HAPKIDO TALK #2 – Le Parcours de Miloud – Comment progresser ?

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Nobody can give you any limits. Only you, your mind, can put you in an enemy position. And frankly, I fought for a long time to cross that barrier. Some people find that I work hard, I don’t know if that’s the case, but it’s not that I want to hurt people, it’s because I’ve always worked like that. I see students asking me questions, not only about the technique, but about where it comes from, who are the masters, who are… Who is the big guy, Tichang Tzu? They will be interested in a Somokoki. It goes further than that. The next morning, I did the worst training in my life. The boss stayed, the whole series of cutters in front of me. He asked me the question, he said to me, but why are you hurting? In fact, I said, but it’s not us who are trying to hurt in fact. It’s the technique that hurts. I never said I was going to be a teacher. I never said I was going to go to Korea. I never said I was going to meet and do a demo. with Raphaël in Korea in a stadium. We’ll do it like we’re talking. By the way, let’s go. Like the first mission. Welcome to the second mission. Still in Dimitri’s company. Still teaching in Switzerland, in Geneva. And today we’re welcoming Miloud Ramdan. Who is 6th Dan. And who started the Apkido in 2003. I don’t remember. Something like that. 2003, I don’t remember very well. I think I saw it on the stats. It must be that. It’s possible. At first I wanted to invite you for a special show in Korea that we would have done with Dimitri and me because I think we are the 3 to have done the most stages in Korea, except of course in Gyeongju. But it seems to me that we are the 3 and far above the others. So we will do that for another one because Milo you had to do 8 or 9 stages. Yeah I think I did. We can’t be far from the old days. After all, there were these famous Covid years. So a lot of experience. Yes, a lot of training in Korea in different rooms. A lot of memories. We’ll talk about it. First of all, we’ll come back to the two videos that have been released since. We released the first show. Dime, did you have any feedback on this show? Yes, a lot of feedback. a positive feedback with students who are very happy to see us in another context than that of the technical, purely, to see us talk about ourselves, to see us talk about our experiences, our anecdotes and then what we are passionate about for the kiddo and I feel that it motivated us more than one. Yes, very positive. Many, many messages, many people liked it. So it’s being, well, it will be published in a month, but it’s being translated into English and Spanish. It’s long and expensive, but we’d like the whole world to hear everything we have to say. I liked the format, it’s true that it changes a bit from all the videos we can see on the little finger. We’ll say that there is a more human side, in quotes. Yes, that’s true. And a more human approach, in fact, where people express themselves, reveal themselves and then give anecdotes. And then that’s pretty cool. I liked the format. I think there’s a lot of emotion in what we brought, it felt good. It’s a pleasure to have participated. We’re not used to talking in front of the camera, we’re used to doing techniques and action. It doesn’t seem to be always humanized, because we crash, etc. Some people only see that, there’s a lot behind it. We’ll see the second one, we’ll try to do it once a month, depending on the possibilities. We’ll come back now to the Seoul video, which was released just before. It was for the trip in August 2023. There were the Spaniards and some French people, in Ivory Coast too, there was Miloud and I. Hungary too. Hungary, Ivory Coast, I told everyone. It must be beautiful. And always the same principle, two training sessions per day. And so we did this shooting, for those who saw it. Milou, you were there, can you remind us the shooting conditions? Because often in the videos, if you think that we take a studio, that we take time, that we film, that we f***, etc. Not at all! No, no, no, no, no, it’s… Yeah, as you said, Mika, it’s actually… First, you have to remember the context, so we have two workouts a day. You have to know that between the two workouts, we have an hour of break. So an hour is very, very short, finally, because… You didn’t want to take a shower for an hour. We usually took the opportunity to eat a banana, survive a little, drink and try to empty our minds. But here, the time we had was shooting moments. So each time we tried, between the two workouts, to do some techniques or after the second workout. But there was not a day where we said to ourselves, today we’re going to rest. We’ll do the techniques one by one, we’ll do a few rushes. No, no, we had to send between 1 ,000 and 2 ,000 and with the two boxes soaked. I think we did it on two or three days, in two or three times, and we were a little over 20, I don’t know, about twenty. And suddenly, everyone finds the two techniques to do, then it breaks. And then, that’s it, it went on and on. And then, redo the technique because we may need the language of the thread. We filmed it wasn’t good, we had to do it again. But no, we didn’t film the technique 20 times. We don’t have the time and the energy. And I remember the young Spanish crazy people with crazy legs, Dani and Ruben, we asked them for things. At one point they said, I can’t jump anymore, my legs don’t work. I said, yes, I know how to do what you ask me in real life, but we were in bad conditions. It was in August, it was extremely hot in Korea. It was very hot and very heavy. You can’t see it in the video, but it’s 35°C. And in a room with humidity. It’s horrible. During the training, we systematically wipe the floor because the floor is soaked. Exactly. We realize that we don’t see it, but there are bales and waxes. And then, well, we’re not in a studio with everything you need to be able to shoot quietly. It’s not the best conditions. Often the big master would come back, well, in fact, when he was going to eat, we took the opportunity to shoot and as soon as he came back, we started the course again. That’s what impressed me because I wasn’t on that trip, but I knew very well that the techniques, you had shot them in the middle of training, at the end. I thought to myself, wow, that’s impressive because he still has the energy to do that and that requires a lot of… And what’s interesting is that sometimes we had the idea to start with a technique. In fact, it didn’t work because the person didn’t necessarily choose the right technique, etc. The shooter too, the shooter has to be in shape. So you had to adapt immediately, find another technique and then… Well, you have to be hyper reactive and in 60 minutes, you remember 60 minutes, you had to… We had to shoot, quickly, redo, and everything was in the works, etc. And then, for the rest of the time, we had to go and buy something to eat. The camera bugs behind, so sometimes we had to redo because of the camera. And then we had to go for the second training. And then we had to go for the second training. It was complicated. And then we did it the second week, so already the legs… Yes, there was already a week of training. It was January 28th, there were the steps in the middle. Complicated. But it also gives a nice video that exploded, that really was… Lots of comments. It worked out well. You made a different starting format. A different thing, yeah. With a small story. People raised it. In my case, they raised it. It’s a different design. What do you mean by that? What did you give it to the audience? I don’t know. Each video, as I’ve done a lot, it’s true that if you only do techniques afterwards, it’s a bit boring. Maybe not for the general public, but for me who’s been watching this for a long time, I want to tell a little story during each video. And so, with the introduction, well… We show Seoul a little bit. We explain that many people have trained in Seoul. Koreans have trained much more than us. And it’s a bit of a tribute to the elders and the first generation of Apkido. Because we only follow, but they did much more than us. And it’s good to show also, somewhere a little bit, it’s not necessarily in Korean culture, but show Seoul. Yes, already show the trip. I know I showed the video to friends who don’t do martial arts at all. or the family. I think it’s a little over a minute, I think something like that. The intro. They really liked it because, wow, it’s awesome, it’s awesome. It’s a big metropolis. They found it really nice. And then it goes on and on and on. And when I say it’s going fast, be careful, because people often think that there is no acceleration. It’s real speeds. I still can’t say it because … I saw a lot of videos, today with technology we can accelerate and so on, I guarantee you that there is no acceleration, it’s really the speed, and we can see it well because there are black belts, there are color belts, there is no traffic on the videos, what you see is what happened. I can only confirm it since I did all the last ones, I never … There is no cheating, even 1 % There is no scam, there is no… When people jump high, they jump high, when they hit hard, when you break 10 boards, it means you broke 10 boards. There is no cheating. None. And yet there are many other videos of Apkido that I would not name. So that’s it for the first two videos. I forgot the gift for Miloud. Each guest has his gift. He will explain to you what it is. What is this thing? yeah! Even better! I’ve been looking for a red bandana for a few days now. Paloma found this one for me, he had it at home and he’s selling it. He bought it in Corsica, because Miloud is very close to Corsica at the same time. And now we’re going to be able to start your journey. You’re going to explain how we get there with a red bandana at training. How do we get there with a bandana? Until the 6th of January. Well, it’s great. It seems like it was going to be a blast. You really went into my story. I know my anecdotes. I even say that I have photos that may be published live. I don’t know if it was red. I think it was blue, but it’s possible that I had a red one too. But indeed, the symbolism of that… I show you the camera. When I started Ape Kiddo, I had long hair. I could grow my hair, I had long hair. So when I came to training, I put a bandana on my head, just to keep my hair. A bit like the Corsair flag, I don’t know if you can see the head, with the dead. And I got there like that. But it wasn’t to give me an insult, it was because I had long hair. Practical. Practical. And at that time, there was Cyril, everyone knows Cyril, who comes to my hand and says, it’s not really the style of school. I don’t know, I didn’t understand it too much. I said, but I don’t understand. She said yes, because you know, we’re… And then I never slept again. And I came with a kind of headband. I had a headband too, which I kept for a while. And I think I ended up shaving my hair because it bothered me too much to have long hair. But it’s not bad at all, because it made me go back a few years. 20 years now? Yeah, more than 20 years. Just to make a connection with the first mission, where we talked about the electro -shock, where there was Dimitri, Alexandre, Diego and me, where we all started with something else, another martial art, and we arrived at the first class, as you saw in the first mission, where we were shocked by the kicks, etc. Milou, I think you had never done anything before, and yet you got hooked right away and stayed 20 years. Can you tell us about that? Yes, indeed. I really arrived at the most… by chance. I think you went to Aikido. Exactly. I was supposed to be 30 years old. I’m not serious, but I’m 53 years old this year. And when I started, I was about 30 years old. And at that time, I was doing… cycling, running, weight training, etc. I was a bit fed up with all that, and I was with a friend of mine, called Nono, and I thought, it would be nice to do karate, kung fu, etc. I loved martial arts when I was a kid, because it’s a bit like everyone else, in Bruce Lee movies, I still have VHS at home. In Algeria, I had a uncle who did karate, which was a black belt, so every time I went to the Blades, he did his kicks, etc. I loved that. But it’s true that I never had the opportunity to practice. And at 30 years old, I said to myself, let’s try to find something. But when at 30 years old you say, get up, it’s going to be a little complicated, we went to Aikido. And at the time we found in Villorban, where I lived at the time, an Aikido club where there were training sessions per week. So we went, we signed up. First week, second week, third week. It was nice but… It was good. I was doing my classes and then… I think I arrived at the fourth week, after a month, I left the gym and I heard… I’m in the locker room changing to go back home. I heard screams. Screams. I thought, it’s weird, I’m going back to the dojo because I called it a dojo at the time. I open a world like that, I don’t really know what it was, I go back to the reception and I ask the receptionist, what is the course, they say it’s abkido. I go home, I go on the internet, I watch abkido and I discover that it is a Korean martial art, so I go to Yongsol, Compagnie, J &J. I come back a week later, I do my Aikido class with my friend Nono and I say, come on, we’re going to stay. We’re going to stay and watch the class. So I go in. I already hear what he’s going to say. I go in and everything. I go in and everything. I see the class. I say, can we attend? So yeah, no problem. I stop the class. And in fact, I watched the class in full. I was shocked by what I saw. I didn’t understand. It was going very fast. I saw falls, I saw cuts, I saw techniques… It’s crazy, it’s a lot of things. It was the Jig Jong Kwan? It was the Jig Jong Kwan, it was Raphael. It was the Tronchet Gymnastics? It was at the Tronchet, in the first gym in France. Very few people knew about it. And frankly, I thought it was not possible. These people are crazy. First, physical abilities? Physical abilities, intensity, rhythm… The students were there, they were all giving their best. But really, I was… I said, wow, we’re not in a movie. Everyone was sweating, etc. And that day, the luck was that I arrived the day Raphaël was putting the diplomas back on. Cyril and Mohamed. Ok. That we mentioned in the first episode. Cyril and Mohamed are the two figures of the GK that you mentioned. They just received their diplomas. As we do now. What was it? Promi and Dan? Promi and Dan. Cyril and Mohamed. And there was a pot at the end. It’s practical, these pots. And we propose to drink. And I was like, what? You’re here, you’re watching, and then we’ll test the course, and then we propose to have a drink, you share at a time like that. And then I started to exchange quickly with people. And so I asked Raphaël, I said, can I come and try next week? Knowing that I was still in Aikido, but I hadn’t paid yet. I hadn’t paid my subscription yet, it was a month, I think, in the middle of the year, well, five weeks. Don’t do that, sorry. Pay fast. Pay fast. You can’t do that when you’re not paying. I’ll be back next week. I’m not going to Aikido at all. I’m not going. I’m coming for the Aikido class. Is your friend following you? No. I came alone. I came alone. And I’m doing the class. And then… With the bandana? With the bandana. How did you get up? I don’t remember, but I think I had to put on a short, a T -shirt. Not like a body, you know. Short T -shirt, since my bandana. And I went on the mat and I tried not to let go. I was doing sports, so I had, I think it’s a bit of a physical condition, but I had never lifted a leg. I had never kicked in my life. In Aikido, I never did a kick. I never did a kick in my life. Never. I never did a martial art except for those 4 weeks in Aikido. I just went crazy. The whole kick -off series. And then I met a student, an old man, even older than me. You didn’t mention it in the first episode. Very few people have known him. It’s Mustapha. Mustapha. Maybe we’ll do it. We’ll talk about him too. And we called him Oyama. And I’m doing the technique with him. And then… And then… I don’t understand anything anymore. I don’t understand anything anymore because I tell myself it’s not possible. It hurts too much. When you watch the videos of Apkido or you see the keys… And when you feel them for the first time in your life, you say to yourself, wow, it’s broken, it’s not possible. You don’t understand why you hurt. And I was crazy. I finished my first training and in my head, that’s what I want to do. It’s simple, it’s what suits me, it’s intense, it’s physical, you push, it hurts, it’s hard. And deep down, I think that’s what really suits me. Because today I’m still in this intensity, even at 53 years old. I like to put myself in the hard, in the red. And in fact, when you work, you have to go to the limits. If you stay in your comfort zone, you can’t evolve. And there, with the little back, we are constantly, constantly. Since I started until now, I feel like I’m still in the same position on this first course where it was hard. And… I really got out of that class, I was crazy. I was crazy, and from there I was always on the internet, I watched, etc. And for the little story, I’ll tell you something that I didn’t tell many people. It excludes this goal. It excludes this evening, I went home, I took a shower, I ate, I went to sleep, and in the middle of the night I was thirsty. I was super thirsty. I woke up in the middle of the night to go see the show. I went to turn on the light in the living room. When I did that, I had my handkerchief. I swear it’s true. I couldn’t move my handkerchief. I didn’t feel my handkerchief anymore. And the same on both of them. I told myself, shit, he took keys on both of them. With Mustaphe, I told myself, he broke my wrists, the asshole. But really, I told myself, fuck, but really, for 20, 30 seconds, and then I found my wrist again, I said, that’s crazy. And that had marked me. Because sincerely, for 20, 30 seconds, I said to myself… It’s good, it doesn’t work anymore. It’s the key when you never have the key. I was scared for 20 -30 seconds and then I thought to myself, wow, it’s effective. That kind of intensity of pain that you felt. Really. Until now, for me, in the videos we see a no pain, no rap kiddo. I told him once in Tunisia, I met a practitioner and he asked me the question, he said to me, why are you hurting? In fact, I said, it’s not us who are trying to hurt, in fact, it’s the technique that hurts, in fact. And if your technique doesn’t hurt, in fact, there is no technique. In fact, this slogan there, it seems silly. It’s the most true. It’s the most true, in fact. And me, since the first class, until now. But really, from the first class until now, for me, that’s what’s important. It’s not about hurting the other, we’re not… not a fool, not a fool, it’s not a will to hurt the other. And in the end, we hurt each other very little. And in the end, we hurt each other very little. I’m just saying… Nothing to be proud of. But it’s not a will to hurt the other, it’s simply that if you really want your technique to be effective, you have to hurt yourself. And me, from my first class until now, that feeling is important, even if you want to learn. It’s important to learn. It’s not the only one, but it’s one of the best signs of pain. It’s good. Because you can hurt without the right technique, but if there is the right technique, there is pain. There is pain. And I think you have more risk of hurting yourself when someone doesn’t master the technique than when someone who masters the technique. But I’m more afraid to give my arm to someone who doesn’t master the technique because in fact, as we often say, he’s going to go like a sheep. whereas someone who really knows how to do it will go to the limit. So for this first lesson in history, I actually get there, I take a lot of the role, I end up with Mustapha, who has a crazy point, and this outfit where I woke up, and since that day I’ve been doing this. And you saw for the first time that I’m in action, is there something that marked you? I didn’t really observe him at first because I was in my own thing. I always did sports a little bit alone. I go into the thing and I wanted to be at the height of everyone. That day I wasn’t focused on him. I was focused on the whole. For me, he was the teacher, he was the boss. He was the one who mastered. But I was impressed by the whole group. The dynamic. That’s what impressed me. And once again, the week before, when I came to watch, the fact that people come to you easily, we always have the image of the martial arts where it’s a closed world, or you’re not part of the team. It’s like when you arrive in a club and you’re not known. And there, no, you can’t do anything. Often people tell us, we, the GK, etc. I arrived with my bandana and I joined the group. You said Mika was the first one. Everyone greeted you in the room. Clearly. There is no such thing as you never trained. It’s normal. I arrive. I never felt that. And it was even further because I signed up. Did you pay? I paid. I had the chance to meet the gym owner of Tronchet, <|pt|> <|translate|> <|notimestamps|> so <|pt|> <|translate|> <|notimestamps|> Amilor Baik, who wasn’t very far from my place. And very quickly, I found myself part of the group, which we call the old ones now, Bruno, Damien, well… I was the first one to know them. But I really did. And yet, at the time, I think they were blue belts. Bruno. They were a little ahead. They were a little ahead, they were blue belts. So Célia and Mohamed were already black belts. And I think before that there was Fred, there was Fredo too. Fred was already there. But I arrived in a group that already existed. You got into this problem? Yeah, no problem. So you quickly start at Saint -Didier -Mondeur? Yeah, I think very quickly, after 5 -6 months. And you are more far away from it? Yeah, it’s further away for me. You have to go through the tunnel? You have to go through the tunnel, you have to climb, it’s for about half an hour. But no, I did it directly. I did… 4 training sessions per week. So very quickly, a lot of training sessions, first dan? Before that, there is very quickly a lot of training sessions. When I say a lot, it’s really at least 4 times a week. Until the blue belt, I remember my first session. I remember my first session, the yellow belt. I even saw recently, not long ago, an old yellow belt at the time. I met him at work and he said, you’re always training? I said yes. He was shocked because it was… It went up to 20 years. And he’s long. So, Yellow Belt, my partner at the time was Olivier. Yes, with a name that starts with D. I forgot, sorry, you’ll excuse me Olivier. He was my partner. For professional reasons, he’s a little distant, but I made a lot of relationships with him. Until the accident. I’ll show it to the camera. Of course. Tricycle fracture of the clavicle. I loved falls. So we were in a session where we did our copy and stuff, and as we do every day, we do the falls. And since I had already started working on the carpet, on the big carpet, I thought I would do it on the small carpet. I start on the right, you do it, I was happy, you see. I do it on the left, once, great. And I do it the second time. And then I hear the sound of the fracture. And I think the whole room heard it. And I get up, I don’t really understand what’s going on, I can’t get up anymore. And I think Fredo told me, he said, Raph, he said, he’s out of the room. I go out, I go into the locker room, and the pain was getting less intense, so I felt like I was going to die. I know I finished in an emergency. So triple fracture of the clavicle. How did you fall on the floor? I fell and I think it’s my… Instead of tapping with my arm, I was tapping with my elbow. My elbow that raised my shoulder. It’s not the shock on the floor. It’s the elbow that raised my shoulder and the back of my shoulder that had to fold the clavicle. And there I was like a crazy. Psychologically I was like a crazy. On the one hand, because of the pain. You have to know that breaking the clavicle is horrible. Because you use the clavicle every day. You have to eat… In fact, for everything. You can go to the bathroom, you put everything, really everything. The clavicle is gone. For everything. And I’m like a dream. Despite the pain, you see that you will miss training? I was not going to miss the training, but I thought it was over. I was so drunk. I thought it was over. And while I was in my lancet, with a blue belt, I was super happy because I had done some great… I think I had done some great steps. It was like something was stopping. A wall. A wall. And psychologically, I was followed on Villeurbanne. clinic with good specialists, but the guy didn’t want to operate on me. And I started looking at what we could do. I knew that athletes were doing surgery, you can put plates on yourself, etc. And he said no, you have to wait. I said, but I can’t wait. Not possible. And I was really suffering from a martyr. Because you were wearing a kind of pants to keep your shoulders like that. I had learned to sleep like a mummy. I had learned to eat with my left hand. I was doing everything with my left hand. I couldn’t cut my meat. Psychologically it was quite complicated. And then my doctor told me after three months, I thought, how does it work? The classification is starting to get better. He said, but we’re going to wait because it could be that it’s getting worse and we’ll have to operate. And then I said, but no, you can’t tell me stuff like that. And when it got better, and in fact, little by little, it started to take over and I started training again. Before the blessing? Yeah, I started again. It was a way to psychologically get back on track. Because I thought, no, it can’t stop there. So I went back to training. I started doing the kicks. Of course I didn’t do the falls, I didn’t give it my all, but I was there. And then I started doing the technique with the left leg. Very good exercise. So, do the exits again. First program, then the left leg. And the idea was for me to say to myself, no it’s not over yet. Psychologically, I’m here. And it came back like that, until the day I started to do pumps again, etc. And to come back on the carpet. But it took… What year is it now? I don’t remember, but since I started in 2003, I think it was the second year. Maybe 2005, something like that. So it was a very difficult year, psychologically, physically, but I had to keep going. And coming back, even after the training, without any good results? It allowed me to say to myself, it’s not over yet. You hang on. There’s a possibility to keep going. And even if you tell me, maybe you’ll have to… I thought maybe you’ll have to go left. Because I really didn’t do anything with my right hand. My right arm was like this. I had a right arm like this. Sleeping on my back without moving for a whole night is extremely complicated. You really have to put yourself in that state of mind. So there was only the mind. And I think it maybe… Maybe it’s what forged my mentality. Like we said in the first episode, it’s funny. Yes, but that’s it. But it doesn’t stop there because I come back, little by little I get my right arm back. Very few people know all that. I get my right arm back, but I enter a complicated phase. Because you have the feeling of falling. And it’s complicated too. Because I was falling to the right, I was falling to the left, I was falling well. And so you think, wow. But it’s in the head, psychologically it’s extremely complicated. Back to the injury. Back to the injury. And when we see how you fall again now, in the video in particular, and with these conjoining that you do. I think that… You said it earlier, we talked about it the other day, it was earlier… When you go through such tests, where do you say to yourself, it’s good, I give up. Or you have a sick mentality and you say to yourself, okay. And you will have to look for it. Because there is a young person who is there, who will boost you, you have colleagues who are there, you have friends who are there, people who will push you, etc. And thankfully they’re here, but if it’s not in there… If you don’t look for what will help you to move forward, don’t hold me back. Because I can be there, I can be your friend, go ahead, don’t let go, go ahead. But I can only do one part, and there’s still this part I’m going to do. It’s a help, if I want to. If you don’t want to, don’t hold me back. And sincerely, the master of the word is to say that… Nobody can put you in a limit. Only you, your mind can put you in a limit. And frankly, I fought for a long time to cross this barrier. Because the psychological barrier is enormous. And when I see the first video, where I found myself as a partner of Kondjonin, Raphaël, who was turned by pure chance in Corsica, I was going to be on YouTube. I didn’t think I was going to be a partner. It was post -Racism. No, it was after a while. But I never imagined I would be a partner. Never in my life. Never in my life because you see the partners, you see Siri, you see Mohammed. You say, but they’re aliens. And I tell myself to go through this, to have this injury, to have this fear of falling, to tell myself it’s too complicated to fall, etc. And to find yourself years later, to be on a video as a partner of Raphaël, it’s going very fast. It’s pride. In fact, everything is possible. And still years later, now in 2024, I’m still falling on the videos. Yes, yes, yes, yes, the passage, we were talking about the passage earlier in Korea, last August, last year, the grade passage. I remember… Tell me how the first leg went. Of course. You have to know that the sixth leg, I didn’t know what was going to happen. I didn’t know what was going to happen. So we decided to go on. The boss told us that the training would be at 9am. Not 10am, but 9am. And we did 3 hours of training. 9h30. What was planned was that we would do a little training session to do the next step. And in fact we did 3 years of training. But it was real. We did 9h30. In another Dojang. At Master Kim Yoonsu. And where they were doing… Same thing, 45°C. We went from one room to the other. There were two rooms and we went from one to the other because it was too hot on one side. We left it and the students cleaned it up while we were training on the other side. Then we changed. But conditions are really sick. We do three workouts and we go out and we go back to the main room. And then I said to him, I’m going to buy myself something to eat. The boss said, you’ll be back in an hour. I said, wait. We had to work three hours. I went, I took a banana, a kind of rice… The triangle? My triangle. And I come back and I’m like, hurry up, we’re starting now! And I’m like, wow, actually, here we go. And actually, when you say here we go, in Korea, when you say here we go, actually, here we go. There’s no transition, there’s no phase. No, no, no. In the highway, you have a… You don’t have any assertion? There’s no assertion. No, no, it starts right away. It starts right away. And actually… I’m telling myself… I’m really blinding myself. In a direct bubble. In a direct bubble. There are two red belts. I remember that. Our boss said to us, it’s time, let’s start now. And frankly, I just put my double back on, which was soaked. So the two red belts… and the two future 3rd Dan. And I said, OK. I said, well, in my head, I’m going to send. In my head, I had put myself that I was going to send as much as I could. In fact, I had completely erased the 3 hours of training in the morning. But really, I had completely erased them in my head. And I knew I was going to send, in fact. Without any pretension. I have no pretension. I knew I was going to give it all. And for me, in fact, I told Raphaël, to Kronjeonim, if I pass my 6th dan, I want to pass my grades as I have done until now. That means I want to do everything. I want to do the falls, the kicks, the technique, I want to do everything. Maybe because I didn’t want to be considered as a guy who was over 50 years old. But in any case, I went into it and I found myself in the middle. I remember that, I was in the middle. And in fact, the others were going on and it was me every time they finished. So I said to myself, well, in fact, it’s going to be a blast. And very sincerely, I think that for me, psychologically, it’s my best step through the grade. Because, for example, the falls, so, in a kick, I was, I think I was in another dimension because I was totally going for a kick. But really, I was, but hey, when you already did. You did one week. Your brain is in another one. You did them by 5, so you were there. When you do 2, it’s easy. And the falls, it’s the same. I think the falls… I remember very well because Raphael was in front of me and I think I did the outbang. I think I took off well. And Raphael was on the table. Basically, yeah, good. And I did everything, when I saw John, really everything, everything, everything. And then when we went to the technique, it’s the same, I had Ruben, I had worked with him, we had sent heavy all week long, systematically, because we started sending both, the boss, every time he showed a technique, we sent it, and yet we have two totally different scales. An excellent partner. An excellent partner. I love his way of working. We were really in it. The first two years went by in two hours, I think. I don’t remember exactly, but it was long. It was long. But it was in my blood, I didn’t leave. I didn’t leave my blood. Because I started… Just when the first dan had passed. We’re a bit on the side. But even then, I was in my bubble, I didn’t look at anyone, I was focused. And in fact, I started at the same time as the third building passed. So you did 3, 4, 5, 6. We did 2. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. I did 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Finally 2, 3 with them. And then you end up alone doing 4, 5, 6. And in fact, I was in my bubble to the fullest. To the fullest, to the fullest, to the fullest. And I didn’t even… I even followed myself when I was on the Pobac, I think. Yeah. When I was doing a projection, I was in a bit of a rubén. I remember that there were moments when it stopped. It really stopped. People were like… But because I was in my thing. And when it’s rubén in front of you, you can go fast. You can go fast, you can go hard, go all out, do your technique with all confidence. Because you know the guy is going to follow you. And then there’s the moment at the end. But that’s where you see that you’re going all out. So at the end of the technique we do in the straight cuts, so there’s the kick on the racket. And we go on, so… And you feel that the fatigue is there anyway, because three hours in the morning and then we’re already… Especially when the technique stops. You breathe a little, you come back in your mode, there are only the kicks left. There is a pause and maybe a kind of relaxation. I do the Dvodalchegi, I do 3 or 4, I don’t know. Then we go to the Chundan, I do 1, then I say to myself, next time you will see it. And there I hear, I do it and I feel I’m hurt. I feel I’ve hurt the abductor. And then, the doubt started to come up. And you’re dead because you say, no, not there. Because there, I miss, come on, four cuts to do, let’s go. And I try a second time, and I say, it doesn’t work. And boss, we go straight after, in Tshundan, in Dja, sorry. And I try and in fact, impossible. Impossible. And there, I believe, for the first time in my life, I have… I have tears in my eyes. Because I’m like a maniac. We can feel the intensity you wanted to put. It’s like we’re taking it off. 90 % of the message. I’m here, I’m at 90, 95 % and I’m missing something. I really wanted to give the best for me, but give the best for the boss and Raphaël because they took me. They trusted me. And I wanted to tell them, even at 53 balls… I wanted to show that I was capable of sending young people. I wanted to show that it’s not because I was 53 that I wasn’t able to send. I really wanted to show that I was going to send until the end. And in fact I was disappointed. I think I said it. I really felt, not a war of generations, but that you wanted to represent this generation, while you had… Now everyone knows you and you’ve seen on the videos, but it’s true that maybe the young Spaniards or others, they didn’t see you live. And often, well, on the videos, we never know. As they say, maybe we think everything we do is shooting or something. But it’s true that I felt you wanted to defend your age a little. Yeah, that’s right. And what you were able to put. In fact, it was to show that Kido, in fact, there is no limit. For me, when you see the boss, in fact, when you see what he is. When you see that on some videos people don’t know his age, but I think that on a video… I saw him hitting at 60 years old, more than 60 years old. I’m 10 years younger than you are at that time. So when you see how they send it, you say, but in fact, I still have a margin of progression. Yes, I will never be the boss, Raphael is, they are apart. We agree on that. But that means that I still have a margin of progression. So I wanted to show that I was going to send it. I can send it. And in fact, I’ve always worked with that. And so, I was a little disappointed not to go to the end. But really, and when we finished, when the boss congratulated us on the passage, I don’t know if you can see it, but there are photos where I actually turn around and I have tears. I think it’s the first time I cry after a passage. When I say I cry, you have tears in your eyes. Because in fact… I have tears in my eyes because I was happy to have sent it and I had tears in my eyes because I would have wanted to show the master that I am still going and I will not give up. And the fact that I couldn’t do the last 3 -4 kicks, I was a little disappointed. But it was for me the most intense part. The most intense I have ever lived is this one. He was very intense, especially in emotion. I saw your 3, 4, 5 and 6. The 5 was incredible too, but differently. And the 6, well yes, I have photos that I didn’t publish. But yes, you are very touched, you may also be touched because you are one of the first 6th Dan to arrive there, the first of St. Didier au Mondeur. So maybe… Yes, it’s very symbolic, it’s very symbolic because I never started Aptido. to become a master. I never use that word for myself because for me, a master is someone who has dedicated his life. The boss, Raphael, other people. I don’t consider myself a master because I have my life, my job, my family, etc. But yes, there is this side where… When I look at it in the back, I realize that you started with your bandana. And you went through that. I never thought that one day I would be in Korea. I never had any idea. And you arrive, you’re sixth Dan. I was actually Raphaël’s first fourth dan. That’s another story. When I was in 2012 or 2013, I don’t remember. At that time, Raphaël, when we were in the bedroom, I don’t know if you were there. Yes, I think so. They told you it was the first one. And he gave me the belt. He gave it to me in the bedroom, we were 12 years old. And in a really solemn way, it had marked me. Because he told me… It was my first fourth dan. And I said to myself, no, but he was my first student who entered the white belt and finished fourth dan. And that was an honor. I have very few people who know it, but for me it was huge. And there, in fact, to have renewed that on the sixth dan, Yeah, it’s something that’s worth a thousand times the diplomas or whatever you want. You don’t need a medal or a cut, it’s something that stays marked. Even if people don’t remember it, I have it in my mind. It’s a life, I don’t need to show it to people, it’s in my head. It’s between me, Raphaël and the boss. And to go to the Dan in Korea too. I often have questions from students. To go to the North Korean center, to go to the Dan, it must be something in relation to here. I wanted to talk about my… Listen, you’re interested. There are a lot of things that happened. My first Dan, the first time I went to my… When I went to my first Dan, I went to Korea. It was my first trip. First trip to Korea, we are four. Four, you can imagine, we are four. I’ll talk about it later, but when I passed my first stage in Korea, I passed it. The boss congratulates us. Alexandre Sauret had passed his second stage. We were in the boss’s office in Ansan. You remember Ansan? You were stupid. Ansan was extraordinary. We are in the boss’s office and he officially puts my belt on. And when we take the picture, he took my hand. He took it by the hand. And that’s the same. I don’t know how to explain this thing. Someone who takes you by the hand. A guy who has… I’m not talking about your culture, but your… The boss is my father’s age. There are a lot of messages in there. It’s just huge. And when you take it by hand, the belt you forget, because it’s actually the hand that counts. It’s not the belt anymore. The belt… Yes, the belt. But you take it by hand. The tactile is… It has a lot of meaning in the tactile. Yes, the black belt is a symbol. In Korea, you start with the black belt. But when a person takes you by the hand, it has a lot of meaning and a lot of value. Really. And that… When you’ve lived that, you… You have stars. Yes, you have stars. So maybe that’s what made me want to invest in Korea. I wanted to go all out and say, I’m going to Korea because that’s the strong symbol. So yes, I went to Korea. The second time, I went to Lyon. The third time, I went to Korea. The fourth one I went to Korea too. The fifth one I went with the two friends to Floryeux where it was, as you said earlier, it was different. It was… A very big rhythm. A crazy rhythm. A crazy rhythm because we finished, I think we… We went to the Quick or KFC, we don’t know, we went to the Polka because we were in… I think we were in Pogli Semi, but really. But even the sweaters, they were… And the 6th, last year in Korea, the symbol of Korea, to pass your grades in front of the Grand Maid for me is very important. And to pass it in Korea is something else. Because we are at the heart of the Berso, of the Bkido, we are in front of the figures of the Bkido. There, in the last year, Kim Hoon -tae was also there. The new director. The new director of GK. He comes to you and says… He congratulates you. That’s great. While the guys are… During the first episode you mentioned people. I saw them at that time. I was traumatized to have seen them. I was traumatized. I think we don’t realize it. We’re talking about Master Young for example. It’s incredible. We’ll come back, maybe. I think so. We’ll cut 2 seconds. Go ahead. It’s about coming back to the intensity. To pass your 6th dan, there’s the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, we don’t realize it. Already just to pass 4th, as we’ve done physically. I tell myself, 2 more dan and the training before for a week, every day. And what’s incredible is that you put yourself in your bubble, I forget the training before. I do a reset. In fact, you really have to do a reset. Otherwise, if you start calculating and you say, I did 3 hours of training this morning, I don’t have time to eat, I don’t have time to drink, you’re already setting limits. The human body is a phenomenal machine. When you see what the Koreans are doing, at least this generation, with whom Raphael trained, the march of progression is huge. Yes, of course we are not in this middle, constantly, but we are lucky to have Raphael who, for me… Frankly, I don’t know if he’s inhabited by the little one. Sometimes when I see him, I don’t say it all the time. You have to be a little more careful. But frankly, sometimes he impresses me. But really. People are impressed when we see them wanting to kick, etc. It’s very impressive. Nothing to say. it’s not the most… But he impressed me in situations where… or in fact, it’s his posture that is impressive. I have a very precise example. So there is Raphaël, indeed he is technically, he is a monster, in the form of the kick, the techniques. And then I, in the techniques, it’s the same, I also saw him evolve because … The more he advanced, the more he knew the techniques and the more the techniques were part of him when we see him. Really inhabited. But what impressed me was that one day we were on a forum in Champagne, Champagne -London. So, an association forum. And we’re there and people come and then it was a bit outside. I feel like it was outside. People could come and try it. And then there was a guy who was coming and I felt a little hot, man. And at some point he said, yeah, when I have a girlfriend, he says, but if I belt you, you won’t be able to. And there I see the scene. So he comes and grabs him from behind and really tightens him. Really. And I say shit. I’ve seen that many times too. You don’t know if you’re going to Franco, but we don’t know. Or you don’t know if you’re playing with him. It’s always tricky. That day, he really struck me. I don’t remember when or how many years ago, but it’s the same. That’s when I understood something. I see Rafael and you see that at every moment he really masters the situation. The guy in front of him, he thinks he’s holding him back. I see that Rafael lets himself be led, that’s exactly what you learn when you start to be 3rd or 4th dan. And I don’t know how he does it. If I take scrimmage and I think he’s holding his fingers, and the guy is on the ground with Rafael’s knee on his neck. And then I say, yeah, okay. Wow. And you understand that it’s a master. And you understand that he masters. And you understand that the technique you learn, we are there, we learn it. We learn it, indeed, we see that there are bases. The guy holds you, but when someone holds you in the street, in fact, it’s not that he holds you, he is static. No, he tries to make you fall. And there, the guy, that’s exactly what he wanted to do. That is, he caught Raphaël, he wanted to lift him, he wanted to make him fall, but in fact, at no time could he do it. And I said to myself, he ended up on the ground with the knee of Raphaël on the wall. And you see, it’s effective. Well, that day, It’s one of the times where Raphaël has really impressed me. And that’s when you understand that the techniques you learn, we learn them. Yes, we are face to face. In a frame. It’s important to have a frame when you learn something. But in fact, it’s very fluid. It’s very fluid. And it’s really the technique. In fact, he made a technique to learn it when you’re in the basic. But you have to place it in the context of stress, of movement. The strength of the other etc. It impressed me, really. I’m going to go back a bit. When I arrived in 2010, you were second Dan, because you were third in 2011 when I was there. I saw you in Korea. I have the video of you taking your stick in the tibia. We’ll put it in. It’s a sequence. You do the manipulation, the big master is great, the big master tells you to stop, you continue for a few seconds and that’s where you… I don’t hear the boss telling me to stop. It’s the same, I’m in a bubble. I went into my bubble, I was in my thing. And I don’t hear it and I take it. I see it in my head, I take something. It was a huge deal. I wanted to come back to when I arrived, you replaced a lot of Kwan Janim. Every Saturday morning when he was on stage, I remember you were the one who was directing, you did a lot of replacements and you were also a partner of Kwan Janim during the demos at a certain time. It’s the same. As I said earlier, when I started the little back, I started for myself. I never imagined going to a class, actually. Giving a class, I never thought about my life. So people, when they see me, say that I’m scary or I’m impressive. Well, I’m super shy. I’m super shy. But when I say that, people laugh or laugh at me because they don’t believe me. In fact, I’m really extremely shy. But I think that’s the job I was doing at the time where I was… I was a representative and Laptido allowed me to open up, to be more comfortable, to have more confidence in myself. And I found myself doing classes. I had my son at the time, Emman, who is now a tennis teacher. He was very good. So I took him, and little by little I stayed in his class. At the time, we only had 4 kids. My son and I. There was Tressie. And two others. And little by little, I found myself being a little bit… assistant. At the beginning, you were holding the racket. Yes, not much. So I was my first Dan. And then… I was my second Dan. And at the time, there was the Liceo club. I don’t know the situation. No, it was already closed. It was a club that was owned by Cyril at the time. I think it was taken over by Mohamed and Alexandre. We didn’t want to close it. It was a nice club, a small room. We talked to the owner of the club, who lived in the Liceux, and he asked me if I wanted to take over the club. I said yes, but you know how to do it, you know how to make the ados. I said, OK. So I found myself giving classes for the first time in my life. It was also a challenge because you had to overcome your fear a little because it’s not easy to give a class in front of people. It’s like everything. It’s like when I train, I go beyond. I overcome my timidity, I have my voice that carries, my tone that is directive. And so I found myself doing classes at Licieux. And at Licieux, there are many people who are also nice. We tell a lot of little things. Who knows, I met Kevin at Licieux. That’s where it all started. And in fact, Kevin was immediately, I saw Kevin was bitten. Bitten by the little one. He was blocked. And he loved … service partner and in fact. He was there at all the classes. And I did, I think, for two years, I think, at Lycee with something like that. At that time, there was Kevin, a guy called Xavier. There were also our two retired guys, Guy and Philippe, who are still there. They are still there. At over 70 years old or whatever. And in fact, I took this assurance to give classes at Lycee. I learned to be a teacher at Lycee. I also did my training in Saint -Nidier. I did Lycee and then Saint -Nidier with Kevin. Kevin was my student. I had the black belt with him and Xavier. These were the first two black belts I presented. I think that unfortunately the day they passed I wasn’t there. Unfortunately I didn’t have the chance to attend their passing of the grade. But Kevin, he was my student when I was a beginner and when I see the path he has, it’s just incredible. It’s just incredible because at that time he was 14, 15 years old. I remember he was with us once in Anakhen, in Belgium. I think he was wearing a yellow belt. There are yellow ones, there are photos, I wouldn’t put them. And when I see his parkour, it’s just amazing. Incredible, but as you say, he’s not the same. He defies the laws of nature. Clearly. And yes, it’s also a pride to have had it and to see it today. After of course, once we got there, we did a mini -sio. But again, I’m… I’m not the one who says Kevin. Kevin is someone who gave his all. If you don’t give your all, you can’t make it. It’s not a game. Yes, you have a teacher who gives you, who shows you techniques. But Raphael shows us techniques several times. It depends more on the student than on you. The teacher is there because he will give you details. He was going to look at you and say, I’m going to show him this detail, but it’s up to you to do the trick. And once again, Kevin, it’s just amazing to see him. So I found myself being a teacher. And once we closed the initials, we found ourselves in the stage of Didier. And very quickly Raphaël said to me, he actually offered to replace me. And there it was something else because at Liceo it was the countryside. Less students. Less students, a little more restricted. And Saint -Denis was totally different. Really. Because there were all the others, there was Bruno, there was everyone. You also have your training partners. Yes, training partners. You take another dimension. And you understand that your teacher trusts you. So you shouldn’t disappoint. For me, it was an honor. It was really an honor. It’s the same, we went through a different chapter. It also forced me to say, you have to feel better. Because I didn’t think I was good enough. I didn’t think I was good enough. I said to myself, no, wait. Some people were super soft, super high, etc. And you say to yourself, I’m a teacher now, of course. It pushed you to train even more, with more intensity. Even more. And then little by little, Raphaël, who said to me, when you leave your place, as you said, I did… I traveled a lot with him. I calculated that I would have to travel more than 30 days a year with him. It’s huge. It was huge. And there’s nothing I can tell you. But yeah, we traveled to Porto, Madrid, Barcelona, Hungary. The more I traveled with him, the more we exchanged. And the more I discover the little back, the more I trust it. You arrive in places where the guys have 3, 4, 5 bars, you’re there, you say, well, it’s degraded here. And then you realize that, yeah, 4, 5 bars, there’s nothing. And you trust it because you say, yeah, you’re able to hold on. I saw a lot of them, very sincerely. I was jumping on the warm -up. But really. At that age, there were a lot of them. Yes, a lot, a lot, a lot. But then, yes, either you tell yourself, I don’t have the level and I’m going to boost myself. Or you close your eyes and say, I didn’t see anything. You go your way. I go my way. But then everyone chooses. But then you say, I had this chance. And again, I had never really had a partner with Raphaël because of us. And the first time it was in Corsica. This episode you told us about. This is the video. And it’s the same, it’s another dimension. Because there are very good shooters in our country. But when you train, there must be a kind of symbiosis between them. Yes, the interaction between the two must be good. It must be good. Because it’s not even a matter of size. I was talking about Ruben, and we don’t have the same size at all. I’m 20 kilos bigger than him. But if Alshimi is there, and really Alshimi, because with Raphael, once we were in Morocco, where we were doing a demo, and I was doing a shiwi anyway. So you see, Alshimi is there sometimes, but if you weren’t in it, the injury would have happened quickly. And in Morocco, the shiwi, Raphael, he remembers, I remember you heard my shiwi when it cracked, and my shiwi really cracked. And we finished the demo, because you close your teeth, you finish the demo and I get up and I think to myself, I would eat my ankle there, then I look at it and it swells on its own. And you have to say that there is, it does not cheat, it does not play, there is the technique in line with it. If you do not follow… And beyond that, it is an honor to be a partner with his master, it is also very informative to be in his hands for a demo. In fact, the best time I learned the technique is not when you show it to me. It’s when you’ve undergone it. That’s why I ask you this question. I think it’s really a time when you can learn a lot. When you underwent the technique, you understand the pain. For me, it was like that. I underwent it and then I was able to transcribe it. Because you know the intensity of the pain, you see how it is produced. And when you do the technique again, you will feel the things, you will see the angle, and you will feel the pain because you know it, you have it in your head, and you will be able to reproduce it. I never learned as much as by being Raphael’s partner. But really, really, really, really. I don’t know if it’s the case, but I don’t want to hurt people. I’ve always worked like that. And sincerely, to go into the hands of the boss, well, in Raphaël’s hands, to go into the hands of the boss too, you’ll understand what it’s like to hurt people. But really, because I used to see him and I didn’t understand him. But no, it’s not funny. In the videos you often heard, partner smile, no smile. But if he does the technique, you won’t laugh. There is no smile. And if there is a smile, it’s nervous. It’s just that you’re trying not to cry. We like it too. You laugh because otherwise you cry. But I don’t know how to approach this. It’s a question of time. How to train well. How to put everything into practice to train well. When you start with a white belt, what do you do? I wanted to start with the fact that I discovered not long ago, I was watching my Eves, I was giving the class. And I said to myself, I finish the Jackie Chaggy, and then we jump over for 10 seconds. Until the count of 10. And I see that he stops at 2. I gave him a tip that he doesn’t do. Maybe he’s in good shape, he doesn’t need it. But I told myself, all those who became strong at home, are the people who listened to me the most. And if you don’t listen to your teacher, if from the moment you trust your teacher, do everything he tells you, whether it’s a joke, maybe it’s something that has nothing to do with it, but you’re also putting a link with the teacher, because I give him less. to someone who isn’t listening to me completely. And maybe he’s more interested, I’m going to give him more, I’m going to give him a little more detail because he worked hard, I’m going to go without being a guru, you see, but something is going to happen between us, and I’m going to… You see, in fact, he does everything he needs, it’s to do everything he needs in his place to be able to be like me, not to be like me, but… to go towards what I am. What people should understand when they start is that our courses are very well structured. Warming up is not a trivial warm -up. Raphaël has always explained to me that training is extremely well done and has a very precise goal. If we start with an order, there is logic. Of course. Techniques, there is a logic. I’m not here to criticize other weapons, but we can’t start techniques on defense against knives, for example, which is already extremely complicated, while we are not able to get out of a grip, for example. And in fact, in our programs, there is this logic. And when you understand this logic, you say, but yeah, but it’s normal. So when you have a program, you have to follow it. You have to follow this logic. And this logic will bring you something. You can’t start wanting to kick your head, when you don’t even understand how to arm a kick. And as you say, if at some point you ask to continue to swing, there is a reason. You take your breath, and you are managing a rhythm. If you break the rhythm that we give you, you’re not in the… you’re going to miss things. It’s like the kick if we do it by 5, we do it by 5. And the day you start to do kicks by 3, and we all recognize it, when we’re on a course where the kicks are by 3, we know it’s okay, we manage 3. It’s 5, it’s not the same. Because in your head, you already think, but after the doubles we’re going to do them by 5. It’s actually 10 kicks. But it’s stupid, it’s stuff like that. And I think that when someone like that, when we start, actually, if I go back to what I said earlier, if you set limits, your own limits, well, in fact, you will always remain in your comfort zone. If you want to progress, you have to get out of your comfort zone. So if you did the check and check and then, indeed, We have to keep on doing it. You say, it’s good, it’s useless because it’s easier. But no, but who tells you it’s easier? Keep on doing it. Because if I ask you to do it for a minute, you’ll see it won’t be the same. So at some point, if we want to progress, we have to do everything we’re asked to do. We have to go beyond. And you said something that was interesting earlier. It’s that indeed, or you said it, I don’t know anymore, but in the sense that the teacher… he will see that you bring something, he will see that you try. In fact, that’s what’s interesting because if I see that you make efforts, I will help you to move forward. But if you don’t give me anything, in fact, you don’t show me that you want to. That’s what I was saying earlier, it’s first the student who decides to progress well and in response the teacher will maybe give him a little more. I have plenty of examples. We were talking about it earlier at the meal, where we were saying that we can be sitting in the class, coming back to everyone, but there are different paths. I started with a group of four, Dedica, Samsa, Sabra, Thierry. Well, we didn’t evolve in the same way at all. We trained as much, but it didn’t do the same thing. First, I didn’t stop. And then, as I said to Kwan -Jani earlier, when the class was over, I stayed, I sat down against the wall and there was Kwan -Jani and Kevin who were hitting the judo. And I, for 20 -30 minutes, I stayed like that, I was alone in the room, everyone was gone. And I was looking, I was looking, I was looking. And one day they told me, here, can you hold the rackets? I arrived, I held the rackets, I couldn’t, but I saw the two kickers, and I was holding the targets. He tells me, one day, you want to kick? And I started kicking, I started kicking. I had the same training as all the others. But I gave more. That’s one example. I have a lot of what made the difference between me and others, and as we all knew. But it’s an example of, well, I’m a little more interested, I give a little more. As soon as there was something, I think of your sentence about limits, one of the first things I learned in Kwan -Jian Lim’s book, the biography, he says himself, what I learned from the great master first, is not to set limits. This sentence, me who was very hurt, it was my leitmotiv from the very beginning. And in fact I understood it very quickly. For example, first year, a month after my debut, I had bought the book. I had bought everything because it interested me a lot. I was passionate, I wanted to know everything, to store everything. And people went to a restaurant, I didn’t want to miss it because maybe there was going to be information, I was going to take a little thing there, I was going… So I was everywhere, I was going everywhere. There was an internship. I come. And so, I think that during the first 5 years, I didn’t miss anything. When Jannu was somewhere, I was there. He showed something in the room, I was watching, I was following everything. You had an implication that went beyond the carpet. Yes. When I left with much less than the others, I went over it because I put more time, I put more desire in it. All day I was thinking about that. And then the teacher will feel it. Exactly. I think that… I didn’t have the habit of doing martial arts. I’m not flexible. I’m not a shooter. But I think that’s maybe what Raphael saw. Because he saw my will, my desire to surpass myself. And somehow… If you manage to finish your level… When you train, I think that if I find myself today, where I am, giving lessons, taking part in international training, having served as a partner to Raphaël, etc. It’s because I think that Raphaël, from the beginning… I’m not talking about the beginning, but he felt that I had this will to go. And when your teacher feels that, he wants to accompany you. If you want to go to your teacher, if you go to your teacher, your teacher will feel that. So when you come back, he will give you. If you train well, if you have the right behavior, because there are also geniuses who do not behave the way we expect. So you won’t have anything. I would have always told my students. I can make you go very high, but I can also leave you there. You train, but I’m not going to give you my shot. The boss told me, I won’t give his name, I don’t want to throw you away, but we had one that was very good. But in terms of attitude, it wasn’t that. And you can’t go far. No, but the boss, the boss, clearly, Jean told me. My big brother told me, yeah, he’s good, he told me, but… He said it. In his interview about the Grand Master, he said that he had the spirit, the heart and the technique. We were in Licieux, it’s a flashback. We were in Licieux, because at the time Raphael lived there. When Grand Master came, he had a room downstairs, in the Licieux castle. One evening after training, it was Raymond Party. When you go to the gym, you go to the big guy and he makes ramyeon. It’s just that. It’s extraordinary. I don’t know if you know a big guy who gives you a lesson and then you live at his place and he makes you a bowl of ramyeon. It’s just crazy. And then we eat and then we sit down, a bit like Oblede. When you do Oblede, you sit on the floor, really on the floor. And we exchange and everything. And that spirit of sharing, of showing, etc. And the boss said to me, OK, Technique Good might know good. Clearly for him. And it doesn’t even interest him. We don’t care to be strong technically if you don’t have the right spirit. If you don’t have the right spirit, you can’t stay in the GK if you don’t have the spirit. And that night, boss, I said to myself, but still… He came to give us a lesson, he disassembled us and then he made us ramen. And in fact, he said a sentence in English, basically he said, OK, Master, Master, I’m a master, I’m a master, I’m the master. He said to me outside, he said to me, you and me, we are like that. He said, if I eat, you eat too. And you understand that there is this spirit of respect for the other, and not to play, not to cheat, not to be pretentious, not to say, I’m better than the others. No, it’s really the state of mind. A great master who is 9th Dan, who tells you, OK, on the mat, OK, I’m a great master etc. But when I eat, if I eat a bowl of noodles, you eat a bowl of noodles too. These values are found in the principles of the water -taking, which are applied there. It’s true, it’s the sport, it’s not cheating. It’s the ability to share and respect the other. And that, it went up to… It was at Lissieux. I don’t think I was even in the second dan. I don’t know if I was first. I wasn’t even in the second dan. I imagine. And these human values, these human values, they are important, I really have to highlight them because they are not there for… well, it doesn’t play, there is no comedy. During the two or three years when the boss didn’t come… Because of Covid? Because of Covid, yes. When he came back, even when I talk about it, it’s really touching. You have to say it because it’s really to show what he is, the person he is. When he came back, after these three years, he arrived at L ‘Isieux, I wanted to see him the next day between noon and two. I left work, I immediately traced to L ‘Isieux. Raphaël couldn’t join me, I think. And I arrive, he’s with his wife, the boss. I knock, I open the door. I go home, I leave my shoes on, and then he tells me, with Covid, I thought I was going to die and never see you again. And in fact, that sentence, it went through my toes, my toes went up like that, and I felt it up to my hair, in fact. And yet, it’s been a few years since I’ve known him. I shared moments with him in Korea, he still touched you. He really touches you. It really touches you. It’s touching. I said that to my wife, she was amazed. I said it to my mother. When I told her, she said, you give me chills. How can someone who is not from your culture, who is your father’s age, who lives 10 ,000 km from here… If you manage to do that, it’s not any different. It makes you want to go even more. It made me want to do this again, for this last year’s race. You can only give. You can only give. It’s all you live for. With your life, with your values, it helps you for the next race. It helps you to progress. Of course, but it’s true. There’s no limit. As Raphaël said, there’s no limit. You read everything you live outside, plus the intensity you put in the training. That’s what makes you improve. You can do stretching sessions at home, you can do a lot of things. To be better, of course, no problem. You work on your mobility, etc. But that’s it. That also brings you, and I think it brings you even more. It brings you even more because if you have this machine that works and that blocks, the other machine that is mechanical, yes, you can be limited by something, but then he said, when I see what Michael is doing, as you say, I may not be able to guess what he is doing, etc., but when I see what he is doing, it is the proof that at some point … There is a force that pushes you, there is something that manages to make you go further than what you are able to do. I remember when you said you were already there, I remember. I remember indeed, at Saint Didier, Saint George, I remember in Korea. And you said yes, at the parkour. But I even remember you. In 2012, 2013, you were in the blue belt, I think. I had passed the black belt in 2013. You were in 2013 and you had taken Olivier’s relief, right ? And it’s the same. You say to yourself, yeah, there’s a way. It’s an evidence. But there’s nothing without nothing. It’s investment. So what do we say to white belts who want to train? What’s your advice? Not to set limits. What we said earlier is that… Don’t think that I’ll be like Michael, like Dmitri or like Miloud. Not too fast. It can be a guide a little far. But that’s not the goal. Go over there. That’s not the goal. I never said I would be a teacher, never in my life. I never said I was going to be a teacher, I never said I was going to go to Korea, I never said I was going to do a demo. with Rafael in Korea in a stadium. For the championship. For the championship. But it’s crazy. With planes flying by. With fighter planes passing by. Wesley Schneidt who was part of the VIP. That’s crazy. I never had any idea. When I think about it at home, they are amazing. My young ones are amazing. Really. We are in a stadium with political personalities, stars, and stuff. No carpet, it was on wood. I fell on wood. In a corner of the air. In a corner, we had to go with Raphael, it wasn’t even us who had to do it. In the last minute we knew it was you two. Okay. Let’s go. So, don’t set limits. Don’t set limits, actually. Tell yourself, okay, I like it. And if you like it, go ahead, go ahead, don’t give up. Don’t let go. The doors will open. But if you fix things or say things, you’ll be stuck. You won’t make it. The path will be done on its own. The path will be done on its own. I want to go back to the anecdote because it’s completely about that. The first time you approached me was in 2010 when you came to the Geneva demonstration at the Martial Arts Salon. I watched the demo, I was very impressed, it was my first time. And then we went to the backstage to say bravo, to chat a little with you. There was already a lot of people, everyone together. And then I said to myself, it must be great to do an incredible demonstration, for me it was just unthinkable. I said to myself, one day you can be on the stage like we just did, keep working and maybe be part of the demo team. I thought it was not an objective, but it made me want to do it. It didn’t give me limits, on the contrary. It encouraged me. I wasn’t your student, but it made me want to do it. I thought it was possible. We managed to do it. It was the first time I talked to you. You probably were. You, for example, in your club, with your experience, what differentiates a guy who is going to become good from a guy who is a little less good? How do you manage to see that? What do the students put in place? I see the interest they have in the martial art. I am very interested in what is around the mat. I see students asking me questions not only about the technique, but about where it comes from, who are the masters, who is the great master of tshangsu, they will be interested beyond a somokoki, it goes further than that. And I feel that they will necessarily, behind that, get more involved in the training, they will come more to training, they will maybe stay longer after training to do a dora or to watch and so they will necessarily progress. After there will be maybe … different paths compared to physical limits or different physical capacities. But they will progress more. It depends on everyone’s needs and expectations. Some may come for social reasons, some may come for… who have belt goals, I don’t know, everyone has their own expectations. But these people, I think, are the ones who will… progress faster. Now there’s the story of intensity, even her, even if she’s interested in everything that can be back and in the abkido in general. If you don’t put in the right intensity during training, it will take longer and it will be more difficult. I think that everyone will put in the intensity they want to put in. And then, when you start like that, the problem is that we don’t know each other. We don’t know each other, we don’t know each other very well, we don’t know each other at the limit. It all depends on age. But you have to know that training is very hard, no matter what club you are in, because that’s what makes us strong. And if you train hard four times a week, I remember I had pain at one point. So you have to know what you can do to keep up with this rhythm. And then, at some point, what we said earlier, you have to give, because to see how you’re involved, etc. the teacher will notice that you are at the end of the course, as I said earlier, you are interested, etc. But what we should not forget as teachers, and this is very difficult, is that… Sometimes the other students, we are the teacher, but we are not only the teacher. Because we are also the person to whom the student will hang on. Because you don’t know the course of our students. You don’t know, maybe in his family he has a problem. and he will eventually attach himself to his teacher. I felt that in 2010. I don’t know if we can talk about it here, because it’s a rather sad, difficult subject, very difficult for many people. Well, if not without saying the names, but you can say what… We lost someone in 2010. I don’t like it too much. I’m extremely sensitive. But it’s important because it’s part of martial arts. Martial arts are not only hard, there’s sensitivity in martial arts too. There are a lot of humans, especially. We lost this person in 2010. When we buried this person, there were many sources that had been made. And without going into the details of the speech, because it’s very personal, but this speech actually marked my life. I got out of this funeral and I realized that we were actually much more than teachers. And that year, in 2010, I was leaving for Lamec with my parents and I left with that in my head. And I realized that this year, in 2010, We weren’t just teachers, we brought a lot more than that. And when you’re a teacher, you have this responsibility, and you will have students where you know that it will be involved, you know that you bring something, and that’s a big responsibility that we have as teachers. And the students, it’s the same, they have to understand that when this relationship is put in place, this link that is created, you have the one who comes because, as you say, it’s distraction. but he will stay for a year, two or three years, he will even shine, etc. But then you won’t see him. And then there is the other one. And there, when you are a teacher, you will feel that you are a teacher more than ever. There is really a link that is created. And as a teacher, you have to be able to accompany him and guide him and give him things. And being a teacher is also this. It is this humanism that has this relationship that is created with your student. And of course you will give him more, you will accompany him, you will be there for him in all the easy, difficult moments. That’s something that really struck me. A teacher is not just… I’m not quite like he says, master, the teachers are there, we see them, they don’t sweat. No, Raphaël… I saw him sweat, but more than me. That’s also it, you see the confidence you have in your teacher because you also know that everything he asks you, he did it. He did it. In the long run, don’t worry. When you are asked so much Hanja, we did it. There is no risk. No, there is no problem. If we tell you something, do it for a long time, do it. If you want to become. Well, if you want to follow the path we took, because others showed it to us, you have to do it. I cut it with my anecdote, but I share it, I arrived at that moment and I saw a little bit of all that, and I saw to what extent, I can’t tell you that either, but it makes me think of when you say something, when you are advised to do it, after you have, we give you training, you do a little bit of what you want. You can see at the end of a series of kicks, some of them sweat, some of them don’t. The one who sweats will become better, there is no doubt. Even if the other has some ease, he didn’t give himself. He didn’t send. I have an anecdote, I remember one of my best students, Axel, that I have since I was very young, who transformed my club because by being super strong and especially very attentive, very attentive to listening. I told him something, he corrected in the second. He was really one of the little ones. He was 8 years old and I know he changed the course of my club. And one day he said he was injured, he didn’t kick the ball but he was already there. I gave him the Danbong, he didn’t know, he had blue belt maybe, he didn’t know, I gave him the Danbong, I showed him the first movement of the kybons, the first movement. I said, take it, put it in front of the ice. for 30 minutes, he hit like this. He did, he did, he did, he did. He didn’t come back to see me, what am I doing now? No. He did, and a child, even the adults don’t do that. And in fact, I knew clearly that it was going to be one of my best. And the same, always there, always listening. But it’s exactly… It’s a bond and a confidence he has towards you. towards the teacher who… So you must not trust your teacher 100 % You must still… He must be good. You can’t arrive in a class, ok I do everything you tell me if you never saw it, you don’t know that he is good, you must not either. But from the moment you trust me I remember an internship in Barcelona, there is someone who comes to see me and says to me, how do you have so much trust in you? I said to myself, I don’t trust myself. I trust the teaching I received. Everything that Kwan -Jani taught me, I trust. I saw him do it. I trained as he asked me to train. I did everything he asked me to do. He said to go fast, I did that. I added some kicks there, I followed him at his own pace. I did everything I needed. I mean, as much as possible. I don’t trust myself. But what I learned, I’m sure of it. But it allowed you to have confidence in yourself. Behind, yes. But it happened through the use of techniques and through his use, actually. And he was almost trusting me before I trusted him. But if we take the example, if we go back to the story of Raphaël, if we can do a little bit of telling it without going into details… We’ll invite him soon. We’ll invite him soon. Don’t worry. It’s the same when we talk about your student who showed you, etc. He showed that he wanted it. But when you see Raphaël’s journey, he said in a few videos, he took his chance to go to Korea. I think that when the boss saw him, he said to himself, he saw his abilities, but he said to himself, he wants it. And that’s why this very strong link… and grew over the years. But he showed his will, no limit. Being the first French to be part of the national team abroad is just crazy. He showed his confidence, and he gained his trust in the boss. That’s what a student should show at some point. If you don’t show the confidence you have, then yeah, trust, because if, as a teacher, you won’t have to send yourself to the gas station for the pleasure of being called up or not, the goal is to make you evolve. And Raphaël is a flagrant concrete example of someone who showed his desire and… And who didn’t just… He said it in his interview with the Grand Maître. He said he didn’t know if he would see him again. Just the fact that he came with me, just on a piece of paper, the name of the Grand Maître, just that, I’m going to give him all my video. But it’s like, if you think about it, you see another memory that comes back to me. My first dan in Korea, I went through it, and I was super happy. I went through my first dan. I had to put on my belt, and so on, and take photos, and hold my hand. But the next morning, I had training. It wasn’t over. And then the next morning, training, actually, I was happy to put on my black belt. And the next morning, I had the worst training in my life. The boss stayed, the whole series of cutters in front of me. I took the whole series of cutters with the boss in front of me and the rackets in front of me. And I thought, shit, why? Why? It’s a gift. And in fact, I asked Rafael later, he told me, it was to see if your goal was just to come and take the black belt, or if you were really going to keep giving up. I said, you see, it’s not funny at all. And I didn’t give up, and I was happy not to have given up, because in fact, you see, we’re back to this story of trust that we talked about earlier, well, show that you want to. If you want to improve, show him. He’ll be there for you. He’ll be there for you. Until now, when we were in Saint -Gildier, three old men, in a place in Doua, I don’t know if you can see it. He comes, we are four, and he shows us details that others don’t. So, in summary, if you want to progress, give and vote teacher. will make you twice as big. And he’s waiting for that. Be sure that… There’s something I would have liked to say when I was a white belt. Because I have questions now about students. It’s off the top, but also about life hygiene. To tell me to take care of his body, take care of his sleep, his nutrition, etc. A minimum. And I didn’t necessarily have that notion at all. And now I also feel that there are certain needs of certain students at this level. and that ask questions. Beyond the fact that I work in it, beyond that, by saying what else can I do to try to improve myself? Outside of the carpet. Maybe also injury management, that kind of thing. I think that’s also important questions. And a role that we can also play, which is not always easy. In the next training, there will be things that look like that, very likely. It’s good because it’s true that it’s a clock, everyone has his side. And everyone has a different approach to their weaknesses. I think it’s an interesting subject. But it reminds me of something else. Earlier you said, you said it well, when you were injured or you couldn’t do it. I remember when I had my fracture. And I couldn’t train. I was reviewing my techniques in my head. I think I did that a lot. There are many who come and write, I never noted anything, but I may have done the techniques in my head more than in real life. I never wrote anything. But I don’t know when, they told me, you… I said no, I didn’t write anything. I said it’s not possible. I said no, I never wrote anything. I never wrote anything, I don’t have a program. And when I couldn’t work… But I remember that time, when I was sleeping, I closed my eyes and I did my technique. I saw it. So there’s always a way to work. Speaking of that, one of your first memories, I started, we finished the class, you’re on the side, there’s Kwan Janim, there’s you, I’m there, and there’s a guy who just, I don’t remember who, who just asked you, how do you remember all this? All this order and everything? And you? But it’s very logical. As soon as you said logical, it reminded me of that. If you do the structure right, the same keys come back, the same key path each time. It’s the same structure. There are many who remain. A dedication to some of my students who have been on the blue belt for 6 years. It’s simple. It’s very logical. The program is very logical. I travelled a lot with Raphaël and met a lot of people. They learn in a kind of mix of things, total chaos. Last year I talked to someone from another school, and we were talking about Abykido, because we were trying to see how we could structure a federal Abykido. And the person told me, I started there, I prayed and so on. I took techniques there, I took techniques there. It bothers me a bit because schools are not the same approach, the same angles of work, the same direction, etc. And then one day he says to me, I took techniques in martial arts. And I say, Your apkido wasn’t complete. It’s not a criticism, because maybe the person, unfortunately, we have the chance. Not the choice. Maybe not the choice. I can understand that. But if you start adding things, while you have a base, your tree will start to go in all directions. You have to stay, you have to take this base, it is very logical, it is very well done. Once again, the program is very well done. You will never do technique on punches, starting with a little water, because already a punch… You have to see it, you have to block it, it’s not easy. But all this logic we have in our programs is very well done. And when you understand this logic, you can remember 250 techniques. It’s very simple. And then you can do it. For novices, it’s important to follow this logic, to take time from the basics. Sometimes we have questions like, can you show us some techniques afterwards? First, we stay on the basics, there’s patience, repetition, agility, all those elements. The first program, I’ve always said that this one, and that’s how we learned it, is extremely important. It’s the basis, the foundation of everything else. Yes, it evolves, but it’s a huge foundation. It’s the trunk of art. It’s the trunk of all techniques. When you have this foundation, even the first outings we learn, the other day when we were there, there was the young man who had just arrived, I’ll explain, you have to feel the outing when you do it. Because when you just understand the outings, the angle, the step you make, the angle, and your way of doing the technique, I think you understood a lot of things. But really. And that, unfortunately, yes, at first it’s difficult because when you start, you arrive in a universe where you may have never practiced martial arts, etc. So we try to reproduce, we try to imitate, a recitation. I’ve seen people… It can go through there. Yes, it can go through there. But I try to tell them right away, at least, to really understand right now. Because if you can imprint that in the matrix, from the beginning… can go much faster. So listen to the teachers, the details that we give you. Because before, Raphaël used to tell us often that when he learned, the boss would show him and go ahead. That was it. He makes one of the words and bye. So now you have the chance of teachers who follow training 4 regularly, who still have at some level, who have a lot of details, who give them to you from the beginning. So listen. If you are told that you have to move your right leg, you have to be perpendicular, do it. Try to understand why. It’s not a matter of strength, it’s a matter of technique. Tapkido is very, very technical. It requires repetition, patience. I sometimes see some who are impatient, they say, it’s good, I did this one, I can see the rest. Well, no, you have to come back. Repetition is an important word. The boss used to tell me that at the time… He said to me, you’re going to be good at footwork, but some people are good at it, especially the footwork, some people are good, they’re going to have a favorite footwork. We can see it now, we all have our favorite footwork. He told me, this footwork, when you chose it, he told me, you have to repeat it a thousand times. I said, no, you tell me to repeat a thousand times. He told me, because when you repeat it a thousand times, it will be an instant. It will be your footwork that will come out. It will come out on its own, because in fact… I impregnated him. It’s like techniques. Sometimes it’s important with Bruno Damien when we work. We get the same techniques. We get the technique because it’s the technique we feel the best. It’s our favorite technique. We have a technique we will never understand because there are only aliens coming. But you always have a technique that will happen, even if you repeated it. The one that we don’t understand is good too because it stimulates us. It stimulates us. It’s normal. It’s normal to zero. You tell yourself, I have to control myself. But… But nobody is good at… You see, we have the facilities, the skills. Even Raphaël, he’s very good. But I mean, he didn’t know him by the little finger. That’s what I mean. He can have the skills of kickboxing, everything we want. Fighting, etc. But… He started from scratch. He started from scratch. Anyway, he worked like crazy. That’s it. The only way to be… from beginner to what he is, a hard work, there is nothing else. The great master very often says, you think that the techniques came from the sky and I got them? No. I did them a lot. I did them a lot of times. There is no secret. No secret of the number of times. No idea. He says he is a thousand, he says, normal kicks, we work them by a hundred, your best kick is a thousand. There must be a difference. You do them all to do them well, but your best, you have to work it much more. I think that in the dollar chain, to do this job, it’s more than 1000. It’s impossible. When Janif tells the anecdotes of his first trip, or the great master hit, we will let him tell, but it’s… No, but there is no mystery. I thought of a sentence, my son told me, he said to me, yes, but… Speaking of my sister, he said to me, but Tata is smart. I said, well… Yes, she’s smart. But… It’s not enough. It’s not enough. She sleeps 3 hours a night because the rest of the time she works. That’s why she ended up at this level. She sleeps 3 hours a night. So no one comes, no matter what sport. There is no shortcut. No shortcut. You take the tennis players, we talked about tennis last time, but you can’t get to the level of excellence. You can’t get to the level of excellence because you trained 2 hours, 3 times a week, 2 hours of Kido. No. Work and say to yourself, whatever happens, I will have periods where I will be at the bottom of the well, I’m at the bottom, ok, okay. What can I do? What we were saying earlier? I can go to training, I can watch. I can go to say hello to my teacher, even if I’m injured. You watch videos, there are a lot of videos, watch videos. Keep the motivation. A teacher can even do the master class. You can work, it’s a support. Of course, it won’t replace a class, but you can’t go to class. It’s like during Covid. During Covid, we didn’t have classes. What do we do? We do nothing? No. I don’t know, but it’s the same, I was at your place, we all went to buy tapis on Amazon, something at our place. We made videos online, but it allowed us to keep a link, to be there. No barriers, no limits. No limits, no limits. We’re going to stop there. I’m very frustrated because I would have liked to go into a lot of things, but it’s too short. 2 hours, we’ll see what’s left. We’ll see if we cut in 2, if we do more songs, I don’t know. We’ll see, one last word each. Jim, you’re going to Brazil soon? I’m going to Brazil. I don’t know when it’s coming out. A lot of impatience, as we said. It’s a new place where we’re going to practice. I’m really happy. I’m sure I’m going to learn a lot of things. Meeting, I really like meeting. I’m sure I’m going to meet a lot of people there too, great. I’m happy. I’ll touch on that as soon as I come back. Great. Yes, I would have liked to have been in Brazil too. Because in Brazil, as we said in the new Paris for the first episode, I don’t remember. Yes, we said we were going to watch it. But indeed, it’s been years since they’ve been there. Eduardo, Jacondino, I had the chance to be his partner for his first Dan’s rap passage that he had done in Florieu. In Florieu. In Florieu. I would have liked to have been there, so it was a great chance to be able to go there. The last word for me is that there are many things I didn’t tell you. I still have a lot of things in my memory. I have a lot of them. Frankly, I was lucky enough to get into this martial art that opened up a lot of things for me, that allowed me to travel, to discover other cultures, especially Korean culture. So I still want to go to Korea. I hope to go to the month of April. We’ll go to the 3rd. I hope we’ll meet there. We’ll maybe be the second part of this show. But the only word is, have fun, train, don’t set limits. Don’t set limits. I’ll go edit a lot of videos of Abkido. I’m tired. As I said, frustrated because I want to go further, Milo has 20 years to tell. There are a lot of things, we will take up the themes, we will see what we will do. We will go eat. It shows that… We have too much to say. There are a lot of things that come out that are incredible and we talked about it a lot today, give in life. And I think it gives in life. And as we said, if you want to become good, you must not give up. That’s what we all did, no matter where we went, we just didn’t give up. The desire… you said the desire, yeah. The desire to go on. I always want to go on. Perfect. We’re cutting here. Thank you very much. Thank you.