RFK Jr. vs Piers Morgan | On Gaza Ceasefire, Trump And Fears For His Safety

The Kennedy family has been incredibly influential in the development of the American political landscape. One man hoping to build on this tradition is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Despite his pedigree, Kennedy has refused to fall in line with the Democratic Party and is instead running as an independent in the 2024 presidential race; taking on both Joe Biden and Donald Trump. In this interview with Piers Morgan, he says he’s a real threat to both his opponents because of the issues they refuse to tackle. From the deficit to homeownership, Israel to Ukraine, RFK Jr. vows to do what Trump and Biden won’t, or can’t.

00:00 – Introduction
01:02 – Piers’ monologue on RFK Jr.
01:30 – How is his campaign playing out?
05:15 – “If I drop out, Trump wins even more”
08:20 – Trump says he ‘would love’ RFK Jr. to join the debates
10:40 – Inflation, the economy and world wars
14:20 – What would he ask Trump and Biden on the debate stage?
16:20 – Donald Trump’s guilty verdict
18:20 – JFK assassination and secret service protection
24:20 – Worries for his own life
26:10 – Ukraine and Israel-Gaza war
43:10 – War in Afghanistan
47:40 – Hostages and Hamas
50:00 – Gaza ceasefire
51:30 – Dead worm found in RFK’s brain
54:10 – The condition that affects his voice
56:30 – Cricket in America

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how do you like being called Junior you’re not exactly a spring chick it’s funny because he kind of kissed me and slapped me at the same time the baby booom generation watch CNN they watch MSNBC and I’m not normally allowed on those networks you don’t own a house in this country you can’t participate in the American dream how did you feel about Donald Trump becoming a convicted felon this is the destruction of everything that we value in America I’m the first candidate in history who requested sec service protection independent Idol you’ve been very supportive of Israel but very unsupportive of Ukraine I’m any War it’s a war of choice it’s a war we should never have had to me you’re painting a very benevolent trusting view of Vladimir Putin M has to be disarmed or else how can you have a peace I’m very very happy to take cogn T along with President Trump and President Biden maybe they should get you on the debate stage and put you all through a cognitive test he’s a Kennedy a supposed conspiracist and the Insurgent independent candidate for president of the United States RFK Jr has shaken up the race for the White House powered by younger voters a canny media plan that favors podcasts over press conferences both of Biden and Trump campaigns are divided over who he may hurt the most but one thing’s for certain a strong independent candidate could change the course of history in a life Edge election and Robert F Kennedy Jr says he’s going nowhere returning to unsensed he joins me now Robert great to see you here thanks for having me back it’s been a few months since I last spoke to you uh how’s it going what’s your perspective on the way your campaign has been playing out well I mean there is I suppose there’s two ways of of summarizing it one is our challenge to get on the ballot and all 50 stat were now on the we have now enough sufficient signatures for uh for 10 states and we are already on the ballot in nine more so that’s 19 states that gives us about 278 electoral votes uh access to 278 electoral votes which is about half the total uh by mid July we will be on the ballot in every state and in the District of Columbia our polling is is is doing well I’m over 15% in six of the major national polling firms now and in head-to-head races I beat President Biden and a landslide 39 states to 11 states and the biggest poll taken which is the Z pole I also beat president Trump and a head-to-head raise President Biden can’t do that I can uh I’m beating both President Biden and president Trump in terms of favorability I’m way ahead of them uh and I’m beating them among young people and among independent voters so my uh peers my big challenge is the baby boom generation uh there the people who watch CNN they watch MSNBC and I’m not normally allowed on those networks to do live interviews and so the the uh if if you live in that information bubble then you would have a very very unfavorable view of me and my challenge is to get on those on CNN MSNBC and then the broadcast networks ABC CBS and NBC um and try to get live interviews on then so I can talk directly to the Baby Boomers and and I’ve got five months to convince them enough of them to vote for me that I win the election I mean what is fascinating is that right now uh you are polling better than any third party or independent candidates PED in an individual survey at this stage in the Cycles it’s Ross perau in 1996 it’s only 30 years ago so whatever you’re doing is clearly resonating with a lot of Americans what nobody can really work out is who you’re going to damage most who do you want to damage most I don’t really have a preference I mean I can tell you what our polling is showing which I think is the most accurate polling um that I about 57% of the people who say they’re going to vote for me if I dropped out of the race they would vote for Donald Trump um the big zogby poll you know typically peers a national poll by Harvard Harris or Gallop or Quin aak or mmth um has about from a thousand to 2200 people zby did a poll more than 10 times size so 26,000 people and has a margin of error of almost zero and that poll showed that if in a three-way race right if the three-way race occurred today president Trump wins um and if I if I drop out of that race president Trump wins even more he wins two extra states which are would be Maine and Virginia um so I think my presence in the race helps president F at this point I’m hoping in the long run that I’ll be very damaging to both of the candidates so uh but also you know all of our polling is showing that I’m bringing it a lot of people who had given up on the political process people who weren’t going to vote this this cycle if I am not in the race now two questions about the upcoming debate um one I believe you technically qualified to be on that stage with Biden and Trump but the question I have for you is are they going to let you well clearly they don’t want to let me you know we know from The Washington Post reporting and from other journalists who have said who’ve actually described what happened in the telephone call between President Biden and president Trump and the CNN and that from their staff they didn’t you know wasn’t candidates directly who participated in that call but their their lead staffers President Biden staffers said we will not be on the debating stage if Robert Kennedy’s allowed on this stage oh and they together they hatched uh um criteria that they thought would be designed to keep me off the stage but unfortunately for them I actually meet all those criteria I I meet them just briefly the criteria is that I’m over 15% in at least four recent polls from four of 12 specific companies and I already I’m already in six polls from those 12 companies I’m already over 15% including CNN’s own poll which has me at 16% from uh from May and then their other criteria is that the candidates have to be on the ballot in enough states to get 270 votes well I will be I will have enough signatures to get 270 votes in fact 343 electoral votes by the June 20th deadline the problem CNN has is that President Biden and president Trump aren’t on any pallot they both have the expect expectation they’ll be on state pallots when they win the nomination of their respective parties right now that’s just an expectation or hope for them they’re the presumptive nominees but they you know the Democratic party has a ballot line the Republican party has a ballot line but neither president Trump or President Biden do I’m the only one that does so I’m the only one that could conceivably meet that criteria right and what’s interesting is the Biden Camp clearly don’t want you anywhere near it but Donald Trump has a rather different view let’s take a listen crooked Joe Biden does not want RFK Jr in the debates because junior is far left of him and they would be debating over the same territory he’s also sharper and far more intelligent than Joe I don’t care if Junior joins the debate but right now his polling numbers are absolutely terrible he’s not properly qualified in the states and he seems to be on a downward path Junior needs more than his name to get on that stage but if he gets on there I would love it first of all how do you like being called Junior I mean you’re not exactly as bringing shake you oh I you know what there’s a lot there’s a lot worse stuff that he could call me so I’m not you know I I expect to be called something by by President Trump and it was funny because he kind of kissed me and slapped me at the same time he it was a kiss slap I’ve had a few of those from him I mean I I actually think it would be great for America and for American democracy if you were on that stage uh and if you were and I really think you know yeah go on I would say this P Pierce is that if you look at President Biden and president Trump they’re they’re two very very different candidates and that’s what their followers you see and their their dispositions are different uh their personalities are very different their um their Ambitions for our country their vision for our country their ideology and but on the issues that they differ on it’s a very narrow Overton window it’s guns it’s the board its abortion its trans rights on the big issues that are really existential for our country like the national debt the the the $34 trillion debt we’re now paying more to service that debt than our military budget within five years it’ll be 50 cents out of every dollar collected within 10 years 100% president Trump and President Biden can’t talk about it because president Trump ran up 8 trillion more money than every president of the United States history from George Washington George Bush he came into office saying that he was going to balance the budget and that he spent more money than all presidents in history President Biden is on the way to catch him he will actually exceed that by the end of his term he’s now running up a deficit of what he’s adding $1 trillion dollar every 90 days the deficit this is existential and they can’t talk about they can’t talk both of them are behind the war is the Ukraine war the other Wars that were this addiction to Wars both of them have brought that that on NE neither of them can deal with the this terrible poisonous polarization and division that we have in this country that is more threatening to our democracy than at any times is the American Civil War since both of them feed on that anger and that vital and those accusations and the fear and they are both the product of it so they’re not going to be able to solve it and if and you know and then the chronic disease epidemic that now is debilitating 60% of our kids they can’t do anything about it because they presided over inflation that is destroying our economy the destruction of the American middle class they’re the ones who ordered the covid lockdowns which was a nail in the coffin of the American middle class in 500 days we created 500 new billionaires this new oligarchy billionaires and we shifted $4.3 trillion from American Working Poor and the middle class to this new class of super rich and they did it you know they have they’ve mounted this assault on the American middle class and the only thing they can say is it’s not happening but you know I spent a lot of time talking to regular everyday people and 60% of the people in our country today are making less than the cause to basic human needs and you know there’s desperation in our country has never been experienced before in American history and neither of them has a plan neither of them even talks about President Biden says we’re all doing great so I think you know I’m talking to Americans who want these issues debated who want to know you know what are what we’re going to do about housing costs in this country there’s an entire generation now that is never going to own a home which is the basic fundamental fulcrum of the American dream the promise that if you work hard you play by the rules you can buy a home you can take a summer vacation you can raise a family you can put something aside for your retirement on one job there’s nobody in my kids generation who believes that that promise applies to them and you know the housing prices are out of sight because of inflation number one but even more importantly these giant corporations like Black Rock State Street and Vanguard that are that own 88% of the S&P 500 and now are are buying up all of our housing stock and taking that opportunity if you don’t own a house in this country you don’t you can’t participate in the American dream because you can’t get access to Capital you can’t you if you own a house you own an equity you can borrow money you can pursue your entrepreneurial impulses you can build a bowling alley or a yoga studio or a Saloon or a sporting good store but without that and that’s what created the American middle classes this the greatest economic engine in the history of mankind and now we’re going from a ownership Society to a rental society and when we do that we go from being citizens to being subjects and you know this is the destruction of everything that we value in America if you were on that debate stage what would be the the killer question for you for both Trump and for Biden I think the things that I just talked about you know what are we going to do about inflation why what did you how do you justify how do you justify running up these huge deficits what’s the end of it where is it going to end you know that’s what is eating up the American dream at deficit these deficits feed inflation inflation is a way of taxing the poor of taxing the world working poor people on fixed incomes people on salaries and you know it’s destroying everything in our country and neither of them has a plan for dealing with it and that’s what I’m going to hit on them where is your plan for for making our country affordable again for rebuilding the American middle class rebuilding our industrial base helping small business in this country which is under attack there are there are a million benefits and subsidies for big business and none for small business in this country and during Co they closed the two of them closed 3.3 million businesses with no due process no just compensation no scientific citation and now they’re going to those businesses and asking them for the money back that we gave them during covid and it’s just insane and uh and 41% of blackowned businesses will never reopen we’re seeing the devastation of that in our cities today many of these businesses had three generations of equity in them and of hard work of Sweat Equity of of of financial equity and it’s all gone now and the American middle class which is you know we’re turning into this very stfi stratified society which with this extraordinary wealth above and widespread poverty below and that kind of configuration peers cannot support democracy over the long term term it’s too unstable and talking of preserving democracy how did you feel about Donald Trump becoming a convicted felon do you agree with the Republicans and a lot of Independence actually that it was a a ridiculous weaponization of the justice system over what should have been just a state misdemeanor massively overreached and now will unleash a series of tit fortat attempts to imprison political leaders in America making it almost not a republic yeah I agree with you and you know um the framers the United States Constitution were very very uh conscious of the history in England where the the king would often jail his opponents in in Parliament on their way to on their way to Parliament on on contrived charges and so we pass in many of our states actually laws that no matter what kind of crime A A legislature the state legislator commit you cannot arrest them on his way to the capital and it’s a crazy law but we actually have that in many states you can commit murder and you’re they’re not allowed to arrest you because they were conscious of that so you know we also as you know we have a counterbalancing value in our country which is we want to make sure that no politician is above the law but but so that if if a politician breaks the law yeah they have to pay for it too but prosecutors are supposed to be very very sensitized of the fact that we don’t want America to look like a b Republic right or to look at the old the ancient British model where where political opponents you know the the law enforcement agencies were weaponized against political opponents and unfortunately that’s what it looks to many people what happened in our country and I want to say this I have condemned President Biden and the dnc’s use of of you know of law enforcement agency including the Secret Service they won’t give me Secret Service protection which is ridiculous I do not understand that I I honestly it is incredible to me that you you you have this current polling and you’re a Kennedy I mean and no one is thinking that a a popular Kennedy in American political life at the moment should not be properly protected it’s it’s to me insane yeah I mean President Biden has a statue of my dad a to my dad behind him at the Oval Office and he must know what happened to my father you know in fact prior to 1968 prior to my father’s assassination the only the the nominees of the of the political party after the convention were entitled to Secret Service protection so my dad dad didn’t have Secret Service protection he was relying on on football players from the Oakland Raiders and the Dallas Cowboy the Fearsome force and those were his guards and when he was up in Northern California the Black Panther Party provided him protection but he did not have any official Federal Protection and after he was killed Congress changed the law on all of the candidates who ran that year George Wallace George mcgu or George Wallace jeane McCarthy Hubert hrey were all given protection since then the law has been that 120 days out from the uh from the November election you’re entitled to it I I should be entitled to it I don’t know if they’ll still try to deny it to me but the president has discretion to give it to other people and um nobody has ever been denied it who’s requested I’m the first candidate in history who who’s requested Secret Service protection been denied it I’ve had several credible threats on my life I’ve had three breakings my house including a mentally ill person making it the second story when my family was home I’ve had a guy show up at one of my events demanding to see me with concealed shoulder holsters um loaded with magazines and uh and a laser sighted pistol in his backpack and before he left his home he created a Tik Tok account and left a goodbye message saying if I don’t return from this Mission alive you know contact your commander-in Chief so he was uh it was you know it was a very very let’s say suspicious incident and he was luckily my um security detail Gavin debecker Association spotted that looked he was wearing fake federal ID so he had a fake um US Marshall badge and he had fake uh picture ID Federal picture ID on his belt and my security detail noticed that that badge was a little too sh tiny and so they surrounded him and they and you know the police came and arrested him but the the Secret Service itself we provided them 68 pages of detailed death threats and other threats against me and they they examined my case and they said that I was at a u at aerated risk so that was a secret service finding U but the white how still has refused to give me protection now I do want to say this that I believe that DNC is weaponizing all these agencies right now including you know we saw from my case Biden versus Kennedy from the um from the Murthy versus Biden case from the Twitter files that the law enforcement agencies have been now um droned into censoring American includ including the CIA the fbii on C uh the DHS NIH CDC and FDA but president Trump also when he ran was saying and this is the point that you made he was he was the one who who introduced this concept by saying oh we’re going to lock Hillary up I going to point a special prosecutor to jail her so now we’ve got this kind of TI for TAC thing going and it is it really really dangerous for American democracy and we got to end it we we can’t turn our country into a Banana Republic no and you need to be properly protected have you tried to contact President Biden personally yeah I have and my family has talked to him um I’ve reached out to Senator Chuck Schumer because you know what the White House say says is well there’s this little Committee in Congress led by Chuck Schumer’s three people and that they say that you shouldn’t get protection so they’re pointing to Chuck Schumer and saying it’s his fault but you know it’s Biden’s Choice President Biden has the discretion and he ought he he doesn’t even need as you point out he shouldn’t even need to look at the Secret Service report he knows what happened to my dad he knows what happened to my uncle of course he knows you know my Uncle Teddy when he ran he was given Secret Service protection by by Carter who hated his guts right but he still had the decency to give him Secret Service protection 551 days out before he even declared when people knew that he was thinking of declaring President Biden or President Carter wrapped him in Secret Service protection I you know and I’m not worried about my own safety I don’t think like that but I’m worried about my family I’m worried about their safety I’m worried about bystanders when my father was killed six bystanders were shot including one of his best friends Paul shade who was shot in the head yeah when my uncle was shot there were numerous bystanders including uh governor connley who were shot when President Reagan was shot other people were badly badly you know wounded uh permanently disabled from that and almost every assassination we’ve had attempt we’ve had there’s been bystander shot so I am worried out there safety I I’ve made that clear to Chuck Schumer and a series of letters and Communications to him it’s ridiculous and to the White House and uh yeah and they uh and no response utterly ridiculous shameful actually shameful that a Kennedy running for president is not being given proper protection after what happened to your family um I’m going to keep on that actually I’m going to I’m going to write a column about that um I want to talk to you just thank you Pius I appreciate well no cuz I remember you telling me you know late last year and I just couldn’t believe it hasn’t been fixed just hearing you talk about it the way you just did and the precedent it sets and what happened to other members of your family who did get it it just makes no sense to me that anyone would want to take the risk just no sense whatsoever it’s actually disgraceful um you know like I say I’m not worried about my own safety but I don’t think it’s good for our country for yes you know people to think the the federal agencies are now weaponized for political processes and not just doing what they obviously should be doing ab inom completely um I want to talk to you just um separate this about Israel and Ukraine because you’ve been very supportive of Israel in the war with Hamas but very unsupportive of America helping Ukraine against Russia and I’m just curious what how you see the ideological difference because from where I sit Curr in London but from where I sit you have a Russian dictator illegally invading a sovereign Democratic European country uh and that country struggling to repel the Russian Invader and desperately needing our help and America Remains the number one help it could possibly have and we all know that and so America’s assistance to Ukraine may or may not determine whether they can stop a Russian Victory and in Israel they they are attacked by Hamas October the 7th horrendous attack and they’re responding and they’re trying to get their hostages and there’s a lot of controversy about how they are executing that that war but you’re fully supportive of them responding to that Invasion on October the 7th how do you differentiate I mean obviously they’re different situations but ultimately it’s about the same kind of principle of a people being attacked and then having the right to defend themselves and America very supportive at the moment of both why do you object to one not the other yeah it’s contextual appears and here’s the here’s the reason I’m any War I think most of the wars um that we fought over the past 100 years were immoral Wars um I I think the only war that we fought that was actually a moral war was World War II because it wasn’t a war of choice it was a war where we were attacked it was a defensive War we were attacked by an implacable enemy that had declared its intention to you know to destroy Western democracies Western values uh and to conquer the world to to establish essentially a you know a German caliphate that they call the third right um and and but most of our Wars including World War I were Wars of choice my grandfather protested World War I lost a lot of his friendships but it was a war to benefit and anchors and arms dealers and I think the Ukraine war is the same it’s a war of choice it’s a war we should never have had it’s a war that uh President Putin you know with we provided the provocation which was our insistence irrational insistence of putting NATO into Ukraine we were involved of course in the overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014 and then we put in our government sympathetic the United States which invited Ukraine invited NATO into the country which since 1992 the Soviet leadership long before Putin was saying that’s a red line for us and Russia has good reason for that you know we wouldn’t let nuclear weapons be put in in uh in Cuba I was there in 1962 um and this is on his border it’s four minutes from Moscow but for agis with missile systems we’ve already put the AIS missile tomahawks systems in in Romania in um uh uh in Poland we uh you Russia has been invaded three times through Ukraine the last time they were invaded through Ukraine it they killed Hitler killed one out of every seven Russians so they have a n a rational National Security interest in making sure that Ukraine is not occupied by a hostile Army and you know they’ve been very clear with us about about that our own diplomats from George K kennet Bill Pierce Bill Perry leading diplomats in our country have said if you go into Ukraine you’re going to force a violent response from Russia now even after that Russia after 2014 after we overthrew the government of Ukraine Russia said and and dbas and lugans voted to join Russia Putin said I don’t want them I don’t want them I want them to say part of Ukraine but let’s have a treaty the Minsk Accords and the key part of the Minsk Accords is that Ukraine would reain remain neutral we wouldn’t put nato in Ukraine so zalinsky runs he’s an actor and a comedian never been foiled in politics but he wins with 70% of the vote in the landslide why because he said I’m going to sign the Minsk Accords and make peace with Russia people of Ukraine wanted peace and then what happens the US government Victoria and his own right-wing people within you know Ukraine um forced him to Pivot so he didn’t sign the the the Accords Putin then goes into the country but he only sends 40,000 troops clearly he doesn’t want to conquer a nation of 44 million people and Putin himself says this he says I just want them back at the negotiating table the United States under Biden won’t help him so zalinski goes to to neali Ben of Israel and to ER again and turkey and he says will you help me negotiate a a new peace agreement with Putin Eran says yes they negotiated with the former Israeli Prime Minister and uh prime minister ergan in Istanbul they they signed they initial a treaty to to and the only thing they really want is that NATO doesn’t go into Ukraine and and Putin after the initial begins withdrawing his troops from KF then what happens President Biden sends Boris Johnson in April of 2022 to the Ukraine and forces zalinsky to tear up that agreement so we had peace in our hands a very very beneficial and satisfactory peace and prison Biden made zinski tear it up since then there’s been at least 500,000 Ukrainian kids who have died unnecessarily on the front line and we are you know and who’s making all the money northri Grumman Boeing locked blackone all of our military contractors who are the ones who wanted nato in there because when NATO goes in there into a new country those countries have to conform their weapons purchase specifications than NATO specifications they’re Buy let me response you because I mean NATO is not has not gone into Ukraine though Ukraine is not a NATO member yet if it was then Putin wouldn’t have invaded because NATO has a duty to defend its members uh secondly I would point out that Ukraine was was well hang on let me finish Ukraine was also urged to give up his nuclear defenses which which now looks like a very stupid decision thirdly in 2014 you’ve neglected to mention that Putin took Crimea um he also attacked Georgia this is to me you’re painting a very benevolent trusting view of Vladimir Putin someone who seems to me to be a pretty terrible Russian dictator who was ex former KGB uh didn’t like the fact the Soviet Union got broken up and is now on a mission to restore as much of that power as he possibly can uh whilst making himself extremely rich in the process and oppressing his people people I I just curious why you’re so like generous towards him and so ungenerous towards Ukraine who are who are in the end they are they are a sovereign Democratic European nation and they were invaded not just by 40,000 they were invaded by a lot more than 40,000 I I’ve been to ke I mean there were 150,000 Russian troops on that border uh and they they committed Massac well they they committed massacres in places like which were contemptible they destroyed cities like marle completely destroyed them and they’ve carried on trying to raise as much of Ukraine to the ground as they can so my question is why why are you so benevolent towards Putin and so trusting of him well I I don’t I’m not trusting of of Putin I don’t think you need to trust uh Vladimir Putin in order to see what happened Ukraine at um that you know the US it was involved in provocations and the and if you you know if you look at we the CIA appear spent $5 billion overthrowing the government through usaid and you know in funding the madon re revolution in 2014 it was only after we put our people in and by the way Victoria nulan the deputy director of the state department we have you can go on and listen to her taped conversations with the US ambassador a month before the coup d’etat in which she is picking the new heads of the Ukrainian cabinet Vladimir Putin says this and his rational response to that is to invade Crimea I’m not excusing it and I’m not excusing the the Putin’s invasion of dbas and lugans but it it it is rational and it was predictable that that uh Putin was not going to let the United States States take away his only warm water Port the only way for him to control his warm water port in flat of HCK was to go into Crimea and by the way he didn’t fire a shot he didn’t kill a single Crimean because they wanted him in there they voted to have them in there oh I’m not defending V Vladimir Putin I think I know who Putin is and and I and you know he’s very open about the fact that he kills his political enemies he’s not a nice guy right would you would you be happy would you be do you feel comfortable Robert with the idea of Putin winning this war do do you not see it as many do as a as a precursor to a very dangerous shift in power in in the global order if he does and now we’ve shifted the power by by forcing this war on them if first of all I’m not you know what I’m saying is we should be negotiating with him he’s as negoti is repeatedly would you give but what would you give him president I’m not going to tell you what I would give him I’m I’m running to be the leader of the country I’m not going to tell you what I’m going to what I’m going to do in negotiate but you know I spend my life my life my career has been about negotiations I’ve negotiated 500 lawsuits I know and you don’t trust the person on the other side of the negotiation and I can imagine you know what they I I would negotiate something that looked like the Minsk could Accords or look like the April 2022 Arrangement oh and what we’ve done PE we have destroyed American power we have forced AI we’ve show we’ve demonstrated the weakness of American power in Europe we’ve demonstrated the fact that we you know that um we can’t do what America is supposed to be able to do which is to reclaim that country that we’re we’re you know that we’re not able to we can’t get Qui over there we forced Russia into a very dangerous alliance with China we’ve made Putin immensely popular in his own country we’ve shown we’ve we forced brick the rise of bricks which is now threatening the the domination of the American dollar is the global Reserve currency and we put Putin in a position where his economy is stronger than it’s ever been and more independent from the world economy which means he has the capacity to do bad things to the world economy but if you were president but if stronger than ever all right but if your president come November and this war is still going on as it’s quite likely to be how are you actually going to resolve it because Putin is not going to give up any of the land he’s taken I would NE I I would negotiate how though I would negotiate you know listen do I don’t know if you know this I don’t know if you know this be president zinsky has passed a law law in Ukraine making it illegal to negotiate with Putin that you know that you should always lead with diplomacy that’s what my uncle said that the primary job of a president United States we didn’t do that with Hitler was to keep our country out of War we didn’t do that with Hitler well yeah and I said that that was the one war that was a moral War but my point is we we didn’t deal we didn’t deal with with that German dictator we didn’t deal with him diplomatically we dealt with him militarily yeah but so are you saying we should attack all dictators that you know do you think that the Iraq give a last time last time I checked America believed in defending Dem and safeguarding democracy wherever it was in the world and I share your misgivings about lot of military conf well I do think Ukraine whether you like it or not Ukraine is a is a democratic European country it’s no sem Democratic and it it’s the and it’s the mo you know according to the World Bank it’s the most corrupt country in the world and we have no idea where any of this money is going over there there’s no accounting it’s you know and a lot of it clearly is going to enrich the oligarchs in that country but we’re killing kids unnecessarily my own son fought in Ukraine Pierce you know he went over there and fought in the car offensive or their Foreign Legion in Ukraine and you know and it’s not this is not a good thing for our country it is not a strategic interest in our country it’s not our job in our country to fight every dictator in the world and what if you what if you okay let me ask you this what if he wins Putin and he then decides to in invade one of the Baltic countries what would your view be then I don’t think that he I don’t think that he I don’t think there’s any evidence that he wants to do that but what if he did I I don’t think there you Putin listen Putin I I’m not again you know my answer to that would be strategic ambiguity I’m not going to tell you one way or the other if he attacks a NATO country we’re obligated under those articles to go to to support those countries what if China let me let me expand it what if China looks at looks at America being supine in its defense of Ukraine allowing uh Putin to win why would not that not be just a massive green light to China to then take Taiwan as they’re desperate to do I think it’s been a I think it I think it’s been a green light to China to show how weak we are in Ukraine and how depleted we are and how ineffective our equipment is we be even weaker surely wouldn’t we be even weaker if we if we let him win what we let Russia win I I I think that we look weak anyway and I think we are weak now and I think we’re weak because of the that you know that that our military equipment is bad at our um that the morale within our our military is bad and I think that just getting in continual Wars has been bad for our country try to name peers we’ve spent 8 trillion dollar on Wars since 2000 name one country that’s better off because of those Wars Iraq is worse off than we founded we killed more Iraqis in Saddam Hussein we drove we created Isis we pushed Iraq into a proxy posture with Iran yeah we drove 4 million refugees into Europe we destabilize every country in Europe we though you could trace that a straight line brexit in England oh these are the You could argue I mean I I would put I agree with you but I would put up an argument that the uh military operation in Afghanistan was just ified in the sense that there had to be a big response to 9/11 and actually al-qaeda’s ability to train in Afghanistan was severely dented by the military operation there I didn’t like the way it was suddenly ended because the Taliban just took back all the power that they’ they’d lost I would I would have liked a few thousand troops to have been left there as America and the Allies have done all around the world um but I you know I do think that the the ability to stop Al-Qaeda being as effective as they were was definitely a good result of the Afghanistan war okay well you and I different there I don’t think 20 years in Afghanistan the longest war in in American history and then you know inevitably turning it back to the Taliban I don’t think and having all the people who were allied with us for 20 years and we promised to defend knowing that ultimately we’re going to have to leave and we would leave them at the mercy of their enemies I don’t think it was a good result but what you can’t do surely what you can’t do you and I will differ there okay but surely what you can’t do you can’t let a bunch of terrorists take down the World Trade Center and not respond particular if you know where they’re all being trained and whe they’re being harbored similarly you can’t allow a Russian dictator to justang hang on nor to me can you allow can you allow Russian dictator to run into a a European country and here’s where I would put your slight moral I I would argue and correct me if I’m wrong I would say that this is where there’s a slight inconsistency in your moral worldview of these things because when it comes to Israel whose leader Netanyahu is facing corruption charges unlike zalinski uh and whose leader authorized payments of billions and billions of dollars to Hamas because it suited him to keep the Palestinian Authority and Hamas log ahads with each each other uh that you support without any equivocation continued ongoing support for that government and Netanyahu and what he’s doing when much of the world is enraged by the scale of the response to October the 7th and I would simply say that there’s an inconsistency there you you don’t seem bothered about Israel corruption or about the billions of dollars being funneled to Hamas to prop them up and yet that’s the kind of stick you want to beat Ukraine with where the leader is not facing corruption charges what do you say let me answer your first point first I supported the attack on toror to get rid of al- Qaeda in Afghanistan I did not support the Takeover of Afghanistan and I think that there there was an appropriate response to 911 and the US response under uh president of uh Bush and and vice president Cheney and Rumsfeld was a catastrophe for our country for the world for our moral standing around the world and for our strength I’m not a supporter of President Netanyahu I’ve been a longtime critic of him I was CR critical of his judicial reforms I’m not a co-signing anything for lud or uh president nanyo the Israeli government and and Israeli Israelis themselves are very very critical of President Netanyahu and absolutely dismayed and disgusted with his authorization of the 1.4 billion payment from cutter to Hamas and the reasons for he did it which he was explicit about to strengthen Hamas to make the you know to to make it uh peace impossible or any kind of conciliation with the Palestinian Authority uh impossible most people in in Israel are not supportive of president nyaho but they they are supportive of this policy there’s a Unity government as you know in Israel that is all sides and there’s a war cabinet that is represented by all sides and they support the need get rid ofas and you know I one of that war cabinet just the war cabinet is three people and one of them just resigned so they’re not all in agreement are they yeah well no but but Benny G did not resign in protest of any specific War policy no he resign because he doesn’t believe there’s any there’s any end game there’s no end game he says there’s no plan for the day after the war he’s right there isn’t well I I agree there should be an end plan as well so I I but that’s not the question the question is do we need to disarm does Israel need to disarm Hamas um before a ceasefire or get the hostages back and I would say the hostages have to be returned and amas has to be um disarmed or else how can you have a peace I don’t know how do you disarm how do you disarm but how do you disarm the rest of Hamas we’re not sure how many are left but certainly thousands of them when they’re embedded now in refugee camps amongst thousand hundreds of thousands of civilians millions of them and so every time you you launch an offensive against them as we saw with the apparent targeted attack on two Hamas terrorists in the Rafa camp and as he saw with the rescue of these hostages one of them led to 50 uh civilians being killed the other ones led to depending which numbers you believe anything between 100 and 274 people being killed so at what point does this desperation to eliminate the last members of Hamas get overtaken by the sheer volume of civilians being killed in the process which I cannot believe will do anything longer term than ferment the ideology that drove for mass in the first place yeah I mean you’re asking a lot of questions and I you know I I I’d like you to give me time to answer them sure you know and you could ask the same you brought up Nazi Germany as a kind of a an analogy for what’s happening in the mides and in N you know in 1945 or 44 at Casablanca uh Churchill and Roosevelt had an argument because Roosevelt said we have to densify Germany and if we don’t densify Germany it is going to um you know the Nazis are going to rise up and do the same thing again Churchill did not want an unconditional surrender for the Nazis he said we’ll have to kill too many civilians to do that and everybody will fight for the death but Roosevelt won that argument it we killed about about two million Germans during World War II in order to get into Berlin and den naify it today Germany is the richest country in Europe it’s one of the most powerful economies in the world I think it’s the fourth most powerful and nobody’s scared of Germany because it’s a peaceful country and today Hamas which is you know which is you authoritarian control of hasn’t won an election in 16 years of Gaza is a corporate kleptocracy and it’s absolutely in on one issue one issue only just annihilate Israel and to kill all the Jews and in their Charter amas has a provision that says it is against Islamic law to even negotiate with Israel except as a ruse so I don’t see how people who are saying well you should have a ceasefire then what then what you’ve you’ve rewarded Hamas for taking hostages and they’re going to keep taking hostages to get more and more advantage and this is this is by the way the fifth ceasefire they on October 7th they broke a Seas fire yeah yeah I know yeah are you going to go back to that status quo I don’t think there’s any future I don’t think you can have any future I don’t think you can have any future there with Hamas retaining any form of power whatsoever nor do I think Netanyahu nor do I think Netanyahu is a person that’s going to bring peace to that region at all no neither do neither do I I you I agreed on that well there we go you see that’s diplomacy of work in front of our viewers very eyes um I want to just ask you a couple of health questions one is you you got everyone going with this extraordinary Revelation about the the worm in your brain um did you expect the reaction that you got to that and what is the lasting consequence of of that health issue you had well first of all Pierce are you under the impression that I announced that to the world um I don’t think you did explicitly no no I didn’t I it was a it was a a a short discussion in a deposition almost 15 years ago in my divorce and the New York Times dug that up and you know made it announced it as if it was recent news it was a uh you know it was something I discovered it’s interesting it had no impact on my cognitive capacity um I did have at that time I was having brain fog and I was having some um memory and and word retrieval issues that I noticed nobody else noticed them and I ended up getting treated for that but and that was one of the things I discovered during the course of my treatment but it wasn’t something that um you know was any kind of a threat to me but a pretty extraordinary by the way I’ve offered to do uh well I was going say I apparently you I learned what I learned from the during the discussion of this during the disc because this was widely discussed after the New York Times published that article yeah I’ve learned during that discussion that a billion people in the world have that particular parasite really um it’s very very widespread yeah it’s very wise friend I I think I got it what my doctor said is I there were two ways that I could have gotten it one was in India where I had traveled extensively and um and the other was in the hog industry because I’ve been litigating against factory farms in North Carolina and Utah around the country and apparently this parasite is very very common you among people who are in that industry so I don’t know where it came from but you know whatever it was the one that was inside of my brain died on its own thank God so to reassure potential vter is there is no remaining worm in your brain yeah thank you very much Pierce and I I’ve said I’m very very happy to take cognitive tasks along with President Trump and president I would love to see that maybe they could end maybe they should get you on the debate stage and at the end put you all through a live cognitive test my money would be on you actually let me ask you also CU you’ve been doing a i you been your campaign’s been running for many well say you’ve been campaigning a long time it’s hard grueling work it involves a lot of talking never mind just the media but talking to people you meet talking to groups and so on and you you have got this issue with your voice that you’ve talked about very openly um it’s no secret and it happened to you in your 40s but how hard is it to just talk all day long when you’re campaigning um on your voice you know the the talking is not a hardship on me at all it’s a hardship on people who have to listen to me and I can’t listen to myself I if I hear myself on TV or the radio I turn it off really um I it’s yeah it’s painful for me to listen to it and I I know it’s painful for other people and I apologize to all of your audience and people all over the world I don’t actually I I don’t even notice it now honestly I don’t even notice it now I’ve interviewed you few times and to me I I don’t don’t very kind of you I don’t honestly I actually find you I find you a lot more easy to understand than Joe Biden well you know actually the uh I’m doing some treatments now that seem to be working really well and I I Cheryl and I went over to Japan about I don’t know like right before the campaign started and I did a surgery over there where they put a little uh titanium bridge in my in my uh vocal cords in Koto and um and it really helped me a lot but I’m doing a treatment now that that actually appears to be working really really well so I’m hopeful that’s great and I apologize to everybody who has to listen to me I don’t think you should ever apologize I think it’s it’s incredible that you have just basically I think made people not even notice I don’t even notice when I talk to you because I find you fascinating what you’re saying I don’t care actually about your voice here’s something I do care about pases my last question for you but there’s been a phenomenon that’s erupted in America certainly in my eyes in the last couple of weeks and it’s called Cricket now I didn’t realize that Cricket actually used to be America’s most popular sport before the Civil War in fact the first international cricket match ever took place in uh the mid 19th century between America and Canada in New York and was watched by by 5,000 people a day and last week America beat Pakistan which was in cricket terms unbelievable uh totally unexpected and was watched Again by 5,000 people a day in New York and it says to me that maybe finally because apparently in the Civil War soldiers gave up playing Cricket because it was too complicated to play in their downtime from fighting and they morphed into baseball it’s an easier game it felt more exclusively American but now I feel that Cricket’s making a massive comeback in America are you a cricket fan do you intend go to some of the games and do you feel that you’ll become a more civilized country the more you Embrace Cricket again um you know I lived in London for a year I I went to the London School of economics and um while I was there I became very close to um a uh uh to Lady Antonia Fraser to her daughter Rebecca Fraser and knew her father Lord Longford and to yeah and she at that time was married to Harold Pinter yeah who loved Cricket um the playright yeah and he loved cricket and he he forced me to learn the game and to watch the game with him so that was that is my experience with CR Cricket but I’ll say this I don’t know what you’re talking about because I have not seen this I’m very because I know how you know devoted Pakistan is to this Sports so it surprised me it gives me a lot of Pride that Americans are beating it it seems so counterintuitive because um because American particularly young people now have very short attention spans yeah and you know because of the the social all the social media and Cricket is a very long game with some long spots where nothing appears to happen well you see this is the okay so let me let me help you I hope you understand it because this is the T this is the T20 TW World Cup tourn which is actually only 3 hours long so it’s the same length as a baseball game right so it’s a much shortened version now test Cricket that you’re talking about when England play Australia in the ashes test series it’s five matches five test matches each one lasts five days each day is six hours play so that’s a maximum of 150 hours of cricket and at the end of it the score might end up z0 and we did that deliberately so Americans would never actually either want to play it or enjoy watching it it was a great strategy Robert we’ll leave it there I’m not going to keep pumping you about Cricket but it’s great to talk to you I think you’re you’re a brilliantly important figure in this race I hope you get on that debate stage I hope you keep creating mischief and holding them all to account because we need it uh the whole Western world needs you to do this an important role and I I thank you for coming back to uncensor thank you very much anytime Piers thank you so much for having me really enjoyed it thank you thanks again