A live recording of the Disability Sport Info show featuring an expert panel debating the UK government’s Get Active (2023) strategy. We consider the potential of meeting the pledge to get 700,000 more disabled people active by 2030.
The video is best experienced using headphones/earphones.
This event was filmed as part of the University of Hertfordshire’s Festival of Ideas, Friday 17th May 2024.
I’m Dr Chris Brown I am the host of the disability sport info show and I have an expert panel with me today to consider the getactive strategy we’ll talk about that more soon um but the expert panel are here to dissect that g active strategy in more detail to consider how we can get more to say people physically active and participating in sport so my expert panel are the following I have Joseph Baines who is from London Sports his interpreter is Belle and she will be providing the audio commentary on Joseph’s behalf and we have Professor Haley Fitzgerald from Leeds Becket University and we have Laura Horton from disability rights UK and we have Dr em Richardson from the University of Worcester so thank you guys for joining we appreciate it looking forward to today so we’ve got a range of uh options in terms of how you can get involved you can uh scan a QR code uh which is on the screen now you can also go to m.com now the code helpfully is not quite right on the slide that you can see now so I can give you a new code so if you want to go to men.com you can use the following code 2428 6166 we will have a segment at the end of the show to consider some of your audience questions there will be a QR code throughout on the other slide so to focus the discussion um I just want to go through a few things before we make a start so I’ve got two graphs on the slide I’m not going to give you def by PowerPoint don’t worry just situate the discussion so at the top we have about physical activity and Sport participation so this is how active people are this is considering uh if people are do 150 plus minutes a week what we can see is at the top line is non Thea people they are doing more physical activity in sport compared to thefe people the sa people are doing less Sport and physical activity compared to nons people and there is a consistent Gap you can see on the slide that there is we fairly stubborn throughout the years that we’ve got the data for the slide at the or the graph at the bottom is inactivity so this is measuring less than 30 minutes of physical activity and Sport per week and here we have the inverse we have disabled people who are more inactive than non saave people and again it’s a fairly stubborn Trend that we’ve got so about 40% of the sa people are inactive compared to about 20% for non-save people so that Gap that consist gap between save people and non-save people in terms of their Sport and physical activ participation is what we’re going to focus on now so I’d like to turn to my first guest Dr Emma Richardson just to provide a little bit of context as to why this Gap exists in physical activity and support So Emma if you’d like to provide just a brief overview just so we can get a little bit of context before we discuss the strategy I knowe you said brief there Chris I’ll do my very best thank you um yeah hi everybody I’m Emma and uh basically my research focuses on um how to make physical activity more inclusive of disabled communi um and first of all I really want to say that you know it’s not the kind of case that disabled people are not as interested or not as motivated to be active exactly the same as the non-disabled population some people are like absolutely not the gym is my absolute worst nightmare and other people are like yeah I really really like it exactly the same for disabled people some people want to be active some people don’t the main difference is that there are so many other barriers that are in the way for disabled people than non-disabled people now I’m going to go pre-2020 you know there’s a lot of research that that that we did and we and it’s probably not going to come as a surprise that you know there was issues to access car parking spaces changing rooms um uh the uh equipment that doesn’t have enough space to transfer from a wheelchair um you know kind of disabled toilets are on the on the first floor and there stairs Etc we knew what we were kind of dealing with then um there’s been a big shift and we’ve got even more barriers now since covid-19 has really left disabled people and their access kind of behind um economic um crises have impacted disable people more so as well as all those barriers that we had before we now have even more barriers with regards to for example uh the closing down of leisure centers closing down of swimming pools Leisure centers being exponentially more expensive to to to use and to get memberships uh the transport infrastructure to get there is even more in increased and then we’ve also got you know even just thinking out side we’ve got folk that really are having to think do I charge my power chair do I use my oxygen tank or go do I go swiming you know that’s the reality that it’s a case of do I live or do I go to The Ledger Center and so we’re at this point now that unfortunately we’ve got even more barriers and even more issues with disability rights and inclusion than we had before which for me is why we’ve got this massive Gap and unless we do something quite quickly it’s going to get even even bigger well thank you em that’s uh yeah very thorough overview but brief but brief yeah but brief so yeah you did really well there yeah I mean so I think hopefully you’re getting the picture that it’s a complex situation it’s not just uh snap your fingers and everything’s okay it is going to need a concerted effort to try and reduce that Gap that it currently exists so that’s leads nicely on to the focus of our discussion today so we’re focusing on the get active strategy so for those who aren’t aware of the get active strategy this is released last year in August uh so 2023 essentially it is uh a continuation of sporting future which was released in 2015 so that was a previous strategy for the government uh is keeping the same kind of focuses but the main difference is the headline figures they want to get three and a half million more people active by 2030 so that’s the headline figure three and a half million more people active within that and the focus of our discussion today is the objective to try and get 700,000 more disabled people active by 2030 now we will consider throughout this session whether that is possible and also some of the factors that are going to be relevant to whether this can be achieved or not I’d like to now turn to Professor Haley Gerald if I may um because when reading the strategy to me one of the strong focuses of the strategy of how we’re going to get to that particular objective was to focus on children and young people so I’d like to get your perspectives Haley about what the current provision is like for children and young people and what is the strategy saying is going to happen to try and increase participation in that area yeah thanks Chris so the strategy is really premised on an action plan which is called the the school Sport and activity action plan so that’s where the main work has been undertaken with regards to thinking about school and extracurricular activity for young people um that action plan has three key areas of work if you like one is around high quality physical education and Sport the second one is around extracurricular provision and competition and the third key area of work is around equal access to PE and sports so those are the main areas of work that the action plans doing so in order to address those main areas of work there’s there’s a numerous uh programs and initiatives that have been established um so some of them you might be familiar with including incl in usion 2024 the school games um active transport to and from school there’s a program around the use of uh facilities within schools so um they can be taken advantage of more fully and also some of you may be familiar with the primary uh PE uh premium as well so there’s a whole body of programs and initiatives that have been developed um and when I think about those programs and how far we’ve got so far I have to say um I’m either grumpy and frustrated or I’m hopeful so shall we do the grumpy and frustrated thing first head a positive thank you thank you so so when I’m grumpy and frustrated actually when I look at the the action plan document uh what’s evident to me and what I note is that where mention is made of young people with special educational needs and disabilities it’s at the latter end of the main document which just frustrates me because this really speaks to the way in which quite often disabled people are positioned and placed within Society more broadly so for me I’d like to see issues around inclusion and and different groups that need to be included foregrounded with any kind of with within any kind of action planning like that so I think that’s really important are you suggesting that there’s like a almost an afterthought then when we’re considering disability I I wouldn’t go as to as far as to say it’s an afterthought however I think there needs to be more of an embeddedness of thinking about different groups and participation and that’s what I I wasn’t seeing in the action plan really um I think another frustration and this is broader and it’s not necessarily explicitly to do with young people with disabilities is the way in which competitive traditional Sports continue to be prioritized that’s a problem with PE more broadly and there’s lots of lots of research that’s that’s indicating that as well why is that an issue that’s an issue because actually the curriculum talks about activity being Broad and balanced but by having very limited activity opportunities that doesn’t speak to me about being Broad and balanced um there is some hope there though but I’ll come back to that later and then I think the third frustration that I that I have which some external organizations have as well is around the action planning just been for two years so that doesn’t mean we can really think of anything that’s sustained or the longevity of the challenges at stake so that would be another frustration so the grumpiness is is out of the way there yeah good very good I’m not going to talk about those so when I’m feeling in a much when I’ve had a good sleep and I’m feeling a little bit uh more enlightened the positive things and the hope that I take and I’m slightly contradicting myself now when I go into schools and I speak to practitioners what I’m noticing is there is an increase in the diversity of activities that are offered now to some young people and the action plan also speaks to get that and gives some really good illustrative examples so let’s do yoga let’s do tai chi let’s do cup stacking let’s do circus skills let’s do these diverse range of activities including parah and disability Sports as well and they need to be embedded within the curriculum so there is some good I’m going to call it pockets of good work going on and that I might be an individual member of Staff or it might be a PE Department it might be an academy a collective of schools Etc and also interesting because I was just thinking is there a difference or a distinguishing feature that we could perhaps highlight here between special schools and mainstream providers in terms of the quality of opportunities provided gosh that’s a really big question we could probably have a podcast just all about already pitching already ping very good I’m not going to answer the I don’t think I’m quite going to answer the question but what I’m going to get you to all think about is actually the special schools that I’ve worked in and supported there’s actually some absolutely brilliant practice going on in in terms of physical education and these are practitioners that are not necessarily physically physical education trained the reason for that is those practitioners are very pupil centered and that’s the essence of it so circus skills that definitely goes on in in special schools so I think mainstream schools could learn a lot actually from non-specialist deliverers of physical education and sport in Special School okay so from what I’m getting from what you’re discussing there we need to be broader in our Outlook terms how we’re considering Sport and opportunity it’s not just a classic he that maybe we would have grown up with or used to you know hockey football rugby that kind of thing wider yeah and there are pockets of good practice but perhaps it’s not necessarily consistent throughout the country yes yeah yeah okay um so when you were saying you you sometimes be a bit grumpy sometimes a bit hopeful is there a particular part of it you ear more to are you more hopeful or more grumpy or do it depend on the coffee you had I think I think it depends it depends on who I’m speaking to and yes I think it depends can I just give you one other option around um the ho always good for hope so so one other area of Hope which again comes through in the action plan but also what I’m seeing when I go into schools is the recognition of student voice now and I think think physical education and sport has is behind other areas that have embraced that idea we need to engage with young people ask them how they’re doing how they’re experiencing activities and support them in a way where they can help to co-construct a different kind of physical education either within or beyond the curriculum as well so I think the notion of student voice was is something within the action plan and something that I’m seeing and again that practice is quite pocketed as well and just one final question before we move on to the next section if I may um is there a distinction between primary school support and opportunities for that kind of age group versus secondary yes and what is the difference a bit different I mean it’s interesting that you’re you’re saying School sport there I I think we need to think of physical education as as something that that’s that’s broader than that again I would suggest that because primary educators are not always trained in physical education and are pupil centered young people get a different kind of experience however with Outsourcing where external companies come in now and might support physical education and extracurricular opportunities there’s a challenge there because some individuals and organizations that are doing that delivery are actually replicating that traditional model of physical education and that’s another podcast as well Chris for you we’ve got we’ve got at least two more to come commission at this point committed on recordings that’s good all right thank you so much Hale I think we’ll move on to the next section if that’s okay obviously like you said we could e carry on talking about this topic but let’s focus on the wider social structural issues that perhaps are at Play Because know that’s going to be a key determining Factor as to whether we are indeed successful at getting a 700,000 Target so I’d like to turn to Laura now if that’s okay so within the strategy it specifically says I’m going to quote I’m going to put my notes Here There is a desire to tackle structural disparities that exist across Society how would you mark the government’s current progress on that Laur I’ll try and be positive to an extent however um I think at druk um we believe that by following the social model of disability it’s clear to us that access to choice of affordable accessible safe and fun activities is a rights based issue and I’ve not seen any evidence that that that’s case from anything that’s come out um from any of the strategies um as disabled people we lose out and not not able to um be active as non-disabled people this is because of a wide range of barriers outside of our control which Emma has alluded many to um but actually it’s often including the design of our social structures um that actually put us at even more disadvantage so that Gap that we’ve already spoken about is just increasing increasing um but for us being active in a way that suits us um is a fun U it’s not a luxury it should be an absolute right and it should be something that’s that’s um afforded to all of us um and it’s so often seen as a disabled person that if I want to be physically active it’s a nice to activity it’s an afterthought like you said it’s not embedded so um when people are making decisions around if I can use my benefits on being Physically Active it’s like well I think you should be doing like your domiciliary care or other things and so it’s not seen as um as an absolute right um on average we’ve lost around ,200 each year um because of the changes that we’ve seen currently going on in government and non-disabled that’s equivalent to about 300 so again that massive um disparity so actually being able to get to activities to be able to take part is is you know and I think you you mentioned Emma that was we when we’re making decisions about can I put my heating on can I go out and have food or can I still maintain my wellbeing and actually the things that I want to do we’re having to make them choices on a more regular basis so regrettably a lot of the um other reforms and a lot of the things that we’re seeing um just kind of make physically uh makes pH physical activity even less of a realism for us um as disabled people um and then not to bring on the fear of having our benefits stopped yeah that’s that’s an interesting one because um I know you guys doing some research about the activ acity trap or you know being a bit fearful of if you’re seen to be active you know someone might suggest that you are not um eligible for your benefits and therefore that is that that you know Paradox really you want to get people to be active actually at the same time there’s potential to try and get you off the benefit system and so would you be able to just speak a little bit more about what that actually means in practice you know how many people are actually being put off by the idea of potential you know being accused of benefit cheat or anything like that how would you go a to talk about that you I mean we’re currently doing the research at the minute so I can’t give you the definite figures um but what we we we were always this was kind of like um an elephant in the room I guess it was a conversation that we was having all the time and people were telling us that they had this fear what we didn’t know was as it was it a perceptional fear or a reality already from our research it’s actually very apparent it’s a reality um and people are having their benefits stopped they are losing benefits um because they’ve had decisions turned down because they’ve said oh I will cycle too and it’s oh okay you can meet that but you don’t meet that criteria so that’s already coming out um and so what needs to happen is um a very honest conversation with um assessors of of these of pip and things like that actually that actually what to enable me being physic active actually enables me to continue to maintain my well-being and it’s not actually going to mean all of a sudden I can you know walk 5,000 steps or whatever else um so yeah sadly it’s um that I mean always perception is just as important we have to challenge that as well but actually you know it’s a reality and also at the moment we’ve currently got the government trying to tighten up the welfare system least that’s how they’ package it um you know we’ve got I think it was the other day when Rich was saying we’ve got a sick note culture um and so presumably that is counter counterproductive to what we’re trying to do maybe have more complex requirements more access needs to be active because of what you’ve been saying yeah yeah exactly and and and unfortunately time and time again what we see um is that there is this massive disparity about what one government Department’s doing versus another and that and and I think Haley you mentioned it prly is because we do not get the people who actually are going to be um affected in any of these decisions involved in these conversations um you know it’s never ever considered that actually so so you know we never asked as our opinion to go what is it that enables you to maintain a degree of consistency in your life so yeah on sadly um we just after decision after decision it’s having more and more impact on people say people okay thank you so much Laura I mean we’ve got to move on because of time I could easily again talk for a long time with you here but I’d like to now turn to Joseph that’s okay so as I said earlier Joseph’s from uh London sport which is an active partnership so for those who aren’t aware active Partnerships are County based so essentially their role is try and facilitate physical activity and support at a local level and within the strategy there was an emphasis on trying to use local authorities and active Partnerships to try and increase physcal activity specifically there is a suggestion that of the local place based investment from sport England 75% of it will be targeted at places with the most requirements physical activity in sports rates being lowest or low social outcomes so Joseph I’d like to turn to you and now um how would you assess the focus on local authorities and active Partnerships in terms of what the strategy is saying in terms of being able to get to the 700,000 Target okay so well I can give you a bit of context before um i s share my thoughts with you the strategy itself is really ambitious I feel um but also we only have it’s only like six years to achieve that Target um that’s real really challenging for a lot of organizations and obviously I feel so the strategy I don’t know that figure of 700,000 feels as though it’s been plucked out of thin air um so were there any proper discussions there with the disability organizations um and other various expertise um and obviously looking at resources as well if you look at the Active lives uh results um if you look at the year 2015 to now um 2023 only there’s only 4.2% increase um for disabled people that have um in terms of their participation um so in that time frame you’d expect there to be a lot more we I don’t see how we’d be able to achieve that figure so it raises a lot of questions in terms of like strategy we targeting exactly who are the audience um and secondly who sets the Baseline what are we measuring against and for what year is that 2015 2020 but also um the strategy as well ties into the monitoring and the evaluation so there is the problem there is the active live survey it has probably around 170,000 participants included in that survey but a very small number of disabled people so how do we kind of monitor that progress at a local level because it’s not really a a large enough sample so there’s quite a lot of questions there that need to be answered um and there’s conversations obviously that need to happen with disability organizations like disability Sports coaching um Metro blind Sports and also London Marathon as well events so all those kind of things so I just don’t know how that kind of came about really so if we’re moving on to like the role of local authorities and active Partnerships yes we have um an important role because we obviously distribute funds and we work with Partnerships obviously we have in local authorities and just to identify what’s needed in terms of resources um excuse me so strategy organizations obviously only work uh with corporate so we don’t actually deliver those activities what we do is that we rely on Charities um other sports organizations who will then go and deliver those on behalf of the active Partnerships so if you were to ask disability charity Sports and Charities to deliver there’s just a it is a really big ask because most us obviously are really struggling with funding um just so that they can deliver those it just means that we can’t always rely on The Good Will of Charities just to meet and Achieve that Target of 700,000 so it doesn’t seem to very very fair so from a strategic Viewpoint I think it’s probably a bit too much um and just throwing in what um was already been mentioned um about with benefits and is kind of like becomes a trap and they a lot of disabled people can be quite reluctant because they don’t want to be become inactive because obviously there’s the risk of the benefits being taken away or reduced so there’s all that going on and all that trying to um kind of get through those kind of issues so the 700,000 Target is a very difficult Target to reach in that sixe time frame yeah a really excellent points thank you Joseph um yeah I just like to comment on what you said about the um the 700,000 Target and where that came from I mean for me when I was looking at the data if you take the current physical activity rate for the sa people so that particular population figure if you try to get to 700,000 more that’s about 9% increase roughly that suggests we’re doubling what we’ve done over how many years like you just said is that realistic I’ll leave the open question for you guys um by shaking up the head I’m presuming no um yeah I mean also just to throw in as well um when we go back to like targeting audience you know who are they are we talking about people with long-term health conditions or are we talking about uh people that have a disability that maybe just one impair if you want to use that word like myself or are there multiple um so just trying to we just need need some more resource support there and obviously that would require more funding just to support that so who would it be which which would it be there’s no kind of mention of that in the in straty okay yeah again yeah I mean it’s just about trying to get the detail isn’t it behind the um the suggestions of what’s going to happen um I’d love to carry on talking about this but we’re a bit tight for time but what I’d say is um I think when we talking with Laura just a minute ago about what the government are doing you know we’ve also got public sector funding squee being squeezed at the moment um some local authorities are bankrupt or going into a very difficult situation so if we’re relying on that local level we’ve got to be also mindful of the fact that it’s probably going be a patchwork throughout the country um so Emma I just like to turn to you if that’s okay um for the last part of this section so we’re going to hopefully try and get some more people active um physical activity but also could be sport so potentially some people are going to be going to sports clubs or they might be using their local Fitness providers so I’d just like you to provide uh some brief comments about whether they’re able to support the policy and also the inclusivity of those Outlets you only use brief with me I have noticed this um didn’t slip yeah I think that that it’s those providers I’ve got a difficult job to do because basically the kind of the delivery of this and the success of it has almost been perf on their shoulders you know they have to do the the real kind of work for for it and if kind of think about it it’s um I can think of two ways directly and indirectly that that that folk can hopefully help and you know Laura mentioned that the social model we love the social model I’m very much um kind of driven by the social relational model so absolutely we have those access access to barriers and those physical structural but there’s also some massive massive um kind of improvements or or damages that we can do through our interaction action with people through how we treat them how we talk to them um and and and that can be have a big impact on wellbeing so I think that if we’re thinking about sports clubs or Leisure centers from a policy um kind of uh uh like perspective if people are in that position that they can do something about that then um basically you know I’m not wanting to steal laur’s kind of you know thing but you know the disability rights say nothing about us without us you know get those disabled people as as as the the the expert panel the real expert panel what can we do how can we do this um you know what kind of what ideas about I don’t know fundraising or grants or what can you do to kind of try to like reduce some of those barriers regarding transport regarding access regarding um you know it’s mainly unfortunately coming down to money um with regards to folk that are directly working with disabled people um that’s where we kind of a lot of the research that we’ve done has found that it’s almost like that first interaction there’s a fear there’s a fear of saying something wrong there’s a fear of you know um kind of like doing something wrong um and the kind of research that we’ve done basically says once we realize that you know people are people and that a disabled person is at your club or at your leisure Center because they want to be there you know that’s where magic can happen and so basically you’ve got kind of got ask you together you’ve got an amazing knowledge about what they can do what they can’t do what they want to do what they’re hoping to do and you’ve got got that technical knowhow about perhaps how to get to it and combining that you can work together and find some really fantastic creative ways to get there um and so yeah I’m going to say something immensely cheesy that my students all roll their eyes about and so when you can’t change the world change the world for one person and so focus on the person you know we talk about pockets of good practice that Haley said and those you know person centered approaches you know just focus on the person I know that when I’ve been working with you know um I work with lots of different kind of disabilities and stuff the things that I put in my bag regard are always an allen key thing or like a little kind of Swiss army knife and duct tape it’s amazing what you can do with duct tape to fix wheelchairs to kind of like make sure Prosthetics fit right to fix like you know bag um balls and stuff like that and it’s that case of where you know people are really afraid to fail but when you’re working with somebody that is has an impairment you know and every impairment is different somebody could have the same level of spinal cord injury their experience is immensely different and what they want to do is immensely different and so you know kind of work with them and you only really fail when you’re working with disabled people in a gym or in swimming or in a coach or a club if you don’t try and you’re going to fail loads of times and most of the times those are when you have the proper belly laughs that you know kind of you’re Fallen all over the place or you’ve managed to stick yourself to their Tire I did that um but it’s that sort of thing of you know when when there’s stuff around or external is uncontrollable and and and makes you grump you know sort of thing you can be the hope that somebody has by working with them by being their being their Ally being their friend and and working together to to get to where they want to be whether that is dancing about in the kitchen um to BBC Radio to in a Sunday that they can do that and you know we want it to be fun or if they want to do something more organized and more structured like sport you know whatever they want to do work with them to to get there yeah I think it’s a really important message you know not trying to impose a set of practices because you think that’s going to work across lots of different areas exactly I tried um and lots of different context and if you’ve learned anything today it’s about the use of duct tap yes we go so we’ve all got at least one thing we can take away from I do not have stocks or anything in duct tape just saying that that is just and other radio stations are available as well I haen to add okay uh we’re a bit TI of time so I’m just going to uh go straight to the last bit and within that perhaps um my panel might be able to consider the workforce on some of the coaching perhaps in their answers um I think I’ll go to Laura first first Okay so we’ve been discussing um whether it’s possible and also how we get to the 700,000 more the same active so now it’s time to put our money where our mouths are okay can we do it and for your answer because you know we’re in an academic environment I would like some supporting evidence please to support your your particular answer so yes or no with all the caveat that come with that can we actually meet this Target and why did you hold that opinion so Laura I’d like to go to you first of us okay I thought it was going to be positive but it’s a no okay good good stuff yeah no sadly I think for me what the strategy lacks is evidence that it was um disabled people were actually consulted in that all um you know and the The Silo mentality that this the strategy seems to have means it’s going to fail because actually they have no consideration of what DWP are trying to achieve or the other kind of departments and therefore so um the conversation you met you alluded to earlier around um local authorities having their budgets cut well actually so some of the things that suggested or do that’s not achievable and then if you go into health and whatever there’s loads of different things but the problem is again it’s some individuals and I’m sure it had the best intention have plucked this figure out of the air as Joseph said and have gone this is what we’re GNA do but with any thought of how why or even if it’s what disabled people want um like so for me okay thank you and you provide support everything so that’s fine good good um all right let’s move on to one of our other panelists Hal you’ve talked for a while so let’s go to you so what do you think um in terms of 700,000 Target yeah I actually I don’t care if it’s a yes or a no so there’s always one descending voice isn’t there so because for me I think the key is understanding those people that are active what the realities of their experiences are lives so for example if the target is two hours of physical education uh within schools if those targets are met what does that really tell us so what’s the backstory behind those those the time targets or the numbers that’s what I want to know so so establishing um what people are thinking and feeling and how they’re experiencing activity and of course the challenge would also be to try to think through those people that aren’t active better understand and I think our panelists have all talked about that today why they’re not active as well yeah no I think it’s a really important point I mean um some of the criticisms of the Legacy the 2012 Legacy was that perhaps there was a tick box culture you tick box culture or focused too much on numbers and actually why are people either participating or not participating that’s also equally important so I think it’s a really good point that you raised there um Joseph I’d like to come to you now if that’s okay so from a a local perspective an active partnersh perspective what’s your thoughts on the 700,000 Target um so my direct answer would be it won’t be possible to achieve uh the 700,000 Target by year 2030 purely because all the things that we’ve talked about and obviously it ties in again with funding and the positions that we’re in at the moment so in that short time frame that short time scale we just don’t have the resources available um to kind of really set that and get that established so um various charity Sports organizations delivering Partnerships wouldn’t have enough power to really move that forward to get that um figure achieved so there’s quite a lot of gaps as well that links in to education um the education would like perhaps um other other people aware of what’s actually out there maybe parents they don’t know what activities are available locally maybe because the information hasn’t been um sent out those things that disabled people themselves would know either obviously the government who set up the strategy they don’t know um what what needs are of disabled organization so when it comes with funding as well um it just just it’s just all just like a uh it’s just like a very powerless thing to be able to move on we can’t really rely on Charities Alone um so we do try and look for other kind of like funding streams um so obviously you know for that Target to be F but also currently the cost of living um you know that’s just to throw something else in and just makes it a lot a lot more harder really for um me it’s quite possible that we would have a new government soon it could quite possibly potentially be a labor government so that strategy could then just be thrown away and then start again so there’s just so much going on at the moment it’s very very unsettling at the moment so I don’t feel confident that we’ll be on track to achieve that Target okay yeah thank you that’s some really good points I think the timing of the strategy and the release of it I think it’s also important to note um it came out last year when the potential dying Embers of a conservative government um if I was being cynical which of course I never am but if I was just for this particular occasion it’s easy to have a Target if you don’t think you’re GNA have to deliver it right you can have a nice headline figure which you can get some good headlines about ultimately you’re not the ones have to worry about delivering it but that is if I was being s which of course I am not so um yeah I’d like to go to Emma now if that’s okay so we don’t have a very positive outlook at the moment so i’ obious saved the most positive person to to last um so what’s your thoughts about the 700,000 Target and whatever it can be met no it’s no happen okay good good we got clean hous yeah full house um yeah exactly what we kind of say you know what Joseph said you know where’s the 700,000 coming from what is disability even what is physical activity what are they counting that as um and yeah again it’s just one of these kind of you know picks from fer that I couldn’t have said it better uh myself and the infrastructure the the the issues the barriers that create that Gap are still there you know and and you know exactly as as Laura said as well it’s a bit like there hasn’t been any consultation with disabled people and if they are not at the the foundation and the center of what you’re going to do why you’re going to do it how you’re going to deliver it how you’re going to measure it need be in every single single step and Stage for any policy to actually be in any way uh meaningful sustainable and actually have that kind of Act of Act of change and we just don’t don’t see that if you don’t you know I think it’s it’s evident that you don’t really know what the main issues are if you don’t know what the main ISS the real issues are then you’re not going to be able to find solutions to fix those issues um and and yeah and I I just don’t see this in this policy unfortunately but I do think there are magical wonderful people out there that um yeah are doing fantastic stuff and we keep doing the doing great things whatever government we end up beh happing I’m trying to be as unpolitical as well I appreciate that attempt so thank you and yeah thank you to my panelist there for your for your answers I mean obviously this is just our perspective it’s not saying it’s definitely not going to happen um lots of things could happen and also the point I think Joseph mentioned you know there there can be events that happen that we not foreseeing obiously no one expected covid to happen that obviously impacted participation the cost of living crisis is a little bit of both you know some of it was self-inflicted um you know 49 days that’s all I say and then um also the energy crisis of course um so there are also external events that can have an impact too um maybe for the positive but also potentially for the negative okay um in terms of the questions for the panel that is it so I’m now I’m going to turn to the audience questions so I’m now going to look at my phone not just you know scrolling around here looking at the questions that you’ve got um so I think we probably have time for a few so the first question I’ve got here uh that I’m going to pitch to the panel is to what extent can the Paralympics influence to save people’s Sport and physical activity participation um this is kind of my area so if you don’t mind I might actually just answer it myself um which is a hosts privilege um so I think it’s a it has potential of course for some people but as a nationwide strategy you’re probably on a hiding to nothing if you’re just hoping Elite Sport event over two weeks is going to shift you know people’s behavior if you’re trying to get inactive people to be more active is an elite sport event which they may not even be aware of or be interested in going to unlock some of the barriers that people face might for some might not for others I think it is just one component of a wider set of initiatives that you need to try and increase participation we’ve talked about some of the other barriers and all all the other factors that are important so I think to that question it may do but it’s unlikely to do it in the the the round really can I just quickly up to one second on that for it just in terms of I think it’s an opportunity to have a spotlight on on um disability and physical activity and I think everybody involved in that movement involved in that work has an opportunity to raise some of the things that we’ve mentioned today um and that’s where we could make some change yeah no that’s a really good point um just wanted to add in to that comment that La has just made uh sport um England and the research that we’ve done last year used the national represent representative poll um which mentioned that disabled people’s views and just to get that in a positive light so that was really good to see and that should be something that we encourage just to have that visibility just to make disabled people feel like well yes you know you know feel energized by that but it’s you know obviously there are gaps in resources as we’ve identified um um when obviously which stops disable people from participating but it does influence it definitely does yeah no that’s a really good point um definitely um so I’m just looking at some of the the questions that we’ve got um I think just time before we can do one more and if you’ve not had your question answered please do again and I’m happy to have a chat with you or maybe you can email me or chat now um so apologies for that so this one is a good one to end I think are there any good models of inclusive activity in other countries that you know of um so I’ll put that out to anyone in the panel who wants to pitch in haly you want to go I don’t think we need to necessarily look to other countries um a model of of good practice that I think perhaps needs to be extended is around the idea of mixability activity so let’s imagine we have um a group that are engaging in some activity and the group that’s engaging is almost the microcosm of what Society is so all lots and lots of different kinds of people that happens in mixed ability sport so an organization called imass which is the international mixed ability movement um provides all sorts of programs where you get lots of different people that participate and those people are quite happy to participate together with all all kinds of people with different kinds of abilities so a plug for an organization that I’m involved in which is called unorth box which is non- contct boxing in our sessions we have um visually impaired people we have people that are using electric wheelchairs we have families that come in we have really old people really younger people we have people with learning disabilities we we have everybody that you could imagine in that room and you know what they engage and it’s a really positive experience so moving to a mixed ability model in sport and activity is key for me okay great thank you one last line from anyone if they want to add um I think it’s I went to I was living in Alabama for a while and it was a phenomenal place that basically was a a a a gym or Leisure Center that was for anyone that had an impairment now this included quadriplegia to um arthritis sort of thing and it was amazing because it was built with that kind of um different needs in mind sort of thing and you know I always like like I still if I see a ramp or stairs I’m taking the ramp is a bit like putting something in place to be more accessible for somebody else doesn’t mean that you exclude others you know sort of thing to include everybody means that you know like the nothing is taken away only things are added so again it’s that sort of thing of it’s not an it’s not an afterthought it’s a it’s a forth thought in my current situation I have two young kids that around of course for our buggy I still do 34 great yeah so you’re getting obviously more inclusive environment many more people may just your initial Target you know you’re GNA have a wider inclusive setting it’s fun and it’s fun exactly all right well we’re out of time um so what I’d like to do now is say thank you so much to the panel I think it’s been a fantastic show I’ve really enjoyed it our first live recording and if we have any demand we might have another one but um yeah I really like to thank the panel so if you join me now I’m just giving a round of applause I really appreciate it thank you very much but most importantly I’d like to thank you the audience for coming to see our live event like I said it was our first time doing the live recording pry fun and some really good insight and discussion from our panelists and thank you for those who submit a question like I said if you haven’t had your question answered catch me at the end we can have a little chat um but yeah thank you so much for coming I’d like to give you a round of applause as well come on give Round of Applause come on come on good there’s a room of a 100 people for those watching online exactly and uh just a final bit to say so um this oh and thank you to Chris yes oh thank you thank you that’s very kind thank you um so this is going to be technology permitting a available as a visual and audio podcast so technology permitting so if you want to relive our conversations and why wouldn’t you we’ve got a weekend coming up why would you want do that you can and you can catch on all good podcasting platforms just search for disability sport info and you can also catch on the YouTube channel that we’ve just created called disability support info and on that YouTube channel there’s going to be this recording fingers crossed and also much more content in the months to come so do check that out so just to end I am Dr Brown I’m the host of disability sport info thank you so much for coming stay tuned for another episode until then goodbye