London Clubs in 2000’s: Simon Dent

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Simon Dent is a legendary club promoter that has worked in some of London’s prestigious venues, from ChinaWhite to Kensington Roof Gardens. He’s also worked with the world’s biggest brands and celebrities, we talk through people he’s worked with from footballers, gangsters, actors and even royalty.

This is the Eventful Life of Mr Simon Dent

The Eventful Lives Podcast 👉 https://www.PodFollow.com/DodgeWoodall

Chapters:
02:00 – Early Life & Resilience
06:00 – NIGHTCLUBS
09:00 – ChinaWhite
14:00 – Doormen
18:00 – Club Promoting
22:00 – Footballers & Party Animals
30:00 – Sports & TV
35:00 – £15 Million
42:00 – Madrid Final
47:00 – World Cups
50:00 – Japan Typhoon
53:00 – Vinnie Jones
59:00 – 6 Marathons in 6 Days

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nightclubs that really help w’t it and it’s probably where we met so we had Pangia wax Rex 10 rooms China White so purple Kar purple is a nightclub underneath Stanford Bridge football club on an average week we probably putting 15,000 people in venues Essex gangsters South London gangsters Jewish Crews Arab Crews footballers rug players royalty Prince Harry Prince William Prince haric got used to get on it I made sure news the world Snappers didn’t see them I think when you earn people’s trust and people know you’re that guy worth his white and gold absolutely my representative likes Jimmy Bard Vinnie Jones Neil rck John Barnes Jimmy Floy hassle Bank John Karu who is the biggest party boy out of that list you just [Music] mentioned s welcome to the show mate thanks for having me you’ve been looking forward to this yeah very much it’s funny seeing you today haven’t seen you in 25 years probably plus years or so I know yeah since the good old days yeah Fulham Chelsea clap I’ve certainly lost some weight I mean You’ lost I thought you going to say you were right anyway let’s roll over backside where did you grow up and how did you become a sports entrepreneur what a question um so my dad was in the Army so I had quite an Eclectic um sort of childhood really I was born in Northwest Kent in a place called Graves end and my dad worked on the river so very much a A working class upbringing but probably at the age of three or four he decided he wanted something a bit more for the family so join the Army so that led to a a crazy journey of 13 houses in about 10 years as a kid moving around army bases around the world and because of that and because of that upheaval and because of that lack of any quality education I was sent to boarding school and that I think is quite a big part of my sort of formative story what school did you go to well it’s a school that’s now shut down um which says a lot um obviously my parents thought they were doing the right thing um it’s a school called Newlands in East Sussex place called Seaford I don’t think too far from where un went School actually but um yeah it was a school that had a lot of problems and and and actually really in the last couple of years and especially during covid a lot more of those problems were highlighted so it’s it’s it’s an interesting one I I think that it was certainly part of my upbringing as I said my parents thought they were doing best but a lot of the stuff that happened there probably was really more like a resilience training camp than actually an education yeah what you saying it was a boarding school was there bullying there yeah lot of bullying lot of sexual abuse um very very poor level of Education um I ended up getting six GCC so I was you know my dad was spending money on this education assuming that we were all being looked after and as you know back in those times there were no mobile phones or communication we you know we we weren’t allowed to phone our parents we we sent letters every week um so they thought it was all Rosie but actually what was happening was the school was spunking the money and not educating us and so I was taken out of that environment um after my gcc’s and I was putting a school up in North York and my dad was based at catrick Garrison and I did my a levels in Yorkshire which completely changed me because I went from six terrible gcc’s to Three A’s at a level which then opened the door for me to go new D University so it asked your question I i s really turned my life around doing my a levels up there um it was quite hard being a southerner sort of six Darlington but got my head down um and yeah get a law degree that led on to um doing law school and then be qualifying as a lawyer quality and where did you study law uh so I studed law at Kent uni uh which is brilliant experience great uni campus uni lovely city Canterbury and then did Law School in London um and it was one of those things where I think a lot of parents encouraged their kids to go and be lawyers or doctors and again absolutely um they thought it was best for me what I didn’t realize that it was a sort of for me it was the early stages of something that would lead up well end up me being a private hospital with depression anxiety because I I qualified as a lawyer um and what I didn’t realize is that’s when the real work starts and I was in that City environment I mean I’m 47 now so you know mid-20s lot of drugs and alcohol about um crazy working hours there was no mental health and it was sort of you know we get into the office at 8:00 leave at 2: in the morning and that was just a cycle cycle and I just didn’t have the um the ability to keep up with that and as I said unfortunately um one day I I sort of collaps in a heap hi guys just giving you the quick heads up we’ve just launched a new VIP membership on patreon this gives you exclusive episode behind the scenes footes never seen before VIP Community chat and early access to all episodes if you love what we do for the sake of a cheeky pint a month Fiverr a month come and support the channel it allows us to grow even bigger did you at work well not so much at work I actually um I kept pushing and pushing and pushing and thinking that I could I’d eventually um get through it but what I didn’t realize was that I was actually very very ill mentally um I kept going to a GP who bless him thought had an iron deficiency so I kept getting prescribed iron tablets and surprise surprise it wasn’t helping my mental health so how old were you how old at this time this is early 9 mid90s yeah uh no this would have been early 2000s early 200000 to 2002 yeah right okay yeah so it was it was a it was a tough thing to happen obviously um quite a at the time not something you’d really talk about or share I think thankfully I was a day patient at the hospital it was a brilliant hospital called capio Nightingale in London um was going in there every day completely lost touch with all my friends though um obviously lost touch with where I was working and just lived this strange existence I had a one bed flat in Shepherd’s Bush so Looking Back Now it was a pretty dark chapter but actually I do look back now with a sort of R smile because it is definitely the foundation and the Launchpad for who I am today and where did you get when you left the world of law after that when you you said I don’t want to be a lawyer now what was the next step for you well funny enough nightclubs that really help w’t it and it’s probably where we met yeah it is so um it was an interesting one I had the the pleasure of meeting a chap called Martin of fire on a night out in Fulham and Martin at the time was just finishing his rugby career wasps and uh both of us were going through breakups and I ended up moving in with Martin in chisik and on a night out you’ll remember this Embassy back in the day Martin introduced me to to a young man called Nick house m is Nick house still going in the nightclub he’s not going he’s a restaurer now but like yourself was sort of top of the game I you were doing more club stuff around the country Nick had London parties and sort of the highend London seat boxed off and um Nick and I got on um he was building this business called London parties he had contracts about 22 clubs in London every week every week we were doing yeah over 20 parties a week in London and he needed people like me who I probably were quite well connected um a bit sort of Lost in the capital and didn’t you know mind a night out so I I found myself running three or four nights my my sort of patch was Southwest London so I was doing purple Kar purple remember purple purple was by Thursday Friday Saturday oh M I used to love purple purple just for the listener out there purple was a nightclub underneath Stanford Bridge football club and that’s when we was to party there in the early 2000s and then Roman and barovic bought it and he stopped the nightclub yeah it’s still a venue now they us their Hospitality do they cuz I thought said cuz we us Pile in there all of us must be a thousand people every Friday Saturday night that was our go-to wasn’t it well we had Thursday Friday Saturdays we put 1500 on Friday and Saturday about 800 on Thursday a student night and it was incredible but you know the model we were we were taking the dorm on the club were keeping the B and so it was a good model by the way it was a great model but it doesn’t exist anymore but I think we earned that and we earned that keep because ultimately The Operators didn’t really know anybody yeah we had hundreds of people working as sub promoter underneath ether so yeah it was it was an amazing time and got to meet some brilliant people and to be fair a lot of the people I met in that environment are still friends today and what it did do is it led my sort of my my next step on my journey was to become a sports agent because I actually ended up marrying my knowledge from being a lawyer with all the professional footballers and rugby players I met in those clubs and the next thingo I was a lawyer yeah just before we go into that I’m I’m fascinated because you’ve just triggered my mind what other clubs did you do what other clubs you do you can mention it in the year 2000s goodness we had so we had Pangia Wednesday night is a Pang brilliant night kenon Roof Garden Friday Saturday Satur what was the what was the other one Cafe dep Cafe I love Cafe dep that’s got to be one of the best looking venues in in the country right still a venue Now isn’t it it’s been open since the 30s that’s right um brilliant venue um leester square or is it yes it’s on that centry street between leester Square Cirus yeah crack I mean amazing I can’t I can’t London anymore without Shing there wax rex on um tiatro Funky Buddha funky um where else obviously uh Kar ten rooms China White I mean there were so many as I said we had so many venues On The Go China W on a Wednesday I think China what was a big that wasn’t our night we used to have a Saturday there was it Wednesday was a big night Wednesday was the their sort of Flagship night that’s right um but you got to remember back then there was no real social media so we were we were putting on a on an average week we were probably putting 15,000 people in venues and taking cash off the door so I mean that led like proper cash not like anyone listen out there there was there was cash back then where you could take in but you could imagine that led to its own problems us you know Lads in our mid 20s walking around West End at 3: in the morning with that much cash and it got quite hairy to be honest and it was it was one of those things that I think we were so naive we were sort of I think the Dorman and all the security even the Heavies in London just were like these are just a bunch of sort of public school B they’re not you know and so we did get there were a few occasions where you know we’d get followed home and we didn’t really have any muscles so there were a couple occasions at one club which I won’t mention but um where the doorman were basically just taking the money yeah and they were just going down the queue asking me 50 good 20 good put and people going in the front and so we started noticing that our door Revenue was down you know hundreds of thousands each week and we just called the head security up on he said well what are you going to do about it mate yeah anything really so carry on yeah so yeah it was interesting quality give me some more clubs oh can you think of any more clubs I mean I think I want to trigger what about what about Sunday night PMP and well so that was obviously Kings Road was it or ful Road Well Kings Road we had mamang yeah that was open for a while um embargo embargo Crazy Larry CRA lar um I mean all those places and I think hardly any of them are open now but it was very different wasn’t it because I think back then um it was still very much a drinking culture party culture um there was absolutely no messaging around not drinking or you know just getting on it everyone was smoking venu everyone just getting on it everything on it and it was just it it was like the consumption decode wasn’t it but also it was there was no social media so if you wanted to hang out with people you had to go out you couldn’t do it on your phone at home over WhatsApp or anything so no fun memories but I think obviously going for an environment where I wasn’t very well into that that that had a shelf life you know that was I met some brilliant people and as I said some of the the people that became clients later in life football those rug players and even people like Prince Harry Prince William who I used to spend a lot of time with um you know whenever Harry wanted to go out I basically met houseold security and so I would get the call take him to a club get him in the back door and so it was amazing time and fun memories but yeah it’s um Prince Eric God he used to get on it good times he’s great times he used to properly get on it though didn’t he remember who was the guy who was the guy in um purple nightclub was it James yeah he’s no longer with us I’ve heard he I’ve heard he passed how did so he um I think it was a brain I actually went to his funeral did so his father Brian Mason owned purple right and the Mason family quite a well-known family in Fulham yeah so you know I worked with James’s family for three years and it was probably about it was I think it was around 2014 that he passed but it was of a brain hemorrhage and yeah really really sad but that again quite a really iconic Fulham family yeah and who was the other guy there because he used to run it James he had long blonde hair if I remember right yeah that’s James yeah that’s right 20 odd years ago I remember there who was his body got he had a black body Big James he’s dead as well is got shot he got shot yeah he died yeah so where did he get shot around the no he got shot at the um there’s a bar opposite F and Broadway Station that’s now a Tie Restaurant I can’t remember and he he got shot it was crazy actually it was a year smoking Band came out and he asked someone to put a cigarette out in a in in the pub and the BL went out came out the gun and shot and killed him yeah and that’s Fulham and that that was I mean that was a real sort of you know that that sort of thing doesn’t happen in Fulham I mean not then or now and so yeah that was a sort of time when that happened I mean I was already out the nightclub game but he was a lovely fell he was he was the kindest was it 6’6 black guys big he was a British conth boxing champion that’s right um but yeah he was always in the club and and you know what’s amazing about that scene back then was there was never any trouble I I didn’t see one I mean that was obviously they’ll punch up but never one glass KN nothing like that no gangs and and what we used to pride ourselves on especially in the West End we’d have some of those China wild panger nights we’d have Essex gangsters South London gangsters Jewish Crews Arab Crews footballers Ro players royalty no one no bother everyone Blends everyone Blends my job as a promoter would go around make sure had something in common be a great night out a nothing whereas now I mean goodness know Happ all the clubs aren’t around there’s no night clubs anymore well obviously you speak about a lot don’t you it’s sad but yeah good memories really good memories I think you were the guys are sort of like the Pioneers really of bringing that smaller venue style but bottles of vodka bottles of champagne where people go WR 10 grand down there’s your table yeah yeah and that that started to limit us cuz what happened was our Revenue was always on the door and obviously if someone’s dropping 10 grand they don’t want to pay to get in so we had these 200 300 person venues where we would put these really high rollers in but then we weren’t taking money and so we started asking the bar for a potenti the bar and that’s when it started getting dodgy because they would give us fake bar receipts and so we’d be monitoring like we’d say want 10% of the bar they’d give us a reading at the start of the night reading at the end and we’d see it’s been manipulated so the moment you can’t walk away from the club your cash that’s right we were like that and so you know I eventually left that business Nick carried on a few years he ended up buying whiskey m and did he own whiskey Miss whiskey Miss that’s a Booz no no the the the club under um Parkland Hilton okay yeah but he also had shares in a pub in a pub yeah what was the name of that pu that Pub was in Mayfair and it was with guy Richie that’s right and uh chap called Rupert Morgan used to run it and it the Name Escapes me but it’s a great Pub in the back streets of Mayfair um that was a good Pub yeah everyone just sort of slowly sort of fell away from that scene and do you think the people cuz so what year did you kind of get out of the nightclub nightclub World proberly got out in around 2008 yeah I left in 2008 oh did you yeah I did 10 years interesting I I had 12 nightclubs every week that Peak all around the country from Manchester B I remember your great Ro was Ollie Horner olle Horner what a lovely blow yeah come play come play that’s right still a very good friend of he’s Godfather to my son yeah yeah we’re really close um nice fellow Ollie really nice he’s just launched a premium gin brand actually didn’t he launch a popcorn a brand a popcorn brand or something hippie healthy chickp really well with another promoter from our days so again it’s really nice to see ex Club promoters I think if you were switched on in that environment and you you know you had a bit about you you were polite and didn’t fall too much into drinking drugs I think a lot of those people have come out it like yourself and done very well because you think the number of people used to meet oh M now what any 20 what 25 to 30y Old when do you ever get to meet 400 people a week you just don’t it possible yeah absolutely it’s funny though I see people now our age s of mid 40s or 40s or whatever they are and they’ve still at it yeah they look like 60 I’m like M because but but then when you finish like school or university the culture was you get smashed yeah that was the culture doesn’t matter what is at the moment in in that late ’90s and 2000s people were just on it maybe on a Wednesday or Saturday even even would go out on a Sunday yeah and that period of 10 period I was in club probably six or seven nights a week for 10 years four weeks four nights a week working and then when you get back to London after doing all the clubs you’re out Friday Saturday and then you got a PMP on a Sunday but wasn’t it great cuz I just don’t have fomo now I I I feel like I’ve lived every possible experience of going out nothing no invite is of Interest I I I can say no to everything I can pick and choose whereas I do still have mates now who weren’t giving a nudge cuz they they got married quite early so now grown up what you doing of course I’m going out I don’t go out yeah but you remember PMP though all the rugby boys and all the rugby all the wives girlfri Sunday night and and that’s when V Ribble come about remember like jugs of V Ribble and BLS of just it was amazing I what’s happened now is they have these day parties don’t they which I’ve never been to or brunch parties it’s sort of actually is quite interesting because it means I could probably get home for yeah exactly after perfect but I know the mentality of most of the people I hang out with just means that they’ still go out so silly’ Clock IT me they’ve been on it for longer so who who who what did you take from that nightclub world going from boarding school being moved around everywhere with your dad it’s hard to make friends when you’re set you can’t settle to then all of a sudden do you feel like you had a community then did you feel like you were actually a face or someone and actually you were recognized for the first time absolutely that’s a really good point because I think what it what my um upheaval as a youngster going around loads of schools moving home I had the ability very quickly to make friends I could be put at any playground and very quickly find something in common with people and I think even then going to boarding school in uni that that was a skill I had so actually I didn’t know it for as a promoter that’s one of the best possible skills because I could work into any club I’d have no problem going up to people finding something in common with them exchanging numbers as you did back then um and building a network and as you know in in that world and even in what we do now it’s all about who you know so yeah that that was one of the the most amazing things the club game gave me but most importantly and probably the skill I’ve used the most after that is sales yeah like you think about it we used to convince as I said 15,000 people a week to spend loads of money in a dark black room with a bit of music on yeah that’s what we did and it was proper sales we didn’t really have sales assets like you do now there weren’t Fancy videos or there was the odd photo but it was usually blurred on a sort of Club website but we have to tell people what was happening and you know that’s quite hard and there was no social media it was phone calls there was nowhere to hide there was no post and hope people turn up it was down at foot and Broad Flyers fing and posting calling people and motivating that person if he I’ll give you this so again I sort of it was weird at the time I just didn’t realize at the time it was just I was stuck in a bit of a sort of cycle in London of having a good time you with the boys with freshman Sportsman meeting women and I I I was lucky because I didn’t take it too far but but again as I said ear I could see how people could and not take the lessons out of it yeah what what context did you meet in the night club world that you have worked with post nightclub World great question um Lots I mean I I was very fortunate as I said earlier I managed to take my skills from being a lawyer and lots of freshman Sports I met to become an aent sports agent so I built business which my representative likes of Jimmy Bard Vinnie Jones Neil Ruck John Barnes Jimmy Floyd Hassel Bank John Karu lley King Nick EA La delalio so what I found was that I was in because I met a lot of these guys when they were smashed and I was looking after I was looking him after and you were straight and sober I was straight I made sure that the news of the world Snappers didn’t see them I made sure they got the fire escape in their cars and home so I I looked them a lot of the time in the most V environments vulnerable environments and so I think that built up a level of trust so then when they had a question you know so that their present agent was doing this doing that they’d asked me and they knew I was a lawyer so that’s really how that developed and and you know I think you said at the start I’ve been very blessed to work in sport postlaw my whole you know for the last 20 years that has been the foundation and and that’s LED on to I’m sure come on to building and selling an advertising agency in sport still having a talent management business but I think when you earn people’s trust and you know on a handshake and people know you’re that guy that that that’s a pretty good foundation worth his white and gold absolutely who is the biggest party boy out of that list you just mentioned well I mean you I mean Lawrence wasn’t too far for sorry L um Jimmy Bullard gave it a fair nudge occasionally Neil rck wasn’t too bad funny actually lot of the people I representative we’re quite big party actually’s a going yeah um but no I think it it what was brilliant as well is that the I guess the the mentality of those guys we’re not talking about footballers that were knocking around League 2 these are all winners and so an England World Cup winners World Cup winners Championship winners title winners England International so they were work hard play hard and that was I was very lucky back then around 2002 2005 to to have a front row seat to the sort of success that London was had to this I look after Warren Gatlin now the Wales head coach and just hearing him with Shan Edwards look after that group of players with Lawrence Josh you know fras of Walter Stuart Albert Danny suani has such a band of brothers that they were winning titles European cups but they were going out they were out and that for me was was a really interesting lesson on Work Hard Play Hard obviously a lot of people get that wrong but yeah I’m very proud of a lot of the sports men I represented they weren’t just going out they’re they were winning things first yeah I used to have a nightclub in uh wesworth called liquid no way you know the one way system of course and we used to get we used it was a student night every single Tuesday and it was all the RO Hampton students thousand students it was like 70% women and every Tuesday night we’ have all we have L would’ have all the was boys all the London Irish and all the quins boys turning up they’ all done like half a bottle of V turn up come in there get get smashed and go to training next morning I mean the stories we I mean I’ve Dro I’ve dropped people off from nights out straight training yeah but the way it was different world different world then yeah we got I’ve got funny story I won’t say about when Brian oiso in in the club and really yeah some funny Pete Richard Pete richad lovely fellow I got some now you’ve mentioned I’ve got loads of funny funny story I’m not going to mention it on podcast here but have chat about it off a yeah definely anyway I’m sure you as well these are bringing back great memories like 20 years ago fantastic what was um so so when you finished the nightclub world how rough how old are you roughly um finished nightclub World probably um 28 so early 30s early 30s mid-30s to early 30s yeah so how was your mind I was um you know as I mentioned earlier I’d come through the sort of the mental health challenges after legal freshen and as we said like what we know now is that lack of sleep isn’t great so going straight into a night and by the way no one told you that back then and maybe I should have known that but so going to a profession operates at night you sort of become live a parallel universe to a lot of people so I lost touch with all my old Union mates all my real friends I suppose you become you you move into quite a Transit society and you start to become aware the more you mature that a lot of people are they’re your friend because you can get them in places no [ __ ] right so there was a strange process where as I came out of that profession the phone stopped ringing and you that’s not great for self-esteem and you start to sort of realize that actually they weren’t friends they were there for the ride which is fair enough right I was you know I was the sort of gatekeeper to that ride so it’s come to expect that but that that took a bit of adjustment and and probably a few years where I was really questioning that Whole Decade of my 20s and early 30s what I’ve been doing and starting to feel sort of I guess inner pressure and guilt about you know let myself down let my family down and it wasn’t really until to be honest I met my now wife in 2012 that things started to come together and that um the sort of coming together of appreciation of wellness fitness and my running meeting Lucy who’s now my wife who was 14 years younger than me which was a huge you know massive thing 14 years younger yeah that’s what I I’m just tring all the I’m just trying to think when did you meet her you didn’t meet you didn’t meet you didn’t meet her when you were 29 did you was 21 I’m so good yeah but we watched the wedding wedding video the other day I looked terrible I looked awful I thought I looked great I was like oh God you married him yeah fair play to you mate so what so so what was your world then were you thinking right I want to become a sports agent I want to look after these players and Commercial deals on and off the pitch yeah that was it and I think I was um I could see a real future in that I’d built a small business that I’d sold to a company called raw a guy called Jonathan shot who’s quite a wellknown agent bought my business um what business was that called raw Global which was um then it’s now called inter Talent so it’s a talent management business Talent yeah um so I went in that’s where Lucy was working she was working as a theatrical agent um and that was around the London Olympic so it was a really cool time in London was it 2012 bit of a bounce I met my now wife um and yeah I really saw a future in talent management and fast forward a year two years fell out with Jonathan Jonathan who shot the the person who bought my business well you go 50/50 did you yeah but it you know it was it was Talent is quite a a hard business to build and sell because it’s about the relationships and people move on so yeah that that was a sort of interesting time learned a lot but then I suppose the biggest business decision stroke moment for me was in 2015 Lawrence delalio had been um invited to an advertising agency in so BBH and he asked me if I could come in and help launch this Sports division for them and I knew nothing about advertising agencies creative agencies brand strategy but they wanted me to open the doors them so I was like look you know I’ll come in I still want to manage my talent on the side they were like no problem and that was my first experience in advertising and I helped them for two years between 2014 2016 um and that’s when I had um a sort of light bulb moment to setle my own sports Focus advertising agency and I did that in 2016 and we sold it last year to Omnicom did you yeah so it it was quite an interesting Journey but we built it I built it from Zer to 65 employees um we were doing brand strategy created for the likes of Nissan P we launched peleton in the UK um pummer justy um some big big Brands but you know I like to think of that was a a bringing together everything I’d learned all the contacts i’ built obviously I’d had no experience in advertising so what I did was basically I surrounded myself with people that knew a lot more than me I reference to as standing on the shoulder of giant so I basically gave shares to four of the most influential and powerful people in advertising they worked at an agency called lucky generals so I shared their their agency was called lucky generals okay really great advertising agency um and yeah we buil we built this business called Dark Horses which was it was a brilliant brand and Ethos because it was all about so your agency was called Dark Horses okay and you built that an advertised agency from 2016 and sold it when last year wow how much did you sell it for can’t tell exactly we’re still in the earnout but it the okay yeah it was it was a good sum of money but um yeah I mean obviously covid had impct say um I stood down as the CEO in 20 2020 um basically I just didn’t have the so when Co hit we were about 60 employees that’s a lot of employees by the way 6 well listen and this is this is that’s a lot of pressure this is why um I stood down and this is why it was a really sort of fascinating time because I’d built a business from nothing right flying everyone doing well 60 employes I knew nothing about being a CEO I’m an entrepreneur right and so I was sort of building this moving car I always like to say and people were coming in we’re winning business you know we’re taking people um to Miami to you know Italy on team holidays we’re doing everything because working the sport Champions League finals it was brilliant and then suddenly 2020 Co hits and and you”ve got the average age of the workforce was probably about 25 and I was well early 40s mid 40s so suddenly it’s not going so well and suddenly I have no Tools in my tool bag to deal with the situation well nobody did really did they and so it went from Happy friendly to sort of furing people cutting people’s pay and I just didn’t really have that that skill set I was sort of it was great because in the office I was I was walking around I was always a part of conversations I was effectively the new business driver but when when there was no new business to win and we were all on our screens suddenly I wasn’t being invited to any meetings I wasn’t present at any meetings I couldn’t put my head in the door to look at what was going on no one was giving out any business so I was a bit like [ __ ] what am I doing what’s my role and so the insecurities started building up and yeah basically I called it probably end of that first year of Co and again which is a very very hard and challenging time but it led to us leaving Shephard’s Bush moving down to East Sussex um and I would never have done that if I was still the C of the agency I couldn’t have done that yeah you still be there now grafting just break down what an advertising agency actually means for The Listener so from 2016 to 2023 you built this business you had a a two three year period which obviously was covid which wasn’t cool how are you earning your money to build up a team of 65 St so we worked for brands that wanted to use sport to elevate the brand so basically big Brands who sponsor sports events need that relationship bringing to life in some way so more often than not now it’s through social media content but we were very much known as above the line stuff so we would make TV adverts um out of home advertising so see on billboards print ads in magazines we’d also do social content but we’ do the quite big strategic thinking so our relationships with the CMOS and the CEOs so so the chief Market yeah and so we were quite far up the sort of the the food chain um and as I said we our biggest CL was Nissan and even to this day Nissan is our biggest CL so most of what Nissan do in sports they have a Formula E team yeah sponsor City football group they used to sponsor the ICC and they used to sponsor the Champions League okay every piece of marketing that they made would come out Dark Horses okay so we were massively punching above our way and what’s great is that the ethos with a business was always about being the underdog being a dark hor and it was really interesting that when we when we chose a name people were like why why dark hor now you mentioned it I love it it’s a [ __ ] Co name well look I’m a dark horse I’m not from this industry I’m going to take people with surprise and by the way we want to work with dark horses because dark horses and Challenger brands are brave yeah and you want to a brave CEOs and CMOS because they’ll make work that’s famous they don’t just want to make wallpaper and so we just had this really incredible sort of group of people that race the dark hores ideology we [ __ ] smashed it man like we really smashed it and I’m I’m very very proud of that and I think again going back to that sort of thing we spoke about when you leave the club World when I I stood down as a CEO I potted off to East Sussex and the phone St ringing I was off the company emails you’re sort of like now what you know I’m 46 I I’m not I’m never built to be an employee I’m an entrepreneur so I need to be busy so yeah it’s like what next give me an example of a brand you work with what they would example of what they would pay and would they do a threeyear deal a two-year deal they want you to cover TV right the TV advertis just give me a give it give us a good picture so pelaton is a brand everyone will know yeah when we met them we didn’t know them um nobody knew them and this is a true story and a fascinating Story the founder was a guy called John Foley and we had an office in far Aron xith market and he flew in and we went to a pitch process to become the agency to launch them in Europe so they had an agency in New York called mechanism doing Manhattan new nor New York came over and met us and he walked into our office bear in mind this is 2018 walks in I lean over to shake his hand he goes this sticks his elbow out I’m like he said oh there’s too many Airborne diseases being passed around by handshakes so it’s been mind 2018 two years before I’m like okay he’s then walking around the office elbowing everyone I’m like the [ __ ] is this guy now fast forward the brand that benefited from Co the most anyway um yeah we were doing the UK launch and they had a huge budget and they wanted to how much H they probably had uh a million pounds for Creative okay and so they probably had um no seven 7 750 grand for Creative about a million pound for production so to make the thing and then probably about 15 million on media so you’re telling me they gave you that money to do that or did they give you a certain chunk so we’d have we’d get a 3/4 of million up front uh or paid was it paid monthly how would up front or paid monthly okay with then the production we’d manage that but that’s what we then use to make that’s a hard cost to produ to make the TV ad or and then the media is what they spend to get the world to see it so for example the TV so so you can’t hide behind that so you would have to say to them like the media want 50 Grand and adver you’d have to pass that on or would we take you w’t take that you’ll take the the money out of the creative cre strategy 750 so we’d make it um we’d engage production company they’d shoot it and then it’d be passed on to Media to make it famous so it was brilliant because we with a brand like that we just knew straight away this was going to work it was such a great time they had so much money they had so much money behind them it was such a cool product and of course that’s we just said when sort of covid hit it was like [ __ ] me at home at Fitness just blew up um so yeah it was it was really good working with Brands like that because they were as we said they were dark they were disruptors they wanted to make a difference it was slightly more challenging when we’d have to work you have to where we worked with certain I won’t name them certain sort of governing bodies or rights holders with in support because they didn’t have much money yeah they didn’t want to upset anyone yeah they had certain parameters and rules you had to stick with it and so you end up we’d come up with some amazing ideas and they Chip Away Chip Away chip away and two months later you just make what they want to make yeah and you’ve started here with This brilliant idea to breakthrough make them famous but because of yeah they just wpaper so when you built that business dark horses who was the shareholder you yeah so myself the three founders lucky General so they were the people as I said as I said standing on the shoulder of giants they were the people with the expertise and advertising was it you who said I want to bring people in as shares and was it you who saying it’s my company setup here I’ve got 100% I want to split these shares up yes well so so to the way we launched it and this is great advice for any listeners is that I knew to get off the ground I didn’t want to get investment external cash so I went to them and said look you’ve got this staff already working here you’ve got these offices you’ve got that reception these Services I want to come in here I want that desk I want to borrow your staff you cross charge me for that those staff I’ll pay for them I want that re cist I’ll share all that and as I grow I’ll take more desks etc etc so and that’s what happened we built it built it So eventually we knock through to the office next door that was my office they were there and what was the the reason I massively benefited is that when I was one person trying to get new clients in I’d bring them to the office and you know what it’s like when you’re trying to win business if you got a [ __ ] cool office with energy people love it so I was bringing people through the lucky General’s office into dark horse’s office sort of bit of smokeing mirrors few more people cuz no one wants to work at agency or one person working so few of their staff around my office and then that was that really it i’ I hugely benefited and I’d go as far to say it wouldn’t have happened without the halo effect of Lucky generals yeah but also wouldn’t have happened without your mindset to go you know what I’m going to bring some really cool people on board what percent did you keep by the time at the start oh at the start I was on about 30% so you gave away the majority Mr 7 kept 30 and when you come to sell what percent did you go down down to uh about 12 and a half okay yeah so I diluted a lot but actually we wouldn’t have sold if I hadn’t done AB so it was sort of it worked out well and I think it’s it’s funny because I’m having lots of conversations as a non-exec of a lot of companies and I’m not doing a very good job of articulating to people it’s better to have a percentage of something than 100% of nothing and I’m trying to get that M and I use dark hor as an example but I think there’s a m it of ego I think there’s power um which is such a bad starting point yeah you know I think you did I think you were clever that was a clever move yeah well it turned out that way and there was a lot of luck along the way and but the more risk you take the lucky you get yeah absolutely that’s my mindset a lot of people say the harder you work the lucky go I’m not a big believer of that I think the more richk you take the lucky you get yeah it’s interesting I’m sort of in this place at the moment where I’m looking at what’s next and I think that risk taking I I don’t even regard it as risk taking what I what you and I regard as a sort of normal course events I think a lot of people regard as risk-taking I think that sort of schooling in nightclubs um I wouldn’t say I’m resistant or resilient to failure but I don’t really give a [ __ ] what people think anymore yeah and I probably haven’t for about 5 10 years so actually sometimes when I think a lot of people choose or decide to launch a business the reason they don’t is because they want what people think yeah I couldn’t give a [ __ ] yeah I’m same isn’t it but I think I did and that you know that’s probably what got me quite ill as a lawyer because I was so concerned of what other people thought whereas I almost have to remind myself and almost sometimes have to pretend I care because otherwise people think we’re Socia yeah absolutely it’s funny to talk about risk there like I was chatting yesterday on a podcast I got invited to James um Sinclair’s podcast yeah really impressive gu it was nice being on the other side the first time than hosting and we’re talking about risk and he’s a risk taker but he’s like what risk you took I said well just we we gambled our family home and put it on a festival in a field he was like you what do you know what I mean so I I I know you did that yeah it’s crazy really but I Mentor other people now and why I will say to them take calculated risk but I didn’t take calculated risk back back then you know it was a full on risk like if no one turned up you lose your house it’s as simple as that because people wouldn’t buy online back then there was no social media people would buy tickets online it was literally waiting for people to turn up and you’ve just gambled and RIS remortgaged it and gambled it for 300 grand for in a field yeah but I think as well you and I both know if you’ve done the Reps it it’s not really risk I I’m incredibly confident in business in endurance sport now in most things I do I’m quite confident because I know I get up at 5 I read every day I train every day I do business every day I look after my family every day like I’m on it and so I back myself and if if if it’s a a 100 mile running race I you know fail in or if it’s a business fail well I couldn’t have done anymore I’m totally bulletproof yeah good for you man yes you look well yeah it’s a bit of running you look well mate really clean I kind of I I you know alcohol I’ve drunk once this year I’m not a non-drinker or anti- drinking I’ve I Dr I go to the football like you know I’ve had one drink this year I I train every day yeah I’ve got into ultra marathon endurance marathons so I’m probably doing on average 100 miles a week running 100 miles a week week yeah are you yeah I know that’s why what did you listen to podcast your podcast you got me in the a when running Jesus yeah I mean I do I yeah I I sometimes get home after I try and do my long runs on a Sunday which sometimes turn out to be six hour runs and a six hour run for fun yeah do you get excited by going for a run for I love it mate honestly I don’t know what the gene is but I’ve just it never used to be there this is a a new thing but since 20 18 I’ve been I’ve been running ultramarathons and I’ve stumbled into a talentless sport which is brilliant you just need to put your shoes on and move yeah when you launched this business Dark Horse you were in it for six seven years eight years or whatever it may be give me some examples of some amazing events that you went to wow sport as in events with work and C yeah well Champions League final who I mean unfortunately I’m a Spurs fan so it it was the start was really aligned in 2019 as Tottenham got to Champion League finals Nissan were a client we’ done all in Nissan’s work leading up to it obviously got to go to incredible course F at the Yad when we won 43 then saw the comeback in Amsterdam which is insane yeah what the amstan one we beat Ajax remember we scored three goals in the second half in the second half yeah unbelievable don’t put we into that full on Western mate don’t bring me into that but um yeah and so you know it was wow this is a real moment as I got my sort of Champions League final all done to get tickets where was the final Madrid was it so I got picked up in a Nissan Leaf at the airport I was just like this Nissan Sunny I was like this is it work life everything and obviously Liverpool get a penalty in a second minute and then we just didn’t turn up so that that I mean that as an event was just brilliant that the whole theater I I obviously never thought I would and probably never think I will see Tottenham in the Champions League final again so that was incredible 2019 again the same summer um The Cricket World Cup final at Lords yeah we saw the incredible semi-final when England beat was that the final beat New Zealand New Zealand in the final wasn’t it yeah so we exra over wasn’t it yeah Nissan was sponsored of that got to go to that um what else yeah just I mean went to the Champions League final in Kiev so just incredible um events like that that you know you it’s funny when you’re a you know proper Die Hard fan it sometimes can be quite strange going to the events as a corporate I mean I’m not anti corporate obviously corporate makes footb go around I get it but sometimes you s of you know the old porn sandwich Brigade you turn your no it but but of course there is a market for that and there’s a need for that I know the people that fund the sports of course it needs to be looked after but yeah I mean incredible incredible times do you remember a good mate of mine Alex Anderson of course yeah yeah very much so what Legend is good and the reason why I say that like we grew up as kids all the way through went to school together and yeah and you’re in school and then he is the most well-traveled human being I know he is the most well-connected person in sport yeah he has been to more finals and more games in Miami and more games in Japan and more games in Hong Kong and Australia and New Zealand he puts on Man United versus Liverpool in Brazil Brazil he puts Brazil against Argentina and America he has lived like three lives of traveling and putting on the most amazing event yeah and I want to get him on here oh really get him on I mean he has seen as you said the world I think it’s and no one knows yeah because he’s not a social media person he’s never been on a podcast he just he’s like a social butterfly floats around and turns up everywhere and he’ll be having lunch with Alex Ferguson then be having dinner with zenine like it’s mad yeah he does incredibly well and he’s got a very good business now I think he’s he’s broken a lot of big International fixtures that’s right so I think he’s got the rights for Brazil friendly with Bart Campbell yeah that’s right and does l the All Blacks yeah friendlies he did but they put on BART Bart’s a really good guy by the way got a lot of time for him Bart put on BART and Alex and his company called TG is it or or there’s I can’t remember what company put it on I think might T they put on New Zealand South Africa on a Friday night that’s right twickers 82,000 people the next day England paid I think it was 40,000 right how embarrassing I actually invit you thatass I know I know promoter they know what they’re doing yeah but my point is your home ground England couldn’t pack out on a Saturday afternoon and they packed out full of kiwis and sappers on a Friday night well saff got play in June playing Wales in June there which is it’s a sign of the times isn’t it sort of and more it’s going to have more and more I think yeah tell me about your relationship with L yeah Lawrence is a very good friend of mine as I said we first met back in well would have been probably just turn of yeah the Millennium um he was Captain of wasps um I was yeah in and out of nightclubs promoting nightclubs we built a friendship um he then obviously went to rug World Cup won the World Cup which is incredible um and just stayed in touch and as I said back in 2014 he invited me to be part of BBH squ which is the my first sort of experience with the creative agency stay in touch after that and then I’m now um last year I ran the marathon to sabler for his charity which is called theia rugby works and this year I’m running a 400 km race um over six days in Wales called the dragons back race with Charity so Lawrence’s charity the lady rugby Works brilliant charity um its premise is it it helps children that have been or used have been excluded from mainstream education so there’s alarming statistic that 75% of children that are expelled from school end up in the prison system yeah and that isn’t because they’re necessarily bad people dudes get expelled from school now the biggest reason is non attendance and a lot of that nonattendance is because they are the victim of bullying so what’s happening is victim of bullying on social media don’t go to school they then get expelled they then get excluded they then can’t get an education and then these are the people that are ending up in the prison system yeah which is horrific so Lawrence’s charity is they’ve got lots of sites they’re big tour in South Wales um I’ve he’s done very well for his charity has he do you know what great guy he’s actually in Italy at the moment doing his biannual cycle slam which had got I think it’s 10 days raising money he raises hundreds of thousands of pounds each and he doesn’t you know make a song or dance about it and I’m really proud to call him a mate and also as I said that you know he’s had a lot of adversity in his life and I think just seeing how someone like that has managed to you know not only lead a rugby club lead a family Captain your country captain your country your country world world just Captain your country like but by the way when they won the World Cup it was again like the sort of thing that this is going to happen again this is normal that probably won’t happen again we took it for granted cuz they our mates I know you mat some of them we just were in the pub in for with them and then 25 years nothing no can’t be 25 years but we’ve had two finals since then 23 21 years 2003 21 years yeah 21 21 years we’ve I think we’ve been in two finals since then I went to the other Final in uh when they got in 2007 in Paris against Africa Africa fin isn’t it that was actually another dark coures trip we went to to Yo to Yokohama the semi-final against New Zealand oh in Japan I went out there oh were you were there yeah that was amazing who was I I went out there and watched Japan there was a typhoon coming yes at the start of the tournament was I was like Scotland no it was a typhoon coming it was England France on a Friday night and know they said oh Japanese wheel piled out there Japanese like there a typhoon coming a I was like well there a typhoon it sounds awful but what is it I know it was going to be windy and but it was literally we’re in the hotel and it was shaking yeah and that game got canceled that night and the next day we were all like pleased cuz we’re it was Japan versus Scotland yeah and 11:00 in the morning said right it’s on they cleared all the pitches away cuz the debris and a load of people died that the night before Etc and then the Japanese national anthem come on and we had the we were there taking there behind and I think in the middle Japanese n l come on and the place erupted Cry tears every man was crying it was unbelievable and then Japan went and beat the JS I was very fortunate to go at the semis that tournament that was brilliant great great great tournament what a city as well what a country I mean I’d never been was only there for hours I mean I’d definitely go back I would it reminded a bit say remind it’s like been a year 4,000 do you know what I mean it’s like there’s no off switch there’s no off switch there’s no when you get a cab no one Saks English so I was speaking into Siri go mate can you tell him to take us the local boo up the and it go into Japanese no one spoke English Japan is like the size of sorry Tokyo is like the size of Southeast England so we like no we’ll get a cab two oh right that’s why they the bullet train yeah amazing amazing great experience that was Japan World Cup what um were you around when LOL got stung the cocaine’s thing was that in of your clubs that no that was that actually happened in South Africa so that was on he was on a uh Lions tour and just got set up by I can’t remember the publication who the world it was probably the new there’s no one else say news the world because they don’t exist anyway it was the news the world um yeah that I I actually met him just after that and again proper setup horrible job and yeah well he didn’t he I think he ended up capturing the country again but not for another sort of 10 years after that but he was stripped to the captaincy it was off the back of that jonno had it until winning the World Cup but I think what happened was as well he he was very much kept as a lieutenant by Clive wasn’t he I think it was as much as Jon was the captain I it certainly felt like it was a a Clive jonno and Lawrence sort of the three of them powerful Jesus Christ powerful but that three together don’t make it anymore no they don’t they don’t I want to roll back a little bit further what you’re speaking again you said you want into business with Jonathan how did that business break up and how did you deal with that yeah didn’t break up in the best of ways to be honest um so as I said I’d signed the likes of John Barnes Chris Kamara um Jimmy Bullard Vinnie Jones Vinnie Jones were biggest CL I was back and forth u in LA with Vinnie and it was a brilliant time that he would I wasn’t looking up for his film stuff yeah was doing a lot of his brand and corporate stuff so you say you’re looking after V give me let’s break that down what do you mean you’re looking after yeah so I basically he had a manager great guy in La called Alex Cole and I would Source commercial opportunities for Vinnie both in the states mainly in the UK and basically if you ever saw Vinnie on a TV advert in the UK I’d have broke gone out found that deal broke it that deal and I’d have earned a commission on that deal and so was doing quite a lot of Vinnie um and yeah funny enough I actually went on on a holiday to Jamaica in February just gone sorry well just gone no no back then um it was February 2014 and with my now wife and whilst I was on holiday in Jamaica my phone just went off started going off and it was my client saying oh Simon I think you should um come home um Jonathan has been calling me saying you’re leaving the company I said excuse me am I go go to my bank check my bank haven’t been paid called Jonathan like J what’s going on no answer no answer left message left messages anyway turns out that he had decided in my absence that he was basically um unilaterally terminating my contract stop paying me and was basically going to try and just move me out the company or reduce my pay and keep my clients so what he had slightly misjudged and we’ve made up for it now and you know we i’ I’ve seen him quite recently but at the time you’re on holiday you’re spewing yeah what he had massively underestimated was that he didn’t have a personal relationship with my clients and I did so every single one of them were never going to leave me in sign with him um and as I said it was just a an error of judgment on his behalf I don’t hold it against him but yeah you live and learn how pissed off were you at the time oh mate absolutely fuming I was on my holiday with my yeah with Lucy um and again probably didn’t have the skills to um manage that sort of intrusion and breach of trust I me I’m not say I G manage it well now but I’d think I’d I’d be a bit better equipped yeah there’d probably be more protections in place I mean I obviously I ended up having to get legal advice and that ended up costing me I didn’t have much money back then so there’s a sort of you know lawyer bills adds up when it in an employment dispute so you sort of yeah you kind of I think I’d be better equipped to deal with it then but it was certainly a it’s massively caught me off guard and you know what as I said I’ve got a lot of empathy for him he’s actually a very good agent and to this day he’s got a very good business what’s his name Jonathan shot shot okay his company’s called inter Talent um good business and to be fair you’d want him as your agent because he is he’s he’s a proper fighter he doesn’t you know he he doesn’t accept no as an answer so he gets his clients work but yeah probably needs to back then learn a bit more about office culture yeah yeah yeah yeah tell me about Vinnie what’s Vinnie like he lives in your NE of the woods he in pworth now pworth is he pworth is he pworth he’s got a farm funny I’ve not actually seen this do uh there’s a documentary on at the moment about his life on the farm I’ve not actually seen it um Petworth is was sa for colleges exactly yeah so I mean Vinnie was amazing I was so privileged you got to think back then do you ever watch Entourage no okay it was a TV show on HBO brilliant TV show and it’s all about these group of lads with their mate who was a celeb and they lived in Hollywood and yeah I was very fortunate to have this period of time where I was back and forth Vinnie was living in the Hollywood Hills um I was traveling I was staying Sunset Marquee West Hollywood um yeah pretty cool time really would play darts in his backyard and Mickey Rock J Jason St next door so Sunday night be darts night vinis and I be there and all these you know Al bowling and it was just such a great time weirdly probably didn’t really acknowledge or appreciate at the time how special it was because it was sort of Jim Jimmer Rhino the old Gladiator yes so Mark Rhino one of Vinnie’s best mates out there top top L like he trains a lot of the aist he’s got a little gym out there so he’s 60 years old I think Adam Brooks just had a fight fight with him Misfits he did did ad Brooks we Adam Brooks on really good so when I saw they were paired I called ad like mate do not get a rig of Rh but he don’t he beat he beat didn’t he yeah but um so that sort of that that time of V was amazing and and again I suppose at the Looking Back Now like where I’m now and I guess the fitness and and attention to detail around Sport and Veteran stuff like people like Vinnie you know these were top top footballers but they also were top top Lads and you know I didn’t look after any was playing but the sort of the dedication to the art firstly of football yeah DD’s he’s had a second career that’s been more successful in been Hollywood star for 20 years and what people in the UK didn’t realize is that there are hundreds of films and document drama he’s in we’d never hear about it and so he had one of the nicest houses on M Holland he had a big George’s flag out there F the PO like loads of footb he had a like a r out the back where he used to sort play poker the DS room and it was an incredible time and it such a top bloke we to be honest we sort of when I went into the um into the advertising business with Lawrence Vinnie and I sort of lost touch a bit um I think he’s still represented by inter Talent so funny enough when I ended up leaving Jonathan T I think Vinnie stayed there but I he was a great guy and he he’s such a good like his old school mates I still his mates still his mates yeah great that special yeah and there’s a group of lads used to go out every summer to his to his place and they are they’re the L to grew up with yeah which says a lot you know what I’d love to get Vinnie on hey let’s do it yeah let’s do it I’d love to get him on yeah I’d love to get I think yeah’s down the road the road yeah yeah we’ll make that happen yeah what’s your world you mentioned a minute ago the marathan disabler Jesus Christ just just just tell the people what the marathon diser is it’s actually happening at the moment this year so last year it was the 37th year and it’s uh six marathons in six days across the Sahara in the desert yeah so 45 55 degrees fully self-sufficient so you carry all your own food for 6 days the only thing they give you is water and they put up a tent for you everything else you’ll carry for six days so you are seriously low calorie not much water baking hot no shower no running water no toilet for a week in a Sahara and you have to pay to do that yeah mate pay a lot hold on a minute you thought a good buiness going to say and they pay me 20 grand to do it Jesus how much how much is it for you got to pay I think it’s um I think it works out as about about two and a half Grand wow um and what what gives you the Buzz for that you know we’re talking a minute ago you see I do 100 miles a week listen I get it I I I I can understand why you want to do it one the discipline two you feel great three is good for your mind four you can think a lot but why go and do something that’s in England why do you want to go and do six marathons in six days in a desert yeah I think that I mean a lot of my running STS of former therapy literally a form of cheap therapy especially during Co um I found that I was quite good at it I’m blessed with being quite slight as I said it’s a talent of the sport so you don’t need a coach you can do it yourself um it’s quite a private sport but I think where I started I did a 100 mile race in 2022 during Co I just ran around London twice it was 103 miles and I did it with Jamie Peacock the ex Great Britain rugby league player and a couple other mates and that just unlocks I mean where you must have heard of flow state which you can get when you’re in orins released on that race um oh sorry I’m that run around London I lost myself for an hour in the most Angelic hedonistic unbelievable place I was floating for an hour and that was like I need to get back to that place and so that’s the buzz I’m now searching for but going out to Morocco was I’d always heard about this race of marathan desab it’s it’s it’s quite a badass thing a lot of everyone from all over the world goes to it and I knew that it was going to be the challenge and I completed it I did really well 200 out of like 1300 wow half the people dropped out and so put it there a minute amazing thank you man congrats yeah it was it unable six man six days in that’s just it was kind of crazy unable yeah your normal bod yeah I know but I I I I’m very proud of it and but the same time I feel like um I want to explore that more and I think it’s what it does in Spades is it’s it’s training for life and resilience training because I now find that when I do these long race I did one in Italy a few weeks ago which 100 kilometers around Tuscany and that’s more like it yeah well you say that it was 4,000 meters of elevation so exha the what I find is during these long 15 hour races or whatever 24 hour races you you experience so many emotions so many times you get to a point where you think you can’t go on and you just sit in the fight for an hour or two and then you feel okay again okay and then it comes back two hours later and you’re no no it’ll pass and that is so empowering for day-to-day life I I actually last weekend I was in I’ve always had a fear of heights so I thought the best race to enter after marath and shab is called the dragons back and it’s a it’s a 400 kmet race from Conway Castle to Cardiff Castle in Wales and you go across the top of Every Mountain in Wales and I’m scared of heights and I knew that to enter that race is a proper like test myself because I could enter another ult ultramarathon but I wouldn’t be scared was that scared me so for the last six months I’ve been doing a lot of training hypnotherapy um virtual reality training about conquering my f Heights and I don’t know if you you heard of crig Ridge no so it’s it’s a ridge of Snowden which is basically like this it’s a 200 meter long ridge like that and in the race we got to go across the top of it and so at the weekend I went with a group of people and I I I traversed it and honestly it was probably the I’d say one of the greatest achievements of my life there was no medal at the end there was no ceremony there’s no but I was 900 meters Four Points of contact 900 meter drop for 45 minutes I my body I was it I can’t explain how I felt but I did it and now I feel like I’ve just as a person I’ve Advanced that is just for me I the power that’s given me yeah so when I go back there in September for the race I’m hoping don’t [ __ ] myself and fall off but I feel like that is another tick and so I suppose to answer your question it I just find it quite empowering I know that you know from taking yourself out of your comfort zone regularly not much in life scares you agree in anything if you can find happiness and uncomfort that’s the key if you can be happy in being in an uncomfortable situation you you that’s that’s the key absolutely I love it yeah what are your movements now moving forward m question so as I said sold the agency a year ago so I’ve been spending a lot of time with the family we’ve got a 9mon old girl Gracie so I’m quite hands on I say I’m hands on I have hands on darling please accept I have got hands on so I’m doing that do quite bit training obviously um I’m non-executive a few companies um I’ve just invested in a Donuts business um which is quite exciting um called urban legend and Ole Horner’s new gym brand I’ve just invested so helping him with a few bits around that so I’m doing a bit of investing at the moment but I do I’m in the early stages of um researching launching a a brand a product brand within sport which I’m I’m heading out to China in a few weeks to meet a few people so yeah I don’t want to give too much away but sort of as you know um people at us don’t sit still for that long that’s right Sor I’ve really enjoyed this oh good I’ve loved it yeah thank you for making the effort come down here certainly living an eventful life M lots of twists and turns everywhere indeed yeah you’re a good man thanks a lot thanks for timeing nice one good man son cheers mate hi guys I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did can you do us a favor and subscribe to the channel it’s totally free and it massively helps our show Cheers guys [Music]