You can support me over on
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Chris_Rail_Focus
Or by joining Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrffHlssphfdkzTkVfBdo5w/join
alternatively if you’d like to buy me a coffee you can do so on my Ko-Fi page: https://ko-fi.com/rail_focus
or by making a purchase on my Redbubble photography page: Prints, Mugs, T-shirts and much more:
https://www.redbubble.com/people/EngPhotography/explore?page=1&sortOrder=recent
Blog: https://engineeringfocusblog.blogspot.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EngFocus
BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/railfocus.bsky.social
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/EngineeringFocus/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/engfocus
The first Class 805 entered service on Sunday the 2nd of June, in this video we take a look on board and ask an important question, are they better than Class 221 Super Voyagers?
#Class805 #Avanti #avantiwestcoast
Are Avanti’s brand new class 805 trains better than the 20-year-old class 221 Super Voyagers which Avanti currently operates To be honest that’s probably not a debate I’m going to settle with this video but my first impression is they’re certainly better than other class 800 derived trains that I’ve experienced the units will completely replace Voyages that Avanti West Coast uses on the Holyhead and Chester to London services and will finally put put an end to the practice of running diesel units under the wires from Crewe to London the class 805s like most other Intercity Express Trains are bi-mode meaning they have diesel engines underneath the carriages but they can also run on overhead 25kv lines were available with a switch over in this particular instance happening at Crewe The 805s have 3, V12 MTU engines underneath each of the trailer cars and I believe they have the same power rating as the Transpennine Express Class 802s and Class 810s being introduced by East Midlands Railway with each engine producing around 940bhp or 700kw despite having almost 3,000 brake horsepower on tap units much like other IETs are limited to running at 110mph when running on the engines but they can run at 125mph on electricfied lines technically they can operate at 140mph but this requires the use of ETCS which isn’t yet fitted to the West Coast Mainline these units will however be limited to operating at 110mph even when powered by the overhead lines this is due to a legacy speed limit in place on the West Coast Mainline for trains which do not tilt I believe Network Rail is looking at reversing this speed limit on straight sections of the West Coast Mainline but as yet no action has been taken to lift what is now an unnecessary speed limit albeit for the tightest curves wet tilt would still be required for passenger comfort despite being limited to 110 mph I don’t believe the journey time will be significantly longer as the units are able to accelerate much more quickly than voyagers or even Pendolinos for that matter I seem to recall someone telling me even when powered by the engines the Class 805s can still out accelerate Voyages to 50mph so little or no time will be lost on the North Wales Coast along which trains have to stop frequently [Music] Given the fact that the units are based on IETs I expect most people are eager for me to talk about the seats and I’m happy to report they are definitely more comfortable than those fitted to TPEs Class 802s and GWR’s 800’s I can’t really comment on the East Coast Class 800s as I haven’t ridden one but I suspect the seats on the 805s are much more comfortable that’s not to say that I think they’re anything special padding still seems to be a little bit on the firm side but the seating position definitely feels better than the seats fitted to TPE units there is ample leg room and the seats aren’t cantilevered so you can stretch them out a little bit under the seats in front each airline seat has a fold down and retractable table with a reading light just above the table charging facilities can be found underneath the seat in front with a single 3 pin socket and 2 USB ports the table seats have lots of provision for charging and even have wireless charging built in the tables seem to be reasonably big although I imagine if two people are facing each other then they wouldn’t both be able to use laptops at the same time the table seats seem to line up with the windows although some of the airline seats aren’t so well positioned there is a small first class area with two plus one seating as you expect the seats feature leather headrests or something similar to leather and the seats seem to have more padding than those in standard class in total there are 301 seats per five car set with 25 first class and 276 standard class seats cycle storage frustratingly takes the form of hooks which cyclists universally seem to hate and I can fully understand why and of course with space being limited you do have to book in advance like the voyages there’s a small onboard shop located in coach C which sells coffee sandwiches and snacks moving on to the ride it’s perhaps a little bit more harsh than a voyager but it seems more than fine on continuously welded rail with the engines switched on I think the 805s are a little bit quieter than 221s but the engines are certainly noticeable when the units are accelerating however the engines are only under the three middle carriages so obviously there’s no engine sound in the front driving vehicles When under the wires they are clearly a lot quiet than voyages and sound just like any other electric multiple unit being that they’re limited to 110 mph I guess the closest comparison would be to a Class 350 and I would say that the 805s definitely seem more refined when traveling at 110mph on the West Coast Mainline than the Class 350s One thing that people have criticised is the fact that the units are 5 cars but they are often coupled together at least from Chester and they are designed with portion working in mind with the set splitting at Chester with half continuing to Holyhead and depending on the time of day the other half head heading to Wrexham unfortunately my train was very late and ran from Llandudno Junction rather than Holyhead due to technical issues and the first off peak train was only five carriages because the other unit was locked out of use due to said technical problems this meant the remaining five cars were very busy on my run to Stafford the passenger announcements were not working nor were the seat reservations but these are just early teething problems which I’m sure will be sorted quickly overall I think the seats are okay perhaps not as comfortable as those fitted to voyages but certainly better than the seats fitted to other IETs I also think the lighting is a bit better and the units feel less cramped than Class 221s whether or not I think they’re a big step up from voyagers I’m not so sure but they are more environmentally friendly and quieter when running under wires which is key I think I’d have to experience the units from Chester all the way to London in order to really say whether or not I think they’re better or worse but early indications are they’re better overall
36 Comments
Thank you for the review and update
I Think The Voyagers Are Transferring To Grand Central And Cross Country As a Result of These Class 805s and 807s Replacing Them On The Avanti West Coast But Correct Me If I'm Wrong
How long have we been waiting for ETCS on the WCML? Hopefully we'll see a train go 140mph soon on the East Coast; I hope they have a 'Woosh' sound effect to play over the PA every time they break that 125 limit. I'm still waiting for nose-cone camera on trains that you can watch on the WiFi like on airplanes but looks like i'll have to wait little longer.
Are they the same seats as class 390?
If you would like to consider supporting the channel click: https://www.patreon.com/Chris_Rail_Focus or become a Member here on Youtube
Or you can support the channel by making a purchase on my Redbubble gallery
https://www.redbubble.com/people/engphotography/shop
I’d like them more if they yellow fronts
Jen On The Move must be rejoycing! 😂
The only good things that i can say about these trains is that the inside is pretty good
Why can’t we build comfy train seats!!!
Why can’t we have the same seats as in the intercity 225s and HSTs.
It really shouldn’t be this hard.
It’s a seat for goodness sake.
It seems that there's quite a variety of these 800-series classes now. Whilst the infinite variations – I suppose – have allowed the IET-types to be improved upon over the past decade, it does seem to have caused unnecessary fragmentation? Surely a universal standard type train would have been better?
Nice ❤
Ngl they're all the same but with different class number
What’s the air conditioning like? Voyagers are pretty poor. Memories of a disinfectant smell. Think they sorted that out but are still musty.
Is there any catering in First similar to what you get on the Pendolinos? There doesn't seem to be a kitchen area so is it served from the shop?
Why can't they just be Class 802? What's the difference between 802 and 805?
4:32 It's Pendolinos where the Shop is in Coach C. On 805s, the Shop is in Coaches B & M. On 807s, it is in Coach D.
Great vid. Can you store bikes in the disabled section when they are empty. 221's really are useless for cycles
7 minutes longer. Engines are uprated. Avanti has learned lessons from previous class 8xx units.
Nice video, think the seats are roughly the same as the Class 803 which LumO operate but it great to see them finally entered service.
Should see more being built for LUMO etc for first group probably an extra unit or carriages fir Hull trains too
Excellent stuff and the chairs even look usable! Thanks for the report!
1:05 The 810s have about 45 extra horsepower
A couple of corrections (sorry):
Engines – The engines are actually rated at 750hp/560kw like the LNER versions. They have a better acceleration curve in diesel than the class 802s so they are not that much slower. They also meet the latest emissions standard and the cooler groups run off the auxiliary supply. This means they can cool the engine whilst it's shutdown – a big improvement over the 800/802 setup.
Speeds – The units aren't limited to 110mph in diesel, we've had 125mph out of them in testing!
Non EPS – Once NR unwrap the new MU speed boards, all Multiple Units will be able to run at faster speeds. Speeds range from 115 to 125mph with the units slowing for the existing PSRs round the tighter curves (Stafford/Weedon etc).
Never quite liked the Voyagers – felt lightweight vs Pendolinos and the East Coast options. But the worst thing is at Euston, when a Voyagers idling within a few platforms of whatever train you're actually getting on or off. The smog's really harsh. These 805s should be a shade better.
Can't be any worse than the diabolical Class 800s that GWR run in the south.
Great video as always Chris! Very polished! Gotta say as someone who intensely dislikes IETs for their poor seating quality and offensive lighting, Avanti seem to have done a very good job getting the best out of them here. Nothing will beat the ambience of a Pendolino, but these look reasonably comparable, which is impressive given they’re IETs.
Big believer in ambience and comfort being a big driver of modal-shift, especially on long-distance routes.
Nice one Avanti. Now run them on time! 😉
I always here everyone saying they can only run 110 on diesel mode, I’ve been on 80x from Swindon to London on 3 occasions under diesel power (don’t ask why) and we’ve done 125 on all occasions, 127 at points to be precise
Thank you for a excellent update.
Really wish they hadn’t gone with the same terrible bike storage as GWR 😭
The "window seat " at 2:55 has no window. There is no excuse for this.
Still no solution to the large
step gap, and the inherently bad ride quality.
Bi-mode makes no sense on this route. There is a lot of mass ie expensive equipment, being carried around "dead" all the time. This must give rise to unnecessary extra capital and running costs.
This will be good news for places like Barrow-in-Furness and Shrewsbury as well as Holyhead. What about running a service from Euston to Aberystwyth as well? Also, diverting Euston – Glasgow services via the Settle & Carlisle and Kilmarnock will be easy with these.
I'm still mystified by Avanti's decision to replace the previous seating used on the Virgin Trains with these far inferior ones. They are not as comfortable for the long distance services and are already fraying.
They better not replace the pendolinos on the wcml intercity service until full extra roll out and the loss of tilt can be mitigated by speed improvements over the straighter sections!!!
🚨 Bit of a correction 🚨 the units can get up to 125mph in diesel mode, "limited to" was a poor choice of words. Everything I've read or been told lead me to believe they can't achieve 125mph.
Finally, these IETs are gradually earning back the reputation of being the best trains in Britain in the future. Really hope that's what happening in the upcoming times!
Avanti and Lumo improved the IET quality in my opinion.
They're clearly better than the GWR LNER and First Hull IET's as they have very poor ride quality at top speed. So I'm saying a bit of an improvement from the Voyager. Even thought seat comfort is firm I would still say they are an improvement.
Great video