Uncovering The Lost Arts of Boxing and The Coaching Philosophy of Luis Monda: Part II

In the second part of our interview with esteemed boxing coach Luis Monda @OBCWarDogs we dive deep into the “lost arts” of boxing and explore his unique coaching philosophy. Luis shares his candid views on the current state of amateur boxing, his ambitious goals for the future, and the passion that drives his love for coaching. This is an insightful look into the mind of a coach dedicated to preserving and advancing the sport. Whether you’re a seasoned boxer or a fan, Luis’s perspectives will enlighten and inspire you.

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feel about the any lost starts of box and any old school method you saw m mum using the training with yourself that’s not pring anymore honestly not really um there were some things that that came up but a lot of that was because again I would Hound him you know like I’d be like what would Eddie say about this or how would Eddie teach this uh and then after a lot of badger he would show me something you know like he would show me an exercise that that they did you know like uh one thing he he would he told me that Eddie would take his mits a lot and put him like on your body and kind of like move his hands around and you you would have to keep your hands tight to yourself and change positions a lot with the MS pressed against you the whole time and he’s like Eddie Eddie would do that a lot to kind of like well Eddie didn’t do that himself because remember when Mike got with Eddie he was in his 70s already I think uh so he required a mittman and the mittman was thel Torrance so phel would do like a lot of that stuff uh with Eddie guiding and like showing Mike you know like what positions he wanted him in um or he he showed me one with a with a towel some some guys have done something like this now where they they like he’d have like a circle on the ground and you stand in the circle and he’s swinging a towel at you and you’re you’re just doing head movement and like not letting the towel touch you uh he showed me some stuff like that but again like those things were very few and far between uh honestly the the the three professional coaches that I trained with which were Richie Sandoval Mike mcallum and uh murky salsa I trained with a while too joh J did he yes yeah and Michael nun uh they they had different ways of doing myths and certain different philosophies about how to approach fighting but outside of that the gym workouts weren’t very different um from each other it wasn’t until I met Dy that things really started to change because again he showed me a lot of the ways of of training Fighters and by that I mean I don’t mean necessarily how they throw a jab or how they throw a right hand what I mean is how they develop the ability to complete the tasks that you’re asking um like a lot of partner drilling uh partnered Shadow Boxing like a lot of things where the fighters are working with each other as opposed to so being so focused on the coach uh and gym exercises that seem silly but are meant to develop like one specific thing you know uh like stuff like that when I met him that’s when I started like really building a program that started to look different from all the other trainers at Johnny toos like and I got honestly like to be hon to be to be 100% I got ridiculed for it a lot in the beginning and I think a lot of the reason why I got ridiculed for it is because here’s the truth guys like Mike and murky knew these methods because again they both had heavy Cuban influence in their amateur coaching so when my Fighters would be in the ring like Shadow Boxing with each other or playing different versions of tag where like you know you tap they tap each other’s foreheads and you know like as the other one tries to tap the forehead they they move out you know they try move out of the way just little things to develop focus and reflexes uh things like that or a sense of timing and a sense of Rhythm or uh shareif Bugera from Uganda I trained with him under Mike like we both were training with Mike at the same time and his version of what what I refer to as ring tag you you tag here like you tag the collar bone so that when somebody tries to touch you you can you can pull and get your upper body out of the way or you can deflect if they if they don’t actually touch the collar bone then you don’t change you know who’s who’s it but uh stuff like that when I started doing things like that with my with my Fighters I got a lot of people dislike pointing at pointing at my team and saying oh look they’re doing baby stuff you know like they’re they’re doing stuff that I did when I was eight years old and it’s like yeah but that’s what built you that’s what built you so why are you now speaking against it and I think that that came from the idea that there’s this difference between Pro training and amateur training when really I don’t see it that way like I don’t see I don’t see Pro training as something where you kick everyone out of the gym except for that one pro and it’s just the coach and the pro like honestly I wouldn’t even feel comfortable preparing for a fight like that you know like you the gym being full of other Fighters and full of even other coaches and other eyes is is better you know when you when you wanted to do this interview you mentioned that uh I was I had talked to um I was pretty close with Billy Brisco every time he came to to Vegas like he would go to toos sometimes he would come to toos like two hours before his fighter just to sit around and talk with me and uh one thing he told me about the Philly gym scene when the Philly when the Philly gym scene was like the mecca you know that was like kind of the predecessor to Vegas it kind of like went New York then Philly and then Vegas but uh and Vegas is really just Vegas is what it is because of how many pros come here to turn to either further their career or turn pro the Vegas amateur scene still needs a lot of work it needs a lot of improvement like fighters who are born and raised here who come up and they’re good Fighters but uh Billy would tell me that Philly in the gyms over there at the end of the day when the gym would shut down he said all the all the coaches would like sit in a semicircle and they would just talk and like like let’s say I had a guy who’s got a fight coming up I would ask hey FaZe you know what do you think this guy needs to work on and you give me your feedback you know well he’s doing good with this but you know he he’s not jabbing enough or you know after after he throws he doesn’t S side step he doesn’t shift positions he’s still right there in front of the guy and like there was no animosity there was no like there was no uh conflict between the coaches and he said even when he was coming up he said even coaches would trade Fighters for certain amounts of time you know like you send me one of your guys and I give you one of my guys just to make the guy more well-rounded you know and like I think that’s something that’s been sorely missing from the sport yeah yeah I I don’t see I don’t see that happen in the game to be honest especially now with the sort of social media where where become part of your identity as a fighter trade that fighter or someone else with you yeah but it’s interesting concept and yeah something to certainly food for four days um because it would only help the fighter wouldn’t it right go if you look on my Instagram there’s uh there’s videos of my son doing mths with uh another coach uh his name is Will boner and he’s actually the owner of our gym and he’s a good coach uh but even sometimes my son asks me he he’ll say Dad I want to do Ms with you and I’ll say not today you’re going to work with Coach will and he would ask me why and I’d say because we need other eyes man you know like yeah I have a good boxing mind but I’m not seeing everything and I don’t have every idea sometimes sometimes you struggle with something and if he can communicate it to you better than me cool you know uh and you know will will he’s he’s known me for year for a long time for over 10 years so we don’t we don’t argue about you know money or anything like that so it’s not like a matter of professionally stepp on each other’s Toes or not it’s just a matter of are the fighters of our gym getting everything they need you know like and if I if I open my own gym which that’s that’s an you know one of one of my goals like that’s the kind of environment that I want you know that’s even as a head coach like take this as an example which you’ve probably seen I’ve seen Fighters over the years with coaches and that fighter is tanking like that fighter is not doing well and ultimately they’re probably going to quit now when you’re a member of a of a of of a proper Boxing Club in my opinion and again this is just me but when you’re when you’re a member of a prop proper Boxing Club and there’s a staff of coaches that work at that club let’s say there’s five of them and you and that coach are just not working out every time you Spar you end up bloody you know you’re getting hit too much like things are just not working there there’s there’s poor communication at that point the head coach should be able to say Hey listen I’m gonna take that kid and put him with this coach it’s it’s it’s nothing against you you’re a good coach but between you and this particular kid it’s not working and we don’t want to lose the kid out of the sport we don’t want to funnel the kid out because your ego will be hurt if he goes to another coach you know but and and and matter of fact we’ll make sure you get another student that meshes better with you you know like we have people coming to the gym we’re g to make sure that you know G to make sure you’re eating but at the same time this this situation right here is not working out you know like over the years I’ve done that myself a few times where I had when Arthur Williams was still alive like I was training a kid for a couple years and there was just always an impass of communication and and over time I realized that what he wanted from me was more like what Arthur offered so I told him I was like you know what I’m going to talk to Arthur on your behalf and you should go train with him because instead of arguing with me all the time about the way I do things and realizing that I’m not I’m just not going to do them the way you want me to because I have my own reasons for doing them the way that I do them I would much rather you go with him because his program looks more like what you want from me and and I’m fine with that it’s okay Arthur was one of the trainers at toos and I had no ill will about it and Arthur even came to me and said hey you know we can co- Trin him and I was like you know what after all the arguments I’ve had with this kid it’s okay don’t worry like it’s I I don’t have any ill will toward either one of you it’s not about that it’s about getting him to getting him where he feels like he wants to go and he and he’s he’s resisting what I doing so I would much rather make a move like that and for the betterment of the sport and the betterment of the athletes we we should be able to do that you know we should be able to do that without everybody worrying about where the money’s going yeah interesting I mean I have two sons one was box doesn’t compete anymore and the other one is an amate box and both of them I’ve sent to um more experienced trainers than myself and s sort of helped them and it has helped because they’ve both been successful so yes that’s a a good point as well so training southp I understand you you you are southp and yes so so how do you approach training southp figh is differently from Orthodox Fighters and are there any specific techniques or strategies you emphasize I mean I’ve noticed you this amate team especially the southw just dominating in in our kind of in our organization um so you there are guys that are now thinking of learning to box Southpaw know all fighters to help them in the amateur scene so tell us more about the southp strategies than South advantages so that’s a great question because I am I am a southpaw and often I get Southpaw Fighters tell me you’re the first Southpaw coach I’ve ever had like most Southpaw Fighters are trained by Orthodox coaches but uh the the the true secret behind it is no secret at all I don’t there’s no difference I don’t I don’t train them any different uh I have about five southpaws right now my son is a southpaw and I don’t make a big deal about whether they’re Southpaw or Orthodox the principles are the same you still have to be able to set distance you still have to be able to set a jab you still have to know the best position to throw your rear hand from uh you still have to know the best positions and the right distance to throw power shots with the lead hand from all of those core principles are the same the only difference is that Sala Orthodox the the lead hands tend to bump into each other uh and there can be collisions easier it’s easier to collide with each other uh I if I if I were to say the number one thing I do different is I don’t buy into that philosophy that southpaws always have to move right and in fact I have a I have a video on YouTube where I discuss that uh and the the guy that I’m working with in that in that video is from the UK uh his coach is a guy named Al osta and oh yes yes yeah so Al had his guy come to tokos and his guy is a southpaw no I think he was fighting a sou he’s he was training to fight a southpaw I think he’s Orthodox and I’m explaining in the video why only moving One Direction is not a great idea uh it the way I tell my Fighters is if if if you only move one way then I always know where you’re going you know what I mean like you’re giving me you’re giving me a strategic Advantage because you’re only ever going to step to your to your if if if they’re Orthodox against me they’re always going to step to their to their left and if they’re always stepping to their left and then here’s the thing with me my hardest punch was not my straight left my hardest punch was my right hook so why are you gonna always walk into that one you know like it doesn’t it doesn’t make sense so the number one principle that I at the fundamental level that I teach that’s different is that you have to go you have to be able to move both directions doesn’t matter who you’re fighting if you’re fighting an orthodox fighter or a southpaw fighter you have to be able to step left or step right I think Ed f um you to say as well maybe it was Georgie Benton maybe Geor B got F but you V to on fight in semicircles so in both directions yeah you keep turning yes turning your opponent yes yeah we also had a us the question um asking about any old school Southport tactics not one t to utilize that something you see at all um not not necessarily uh again again like I I don’t get hung up on what stance they are you know like I don’t I don’t get hung up on what stance they are because the core principles are the same and again like I’m also like this with inside fighting versus outside fighting like a lot of people nowadays say that inside fighting is a lost art but that’s only because they don’t realize that the principles of inside fighting are the same as the principles of outside fighting like just because you’re inside doesn’t mean you should just be bombing circular punches the whole time you should be able to fight inside and throw little straight ones you know you should if you’re inside you should be able to be you should be slipping or slipping and then Shifting the same as if you’re on the outside you just have less time and less space to do it but you should be doing the same things so with Orthodox Southpaw it’s the same the same ideology like if I’m a southpaw I’m boxing you I’m going to set my jab I’m going to set my jab because I want to tell you what distance I want to operate at you know like I’m going to communicate that to you or or I’m going to be lying to you about that maybe maybe I’m setting my jab too far because I want you to step in you know something like that but I’m gonna be using the the right hand the right hand which Orthodox versus Southpaw almost 90% of the time one of those two is gon to abandon their job almost immediately because they’re G to get very frustrated again at like the the bumping of the hands uh I tell my Fighters don’t don’t get involved in a lot of like lead hand play like don’t don’t do too much of this tapping and playing with the lead hand because you’re not now you’re working that hand but you’re not doing offense or defense you’re doing like a precursor like you’re flirting you know you’re flirting with their hand and hopes to do something else so you’re adding an extra step I tell them if you’re going to throw a jab throw a jab now we can work on the angle like if you have to come in little underneath to go you know under their hand or come at a different angle to go over their hand but you should still be using the lead hand the way you know the way a jab needs to be used uh and then again you know like semicircle stepping both ways like don’t don’t only go left what if the guy’s not looking for his right hand what if he’s looking can you imagine being a southpaw and only stepping to your right against Joe Frasier you’re running into the that left hook like it doesn’t you know what I’m saying like it’s a nonsensical ideology so but the core principle is adaptivity is being able to read the opponent and make adjustments like I don’t like my fighters to be like rigid to have like rigid ideologies about what they’re going to do if that makes sense yeah his Dynamic and things change you go be to be I think on your feet um and I think I think bil Brisco as well you know fighting is the series of questions and answers whoever asks the most questions whoever answers the most answers the most questions wins the fight you gotta be able to adapt yeah absolutely Controlled Chaos yeah exactly yeah about the L start of box you motion the inside fighting some people say it’s a lost start of boxing nowadays any other lost starts of boxers lost starts of boxing you can think of things you don’t see nowadays maybe something m m did you don’t see often use know you the angle fist the knuckle aiming the yeah proper fist formation is definitely something that that’s fairly lost and uh like I I still I don’t do it as I don’t focus on it as much as I did when I first started coaching it’s something I kind of armed them with later on because uh now aay when I begin a student I’m more focused on their body’s ability to hold position uh because and that that’s another thing is holding position like nowadays does anybody even have really a stance you like you see so many fighters who have like wacky stances that’s not really a stance at all uh and the one of the reasons why that’s important to me so when people ask me like who do I watch like who do I study I I I don’t watch Boxing a lot I don’t know why but nowadays making me watch a fight is as effective as giving me a volume I’ll be asleep in two rounds like I don’t know why uh I think just too much boxing on the brain for as much as I’m in the gym and as much as I think about it with my own fighters um be honest to watch a lot of these recent new Fighters AP from the big fights because I tend to watch more the old school fights anyway but yeah I know what you say that you all day and come sometimes he can follow like I immediately like I start like I started losing it like I’ll start nodding off but uh what I really what what really interest me is studying other great coaches from other sports and like guys who very quietly revolutionized a whole Sport and there was a running coach out of Kenya uh an Irishman named Cole McKinley he he trained so one of the top runners in the world in recent memory was David he had David rudisha from when he was little like when he first started uh formal school because he was the running coach at the one school in a city called Ean that produces like 30 gold medalists or something like that uh McKinley when he was asked there’s a documentary about him I’ll send it I’ll send it to you so you can watch it yourself but uh there’s documentary about him about his program and he was asked what kind of conditioning he has his uh athletes do like his strength training uh and he said it’s almost exclusively core and the the guy who was interviewing him was like really like why is that and he said well when the core starts to deconstruct like when you lose core stability as a runner you start running like this like you lose this and you start you start to wobble and the more you start to wobble and your head starts to roll the more the slower you go the more you can hold the the the the spine you know in uh how do what does he call it stability the keep the spine stable alignment that the word he uses for it you keep the head shoulders hips in alignment then you can keep your your your running Tempo much better and I had an epiphany when he said that I was like that’s what happens the boxers over a long fight they lose their stance and because I tell my Fighters that your basic position chin down chest up you know hands in front of the shoulders your your your basic stance protects you if you have your chin down well enough and you receive a punch the shock goes into the body and into the spine not this too much of that brain you’re gonna get brain damag sooner or later and if you watch you know a lot of the old school guys when they come at you they’re looking at you from the eyebrows so I try to train my guys always be looking from the eyebrows like if if you can see your own nose when you’re fighting someone chins up so the more stability you lose throughout the course of the fight the more damage you take the more it hurts the more it hurts so began after that I began like a really intense focus on their core strength and their ability to hold positions and that’s when I started looking into different muscle systems like stabilizer and flexor muscles and like what are exercises used to strengthen those and when you look at that it looks a lot like old school exercises that were that were done before weights became like a huge thing you know so most of the conditioning of my Fighters is based on their ability to one have endurance to finish the fight or for the amateurs to compete in a tournament because that’s another thing about amateur conditioning is amateur conditioning it’s tournaments are hard tournaments are really hard and by the third day we have five day tournaments here in the US and I mean I’m sure I’m sure over there as well but the national level tournaments are are fed day tournaments so how do you feel on day three you know on day three your body’s pretty much done boxing by and then you day four and day five you might be fighting the best guys you’re gonna come across day four and day five you’re fighting the national champion you know you’re fighting the the number one guy in the division so you’re at your physically most vulnerable and you’re in there against the most dangerous opponent so how do you prepare them for that and that’s when I I put like a lot of time and effort into their ability to hold position uh their ability to make subtle movements um when you say A Lost Art defense without uh running around the ring like being able to move defensively but in one step like only moving just far enough to get out of the way as opposed to the the Instinct of taking one step back and then taking another step back you know like trying to completely disengage like I try to I try to teach my students the difference between fully disengaging and stepping back for the purposes of counter punching because that’s if you disengage can’t counter punch so that those are just a couple of of little things that I focus on yeah very interesting I mean I know there was um a coach I was boarding for the U British cycling team I’m not sure if you heard about that one but he made them he made some very minor changes but they made uh they turned the cyc team around on being one of the worst the best in the world because they look for those things don’t they yeah I would love to know more like that kind of thing that you just said totally fascinates me like that I those are the guys that I learned the most from like those are the people I I will I will completely dig into that um so I mentioned my friend Sharif buera from Uganda I didn’t know that so okay out of Uganda they’ve had what um kasim Uma they had they had Sharif he won a World title they had Joo Justin juko and there’s a guy now I don’t know if he’s still fighting but he was a World level amateur Fazil Juma um yeah yeah he won the Commonwealth Games he won a he won the Commonwealth Games all of those guys had the same coach all of those guys so that’s like multiple generations of high quality Fighters and like those are the guys that I like to really dig into and look at what they did and I won’t copy what they did because you can’t you know like unless I physically sit down and have a conversation with them uh you can’t really uh you can’t really uh completely do what they did and you can’t really also you can’t really look at a fight just a fighter in reverse engineer it you have to get a hold of it’s weird but you have to find interviews of them or people interviews of people who trained under them and then like listen to what they had to say um Roy Jones Senor you know one thing I I say about Roy Jones Senor is that he should have been the American version of Brendan Engel because what he was doing was so different and outlandish compared to what other trainers were doing of the day Roy Roy Jr didn’t look like anyone he didn’t look like anyone or anything the the principles that Roy Senor focused on in development of his Fighters were just completely off the beaten path of boxing at the time but they were effective and I always say that had it not been for Roy Jr’s uh prominence in the sport and then that that they had a conflict and Roy Jr essentially buried his dad in the media that Roy Roy senior would have been much much much more prominent over here and he would have been our version of Brendan because it he had he trained four world champions like he had he had Arthur Williams he had uh Roy Jr he had uh Vince V Phillips Vince Phillips beat Costo Vince Phillips beat Costo in zo’s Prime how did he do that because he boxed in a way that ctia had never come across like he had NE never seen it before and Roy Senor also had like I don’t know maybe like 15 National or Olympic level amateurs I love looking at guys like that and looking at what they did and finding like just like little morsels of wisdom uh the one thing I was told about Roy that Arthur because when Arthur was alive I used to ask him a lot about what it was like training with with Big Roy he told me that Big Roy never used a a round clock can you imagine the gym never used a round clock he said for every time they sparred he only used a stopwatch and he would call the stop and start of the round and a lot of times he would stop or start it either right before or right after something big would happen and when I thought about that was like I wonder why is that and then the more I thought about it I started to realize that it was more of he wanted the fighters to hold on to the moment where they did something right or to be able to ponder and discuss the moment where everything went wrong and I was like wow that’s very unique like I’d never heard of that before so I love finding like little things like that and trying to Implement that in my own way so every now and again with my students uh I do something like that like where I’ll shut the clock off and we’ll we’ll box just based on what I like like or if they do something good especially if I see that they recognize that they did something good and especially if it’s a kid who doesn’t have a bunch of confidence like if you think about it like if they’re unconfident but they because you know sometimes like the the unconfident clumsy uh just fighter who has a hard time will occasionally do something brilliant like occasionally they’ll have this moment of levity where they they they land a a big punch on a much more experienced guy and then imagine now you have a stopwatch and you’re like stop okay you two get out and he’s left with that moment of God I really did I really did that right you know it can it can go a long way to building building their confidence so I like to I like to implement things like that I thought from a boxing um standpoint a lot of people s looking the chonway thingss how they became so successful and they sort of dominated boxing and they were similar to what you said they had a lot of different coaches and they Bill Miller there Emanuel Stewart a few others I know interviewed Al P who was from the K team the K and he men there melting pop coaches they had there so it goes back to what you’re saying about almost trading Fighters so there’s always more than one Viewpoint and there’s always one coach who who you could work with for a particular type of boxing or particular start of boxing so is that great melting po which we don’t don’t see that as much now in in boxing gyms but yeah it’s it’s interesting how how CL of how they dominated what their sort of methodology was okay um okay so so what are your overarching philosophies when it comes to training say how you balance the tradition we touching some of it by the old school method the new schol members so to speak so what would you really call your sort of philosophy of boxing what’s the sort a Cuban influence as well you you be trained by Maan who had link to all the old school trainers so what’s your sort of philosophy of boxing then how would you describe so like I said I like to think of myself as like a hybrid like uh Old School principles but in the modern era uh and I do like when when you when you discuss like what you were just saying about gyms having multiple coaches the and everybody being on the same page the the number one reason that I think that that should be a thing that should be a goal of any gym is to have a comprehensive staff who who all work well together is mainly because coaches should always be learning too like I feel like the moment I stop learning is the moment I start failing my Fighters so I’m constantly my program doesn’t look the same as it did 10 years ago you know and it shouldn’t if it does something’s wrong I don’t feel like I’ve figured everything out you know like to me that’s like the the the the greatest insult to my athlete is to sell them the idea that I know everything I’m not going to sell you the idea that I know everything I’m going to sell you the idea that I’m good at problem solving and that I’m good at learning as well um and then for the fighters themselves I don’t want to sound too cliche or too much like a fortune cookie but really the physical part is the easy part like learning learning how to box physically should be as easy as learning how to dance or how to play literally any other sport if if you’re in a gym long enough you’re going to look like you know how to box like you’re going to you’re going to look like you know how to throw a jab throw a right hand throw a hook how to slip how to side step you’re going to know all that stuff however knowing how to do all that and knowing how to fight are different are two different things knowing how to fight is very visceral it’s very cathartic uh it can make or break you as a person in terms of your confidence and my core philosophy again like not to sound too much like a fortune cookie is that you’re going to learn to be a better person overall like if you are the same version of yourself when you first came to me as when you left then I have failed then I didn’t teach you anything I didn’t open your mind it’s really about that because here’s the truth of the matter guys like you and me let’s say we do get what we want right let’s say let’s say I get you you get three world champions I get three world champions they all fight let’s say we get the the beautiful opportunity to see each other on a denone fight card on a Saturday night your three guys are fighting my three guys are fighting or my two guys and one girl or your two girls and one it doesn’t matter right does that really change our lives at all like if we get there I often think about that you know what was the end goal it’s like yeah you reached that goal and then what yeah where would you let let’s say that happened let’s say that happened let’s say Saturday night you had because you know what I know a coach who this just happened to and his name is Ismael Salas their gym is located in the same parking lot as my gym we have a very good working relationship on Saturday Salas had three Fighters fight on that tank uh the tank and Martin card right uh he had a guy poo I think think was his name something like that and then he had a Carlos adamez who one of my guys was sparring a sparring partner for and and another guy all fought on that card today Monday where do you think Salas is he’s back in the gym he’s at the gym our life doesn’t that doesn’t change our life getting those world champions doesn’t change a thing the way I descri huh that down yes he had him yeah uh it doesn’t change anything like and I tell my my students that I’m like you know if we if we were in prison you guys are like the guys doing 10 10 to 15 like you want to do your 10 15 years make your money go through what you need to go through and get out I’m a lifer I’m probably gonna be here till I’m dead so no matter how many millions you make it’s not going to change my life I still to come to the gym on Monday so that’s when I that’s when I realized that chasing Glory chasing titles chasing Fame is not my purpose what I what I what I what I real what I came to realize is that I don’t want to be that coach that 20 years from now when I’m winding down hopefully when I’m winding down I don’t want anyone coming to me telling me that they saw a former student of mine sleeping in a park or in prison so my main focus is helping them be better people and doing that through the core principles of boxing which are like confronting yourself in that ring you can’t run well you can run but you can’t hide that’s you famous Joe Lewis quote but that you cannot avoid your problems you know like and I I tell my guys I I I tend to say this to them when we’re standing outside the ring I tell them listen who you are right here goes in there with you you’re not magically Superman the moment you step through the ropes whatever weaknesses you have standing here on this floor go in that ring with you and what you better hope for is that you don’t have a coach on the other side of that ring who’s like me who’s gonna eyeball you and study you until I see that weakness because the moment I see it I’m gonna tell my guy what to do to exploit it and being as we don’t want that we have to prepare for that ourselves we are going to approach every fight like the coach is as smart as I am or smarter like I want that challenge like as a coach I myself want that challenge like I can tell you which coaches have victories against me I’ll never forget because I’ve learned so much from them you know Gil Martinez has a bunch of Victories against me in amateur fights um there was a there was another coach at toos who ended up moving to to uh Richard steel has a gym here he ended up moving there and he’s three and 0 Against Me O over time I don’t think he’s still coaching anymore which is kind of you know a shame because I’d like to I’d like to you know try to get the get that back but but at the same time he’s a friend like that guy changed my mwork like I I don’t do mwork in a standard manner because of him because I would watch his mwork and I’d be I was baffled like I was completely confused as to how he did why he was doing it the way he was doing it and then when he explained it it made so much sense like it totally changed the way I do mths which I don’t do very much all like I already didn’t do mits that much as it is we do more more partner drilling than we do M work in in my program but uh so the overall the overarching philosophy is to mature essentially like when it comes down to it that’s what that’s the end game is to equip them with this skill which I consider it a vocational skill you know like I tell them I’m like learning how to box is like learning how to weld you know like you don’t have to be a welder for the rest of your life but if you know how to weld it can certainly help you out so I’m giving them a vocational skill and then I’m developing I’m developing them as people to make the the the end game is that they know they learn how to make good decisions like at the end of the day that’s what it comes down to so s what about for boxing trainers and what would be your advice for aspiring trainers learn as much as you can like learn as much as you can I can’t say that enough our sport is plagued by insta coaches you know and I I’m not I don’t mean Instagram I mean like instant like I don’t know what amateur credentialing is like over there but here it’s very easy like it’s very easy to become a registered coach uh as as an amateur coach you don’t have to know a lot about boxing uh USA boxing does provide learning resources for for coaches who do want to learn more but it’s voluntary if you can pass their test and pay their fee and pass a background check well now you’re a licensed amateur coach um when I and then I don’t know if it’s the same phenomena over there as over here but we have like we have like a daddy coaching phenomena here where there’s like a dad who never fought who’s the primary coach of his son and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn’t uh but it became like a really prevalent thing where I I even I met uh parents who I met dads sent you know like I’ve only I think I’ve only ever met one mom who trained her son but uh dads who who trained their kids who were like I didn’t like any coaches I met so I became his coach and I’m thinking I don’t know if that’s like the right answer you know what I mean like cuz what’s your experience like what are you basing this on like would you do that in any other industry like you know would would you do that if your son was learning to be a mechanic you know like would you if you didn’t like the mechanic in you know the instructure the instructor for being a mechanic would you then say you’re going to teach him how to be a mechanic if you’ve never fixed a car you know like it seems absurd but it happens uh so this is not so this is so this is not coaches such as Danny Garcia’s dad teaching anymore Deon Haney’s dead is dead sons have G become world champions just saying this is happening um commonly in amateur clubs where they yeah it’s more it’s more than that yeah like those are the exceptions like most of the time that I see that it it it it has not the result is not that you know like those are those are examples and Devin Haney Bill Haney Bill Haney kind of like guided Devon’s career like in terms of but Devon had a lot of coaches over time like it wasn’t it’s not like it’s not like bill was like I won’t put him with anybody else no Devon Devon had the opportunity to learn from numerous people you know like who had a lot of great experience Mike was with him for a while Mike was with them for a couple years so yes he was together didn’t quite a few coaches I thought work together with Deon Haney right so uh I’m I’m more talking about like the living vicariously type you know like uh who then become possessive and controlling and a lot I’ve seen I’ve seen kids get hurt you know get hurt from that not not not that there aren’t kids that get hurt anyway but I’ve seen that have bad results but when I was asked to coach at tokos by a couple guys whose coaches whose coach wasn’t really paying attention to them uh before I became like At first I wasn’t even like really coaching them I was just kind of like allowing them to work out with me and just showing them stuff but when it came time for me to actually become a coach and Corner people uh I did essentially an apprentice ship because at some point the owner of the gym told me Hey listen I want you to go to Every amateur show because we’ve never had a representative present at every single amateur show so I want you to go to Every amateur show and and you’re in charge of making sure that the fighters have everything they need and in fact in my opinion every gym the gym manager this should be part of their job this should be part of their duties which is like if there’s an amateur show at another club okay you have you have your Club representative there it doesn’t all need to be on the head of one coach or two coaches we can do that but at the same time it’s good if there’s someone who’s not necessarily a coach because as a coach we’re thinking about our athletes you know like we’re focused on did did that guy bring his headgear did that guy bring his cup you know what I mean like so many little things that who forgot their mouthpiece that kind of do I have do I have all my stuff do I have where are my scissors do I have enough tape you know do I have enough gauze like hopefully all that stuff is taken care of ahead of time but the fact is most of the time it’s not always um but I became this like third party to like three or four tokos coaches uh here in the US you have to be clean shaven to amateur fight and I mean I can’t tell you how many kids we had to we had show up to weigh-ins with a full mustache and right away that dude you got to get rid of that right now or you’re not fighting so I’m always there with a razor here you go you know what I mean like here take care of that uh Lou I forgot my book I left it at the gym nope it’s right here I have it you know like that I was that guy for a couple of years and then it got to the point where uh during that time like only the after like the first couple times I went to an amateur club like that I realized that most of the coaches didn’t have someone in the corner with them so I started becoming like an assistant coach hold on one moment please sorry my son wanted to ask me a question um yeah so when I cornered with the coaches at the gym I I learned a lot and I started to uh become better at it and then I don’t know if you’ve ever had this or seen this happen at at club shows but sometimes the sometimes the coach wouldn’t show up like every now and again the coach wouldn’t make it so next thing I know I’m the head I’m the corner you’re like I’m cornering the guy you know like I know the kid because I’m the manager of the gym but now I’m cornering him and it was around that time that uh my my my wife now uh back then we were we were just dating and other Fighters around the gym they were like why don’t you just do this you know why don’t you just coach why don’t you just become that but had I gone straight into it straight from being a fighter I don’t think I would have been as good had I not done that two years where I was just learning from everybody because Fighters tend to be a bit self-absorbed uh different skill isn’t it coaching fighting yes they don’t tend to communicate as well and tend to be a bit more self-focused so they’re not used to taking care of someone else um it took time to develop those skills what about memorable moments What’s your most memorable moments um in your career as uh boxing trainer and you can’t before that as well well so I’ll give one as a fighter uh well I can kind of give a short version of of two um I let my dog out so as a fighter honestly one of my most memorable moments was the first time I stopped a pro in sparring uh was one of just reads guys and what I remember most about it was so when I would come to the corner I would always face the corner itself like I wouldn’t turn around and face the middle of the Ring I would face the corner because Mike would always be leaned over the Rope so I would stand you know like right next to him and he would kind of be like softly talking to me and I was sparring this kid was getting ready for a fight um he was a a couple of Divisions smaller than me uh was 140 uh I think he was uh maybe 130 pounder he was getting ready for a fight and the first couple sessions he got the better of it but that particular day I felt really on and I I honestly I didn’t think it was going all that great but Mike kept telling me Oh you’re doing really good like you know you’re doing really well between between rounds and then giving me instructions and then after the third round I came and I I faced the corner and like Mike like this to me and he he goes and I I turned and I looked and Jesse’s over there like this and I like I I got really excited and Mike was like shut up shut up don’t it’s like you know it’s like calm down don’t celebrate just go over there and tell them thank you and I did um so that that was like a really really memorable moment I had with Mike uh that kind of like culminated in in I I that was one of the first times I felt like I was justified in uprooting my whole entire life to come here even though objectively on paper I I failed you know like that’s being 100% honest I failed as a fighter so I do have moments like that uh and uh hitting mits with Mike mcallum with Mike Tyson sitting right outside the ring which was really weird and surreal because we were the only three people in the gym at the time aside from the manager at the time who was in the office and and Mike Mike Tyson has a tendency when he when he is enjoying himself to look like he’s zoning out so I’m hitting mits I’m I’m hitting mits with Mike and Mike Tyson is sitting right outside the ring literally like this and I’m like is this happening like this is this for real so that was pretty cool uh as a coach I don’t know there’s so many uh I had a there’s an interview on YouTube uh for any of your your your uh audience who might want to see this like one of my Fighters giving an interview on what it’s like to have me as a coach for this particular situation but uh we called him Cyclone mic so if you look up Cyclone mic interview and with the key phrase boxing it’ll come up um my fighter snapped his right thumb 20 seconds into the first round and when I say snapped I mean from from this part here it was like in half so inside the hand the thumb was completely like the bone was snapped off and I’ll never forget it because from my perspective he came to the corner and you know like so in the amateur fights my my Fighters don’t usually sit I I don’t make them sit I kind of like the George Foreman thing where we don’t sit in the gym so we don’t sit in the corner in amateur fights because they’re not even used to sitting so he comes to the corner and you know he puts his arms up and he goes broke my hand and I was like what broke my hand and I was like are are you sure and he went prettying sure and I and I said you use the other one and he was like and he said okay that was in between the first and second round not only did he win that fight he dominated that fight now it’s just a preliminary amateur fight it didn’t mean anything it didn’t mean anything significant but the fact that he didn’t even question whether or not he wanted to continue and in the interview where he’s discussing this he said it didn’t even cross my mind that I would lose like I felt so good and so confident that day that and after what I did in the first round I it didn’t enter my mind like that the possibility that I would even lose the fight just wasn’t there I just had to fight different like I just had to do things that I wasn’t quite used to but still had the ability to do this was a guy who I don’t know if you’ve ever trained this kind of fighter but he’s he’s hyper aggressive and the moment he starts throwing an overhand right he’s not going to stop that’s what broke his hand was throwing the overhand and the other guy went like this so his thumb like bashed on the top of the guy’s head and broke broke the bone in half uh so and and the funny thing is feedback from my other Fighters because there were like five of my fighters in the audience one of them who knew him very well like he’s watching the second round happen and he goes hey guys Mike’s jabbing something’s wrong this was the type of guy who doesn’t jab and he said hey he just threw a jab in three hooks I think his right hand is hurt so even outside the ring my guys could tell that something was wrong with him and he’s still like he he complet completely dominated that fight I was so proud of him it it it’s little moments like that you know like it’s it’s little things like that that make make this worthwhile you know uh seeing my son you know seeing my son uh get his first Victory and how he’s developing uh this sport giving me the opportunity to be the kind of father I never had like those are the those are like because I’ll be honest you know I’ll be I’ll be perfectly honest with you the last two years has been very difficult for me um financially like right now we’re in the middle of moving like we have to leave this house there’s just been a lot of a lot of stuff going on uh and it happened at the time when my third son was born so like you know we’re welcoming a new life and then there’s you know all this coming out of the pandemic you we lost all that time um but there were moments where I was considering quitting where I was going to resolve to uh I applied for the school district here to be a PE coach you know like because they start out at 50k a year so I was considering doing that and resolving to just being a School PE coach during the day because I’m kind of overqualified for that position and going to the gym in the evening and only training my son but these kids you know like these these students St like they’re the ones that keep me doing this you know like seeing the impact it has on their lives uh and I’ll give you something I read about um about Terence Crawford’s coach because the one he had a coach why I’m forgetting his name right now I don’t know why it’ll it’ll it’ll pop into my head probably but uh ma no not boack before him there was one out of that gym that had the the biggest influence on Terren who died uh I think not long after he won the title I think he was alive to see him win the title at 140 but um but he passed away uh I I found an interview of his wife it’s hard to find information about him and I found an interview where his wife was saying a few words after he had passed away and she said you know I thought that my husband did this like honestly I just considered it silly you know like he spent all this time in these sweaty gyms with these kids you know teaching little kids how to punch each other in the head and like I didn’t think anything of it and then when he died I saw 40 grown men cry she said I’ve never seen two grown men cry at the same time 40 grown men a lot of them Fighters like battle hardened men weeping and that’s when I when it really hit me how important he was to the people that he did this with and it’s like I I kind of that kind of really put it into me that it’s more about the impact we have on the students you know like that’s what keeps me going so every single moment I get with them is if it makes all of it worth it yeah I mean as as coaches for us to train them from scratch and to see him step into the ring um you and how much how far they’ve come I think these things matter more to us than um someone who’s not a coach that they understand um if is you like you said people grow up and you’re a big part of that and you and you’re a big part of their lives in the future even when we’re long gone you know our work because they may not become a boxer but the skills they’ve learned with you this this thing they’ve learned it will help them succeed in other parts of their lives so you’ll always be a part of These Guys these kids who train I think some people just don’t understand you know how much that means to us so while we coach oh his his name I just remembered it was his name was mij Miner mij Miner yeah that was that was that was the guy um actually threw Terren out of the gym when he was seven yeah yeah cuz apparently apparently teren said he was very high energy kind of add type of kid and just playing around too much and mijch told his dad hey you got to get him out of here he said his dad and his uncles worked out at that gym it’s like you got I can’t do anything with this kid and they he brought him back when he was nine and teren said that him and mij looked at each other and he kind of gave mij a bit of a dirty look and M started laughing and he started laughing and he’s like that was the moment that you know like cemented our relationship that from that point on I knew everything was going to be cool and mij is the one that brought him up yeah and see that’s another thing like how many of these these Wizards get buried in history you know like again we don’t do it for the glory but people should know who who that kind of impact you know on these guys uh I I read another interview with um Adrien Boner Adrien Broner’s coach and they were asking him if he if he how he felt about Floyd senior’s influence you know because Adrian was you know trying to trying to do the do the shell and like if he kind of felt like uh overshadowed by Floyd or or any the questions almost seem like they were designed to to elicit a reaction of him comparing himself to Floyd and he said listen I don’t compare myself to Floyd because we’re completely different people like it we’re completely different types of coaches he said you know no no disrespect to Floyd but people get off of trains and planes to to to train with Floyd he he he can do that he can afford to be who he is at this point in his life because people get off of planes and trains to go see him and pay his price to to learn that from him and that is what it is he said but that’s not me he said I’ve always been that kind of coach that every in my city in in Ohio in Cincinnati where I’m from every drug dealer in the ghetto knows who I am and you know what when they see me walking down the street they say hey that that’s coach don’t mess with him he’s here to pick up my nephew he’s like that I’m I’m that coach that goes into the trenches to find my students you know like that that’s me and we’re we’re different like we’re completely different so I do what I do he he does what he does and right now I’m I’m that trench type of Coach you know like I have two kids who whose parents can’t bring them to the gym that I pick up every day on the way to the gym you know like I have a minivan so I take my two My Three Sons because I have to take my baby with me now and pick up those two kids and go over to the gym and the fact of the matter is if I had a bigger vehicle I’d probably pick up more because I want to be able to do this for as many kids that need it a lot of lot of unsung heroes in the sport isn’t there yeah great well that’s that’s all the questions I’ve had for you there there anything else you want to want to add um you know so I guess I will finish with hitting on the idea of what I was saying about that we all need to keep learning um the moment I I say like the moment you stop learning you start dying so in the future if I get a if I get to open a gym here which is the endgame goal what I what I want to do over time is hold seminars and have have guys like yourself come out and and see in person how we do things trade that knowledge trade information you know like have you spend a week or two in our gym where you know you can soak up everything like I want our sport to to grow like that like I’m tired of of a lot of the cattiness you know like a lot of the you’re trying to steal my guy like I mean it happens and yeah there’s guys out there who are who do do that but to me if somebody can actively seduce your fighter you don’t want that fighter you know what I mean like you don’t want that guy like if that guy’s going to jump ship at the first at the first time someone Whispers something sweet into his ear you don’t you don’t want that um to the fighters also learn as much as you can learn with your coach you know like uh if your coach is learning to roll with it ask questions keep all lines of communication open like my my students know they can ask me almost anything like no such thing as a bad question you know like uh growing learning together uh we are part of something that’s bigger than us like we can only affect it for a period of time the greatest can affect it kind of forever but not always I mean there’s gonna come a day where Eddie futch’s name stops being said you know like may not be today may not be tomorrow but it’s it’s it’s sure to happen so instead of uh like I said like going back to what I call myself old school I can’t I’m because I’m here I’m here now I’m just trying to be the best modern coach that I can be and using that to learn from it and bring it and you know keep keep relevant principles into this day and age you know and the fighters uh you the number one thing that you have to do to be successful in this sport the number one thing is show up keep showing up you know you know like and I’m not saying that you have to stay with a coach like if you’re getting beat up a lot or whatever I’m not saying you can’t make a decision about that but I there there I’ve had talented fighters who quit the fastest like I’ve had talented fighters who the moment some and when I say talented I mean the common idea of what talented means they’re strong they’re fast they hit hard they they they naturally do everything well turn out to be the most mentally weak and the most emotional vulnerable and the hardest to keep consistent whereas I’ve had mediocre fighters who like they don’t do anything special but they show up every day and five years later they’re the most dominant one in the gym you know what I mean like I have one like that right now like he’s if I used to have to yell at this kid to throw punches I used to I would stop around and say if you don’t throw a punch get out of the ring cuz like it’s been two minutes and you you have not thrown a single punch if you’re if you don’t want to do this it’s okay just get out the ring right now he’s the most dominant fighter I have so remember that you’re you’re you’re on a path like the way I tell my guys is being a good fighter is like it’s like we’re driving on the highway to a certain city being a good fighter is that City and we’re on the way to that City the only way to not eventually get there is to get off if you get off the highway then you can’t get there or you can but you know you might have to go it might take you a way longer than you need to but keep learning keep showing up those are the two most basic most basic things I think it comes down to yeah I mean it’s it’s it’s one of the reasons why I do this why I interview coaches it’s because I learn every time as well learning from people more experience than yourself that have been around great Fighters um so for me yeah every time I I speak to speak to a coach like your I learn and that’s that goes with what you’re saying you got to keep learning and now we’re sharing the knowledge as well you get absolutely but that’s the best thing about it isn’t it [Music]