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Tonight on the show, we’ll be joined by:
🔴 Veterans Minister, Johnny Mercer
🔴 Former Conservative mayor of the West Midlands, Andy Street
🔴 Shadow armed forces minister, Luke Pollard
🔴 Former home secretary, Jacqui Smith
🔴 Former government special advisor, Charlie Rowley
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tonight world leaders gather to Mark the D-Day 80th anniversary as they draw parallels with the war in Ukraine and conflict returning to Europe Rishi sunak tells veterans we owe you everything while Kama pays tribute to their individual courage and Collective Strength well Emanuel macron speaks to the courage of veterans in the war in Ukraine let USS have their courage he says and President Biden says the US and its allies Will Not Bow Down and will stand for freedom also tonight new records show the conservative party accepted a £ 150,000 donation from Frank Hester two days after Rishi sunak condemned comments he reportedly made by Dian Abbott as racist and wrong our Deputy political editor has been looking through the latest batch of political donation records and will be taking us through them and as the parties put the finishing touches to their manifestos we’ll ask how important are they really one promise that we will be keeping tonight Jackie Smith and Charlie rowy will be with us for the next hour it’s Thursday I’m safy Ridge live from Westminster and this is the politics [Music] Hub hello good evening well the election campaign has sparked into life over the last few days but today politicians press pause for a moment as leaders from around the world was gathered in Normandy to Mark the 80th anniversary of D-Day tributes were paid to the sacrifices of those sometimes known as the greatest Generation who fought to free Europe from the tyranny of Nazi rule the veterans who made the journey were honored but of course their dwindling numbers were a reminder of just how important it is to keep telling their stories as they pass with Glory into history but even as the threats of the past were remembered the shadow of future conflict hung over proceedings Vladimir Putin no longer invited to such events the US president addressing the crowds warning that democracy is more at risk now than at any point since the end of that war and of course that warning from Jo Biden Echoes the one that was made by Richi sunak when he called the election of The Perils of an unsafe world so in the end even an event on the beaches of northern France as far away from the early barely of election Politics as you can imagine became a reminder that history carries lessons for the political class of today about the fragility of peace and the terrible cost of War well lots of course to discuss on the program uh tonight reflecting of course uh on those uh D-Day sacrifices and the challenges uh today of how to I guess May would say in our politics today to prepare the UK for a pre-war World well let’s bring bring in our Duo for this evening shall we the former labor Home Secretary Jackie Smith and the former conservative special adviser Charlie Rowley great to have you both on the um program um I guess it’s worth isn’t it just kind of new reflecting on on D-Day for for a moment before talking about the challenges of the world ahead it’s always such a kind of poignant event isn’t it I mean Jackie I know you probably remember it from the time when you were in office so um I was just reflecting this morning actually that I could remember a family holiday uh in Normandy where we visited the beaches and I was with my kids two boys and I I sort of looked at them and thought there were mothers that sent essentially their sons some of them to die on these beaches in order to protect our freedoms and um you know for me personally that felt very po today we’ve had and over the last few days actually I found it intensely moving to hear from the the the veterans who are still alive of course in their late 90s um people who at the moment are able themselves to describe firsthand what happened but of course are also providing us with what we need to be able to pass down to others about the sacrifice that was made in order as I say to protect those things that are so important to us it’s true as well you know we talk about the sacrifice made by the people people who went to fight but actually you’re very right you know the sacrifices are also very much made by the people who let their loved ones Go I mean that in some ways is such a sacrifice too isn’t it to reflect on definitely and some of the stories that you know people have been talking about and you know um listening to some of those veterans accounts and they’re talking about it some of them I think for the first time they were saying because it is just too much and you know after 80 years now going to um uh what’s been a brilliant ceremony brilliant time of reflection bringing a new generation Young people into into the mix um I think the the scenes and the stories have just been incredibly moving and it defines what you were just saying at the top there so you know we’re in an election period here where we’re talking about who we want to you know to serve us well these people have been given have been the absolute embodiment of what it is to serve their country so we will um thank them and pay tribute to them and their families uh we’ll be talking a lot more on the program about you know the safety of the world and you know defends what it means to be British all that kind of stuff later but so thank you very much um but first I am pleased to say that we are joined now by the veterans Minister Johnny merca who joins us from Plymouth and thank you so much for being with us we’ve just been talking about D-Day what have you been reflecting on today oh well uh you know I think when today comes around it’s always um the veterans themselves and what it must have felt like um and it just kind of when you see them it just kind of blows your mind the scale of the sacrif I the Endeavor um and what they did and that they literally like just gave their today for our tomorrow I mean they knew they were doing that and they gave there today for our tomorrow and um when I see them and I’ve been in Plymouth with uh dday veterans today um just an enormous sense of gratitude and real kind of you know it’s funny because from my generation you you you know people people who served um and fought in you know remote Wars that were very different um we sort of tried to emulate their sense of Duty and their sacrifice um and obviously never really came close but they were such a an inspiration for us so to spend time with them is a real privilege yeah I can completely imagine that actually it must be particularly poignant if you’re someone who has served in the armed forces as well we’re talking about the sacrifices that people made to help keep the UK I guess relatively safe for you know half a century almost it has felt quite safe you know as a civilian at times but of course what some of the leaders were talking about were that we are in a quite a dangerous place at the minute a kind of perilous place at the minute on the world stage do you think I guess we need to be slightly kind of shaken out of our complacency well I think we can become dangerously complacent and you know this is what has kind of really driven my work on Veterans because certainly for a generation of some of us you know these wars aren’t actually remote you know for military families and service families up and down the country during those Afghan years um you know you were expecting your door to be knocked at or the phone to go and that to be your life completely changed to you lose your mom or your dad or your only son or daughter um and I think that kind of complacency that uh it’s almost the kind of Amnesia that the nation sometimes wants to sink into about what’s required to defend the extraordinary Privileges and freedoms that we have and you know some of us work really hard I think we feel very lucky to come home from these conflicts and we feel this duty to make sure that people really understand and truly understand what it feels like to be a veteran um in the United Kingdom today of course one of the um key conservative policies uh in this election campaign is the introduction of national service um and I know that you’ve spoken about how you think it would be you know good to instill that sense of Duty uh in people in the United Kingdom um I was just talking to Jackie Smith who’s on our panel tonight who said that she spoke to you at a podcast event just before the election was called uh where an audience member asked you about the idea of national service and you said that you didn’t think it would actually help the Army because the Army is is in a different place right now and so it’s not something that the Army actually needs is that your view so look I mean we were conflating there two different issu so I was very clearly asked about national service in the 50s and 60s and should we bring back that national service and what’s being talked about now is a kind of volun service with a pathway through for a very small number of people who want to do it so there’s no compulsion to it um and I think those two things are very different and I think that that difference is good I you know I I still don’t think you know national service 50s or 60s style is particularly something we want to see but anything that kind of really binds communities together and gives young people that sense of purpose and that sense of mission that I certainly felt um with a possibility to going to the military if you want to right so there’s no compulsion to it I think um is great and I think um particularly in communities like mine I think that uh uh it really matters and it increases opportunities for young people I can see I can see you know the argument you’re making that it would help the young people but would it help the Army itself I mean they’ve got to work out what to do with all these people haven’t they how to train them you know what kind of role to find particular if they’re only going to be in the for a short period of time yeah I mean what when when the announcement came out I think you know people like myself and Ben Wallace and other others worked hard to try and understand where the money was coming from because I think you know there is a a real pressure in the military at the moment around the number of asks they they are required to do and you know people like me will always ask for for more money for the military so this is backed up by new money that can go into you know I go visiting my Cadets down here and things like that and I I would love them to have more resource and more opportunity and things like that and this is backed by uh new money so in that respect um I was pleased to see it um I think he should be given a fair wind you know is it perfect of course it’s not but it’s a it’s an election right and uh at least it’s a bold promise that defines between two parties that are often accused of basically being the same thing and um you another thing you’ve been pushing for is this idea of um veterans ID cards being allowed to be used as ID at an election and I think that’s now going to happen can I just ask though why is it that veterans are allowed to use their ID to vote but students aren’t is it because veterans more lik to vote conservative than students no of course it’s not I think I’ve always been up against this argument why should veterans have dedicated mental healthc care Pathways why should they have um uh you know why should they have the military Covenant I think being in the military is a is a definitive say that’s absolutely not I’m talking about a very specific thing about why veterans ID is able to be used as ID in polling stations and students isn’t yeah because you know I can’t comment on the students part of it but what we’ve had to do really a lot of work on is this digital verication in the in the veteran space to make sure that these cards can’t be reproduced um to make sure that uh you know the digital records reflect uh a veteran service and and therefore we can use them I don’t think I’ve seen these stories about you know the idea that all veterans vote conservative they absolutely don’t and I’ve met many of them who um uh you know who are not particularly happy so I I see you know the kind of media spin on it but I mean I’m not into that stuff I think people know me by now I’m not into that stuff I’m interested in making sure that veterans are treated properly and that they can use their uh ID cards for all the things that um we want them to uh now you’re always a bit of the straight talker so I’m quite interested to see uh how you’ll respond to this question about I guess the direction of the conservative party we’re going to be talking to Andy streets a bit later in the program who for many people see you know is the kind of cist cons fa of Centrist conservatives if you like at the same time it’s very clear that Nigel farage and reform are rising in the polls more recently as well where do you think the conservative party should be should you be focusing on you know the kind of right-wing flank with Nigel farage or worrying more about losing votes I guess in the blue wall to parties like the liberal Democrats what’s your assessment look I I I think we you know in all these things there’s no point looking at what everyone else is doing you’ve got to think about what you believe in and why you get out of bed every morning to go and represent people in public service and why you do what you do and what you believe in right and uh you know I’m I’m a conservative uh cabinet minister I’m I’m I’m very proud of that I believe in a modern compassionate conservativism that we’ve seen under this prime minister I think reform you know you cannot escape the truth that if you vote reform you will get a labor government so if those things that you believe in or claim to believe in that lead you to thinking about reform if you actually want to see them uh propagated in government policy rather than just being a protest vote if you vote for reform you will get a labor Member of Parliament here in plmouth and you will get a labor government and you know people people really need to understand that that’s all I’d say about reform you know their policy platform and everything is up to them I think we have a good uh policy platform I think you’ve seen some very good things announced what we were talking today around veterans you know know we we we’re talking about enshrining veterans rights in this country for the first time in our history that is a big moment right and there is a difference there between the labor party and the conservative party and that’s the sort of thing we want to focus on what do we actually believe in why do we do what we do you know the Legacy Bill why do we not think it’s right to prosecute veterans when they’re 85 for something that’s been investigated six times already and treat them in the in the manner they were in Northern isand because we believe that it’s not the right thing to do it’s about what you believe in um and I think you’ve got to difference there between the two parties and we should focus on that we’ve talked a lot about some very important things in this interview so you’ll forgive me for asking you at the end about something that is a lot less uh important um but about a month ago you were picted with your shoes and socks off on a train It sparked a bit of a kind of social media reaction should we say so it’s your chance to put your case for the defense what what was going on there so what had happened was Sophie I had taken my bike across Dart Mall uh to ex station because I like to do exercise because it helps me stop going crazy in this job and unfortunately the weather had changed up on the moall and I got absolutely drenched so by the time I got to the bike I was starting to get a bit sort of hypothermic by the time I got to the train and I had to take my wet kit off and basically try and dry well I couldn’t dry it but just try and get through the train journey I honestly um I’ve been educated as to the social faux part of taking off your shoes and I and obvious obvously I’m extremely sorry to everybody who was offended by my meat flippers um but I think worst crimes have been committed and uh we should leave my tender meat flippers alone okay it’s not where I thought this interview was going to go talking about the tender meat flippers but thank you very much today thank you there you go Johnny Mercer uh right let’s bring in Jackie and Charlie shall we I’m not sure where to go after that to be it’s a bit of a handbreak turn you’ll be pleased to we’ve all got our shoes and socks your view yeah exactly um yeah all shoes and socks on in the studio no antisocial Behavior going on tonight I’m pleased to say um what did you um Charlie what did you make about what he was saying about reform that’s something that I think we’ll be talking a bit more about the program as well well I think that ultimately Johnny’s right you know if you do vote for reform in one of those B constituencies you are going to end up probably with a A labor Member of Parliament so if you want to stop not that um then the only option really is to to vote conservative but there is a um a obviously a lot of um a concern about the polling uh I think about reform catching up the conservatives but I think you’ve just got to ask people you know the real question about who can actually deliver and I think that you know for whatever the faults of Rishi or the Rwanda policy whatever your views on it the government said it’s going to do it so it has to deliver it um and I think you know richy s to his credit he’s gone further than any other prime minister or Home Secretary to tackle the issue of illegal immigration or immigration more more broadly and that is something that clearly communities up and down the country uh grappling with so if you vote for reform yes you might have someone for for years and years talk has talked tough on it that’s Nigro farage um but he hasn’t a been able to deliver on it he won’t be able to deliver it in Parliament what that will do is leave you with a labor government that wants to scrap Rwanda and doesn’t really have a plan like we she and the conservatives I me I guess some would say that they would some on the left would like to see labor differentiating more when it comes to immigration um rather than I guess agreeing with some of the conservative diagnosis that levels are too high and they need to come down well I think there’s two things here first of all I don’t think reform are doing catching up the tourist so effectively only because they’re talking about immigration you know obviously that’s a key part of their platform but Nigel farage has also been talking about the way that the you know everything feels broken in the country uh that’s the sort of attraction that he also has to um to voters but I think you know almost exactly the opposite thing has happened in the labor party to what’s happening in the Tory party kiss Dharma has uh worked enormously hard to bring the labor party back to what I would consider to be the sensible Center left put it in the service of the British people as he describes it that’s where you win elections from in this country and you know frankly if the Tories want to go off as they were doing even before Nigel farage said that he wanted to to now lead uh reform if if the Tories want to Drift Off to the far right well as far as I’m concerned that’s fine CU I don’t think that’s the place where you win elections from and certainly not the place that you govern a country like Britain from is that a risk I mean there is a genuine debate here isn’t there about you know if the conservatives focusing on I guess the red wall people who maybe voted for Boris Johnson for the first time last time and they’re alienating the blue wall um well there is risk yes you can’t assume that everyone that is going to vote reform or why they’re doing so well in the polls is because they would be traditional conser voed there will be people that have voted labor that feel that immigration is just a number one issue for them and uh the Reform Party are articulating it better than either of the two main parties so you can’t just make that assumption but I do think it’s just worth reminding people that uh look you know what the conservatives are offering is something that is quite tough on immigration but what I think they need to do is to hold on to as Jackie was saying that Center ground there has to be uh more policies that are coming forward not just about national service not just about tax cuts not just about immigration there has to be hope and optimism and other things such as housing such as social care such as child care policies that I’m sure we’re going to hear in the next few weeks um before polling day uh we’re going to be hearing from Luke paard SE for the labor party as well um how do you think Labor’s doing when it comes to defense Jackie oh I think very well you there was some polling just before the um uh election I think the possibly the last time or time before last I was on here which suggested that actually labor had got a lead on the issue of Defense which you know is pretty has been been pretty unusual in the history of uh the labor party so seeing kiss starma this week or a few days ago um standing in front of the at least 14 Labor candidates who are now former veterans so actually you know Johnny is right not all veterans are voting Tori by any means uh and talking about his commitment in that case to our nuclear deterrent I think shows that labor are well and truly on the ground where they need to be with respect to defense okay well let’s get bit more shall we on labor and defense and of course on those D-Day commemorations as well because we can talk now to Luke paard who is the chadow Arm Forces Minister we’ve been talking about D-Day today of course um what in particular have you been reflecting on today well in the service that I attended earlier on today I reflected on how few D-Day veterans there still are and why it’s really important now that in marking this really important part of our calendar we renew our effort to tell the story about the service and the sacrifice that that generation made not just in storming the beaches and parachuting Behind Enemy Lines but in the whole second world war effort of people because young people these days for God this has something quite far in the past and indeed 80 years ago is a long time ago but that critical moment when Western Nations Alli Nations uh took on Nazi Germany invaded and stormed those beaches in Normandy as a such an important part of our national story an important part for The Echoes of history that we’re facing today with threats to uh not only our allies such as Ukraine but also to the UK as well um you’re talking there about the sacrifice that people made and also that for many young people it feels like an awful long time ago do you agree with the analysis that some have made of the situation that we’re in a more dangerous time now than at any time perhaps since that war and that we’ve actually entered I guess a pre-war period as the defense secretary said I do we our allies and ourselves are facing more difficult and contested times it’s not only the threat the immediate threat that Russia is posing to our friends in Ukraine but also the threats they’re making to uh NATO nations in Eastern Europe but also to the threats to the UK Homeland as well and in these more difficult times it’s important that we have a clear plan for defense that’s why labor is proposing that we increase defense spending to .5% that we invest more in British companies rather than sending contracts for military equipment to foreign countries and that we’re making sure we’re renewing the contract between those who serve our country and the nation because with falling morale in each of our armed services and a frankly awful state of military accommodation with leaky roofs broken boilers and black mold in bedrooms we can see why the retention challenge in our Armed Forces is so difficult but we need more people in our Armed Forces to see a career in military service not only to protect ourselves but to protect our allies that’s why labor set out our ambition that on day one of a labor government we’ll have a defense and Security review that will look at the threats that we’re facing but also what’s needed to deter those threats and if necessary defeat them okay so one of the things that I know that U the lab party has been quite critical on is what’s happened to the Army and the size of the army specifically under the conservatives K St saying the conservatives have cut the Army to the smallest size since Napoleon John Healey saying that they’ve hollowed out the army so would labor a labor government make the Army bigger well it’s not just labor that’s saying that the Arm Forces have beened out Ben Wallace said in the House of Commons that theyed would lab make it bigger then would labor make the Army bigger is the question well that’s why we’re having a defense review on day one of a labor government because there’s certain information that you need to have to be to make that decision and in opposition we don’t get to see the classified briefings the intelligence briefings and the analysis from our allies that would be required to look at what is the shape of our Armed Forces that’s why we want that uh review uh on day one of our labor government reporting in the first year but you said it’s been hollowed out haven’t you you’ve said it’s been hollowed out so you are making a judgment on it um I guess my other question is you know you say you want to make the have a Strategic Defense review on day one if that recommends increasing the size of the army will you do it I mean that’s the reason why we’re having this review uh what we’ll also set out in that review is a clear Glide path as to how we get to 2.5% and importantly the sequence of what we spend that money on because we need to make sure that we’re stemming the huge outflow of armed forces Personnel who are leaving service at the moment make sure we’re investing in the right kit especially purchasing that some with sometimes that complex high-end kit that we need with our allies making sure we’re keep continuing the uh nuclear um uh submarine presence in the North Atlantic that keeps us safe with A continuous ated deterrent these are all difficult expensive but absolutely vital things that we need to do that’s why a proper defense review that looks at the sequence of that spend the seriousness of the challenges we’re facing and how we need to shape our forces to make sure that they’re able to respond to the challenges we’re facing is so important if I could fit it in a sound bite I would but the thing is we need to have that serious review to make sure we’re keeping our country safe I I I understand it’s a comp complex issue um and hard to fit into sound B but just forgive me because I’m not really clear if the Strategic Defense review recommends increasing the size of the army will you then increase ass of the army I mean we’re having a defense review to right siiz our military and that’s not just the Army that’s also the uh the Navy and the Air Force as well I mean each of the Navy Air Force have roughly around 28,000 people at the for the first time we need to make sure we not only have the right number of people but the right kit and the right formation the right posture to make sure we can deter and defeat any adversaries and that’s what that defense review is designed to achieve okay thank you very much indeed Luke paard there the shadow veterans Minister thank you thank you well back to the election campaign because the latest donations data from the Electoral Mission were released today right in the middle of that campaign and it’s reignited some controversy over a conservative donor who was accused of saying that label’s dying Abbott should be shot our Deputy political editor Sam capes is here elections are big money Affairs but who is building the biggest wo chest and where does the cash come from today that was answered by the donations Watchdog the Electoral commission and here it is from January to the end of March the Tories raised just over 8 million labor on 6.6 million lims well they were much further behind on 1.5 million and the greens where you can see that just over quarter of a million and here is the list of the biggest Tory donors so this man Peter wood well he founded direct line Richard harpin he lent his helicopter to Richi sunak and top of the list by a mile giving £5 million this year I firm the Phoenix partnership run by a businessman at the center of a major storm earlier this year Frank Hester now Hester is the largest ever donor to the Tories in March it was reported that he made these remarks about the then labor MP Diane Abbott back in 2019 he said you just want to hate all black women because she’s there I don’t hate all black women at all but I they think she should be shot Hester denied that the comments were connected with skin color or gender but the Tories faced calls to hand back his cash and rishy sunak publicly condemned the remarks so watch here what he said was wrong and racist I’ve made that clear and it’s right that he’s apologized for that and where remorse is shown I think that should be accepted now watch rishy sunak gave the interview that you just saw on March the 14th but the very same day it’s emerged the party was accepting yet another £150,000 from Mr Hester’s company today Labor said that this showed sunac has no Integrity but what of Labor here are the list of their biggest donors hedge fund manager lots of unions and at the top electricity which is run by this man Dale Vince now we revealed that he was the founding f funer of just stop oil Tor called on labor to return his money but you can see here that the funds are just keep rolling in another big labor backer is labor together that’s a starmite think tank big money paying for staff who were seconded to the Shad cabinet run by this man who it just so happens was last week selected for the plum labor seat of makerfield in Greater Manchester irritating the party’s left the Westminster accounts project traces how money Works in our politics at election time that’s more important than ever Sam coats our Deputy political editor there talking you through the latest on those donations you’re watching the politics Hub coming up why is the Scottish conservative leader Douglas Ross’s decision to swap seats for the upcoming election ruffled feathers find out next [Music] Westminster may seem far from Grimsby and CLE thorps but not for long with a general election around the corner we’re bringing you sunat versus starma live from Grimsby putting their cases forward and facing questions from a live audience who will convince you to give them the keys to this place the battle for number 10 get the full story first on Sky News [Music] [Music] [Applause] we’ve got your Sunday morning covered from the front page and the sounds of the streets to the voices of the people who make the major calls and big picture politics Beyond Westminster we’ll put you at the heart of our story a new start to Sunday I’m ready are you join me Trevor Phillips Sunday mornings on Sky News I’m D wh head and I’m Sky’s west of England correspondent I’m Katie Spencer and I’m Sky news’s arts and entertainment correspondent we help you to understand the world with us I’m Adam Parsons I’m Sky’s Europe correspondent based here in Brussels we take you to the heart of stories that shape our world I’m Lisa Dow and I’m one of Sky Midland’s correspondents the reason I do this job is because you never know where it’s going to lead [Music] hello welcome back you’re watching the politics Hub on Sky News the top stories Rishi sunak and Kama have paid tributes to the sacrifices of D-Day veterans his 80th anniversary commemorations are held in Normy the latest donation figures from the Electoral commission revealed that the conservatives received 5 million pounds from Frank Hester who was accused of saying he wanted D abbit to be shot now you can stay up to date with all the going on in the election on our digital politics Hub by scanning the QR code at the bottom of your screen among the other stories we’ve been covering that you can read about on our digital Hub today details of the new Yuga poll which show Nigel frager’s reform UK is gaining ground of the conservatives they just a two-point gap between the two parties and after there was a bit of controversy over Richard Holden’s selection that’s him there for a conservative party seat our chief political correspondent John Craig has been looking at how the last minute Dash to fill seats compares to Years Gone by so all that and much more just scan the QR code on the bottom of your screen well after a series of RS over the candidate elections the final list of the people standing for the parties on July the 4th will be confirmed tomorrow but not before one last controversy after the leader of the Scottish conservatives Douglas Ross decided to switch seats from his current morray constituency to abadin North and Moray East which looks on the face of it to be a safer seat Well we can speak now to our Scotland correspondent Connor Gillies Connor what’s going on Sophie this has become a Right mess it’s been a day of drama here in Scotland Douglas Ross uh being called a lot of names including ruthless Shameless and essentially sack a man in his sick bed there are a couple of issues at play here and let’s just talk them through the first one is that this is a major U-turn from Douglas Ross this is a man the leader of the Scottish conservatives who had three jobs he’s an MSP he was an MP and he’s a football referee as well and he said look I’m going to be stepping aside from my role as an MP giving up that job and focusing my priorities on the situation here in Scotland so there we have that first U-turn of the day the second issue is that this new constituency of aberin Shire North and Murray East already had a candidate there had already been a selection process and that man in the seat there was David dug good now he has not been in great shape in terms of his health he has been in hospital in intensive care however he has said he was ready to fight in this election he was ready to take the fight to the SNP in that part of the world and he said that he would win the situation there however late last night the Scottish conservatives said that he would not be standing he was being blocked from standing uh and that has created this drama because Douglas Ross in a dramatic moment in this election campaign swooped in this morning and said this was his moment and that he would be standing in that seat and David dug good would have no room whatsoever for now he’d be welcome he said when he’s back to full health whenever that may be in the years ahead interestingly though Douglas Ross said that he has not had a single conversation with David dog good he didn’t have the blessing of David DG Good’s family so I thought that was interesting the other big issue here is the Optics of how this looks is it essentially Douglas Ross stabbing a close colleague a close Ally in the back here when he is in his sick bed when he is still in hospital the S SMP have said this is a low blow and it’s straight out of the Nigel farage Playbook but there are also some issues as well with Douglas Ross defending this he is saying look it’s the Scottish conservative management board essentially that made this decision well Douglas Ross sits on that board now he said he wasn’t part of this decision making process but just finally if we take a step back in all of this too the polls are not looking in great shape for the Scottish conservatives they’re currently the main opposition here in Scotland the polls are suggesting they could slip in to third so is Douglas Ross looking at his future Beyond his leadership in the Scottish conservatives is he on maneuvers to try and get back into Westminster where he could be in more of a position with the UK conservative party either way this has become a Right mess and the opposition are going to have a field day with this in the coming days goodness me what drama Connor Thank you very much indeed Connor gillies’s there and here’s a full list of candidates who are standing in that seat abin north and morray east the full list of candidates for that constituency on your screen right now coming up next on the politics Hub take on farage or seize the center ground how should the conservatives fight this election campaign I’ll speak to the former West Midlands mayor Andy Street [Music] [Music] for [Music] hello welcome back well an election campaign is not really the best time for soul in but it does seem to be the current mood of the conservative party facing the threat of Reform UK overtaking them in opinion polls at the same time as that poll from ugaa Sky News suggested that sways of middle England could switch on mass to labor so what should they do well the chancellor Jeremy Hunt is clear warning today that elections are won from the center ground so what does someone who is seen as one of the leading figures of Centrist conservatism the former West Midlands mayor Andy stre think he joins us in the studio now um first before we go to him I just want to play a clip of the interview that I did with him in the immediate aftermath of him losing the Mary earlier last month disappointed is a soft word but we’ll go with it yeah I am but I’m also incredibly proud actually uh to lose by 1500 in a region of millions given the situation the party finds itself in and given that this has always been a place where some people said you should never won in the first place I’m actually very very proud of what we’ve done I’m proud of how we built this brand of conservatism here and I’m proud most importantly of all of how we’ve delivered for people across the West Midlands but yeah of course hugely disappointed tonight you said that disappointed is a soft word what what word would you choose then I suppose personally devastated but um but uh uh but yeah that’s that’s the right word thanks for being with us um when we last spoke it was just after that result come in and I think a lot of people would actually just found the exit door actually but you didn’t you kind of fronted up you spoke to people did the interviews and it was clear how as you put it you know devastated you were by that result how are you feeling about it now don’t change that description actually you can’t put your life into doing a job like that leading a region of three million people and then just walk away and say that wasn’t something significant so that was the right word Time Heals of course and you begin to think about the future but equally I think the little clip you showed about how well we done in that election given the state of the conservative party actually to come so close there is a message about where the conservative party has to go in the future from what’s happened in the West Midlands yeah you you were clear Wen you in the message about I guess parties winning from from the center and now you’ve had a bit more time to digest everything do you want to kind of expand on what you mean by that well it’s interesting that very phrase Jeremy Hunt used it Jackie used it in the panel earlier on and so there’s a lot of wisdom coalescing around this view that um if you look at let’s take what happened in the West Midland and then we can perhaps extrapolate it out but the type of conservative leadership that I Chown was an inclusive brand where we thought just as much about how the most successful people in society were going to get on fulfill their dreams as we thought about those who were not able perhaps to get on without some support from the public sector how we thought about the different communities in all senses different ethnic backgrounds different um attitudes everything to bring a society together where everyone could Thrive together it wasn’t pitching one against the other it was a collective approach and we very very nearly won through for the third time against all the odds so there is a lesson in that you see I guess some people would listen to you and think yeah that sounds great but look at where the conservatives are now you need to pursue a core vote strategy getting your core vote out and that means appealing to for example to pensioners to the wealthy people who traditionally vote conservative what would you say to that I would say that’s a very unambitious strategy if you look let’s go back really big picture over a hundred years every time there’s been a major change in Britain someone has won from the Middle Ground whether we go right back to pre-war when the sort of majorities that were there for Baldwin and Chamberlain if you then go through to what happened immediately post war and of course Harold McMillan that was an incredible Centrist approach and even Margaret Thatcher in 79 she started off as a Centrist and of course the great Labor success with Tony Blair and David Cameron’s resp response as well every time the big changes have been one from the middle and if you go to a core vote strategy on you will you will seed that middle ground and my message to my party and that they plan the next four weeks is do not seed that ground because actually the real battle is with labor and the lib Dems over the middle ground we’re all obsessed with what niga farage is doing at the moment but that is just one flank the real debate is in that Center but some people would say you they’re obsessing about Nigel frage for a reason I I mean the Sky News Yugo poll yesterday put reform within two points of the conservatives and they’re eating into really important seats for you yeah so why is that at the moment because najja farage has had the whole week of the story has been about him that will Reed I’m fairly confident of that but we’re arguing there about one flank and we’re leaving the other flank completely open if that’s where we go so the blue wall if you like the blue wall and you’re ignoring indeed you could put it like that but it’s actually it’s more than the blue wall actually it’s this almost where the consensus is built in what is after all a very moderate society that we have built here where there is a consensus in the center and that’s what we have to own and not seed it we haven’t have manifestos yet you know we’re still I guess in the kind of early days if you like of the campaign what’s your assessment so far do you think this is a conservative campaign that is being fought from the center honestly uh let’s just think about who some of the leading players in the government are first of all Jeremy Hunt you couldn’t find him on moderate Man David Cameron you couldn’t find he his achievement very clear the center ground remember this government has got incredible heavy weights I’m asking about the campaign that’s fair and some of the new policy announcements that we’ve seen so far have definitely been I’m not denying the point to try to shore up the core vote what I want to see in the next four weeks is US answer the question where is the wealth of this country going to come from in the future how are we all going to afford all the public services that are actually talked about and to do that you have to answer those questions about future and as yet we have not done that neither party has done that campaign I’m interested in that as well because I guess I’ve got a bit of being my Bonet about you know it’s such a challenge whoever wins after the next election it’s such a challenge if you look at the state of the public finances debt levels if you look at the projected Public Service spending if you look at the you historic level of a tax ation we’re seeing I guess if you you know you describe yourself as an executive politician if you were running a business now you’d be talking everyone through your plan redundancies explaining why you’ve got to make them or why you’ve got to put up prices yes what do you think politicians of either party should be doing now to prepare the public it’s a great analogy because I would be talking and I think it applies in politics as well about hard choices what are we actually going to prioritize what are we going to spend our money on how are we going to grow the amount of income that’s going to come in to afford all of these pieces and I think the public are saying where are these choices where are the tradeoffs and actually if I could I would ask people to be uh overt about that actually be brave and I think there is a reward for the politician who is brave about that actually what would you do then well the first thing I’d talk a hell of a lot more about is where is the how is our country going to get back to a really good economic growth rate how are we going to compete internationally how is Tech te ology changing business I mean we’ve got some incredible successes in our technology sector I haven’t heard a huge amount about that I haven’t heard about how we’re going to actually uh reform the Health Service based on technological changes as well so people people tend to see threat in change but actually there is a wonderful opportunity in embracing that new technology let’s hear about how that can answer some of these really deep-seated issues and what about the hard choices though doesn’t sound like a much of a hard choice that one though well you have you do have to decide which parts of the economy you are going to invest in the whole idea of an industrial strategy a business strategy that we haven’t heard a lot about that from either side actually so that is a hard choice because you can’t be all things to all men in Economic Development you do have to put your chips down you I want to talk a bit about you as well because there was some people who thought you were you know run for a seat and you considered it didn’t you why did you decide against it yeah I did lots of people said I need the logical thing to do is youve lost the Merit you now jump straight into a parliamentary career and you know it’s very tempting of um being an an easy answer but actually I said no for one very simple reason you said earlier on I was an executive politician been an executive for 20 years running a big business and would say Britain’s best business actually and you can’t then go into a job that’s not actually about executive leadership it’s an important job being an MP critical everyone wants it I get that but it’s a very different job and it’s a moment to be honest where I just stood back and thought what am I going to be good at and it’s probably not that do you have any more of an answer to that question then what it is where you see yourself well I also said in that little statement I made about not doing it that the thing I’ve really got the bug for over the last seven years is this notion of Public Service it can sound a bit oldfashioned but actually at a time when politicians are perhaps not particularly trusted there is something really really pure about public service and actually doing the right thing for social Improvement and I’ve learned that you can make change if you bring all your sort of resources skills together and I hope that I can still contribute to the public policy debate and actually possibly leading a big Institution for the UK any any hint on the insti I know I knew was a wasted question I know you only going to tell what what interviewing a lot and you there’s no point you know pressing Stu you’re not willing to say I’m also going to have a good holiday and have a break over the summer and also it has to be said support some of the people who’ve helped me as well so some the MPS have you had any like Great Hobbies you’ve had more time to do cooking Mountain chicksa chicksa hardly I don’t I’ve got the temperament for that uh so I I love the outdoors so getting to Wales and up the mountains that’s been my thing so great anyway so great to have on the program thank you very much indeed Andy Street there still to come on the politics Hub we’ll be chatting with our Duo about what they just heard from Andy streets plus the parties have been trading blows of policy will the publication of their Manifesto expected next week clear things up and will they change anyone’s vote we’ll discuss that next coming up on the UK tonight at 8 we are live at the National Memorial arborium where there has been a special service to Mark the 80th anniversary of the DJ Landings as world leaders PID tribute to those World War II Heroes who fought so bravely on the beaches of Normandy all that to come on the UK tonight at [Music] 8 we looked at participants who are from memory Clinic those who are at higher risk of developing dementia and they also have concerns with memory and cognition so we wanted to see if people who have something called as cognitive Reserve this build up by staying active mentally physically and uh had higher social interactions so we realized that stress had a negative impact on uh spending time in leure activities or even has frequent attractions from social interactions so we wanted to see that if these kinds of beneficial effects of cognitive reserve and cognition and Alzheimer’s biomarkers had negative impact on stress and if it varied by subjective and biological stress and uh we sort of found that overall higher chronic stress appears to negate or undo the cognitive benefits we have by engaging in mentally stimulating activity and participating in enriching life activities which might make people more susceptible to Alzheimer in research we do have a lot of multi-domain interventions like we focus on diet physical activity but we don’t uh introduce like stress management practices like meditation or even mindfulness it’s a non-al eological intervention so I think uh it could be interesting to see if uh involving those elements into our everyday life not just memory Clinic patients increases our overall brain health per [Music] [Music] [Music] hello welcome back to the politics Hub well next week we’re expecting to see the publication of the first of the Pary Manifesto an opportunity for the policy wonks to get their teeth into the detail but do they actually change anyone’s Minds well we can bring uh back in Jackie and Charlie to discuss that Jackie I know that you could have had a bit of reflecting that you wanted to do about Andy street though as well no I did because um Andy and I did work together in the in the West Midlands but as well as the West Midlands the other thing we have in common is we know what it’s like to lose in the full glare of um publicity brutal enormously brutal but for those candidates who fear they might be going to lose on the fourth of July take a look at the speech that Andy Street made you know at that moment when you have to stand up in front of everybody he was enormously dignified he thanked his opponents uh and that’s the way that you need to lose is in my view so um good good advice just before a general election when we are expecting to see I think it’s fair to say like quite a few of churn on the seats as well so a lot of people having to make that difficult uh Speech uh up in the glare of publ as you say um how important are manifestos do you think can they just change your race um and maybe not on their own but I think they are important because it allows the public to actually see in black and white in a document what it is that you’re going to stand for what it is that you’re going to do if you get elected and the achievements that you hope to achieve um so I think they do have um some sway um how many people are actually going to sift through them or or you know bedtime meeting candidates are going to read reading time reading perhaps for a lot of people to get off early but how about you to you will you read both party manifestos do you think or oh I time I would I wouldn’t put them down cover to cover are you are you are an insomniac Charlie obviously and what do you think Jackie do you think that manifests can sometimes you know change a campaign um I can’t remember a time when they have actually you know I mean I think Charlie’s absolutely right you obviously you need to have a document that sets out to an extent the priorities that you’re going to have in in government I think the Civil Service will read them quite carefully by the way as they’re putting together their their sort of um preparations for uh government I suspect in the case of labors where which will be sort of finally approved uh tomorrow in what’s called our Clause five uh moment I think it’ll be reasonably okay safe yeah so that won’t be the Turning Point well the one thing I would say obviously I remember in 2017 where you know trees May was 20 points ahead in the polls and the manifestos came out to deal with social care where the whole country sort of wasn’t quite sure wasn’t quite ready for it so if we see something similar in a labor party Manifesto that is too bold perhaps uh 20 points head in the polls it could change everything could go the wrong way rather than the right way uh thank you both very much indeed that’s it for M Night politics have back tomorrow with Ali foru up next it’s the UK tonight [Music]