenia over there in Cologne in Germany in the Euros just hearing England dominated possession not as far as I could see looked like svenia had a lot of possession as well we did get it in the net but that was offside uh now uh in this final hour uh in about 20 minutes we’ll be talking about the space Invasion extraordinary incident back in 197 7 uh in the Welsh V Village of broad Haven the local school there uh kids school uh supp all schools are kids schools really aren’t they kids school of broad Haven School uh all the pupils or lots of the pupils suddenly saw this or they say they saw this huge cigar shaped UFO landing right near the school Gates and uh uh this incident is was the subject now has been the subject of a new program on the BBC called paranormal the village that saw aliens and uh the Headmaster of that school said all right kids you all said you saw this he put them separately all the kids in the he put them separately he said right draw what you saw they all drew the same thing uh so it seems that something happened there so we’ll be talking about the space invasion of broad Haven in Wales very soon taking your calls uh in about half an hour’s time so get them in please 03 44499 1,000 or you can leave us a WhatsApp voice note if you like on the same number uh what do you think about Nigel farage’s warning that all of these migrants that come across the channel he says 91% of them are young men coming from countries full of gangster crime uh War we don’t know anything about them does that worry you do you trust uh our politicians to uh uh deal with that unaccept situation 03 44499 1,000 and is rishy soon outright when he says that there are all these migrants queuing up in Cal waiting for the labor government to get in so that they get an easier ride do you think Kier star was going to stop the boats richy sunak hasn’t stopped the boats will Kier 03 44499 1,000 and finally I’ll be asking why labor MP David Lamy is second uh in the list in the Social Power index list the people who are most socially uh influential in this country it’s a list full of billionaires socialites top people famous people there’s even a couple of footballers uh and second in the list after the Duke and Duchess of Westminster is David Lamy hey how did he get on the list any ideas cuz I genuinely don’t know 0344 4991 before we get to any of that uh let’s talk about the NHS I’m going to talk to Roy Lily in just a second uh but first uh if you will this is a group of staff at shobby at a hospital in shury uh and uh they are talking about the 4our a ande weight limit so when you go to uh A&E accident in emergency there’s supposed to be a maximum of a four hour waight which never seemed to me to be particularly impressive you know you go in there you’ve had an accident you we see you within 4 hours oh great what an achievement anyway uh this is uh a group of staff at this Hospital giggling away because one of their patients uh has not only missed the 4H hour A&E Target uh he or she has been waiting for a staggering 46 hours in A&E listen listen to this like 40 hours 35 hours is that normal yeah at the moment it is really why she so moving in the hospital patients that they so longest waiting 46 hours the longest 4 hours these people have been in 46 yeah so we’re not hitting any Targets I’d say we have at least like 40es a day well that’s pretty shocking and they seem to be think it’s quite funny I’m not sure if you think it’s amusing let me know what you think 03 44499 1,000 just another day apparently at Royal showby hospitals A and E Department uh let’s talk to former NHS trust chairman and health policy analyst Roy Lily welcome Roy having good evening uh you saw that video uh I suppose you could charitably dismiss it as Gallows humor uh but it’s not funny is it that some poor patient not only did not hit the 4H hour A and E waiting limit uh they were waiting for 46 hours and it’s not funny that the staff found that amusing is it no it’s not and you are right there’s a kind of black humor in all this and and it’s disgusting and you know to be honest we don’t need another television program to tell us what the problems are in A&E I mean you and I have discussed them you know often enough about people waiting in A&E and how the failure to hit the target the reason that they don’t hit the target is because A&E gets Chua block because it’s ch it’s Chu a block because they can’t move patients onto the wards they can’t move patients onto the wards because fry people who are medically fit to dischar charge U can’t be sent home on their own they need uh domiciliary care care packages from the local authorities the local authorities are SK they’ve got no money the companies that uh are doing domiciliary care uh uh are going broke and the whole of that the sort of social care element of the care package uh is broken and you know a couple of weeks ago I was at a a social care conference and there were a lot of domicillary care companies there talking about trying to provide services for local authorities they were telling me that they lose1 p68 an hour 1 p68 an hour on every contract they have with local government to provide care packages to get people out of Hospital the way they make their money is when families decide that they will pay for care packages themselves so these are private care packages and and they are subsidizing effectively local Authority local government care packages because the the money the government give the local authorities to provide the care packages it just isn’t enough and time and time again I see this I see in hospitals I visit I talk about it on programs like this you know and here’s the thing Kevin there are two things and you’ll know this there are two things that people are worried about during this election one is the cost of living and the other is the performance of the NHS where is Victoria Atkins the Tory Secretary of State for health have you seen her anywhere on any program at any time of the day I haven’t she’s totally gone missing a and I mean I I don’t know how the hell we help we hold people to account over this and you know during the election is it going to get any better you know West streeting is talking about fixing everything by paying people a few quid overtime to bring the weight list down well you know good luck with that the Tories are talking about you know more of the same effectively and The Institute of fiscal studies produced a report this morning and I’ve got I’ve got it here we are already facing a 50 billion pound a year increase in debt interest that’s got to be paid and we’ve got both of the main political parties saying they don’t need to borrow more and they don’t need to charge us more taxes to keep Public Services going this is whole thing is a tissue of lies and the roof is coming in uh it certainly seems it now you talk about Victoria Atkins the uh absent without leave Health secretary at this crucial time but it is people like her it is politicians it is governments who come up with these targets almost arbitrary we’ve got to see everyone in A&E within four hours that’s the target that’s what the NHS is going to commit to well what is the point of saying things like that and it may be hospital staff it may be NHS EX are saying what is the point of saying that Roy when you we know that these staff for example at Royal shy have this massive bed blocking problem so in other words promises are being made that deep down a lot of high up Executives know the staff on the ground cannot keep that amounts to deception doesn’t it Kevin of course it does Kevin it’s been abandoned I mean nobody tries to hit the target anymore because they know they can’t I mean some cases they do but then we go back to Tony Blair when Blair got in in the 1997 Landslide the NHS was in a desperate State he he persuaded Gordon Brown to put a lot more money into the NHS and as part of that tradeoff they set a number of targets one of the targets was a 4H hour A&E Target in four hours I know four hours seems like a long time if it’s an emergency it doesn’t seem that Draconian does it 4 hours you go you go in with a broken leg you want to be seen a bit quicker than that but that’s another issue and and you are seen with you know I mean it’s not just everything in four hours it’s graduating gradu so you know a heart attack will be seen immediately you know some you know some fractures can you can wait a bit longer for those and sometimes you have to watch and wait for example if someone comes in with a head injury they can cuss they have a head scann but you got to watch and wait and see what happens to them so four hours was agreed by clinicians actually as being a a good window of time Blair wanted 99% of people seen in in in in the 4H hour window actually it turned out it wasn’t practical and then the you know in the passing of time Andrew lansley we we fast forward to Andrew lansley he reduced it to 95% 95% was hit um during uh was hit for a very long period uh and because what went wrong really was covid and the per per before covid the the wheels came off the NHS in the period after the world banking crisis up to covid between 2009 in covid because of the world banking crisis we had an austerity package from George osbon who was the Secretary of State for who was the um pardon me he was the chancellor of jeer at the time we had uh we had cuts to local government and the NHS that needs about 4% a year to survive had under 2% 10 years of under 2% didn’t recruit enough train enough buy enough repair enough do enough and as a result of that we went into covid with uh waiting list of four and a half million and nurs nurse shortages of about 40,000 because covid just you know BL obliterated everything now we’re the other side of covid and the the the chickens are coming home to roost but that was when the damage was done but the history actually of targets what was actually to focus attention and to make the NHS more efficient and there was a lot more investment because part of the service being more efficient is about investment in making it efficient and that’s those are the the the factors that really have made the problem over the last years uh indeed now uh you mentioned uh West streeing the probable next uh Health secretary uh after the election on July the 4th Labor’s man uh I mean he’s making a lot of noises that frankly we’ve all heard before he’s going to reform it he’s going to be the guy who grabs the NHS by the Scruff of the neck and finally sorts it out uh uh well you know I really do wish him well uh but he has got an uphill Moun to climb to say the least I mean I would suggest how about this why don’t you start with the 3,500 middle managers who are not medically qualified all of whom earn six figure salaries £100,000 or more why don’t you start with them uh you get rid of nearly all of them no doubt and start to give the money to the front line workers give the doctors and the nurses better deals so we keep the cream of the medical crop working for the NHS that sort of thing cut back on the ludicrous number of diversity offices that we’re paying for as if diversity in any way helps cure people helps get unhealthy people back to Fitness uh that sort of thing do you trust him to do this uh because nothing I don’t I don’t no the the short answer is no I mean there’s a lad that’s you know for most of his life he’s either been a university or worked in a charity or worked for the labor party he’s never run anything and now he’s going to run the biggest organization that we’ve got with the biggest budget that we’ve got look when we look at these things you talk about managers do you know the the the all up cost of managing the NHS is 2% of the budget if you look at what’s happening in Germany it’s 5% it’s 7% in France it’s 12% United United States we are actually I mean most people now most observers of the NHS say the NHS is undermanaged the difficulty that it’s got is it’s administrated with Bits of Paper and pencils because of the investment that’s been in it has been so woeful so I I mean I’m not terribly wound up about the number of managers that there are on the NHS because frankly we compare very well with with overseas um you know with oecd and other other countries of similar H so that that’s not a big that’s not a big bite I think that we need to worry about what does worry me is he saying things like he’s going to reduce he’s going to uh recruit thousands of new GPS well where’s he gonna get them from Kevin you know was he gonna ring Amazon and get a box delivered you know I mean it takes 10 years to train a basic GP and then probably another five years before you know they can really stand alone I mean but the trouble is we’ve got a public that is very worried about the NHS and we’ve got a public that I don’t mean to be disre disrespectful but is is gullible in many ways because if someone comes in and says I’m gonna bring a thousand new GPS in but I mean they they take people at their word and they think they can do it you and I know that we couldn’t train an extra thousand if we wanted to because the universities don’t have the training places so I mean this this whole election campaign is based on a tissue of Lies most of which hasn’t been challenged and I you know I think I know about the NHS I think you do Roy I think you do and I think it’s a tissue of lies about the NHS well didn’t didn’t labor say sorry to interrup I don’t know about defense or education and I’m just assuming is a tissue of lies about that as well yeah well l l uh didn’t labor say something like we’re going to make sure that uh 40,000 more appointments are seen every week or something I mean that’s all very well to say it but how do you do it I mean I’m well they say they’re going to do it by paying doctors and nurses overtime let me tell you one of the reasons that NHS England is overspent on his budget at the moment is the overtime that it’s paying in trying to do these appointments already I mean the whole thing is is a load of spherics you know it really is C and live Dems that today I heard the boss of the lib Dem saying that every cancer patient is going to be given a specialist nurse well you know there are I don’t know 20,000 cancer patients well more 200,000 cancer patients every year where are we going to find 200,000 cancer specialist nurses do you know how long it takes to train a specialist nurse you know you you’re talking 10 15 years these people I mean if the ad if if elections were were controlled by the advertising standards Authority all the politicians will be jail we wouldn’t have an election actually that I think I rather like that idea of putting all politicians in jail it might be a better country certainly might be a better NHS Roy fantastic to talk to you thank you so much for your time that’s Roy Lily there uh former NHS trust chairman and health policy analyst what do you think about that taking your calls in about 10 minutes of but you know Gallows humor all that but the staff laughing we’re supposed to hit a 4H hour Target for A&E accidents in 46 hours missed that didn’t we 0344 499 1,000 uh uh next up we’re going to be talking about UFOs an extraordinary new BBC uh program has sha a light on an incident that allegedly happened in Broad Haven Welsh village in 1977 where all these kids at the same school said they saw this cigar shaped UFO uh from which stepped an alien a Spaceman and they drew it and all of them do the same kind of thing even though they were separated so uh interesting times uh we’ll be asking what exactly happened with this space invasion in Wales Back in 77 so that next I’m Kevin O Sullivan this is my political Asylum and you’re with talk stay exactly where you are [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I I go around giving talks about the NHS to various organizations and one of the things about it is any health care system in the world that works well is a system that is kept well away from politicians and and if either K starmer and west streeting or rishy sunak and whoever he would make his health secretary if any of them think that they are going to reform the NHS forget it it’s not going to happen because within the management of the NHS they are absolute Past Masters of diluting and weakening anything that looks like form and actually Clinging On to the status quo and an awful lot of people watching that documentary last night were shocked to see some of the attitudes of some of the staff you know because we’re led to believe that you know the staff are all angels and the nurses are all brilliant and the doctors are doing their best and they’re tired all the time but nevertheless they’re fighting for everybody’s you know right to to be given free health care at the point of U Need [Music] [Music] I I across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is tor uh nip down to the Village of uh broad Haven in North Wales you will find uh people of a certain age who were school kids 50 years or more than 50 years ago in 1977 actually that’s less than 50 years ago isn’t it in 1977 uh at the local school uh they saw this cigar or they said they saw the cigar shaped aircraft UFO landing and some of them say they saw a Spaceman get out uh and uh the they’re all telling this story and so the head master said look I’ll tell you what so he separated them all out all these kids he said you all you can’t see what each other’s drawing you draw what you saw they all Drew pretty much the same thing uh and people still talk of it today we’re trying to get a hold of somebody who may have seen this uh 15 school school children 14 boys and one girl all reported to their teach teacher seeing a curious silver cigar shaped aircraft in the Fields behind their school M Cur more Curious yet some of the children claimed they had seen a silver man with pointed ears emerg from this strange vessel uh so it’s the uniformity look at these pictures uh it’s the uniformity of their pictures there they are all holding them uh that makes people uh put a lot of store by these sightings so it’s recently in a uh BBC documentary called paranormal the village that saw a ions bro broad Haven is a sort of Mecca for UFO fans all over the world for this reason there’s 856 people live there uh and they are steeped in the story of their local UFO uh let’s talk to uh the author of alien of the alien perspective uh Dr David White House hi David hello uh what do you make of this I mean it is quite extraordinary I mean it’s been brought back into sharp Focus by this new BBC show but back in 1977 15 school kids clear as Nightfall as day said they saw this silver cigar shaped craft Landing in the fields next to their school and then when asked to draw it separately they all drew the same thing uh what do you think happened well as usual these stories get embellished in the telling and get added to over the years and the fundamentals of what you described there aren’t true the first time that broad Haven had a UFO incident at that time was in a chap called Glenn Edwards a few weeks before these school children saw their UFO was a prankster walking around in a silver fire suit borrowed from the local oil refinery um annoying the local um Hotel Keepers and that spooked the whole village and these kids who saw something for just a few seconds did not get taken away and isolated and Dr the same thing they saw it in the playground and a few days later after the weekend they were back at school the Headmaster after a morning at school took them into the same room and said Drew what you say so they only have to talk to each other for a few moments uh the previous weekend over previous week over the weekend that morning at the school gate and they would get roughly the same story and in fact if you look at the pictures there are a theme of a generic type of theme you would see in science fiction on television in comics and but they know but by no means you know identical and the school people school kids only saw it for a few seconds so when you drill down into this type of event yeah it actually falls to bits you you know what the the bit where I mean I I like anybody I love these kind of stories they’re very they’re very intriguing but the bit where uh my credibility was shall we say overstretched or my credulousness was overstretched was the Silver guy with silver ears I mean you know I maybe I could accept a cigar shaped spacecraft but a silver a silver Spaceman uh that was stretching in a bit you’re quite right um people when they see these things see stereotypes they see the gray alien with big eyes or in those days somebody in a silver suit the type of thing that’s part of Close Encounters part of outer limits part of the background of aliens that we all come across you know in our daily lives if you were to believe people who see these aliens and have these encounters with them uh and you have to take stories seriously but you need evidence there are over 60 species of aliens visiting this Earth in strange places coming across ordinary people doing strange things to them at this moment 60 species of aliens dozens of different types of spacecraft right now right now right right now and hang on David so you’re very skeptical about broad Haven but you’re a believer in terms of space aliens and UFOs no I believe there’s life out there in space but is it too much to ask that over 70 or 80 years since Roswell one closeup Focus picture yeah in closeup INF Focus picture of an alien spaceship or an alien there are two or three billion cameras on this planet now there are a million people in the air at any one time and many of them have got window seats and yet the quality of pictures of UFOs of flying sources has not increased with that surveillance so this is an interesting Oma but I it’s not aliens and uh why do you think that the UFO uh story I was going to say myth but that might be a little unfair a lot of people believe in this stuff uh that the UFO story uh prospers is it because people want to believe there’s something out there you know like the X you are quite right you are quite right we have a deep seated desire many of us do to want to know if we’re alone in the universe um and people can take that desire and passion too far uh and they can lose tough-minded critical analysis and you’ve got to say the onus is not on somebody like me to prove that this sighting or that strange light is an extraordinary craft from another planetary system piloted by ens it’s not up to me to prove it’s not it’s up to the people who have the so-called evidence to prove to me it is I’m skeptical and nobody has got I’m afraid it’s a mythology it’s a community it’s a it’s a way of life to some people but nobody has got the hard evidence uh indeed uh but what I would say and I’m with you uh I’m an interested skeptic as I think you are too but what I would say is the universe you know is unimaginably vast it is literally vast beyond our comprehension uh full of an indeterminant number number of planets Stars objects uh actually if you take on board the sheer scale and size of the universe it’s pretty unlikely that there’s not something else out there isn’t it absolutely the universe is vast and we’re discovering planets after planets around nearby stars and we probably will sometime in the future discover evidence of a biology in the atmosphere of nearby Stars we are scanning the sky for signals to a greater ENT signals from Alien civilizations than we have ever done but the fact that way out there there is probably life and there are know we haven’t found it yet but we think there probably is because of the Scale of the Universe and the diversity of the universe is actually a different question from are they here on planet Earth now you have to it’s a different set of evidence different question and just because there may be life on planets around other STS doesn’t mean that aliens are here at the I would love it it would great wouldn’t it be interesting but give me the facts nobody in decades there are efforts for called disclosure and accusing governments of coverups and crashed space shps and aliens in freezers at Area 51 in America that’s been going on for decades but nobody but nobody has got any evidence and why did the enthusiasts always insist or depict uh these aliens these Space Invaders as it were as you know they’ve got two legs two arms eyes and a nose they’re based on humans aren’t they AB you’re absolutely right they are too human if you see an alien with two eyes and nose and a horizontal mouth you know that like us they descended from fishes at the bottom of an ocean millions of years ago they are too like us to be believable absolutely Dave fascinating conversation you must come on again that was really interesting uh Dr David White House there author of the alien perspective we’ll try and get a hold of one of these kids who saw this cigar shaped UFO down there in Broad Haven because they do have an interesting story to tell and I’ll put David’s points to them so uh we’ll talk to someone on the scene just as soon as we can uh next up your calls 0344 4991 th000 talking to you right after these messages I’m Kevin O Sullivan this is the political ass asum stay tuned [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is tor uh welcome back uh we’re going to take your calls in just a second we have got some we’ got lots of calls well I wouldn’t say lots but respectable number I told you there are people out there who don’t care about the football at the beginning of the match I really cared about the football I don’t care anymore it is what are we on 18 minutes and it’s England nil Slovenia nil so uh well done L well done the three lines we’re holding Slovenia Mighty Slovenia to a draw well done Gareth another fantastic performance honestly honestly we can do better than this we really really can uh here’s a what’sapp from Ernie a lot of people bet on a team or someone to lose because it’s a win-win situation if you lose you win uh you win money to help you drown your Sorrows if you win it’s a massive result for you yeah kind of uh and Kevin Craig the labor candidate who bet on himself to lose I don’t see any particular wrongdoing there uh but uh those who’ve bet on the date of the election if they were using Insider information if they were using information that emanated from rissy Sun’s surprise decision to have that summer election July the 4th then that is information that the general public did not have that defines an illegal bet as simple as that so uh some of these people talk about hundreds now apparently may get their colar felt uh I’ll just read one uh more message this is from time to wake up uh let’s be honest neither conservative or labor have any intention of stopping the boats or deporting any that’s already that are already here once they’re in power they get amnesia and don’t remember anything they state to get our votes you got that right uh leave the ECR put the Navy in the channel well the Navy won’t stop them so you can forget about that uh put the Navy in the channel stop the rnli that’s the lifeboats chaperoning them and the Border force chaperoning them in find the D subl Co them down yeah just turn the boats around just don’t let them here it’s not it’s not illegal it’s not illegal uh I don’t know why Rishi sunat didn’t try that might have got him a lot of votes but then again you know he’s more interested in looking good on the international stage a reputation on the international stage uh than he is in actually bringing about uh effective measures that would control this invasion of the migrants oh did I say invas there oh oh oh slap my wrist must say in V the language you use is so important use whatever language you damn well like don’t you let that Westminster lot that BBC tell you what you can and cannot say seriously I mean that now let’s take some calls let’s go to Edinburgh and talk to Greg hello Greg you want to talk about the betting Scandal yeah it was just oh sorry good evening Kevin hi yeah and know it was about there was a sort of followup on the news to the the whole issue about the betting Scandal and yeah you’re right that some of it you I don’t see what’s wrong with bet in some circumstances but if it’s inside her information as it were then uh that’s clearly just beyond it do it does actually Greg Define an illegal bet the gambling Act is a relatively recent act and as I say the definition of an illegal bet is the use of information that is not available to the general public so if you were close to Rishi sunak close to that decision to uh hold the election on July the 4th and you knew it was July the 4th and you went to put a flutter on uh you broke the law it’s as simple as that but my point my main point was that after the that was discussed on the news there was a quote from par mcfaden uh labor Chief’s uh campaign director was uh yeah who was clutching at his peils at the mendacity and the illegality of the Tory party and saying that quote that they’d filled their boots at the public expense now this was the man that only a few weeks ago was found to have owned a house and then rented the house next door to it so that he could max out his uh his MP’s uh allowances well we mustn’t go into the reasons but uh you’re right he was found to to uh live in one was it live in one home and rent the next door one out absolutely and he thought there was nothing wrong with that uh but my point was it’s just the caliber of the entire political class is making everyone really cynical about democracy and it undermines it uh it does uh and did you remember uh the rdale candidate uh what was his name AA Ali do you remember he was the labor candidate who was standing against George Galloway among others up there in Rochdale for that byelection Pat mcfaden came out and said uh uh the comments that azah Ali made at a secret meeting in which he condemned Israel and said that there must be a a peace deal and they’re evil and Hamas are wonderful didn’t quite say that but that was the tenor of it pat Mander defended him said oh no he didn’t do anything wrong he’s our candidate until K said oh wait a minute he’s not our candidate so then Pat mcfaden swiveled on a Sixpence and changed his fees we mustn’t just attack Pat mcfaden he’s symp symptomatic of the people we find in the Westminster bubble isn’t he yeah and the point is I think the winner is going to be just apathe and cynicism because it’s the same across all the parties and the one thing about uh reform uh which you know I don’t want to say either way whether you be B at least they disruptive and and people are are desperate for disruption in the in the system D parage is a disruptor the reforms are parties a disruptor although they’ll make it very clear they have much higher Ambitions just to mix than just to mix it up uh we’ll see how well they do in the election but the polling is going pretty well for them but they’re disruptors Nigel farage is a disruptor and uh that’s what our wonderful world of politics needs lots of disruption it needs people to say when the BBC and all those MPS say you can’t say Invasion that’s racist it needs people like me it needs people like Nigel farage and people like you to say shut up we’ll say exactly what we want thanks very much are you with me yeah absolutely well more part your elbow there Kevin because people are just I think the more the number of people you speak to who are just completely disillusioned with all of the parties and have just lost interest because they know they’re being wied to they know they’re being patronized they know they’re being taken for fools or or and and you know it’s just the entire political class needs a good kicking yeah you’re right about that and you’re absolutely right what you said earlier that the winner on July the 4th trust me will be apathy there’s every chance that the majority of people in this country who are able to vote will not the ma majority uh I mean it may be it goes over 50% uh but you’re going to have 45% people at least maybe more maybe down to 55% of people just won’t bother and that’s disillusion and cynicism caused by a cynical B body body politic that just don’t listen to us you’re absolutely like Greg good to talk to you call me again Greg in Edinburgh let’s quickly go to James in Sheffield who wants to talk about the NHS hello James you want to talk about uh your Auntie’s experience uh at a hospital Hospital what happened yeah ke uh thanks good evening yeah me a she um last year she broke her back and uh we took her to A&E and we were there a good uh 10 12 hours how old is your auntie James she was well she’s 64 so she was 63 last year okay so you took her to an did you say she waited 10 hours with a broken back 10 to 12 hours yeah oh my God and were you uh saying were you pointing out um that uh your aunt needed some urgent treatment during this extensive weight we were but um obviously she was uh awake she was stable you know un conscious so she wasn’t a high priority when you say she was conscious did you say yeah right yeah she was conscious she well she must have been in some pain wasn’t she oh yeah she was in a hell of a lot of pain and presumably I mean I’ve got some experience of this sort of thing in hospitals uh and what you do is you just keep going to reception all the time and saying come on it’s been two hours come on it’s been 4 hours were you doing that and just getting short shrift throughout we were um but obviously U this was in Chesterfield Royal as well um jville Royal hospital and you know they’re they’re quite average uh in the UK you know it’s well over 4 hours in A&E um but they have a acute uh side WS in A&E so they get around the targets that way by the way J James um while you’re on I should point out that I I hope you saw that film we played uh it was about 9:00 when we did that NHS report on shury Royal Crosby hospital where uh they were laughing about somebody waiting 46 hours 46 hours can you believe that uh that was on channel 4’s dispatches program I should have credited him then for that did you see that what did you think about the staff laughing about that I did well I think it’s despicable but wasn’t the shury hospital with all the deaths of the kids sorry say again I didn’t catch that James wasn’t the rby the one that I think I think shos yeah I think you’re right it has a very checkered history how is your Aunt now um she’s okay she’s still got um uh the injury to her back it’s uh it’s had to heal naturally there’s been no medical intervention there well God I feel for it really that is a painful process well listen James thank you very much for the call and you give her our best will you uh that’s James in Sheffield there when we come back we’ll be trying to get to the bottom of why David Lamy has been named in the top people’s Society magazine the Tattler as the man with the most social the second most Social Power in the country on the Social Power index David lamby why uh we’ll try and get to the bottom of that next I’m Kevin O Sullivan stay where you are [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] I I go around giving talks about the NHS to various organizations and one of the things about it is any health care system in the world world that works well is a system that is kept well away from politicians and and if either K starmer and west streeting or richy sunak and whoever he would make his health secretary if any of them think that they are going to reform the NHS forget it it’s not going to happen because within the management of the NHS they are absolute Past Masters of diluting and weakening anything that looks like reform and actually Clinging On to the status quo and an awful lot of people watching that documentary last night were shocked to see some of the attitudes of some of the staff you know because we’re led to believe that you know the staff are all angels and the nurses are all brilliant and the doctors are doing their best and they’re tired all the time but nevertheless they’re fighting for everybody’s you know right to to be given free health care at the point of U Need [Music] I I go across the UK on dab Plus on YouTube on the app on your mobile the home of Common Sense this is talk another Sensational result for England over there in Cologne they have drawn they’ve managed to hold stania to a nil nil draw yeah brilliant brilliant unbelievable isn’t it that means Slovenia go through obviously England go through and no doubt Gareth Southgate will tell us how pleasy is that we remain unbeaten uh great anyway uh let’s move on uh David Lamy uh the shadow foreign secretary uh something of a gray man I think uh he has been voted or listed as number two in the top People’s magazine the tatler Social Power index uh so he is there in amongst the Great and the good I mean we’re talking about billionaires famous people we’ve got the Duke and Duchess of West W Westminster the richest couple in Britain they’re number one uh we have Trent Alexander Arnold who was dropped tonight uh for England uh with his girlfriend Iris La she’s a model he’s number four five I’m sorry I’m sorry uh and uh Al boss here Rupert Murdoch uh he is uh number six I cannot understand why among all these billionaires Stars famous sporting individuals uh people of genuine Social Power I might suggest uh David Lamy is number two let’s talk to a person who knows about compiling this kind of list he’s the compiler of the Sunday Times legendary rich list Robert Watts thanks for joining us Robert oh thanks for having me on Kevin how on Earth does David L Lamy and to be fair his wife the artist Nicola green how come they’re second I mean I I don’t want to uh sound like I’m sucking up to my boss but surely rert Murdoch for example has more social power than David Lamy well I mean it baffled me I mean why pick David Lamie not his boss who a lot of people are expecting him to walk into number 10 um potentially uh next week it is um quite uh quite striking this I’ve got to be slightly careful what I say haven’t I because I I don’t think the tler tler types are they like to send the Heavies around exactly but I do wonder if how many negronis have been drunk while putting this list together I mean I think a lot of people I think readers can really tell the difference with these sorts of lists ones where you know with the for example the Sunday Times rich list where it’s you know month after month of trolling through accounts and it’s based on something some ballast and then something which is is kind of meant to be a bit of a fun bit of fun but but this list there are some as you say some absolutely staggering ones that you just find awfully surprising as you say on the same tack Trent Alexander Arnold great footballer very nice looking successful girlfriend Iris Law she’s a model uh but why that footballer you know why not Harry Kane or anyone else well exactly and you know the curse of of of of these things that you know you put this out they launch it in a day to you know the day after couple of days after the the poor guys dropped where’s du a leaper where’s you know when Prince William wouldn’t he have more P you know even the guy at the top the The Duke of Westminster you could arguably say that he has less social power he’s just he’s just got married he’s no longer the country’s most eligible bachelor which he’s been for for year after year and he’s now sort of Les Glam so yeah it it is a it’s a rum list to put it modly but what we should say you know we’ve only got 10 the names so far there there more names to be published in the in the days ahead and maybe maybe there are as we get down the list it seems more more plausible Perhaps Perhaps You’re On It Kevin who knows yeah yeah I’m expecting to be number eight Theo and Flora of rof uh that is the Deputy head of mission at the British Embassy in Paris uh and Samantha Cameron’s sister who’s a gemologist Deputy head why not the head surely the head must have more social influence exactly and you could say the same about David Ross at number three you remember David Ross a lot of people would have heard of him he was one of the guys who set up Carone warehouse but I mean a lot of people um would consider him the sort of the sidekick of Charles Dunston who is perhaps sort of the the the more the better known of the of the entrepreneurs behind it so it’s um it does it does seem surprising but you know the thing about these lists is they they look they got us talking and they’ll have other no that that was the last thing going to say to you Robert far be it from me or perhaps us to P scorn on our colleagues in the media but uh do you think there’s a SL slight element of the PE the guys at tatler and the girls at tler of course looking for headlines here trying to go for unusual suspects in order to Garner publicity well I think that’s true but I think you’ve got to be careful is that readers know you know readers aren’t idiots they know for well when something’s being carefully judiciously put together and accur researched and something that that just looks looks like it’s being thrown together can damage your brand damage your reputation yeah and your list of course the rich list is scrupulously researched which is why it’s such a legend uh you very kindly suggest I might appear on the top 10 socially powerful index in the Tattler very soon uh there’s probably more chance of me appearing on the rich list and by that I mean no chance uh Robert great to talk to you thank you very much that’s uh robt what’s the compiler of the rich list in the Sunday Times uh it’s Neil Neil Petri Hoskins in theil Neil we’re watching avidly and by the way