From Tour de France to Ultra Running with Christian Meier | Just Ride S2E9

In 2014, Christian Meier got the call from his road cycling team he’d always dreamed of: “You’re racing the Tour de France.” It was the culmination of the years of riding, sacrifices and dreams that so many young cyclists have, yet so few achieve. He’d made it to the summit of his sport.

Ten years later, having hung up his competitive wheels at the end of 2016 to pursue other interests, Christian stands at the top of another sport. Having stumbled upon his love for trail running during the Covid lockdown, the Canadian became good. Very, very good. So good that in 2023 he won the legendary TDS race around the foothills of Mont Blanc: 145km, with over 9,000m of elevation. He won the race in a staggering 19 hours. Rob and Eliot couldn’t quite believe what they were hearing.

This week’s chat with Christian is a fascinating exploration of what it takes to peak in two elite endurance sports, and how sporting journeys can be so changeable. Christian even started out as a downhiller!

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today’s guest is a former Professional Road cyclist he’s an entrepreneur and a business owner and now is one of the finest Ultra Mountain runners in the world we can’t wait to dig into this incredible guest’s remarkable sporting Journey welcome to just ride Christian Meyer how are you thanks for coming in thanks for having me and we’re going to get into the ultra running we’re going to get into the tour to France and all these other incredible Feats that you’ve achieved in this amazing career of yours but let’s right at the beginning cuz me and Elliot know that at the start you were a downhill racer a mountain bike downhiller correct I was a mountain biker and a downhiller mostly yeah I started with downhill it was amazing uh interestingly I grew up middle of nowhere rural Canada you know farming and Forestry that’s all we had and one day I went into town went into town wow big gu out headed into town this like news stand in in the mall and there was this uh mountain bike magazine and I look at this the cover and it was just this like most amazing bike I’ve ever seen in my life downhill bike yeah something of spice this big suspension it was like a dirt bike without the motor and I was just like yeah that’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen and I just bought the magazine I was just sitting at home for like weeks just like flipping through Page after page rereading and rereading how old are you at this point I was 15 oh yeah 15 and then I was like I got to do this like this is this is looks so epic so I was saving all my pennies saving all my pennies but uh I was actually too young to race downhill at that time but still bought my first bike and I would go and then I was racing cross country on the side doing whatever I could and then the moment I got the license I was just like all in and what did you race Canadian Nationals and stuff there uh yeah so we had like you know the Atlantic Canadian series but we go up to Quebec quite a bit cuz they had like R East Coast right yeah yeah yeah yeah that was in the time of like Canadian Free Ride yeah yeah you know um West Coast was just starting the whole like Free Ride scene and and all that and actually the big thing where I lived CU we had like a really small community these like downhill guys um and some of them were like really good National level Racers the big thing was going out west and they would go yeah going out west and they would go and they’ work at Deep Cove Bike Shop which was like one of the first like Epic bike shops and then they would go out there and they’d spend like a summer working and just doing like the whole Free Ride thing and then like you get like these sort of messages back home right you wouldn’t believe what they have out there and like you know they’d like send you photos or like you get this stuff of like oh this new suspension or whatever like these epic bikes and like bring stuff back and it was like it was a pretty cool time you it was was it the early technological advances was so interested in like in down as well it was it was a mad time the early the early start start downhill ring yeah and Christian I mean it is interesting like Rob was saying in the intro you do so many things now what when you introduce yourself how do you introduce yourself now right like cyclist entrepreneur downhill person uh good question I guess I don’t uh I’ve really thought about that I don’t introduce myself so much to people’s yeah exactly um no it’s true I mean there a lot of stuff going on but you know kind of I don’t know it’s kind of difficult to identify as kind of one thing really and kind of to be honest I try to kind of move away from trying to identify as one thing or attach to one thing because there’s been moments where to me I’ve actually struggled with that you know there was a moment where when I moved to trail running and I left cycling for probably more personal reasons I really struggled with that identity crisis of like well I’m a cyclist like people only know me as a cyclist and if I’m not a cyclist what am I and like you know all this sort of stuff and it was just yeah kind of identity crisis yeah for sure so after that I was like you know what I’m just going to do what I love to do whatever that is and you know that’s it it’s so interesting like we’ve we’ve had this conversation a couple times on this podcast about this transition and I think that you embody this so much because you’ve made you’ve made transitions but you’ve also made transitions to like another Peak if you will um and it is so interesting that process that you go through of I only know myself as this like you said I other people only know me as this but I’m so much more than that like do you I guess do you have a favorite phase of your career um that’s a good question I mean I think transitioning to different sports and different things like I’ve always had a lot of interests in my life and that’s kind of been a theme since I was a child like I really when I was young and someone asked me oh what do you want to do my answer is I want to do everything right I don’t know like everything was like interesting to me and and not enough time almost is yeah exactly and like even during cycling at the end I mean I loved cycling and I love the professional side and I love the racing and I love uh for whatever reason I feel most natural doing physical things that’s kind of always been my my thing um but when towards the end of my career one of the reasons I left professional cycling was because we also had these businesses that we started which were in coffee and I’d become really enamored with everything to do specialty coffee and I was getting so into it like you know scouring the forums about like how to like you know all the nerdy downb like I do that in everything it’s like a tendency it’s a good and a bad thing but like and and then I was like oh wow this is super cool and we have these businesses and yeah I’ve been Racing for a long time it’s cool but like I kind of really am into this right now right not that I don’t love cycling anymore but I was willing to give up the professional life of cycling to follow this new interest that just kind of felt natural even though it wasn’t a physical one no because to me me the thing was I could leave professional cycling but I was always going to ride you weren’t leaving cycling no exactly like to me the racing was always kind of a byproduct of just wanting to ride my bike it was like the way that I could being a professional just allowed me to ride my bike every day like for me training was my favorite thing really even yeah even now like even in in running training is my favorite thing like I like racing cuz racing is it it’s a goal it’s something you build towards and it’s a moment where you can it’s a stress yeah but it’s a moment to where you can kind of uh see if everything you’ve done in training has to become Frack mechanism exactly yeah exactly well so tell us tell us about like how you went from riding downhill bikes on the east coast of Canada to being one of the best domestics in cycling so when when I started and I got into downhill and mountain biking and the whole thing growing up in Royal Canada it was like loved it and I loved all cycling at that point you know I was doing downhill cross country cycl lacrosse I was riding on the track like anything I could do I was like oh this is awesome and you had busy parents then taking running all over no that’s another thing because like to me when I growing up uh cycling was my Independence well that’s right it was me because before you get carys you can get on a bike and go where you want totally that was totally it like that was my thing like I can go explore I can see the world I don’t can with your legs I was limited on I was on a limited run down to Henley on T for aut back three block away so that was like it was actually my thing and in the beginning I didn’t like really let my parents come to like my biking stuff did you not no because it was like yeah I there was a small club that I joined in my town and I had like the group of people there that would go to race with and stuff but like it was really just for me and so it it’s a bit different and like and then you know just loving all aspects of the sport and everything I was like okay I just want to ride my bike every single day so what am I going to do and I thought well the best thing I can do is become a professional athlete right then I get paid to ride my bike and I thought okay what’s the best way to do that like just sort of logically putting some steps I should become a professional Road cyclist because Road cycling um I have the best opportunity to to make like a good salary to have a living wage to like maybe move to Europe to do all sort of things I just want to point out at this point though that downhill and being an endurance athlete in my opinion like it’s both cycling but only just like they couldn’t be further away you couldn’t have taken a much bigger step from where you were into what you did really I would say one thing to remember where I grew up is we had in in our town a small ski hill where we hosted a Canada Cup Downhill race that was around 25 km from my house so I had to ride from my house into town and then I had to ride from town out to the ski hill not on the downhill bike on the downhill bike that was the only way I could get there so it would be like it would take me like 3 hours to ride there God and then you were warmed up and then like you’re like all my gear on right no just like rid and I I’d ride my D back to school I was like it was like 20 km well every day not every day now this is starting to make sense where I I’m glad we dug into this but but if I wanted to go downhilling like after school or something I’d have to get my bike there so I’d ride my bike to school and then after school I’d ride over to the ski hill and then I would do runs but then also uh and this is mental thinking about it back obviously single chain ring like m thing and then I would ride up the ski hill on the downhill on the downhill imagine seeing like your competition you’re like like your your dad is like well look at Christian he’s riding from his house he’s riding up the hill like what are you doing yeah yeah exactly but like to me it was just totally normal because it’s was like this is the thing I love to do like I want to go and do runs the only one I’m going to get there’s I’m going to ride my bike out there and it’s just like okay well just ride my bike out there like it just seemed like totally logical yeah and times have changed so much but in 95 1995 at cap die when it was probably the first time I went there for my world cup you probably don’t remember Jason mccroy was one of the early British downhillers an incredible athlete like yourself and at C ey his warmup in the morning was to ride from the bottom to the top of the world cup track on his downhill bike and I couldn’t like it was a fairly it just blew my mind but that’s blown my mind equally but you know you’re I mean I’d go out there spend like hours getting out there I could only get in like three runs right because it was like like an hour and half get to the top back and I was just like two three runs and I’m like okay go home but the thing is I’d go there by myself and I remember this one time I like totally bended it like there’s nobody at the ski hill like it’s not open like the run is there and I once I bend it and I’m like just out there I’m realizing like should be pretty careful like I’m just my got this brand new helmet I you totally independent then it was something you really did on your own yeah yeah and I had this Bell I got this new Bell full face helmet that was like all Chrome and shiny and I got that and like the first run I bend it and like scratched the whole it was pretty hard cuz when I got home it was like you couldn’t really hide it from your parents that you’d bend it because your helmet’s just like destroyed on the side and they’re like what did you do I’m like um and yeah so from there long story short uh decided found a bike that pedal a bit better exactly decided that the road cycling was going to be how I should do it and I just thought well what am I going to do what’s the best how am I going to get there and decided I should probably go to Belgium because Road cycling is massive in Belgium you know it’s like a religion so were you at a decent kind of did you did you know that you’d be successful were you at a certain level of Road cycling at this point like because it’s a big move isn’t it just to go to Europe and go right I’m going yeah know I I had success like locally but but not nothing concrete it was a real chance you took yeah I mean but looking back not a chance I mean to me it just felt like this is just what you need to do like I just kind of felt like when I was young I told my parents okay I’m going to become a professional cyclist and I felt like I kind of chose that like oh I’m going to become a a brick layer or like any job you to me it’s like okay if you want to do a job there’s also a logical trajectory which is like okay I’ll go to school I’ll learn this trade I’ll do this thing yeah to me it’s like well I can do the same with cycling all I have to do is figure out what the steps are and then you but when you put it like that it’s actually you’re right it’s actually exactly what you need to do and I and I and I didn’t think like this is I’m taking a chance I mean I was still in high school so I just took like my last year half year of of school off uh went to Belgium made a couple correspondence courses and then went to Belgium for like three months and it’s totally wild I mean I had no idea what I was going to do when I got there and then like first day out riding I randomly saw these these guys who were like loading some some bikes on top of their car and parking lot and it’s like my second ride there and and these were like so you turn so you literally flew at Belgium rented somewhere and then was like I had I had an aunt and uncle that lived there so I was able to move in with them but you literally got there and went pedling just decided to start riding and see what happened and mad there’s no GPS’s like this is like pre you know put it in the old garment and bug her off it was like I would go with a map so I get a map in my pocket and just like ride One Direction for like I don’t know two hours look on the map where I was and then like figure plot a route home and on the second day I saw these two guys and they were like loading bikes on the roof of their car so I went and I asked them like you know I’m new here I spoke French and all that and it was like the French part of Belgium so felt quite comfortable I was like uh what’s the best way Direction generally to go riding you know we’re like on just on the south of Brussels and they’re like oh yeah you should going to head out this way toward Lo or whatever I’m like oh cool and then they started asking like oh what are you doing here I I’m like 17 I was like there’s kid riding around the streets in the middle of the day to be a pro any tips and so I started talking to these guys they’re like oh what are you doing here I’m like oh yeah I’m here cycling blah blah blah from Canada and they’re all cool and they’re like so these two guys um they ran Scott USA which was Scott was Scott USA time did is that right wow so Scott USA had this like uh benlock European Warehouse just outside of of of um that was like 10 15K from where I was living and they said oh we have this junior team like all Juniors you want to come and like train with we do training rights Tuesdays and Thursday you should come along if you want and just so I was like oh sweet so I went and turned up and then like shortly after they sign me up on this team so now I’m this like Belgian te well what was I feel like that moment um is really interesting in like an athletes life where you it it was like that first moment of feedback where you’re like I’m here here’s like uh the first step and you rode with him were you able to I’m I’m almost assuming that you were probably even more fit than they were able to keep up or yeah I was I was able to keep up but they’re super fit like sure I mean they were fitter than I was I mean these are you know in Europe these kids are starting when they’re like 5 years old it’s like every father’s dream to have professional Cy son in Belgium you so they were all like super and the racing was super high but the guys on the team uh they loved it because you know we wanted this this training camp we did this training camp on the coast of Belgium right so we’re talking like an hour’s drive uhhuh and you’re with all these young guys who are 17 18 years old and literally like their moms were coming to like cuz they were getting homesick hour way like a three day training camp on the coast you know and then you the guys who manag te love like look at this guy he’s from Canada 5,000k away and he’s here he’s so they’re like they love it you because they were kind of like having you know deal with these little kind of uh Mama boys but uh but that was super cool like an amazing experience then I went home and i’ you know really jumped the level and that kind of perpetuated things and but then it was it was a really long journey like it was super hard um because what to get to be in a pro yeah I mean we when we when I went back I got to do the junior worlds that year and stuff and the next year you go to under 23s and I remember in the under 23s um kind of my first year under 23 we did a national team project we went to Europe and we raced on national team and we just got annihilated like did you beyond like I didn’t finish I didn’t finish a single race in the pelaton no right dropped every single day like 5K into races just like 5K you’d be dropped the pace was that insane it’s it was like next level that’s hard to believe is it it was next level wow and we were 11 guys on that trip and when we went back uh everyone quit cycling I was about to all gave up they’re like this is not I don’t have like I’m not going to be a pro in Europe This is like Beyond me it literally blew their minds just how far ahead you crush their spirits and then I was kind of like well you know still hope right you know say the man who used to ride his downhill bike training but to me it was just again it was this logical thing of okay I came in here something totally new totally new level now I’ve gained some experience I understand what it’ll take you know you have power meters kind of water you need to produce and then and to me it just became a logical step of okay how do I get to being able to do those numbers training I need to do this and just kept grinding grinding and grinding and grinding and then like 2 years later uh went back to Europe and then happened to be close to one of the best under 23 riders in the world did you and did you really after training in Canada on your own again were you yeah and it was just like did that feel how did that feel to you to go back you were at one level two years at home in Canada away from Belgium away from all that and then go back like that that must have felt pretty amazing didn’t it it was amazing and was it unexpected um yes and no because you can also again it’s it’s logical like you you see the improvements you see things are happening and like you get feedback I mean I was also racing on a team we were racing all over South America and stuff so you see yourself growing as an athlete and as a person um but it’s just that like keeping going you know like to me there was not really any other option like it was just something you got your heart set on being a pro Road titlist that’s that’s what you got to do right but it’s it’s also that I just didn’t not like I didn’t have it never felt like an end all be all like I’ll make it or I had this pressure to make it or for some reason I just had this like I’ll be there it just it might take me longer than the kids who race in Europe because they have more it’s a deeper field development is quicker like it takes us longer because you know different levels but I just kind of thought well you know they’re all people like they’re only human beings yeah I mean why what’s going to separate for me other than you know the want to go and do that you know was there a moment that you you kind of look back and you’re like okay I’ve I’ve made it like I know you went to the tour in in 2014 and all that stuff yeah I mean you you the moment you sign so in in cycling in professional cycin have What’s called the stash here which is like kind of a tryy out right so a team will take you on usually in the second half of the season um and then you do that part of the season with the team Race and it’s kind of a tryy out and then usually you get a contract with the professional team this how it goes yeah so in 2008 I did a stag year with uh Garmin slipstream which is now kind of the organization of EF proy and I remember going and it’s such a funny story because uh you know I fly over to Europe I had some success now in North American stuffff and done had some good results and were you were you one of the big dogs from North America at this point would you say um is not the one of the biggest but probably I was relatively young still so potential wise maybe um but I remember going over and I fly to Spain right I fly to Spain because uh slipstream have their their bases in gerona so I get picked up by the director and you know team car everything at the airport yeah we’re driving to Tona halfway there car breaks down and it’s so funny because like luckily some reason this tow truck’s going by whatever so he picks us up but the tow truck only has got one seat in the front right so here I am in the car on the back seat all the way back CU it’s illegal to have someone in there I’m just like laying like this in the back of the car I’m like Yep this is awes I’ve made it aw it was so funny I thought you were going to tell us you just push the car like try I like this is I’ve made it you know and then you get there and they take you to the hotel and you’re like you know they’ve got a new bike for you like even has carbon wheels for training and like so suitcase you open up all this gear and stuff oh this is epic and then um and then so I got signed uh on a contract and it was like minimum wage everything I was like even with minimum wage it’s like I can’t believe they’re paying me this much money to ride my bike exactly and that was kind of for me that moment sure like looking back that so like looking back now after having done everything is like those are those moments when you’re like kind of just so happy right and it’s so emotional of moment as a kid almost like it’s so epic you know as a young person just to be like this is it this is it and then you go through a period of a lot of years where you know it becomes a little bit more work and you grind and that sort of thing and then there’s like you know a lot of special moments like doing the tour to France was a really special moment for me because um another great story you you sort of get a theme in this where it’s a lot of really I don’t know things lead unexpected things lead so for myself I was domestic I always wanted to be a domestic I never really wanted to be a winner you’re happy to be a domestic oh it’s like my favorite thing cuz I go cuz I love training and I love just like pushing and like so like riding on the front all day was like my dream this is itude just like on the bar just cruising pulling pulling and then at the end when it’s all like stressy and stuff you can just kind of sit up and yeah I’ve done my job I I love like my favorite like I was pretty I was pretty good like on hilly stuff um cuz I was small but my favorite was riding for sprinters cuz you could just ride in the front all day pulling for the Sprint right is that what you do all day is that that was your role in in that tour Christian we’ve um we’ve talked to a couple of you know we talked to G we talked to Luke row um and they you know Luke was the team captain you know Garren was you know one of the people that was winning the tour and so can you give us a quick overview like in your words of like what is the role of a domestique sure um yeah well domestique is essentially you you do as much as possible so that your team leader does as little as possible you sacrifice yourself yeah daily daily but you love it so it’s fine I love it I love it but I mean it’s it’s a very fulfilling role because it’s you really feel you have the opportunity to be a part of something quite big like pulling off a really big victory is something that’s really amazing and and cycling is very much a team sport right um and sometimes it’s not as prevent from the outside I mean if you’re watching people understand the team sport yeah but until you’re there you really understand how important it is to have solid team around you go into that a little bit more like explain because I we like you said like intellectually I know it is but but what does that mean so generally depending on if you’re riding for a sprinter or a climber or a GC Rider but generally it’s it’s sort of um the most basic stuff is getting bottles right so we go back to the team car fill up our jersey with water bottles bring them up for everybody right so all these things cost you energy because you have to drop back and then you have to ride back up and catch back up and do all back and forth then you have the Sheltering a rider right so you ride for example if you’ve got a little bit of crosswind or even if you’re just riding in the front you ride in front of that person so that they you essentially breaking the wind so they sh them as much sh as possible so it’s about 20 to 30% less energy sitting in a wheel than riding in the wheel yeah okay so that’s one of the roles making sure that your leader is always in a good position in the pelaton so that might mean that you have to take them up so they follow your wheel again saving them the energy so they don’t have to expend that to do that um depending on different types of leaders like like to sit in different parts of the pelaton and they also the way they move in the pelaton like some are really good at moving in the pelaton which is quite you have to move between people right others like to move on the outside is that right it’s so intricate it’s so intricate each each leader is very different so as a good domestique you kind of have to understand how they would like to ride because if you just ride up the side and they usually go up the middle they’re not going to follow you because that’s not how they’re like you want them to feel as natural as possible in their an extension of them almost essentially I mean that’s why a lot of times you ride a lot for a specific leader like CU once you have the same sort of ideas and understandings it becomes more seamless right right but then also if they want to stop for a piss you stop with them right and you bring them back up you know if they have a flat tire you stop with them and you either well one you can give them their your wheel straight away depending on the situation like if it’s a quite stressful moment it’s might be quicker for you just to give them your wheel and they carry on got yeah yeah yeah or you wait for the car bring them back up like essentially you ride with them all the time yeah the whole day um and those top Riders probably would have started in that role as a domestique themselves or not is that is that is it is it kind of the way through a team to the top it when I when I started yes nowadays no nowadays you got like I mean you got young guys coming in at 21 years old winning the Twitter France like it’s a different it’s changed so much oh man it’s changed so much it’s changed like when when I started like no matter who you were you started like your first two years was just getting bottles and doing stuff interesting and it was also those old school days where like on a Sprint stage you’d have like three guys go up the road you give them like 15 minute Gap right right and then you start riding and it was just like more chill now like you watch the jro I mean you’ll see like even on a long day there was a stage the other day it was totally flat day Sprint day super long 215 km like two guys go up the road and they give them like 2 minutes Gap you know that’s nothing you could easily let those guys get 15 16 minutes and you could ride them back by the end no problem interesting but it’s just the the intensity is really that’s what gar was was saying was like you know the young kids especially like even even at the front of the pel time they’re like fighting you know there’s there’s elbows getting thrown and all that kind of stuff yeah yeah know it’s totally changed that’s also was kind of one of the reasons that a little factor in the end why I decided okay maybe it’s time to to move on and and do something else with my life it’s mad it how we’ve seen have you it feels to me like we’ve definitely seen mountain bike get younger and when you say about you know the riders coming through now and peing inard paga and I can’t imagine when you said about they don’t come in and do the domestique like Tom Pitcock we had him on I mean he’s going to be pushing for a tour win Maybe This Year soon I imagine but I guess then he wasn’t he never really had to come through the ranks someone of his talent right and and and it’s that’s what’s changed is it The Young Riders at 20 years old can definitely be the best in the world in in these disciplines now 100% yes M and and you definitely notice sort of you know as most sports professionalize you know the the and more information becomes available and a lot of things change like younger Riders are already much more professional in how they’re preparing when they’re juniors right totally so that whole thing is just like it’s pushing and starting younger yeah but it will be really interesting to see like how those Riders progress because and how long their careers last yeah will they still be winning at 38 like Nino shies exactly exactly or does that just get pushed forward yeah well I would love for you I I’ve heard you like say some things about this and maybe you can kind of tie it into you transitioning out of cycling but the the like burnout um and then the like the sacrifice that you have to make as a professional athlete and kind of that balance between do I give everything right like do do I make this my entire life the only thing I think about which then maybe leads to that like if I’ve been doing that since I’m nine years old what do I feel like at 25 yeah it’s it’s quite interesting um for me personally I felt sometimes a little bit different because a lot of people always talked about I still talk about you know it’s very normal the things that you sacrifice as an athlete and that there’s a lot of sacrifice involved and it’s very difficult to do all the sacrifices I kind of never really felt that way I kind of thought like I don’t know I think this is the greatest thing ever like this is what I’m what I’m doing every day yeah um why not and I was for whatever reason I was so into it and it was so much what I love to do it doesn’t really feel like a sacrifice um because a lot of the other stuff that that’s what you do in life yeah I mean and I guess some people view it different like some people come like I came to cycling because I love just cycling so much but other people come because they got into it this off success and then it becomes something that they can do and they could make a good living as a professional athlete or whatever but um but then they also really loved the other stuff like maybe that was going out with mates partying or doing stuff and and yes that kind of stuff you can’t really do but I never really did that anyway so it never felt like a sacrifice I got you yeah yeah yeah yeah so for me like the burnout thing was less around sacrificing other things in my life because I was super happy just doing that thing and like even now I’m super for happy just running or just doing a sport like to me that’s kind of my number one thing um but burnout definitely happens from other things like the intensity of the sport you know you have to be so switched on in the racing um it’s mentally fatiguing probably more so than physically now because like is it really level all day like all day you’re just like fighting fighting fighting like like they were saying you know it’s like you got to be in the front you got to be in the front you got be in the front all the young guys are just like you always have to be switched on so you just mentally at the end of the day are shattered um and I think physically it’s probably the same but the mental aspect just is so much higher wow and you know I think a lot of teams now with performance and stuff are are pushing those boundaries a lot more to gain that last one or half a percent totally it’s like you know we’re nutrition and like you know let’s get your app out tracking your marginal and I can see how that starts to lead to to some burnout not because of the sport but just because of like again it’s a mental drain of like doing this all the single time yeah and it is and I was always a bit like yeah if I want a piece of cake I’m going to have it or if like if I really wanted to have a beer or something I would have it and I never really pushed that far down because it I don’t know if it’s maybe that last half percent for winning the tour but like it’s it’s I don’t know if it’s that necessary all the time so what was it for you that made you want to transition into the next phase uh my phase out of cycling was we’d opened our businesses yeah in Jona in Jona we had a couple well we had three we had opened three businesses uh in two years while I was still racing and then I just kind of got to the point where I was like I really love these businesses I really like I’ve got this big interest in coffee I love the businesses I love how that’s going and I always had this thing like in sport or life where I want to have the feeling like I’m growing like I’m doing something I I definitely I abely don’t like feeling stagnated or I’m just no I’m totally beyond that yeah you got to keep moving it’s crucial what always and I got to a point where after I done the tour and doing the tour for me was kind of an exceptional thing like I was a kind of Rider where I wasn’t guaranteed to do it every year like a lot of tour teams on teams are like okay you’ve got your eight to nine riders or a group of 10 or 11 who are like going for the tour most years yeah right um I wasn’t that guy but I knew I if everything came together you know one year I could be that guy so you know for me A lot of times like I could just be at that very top in like Peaks yeah I wasn’t the guy who was up there all the time but like I had enough and when things came together I could be up there you know totally and I knew okay I could I could get there and and really funny I think I somehow kind of manifested it because I kind like one year they’re like okay this year everything goes well you you’re like in the they usually nominate kind of 11 guys and then that gets Whittle down to like used to be nine I think now it’s eight at grand Tours the nine guys cuz you always had two reserves so like you’re in the the 11 everything goes really well you could be on the team and then that whole sort of winter spring with my coach who was from the team I always jokingly said like it’s all in for the tour you know if we ever had any decision on on training or racing or something I was like oh what’s what’s the best for the tour it was like and then and then yeah it was so funny he’s also really funny guy so we was always kind of joking I was like a whatever’s best for the tour man and and the tour is so much above everything else is it yeah and and then um and then so comes close to the tour and then um at the doof which is usually the last big race tour of Swiss one of the two they kind of select the team it had a good do um but at the end of the do the team said look this year you’re going to be first Reserve you’ve not made the team but your first Reserve right so if anything happens to one of those nine guys you’ll be the first guy that comes in okay so then I go back to Canada to do my national championships which is like the Nationals finish about a week or so before the tour to France starts so I do my Nationals have good race all good and now I’m like okay it’s a week before the tour yeah I’m not going to go now you know like this was the year that started in the UK and so my wife and I went to Las Vegas as you do as you do on a holiday so so any we go to Las Vegas we there like the the second day I wake up in the morning and I’ve got an email from the team that say well it says um that year unfortunately darl liy who was doing the tour to France South African Rider on our team he had uh had had a problem with the a positive test which ended up being proven a contaminated supplement and he didn’t serve any but like it meant he couldn’t do the tour right so normally I was the first Reserve so I should have been going he’d been up all night danceing in Las Vegas and and so but yeah we might get to the bottom of it but then then the the director called me he’s like okay we’re taking Simon Yates right because he’s already in the UK and the race starts in like two days right so he’s not in Las Vegas um so we’re going to take him um he’s already here we’re entertaining a new sponsor potentially an English sponsor so it would be really great for the tour and I was like sure of course I’m whatever like I’m here I know I’m like on the other continent I’m in Vegas he’s right there it makes sense you take him like I wasn’t like you were chilling yeah I wasn’t super disappointed or anything and then like just as he about to hang up the phone he says oh um yeah also Michael Matthews uh did an easy ride this morning before getting on the plane to the UK and he crashed uh we don’t know how bad it is yet because he’s not he’s not here yet but you might still have to come what I was like okay and that was like the end of the call and I was like it starts in like 3 days or two days should I come or he’s like I I’ll I’ll bring you back in a bit so when he when he gets to the UK and then I get another phone call from him and he’s like yeah it’s like looking a bit hit and miss like start um if you can come over and like you know it’s 50/50 chance that you’ll start cuz we don’t totally know yet but you can come over if you want and I was like yeah just you know book me a return flight how’s the wife on this oh she’s super chill was she really didn’t mind you just she’s the best in the world oh right amazing and uh so I fly over the UK did you and you know he’s got bandages like up to here looks like a mummy yeah and so like yeah you’re starting the tour and on the way from the airport because you know the tour is a big thing you have to do like medical controls you have to do everything start and they pick me up at the airport took me straight to like this hospital where I do my medical control blood tests all sort of thing we and then you know I didn’t even have my accreditation didn’t have my photo on anything I didn’t get to do the team presentation I just arrived and like and pretty much the next day started the tour God I was like wild I’m like it was so funny too because you have this like you know preconceived ideas of like oh you know everything needs to be perfect this is how it’s going to go it’s almost like a wedding day or something i’ been like just eating and like not doing any exercise like five days before was that good though cuz you’d be rested up was amazing and but the moment that they said oh you’re you’re coming over I went like down to the gym in our hotel right and I know like I was just in my like civies right and I’m just get on this EX size fight oh my God I’m just going to spin it out for a few minutes here you just to easy skill just easy just to EAS the feeling this random dude just going wild in next and then there there’s a guy beside me in the treadmill he’s like looking at me he’s like it’s not the Twitter France maybe maybe not who knows might be tomorrow oh my God going at it it was smoking the machine was smoking I a lot of things career end up being L like things happened like you got there and you got to do the tour and it was like the most amazing experience and like I had a great tour felt good the whole time finished it shps l did it EP was it amazing is it as good as they say to ride down to shps that first time not the first time well the first time’s pretty amazing but finished made complet that lap and it’s like Sunset you know you’re kind of doing your lap with the team and you’re riding like it’s pretty special cool like and racing on it is is an absolute [ __ ] show horr right it’s like cobbles are so bad on the back side like super slippery it’s like bottles are flying everywhere and chains are dropping it’s so rough of course it’s so rough and on TV it just looks like yeah looks everyone’s over it the last stage no one’s trying but yeah it was a pretty special moment to finish that and then and then after that you know I was like you know the did another year um and and it sort of realized you know I kind of got to do everything I wanted to achieve in that sport you know like I got through all the biggest races I got through the tour like these are all exceptional experiences and exceptional moments in my life and it provided me with this amazing opportunity to live in Europe um this amazing opportunity to start these businesses to find Jona to do all these things um but then I found like okay I can go and do this for another five six seven years um because I retired at 31 and or I can still keep riding my bike but I can do all these other amazing things and learn things there’s not enough time in the day or in the lifetime to get it done really I actually still had I still I still had a year on my contract um and I asked the team to to stop a year early um because I also just didn’t like it’s a sport where you know I understood the so like the opportunities I had were so amazing right and be like so many young guys who were like so much chomping at the bit and I’ll just be this kind of jaded guy just cashing a check you know and going racist doing whatever not being like half-hearted but you know maybe not being so excited about it you know and I remember that guy when I was like sitting in the back of the car just being like this is the what an amazing like that whole the picture you just painted of being there going to belim like as a kid and you know being on your first team and being there and it’s really interesting that now you know you you started a businesses you’re you’re an entrepreneur and then you’re on your like second Peak right like how did you how did you discover running yeah so that’s a funny one because like I mean it’s all kind of funny the whole whole life’s been funny but um you know one thing I’ve always been kind of proud of I think is that generally just kind of like having this just take whatever comes and like take opport unities like I think you know every day we’re presented with a lot of opportunities to do things right and it’s about probably saying more times yes than no you know and just just seeing what happens you know like to me it’s a bit more about living life in experiences you know and the people you meet and the things that you and just and you just have these amazing things and doors open but like I think a lot of times there’s a lot of doors open but we don’t we we’re too focused in one direction to even see that they’re there or we’re unwilling to just be open enough to meet people or talk to people or like the amount of people that I’ve met and and they’re always like oh yeah you know if you’re ever in so and so come and visit I’m like careful I’m I’m going to be there I’m going to be the guy that knock me with a good time yeah um so it’s always just about that and then running was one of these things where uh during covid you know in Spain was like super locked down um we couldn’t do much well for three months we couldn’t do anything couldn’t leave the house couldn’t leave the house that must have been quite difficult for you oh my God the old training bike was broken every day you imagine him in there Swift is like kind of indoor training is sort of the Antichrist to me and like it was I mean I was on there every day it was it was a tough moment yeah I bet it was horrendous for athletes around the world I mean people going mad and but then we when we were allowed back out it was kind of we could go out but we had to stay in our Township sort of yeah so riding was like you can’t do few laps of drone or and I had dabbled a bit in trail before like just out of fun to do something as friends um but never seriously and then just started kind of getting back into running and then as you do you go down the rabit hole start like YouTu Ultra tail m blong oh my this is cool yeah and then I was just like this is epic were you that were you quite naive as you went into it then you discovered things and we’re like oh I want to run that it’s almost a repeat a repeat of your I was straight back that kid who like found that magazine I was like oh my God this is so cool did it feel good like I mean I’ve tried to run I hate it yeah cycling legs ain’t made from running in my opinion right or is that is that rubbish I mean felt one it felt really cool um but it’s so hard to run when you’ve been gliding Along on a bicycle you can even stop pedaling and still just then all of a sudden you just got and every part of you is getting Jo I mean I ran I me can’t I can’t claim to have run but when I’ve had an injury I’ve done like up to four or 5K and I hated every single second of it putting one foot in front of the other it’s the most painful worst thing in the world a bike yeah I get it it’s fun running is hard PR hard um sorry I haven’t just put you off your latest career I hope sorry it’s true I don’t like running now that I think about it that’s kind of su you like headline Kristen Meer retires I’ll get my jacket no I mean I think a thing that was really God it’s hard though compar it’s really hard um but what I loved about it was when I started is that I just really sucked at it like I was so bad at yeah and when you’ve done this thing like cycling and I still love the sport of cycling but then it started and I was getting into it and then it kind of came at a point where I had these other issues and I kind of fell out of love with cycling um and then I had this running thing and it was just blossoming into this thing where I was like I am I am such a beginner at this I am such a junior at this this is so hard was it really you weren’t I mean you started running how far would you run for instance does does what I’m trying to get out is how much of that Fitness of that incredible engine of yours from cycling carries over to running the thing is the engine carries over really well it does but the rest of it doesn’t but getting the legs working is like I obviously like straight away I was doing like 10 15 20K yeah I was like destroyed I had every were I I it took me like I did everything wrong like when people say like oh you know running make sure you really ease into it no [ __ ] that I was I was a pro I was like you know you see me in the tour like I was just I was just there and then and then just like boom NOP you’re starting at the beginning and I just was injured after injury after and then I was like okay I probably actually need to do this the right way and you had to kind of slow down a bit and have a reset again at running slow down yeah big time and just like well I didn’t really necessarily slow down so much I just maybe let the injuries catch up so right I didn’t slow down you know I just waited till the injures subsided a bit more um but then it it was I was doing all these different like going uphill at the beginning I was like fine I was like I crush the uphills I felt so strong but running downhill technically on the flat I was so slow on the flat so slow I just didn’t have the technique I didn’t have anything like I felt that like I was sprinting the whole time and I was going so slow right and I would watch these like you know Marathon guys they just like like gazelle like Cru Glide almost that’s right beautiful Christian I mean you didn’t just start running like you you did like the tour Mont Blanc right is that like TDS and it’s this Ultra endurance race it’s super long like tell me what what is it how is it’s so long it’s it’s such it’s it’s like the the tour to France of of of ultra endurance races right it’s the highest it’s the it’s the biggest thing is it in offro running so UTMB is an actual Race So if UTMB the ultra mon walk but there’s a UTMB week okay right so that’s a a week with a series of races so UTMB being the biggest one and then you then you have um CCC so UTMB is 171 km okay with just under 10,000 M of climbing a lap of the base of Mont Blanc a lap of the Mont Blanc so around the bottom which is the tallest mountain in France footprint on it 170 and you run 170 km that’s something I wouldn’t even drive in a day really but the thing is like I also don’t really understand how you kind of do it you know but so you go through uh starts in Shaman you run around you go into kurmay you go through Italy then you go through Switzerland and then you can back to sh so it goes through three countries through three countries day pretty crazy that’s insan and but that week you also have the CCC which is 100k version the OCC which is 55k version and then you’ve got the TDS which is uh and those other races they run on the same course the TDs is a separate race that runs on a slightly different course it doesn’t really go in the UTMB course much and it’s generally regarded as a more kind of rugged race right like the UTMB uh or the tmb the tour Blanc is a very famous hiking trail okay right so you get thousands of people who hike this Trail every year um so it’s quite smooth TR I mean it’s it’s has some technical sections but it’s not really that Technical and then TDs is a little bit more rugged it runs a different route and stuff and it’s uh normally 145 kilometers but with the same amount of climbing as UTMB so that’s the one that I did last year um dad’ you get on I won he’s some boy of course he did I mean my god really it was pretty special um it was pretty are you a better Runner than you are a cyclist then would that be a fair question or not I think that have have you done the tour to France and now you’re winning Ultra marathons I think I’m maybe I think I may be a better Runner I mean I don’t I don’t know yeah I’m still quite new I mean it’s been like a couple of years of of racing but quitting the biggest things there is but I mean it is interesting because like I didn’t I didn’t necessarily expect to win the race um I was I knew I could probably achieve a pretty good result um I train with some other mates who are professionals who’ve had success and like last year I trained a really lot with with a good mate of mine Scotty Hawker from New Zealand and he’s been second uh third at UTM and second at CCC so training with him a lot you start to absorb and you understand okay we’re training all the time together I’m comfortable training with him like yeah maybe I’ve got it um and we had a pretty special race because um it was snowing um it was pretty extreme so we start at we start at midnight and then go through the night and over the top first of the top climb was like snowstorm and stuff it was epic and then they actually changed the course and so it it was a little long longer in the end cuz they had to go around the mountain cuz they couldn’t go over because of snow but it was epic it was so cool you know you’re kind of running in the snow it was it was super cool and then just had like you know had the absolute day of my life like everything just like I think back of that race and some of it obviously romanticized now but I think back of that race was like one of the best sporting days I’ve had in my life like everything clicked and I was just like just in my groove doing my thing like and it just it just happened and you know it’s it’s it’s one of those things when the Finish Line at UTMB in Shaman in sort of trail running is probably one of the most epic Finish Lines right because there’s so many people it’s downtown sheman yeah and you come and then and the towards the end of the race you know my wife was following me the whole race and then like the last AG station which is around 8 kilometers to go in lazou a lot of uh friends and other Trail Runners and people came to like sort of see me come through and it was such an emotional thing for me like like really fighting back the tears right you know because it was like I just don’t know how to explain it but it was just so cool and to feel like all these people and like to kind of feel the love of all the people and like and you’re kind kind of in your Zone and you’re by yourself and you’re running which is obviously slower and and you can talk to PE like you’re absorbing more right you’re in the moment Christian the thing that this makes me think about as you’re talking about this is it’s almost feels like it’s almost opposite to your cycling career where in cycling like you said you loved being a domestique and it was it’s such a team sport and like here you are running it’s 100% individual and you are you are the person that’s winning like you talked about all those people coming for you like it’s this emotional moment because like you are going for the win do you enjoy that more I mean that’s a really special experience and then having everybody there in that moment and then from those whoa Shaman like uh AK relatively flat you know big stuff’s behind you so you go through this hooi of all this emotion and then you like cross the river and then you’re just running on this path by yourself again until you get to shamon and then you have like this whole moment of like reflection of like [ __ ] I might do this you know my God and then you run she would never get in the tour to France no because everything happen but also everything in cycling happens so fast know it’s sprinting across the line like cross the line straight on the home trainer warm totally you know it’s like even when you win it’s like it’s so intensive and like you don’t actually have the you know but there you’re like running slowly along this path and I had like about 40 minutes on the next guy so I knew like I was pretty how long had you been out there at this point 19 hours what no no no no no a long day what you’ve been running for 19 hours I thought you were going to say six or seven 19 hours how long do you think it I had no idea but I did not expect it to be 19 hours it’s a long day 19 hours of putting one foot in front of the other no sleeping on that no you don’t stop really apart from we or something snack you ran for 19 hours just can’t get over that’s that’s my day it’s pretty brutal that’s my day ended there compreh oh my goodness but so that gives you some indication of how emotional you might be as well because I can’t imagine you’re think you’re also like you know you’re worn out and like good and then you come you start running intoit into Shaman and then like you run down this like back street of Shaman and then it’s really kind of interesting because the first part when you come into town you run down Main Street so the main street of Shaman is like only pedestrian right you start running down it’s just like people on the street yeah like you’re just running through like random random street right and then like the first couple people start to notice that it’s like oh it’s a runner right so people like oh yeah and then it’s like more and more people people start to realize and the crowd builds as you get and then you kind of get yeah they all kind of know you come in and then you get to like the the part that’s fenced off in the end right the last few hundred meters and like you go and then you turn this left and you have like you know this straight to the Finish Finish Line and there’s just like thousands of people and you’re just like wow you know you’re walk you’re running up this line like you can’t believe it you know and then you cross and you’re just like you can literally walk the last section and just take it in and absorb it and then like you know turn around run down give high fives come back see friends like it’s such a different experience Quest on a coffee and the 40 minutes lead you out on the side of the track there before you cross the line um yeah it was pretty it was it was super emotional and it was super like the most amazing High one the most amazing things I’ve ever experienced is it your greatest sport in achievement it is it is definitely do you wish you’d started running earlier in your life no I I don’t think I would because like at sometimes you would think like oh what if IID started running earlier like maybe I could have had some success in running or whatever but then you realize like everything that like has led me here right right now happened for a reason and I have all these amazing things that happened in my life that like I live with no regrets you know and I’ve like to me at one point I look at it like two years before three years before I felt like I lost cycling and not that I wanted to leave the sport but I felt I was sort of I had one cycling business it didn’t work out blah blah blah I felt like I left and like I was and I just wanted to leave that behind and I felt like I’d really lost something in my life at that point and then I realized after I was like wow if all that like [ __ ] hadn’t have happened I wouldn’t have had what is probably this would felt as good and it just I wouldn’t it wouldn’t have happened it just wouldn’t have happened because if that bad thing didn’t happen I would have just like kept riding my bike cuz I enjoyed riding my bike you still ride a bike now a bit then or little bit you do I love running and do do do you actually you enjoy running as much as riding a bike then yeah big time you don’t mind just running well yes I can’t get my head around running compared to riding a bike I can’t I think you need I don’t understand it I don’t I’ll be honest you need to go one I think one day you need to go running like where we run like in the mountains yeah yeah and I don’t run like you different exp I can’t R you have to understand like when we say running like in in our long r races I mean we’re pretty much hiking the uphills you know we have polls and it’s obviously a very your heart still high physical pushing but like you are walking hiking you don’t you’re not running the whole thing almost climbing yeah yeah I um your your hiking is my probably running but that’s you still have to be a to hi but yeah it’s it’s a different sort of thing but um so where do you go from here what does the future look like I mean it’s really interesting because you know I was very fortunate off the back of that you know to you know now have a contract with Solomon so I’m running sort of professionally for Solomon professionally running which is kind of a weird it’s a weird thing because one you know I never imagined ever going back to you know being quote unquote a professional athlete sure which is kind of funny because it it it actually is no different than I was doing before because like last year the years before sport I always still lived like an athlete just because that’s what I love that was my lifestyle you know that’s my favorite thing that’s what I need just to feel whole or complete as a person yeah um so it’s it’s sort of just like we were talking about earlier you are kind of just identifying yourselves of something but like nothing has really changed um but so I’m super fortunate to have that and it’s kind of an interesting thing to see what happens in the next few years because I really don’t know you know and and the interesting thing after TDS was you know it was this amazing moment to win but there also came this massive depression afterwards did it for you yeah yeah cuz I was like done it I thought like I kind of had that moment where I thought is this it like I didn’t like this is probably maybe one of the biggest things I could win have I peaked is this is going to be it for me for running maybe I should have just gotten second and then you know triy it again you know like having that sort of thing the car did you battled for a bit afterwards did you yeah a few months I was like pretty hard to train and stuff and yeah I mean I love training so I would go out running but like you know I I kind of yeah struggle to try to figure out what’s next or like what to do or would you drop the distance to say like 26 miles and no is that something you could do or not is that a different thing it’s almost like a Sprint to you right it’s it’s running isn’t incredible because as cycling is quite a unique sport because all cyclists are first endurance athletes and then you become more nichy right so you might be a sprinter you might be a climber you might be a time trialist which can depend on your physical stature as well but basically you all still have to get through sure 150k stage or 200k stage or like a you know a sprinter has to do a time trial a climber has to do a Sprint so you’re kind of all basically the same specializing only in the very minute things in the sport but in running it’s totally different like there’s real like a marathon specialist you know is not a mountain running athlete no that’s right it’s a totally different it I have no understanding of that like a runner is a runner to me to a point if you’re not a sprinter Maran long distance it’s all the same to me but that’s not the case no definitely not and like you also have this thing where an Ultra race like a 100 mile race you know that’s a depending on the course a 15 to 24hour effort right right and so that’s a massive distinction from doing either like you know a 5,000 meter on the track or a marathon or something so it is a lot different that’s one thing that I kind of is maybe interesting for me to still try to figure out because you have this idea of like oh may I should be competitive in like a 50k but if you’re really specializing in one thing like some guys can obviously there’s always you know your Killians and your the outliers but for people like me I can be competitive but it’s not like it’s it’s much different like it’s so and I kind of like doing everything so it’s kind of the difficult part of like okay like remembering okay well you’re trying this is your goal this is what you’re trying to do so let’s you know stay on that um what’s the feeling like on the start line on a day like that when you know and this is probably me personally asking very personally but like you know ask for a friend yeah yeah maybe yeah exactly like you know you got like you got 199 hours running in front of you that that what is is it a feeling of excitement or is it a feeling of oh my God this is going to suck like what is it no I think for me it’s it’s always a a feeling of excitement at that point you know because you train a lot and for me the worst part is always the tapering right because you do a bit of a taper and you kind of down the hours and you just get really excited because you just want to go and like just spend a big day out in the mountains how far do you run in training then can I ask uh kind of depends but generally you are just like fascinated by you I’m going down the rabbit Ultra Runner no yeah you know no but like I mean do you go out for like 15 10 hours and running no you you kind of can’t I mean I mean physically it’s a bit it’s a difficult sport um but like a bigger week for me can be like 23 24 hours running yeah so a lot in the mountains that might be like 200 kilometers a week 12,000 meters of climbing in that I’ve never done that on a bike in a week ever and then average is probably like 100 mile weeks wow but you know maybe we can do a little bit more cycling we’re start still trying to figure out because like you know I I coach myself at the moment I’m now getting a bit of insight from a couple of people but you know I’ve noticed like okay you need to build slowly and do this and like the interesting thing is to be competitive at a certain level I feel like you need to be able to do a certain amount yeah but it takes years to be able to get there right yeah to be able to to be able to train enough to be able to train to be competitive at those which is really interesting like I’ve become really really fascinated in the last couple years just with um like the idea of human performance yes I did want to I I did want to ask you about this um of just like your thoughts on training and and reaching that Peak perform almost like the human limit if you will like what that means and how I I don’t know like I think you have a really interesting view on what that looks like yeah I think it’s it’s I’ve really been interested in everything like around kind of um what certain groups like the Norwegian triathletes are doing you know which is really interesting about how um you know in um all of Alexander Buu and like thinking about you know they’re almost thinking like you know a lot of coaching is really generalized coaching but their philosophy like how do we push you know to the next limits of human performance Beyond they’re not talking about like okay let’s be competitive in this field it’s like know how can we break barriers like that’s kind of what they’re looking at in in sort of um human sport physiology and all these Concepts and ideas and like but but sometimes you look at those okay well those are like you know different people they’ve been doing that but I think for a lot of us it’s like also what I’m interested in what is my personal Peak Performance you know not against I mean I’m not going to be Killian you know I’m not going to be certain other people or certain other athletes but what can I get out of myself what is my what is my maximum and you know I try to inform myself and I try to uh work with some of the best people possible um which maybe sometimes sounds sometimes to me personally think oh this is maybe a bit crazy because like I am not that like you know multiple time Olympic champion or what but then I’m like I’m still in I’m so interested for my own personal sake just about like doing it and like pushing it and seeing and like what can I do what can I try and like you’re your own experiment how much yeah how much volume can I can I do how much and the interesting thing is from the outside sometimes it looks like like I’ve always maybe had more uh not more failures but you know definitely all my achievements are built on a foundational failure for me you know like I’ve failed more times than I’ve achieved but it’s also because a lot of those times uh I’ve always had to figure things out for myself right because interestingly I’ve also had this thing where uh I don’t like um when people tell me I can’t do something not as a motivator but I’m like I feel that that’s a limiter like I don’t want to feel limited by someone saying Okay well we should only do this because you know you probably can’t handle more to me it’s like nah [ __ ] it I’ll try and see if I can do more and then if it doesn’t work afterwards got the pieces after you never know maybe it’ll work you know um so I’ve always been more of that TR it see what happens yeah because I feel like yeah sometimes we are kind of maybe put in a box or put in something and then like you know to me it’s all about dreaming yeah you know it’s all about like what could I do what could I achieve how goals go goals but even like but dreaming of these insane goals you know like big ones they’re not that insane go you go it’s right they got to be big but you have to and then try and see what happens and go for it and then like but sometimes you know we we you know others for whatever reason you people telling you well maybe you can’t do that or we shouldn’t do that or of that and I always just like to absorb information of different things and then pick out try fail maybe succeed go again see what happens but to me that’s a lot more interesting um because you learn a lot about yourself um and you can just have fun and kind of go for it and sometimes it works out and you win a big race and it’s like super awesome Christian oh my God this has been super super cool thank you so much for coming on it’s uh I love I love the trajectory of of your life I think that we all can take that right like if I just if I just try if I just keep doing if I if I logically set these these steps and and follow them then there’s no reason why why not I can’t be in the tour to France or winning uh races amount Mont Blanc I don’t know if that’s what happens to all of us I’m GNA sign off on those two this lifetime but yeah you say that but I mean at the end of the day we’ve all you know I think a big thing is not it doesn’t have to be that no yeah you know I mean it’s not like everybody’s goal needs to be running UTMB but like you know the one thing that we maybe we can do in our lifetime is Inspire someone to go and and just get take the step to T tackle whatever that next small challenge in their life is that maybe seems enormous to them but like that might be just going for their first run that might be for doing their first thing but like you know just because you know someone like myself has done more extreme things there’s people that have done more extreme things for than me so it’s it’s always that just taking that step and going and and just having a dream and following it and enjoy yeah good way live your life well I look forward to to watching you uh to watching your race now this is really really cool thank you very much guys thanks very much for coming in man that was incredible awesome