LDS Apostle Dale G. Renlund Answers the TOUGH Questions!

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Original Meeting

https://uk.churchofjesuschrist.org/devotional-for-sisters-with-elder-dale-g-renlund?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR2w8iE1da64-S-fMJJN_Aq8A66livyZcc4ZDWr55X4iUQ3v6nLzJF97vvw_aem_AXw0UzHAq6omPeMKs56LyOCc3XOZ4t080zbeiIyyrWB1uqaubHN0rsmKMGZ2MZ5-5kLdRn6LdmzoAi_MvbhKRSCG

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The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video. The Original Meeting was publicly accessible, with no password required, hosted on both YouTube and Via Zoom. This makes it a public meeting and therefore commentary on what was said is in the public interest.

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[Music] ladies and Gentlemen please silence your phones and hush your babies the show is about to [Music] start hi everyone uh let’s try that again shall we I’ve just spent the past couple of minutes talking to no one because I forgot to press the button that says go live so here we are my inability to use the technology aside let’s talk tonight about a couple of question answer sessions uh that through the miracle of Technology we were able to witness the church had Apostle Dale G renland with us at Hyde Park Chapel in front of most of the uh reorganized Stakes around the London area speaking publicly via YouTube and a zoom link that was open to anyone this was a very publicly open meeting so we are going to provide our commentary and critique of what was said uh as it is in the public interest and we will also be referencing And discussing a uh meeting that was had in centry stake meetings that have been held there of this type for a while now where they try and answer people’s difficult questions concerns Etc uh it’s a really positive thing that the commentary stake has been doing for a while now and we want to sit here and praise it a little bit and we had someone that was there in person who will give us all the details a little bit later on but we’re going to start with the Apostle because you know he’s the big ticket item and to help me do that I have a couple of the Brit vengers with me um right here we go it’s let’s let’s get it going right hello both hello hello old chap how are you hello hello I’m stressed if I’m honest I was I the moment the meeting ended I’m there trying to cut up clips and get stuff ready so that you beautiful people can see exactly what it is that we’re talking about tonight um in this like I said very public meeting um and I think the public nature of it can’t be overstated enough because this wasn’t something that is said behind closed doors with just a few leaders this was said to a large view they said 400 people through YouTube I think they said at one point um to over well over a 100 people in the room there uh so yeah it was it was a lot but I think it’s interesting that this is almost three years since we had maybe two and a half years since we had our British rescue in part Chapel with uh three Apostles turning up um which you know the church sent me snotty uh letters from their lawyer and I got my first taste of what it’s like to kind of go to to bat with the church a little bit so um you know I’ve got smarter and wiser since then uh I think so anyway um yeah it’s interesting that actually I think this is going to have more impact than what Keith Ericson did when he was wandering around in early 20 22 kind of just jabbering away and and I still never forget how dismissive he was of my question because I phrased it in a way that he didn’t like I said there was a paper that came out of BYU like well um universities don’t publish papers individuals do I was like oh all right Keith cool you’re gonna now answer the substance of my question please and thank you I’m not bitter about it at all uh and um clearly not before that in November 2021 uh there was the three apostles who spoke at high par chapel and all this sort of stuff uh so yeah I think now two and a half years later the renan come back to try and extend the British rescue see if they can do a bit more and I have to say no spoilers but I feel like some of what they said might actually help some people so if you came here for stuff that’s just critical of the church nothing positive see you later because we’re gonna say some positive things tonight if I can stop scratching my eye um people please Rescue Me For Myself let’s let’s start talking about this is that is that that he’s lying or something I feel like I’m going to have some just if what you’re here for is criticism it’s okay I got you covered we can do that too I’m not saying it won’t be there I was saying if you’re here for nothing but that we we might have some good things to say as well sorry I am well excited this is going to be interesting yeah I do genuinely think I have something in my eye um which I’m aware of the irony many people in the comments tell me to get the beam out of my own eye before I no no no Nemo it’s a fe it’s a feeling we’re middle class British you don’t understand you’re having a feeling I’m having a feeling squash it squash it down no need to go and rub your eye for a moment like what I what I think it is important to acknowledge because because you never do this Nemo is that you’ve been working super hard on this I like this is been I I I mean you’re shaking your head but this was really quite sort of last minute for for you to do we don’t know what’s going to happen until it’s being said you’re making all of those arrangements you’re getting the gang together you you know you’re you’re coordinating time notes you’re you’re doing all of that stuff and and also this is your personal journey is involved in this too so I just want to acknowledge the really hard work that you put in and remind everyone that you can make a donation well thanks Jane because what that has done is it has Ked you can’t cry after that and wash it out nothing will work that’s kicked off the British part of me now that will shut down all emotion and refuse to believe nice things about myself uh let’s talk about Ren shall we um yourself together man yes so renan started with a story of uh when he he and his wife went to the uh British museum to look for the Magna carter now for the Americans to the audience who don’t know the Magna Cart is kind of like your Constitution but so old that we’ve done a lot since then uh it was a legal document uh from what is it the 1200s Peter 1215 Magna carter something like that I want to say I’ve been to runny me but I can’t remember the dates sorry but but it was essentially the king trying to make all these feudal land owners Happy by essentially giving them rights and uh yeah then we end up with the mag ter terrible mistake indeed uh but anyway so renland wanted to go have a look at it and him and his wife were in the British Museum and they saw a load of people around a table and they thought that must be where it is and they uh were wandering around and know they saw that the magnata was actually you know on a wall somewhere so they thought what are all these people looking at and they went over and they saw that they were looking at on the back of a napkin uh the words to a Beatle song which one was it must be love let it be something like that one of those right I don’t know if he did he specify I think it was just he might he did yeah but anyway it was a Beatles song right do we really care um they’re only a National Treasure so uh The Beatles uh song was there and he then I predicted it before he said it I said oh this is going to be a talk about where our focus is blah blah blah and sure enough this is what he said times we focus on the wrong things yeah called it called it straight away is that he was like yeah no that’s it sometimes we focus on the wrong things and you know what that made me think of guys it made me think of the temple and it made me think of the church’s stupid obsession with the height of a steeple I believe that is the very definition of what the book of M would call looking Beyond The Mark I think focusing so much on the height of the steeple it’s just nonsense it’s never mattered to anyone I’ll have more to say about that in the in you know coming days and weeks but yeah he’s on a roll still yeah nonsense anyway so uh let’s let’s carry on let’s add some things and Peter can fill Peter what did you think of his initial sort of opening remarks I thought he was good so we we have here D renland and his wife spoke um we also had um sister Linda Shepard um who will come too who is uh one of these new area advisors so they’re they’re experimenting in Europe by having women at the level of area Authority effectively SE area 70 um who who kind of supervis do training for for Relief Society and and occasionally we’ve worked out not very often meets with the area presidency so she’s quite significant she’s like a a prototype female middle level General Authority um so that was fantastic and we also had um brother and sister boom who he is the again like the president of our area um yeah who who did the first wave of actually turning up to shut down or merge these stakes in the London area and the Maidstone steak that I grew up in this is his first sort of big return yeah after devastating our Stakes so they were the key speakers um and it was it began with the me doing a general sort of fluffy address where they talked about what sounded you know was mostly fairly generic stuff and then in the last 45 minutes they dealt with questions that been submitted earlier so there were a few moments of Interest sort of from those earlier addresses but the real a lot of the real meat came a bit later with the Q&A can we talk about um his his kind of Rec recollection of the events around Nelson becoming president of the church because I think this was interesting and it’ll be good to have out there you know um yeah at this moment in time the church’s live stream is still available on YouTube the link is in the description so if you want to go watch that video for yourself and want to watch this whole thing it’s in the description um but you know these things the church after 24 hours they they can sometimes has be known to get rid of them soapp we want to keep this there J yeah so so so this sorry go on Jane so um yeah I was my wife kills me if I interrupt you Jane I mean my life is in danger here so I’m very jumpy if he says Jane I have to like we we have a little delay going on usually and then the audience yell at Nemo for talking over Peter and then Lynn yells at Peter for talk yeah it it’s all good we’re all good people um I guess I wanted to just reemphasize that this was specifically was a Relief Society special meeting I think most of the Relief Society uh most of the Ws and Stakes I think in the UK didn’t really know that this was happening if it so was very much sort of down in the region where it was happening it was promoted which is really disappointing because lots of people needed to hear the content um and then for those of you who don’t tend to attend Relief Society meetings at all the boys in the room um what they do every time as they will point out there is uh what they’re going to talk about is almost gender neutral there is there’s no sort of gender specific things they’re going to be talking about and then they’re going to talk about priesthood issues and motherhood issues so it is actually very gender specific but they try really hard to make it not and I think it’s addressing the fact that this has been presided over by men and that the first speakers we we’re hearing from you know the first people we hear and speaking are men but you know it was advertised on the church the church website and it was indeed yeah and I would like to to give shouts uh lordings and praisings to Hoy Rock who said isn’t it he and his wife I think I said him and his wife maybe um I thought they all spoke English I appreciate a snarky and picity correction of someone’s grammar as much as the next person thank you very much indeed ho Rock keep me on the straight and are the best Na and we’re cancelled right so here is renland talking about January 14th of 2018 the remaining ordained 13 living Apostles assembled on the fourth floor of the of the uh Salt Lake Temple and we came fasting and praying and I confess I would have trusted the process to be right but something different happened than I expected each apostle was asked in turn should the first presidency be reorganized and if so who should be the president of the church after everyone had spoken uh it was unanimous that the first presidency should be reorganized and that Russell Nelson should be the president of the Church a chair was placed in the middle of the room and the remaining 12 Apostles stood in a circle around him each of us with a hand on his head and an arm on the shoulder of the Apostle next to us and D Oaks acting as voice began to set apart and ordain president Nelson and as he said the words Russell Marian Nelson there was an overwhelmingly powerful spirit that came into that room room that I can only describe as Pentecostal it filled me with joy from head to toe it was this powerful witness that I had my hand on the prophet of God I wish you all could have been there you couldn’t so the best I can do is share with you that Russell Nelson is God’s Prophet on the Earth today and the Lord doesn’t want to keep it a secret you can know the same thing yeah so I mean we could have been there we could have yeah um and we could have all been witness to it we yeah he said God’s not hiding it from could have been done in the conference center right because Community of Christ do all their ordinations publicly via live stream in the in the conference center that they have right Jane yeah right so yeah I could have been done any other context here of course yeah is as we’ve discussed many times before this was all done in secret there was no sustaining or opposing vote first there was no seeking of common consent it was in violation of doctrine of Covenant 2052 or whatever the vers is which says that no one should be ordained to any office in the church without a vote of the people first um so this was all you know amongst themselves so of course they felt good they were in the special room where the secret special thing is happening um it’s it’s and he said he would trust the process the process being automatically the oldest serving Apostle becomes the next Prophet he’s trying to add some kind of gift of Prophecy and Revelation thing to some to an ordinance they’d already started before he had that witness you know and that really powerful experience and that should be something we all experience when they present his name to us for a sustaining opposing vote before ordinate ordaining these people and then only telling us about it the next day you know there’s so many messed up things about this ask you about this because you always talk about the um the the possibilities for the church and the big ideas and the things that make you really excited what if we explored that idea that he presented he wanted to or he was comfortable trusting the process he shows up to trust the process that’s what most active latter Des SS are done shown up and trusting the process if someone had have suggested to him like have you thought about maybe doing things a little bit differently the resistance to that that would naturally come up but it happened and it happened differently and he was able to you know he he would describe it as a testimony he’s a testimony of this it’s Pentecostal all of these wonderful things are happening wouldn’t it be incredible to see a risk-taking church like that you know risk-taking people like that you’re in leadership you should be having these experiences all the time you have to be able to take risks if you in leadership and then the other big thing for me is who asked you know like you know someone asks if they should really who who asked you that question I we can speculate Jesus well was it Jesus was it a lawyer was it was was it a cleaner outside in the temple was it what what happened there because we don’t actually know what that process was and that would be that would be really exciting to know about um yeah we we could and I doubt his wife was there I mean that’s something we you know was his wife just like with Patrick K really significant moment so Patrick Kieran described his his call to be an apostle outside of the usual cycle of being um sustained first in a general conference and he was just told we’ve called you he said yes he didn’t even ask his wife first which I think talked about his experience he did first yeah sorry well the handbook says that you should consult with the spouse of the individual who is um who is being called essentially so I don’t understand why the handbook applies to us but not to them and that seems to be the double standard I’m sorry I have to just get to get to ask that right okay when we’re thinking of the who asked the person who would have been in authority that time am I right in say was Russell and Nelson yeah would it be him he was a senior member the organiz this is that like who would have had the authority to ask that question and you know unless Jesus himself is is he suggesting this reorganization h on yeah yeah it’s it’s so in the favor of the presiding M of the so his wife wasn’t consulted and then they shuffled him off straight away to be ordained as an apostle with no vote without even asking his wife Patrick Kiran and he’s been doing that for months until the April conference when he was finally sustained retrospectively and and every time you I discuss this people they’re all like well you know there’s these sort of exceptions you can ordain an elder in the stake and then vote retrospectively vote later which shouldn’t happen this would never happen with a bishop this is the process trust the process you would a bishop would be presented in Ward conference to the ward they’re going to preside over for a sustaining or opposing vote before they would ever be set apart or a state president you know so again it’s this complete inconsistency in how these people get to be a little Club amongst themselves they’ve got their system down they used to be able to go for years in between ordaining a new Prophet if they wanted to that the apostles would draw I think it basically comes down to the fact that financially the church is a corporation soul in the name of the president of the church so they have to have an immediate instant succession that occurs straight away with no faffing because of the money and that’s a tail wagging the dog against common consent because they’ve put the president of the church as the sole owner of all the assets of the church right I’m going to cut you off there Peter to do Financial yeah let’s move on because if people want to hear more what Peter and I have to say about common consent we have done other videos on it so make sure you go and watch those um the next video is uh sister renland talking about how capes are important to superheroes and I think this is this is showing how they and and and I wish they would do this more on these slightly more intimate you know but yet still public uh meetings they will be a bit more than themselves they’ll show a little bit more character they’ll uh be a little bit more humorous and I wish we had more of it a general conference to be honest I wish they were this personable at General Conference and I think this is why we should let the wives of Apostles speak more often um so let’s grab this clip up real quick here we go so that is this one okay my observation Super Heroes Have generally have one thing in common and that is a cape a superhero cape so tonight all the way from my home in Salt Lake I brought the closest thing I have to to a superhero cape to to show you tonight so so you can see that really as I’ve come to understand it an apron is a super superhero cape on backwards because we all know that it takes real superpowers to conjure up dinner every night right Peter you are not allowed to speak until Jane has spoken on that one right okay so she is a complete delight and in many ways what she was talking about was was perfect funnily enough Wonder Woman so many particularly more and women have had sacred experiences with that first movie um genuinely sacred um it was an apron it was an apron I mean I like I get where you’re going with it but oh my my heart um so we we we fall back on women mothers are superheroes you are so wonderful rhetoric no we’re bloody not we’re women who need help and we struggle and it would be really nice to see us coming down off that pedestal that said I love what she was doing I love the humor the realness but you were a woman standing in front of other women wearing an apron and I don’t like what that did she uh yeah she she was a delight but I feel like everything that she was saying I wanted to push back I wanted to ask her for more and I feel like if it was a face to face I feel like if um like the other confer like the other question and answer session that happened in the state we’re going to talk about later if there were opportunities to do that I think she would have more fully and satisfactory answered some of those questions um we got a few great comments and I want to encourage people to keep sending a great comments we’ve got some SAS from face monkey TV what is that apron you’re wearing um very good Temple reference there uh then Jacob sham was saying not all heroes where Cap some live in the kitchen what that seems to be kind of the vibe of what she was saying um and then we had uh cocoe saying that they watched the king going back to the Nelson thing they watch the king of England be coronated why can’t they watch the king of my church coronated very good point um and if you sell it to RL else in that way he is a man who likes being the center of attention just think of the birthday party he will throw himself 100 right so I if there was a precedent for it actually maybe we should try and convince him that it should be a coronation from now on and then the final one that I really want to point out because I love pettiness as we’ve learned already Bergman says this is really Petty but they did a while back ask us to not use object lessons across the pulpit um if you got a citation for that bugman please throw it in the comments and I’ll I’ll try and make sure I I catch it um so can I also just point out something that I think is really cool especially as we you know we did talk about this earlier on and and this this didn’t come up but I think it’s really awesome that neither in the chat nor in the conversation tonight is anyone talking about Wonder Woman and modesty because I think I think some people would have went kickass about it um it’s the fact that that isn’t being mentioned right now I really appreciate and I love it so good job people I I’ll avoid it um Peter I’m going to bring you in to talk about this next one which uh is on the apron theme still uh so but you want this one no no no wait yeah give all your comments the second superpower I’d like to talk about is the power to connect to Heaven that’s the source of our power when we disconnect from that we’re really just apron wearing women all right discuss Peter uh it’s the renins love of visual age you know they did that disastrous face-to-face thing where they had animations made just insulting people who have faith crisis with the whacka mall with their questions and the little boy in the boat um who was told stay in the Leaky terrible boat of of our church rather than get out and walk to shore himself or whatever um and so I I love that they keep trying with this and um and they’re kind of charming there is primary voice going on but hey um but also it’s just like again this is the place of women in the church you at home making all the dinners um which um I’m delighted for my wife to do as much as possible just for both of our own safety and health um but and she’s amazing at it so in a way I love it because it is acknowledging the reality of of women’s lives generally in or out of the church they usually end up doing taking responsibility for meals and hom making and all the rest of it by default um for terrible patriarchal reasons um and it’s acknowledging that but also it’s it’s just tweet it’s it’s yeah it’s um Jane makes great soup um but it’s but I also respect her as a person um but the you’ve got but it’s it’s just so tone death for like the Modern Age It’s not feminist at all even slightly um and again it’s if we’re disconnected from Heavenly pal we’re just apron wearing women which kind of is a bit demeaning about women in a sense if you’re not a Mormon woman you’re just an apron wearing woman I don’t know there’s lots of issues around all of that um but I love that they’re trying and trying to have a sense of humor and we just watched her do a whole talk wearing a kitchen apron um great experiment perform do things to yes just make this interesting it gives us things to think about um made the mode of Incredibles Fame have a thing or two to say I was you yeah got yeah that’s exactly what I was going to say because it will fall on its ass it doesn’t actually work I appreciate the sentiment what would have been wonderful you’re speaking to a group of women specifically if you had have spoken about what those gender rules mean about the fact that that apron represents a lot of things it represents the emotional labor the the giving responsibilities the choices we have to make those mixed messages we keep getting I mean we we could go into so much about the how labor became divided by gender and that that isn’t universally true that sometimes everyone is pitching in um in in many societies historically none of that it it got boiled down to just a really unfortunate it just dead in land but Round of Applause to her for doing it where I got really disappointed and want to so are you going to are you going to cover her challenges moment where she talks about challenges and she she has the audience I wasn’t going to talk about the whole myopic thing with the fist no but please describe to it just really quickly so it’s um she gets the audience moving she has everyone stand up and have a little stretch which is nice you’re cons you know she’s she knows there’s reasons why that is actually a really helpful thing to do um she then does this object lesson you know with in front if you hold your fist in front of your face and we’re already there we know the point is if you’re looking too closely at the thing right in front of your face then you know you need to be keeping a perspective and if you look up then you’re GNA now here’s my problem with that she describes this fist in front of your face she describes that as being challenges uh what’s that word challenges annoyances pet peev pet peeves all three things challenges annoyances and pet peeves and I want to just really emphasize some of some of this because yeah that’s valid um it’s it’s not great it’s a coping strategy to sort of look at priorities look at the bigger picture look around it’s also it can be a little bit aess because if there is literally something that is restricting your vision then you have to focus on the thing that’s restricting your vision and have it removed sometimes this is a this is a very real issue for people but most importantly you don’t get to bring some of the issues that people are actually having that sometimes a pet peeve is different from I can’t go to church anymore because I trusted them and they have abused my child that is not the same thing and you don’t get to put those three things in the same category yeah sometimes we’re going to get annoyed and I get that it’s in a whole other Spectrum from people who have experienced um you you know who have not been made to feel welcome because they are gay this isn’t just a shift and perspective that’s needed there are institutional problems that’s more than about your perspective yeah and and I think it’s teaching a level of passiveness uh in people to say oh there’s a problem in your way just look around just ignore it just move past it focus on the other things yeah it’s like well no sometimes you have to because it’s it’s about controlling what you can control and learning to what’s the Serenity Prayer right uh Grace to accept the things that I cannot control um but you can be a part of changing things and so you know if if if you so feel inclined you should do that sort of thing um can we move to the question and answer section because I think that’s what we’re all here for um and before we do that that’s when I ask you all to make lovely kind donations um which there should be a donor box Link in the description if there’s not I’ll put put that in there in a moment um and some very exciting things are coming in the next few weeks that’s all I’m going to say so you’re going to want to be around and if you want to help those things happen and support me in those things send me money or subscribe or you’re definitely going to want to subscribe the the thing you’re going to want to do the most is subscribe and press the little bell icon so that you’re notified when new videos come out because you you’re going to want to see what’s coming up in the next few weeks honestly it’s going to be wonderful uh right let’s let’s have a look I’m terrible at those things uh one day people I will get better I asked a question they gave us the chance to ask question so there’s a link for for anyone to submit questions here’s renan talking about how they going to approach the questions never lets me wear the apron I’ve tried to sneak and do it but she won’t let me what we’d like to do now if you can hang in here for another 45 minutes we’re going to address some of the questions that many of you sent in and thank you for sending those in we can’t address all of them that came in in fact we can’t address any of them completely uh because they’re complicated wonderful questions what we’ll do is I’ll try to address one and then we’ll have Sister renland Sister Shephard uh sister bum and then Elder buom and then back to me and we’ll see how many we get to okay okay so they were working on that they were saying you know we’re going to look at all the questions we’re going to see what we can do I find it interesting that he says we won’t be able to answer them completely and I kind of find myself asking question well well then why are you here we can’t any of what’s anost any of them completely I’m like why you yeah exactly Nick Johnson put best you know nice caveat to cover yourself you know why why say oh we won’t be able to answer them completely well then why bother because you you’re a person that claims a special conduit to Jesus Christ you’re a person that claims to speak for deity as an apostle as a prophecy and Revelator if you can’t answer the questions fully and completely who can and and why would why would we bother particularly when they’re not questions you know questions of those uh typical theological ilk where no one really has answers and it’s about faith and belief these are practical questions being submitted to them about church policies practices procedures doctrines things that they are experts on and the most qualified and authorized people to speak on I don’t think I’m overstating that case there more than that no I think you’re understating it um and I say this I I appreciate fully I’ve left the church and that may leave um leaders or other people with an impression that that’s made me less Mormon than I was um but I’ve had caused to say this to several Church leadership um people over the past couple of weeks you sir Elder Redland you have been called into this position people have faith in you you can absolutely even if it was just one question you could answer that fully obviously from there there would be an ongoing dialogue and there may be things that might come out of that but you could absolutely fully answer that question because you have been called you have the authority you talk about it all of the time if you telling me that you can of all people this make an authoritative statement then there is no point in us being able to answer you know ask those questions people put time effort and their hearts into it and I think from the tone of the questions that are answered the audience will be able to see that yeah and I think I want to have a look at the question that Peter submitted um he submitted a question in advance for the renland Peter could you read this out please yeah so my question was um on behalf of my household because you know my wife committed in the temple to obey the law of her husband so I got to decide what it was with so many Stakes Wards and branches in our church in our country shrinking and merging and so many of our children as well as experienced members and leaders of all ages leaving the church what five things do you think it will take to turn this around to retain our remaining members and numerically Grow Again so this is the thing we just wished that they addressed in the British rescue and never did because I was going to say something really witty at the beginning uh and I forgot because I was stressed and busy and tired and and I’m just not very good at this tonight um so I was going to say you know we had the original British rescue and then two and a half years later we’ve lost four Stakes numerous Wards and branches have closed or Wards have become branches we’ve seen a big decline they’ve just we’ve just lost the only District that we had in the British Isles um well liate District that’s become part of the Dublin State now they lost a ward in the process um and I think they’ll lose further branches uh so Peter’s question is very Salient and I think like he said the thing we wanted addressed last time they were here and the thing that they kind of skirted discussing last time um so I want to take a quick straw poll in the chat do we think that they even touched this question with a barge poll um that Peter submitted what do we think uh I’m just waiting for the comments to come in talk about yourselves elevator [Music] music no we got no way he addresses this question um so they kind of bundled questions almost so they were sort of saying you we’ve had questions about this subject and they would answer it quite generically and he began to answer this and you know sort of thinking oh this sounds like he’s going to answer I mean so that was sent in that relates to a concern about some people that lose their faith and leave the church and um and then what could be done and I was asked to come up with five things that might be helpful and so I’d like to just address this he was asked to come up with five things that might be helpful why Peter Bleakley of the Brit Avengers red reaction Del has just gone up toess him with Peter Bleakley bless his little heart you believe it he does not know what here’s the secret everyone yeah oh my here’s the secret everyone to come up with a list they cannot re resist a numerical list it totally it it clinched the deal first question answered I love these people ners in the chat floor we were we were like oh my goodness we were shth yeah I cannot believe it and it’s it feels a little bit gloaty and I do feel like we’re kind of gloating um but it very clearly a reference to Peter’s question yeah and and the fact that he chose to answer that you know well done because Peter’s been asking these questions for how long well done Elder years years and years thank you thank you Dale because he he didn’t what he hang on he he didn’t uh come out and make he didn’t uh give Credence to Peter’s postulations that the church was shrinking and all sort stuff he couldn’t bring himself to say that out loud but he talked about it more broadly as just people leaving which is the the essence of Peter’s question and he was asked to come up with five things that could be done to fix it and here’s his best attempt uh let’s start with thing number one when all of the disciples deserted Jesus Christ after he had gone through Gethsemane did did that negate that part of his atoning sacrifice Heavens no it didn’t and so that when people leave it doesn’t change the truthfulness and so number one is you stay faithful yourself you do as sister Tam runia said at General Conference six months ago you stand at the tree and beckon which just we didn’t catch it at the time but that is a general Authority that is an apostle of the LDS church quoting a woman we’re seeing it in the wild folks it’s there it’s happened and then you continue eating the fruit and show that eating the fruit is a happy thing to do I think that’s what Elder bum talked about meeting with um I guess his his cousins it would be um uh in the aunt’s uh apartment Elder bone said something really just really quickly about how he has um cousins that have left the church and how we didn’t talk about the church but they had a really good time getting together and talking and they have this uh they have this year-on-year Tradition now this annual tradition of meeting up and how it’s good to spend time with your non-member family so I think that was very positive is you can have nice normal Natural Things and love each other but you stay faithful you don’t chase after them you stay at the tree of life that represents Jesus Christ you partake of the fruit of the tree which represents the fruit of the atonement of Jesus Christ and you beckon as much as they’ll let you you don’t become a nag you don’t become uh someone who scolds you just love and you Beck in okay thoughts Peter on the first part of the answer to your question I found yeah I found that really interesting cuz there was this enzy a couple of years ago that was very much targeted at what to do when your relatives leave the church or have a truth crisis whatever um and one of the there was only one of about five articles was in any way saying what he just said about just loving people unconditionally and still being in their lives the other four and some in extreme vitriol um said no you at every opportunity you must keep bearing your testimony to the these family members all the time so definitely being an a definitely being harassing them effectively don’t compromise don’t ever let them know that their lifestyle is acceptable to you you know there’s some real nasty rabid stuff said and there was just this one article out of them all that was um just love people unconditionally so I’m so pleased to hear from him that that’s his conclusion you know that that’s the best answer obviously because maybe they’ve worked out that the the judgmental nagging doesn’t actually work ever um so you know a bit of common sense thorning so I was really pleased with that answer to my question thank you I didn’t see I I wasn’t getting that I did get that later and I’m not sure that it was from him because um I it’s it’s obviously it’s been noticed in the chat too the assumption is that this question is coming from someone who is still in the church and that does feel that the fruit tastes amazing so it it’s of no and of course his audience who are listening primarily are made up of people who are who are in he immediately starts referencing apostles who abandoned Jesus and then he and I think this sort of drifts into the second part of his answer um you know he’s he’s calling them careless and disobedient now I don’t think he really intended to do that but he was using that type of language and it really became descriptive of the people that he was talking about so there was an othering people who have left abandoned um disobedient and careless and and it’s horrible I mean that’s just that’s just not that’s just not respectful what they have found is the fruit doesn’t taste all that or the road to the fruit is you know littered with barriers this is not going to be okay for me you can stand him back and all you like but this is not okay um he he does go on to see other fascinating things and good things but that was problematic for me yeah I think what what’s interesting though is we we know in intuitively that he is never going to say ask them why they don’t want the fruit anymore yeah because that’s that’s not what you doation like this don’t go after them no you just stay where you are carry on putting on the performance and maybe they’ll come back but don’t going to where they’re at call me conditioned or call me leave F but yeah I I think the best we can expect is just be kind to those that leave without following them out yourself that’s almost the best message you can kind of expect I mean may maybe we should we should ask for more and we should expect more and obviously if it was a a sort of um intelligent not intelligent that’s the wrong word a intellectually healthy organization that’s the word I was after um then of course it would be a ask them why they leave get them to challenge your beliefs so that you know that your beliefs are right and strong but I think we know enough about Mormonism to know that the belief system is on such Shaky Ground with you know theologically that it doesn’t stand up well to sort of logical investigation so they can’t really let people do that um because it it’s not cohesive we have the correlation department and they seem to do a terrible job of actually making anything consistent and workable over time because people are just cracking out their own narratives left right and Center um let’s go to the next part of here this evening thing is that there is a concern that one might have for one’s children so that was you saying P if you think about this for just a moment uh this I believe is an important principle your success as a mother is measured primarily by your commitment to helping your children become faithful Disciples of Jesus Christ your success isn’t mention measured by whether they become successful become faithful Disciples of Christ it’s your commitment that matters and of course you’re going to love and fret and worry and pray for but if that’s your commitment to try to help them become faithful Disciples of Jesus Christ you are a successful mother regardless of the outcome uh I want to go to the mother in the room work so near yet so far um and and because I’m applauding because the guilt from the women in that room men in you know men too but primarily it falls on women who are judged and judge themselves because their children leave this question comes up in every single Relief Society discussion um so yes they are judging themselves to hear a message look you’re the issue here if this is where you want to be if this is what’s important to you the path of discipleship then then fantastic that’s one Wonder ful so it got so close to that it nearly did it but yeah so if you’re teaching your children well enough that’s good enough and it’s it’s unsatisfactory it doesn’t quite get there um it’s it’s he could have backed it up almost with the Joseph Smith teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves and he could have just gone you know your job is just to to teach your kids whatever yeah and then let them get on and more How about if your kids are trying try their best to be good people if that’s what you taught them then that’s a really good thing and you have no control over you know the the moral choices that your children make in adulthood you have no control over their path of spirituality you H you raise them the best way you know how and that’s how you parent there’s there’s still an inherent judgment in it that the expected path is the same one as you pick and that’s not how kids or parenting works and how do you judge that someone tried hard enough because it works you know you can’t separate the two there is only one criteria for knowing if you if you mothered enough yeah and and hang on earlier on it was said that we not by our hard work yeah um I mean he’s about to take a deep dive into the opposite of what Jane was saying you know it’s about to get a lot lot worse um with the stuff about ceiling yeah but just I guess want to I want to really underline because it is so significant that people that I love people that I that I know women are being judged because of how their children live whether in the church or out of it and that there is it’s done shamelessly and that it’s done openly and is completely unacceptable now I would love to hear rhetoric like that coming from our leader you know we don’t get to judge what our children’s choices are and more than that we don’t get to judge what other people’s children’s choices are and how about those children are just fine let’s go on to the next bit of what he said because it is going to get worse this is what um Jamesy fa president fa said at General Conference in 2003 and he was quoting a prior Prophet s Revelator ORF Whitney quoting Joseph Smith so this is Prophet to the third power um president fa said I believe and accept the comforting statement of Elder Orson F Whitney the Prophet Joseph Smith declared and he never taught more comforting doctrine that the Eternal ceilings of faithful parents and the Divine promises made to them for Valiant service in the cause of Truth truth would save not only themselves but likewise their posterity though some of the sheep May wander the eye of the shepherd is upon them and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold either in this life or in the life to come they will return they’ll have to pay their debt to Justice they’ll suffer for their sins and they may tread a thorny path but if it leads them at last like the penitent prodigal to a loving and forgiving Father’s Heart and home the painful experience will not have been in vain pray for your careless and disobedient children hold on to them with your faith hope on Trust on till you see the salvation of God you stand at the tree that represents Jesus Christ you partake of the fruit that represents the fruit of the Aton atonement and you beckon and invite and you pray and you hope that uh the Lord will watch over them he will your success as a mother is measured primarily by your commitment to helping your children become faithful Disciples of Jesus Christ it’s not based on an outcome measure of whether they choose to follow your teachings Jane no who s heaven no s Heaven anymore there we go winner Tada winner because yes yeah but this is so problematic because it yeah because it’s like having the second anointing where you don’t have to keep the Commandments anymore you’ve got your oneway ticket to Heaven just CU you happen to be in the club in The In Crowd so this ceiling you know this is a very dangerous Doctrine and and repeatedly over the decade Apostles and Prophets have taught it skirted around it contradicted it um but again it puts this incredible pressure you have to stay at the tree that means you have to keep paying tithing you have to keep your temper recommend you have to hold on to as this Lynch pin for your entire apostate family you have to be the faithful person so that you get your cealing blessings fulfilled and then after they’ve atoned for their own sins so there’s that whole blood atonement Doctrine in there after they’ve suffered for the sins that they wouldn’t repent of no they don’t go to the telestial kingdom or the terrestrial like everyone else as we’ve been taught repeatedly recently in general conference by President Nelson by daring Oaks no your kids get a magic ticket they just get swept up it’s like being the rich kid who doesn’t actually have to pay the the punishment or go to prison for your crimes they still get to be with you in the Celestial Kingdom and it’s it’s just ludicrous it’s it makes a mockery of so many gospel principles the idea that you’re punished for your own sins nothing to do with what your ancestors are doing good or bad you know this is in our articles of Faith they taught us this in primary so this and and again has that quote been debunked because this is Aon Whitney claiming that Joseph Smith said this thing in the first place there’s no firstand sources that we’re aware of of Jes of Joseph saying it you’ve got to think that discussions debunk list but this will this will uh ring true to renland and anyone who’s had the second anointing because as we know the second anointing not only guarantees salvation for those who receive it but for a couple of generations after them that’s why our good friend priesthood dispatches uh is fine so he would so he would have you believe um that’s what he’d have you think anyway uh but yes so you know we we know that the second anoint uh it goes through a few Generations so it’s problematic again that true articles of Faith yeah so they are selling through Temple recommends and tithing to an exclusive club uh uh by a cheat uh a thing you can get for a computer game and Indulgence they’re literally he’s preaching indulgences if you give this church enough money and devotion you get time of purgatory or your children do they or that or rather it’s the worst of both World sort of they get they still have to do the Purgatory but then they’ll still make it to heaven and we were meant to dismiss all these Catholic beliefs as part of the apostasy and they’re teaching it in high part Chapel um absolutely fasina but then on the other hand because we welcomed it initially yes the end of sad Heaven if God is a loving God and this is where sort of touchy feely hippie Mormonism wants ago Progressive Mormonism um this this is our God and we heard it in general conference where several people were talking about how nothing will stop God reaching out and loving us if we’ve made covenants even though scriptures tell us you can lose it all and become a son of ption no they were like no that’s not real in the last General Conference you know go God nothing will separate you from the love of God if you’ve made a covenant what whatever Behavior whatever anything so they are playing two completely opposite doctrinal fundamental theological Concepts at once and they just jump around between while we know but there it is again and it’s about something really big this is so especially for women especially for mothers and the mixed messages they’re getting but again the bottom line in all of these scenarios is it’s your job Mom to stay faithful and stay at the tree and hold it all together you’re the Lynch pin if you lose it all of your children and grandchildren’s salvation is lost therefore that’s why the little old ladies stay in church while all their families leave because they they’re holding on to that one last hope and it’s all they’ve got and it I think it’s just abusive it’s outrageous you asked theologically yes you asked him to answer your question interesting answer Dale thank you yes and here’s the fourth part and he only did four yeah yeah another one that is uh sometimes forgotten is in Isaiah and Isaiah for me is sometimes hard because he frequently mixes several things together and talks about them at the same time and he does so here in Isaiah Chapter 58 and he’s talking about the fast he’s talking about keeping the Sabbath day holy and he’s talking about the temple almost all at the same time but the blessings that come are these he says then shalt thou call and the Lord shall answer thee Thou shalt cry and he shall say Here I Am the Lord shall guide thee continually satisfy thy soul and then this and they that shall be of thee meaning your posterity they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places Thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations and thou shalt be called the repairer of the breach the restorer of paths to dwell in if you if thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath from doing thy pleasure on my holy day and call the Sabbath of delight the holy of the Lord then these blessings will come I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the Earth the high places of the earth when Isaiah talks that way he is talking Temple and the blessings of the temple and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father he will pour out the blessings of Abraham on you in his temples for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it Sabbath day fasting Temple I don’t know if that reaches five but that’s my best shot sister renland okay there you go I don’t think we need to go into that because it was a lot of waffle to be honest it was just do all the right things and that will fix it all and it’s well that’s not particularly helpful um let’s let’s go also how you can interpret scriptures a hundred different ways it might have been referring to Jesus as the person who does that as the descendant of Jacob you know yeah should we have a look at sister Shepherd who’s very interesting she’s awesome um because we we then got just before sister goes on we got um sister renland talking about balance talking about the need for balance how balance is really important and I just want to point out that David a bedar said on an Instagram live that there’s no such thing as balance so stop driving for it don’t worry so there’s just another little inconsistency between Apostles there you got the renland saying that balance is really important and and we need to find balance and bedar saying don’t bother trying to find balance just it’s not there um right Peter you’re going to take the lead on this one uh but please please please pleas please keep it brief of course Linda Shephard is an area organization advisor sorry she’s been a State Relief Society president um she’s been involved in LDS charitable things so she’s quite a high flyer um among women leadership and she’s about to be even more amazing yeah um and just because people confused in the comments this was a Relief Society devotional Q&A Fireside whatever you want to call it um so that’s why we’re talking about women about mothers particular here because this is the audience right because it’s one close to my heart um again I thank you all for your very uh Faith filled questions um so my question is about uh lgbtq family members that um we probably know or or have ourselves why is she addressing this when there’s an apostle in the room get to that so just so you know my where I’m coming from I have four lovely grownup children and they’ve all served missions and uh served really Faithfully in the church and then four years ago our Second Son came out as gay and he has stepped away from the church and he was 29 at the time and couldn’t face the thought of a life on his own really I suppose and um as his parents we love him we do not judge him we love his partner and we love gathering together as family members and um anyway as you can imagine when this happened four years ago um we were well I was I’m sure you would be too in a little bit of turmoil and um the temple was closed and um because of covid and when the temple opened I was so desperate to go because I wanted to be with the Lord in the temple and while I was there uh I I received um very very strong feelings about my family and um and two scriptures came to mind and one of them is um the one in Nephi where Nephi says I don’t know the meaning of all things but I know that God loves all his children and that came to me very very strongly that heavenly father loves all of my children and then the second scripture and I’ll see if I can get it up here without my phone going off sorry everybody um this is section 101 uh verse 16 and the words that came to my mind in the temple was were for All Flesh is in mine hands and when I went to find the [Music] scripture it’s uh section 101:1 16 it says [Music] therefore let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion or I replaced Zion for your son for all your family for All Flesh is in mine hand and then the part of that verse that we all know be still and know that I am God sisters I don’t have any answers to how our families will work out in the eternities but I know these two things that God loves all his children and I know that I can be comforted regarding their future in The Eternity and I pray that whatever you’re experiencing that you can feel that comfort and you can know that God loves all his children as well and I say that in the name of Jesus Christ amen Jam amen um she so she is uh one of the women’s leadership in the Europe area it’s wonderful to see these three women in action I would would have loved her to have been able to get to the point where so what she modeled was exactly how church members need to be um need to be behaving certainly towards um lgbtq members of their family um what would have been wonderful is if she was able to sort of find more substance so we’ we’ve got the milk we all know it’s it’s a it’s a given thing in the world that that that gay people are children of God and they are just as loved if we’re looking at it through a Christian F framework this is not news to announce it is news is gets on my nerves but she got there she said the right things and she’s demonstrated this is how families should be acting and not the examples of children being disowned or there’s tension in relationships because they’re gay and that she would speak about publicly she’s not the first um in the UK she’s not the first um leader to do that in recent weeks and it is it’s really worth noticing this Behavior being modeled what I was hoping for and you know we we mentioned this before the show went live this is a relief society meeting she should have had all of the authority to be able to sort of give us the doctrinal meet um or a future vision of the church that that she would be able to present to the listeners the person who is called and is able to do that as Elder rainland and I was aching for him to stand up and give us more because you could have comforted that woman you could have comforted the people who asked that question this wasn’t her question or if it was her question it wasn’t only her question it was submitted here’s what I would have what I what I would expect what I think people should be able to expect from from church leadership Elder renland should have used the opportunity first of all to thank her to come for her to stand up immediately after she had finished speaking to thank her um to acknowledge her pain I would have loved him to um apologize that children don’t always feel safe people in lgbtq community don’t always feel safe at church and that there are these things about um what the eternities will look like for them I would have loved to have heard him say I promise you that things will change I promise promise you that I will see to it personally that we are discussing it that the doctrine of the church makes it clear that you are made in the image of God and that this is how so many of you are feeling right now I will personally be looking at what our church is going to be doing uh to to support people at Pride to uh support family members and no more of this division based on sexuality and and gender he could have said that and and I hope that is actually how he feels that’s a perfect segue to uh what his what sister renin said about garments so let’s throw that up on screen sisters can we talk there were several questions about temple garments now I’m not going to be talking about underwear who wants to talk about that I’m going to be talking about temple garments or the Garment of the Holy priesthood there were a couple of questions about fit and fabric your concerns are not new they have been heard the Relief Society General presidency and Beehive Clothing has been working on this for some time so stay tuned help is on the way in the meantime may I I encourage you to read in the handbook section 27.2 that deals with the temple garment where it says during the initiatory members Covenant to wear the temple garment and it represent what it represents our relationship with God and our commitment to obey his keep our covenants made in the temple we also understand that the Garment is representative of the veil of the temple which is repres representative of Jesus Christ so I would encourage you while you patiently wait for new Styles and fabrics to go to the temple frequently do your best to wear what is available here and think about the uh symbolism that the Garment carries there we go there’s some secret news for us you know new garments are on the way that’s a scoop um but the solution in the meantime is just we just keep keep wearing them you have to keep weing come carry on suffering until we sort it out not the message no the message is women you’re supposed to wear them more you’re supposed to be wearing them um you know all of you women and Tik Tok who are having the audacity to film yourself wearing your sports wear or having for B swimwear or you know you show your porn shoulders no no no no we can’t be having that so this this question that that she was presenting women have asked about garments yeah the reason the question that they’re actually asking is about how come women are being you know sort of the the target of this doubling down of this rhetoric around garments what what’s happening here um how practical is it and I’ll tell you exactly what they’re they’re saying as well because we have been saying it for the past what you know since garments were first instituted she mentions fit and fabric when you are breastfeeding when you are getting yeast infections when you are getting vaginismus it is there is a such a a list of things we’re working on it you’ve been working on it for how long and you can get around to saying women you don’t have to wear four potential layers of fabric next to your vagina what you can do is look after your health and you can wear no garments when you need to wear no garments for the sake of your health that is responsible messaging fit and fabric we’re working on it underwear we who wants to talk about underwear women want to talk about underwear we have women who don’t know how to be fitted for BRZ the most common garment related sort of tempish uh underwear question is women in the chat who you all know BR over or under um that’s what people are asking people want some details women who don’t know how to when they’re not wearing garments how do I buy underwear they they don’t know what styles what fit of of briefs um so yeah yeah it’s a big question and actually in a room full of women we could be answering those questions fully and frankly because we are grown-ups um you could talk to us about menstruation she later talks about the transition from young women into Relief Society things like that would be extremely valid baptisms in the temple when when young women are still being told that they can’t be baptized or that that extremely impractical things have to happen so yet women are asking about garments is that is that when they’re on their period they can’t be baptized in the temple well that was the that was sort of the the state at one point and now uh you really do not want me to get into the the catastrophe that it is right now but that phrase help is on the way couldn’t you say that to our gay families couldn’t you say that to uh the abused children garments um give us a time scale tell me exactly what you’re talking about and break it down for us because you just mentioned underwear fit fabric there are specifics that you’re able to give let’s hear more about it my rather glip response uh when we were watching that we said who wants to talk about underwear I was like Bishops Bishops will interrogate people about their garments and their garment wearing and get to in on it right Peter I will skip over you here for a second for the sake of time um but I want you to come in on this next one um because we’re talking about hbal uh is well he’s talking about he’s answering again a tough question about why can’t women have the prood why can’t women lay on hands like they do in the temple wonderful question about why sisters are not able to uh BL their children with the laying on of hands and uh and why they can use some of the why they can be involved in prood ordinances in the temple and but not in that ordinances but we learned something over Co that is really profound My First Co experience was after my visit to the MTC where I did the devotional and if there’s one place you can get go with that’s the place when they fly in from all over the world and and so I got really really sick sick even though I was vaccinated and uh when I was like in that modus sweating and not noticing really what was going on around me I noticed that my wife was holding my hand and she was on her knees for a long time and the next morning I felt a lot better and I I recovered quickly and she says I did what president Nelson told us to do during Co because nobody could come and bless you but I could say a prayer and not a prayer there’s levels of praying and one of the levels is explained also by President Nelson some years ago it’s when we want something to happen so desperately and think of one of your children that is struggling and you would love to lay your hands upon that person’s head that when you pray with the intention like a person that is about you know to to drown gasping and and grasping for air when you pray with the same intensity boy that prayer is going to be heard and I have a testimony of that so there’s really no need to bring oil and to lay hands upon the Hat it’s through the Cry of the faithful so what he’s saying there is that oh women don’t need the priesthood they don’t need to be able to give blessings because if they just pray hard enough it’s basically the same thing theologically Peter what does that do to PRI of blessings I’m completely negate set because he’s just said it’s the you know your earnestness is what makes the difference not your Authority for a start so that’s discounting pried Authority MH it’s put a lot of the pressure on the people he’s making completely false and he quotes president nson just before you go there real quick um what what what is said at the beginning of a priest of blessing is you give State their full name you say by the authority of the Holy priesthood which I hold I lay my hands upon your head right that is so you declared your Authority by which you’re giving the blessing so now to say that well a a Earnest and sincere cry for support and help and and whatnot is just as good sorry carry on Peter about the empty promise from Nelson well well no that’s fantastic we’re now doing female blessings without the priesthood awesome yeah um that’s what he’s just announced um but but just but it’s also a lie where he’s quoting president Nelson saying you know where he did his talk where he contradicted himself in one minute he was saying all you need is the faith of a mustard seed to move any mountain in your life any mountain yeah um but then he said yeah but if it doesn’t move that it’s just God’s got his own timetable Well it can’t be both and we keep coming up against this over and over again there was a talk about it in my w today you know literally pray it’s really important God answers your prayers but if he doesn’t answer your prayer it’s because he’s got something better for you or it wasn’t the right time well how then do you know you’ve exercised enough faith and when you got a dying spouse or a child and you’re being told by these people that the more Earnest and desperate and fasty and whatever you are in your prayers the more effective that prayer will be and then the person still dies y whose fault is that that’s yours for not being Earnest enough this is so dangerous it’s it’s messed up in the head it makes me livid this is this is evil to teach that to people and then their their Miracle doesn’t happen and then they’ll just flip to the excuse oh well it wasn’t your time or was God had another plan well don’t tell people that the degree of earnestness even more than priesthood itself is what makes the difference for a miracle happening um so oh my wife very wise um so so the prayer only works if you pray at the right level yeah you know and and then that as you know Nemo as a priesthood holder although not allowed to use your priest at the moment without any church discipline and for no good reason um the you know there’s a lot of angst around giving people blessings and what’s expected of you and you may not feel worthy and all of that but you have all these soothing messages so it doesn’t matter it’s the faith of the person you’re blessing that is being accessed when you give a blessing there’s all these workarounds but these people cannot sing from the same hym sheet they contradict each other and themselves constantly and they just keep it all fluffy as we’ve heard with these answers about what to do about your lgbtq children just God just loves them it will be fine things will work out um everything you know the house always wins it’s always God’s will if your your prayer worked or it didn’t work still believe it’s all proof of God bed n hold do you have the faith not to be healed thing right yeah yeah yeah Jane real quick and then we’re going to go into uh it’s messing this is reaching into people’s most yeah most desperate times of need most when religion is meant to be there to support you they are giving people they’re setting bear traps for people when they their loved ones are sick or dying or they need a miracle urgently they are they they are not being responsible in their contradictory messaging it sets bear traps for people to be hurt and broken and worry and blame themselves always blame if people hadn’t got the message that Peter is is very mad about this um he he is and uh has every right to be Jane just real quick before we get to rand’s view on because renland actually agrees with with some of this here yeah um th this is significant to men who have been told that they cannot exercise the priesthood for whatever reason like Nemo and Peter um and it infuriates me and it disappoints me because these are worthy men that that haven’t done anything wrong and in that sense this is a Level Playing Field but in the other sense this is specifically a women’s meeting and the questions that would have been asked would have been along the lines of things that been asked in the chat we used to be able to bless why can’t we bless why can’t we bless our babies that was specifically referred to in the question you know blessing our children now when women specifically are um providing care in the home and amongst friends uh women and I’m sort of thinking about issues of you know KY children uh you know babies in those sort of you know year old sort of stages um partners with aching backs aching muscles we use oil and we sooth we speak we we communicate to that person there is a natural sort of connection there for women and healing work and what we are being denied his access to formalize that in a spiritual way so many women across the world that’s how they connect and we’re not being allowed to do it and we’re asking and to suggest it’s basically just if you do a good hard prayer it’s the same thing we want to quate touch with the divine right thank you well I think I think uh renland agrees with some of this that you know and I’ve noticed this narrative shift a lot and it is going to continue in the coming days weeks and years this narrative shift around what the priesthood actually is and I’m reminded I wish I had time to put it in here but I’m reminded of what um Boyd K Pacer said basically came out and said don’t go try and tell me that when women are involved in things that are overseen by the priesthood that they’re somehow exercising priesthood power because they’re not and now we’re we’re absolutely having that narrative um being brought to bear by current leaders so let’s hear it God’s power is given to Earth in many ways but one important thing to know is that priesthood does not equal men priesthood does not equal men let’s continue equals God’s power and authority there’s a portion of that that he has given to men through priesthood ordination there’s some that comes through priesthood Keys there’s some that comes through a setting apart there’s some that comes through covenants there’s some that come through this extraordinary prayer of faith that Elder B talked about there’s some that God has reserved he has has not given the keys of Resurrection to the Earth he’s not given the keys of being able to make spirit children so there’s a whole bunch that he has reserved but his power is not restricted to just this priesthood ordination it comes to women in a number of ways and especially in the ceiling ordinance it’s that as as a man and a woman enter an order of the priesthood that neither could enter singly they enter it together all right so that’s the last of our clips and there you go priesthood doesn’t equal men because there’s lots of different ways in which the priesthood power Works within the church and some of that’s by men some of that’s by women some of that’s by everyone um Jane stop repeating the same words we know what it isn’t we know that it’s not men women are very clear on this and to show up at a women’s meeting when we’re asking about how can we use it and what are the limitations that that this does not make sense then can we just address that specific point instead of dressing up with language and making us feel all warm and fuzzy about the priesthood yeah we get it it’s there we know we can access it but you won’t authorize it not anymore but you know what I mean I I thank you yeah I mean I I S I found this really interesting because obviously that one of the biggest HOAs recently has been the reaction to Annette Dennis of the release site of presidency claiming that that women have you know he said no other religious organization that I know of great empowers women more yeah and referring this idea and then we we had the president um sort of talking about how she begins every day listing to a talk by President Nelson and but then blagging about how she was a working Mother We Now find with an Nanny um which means she totally dis disobeyed the the prophets and what they were saying when she was being a young work mother um and all this mixed messaging around you know the hypocrisy the layers of contradiction themselves and all of that um it’s it’s just a mess I mean I think I mean I I don’t know if are you going to show the Ruth renan thing about single sisters marrying I was going to talk about it real quick so let me just run through that so I’ll just summarize that quickly yeah um if you want me to do that um so she I mean this is quite important she she deals with the question therefore I must do it um she deals with the question um for single sisters saying you know should I marry outside the church because we all know there’s had someone there was a meme recently about um men in the church are like parking spaces in a car park um they’re either taken or they they’re handicapped to use the American term um which is a bit brutal but I think very true there’s so few men in the church who are active compared to women that anyone eligible for marriage is usually snapped up already and the rest are really struggling to be someone you should marry um usually for your own safety um therefore re and and one of the first things I covered in my podcasts was how the easily nearly half of women in the church are being lied to they are never going to be able to marry in the temple that’s how bad the numbers are when you actually analyze them nearly half of women will simply not be able to marry in the temple because there won’t be a priest at hold for them she quoted her husband talking about in conference how we need to take off and land on our own runways U which is great possibly sexual metaphor um and it was what he was talking about was was personal revelation and she said there is no one way to be a Latter-Day Saint woman uh which is like the Sunstone uh slogan there are many ways to Mormon um and and that was brilliant because she’s basically saying that’s for you to get personal revelation about to which I would add statistically the vast majority of people leave this church you’ve got just as much chance of a long-term faithful Temple marriage by marrying a nice non-member who’s a decent guy that you’re not going to get divorced from because so many desperate Latter-Day Saints either too young and foolish and pressurized or just desperate marry very unsuitable people and end up getting divorced and that didn’t work so I would absolutely back that up just find the right person for you and let Gods get them in the church you know if it’s so good they will be running into the church’s arms so I love that that was wonderful yeah we’re about to bring Sarah on so Sarah’s in the green room so if she is if she is listening I can I do one one quick comment before we get right no you can’t you can in a second but first I have to tell people that if you would like about Peter’s handicapped parking commentary um his email address is Mormon Civil War gmail.com um you don’t need to email me about it uh because I often am the one that receives complaints about Peter you can write to him if you got a problem with what he said um right Peter have your final comment um yeah I no just just you can make up your own Mormonism the the the overall message for me from this is the Peter runs is isn’t this great news everyone you can from the full range of what’s being taught half of what these people said directly contradicts what the current living Prophet is teaching not dead ones the living one you know saying there’s there’s God’s love is unconditional saying no Nelson and and Oaks and others have been teaching very clearly that God’s love is not unconditional he’s not reaching out to you regardless you have to be cooperating and keeping the Commandments then his love is extended fully towards you and they’ve taught that but you heard the opposite message here today your lgbtq children God just loves you he’s giving spiritual messages to these people that their children will be fine and they’re all wrapped up in his arms but the actual leaders of the church are teaching the opposite very specifically that literally other Kingdom lesser kingdoms of Glory away from the one the righteous will be in were created for the lgbtq people and others who won’t abide by the celestial laws of heterosexual marriage polygamous or otherwise so just the message here people there is a good Mormonism in all of this there is a Mormonism that is forward thinking that is inclusive that reflects genuine compassion and all-inclusive love we’ve heard several examples of it in the mix this evening quoting prophets from the mouths of prophets from General Authorities male and female of our church you can make you be a cafeteria Mormon because everyone is and they always have been that’s the secret therefore come to church love this religion you decide what your beliefs are because you can find a quote from an lead an apostle backing up literally anything you want there are some nice AV versions that you can make out of that but I like that Peter thank you Jane your final thoughts but unordained unordained women do not have anything like equal power that little ordination thing makes all the difference in nearly all the things that matter thank you Peter yeah phal thoughts um so it was a really good meeting I really enjoyed it I think the renins and uh particularly sister um is it sister Burton H it it was really good there are people with whom I think given the chance they would have um they would we would have been able to sort of push back we would have been able to push for more um so I would have loved to have seen that question format it was great that they crammed so much in but also if you just focused on one and we could have had a deep dive into one thing I would have loved that give women more autonomy I guess is what I’m saying and uh yeah I want to see where is my podcasting wife apparently she’s around somewhere ah too busy so I think we’ll have to come back to the centry uh debacle another evening um we’ve been here for an hour and a half this isn’t Mormon stories folks we’ve got lives to lead we got people to see we got friends to hang out with I’m not here to take up all your time um sh then if if it’s um if if she’s not here is I can tell you that the stake question answer session which has been happening in covantry um and it’s cheered by the wonderful David Eon who started a podcast of his very own and we will be putting him through his Paces just shortly on the show um he makes sure that everyone gets a proper answer to their questions he will put it out to the panel come back to the question and make sure that it’s been answered so that format is phenomenal Sarah asked particular questions around lgbtq issues and also around the issue of Integrity so I’m sure that um she’ll have plenty of more to say about it but what we did get to hear was a a progressive church as a is a a place that um is more kind of aspirational and I would have loved to have heard tonight from the from the Relief Society meeting women are innovators um in the UK we have an opportunity to try new things I would love to see a bit of that happening here particularly with um with Linda speaking because she has this new calling there’s so much to be done with it I want to hear what you’re experiencing so I’m asking for more of her and more of this kind of thing where we actually engage in dialogues they did not back away from tuway tonight yeah it was good it was good so this is where I get awesome to put myself full screen and say thank you very much everyone for watching if you want to support this kind of work these kinds of videos the time it takes to go sit through all this stuff and draw it together and whatnot you can make a monthly donation in the description box 10 $20 a month is really really helpful to help me keep doing this fulltime and spending all my time doing this uh if you can’t do that or you don’t want to do that totally fine you can hit the like button which tells me that you liked this video video which is helpful and it tells YouTube you liked it too and so they will then send it to people who watch the sort of stuff that you watch um so that’s always helpful and like I said big things are coming in the next few weeks so hit subscribe hit the little notification Bell so you know what’s going to happen uh and I’m really excited to share my upcoming adventures with you so until then I will see you later take care be