Es gibt kaum einen Trainer, der die CrossFit Szene die letzen 15 Jahre so geprägt hat wie Dr. Kelly Starrett. Er ist der Erfinder des Wortes “Mobility Training”, mehrfacher New York Times Bestseller Author und Trainer der besten CrossFit Athleten und Olympioniken weltweit. Von 2005 bis 2020 war er außerdem Affiliate Owner einer der ersten 20 CrossFit Boxen auf der Welt – San Francisco CrossFit. Fun Fact: Kelly wurde in Deutschland geboren und spricht auch noch ein bisschen deutsch. Wir quatschen in dieser Folge natürlich über Mobility Training.
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of Mobility training as New York Times besteller a from becoming a leopard ready state [Music] cross to theix cross levate owner from Cross Kelly I think um for the people who are into CrossFit for several years they don’t really need an introduction to who you are as a person I think you’ve shaved the whole industry because you’re someone who’s around for I think it’s almost 20 years right almost I’ve been in Cross it for 20 years this year that’s correct it’s crazy time flies a lot of uh a lot of pull-ups yeah I I just uh funny enough when I uh when I drove home with a car two hours ago I listened to um your podcast with Annie Sakamoto and you talked about pull-ups and how your wife learned to do pull-ups and then she beat you in every workout this is gal it’s true um we uh you know the problem with being married to a world champion and a college rower is that she’s very very fit and uh as everyone knows you get all of your mitochondria from your mother and my mother did not have the same mitochondria as my mother-in-law so I’m always I’m always battling Juliet she’s an amazing athlete yeah I fully understand that my my wife she’s amazing as well so when we ever we do burpees together I can do one and she’s doing like 10 at the same time so I know exactly what you’re talking about true it’s true so I did a little a little bit of preparation for this today and I listened to your podcast for several years now and in I think it’s season 4 where you interviewed crossfitters or people from the CrossFit space who started very early on and you ask them about their history and I think for today’s conversation it would be very nice if you start with your history and your first introduction to CrossFit so can you remember your first crossfit workout uh the first Crosset workout was uh Cindy seemed very simple five Pull-Ups 10 push-ups 15 air squats just do that for 20 minutes and uh I was just crushed just devastated and I was doing that on an easy day I was training Olympic lifting in the in South San Francisco with the coach I was riding my bike thought I was very fit and um I wasn’t I got crushed I think I did 12 rounds and laid on the ground for 20 minutes afterwards in the days like I had you know all those air squats destroyed me then I did Fran because that was obviously a fluke and fr seemed so simple and that killed me and then I did Helen which is you know some running kettle bell swings and and some pull-ups and that destroyed me and I was like what’s going on here like this isn’t actually very much work and uh you know was it all in one week or I think was the time probably probably about you know a week you know 10 days where I was just like what is happening here you know this is so difficult and I think it’s easy to forget how the world has changed so much so when I first in CrossFit I was in a big Global gym and you couldn’t like they didn’t have kettle bell there you couldn’t buy a kettle bell in the city of San Francisco so a lot of these things you know were crazy I taught myself to Kip because I was like I have to be able to link more of these pull-ups together and when I showed up at my level one and I could Kip already I could link pull-ups everyone was shocked they’re like who who taught you that and I was like I had to teach myself otherwise I wasn’t going to get through these workouts doing singles you know so you know the world has changed and when we all started this 20 years ago no one was very fit no one was very strong no one was very skilled and now you know my 15-year-old daughter can snatch a Kett Bell like it’s nothing she can front squat you know my my it’s just the language that we now are so comfortable with this sort of higher intensity um has really changed and we’re starting to see now that if you give a couple decades of experience we really start to see athletes who are much more more coordinated comfortable with the the movement language and are able to now employ it and do a sport I think that was my critique of CrossFit has been that we evolved into a time where all we did was CrossFit and we stopped doing sports because we didn’t have time and we now tried to meet everyone’s needs in the gym instead of the original idea what’s this sort of minimum essential dose that I can actually go and play a sport or I can do something outside the gym so that was 2005 already or was it before you opened your AFF before so we started crossfitting in really 2004 so and your your affiliate was one of the the first Affiliates worldwide I think it was like in the top 50 right yeah we 21 correct me if I’m wrong oh wow that’s a long time actually yeah and you know um you know what is interesting there it was a really heavy time because we got to you know we were no one was really really good at powerlifting unless you’re a powerlifter so we were spending a lot of time with the powerlifters and Louis Simmons and Mark Bell and Jesse berdick and we were trying to figure out how are we integrating the best of powerlifting and at time we really thought that just being so brutally strong was the solution and then all of us were suddenly around all these Olympic lifters Dave Spitz um uh uh you know mikee bergner I just think sea Waxman some of the early pioneers in in our community um you know of course can’t forget Mark repo and and um and then we started to layer in sort of expertise in so of these other things and what was fun was that we were figuring things out and then there was enough of us and the world was small enough that we could communicate our findings it was like we discovered gold and someone would give us a new technique and we would go you know mind more gold and then we would share our gold with someone else and that was really just a radical radical time and ultimately you know I’m a young physio student at the time and I’m trying to understand what it means to be a physio student and I’m trying to understand sort of the real Essentials in all of these disciplines and that’s where I really ended up starting to think critically and developed our model for understanding human movement you know because what we’re seeing is that people didn’t have the range of motion to required to do these things they didn’t know how to care for themselves they didn’t know how to address pain they didn’t know how to you know prepare themselves and you know some things that we very much take for granted today you know people didn’t warm up very well you know they didn’t uh know how to scale things so you know the world has changed a lot in 20 years and and it’s getting better and we’re starting to still see that the coaches in today are so much more sophisticated than we were and they have to be because the general population has caught up a little bit you know what I mean yeah I totally know what you mean I mean some I think especially for my own training some things probably haven’t changed especially when it comes to warming up properly or focusing on Mobility training but that’s just from my perspective you know and that’s okay you know there’s some things that I think what’s happened is my critique of training is that we have seen physical culture really take root in the gym and the person it’s EO portal who really invented the idea of physical culture and physical culture is beautiful but its application towards Sports is maybe not so clear and most of us can’t spend two hours playing in the gym and what’s happened then is that the gym has become really uh a lry list of items I’m checking off just to meet all of the vitamins all the nutrients getting all the sunlights doing all the aerobic capacities doing all the strength and it’s really lost it’s it’s opportunity to play to innovate to iterate right to explore and experiment those things have really gone out of the gym when we should be using that gym as a time to feel better solve problems instead we think I have to get people going right away and I and they’re expecting a hard workout and all of these other things and we’ve lost some of the Mystique of the gym because it’s impossible to do all of those things in about so before I stumbled over a Mobility W which is like I don’t know I think I’m doing CrossFit for 12 years now has to be like 10 years I I’ve never heard of the word mobility and I think you’ve defined it tons of times already but it’s still very valuable for my community for the German community if you would like describe it in one or two minutes what did did you invent this word or did you just make it so popular in your own understanding in your own definition so what’s what’s the root of it so no one was using the word Mobility before we came on the scene they used flexibility right they use stretching which were really specific terms that meant some kind of pulling on the muscle right like I would stretch my hamstrings we didn’t think and systems approach to that so if I take a step back if you read uh that um one of the things that you’ll see is there are only two objective measures in that book the first one is your range of motion and that is really you can’t argue about what we expect the body to be able to do every Physician Group every right we all agree within about five degrees of how much the shoulder should move or how much rotation a joint should have so it’s pretty clear and most of the ranges like overhead is everyone agrees you know 180 degrees of motion so my end range of flexion is straight up and down the only so I have that objective measure and the only other objective measure I have is something we call biomotor output which means how do I use this system to create more wattage more Force more power for longer periods of time with less energy right that’s really what we’re talking about here so you can get away with a lot of really weird technique but what you’re doing there is sacrificing the biomotor output you’re not as efficient and one of the things that we’ll see for example is if we look at squatting you can squat in almost any position possible we see it every day in the gym we see it on the internet but squatting is low power low Force low speed but at high force and high speed you can’t squat like that you can’t jump like that you’ll die so we see that sometimes the positions that we are valuing may not transfer as effectively may not hold true under all conditions and so what we’re asking is what positions give us the most utility or the most useful under the most circumstances and have the most transfer and so suddenly that starts to winow down a lot of the some of the positions that people are exercising in because if it’s just about Fitness then we can just give everyone Blood Flow Restriction cffs and put them on a bike right we can give you steroids and give you some little loads and we are going to get in big muscles and that’s it but that’s not how we teach athletes that’s not how we ski faster it’s not how we bike faster it’s not how we run faster it’s not we go to the Olympics and so suddenly we what we have to put in there is a movement skill so really what we’re asking we say Mobility what I’m saying is do you have access to your range of motion can you express that range of motion with the technical ability that allows you to handle a most Force so that means learning that means skill I would also add can you do what you want to do with your body and in a painfree way so we use Mobility because you’re range of motion has clear goals we have clear end ranges what is complete and what is not complete not I’m just going to keep stretching forever and hope that my legs and you know that doesn’t work we have clear range of motion goals and if you read becoming a supper the first two-thirds of that is about how to move and how to apply all of these principles of movement into the formal Lang just right conditioning the last third of the book is really about what are some tools to help you get range of so you can do what you’re supposed to do so how do we go from active straight leg raise where I lay on my back and lift my leg up but really who cares about that that’s not a sport how can I hinge over on the bike so I can generate more force in the T France those are the same positions so for you who really like shave this word I think I mean this this whole concept of Mobility training is like is like your child right so during the last 15 or 20 years a lot of things have changed and now everybody does mobility training and everybody like I mean just look out there in the gyms not even CrossFit Gyms but everywhere there are Mobility classes everywhere so what are the the the mobility myths which annoys you the most is there anything that you constantly hear which you will like get a little bit angry when you hear it again well what’s what’s great is that people are suddenly thinking about position as part of the training language it really wasn’t part of the training language for a long time the reason you would do some soft tissue work is because you were in pain right and that’s a good reason to S S soft tissue work we have found that when I ask a group of athletes who’s pain free no one raises their hands so pain can’t be a medical problem the way we’ve been told it is so oh I I have schmeits I need to see the the doctor no that doesn’t happen athletes will continue to go and ignore that until they can’t do their job occupy their role in society be their role in their family right you just can’t do your sport you’ll keep playing so on the one hand what’s been great is suddenly that can be a really interesting way into giving people control over their bodies do we think about training and how it’s related to nutrition yes we think about training how it’s related to sleep yes well what is the fundamental root of training we’re taking positions that we value and we’re challenging your ability to manage those positions under load under cardiorespiratory demand under metabolic demand under speed demand under you know closed chain open chain demand other competitive demand open Torque closed torque hanging from a bar handling two uh dump Bells right uh block practice random practice changing G suddenly I can make it so hard that your basic squat falls apart and what I found is wow maybe the limits of your ability here wasn’t just your strength but it was your ability to manage all of these different components and still show me a decent Squat and when we look at that then what we’re really doing is saying here is a position we value that makes us strong that makes us durable that transfers to for into life and now I’m saying can you maintain the Integrity of that shape under all these different demands and our hypothesis has been this the hypothesis the person who’s the most effective at managing these different iterations of the shape under these different demands that athlete is more durable that athlete can learn new skills faster that athlete has more movement choice and more readily available movement Solutions so suddenly if we look at someone like France Bosch who I greatly admire he’s a Dutch coach he says resistance training is just coordination training with resistance right good strength training is just saying here is coordination training we’re going to put some resistance on that and suddenly that’s a beautiful way to think of why in the gym it’s not for big quads it’s not for big pecs although that’s nice it’s a side effect of the training but ultimately we’re looking for how can we create the best mover and if you’ve watched the great show on Netflix the physical 100 the Korean show the kid who always wins is a crossfitter the kid who usually gets second is a rugby player or an Olympic lifting Sprinter and there’s not an accident there because those capacities make for people who can solve movement problems efficiently everyone else may be obsessed with how you look and that’s great on the internet you’re not going to win a National Championship ship or set a world record doing those things and so we always are keeping our eyes on what’s the point what’s the purpose and the purpose can be to lose weight to have Community right to feel better to feel like I have confidence so but ultimately don’t pretend that all training is equal and that’s okay that it’s not all equal so what I’m seeing as we’re starting to put position forward in our training language is that means different things to people so people are like I’m working with Mobility I’m like no you’re just squatted that’s not working Mobility Mobility is specifically targeting some aspect of your range of motion so that you can then go Express that range of motion in something that matters like a training environment or an actual sport so you know it may be that’s useful to spend a lot of time moving in a way exposure is always the most important thing we can do this is why the very first video I made back in 2010 was the 10-minute Squad test because what I found was here’s this position all of these athletes are trying to spend time in and they’re not actually spending any time in that position so let’s make sure that the first thing we do is expose ourselves to the root positions of the things we’re doing now I learned that from yoga I learned that from you know watching the amount of time I did downward dog I learned that watching how many times my friends who were gyst were walking on their hands right I saw that we needed to spend some crucial time in these fundamental shapes because they were so important and that’s why we started with the squat test so when you talk about movements what movements you see especially in CrossFit where people have the most mobility issues really but what we’re seeing now is um that and generally in general population and most Athletics is that people are not getting enough hip extension so bringing the knee behind the butt so you you know everyone knows knees over toes guy but I want to be knee behind butt Guy this is my dream and that I want us all to obsess on having better hip extension and all the biking all of the hip hinging all of the squatting most of the jumping we’re doing it’s all in a flexed leg pattern where the knee is coming to chest and we’re not really doing much of knee behind butt maybe we jerk a little bit maybe we’re lunging but even our lunges really have the knee not in extension um we run but our running is terrible because we only run very short distances and so suddenly we see we have a hole that we’re creating in our training and that’s what we’re trying to do is ideally training you know and Greg Glassman talked about this is that we should be attacking our weaknesses right we should be going after things that we’re not very good at and if that may be a certain cardiorespiratory domain or maybe a strength piece if you have a big engine but what we should be looking at is what are my positional and movement blind spots as well so if you ask me to evaluate your warmup your cool down your Mobility work but more importantly your training I’m going to see where you’re spending your time in what positions and shapes you’re valuing and I can tell where you’re going to have problems based on the fact that you don’t have any sunlight in this part of the aquarium so over here you have these beautiful rain and nutrients and over here it’s like a desert and you’re wondering why you have desert related problems yeah I mean that makes sense right you’re only as strong as your weakest link well you know when we say that the problem is we don’t put position in that language right you know there’s a reason why skin the cat and dips and burpees and press and chaturanga is such a PO important part because we need to have this the arm be able to come into extension if I want to have a shoulder that works correctly if I’m not loading that position I’m never going to have a shoulder that does what a shoulder is supposed to do how many athletes we see who really struggle overhead and what I can tell is you’re not very competent overhead because you haven’t lived overhead but as soon as I give you pull-ups and handstands and kettle bells and dub bells and barbells and we’re overhead from a snatch we’re overhead from isometric hold we’re overhead hanging you’re going to see wow this is a position we really value because people who are confident overhead have less shoulder pain people are confident overhead have less neck problems people are confident overhead right have thoracic spines that function more effectively so what we can start to say is if I come into your training and this is worth a conversation what is essential in your movements what’s essential in training that human being should be exposed to we can then argue about well how often do I need to do that that’s legitimate argument and are there some positions I should really value because they’re very import to my sport that’s also worth talking about but for example my daughter who is a a Voss ball goalie you know she’s an incredible goalie she’s 15 you know yesterday we’re trying to do these little mini sessions of strength training at home before practice because the practice is so much and you know yesterday she does a little bit of warm-up and then she jumps into the front squat where just doing some basic linear progression work with her we add you know two kilos every single time we come in right and um in between it’s handstand okay and U coordination play right loading but we’re knowing that this is such an important position for her that we do a pullup or a handstand or something every day as part of her training because it’s so important to her as adult so what about you is there any specific movement which you’re not that good at which you everything I’m terrible at everything I have I don’t believe that I uh I’ve paddled in a couple World Championships I have paddled in three kinds of different national championships in paddling Sports um I love to move but really biking is my favorite sport and what I found is we my wife and I love to mountain bike is that I can never have lungs that are big enough I can never have an aerobic base that’s big enough it’s literally a sponge that is always thirsty so um you know at some point you know I turned 50 this year um and I can actually say I’m strong enough in some things so I don’t need to get stronger but I need to maintain the the exposure um to these positions and shapes I don’t want to get heavier I don’t want to get stronger what I want to do is be competent enough in these domains to maintain that strength and that’s a lot easier and it’s not into great privilege to say I think I’m strong enough and now I get to then turn my my brain on something and spend my time now developing these other capacities and that means I need to have the biggest set of lungs possible and that’s my mountain biking so I bike three to five days a week what distances uh it depends some sometimes they’re very garly intervals and a lot of times I’ll do a a brutal interval and then some kind of strike training in between so that’s a way that as an older adult I keep myself from getting hurt and by hurt I mean letting my ego get into problems right this allows me to maybe do you know a one minute two minute three minute piece and then maybe some strict pressing a one minute two minute three minute piece and then maybe it’s sets of pull-ups a one minute two minute three minute piece and maybe it’s power cleans what this it does it really allows me to say hey my mountain biking when I go ride can be zone two zone three zone four fun play I don’t really worry about it but I can take the week training when I’m not on the and I can be very disciplined about saying hey I haven’t spent time developing Peak wattage or I haven’t spent time doing these domains so it allows me to tweak and and play with the domains and then putting in a strength piece in there is a wonderful way to get a lot of work done so for me as a box owner I mean I’m doing this for eight years and I I saw a lot of people come and go and what’s usually the case is that they have limited amount of time where they can spend on their training and it’s always the thing where do I put my time is it strength is it endurance is it I mean CrossFit is a good combination of everything but still you have to you have to check where you put in your time so what would you say is there a ratio between how much strength how much endurance how much Mobility training is good or does it depend from Individual to individual well I think we can generally say you know people will have this conversation but they can’t do 10 pull-ups they have this conversation with they can’t do 10 push-ups they have this com they’re asking these questions and they can’t backs squat their body weight yet or right strict press you know you know 40 kilos so I think what we start to see is wow you really want to have this Nuance conversation but really it doesn’t matter because you’re terrible at everything and so I’m like just come to the gym and enjoy straight training two or three times a week during your when you’re really busy and then when you’re not really busy come five times a week and we can really start to develop these capacities and you know if you can only come to the gym twice a week that’s great because you should be coached then you better be swinging a kettle bell and doing these kinds of things at home and you know one of the things that we see is so important is that the training environment and more importantly the formal training environment is the place where we can talk about alcohol consumption nutrition sleep stress for our athletes so I’m wearing a tow water polo shirt So Cal Berkeley is the University right across and for the last year and a half I’ve been coaching the Women’s Water Polo team last Sunday we competed in the national championships so what’s we lost but it was still we haven’t been there in a long time and um what is important though is that through training we now have a lens of understanding all the other critical behaviors that make us really good people that make us very durable people and that’s one of the reasons why the training environment is so important so we can talk about body composition here we can talk about fears here we can talk about low sty of control who owns this training experience we can set people up to say hey I don’t want to spend 10 minutes foone rolling in the gym do that at home in front of your TV instead today let’s work on some skills because we’re in the gym so what can we get out of the gym right like we try to have our athletes in the morning do a hip spin up do a shoulder spin up or do the breast spin up you get one of three choices in the morning if you’re one of my athletes then we try to have you move during the day walk as much as possible eat the best food you can if you can train do it then in the evening let’s spend 10 minutes of some soft tissue down regulation time in front of the TV while we’re sitting on the ground and suddenly that’s a pretty complete program that’s a program that we can really make a lot of gains with and start to solve pain problems start to develop capacities and what we do there is we’re starting to say hey out of this training if I do these morning things and evening things my training will go better right because we’re always through the lens of how do we get more work done with the available human in front of us but if you don’t train suddenly training is now helping you to live a better life where we are decongesting and we’re getting enough micronutrients and we’re getting enough protein and we get sunshine and we have Community right so there’s so many opportunities for us to improve some of those things but again through the lens of training so people tell me I’m like you still need to come to the gy even once a week so good thing about CrossFit and strength training is that if you hit certain numbers I mean you just said squatting your body weight or doing 10 pull-ups or for example bench press your body weight I mean there’s certain numbers where you would say okay this person is strong enough and if he or she can maintain their strength that’s good but is there something in uh in the mobility language where you can like check this box okay this is enough shoulder flexion and extension is there something that I can like check the box where I can see in my training okay I think I don’t have to work on my overhead Mobility it’s good enough I can focus on something else while um I’m having this issue and this conversation with a lot of athletes who focus on stuff that doesn’t really push the needle they’re so focused on the little things instead of like looking at the bigger picture yes and what we should be saying is we’re not training every single body part every day so if I’m training I can take one of the movements that I’m looking at for today and I can look at the start position or the finish position of that movement and I can ask because now if I ask is that range of motion complete now the stimulus or training is is also the diagnostic tool and so what I’m trying to do is understand who you are today when you showed up have a baby run a marathon take an overnight light let’s measure your hamstrings I guarantee you they’re gonna show incomplete range so let me give you an example I have a as I said my young daughter is 15 she’s incredible she’s 5 feet 11 she’s almost six feet tall she’s very tall she’s still growing she’s a high school kid playing a sport and her range of motion changes a lot and sometimes she has excellent range of motion and sometimes she doesn’t but because we have this training language we now have a way of understanding how her range of motion and her access to her range of motion changes from week to week from month to month right and we can start to say hey here’s where we’re going to focus because these things are starting to go out so every day we train we look at one position maybe if our front’s squatting then we’re looking at hip flexion today maybe if it’s where limpid lifting we’re looking at dors of flection today maybe if we’re pressing today we’re looking at the overhead position maybe if it’s lots of push-ups it’s shoulder extension in the short lever so what’s nice then is that we suddenly have a model to really understand what’s happening and to program to that position every day and you’re absolutely right there’s a reason why we have a Mobility test on app so that athletes can begin to understand their movement minimums and hopefully see those movement minimums in the context of the training we’re doing but people don’t the first time they ask the question do I have access to range of motion is never even when they have pain they don’t ask do I have complete range of motion here or not and so suddenly you might discover that it’s never a problem to go overhead you always have that sometimes it’s stiffer but you always have an internal rotation problem and so that’s something that we’re going to have to just keep our eye on may do two times a week to work on that inter rotation so suddenly that makes your programming very simple at home or you can just wait around and say what’s sore what hurts how can I make myself feel better and restore my position that’s fun too but just less effective so during the last years you’ve worked with a lot of pro athletes in what kind of sport you see the most mobility issues except from Crossfit um you know it’s interesting to see the best crossers in the world um mados I worked with last year um uh talk with Jeff Adler I’ll get on the phone you know Yami tienan is one of my best friends um you know he coaches Annie um and amazing people uh Rich roning I’ve known forever um Jason Kip is a good friend the we’ll see that um cross hitters are some of the best athletes on the plan Planet because they have to work on their position so much to maintain their shapes um you can see sometimes their output doesn’t show you all of the work that they’re doing on the inside look at how much Tia works on her shapes and positions look at how um Rebecca fouser you know um is managing her shapes and positions and [ __ ] and so what we see is that these athletes are constantly working on blood flow they’re looking on range of they’re keeping an eye on stiffness through range um each sport will have its unique pattern of movement dysfunction so I’m wearing a San Francisco 49ers hat they use our model in the program um I go and work with them the football the offense looks different than the defense our water polo players look different than our volleyball players um the pro golfers I work with look different than the you know the Cy we work with or so every team will have its unique imprint because the demands of the sport will make the body do some things and that will create opportunities or blind spots in the shapes that we’re not trying to to manage and again what we start to have to add in is it may be impossible for the athlete to ever have complete range of motion given the volume in their sport but we can always be programming towards restoring range of motion and then when the season’s over we can start to make more gains so it’s not that we’re just minimizing but we’re saying look if you’re a tour to friend cyclist or you’re a world class mountain biker it may be that you’re always having to work on hip extension because of the wattage and the time you’re spending in this Flex position so let’s make sure that we’re at least keeping a minimum on it and develop a minimum where we start to see hey when you start to fall below that minimum we see changes in wattage and you start to see pain problems and so we really start to see that it’s a lot more sophisticated than just mobilize every but again what we’re interested in is saying how can we have gpp General physical preparedness for adults so they don’t have pain and can feel better move better look better naked and then how can we also reapply these same principles to actual sports like the University of Michigan football where are we putting in stop tissue recovery into the national championship so that’s you know we’re always this isn’t hypothetical one of the things that’s very different about our model than some of the other recovery yoga models out there is that we actually work in professional sports and you can layer in our model on top of the training that the coaches think is best for their athletes and so suddenly now we have a model that under explains current phenomenon predicts future movement phenomenon right and allows us to communicate across any environment any platform any movement series I have swimmers at the Olympics I have Bob slitters at the Olympics I’ll have mountain biker at the Olympics I’ll have water polo players at the Olympics like we have we have so many sports that we’re using and working in but the shoulder is still the shoulder so in the beginning you you said that the sport of CrossFit has evolved during the last 15 and 20 years and in the beginning Greg lman I mean the center that was always get better at sports so you’re using this kind of Fitness which you develop in order to get better at life and at other sports and now CrossFit has evolved to its own competition kind of sport so people are training CrossFit to get better at CrossFit to stay in the gym and although I kind of like it I still feel a lot of people they don’t really understand the application of it so you just you don’t train two hours in the gym to go there the next day to train another two hours you train there in order to do other amazing stuff so if you could like go back 20 years in time and you could like reinvent the sport in a different direction would you change something with the knowledge of how it turned out now or would you just keep it the same the the amazing thing about the CrossFit Games is that we learned so much about training athletes about nutrition and energy systems because it was such an incredible capacity in ability what we started to see was that when athletes got tired their positions got better we started to see that in people like Rich Froning and Tia and Annie and that the inefficiency really you could do it for a day or so but you couldn’t do it for four days right you could do it for a single workout but you couldn’t do it for single workouts across multiple domains so what we started to learn was well that ended up being a very important teaching so if I use Yami tikin for example who is the CEO and founder of the training plan um he’s been coaching Annie and a whole bunch of other athletes for um forever um I would say he is one of the most sophisticated coaches in any sport I know he is maybe the best coach on the planet that no one knows about in terms of his understanding of part rate variability and recovery and training and breathing and Rhythm and volume you know it’s really remarkable so the games evolved as its own thing but it’s just like asking is it important that we have Olympic lifting in the Olympics or can I also Olympic lift because it makes me better at my Sport and so what we’ll see is very specialized athletes who are really good at the CrossFit games but then what we need to ask ourselves is what’s essential here so that we can go do Sports and I think with the Advent of the internet and fitness internet which is insane um very confusing um I would say that uh everyone it’s easy to lose what’s important because anyone has a phone and everyone is an expert but ultimately the reason we want to make sure that we’re keeping our eye on sport is because then we can really start to have important measurements that allow us to see what is the best and I think if it just became about who looks best in the gym then that’s like saying my car has the biggest engine but we’re never going to race but my car has the biggest engine and it doesn’t really matter I like this kind of conclusion in this kind of comparison I think everyone understands it and well I was say one of the things about CrossFit that was a problem is that it oftentimes took our best athletes and made them look terrible right because they hadn’t memorized all the dance steps and yet that athlete turns out to be be the best athlete in the world and when we take the best athlete in the world and we say hey let’s let’s improve your movement competency let’s increase your movement language let’s give you more choice and some more capacities here we suddenly learn that wow if I had some athletes whose upper body could manage lactate a little bit better then their lower body could work harder because their upper body could be a sinkhole for some of that lactate right and there’s an example of boy it was really useful to put this run on give her a kettle bell make her new pull-ups or ring rows and be on the assault bike because what we had is an athlete who can now perform more work who cares if she’s [ __ ] good at kettle bells and that doesn’t matter what we want to do is say is are you getting better at the prime thing you’re trying to get better at and I think that’s where we lose our minds a little bit and it’s okay it’s okay that’s it’s a feature not a butg we just have to remind ourselves the point of all this is to do something else that’s a a good word a good conclusion in the end Kelly thanks a lot for your time I really appreciate it that you took one hour out of your day to do this interview with me and uh I hope that next time you’re in Germany maybe we can meet I mean last time or the six years ago you you’ve been there for like a whole month right you’ve spent a lot of time in Germany yes we need to have a training camp there I’m running this first training camp in July uh June 1st and 2nd in Milan but I want to start to have more training camps and maybe we need to have more uh a training camp with you we should do it in Germany for sure so whenever you you feel like you need something in Germany and some one where you can do this training camp let me know we’re in the middle of Germany very close to Frankfurt airport so it’s very good location and uh I would be honored three words broad site that’s all you need to know as long as we can have broad site it’s going to be just fine you can have spla and everything you want so I can I can take care of it it’s no problem have bread for you I know you like I know you like bread right of course I do well thank you so much for today I appreciate it yeah I really appreciate it Kelly uh I hope to see you soon and have a great day [Music]