Neil Oliver (@Neil-Oliver) is a Scottish broadcaster, host of the podcast Neil Oliver’s Love Letter to the World and The Neil Oliver Show on GB News in the UK.
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Chapters:
00:00 Neil Oliver
01:07 Conspiracy theorist
10:07 The Great Sorting (COVID)
18:29 What does Democracy really mean?
29:49 Being slandered by the Left is a badge of honor
42:48 The corruption of the media in the UK
48:48 The Scottish hate speech law
1:01:54 Trump and Brexit
1:12:38 Are we heading towards revolution?
1:29:48 Has the American Republic fallen?
1:35:02 The banks
1:48:05 The hero’s journey
I find it really strange that people are unable to make that distinction between regimes and populations. Well, why is that? Well, if you’re angry with with the Putin regime. Okay, but why would that automatically make you say that you hate Russians, but also compare 140 million of them. You can dislike Macron, and like French people. Why can’t people make the. Why do you have to be at war with an entire population just because you don’t like the Russians? Same. But moreover, I can like or dislike anyone I want because I’m an adult man and I’m not a slave so I can have any opinion I want. We discriminate by nature. It’s in our nature to discriminate. So it’s my birthright. Like I you can’t tell me who I have to like and dislike, and I just I’m not going to submit to that. Last night we were talking at dinner and you expressed some views. And I thought to myself, I’m eating with a conspiracy theorist. Well, I think if you’re not a conspiracy theorist by night. You’re not paying attention. You are often described that way. Does it? Does it rattle you? Well, I it was probably a time when it would have done. But. I, I’ve gone through this, process in the last four years. Of realizing that I spent the first 50 some years of my life, believing and trusting a certain worldview. Yes. With Covid. And everything thereafter, all of that fell apart. It’s like picking a thread on a on a tapestry the whole thing just fell away into. And once, once you lose all of the things that you had taken for granted and trusted, then I suppose, almost by definition, you’re in territory that the others who are on the same path as you would, would call conspiracy theorist. But it’s really just. You think, well, if if I think now that they were lying to me about that and that and that, where are they telling me the truth about anything at all? Yes. And you’re you’re aware that. Some of it must be. True, but it’s a it’s early yet. I’ve only been in this revelatory process. You know, the scales have only fallen from my eyes, my naive trust that I placed in, in the establishment and in the institutions that I placed in them without really thinking about it terribly much. Well, you were part of the establishment. You worked for BBC? Well, I worked for BBC. In as much as I was doing contract work for BBC, so. But I was never directly employed by the British Broadcasting Corporation. I was, you know, I’d be brought in to do a project, I would be a production company, would pitch a project, I would be the presenter that was associated with that project, and I would be paid by the day for the duration of the project, and then I wouldn’t be working for the BBC. I’m just saying that people watched you on BBC. Yeah, I’m sure, I’m sure they did. I wrote a column for the Sunday Times in Scotland. I was the I had been for a while the president of the National Trust for Scotland. I was, I was at one stage I was a fellow of the, of the Royal Society of Edinburgh. So I was I was certainly associated with and part of, the nfrastructure of the establishment. That’s absolutely the case. But I did all of it. I quite I hold my hands up and say I did it with in a naive way, without really. Interrogating the integrity of those institutions. It was just, I’m not judging you. I’ve been there. I just, I just trusted I just trusted that. Well, I’ve never been I’ve always been a political atheist. Yes. Struggling to vote in general elections, but usually trying to vote for someone to to make plain that I was taking part in the democratic process. But I. I never had I’ve never been affiliated to any political party, any ideology. But I, I think I thought that the, the powers. That be. Had mine and my family’s interests at heart, whether they were red or blue. Of course. Or whatever, I thought. Basically. They’re going to keep the lights on. They’re going to make sure food and supermarkets don’t maintain the roads. There’ll be schools open. They’ll be a hospital if my family needs it regardless. But now I just don’t feel like, well, I now know that the establishment doesn’t have mine or my family’s interests at heart, and that’s hard. It’s like a grieving process, I think. Yes. The analogy I would make with that, you know, the five stages of grief that were supposed to go through the shock, the the denial, the, you know, the bargaining, you know. The anger, the various stages. That you’re supposed to go through. I’m still, I’m probably four years in just coming to that point where I’m making peace with the fact that I it’s it’s my responsibility that I didn’t see the reality. Yes. That’s me. So for a while I was angry with them. And I still am angry with them. But the baddies are just baddies, you know, baddies do what baddies do. My problem is that I feel that it’s my fault. I should have seen that I should have. I’m with you. I should. Have said. How could I have been so stupid? So I just think it’s really interesting that, you know, there’s an overwhelming amount of evidence to support what you just said, that the people in charge do not have your or your family’s interests at heart at all. In fact, they’re working against those interests day and night for whatever reason. I don’t think any honest person can deny that at this point. For years in. Why? Well, compound question. What percentage of your friends in 2020 arrived at the same conclusions you have arrived at? And what’s the difference between you and those who didn’t admit what was happening? I would see I’ve lost touch with. Everyone from. Really? Everyone? Well, you know, I’m still obviously I’m still my family. And that’s the family into which I was born. And also my my married family, my, my my in-laws. We’ve all remained as close as we ever were. Although, you know, there were differences of opinion about whatever Covid was about the about the, the products, the jobs and so on. So there were differences of opinion, but it didn’t cause. Any. Ill feeling or any, any schisms there that so those people are still fully we’re still it’s all very loving and close. Yes. But work colleagues, friends, you know, people that I had known in some instances from university days, people that I’d work beside broadly, broadly, I’ve lost touch with all of them. There’s a handful of people of literally a, you know, count on the fingers of one hand, the people that, as it turns out, ended up with all of the same suspicions and have ended up every bit as conspiracist as me. But as I’m sure you would testify. Oh, well, I, I don’t know. I’m not going to I’m not going to, you know, prejudge your experience. But, those people that that, that I parted company with, that void has been filled, that vacuum drew into a whole other. Cast of people, in many cases. Very unlikely and unexpected. It was very it was true. And I, my wife and I, we would laugh about, you know, hear you on the phone. Two of you just come off the phone from now, I would say. And it would, it would seem so bizarre and so. Unlikely. People that a few years ago would never have imagined I would ever have a conversation with. Not that any particular reason, but I just didn’t expect to be pulled into their orbit or them into mine. So. I’ve been through this process of of shedding one carapace, feeling very exposed, I suppose, like something that has cast out like a crab without its shell until the shell hardens again, you know, some very raw nerves jangling. But now that it’s forming again, and I would say I was to torture that analogy a little bit, I feel a little bit bigger, you know, I feel as if I have grown because I wouldn’t go back if I could press a button and make the Covid debacle not have happened, I wouldn’t, because the what I’ve learned and what I feel I know, understand or. Or at least. That which I think I know have enough. Wit to ask. The relevant questions to better understand. I wouldn’t exchange where I was for where I am. No. So back to a shallow, dishonest life. I, you know, and I did. I lost all those. Affiliations that I had, you know, because of the kind of, television persona that I had when I was making soft history and archeology documentaries. You get invited to be patron of this representative of that, you know, just people want affiliation with you. So, you know, I was I was connected combat stress, which was a veterans charity, and I was connected to, you know, the the Association of Lighthouse Keepers. And is that a big. One in Scotland? You know, it’s a very fringe little group that people that look up the like group. You know, the lighthouse keepers. And, and as I say, you know, I had a, had a, I had an agent and I had, I had a column in the Sunday Times. I had been the president of the National Trust. I was a fellow of the Royal Society and all of that. I’m not. Anymore. I’m not any of those things anymore. They all distanced themselves from me one by one, like dominoes, dominoes toppling. And it hearts at the time. Or the first one does like the first punch in the. Face. You know, you never get you know every punch you get thereafter is saw, but it doesn’t have the shock value of the of the first one. And so once but parted company with the one guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can see that coming. And it’s just a it’s just a process that I’m glad to be on for me. For us, my family. I’ve been this is I think of this is the great sorting. I mean, under this immense downward pressure exerted on the West over the last four years, people sort of wound up on one side or the other. And it’s not a clean political divide. It’s not even a political divide, as you’ve pointed out. It’s not left, right, you know, laboratory, whatever. But I’ve never figured out and I’ve thought about it a lot. What is it in people that. Compel them to move to one side or the other, particularly to the side you’re on. You said it’s unlikely people do. You never thought you’d be talking to you. Like, what do they all have in common? It’s a question that, you know, Trudy and I and and others in a small group of of of like minded people, that is the $64,000. Okay. So you’ve thought about. This as they used to say, what is the what’s the common denominator? What’s the unifying. Feature? I don’t really know. I think it’s I think in there has been a great sorting. I think this what happened in 2020, 2021. The choices that we were invited to make, you know, pick a side, are you going to be with us or not? And a large number of people decided to be with the part to remain part of the main. The liars and the other people pulled back from it. This was the great sorting of our generation. Yes. The first big sorting that that there has been for decades. And I think in some of it I think, was simply down to people’s natural, you know, amygdala fight or flight response to threat. I think some, you know, people you don’t know until whatever the gunfire starts. Exactly right, whether you. Can’t predict it and you. Think you’re brave. Yeah. And you know, and, you know, people like, you know, people at Jordan Peterson, you know, have articulated it very well that the, the culture of movies that we would all invite you to watch growing up, you’re invited to think in World War Two, you’d have been with the French Resistance. Of course you would have. You would have. You would have hidden your neighbors because the black van was outside going to take them away. That’s that’s how people are invited to think that they would be the maverick. You would be the one that stands in the face of the of the of the tide. And and then it happened before people realized what had happened. They had been. Sort it in that way. And, and I think. The, the really. Part of what’s really difficult now is that there’s no going. Back. And yet we’re all still living together. We’re all old, all the people are broadly still there. Those that jumped one way, those that that jumped the other. And we have to find this way to go on. Because we were we were invited. To see what some, what a. Lot of people were prepared to. Do I one of the most. Difficult parts of it, it sounds silly. No, because it’s really a detail. But. Quite early on, when the mask mandate was still very much everyone had to wear a face mask, and I was I was having to go up and down to London for work. I was flying home every Sunday. Morning. And it would be, I don’t know, British Airways flight or whoever, and I wasn’t wearing a face mask and under any circumstances, and I would go through the airport, which was difficult enough. Wait, if I can just ask you, just pause. Why weren’t you wearing a face mask? Would it be easier to do what everyone else does and be obedient? Yeah. Why are you so disobedience? Well, again, I was always. I was always a rule keeper, a. Lower biter. I’ve always, you know, I’m not I’ve never I’ve never been a protester. I’ve never been an activist. Anything. I’m very much a I’m a, you know. I just was always I wasn’t really paying attention as the truth of it. I just wasn’t really watching what was going on. We were making archeology documentaries. You. Well, exactly. I don’t think to me one. But to get back to the plane so we’d be awkward enough people watching in the airport. But then I would go up the steps of the plane, the crew, the the cabin crew would be masked and they would say, you know, wearing a face mask. And I would say, no, I’m not wearing a face mask. Are you exempt? Some of them would say, and, I would just say, yeah, I’m exempt. Because in my head I was tough as a human being. I’m definitely exempt from this nonsense. So I wasn’t even lying in my own head. I thought, no, I am exempt because there’s no I agree. I’m not a slave. You turn right down into the body of the plane and be 299 people with face masks on, glaring, glaring at me. And I would think. It’s it’s it’s this. Close, you know, if if someone gave the signal to, you know, let’s pin this guy down in the. Aisle. Let’s meet him. Yeah. You could see suddenly you could see I’m actually at risk here. Not from the establishment, necessarily. Not from the government. In this moment. I’m just. Because I have made. Myself conspicuous. Yes, I have stood. Out from the norm, and anything could happen in the next five minutes. And I’d have to do the long walk down to my seat 27 or something, some middle seat. I have to get into it, and sometimes people either side of me would ring the service. They’ll put the light on, ask to be moved to get away from me. And of course they couldn’t because it was a full flight and then I would have to sit for the hour and 15 minutes or whatever of the flight back up to Edinburgh as pariah. And then go off the way and head. And then rinse and repeat. Do it next week. Do it next week. Do it next week, didn’t it? And that’s just I set like I see. That’s a silly anecdote. It’s not silly at all. It’s totally real. And then. Suddenly, suddenly I saw people and it isn’t conscious. You could suddenly see how things happened. Questioned you, I thought, I wonder how you got that. To happen in Germany in the 30s. I wonder how they got that to. Happen in the terror in France, in the, you know, at the. 1989. Yeah. 18th century. I wonder how they got that to happen in Russia. Well, I do ask myself that anymore. Because you think, oh. You may have come to the obvious conclusion that the real debate is not between Republican and Democrat or socialist and capitalist. Right left. The real battles between people who are lying on purpose and people who are trying to tell you the truth. It’s between good and evil, it’s between honesty and falsehood. And we hope we are on the former side. That’s why we created this network, the Tucker Carlson Network, and we invite you to subscribe to it. Go to Tucker carlson.com/podcast, our entire archive. Is there a lot of behind the scenes footage of what actually happens in this barn when only an iPhone is running? Tucker carlson.com/podcast? You will not regret it. So you said that in public. You said famously something close to what you just said, which is, oh, now I understand how totalitarian movements, you know, sort of move downward into the population. And the population by and large, supports some genocidal agenda that normal people wouldn’t support. But they do support it. And you said that and you were attacked as a bigot for saying that. Oh, yeah. But but you must have you must. Have been on the. Same. You must surely you were getting that. You know, you what was your experience? Don’t pay any attention at all. So I’m sure I’ve been called every name. I don’t care, you know, at all. But, I had checked out mentally, for sure, but. And what is it about? Why, you know, you’ve clearly been. More, sort of, I suppose, bullheaded, stubborn about things and being prepared to stand in the face of things for longer than me. So what’s, you know, what’s in when you would. Ask me, what did I think was the common what was it? What was the common denominator? What was uniting all of the people that were refusing to go along with it? What’s it in? What do you think? Well, I. Just grew up in a different way, so I just knew that, you know, the majority opinion was not always right. I always felt that. And I knew that I didn’t care what people thought of me, except the people I love, just because of the way I grew up. And. So it was it was not hard for me at all to take a position that is different from everyone else’s. I only care about, you know, the people directly around. So that’s just my temperament. But then the plight of, you know, a concept like, you know, democracy, we talk a lot. We were brought up in the West to talk about democracy and liberty and freedom and rights. What do you what’s your take on the reality of what democracy even means? No, because for me, up, I have been forced through a process of thinking about what. Democracy even is. And wondering what it is that we had that we called democracy, and certainly wondering what it is that we have no fear, nothing of that which we know. Democracy, at least in my view. I mean, it’s been redefined to mean democracy is a system of government in which the people in charge, whether the elected officials, the agency heads, the people who run well-funded NGOs when their views are represented, even though they may constitute 2% of the population’s views, when those views are represented, when they’re fully in charge, you can do whatever they want. That’s democracy. That’s not my view of democracy. My view of democracy is much more primitive, kind of the peasant view of democracy, which is it’s a species of private property. It’s ownership. I am a citizen of this country. I was born here. So when my parents and I therefore have a share in this, I’m a shareholder in the company in the country. Like I own part of this mine, actually, now I own 1/350,000,000 of it, but it’s still ownership. It’s still a share. And you can’t, treat me like a slave or even your servant because I. This is my place. And that’s where I think democracy is. It’s almost like a temperamental. It’s it’s a description of a of the certain worldview that you have about your government and your relationship to that government. So, that’s how I feel about it. It doesn’t mean that if 51% of the population wants something, it gets it every time. We have a representative democracy, a constitutional republic, as I’m often reminded. But but basically, if you have a system where the people in charge don’t care at all about what the population thinks, we know for sure that’s not democracy. I mean, what did you think it was? Well, as as you just said, I. You know, in a, in a in a state of semi slumber, just imagined that I was represented in the, in the places of. Power. By, you know, by the fact that I was able to vote and I know and I now realize that voting once every 4 or 5 years is is nothing at all. It’s a that’s a completely meaningless. Transaction to me. No, it always was. I mean, I see no way I was. Oh, God. It’s a general election. I better vote for somebody. I was always disconnected from it. Right. But no, I partly think that that may have been some kind of semi instinctive realization that it. Was meaningless anyway. But I worry now about a quite a lot of people. You know, around me talk about direct democracy as, as, as a solution to problems or and always it’s always the Swiss model that’s quoted referenda about this, that and everything, sort of everything about having a referendum about it. I know that having gone through the last four years, that worries me, because if there had been a referendum about face masks. Or lockdown or. Or, God forbid, mandatory jabs, we’d have got all of them. The the the majority vote would have enacted all of those things mandated jobs, longer, tighter lockdowns, your face masks and all of the rest of it would have been enacted by direct democracy. So now I think. That the problem you’ve got there is. The majority, the better hope that come to your conclusion. Well, because I mean, because otherwise otherwise you’ve just. If we, if we if we take the step of thinking that direct democracy is the way to get out of these problems, well, well, in short, I live in fear of direct democracy. So why do you think they’re saying that? I mean, what people leave out. I’m very familiar with Switzerland, of ancestors from Switzerland. Spent a lot, went to school in Switzerland. A lot has been there. I was there twice this year. I’m not an expert on Switzerland, but I know well enough to say conclusively their political system works because they have a Swiss population with certain attitudes that have evolved over a thousand years. And, and it works for them. And they vote, you know, twice a year and all the stuff. And the cantons have a lot of independent power, very weak central government, etc., etc. but that works with Swiss people. They’re changing the population of the West and particularly of Europe. So fast that you sort of wonder, like, what is that? I mean, the idea that, you know, there is a thing called a Briton or a Spaniard or a Frenchman or Portuguese people or Belgians or people from Liechtenstein or whatever, that there are sort of populations, indigenous populations in these countries that have a certain national character, language and shared history. All of that is being obliterated through mass by mass immigration. It’s it’s on purpose. It’s against the will of the populations, existing populations of those countries. And it’s clearly tied to political power. I mean, am I missing something? I mean, look, this is my view from 3000 miles away. No. Oh, without a shadow of a doubt. I think the same thing is. Well, you know, it’s happening right here. It’s obliterating the United States, but it’s harder for the for Americans to fight back against it because there’s no I mean, our indigenous population, you know, or the American Indians who aren’t even really the indigenous population. But whatever. They were here before the Europeans arrived, they replaced another population was here before them. But whatever. The point is, we don’t have kind of the we don’t feel we have the moral standing that say, the Scots would have. Scotland was never or has not been in a very long time and a colonial power. Like what? Why are they doing this to Scotland? Identity is a sense of identity. Personal identity. You know, the sovereign individual. And then that coming together to be, you know, maybe a sense of community in your town. Then and it broadens out to national identity is problematic. I’m utterly convinced that there’s a just a huge centralization of power going on. Right. You know that there’s a there is a, you know, there’s an anonymous, faceless cabal of people, whose names we don’t know, whose faces we wouldn’t recognize. Who are centralizing power. And for the first time, the technology is enabling that to be global. People have tried in the past, you know, whatever people have tried to be, have been totalitarian in the past, but it’s not the technology and and the and the reach, has never enabled a tyrant to control the whole world. But that is there now. And I think that’s what we are, what we are hurtling towards. And you know people and it Hofer in the true believer and so on. You know he he wrote so effectively about how every mass movement has sought to. Take away people’s. National identity and their personal identity. So they want you to they want you to. They want each individual to turn their back on their parents and on their family as being, you know, you can do better than these people. Their ideas are outmoded. You know. They’ve messed you up and you’d be you’d be better off without that influence. And likewise, they want to cut people away from their national roots, their sense of belonging in a place, and their sense that they are British or that they are French. Because once you get people deracinated in that we cut away from their roots. And the process is also about making people ashamed of their history, it their own family history or their national history. I’ve noticed that there’s nothing in the past but things to be ashamed of. So you get people to disavow the past, to disavow their parents, to disavow the family, to of the the nation as it’s been understood. And then those people are just some spreadsheet. They’ll just they’ll just flickering dots on a screen that can be put anywhere. And you have and I know you have a global population that don’t belong or feel connected to anywhere. And so you can put them anywhere because they have no roots. And that’s been tried over and over again. All the great faiths have. Done something, attempted something similar. All the great. Ideologies, all the isms, fascism, communism. Whatever. They all seek to do that to. To, as Hofer explains, and true believer, they all apply the same tools to get people disconnected until you’re just a a lone individual that’s ready to donate uniform and do something new in the face of utopia. You know, the nowhere place that is the ideal future that’s easy to sell people because it doesn’t actually exist, but. It what it means is total destruction. I mean, I see mass immigration in Europe as a form of warfare against the indigenous population. They’re being destroyed and degraded. Very obvious to me as a serial visitor to that continent over 50 years. And it’s gets worse every time I go there. Yeah, but I notice that the people who were from there, whose parents were born there, whose ancestors are a thousand years ago, in your case, wearing like face paint and skirts with spears or whatever. It was scary. Highland tribes, like, none of those people. Feel free to stand up and say, what are you doing? Like, no, you can’t flood my country with people from another place because they’re not Scottish and I am. And you’re wrecking my country. Why can’t. That’s not racism. That’s just. Obvious. And it’s also I mean, it’s also important to remember all the time that these people are being uprooted and moved in in their turn as well. Oh, I. Agree all at all. Everyone. And so, you know, so what happens is yes, indigenous populations are being flooded by people from elsewhere. But those people have been uprooted. Yeah. By this, you know, by by the same. You know, by the same forces of chaos and disruption. You know, the West has done God awful things to one country of the Middle East and elsewhere, one after another in countries. And those people are cut up and cut away from the roots, and they are on the move as well. So everyone’s victim in this everyone. And where people turn up in large numbers, where the, you know from a from an ethnic and cultural and heritage point if you don’t belong. But that’s also not their fault. You know, they’re they’re. Pawns on the board as. Well. And of course, what happens is that the people, you know, the resident, the incumbent population feel threatened by the arrival of the new and they get angry with the incomers when. Really we. Should all link our everyone should link arms and. See who did this. Like. Calm down, everyone just let’s let’s sort. Out exactly how this has happened. Are we being manipulated? Why are you why? Who’s moved you here? You know, so it’s important because that you fall. You fall so readily into the to read. But do you have that conversation in Scotland specifically? It was very difficult because of course. Everything and any kind of dissent, any kind of of raising a voice in that we, brings out the same predictable. Tools. From the toolbox. So you get you just get coal. You know. I’ve, I’ve long ago, you. Know, I’ve been I’ve been described as anti-Semitic for one reason and another, I’ve been described as. White. Supremacist for one reason. And another, you know. I’ve had all the labels. And, you know, you said at the right at the beginning, you’re, you know, known as a conspiracy. Theorist, they’re almost badges of honor. Like, if you hate if you’re not being tarred. With those brushes, then you’re not. You’re not doing your bit. Because if you you can eat immediately that old. Line about, you know, that you’re over the target when you’re taking flak, if you’re being if they’ve got to good, if you’ve got nothing better than to call you anti-Semitic, white supremacist, whatever, then you think, oh, I must be, I must be doing something right, because that’s just the same old, box of clumsy, blunt tools that get brought out to shout down anyone who’s actually asking important, pertinent questions. But we’re not going to answer them because we’re not going to give them the answer, because the answer will expose us, the baddies, even further. So let’s just let’s just dismiss them as. Is, does it racists. In Scotland, in the UK? Well, I think as I see, because many people. Are now finding that it’s a badge of honor to be. You know, I’ve been a, I’ve been a Putin apologist stuff at that when flung at me. I’ve been, all sorts of things just because I’ve, I’ve said, you know what? Jumping into all of these stories at the moment in the, in the third act was actually the expression that, Jim introduced to me when I had him on my show the other week and he said, you know, everyone was invited to join the Ukraine story in the third act. But, you know, there’s there’s pages and pages of all of this, obviously, before you get to. The Russian tanks trundling across the Ukrainian border, you’re. Coming in late. If you’ve. Joined the cinema in the last in the war, there. Have been a war in progress for eight years. And and I know it’s, you know, now it’s Israel-Gaza and everyone’s invited to like that all started on October the 7th and you know it did. No no no no. So so it’s all it’s all obvious. It’s all obvious stuff. And. Because those. Turn spotlights onto. Places. And stories and back stories that that the troublemakers, the original troublemakers do not want to be confronted with, then hence, you know, shut everything down. Censorship, labeling, you know, dismissing people as you, you know, well, whatever, whatever bad name they can think of. How long did it take you to get, to decide you didn’t care what they called you again? It’s again, it’s that thing about, you know, the first time you get punched, it hurts. But worse than not. Peanuts. The shock. But then the next time you get punched, that. Oh, yeah, that’s that’s that again. And I suppose, around the time, because I came. Into all of this, I suppose, or I was seemed to come into all of this, around Covid and lockdowns and vaccines for children and all the rest of it. But then, as I say, once I picked up that thread and then everything started to then the the big tapestry all started to fray and unfurl the the next thing that came up then was Ukraine. And suddenly people who had there was this loose. Coalition, I suppose, this fragile thing of people coming together around the Covid debacle and asking the right questions and being militant enough and. Seeing no, there was a cohesion. There. But that is as though the powers. Right. We’ve been rumbled on, we’ve been rumbled and Covid got let’s get a war going. Wars was a. Great. And then and so Ukraine started and a lot. Of the people that had been briefed, it was like it was like an awakenings, you know, the. Robert DeNiro movie. People had briefly come a week just. Went when the Ukraine war started. The oldest went back to where they had been before, listening to the propaganda, just taking the the official line, accepting the official narrative. And so I suppose it was when I started being accused of being an apologist for for Putin, I thought I’ve already been a. An aluminum, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy. Theorist. Anti-vax or, you know, granny killer. No, I’m a Putin apologist. Fair enough, I’ve I’ve seen the way this works and know that I’ve collected that badge like a scout. I can put that one on my sleeve as well. No, my Putin apologist and I definitely don’t. I really don’t care. No, because if you’re not being if you’re not being accused of being. Whatever label, then you’re not in the debate. I just reject the whole premise, which is that some group of people who really kind of hate you or have contempt for you, at the very least, can decide who your enemies are and then require you to agree with them. I’ve never had really strong feelings about Russia. I certainly wasn’t mad at Russia. Why would I be? They never did anything to me. But like Toria Nuland in our State Department decides, well, they’re our main enemy for whatever weird reason she has for deciding that. And now I have to sign on to that. Like I’m an adult man. I can decide who I like and who I don’t like. I don’t the whole idea of it or get on board. Well, I don’t know. Maybe I don’t want to. Like what? Who would go along with that? How could any adult allow some faraway officeholder, agency head, or NGO director to decide what their opinions should be? Well, your opinions as a father of three, a married man with a job like what you have to believe. Does that seem weird to you? It does seem. Well, it does seem. Weird to me. I think people are frightened. Of what? Of? Well, you know, I’ve as a as just, you know, talking about that experience on the plane with, with my, with my bare faced literally and, you know, defiance of that, that diktat. It’s extremely. Uncomfortable to, to. To stick out to, to put your head up, to be noticed. Yeah. Is I suppose, you know, actually, in. Answer to your earlier question about what would be a unifying, characteristic of of people that said, no. I suppose I had already had a. Long time of being recognizable to some people because of the kind of talent I have low level familiarity, celebrity, whatever. Some people would recognize me from television documentaries that I had made, and so I had grown a kind of a hard shell about being looked at and, you know, whispered about, noticed. So that sticking out in that way, I was already slightly familiar with, whereas I think. For for people. Who had had who. Had enjoyed complete anonymity and then it came to see the Covid thing and not wearing a face mask or asking questions about what was what the what their children should or shouldn’t put in their bodies. It’s very uncomfortable to to stand up and be noticed, to be visible. And so because I have. Had a little bit of a little bit of, I’ve grown a little bit of a callus. A little bit of hard skin about being noticed because I had I was a face from television, I suppose, made it that little bit less uncomfortable for me to then be spotlit about for the first time in my life, controversial issues. I’d never been controversial in my life. But at least I was slightly, you know. Slightly familiar with with. Being noticed. When you started to get attacked as a bigot, crazy person, white supremacist, whatever that is. How did the people you love, like, how did your wife react? Well. You know. We’re through this here. And to. Be right there. In this room and we’ve been 100% together on all of it. She’s never blinked, you know, from from all from all began. And, and so I’ve always had that absolute for, for, for so many people with a split happened between partners over some of this. I can’t imagine how awful that must be, because it’s hard enough. I can’t imagine. Imagine. But we are. We’ve always been 100% together on it. And even within our wider families, you know, we’re people, you know, to the to the jobs and whatever. There’s never been any never been any trouble difference of, you know, differences of opinion and people thinking what was the right thing to do, what was the wrong thing to do. But no rancor. No. You know, no, no, no. Shouting, no, nothing like that. And so I’ve always I’ve mercifully, thankfully, I’ve never been more grateful in my life for, you know, for, for Trudy because of the way that she responded to big change. I mean, if you’re, you know, if you’re married to someone who’s on television and she’s famous for. I know his views on the Vikings and everyone kind of likes you for that. And all of a sudden he’s being called, you know, a white supremacist. That’s a that’s a big change. Yes it is. But as I. Say, she just never blinked. You know, she didn’t blink. Well, you are blessed in the game of chicken. She just didn’t blink. She knew she knows me. She’s known me. Since I was 19. And you know, when it comes to being called things like anti-Semitic or racist or misogynist or whatever, whatever Putin apologist, she knows me. So she doesn’t have to wonder, is he. You know, because she just she just. She’s smiling at me. Like, you. Know, you’re just really, really for so fortunate to have. Oh, well. Well, yes, yes. Fortune. But we also, I suppose, you know, you have to kind of think, well, we. We, we probably, you know. Choose one another and then stay for reasons. And then you think, as it turns out, you know, this being, you know, this being a testing situation, this would be part of why I choose this person. Because, yes. One way or another, I think I probably knew that. She’d be like this. In a situation like. This, you know. And me for her, you know, we would just we just back each other up, which does make you very invulnerable, because this whole this whole process. Absolutely. In a way that’s cliched. You do get confronted with what matters, you know, and we’ve. You know, when it, you know, I mean, we’re. Just we’re very we we’ve. Been thrust into this from really a very recognizable and ordinary lifestyle. You know, we’ve got a mortgage and we’ve got, you know, and we depend on a on a regular income to keep the wheels on the wagon. Like, like, like like everybody else, you know, the. Vast majority of people and, and. So we, so we. Identify and have that commonality with, you know, sort of that’s why I think a lot of people, you know, write letters to me from all over the world, and they only stop me in the street to talk to me because, you know, I think they instinctively realize that I’m. Not a. You know, a credentialed academic and I’m not an expert on this, that or the other. I’m very much just a regular. Person with. With the same with all of the same concerns that. They’ve got kids, school, you know. All of it that people were, you know, were able to were able to identify with. But when I say that, I’ve been confronted with what really matters, you think all that stuff about, you know, whether you have could afford us whatever. I don’t know what, you know, second home. Or. Luxury cars or all of that stuff, all that cliched stuff that that people are encouraged to think about. You think, God know what? Really what really matters is spending, 24 hours a day with somebody that backs you up. I mean. And my kids are the same. You know, the kids were they came through the whole they were under pressure at the time to to take jobs. You know, you won’t be able to go to the gym or you won’t be able to go to, you know, you won’t be able to just socialize and be able to travel. And they were rattled by that. They were, you know, younger than, you know, they’re. Teenagers when all of that up and very, you know, impressionable and vulnerable. But but we got them through that with they didn’t you know, they didn’t they didn’t. They ended up choosing not to take the, you know, take the jobs either. And I cannot put into words how much that means to me that they didn’t get polluted with that product. That’s it. That’s everything to me. And never mind the fact that I didn’t, the fact that it didn’t go into them, that there’s no, there’s no, there’s no salary you could give me. There’s no, you know, there’s no there’s no bonus. You could bang me. That would that would make any difference. So it’s it’s all it’s all of that. And so it’s. Been it’s hard to talk. About it in many ways without, you know, without sounding almost like you’re patronizing people. But, you know, the the extent. To which I’ve been reminded about what’s important in. Life is worth. Is worth all of it. You call me any name. You want because I know who I am and you know my family, know who I am. And I can look at my kids and my wife and I and she and mine and think, no matter what, literally, no matter what happens, we we made the right calls. It does seem like, obviously you’re from a different, slightly different culture, than we’re from here in the United States. You it’s a much smaller country. It’s an island in the middle of a freezing sea. And there does seem to be a greater level of conformity in the UK than the rest of the United States. Do you think so? Is that how it strikes you. And is it does I mean, it’s a more obedient culture. You know, you never had a wild West. You didn’t have gunfights. You haven’t, you know, since Christianity showed up, etc.. But it it does seem like and I’m judging the square media landscape. It seems like you and Russell Brand, maybe there’s somebody at George Galloway. There don’t seem to be many dissenters. Describe the media in the UK right now. Oh my goodness. I have to be careful with my flowery language. Go crazy. Okay, well I’m appalled. I’m just simply. Appalled. The we don’t have anything that passes for in the same way that we don’t have any representation in Parliament. Yeah, we don’t have any we don’t have any, representation in the mainstream. Media that was like at all. Right. That was another aspect of what was so unbelievable and so discombobulating and stressful about all of this, because in the early weeks and months of what was going on from 2019, 2020 onwards. There was a period of waiting. For the. The people. The silverbacks of the media world to stand up and do what was required to be done, which. Was ask some questions, don’t don’t propagandize, don’t just give us the the. Government line and the and the pharmaceutical. Line and all of this. Yeah stop lying chat challenge. Who’s so that that incredible period of weight. And, every single one of them failed the test. All of them, all the mainstream channels, all the big titles, you know, the Telegraph, the Times, the Daily Mail, the works, the all they all. Swallowed it and pumped it back. Out again. So the the media is we don’t have a well. We don’t have a media worth its name. And journalism in Scotland, for. Example, had a proud, proud, proud. History of journalism. Dundee were really studied to be a journalist. A DC Thomson, you know, an iconic publishing name in in Scottish journalism. German journalism was the cry from Dundee. I’m a. Proud. Proud history of being, ready to hold to the fire the feet of those in authority and. Overnight either it had either it had slipped away and we hadn’t noticed. Yeah, there’s one exposed by Covid. Or or it. Or it slipped away as soon as the Covid debacle started. And then. And then. Realizing you’re part of that process of casting around, looking for the God, we can’t be the only people that think this is bonkers and ballocks. There must be other people like this. And then that process of going online and. As you see Russell Brand, God bless him, you know, he was already a he was an established podcaster. You know, he already was. He was already there doing other things. And when all this started, he was suddenly to the fore. You know. Asking those things is an understatement. I mean, he was from a completely different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no incentive to get involved. But when it was, when it was required. He was suddenly he. Was there and we were watching. We were consuming Russell Brand as much of it as we could get. And we were watching you and we were watching George Galloway on the mother of all talk shows. And, you know, these funny things, these constellations, you. Know, all the other stars went out in the night. Sky and a few suddenly all these new constellations appeared. And you’re looking at. You, thank God. Right. We can listen. Who can we listen to today? The who may have many points of view that in other subjects and other concerns I might not agree with, but. They’re certainly. Asking some of the right questions about. This. And, you know, so the new. Media. Stepped into the stepped into the fray. And if anyone. And they. Are people were surprised to see me, a guy that used to make. Documentaries about. Stonehenge and the. White Cliffs of Dover and, you know, in waterfalls and Purple Mountain. Majesty and all of that, if they were surprised to see me suddenly. You know, spotlit on a on live television asking questions about and refusing to comply with this, that and the next thing, if people were surprised to see me cast in that role, well. Not half as surprised as I was or what really was, you know, looking at you on how did this happen to you? How have you. Ended up doing this? You said, well, that’s a very good question. I really don’t know. But it’s like the bit in the it’s like the bit in the airplane, you know, where the pilots. Died. Of food poisoning and the co-pilot’s dead and all and some, some, you know, schmuck has to come from the back of the plane, but because. Nobody else is going to do it, you know, a lot of people were. Suddenly cast into that, unlikely into the unlikely. Role. And have taken the dog’s abuse for having done so. And their only crime has been to see how. Hang it. Hang on. I’ve got I’ve got a question before we all leap into the abyss of all of this totalitarian regime, I’d quite like to ask a couple of questions just before we all go. And, you know, and some of the hardest criticism has come from people that would have thought ostensibly would have been on your side. I mean, you live in a place where there are. I really don’t think the American. We often complain about our media, which is Stalinist, completely Stalinist. They serve the people in power. They’ll tell any lie. It doesn’t matter to them at all. But I think it’s much worse in the UK. That’s just my observation. I mean, I did watch some of your guys, you know, eating hamburgers and saying, you get a free one of these if you get your job. And. oh, it. Was. Totalitarian and dancing alongside, you know, you know, people dressed up as hypodermic needles. And I mean, I remember all of that, but. So. So yes. It’s it’s. But it doesn’t seem like any dissent is allowed in your country, for example. Tell us about the Scottish hate speech law. Oh, well, that I would say. That’s part and parcel of something that seems to be happening around the world in a certain kind of Western country, which is to say, either small countries with small populations or quite large land masses, but small population. So, you know, Canada, Australia, but, you know, places like New Zealand. The Anglosphere, the speaking world. But then but then something equally sinister also happened in Israel, you know, where, yes, where Netanyahu said, make, make my people the petri dish of the world experiment. On these here. Lab rats. Yes. So again, a small a small population with but with a, with a, with an authoritarian leader that just off hand just decided to do what you wanted. But that was true of all of them. So. And yes but Britain but then Scotland obviously has a devolved, administration, based in Edinburgh, in power in power to, to, to to take a certain amount of decisions separate from Westminster in London. And we’ve been under the, the. Thrall of of a. Of administration in Edinburgh led by the Scottish National Party for what seems like a thousand years. It’s been like an SNP, right. It doesn’t seem very Scottish to me at all. Well. I first got into I first put my head above the parapet and got into trouble as a, as a contrarian all the way back in 2014 actually, because that was the time of the referendum on whether or not Scotland would remain part of the United Kingdom or with striker as a, as a, as a separate entity. And God forgive me, I had. Kind of been keeping out of it. I was just. I had my opinions, but I was keeping it that relatively late in the day. Coming up to the vote, I think it was the Telegraph, but one of the big broadsheet newspapers asked me for, what do you think? Would you write, as, you know, a thousand words about what you think? And I wrote that. Well, to cut a long story short, that I would prefer to stay part of the United Kingdom. Cue the opprobrium from the nationalists, those who and because of. I had made television like the history of Scotland, and I had been seen as a certain kind of Scottish TV presenter. I think a lot of people made the broad assumption that I was probably nationalist in my politics, which I never have been. And, you know, never will be. But, but but nonetheless. So I got, I got into I got into trouble then and so I’ve been on the, I’ve been under attack from the SNP and its little wizards ever since then. So I have it’s, it’s, it’s important probably in the context of this conversation to make plain that it actually wasn’t Covid. I first got into trouble. It was it was the independence referendum. And so Scotland is run by, By low caliber people. Low caliber carcass autocracy. You know, government by the worst of people? Yes. And, you know, the the SNP start, you know, started out famously. Well, not it didn’t start out, but at the time of the referendum, it was led by Alex Salmond. Who at least was a. You know, he was an able surefooted politician. And an. A good orator. You know, so he had some he. Had some game. But subsequently it’s been Nicola Sturgeon and it was Nicola and then more recently Humza Yousaf. And now he’s fallen on, he’s fallen off his own feet and he’s been replaced by another one, another, you know, another non-entity. But it was Nicola Sturgeon through the, through the Covid debacle. And they just seemed to the rally they reveled in, she reveled in the power which she reveled in, you know, appealing every day to count death tolls and insist on the continuation of lockdown and cutting the six inches off the bottoms of doors and in school classrooms to let her circulate in scene. She a pretty smart, happy, well-balanced person. I would say no, no, no. Not always. But anyway. Anyway, she’s gone. But So you have. In the SNP in Scotland, people who are drunk with the idea of power, you know, they really I mean, the very idea that the people at the a majority would, would have put that bunch actually in control of an independent country makes my blood run cold. It was a close run thing for a while, but it’s gone now. The threat is gone for a generation, if not forever. But so the the inept. The carcass autocratic. And when it came to the the hate crime legislation. The what the the just. Seemed to go for one offensive, irritating policy after another. The attempted a named persons. Bill. In recent history where they were trying to insinuate between every child and their parents a named person that could be a. Teacher could be any figure that. That person would have been encouraged, and the child would have been encouraged to establish a relationship with that named person. If there are things you don’t want to talk about. Talk to, you could talk to this named person. And and your parents would. Never need to know that. Those conversations had. Taken place. This was the named person’s bill. It was eventually. Knocked back at the. This is an attempt to destroy the family. Yeah, well, that’s would certainly be. That was my. Interpretation of what. Is the other interpretation. Well, it was supposed to be. The government has more authority. It’s your home. Isn’t always it’s the same. It’s the same reason for, you know, clamping down on the internet. It’s it’s for the safety of children. That’s what they always see this. It’s about protecting children from this, that and the other one. Of course, we know it’s got nothing to do with that. It’s just about taking control of the internet. So the Named Persons Act was. Yes. But in line with that idea of it, if you want to lead a popular movement, you have to separate the children from the parents. You’ve got to you’ve got to put pressure on the family into the family fractures to the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, to finally turn back and stop the named persons bill. But it will be. It’ll be in someone’s drawer somewhere. Yeah. You know, you know, it’s still under consideration. The hate crime. Legislation. Which. So it’s. Important, you know, not to come in on the SNP in the third act, so. To speak, the long history of this kind of behavior. And, and when it came to the, you know, the hate, the hate crime legislation, you know, that was a pet project of Humza Yousaf, who was the sometime justice minister. He always failed in every post but fell upwards, you know, so he was you know, he was justice and field and got promoted up to health and field and promoted up to whatever, you know, one inappropriate appointment after another. And the hate crime legislation was his was very much something that, that he championed. What was it? It was it was well, you see. A manifestation of it in Canada. Trudeau has brought in similar is bringing in has brought in similar legislation. I don’t know if it’s called. The hate crime. It’s almost the same name. But you see, all over. The same thing is happening in Australia. The attempt by. These would be. These tinpot, dictatorial, politicians, to have control of the. What people say in. What people think. Humza Yousaf wanted to criminalize what people were seeing in the privacy of their own homes. So the idea. Was that if Mum and dad were having a conversation in front of the television one evening and said something, if the child inadvertently repeated it in school the. Next day, let’s see. My dad said so and so the police could. Come to the house hypothetically and say to the father, what was that you were seeing in this house last night? We’ve got. You know, your your child’s you know. That was that that was the level of it. Serious harms. I mean, that’s totally North Korean. I don’t even think that happens in North Korea. Actually. He’s gone. No, he’s. But is he considered I mean, he should be expelled from your country, for doing that in my. But what is he considered a villain? I mean, how could he? That’s so evil. Yes, yes you would. You would think. That any rational person would respond to that kind of notion in the same way. But look at the way it’s happening all over. It’s not just happening in Scotland. It’s happening all over. It’s part of a it’s part of a pattern of behavior of a certain kind of, controlled. Leader. In one Western country after another. You are demonstrably working from the same script. You know, it’s no coincidence that all of these Western. Regimes in these countries are taking similar steps at the same time, you know, they’re not they’re not acting independently of one another. They’re not all having these dreadful ideas independently at the same time. You know, this stuff is being is part of the same pattern that we saw during lockdown, where suddenly it was everyone was seeing Build Back Better, everyone was seeing narrow window of opportunity, you know, everyone was saying safe and effective. Clearly centralized success was a pandemic of the unvaccinated. I think we can agree. Yes, absolutely. That was that was a favorite. So but what is that what are we looking at. Who’s coming up with these ideas, these talking points. What’s the point of it all. Like I don’t want to be a conspiracy nut, but I but the level of coordination suggests that there is, you know, some sort of body atop all of this controlling everything. I mean, what else does. It feels as though. I think it’s getting harder and harder to overlook what seems like the certainty that we’re on the cusp. Of change. Yeah, yeah, a paradigm change. I would say that we’re being that we’re being headed towards feudalism. You know, most people. For most of 5000 years of human. History, most people pretty. Much live in a self in serfdom. Yeah. In a feudal state, you can, you can you can describe it any way you like. But it’s so narrow. Very, very small. Group at the top with everything, with all the castles ownership of everything and everyone else is has been so far beneath them as to be, insect level, and, and treated accordingly. You know that that is. What we’re going back to. Really up until the 19th century. It was it was the way. Of it for everyone. Everywhere, the we, the we, the kind of way of life that has. Been possible for some of. Us. A relative handful in the scheme of things, a blink of an eye in the in the great story of human civilization. A tiny, tiny lucky group. For a couple of hundred years. In the West were able to live lives of unbelievable. Liberty and opportunity and equality and aspiration. And, you know, if you if you wanted to, you could. You know, you know. Get whatever you were capable of achieving for yourself. Yes. And enough generations have taken that for granted that now it’s it has fallen. And people think that, you know, food in the supermarkets, lights on in the dark. You know, police on the street actually care about the people rather than being enforcers for the establishment. They think there’s been a misconception that somehow is just in the natural order of things, that society works like that. And just the merest glance. At the rest of the world at the moment never lies. Never mind. 5000 years of. History will show that the possibility of. Living the kind of lives that some of us have been able to live. For a very brief period of time is vanishingly it’s impossibly unlikely what we’ve had. But but too many people have finally been. Taking it for granted, one after another. That. No, that. No, the. No. Those who would. Return us to feudalism. Have saw. The opportunity and have been and have been working towards it, and populations all over the West taking it for granted. Being tolerant, being nice, keeping. Their heads down in return for safety and convenience. Have laid themselves open or not done, not. In a fit state to. Defend themselves against a well, well motivated small group that wants to return the whole thing to some sort of new feudalism. But, I mean, that’s not to say it’s too late. You know, I don’t want to be. I don’t want to be completely negative here. I do think it’s still possible. I think enough people have realized are realizing all the time. And I would say, I think. Wait a minute. Just one thing. So are you suggesting it sounds like you are, and you probably are, right. But that some kind of feudalism is the natural state of man? Radically hierarchical societies are just natural. Yes. Yes, absolutely. People enslaved. You know slavery. Is is a you know, is a is a is unnatural. State. Of course it just is. You know, it’s been it’s been a reality for so many, for such a large part of everyone who’s ever lived or died. Of course. Through history. But I think, you know, when, when in 2016. You know, when we had Trump. Elected here. And Britain voted Brexit. It’s subsequent to that. We’ve got Covid and goodness knows what all. Trudy said perhaps she wasn’t alone, but she was the person that I had to see it. She said those two things were not supposed to happen. They were not in the script. Somebody took their eye off the ball and allowed a figure like Donald Trump to elect in America. That’s right. And and for the population of Britain by a narrow margin, but nonetheless by a majority to leave the European Union, Judy said. Everything we’ve had since has been a sustained punishment. Beaten. Yeah. To put those populations back in their box. So everything that’s happened, including the evaporation of your southern border, all of that, all of that that’s happened has been. A panicky. Response by that, by a narrow. Group. That saw two things happening off script that were of great significance because it was democratic. You know, that those were popular votes. And now populism is being stamped on all over. All over the world. The tractors, the truckers revolt, a farmers protest all across Europe. All of these things are being mischaracterized by the authorities as far right as extremists as, you know, all of the same, all of the same labels, because in both cases, they. Didn’t get what they voted for. I mean, Trump was not able to govern. No. A very effectively. It couldn’t build the wall that he promised, was investigated and spied on from, you know, the very first day. And I don’t think you guys got Brexit. You voted for Brexit, right? 52%. I think it was 52. Yeah, 52 to 48% in favor of leaving the European Union. And from the moment the ink dried on that decision, the all of the, the powers that be in the establishment, in the civil service, all across the political parties moved heaven and earth to thwart that decision. And so it’s been Brexit in name only. But, you know, they’ve called it because it’s no worse. I would say that the situation for for those people that aspired to Brexit. They’ve got less. Now than they had before the vote happened because they’ve been so comprehensively punished. And and Brexit has been so eviscerated. The very concept of it has been so hollowed out that the people that wanted that have got less than nothing from it, because it was. Because it was, it was populist. And notice also that in the last 4 or 5 years, people has become a pejorative. How can people use the word democracy to describe a country? Well, we don’t that’s why I have these, these fundamental problems about we certainly do not have democracy. I wonder when democracy went away, I wonder, I wonder for how long it’s been. It’s been stunning. Your guess? I really. Oh, gosh. I mean, in my most conspiratorial moments, I think something began to happen all across the West. After the Second World War. Really? From the middle. From the. During the war and after the war, I think the moves. I do not know if it started then, but I think it was a gear shift. Have you been to Tokyo? Have you been to Japan? I have, I have filmed in Tokyo. So then you sort of wonder when you go to Japan if you go from London to Tokyo. There’s no evidence that one that the side that one actually won and the side that lost actually lost. Like, if you didn’t know the history, you would think, well, obviously Japan won the war. Look at it. Obviously England lost it. Look at England. Yes. What is that? Yes. I mean, there are all sorts of things that are confusing. I’m not a historian, I love history, I’m fascinated by history. My shelves are full of history books, but, I so. How many books have you written or written? 12 or 13. Some what? I think it’s fair to call you a historian. Well. But I’m not an academic. I don’t write, and I know what I want to be. I never really have had that. It’s not in my nature. I’m not really. Anyway. So it means that. I’m unprepared. I’m perfectly happy to. To be at home to, unorthodox ideas about history. Because I don’t have any academic papers. I don’t have a professorship to defend. Maybe that’s why you can see the world clearly. And I. Sometimes wonder if my if I. Have a unique, a USP, you know, a. Unique selling point. I think it may be. That the things I have said over the last few years. Everyone knows they’re. True. Yeah. It’s just that for whatever reason, I’ve said them and I’ve had the I’ve had the opportunity and the platform from which to see them and, and because I, I just a regular person seeing what every other regular person knows is true. That’s my. Show. But we’ve wandered. We’ve wandered off. What? I think that’s a great that’s. You’re qualified enough. You’re not an Oxford don. But. But what? You’ve been read about a lot of things. I’ve got basic questions. About the Second World War. Okay. What? What are they like? Clearly, something important changed in the West in 1935. What was. That? What’s very interesting to me is that, you know. Hitler and Stalin got together at the beginning. Yeah, of course of it. And when Poland was invaded, Britain said, we will do whatever it takes to restore freedom and democracy to the people from whom it’s been denied. Yeah. Stolen. And then what happened? And then Oliver and then and then, you know, you’ve only got to read any. Coverage of the Second World War to know that at the end of the Second World War, Poland was left swallowed whole by. Well, they handed it to Stalin. Oh, so so the stated, the stated objectives that the stated. Objective of Britain declaring war. At the time was. Well, you didn’t do it. You didn’t. You didn’t do that. Well, you didn’t even try. And in our country, it’s illegal to criticize Winston Churchill. He’s the greatest hero in. World. History. When you look at that, when you look at the murkiness that happened at Yalta, you know, between, you know, between, you know, Roosevelt and Stalin and Churchill and, and the fact that, you know, agreements were arrived that somehow where. Many people. Who wanted. Whatever you would call West. The West. They want it to be the West. They were just allowed. To be swallowed whole by the Communist. Bloc. Yeah. To the most violent totalitarian in history. So they handed these countries, they went to war to protect the sovereignty of these countries that they then handed. And people were being chased back across, across justified lines, back into that. What is that? Clearly. Clearly. So there’s lying here. So what’s the truth? So that we started we started there because we were speculating about when it all started to go wrong, when the when the slide towards, you know, NE. Of anything that ends in ism is the same. You know, whether it’s fascism or communism or any of these things end up with piles of corpses. You can’t get cigaret paper between these, between any of these ideologies. Yeah. It’s important not to be distracted by whether or not it’s National Socialism or communism or whatever. They’re all the same. They’re good for a handful of people, and they’re catastrophic for everybody else. And clearly, clearly, something shifted up a gear in the West. In the middle of the, in the during the Second World War and after, and has been moving faster and faster ever since. And but. I think. There’s. There’s been an extraordinary gamble taken. No. Because even. People who are who are in a state of semi slumber, like myself, were aware of notions like a social contract. You know that the. I was that we as, as a. Citizens. Would be represent you know no taxation without representation. You know we would be we would have our views represented. We would have our liberty defended. We would be we would be, we would be safe in peaceful countries. And in return for that, we would pay tax and we would submit to certain otherwise, you know, onerous restrictions on you can’t do anything. You’ve got to agree to be policed by consent and, and so on and so on. And, and that that’s okay. So there’s not a social contract. There’s a quid pro quo there for people as a reason for people to, to. To comply because there’s something in it for them. Liberty. Aspiration, hope, all of that being protected by Legislation and a constitution and all and all of that. The gamble that’s been taken now is that all of that is supposed is being taken away. Everything that the people, all the things, all of the inducements to be law abiding, peaceful citizens is being taken away. And what do I get in return? Nothing. You’re going to get a digital ID? You’re going to get central bank digital currencies. You’re going to live in 15 minute cities. You know you’re going to have your will tell you what to eat. Your your currency will be programable. So we’ll have complete moment to moment in real time control of everything you do. Everything you want to do. Now, that’s a heck of a gamble for for a very narrow group of people to take with billions of people, because there’s nothing in it for the people. There’s nothing in it for them. And I think I think they have fumbled the ball. I think that’s where there’s hope, because not 50%, not 51% of the people have realized that and would do anything about it. But history shows that it never it never requires it only takes 5% or 10% of people. To. Cotton on and do something about and make the difference. And I think that on the. In the final moves towards. This kind of neo feudalism, they have exposed themselves. They’ve gone galloping towards the finishing line too early in the wrong way, and too many people have seen it. And I think in in there somewhere is hope and it’s probably enough hope. I wonder, though, I mean, it does seem two things. It seems like they’re pushing the population not just of your country or mine, but really of most Western countries, right to the point of revolution. Like, how about we give you nothing and you shut up and take it? Yeah. And erase all hope for a future for your children or grandchildren, even having children, grandchildren. It’s quite a gamble to take. But the gamble is that the the technology is evolving so quickly that it’ll allow them to harness, you know, this surveillance state and various tools of violence that are so overwhelming that there’s nothing the population can do, anything could do about it. You know, drones and I are going to be enough to sort of force people to accept this. That’s how I read it. It’s possible. Yes, of course it’s possible. But I think it’s incumbent upon us to be. Optimistic that that that’s not what happens. You know, I think there’s an absolute there’s an absolute obligation. Beyond the right. It’s it’s an absolute obligation to be positive. I struggle with it. I mean. I have to be. Yanked back on to the path of righteousness by Trudy all the time because she is, by inclination, more positive than I am. But. But nonetheless, you know, I, I go to I lean to the dark side all the time. Well, Scots have dark souls, don’t they? Yes we are. It’s never difficult to to tell the difference between a Scotchman and a ray of sunshine. Yeah. As the saying goes. But you have to. It’s what? When we spoke. Earlier about. Being brought to. Terms with being made to confront what really matters. And it is difficult to talk about it in many ways. It almost makes a person blush because of the things that you find yourself having to say. But you know, the, you know, the Constitution of the United States. You know. The First Amendment. This it’s at times like this that these things are suddenly a. Light comes on inside them and suddenly everyone sees them. As though for the first time. It’s only because they’re being threatened that people see them. You know, the and the very, you know. The language, you know, the inalienable right. It’s so important. You know that. You know this. You get this at school. But you know, the the inalienable is, is to say that your freedom is not. You’re born with it. It’s there. It’s from God. It certainly isn’t given to. You by any person. And it can’t be taken from you by any person. But the third and most important bit about inalienable. I only really began to contemplate in recent. Years is that even if you want to surrender. Your freedom. You can’t because it’s inalienable. You are lumbered with it. You’re you’re stuck with it. It’s like your leg. You can’t. It’s it’s part of you, your freedom. And it’s when it’s challenged in this way and it’s under freedom. And people talk about freedoms as though it’s plural. It’s only freedom. It’s a single thing. And because it’s inalienable. It’s at the moment when it’s being threatened that people, none of us has any. We have an obligation to defend it. You don’t get the choice. If someone offers you slavery, would you be my slave? You can’t because it’s your inalienable right to be free. You can’t surrender to slavery. It’s not your thing to give away. And that’s it. That’s why some of this, I suppose, had to happen. People need to see the freedom of speech being taken. Away by hate crime legislation, hate speech, legislation or whatever. They need these things. To happen before the. Before you look again at what freedom is. What democracy might. Be, what it is to have inalienable rights. You know, and we we don’t have the option to give these things up even even if we’re broken and we want to. And these are I think these are profound verities. What’s the tipping point? What’s the point at which you won’t have optimism? What’s the point in which? No. You can’t. Good. Well, good. Well, you can’t, because that’s what I mean, as I say, because you’re you’re not it’s not you’re not allowed. You’re not. Entitled to give up. Because it’s in the nature of inalienable. Rights that you even if until death. You know, they can. You know, we’ll. Get, you know, you may take our lives, but you’ll never take our freedom. You know. The oft quoted line from. Braveheart mean that is just it. So there’s nothing to be pessimistic about, essentially, because the option to give up is not there. You don’t get to give it up. Do you think that totalitarians will win on us? No. No, they won’t. Because. Because I believe. I also think a lot nowadays about natural law. You know, if I read about common law, which has. Become an obsession, and I read about natural law and. Whether you’re religious or not, if you let’s say you just if you accept. An intelligent universe. And then natural law says that the intelligent universe does want the best for you. Unlike our regimes and our establishments and our powers that be. The universe is there for you to be the. The, the best expression of yourself and consciousness that it can be. And all of that can be subverted by evil. It’s a bit like a. If you can hold a bowl under the surface of of water for as long as you put the strength to do it, but the bowl wants. To be. Somewhere else, because that’s the that’s in the natural order of things. And eventually the totalitarians will run out of the strength to subvert the, the way that things are. Supposed to be. And you can’t it’s difficult to put a. Time line on these things. You know, I wouldn’t say that we are going to see the end of it in our lifetimes, you and me. And and it might be for our children to see the end of it. But it will. End. And the because the natural. Law will reassert. Itself. I didn’t add another of the things I was so. Sleepy. About in a state of slumber about, I didn’t really think about faith. I’ve always been. A person. Of faith. Quietly. I don’t go to church, but I believe in a in a transcendent, intelligent entity. And, I think that was brought. Home to me. And the light came on in it for me during this time as well, because so many people wrote to me. Thousands of people wrote to me from all over the world. This game started where people one one woman wrote a letter to me and addressed it to Neil Oliver. Near Stirling Castle, Stirling, Scotland. And the letter came to me. I thought, oh, that’s impressive. The postman managed to get that to me, and I put a picture of it on social media and without thinking, and it opened floodgates. And now I’ve had thousands of letters like these. And so people were writing to me without knowing my address. And the vast majority of the letters were about, this is a fight between good and evil. This is a fight between right and wrong. This is about light and dark. It was. It was that it was as fundamental as that for for most of those people that were writing to me and perversely. You know, in an upside down way, it was. It was becoming aware. Of evil. In the world around me that made me think that there will be. What’s the opposite of evil? There must be. Good. There must be good. Because I see the evil in every. You know, every, force has its equal and opposite. Yes. So there must be good. There must be God or you. There must be. Because I’ve seen the alternative. I’ve seen the adversary. Because it’s it’s it’s. Stalking the land. At the moment the badness is visible. And that was. You know, that’s part of the there’s a profound realignment that I’ve been. Going through, but it really is just an. Awakening. I mean, that’s a that’s a hackneyed term now, but being awakened. To see it happening to others around you. Yes. Yes, absolutely. More and more, more and more people are seeing it and it doesn’t you know, differences are never made by the majority. Not really. And that’s not how it works. You know, the the crucial thing is invariably done by the one or just. A few people who are right, you know, when you know, you know, when you. When you sometimes you’ll be sitting at a dinner table with friends and family and whatever. And you see. Something and, and the whole place just breaks up perfectly. You just say something and everyone laughs. And if you think it often, most often you didn’t. You didn’t even think of the line, you didn’t compose it. It was just there and you said it. And everyone laughs. Because what you said. It’s not just funny, it’s also. True, right? You people can instantly true runs through people, you know, like lightning. Through a lightning conductor. It just. It runs through you. And you feel it. And that I think that’s what’s happened for a lot of people. A lot of people are able to identify very readily with with. What’s wrong. Here. Which is simply an inversion of natural law that the evil has is trying to assert itself. Freedom is being taken from people from whom it cannot be taken, but with but with the ending of those people themselves. These fundamentals are happening, and I do genuinely hand on heart thinking of people think that. Just think it. They know it because it’s true. It’s it’s true and people feel it. It’s. See, I think what you’re saying is absolutely right. True things are. They resonate. There’s like a tuning fork inside you that starts to hum when you hear something that you know to be true, it almost doesn’t need to be explained. So when you hear it, you know it. But I think there’s a step from that experience to using the word God in public in the in the secular West. Are you hearing that more? Yeah, definitely. I definitely and and I feel good about it. And, and and I think part of why I feel good about it is because it’s, it’s coming at me in various shades. You know. I’m, I’m being. You know, people, of Christian and, and Islamic. Faith. Are talking to me and, and inter alia the, the mentioned the talk about everything, but we talk about faith and good and evil. And I hear within the within the Christian community, I hear from Catholic and Protestant and, and they’re all seeing the same thing because. The, the. The only important bits of any of those messages are the same anyway. And they’re all, they’re all. Again, it’s the truth. So it’s it’s, it’s striking, it’s chiming with me. It’s I can, you know, I can feel it because it’s evidently true. And so I don’t I don’t have any I don’t have any qualm about invoking God because, you know, I’m pretty sure I’ve. Caught the devil. It’s so interesting. Like, everything. Not everything, but a lot of things that I thought 20 years ago were, like, completely ridiculous. Now I was utterly wrong. And one of them, we were told for so long that Muslims are your enemy. And I want to say, I’m not a muslim and I’m completely opposed to mass migration period. I don’t care of anybody. I’m just against it. But. It hasn’t turned out that way. And I have to say, you. Galloway of course, Russell Brand. It feels like the people who hate you the most in the UK are educated white liberals, and it feels like a lot of Muslim immigrants are open to what you’re saying and agree with you. That’s my impression as a foreigner. Do you feel this? Yes, I do, because, you know. I think so. It’s often it’s much more important just to see a person first. Why, of course you know that. I know you know that. But that’s that’s the thing. And so I don’t I don’t always think about this information is coming at me from a Christian or from a muslim. Well, in our country, I mean, it’s a different experience. But after nine over 11 and I’m not I get I’m not Muslim, not going to become Muslim. I don’t agree with Islam. But we were told again and again, and everybody in the world I lived in seemed to agree with it that Muslims is Islam. That’s our enemy. I don’t know if you had that experience in the UK. We definitely have that here and it’s just interesting. But again, that’s that’s all part of that. Divide and conquer. You’re absolutely right. I just did not perceive that at the time. I mean, stupid well, you’ve made me think about it. You know, you you spent. Years in, in Washington. DC. Only 35. Not a big deal. You see, I mean, I, I hold. My hand up and say. I absolutely I grew up. With absolute certainty that America where the good guys I watched The West Wing, almost all of it. And I thought that, you know, as long as it’s Democrats in the, in the West Wing, you know, the, the white hatted cowboys are out there making sure everything’s going to be. A good God. God help me. You know that. I went, oh, Jed Bartlet well, fantastic. And now I think. Oh ho. Why did I ever why did I ever think that? Now you were in. The belly of the beast. What is it? What? What is it with these people? You know, these people that you know? I’m not going to name any names. You know, these people that have gone in skinny and come out fat with money, with lobbying and goodness and insider trading and all of the rest of it. So they’ve got more money than Croesus. And they’re still there in their dotage, still at what drives it makes these Chinese schools out there bad. So I didn’t grow up worrying about money, just being as honest as I can be. So I never really thought of money as a huge motivator in people’s behavior because it never was. What’s motivating these people? Oh well. Clearly money is part of it. I, I was just late to that understanding. You know, we all have blind spots and failures and that was definitely one of mine. I just didn’t I didn’t see how corrupt it was because I couldn’t imagine, like, I would never say something I don’t believe for money. I would never do that. It would never even occur to me to do that. So, I didn’t grow up like that. So the idea that other people were saying things they knew to be untrue for money, that like, I never I was shot. It took me decades to figure out that was going on. And you would hear people say, oh, it’s all about the money. And I’d be like, that’s bullshit. It’s not. You know, we just have different views, different ideologies, different worldviews. No, a lot of it was just about the money and I just did not perceive. But how much money can a can a multi multi-millionaire? Well I agree, I mean I’ve never been that. Well that is absolutely right. First of all you know getting out of debt, I do think it is a massive blessing. And if you can get out of debt, it just means you’re not controlled. And there is a inherent freedom in that. And debt is slavery. We love debt in the United States. We have a debt based society, you know, lending money and interest. That’s like the main thing that we do in the United States. I think it’s disgusting. I’ve always thought that, so if you can get out of that, it’s clearly liberation. But beyond that, like, is it going to make you happy? No. I mean, I’ve just lived around rich people my whole life, so I know that that does not make you happy. So if we accept, but if we. Accept that money is. But it must be more than that. So what is that? What is that? What is the. Because, you know, you one. Does end up with fewer and fewer options when it comes to explaining what’s going on, and it just feels. Like, you know, it. Does begin to feel as if it’s in the service of some kind of. Darkness. That’s what I feel. I mean, it is it is in this in the service of darkness. There’s no kind of rational explanation for transgenderism, you know, that’s just you’re sterilizing kids. There’s no upside that could ever justify that. You’re doing it for killing people, as you know, the US government has, I hate to say it as a patriotic American, but it’s been a force for for killing for a long time. What is that? And again, there’s only a spiritual answer. I think, to that question. I don’t see a rational one for sure, but I also think it’s recognizable in a temporal, framework as hubris. It’s the belief that you are God, that you have greater powers than any man actually possesses greater foresight, greater wisdom, greater power. And that is like the oldest trap. There is like that is the story of history is people, you know, convincing themselves that they’re more than human. And, and that’s that’s how you destroy yourself in the society that you lead, for sure. And so what happens was, is has the. So has the American republic fallen? And is it just something. As long gone? I mean, the second you allow an Intel agency to murder your democratically elected president, as we did 62 years ago, and then sort of ignored that, it happened to be like, I don’t think that’s really what happened. Shut up. Look, no, it’s not number. If you allow unelected bureaucrats to murder the guy that the majority elected, like just by definition, the system is not what they say it is. Obviously so. But I do think I agree with you 100%. And I agree with our, you know, long departed President Dwight Eisenhower, that it really was the Second World War in ways that I don’t understand. But it’s demonstrable change, the nature of the country to change the relationship, between the population and its government. Can I ask you a question that I always think about? But it’s a UK specific question. So 1914. UK, England, Britain, whatever we’re calling it, you know, is running the world. You know, and doing, I would say a pretty good job, not perfect job, pretty good job putting in railways and spreading Christianity and being kind of pompous, but basically being a fairly benign colonial power. As colonial powers go, there’s a war. For years, the smartest people in the country are killed for no obvious reason. The country’s really weakened by that war. The United States becomes a preeminent power in the world, by 1919. So it’s a huge loss for Great Britain. I would say the First World War again for no real reason. 20 years later, your leaders tell you’ve got to do it again for reasons that are clearly fake. Liberate Poland and then hand it to Stalin. That’s not the reason. Obviously, democracy is not the reason. And then the country’s really, like wrecked and the empire collapses and it becomes sad. Is there bitterness about that? Like, why wouldn’t that be the the bitterest thing that ever happened in the history of your country? Are people still? Do they talk about that? They brought us into two wars. It just destroyed us. All these cool things that we had, this great society that we had, we made the. I think there’s a I think there is a I think there is a. A lingering sadness. But what about anger? Like your leader said that there’s no reason to join either war. Well, the the people. Obviously, in my lifetime. Your lifetime, the veterans of the First World. War, they’re all gone. Oh, of course. You know, and and the veterans of the Second World War, you know, the endangered species that they are, you know, they are almost stolen on the way out. And so and so and once, once the, once the the people to whom it happened are gone, then that takes something with them. You know, we don’t we’re only, angry with what happened at one remove, in a sense, because the people who really suffered are gone. But but I hear what you’re saying. But I was born 25 years after the war. But, I mean, obviously, you could see. I mean, you could. See that Britain only became a second rate power after Suez, you know, which wasn’t until 5650. So so you could. See that we were for, for whatever had happened to us, got to see the First World War and then the Second World War. It was it was that it was that. Show in Suez and, and that humiliation, you know, with by America that that Britain became us. Only then I was dead. I was dead. You know, I. Would say it’s much I think you do make me. Think about something that’s not unconnected. I do think that what’s happening at the moment. We will not. Understand what has actually happened here. Maybe in 50 years time, people look, but maybe in a hundred years time, in the same way that I would say, you know, someone who went through the First World War, even if they were experiencing, even if they were in the Western Front or whatever, with the bullets flying and seeing all of the over the horror of it, we couldn’t, couldn’t possibly conceptualize the impact and the consequences and the significance. And the way in which you don’t live. You don’t live through a period and know that you might. Suspect. That the world might be changed forever as a result of the period that you’re living through. But to actually predict what will be the. The real. Consequences in 10 in 50 years time is beyond all of us, I think. I think it’s impossible. I think part of why people weren’t waking up to this at the moment and won’t confront it, is because it’s. It’s so big. What’s happening, I think, is going to be like a first world war. Of course, you know, through it, you know, someone said that the First World War was a set of iron railings between. The. Between the past and everything else, because you could see the past, but you could never reach it again. And I think but that wouldn’t have been apparent right at the time, you know, that wouldn’t have been a part. And even as the men were dying. It was not the. You know, it was. My wife’s great grandfather whose picture is right over there, wrote a book about it, his service in France. And I’ve read it. Pretty great book. And it’s the most cheerful book ever written, you know, sort of like he was a, you know, successful guy in the United States, one over there and fight for something, you know, understand what he’s fighting for you is a good move the whole time. Know. Yeah. I think at some point, at some point, again in the same time frame, you’re talking about Second World War, thereafter, I think the world fell finally into the grip of the banks. It fell finally into the grip of those unelected, unaccountable, for profit. Groups for whom. Everything was only about money, money and power. And and for them, they became anywheres at that point. They didn’t care about. They didn’t care about Britain, didn’t care about America. They just cared about money. You know, and I think I think that has been, has been I think we lost in the, in that slow. Motion. Consequence of the 20th century or the first half of the 20th century. That all of. All of what had been. Before. That kind of love of country, that kind of patriotism, that that kind of identity. I think that was. Unmoored. Unhitched at that point. And something very large and slow moving just began to drift like a great liner. That, you know. Was no longer on its safe Anchorage. And it’s just. And it’s only. And it’s only now that without kind of 20, 2020 version of hindsight, that we’re able to look back and see that that happened. When was the last time Britain had a leader who believes the country was more important than the banks? Well, you probably you probably have. To go back to pre 1694 and the and the establishment of the Bank of England. I mean that’s when the Bank of England was, was set up and that’s and that’s that became the model for. The fed. In in 1913. And you know the the creature of Jekyll Island and I think and but then where do you start? You know, the City of London was established by, you know, at the time of William the Conqueror, of course. And there’s a state. Within a state. That’s like the Vatican. It’s a it’s a separate entity. You know, people don’t you don’t fully appreciate the extent to which the City of London is not Britain. It’s, it’s. A, it’s a separate it’s a separate single. It’s one police force. The monarch has to seek permission to enter the City of London. There’s a there’s a nominated person in Parliament, the city, the city. Remembrance, sir. Most people don’t notice who’s there all the time to make sure that. The the, the unique rights. Of the City of London are maintained and not compromised by any subsequent legislation. You know, so there’s there’s been a long period of that. So to get back to a time before the banks of thrall. You’d have to. Be before the banks were given, the Bank of England was given that magical power to create. Fiat money. That’s when all the you know. That that’s when the trouble started. You know about the Bradbury Pound. That’s a no. The great story. Well, you know, about, you know, the, would you call it the, Abe Lincoln had constitutional script, the greenbacks. Yes. During the Civil War, obviously. You know, to get himself out of a financial hole. Well, the Bradbury Pound came about in 1914 because there was a run on the Banks War. Had war. War was declared and people panic and and people would go into the banks with the bits of paper, the big bank notes. I promised to pay the bearer on demand the sum of 5 pounds 10.5. And in those days you could actually get that transformed into gold. You you. Could get the commensurate the you know, the relevant that. Goal the transfer had value. And and so the banks had a run on you know, the the close the banks. But there was an extended bank holiday. The, the, the bank went scuttling to the Treasury. David Lloyd George was the that was the, was the was was that was the person they sought out. The the Treasury. The government must have had an inkling that it was happening because within within three. Days. Legislation was rushed through Parliament. So they must have had something kind of ready to go. And they created Treasury notes. And the first Lord of the Treasury was a man called, I think it was John Bradbury. Bradbury, anyway. And he his signature was on these notes, and they became the nickname was the Bradbury Pounds. And so the banks reopened. The people were still queuing up, wanting to transfer their bank, bank notes into gold. They were. Persuaded to take these Treasury. Notes instead. And people said, well, what’s the value of these? And they were they were debt free and interest free, and they were underwritten by the the notional value of Britain. The everything that Britain was owed is its creativity, its people, its labor force, its everything. That’s what underwrote the Bradbury Pound. And for whatever. Reason, people accepted it. Okay, I’ll take these Bradbury pounds. I’ll take these Treasury, not bank notes. Treasury notes. Interest free. Debt free. And that got that that that saved the day. The run on the bank was averted. Now, almost at once, the banks. Said, realized we can’t have this. This is debt free, interest free mode of exchange. What’s in it for us? And so very quickly. They went back to the government, said, withdraw these Bradbury pounds. Let’s go back to the old days. We’ll buy. Government bonds. We’ll give you banknotes. We’ll call it 3%. 3% interest. Sound fair? The Bradbury. Pounds were. I think the last one actually didn’t come out of circulation until maybe in the belief, but many years later, I can’t remember exactly when the last one came out of circulation. Britain’s national debt in 1914. Before the war, was about 650 million pounds. By 1918 it was 7.5 billion. Because the bankers had regained control. But but for a moment. For a moment. With the with the advent of. This debt free, interest free Treasury note underwritten by the notional or real value of Britain. There was a, there was a, there was a currency went out into general circulation that could have changed everything. Imagine if people imagine if the banks had been disempowered because they didn’t have the power of debt. They didn’t have the power of but usually interest, whatever you want to call it. But they they realized we’re not having this. So having been out of the whole of the run on the gold, the, the the Bradbury pens were taken away. Nobody noticed. There’s a war on and the national debt that began its begun its cycling upwards. Crypto be a Bradbury pound. Well. I get. I host, I seek to host conversations about brought about about Bitcoin and crypto. From time to time, I’ll, I’ll make no bones about it. I’m not. I’m not really sure that a properly I’m in an expert in a position to see whether I think it’s the freedom of humanity or not. I hear very strong voices on either side. People say it’s a Ponzi scheme and a coin and don’t go near it. Other people say, no, this is the foundation upon which we will rebuild society. And somewhere between those two polar, extremes must lie. That must lie the truth. I think, I think, I think there are elements about it. Distributed ledger, blockchain. I think somewhere within there there are profound solutions because I have asked and, and had. A vague yes. Whether or not you could use the blockchain protocol to have I see a news channel. That. Couldn’t be shut down because it’s peer to, you know, the currency exchange with Bitcoin is peer to peer, person to person, without interest, without the antecedents of a bank. And hypothetically they say, yes, you could, you could, you. Could distribute information. You could you. Could transact Bitcoin essentially as a transaction of information. So therefore you could hypothetically you could exchange news. You could in that way. And the people couldn’t the baddies couldn’t get at it hypothetically. So the, the the cryptocurrency or bitcoin and blockchain interests me for that reason. And and and I although I listen to very strong voices saying don’t go anywhere near bitcoin it’s been hacked at all. The banks have got control of it and so on and so on. I think somewhere within that thinking there might be a. There might be some of the answer. How long till you get pulled off the air? Oh. Oh, I don’t know. I do genuinely when? When, when? If you’re living in a country that is trying to criminalize conversations at your dinner table between you and your kids, send you to prison for seven years for having the wrong opinions? I think I think, it’s a bold, not me. I mean, I’m a I’m a small fry in these things, but, you know, I’m a minnow in swimming in these waters. But nonetheless, these are. Bold moves. Because I think the people that are. Seeking the control with everything, with digital currency, with with digital IDs, with all of it. Are. Are cowardly, frightened people. I think we’re dealing with I think we have created an ecosystem that has enabled to thrive the most frightened, psychopathic, parasitic carcass, the Cratic leadership the. World has yet seen. We have created the conditions for them. And it’s we’ve got to take responsibility for the fact that they are our fault. You know, you get. The government you deserve. That’s true. So we we can’t wash our hands of it. Nonetheless, I think they’re scared. Very, very, very frightened people. And what they’re most frightened of is everyone else. They’re probably frightened of each other. And I think there’s a line. Do they want do they have the. Will they cross it and do the work that would be required? They’re operating at one remove from really hurting people physically. Really going the lengths of throwing people into, you know, gulags and concentration camps. I’m not there yet. And, you know, are they. Are they ready? Do they have the backbone to actually start? Not so many people like me, but, you know, bigger fish. Are they really going to do that? I don’t know if they’ve really got it in them. As long as people are. Proposing jail time for people who criticize them, that suggests they do have it in. Them. Let’s see what actually happens. I think some of it is, I think some of it is, is is brinkmanship and. I’m not I’m not persuaded that they’ve got the, the cajones to, to be the authoritarians that they fantasize about being. Well, I mean, it depends on circumstance, right. I mean, they once the virus, intentionally or not, got out of the lab in Wuhan, the Covid virus, then, you know, they moved immediately to institute totalitarian rule. That will happen again. They’re still doing gain of function research, as you well know. But don’t you don’t you think there. Will be a real virus that escapes? I don’t think they will. I don’t think so. I’m not sure there ever was anything. I don’t think that I’m not persuaded that there ever was anything novel. Called. Covid. I’m not. Covid came and influenza vanished. But really now all the people that were traditionally tens of in the tens or hundreds of thousands every winter would die of the flu. Yes. Nobody’s dying of flu. You know what this is? No Covid. That’s kind of. Convenient. So I’m not I’m not entirely sure there was anything new. There was no pandemic. You know, the average. Age of death was 82, 83, which is beyond life expectancy. You know, you look at the stats, the official government stats for a country like Germany, in, in in 19 and 2019, 2020, hospital bed occupancy was at an all time low. There was nothing clinically observable. That. Would have given any clinician any cause for alarm. In terms of what? Dealing with something here. People are dropping like flies. It simply wasn’t. You have a lot of friends who died of Covid. No, I don’t know anyone. Who died of. Covid. What do you. Mean? I don’t know anyone. I don’t know anyone. Millions and millions and millions. Why not? No one connected to me. None of my people died of Covid. But I know plenty of people have died subsequently. Of heart attacks and. Or stroke or. All the other things that, you know, that happened. Once that. Do you know anyone who knows anyone who’s died of Covid? Well, I must do, I must, I must do. I can’t think of anyone, but I do not know anyone who died of Covid. It is kind of. Crazy, if you think about it. It’s like, I don’t, I don’t. I don’t I don’t know that I’m not persuaded that there was anything new circulating. It may have been, but it doesn’t matter. Even if there was, the the facts remain. The data makes clear that. There was no the people weren’t dying in large numbers before. Well, not for the ruler of the jobs. But in 2019, 2020, there was nothing. There was nothing to see here. What we ended up with was a pandemic of testing, with the misapplication of PCR tests that were never designed, according to the designer, to be used as diagnostic tools. The forensic, they’re not diagnostic. Everything about it was hinky. The whole thing was obviously the they simply. Took an opportunity to do something that they were planning to do anyway, which was. To use a. Pandemic to seize control of. People’s. Freedom and and their money biggest, the biggest transfer of wealth in history. Job done. All of that was achieved. But what if we had a pandemic of anything? It was a pandemic of propaganda, a pandemic of lies, and a pandemic of testing. That’s it. Well, it is pretty remarkable that for a pandemic that supposedly killed 10 million people or whatever the number they’re assigning, you don’t know anyone who died from it, only people who died from the vaccine. That is absolutely true in my case, too. And in fact, I don’t know anyone who knows anyone who died of it. I possibly don’t I that I just couldn’t quite as well, but that’s pretty. I mean, we’re both in our 50s, sort of know a lot of people. You don’t know anybody who died of Covid. I know, know a number of people who died or injured from the fact. So, but at some point, I mean, the Spanish flu was real and millions people died. Well, including relatives of ours. Let’s let’s revisit that. I mean, the lies. Damned license statistics. I mean, numbers are always problematic. Yes. When I was at school, when I was at school, and I studied history at school, I remember being told that Stalin said that, for 4 million Russians, the Soviet had died conquering Germany, beating Germany. Yeah. It’s now routinely quoted as 20. Yes. So the number numbers, just whatever the numbers are, they go up. And so likewise with the Spanish flu, you know. No, I read sometimes that maybe 200, maybe more. 200 million people died of Spanish flu. But the number keeps going up with the passage of time. And there’s there’s quite. There are grounds for thinking that people died of was aspirin. Overdose because aspirin was very new. At the time of the Spanish flu pandemic. And the doctors or the or the medical, establishment, they kind of knew they had their hands on a, on a useful drug, but they hadn’t worked out the dosage, they didn’t know how best to administer it and what level. And people were. Literally. Eating handfuls of aspirin. Seriously, they were taking handfuls of aspirin. And people when they were dying of Spanish flu. Their symptoms are not what you would expect from flu influenza. People were had bloody froth at their noses. Yes, the mouths bluing of the lips, which is symptomatic of oxygen starvation. And but those are symptoms of aspirin overdose. Aspirin overdose will cause your blood to have less oxygen in it. Hence the the blurring of lips and and then the damage to lungs. What are you listening to? That’s true. And then. And then the time never heard. And then the damage to lungs will create. This will create this frothing. Now people were dying of, well, people were dying, but this photo from from 1914, 1918 and and given the complication of the misuse on a. Colossal scale. Of ash and it’s interesting, the parallel, doctors were encouraged to push aspirin on the patients, you know, and they were and they were in league with government and and physicians were all working together with big pharma. To push aspirin. As the wonder cure, as the wonder treatment. And you’ve got well, you end up with, with many, many dead. Unlike a sea that lies don’t license statistics. It’s hard to know how many people died, you know. But a lot of people died. But then sometimes a lot of people die with. With with an influenza. But but the way that things got out of control. You’ve got this. Complicating factor of people eating fistfuls of aspirin. And it was. Cheap. People could get the hands on, they could get the hands on it. So it’s hard to know if people were dying of influenza or if they were dying of, aspirin overdose. That’s an amazing. Story. So. So the Spanish flu pandemic is always quoted as the pandemic that’s happened before it will happen again. Well. Let’s let’s let’s revisit what. Let’s let’s find out. Let’s have a clear eyed view of exactly what did happen. Knowing that and turning down the vaccine and successfully fending off the attempts to inject your kids with with whatever that was. MRNA vax. Where how wary are you of taking any drugs? What’s your most powerful adjective? Tucker. I. Worry, I worry about. You know, I lie in bed and I think, God, what would I do if I was injured and I. Needed a blood. Transfusion? Or if I. Or if I needed, injections or whatever? How confident would I be of what was in the injections? I could be being told one thing and and the reality being another. And it might not even be the full or the or the or the action of the person administering it. Right. That’s right. What exactly is in the vial? Oh, well, it’s. I worry about I worry about exactly. Because, you know, clearly the AstraZeneca product, which was not an MRI, any adenoviral, yada yada different, the EMA that’s been thrown under the bus, but the many products are still there. Pfizer, Moderna. And we know that my government have invested hugely in marine technology. This is going to be the platform for, you know, for the future of all sorts pharmaceuticals, you know, included. So I’m very, very anxious about what’s going to be out there. And if I as I see if I, if I required, as I’m sure will and you know, between knowing, you know, popping my clogs, I’ll need I’ll need medical intervention and I would be. I would be, I would be anxious. And I tell you, I’ve traveled extensively, as have you. And in the years before I’ve had every single one, and I’ve had bad reactions to things. I remember being really very unwell after my yellow fever. Me too. I was a, you know, typhoid. Yeah. No, to the. Point where I. Thought I was away. I was away from home. When the effects of it started me, I thought, oh my God, I’m not sure I’m going to go to work. This is dire. So I’ve had, you. Know, I’ve had my stories to tell about, but I’ve had everything. I’ve had Japanese encephalitis jabs and. This and that. So you name it. I was unenthusiastic, you know. Typical. Yeah. You just show up at the doctor before heading down or wherever and they get good. I thought I lost him, I thought. I thought vaccination was the was the way to go. And then of course, they were unable to apply these products by changing the definition of vaccine. So the mRNA technology specifically. Is a I don’t want that anywhere near me. Well, of course not. But one of the things when the conspiracy theorist started talking about these drugs, you know, really at the end of 2020, early 2021, they said, well, they could breach the blood brain barrier and they could change people permanently. With the gene therapies. Exactly what used to be that you weren’t allowed to see that. I was putting that in monologues and having it taken out, but now I can see it because. It’s literally true. And they admit that it is. It is gene therapy m RNA. Imagine if they had gone it to the general population in 2020 and said, we’ve got an experimental product. It will have some sort of effect on your DNA, but we can’t honestly tell. You. How much. If any, it’s not safe because. Previously pharmaceutical would never by their own, by their own industry standards, they would not have applied. The word safe to cream. That you put in a baby’s bottom for nappy. Rash. That’s right. You can’t call it safe. So that’s a dangerous word. Safe? Effective. No. They knew going out that it wouldn’t stop transmission because they hadn’t tested to see it would stop transmission. So the safe and effective. And take this not for you, but to make sure you don’t kill loved ones. Was a lie. That was that was lie after lie after lie. And and it was only we knew all this. It was only released under emergency use authorization, probably involving the DoD rather than Big Pharma in any meaningful sense. They knew going in that there would be an adverse reaction for every 800 doses of every 100 dose would see an adverse reaction. They got pages and pages of what the adverse reactions were going to be that Pfizer tried. To bury. For 75 years, but, you know, wasn’t able to do. We were lied to and lied to and lied to us. And it was it was almost it was all people. Were almost being thrown in jail for knowing and seeing that it was like. Well, and they in Australia, they were. But the question is why? And any sort of wonder like if you did, does it change your DNA? Do you notice a difference in people who took it? Well, we’ll find out because the biggest, the biggest test, the biggest human test in history has been carried. Over to know. That’s right. We’re waiting for the results now. But what do you think? What’s your instinct? You were right. Before. Well, I listened very early. On to the likes of, the German Thai doctor. Suture up Baghdadi, I think his name. And he was he frightened the living daylights out of me three, four years ago. And he was seeing then anyone of anyone applying at any. Anyone putting a product that is into people is taking part in the biggest crime against humanity in the history of humanity. And and for the sake of your honor, for the sake of your family name. You must walk away from having anything to do with applying this product to anyone. You must. Because if you if you if you do this, you will be taking part in the biggest crime against humanity. I’m just thinking, oh my God, who is this guy? But there was something very impressive. He was a credentialed, serious clinician research, you know, scientist person thought, but why would he be? Why would he be saying these things? He must have reasons for saying these things. And so. He he was very early. On saying, this is gene therapy. This is going this could change the DNA. Of the cells in people’s bodies. And what we already think we’re seeing that happening. And human behavior changed after the VAX, the inoculation campaign. I mean, it did change. Human behavior changed. People started living differently, their attitudes changed. And what do you think? People have been modified already? Yes, I do, I know evidence for that. Other than what I see. And specifically, how is it manifest. That people seem much more compliant actually, and I think they seem broken now. How do you know, disaggregate all the different factors is is beyond my capability. I’m not God, I don’t know. But, you know, being locked in doors for a year, you know, bereft of human contact. And, you know, there are lots of different factors. Drinking and drug use went way up. Screen time went way up. But there’s no denying that people change the way they lived in. Their attitudes really changed. And if you have a drug that could potentially change people’s DNA, and I think there’s evidence that it can I mean, it can, why wouldn’t you see changes in behavior? Well. I again, I say I would simply I would just I we’ll see. We will. We will see. But when it comes to. Weapons, that’s the biggest thing that’s ever happened in. You. This is the. Biggest thing that’s ever happened in human. It would be the biggest crime against against humanity in terms of changed behavior. I think you also yes, I believe. I absolutely accept that that we may well be seeing genetic change. But people that part of our conversation earlier that that thing about a. Test, a. Sorting of people in a fairly binary. Choice to to find out that you were the, the biggest test of humanity. Wrong. The big, the big one. Here’s the one. You don’t know it’s coming. But it turned out that that was the test. And to know that you ought to suspect. I’m. I’m pretty sure I called that wrong. I did that I. And people have seen that in themselves. And that’s a lot to live with. You know if you if you I don’t know. Let’s see. You’re lying in your bed at night. Finally asleep. Mum and dad for three full kids and the smoke alarm goes off. And as dad, you suddenly find yourself standing out in the street, having fled the house. Before. Even before you even had time to think. You realize that your instinct. It turns out it’s a false alarm anyway. There’s nothing to worry about. But nonetheless, imagine how. And then you go back in the house. That you didn’t come for us. You run out into the street and we were still in the house with the smoke. That’s the kind of. Analogy I would. Draw. So yes, people. Me. Maybe the irony component of what happened. We’d all to people. But I think people are altered by self-realization, which is a pretty powerful drive. I completely agree with that. And by the way, in a society that literally sends women to war to defend us. I mean, it’s like so degraded at this point. The concept of honor is sort of missing. I mean, the male survivors of the Titanic live with shame. Of course, you know, you’re a man. How did you survive that? Like women drown in your. You lived, like. Really? But I think we’ve lost touch with a lot of that. But that is a feature of of nature, of the natural law that you referred to earlier. And so it’s real whether we acknowledge it or not. And I, you know, guys who were raped in prison are referred to as bitches. You know what I mean? There’s something once you submit or allow yourself to be treated as something less than human, it it it changes you. And of course, being forced to take a drug into your body whose effects you don’t know that you don’t want is an act of of true submit is like getting raped. It’s it’s profound. I mean, we know it is. You know. The, you know, Freud and the archetypes and and the and the hero journey. I mean, all these things that we know about the, the are the, you know, the of the basis for, for so much of our understanding of the human psyche, you know, that every, every man and every person, let’s say, about every man you know, is supposed to go down into the belly of the. Beast. And, you know, in pursuit of the lost father and rescued, much like Pinocchio does in The Whale couldn’t get to Jupiter to back out and becomes a real boy. You know that. That’s the hero’s journey. And. We know what we’re supposed to do. That will be in order to. In order to justify our our three score and ten in this in this. Incarnated. Moment in time. We’ll, we’ll. We should go in the hero’s journey and, and emerge as, as, as fathers in our own right, able to fulfill that rule. We know that that’s the hero’s journey. And it’s. It’s it’s right there. Woven into it. It’s in everyone’s. It’s in the DNA. And and to have had your shot and not not going into the belly of the beast in pursuit of, you know, you’re taking up your. You’ve emasculated a lot of the population. So whether or not the genetics have been altered, which they may have been, that kind of self-realization is a damned hard bullet to chew. So does it strike you that what you the way that you think about people, is influenced by Freud and by people who think about human behavior in non-chemical terms and in moral, spiritual terms, that whole way of thinking has kind of disappeared. I mean, that was a feature of our childhoods where people would say, well, you have unresolved issues, guilt, whatever. You didn’t live up to your own standards. You take that with you now. It’s like you’ve got a chemical imbalance. Like we can’t even I don’t think people can even analyze human behavior in those terms. I think it’s part and parcel of an anti-human agenda. Yes. That what has been done fundamentally is anti-human, and it’s being done to. To people who see no. Inherent. They don’t know what it means to be human and alive. And and therefore they can be casual and contemptuous of people in a count of billions. Because we have because they have got away from the the sovereign human being. That’s right. And what it what it means, you know, we don’t we don’t have we’ve. Barely, barely floated. A dugout canoe onto the Pacific Ocean or the unknown as the human consciousness. But and then and but. We’ve already got. The, the transhumanists, not the transgender or the. Transhumanists who are already. Preaching that the human being, Mark one is sub optimal and needs an upgrade. Via. You know, technology. You know, they want to they want to blend humans with tech digitized, you know, ersatz human beings because the time of the biological human is partly over. But that is a that’s a product of. Of. The wrong kind of. People. Not even asking what it means to. Be human and alive. Right? Well, it’s a rebellion against God to I mean, if, you know, as Christian, certainly. But I think Muslims and Jews also certainly Jews do believe that human beings were created in God’s image. You know, to deface that image is to attack God, right? And to change, to declare people inherently inadequate. You know, that’s a. That’s. A theological concept. It’s it’s bound up with. Many, as I see, it’s going to be 100. Years or more. But, you know, obviously you like in, in 1968, Paul Ehrlich wrote the population here and at the same time actually got it hard and wrote The Tragedy of the Commons. Yes. And they both speculated about the basic crappiness and rubbishing this of people in large numbers. You know, they’ll just make a mess of everything. And it was that return of that new Malthusian approach to people. There’s too many of them, and they’re not worth having anyway. So this is going to be the ending overs, and the predictions of Erlich and so on were wrong. You got it completely wrong. And we, I, I talk to people. I interview people all the time who are seeing. And you’ll be across this. That. Birthrates are plummeting across. The West. It’s not just in the West. Japan is poised to disappear in 100 years. The same as, you know, Japanese people, right? So it’s not even a Western phenomenon. Swathes of of populations are not producing enough people to keep themselves going. It’s true in Britain and France, all across Europe. It’s true in America. It’s really bad. In America. People are having like 1.4, 1.5 children on average, which is not enough to sustain. No. And so and people are not appreciating that they are sitting in the, in the cheap seats on a plane that is in a tailspin that may not, may not be possible. Even if you could get to the controls to pull the plane back into level flight, it may have may have gone beyond that point. And so and. You’ve got that information out there at the same time as people like Bill gates. And others are saying, we’ve. Got to check the human population, we’ve got too many people. And in a in 100 years time, there’s going to be anybody here. Well, I’m. Being I’m using hyperbole, but. Populations are in steep. Decline. And it’s the explanations for are existential. You know, it has to do with with maybe possibly falling fertility and God knows what we’ve done to fertility with these products that we’ve jammed into several billion people. We’ll see. We’ll see what the fertility consequences of all that are in due course. I think we know. I think we know, but but in any event, there’s also people delaying having children. And then when in so many women, when they when they do reach a point where they do want to have children, they’ve known that maybe their mid 30s, the late 30s, the relevant partner is not there at the right time. And so the mess that there’s also there’s all sorts of existential reasons, societal reasons for the for the plummeting. But they got to work at a consulting firm. But what we see ensuing years, that’s not enough. But what I’m seeing is that we know this, and yet the Malthusian. Are still out there. Banging the drum for fewer people. We can’t get rid of people fast enough. They can’t quickly enough deter people from having more people. Isn’t that genocide? Like, isn’t that what that is? Yeah, it’s anti species. And again and again again. It’s it’s coming down to people I think you you don’t you’re not properly invested in the future and they’re certainly not invested in the future of humankind. They’re not, they’re not, they’re not giving. They’re they’re not giving. They’re the the last measure of devotion to reaching a level eight. So we there’s a football player. You probably haven’t follow this. But in the United States, the kicker who gave a college commencement speech the other day and in it he said, I did it. And I watched that this morning. Well. By chance we watched it online. They’re deeply steeped in the politics of United States. But then you saw how moderate it was. You take it out as you grow older. You might want to like, have kids, because that’s a source of enduring joy and all these politicians and cultural figures. And I still can’t remember that chick’s name, but Taylor Swift, some sort of fake entertainer, gets out there and, you know, denounces the guy is. As a Neanderthal and as evil, because he suggests that having children may be more rewarding than your stupid career. Like, what does that imply? Like, why would you be mad at someone for encouraging young people to have children? Like, that’s very weird to me. I was listening to I was listening to a Jordan Peterson years ago. I mean, I’m not claiming that as a badge of honor. I just I was way before everything that’s happening at the moment, I, I came across some years and years ago, I think it was courtesy of, you know, the Joe Rogan Experience. He was part of that, the intellectual dark web. Remember the Sam Harris, Brett and Heather, Brett Weinstein, Heather Heyer and Jordan Peterson. And so and I remember being. Really very. Profoundly struck by a lot of the things that, that Peterson had to say about children and parenthood. And, for example, I really remember I’m saying that, you know, so many people say they don’t want to have a baby because it’s going to interfere with a lifestyle. And he said, I really have to ask, what kind. Of lifestyle is it that you can’t take a baby with you? And I thought, yeah, because we tried. And I went from we had our first and then with. Three, the oldest came with us. Yes. Which, which is more. There were just. Then about two of them and then the three of them, and they just went everywhere. We just it didn’t impinge on anything. And obviously it goes without saying that it made our lives. But by but by. Inexpressible orders of magnitude richer and and yet, you know, but the abiding message out there is that, oh, no, there’s better things to do than be. Families. I that’s anti-human at the, at the base level. Well, so then I want to ask you just finally about one of the great trends in the West. And it is only in the West. Is the climate hysteria. How do you assess that? That seems part of this larger whole. It’s a hoax. It’s a hoax. In what sense in the. Well it’s multi it’s multifaceted a the the climate is changing because that’s what the climate does. Yeah. Whether you know the climate change we. Did have glaciers at one point. Yeah. we when they started, when they started measuring temperature, we were just coming out of the little Ice Age. Yes. Which had lasted for hundreds of years. And temperatures were as low on planet Earth as they’d been for thousands of years at that point. So when it comes to measuring temperature, there was only really one way, unless we were going to go extinct or go straight into another full ice age, there was only one way for the temperatures to go, which was up. And so the fact that there has been sustained. Increase in temperature, well, it would be because it was coming from the bottom of the well. And. The only way was up. Also. It’s used to be accepted, the accepted fact that. Increasing carbon dioxide follows a rise in temperature. It doesn’t cause it. Right. As the. World gets warmer, there is a there’s a kind of a several hundred. Year lag. And then there’s more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as a consequence of that warming. And so to, to to tell people that carbon dioxide. Is. Causing the increase in temperature would be like seeing a horse and cart on a route. From space and imagining that the cart was pushing the horse because you could see it moving. That would be how wrong you are. It’s the horse pulling the car and likewise CO2. There’s more of it once the planet’s warmer by. I think it’s 800 years is the lag. So there are all sorts of reasons for, being aware that this way in which people have being frightened into thinking that there’s a catastrophic apocalypse coming because they’ve got gas central heating and they drive fossil fuel cars is a hoax. There’s a big, complicated picture to do. With the the. The climate changing. Used to be called. In the 70s. I remember the documentary with Leonard Nimoy very well, talking about, you know, we’re going into an ice age. That was just the 70s, and then it became global warming. But then, because that isn’t holding up, it’s become climate change. Well, yeah. Of course, climate changes. And then at any event. What’s what’s been done in in response to it is is not green and it’s anti-human. You know, as advocates of fossil. Fuel, see if we are if we are, let’s see. We are going into a time of of climate uncertainty and instability. That would be the very time you wouldn’t want to deal with the ability to cheaply and readily heat homes or your condition them. That. Would be. True as appropriate. I mean, if if something’s going to happen, this would be the you know, you do not throw away your matches, you know, at the time would you might need to light a fire and, and also the, you know, the wind turbines that now are at the end of the life cycle and not just being landfilled. These vast unrecyclable plastic. Things are just being buried in the ground. They’re being made. In. In any event, using fossil fuels, they can’t be recycled. Electric cars. That’s just a means to to get people out of the cars and and back onto, I don’t know, horses. Or or. Or shanks is pony or whatever. So it’s not it’s not green. What is being done? The the planet. We’re making a mess. You know, look what happens in the extraction of the the lithium and other rare earth metals are required for electric batteries. Look at the the child slavery that that entails. Look at the look at. The scarification of the planet that’s involved in the extraction of those things, the destruction of ecosystems and habitats in pursuit of green energy. Really? Seriously. And the one, you know, the one clean green energy that is available, which is nuclear, is strictly verboten. Because, well. But because we’ve been told that you can’t have nuclear energy. So in Europe, you’ve seen a spate of, climate cultists destroying medieval art. You know, it’s never modern art. It’s always Christian art. But I’ve noticed. But, but they’ve gone into museums and spray painted or paintings. I don’t think you’ve seen any vandalism of private planes at all. So if you believe in the kind of schematic, if you believe in the story of climate change as an existential threat. You know, the first thing you would do is get rid of private air travel, but that doesn’t occur to anybody. I don’t understand, like, what is that? What are we watching? Well, you’ve got that. You’ve got that bizarre situation where the the rich at the World Economic Forum in Davos and other places are openly saying that because of carbon credits, as rich people will buy the carbon credits of poor people that can’t afford to go on holiday anyway, and that will offset our private jets and private yours. You’re not using your carbon credits anyway, because you can barely afford to feed yourself or your family. So you’re definitely not going on holiday this year. So I’ll. I’ll, I’ll I’ll take your credit, your carbon credits off your hand and I’ll, I’ll use that to legitimize my the perpetuation of my luxurious lifestyle. You know, the hypocrisy of it, the rubbing of people’s noses. In it is off the scale. And again, it’s anti-human. If if for one of the kind of farming techniques and the and the and the fertilizers. That we have, there’s very good. Reason for thinking that half the world’s population will starve to death for one of the kind of fertilizers that are made from oil. You know, so the just stop oil. So you’re going to see famine. So I don’t think there’s any doubt about that soon. And when that happens, you know, will people blame each other as they’ve been instructed to do, or will they finally figure out that this is all manufactured? I think again, being, being being absolutely it being an inalienable. Responsibility to be positive. I would have to answer yes to that question that. Most people do. Well, I can see for when I see it. Now, and I didn’t used to. So I’ve added to the count by one and Trudy sees it. And she didn’t used to. So that’s two. And our kids do. So that’s five. You know. So just in my circle, I’m seeing people waking up on a very personal level. So so yes, I do. I do think that the enough people are seeing. The. The way in which. We are being played. We are being an attempt, a galactic scale attempt to pull the wool over our eyes. This is going on. And. More and more people are seeing it, and they’re seeing that people are being uprooted from. Their. Their homelands and have been for generations. They’re turning up where the, you know. Maybe oughtn’t to be. And instead of people. Im, you know, pausing for a moment to think, why is this disruption happening? They just get angry with the victims of it. And I’m not saying I’m not something I’m sure that are. I’m sure that are bad lads and and criminals. And I’m absolutely the sort of people of whatever treatment color that you wouldn’t want in your communities. I think I get that, absolutely. But they. Wouldn’t be here if the governments and NGOs hadn’t brought. In. But the bigger picture is, I mean, look at the you know, they’re building a bridge in the Dorian. Gap to make it easier. For the NGOs and the W.H.O. and the UN and the rest of them to. To drive people. Into the United. States from the South. If you can either see. I’m seeing it and more and more people are seeing and all it, all it really takes is for people to realize that the trouble is not beside you, it’s above you, and there’s not. It’s not a big it’s not a big group. And actually the techniques are old, worn out and transparent from overseas. And, you know, there’s nothing to fear. But. The fear. This all I would say. I can’t believe that I am more pessimistic than a Scot. Well, you’ve. Probably got Scottish genes. I do. But there’s no, that’s a zero sum. Game, Tucker. You can’t. You’ve got to be. You’ve got to. You’ve got to. It’s like. It’s like taking your castor oil. It’s like taking your. You’ve got to. You’ve got to be optimistic. Because it’s. Your. It’s your obligation. It’s nothing less than your obligation to force yourself to be optimists. That you can’t. You cannot go to the to the dark side until it’s all over. In which case it won’t matter anyway. But I don’t think, I don’t think so. Neil Oliver. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Thank you Tucker Carlson.
50 Comments
I had always liked Neil Oliver, now I like him more ..
For someone having english as a second language I can say that i understood neither half of what he means but it is very entertaining to hear him talk mostly because of his pronunciation
Yeah, Jimmy Dore is another fearless voice.
1:58:49 they actually did get Taylor Swift's private jet! I saw a video of it on Instagram earlier today
Neil .. Bitcoin has NEVER been hacked. Individuals have had their wallets compromised via phishing etc which is no different to when you lose credit card with the PIN written on it or its security details used to buy things online etc.
Never heard anyone describe the utter solitary grief at waking up & learning it's all lies, and then everyone thinks you're crazy. Thanks Neil for articulating the trauma & the Truth! ❤
WWIII IS Here.
Neil Oliver is a great man. I love listening to him.
Great host choice ,thxs Tucker!!🎉
The "conspiracy" to control populations definitely predates WWII. I'd look to the Rothschild banking empire, which began in 1798. The central banks are a key factor in managing and controlling countries, governments and populations . . . and in fact it's probably a key reason for the unremitting persecution of Russia for the past several decades, as Putin expelled the Central Bank and nationalized the banking activities. Oh, and he issued an arrest warrant for Soros, as a subversive influence – which we should also do!
This control was brought out on Ted Talks with the great speech by Paddy Ashdown in his speech on " The Global Power Shift". He spelled it out in a riveting speech that lasted for 18 minutes. What Neil and Tucker are talking about is the outcome from the event that Ashdown talks about.
1:35:35 ❕❗❕❗
i dunno about owning anything in the part 19:43 like if you stop paying taxes see how fast the bank or gov seizes your assets. i get we need to pay to fund stuff but like sooner or later they are going to find a way to tax you on air example in cali i read that they are now making a EV tax because there not making money from gas tax like why switch to EV then?
“Sovereign is he who decides on the exception”. Political Theology, Carl Schmitt
A primer on how liberal “democracies” can so easily slide into tyranny.
There is a secret elite that have known since the early 70s about the reality of anthropogenic climate change. This group was already actively engaged in population liquidation but with the additional knowledge planned liquidatatiin rose from 70 to 95% of the global population. To do this they have created chaos so there are no protections and the intention is disguised. People are easily herded when scared and confused
Hope. A sliver of hope. The best thing I've heard in years! What an awesome interview! Wake up people!! Let's go!!!
Yea but if more people stood up it would make others do the same. Then you create your own mob of people to fight off the insane brainwashed mob. Thats what it is gonna take. We can not keep being scared of the sheeple.
Wars between Scotland and England? Scots are not compliant by nature.
No, gears shifted in the western world after WWI, not WW2.
You guys rock! ❤
Bad form youtube. Censorship.
When are humans going to realize, the meaning of the term “conspiracy theorist” simple means you have a soul and a conscious. Count yourself lucky. This isn’t a game.
Mass Migration not immigration
The common divider is simply those who refuse to be lied to and those who are willing to live the lie.
Far and away the most deep and powerful interview yet. My wife is Scottish and woke up during COVID. I had been working on her since 2008 and that is a credit to my grandmother who is 95 and sharp as a whip and woke me up at a young age. The Scott’s have always been freedom fighters love their spirit at least the awoken Scott’s
That was epic!!!
No point in commenting a put one on 4 hour's ago ,it's still not on
😂 you fools. These people have been working against us for the last 40 years probably longer. They wish to make us all slaves. Cheap labor is a source of their well. Stop acting like this is a new issue it's been going on for quite long.
This is the first pod I’ve seen that focused on the main point of everything = eugenics.
Wow Tucker you need to speak to Dr David Martin
The Alarming thing of this is HOW GULLIBLE a large number of people have gotten and how easily and passively they consume the BS they are fed by the "press"
When it comes to Covid, early on I knew there was something a foot… My Brother came over with my grandson , he had not been Vaccinated yet and i shared som information with him in the hopes that it would deter him from getting the jab, and my brother angrily made this statement " we're saving lives " I turned to look at him and asked Who's life are you saving by taking the jab you fool… He stopped coming to my home…😂😅😊
I’m sitting here thinking why doesn’t Tucker and Neil realize everything he’s saying about central control by a group of nameless people, through technology is prophetic? It’s all in Revelation. These are the last of the last days. Jesus is coming back soon and very soon.
Screwtube censored 20 mins of this interview (nearly 1/3 of entire interview) because of the Jab truth
We are heading toward REVOLUTION!
They – the globalists are trying to destroy Western Civilization. That's why Scotland is included in the destruction. They want to return to tribalism; regionalism and metropolitan centers that serve as the hubs of the global system.
Great interview with many salient points. Its long past time to deal with the corporate industrial complexes that have stolen our democracies.
Did LSD after High School and looked deeply into a tree and I knew then the established world didn't care about people, probably wants less people…
Nailed it. “Climate change” and eugenics.
Let me educate you. Since the second world war only 3 PMs out of 17 have not gone to Oxford. Winston Churchill who was a soldier. Brown who was a Scott and Major who was a life long public servant. Since the Brexit debacle all candidates have been from Oxford. Oxford boys and girls come from both sides of the house. IOt makes no difference. So it is Oxford who chooses who will lead. It is not democracy it is Oxfordocracy. And Oxford is a totally suppressive organization pretending to be an education facility that was founded in modern times by a total psychopath in the form of Henry VIII.
Scotland Sharing 🍺📡🍺
What is the meaning of "carcastocratic" (sp?)….
Failing upward is a perfect anecdote for describing what is happening to the West. I pray to God it ends.
Great Britain traded thier identity for the pretend "take down" of the great estates and aristocracy! They felt as though watching the great rich families lose thier estates after both great wars was some kind of equalizer. And freed the regular citizens from jobs (forever jobs with old age security mind you) in service to those great families! It was the ushering in of a new rich with No Ties to the people or the land or the history! The communists in all reality won by quickily taking that culture.
Mr. Smith is nobody and everyone at the same time. (Matrix)
Just plug me back into the matrix, I’m good with the filet mignon
Are these immigrants being FORCED to move to another continent? If so, by who?
I felt bad for how scared the " news – made them / fear sells
When money wasnt feiat it was gold ans silver certificate. Thats when govs. Realized they could fool the people with fiat shit
Truth warning