Should dangerous cyclists be banned from driving? Feat. Nick Freeman & Narinder Kaur | Jeremy Vine

Last week the House of Commons backed an amendment to create three new offences for dangerous cyclists.

But now ‘Mr Loophole’ Nick Freeman wants to law to go even further.

He wants reckless cyclists to have their driving licences confiscated and to be subject to drink and drug testing.

Do you agree?

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last week the House of Commons backed an amendment to create three new offenses for Dangerous cyclists causing Serious injury by dangerous cycling is one causing death by careless or inconsiderate cycling is another Nick has quoted in the telegraph saying you want to see the law go further so this appears to have you saying that dangerous cyclist should be facing a driving ban so you take their car away essentially yeah take the driving license so what I would like to see Jeremy is if you commit an offense while cing you get exactly the same punishment as if you committed an offense in a car or a motor vehicle so there’s complete parity yeah but it’s not it’s not as dangerous on a bicycle is it because a bicycle is lighter you’re right absolutely I I couldn’t agree with you more having said that as you will be aware the number of pedestrians who are number one in the order of priority vulnerability um the figures in terms of the injuries a serious injuries being occasioned to them have risen by about a third since 20 um and that’s if you rely on the statistic from a small base so at the moment if you look at the official statistics in 2022 you’ve got 462 cyclists pedestrians who are seriously injured by cyclists so we’re not talking about an insignificant number and I completely Grant you um that the number of people injured in Motor Vehicles is much higher but if I said to you Jeremy you know um there aren’t that many cannibals in the country you wouldn’t say oh I tell you what you’re right let’s not criminalize it that’s a very good AR I would have said the analogy is probably like if if you got a knife a law to stop people waving knives around in public let’s also have a law to stop people waving spoons around in public because that can be dangerous as well not really not really ninda what do you think about this well I can’t I don’t know that I I agree with what you’re saying there needs to be tougher you know uh legislation against cyclists who are knocking people over killing them or injuring them however I don’t see the correlation between between cycling and driving I don’t know why they’re getting a driving B I mean I can’t understand someone bad I can see what the logic of it sure I’m against it if someone’s a bad cyclist they’re probably a bad driver no so no my my point is we we want the whole point of this is the legislation is to make the road safer so you have the crazy situation at the moment where you have speed limits for cars and the reason you have a speed limit mainly 20 in London is if God forbid you hit someone you’re less likely to injure them at 20 than you are at 30 and cyclists you don’t have that they can not the same argument right because a Cy to hit someone at 30 is far less likely to injure them than a car hitting them at 30 because the car is 10 times heavier yeah it is but forget cars for one moment and let’s just let’s just concentrate on cyclist if a cyclist hits someone at 20 or hits someone at 30 obviously at 30 he or she is much more L to injure The Pedestrian and what we’re mainly talking about here is preserving pedestrians so you know cyclists at the moment go on Pavements they go through red lights there’s no there’s no drink Drive limit there’s no drug Drive limit yeah not there’s not you know the most of them most of theming around most of them are psych responsib I mean look Jeremy to give it some perspective if you if you are convicted of dangerous dri killing someone while dangerous driving you now face life imprisonment okay there’ll be a tariff imposed but it’s life couped with Associated penalties if you if you kill someone whilst dangerous cycling so you’ve you’ve cycled dangerously as happened in that tragic case of Briggs yeah seven or eight years ago I understand I’m just giving you an illust straws here I’m not clutching such a long there’s one or two people who are killed every year there is no legislation in place to deal with it Are you seriously for that and why take it off the driving license cuz I can’t you could be a great driver listen just listen I I don’t understand what the difference is the point is you have to have legislation in place to make the road safer and you can’t say it’s like the cannibal argument yeah I hear that but I I suppose yeah I think I think precious few Resort I mean listen I cycle safely and I don’t go on Pavements and I don’t go cross red lights and so on um I just think that I see so much danger and 99% is from cars there are a million uninsured drivers can we get the police onto that but there’s a yes there’s a system hun we had an MP in in in Region’s part the other day with a speed camera looking for cyclist someone said to him how many cars did you see oh I wasn’t looking at it’s the case of how they’re dividing their resources cyclist does warrant some resource spent on it you can’t cycle with impunity say I do what I want that is true can’t cycle with impunity anyway there’s no case you mention the guy went to jail if he’d been driving a car he wouldn’t have gone to jail which case the Briggs case that you mentioned the tragic Briggs case where Charlie aliston he went to jail we under 1861 legislation what’s wrong with old laws it was for horse and carriage okay Sally and Devon what do you want to say about this Sally do we is Nick right that if if you catch a bad cyclist you take the driving license away no I think that bad cyclists should be um forced to do a cycling proficiency test and perhaps they should learn to uh learn about rules of the road I think that cyclist should be subject to all the rules of the roads just like car drivers or tractor drivers or anybody else speed Li and that every child in the country should learn um do a cycling proficiency test and the bike should be um donated so the schools own the bikes so that poor areas can have bikes cuz children gr have bikes and so that everybody we we were on the way from uh bable to bord we slowed down at a roundabout and we got cut up by cyclists who just dived in front of us as we come out of first thing and if we’d hit that cyclist who was riding very dangerously we get in trouble we were going about 5 miles an hour at the time because we come through a thing so do say you might not be a dangerous cyclist but you’re not very uh sensible when you’re riding your penny sing are you so I wouldn’t attack the penny fings I mean the idea the idea you ban Penny farings because drivers can’t drive safely that’s essentially what you’re saying there isn’t it it’s nothing to do with drivers all I’m saying is cyclists can be just as dangerous as people and they should be subject to the rules I’ve got no views on this of course I bet that I bet that fence is quite uncomfortable I bet he’s digging in a little bit well no I do listen thank you Sally I suppose the key thing about Sally in her car is that when that cyclist cut her car up she wasn’t in danger because cars have yeah yeah for sure you know what’s can I just say what perverse we now have a new highway code and if if a car overtakes a cyclist you’ve got to leave at least one and a half M AB okay what happens now is you’re cycling you’re driving in London and cyclists are going on your near side and your offside literally Ines from your car and they’re making themselves vulnerable they’re likely to get injured themselves we need to protect cycl the difference between standing on a Runway when a plane lands and walking past a Spitfire in a museum that’s the difference your your your story cyclist passing cars close is not as dangerous as cars passing cyclist close because the momentum is with the driver in the second if there’s a mistake there’s no margin of error the cyclist is so vulnerable the car station that’s why that’s why these statistics you can’t rely on these statistics Jeremy I think the thing is as a pedestrian some cyclists really are going let tell and I get a little bit scared if you take aund the last 100 deaths of pedestrians in on foot paths and Pavements 99 were caused by Motor Vehicles they shouldn’t even be there that’s the law the law is there to deal with that the law isn’t there to deal with the that’s my point this is the cannibal argument I mean I I hear I’ve got no response we everything let’s make it illegal to to to take a bee out of the air and stab somewh let’s make everything illegal we don’t it might not happen very often but there are hundreds thousands of cyclists who pedestrians who are seriously injured why haven’t we got a law against sharpening the the base of a plastic spoon and poking somebody’s ankle with it you know because that happens occasionally once David in the West Midlands what do you want to say hi hi Jeremy um well I think dangerous cyclist should be baned to be honest with you because do you know what I was walking down the uh pavement going into the town about a couple of months ago and this cyclist came flying uh past me on the on the pavement and he just brushed me shoulder now if he’d have hit me full on I’d have gone sprawling and it’s very annoying and and it should be annoying it’s illegal anyway it’s illegal anyway but what ticketed how well who was it that’s a different thing no it’s not because you because part of your law will be to have number plates right correct yeah okay so so so this situation we’ve just dealt with how do we deal with it um what’s your solution well you could put number plates on CY there are problem that I’ve actually just bought a number plate note of that with the registration I can’t I can’t work out where to attach it it’s massive right well no you you want one that’s suit for the of the car let’s put them on pedestrians as well to stop bank robberies cuz there’s usually already do you feel you can’t tell who they are Jeremy do you feel cyclists are being demonized for actually just something that’s there’s no problem here look the reality is this we have 1,700 deaths a year two are caused by cyclist what about serious injuries 28,000 serious injuries caused by Motor Vehicles what about serious pedestrians 460 it’s a lot more than that oh okay we’re just making no no well if you look if you read the research I’m just quoting your figure yeah okay let’s assume it’s just 46 is that an insignificant amount or does that warrant proper scale is everything it’s where’s the danger and the dangerous Motor Vehicles 10 times out of 10 and they’re deal I’m not but the cannibal argument is good I I I don’t I don’t have a respon it’s appeal to it’s really I like it as an argument and also look I tell you what let’s just some common ground here what really really cheeses me off is we’ve got a new type of bicycle now that’s not a bicycle and I bet you well I’ve got an ebike it’s limited to 15 mph these aren’t ebikes yeah correct these are electric motorbikes with pedals but I noticed these guys are doing 30 mph but they’re they’re motorbikes for law from legal perspective the law they’re in cycle lanes they’ve got pedal they think they’re cyclist they’re they motorbikes yeah they don’t have no plates do they I no no they don’t they should do so that then I think they’re illegal I think it’s terrible yeah absolutely and I think I think you’re going to have a Crackdown let’s try take some of them off the whole lot ebikes as well yeah but not the whole lot not pedal bike me chugging along at 11 mil don’t pick on Jeremy it’s like saying Jeremy it’s like saying any driver who’s completely responsible who never thwarts the speed limit he doesn’t need a number plate why would you need a number plate well I quite like that argument Billy wilcher hi hi Bill haing not so bad right okay so what would you like to do about cyclist um let’s let’s think of some well throw them into a very deep well I think they should be banned from driving if if if they if they break the law you know I I I live in Swindon so I go through the magic roundabout quite a lot and uh and um um there was a cyclist going through the middle between lines of traffic I I moved through because there was a gap he hit me and it was my fault yeah it would be yeah well you mve across fault it wasn’t my fault because there’s a clearly uh sign po posted cycle path around the the magic round about with a sign that that that encourages cyclists not to go through the that that place and and and and and they they ignored all that they were they were going they were going very fast between lines of traffic I wouldn’t there’s always if you do that there’s always a driver who will switch lanes suddenly but you know that’s life isn’t it you’ve being busted well you’re not busted you’re not the you can’t turn across a live Lane you what what L lanes are always live and sometimes you indicate to move across and and see if it’s clear yeah but and Cy should know oh there’s a car that’s stopped there maybe someone’s going to come I’m going to cycle more slowly they don’t do that they think I have a divine right to carry on be in mind when they do that and again I’m very careful with this it’s called The Gap of death you know if you if you see a gap the chances are cars about to move into it particular in a line of traffic you’re going alongside and two cars have left of space that’s so someone can go like that and when you go through it you’re going to get you cycle defensively and sensibly very defensively exactly but Jeremy we’re not talking really about you see it it must drive you mad even though you’re sitting on the fence it must drive you mad to see how cyclist cycle and think they’re not legally compliant and there’s nothing they’re giving cyclist good cyclist like you a bad reputation no not at all because I think those people if they were on cars everyone would die Damien and Kent hello hello how are you I’m well now you’re going to tell me that you think cyclist should be thrown off a cliff no not at all what I’m suggesting is where does the line draw because you have skateboards you have scooters you have E Scooters and now you have ebikes um none of which is governed and you could uh have an accident anywhere um my my only discrepancy with cyclist is when they ride fiber breast up the road um but otherwise I think cycling is perfectly fine but I don’t think it should be governed against your physical driving license well that’s the original and you got doubts with that as well whether they take the driving license away yeah because I don’t see the correlation I mean like he’s driving a car does it mean that he’s a bad cycl I know there’s got to be a punishment but I think it should just be on cycling I don’t know what the punishment at the moment for Dangerous cycling is a maximum 25,000 fine it’s nothing you know so when you’re racing round regions is that the new law or the old one no that’s the Old Law okay but the new one’s coming in that’s going to be like murder or something won we murder well it’s basically how would you like to see the law change I would like complete parity with motor vehicles and cyclists and E Scooters and ebikes so we’re sharing Road space it will make our roads much safer because if you say to a cyclist can I can I just put this to you J getting very upset here what makes people not hating on cyclist no one I don’t think it’s a matter of hate listen if you’re racing round Regent Park that’s dangerous so you have a duty as a cyclist to think oh goodness me there’s an old lady on the road she’s might she might cross I’m actually going to slow down it isn’t my right as happen in the recent case to say I’m going to carry on and that’s what’s happening because there’s no penalty there’s no deterrent it’s just yeah I I mean I agree with you on that that was a very very weird case and it’s interesting that whenever newspapers want to film speeding cyclist they always go to one Road in London which is region Park I was going to say that’s the example everyone they’re doing yeah it’s a RAC track that maybe they just need a law for that road maybe that’s the cannibal argument okay forgive me for a laps in impartiality there but the got the F’s got say you need to get stuck in here