Tensions in US-Israel relationship, Xi finishes Europe tour, 2024 Olympic worries • FRANCE 24

It’s been a week that’s seen intense strain on the US-Israel relationship. President Joe Biden has issued an ultimatum to Washington’s strategic ally in the Middle East – if IDF troops storm Rafah, key weapon supplies will stop.

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[Music] hello and welcome it has been a week that’s seen intense strain on the US Israel relationship President Biden issuing an ultimatum to its strategic Ally in the Middle East if IDF troops storm Rafa key weapon supplies will stop alone we stand alone I’ve said it before if we have to we fight tooth and nail your Founders declared that this n in the wake of hamas’s uh appalling this cabinet came together and uh stand a rare grand tour of Europe history is at a turning point said the French president who hopes personal diplomacy can make a difference to tense relations these are the books I’d like to present you as a gift they are the Chinese translations of French novels and it’s been a week to seen the spectacular arrival of the Olympic flame in Mars carried on 19th century ship French officials promising a games like no other before we’ll look at whether Paris can avoid the curse of so-called white elephant syndrome that Athens Beijing Rio and Tokyo to some extent didn’t manage to avoid the games are back in our country and uh uh let’s celebrate uh let’s uh share uh this fantastic moment of Celebration with uh millions and with me from the international press call this week Pierre ASI international news editor hello to you from France in president of reporters Without Borders author quite preent at the moment un du promise a doubly Promised Land here it is I think a key time for your book to be launched be looking in depth at the events in Israel occupied territories October the 7th and before yes I was a correspondent in Jerusalem in the ’90s at the time of the Oslo agreement the only time of an attempt to make peace that failed and so I I tried based on that experience and and a lot of reporting on on the ground to understand why all this failed and and how to get out of the the current uh deadlock uh deadly deadlock and and that’s that’s really the substance of the book and uh it’s a it’s a very tough situation because uh 30 years of um nons solving the problem since o SL have only aggravated the situation if only with the number of settlers in the West Bank that it was 120,000 in 1993 at the time of Oslo it’s 450,000 today so the you know the people thought and nanyu was the first promoter of that idea that it was under control that you could live with with no peace no war situation where you you build on you know the set and and without too much noise and October 7th put an end to to that and and make it made it more difficult now to get a a peaceful solution once this war will be over well I’m glad we’ve got you this week particularly given what’s going on in the Middle East right now particularly in Rafa Vivian Waltz season correspondent for Time Magazine Fortune you’ve just profiled anid Dalgo mayor of Paris talking Olympics looking at her low popularity rating to which she said I don’t care yes indeed and I also just returned this week from another interesting spot um Saudi Arabia so lots going on in the world yeah great to have you on board Olympics will be a key theme also today an bam Marie Professor Paris based Europe correspondent for law.com international and am I right to say you’ve been studying the news this week a few things have caught your attention oh I think it’s been um all stormy all the time for uh for for those of us in the legal journalism business and it’s been fascinating because law.com uh being the international component of a magazine called the American lawyer which is quite plugged into the legal scene in the US certainly and we’ve also got a big affiliate in London we have access to some terrific legal Minds who talk to us on the record off the Record and just talk to us so it’s been a fascinating week calling up my old friends and sources and saying okay so what’s going on in their heads in there and uh you know you could you don’t have to be a legal geek to uh really appreciate that these high stakes games of of jury trials even if they’re not televised are um are really something to to watch and Marvel at I mean how do they do it and inside the court I think people have had binoculars because there’s no microphones No cameras inside so reporters watching facial expressions we’re going to get into that in just a moment also Balu daragahi senior fellow at the Council longtime Istanbul based Journal journalist tell us what you’ve been watching this week well it’s interesting for a project that I’ve been working on on the side just examining uh the the um the what is supposed to be in the coming weeks and months a complete massacre in the uh Chinese electrical vehicle space um it’s interesting China has a glut of electrical car makers it has a a glut of electrical vehicles um and a and a really healthy competition but it’s really not able to export them to the West because of the mistrust and this is where China is really paying a cost and it would be interesting if uh someone would bring that to the attention of XI that the the mistrust that he’s causing the the hostility that he’s causing uh around the world is is hurting China more than anyone just today there was reports that the US is about to impose uh tariffs special tariffs targeting the Chinese EV industry um look outside here in par there’s lots of EVS very few Chinese EVS if any and this is one of the one of the costs of China’s actions and that also ties nicely into what we’re getting get into this tour of Europe in Hungary the main plant for Chinese e EVS as well and whether they’re been overly subsidies whether they’ve had too much Advantage already bosu great to have you with us too let’s begin early hours of the morning on Monday the Israeli air force sky dropped thousands of leaflets across the east of Rafa the most southern city of Gaza warning thousands of Palestinians to evacuate a direct targeted operation said Israel civilians displaced forced to move again we fled death and destruction to seek safety in Rafa only to find the same thing here where are we to go the situation is so difficult we’re unable to describe it I fled from the north to the center and from there to Rafa now they are threatening Rafa they will commit massacres here it will be a genocide we honestly don’t know where to go the Flyers direct people to quote expanded humanitarian areas alasi and Han Yunis well James Elder from UNICEF worked in both areas in the past few months this is how he described those places to me I’ve never seen the devastation of a place like KH unas in my two decades with uh with the United Nations Gavin KH Unice is Rubble as far as you can see and that unfortunately speaks to something that’s that’s not targeted strikes when you are looking at at 360° of destroyed homes and buildings and apartment blocks that speaks to the indiscriminate nature with which this war has been fought that’s why 2third two-thirds of all homes in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed so there’s nothing to go to in Gaza James Elder well the consequences of the operation the fear of what’s to come in a city of more than a million civilians would have instant ramifications with the US Israel’s biggest military backer in a war that started with unconditional support from Washington now a pause in a US weapons shipment heading for Israel and an ultimatum from President Biden to Benjamin Netanyahu talking and telling CNN that if the continued Rafa Invasion becomes a bigger ground offensive then key weapons shipments will stop Pierre let’s begin with you a bold move from the US perhaps in going this way way to say we will stop this if this continues threatened for months do you think it was the right move well President Biden has been criticizing the way the Israeli uh war was going on since December his first criticism and he’s been scaling up the the the criticism he even said a few weeks ago that the way things were going was disgusting which is strong word in a president’s mouth and and nothing was happening so I think he had to do something because he looked like being manipulated by Benin Netanyahu and and the problem is that once you’ve decided that and Netanyahu is saying is going forward with his move he’s not going to be intimidated by uh President Biden even said we’re ready to fight with our nails if needed um what what will the US do and and you know there the the more complicated situation is that you have the war in Gaza and you have the broader Regional picture with Iran with the Hezbollah with the hutis in in Yemen and and so what will the US do if if if there’s a war now starting with Hezbollah will it uh let Israel uh fight on its own you know there’s a whole range of questions that have started from uh this statement by President Biden but it is a very important landmark in in this conflict because the US has been the the most powerful Ally of Israel for decades I mean it’s the US have have given Israel more weapons than any other country in the world in the past 70 years and and and therefore announcing that you’re not going to make any more deliveries is is a very strong move uh but it’s created more questions than it’s providing answers more questions providing answers say Pierre Vivan I just want you to watch two things so first the reaction from itar benav far right of the government security minister who said this Hamas Hearts Emoji Biden and then as you referred to Pierre this uh we will fight with our fingers moment this is what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say in response the war of independence 76 years ago we were few against many we had no weapons there was an arms embargo on Israel but with our great Spirit heroism and unity we won today we are much stronger we are determined and we are united to defeat our enemies and those who seek our souls if we have to stand alone we will stand alone I have said it before if we have to we will fight tooth and nail so Benjamin Netanyahu adding to this push back how would you read the state of Israel us relations right now I mean you know the fact that nashan Yahoo sort of hearkens back to the war of independence 1948 I mean this is no longer the kind of land of milk and honey and making the Desert Bloom and the kind of you know mythology um of Israel that uh Generations in particularly President Biden’s generation has grown up with um this is big Power politics Biden is facing a neck and neck race to be reelected back home and remarkably enough the Gaza War might be enough to tip it one way or another so you know that is uh a really urgent question for him and secondly I I actually don’t think this is so um extraordinarily dramatic he did say he was delaying weapons he did not say he was halting them there were a lot of ifs in his statement if there was going to be an all out assault on ruer he didn’t say anything about if there was going to be a kind of marginal kind of incursion and you know operations in Rafa and so I think that Israel has a lot more room to maneuver than its far right um insurgence if you like within the cabinet um make it out to be well Vivian saying effectively there’s lots of get out Clauses and we’re seeing potentially a reeping of more directed Maneuvers what do you think I think you know disastrously Middle East policies in the US no longer have anything to do with the Middle East especially an election year when you talk about Israel when you talk about Iran it’s all about domestic audiences President Biden faces a dramatic and potentially cataclysmic like Rift within his own Democratic party over the issue of Israel you’ve got you know riots at universities in the US over this issue you have you know disagreements uh uh within the party Elite among the rising Elite in the party uh the the New Breed like raisha tal and others you know who are more willing to be critical of of Israel uh versus The Old Guard Nancy bosi and her Bunch from back then and there there this is coming up right now right this second um this is about Michigan this is about maintaining Democratic party Unity Michigan has got a very large Arab population if they stay home and the if Biden loses Michigan he will lose the elections let’s I I will make that prediction and if if that and the only way that could happen in such a blue state is if the large Arab community in that state stays home so he has to basically play a really really uh kind of delicate game here it which he’s already seen the risk of in some in previous votes in the last few months about who’s going to be the leader of the party a lot of American Arab voters staying home not voting and Joe Biden’s saying if the choice between me and all the might the choice isn’t between me and the almighty it’s against the alternative but what if the alternative isn’t Donald Trump it’s actually people not voting at all and that’s where you’re getting the problem politics exactly and this is this is what he has this is The Balancing Act he has to play right now and and here’s the issue because for Israel domestic politics matter particularly for Benjamin Netanyahu many say he’s between a rock and a hard place the far right saying in the cabinet if you don’t go into Rafa we’re out mhm I want to know legally what your thought is when it comes to the cases of Human Rights activists who say some governments are pushing that if you arm Israel you are complicit in war crimes we see a case Nicaragua taking Germany to the international court of justice alleging that that’s what they’re doing the the lawyers who are looking at this issue closely inside and outside of Israel have told me that the question of war crimes and holding Israel responsible for war crimes is incredibly fraught The Rules of Evidence almost don’t apply this is Uncharted Territory and and you have to assess the damages which are not even close to being Quantified yet I mean there was already a hearing at the international court of justice and the judge the judge’s panel was not unanimous in condemning the actions of of Israel in in going in after hamus after the O October 7 attack it was it’s it’s very very shifting ground um I would like to say something though to follow up on some of the comments about um Joe Biden’s position and his statement that he might withhold weapons if if if if if it’s not an unprecedented move by an American president the first one who really rattled that saber and and did it very effectively was Ronald Reagan and one reason he was able to do it 30 40 years ago was 1982 so check my math um is because the composition of the of the of the relationship between the US and Israel was very different than it is today there was much more rocksolid support for using American power to lean on Israel to do what we wanted to do but the question of supporting Israel was never on the table it was just a question of how to use it tactically now as you pointed out the Democratic party is split because there are people within the party powerful people who don’t regard the Israeli government as representative of the Israeli State you’ve also got a very in terms of American politics you’ve got a Republican party that is still campaigning on we are strong for Israel We Stand United no matter what and a Democratic party where the issue is seen in a more I will say nuanced way just as we’ve described that Israel is not necessarily the government just as for example Hamas is not Palestinian cause so it’s going to be a very very very touchy thing for both of the candidates to navigate I think because even taking a stand drawing a red line wherever you want to do it you risk being very much on the wrong side of History Pierre taking that into account what an said about the complexity the difficult opinions the different opinions legally about complicity with Israel and alleged war crimes what Vivian was saying as well about this potential Drip by drip step by- step approach potentially in Rafa we’re going to see where do you see this heading you have different levels for this battle you have the military battle you have the domestic us uh fight for the presidency and you have the international uh level uh there’s not a single country that has backed Israel on going into Rafa every uh ally or friend of Israel has uh said it should not go Emanuel macron was on the phone with Netanyahu on Sunday to tell him not to go the Secretary General of the UN and so on and you have the legal battle and that’s a a very interesting Battleground also uh you’ve seen the impact act worldwide of the South African move at the international court of justice now last week there was panic in Israel because there was rumor that Netanyahu his minister of defense and the chief of staff would be indicted by the international uh Court heavily reported in the Israeli press yes absolutely and and and on Sunday the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement saying displacing forc displacement of of popular of Civ civilians is a war crime you know and France is a friend of Israel it’s not an an adversary of Israel and and putting out a statement like that on that was Sunday and Monday morning as as you reported uh the lifl lets came and said to the the civilians in Gaza you have to go in in Rafa so this is a a multi-layer um fight for support for uh for there different cons and today there was this vote at the UN General Assembly uh and there was a very heavy majority in favor of recognizing Palestine as a proper member State and the US was one of nine countries including palao and and and not Micronesia Micronesia uh who opposed it and and the Europeans and that’s another interesting point the Europeans were very divided France voted in favor of of the resolution Germany and UK abstain and Hungary and the Czech Republic voted against so you have a very wide range of opinions among countries that uh share uh you know the same political spectrum and and that’s a that that that’s part of the overall equation you talk of the multi-layered political Dimensions which brings us on to what happened this week here in France the C of toay it’s one of the highest mountain passes in the Pyrenees it’s known for being the single most iconic climb of the Tor of France and well there are lots of Legends about it countless Champions have been made on the Tet just as many have been broken the call makes or breaks you the same goes preent perhaps for relations between France and China were at the top of the climb on Tuesday Morning president macron invited president shei bad weather too snowing to take in the view the local Delicacies in the Mountaintop Cafe called the shepherd stop meeting she as you can see some personal diplomacy well Emanuel macron’s childhood holiday hangout he used the informal two and not Vu with she gave him a tour France winners Jersey shared wine watch the local dancers to following the pump and the ceremony of Paris the day before which saw macron welcome shei on his first state visit to Europe in five years let’s have a listen to some of the pleasantries so like to thank the president for his openness about the temporary measures on French Cognac and his wish that they not be applied as far as temporary measures are concerned now this wasn’t an easy trip matters War trade tensions on the agenda China accused of supplying dual use technology to Russia in its war on Ukraine not the case claims [Music] she China has stated its position on the Ukraine crisis on many occasions China is neither a Creator nor a party involved in the crisis however we are not watching the fire from the sidelines we have always been playing a positive role in achieving Peace So a two-day visit then off to Serbia and Hungary 2 this week viven personal diplomacy does it work what were they thinking um I you know this is the third time that president mcon has tried to kind of use his personal charm to win over effectively authoritarian leaders president XI uh President Putin and of course most famously Donald Trump whom he dined with on top of the Eiffel Tower if you remember um all of them to a man basically turned around and kind of brushed him off like some annoyance um it seems like it would have been a little bit more appropriate maybe with President XI to take him to the vers Shadow instead of President Putin he’s likes to see himself as a big Imperial figure and he is he is his his economy is vastly greater than France’s he has a lock on some of the most strategic minerals that France and Europe desperately need lithium ion batteries they produce most of the world Supply the EVS are flooding the Western markets and um this was I think just a toned deaf move I don’t know what anyone else thinks Pierre you were there you went to the state dinner how do you read this I think there there was a um difficulty that last year I was with president maon to China and and presiden C took him to the house where C father stayed when he was governor of guano Province guangong guandong provin and and so he had to re replicate that with a personal Dimension and that created this silly uh trip to the Pyrenees U but there is a um a a common interest of both presidents to look uh you know friendly because cin ping has uh there is a he has to show that he’s still welcome in some Western countries uh you know China has an obsession with its relations with the US um rightly so because uh both economically technologically and militarily that’s where it counts and so his all approach of world issues is based on what impact it has on his his relations with the US and France therefore is a good place for him to come and praise the spirit of independence of the go and from the go to Macon in a way um and and that’s and Macon has an interest in showing that he’s not a vassel of the US is used that word several times and so uh but that’s the surface on on the issues both on trade and on Ukraine which were the two major issues not much has come out to be honest and and I think M and there I join this view that he’s not getting anything from from C on Ukraine uh because cin ping is not going to weaken Putin um first of all uh a few months before the US election he will certainly wait to see who’s elected in in in November to to do anything and secondly why would he weaken Russia when when he knows that this will not play good on his relations with the US it will only free the US from to to focus entirely on on China and that’s a uh you you have to have that in mind that China is obsessed by its relation with the US and the rest is just a playground for uh for that major confrontation B at the same time you mentioned it right at the beginning that Europe matters to China in terms of its electric vehicle Market in China for example solar as well solar mic the tech world and this is an area where you have us analysts saying that the tech Market is and Vivian pointed to it with the global Rare Minerals this is where China wants to openly dominate in future from your perspective watching this what do you think president she is trying to get out of this week I mean credibility domestically as as you pointed out but also I mean look the the bottom line is that um people are countries are afraid of China they’re terrified of China in a way that they’re not terrified of the US let me give you one example Vietnam this is a country that was bombed by the US and backed by China and it is like Civilization linked to China and yet they’re now cozing up to like Anthony blinkin and you know worried about what China is going to do in the you know South China Sea they’re their big concern is China bullying other countries around so you know I mean this is just one example and he’s gone too far he has gone too far he’s uh on the one hand I don’t think that what macron did hurts that much it’s not that bad to have a conduit for communications but on the other hand I mean this is a guy whose economy is built on on on like slave labor and you know human rights abuses and that is not someone that you should be you know kind of bringing to your hometown vacation spot and shaking hands and being all Jolly I think there’s matters of principle involved here that macron has tossed to the side and bosu’s comments interesting when we think back to the European commission European Council describing China as a partner and strategic rival when you look at NATO describing it the China as a strategic threat to the alliance systemic threat to it more so than Russian future I just wonder whether you think it’s it’s did the right thing there trying to keep a personal relationship keep the communication open could he have done anything differently could he have done anything differently should he have done anything differently more openly critical perhaps well here’s the thing I completely I’ve been nodding along with everything my partners on the panel have said and the word that keeps popping up into my head is sideshow this is a side show to China’s Ambitions in the world I don’t know what M Hol thinks he get get out of it because he never has to face the voters again he’s term limited so Charming voters is one thing using charm in international relations is another you mentioned some of the European institutions what goes through my mind too is the European commission has and and and the legal Community here in Europe has a very jaice view of China if you look at some of the major developments in competition law for example uh foreign direct investment screening that takes place of mergers in the EU the these laws were put into place and stiffened over the last couple of years with one goal in mind and it wasn’t to prevent Seamans of Germany from taking over Alem of France it was to take it was to prevent anybody from China from taking over or investing heavily in a European country so there everybody’s afraid of China’s power and they’re also afraid and we’ve hinted at this at the fact that China seems to want to use its power without regard to some of the other shall we say guard rails that other superpowers might feel in being part of the world Community they don’t care about being in the World Trade Organization they don’t really care if we don’t like their human rights abuses they really they just don’t care it’s a country that is based on exercising economic power and to the extent they can do that they’re they’re pretty happy with their place in life so all of these little sides shows um trying to establish better relations yeah sure why not um but that’s that’s not what that’s not what China cares about and maybe deep down that’s not really what France cares about well from one leader where you say economic power matters to another former leader and possible future leader according to Anthony scaramucci on Donald Trump he said two things matter to him one is Money Two his attention flattery on him and it was on the same day that president macron was eating the best of peran Cuisine with President XI 3,000 km away in a New York courthouse Donald Trump and his legal team got a surprise in the criminal trial when Stormy Daniels walked into court to give her own testimony called in by prosecution as a witness now Michael cisak from the Associated Press News Agency is covering the case from inside the courtroom several times during her testimony Trump’s lawyers objected when they felt that she was going beyond the scope of what had been established as the ground rules she talked about the sexual encounter in details that she would is not supposed to they argued well perhaps it was TMI for many of the jurors of her alleged one night stand with former as I mentioned possibly the next president of the US describing his black silk pajamas his Old Spice After Shave toiletries even the RO up magazine in which she said she smacked his backside and suffice to say many more intimate details at the center of this case remember it’s not about stormy Stephanie Clifford and what she did it’s about being paid $130,000 hus allegedly and what they did with the bookkeeping before the 2016 election was marked as legal fees about campaign financing what wasn’t declared for the election no mics cameras as we mentioned earlier we saw Trump huffing puffing looking into the air uncomfortable were told by the court reporters this is him as he left the courtroom this was a very big day a very revealing day as you see their Cas is totally falling apart they have nothing on books and records and even something that should bear very little relationship to the case this whole case is just a disaster if you read the legal Scholars you’ll see because they’re writing about it they’ve never seen anything quite like it and neither of I and legally how did you find stormy’s testimony is this kind of manui detail of a Si’s life alleged sex life relevant to a jury it is absolutely relevant in this trial now the risk with this kind of detail is that she will put off some jurors I mean this is all theater to impress 12 people um it’s good theater but it’s theater and she’s an actress so she knows how to play to an audience and she knows how to learn her lines and present an image and she’s not afraid of the spotlight but the point of her going into that kind of detail which by the way should not have been a surprise to anybody because she wrote a book about it and she had even more details in there and she’s had clothing printed with Salient uh items from this night of whatever it was in in Las Vegas uh so it’s not a surprise what what happened was that the prosecution put her up there to talk about that night not because the sex was a crime that’s just never been the they put her up there to testify to it for two reasons one to show why Donald Trump would have been so worried about these details coming out that he would send his Deus exmachina uh Michael Cohen to go pay her off and then falsify his business records which is the crime they’re going after here in order to cover it up and by the way it didn’t have to be true for them to do that they did that with a couple of other stories that turned out not to be true but the crime was the falsification of the business records however the jury needs to know what that act was that was so repugnant to the idea of it getting out to Donald Trump it was also to present you the prosecutions thinking they need to make her a credible witness why do they need to do that because and this is where I mean you can laugh about it but and and a lot of lawyers are this is where a very experienced defense team completely dropped the ball it was in the opening statements where they said essentially this never happened that the the sex never happened this is this is a lie now that’s Donald Trump point of view it’s always been that way having said that in court the prosecution had the right then to put up stormmy Daniels to testify in rebuttal to that oh yeah it actually did happen that create they hope credibility for her and if it does create credibility for her it robs Donald Trump of credibility who said this is not this never happened so you did she have to go into that kind of detail even the judge didn’t think she did and he admonished her and admonished the prosecutors to instruct her better but the judge also spoke up and said I can’t understand why the defense didn’t didn’t object when she started going into these details now there there’s a lot of kind of granular defense strategy stuff I could get into some defense lawyers never object because they don’t want to call the jury’s attention to what they’re objecting to they’d rather let it go and handle it elsewhere but the fact is that what we’ve just seen this week was absolutely critical to the case we n none of us can unsee or unhear some of the things that she said or reportedly said but it was absolutely critical to the case Pier the issue that an mentioned glitzy salacious entertaining for us all the coverage may seem it’s enormous what’s at stake though isn’t it because ultimately we’ve got at the heart of this a president who will affect the world on Israel Gaza Ukraine and the legality and what’s at stake here one of four criminal cases we’re looking at how this reflects on the most powerful potential leader in the in the world it’s a big surprise for me as a non-american uh is that I’ve been raised with the the time when any candidate who was supposed to have had a mistress sometime in his life was out of the race uh we’ve had cases of during the the Democratic primaries in the past where uh the pure allegation of of a mistress was enough and here you have this incredible show which I must say uh is pretty enjoyable to to to to read because it’s a you know it’s an incredible uh uh level of detail yes uh and and and my question is how is it going to affect the election and and you know Trump was famous for saying that if he shot someone on the The Fifth Avenue he wouldn’t lose a single vote and and he proved that to be true uh is that going to be without any harm for his campaign uh you know I’m not American I’m not an American voter and I’m I’m on this side of the Atlantic and and I’m puzzled by that well Vivian there there’s two points there isn’t there because on the one hand is this is the Trump getting energy getting support from being the victim against quote the swamp the the state the corruption you the more difficult his fight perhaps the more popular he becomes to an extent but at the same time he’s not campaigning and it is Joe Biden right now who’s got more campaign funds to well that’s true um once again as I said this is a neck and neck race it doesn’t take much for one or the other to lose the selection in fact it’s just rathan and Pier makes an excellent point will this make one bit of difference to Trump’s electability we knew all of this stuff before 2016 we had the Access Hollywood tape we knew he was a total Rogue and and uh he in effect traded on that in some ways he was the guy that you know nobody cared what he did um he was the bad boy and uh and as much as people thought that was disgusting other people loved him for it um he might even think that there’s some benefit to spending a night or two in jail if he’s actually held to account for his uh violations of the gag order yeah he suggested that and we’ve got more uh interesting witnesses to come in the case well next amongst the most spectacular scenes of the week were these the Old Port of Marseilles Wednesday the Olympic flame arriving 11 days at Sea from Greece carried by a 19th century three mastered ship called the Bellum it was Smiles waves as the French leg of the torch relay officially began and is tradition unify to lift the spirit of a host nation with celebrities volunteers and the chosen ones carrying the flame to Paris France promising the greenest most different games yet avoiding the curse of white elephant syndrome barely used in uh years after where we’ve seen stadiums that just lie empty or becoming wastelands I guess the question is for the panel tonight can they do what other cities didn’t and Vivian we stop with you because you’ve recently interviewed an idalgo who fought for this I think four times for the Olympics to happen is her dream her vision then do you think the real reality of what’s being created now I mean in some ways yes I think in some ways if you look at Paris as it was uh 7 years ago when France won this bid it’s a different place it’s a bicycle City we have many more green spaces the whole move is towards making Paris a Kind of Green City and I think you know lover or hater you in some ways have to give credit to the mayor for that that said um and it was a question I asked her you never asked parisians whether or not they wanted the Olympics you know many many cities have referendums um to decide and she said if I’d asked them they would have said no which is quite true they would have however she’s had you know referendums on all sorts of extremely small issues um but in this case I think a lot of parisians are very skeptical many of them are getting out of town as they always do in the mid in the middle of summer personally I feel just my own point of view that eventually I think the city will benefit for it I think that it’s accelerated a lot of things with the new Transportation lines and I think ultimately the city will be better for it briefly bosu I want your take on they’re trying to improve particularly the the S sandini area you know the whole area one of the poorest in the whole of France do you think that will be at this point a legacy I mean it these s you had a great question is it going to be a white are you going to create a lot of white elephants and I’ve you know seen a lot of olympic cities you know and I’ve seen projects that have that stand the test of time and projects that don’t for example if you go to Saro you’ll see that some of the best housing in the city some of the most coveted housing is stuff they built for the 1984 Olympics meanwhile if you just go outside of the city you see these you know incredible desolate ski resorts and so on from that time that have you know no use and no one is using them anymore so if you use as as Vivian pointed out if you use the Olympics to accelerate uh you know infrastructure in your city like you know as much as I hate the jackhammers tearing up the streets and building real bike Lanes you know if you use it as as as an excuse to do that you are going to avoid the white elephant syndrome if you build you know massive you know monor rails in the middle of nowhere uh to have you know kind of Olympic Village access the uh Olympic facilities you’re going to be wasting money and creating you know post-apocalyptic scenery in the time we have just a few seconds a final snapshot of what Vivian just said starting with you an who’ll be here for the course of the Olympics who’ll be following the footsteps of parisians and disappearing we always leave for the summer so we’re not changing our plans Buu I’ll be in the US yeah I won’t be in Paris I tell you I’ll be in Paris of course perfect optimism thank you viven Pierre and bosu join us this time in seven days for the world next week