Who should be the All Blacks Captain? + the depowered Boks v Wales “test” | ARP

2:20 Why the Hurricanes lost to the Chiefs
6:50 Should the Hurricanes have had a more conservative game plan?
10:15 What do the Chiefs need to do to upset the Blues?
16:20 Are the Chiefs midfield a key to their chances?
21:00 All Blacks selections – the contentious positions
26:50 Is Ardie Savea a 7 or 8 and how does that effect selections?
32:05 Who joins Barrett and Vaa’i as All Blacks locks?
33:50 Barrett or Savea as All Blacks captain?
39:26 Tipping competition winner Nick Horton
42:00 The state of Aussie rugby
46:35 Springboks v Wales

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[Music] hey K and welcome to the Alo rugby pot as you know we you know we like to talk rugby and this week as ever there are lots of things to talk about because we’ve got a Super Rugby final with the blues hosting the Chiefs the canes went down despite topping the table so there’s lots to unpack there and then that’s that thing we have every year with the All Blacks get named on the same weekend as the Super Rugby finals so there’s so much to fit in into an hour long show so let’s get into it as quickly as we can as well as Sav Wales A Barbarians game which is the end of Sam white Lock’s career your comments for the Players Sports ball so much to talk about next to me we’ve done a bit of a swap here Bren Hall in studio yep good to be here yeah yeah great to have you here of course and then we’ve got James Parsons down in Christ Church what’s going on guys you just couldn’t align I just built a house I think jipper is just having a look at aren’t you how was it yeah mate beautiful uh took the boys around there we we we kicked things off with the Canterbury Lads um so we we’ we’ve we’ve I suppose tip the cap to your house did you get vacuuming afterwards or no no I thought um B Bren could uh come home to a bit of a mess and you know that’ll keep him active and occupy he is a details man I’m sure you like a vacuum do you br you you a tidy person yeah yeah I am I am and saying that hang on just before he gets in just before he gets in I actually am a tidy person I am a tidy person my my partner can live towards that but in the the changer room Locker next to jipper it wasn’t one of my better ones growing up I must admit look at him just smiling he knows it as well he got similar treatment that my three-year-old gets he seen red every time we he’d be walking in he’d be Brun mate move that obviously a few expedites maybe but um yeah I got the got it pretty done pretty early on was a 20-year-old kid so yeah I got there in the end well a little bit better probably say it wasn’t you can send the voice to his father I probably need to thank Sam because it sounds like she’s taking a more efficient approach yeah yeah good delivery fair enough too all right okay so we got plenty to talk about let’s start just break down the semi-finals as we look towards the final before we carry on into the All Blacks let’s go chronologically shall we make sure that it all works inside my head the canes last week you said it you felt the Chiefs had a real good chance of getting up you know you felt deep down that that was something that could really happen and it went that way why did it go that way oh look I think you know for some of the points that I did bring up I thought you know their kicking game on the weekend um is a really big strength of them and I think having Shawn Stevenson now I actually thought it probably be a little bit of a hindrance knowing that he’s got a real big kicking game but I thought you know CZ and around his contestable games Daman McKenzie again even Raa Hipp showing some exits and been able to kick long they had 33 kicks again which I think is a pretty good DNA and 1,000 meters kicking seems to be the number that they tend to win games with but I think at the the same time we can’t underestimate that that start you know look after 15 minutes you know probably two tries first one ponan at I was ability to be able to to be able to set up that Tri for f now was unbelievable and probably one of the reasons why he was selected as an all black and then you know for two US bounce and around a charge down while Sati gets in quto artima who obviously has the best support lines in New Zealand at the moment scores that try 14 points and then a penalties is given pretty much at the 15minute Mark Damen McKenzie gets us to 17 n and know that that’s obviously a lot to happen within a 15 man in a 15minute span but like when you sometimes do that the Mike Tyson analogy in the comment is when you know you don’t know how hard it is until you get smacked on the nose and they got smacked on the nose quite early on with it being able to be under a lot of pressure so I think with that and then I think J has talked about a lot the turnover rate you know they had what did they have here hang on let just couple notes Here I think they had 16 Heron Handley ER errors and 12 within the first 52 minutes so it has been a common Trend that they have had and look the the the the Chiefs pounced on that and then I think with even in the the 60th the 55th minute when um brck Cameron scores this try and then I think the yellow card with Jacobson um Wallace at T and that intercept was a massive play with them being able to get the result Quarters at R gets their quick and they’re able to get it to the edge and I get stunt that momentum because you know just before that mby you know should probably score that try and ends up being 2120 going into the last 15 minutes with Jacobson coming back on so they just didn’t take the opportunities the high the high turnover rate that J will probably touch on that he said the whole year was a big big factor and the chiefs were able to grit it out and get the job done and in tricky conditions in tricky conditions in in in Wellington did it surprise you jip the way that the canes Got The Yips a little bit see I don’t think it is The Yips like they just hadn’t I suppose got so far behind previously in the season um for me what I actually admire them because even when they got behind they kept playing their game like they had a high turnover but everyone’s sort of spoken about that like it’s a surprise they’ve had that all year uh that’s their game they want a chance their R and sometimes it comes off and look this season you know nine 10 times out of 12 it’s it’s come off um but it wasn’t to be on the final but there’s also um I think BR Los the Chiefs kicking game um I mean our stats are a little bit different but it doesn’t really matter the the the kicks were way more than the hurricans and and they just that defensive pressure and putting um the ball back in their hands and they know the hurricans want to play so then they just had to get good kick Chase and really challenging around um breakdown Force turnovers where they can and um the Chiefs are probably the best exponents and something Blues really need to be wary of is is from turnovers they honestly make you count like it’s no surprise that noada got that ball inside toale you know like they when they get a behind defenses they do Make It Count um so it it’s um yeah it’s set up for a ding battle and and you know if they L are to give as many opt opportunities that they gave um to the brumbies you know it’s it’s not all said and done that they’ll just clean this up at home we’ve talked a lot around around Ruben love and his ability to be able to get the ball away on the edge and look if you look early on in the piece the the Chiefs put a massive amount of line speed pressure around the hurricanes and you know for most of the Year those passes have been able to get to the edge but because early on with how much line speed there was um you know you have to think about situationally being down 7 points and obviously with the wi conditions that were there we weren’t seeing those passes stick and then being able to then go on on top of teams on the edge you know with like Mo then you obviously got ly Flanders Shields and you know dupy creef whove been able to get go for ball so yeah I think the chief’s defense was was really really good and it’s something that the blues will have to look at you know and they’ll talk around being a little bit deeper deeper with their pivots and they’ll have a kicking game strategy what they want to do but I was really really impressed with the Chiefs and the line speed pressure that and and really made it really hard for the Hurricanes to try and get around them we’ve had a question come through from John Cooper and it’s a good one um from an amateurs view it seems the hurricans coaches used the same approach in the first half of both playoff games which required Precision in the passing game with a lot of flat quick passing the can’s flow looked off pushing for extra meters versus going down to keep momentum and not being aggressive on hitting holes so was this maybe not the best strategy to continue with in in the playoffs should they have come more to what we’ consider playoff rugby jet not for me Ross I I don’t think like I think um when you spent that many weeks playing a certain style to change in the finals could have they been more conservative um I don’t think they would have been there had they been conservative so I think they went out swinging um the way they wanted to play could they learn from it yes I’m sure they will be having those discussions we got two sides in the final that have had to have similar discussions and learn from it and and both have you know made pretty impressive adjustments um particularly defensively and we know finals 4 defense wins championships and the Chiefs victory was all based off defense either through you know the click Chase and first turnovers intercepting putting them in a position yeah look I just think off that as well we’ve talked around in finals footy it just comes down to a man of moments out l so the the whole year they’ve been able to get that passway that I’ve referred to with Ruben love he’s got probably the best distribution skills when it comes to fullback and put in that last pass away and a lot of other players as well even you look at rayi in his hand but the margin of era was so when that comes back for a forward pass so the only bad thing about it for the Hurricanes is that they will have the learnings but there’s no more weeks the finals done and it’s that’s what’s the great thing about player foot is you’ve got to try execute and get it right on the day and also if you’re not being able to adapt on the run which the Hurricanes were able to do in a lot of those those moments they’re able to get a bit of momentum and like I said with that Rona try Rona try they were you know making their way back into that game but unfortunately one thing in a play like Wallace a Titi who’s able to go to intercept and they score a tri off that it just seemed that the the the Chiefs had a few opportunities and they took it and that’s the that’s the beauty of the player footy when you’re able to try to get it right in in high stress situations and the Chiefs probably that just a little bit better than the H on the weekend so could be that the canes are another year away from being that final team John we’ll check you out the player sport ball thank you very much for your question um Jer do you have something else to add here I was just going to say like I think people of count saw C of thinking you know once you’re in the final or at home like it’s just easy to win uh because the Crusader success but what I mean I’ve said it before previously what they did over that six years spin is just incredible um and it’s And I stress again these two teams have had to go through some hurt to get back to the final and and I think for the hurac they had a good enough they had a a championship running Spore uh in coaching team this season yep they didn’t execute on the one night they would have liked to to get themselves all the way there for a home final but I do think they’ll be better place and and the one nice thing from the fans point of view is that the amount of teams that are contesting for the championship now in Super Rugby is is widening which makes it much easier competition and we are down to two now the Chiefs last week you said they could go away and win it this week we’re in a similar position they’re going to a team higher on the table yep they did lose to the blues although at the end it felt like they won it because they stopped that bonus Point try that stopped the blues getting top all the same we end up back at Eden Park for the rematch with bad weather by the looks of it the long-term forecast says Friday Saturday Sunday Rain M are the Chiefs set up to go to Blues territory and win in the wet I think they’re set up for it whether they can do it or not um I just don’t think you know the the weather conditions is probably something you know that’s all they need to do like I think the way that the blues are playing this year the physicality is going to be really massive look on the weekend you know they had a better um gain line percentage that they did against the brm we talked about that being a big part of that game against the bumes because it’s what they’re really good at and they knew they had to come to Eden Park to try to get that done so that tight that tight five that eight has to do a job against the blues cuz look there’s no secret the blues have done it the whole year the DNA you look at the first four you know the first 20 minutes and how much um success they got into that 22 I think they had four entries and they scored four tries within that first 20 minute span so look the Chiefs will know that they have to do that but like I said last week and throughout this year if Shan Stevenson comes back into that um into that team it brings up the exit zones a lot easier and they can be able to um kick those long meters and find grass within the middle the field or kicking it long in kind of the exit zone areas which I think they’ve probably been the best um more so in the last month that I think using the kicking game and been able to do and I thought also quter at ARA his last probably three games I think has put him into the conversation of being in that third that third nine I know he’s he’s got very good support lines in his scoring tries but look ability and big moments in games the contestable game that he has shown growth in that area and also the kicking long off nine I think be really crucial cuz Finley Christie I think he in New Zealand is the best exponent of the Box kick and been able to kick Under Pressure which is going to be great for blues fans in that um in that quadron with that weather coming but I do think the Chiefs have the game to do it with that kicking element that I’ve just touched on but also the physical they’ve got to win that non-negotiable but lastly the way that they play in finals footy they don’t go away dyps drips played against them lot played them in finals they do not go away so if it is tight through the experience of what they’ve losing finals and the blues as well both teams are in similar situations losing Finals within the last two years it’s just been able to see very similar to the Hurricanes can you get the job done when the points are supposed to be there and in situationally in moments when the game’s on the line are you able to adapt and are you able to to get the job done with what your role is in those last big moments what do you think Jeff you know the Chiefs are going to be in the fight they’re going to challenge in every yeara but couple of key steps like the canes did um only allow 35% game line possession um for for the Chiefs so they weren’t always kicking on their terms they kicked a lot but not necessarily on their terms so the more they can do that that kicking game of the Chiefs Under Pressure especially in the wet I think that’ll be a key factor um and then I suppose of Blues they got a little bit cute coming out of their half a few times at line out time um which caused a few turnovers and then disciplines well piggy back the brumes into their territory so I know they’ll be focusing ity on making sure they can control what they can control and and you know similar to the canes is you know they still want to play their game but they they do want to be a little bit smarter I believe in their territory because they gave the brumes nine entries brumes only scored on two occasions but you give nine entries um to the Chiefs statistically it says they’re probably going to pick up six tries and then you really will be chasing your tail to to try WI a final when you’re having to score 4550 jip just sticking with you samon Taho you know it looks like he’s got a relatively serious Archilles injury uh we saw also Slater got an injury and MCL might be available got Tyron Thompson as the backup which you know is quite is quite a good backup do you think that that plays a big part in this final considering the strength that Taho brings oh man I think if you’ve seen the way Ty Thompson’s played when he’s been given his opportunity he can play a very similar role um you know he hasn’t had his many reps um obviously in terms of the set piece at line out time and scrum during the year I don’t mean just at G time but even training so he’ll need to get some clarity and and you know like as BR always says for an attacking menu it’s no different for a lineup menu someone’s coming in you not only you know tan not you but getting an opportunity start then um the new person who is coming as with a squad is just simplifying that lineup I mean you just got to win the B quick throwings um you know with with trying to be able to get the ball in and out um and not not allow the blues to into the competition you know I hate to bring this back up you know obviously when the Crusaders played the blues and demoed that line at how how hard it was for the blues to try build that momentum and to try at least you know win the game through that so it’s not to say that the the Chiefs won’t do that but it is an important part of the game to be able to win your set piece and have parody in the end that’s one thing also I think the blues have done really well this whole this whole year when they’ve been in tight situations they’ve been in tight games they can go to that line out more they can build a penalty of their plumers kicking at a pretty good rate to try and score points when you need those valuable points and their scrum penalties they’re able to be able to especially wet night it’s going to be honestly a battle of just being able to get scrum penalty scrum dominance and while line out mes and when you’re in that position of the 22 which the blues have shown this year they’re not a fade to go to that 13 20 F 20 phase count of picking and going um cleaning long going past the ball and and you know almost submitting teams into defeat with the way they do so the Chiefs are going to have to be on there so no doubt what jip said With The Lean menu been able to get that for tyon coming in if Brady SL isn’t okay with that with that knee it’ll be a very important thing and the blues will be licking their lips knowing that you know they could be a little bit of um Kryptonite because obviously with the injury to Toyo now we’ve got another good question through from Julian Neil on email and you please email us Al sky. he said I had the pleasure of attending the tusv ler final last month and while it was an epic defensive performance from the French it definitely felt that the better 10 12 13 Midfield game from Linder would have seen them home do you think that the 10 12 13 combination and smarts of the Chiefs can see them overcome the excellent defensive structure of the Blues this weekend Oh I think they can I think anytime you can have an experience 10 12 1 it helps and you know they’re pretty lucky I think the Chiefs in and around having Dam McKenzie an told L Brown even you know arip he’s been there for a couple years now Daniel Ron is there quinty is obviously on the bench so there is a lot of consistency and a lot of dep within that within that Squad but I think it doesn’t matter if you have a 10 12 or 13 your four pack has to be able to to win the up front battle if you’re going through them on a tech you’re not going to be able to play on top of them with what their phase play shape and how tough it is to defend if those boys aren’t going forward yes you can go to your kicking game but at the same time you’ve got to win that collision and so I think the blues will be tested in and around that area not just in you know the Midfield or that kind of 10 12 13 but on the edges if they don’t get that um defensive pressure and slow down that ball but you know the whole year the blues have been in that 90 92% we talked about what what Craig McGrath’s done with that group and so it’ll be tested but I think you know it’s going to be able to see who ons that Collision dripper talks about a lot going through them you’ve got to go through them you can’t you can’t cheat the system there’s no cheat code if you don’t get that right you don’t give yourselfself a chance so yeah it’ be interesting you’re on the same wavelength there jipper yeah absolutely look I I think um it’s extremely hard to break down and the B’s tried a lot of um intive things a lot of chips in behind but some to work off the ball um in particularly by leaders like dton Pap saved a certain tribe working across the field then behind the defense when it been broken down Rico Yani as well used his Pace on a number of occasions when the Brum broke it down so it’s not only is it you’ve got to break it down it’s then the I suppose Relentless attitude to you know front up for each other you know you love we love seeing this is you know all the second third fourth efforts that you know you probably don’t see on TV both these teams have that kind of DNA in them at the moment the have it the blues have had it look even last week D papal goes all the way back 70 M stops to try get a turnover and has showed pictures of like that throughout the end there been a lot of them within the Chiefs and that Blues so that’s why I love when it’s all tight who’s the player that’s going to be able to do that second or third effort you know who’s able to go back 50 m get a steel within a big moment of a game and both these teams have players that can do that so I’m really looking forward to seeing how it all plays out and I guess more so you know a guy like Wallace a Titi he’s one game away you know you have to really think with his performances if he can have another performance like he did on the weekend um and a guy like him or guys that aren’t proven you’re really in the conversation of making a World Cup not making a World Cup making an allback team I think the Midfield um as well it’s not all said and done there so I think that battle of Rico Yani and and brown which is I reckon the matchup of the game especially in the wet um the 13s are just so critical in defense structures so that the Battle of those two mive and Cortez rer I genuinely think he’s played himself into being that that third nine now there was you know we’ve talked around TJ panata and finle chrisy who I think both guys are going to be there but I think with Cortez and how he’s played in big games in the last probably month I think has warranted himself being that third nine now there’s F faka probably hasn’t been in a in a strong team like quz and Noah hoan probably with the way that he did finish was in conversations but look I think what he has provided his his kicking game especially I think um the Chiefs have a little bit of a um two kind of kicking Style with Cortez being able to kick along with his left foot but then also contestable games and knowing the international level and how important that is the more times that he can put it on the money and being able to get that right puts him in the best position to be able to do that and he is the best supporting nine in the country and knowing Scott Hansen and um the qualities that he wants in his half pi the core rol is are very very important and Cortez has done that within the last month so you have been really really impressed with him and you know look if he can go out and have a performance against you know finle Christie you know two guys that were talking in around TJ pado on the weekend who he had a great game against and you play um a great game against a guy like Finley Christie yes you’re in that third position but look you could give yourself to be able to have a crack genuinely and being able to push those guys out with the warranted performance of in big game footy so Razer all that coaching staff have talked about this is where we want to see obviously it’s not at the um the heights of a test match but if you can play against players in this kind of forum this kind of way I’m C I genuinely seriously think gives himself a chance to put a little bit more more than 4ot than we were probably thinking a month ago it’s all black time Monday afternoon Scott Robertson names his first Squad a 32 man squad out of Christ Church it’s a smaller Squad I think than maybe would’ been named in the past for some of the Home Series 32 men let’s look into it Bren where do you think are the key places that we need to look at for this squad what are the places which are you know there’s conjecture over yeah look it’s been tough I think the the 32 so hard because obviously you know you’re probably going to be a little bit less underdone in student positions because it’s you know a lot of utility is probably going to be used but I think you know probably a couple of positions that I’m thinking is probably the third hooker and who’s going to be selected if samon isn’t available with and Cody Taylor I think Ricky relli is a person that’s you know put his hand up for a lot of years and I think this year especially warrant to be able to you know be in conversation with that you know George Bell was talked about last year but I think with maybe the introduction of Super Rugby is he ready I’m not too sure but tell I think has had a great season this year the locks is something that I’ve really struggled to see where they’re going to go with the injur of P2 pooto I think if he was if he was available you’d have a Scott Barrett tupo pet tooto and then obviously a guy that’s been playing really well at Super Rugby but because there isn’t that experience we’re probably going to see guys that have played um next to no Internationals but have played I guess all black 15 in New Zealand moldy I’m given opportunity so the Locking Stakes is um is one that I’m looking at also for me for myself as as the halfbacks I think Cortez at our team will come in for that third position with the way that he’s played I think they’re only going to select two tens I think it’s going to be Damen McKenzie and Bowden Barrett um with I think how the squad makeup’s going to be and then lastly would probably be the outsides and the mix of how many there are going to be because I think there’s obviously T ree uh Caleb Clark’s probably been in there obviously but I think Nano satu has had an outstanding year and the ability of him to be able to cover wing and play forb in the last couple weeks with Shan Stevenson not been been available I think he’s a guy that will be massive and just hearing Leo m interview last night thinking that um they are going to well obviously he might be pulling our pants down a little bit here but he did say that they were going to pick two two out andout 15s so the likes of Ruben love and a Shan Stevenson you know they’re probably two guys that I think are going to be that second 15 if bden Barrett I believe is going to be 15 and again I don’t know if they’re going to take a third cover 10 stepen p is in that conversation David haril possibly because you know he plays 10 12 15 and does he come into consideration along with the Billy Proctor who’s had a great season at 13 so a lot of areas that I think are really tough I think the utility um ability I think is going to be massive for that 31 32 those last couple of positions at the moment um I sort of felt my gut was thinking they would take um Stevie Bowden and Damian and I sort of felt that bod would be that probably genuine First Choice 15 man he played he played some awesome footy and really owned it in in towards last year yes he can play a team but you have to feel it’s similar to when Rich was around Daman needs to be on the field as well so maybe it’s um one could play 10 one could play 15 theoretically I think you know bod is um you know world class at 15 and so it makes sense to have him there I think Stevie deserves a genuine crack and more time in around the environment to to sort of H H his craft and and as we’ve seen with first FES um you know lot lot leaving and um one’s injured sabatical that depth and that experience all you need is one or two injuries um and that depth of experience um yeah can be tested and again I stress he has performed extremely well in the 10 Jersey at all and you know he’s done super R I feel St good has to be there um and then I think the makeup of the back three you probably looking to focusing on when potentially maybe up to cover but more you’re out and out Wingers like Mar may be um to make up2 I think the other area touch lock I think potentially maybe they just Nam three and and have the ability to think you sem maybe have to cover that due to his height and efficiency at lock TI because I don’t know how they’re going to squeeze that Luci Trio down um I know I’m not giving a lot of answers here but I think that’s the most exciting thing that’s the squad isn’t predictable uh but you know does Sam Kane you know where’s he is he is he available and you got to think he’s made the bulk of the tackles for that Luc Tria for the last few years he he has played an important I supp thankless task um and so the makeup of the uh loose forward Trio and the roles that they play you know made differ if he’s not there um so yeah BR up more questions than answers but it’s also is it has it has created a lot of excitement I believe in the naming which hasn’t been there for a while and I think the unknown of these coaches you know I sort of don’t know which way they’re going to land I think we’ll see less yeah and I think you know we can’t probably underestimate that there are there are 32 players that are going to be named but there are going to be injury covers and they will have probably you know two or three that will be along with the squad because they’re out injury so they might be able to then pick pick from there do you know what I mean but yeah I agree with around the locks and being able to you know that’s the Luci that’s probably the hardest thing for me what that what that split’s going to be how do you choose out of s Pap Jacobson suu blacka Wallace A and Brandon you said ly dupy gy you know like you know like man it’s it’s just so hard you you don’t know for me you have to start at sa is he a seven or is he a eight and once you’ve made that decision you can build from there well I think you you obviously afford but for me you know s would be he’s an eight who are you picking at seven and who are you picking at six this is the hardest position to to do um if I put you starting yeah starting I would go severe papal and I’d go blacker yeah blacker at six black header at six as far as line out options are concerned that’s that becomes a little bit more difficult it’s not an out andout tall guy in the forwards who’s a proper line out option yeah he probably actually just talked me out of that right now isn’t it cuz I think you’re right the line out option is important um if it’s not if it’s not a black header then you know Jacobson and I feel like Jacobson and black header are going up against each other I think they um are really good in around 6 seven they can cover multiple positions have a pretty similar game in around the physicality break down and being able to have a big engine they both have those those traits now I don’t know if they’re going to select both of them CU if you got similar traits and you probably better off maybe having a fale you know a seon female who has that kind of line out option and Hoskin obviously is a number eight Callen Grace or AOS that can jump on a line out um but on that note I’d just have to go maybe it’d be a severe papal and then a fale for that line out experience that you are talking about if they don’t think that they can cover that with severe Pap and blackout at six that’s been my thinking to try and least get some clarity around how this loose forward’s going to be picked yeah well I mean the way I’d see it and you know I’m put putting my theoretical coach head here um the reason whyi has become the best player in the world is because we’ve allowed him to played with strength which’s which is his ball carriers power game if you put him at seven he’s goingon to have to make a hell of a lot more tackles and and I don’t think that’s necessarily smart it’s become the best player in the world at number eight as number eight that can move to seven um later on the game but the more times we can have his tank fresh so that he can have those big moments the better that’s why I sort of mentioned Sam Kane you know he’s F he is is there a transition period um you with with here or as it just ripped the Mandate off um you know black Jer shows that see even potentially Peter so I think first things first answer your questions name I I just feel like having s at seven opens up your options for a better balanc Lo Trio you know you’ve got to have a big car ball carrot number eight who is kind of more of an international Ball Carrier size and then you can have an out andout line out wide ball carrier at six I feel like you hold yourself back by having him at eight in a lot of ways you know I feel as a a balanced loose forward Trio it feels better with him at seven to me yeah look I I think it is it’s it’s a valid point if you want to go through that theory then you obviously have severe there then you can have a six and eight that can have their light Hoskin tutu who has a great line on ability as an example who I think is the second best eight at the moment throughout this year so yeah to answer your question I don’t I don’t know who do you who do you think I look I for who would I pick who would I pick I would pick uh s at seven yep I’d pick satu to start with at eight as now at eight and I’d pick summer Penny F now at six as a hard running hard tackling outside channel line out winning option and then look to the bench and you look at black ad and play all three positions and maybe that allows you to have a person like Sati or your say who can come in as an impact ball carrying player later on in the game so you’re thinking maybe then a 6-2 split on a bench split on the bench give yourself Maximum Impact and then rely on the fact that in your backline you’ve got lots of people who can play multiple positions you’ve got multiple first five fullbacks you’ve got a second five who can play you’ve got a center who can play on the wing they’ve got that pretty well covered and you can say okay we’ll have a backup halfback MH and then an outside back who is multiple positions yeah yeah you’ve got your ja or someone along those lines I feel like if you pick a Caleb Clark and a t you can play them for 80 minutes you can have Maximum Impact and then essentially just cover as you need to um that would be my take but like you say it’s impossible it’s pretty Clarity man like honestly that was actually pretty good that actually makes a lot of sense makes a lot ofense well cuz when I looked at it and I sat down this morning and I was like okay how many props do you have how many hookers do you have how many locks do you have how many looses do you have it became really difficult with all of the tradeoffs but when push comes to shove the loose forwards is where your genuine impact is outside of those guys who are going to play plenty especially if you’ve got a scoutt Barrett who can play 80 y you know and and has a massive engine on him y you’ve got that ability but he’s an 80-minute player too yep so maybe it’s you you move to that loose forward and like you say if you’ve got a lock that goes down you’ve got a fale as well who can maybe slot in there if you end up in some sort of trouble during the game and you can move that around so that’s where i’ come from yeah then also I don’t think this will happen because we don’t have the depth of the stage but you know a Scott Barrett and a TV could possibly play six as well yeah but I don’t think we need we need we probably need them to be locks with obviously the injuries are to Petty but I think if Petty was back you know there could be that question that does Scott cover a six a six roll do you know what I mean and he has done it fairly well my only problem with only fcking three locks Y is that we’re at a position where you’ve got very little experience Barrett has got a lot of international experience V has mixed experience in big games he only comes off the bench every now and then in big games because we’ve had that big three locks he’s been a real support player so then if you lose both of those guys to injury and you don’t spend time during this next month giving Walker Le a wed and da some time you’re going to get to the rugby championship and you’re going to be up creek Le say a few positions might change this week in my gut says you’d have to think Walker Li would get that third locking spot um but who’s to say sander doesn’t have a big game now I think it’s the same at number eight you know hos is is he seems very focused even when his player of the match in F three game last week he was like job’s not done you know he just seems very zoned him he knows he needs another big performance because he’s the big difference between the blues winning and losing SE he knows that responsibility press on him for that team but also if he gets that like um you know that selection will be there I think know before I thought he may get some ownership time or something but puts another shift in like that you know he’s definitely knocking on the door saying yeah you take on Captain C there appear to be two contenders Scott Barrett is one considering his time at the Crusaders has been very successful Ari sa is another considering he is the World Player of the Year and has been a leader within the hurricans environment and a vice captain of the All Blacks along the way which way did they go oh it’s really tough I think you know collectively those coaches will know what what they’ll want to see um as a captain but I think first and foremost as a captain you’ve got to be selected first in that team you you’re know that you’re always going to be on the field you know so you know probably Scott and and AI live to that kind of mentor of like you know as a New Zealand player they’re going to be on the on the field I think both of them are world class obviously ad of s has just become the best player in the world and he’s been doing it for a very long time Scott I think is getting to that stage now where he’s the premier lock with Bry rellik and um Sam wh loock on and he has shown some really good um growth in the international level and at Super Rugby level and I just think it’s going to come down as well to I think you know winning is really really important and being able to be adaptable and I think having you know you look at Richie mcco kieren re obviously Sam Kane was selected the guys that have really good adaptability and understanding situationally um what’s required to to win games and being comfortable being uncomfortable and in tight situations as a big part of being Captain so so who would you pick I I actually don’t I don’t I don’t know because I don’t I don’t know I know I uh I haven’t had the chance to be able to be captain from AI but I know from all accounts from the guys that have been in the environment he has a big part in that environment and he’s the world player of the year he’s kept in the All Blacks before um so he could obviously do that and I’ve obviously been Captain under Scott Barrett great man um has some great leadership qualities and is getting better at the international so I actually can’t answer it Ross I can’t actually answer let me change the question then I answer who do you think they will pick well you can’t go past Scott can’t you look Razor’s you know obviously the been he’s been his captain at the Crusaders he knows him as as a person um but you can’t take away from what ‘s done as well ay has a big um a big positiveness in and around that all black environment what he’s done with that leadership group and that team so with whatever way they do go like they’re both two great candidates I just think just KN raay and probably you know the only reason why I’d say that is because he’s picked him as Captain at the Crusaders yeah two great J take the heat off me man I can’t pick it I can’t pick it so who do you reckon hey BR can I just ask a question I was just having to think why you were talking there um did Ros ever put co- captains for the Crusaders or did he always go out andout Captain um no he’d go all in yeah always an out andout Captain I think the only time he did a co- Captain was when I think Sam was in Sam was in Japan and it might have been Davey Davey and Cody that might have been co- captains but I can’t imagine him going co- captains but if he could if he did like you can do he Pi an off the field Captain as well as an on thefield Captain I remember reading about that was there a person who did more of the leadership off the field in order to take the pressure off the captain on the field oh look I just think Sam did that just naturally right I think knowing what his ability was to be able to get you know get the best out of the group and had a real good um understanding and grasp of what was what was required it take the it took the pressure off Scott and probably Scott you know when he first was Captain Sam had all that experience probably the reason why I was given to him is because Sam went off to Japan and so right here has a good chance to be able to build Scott as a captain and where he’s got a lot better in that space within the last three years being with that group but um yeah to answer your question in and around that was more so Scott it’s been able to take the pressure off you know your leaders in other areas it wasn’t just like Sam white loock but other players get times Cody Taylor David haril were able to talk to Razer and take the pressure off Scott or whoever was the captain at the time to be able to try and get the the best out of them and then I guess um taking the responsibility away from the captain off the field okay jip you’re in the firing line mate who would you pick and who do you think they’ll pick I know one thing that is extremely important with a captain is that Captain coach relationships so um I suppose competition or spots would suggest um you know Scott might have the inside running because he’s obviously got relationship but then understanding Jason Holland has that relationship with as well and I don’t think you can factor out Cody either but you’ve got to think with the explosive power that tally come off the bench um you know you probably don’t moving you kept so then you know logic would tell me it’s like Scott ory or some good fence sitting here guys hold on it’s not fence sitting because I genuinely do think like Razor’s always been different he sees things differently and the idea of Co Captain seeing for the All Blacks doesn’t seem right because history says it should be one person there one thing I’ve learned which is from a far will not better than me um he leaves no stone unturned if he thinks um you know there’s there’s the potential that that gets the best go of the group I I seen on that can’t happen yeah a lot of questions just bring on when’s the date the 24th yeah yeah the 24th Monday 24th Monday 24th and and make sure that you tune in to us we’ll be doing our show that night afterwards um so we’ll have a reaction and hopefully we have an all black coach on the show next week for a bit of reaction to it we’ll also next week be sitting down like we did last year doing a bunch of interviews with all blacks players the day after and slowly sprinkling them out in our show over the international season so you get to know these players and what makes them up a little bit more now as promised throughout the season the Tipping comp winner we get a spot on the show we had Bloon last year um was awesome value so we’ve done it again this year and this year’s winner is Nick Horton AKA kanes in Exile all lions and can’s fan not going to hold that against him uh tough weekend for Nick so we might need to help him through the the next little part of the show but Nick thank you very much for joining us mate uh appreciate it tough game on Saturday for thank you very much for having me tough weekend for the Hur unfortunately but uh good experience and standers some good step for next year I guess both the Chiefs and the blues have done recently so that’s why they’re probably in the in the big final congratulations for winning the tournament I was absolutely horrific this year alongside with probably jipper and Ross tell us what your secret was he was obviously 50/50 games the Hurricanes you probably would have picked in a lot of the games but was there any kind of reasons or anything that you had around picking teams to get the results yeah I think a couple of things first of all this year perhaps more than the last couple of years the Home Advantage has been really crucial and so I’ve tended to pick um teams that that were playing at home you’ve seen a number of the Australian teams obviously the brumes but the Reds and maybe even the fours hard to beat at home as well as the drawer obviously in Fiji um so tended to pack from home um tended not to get too caught up in some of the stories about some of the hard luck cases and then um probably what stood me and goods did this year but has failed me in previous years is I’d always pick the canes and never pick the Crusaders just way I was ready for that one yeah I probably go the other way this yeah yeah you you’d be sitting where he is yeah I would be now look where he is Nick’s right there so yeah should have gone should have gone with them this year like I really struggled with the rebels and one of Pacifica I just kept on jumping chopping and changing with them every week every time I went the other way they’d win and then obviously when I when I when I back them they’d lose were there any niggly teams you felt that that probably caused you the most hites um probably those guys I mean there was a sort of a bunch of teams around the 89 10 area that you just weren’t really sure who was going to turn up every week and the rebels I think especially with that they started the season so well um but then I guess got more into the New Zealand teams at the back end of the season and and the wheels kind of came off for them so yeah they were pretty tough I think I got better as the season went on and and and the draw made it a bit easier perhaps you’re kiwi but you’re Sydney based so you probably got a unique insight into Aussie rugby culture to some degree what have you seen over there about I suppose the differences between home and there and how rugby works and maybe why they’re just not pulling it over a long period of time yeah I mean everyone knows about how competitive the market is here with the NRL and the AFL and so forth but I think more fundamental than that Australia has an identity crisis with their rugby um the provincial Union set up is pretty much the same as maybe what we’re struggling with in New Zealand at the moment and they haven’t really got to the point where they actually need to face up to some of these governance issues which I think is a real drag on them um but fundamentally you know I think they the club game strong but actually building a foundation to make better Super Rugby teams and then obviously a better wab bees isn’t really there they haven’t work that out so maybe someone like David nuora coming in is going to make a big difference I went to I’ve got a mate who’s a um War season holder season ticket holder and went to probably about five or six warar games this year you’re getting good crowds on a Friday night at Sydney it’s a fantastic Stadium um but the waras will perform in patches and then fall away and I feel like a lot of the Australian teams are like that they have good moments they’ve obviously Got Talented players they just don’t seem to be able to at a Super Rugby level maybe also at a wab level maintain the concentration for 80 minutes that the top New Zealand teams can so that’s kind of where I think they really let themselves down now has the Australian public taking the news of Carter Gordon signing in the NRL that must well caught me by surprise on player this Talent leaving yeah yeah I I think so I mean talking to a couple of my sort of Aussie rugby loving mates here they’re all really disappointed that money’s been spent on you know NRL players that are probably unproven in rugby and you can’t retain someone like Carter Gordon who to me you should be looking with him and maybe know a l a to build a team around they obviously offer different things and kind of depends on which way the the coach wants to go but you know to to lose a player of of that you know caliber and and potential I think just really underlines how disorganized and um how where there’s a real lack of cohesion and maybe a lack of communication with an Australian rugby um because the rebels folding they should have been all Hands-On deck to try and retain him the other thing that I heard is that the um Australian RAB Union was very keen to get Gordon to move to uh the warar he wanted to return home to Queensland queenslander um and maybe that that had a role in the in the decision as well yeah so I think just on that I think we’ve always agreed that probably five teams is too much for them but now that it’s going to be four and if they can disperse these players into certain um teams like the force or the reds or whoever it may be I think we’re probably going to see more improved um Australian super egby teams because I think there has been growth this year especially with the results and competitiveness and we’ve talked around a lot being able to be for superb Pacific to be better the Australian teams need to be competitive so it’ be interesting to see Nick um if you think that’s going to be something they they should do yeah I I think they definitely should because you know aside maybe from the brumbies the bench strength of the Australian teams hasn’t been great and so you know by dispersing the the the rebels players amongst the other four um teams that should definitely I mean obviously a lot of them would be starters but definitely add to the bench strength and I think you know you’ve seen with the warar once they got a couple of prop injuries they were just pulling guys out of shoot shield and with all due respect to them you know they’re trying really hard but they’re just not of Super Rugby caliber yet and you know if you can’t scrum then you’re in deep trouble so bringing a guy maybe like tupo into the waras I think um means that they should have a great starting front row with um periki and and and Angus Bell and then a couple of quality uh backups as well so hopefully you know with the demise of the rebels that will raise the standard of all of them but just by basically creating better squads I think and just just what you said there I’m just thinking because they’ve gone to four teams so late do you reckon all the contract were taken up and and there wasn’t that much money and and I suppose the other teams to offer Carter what he probably thought he was worse the talks might have been too fast and a guy like qu Carter Gordon is going to get offered what you know half a million to 600k at a at a at a league um in a league team you know it’s pretty hard for not to be able to turn that down so not only Carter Gordon but I think you know a lot of players in those in that positions probably just haven’t had the time so yeah it’s it’s stough for Australian rugby DP but you’d have to think you know hopefully like I said if they can be dispers and I guess out to different te teams then like Nick said I think the depth in Australian reg will be a lot better knowing that you know 30 to 40 or to contract the guys from the rebels will be going to other Super Rugby teams in Australia okay let’s get on to the Tipping for the weekend then there’s only three games to really look at Nick let’s start with the final any chance at all that the Chiefs could go and win that uh you have to say with the way that they they played against the Hurricanes if they can bring that same sort of game plan against the blues they’ll be in with a Chance um however I think the blues Home Advantage is going to be decisive and just the way I mean you saw the way the blues just went to work against the brumbies the Fords rolling their sleeves up even without um Patty talatu they were hugely impressive and I think uh it’s going to be a big long afternoon for the Chiefs Ward pack but the blues to come out on top you know jipper agrees true um I think it’s going to be close as well but obviously I’m not going to waste everyone’s time and try and pretend I’m picking the Chiefs I’ll be back in the Blues this weekend okay BR I did say I did say Ross that you know the Chiefs if they got themselves into a final I thought you know that would be probably only the one of the teams with obviously them beating the Hurricanes away in Wellington um but I just think with how how the blues are playing um their forward pack in the way that they pretty much controlled that game for long period of time especially in the first half against the bromes um it’s pretty hard to see that they aren’t going to get it right even if it is raining Harry plumber has had some great tactical kicking along with long kicks been able to do contestable fin Chris’s plotted in really well coming back from injury so yeah I’m probably going to go for the blues but I would not be surprised with the Chiefs just knowing playing them in finals and I guess what is going to be driven throughout the week through Clayton and um Roger Randall and that were going coming up here knowing that it’s um they aren’t the favorites all the pressure is going to be on the blues and they’ll be boiling in and around um some messages to see that they’re going to go up to Eden Park and I guess do some inter ver what the Crusaders did not too long ago going up there and trying to Wi a final Eden Eden Park but I think the blues are a lot better placed considering with how their for pack has been the whole year and um they’ll be looking to that forward pack to try and get them over the over the line this week against the Chiefs the I mean you know very well the blues have lost a final at home in recent times you know yeah but I think I think they they’re in a better spot I think the way that they are playing um it’s a lot different to where they were probably two years ago I think what ver cot has coming and he’s done Nick um and jipper have talked about it like what they’ve done throughout the whole year at wi’s competition their set piece um the way that they brutally beat people up in and around the 22 area their tackle efficiencies in the high 90s so all those areas that you need for to win to win finals the blues doing that now the challenge is can they do it because you look at the Hurricanes who we thought would have a big Advantage playing in Wellington you get out to an early start and you’re 17 points down early on then you know it’s about adapting on the run and you know the blues have shown that this year but you never know when it comes into a final what the Chiefs can do and if they play like they did on the weekend they’ve got a every good very good chance of being in the Blues up in Eden Park right two other games this weekend South Africa versus Wales in a window that doesn’t really align with anyone being available at all the boxer got no Europe UK Ireland base players or anyone out of the Bulls who are hosting the USC final and the Welsh have got no english-based players a bunch of injuries and obviously all of those experienced guys who retired at the end of last year so this is a bit of a wild card game in some ways a development game Nick have you looked into this what do you thinking yeah really tough one to pick I I’m going to go South Africa simply because I think they’ve got you know a lot of guys now playing in Japan as Bren will know and they’re coming out of coming out of their season they’re going to be in good form um so they’ve probably got an advantage compared to the Welsh guys that are available that have come out of a very long um European season after the World Cup so I’m going to go with the world Champs oh mate it’s any side with Malcolm marks is is gonna get the CH of the the cat for me so I actually think it’s a very very strong side um to be honest with I know they are missing some key players but there’s a lot of World Cup winners a lot of experience and as Nick sort of alluded to that a lot of the players came from Japan play a lot of footy so that fres the one person out is laka um who was pretty good this season by the sounds of it in Japan but outside of that um on paper Bren you agree it’s all box yeah I think so look at being at home as well I think it’s always it’s always tough to you know to win in South Africa and I think even though you know a lot of those players are you know have the opportunity to play in South Africa I think you know on the back of winning the reg World Cup those Japanese players that um have had a bit of a long break will be be raring to go with along with them being in some long-term injuries as well but then I think also anytime you see a spring B Team you you know more like to the All Blacks it doesn’t matter who’s in that Jersey they have a lot of passion Jeff I am interested in your thoughts on the timing of these games I mean they are crossing with competitions there’s all sorts of unavailable players is it a good thing to do this or a bad thing to do this um well initially when I saw the SF Welsh game um Fiji barbarians doesn’t really bother bother me because you know it is a festival fixture but when it’s actual test matches but and when you go through the Squad of s Africa it’s going to be a pretty strong team so I don’t believe that squad’s development start there’s a lot of experience in there and obviously opportunity for a few others but the Welsh side I mean is probably the most consuming because a lot of their players aren’t available and it was more of a development team but I you know like they obviously from monetary point of view you’re not you probably draw as many people say 18 um so you can see sort of why they’ve kept it that way but is it make sense probably not um and I suppose it’s another Point yet again to the global calendar does it devalue test rugby or does it help make test rugby better by giving more players experience so that test matches to come turn out to be better across the board well I’m just going to say that’s probably the one good thing about it right um obviously the the the international window that we have these kind of problems tend to happen quite a lot but it does give guys opportunities like there’s 12 new guys that are in that squad for the South Africans and there’s some more in the Welsh and you know whether it may be with the Fijian draw that guys that are going to opportun in this window as well so you get an opportunity to play for your country like jip knows you’ve been able to be an international player anytime you get to put on that Jersey and you’re able to have a chance to be able to St your claim for a rugby Championship even at end your tour um you’re able to do that so um yeah you’re probably on the same line same line lines there jeer yeah yeah I am and I was just thinking then like some Nations might have seen the spring blocks over the last foure cycle and see how often they did provide opportunity for the next tier players and how I suppose valuable that’s been come with upup time so maybe it might be a Strate yeah well trying to employ and um you know you got to say good on them for trying to turn things up because something would change if they want to get the results there after I don’t think you’re ever going to see New Zealand site to be able to do that and I think that’s why we do have a strong sort of multi all blacks and all black just programy to allows for that um development as well and not be forgotten well Nick thank you very much for joining us today mate awesome incredible knowledge um would you like a spot on the show permanently guys thank you very much for having me and thank you also every week love listening to the podcast so really appreciate the opportunity to come on and chat with you all thank you great and of course James Parsons uh down at the airport we’re about to say you’re at the airport Cher yeah just in uh The Humble cot Lounge in choss church actually in in BRS territory all right have you filled the plat so how full is your plate in the have you filled the plate in the C Lounge you’ve are you one of those people who tucks in are you one of those people who just kind of flows through I’ve eaten this thousand times before yeah no it’s not so much the food but the coffees get a good nudge you can actually see are dilated chip does love a coffee in the old C Lounge been able to travel with him a lot so you get one one boarding won’t you boy oh yeah yeah I’m just hanging out for you guys to talk for five minutes on nothing off and grab off screen his phone’s actually pinged three times telling him that it’s ready just that last couple of minutes absolutely absolutely BR great to have you in studio once again as well awesome and thank you very much for joining us once again on the Alor rugby pod SE please send us an email Alor rugby pod sky. codz comment in the YouTube comment section of course you can catch us on skysports platforms on skysports YouTube you can catch segments of the show on Rugby pass’s YouTube as well as on Rugby Pass TV thanks again for joining us we really appreciate your time [Music] Marte for