Dundee City Council Committee Meetings – 13th May 2024

Find the agenda for these meetings here: https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/reports/calendar

e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay I make that 5:00 so we want to make a start so Mr Man can I ask you to uh make the statement that you always make at the start please thank you convener welcome to this meeting of dundy City council’s children families and communities committee which is being held remotely in terms of section 43 of the local governance in Scotland act 2003 all members and attendance are able to fully participate in the meeting which is being live streamed should any member need to leave the meeting for any reason can they please use the chat to advise of this if a member loses their connection they should make every effort to rejoin the meeting but if this is not possible the committee Services officer will note their absence for the remainder of the meeting if you have to leave the meeting due to a declaration of interest you must remain out of the meeting until invited back in would all members please mute their microphones when not speaking to avoid background noise and turn off any smart speakers please start the meeting with your camera on your face will appear on the screen when you are speaking if your connection is poor You may wish to turn your camera off and see if this improves matters if this doesn’t help you may wish to quickly leave the meeting and rejoin if you you wish to raise a point of order ask a question speak on any item or move a motion or Amendment please use the chat when the relevant item is called the convener will then invite you to speak would members of the press and public please not post messages in the chat where items are for noting or where there has been no disagreement expressed the convenor will call for any member who has a cont view to indicate this through the chat otherwise the item will be agreed please would members not use the chat for any other purposes as those joining the meeting by telephone cannot see the chat and therefore will not be able to follow the debate although we are operating in a different way this is still a formal meeting of the committee and requir standards of behavior and discussion are the same as in a face-to-face meeting standing orders will apply to the proceedings and the terms of the counselor’s code of conduct will also apply in the normal way does any member have any queries regarding this procedure there are no queries convenor so I’ll now ask the committee Services officer to take a roll call for the minute thank you thank you as indicated onless he roll call for the minute I would ask that members confirm their presence when I call their names I’m here councelor Alexander I’m also here councelor Anderson p and good evening Lord proest pres Deputy Lord provis Cardell present Bailey Dawson I’m here councelor ala I’m present councelor Flynn good evening I’m here councelor Lynn present Aly Roberts good evening I’m here okay councilor Rome good evening I’m here Bailey sores yes I’m here penor short here thank you councelor Smith good evening I’m here celor toand hi Bailey Keenan present can CRI Shank can Crick shank Al Mar has absent no she no she’s here she’s here apologies I think there’s a problem with it equipment today thank you Bailey right councelor finan good evening I’m here councelor mcure present councelor McAn present councelor Malone I’m here thank you councelor scullin present councelor shears present Al D present okay Bailey mcferson good evening present councelor colan good evening councelor Kon here I’ve received apologies for councelor Duncan Billy Scott here Mrs mcen I’m here thank you Mrs little good evening I’m here yeah Mr Gibson yep Miss Barkley hello I’m here Mr Anderson mckin sorry Mrs mvit jant Mr Anderson mcginness Mark is absent and Miss orchardson I’ll also Mark as absent and that concludes the r call okay thank you Lan I do see uh in the chat that a couple couple members were mentioning that they have one or two issues with um the it tonight so um I will try and be as patient as I can um and hopefully anything works perfectly but there is any issues just put it in the chat and we’ll make sure that we can get to you where necessary um but Al can we start with the agenda please thank you convener item one Declaration of interest can I ask if any members have any declarations to the agenda as it stands no I’m not seeing MD coming in and unfortunately I think my camera stopped working so I’m just going to switch my camera off um but I don’t see MD coming in thank you item two third religious representative on the children families and communities committee committee asked to agree the terms of the note okay um are we happy just to agree this note not seeing everything otherwise okay item three t a plan for children young people and families Grant fund update I’d like to advise the committee that section five Priority One should need Early Learning in child’s care and not Early Learning Center is listed on the the report okay thank you for that uh counc K shank I see you have your hand up thank you convener I’ve transferred to me mobile phone so I’m hoping that you can hear me yeah we can hear you fine oh excellent because I still can’t get the camera on um okay I’d like to welcome this report and thank the officers for bringing it Forward um I have a few uh comments I’d like to me um the plan I understand that the plan will continue for 2425 with 50% funding uh however there are plans to continue are there any plans to continue any of the good work that’s started through the trick when there was no funding after March 2025 um and just to point out that we’ve already seen a reduction in the sack funding uh and soon that will be coming to an end um I think this is a second or third year we’re getting reduced by 1.3 million uh we’ve lost 2 3 uh full-time equivalent teaching posts what else are we going to lose from education thank you okay I’ll ask Mrs May to respond thank you convenor and and thank you councelor K shank for the questions and possibly um the first part of the question is more appropriate for me to answer around the work that would continue so um as committee is aware The Rook has consisted of the three local authorities working together that’s dang is in pared alongside police and NHS T side so that’s been the partnership um ongoing now for six seven years and the priorities um that we work to have been the priorities that are contained within the tside integrat plan for children young people and families and that plan uh the the cycle in the version of that that we’re in the middle of just now goes up to 20 26 so absolutely we will continue to work on these priorities beyond the funding at the end of 20 March 25 so I suppose what what’s the overarching message here is that we found a new way of working um through the Rick work H it’s it’s work that is is really paying great dividends in terms of adding value by working together in those Partnerships and those collaborations but also avoiding duplication so with or without funding I can assure you the commitment from the three local Authority directors our lead officers in police Scotland and our leads for NHS side have that commitment to to carry on that ongoing working and to find ways continually where we add value by coming together and also avoid duplication also lots of the work um that we started all these years ago needed extra resource and extra people to get them kick started but um as you as you’ll know by a lot of this work now has become mainstreamed embedded and what we need to do is to continue to implement and we do that at a local level because we’re all still responsible for our own local Authority so um even with the reduced funding we have had to pair back but we’ve had to look at the work that we’d want to do um in in in the spirit of real Regional collaboration and we’ll continue to do that I’d like to give um our committee that assurance that the people in the leadership group that we that we work together with will continue to do that work and we just need to look at what we can address this year’s funding too and beyond that what would we take from mainstream funding if we really wanted to continue some of the work and as you can see from the report the virtual campus is right up there as one of the priorities because it impacts this year on over 150 young people Learners across both per angas and dunde you happy with that coun shank uh yes I’m very happy with um the response from uh Mrs me um but Following on um given that this was one of John s’s um uh focuses when he was a minister for Education um would it be appropriate to go back to him see they reconsider uh given you know the previous cuts that were already taken um to to to reinstall this valuable element of uh improving our educational outcomes thank you okay well thank you Council C shank and certainly um I see the leader Administration wants to come in and he will come in shortly however just to confirm as you know I think as many members on this committee are aware we’re not slow and going forward and approaching government so certainly uh with the change of um first Minister recently uh as you’ll be aware we will be at the Forefront of speaking to uh ministers and talking about what they can do to support the initiatives in dunde so uh that’s certainly something that is ongoing and will continue to ongo and can I just say I’m welcome um labor support for trick um and that wasn’t always the case when we discussed this previously so certainly pleased to see the change in tone from the labor group and certainly for for this and uh certainly we will continue to um challenge the government to support initiatives in dunde uh bill mcferson I see you have the next comment uh you’re on mute frer sorry my apologies I unmuted myself and then should mute myself back again which wasn’t too clever anyway thanks convenor I’m glad that you’re saying that you’re at the Forefront because I think we do have to be at the Forefront in terms of the fact that we have to recognize that uh frankly this funding is falling off a cliff between 2324 and 2425 funding we’re talking about a million pounds disappearing and I do not doubt for one moment that officers as exemplified by what Mr may had to say will’ll do everything they can to ensure that the uh good work of the TSI Regional Improvement collaborative and the good practice continues but the reality is you’re you’re you’re you know this year 379,000 next year zon zil nil so I would specifically ask that the committee agrees tonight to ask that the chief executive or indeed the uh executive director of children family service I’m not don’t I’m not PR as to which officer it is but one wrs to on behalf of the committee um to the new first Minister uh Council KR shank made a very reasonable point about the commitment that John swinny said he was making to education and I think it’s really a a case of uh ensuring that that con that commitment continues and that commitment involves funding at the end of the day all too often I’ve been on this Council 23 years and all too often we have initiatives that create good work that make real achievements and then the pun funding is pulled it happens far too often from Scottish government and I think in this case I certainly would hope that you would agree convenor that we ask the chief executive or the executive director to write to the new first Minister uh if you’re not wanting to do so um then I I’m quite happy to move something to that effect but I don’t see this as something that’s particularly party political we all all 29 of us wantan to see the best for uh children and young people um in the city and I hope that we can agree that the chief executive or the executive director rights to the first minister in that regard thank you convenor yeah no thank you b f you know as I said an apologies I still have my camera off because my camera doesn’t appear to be working properly as I said you know we already are start making as part of administration representatives to the government and I’m more than happy if uh uh one of the officers whether it’s Mrs May or Mr kogan uh wants to do that I’m grateful for that and obviously I dare say the letter and the response in due course will be circulated so I’m I’m grateful for that convenor thank you okay councelor Alexander you wish to come in yes thanks convener um I think certainly supportive of that ongoing engagement and as you’ll recall you and I both raised that with the education uh minister or cabinet secretary I should say uh on site of the East End Community campus last time she was in the city so we’re not backwards and coming forwards but I think it needs to I need to make one further Point here given councelor CRI shank’s comments because the changes that we’ve seen were supported in the Scottish Parliament by the labor party and were also supported through Cosley by every single labor leader there was one person that didn’t agree or support the changes to attainment and that was me so I did comment at the time I think it was on the back of comments by counselor Mana as he was at that point in time that it’s all well and good making uh you know making representations after the horse has bolted but I think the support earlier on would have been far more advantageous so the point I’d like to make is rather than simply writing to the first Minister who as we know uh represents a minority government I think we should be writing to every single party leader leader to make sure that the broader spectrum of political representation in this Scot Parliament understands the ramifications for the decision that was made CU it was not made simply by the SNP it was endorsed by opposition parties so I would very much welcome writing to John swiny and as you’ve already said we’re happy to do that but I would likewise hope that um other groups were able to make representations within their own party structures because that is the way in which we can make Headway in this conversation and I would also just want to make a couple of other points now uh I’ve not shied away from the fact I think that wasn’t a good decision uh and I made those points very clearly at the time I think the city uh very justifiably requires more resource to tackle those issues all related to social deprivation and some of those challenges that we all know very well but it’s also worth acknowledging how significant the education budget or the children families budget in the in the broadest possible sense is it’s approximately 50% of the overall Council budget it incre inreased by 10.1% or 20 million uh in the last budget cycle and not withstanding that point there is H continued funding that’s devolved to our schools which is making an impact there’s the expansion of free School meals the extension of the 1140 nursery hours uh and all of those do have an impact so I’m first and foremost always going to advocate for more resources but it’s also about acknowledging some of the good stuff that has been delivered across schools nurseries in Dundee and say collectively that this is about broader representation and making sure all political parties practice what they preach thanks convor no thank you counc alander I think that was a point well made uh Billy Keenan thanks k um obviously welcome the fact that there’s an agreement to write to uh uh the john s in relation to the the cuts that he’s making on this and I’d obviously urge that we remind him of the the cuts that have been made to attainment challenge and the number of teachers and staff that have seen theel out of a job uh over the last few years to do that I mean the leader of the council can say yeah here’s the money it goes into education but the fact is 30 teachers got cut under his watch uh that as well as the attainment challenge has been cut endlessly and whils he says and and having got a problem with him he was may be the only one that uh stood up and and Co that it’s like turkey’s broken for Christmas though when it comes to other authorities that look to get money for dunde at the same time and the whole thing was set up by the Scottish government uh to deliver cash to others and take it away for us uh so I’m happy uh even to to write individuals inin the labor party and seek uh that they uh address uh as soon as they have that opportunity and and it’s good if the leader of the council to acknowledge that they’ll be changed soon and others will be delivered thank you for that Billy Keenan with that I don’t see mg else wishing to come in so can this report be agreed okay okay L thanks convener item four senior phase levers update okay uh Council K I see you have a question so I’ll bring you in thank you convenor um thanks um for this report there’s a lot of positive information especially about positive destinations for young people which is excellent and our group obviously support all the work that’s going in in in terms of that um in terms of the kind of next steps that was in paragraph six um they mention um the implementation of the School’s attendance strategy um now obviously I don’t think this is unique to dunde I think this is a widespread thing of a minority of peoples across Scotland having really poor and low attendances and I was just wondering officers could give me an indication kind of what measures um are going to be taken uh for this inclusion because obviously it is a matter of priority to get these kids back into school and I granted it’s not just for dunde I accept this is a Scottish wide issue and but just what are we doing um in terms of a c okay I’ll pass over to Mrs May in the first case but you might want to to pass other officers yeah thanks convenient and than for the question councelor Kon I will um pass to to Paul flemon that’s head of Education to answer that one thank you that’s great thank you um for the question um councelor Kon uh we actually in dund as part of every dundy learner matters or focuses you’ll be aware on our 3ps and to ensure that all young people are present participate and make progress in their learning so presence which is about School attendance but not just that it’s about making sure when young people do attend that they are engaged fully in their in their learning um as well so it’s a key priority for us and actually timely I probably would have been able to answer this better after tomorrow but we have a head teacher learning together development day tomorrow where first two hours is focus on developing and and and finalizing if you like the draft of that actual attendance strategy so we have education Scotland’s a team advisor in attendance tomorrow to share the latest and best research based on the national policy National guidance learning from elsewhere our head teachers will then work together to develop that um I see um David Gibson online as well we’re work very closely with our unions because the reasons for um poor attendance are multifaceted there are lots of different reasons so we have to work it’s not just with us in education work very um closely with our social work colleagues as well with our CLD colleagues too so it will be an all-encompassing um strategy which will be implementing from August 2024 to improve um School attendance one thing schools will um do individually though every single school will have a school inquiry group and every single School must have a school inquiry group focused on improving the School attendance of young people in the school um given um the high priority it is for us as City in addition to that we’ll work very closely with our earlier sector where attendance is not compulsory um to see how we can strengthen the use of data to get those good habits of School attendance in place before young people come into primary one and of course lastly we need to very work very closely with our families um as well because it’s obviously the the parents and carers have a significant part to play in improving School attendance so the attendance strategy is being developed over the remaining weeks of the center and will be put into play and fully from August um of next year and we’ll look forward to update committee with regards the impact of that attendance strategy as we move forward next year Council CR okay are you happy with that response yes thanks Kier we just as a group look forward to hearing the K strategy and also know Mr and Mr May can’t say more just now and but obviously we just spoke about this in our group and there’s a lot of great things in that report and again really good work from the education department as always but just always looking forward to what we can do in the future so we look forward to seeing that and thank for response Mr okay thank you so um Council K I wish you had your hand up put it down and put it back up so um I think you were just in previously before Bailey Keenan so I will let you in at this point H thank you convener um I’d like to welcome the very positive report that shows there lots of improvement however I would like to ask about any specific work that’s going to happen to Target our care experience puers to improve the outcomes for them uh and also it’s good to see the Improvement in the positive destination and T Vine um and i’ like to know what are we going to do to continue that the national average thank you for okay again I’ll pass Mrs May again a special pass to Mr Fleming so whichever one of you two you wants to go yeah thank you conven and thanks again for the question questions councelor KR shank and thank you for the observing the positives in this this um report as well and seen improvements and recognizing that which is really reassuring and but I will pass to to Paul flemon to give you a detailed answer to your questions thank you um thank you and thank you again councelor Kring for your uh comments and indeed your questions so in terms of our care experience young people it’s not a homogenous group so we have as you know um care experienced young people who are looked after at home looked after in our children’s homes in kinship and fostering arrangements and so on so we have a lot of different actions and plans in place to support our young people we do both as you referenced we do have specific plans what I will see is uh within our school settings working very closely with um Glen ly head of um Children’s Service Community Justice and other partners we have our MCR so our mentoring Pathways um it’s it’s an award-winning mentoring program we still have these in place in our in our secondary schools and our clusters we have our psws our pupil support workers for our care experien young people um only as well we have those available in our clusters we’re further strengthening the Champions board which is a really important part of our children and family services Improvement plan about giving voice um to the young people and make sure we’re not doing what we think is right and the next step that we’re listening to those young people to make sure we get it right for them and that is heavily supported our chief executive our executive director myself and and Glen both attend those as well but as I sort of allude to there we’re working very very closely um with across the the council and indeed many partners to make sure that we get it right so as part of what we’re kind of terming EduCare myself and Glenn and our teams are working together to make sure that every single young person in the city irrespec of whether they’re looked after home in in one of our houses or indeed in any kinship Arrangement that we know exactly the attendance the participation and the progress of each young people and we’re tracking those individually um to get a consistency and a more consistent outcome for all of our care experienced young people across the city the attendance strategy that I referenced in the previous question to council Kon will also have very specific actions to improve the um attendance of our young people in the city who are care experienced because we are a corporate parent and that is our responsibility so hopefully that gives you a flavor in relation to care uh in relation to care experienced okay you happy with that CC KCK shank H yes thank okay uh ba ke sorry Qui J yeah you finished yeah okay Billy ke thanks convenor Mr flamman uh really mentioned something there in relation to um corporate parents and the role that we play as corporate parents and I think it’s vly important that we should look at positive destinations and you I might well be the one that’s a bit cynical uh when I when I read uh the sort of pos positive destinations and in this report it looks extremely good uh and and that we’ve improved yeah last month uh we we had a a report at City governance committee uh step change in positive destination for young dorians and within that report it mentioned that we have the lowest Poss positive destination outcomes of any local Authority in Scotland so you know whilst we read on this report it’s looking marvelous we had another report last month where it looked terrible so you know what’s the bit the ordinary done Dons should be looking at uh and you know what’s what’s the real difference between these two reports one saying you know we’re the worst in Scotland and this one saying this is marvelous and it isn’t it good but made a real difference because I think the orary members of the public need to understand you know what what are we focusing what are we working on no and I think it’s important that we all understand that as well so Mr Flemin do you want to respond to that thank you um convenor thank you ba ke I think it’s a really really important question in in education um that Scottish government publish um twice a year they they publish um information a data related to positive destinations and that information is what um HMI his Ma’s inspectors um will quality assure and evaluate to school on that data set that data set is um taken every year in October oober and it looks at the initial positive destination so it’s called initial lever destinations so it looks at the positive destinations of any young person who is a school lever so whether they left in fourth year or fifth year and sixth year it will look to see if they’ve gone on to a positive destination so that is the data set that our schools are judged on for one of a better phrase so for the data that’s in your report it’s data from October 2023 and it’s looking at all of the young people who left school in 202 22 and 2023 so it’s a data set that’s published nationally the Scottish government published and it’s a data set that education scotlands his Majesty’s inspectors used to evaluate the effectiveness of a school so that data set is the one where 13 local authorities went down and dundies improved and dundes was the second highest Improvement of all 32 authorities so our our young people leaving school in S4 S5 S6 did to go into a positive destinations wider than that SDS skills development Scotland worked with Scot government and they look at the wider cohort of 16 to 19 year olds so it’s not just the ones that have left school they look at all 16 to 19y olds in any particular local Authority there those young people may be in our schools those young people might have left when they were 16 and and been and are still in University or college at 19 they might have been in four jobs or they might have left it will also look young people who’ve maybe come down from Aberdine and went to dundy UNI and those young people might be 16 to 19 but they’re inner city so it’s 16 19y olds who are living in Dundee and that’s that’s the that’s the data that you saw in the previous report that went to I think the city governance uh committee that’s looking at the wider Court of 16 to 90 rules at snapshot on time that’s published every August to do to inter measures and that’s looking at those who are still in a positive destination whether that’s School employment or training so some of those young people who leave school to go to college they may drop out after two years and um that that won’t be counted positively obviously in the SDS one but the the report you have before you tonight is the school’s first job is to get that young person into a positive destination and then our job as a city is to make sure that that’s the right one so that we sustain that positive destination and all young people moving into the city also get a positive destination so hopefully that helps clarify the difference between the education positive participation measure and the SCS and Scottish government wider 16 to 19 year old participation measure okay B Kean you want to thanks for that I I’ll obviously raise my concerns with the authors of the other report uh you obviously i’ want to see how that was fed in and you know how we monitor people if you know if if education only monitor for two years and they monitor a bit more I I would obviously like to that’s that level of clarification but perhaps uh Mr press would be the person that should’ take the question to yeah Paul’s looking at coming again I think yeah Mr Flem yeah if if you mind thank you very much H thanks ba Keenan so so obviously our school’s initial job is to monitor the young people in their care um but actually as a city um our head teachers are are again um senior leaders in city and I have been involved in Mr Presswood um board all along and worked very closely with them as has Mr Lloyd who’s on the call as well to look at going how do we get and I see Marie Dy here too has been involved in that group how do we all work together to make sure that our young people leave school and go on to the right opportunity at the right time for that young person and so that they’re not just leaving school the end of fourth year but it’s something that are going to stay in a positive destination for and that work starts at a really early age not just in secondary school so that plan that was presented at committee we are fully involved in and fully support and schools will play a key part in that as well um our our CLD college and others in children’s services to make sure that our young people um are tracked from while they’re in school and all the way and beond but we all need to work together to do that it’s a it’s a city’s job to do that and we’re fully bought into that as an education department within the Children and Family Service than you both okay thanks Mr FL thanks B ke for the question um I don’t see mg else wishing to come in so with that can that be approved okay okay alen thank you convener at this Junction juncture external members of the committee will depart takes us to item five education Scotland Community Learning and Development progress visit report and you have the report before you okay thanks before I bring in uh members I just want to say um I think this is obviously this is a really good report and I think um it’d be appropriate for the committee and I hope all the committee agree um that we should be saying our thanks to all the staff who uh in our communities Department um for the work that they do um this report uh this inspection report is you know the the highest grade possible that you can receive and indeed um you know I know that several of the the things that the the communi team do um have been identified and put forward nationally for Effective practice and I think that shows great credit um to all the work that the staff do so hopefully uh speaking on behalf of the committee that we can make sure that’s P the staff our thanks for the work that they do and the support they do um know Council Smith and I have have gone out to see several kind of these initiatives for ourselves and we’ll doing some more in the future and I think one of the things that recently reflected on was speaking to service users um and the impact and the the support that all these initiatives uh help them with is truly transformational and was quite emotional listening to some of the the the support that um the Serv users get and the changes that’s helped to their Liv so I think this is a a really fantastic report and as I said I think uh staff should be commended for all the the great work that they do um Council Coleman um I see you come in first thank you Mr gavina and to Echo much of what you said as comment to say that this is a very positive report indeed and it was extremely reassuring to learn that dund D has merited the the highest grade I think we already knew that the leadership of Community Learning and Development was strong and effective but it is good to see education Scotland recognized this so on behalf of our group um all staff and volunteers deserve much congratulations for this and for the continuing good work and work being undertaken at the moment no and thank you for that Council Coleman uh councelor Anderson thank you convenor at the risk of echoing what you said even more I’ll carry on um it is just this report recommends that we note the outcome of the visit and we acknowledge the work of the Community Learning and Development partnership and I think maybe we should be seing we celebrate the work of the Community Learning and Development partnership I mean this is basically seeing the leadership strong and effective that we’re tackling poverty and inequality in a highly effective way um the community planning Partnerships are active and engaged new Scots are much more integrated into the community and have increasing networks of support is this fantastic line where it says there were no areas for improvement identified you can’t really do better than that and the great thing is there’s three areas of work where um we’re going they’re going to be working with dunde so that we can develop case studies for National Improvement so it’s just a brilliant report well done to all the team and please Mar make sure that everybody really um here’s how pleased you are with what you’re doing you’re making a real difference okay well thank you for those comments I’m sure that will be passed on as well uh councelor K shank H thank you convener I’d like to Echo this Echo the sentiments of the former speakers um an excellent report it is um and myself coming from background of Comm education I can see it come in Full Circle where we are working with people as opposed to doing things for people so excellent work keep it up and here we go uh Community empowerment uh in my days what called Community Development but uh I’m I’m happy with the name CL empowerment if that’s what uh you know the if that’s what the um never mind excellent report thank you very much no and then thank you for comments as well uh councilor Alexander thank you for indulging me conven just to add to what everybody has already said one of the there was many highlights I suppose of Neighborhood Services um that I enjoyed when I was previously convenor of that department but uh communities in particular clld was always one of the particular sweet spots I suppose and of course I’m also reminded of the fact that I was uh the first uh Young Person’s Champion although those days are long since gone and uh councilors Coleman uh well councelor Coleman I think has stolen certainly the crown of the youngest counselor but not withstanding those points I think it is always being clear in my mind that for such a small team they really do punch above their weight and their extensive work to support young people many of whom suffer the challenges that we know are alive and kicking in every single one of our communities whether that be related to domestic issues or issues of poverty or uh some of the issues we’ve been talking today in terms of educational attainment but our cldd team know these young people they work with them for them and in support of them to realize their full potential and I think what comes through very strongly through this report is that we are blessed uh to have such a uh forward looking um expansive in terms of their knowledge and also their proactivity in that broader agenda and again I just wanted to add my thanks for everything that they do most often they’re not under the radar um but it is incredible to see this kind of report an acknowledgement of something that I think many of us already knew to be true thanks no thank you for that and as I said I’ll ask M to make sure that all those comments are are passed to to staff so they are aware that um the committee um sly recognizes all the good work and appreciates all the good work that staff do with that I don’t see MD else wishing to come in so can this report be noted okay thank you Ken thank you convener item six review of dund D scheme for the establishment of community community councils and you have the report before you okay we have the report in front of you um I think this is just really for noting it’s just the next stage of um the consultation I’m not seeing MD want to comment so can this just be agreed okay that’s agreed and with that I think that’s the business so thank you all thank you convenor the next committee is the neighborhood regeneration housing and Estate Management committee good evening and uh is started elen over to yourself thanks very much convener item one is Declaration of Interest are there any declarations to the agenda as it stands a few seconds uh Jack counc fenan please and councilor shares next hi it’s just for transparency to see the item three my address is one of the addresses um identified right thank you and coun sharers uh yeah my street is on item five so just a declaration in there non-financial just in case right thanks very much Pete and coun KR sh so You’ got a question you’re muted Geor I’m not having a good night with technology here you have a question yeah yeah um just to say I’m grateful for for the briefing I had fromo and the executive director T bone this morning sorry Georgia we’re not started yet we’re still doing decorations at the moment all right sorry sorry sorry about that I thought was something else sorry about uh elen can we just move on please thanks convenor item two housing repairs and reelect recovery plan and you have the report before you have ort and Forest to approve the proposed report approach to addressing existing backlog in housing repairs and the focus is on making Construction Services focused for 20 weeks uh to reduce the void number of working with along to modernize and design and delivery of the repair service before us so I see well Kevin I see you got amendments so I’ll ask the committee services to put that out and I’ll go to Billy mcf and I’ll come back to you later Kevin to talk on thanks convenor I actually asked this question at group leaders and um I I would be grateful because I’m not here further and I would be grateful for clarification it doesn’t it’s not necessary that we get this uh for the purposes of uh um agreeing to this report it’s more from the point of view of information because at financial implications in Para 3 it indicates where uh the costs are going to come from uh to the point to the tune of 4.84 five million what the report doesn’t actually indicate is what it’s actually going to be spent on now we not it’s on on the general principle of necessary repairs and maintenance work I think we all uh understand that but what is not there is a breakdown of the types of work cost per trade for example the the the the split between various trades but also if there are any other costs included in that 4.84 five million such as for example it costs and I think it might just be useful if we could have if you like the other side of the equation we’ve been given the full information on where the money is coming from but where specifically the money is being spent I think it would be helpful if that is um is is circulated to members convenor okay thank you very much I’ll just ask got circulated at may actually bre it down it’s going to be quite difficult to suggest Billy mcf with regards to the the trades especially because I think it depend on the type of work but I’ll bring in Mr Bo just to confirm you will get a breakdown and all letter members will get that once it’s uh available thans career thanks building first yeah as you’ve intimated it’s a difficult thing to quantify but we’ll certainly provide the response to build F I’m I’m I’m grateful for that I understand that you’re not going to get this dumped to the last tenor on Joiner as opposed to Plumbers or whatever but the bottom line is I think it would be useful if there’s a little bit of information as to where the four it’s a lot of money 4.84 five million may I just make the comment in responding to Mr Bo’s helpful reply that I think the report is generally very um um um positive I think we’ve all had concerns over a an extended period of time about the backlog and the repair service and I congratulate officers for coming forward with this because really having a real purge of this over a relatively short period of what is it 20 weeks I think if if successful and we obviously hope it will be in reducing that backlog I think we will see a step change in the complaints we get from tenants a lot which is about things that have been reported but weeks on haven’t been repaired so you know I I don’t want to appear in any way negative about this I think this is a positive uh report coming forward but I’m grateful to Mr boil and saying that he will bring forward uh a a degree of information as to where that money is going to be spent specifically uh thank you convener no thank you it’s no problem at all I think uh as we move on how and best value group will report back on the performance as well with regards to the the voids and the relets as we go forward which is a positive just going back through here uh councelor KR shank you had a question I think I’ll go back to that was that yourself again with regarding this report yes it’s regarding this report if we do the question first George if that’s okay then we’ll come back to the amendment uh shortly yeah yeah yeah no problem uh like I was saying I was grateful for uh Tony B meeting to give us an update on the on the report uh and like the previous uh speaker said uh it’s a positive youo um but it’s something that’s been in the making since 2020 I remember speaking about it when David Simpson was still here uh but it’s good to see it in black and white and that the actions the actions are not just action point they going to be implemented uh and I know there has been some good work happening H and for example the void uh at 5.4 uh was 542 uh sorry and it been reduced to phone 90 uh including the complex V but today when I met with r and Tony H that’s further reduced to 455 since the rating of the report so uh that’s excellent as well um as suppose the question is uh a 5.1 I’ve lost and the focus are on proving repairs and the reless performance to mitigate Financial another impact uh a range of measures being put in place including utilizing overtime to increase the available trade resource to catch up on the backlog subcontractor Works packages and an equipment drive to the workforce and key areas key trads where are recognized shortages and if I go back to page one uh the staff costs defer the filling of St staff vacancies um if I could have an explanation on that please thank you yeah I think I’ll go back to Tony in the first conance Tony can you want to just clarify what the staff we referring to here rather than natural trades please yeah thanks good thanks councelor trick shank as you’ll see at 3.1 of the report we talking about staff cost and defending the fil staff vacancies at 200k this relates to um simply a deferment of recruitment at this stage because at the same time as we’re doing this we’re looking at the introduction of increased technology around civan I think called total mobile which looks at duplic function so that will explain why we’re um looking at this moment in time to allow us to focus in on the crucial aspect of repairing V going forward okay thank you that and your question Jordan can I have a supplement please uh yeah go ahead yeah just in terms of the it um what are we doing in in terms of um those that are not uh that are digitally excluded and not everybody um you know knows how to use a computer whatever so what what action are we taking to ensure that they they get the same very Point yeah a very good question and I think it’s going to be addressed by the officers with generally with it across the council but again Tony were you okay with this one yes can thanks being counc yeah we’re aware that there’s a a distinct cohort within a residents who are maybe not it literate are used to using that type of technology so we’ve been looking at how we support um our own staff for additional trading with customer services and also to support those residents and through contact by phone to support them inquiries P okay thank you uh moving on I see Billy Keenan you have a question as well I think yes yeah the question is in relation to the the the half a million pounds what the staff that will switch over the capital plan and and as to how uh what what length of term are we talking because that would be £500,000 going on the housing Revenue uh Capital plan each year uh and likely only paid off at a rate of 25,000 uh because that would cover the the the loan charge so we would be growing the growing the capital plan by 475 a year so what’s what’s the Avenue about trying to get rid of that and starting to me it for Revenue again you you want to P it on to someone else yeah with that one I think thanks B I’ll pass to in the first instance clayon and Trump head of hous and construction are you there yeah yes can y okay thank you um to reply um it is very common to include staff who work solely on Capital programs in the capital budget we do have space in the capital budget because um as members will be aware it has been underspent and this is a legitimate cost so um in conjunction with colleagues in finance um within this report we say that we are reviewing the housing Capital program and um and as part of that we’ll consider what costs should be included and capitalized on an ongoing basis and which shouldn’t um and I hope that answers your your question ba Keenan thank you also saw Mr Thompson put his hand up Paul would you like to add anything to that yeah thanks thanks um convenor just to confirm that the financial implications that are included in the report only relate to the current Financial year only so these are for for a oneoff and if there was any requirement to continue funding these additional costs through Capital as Al has already explained um is can be done then that would be factored into the next review of the H budget that we would intend to report back the committee and due course right thank you for that t your question Kevin yeah yeah well says that we’ll we’ll grow the we’ll grow the debt by 470,000 but you know we need to address the problem so I’m I’m not going to divide on that well thanks very much uh I see your Amendment there I think we’ll take maybe a five minute recess CU it’s quite in depth and I honest I can’t see it on my computer I’ve got in the moment I’m going have to look at another one uh so I think we’ll take a 5 minute recess and uh come back and then we’ll let you speak to the amendment then okay if that’s okay cheers so we’ll return at uh 52 roughly okay thank you e e e e e confirm everyone’s back at that time Alain could you check to make sure everyone’s back please and can we take off this Ken as well if that’s okay thank you thanks thanks convener everyone has returned to the meeting thanks very much thanks for everyone I think it was helpful to just have that be a few minutes just to read the the amendment in detail and I’ll go back to Bailey Keenan to speak on it and come back to counc KR shank after that for a second then Kevin yeah okay um I thought the the the motion itself relatively self-explanatory uh obviously we raised uh five issues previously a number of these have been addressed and obviously we have uh the action plan to address repairs and we have the action plan to address the voids uh which is to be welcome uh we also have changes that the government has made to land and valuation tax that uh you know would make a difference and I suppose I might want to look at what we’ve actually paid over the years to them and and wouldn’t it be a bad idea to ask it back given that the government obviously made Moves when uh they uh applied to the UK government to get vat back that was spent on police and fire I think that well else we bring the voids in and Haven spoke to officers that uh when we reduce the number of voids we’ll have somewhere in the region another 300 uh families in houses and that’s to be welcomed I think the fact though that we’ve got 7,800 or thereabouts on a waiting list uh even bringing these voes back in is they’re going to make a real deal difference knowing that the government’s cut the the uh affordable housing Grant is going to have an effect on dunde and the number of houses that it’s able to build and we need to accept that there is a housing emergency uh and go about making doing whatever we can to address the problem indeed that would be speaking the government and looking for uh additional funding and for them to reverse the cuts that they’ve made in the affordable housing Grant so I’ll leave it at that I was hoping that there would be a cross party agreement on this given that I’ve heard others obviously make the comment that uh yeah there’s a housing crisis okay thank you uh Billy sorry counc K we promoted you sorry thank you convina I’ve done a fair bit of H research over the weekend in relation to the Solace report and the Scottish housing regulator who in December uh 2023 St Geor having it problems I don’t know if you can hear us but you seem to have Frozen we’ll give it a few seconds see if it comes back sorry are you still there you just came back there you just came back sorry you froze just after you mentioned regulator great it’s it’s right uh there a systemic failure in the delivery of some local author people experienced by this the mean of honestly the technology Tate is absolutely c um experiencing homelessness by this the the mean a risk that the demands on some Lo authorities could shortly exceed the capacity to respond uh and furthermore this is the the case in dund City no we don’t acknowledge well the first the first part of acknowledging that there’s a problem uh it’s halfway to solve them the problem um so I would expect that there would be cross party support and uh call in this uh house emergency and I’m going to read from some of uh [Music] shelter’s uh draft extion for a motion um just to to to to highlight the the the comments that councelor Keenan has made B Keenan uh commit to the creation and imple implementation of a house emergency action plan which will draw to together existing strategies and Council teams aligning needs behind the the shared goal of tackling the hous in emergency and as we’ve seen tonight uh the report put forward from um Tony Bo um and in respect of the repairs and Rel uh it’s beginning to happen but there’s further stuff that needs to happen and we need to take into consideration the human rights based approach to delivering the action plan anded participation accountability non-discrimination empowerment and egality into the process and commit to working with communities individuals with lived experience of the housing emergency uh and internal and external part deliver to deliver the action plan and develop solutions to the hous emergency uh I call upon uh this committee uh to agree to call in this a housing emergency and let’s get on with the work that needs to be done to get us out of this situation uh and furthermore for calling on the Scottish government to reverse its decision to put the affordable housing program and make exct fund available to help the council address the houses in emergency thank you thank you uh I’m sorry the it was quite difficult there so I found it quite difficult to hear what you’re saying so hopefully other found it easier but myself it was quite difficult so I’ll take on board and go from there uh I’ve read the the motion has been put in front of us in the amendment sorry and I’m minded at the moment not to declare a housing emergency I think uh some of the points You’ have raised there biley Keenan were actually pertinent in the fact that we’re actually making progress in what we’re actually doing here I’ve actually written to the housing minister in the dfm following the most recent committee was mentioned with regards to the lbtt for example and you’re clearly agreeing with the action plan in front of us to address the repairs and voids is a very positive step for everything in front of us uh I think the waiting list again is a we bit of a deception in some respects we’ll have 7,000 on the waiting list but we don’t have 7,000 homeless we have many many in homes of that 7,000 and I think they’re in relatively good homes personally I think declaring the housing emergency or is very much just words I think I’d like to see more action and I think you would agree that recovery plan we have in front of us is action and I think that’s more important for myself and I think there’s been a variety of reasons why uh we’re in this situation the cost of living crisis for example caused by a government South of the Border creating this chaos we’ve had over recent years humanitarian support the issues with private rent sector uh with regards to this situation the challenges with the level of local housing allowance which is still even though the the chancellor mentioned that at the budget recently has failed to provide any further information and I think the open Mark acquisition things we’re doing in the city are really positive we’re working with others we’ve got an open Mark acquisition we just purchase properties which is the right thing to do and as for myself I’m sitting on a number of uh groups within cosla to make sure we’re actually working with the minister and colleagues in KLA uh from all parties to make sure we can find a solution and a resolution to many of the issues we’ve got in front of us and as for the affordable housing uh program Capital program as you know was cut by the westmin government com to Scotland and for that’s had an impact on our ability from the government uh from the housing Minister provide that funding and I hope they would like to reverse that decision down south and make sure we actually have the funding here uh available to actually allow us to go forward I see C for Shear I think you were next on my list here yes thanks very much convina um I mean we could we could speak all day about who’s to blame who’s doing what whose fault it is but at the end of the day that isn’t what’s going to get our constituents in Better Homes what’s going to get our constituents homes repaired um and I think we’re all in agreement across all parties this is a very good start to the plan and it is a start and we know there are good things going on again I don’t think anyone would disagree with that but what we really need to do is look at the impact that this this is having on our city I’m sure I can speak for most councilors when I say that of my casework housing is the one that takes up most of our time it’s the most uh emotionally invested as well again I’m sure I can speak to most of us when people have been in tears when they talk about their housing issues um it’s all well and good to say that the housing list is indeceptive but the housing list is the housing list it’s 7,000 people um I’m sure the population of dundy last I checked was about 140,000 happy to be corrected that’s 5% of our citizens on the housing list and for us to say okay things are going on it’s a start we’re burying our heads in a stand in the Sand by saying it’s not an emergency because it is it is an emergency it’s the biggest challenge facing our city just now I think and we can’t go on pretending that it’s not saying yes we’re doing things and we are doing things and again I’m sure I speak for all of us when we say that the housing team are doing excellent work with the um funding that they have to get this sorted as best they can but it’s not just words declaring an emergency it comes with an action plan we need to show people that this is this is what we’re doing for you we know the housing situation isn’t acceptable at the moment this is what we are doing so I’d ask you again to reconsider and accept the motion please conven well thanks for your comments I I agree with you’re saying we shouldn’t speak all day about this I actually agree and I think as I said earlier I think words are really important here we really should be doing action and this is what this is this is the start of a program to make sure that we actually do take action and I think we’ve got plans in place again I think we’re bringing a forward a housing Symposium in the end of June bringing in major players within the city and Beyond to make sure we actually get them all together find out Solutions locally and see what we can do going forward to build towards our local housing strategy which will be coming to the committee later this year and I think it’s really important and I thank you for acknowledging the good work that the teams are doing within the Departments because I think again just declaring this emergency if you want to call it that put basically saying they’re not doing their job properly for example and various other actions they might take this is not the priority the wording the priority is to make sure we actually get the work done we get the void back in we’ve got nearly 500 voids in this in the report it states and I think it’s important we get that work done then come back in another time and we can reconsider possibly that the action taken to see if it’s worthed to see what the improvements are uh so I’m still minded at the moment not to take on the actual amendment I see councilor Malone you’re next thank you convenor um I don’t think it was anybody intimate any uh criticism of the hardworking staff who are at the front end of dealing with what is housing crisis and maybe Mark you’ve decided to suggest and I’m sure he didn’t mean it this way but to suggest that people that are on the waiting list are actually in good homes and that was your words some of them in good homes we can’t determine whether or not the quality of these homes are good or bad what we can determine quantitatively is that as Pete said our inbox is full of people who are saying they’re living in inadequate housing not homeless necessarily but in inadequate housing when it comes to meeting the requirements of their family and I think to suggest that that somehow that we’re we’re moving forward at a great pace and we we’ve managed to kind of bring on board a few hundred houses I don’t think is going to offer any comfort to the constituents that are on the phone to me today to say that they’re living in intolerable C they’ve got a house but it’s intolerable in a sense it doesn’t meet the requirements of them or their family so I think to suggest I don’t I wouldn’t accuse you of trying to belittle the experience of that they lived in experience of people in the city but to suggest that people many people your words are living in good homes I think belies the status of those people who require housing affordable housing housing of a quality and housing of a standard that meets the requirements of themselves and their families and we also know from other reports such as the antisocial Behavior report that poor housing is often at the heart of antisocial Behavior so I think um I’d like to focus on your the positive comments you make but I think that we have to be realistic this is a crisis it may not be a crisis for anybody watching this from the that’s in the chambers but for people’s lived experience this is a crisis and we shouldn’t shy away from using that language that’s for your comment uh counil short for yourself please you’re on mute I can’t couldn’t get myself off mute there I’m another one of those ones having a bit of a nightmare with my technology tonight um conven I just wanted to um perhaps focus a a little bit on um where we are as a city um 26 square miles uh Within These 26 square miles um we have tenures of all types um we’ve obviously got Council housing we’ve got private housing we’ve got Med Market housing we’ve got rsls we’ve got owner occupiers and across that that’s housing in the city uh this report today that you’re talking about is looking at basically our portfolio um and the focus has to be on housing across the city and that’s where I’m really quite excited about next month and the housing Summit because I think we have to look at every single one of our constituents and look at what actually is necessary for the city it’s a jigsaw and this is part of the jigsaw and this is this is good to see this coming forward but we need to be making sure that we’re looking at it across the board um do we have children in the correct places and talk there about the fact that there’s someone living in housing that isn’t adequate for their family perhaps there’s someone who is living in a house that is too big for their family we need to look at it from a much more holistic point of view and this is a starting point but I um I see people shaking their heads and it is very much the case of we cannot just look at Council housing and I isolation we have to look at all of the housing across all of the city to understand what the needs are and how we take it forwards this is the way to start and continue on this committee was pulled together so that housing was very much the focus the first Minister has talked about his focus on child poverty child poverty and the housing that a child lives in are the most important things so this is definitely a point in the right direction it’s not about emergency it’s about getting things done and that’s what we’re doing thank you and thanks for your comments I think it’s going back again to the report itself that housing repairs really like putting 4.8 million into doing this is obviously a positive direction and positive for every one of our tenants and again you’re absolutely right we only over 12 and a half thousand the properties of dundy are Council we work with colleagues and partners and other rsls it’s really important we all work together and hence the Symposium at the end of June we’ll be very much welcomed I’m sure by them to have that that open conversation and build up for a local housing strategy going forward Billy mcferson please uh can I first of all say that in terms of procedure convenor you’ve never had a seconder for your um uh motion to reject the labor Amendment perhaps you might just want to go ahead with that before I make my comments thank you very much for reminding me B first and could I have a second or please see councilor sharp has agreed to that okay thank you okay in which case I’ll I’ll I’ll proceed uh the liberal Democrat group will be supporting uh the labor Amendment because it is self-evident that there is a housing emergency in dunde um it is self-evident frankly there’s a housing emergency in large parts of Scotland if we supported the labor Amendment tonight we would be the sixth Council in Scotland which includes the two largest cities Edinburgh and Glasgow and three other councils who have already declared housing emergencies and the situation across Scotland has the support of the Stu shelter Scotland and the chartered Institute of housing so we are not alone in this and no one would suggesting convenor about people not doing their job properly I have the utmost respect for the uh team in on the housing side in in dundy housing and construction I think they’ve had a massive challenge since the pandemic I think we all recognize that I’ve got a great deal of faith in the leadership of that team but the fact remains that we have are very significant and indeed an emergency situation um the the numbers on the housing waiting list as of today it’s 7,674 people they will be in all sorts of different circumstances but a great many will be overcrowded and inadequate circumstances and councelor Malone uh spoke very well about the lived experience of so many people who are are our his constituents and my constituents and your constituents and the fact of the matter is that the cuts an affordable housing Grant and let’s not even go into who’s to blame because we could just spend the evening criticizing one another there’s nothing to be gained from that the reality however is that that will not assist and not help and I think that um I actually asked for the um the um housing waiting list figures for the last five years and we’ve made no inroads in that time no inroads in fact the figure on the 1st of May 2022 two years ago uh from now was 6,959 so in other words it’s 700 up in terms of people on the waiting list than it was two years ago that’s a that’s a worrying situation by all standards and I commend the officers for bringing home this report today on repairs and relets it’s very necessary and it will make a difference to an extent but I think Bailey Keenan I think it was mentioned the fact that even if you uh resolve the whole realat issue you’re not going to tackle the underlying total issue of the numbers of people who are seeking um adequate housing um in in the city so for that reason I think uh we we can’t afford complacency in this I’m not suggesting anybody in particular is but I think we do have to send a signal about the seriousness of the situation um in the city in terms of uh housing and for that reason we will be strongly supported the labor Amendment tonight thank you convenor no thanks for your comments I think no one’s taking anything for granted here I think I’m sure everyone would agree that the team do an exceptional job under the challenges they do have challenges much of what’s been put Upon Us by external measures but I think this again going back to the actual report in front of us as a step in the right direction I think the word in between declaring or whatever you want to declare is important in this particular case we need to go on with the work and the works are really the important part of this actions are more important uh Billy Sawyers please yeah thanks convenor I’ll be very brief um I was speaking about pressures and housing to a colleague a former counselor in a neighboring local Authority who was first elected in 1980 and you know it’s not about putting the blame on who did what or who didn’t do what it’s analyzing the problem and looking at what’s cre greater numbers of public housing and what’s reduced numbers of public housing and my colleague who was elected in 1980 said it’s quite clear it was a thatcher government and the right to buy because if I remember correctly about that time dundy had probably more than twice the number of council houses than it does now and that absolutely decimated the stock in Dundee you only have to wonder about some of our housing Estates and you can almost tell which of the properties are now private rented out because they’re invariably not always and there are some very very good landlords in the city there are a number who just let the properties deteriorate rack in the rent and frankly don’t really care about their tenants and that that is a huge issue and it acts as a a d downward um downward pressure on a number of streets in the city so I think we have to look at that we then have to reflect that and there’s been a bit of reflection in the past week or so it’s 25 years since the Scottish Parliament was set up and of course there were Devolution of a number of powers not as many as you and I would like caner but amongst them was was housing and um within that power over the right to buy and for eight years convenor we had a labor lip Dam Scottish executive that did nothing nothing whatsoever about the right to buy it just sat there and they said oh T policy oh well we’re not going to do anything with that and as you’ll remember convenor it took the election of an SNP government to abolish the right to buy so I think when we’re looking at causes and effects maybe abolishing the right to buy as been quite important and reflecting back as well and people say yes there were lots of Housing Association houses built and I appreciate that but we’re talking about councils at the moment and in that 8-year period with the labor Liv Dam Scotch executive there were six Council houses built in whole of Scotland that’s less than one a year so if people want to talk about problems with Council housing maybe they want to look in the mirror convenor thank you very much and there very many pertinent points here into the situation and the issues we’re in at the moment so thank you very much for that b sawers uh just to move on uh we’ll just go to the vote elain please thanks cany now so the motion by the convenor seconded by councel short is that the report be agreed to submitted the amendment by Bailey Keenan seconded by councelor cck shank is as circulated and I’ll now take the vote can motion councelor Alexander motion councelor Anderson motion Lord provest motion Deputy Lord provest motion Billy Dawson the motion councelor nler oh sorry about that my computer’s playing up um the motion thank you councelor Hunter motion councelor Lynn motion Bailey Roberts motion coun room motion Bailey SS motion councelor short the motion please councelor Smith a motion PC tuland motion Bailey Keenan Amendment counc Crick shank so it problems may want to come back to I will do convener c fin again ccor MCU Amendment thank you councelor McAn Amendment councelor Malone the very very pertinent Amendment ccor span Amendment councelor shears the amendment Bailey right Amendment Bailey mcferson the amendment ccor colan the amendment councelor Kon Amendment Comm Bailey Scott Amendment and councilor krook shank coun KR shank is put in the chat El that she supporting the amendment connection again fine okay thanks convener that is 15 for the motion and 13 for the amendment so then the motion is carried right thank you very much uh can we move on to the next item please next item three sourcing strategy for the procurement of Works to install retrofit upgrades in the laan area and you have the report before you thank you quite clearly what the report is so I’ll just move on to any comments uh coun k please again sorry Mr I pressed my button too soon it’s meant be for the following item oh it’s okay oh sorry say for my apologies on item three any I see no questions or comments so we’ll take the report as read thank you wa item four reinforced irated autoclaved concrete and homes in Dundee and you have the report before you thank you again it’s quite clear what this is all about the rack and homes and it became clear there was an issue with the type of bilding material elsewhere in the country the council acted very quickly to scope out the extent of issues here in the city and having carried out detailed exercise we have a plan in place to deal with what has been found on a priority basis there’s also letter sent to both owners and tenants of the effective properties and before we move on can I just like to thank uh the teams in both s of development and housing for their work in making sure this work was carried out so I think it was very important and very pertinent to make sure tenants and owners and occupiers were uh understood the situation clearly uh going forward so thank you very much to both teams uh I’ll go back to councelor keman first thank you thank you Mr Gib with regard to the information issued to tenants and also to owners and mixed tenure blocks it indicates costs have not yet been determined owners and mix 10e blocks will naturally be very concerned about the possible level of their share for media works in the future and I’d be grateful for some reassurances about keeping these people updated and assurances about any costs in the future being recovered only in relation to owner financial means given that this will be a wor for the owner’s concerned thank you for the question I’ll go Mr boo first if you want to take or pass on T thanks councelor Co yeah as a report indicates the costs have slightly determined as soon as we’ve got more information we can U advise further as requested okay thank you Z okay Daniel yes I look forward to hearing more thank you okay thank you uh counc Mo please yeah my my comments were very very similar to to Daniel’s I mean I had a significant number of constituents at my surgery on Friday afternoon each of them carrying a letter from the the the council um but it was ke in absence of uh um the kind of drilling down into the different situations that people have got uh it was a very generic letter and that caused some concerns I referred to this report uh said it would be going forward to Wars committee and the report itself contains a lot of good information but I think that the and I understand it the need to get information out to the elector to the public as soon as possible has led to the of very generic uh correspondence which has caused a great deal of concern I’d like to thank Tony in particular and his team for the rapid way they responded to one of the the um constituents who asked me to pass on her gratitude for the Speedy kind of clarification what my question really is is other information will other information be coming forward of a more detailed nature I’m sure it will be given the nature of the report and how soon might um constituents understand learn to understand their particular circumstances and like Daniel it’s about K how much is it going to cost and um how the the the question of cost will be impacted on the the the residents I appreciate that still work under underway but I just thought that the generic letter that went out has caused unnecessary um anxiety amongst many of the the people who are going to be affected by this but again I’d like to thank Tony and his team for the rapid response that they had in terms of dealing with a constituent inquiry today and I look forward to getting the assurances which I’m sure I will that such that information of a more detailed nature and a more specific nature will be available in the future the near future hopefully yep thanks for that I think it’s important we actually did send letters out to all buildings and all tenants and occupiers uh because I think it’s because of the press related to Rack in general across the country and I think it was important we actually get the surveys done the team did a fantastic job making sure we actually got all that done uh to make sure that there was no one put a risk here and I think that’s the important part as you would appreciate as well coun alone I think it’s important we actually make sure tenants and owners on these mixed ten blocks especially are safe and everyone else is safe who has a rack in their buildings and I said that’s I think the team have done a job there but I’ll see if Mr well wants to come back with any further comments thanks K thanks for the comments coun Malon due to the nature of R there’s understandably an issue where residents would be contacted will be uh understandably concerned the report notes that there an ongoing inspection regime and it will be dependent on each specific property and the the work that colleagues with in City Engineers do as to what remedies have required the report indicates at 3.1b the further tender reports will be coming forward uh when more costs are known and that will be presented to Future committees and I’m happy to provide that Assurance to council M that residents impacted will be advised in due course thanks could Charlie I see you want to come back you come back no it was just I was trying to be as positive about this as a possible can’t Mark understand the need for very Speedy corresponds given the fact this is not something weeky controlling house the information was out there in the general public it’s a Scotland wide UK wide issue um I just felt that the nature of the correspondence can perhaps have led to increased anxiety I appreciate Tony’s comment that further information will be made available to people of a more specific nature I think that’ll go a long way but I think that there’s a maybe a need just to um notify the the the general public that there are there will be ongoing correspondence between those affected by the rock um of a more detailed and specific nature so welcome Tony’s intervention I welcome the the comments you’ve made conven in terms of the need for experience um but sometimes we get the information out which we require to get out only to find out that people have got concerns because they get B effectively I mean I looked at I had four different circumstances present themselves to me on Friday and each individual had the same letter and um that was adding to the anxiety so I’m grateful at Tony for his comeback and um look forward to seeing future correspondents of a more detailed and direct nature okay thank you again as a positive there’s going to be continual inspections which is very reassuring I’m sure you’ll agree as well uh for the the tenis on occupiers who in the mix tenure and the Cottages we have going forward thank you B Kenan please yeah just um obviously in relation to inspection regime it’s obviously a a £70,000 inspection regime across all the all the the the blocks that there is there uh including owner occupiers but if it’s an owner occupier that’s in Falls within the six Monon category then they can look for the cost no doubt of two inspections a year until such times as obviously there is uh remedial work done so obviously as soon as that’s known and what the inspection regime and the cost of that is I think it’s important that we let people know what they can expect in bills going forward I think it would also be useful if uh officers would agree to make theel available to meet with tenants as this starts to roll out and uh you know set their minds at rest about the the sort of no as they are so as that uh you know we can uh keep individuals informed the best we can especially as if they’re likely to receive inspection Bills going forward for a few year uh I think it’s only fair that uh we try to keep people involved and try to keep them involved about the type of inspection whether it’s an intrusive inspection of holes need to be drilled or hatches need to be cut so as these things can be seen so that that would be useful going forward if officers were prepared to meet up with people I’m sure that would be probably acceptable make sure we are we’ve got to keep them fully informed there’s no doubt about that every circumstance especially with the any issues they might find as well on any additional cost I’m sure that would happen but I’ll just FM up with Tony just to make sure than thanks Billy yes yes of course as soon as we know more about this will be ongoing Communications RI residen and we’ll make staff available with staff Mee with a family ear on today but we’ll continue with that going forward okay see n’s happy that cheers for that okay I see no further questions or comments we’ll take the report as read thank you uh next onean please thanks convenor item five sourcing strategy by head of design and property and this is for approval yeah just in front of us quite clear what the report says so I’ll just move straight to questions um Council Clayton please thank you convenor um having raised um the very issue of Wi-Fi in sheltered housing complexes at committee a few weeks ago and I’m pleased to see the procurement um of this contain in the report um from the list in the appendix 2 it appears that all sh shelter lounges are included and but I just want to confirm if this is the case um also kind of what is the time frame for installation um on all the complexes just because I’ve had a few residents ask me about this yeah thank you uh probably go to a in this case a yeah to confirm all sheltered housing developments are included in this program we do not have the time scales as yet um obviously that’s something we consider once the outcome of the the tender is known and we will get back to elected members and residents to know them time scale when it’s in place okay thank you is that okay Michael y excellent thank you right thanks very much for that I see no further questions or comments so we’ll take that one is agreed thank you Al link item six tenders received by head of property and design and this is for approval again number attenders in front of us for heat and kitchens bathrooms window replacements reof Replacements disable adaptations flat roofing issues and just looking for approval I see B mcferson please H thanks conv I have a question regarding window replacements and I’m pleased to see that there is a project in there that will benefit around 40 houses Council K and I had a meeting with a group of tenants in part of our Ward today and we’re grateful for for the officer input uh excellent officer input into that meeting we actually got onto the subject of window replacement because those of us that are longer in the tooth in fact it goes back prior to the time I was on the council there was a very significant wind window replacement uh program in the early 1990s uh right across the city um now these windows are now reaching the end of their 30-year life frankly and we’re now in a situation where um Windows uh in many of our um um areas across the city will be requiring replacement in the coming years I not for tonight but i’ be very grateful if um officers could circulate what the specific proposals in relation to um particular schemes across the city are for window replacement uh program during the lifetime of the current um housing Capital plan because I’m just very conscious of the fact that we’ve now have an awful lot of 30-year-old windows plus year old windows out there and I think it would just be useful to provide reassurance um to all elected members as to how um the department is tackling that uh thank you convenor yeah I think that would be no problem at all I think every one we updated as the required I think we’ll bring a and I think there’s a you mentioned the capital plan earlier a what we were just reviewing now as well yes conven so um mentioned the fact that we’re reviewing the capital program for 2425 due to the fact that we have shifted some of the programs around to um facilitate the recovery program um as members will also see from a following item um when we did our consultation for the rent rise last year the issue of Windows was a priority for tenants it’s something I’m taking aboard for 2425 but we’ll also need to be looked at in terms of future programs as well to determine what the appropriate replacement cycle is so that something it’s certainly on their agenda okay thank you and it’s good to know it’s on the agenda again is that okay Billy mcferson yeah perfectly happy with that I know that all G colleagues will will indeed keep us updated so grateful for the response thank you absolutely thank you alen thanks can know that concludes the agenda thank you everyone and uh next committee that thank you convenor the final committee this evening is the city governance committee evening folks Willie we’ll just kick on with the agenda if thank you very much firstly are there any Declarations of Interest any declarations anyone wishes to share at this point I don’t think there is so we’ll take that as a no thank you very much very much there have been no declarations that then takes you on to item two Royal Bank of Scotland kingsby circus Branch this item’s been placed on the agenda by councelor Coleman councelor Coleman the floor is yours thank you Mr G I’m pleased to bring this motion to committee this evening especially after such strong support from the public for the campaign to prevent the closure of the branch I hope that we able to proceed in unanimous uh as a unanimous chamber in respect of this motion uh bluntly is you know there has been no prior warning um and no consultation with local residents and yet again RBS are acting unilaterally and what is Comm only described as a secretive manner anyone would think the bank doesn’t actually want customers and frankly doesn’t seem to care about the needs of their customers uh they talk about customer needs but clearly they have no interest at all in the social responsibility of catering for those who do not use online banking not everybody wants to not everybody can and indeed not everybody can afford to an internet connection is quite expensive and perhaps it’s not affordable for every household for me is laughable that in their email they talk about wanting a sustainable Branch Network and then in the same email say drive to your nearest bank 10 minutes away I mean b is belief to talk about being sustainable and encouraging drive driving cars in the same breath frankly you know it’s a lack of understanding for dunde it won’t be 10 minutes by the time you to walk Park and walk to the place in the city center local Proprietors have expressed dismay at the decision um Stephen Tosh who operates Hospitality businesses in the area uh said it may result in taking less cash as a form of payment for his businesses and that would have a serious impact on customers the nwest group made an operating profit of 6 billion in 2023 three so for me it’s simply a nonsense to suggest that the running of this Branch needs to see for operational needs I would appeal to their sense of of social responsibility to continue providing services for everyone especially when we Bor bear in mind and it really should be bor in Mind by our RBS in particular who it was who bailed the mountain 2008 2009 to the tune of a whopping 45 a half billion and that was a taxpayer and they have a duty to serve them properly um and sry ba them at first and we second me thanks very much uh councelor Coleman well I I’ll come to Bailey mcf in a second but just to say I’m happy to Second you Daniel I think what you’ve said very eloquently there is all the key points and I think I’m very minded both as a local counselor uh as a a customer of RBS actually that’s not necessarily my Branch but it’s not the point I expect a degree of service that I think we’ve all become very much accustomed to and changes in terms of what we’ve seen over a number of years not just by RBS but a number of uh National Banks who as you rightly point out uh have benefited from taxpayer interventions to support their Endeavors to continue uh to deliver their services and without that type of intervention uh they would have went bankrupt long ago and they shouldn’t forget that uh whatsoever I’m also very mindful of the point that you make in terms of the number of local businesses and I was always uh very mind mindful of the fact that when I did attend that Branch to deposit or take out money there was always a significant number of uh small imum Enterprises that were using that particular Branch uh to drop off money or to uh have change Etc uh obtain change for their businesses and now that has uh well through these changes that option will not be available and then I suppose one final point is also thinking about the nature of customers that will be using these Serv I was caught short at the RBS uh branch in the city center by 5 minutes because it closes at half hour and thinking about the number of people that are in employment who might not be able to uh go to the banks before this um the options now are very limited by the time you Traverse and access at the Central Bank office for example for RBS by the time you parked up and walked to the branch it’s probably already closed H and the reality is that no matter how much you can do online there needs to be that balance struck so I’m more than happy to seconding your motion I think and I’m sensing there’ll be a broad uh support for this just as there was with previous uh motions that have been brought forward for other bank enclosure uh and really this continued erosion of those Services banking services that people really do rely on uh has to stop and it has to stop now so with that I will bring in uh other members B mcferson will come to you next H thanks conven I’m not remotely precious as to who seconds councelor Coleman because I think the important thing in this is that uh we have un a unanimity within the council in opposing yet another uh Branch closure when I was first elected to the council in my own area there was a royal bank branch at nine Wells Hospital one in Perth Road and and many of the constituents in the northern part of my ward uses the one in Loi all gone all gone not only that single branch that existed in Perth Road uh over and above the Royal Bank of Scotland all gone uh Royal Bank of Scotland has systematically frankly gone around the city closing all its branches um in the fairly recent past STS well most recently broughty fery now kingsby circus to a point that its only face-to-face um uh Branch if you like will be its dundy Chief office it’s should really name it rename it dundy only office because that’s all it will be left with and the point really and you’ve made it as as councelor Coleman and it’s about um um having services for customers particularly for those that do not want um to use electronic means uh telephone banking or Internet banking H but also for local businesses councelor Coleman alluded to one local business that will be affected and let’s face it I mean I’ve been in the Kings with circus Branch quite a lot over the years it’s always busy and quite frankly it serves a very large number of customers in the area north of the Kingsway in the west side of of dunde and I think its loss will be keenly felt um I think it’s really important to send the message to the banks and in this case obviously the not West group that it’s not acceptable to continue this retrenchment away from uh customer service and therefore I hope that we will have uh cross party and all counselor support tonight in the the the campaign to keep the Kingsly circus branch of Royal Bank of Scotland open thank you convenor thanks very much for those remarks uh Bailey Kenan next I suppose a lot of things have been said I’m I’m happy to uh endorse the motion as well and uh and lend uh what I can towards the campaign that Daniel’s running um you know less than a mile to each side of that there’s been four branches shot or different different banks you know Beggars belief that we build them out and uh the the bit that we seem be forgetting is the the the customer service bit for those who paid for them uh you know so I think it’s polling that they just continue to cut Banks and do the uh the service and is a busy Bank uh regularly use uh obviously any time I pass that bit of the Kings Way there’s there’s individuals getting out their car and going into the there probably because other banks have closed and it’s made that one um brought more trade to that one in particular but happy to support the motion thanks very much uh for those comments uh Bailey Scott next thanks I’m I’m happy to support the motion as well because we do need to protect access to Bank branches for those who need them uh and over the years I’ve been on the council there have been dozens of items put on the agenda opposing um bank branch closures or post office closures and I put two or three of those onto an agenda myself but the outcome of all of these unfortunately has been closures uh I don’t think we’ve ever been able to save any of them no no no matter how big a campaign we ran so I think our officers really need to start looking at Alternatives should um further closures occur because I know some communities have um Comm Community Bankers who go in to serve a local area whether or no Bank branches to give advice on financial matters and some communities also have um uh uh uh banking hubs where different banks go in on a rotational basis to do Financial transactions in a local area for those who still need to do cash transactions and be helped with financial transactions so while I’m all supportive of trying to keep branches open I think as a council we need to start looking at how we provide or facilitate alternatives for those people who do need to still have a branch of some sort thanks very much for that Bailey Scott I would just add to what you’ve said there I think one of the challenges and perhaps something else that we need to pick up is the criteria around banking hubs I remember having a conversation with my colleague councelor Anderson in respect of a bank closure in her community in which we were exploring whether a banking Hub might be a feasible option but the strict criteria that’s UK wide in terms of uh a banking Hub openly being permissible or or or simply endorsed where um it’s I think Beyond a 2 m radius from uh another banking Venture means that that’s quite challenging in a geography like dunde but it notwithstanding your point it’s still something that we should push on and perhaps we also need to look at a bit of a campaign around the criteria for that to make sure uh that where it’s appropriate and where it’s useful from a community perspective that we can explore that in more detail uh I’ll come to counselor shares next thanks canina um just to comment to wish Council of Coleman the best of luck um I had my own fight with them when they closed uh the bank within the ferry and it’s good you’ve got a full head of hair because you will be pulling your hair out dealing with them um also something that I think we should be considering as well is these Banks don’t care they do not care about communities they act without any kind of impunity the only thing that they care about is um their profit at the end of the day um so at what point do we actually reconsider our relationship with the Royal Bank of Scotland given this is yet another Community they have pulled a bank from with no no uh consequence whatsoever so at what point do we as a council consider our own relationship and hit them where it really hurts which is how much money’s in their coffers thanks C she I think that’s certainly something that we’ve picked up before I think the challenge is at this point in time experience tells us that unfortunately um the number of closures I can’t I’m struggling to think of a single bank that hasn’t closed uh a one of their sites in dunde over the last few years and I think that’s where the challenge comes because they all need to recognize the incredibly important value that those um venues have to the broader Community but Point well made I’ll come to Kim Malone next thank you conv um I’m always minded to support the comments of aori former prime minister Ted Heath when he said what we were seeing is the unacceptable face of capitalism but I might not go that far not at this meeting but maybe a different meeting um but what we are seeing is the unacceptable face of business that sets itself against sustainability to I I I look at Loi in the Loy W not just in Loy geographic area and got nothing as Bailey mcferson said we’ve got nothing we’ve got no banking facilities and to say to people who are in firm who lack the means of Transport that they have to find their way into the city center to actually see face to face someone to help them with an inquiry I think it’s just insulting beyond belief these Banks care about shareholders and shareholder value primarily first and foremost they do not care about the sustainability of our communities and we talk about the 20 minute community and we we talk about the need for reducing the Transmissions associated with unnecessary travel keeping a bank presence in these areas we eliminate all that it’s unacceptable it’s causing it’s setting us back as a a a local Authority and what we’re trying to do to create more sustainable and more green environment and I think they need to be called out and I think I’m H I’m delighted actually to see the level of um unanimity here it’s um of a a kind of nature that I’m not used to seeing uh within the city council but I look forward to everybody’s support for Daniel’s motion and I’m sure you’ll get it but like councelor here I I I I kind of hold back my optimism to a certain extent but that’s no reason for us not to communicate in the strongest possible terms that the people of dunde find it unacceptable that Financial Services institutions could act in this way it’s wholly inappropriate and it goes against any principle of sustainability you might find in rbs’s sustainability report and I’ve read it you should read it it’s a fantasy when it comes to things like we issues that we’re addressing this evening thank you very much councelor Malone and I think the final contribution on this item is councelor Cordell and then I’ll come back to yourself Dan thank you chair um and obviously I’m very supportive of councelor Coleman’s motion um but it does seem that we’re always being reactive to these events and it’s really falling on a bit from councelor Malone’s um comments as well and I wonder whether we shouldn’t be considering as a council writing to those Banks and building societies who still have a presence on our High Street to reiterate reiterate our position that we don’t support closures um and we don’t support closures because they’re vital to our shopping districts and to our communities um you may have seen that Lloyd’s TSB have just announced another Tran of closures fortunately they’re not in Dundee in the next couple of years but you know the way the window is blowing we’ve seen what’s been happening so I would just like to see us as a council maybe be on the front foot a bit more and I don’t know if that is something that you could consider chair or if councelor colan could accommodate somehow here but it’s just a comment and if it’s not applicable to councelor Coleman’s motion I wonder if we could consider it as a separate thing for us to do as a committee thank you thanks for the suggestion councelor Cardell I’ll perhaps go to uh the moover of the motion to see what his view is so Daniel I’ll come back to you your thoughts on that and anything you thank you mran I’m very grateful for everybody’s support I mean very strong words of support I think it will really send a strong message to the the those in charge of RBS um I think in terms of um Deputy Prof cell’s comments I take on board them I think it it be hesitant to dilute the the importance of this motion but I certainly would support anything that would come forward or an action along those lines um that would come forward separately I think that would give it more meaning if it come forward separately and that’s what I would stand on that one yeah thanks very much I’m happy to pick that up and and take that forward in that vein as well and then I think it covers all the particular aspects that have been raised so thank you all I I see no other uh members wishing to come in and contribute to this so I think um we have reached absolute consensus so I’ll just check if there is anyone disagreeing no on that basis um that’s unanimous agreement thank you all very much Willie hey thank you takes you on to item three improving Services through listening to customers and service users you ask agree the recommendations yeah this report obviously highlights a number of areas where improvements have been made on the back of feedback uh and again it’s really important that we reflect some of those areas uh in terms of the improvements that have been made on the back of that feedback as well and appendex one just sets out some of those key areas and I think there’s there’s a number of not and I’m sure everybody will pick out the ones that are of most interest to them I suppose but thinking about some of the involvement that I’ve had with for example the fitness leadership panel the dundy Food Network in terms of some of the feedback they have provided and looking uh to change procurement and the way in which or the items we identify uh for use changes to Fu well support on the back of some of that feedback as well the introduction of the faith covering and obviously uh changes that help deliver hope point and again that’s an ongoing piece of work uh in terms of the importance of that but also reflecting the needs of you users and adap in uh the the services that are being provided so I think on the whole that’s all really positive uh there’s always uh room for improvement of course and it’s an ongoing process of learning listening and adapting as the case may be as well so I’ll come to uh comments B mcferson thanks conven I have to say I’m very impressed with a lot of the information in this uh showing a real willingness to listen to areas of potential Improvement uh about the quality of our services and frankly the quality of the staff of dundy city council and teams that help to deliver uh these so uh uh you know very positive feeling reading through that report I think there are a couple of areas uh and it’s not specifically regarding this report but if we are looking at improving Services through listening to our customers and service users whilst I accept what I’m now going to say is anecdotal it is repeated by a great many con constituents and I’m sure not only by my constituents but I’m sure other councilors will hear this as well and that is uh the number of constituents who from time to time say they had great difficulty getting through to particular um team members or or staff on the phone and I I’m fairly confident that that is largely not through phoning customer services and the main number uh I’ve had stats from the head of customer services and it which I think bear that out that um but nonetheless I think that’s an area where renewed Focus I think would be helpful and I think also I had an exchange quite a number of months ago with the chief executive about the need for dropping appointments and actually there was a positive reaction to that with uh um two half days a week at the box office in the city square but I do feel that we have to be mindful it’s it’s slightly touching on the previous item actually we have to be mindful about the uh customers who do not want to go digital and do want to speak to a real life human being face to face and I think uh you know continuing focus in that area would be um very much appreciated that said I’m not trying to make negative comments here at all I think the um this report does show uh the real willingness to listen uh the real willingness to ensure that we have a quality a good quality of service and I thank the staff and all the teams concerned for uh delivering that quality of service uh thank you convenor thanks very much not all very valid comments fa things that I think elected members generally are probably raised I think it’s important to say that that is again another issue that that’s where ongoing feedback is really important to make sure that we’re adapting those services and I myself was in contact uh very recently in terms of uh looking at some of those issues and understanding the approach that’s been taken I think the other thing I would probably reference is I’ve seen it at a local level this drive to Pro towards actually delivering more of those services in the community so actually rather than the confront dis being in the uh the city center for example a lot more Outreach Works some of which for example Morgan Academy is a great example of that but beyond that within our community centers Etc so I think it’s recognizing that there’s different approaches there but ultimately the goal is the best possible service that we can provide and and trying to continue to enhance that and I know that officers uh are are aware of uh both the concerns and the opportunities in that that space to make sure that we’re driving improvements and listening to those uh responses so thanks very much Fraser for your comments uh I’ll come to councelor MCU next thank you cenor um like Bailey mcferson I welcome many of the initiatives included in this report it’s really reassuring to read um that the council’s making strides to engage and respond to Citizens there’s a lot of good work here um and all those involved should be congratulated um our people really are our best asset um I’m concerned though that while the report is specifically around improvements that have been made to council Services as a result of listening to the views of customers and services users over the last year some of these improvements relate to listening that was done prior to then or it’s not clear when or how the listening exercise took place um I can let officers have specific examples of items out with the time scale out with the meeting but I wonder I wonder also how some of these improvements listed in the appendix fit into the responding to Citizens feedback category 1.3 in the appendex under performance uh describes a report on confor on performance not evidence of listening and responding over the past year 1.9 in integrated impact assessments I’d be really interested to hear how customers and service users were able to influence improvements to an internal management tool 2.6 teacher Booker Supply booking system again I can’t see how service users or customers had any input into this internal process infant pledge actually refers to Future feedback from parents once the tool is further devel Ved 4.5 it talks about work to improve online access for customers but no information on how customers fed into the discussion I’m passionate about engaging with our citizens um so what I’m really trying to say here is that the report is quite specific um examples to evidence how the council is listening and responding should relate specifically to that purpose and should fall within the time frame thanks very much for the question Dorothy um there might be some more detail officers wish to come back without with the meeting just because of the nature of some of the specific elements that you asked there but I’ll come to uh the head of chief executive service Andrea perhaps for an initial response Andrea yeah so obviously the examples are gathered across services so what we will do is just make sure that we make it clear um what exactly the input was from customers and we’ll double check some of the time frames um just in case we’re running over um Financial years so I’m happy to take on board any improvements around that in relation to individual ones I’m happy to discuss those with with councelor mugh and give her any um additional information on those thanks Andre you happy with that yes I am thank you very much and and nothing else that that um question and response there just demonstrates that um you know there’s a there’s a point being raised and there’s the council officer listening and adopting the report accordingly for next year I’m sure so thanks very much for all your comments uh can I take this item as agreed thank you very much Willie okay thank you convener the remaining items considered confidential in the committee we wish to deal with this in the usual way M happy to deal with this in the usual way brand thank you very much I’ll take that as a greed and that is the business thank you all very much have a great week take care thank you thank you good night you good night e e e e e