Stay On Your Bike Episode 5 Part Two Alan Woods

Welcome to Part Two of Episode 5 of the Stay On Your Bike Podcast where we are joined again by Alan Woods and we delve back into the world of BMX.

Tune in for an insightful conversation packed with nostalgia, deep love for BMX and new information on the return of Torker.

hello everyone and welcome back to sty bite podcast for part two of the Alan Woods episode if you haven’t listened to part one please go and do that Alan had lots of interesting stuff to say and for part two we’ve been given a load of liquid death to keep us hydrated because we could be here for a while so thanks very much for listening and I hope you enjoy cheers obviously um growing up and you know I started racing at Three Sisters in beginning of 83 uh end of 82 beginning of 83 and I I I had my Robinson that we bought from you um you had uh some incredible Riders um on on your Robinson Factory team and the rob you used to have a Robinson support team as well didn’t you yeah um and then obviously on the the the talker team so some of the Riders I can remember um is you know the ones that you’ve you’ve mentioned early on you know yourself Craig Burrows um I I remember um guys a year older than me there was Matt Doran um was was he was on Robinson and then did he go on to talker as well well you know we made a frame forat did you what with which brand well it’s the only ever Mirage frame that we did I forgot the number plate that nigers got in the background there we did number plates and we did a few break guard and a few other pieces but we were going to make frames so Birmingham Wheels yeah Chris from B who L me the fiver to get home yeah the Austin Maxi TR made is a prototype frame in Birmingham yeah and so did he make the Birmingham Wheels race frames as well Yeah okay or or he subcontracted them out I’m not sure if they actually built them on site yeah but they were Reynolds Tuan and braced rather than TIG wed okay yeah so we made one um we made one frame and it was for Matt Doran wow uh and I guess Matt raced it in 84 so we gave Chris all the yeah no it’s little known so I think Matt was on maybe talker support and then we put him on this Mirage frame which we got back and it had a European B it was like an expert what you call today so European bottom bracket and it had um had a road headset fitment because we could buy use a um Shimano Dura Ace still Mak him I think Shimano Dura Ace threaded with with the cup size is different to BMX size isn’t it do you know what I mean smaller diameter uh and yeah that was Matt’s frame and in fact the guy we sold the frame I sold the frame like 10 years ago or something and the guys built it like into a mirage bike and if you go to YouTube and on our YouTube Al’s YouTube channel from a year ago we did an event at uh South Sea skate park yeah with our friends from we were rad yeah and there’s bike Concourse there and the bike is in The Concourse and I actually speak to the dude who’s made the bike no way think did I I think it’s in that one anyway if it’s not you can put it in the comments um but yeah so he he had like a mirage pad set made up for it like with the red and the green wow and he’s got the break guard on the and obviously he’s got the number plate and uh like mini Amy grips uni seat and it’s really trick so yeah Matt who was from Ashton in makerfield he was from as um yeah I think he was on TKA and then we had him ride the Mirage thing I don’t know what Jersey we had I don’t think we had I don’t think we had I don’t think we have Mirage Jers few years ago when we redid some Mirage Parts I did have some Jersey designs made up or I did some Mirage Jersey designs but I don’t think we had them uh back then yeah so one of one we only ever made one for him and I don’t know why we didn’t make any I’ve got I’m I forgot why we didn’t make any maybe they were were they too dear I don’t know it made sense for us to do our own BR didn’t it here yeah and Chris was really cool I don’t know can’t tell you why we didn’t make it but we only made one and Matt rode it and it didn’t break and someone still has it it’s still out there brilliant and well talking talking about um Riders m not breaking that frame um obviously you had some other incredible Riders on on your teams you know obviously um back in them them the early days I can remember obviously Tony olland was riding for you was had so much style was incredible on the bike then in would it have been 84 when you sponsored Dylan on the on Robinson yeah I’m not sure I don’t know I can’t really remember what happened with Dylan because he was on Robinson and then he was on like Amo Mongoose yeah well I remember I remember going I was friends with Ian Finch who rode Robinson as well who who lived just across the road from the uh three sisters he remember the name yeah he was a year older than me but he he always wrote Robinson and um I think my dad used to chat to his dad at the races and stuff uh there was also another kid in my age group who was fast uh called Andrew unsworth yeah Robinson and sha Worthington yeah they both rode Robinson’s um but on your factory team you you had uh Tony Holland and then um I remember going to ribi all they used to be races at Rial on a on a Wednesday night the nbm XA um well these were just like club meetings on a Wednesday night I think it was nbm XA rather than UK BMX wasn’t it it was like were you went up the m6 and then turned off for the m55 and it was like the first Junction wasn’t it I think it was at a caravan Park yeah and it had I liked it because it had a massive St hle um so you know it wasn’t I was never very good if the start hle was flat it didn’t have much power um but I I liked it there anyway I remember I think on a Wednesday night they they used to have like your age group and then they’d have a uh um like okay and it another race where you mix with a few age groups it might have been called a trophy Dash or something like that yeah or like an open or whatever 14 and over open or something yeah or under open yeah and they’d also have a riola hill climb because it was the big hill um but I remember I was racing with Ian Finch and and his dad brought this kid along and he had like I can’t remember what the bike was but it was like a cheapo black BMX with big yellow mag wheels on and and it was Dylan and Darren Rey was like the fastest in that age group who ended up riding for T later on um I think at this point he rode a GT or something like that and I was friends with him as well um anyway um remember this kid like nearly beating Rey on this like super heavy crappy BMX and then the next M I think it must have been pre the first national and then the first national that year uh Dylan turned up on the on your team on on like Robinson mini with skinny wheels and the Robinson kit and he obviously you know in incredible you know bite Rider and uh the style he had and he just wiped the floor with everybody I think he did he pretty much win every National all year on your Robinson team yeah I don’t remember I mean obviously I’ve you know remain friends with Dylan over the years and he’s done amazing he’s done amazing stuff did amazing amazing stuff like um you know after the boom of BMX um when he you know he was still really competitive at the highest the very very highest level you know when he was on you know sun and all that you know um but yeah I don’t really you know he wasn’t really on there for very long and then I think he was on like he was on Mong I remember going to a um did a BBC thing I remember taking him uh to Oxford Road where the BBC offices used to be where the banks are outside where we used to skate um you know for for that and I think that must have been maybe that might have been 84 or 85 so he was on Mongoose then so he was only on Mongoose like only on Robinson I think maybe 83 was it 83 I couldn’t remember if well 83 or yeah it must it must have been because the last year that we did Robinson before we switched to talker and I never really finished up telling you that story so we all went like yeah we’re all went on talk we’re all at talker yeah talk talk yeah we’ve had enough Robinson now after doing it all these years and T is the way to go and then then gr and Mary rang me up from M Wheels and said oh have you a talker just went BST so how so how long was talker when you went in all in on talker how long did that last four then well we went we you know I don’t ever think I ever spoke to CH I did see Chuck subsequently and kept in touch with him into the 90s but like yeah we we were just you know I remember building a bike up building a talker frame up for me just to try and Tony Holland’s dad coming around to our house and like going who is that bike and I was like I just one that we were just trying something with you know we weren’t sure what we were going to do at that point and we must have we must have decided we were going to do that in 80 maybe like the back end of the season of 84 and then T went into chapter 7 uh receivership in ins solvency in November 84 so we must have been like yeah we’re all going to be talking and then they went busted and I I remember like I remember speaking to a guy that used to work there in production I forget his name now because Graham said Graham Mary told us and mean Graham Mary is the son of um Russell and Neil who went on to be um uh you know [ __ ] and GT and CSG in in the UK before selling it to the pent company um and he gave me the number of the guy he told me the guy that had told him he’s a guy that used to work for T used to work for Steve and had left and got a job at CW so I rang CW you a sec can I speak to Jeff or whatever the guy’s name was and he was like yeah yeah true they’ve just let everybody go last Friday uh and I rang Roger and he I got a job here in he he was like a welder or you know someone in production um and then I hadn’t heard from Steve we were really close um and then about a week in Steve rang me from California and said listen uh you know I owe you an apology but we couldn’t say anything at the time because we were blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but you know I don’t think they were getting pressure from the banks I know they were spending a lot of money on Tommy and Mike you know the pro salaries um but things were coming round you know they had the freestyle frame they had they had a you know the 2802 TX frame the geometry was dated but when the Pro X frame came out that was and you know you r that you made that thing move in the 90s didn’t you you know I mean um that was a really really good frame and as good as anything that you could buy and obviously it was good enough to be able to win a National on a decade later you know thanks to Mr pige though uh it’s a you know it was it was a great frame so really it didn’t make sense that all this had happened and I think me and me dad just went well listen and then I rang um Bob Osborne from thex Action magazine and said Hey listen you know you know the talker thing just so that you know we’re we have plans for it here at least in Europe um and then it came out that they were having an auction and me and my dad went to California in Feb 85 um you know stay in bulleon went to the auction met Scott Bry out he actually sent me a letter which I still have after the after that uh after the auction uh and there’s a furry story with um Bob madrano as well from Dino um yeah slightly embarrassing I’m probably not going to tell that story uh but yes we went to the auction and we bought all the frames which were mostly Pro X frames and a lot of freestylist frames a lot of freestylist frames didn’t have the for because they had a fault with the fork uh where they steer and met the legs and they used to separate so I think they’d sent a lot of forks out as warranty so we had a lot of frames with forks and we Earth rated those frames and they cost a fortune and we didn’t bid on the name it went a bit we were in the bid in but it went a bit higher than what we thought I think it went for like $3,000 you know the name for talk Max which yeah you know I I know Bill been through quite a lot of wrangling with um with to try to get the you know the talking name back over the last eight years it’s taken in and uh I don’t know how much it’s cost but it was more than $3,000 per it that way um but but we registered the name for the UK and for Europe so nobody else could do it here sell it and um we have the opp opportunity to be able to we weren interested in like running talker in America yeah we were never you know we were never that ambitious uh so we could do it here so and then we carried on and then Tony uh switched to talker yeah after did John Lee so that was all through 85 and then in 86 and obviously by that point um BMX was you know just going downhill so uh it went from being it was boom and bust really for BMX so at that point T was um we know we never really um you know we sold some of the frames but most of those frames we only sold them in the 990s right right literally just to the point where they were low worth a shitload of money yeah like my dad was building up bikes uh from like part just selling them to kids you know freestylist and prox is just as like as an alternative to like a GT and you know he sprayed them up like different colors and that yeah and we different sticker kits made up and we just we were just selling them as like regular regular bikes up until by the time it got to when we did that old school race at Warrington that you came to yeah which was I think it was 2000 or 2001 so it’s 23 or 24 years ago anyway which it seems like about 10 doesn’t it yeah yeah um and just at that point we’ probably sold the last one so I remember still selling them in the box in the original talko box frame and fog prox 150 quid like brand new in the box and you know it’s hard to say whether it be worth now maybe a grand I don’t know but not far off uh and um yeah and they were in the where my dad used to live at Abram at The Bungalow Rich E will know this all The Loft was just full of frames and it wasn’t boarded out and we had no ladders to get up there so you had to kind of like put you open the door put your foot on the door handle and then I was a bit obviously I was more agile then than I am now and then put your foot on the on the top of the door and then push the hatch up and then you had to stand on the beams and the frames were just all piled up there yeah like 150 too frames so my dadd be like we need some more frames like oh no that where M would have come from then yeah no way brilliant so um yeah that’s how that talk and then you know we know now that you know the the two brothers that own tyoga they they bought the name and they ended up selling it to Seattle Bike Supply which became um eventually became like Exel with lapier and rally in later years and they also own redl didn’t he as well and that’s all changed again now hasn’t it because it’s like alter cycling and then I know Bill Ryan you know from Supercross was in negotiations about the um Red Line name and then ended up um getting involved in the talker and then but then obviously SBS changed got bought out by Excel and then it changed again and you know so I mean even Redline and and Diamondback too icon names they’re sort of in the where are they I know Don fips is doing good work with um the red line by cast and stuff I don’t know if you’ve seen that like the frames been you know the freestyle stuff really which is his interest um I’ve seen this a lot of like on Instagram and stuff lately there’s loads of like new red line flight cranks in like candy red and candy blue and all different colors and stuff well that’s a bit that’s uh Planet BMX we’re getting those just from Taiwan and and and um powder coating them really nice however um but the stuff that Dom was making it was actually made by Lin Caston Lynn’s the original owner from Redline uh but his Interest really is freestyle so those kind of I mean you might not be familiar with them but like those like later 80s 88 ARL 22s you know they were like turquoise and chrome yeah really nice and they had like the top Tu the double top tube wrapped around the head tube I remember that yeah really really really uh trick uh so uh Dom fips who was involved in some of the freestyle boooks and the the Harrow one for example he’s been been involved with that W with Lynn and in fact just this week we had some stems the red line for Lift lifter stem and they’re incredible they’re so um the the the they’re so well done but that is separate from Red Line you know so if you go to like Redline Bicycles that’ll take you to alter cyclings uh you know thing and I don’t even know where Diamond Back is you know someone made a load of Diamond Back har L turbos I guess people would wanton them right I don’t know yeah um but I think it’s a little bit it’s somewhat it’s somewhat complicated but the people that think you can just get these Brands and then remake this stuff and it’s easy you ask Bill or you ask John de Bruin who did Hutch it’s hard it’s really really really really really difficult and to be able to get stuff made to that quality nowadays is um it’s definitely tough uh definitely a lot it’s harder now than it was then like we were talking about the number plates to get that stuff made now it’ be like and even things like because of um the bringing in regulations aren’t they and rightly so uh with regarding chroming you’re not going to there’s not going to be Chrome is there we’re not going to have Chrome you’re not going to be able to buy a Harley with home because you know it’s carcinogenic for the people that are doing the treatment environmentally it’s um you know it’s really bad uh and it’s going to be super super costly and currently I mean I know we had a uh someone bring a frame in and we wanted it chroming we were just like dude forget it just get it powder Co but it was his bike from back in the day and it was nothing special I don’t even know what I can’t remember what it was a burner I don’t know what it was uh and we did have it chromed for him but it was like it was over 500 quid yeah it was more than what the bik was actually worth but obviously it had some emotional value to to to the customer so we went ahead and had it done and it was it was really really good in the in the end so you know some things were just not going to be able to do anymore another rabbit hole for you [ __ ] yeah well so we were talking about Riders weren’t we so you were talking about with that started with w w with with Dylan and yeah I don’t know I guess it’s just I suppose it’s like magnetism isn’t it you know we had the brands we built the track so you know people and then even people that didn’t ride for us like you know Brian Jones and his brother and the Greaves is maybe from Southport so we just had this really strong Northwest scene didn’t we yeah yeah you could race locally and then you could go to a national wherever and you were already riding at a really Li he you were riding at high level locally weren’t you yeah that that’s what I think um yeah talking about the Greaves is John greev was number one in my age group in UK BMX when I started um and then obviously there was always loads of fast kids from Three Sisters uh what we used to call it Henley helan District you know your track um and then I you know because I lived in rainford it was like a bit far for me to to go there unless my dad could take me when he wasn’t at work and stuff um so we had our own little crew in in our village and and you kind of you end up riding into the level of you you know your crew sort of thing but I remember once we we went to ride it used to be called J’s Woods um was that Jason Ramon’s was it uh up this way near near near Winston Ley Winston Ley Woods yeah you mean winonly Woods I think it was yeah and you’d have like Tony Holland and Tony law down there and those guys yeah yeah and and I was friends with with Dylan and I used to race against Dylan’s older brother you mean J you mean Jason Brown Jason Brown yeah yeah and we I remember we went there and then we went to some other riding spots uh where there was like a big jump that they’d made and stuff um and yeah I just remember that that everybody there was pushing each other and they were all at a high level so I think that that’s what made you know so many good Riders from from from Wigan and stuff um because they’re all different age groups and all pushing each other and um yeah we we um we didn’t get the opportunity to go there too much other than you know when we went to the track and stuff but I think that’s what made it so cool and then obviously you know three sisters track was amazing uh your teams were really good and the bikes were super cool and I think just that whole scene that you created there was was was uh amazing nationally not just um you know in in the Northwest um but a a couple of years later I got friends um who’s are still friends now he’s old he was a few years older than me but um Tony Fleming and he rode for talker um and I’m pretty sure didn’t Tony made the super super cross Super Cross final at um the slly worlds still riding on toker wasn’t he he was on talker then uh yeah yeah and um I think he jumped a big set of those doubles on the corner yeah and like SM because he was I mean he was yeah I mean I mean you know Tony’s um a achievements you know a lot of people don’t know you know he went to America raced as a pro and like put it to Gary Gary Ellis and the top guys there I mean people forget about that because that was kind of like the little bit the dark ages of BMX yeah but at the end of like when it was big here and before it became under the UCI Banner uh yeah so an amazing Rider super powerful but he used to to smash stuff to [ __ ] I was just going to say he must have broke some stuff I remember like I remember him being down at me dad you know when we were iny and he come down and we had like we had a thing there with like some Stu and he was like and he had another wheel and me dad was like he’s [ __ ] selling this stuff he’s selling this stuff yeah he wasn’t he was just smashing it up because you know he would go for it but I remember that slow World specifically he came back and he’s like his rear wheel wouldn’t spin it was just like if only he had Z rims right like it wouldn’t like go PR past the brake blocks he was just his wheel was like shaped like you know like this and he went yeah yeah uh you know seven these are these are 36 old single wall rims with double buted spokes so yeah and and he was he was a big powerful guy wasn’t he big BL yeah he was always big you know and strong and he could jump and he could do freestyle stuff and yeah he was it was good for us and something that all you know over the years um you know throughout the decades and this is another point to make really uh and more so nowadays with social media it’s it’s scary really I mean my um me youngest son Ralph he’s like 26 he lived in China now he played uh national league basketball to uh a really high level and um ended up going to uh lbra University uh to to to play there and that’s like the the place for Elite Sport basically and a lot of the national bodies a base there kind of on the campus and I remember talking to him about um performance and winning and you know they were worried about in the future you know as social media grows um how important is winning and how important it is to be like a Mike Miranda yeah know Mike Miranda he wasn’t Greg Hill I mean how many races did Mike even win I mean no disrespect Mike no you badass dude but like you know even you’ll say that you weren’t Greg ill or you weren’t stew Thompson no but you had something that neither of those guys had that the kids could relate to because you were a you watch him you watch that clip from um Kelloggs at three sisters and the guy’s talking to Mike and Mike’s on the start gate and he’s like why did they call you Hollywood and he’s like I think you know yeah yeah phenomenal I’m a show off and I likeed and and but people love that and that was 1984 so if you look at that now and I know it’s difficult it’s easy e to be able to say to you know Paddy or Ross Cullen or Kai to say why aren’t you more like Mike Miranda because you just when you’re at that level you know I’m not that close to any of those guys but what matters medals yeah I me Brit cycling runs from like you know they get all their funding from you know they get funding all their funding but like it’s important to win medals how can it be any other way but surely um I don’t I haven’t got the statistics but you you can look at riders that are like you know this from from downhill that are that are amazing and maybe they finish fourth you know their post from the weekend gets more likes than anybody else’s 100% um and yeah I mean like go go back um when I was a kid and the the riders that influenced me to want a different bike they weren’t necessarily just the riders that won they were the riders that had the best style or the best personality or look the coolest you know and and still to this day I you know I’m not super drawn into a a bike brand just because it it wins World Cups it’s who’s riding that bike and and how they come across Ross and you know i’ I’ve dealt with a few sponsors with the race team in in the in the past you know five 10 years uh and it’s not just about the race results anymore it’s you know what you can offer them in with social media post and who your Riders are what what what they do outside of the racing as well and yeah Mike Miranda if Mike Rand had been you know if it had have been now in 80 8384 Mike Rand would have probably been one of the highest paid athletes around you know him and you know look look how good him and Andy ruffle were on uh on the cogs series um you know how many because we didn’t have access to all that stuff you know the amount of times I’ve watched the Coggs over the years is is insane you know and the certain things I can remember like I can still do your interview on the gate at Three Sisters word by word you know when you got interviewed by by um what Mike Brown I could still do that word yeah bloody um Pete Middleton passed me on that second straight but I was only running a 43 anyway did I get third I don’t know you got third yeah yeah your speech on the gate before uh you set off I can still re recall every single word no that they they were um that’s that is interesting isn’t it with the and it’s the same thing even it’s the same thing even now isn’t it um with the Riders you know and uh you know our race team and we’ve stepped that up this year and you know John Bentley’s done an you know he’s an amazing Rider and what John’s managed to achieve um is quite uh quite incredible uh despite all the kind of injuries and setbacks that he that he had when he got back into racing but again you know John’s really got a good eye for you know this kid’s going to be good they’re amazing on the bike and and yeah it’s well isn’t about the results really to be honest with you good if somebody wins yeah we had some really great results from cycle park at the weekend especially on the Sunday and I’m really proud of all those kids and I’m not saying you know winning doesn’t matter I mean it you know it does and it makes you it makes you proud but um the whole as you say and especially with with l so with BMX racing with the mountain biking I mean things really changed you know a few years ago when people were creating their own content and then you had these like like Crews like is it like 550 to1 and those guys yeah they do an amazing job and and they really make you want to make you want to go riding yeah know that that that’s that’s the key to it isn’t it because even with um with with with with freestyle BMX I watch the um I watched the World Championships up in Glasgow uh when it was last year uh I was in hospital still the time but I watch all that so I watch you know I watch the racing I watch the Flatland I watch the the park men’s and women’s uh disciplines and you know park it just left me cold you know you’ve got these amazing riders that can do all this stuff like yir and Riley I mean the kid is just amazing and you know as far as I’m concerned that gold medal has got his name on it before he goes to Paris do you know what I mean I mean incredible however and obviously I’m not the demographic get demographic for these Brands being 59 but it doesn’t make me want to ride you know it’s too it there’s like it’s elevated to the point where there’s kind of there’s too much going on um whereas you know there are still riders that like Kev pazza really he isn’t doing all the Mad stuff but it it’s done with a lot of style not that Kieran hasn’t got style he has I don’t want to confuse people here um but like also pazza like he’s [ __ ] stoked man yeah you can see that he still loves it and again I’m not wanting to put these different styles of riding against one another because this happened with skateboarding in in like the 80s where you had like Tony Hawk and Christian hosai so you had this like Tony Haw who could do all these technical tricks the 900 and everything else and you had Christian hoso that was like this looser kind of hash kind of dude he’d do like the rocket and it was all super cool and you were in one camp or you were in the other yeah uh and not to take anything away from Tony Hawk because who can Tony Hawk’s change the face of skateboarding yeah more than any other human being you know through the video games and everything else that he’s done and just and still an amazing humble down to earth you know guy and you don’t see that much of Christian oai nowadays I don’t know but it’s um it’s interesting isn’t it and and you can’t sort and nobody with either of those guys or or or Mike Miranda or whoever it was they didn’t have a media coach no no one told them how to speak in front of the camera it was just it was just them so to I know we’re using you know Mike Miranda as a you know but there were other Riders weren’t there you know you know Billy Griggs and some of the other Riders Steve veltman probably nearer to your age group like he was just like Spider-Man on a bik wasn’t he you know I remember seeing those pictures are those guys the hutch team at slagar and worlds in 83 I say seeing pictures I was there wasn’t it what was I talking about just to see them like you know doing Turn Downs over the jumps like in between the races you know obviously again you know we haven’t really give the respect to Hutch um it’s a little bit Bittersweet for me because I don’t know if you know this but Rich hutkins was a Robinson distributor on the East Coast so when he wanted to do his own thing he basically just took a hutch frame took the gusset out and that was a hutch wow no didn’t know um and obviously they had a semi Le in Axel Fork instead of an inline Fork that the Robinson had but if you look at a Hut frame and a Robinson frame it was very similar it’s the same frame yeah just he just had them made I think profile made them and he just sent them a frame and they had it made um but I was there in 83 uh and Hut had a cruiser and it was selling really well and like Chuck’s like yeah I’m going to make a cruiser I’m like oh cool you know I’d like to get a cruiser that’d be cool uh and we went out to a shop in seami Valley and bought a hutch Cruiser no way and we went and took it directly to Voris Dixon and said to Voris make this WOW CH got his own back in the end no way brilliant and that that that you know the Robinson Cruiser is a Hut so it was obviously with the inline with the with the inline with the inline Fork but again you know the jersey with the Stars on the sleeves well again it it looked incredible like you know for me in the when I first started the Robinson kit was by far the best I thought you know way better than anyone else one else’s that was my favorite and then when Hutch came out a few you know was at 85 I you know my dad got me a hutch um because that looked incredible to me as well um but both both of those two outfits and and bikes were two of the coolest I thought growing up for sure well I listened to that interview with you and you’re like yeah we went to Doncaster BMX it was like driving across Europe I’m like why didn’t not n speak to me I could have got you a hutch you see you were from China I could have just got you one I’m like you see I didn’t know all this like when you know obviously we weren’t doing a good enough job obviously we were so focused on Robinson people were like you want a Robinson you go to Allens and blah blah blah blah blah you know but we saw PK Rippers and honestly all other stuff I was literally like and you’re like yeah we were off to donc cast it was taking ages I’m like no yeah we did we didn’t honestly didn’t know like you know I I raced um all over the UK as as a kid and stuff but I I never was bothered about hanging out with all the pool fastest people I just hung out with my mates you know the ones I liked hanging out with who used to come and come and stay at my house and I’d go to their house and all that and you know my dad wasn’t part of the industry or anything like that so I think people used to just say you know I said to me dad I’d love to have a hutch and somebody must have told my dad oh you get a hot from here it didn’t even cross up yeah it might have been I think they had like a half page black and white ad in like BMX by weekly it was probably that I think and and it was like Hutch and that was kind of their although they were just a dealer rather than like an importer so you were just like oh Hutch and of course we wouldn’t run an advert that said H Hut would we no I I didn’t even think you’d be able to buy like looking back now I didn’t think you could get a hutch or a different brand from you because I just thought of you as being Robinson or talker but you know I wasn’t part of the industry then so now I yeah no no well if I can you know I’ll get in my time machine tonight and go back to 1981 andapa my marketing approach yeah we we could have just come to your shop instead I know I know but yeah I mean we didn’t sell that many of them but you know we did we did but the the thing was as well there was a u there was a Dutch guy bringing them in uh through the kind of back door and he was selling them to Dennis Christian who had a shop in um Barton near Barton ER Drome track in Manchester uh called Viking BMX right I didn’t really know the guy it was older guy well he you know I was 16 so he was like a bloke with like a Tash I don’t know um and you know did a few things like that from this guy from like Holland uh and I think this guy sorry I can’t if anybody and I can’t remember his name uh he used to you know buy them from the US and I think he had like relatives over here or a girlfriend or something over here so he would come over here like once a month or something and he would bring you know a few frames and he would um Tekken to Denis Christian and I was just reading through some old magazines recently and and it’s and it was BMX news and it said like oh who is the real distributor for this and they must have said that you know freewheeler Leisure gecko who did like red line and kuara were the distributor for this and this brand and then Dennis Christine was said well I’m doing it and I’m paying for an advert so they’d run an article saying like you know you can get the this brand I can’t remember what he was now it might have been Hut I don’t know uh from this place Dennis Christian Viking BMX all through whatever uh and and and again you know at the Times any of this any of this we’re talking about nobody had any contracts no no you weren’t like the official you know you signed for like two years to be yeah the official distributor for no no nobody had any nobody had any contracts and I don’t even think did the Riders have I think maybe the Riders maybe had a page like I’ll do the Nationals and I’ll do my best to promote the brand type of you know a single page thing um but yeah everything was done on a handshake I mean going back to um Roland swim Bank who did Fox from 1976 going into 1977 up until Berke Hawkins had it so in into the 80s um and when Roland uh passed away uh you know Su was running it and then um that was it that was like the end of the agreement then yeah so it was like till till death basically do you know what I mean yeah these uh these things uh there wasn’t any um you know you know we didn’t didn’t have any we didn’t have any contracts with anybody which you know it’s fortunate that we you know we kept the but I suppose not having a contract is a good thing because it means both parties have still got to like make it work and and obviously you’ve got a little bit of experience of this as well yeah who wants to be tied into something that you don’t want to be yeah for sure yeah definitely you know what I mean you know that’s why I’m trying to like put this in today’s perspective and I know you don’t want to you know I understand why these things have got to be there because you might have a sponsor or some or a partner that spends a load of money on you or on content or whatever and then you just jump ship to another thing and they’re left without it being a good deal um and I don’t know whether people’s people’s word isn’t worth what it was I don’t know yeah I guess you know it’s it’s like any era any industry you’ve got really honest people and you’ve got other people that are just in there to make money and sometimes you know that’s I guess that’s why these contracts are there and and yeah you know but so um obviously you it’s amazing what you’ve done with your shop and you still you know Allan BMX today from you know from running it as a as a kid with your mom and dad what obviously there’s been some uh challenging times with BMX you know as you said it started dying off in the in the um sort of late 80s and then I I was out of BMX for about eight years um Al together when I turned 17 and went to work and driving cars and going to raides and stuff and and and and you were still still there and you you ended up you know selling up a lot of skateboards and records for a period of time was was did you always bring in and sell BMXs was there any period where they just weren’t selling at all no sold a sold a BMX bike every year at least since 1981 I mean we moved in 1987 into Wigan Center used to be in hindley we go for a year which is because we only had a onee contract because they were knocking the shops down to build the galleries which they’ve just knocked down again uh that’s a long story um so yeah no I mean we probably didn’t sell that you know that many bikes at that time and then we moved to uh we there a year then at8 we moved to hallgate and then skateboarding was really big and we done skateboards from in fact I was looking for a picture to send you I’ll I’ll try and dig it out um there’s a photograph of me and it must be 1985 or 86 and I’m in the shop that you’ll know from then in hindley yeah and I’ve stood like with all the bikes around me talkers mostly Robinson and on the wall we’ve got all these Alva skateboard decks uh in fact it was 5 because when we went me and my dad went to uh the talker auction in February 85 we went to Tony Alva’s like shed and he’ made a load of custom boards all like custom painted I me I can’t imagine what they’d be worth today and the whole wall is just full of all these Alva decks I’ve got to find the picture now haven’t I um lost me train of thought now what what was the question so I was saying you know o over all those years did were you always selling oh yeah yeah no for sure so that that was skateboarding and then skateboarding then became skateboarding went through a similar underground period in the early 80s like the MX did in the late 80s um but we were skateboarding a lot at that time um and then when we moved to and then there’s this connection between music and skateboarding well Punk and skateboarding really uh before you know Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater with like the soundtrack which made all these bands brought you know a whole new audience to the dead kennedies and people like that but there was a close thing between um you know American hardcore punk and just punk in general between that and skateboarding and i’ was um you know like music and love you know the sex pistols and the damned and then you know crass after that so there was always that connection so through having still selling BMX and doing the skateboards we started selling records yeah so that was a people are like well that doesn’t make any sense but you know I always loved music and you know loved you know Slade and then David Bowie and whatever it was always a really important part of my life and still is and so then when we moved to um moved to Wigan we were able to kind of like do a record shop albe it on our terms so people would come in for like Duran Duran and stuff like that and we didn’t even have we didn’t have an account with like any of the major labels so we didn’t have any chat music at all no away so we would just have like the most mainstream thing we would have is like the Smith yeah people would go have you got like number three I’ll be like what is they just see records in the window and think it’s a record shop they’ll just sell records yeah and we just saw so I remember doing the order with like rough trade so we had like all all you know all the cross label stuff and you know all you know conflict and all the new kind of like Punk stuff and it was when the whole thing was going on with like you know UK hardcore and the elect trip isn’t extreme noise Terror and Nal death and all that so we’d have like you know all the rough trade label stuff and 4 a like cocko twins and that was as and we didn’t sell any like mainstream music at all and it was successful and then we moved to hallgate uh and then you know expanded a bit more and then we were fortunate fortunate uh um you know uh Stuart McCone is now a renowned uh you know writer and broadcaster you know has been you know kind enough to be able to mention Us in in his he’s wrote quite a few books mentioned us in the books and always does mention us whenever he gets a chance so shout out to Stuart uh and Richard ashro from The Verve yeah um uh cited as on a few occasions as being an influence because he would come into the shop and he would buy I don’t know the railway children or you know whatever thing that we had on Factory records or whatever but we all sold BMX at the time yeah so that then at that time we had the Record Shop downstairs and upstairs we had like skateboards we had a few bikes a few of those talkers that you talking about um and then we moved from the to Main Street which is probably where you got the Pro X from when we had I think we probably had BMX upstairs then and we had the Record Shop and the skate stuff downstairs I’m not even sure we around a few times I think so I remember coming in and you know I I hadn’t rode a BMX that was in 96 was it that long was it that late 96 yeah and we were like everyone was aluminium bikes and we were like my dad’s like you want one of these talks I I didn’t have a clue what BM what BMXs people had all I knew was you know uh well basically what happened was I I um I got uh I started riding I did a couple years in Motocross and then I got I had a mountain bike and I got a job riding at the weekend for the C Council doing the Duke eding award but I kept breaking my mountain bike CU I just had a normal Diamond Back mountain bike and my dad was forever trying to fix it and stuff and I was just riding it like we rode rbmx is you know jumping off stuff in the street and going the golf course and jumping bunkers and stuff and and then anyway and ended up getting a a better bike a GT zcar because because we won some money at in the office Syndicate and I ended up at couple BMX track with my mate and um I bumped into uh Dave IES and Darren REI uh didn’t even have a clue that there was people were still racing BMX bikes um and and I I I could still ride the same as I did when I finished in 88 I I just rode down the start hle jumped all the jumps and they were like wow you can still ride your bike and I was like yeah I didn’t really think you know anything of it and they said we’re going to a BMX National in a few weeks why don’t you come and I was like right okay um so then I just went to your shop and asked and said I needed a BMX frame can’t even remember how it happened exactly cuz I had a few parts you know left in the garage and stuff and so I bought the to prox off you obviously you said you you have to Proxes and I was like oh yeah I remember them FL one of them and you know your team and then I I got the bite built up and remember mik the bite from Kirby yeah course yeah he he used to help all the kids out didn’t he with parts and stuff well my dad used to always talk to him at the Kirby BMX track because they were like engineer and they used to talk about bearing sizes and all that stuff I ended up I don’t know how I don’t no idea how but I ended up at his house and he was like a hoarder and he had just I said I need I need some rims because the it I think your dad must have sprayed this talker white and it had the Chrome red and white stickers on and I had a few bits in the garage and uh I had some H was it all was it all white or was it like red and white all white the frame no that’s how the came from T were oh was it yeah yeah it was all white and anyway so I wanted to have the red bits on it and stuff I had some campag hubs still in the garage some Hutch cranks and uh some other bits and then Mike got me some um he had some red Aro rims AR Ray Aro rims so we built them up I think I must have got like a a saddle off you and some grips and bars and stuff like that can’t can’t quite remember anyway built this bike up literally rode it I think I went riding around the village on it once and then went to this National and everybody was going mental over me bike like I didn’t realize it was it wasn’t it was 12 years old 12 13 years old by then but I didn’t know I didn’t know the bikes have changed I didn’t know they were all aluminium and I feel a bit I feel a bit bad but like yeah but I won I know I know that’s the thing I’ve got I’ve got I’ve got mixed feelings because like one I’m like oh we we we’ve duffed him off a bit here by having one of these old talker frames up on but then the the the joke was on you because you whooped their ass yeah well do you know what Alan had never won a national ever when I raced as a kid I got second and I got third and uh I was actually winning Chesterfield and Darren cr’s handle bars running me back wheel down the thir straight and I lost that but um so I just didn’t have any expectations whatsoever raced in n and over expert um borrowed me mate’s Hutch helmet had an open face Hutch helmet still in the garage and uh ended up making the final and winning it was it was insane like were you much different in age group to Allen Hill same age group right okay I thought you might be yeah so I remember racing hilly a bit when I was a kid um and um and Darren Croft was really fast um and you know but going through my going through the eras of when I was racing obviously like when I first started off J John Greaves was super fast and then for quite a while it was Jeremy Kennings he was like this giant in our age group he just won everything because he was so big and powerful um and then then um but I started getting decent at it when I was at like 15 because I grew you know like any other kid if you grew and had a bit more power and then I stopped doing it so then when I came back to racing in 97 um you know I was as big as everybody else so I guess it was easier do you know what I mean uh but that would have been 19 plus that would have been like that would have been tough that wouldn’t it so anyone who was 19 a row was in that class it wouldn’t been an easy age group that would it no but I I didn’t know didn’t know half of them I just knew like Dylan and and and Flo and um REI and that they were in the Pro class um so I only really knew them I didn’t really know all the people in night over expert but yeah they said it was I know Dave Ives who I went with who had been racing he he didn’t make the final and he’s like no why you’ve made the final and I was like yeah yeah and yeah it was it was pretty mad but what what’s interesting what you’ve said and this is good advice to anybody who might even still if there is anybody even still watching or listening to this at this point I mean get alive this is episode 25 the this is something that you know my dad did when I was racing motorcross we didn’t go to the same Club every week so I never got any end of season like awards for like northwest school boys because because we would race there one weekend and then we would race in like Yorkshire the next weekend and then we’d be in cumri the weekend after and then we’d be in Birmingham so obviously and eventually I got to know who I was racing against but like a lot a lot of you get stuck in a Groove don’t you have like I know I can beat him yeah he can beat me yeah so you you’re holding yourself by psychologically I definitely did that when I was younger because you’ve got this pecking on order so just to go to like another club and you don’t know who you’re riding against uh and it does you so good not just for your performance there on the day but allows you to take that because let’s be honest you know cycling and BMX it’s so mental oh 100% yeah you know what I mean I mean obviously you’ve got to be fit you’ve got to be in shape your legs have got to be strong and you body’s got to be strong now but like the mental aspect of it yeah is such such a large part and and I think if you know if I had kids that were racing Grand or grandkids you know you want them to go to like somewhere where they didn’t know anybody yeah and just ride to the best of your abilities and then you can start to get that mindset of like just narrowing in on just doing your thing you racing the track you’re not racing anybody else you know yeah it’s the same same with my little boy plays he’s 12 coming up to 13 he plays football and when they know they’ve got a a tough match a tough he’s they’re already going oh we’re playing this team we’re going to lose today I’m like how’ you know it’s the same with BMX and I used to look at the the Moto sheets and if I had Jeremy Kennings flipping Nicki restle and whoever in the motos I was like oh God going to get smoked you know where like you say if you don’t know who’s in your race you haven’t got that doubt so you just give it your old don’t you yeah yeah no for um yeah definitely for for sure Al that’s funny that you were in a hil’s age group but you know I thought you might be yeah and and obviously I’ve I’ve only dabbled in BMX racing um since the 80s like every it seems like about every seven years I get a this this seven year AG yeah yeah so I did that in 97 and did a couple of races around that time time because that’s when I started down racing um but some of my friends who I got friends with again were still doing B Max so did did did a bit then I ended up in I think in N so that was 96 in 97 I ended up doing a couple of Nationals on on Cruiser and I ended up racing with G who was one of my heroes as a kid that was that was an insane um um experience to race against G you know years later yeah um and then I did a whole Year’s racing we didn’t mention Kellogg’s 85 what oh of course I did yeah it still puts s on the back of me neck now um and then I went to and then I did a whole Year’s racing in 2005 so a long time after again um and that I raced with Tony Fleming all year battled with him in the National series the worlds Europeans I did it a year and then I went back and raced in so in in 2005 yeah I raced I raced 30 to 39 Cruiser and 19 and over expert again on 20 in but hilly was in Elite but I remember racing hilly at the Europeans in sheda on Cruiser cuz he he raised Cruiser then as well and I I actually managed to win that so I beat Tony and um hilly in that race and then I didn’t then I stopped doing it again because I was busy with mountain bike stuff and and then I went to the world championships in 2012 in Birmingham oh yeah I race that uh I ended up tangling with some Dutch guy I was actually leading out the first turn got a better start than hilly and and then me and this Dutch guy Tangled in the first turn and Anthony Rebel passed us who was in my age group as a kid as well uh and I ended up getting third there um and then yeah I did a race A couple of years ago um at the indoor um just because I think it was I remember were you on were you on the uh on the quadangle 2ad angle yeah remember so so I turned up on the quad angle um and like there was a lot of serious guys in my age group I knew you know Rey and and Rey and uh Alan Hill with the two fastest guys in the class and you know they’re all clipped in and stuff and I turned up on the cad angle on my Vans on and everyone was asking me why was I riding this bike and why was I what was I doing and it’s like don’t know it’s a cool bike in it so just raced on it and I managed to get I think I got fourth or second day on it um which was cool I remember that remember that that was amazing but that’s that’s what’s so important isn’t it because if you do something Rock up with something like that and no one expects you to do well and if you you can’t you can’t lose can you really no because if you if you got Moto no one would think any different and if you do well whatever you do is a bonus isn’t it yeah and to be honest Alan um you know I don’t when I race I’m competitive and I always try and win whatever I’m doing um even though if I don’t think I’m I can win I still now as I’m older I try and win but um and this is a question I wanted to ask you because you’ve been much more involved in BMX over the the decades and I have but the the the modern BMX is is is is how cool they are and how you know high tech they are and whatever you know I’ve dealt with Hightech mountain bikes and stuff but I just don’t really like I just like the look of 8s BMXs um for me that’s what a BMX bike is and obviously you know I need to ask you about the talkers and stuff but that just makes me more excited you know I could go out and buy a a carbon BMX and flipping go and try and win the 50 plus in overclass but doesn’t really interest me I’d rather go and race on a a bike it’s Chow Molly and looks looks like it did in the 80s you know what I mean well that’s just me um yeah I mean I appreciate that you know the BMX has evolved and I and I and you know once you know what goes into like you know Carbon Fiber and you know how stiff the bikes are and you know the hydr forming of the tubing and you know the width in the bottom bracket and how much you know surface area the tubing has got in the head tube um it’s yeah it’s fascinating uh stuff [Music] um on one hand and on the other hand it’s kind of going back to what we were talking about with you know the Johnson’s and the fact that they made a a mile steel version of the talker to make it affordable um kind of it does worry me that the entry level price and obviously a kid can just go and buy a complete GT for like 600 Quid and win a National on it yeah that that can happen um but it’s tough to put a kid on a start line on that when everybody’s got like carbon rims right you know some kids don’t give a [ __ ] and they’ll just perform their best but you can’t help but I mean even yourself you know know it’s you’re coming from that’s it from a different perspective now but if like you’ve got good equipment and your stuff looks good and you feel good in your bikes good you know you believe so you believe that you can win because you know you’ve got everything that you need and you feel good it’s like it’s like when you get a new bike isn’t it you’re just so stoked yeah build a whole new bike up from scratching you just like man yeah that feeling never leaves you does it no you just like like you just want to ride up and down the road you didn’t even need to go to track you just you just stoked aren’t you yeah and I think that is that’s important but it’s a little bit I think the whole thing where parents think you know you’ve got to go to Holland training and you’ve got to go you’ve got to do and maybe it takes some of the the fun out of it but this is all part of the elevation of the sport isn’t it unfortunately um and BMX has always been really cool because you know although it was dear back in the day relatively and I’ve always said this BMX racing was always the sport or even BMX freestyle really was a sport that you could it was attainable and affordable yeah like you want to do any other if you go to British cycling websi and you look at the disciplines downhill Enduro Cross Road Track even trials I mean how much is a bike five grand 10 grand 20 grand I don’t know yeah BMX 500 quid mate yeah and you know it’s good enough to be able to do the job it’s going away from that a little bit and this is me speaking to someone that sells like you know cab and Faber frames that are two grand um so it’s great that it’s got that it’s become a a little bit like Formula 1 yeah and that’s part of the sport becoming elevated to the point where people respect it finally after 40 50 years but it makes it less accessible to you know and let’s be honest you know the state that this C don’t startop me going down this rabbit or the state that the country’s in a little bit less so the country that you live in now Nigel can’t blame you mate who knows you might end up in Europe again no chance for us we are screwed Ed you bet I’m all yeah I thought about it myself there’s a nice house down the road for sale if you want to join us Alan and there there’s a few bik there’s a few shops for sale as well yeah well that’s yeah mixed blessings there with them two things I tell you the the um it’s hard for people isn’t it you know you speak to normal people um and you know we don’t even know how bad it is we because we’re here and we’re like in it it’s difficult isn’t it just normal people who are in this 1% of the world and you know there’s you know a husband and wife who are working 40 hours a week and still can’t make it pay yeah because of like the cost of everything and Shrink inflation and everything else have we seen the size of a curly whirly yeah recently yeah you know what I mean but stuff is I mean I had to go for a scan at um Trafford General Hospital uh for a CT scan and you know I was like oh we’ll go to Peter Express went to Peter Express we had I had a pizza Julie had like a salad I don’t think we had a starter we had a mineral water and I think she had a dessert and I had a bit of it it was 42 quid oh no I mean it is just it’s insane so so you know to have you know BMX to be a um an affordable Sport and that it’s going away from that it is a bit sad really that we’ve got BMX freestyle still you don’t need to have titanium Spokes and you could still probably spend less than a, pound on a bike and win any contest in the world yeah8 blind crank and some sealed hubs and you know double wall rims and and a frame that suits you top tube wise you you could still win the Olympics on that bike yeah you know what I mean so that’s not that’s still kind of um you know heartwarming that that’s still accessible but it is a little bit sad that BMX Racing’s got to be gone so far and then that kind of leads me on to something that we’ve discussed you know many times over the last decade or so how BMX has become so removed from bicycle motorcross yeah and you know now obviously when I did that race in Warrington which was 2000 22 23 years ago and now someone’s done the Frogtown event and the um uh the dirty Fest Mike Miranda’s dirty Fest event and you see those events and you just like not even from an old school perspective but you’re like yeah yeah that is rad and and and then the I don’t know if you saw the one in France the bicycle Motocross day that Fabian uh did not seeing that one I’ll send you the link to it it’s in South um Western France heading down towards like mellier way um and again it’s very similar um I’ll send you the link to the video but they’re not doing it this year there they’re going to they’ve got they can’t use the field apparently but they’re going to do it next year um and I’m talking to them about us being involved in that it’s an amazing event but you see those events and you just think and you I knowly we’ve got all with controversy about like clips and you know the TAC burms and that’s taken away some of the racing and the Racing’s become more like track and since it’s been in the Olympics and I can see all that but I can still watch it you know I was at the Manchester National and it’s still amazing and obviously it’s not what it was whereas and we’ve discussed this you know Motocross motor Motocross and in I mean they still race at hawkstone Park yeah I me it’s still the same track that they rode in like 19 bloody 60 or 50 or whenever they started there like when they had a you know Grand PRI there in the 70s and the 80s it it’s basically the same track I mean I know the bikes are like four strokes and blah blah blah blah blah and everything else and the bikes are amazing but the sport is still the same where BMX is like it it’s it’s like BM bicycle Super Moto it isn’t bicycle yeah Motocross it’s a hybrid of you know Tac and and dirt and everything being you know compressed um and I was talking to um M mate Dave Arnold recently when we went to the studio to do that work on the record um we were talking about this and he used a really good a really good music analogy it’s like in the 19 70s you know music went further and further and further with like progressive rock so we had like deep purple and then we had these other like prog rock bands like yes and Nazareth and the songs went from being like three minutes long to like 12 minutes long you know and I love some of that stuff I’m not ragging on it and it just went so far and then punk rock came along with a two-minute song and three chords and it was just a re set and it almost feels like BMX racing has gone so far that it’s taken this raw Essence that it used to be away from it so may maybe these you know more dirt orientated events not just for the old school guys I think the kid I think if we had like a downhill dirt race the kids would love it yeah I mean I I watched the footage from Dirty Fest the other weekend and um you know obviously I was it was exciting watching the old school guys racing but I watched some of the you know the kids racing and they were just on like old school BMXs and and modern BMXs with the seats up and like those bikes you know I still ride them now as you know I I go down to my unit or go to the V shop on my BMX with my seat up ride down the village on it I don’t care if people look at me it’s it’s a it’s a much nicer bike to ride down to the shops on than my Enduro bik with big sticky tires on and uh just think bikes for those kids you can just do a bit more on them you know if you’ve got a carbon clipped in race bik with a seat that’s basically attached to the frame you can’t do anything else with that other than go to be Max track it’s like it’s like a trials bike isn’t it really single purpose yeah whereas like you know I i’ there’s so many good mountain bike trails here where I live it’s like one of the when the weather’s like nice like this now there’s not many better places in the world um it’s as good as anywhere um but like you saying there you know the estate I live on not everyone can afford a five grand mountain bike if we had a little dirt track here like with jumps BMX trap that kid and and the local shops sold BMXs where you could put the seat up and ride around on them just think it’d be so accessible to to to people that can’t afford to get into mountain bik and and you can have just as much fun I think yeah and then people think that unless you could achieve that and that price point you can’t do it so un unless you can have and because you know kids are kids aren’t they so if you turn up like it’s like when you got the grifter and your friends had the BMX bikes they’d have been like dude’s on a grifter or like when you said when Dylan turned up and you know Ruby Hall and he had the the bike with the mags on and people were like yeah you know what I mean and and obviously yourself and you know Dylan were strong enough characters to say you know what screw you I’ll I’ll bring the I’ll come on this bike and I’ll still whoop your ass yeah yeah but a lot of kids you know they wouldn’t do that would they they’d be like oh because I haven’t got such a thing because and also you know the pressure of you know social media and how I can’t imagine what it must be like to live in a kid’s world in in 2020 I mean my kids were just I mean Toby’s 31 and Ralph’s 26 or 27 or something I don’t know he he um you know they just they just you know they had PlayStation and they had Nintendos and stuff but and then they had phones when they came out but they really were they missed that entire yeah that entire thing so this pressure that the kids must feel that they’ve got to attain I mean not just I mean not just we bikes with clothes and and trainers and yeah I mean it was a bit like that when we were younger wasn’t it if he didn’t have like Vans or Adidas yeah were but but now it’s like me how much trainers even are nowaday well you’ve got a teen czy they’re not like 50 Quid are they do you know what I mean no and you know but especially for bikes so that does make me feel a little bit sad the BMX can’t be more accessible to to to more people um and you know and I still stand by you know when we had that deal you know a Christmas with well I’ll say it GT yeah you know we had that deal with GT and we did bikes for half price so you know a kid could get like a GT 16inch or an 18inch performer seal buring bottom bracket seal R Hub integrated headset for 175 quid which was less than we sold bikes for that price that quality point in 1981 oh so you know we got hundreds of kids onto BMX bikes you know just and and we both know that you know for the average kid a single speed bike is way better than like a geared bike yeah because how long do gear stay in the kid throws it down the rear the rear met gets bent they’re not a no you know I love m bikes but they’re not a good they’re not really a good thing for kids are they no not definitely not not to learn on and like you know my my little lad doesn’t we’ve got a pretty basic pump track about four miles away that we pedal to on the BMXs and um you know that’s why my bike is so good or like you know the old school bikes you can just put your seat up and pedal there and then you put your seat down track ped yeah just get quick get a 5 millimeter alleny or a quick release seat clamp and it’s Happy Days yeah um and then but but like you know mountain bike is brilliant here and ebikes there’s more seen more and more ebikes all the time you know I’ve lived here just under three years two and a half years now and the amount of ebikes that come at weekend at the weekend is probably like three four times more now so it’s great for that but my lad doesn’t want to Pedal 300 meters up to the top of the hill you know to ride down whereas if there was a a dirt BMX track here I’m sure like all the kids would be on it every day you know yeah I suppose it’s we’re overthinking it aren’t we sometimes yeah um but yeah hopefully you know in in the not too distant future we we you know the people will um the penny will drop in terms of you know a simpler form of BMX racing that doesn’t need you turn up there with a a tiger power block you’re G to be on your ass yeah I mean yeah we better get yeah they better hurry up getting making those comp threes again yeah yeah they you know what I mean so yeah and maybe I don’t know yeah I I still think that you know modern BMX racing and a more a more dirt orientated version of it could work hand in hand a little bit like Supercross and Motocross work so you can be a specialist in one yeah but you can still do both uh and I don’t think we would get that many older Riders to be honest because we’re all getting like [ __ ] aren’t we but but you know the younger kids and maybe the dirt you know the the younger riders that ride dirt to be into this as well yeah um yeah so it’ll be before I’m done with this I’d like to see that happen you know yeah yeah no me too um like like you said we’ve talked about it a few times it’d be really cool to uh at some point get get an event uh happening just yeah see how it goes um and you know that might increase the uh the the Resurgence of all these cool bites that you’re starting to bring in like the talkers and stuff you know um well you know maybe but like I say I think we’d be surprised how many of the younger kids who’d be yeah be who’d be down for this but when I you know what if I pedal around the our village uh on my like six grand ebike or I go out on my old school um cruiser with my skyways on I get way more looks off the kids shouting wow that’s a cool bike you know it’s I mean it’s hard for us to say because that’s our era but the bikes do look good yeah you know we’ve we’ve ever been to like an old event there’s been kids there they’ve just been like wow look at that that looks and really that’s this you know part of the success of ESS yeah because Todd’s taken those cues from you know se’s past and packaged it in like a 29er or a 26 or a 27 and a half or a 27.5 plus yeah or put a dellia on it or done whatever he’s done with it and you know people are like wow that’s amazing and then he’ll show a picture of like yeah this Design’s from like 1979 yeah it just goes to show how fundamentally right it was you know all you know from all those from all those years ago so uh yeah it be it’ be good but yeah I’ll send you that link to the to the thing in France it looks really cool I’m G to try to uh in fact just have an email off the guy today so hopefully but he text us ages to email because his English is pretty good and I’m learning French my French is quite bad so i’ I’ve got like a third of the way through the email and I’ve got like I’ve got to do some future tense and I don’t like Googling it you know no I just have to copy and paste Google trans well I don’t like doing that so I’d be like if I have to say you know we will be coming and I’ve got to think of how to say that in French I will learn how to be able to do it and then I’ve brilliant then then then I’ve got it and I language is amazing when I was in um it was funny when I was in hospital we had a lot of nurses from um from the southern part of India from Kerala uh specifically so just out of respect because they’re they’re just so amazing um I’d start to learn carola I’d start to learn phrases in um they speak malum which is a little bit like uh Tamil and it’s written like in Sanskrit so I can’t read it so I would learn but I would learn enough phrases um so it was quite funny so I remember going down to um r ideology for anend Endoscopy don’t even ask me what that [ __ ] is but anyway and then I I I could kind of you get used to the accent don’t you a little bit do you know what I mean so I I would say I would say um ningal malam which means you know do you do you speak malam and they’d be like yes and I’d asked them where they were from and then they would you know say you know you know coot or wherever they were from like in Cara uh and yeah it was quite it was funny because and then I remember going down one time saying this to them and they’re like they’ve got all the other nurses in so they had all the car and I’m just this like middle-aged white guy and and I can only say phrases do you know what I mean but yeah it was really um yeah it was uh it was funny and and I think that if you’re somewhere and in a situation and you can just learn a little bit of the language it’s always respectful isn’t it and especially for those who are who who are curing for you do you know what I mean uh and um yeah so I spent I I stopped learning French really because I switched to um a switch to me to learning Mam and I’m not really on Facebook but uh some you know we post to Instagram and then that post to faceb sometimes I’ll post to Instagram and I’ll make a mistake and I’ve got to log into to Facebook to be able to um to fix a typo or something that I’ve done wrong do you know what I mean so I logged into face this is last week this is just last week I log into Facebook and um like it isn’t in English anymore yeah I can’t even explain this so I I I copied and pasted um something that it like said and um put it into Google translate you know and you can get detect language it’s like detect language um and it would translate it into English so it like translated into English language malam no way how’s he done that so I must have it’s like when you talk about something the next minute on your Instagram it comes up got an ad for it it’s all listening to you I would have thought that with Facebook you’ve got to change user language and then anyway I logged out and logged back in again and it’s now in English right crazy well that’s that’s funny isn’t it um yeah what were we talking about now what are you gonna do we’ve gone too far we’ve how are you gonna even oh Mya my daughter’s going to have to um edit all this and decide what we do with it it’s it’s uneditable it’s just garbage it’s just no don’t worry about it um well I guess we it’s probably about midnight so we probably should um call it a day soon but before before we do it’s it’s been real really interesting to me and I’m sure there’s going to be loads of old school BMXs and it’s hard because so many things are are connected so I really do have a difficulty even if I’m talking to somebody and we’re talking about something is it like something’s related to something else go and you don’t want to like not mention that I know because it’s relevant so it’s not like oh tell me about the Riders you know Tony Holland or whatever from then because the there’s other things that like you know music story yeah you know cross over and um I hav’t even talked about like you know the motorbike thing and the stuff that we’ve done in recent years and I know you haven’t talked about any all my on my arrests and the on the reason why I can’t get a visa to go to America I know we haven’t talked about I think we we’re going to have to do another one at another another Point like which I’m sure is going to happen with a lot of people especially PE when when you’re when you’re in your 50s like us we’ve got a lot to to say haven’t we because we’ve been around for a while oh I mean I had to learn like legal stuff and you know I’ve self representing myself at the Royal court of justice and yeah like mad stuff that you never thought I had to buy a suit I was 57 before I had to buy my first suit I thought i’ done pretty well there you know you did I got I got I got the best that British Heart Foundation could [Laughter] offer so well yeah we we’ll have to talk about that another time but um just you know briefly what’s what’s you know I’ve been following your Instagram for ages and and and it’s been really exciting watching these talkers getting made and you’ve just you’ve just uh had them delivered this week haven’t you is that correct yeah um bit of a yeah and you know product is great in the end and uh yeah I mean Bill Ryan is the custodian of the brand who’s done Supercross BMX um and I’ve always had a lot of respect for for Bill uh you know we have done the brand in the past and when hilly rode for us he was on Supercross I remember um but but Bill’s like worse than me man he’s got so many things going on right he’s just like a madman um and you know whether and I know he’s got like you know he Sunder and Angela and some great people around him but like yeah Bill’s pretty bad at taking a lot of stuff on sure and who else would like go oh yeah let’s do talker how many friends should we do to start with does nine sound about right no but you know the guy is’s a genius and you know he’s managed to be able to pull it off so I’m like yeah let’s just do you know one and like no let’s do nine and I’m like oh how far are you on with these he goes all in production no way and I’m just like so yeah it is really exciting and it’s been very humbling to see U um how how important talk as a brand you know was and not just because of like the USP of the twin top tube people just really really really really really love the brand yeah and let’s be honest it’s one of the great you know iconic brands of BMX is Golden Era that hasn’t been done to death yeah so it’s amazing to be you know involved with that you know all over again yeah um so yeah it it stoked I just saw K sanderson’s bike built up did you see that I saw a picture of it yeah yeah so uh cool so I think they’ve done a great job with that because it’s still it’s got all the modern geometry but it’s got a taller stand over yeah and um and which one well that’s that’s like the prox 24 that’s the prox 24 yeah so yeah so we’ve got prox 20 XL double XL and then then then the uh and then the 24 the 24s sold out here and in America I mean I think we sold all the frames about maybe four within the first five minutes when they went live because Bill didn’t want us to pre-sell them because he was doing the launch at dirty Fest and it would have caused problems because people in America would have been ordering frames for us to [ __ ] back there and yeah it would all have been a mess uh and and I wasn’t sure how it was going to work and then we ended up aligning our launch time to the same as them so we had a countdown on the website it was 5:00 pm you know uh GMT which was 9:00 a.m Pacific Standard time so we were all um and you know it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s all gone it’s all gone it’s all gone really well uh so far but we’re still we’re still stickering the frames and then you know we’ve got some bills to be able to do for customers um we’ve got a couple of really H really nice high-end bills to do for uh for people so I can’t I mean you’re probably the same as me arra yeah but when you see it as a bike oh yeah it’s a whole other thing isn’t it so I can’t wait to see you know car’s bike but if you go on to the talker Riders uh group on Facebook that’s basically where people are putting all the pictures of the build so that’s really really exciting uh to do that and then there’s going to be another these aren’t limited edition we just keep making them then there’s going to be another batch of frames um you know this year uh and then um and then next year is tus 50y year anniversary so there’ll probably be some cool stuff W but then I I imagine and um you know I don’t know where this is going to go on the modern side but you know maybe you know there will be more um more race orientated you know modern whether there be a carbon talk that’s up that’s that that’s up to Bill but um yeah I mean just doing Supercross and then he’s got retro Supercross frames coming out because supercrop is 35 years wow yeah old so he’s got collaborations you know I know they’ve got a uh there’s going to be a Vans collaboration Supercross shoe really cool to how he can do all that and do got to be a black black white and yellow talk of Van shoe come out there well are you listening Vans yeah I definitely yeah like black with the with the golden yellow and then the black and yeah yeah um yeah so yeah so he’s already got that contact there so who knows where that’s going to go and um yeah it’s it’s really uh it’s really it’s really exciting and it’s and it’s it’s tough you know bills got Flack because he didn’t have frames with an American bottom bracket because the freestyle frames he did mid the race frames he did Euro and even the vintage frames that he did like the um the Eddie King like the Eddie King was basically like a 280 280X or the lp lpx in in frame um terminology but the Eddie King frame always had a Euro BB because he wasn’t going you know we only had an American bottom bracket so you could put a one piece crank through it right yeah so people were like oh what’s this new threaded thing I’m like no this is 1979 yeah yeah and you know I’d much rather put a European bottom bracket into a frame than knock some cups in with a piece of wood and a hammer so but but I think people that were you know don’t really remember that perhaps you know just grew up on American bottom bracket that’s the thing that they remember but even the Robinson the Scott Clark frame had a European that the frame that Tony Holland rode the Scott clar frame that was a Euro BB wow um and obviously this was designed for like a Shimano campag Square taper yeah bottom bracket but obviously you can run a a flight crank in there now with a 19 millimeter spindle or even a 22 millimeter spindle from a GT crank and we’ve got bottom brackets that fit into those so but Bill did get you know quite a bit of stick from people saying you know why is it even though we did all those different things trying to cover every all bases you’re not going to be able to please everybody and everything that I’ve seen you know in terms of the graphics and you know how well everything’s been done it couldn’t be in a better place so I’m I’m I’m stoked with that I’m where it can go you know is there going to be a you know a talker at the at the Worlds at Carbon why not I say yeah where’s where’s the world um next year I don’t know it’s in America this year isn’t it Rock I don’t know where it is are you you’re not thinking what I are you it’s not Scotland I’d only be interested in the uh in a in a chrome mly one though yeah well I mean you know John’s how many Nationals has John Bentley won on this SNM Steel Panther right yeah yeah yeah and quite a few if I could make a final on a ST1 with the bottom bracket flexing in half then um I’m sure uh I’m sure to Pro X would be better I mean these these have you know when they have the samples these have been tested on the you know these are I mean and then the other thing that we have in our um um we have available to us is we’ve got that the T tager frame which was going to be the new TKA frame before T went bust and it’s the frame that Mark Cox and and Darren Rey rode R rode it in 86 at slow Yeah so basically they don’t have the gusset around the seat tube so the two tubes run parallel and then they just welded around the C tube yeah um so I don’t know maybe a frame like that with a Dismount yeah low profile could be could be a cool thing so it’s still a top twin top tube they didn’t they didn’t have a gusset at all on on the head tube they didn’t even have the little red line gusset from the Pro X did you have Pro X gusset crack well no but I I I ended up when I start when I stopped doing the BMX again and got into like doing mountain biking full time uh a young lad who used to take racing ended up with my talk of prox and I think he snapped it oh yeah we never had one snap but all the gussets cracked at the weld at the the you know the little triangular Redline style gussed yeah uh at the front of the gusset where it Wells to the head tube they just used to have a hairline crack right you I even M the one I’ve got from at I’ve got my bike from 8 to six um and you know that’s cracked and you know and I wasn’t a big jumper or anything do you know what I mean yeah no I mean I was yeah I wasn’t too hard on bites because I you know I did jumps and stuff but I always did like kind of tried to jump smooth not you know h big stunts and stuff yeah yeah instead of like up yeah yeah so um but yeah I’ll have to ask him again because I actually saw him um last month when I went to California he’s done really well in the in the in his um job in his field uh um it’s like a graphic design for for apple and TV companies and you know digital digital adverts and stuff and he he he lives in um Santa Monica at the moment um and I did mention about telling him that the toker Proxes were coming back out and you were doing them and he was like oh yeah that one I got a you I snapped it or something but I never got into it so I need to ask him again and see what happened to it yeah still we if he still got it in the garage we can weld it up right I know I don’t I don’t think he has I think he’s got a few things in in his garage he’s uh he’s done really well in in in his uh you know in in his life with with with what he does um oh don’t you hate these people I used to pick him up and take him racing every week in my Astan oh these successful people they make you sick I was I was I was made up for him it was it’s really cool so um anyway um well it sounds like a perfect candidate for one of these Pro xes all tricked out with profile vintage cranks on and everything I’ll I I’ll I’ll speak to him and I’ll I’ll I’ll I’ll build I’ll I’ll build him an invoice and we’ll send it to all right yeah and don’t don’t sell them all don’t forget I’ve got to get one of these things we’ve got them don’t worry you’re you’re you’re you yeah I’ve I’ve allocated them over for you when they came in so we’re all we’re all we’re all go we’ve just got to get a um my U uh me niece Melanie Miss sister ‘s daughter um roer is in 81 on talk Melanie um Gilmore now wallhead uh lind’s found her original shirt wow and she just sent me pictures of it this is the original 1981 shirt I’ll send you a photograph of it it’s absolutely mint you know they were white and they used to go yellow yeah it’s absolutely like perfect so it be you know I’ll have to speak to Bill about us doing some uh do doing a few shirts I’ve got the ponts and all that stuff to be able to do them so and they were on like a uh they’re printed on like a PK material like a polo shirt yeah so we need to find a long sleeve because obviously it’s easy to go to like RSD and say makers you know a couple of shirts like team shirts but it’d be cool to have original the original shirt and we’ve got a eight transfer in fact we still had up until recent recently the original heat transfers no way that I bought from TKA in February 1985 I don’t know if they’d still work I made a couple of shirts made one for Craig burrows for the the race that we did at warington yeah so I don’t know if it’d still work but at least it’d be good to be able to get the yeah exact measurements and everything off but I’ve got Melanie shirt now though we could do that from and it’s got the yohar of California and the Amy and the harro and the max all all this and it’s all done using heat transfer so we’ve got you know I’ve got um a vinyl cutter and um you know he he press and all that so we could we could make those you know we could make those shirts but obviously I need to speak to Bill first to be able to get that approval to be able to but yeah we could do it and they had UK team yeah we could replicate all that and then the names on the back as I did you know the sample one with you and John we can do hopefully you know if that passes um approval you know we’ll be able to do you know a couple of those just for like team Riders uh quite quite cool John’s John’s all set for um John’s you know definitely racing his at cumal so um so yeah because that’s the I’ve not rode the track because that’s but that’s the closest track to me but it’s quite a long way away but uh everyone loves that track we did a thing with the our Riders at the uh like favorite track track and it everyone’s like cinal and then the one after that is plat fields in Manchester okay well I’m I’m going to look at the dates and see if I can get to Cal before that ride the track and maybe I’ll do it well have you got enough parts to build a modern bike up from 20 inch and 24 yeah but I’ve got two I’ve got two oneoff new proof BMX bikes I’ll just Swap all the parts over yeah and if you need a couple of bits we can we can we can sort that yeah just when I know you’re busy so when you’ve got time let me know and I’ll B down you could run um on the prox the 20 other 24 you can run like modern external like a holch 2 type BB oh mine’s got um a Euro bot bracket with red line flights in it well whichever yeah I mean that would go that would go stra you know providing the the spacing is okay for the for the back but I’m not sure I think Cal probably built his up with external Bings you could do either okay well obviously I just like the external buring because you’ve got the the longevity haven’t you like the the small Euro burins they don’t last as long do they you know me but anyway there’s a there’s no let let’s try and work on that anyway yeah I don’t know why we put all this in the video we’re just getting excited about talkers now but um so anyway um yeah I think we’ll have to uh there’s too much good stuff to talk about so we’ll we’ll get another one in down the line um if the podcast is going well and um yeah this been the kiss of death there’ll never be another one you’ll put this out and people will be like have you seen that [ __ ] page podcast it’s [ __ ] [ __ ] it just goes on and on and on and on and on yeah I’m not watching it again if somebody was going on a flight to California and they wanted to go to sleep perfect that’s it you You’ been mid midatlantic ocean you just you have just gone past Iceland and you’d be like have to wake wake them up when we get there oh God they ding LAX they’ be like straight to like Google [Laughter] therapy and thank you to Maya for I don’t yeah best best of luck best of luck thanks Alan thank you yeah I wouldn’t have a clue what to do if it wasn’t for Maya awesome so we’ll speak I’ll speak to you off camera offline and we’ll we’ll get these bikes sorted we’ll get the talkers sorted put to right but um hey thanks so much for today it’s been uh obviously I I um you know I’ve known you a long time and uh when I was a kid your team and your shop and you and everything was like unbelievable for me so um you know it made my my childhood amazing so uh well let’s do it all again yeah but thank thanks very much for your time today I’m really glad that you’re you’re feeling better and you’ve got over the worst of that um that that was uh not nice to hear when I heard about that and I’m sto stoky doing well and um just massive congrats on everything you’ve done Alan for uh for BMX and yourself and the shop and it’s it’s incredible needs to be more people like you Alan so thank thanks very much for your time and we’ll see you soon see you soon thank you everybody for listening I think this has been an incredible episode um I’ve Lov doing it and chatting with Alan um if you like the episode and the podcast please remember to like subscribe and do all that stuff um you can listen to the podcast on various channels if you look on the link on my Instagram and more on YouTube as well where you can see mine and Allan’s young beautiful faces um so yeah thanks very much and we’ll see you next time