Gemma Krasucka, Leicester City FC & Richard Bridgewater, British Cycling sit down with our very own Roma Varma for the customer panel chat at The Happiness Index’s Employee Engagement Champions Conference 2024!nt Champions Conference 2024!
[Music] [Applause] hi um where are Richard and oh there did you want to come join me on stage oh you coming up that way okay your brain for the it doesn’t matter it I’m not sure I’m going to need this I [Music] thank you everybody for joining us it’s so amazing to see all these faces in the audience so I’m nervous but very excited this is the first time I’m doing this I’m sure Richard and J are more experienced than I am so bear with me if I mess up at any point um so this session is all about Clarity and enablement um so when you saw the triangle on the screen that is those are two of our eight Neuroscience areas so for those of you in the room that are customers you know all about our Neuroscience areas and so I’m going to be asking um Gemma and Richard just about their experience with both of those uh just realized I didn’t introduce myself so my name is Roma I was the one of the first employees at the happiness index I’ve been here for eight years so a very long time um especially for my generation apparently we move around every 2 years but that’s Testament to how amazing the happiness index is um and I’m seeing a customer success manager so um I’ve got some clients in here that I work with and um yeah I will hand over to Jen and Richard and let them introduce themselves hi everybody um my voice nominee isn’t this low or this croaky but when your team win 5 nil uh on Tuesday T there aren many and one win away from promotion there aren’t many people that do have a voice in leester at the moment uh so thank you so much for um asking for us to be part of the panel it’s a pleasure to be here U my name is Gemma um SP my pronounce my I’m Kuka and I’m the head of Learning and Development at leer City Football Club uh and it’s a completely brilliant role to be able to influence people’s lives every day and help them become a little bit better at what they do that’s it hi everyone um I’m Richard I’m the HL business partner at British cycling um I’m saving my voice for about 95 days time when the Olympic starts um yeah which is which is coming fast um it’s my first role in sport um it’s been fascinating um we’ll probably get on to it a little bit you know I like lots of people here um I knew British cycling from the great brick cying team and what you see on the television and then come in and find an organization that has such a vast reach and does so much sort of Grassroots participation you know we’re we’re the fa and Man City combined is the best way I can describe it in terms of on field and off field so lots to do very busy and can I say this is about as close to Quenton Tarantino as I’m ever going to get and I’m very excited about this actually you Roma thank you so much um I feel like it’s going to be really hard to follow up anything say cuz he’s so funny on Jammer as well um so first of all it wouldn’t be a thi event if I didn’t ask what makes you happy okay um so there there’s a couple of things like Matt touched on it Karen touched on it as well so if we talk about work um you know we all spend an inordinate amount of time in our jobs um you know me and everybody that I work with and all my colleagues so you know why do I do my job and and what brings me happiness at work is around trying to create an environment where people come in every day they want to be there they they feel part of um and and that they have a voice um and and that is not always successfully but certainly what gives me pleasure in work outside of work mountains um generally the top off I do I do a lot of mountain running and I think for me if I ever want to be reminded that I’m not quite as important as I think I am the top of a mountain looking at what nature is done over 4 and a half billion years is is a pretty cool place just to be reminded of that um so yeah that’s what makes me happy and sheep which you find on mountains I love sheep they’re they’re my spirit animal I just think they’re brilliant um I mean what do you say after that uh I think aside from all the the normal things which I think we probably all share um maybe not sheap but you know like family and friends they they create a lot of balance in my life uh and keep me grounded which I think is really important um meaning in work is probably one of the things that the majority of people are looking for more and more now than ever and purpose you know why am I doing what I’m doing how do it dial up into something bigger than me um that is something that genuinely makes me happy when I’m a personal trainer in my spare time and spend a lot of time coaching people to move past barriers that they probably don’t realize that they have so when somebody comes up and tells you completely unscripted you’ve made a difference to my life and it’s you have enabled me to to feel better about what I do there is no better feeling than that you can’t put a price on having somebody come up and tell you it’s because of you that I’m now able to do this and I never thought I could so genuinely that that makes me happy that’s amazing amazing I love that and I know I’m not supposed to be talking that much and just asking questions but that’s actually why I joined the happiness index because it’s all about enabling people within their roles making them happy making them engaged just changing their lives at work you spend so much time at work why would you not want to be happy and you know having that impact at the T at thi is just incredible um I will move on to my questions now so my first question is what in your experience is the for a high performing team okay um I think three things and then there’s like little bullet points underneath each one um the first one is understanding so understanding of a vision understanding of a a mission something that is a shared Vision that everybody can buy into understanding of each other so who else is in your team if you’re in a team it’s not an individual sport so you are having to rely on other people um at times where maybe you probably might not want to or you need to um so understanding vision mission and of each other awareness uh number two this is this is for me personally awareness of self it’s really hard and I was saying this earlier it’s really hard to apply things to other people when you’re not applying them yourself so so application to self first before application to others particularly in a team is really important um because otherwise you just get found out and you just you end up looking at somebody in your team and thinking why are you telling us to do all of this why are you asking us to work harder smarter leaner when you’re not willing to do it yourself um awareness of strength and opportunities so awareness of what you bring to the table and feeling really comfortable in that and I think particularly for for women in sport it can be really difficult because primarily sometimes you might be the only one in the room um what you bring to the table and then what you don’t and actively try and find people that have skills where you don’t um so understanding awareness and then willingness uh if there is a of willingness to contribute you’ll never have a high performing team if there’s one person that isn’t willing to to pull their weight or isn’t willing to hold you accountable when you’re not pulling your weight because we won’t be 100% every single day so I think three things and then there’s a multitude of things under there understanding awareness and willingness for me what JMA said um um no to EO a lot of that I think you know from from where we are are a sort of crystal clear purpose Crystal Clear objectives is is really really important um you know our our teams particularly around the sport you know they’re locked in on what it is that they need to do but I think underneath that which is maybe a dichotomy is that you know the ability to then pivot as well things things can change very very quickly and and what you think you might need to do might suddenly kind of just not um so so being able to react very quickly to really understand yourself the work that you do and what you need to change is really important I think support from the board organization every team needs that the actual tools to be able to do the job you you could have an assemble a very high performing team but if you’re not giving them the right tools if you’re not actually supporting what it is they’re trying to deliver that they’re operating in a vacuum and and you know people will will walk away from that they will um and then on a human level you know people who trust each other who respect each other if you said J you know that that’s so so important you know if you’re you’re relyant on each other to do a job and to do a job well and and as you talked about you know not everybody’s going to have a good day all of the time um and so to be able to support each other to cover each other strengths and weaknesses is is massively massively important amazing we CH our panelists well because they’re echoing everything that an Neuroscience model stands for so that is amazing thank you my next question question is Clarity sounds simple but I’m sure we all have experien of where it’s gone well and not so well why is Clarity so important for employee engagement in your opinion okay um it’s the why um you know we all we all need a little bit of a why um otherwise you know we we’d go into work and we kind of drift aimlessly um there’s got to be a purpose and I think think Clarity brings that you know it’s if we have a why from from a colleague perspective I we at British cing want people to be really involved in what we’re doing we want to feel that what they do is contributing to their own success and to the organization’s success so having a really clear message that everybody buys into and feels part of is massively massively important it comes back to why do we come to work I want to go to work because I feel that I can make a change and that I’ve got a purpose and that the organization I work for Believes In Me and listens to me and and that’s probably the other side of it you know that that communication and that Clarity works both ways um you know it’s not just our CEO and our executive leadership team and our managers talking down it’s got to be creating environments for our colleagues to talk up and you know we do a lot of work through engagement surveys through listening groups you know we want through strategy development we want everybody involved we want everybody to have a say and and that doesn’t mean that our exec team don’t sometimes have to make decisions difficult good or bad they are empowered to do that but where we can we will do as much collectively as we possibly can and use that Collective voice and again you will find that people will stick with you a lot longer if they feel they’re participating and not just being done to I think Clarity done well will will bring that yeah I love that I think Clarity for me if it every single day if we just thought about all of the questions that we get asked like think about all the amount of questions that you have in your mind all all all day every single day in your work what questions have you got it’s typically why why are we doing that what’s that for what’s the purpose we’re constantly being asked those questions and even in situations where we walk into a room imagine we’re walking into this room it’s like don’t go through this door immediately you’re going to want to go through the door why what’s behind it where will it lead us and because we’re curious our minds are just constantly seeking information insecurity and and and curiosity is brilliant so to be as open and honest as possible is so important because not only will it soothe that Curiosity you’ll be able to get so much better out of the the person that you’re with or the group of people that you’re with because they’ll know what’s going on and they’ll think right okay I know the parameters now I’m going to I’m going to either try and bust through them because we can do better so you think great I’ve got a motivated individual got somebody that’s got passion we’re going to go somewhere uh but also you’ve got people that aren’t constantly questioning or trying to look past what you’re saying because everything you just laid everything out on the table so Clarity is is so critical but it starts with the shared Vision because not the amount of people that come into an organization that definitely come into the football Club okay so where are we going what’s our mission like what’s what’s the vision what what are our values and you think God you you really care like you really want to dial into something so just being open and honest and saying well just have a read ask me any questions is so empowering to you but also them as well amazing thank you that your both so right having that vision is so incredibly important and I see that when I look at the data that we get through happiness index and people having that Vision knowing what they’re working towards not just as a common goal for the company but also on an individual level sometimes we have people not being clear on their job requirements and that is also so important because if you don’t know what you’re doing on a day-to-day basis and what you’re working towards what your objectives are within your role how can you help to um achieve those common objectives that are company wide so I completely agree with um everything that you have both said um my next question is do you have any Communications celebrations or mishaps to share Richard has a banger shall I go first um I’ll do both um so a positive a celebration so we are you know we’re on our third CEO in in 18 months it’s been a period of relative instability um which you know can make people quite nervous um and actually our new CEO John D I tell you I think he’s been nearly a year now actually time FES um but something that he’s really harnessed is is around communication and and putting himself you know making himself available and actually really building trust in him and what we’re trying to do really quickly so we’ve always had a kind of all staff Call he’s really kind of harnessed that and and we’re prepared to kind of share information with people that perhaps we wouldn’t have done before which I think is great because it is about trust you know we the the the the men and the women’s tour for instance which anyone that pays attention to cycling is we we’ve taken over which is great um but as an organization we knew about that a couple of weeks before that was going to the press and that was embargo information but he’s been prepared to say look I I want to tell you where we’re going I trust you to keep that information confidential and and people have and people have really born into that um that’s that’s a positive um the clanger so I think I really should preface this by saying we have an extraordinarily good comms team who are very small and and do a huge amount of work um but words are very important so it was around the the queen funeral um and obviously we’re a national governing body we funded um so government expect us to put out statements and so on and it was around what events should and shouldn’t be happening around the Queen’s funeral and the press release that we put out out um should have been and what it was meant to say or or what we we intended to say was that cycling events racing those kind of activities on the day of the queen funeral shouldn’t happen you know lots of sporting events paused and that’s what we were trying to say it may it may have been construed that what we actually said was you’re not allowed to cycle a bike Full Stop on on the day of the queen funeral which which as you would imagine members and various people in the who who picked that up um didn’t go down particularly well um we we changed the messaging quite quickly when it was pointed out to us that that’s might what what might be what we were suggesting so yeah it happens and and it was words it was it was not the intention but but sometimes these things happen and all you can do is go sorry we made a mess of that and we correct it we own it and we correct it you go I mean I think that’s just brilliant uh I mean there’s been so many different like celebrations and cl I mean not necessarily um there is so if any of you are working in sport uh then you’ll know the rigor that goes on in in comms um and the amount of process that that happens um and I think why sometimes that can be so successful um is because of the diverse views of people that get to see see it before anything goes out and having as many different people around the table looking at what it is that you are about to say or do before it goes anywhere is really important um there was in my previous organization uh I was the head of inclusion and we were putting something out for international women’s day and we just didn’t have that diverse lens through it and some of the the stuff that it look it was only internal just really wasn’t great um because the diversity wasn’t around the table so you you get group think so you would only get you know the people that think the same going yeah that’s great and it’s like well tell me what we’re missing and that question wasn’t asked uh so I think in some of the clanners can be the biggest learnings as well completely agree thank you both um so my next question is what ass some of the key enablement tools used in your organization one first we are what I will say is we are particularly great at development um at people development there is a huge amount of resource that goes into specialist roles but also people that want to get into specialist roles as well um it it’s actually really inspiring I’ve never and I am part of the military as well the the the British army outside of the army this is probably been the first environment that I’ve seen the level of investment in people to the degree that it is that it is at um it’s incredible the amount of time that is spent asking the questions of what is it where are you going where do you want to be um how can we support you and the amount of training agreement that we’ve got with with our team is is is incredible um so for personal development it’s incredible for professional development it’s also incredible so I think we do that particularly well cool thank you um yeah I’m I’m I think I’m going to say you know being honest again um we we’re this is the nut we’re trying to crack around kind of an enablement at the moment it’s it’s an area we score quite lowly low in and we knew we would so you know we we’re kind of quite granular there are there are a lot of inefficiencies at British cycling which chew up people’s time and and make their workload much harder than it should be you know about getting into sort of real detail people having to create spreadsheets to back up the tech that we have because the tech doesn’t talk to another piece of tech and you know and it just eats time it eats time and it increases workload so we’re kind of really looking at the moment uh uh the tools that we deploy and and and and the tools that we give our colleagues to be able to do their job so they can do them smoothly and quickly and and not have to find several work around you know a really simple one our our internet is a mess it’s meant to be the store where you get all of the information that you need any anything you need should be there but you you can spend an hour looking for something and then and then you give up um you do because who has who has the time so you know we we’ve been doing a lot of work on kind of efficiencies and I mean we identified about 260 individual processes where people were having to do something manual that they didn’t really need to do and so we really just started stripping those away and actually it sounds really small um but it isn’t and the impact it’s had on people and how they feel about it because all of a sudden You’ you’ve got a bit more time people feel a bit more free I know it’s really DED um but it works and people have really responded well to it so yeah our is there there’s a lot we need to unpack around kind of the tools and around enablement and and we are um you know we we know it’s a journey and it’s a journey we’ve really started in the last sort of six to n months there we go I don’t think that’s after at all um it’s surprising through the data that we get sometimes it will be the most basic of thing so for example I had a retail client and um the toilets were too far away because they were in Westfield I mean there’s not much that you can do about that you can’t move the toilets closer but it’s it’s surprising the data and the information that we get and it’s something so simple sometimes but you can change and it has the biggest impact on all of your employees so yeah it’s not DFT it’s even though there’s 260 of them I think you said um that’s a lot but those that will make such a big difference to how efficient people can be within their role um so my next question is do you have any advice on finding the balance between employee workload and resource budgets the Holy Grail right um you know I no I found a needle in a ha stack once you know it’s no it’s um it is it it I think it’s a real challenge um I I’ll speak for ourselves you know I you know we live in a world where we are trying to do more with a decreasing budgets um you know and that’s that’s just the reality and and it is hard I think uniquely to us at British cycling um and what we’re trying to do and and again not surprising it it was an area we scored low on we we in the past with so many different things to so many people that’s what I’m trying to say from from people who identify with the onfield success but we go all the way down to getting girls and boys on a bike in a park to our club network we’re a membership organization we’re a government funded organization we are we are pulled in lots of different directions and I think in the past we have tried to do far too much and and the byproduct of that is that that just increases everybody’s workload um until people’s heads explode um you know that that’s just what happens because you know it’s oh we need to do this and this and this and this you can’t there’s there’s a finite amount of energy and and emotional energy that people have so um our strategies work in Olympic Cycles um so we’re just working on what we’re calling project purpose which will be our strategy for um post Paris and then to la28 um and the what we are looking at within that is let’s nail who we actually are let’s nail what we can actually what we should do and what we should influence because they’re two very different things you know we we have weight you know a governmental level but it doesn’t mean we have to do everything uh we can’t you know we we need to be really strategic and clever about the battles that we pick and and the work we deploy and that may be looking at other organizations we can partner with Etc there’s lots we can do so there’s a there’s a huge amount of work on that which does involve everybody again we will our strategy kind of is built from the bottom up where we can which will hopefully then bring that kind of clarity and a bit more enablement and we’ll be a bit more specific about what we can do and and the other thing if if my boss and I get our way we’d like to throw Ro profiles in the bin as well quite frankly um you know you’re handed this bit of paper it generally becomes meaningless after about a week of doing your job why why do we need a list um you know if you can crack teamwork and and you’ve got a good vision and know who you are nobody needs 10 bullet points to tell them what they should be doing on a daily basis um that one might be toughen up to crack yeah I’ll be completely honest um there is no balance or there is no words of wisdom for me on what OD and resource budget at all um generally speaking there is that is something that we are genuinely working through at the moment um anybody that is in football knows that you work a million hours a day and you’re there way longer than probably what you should be or could be but you do it because you love it um and that doesn’t mean it’s right it’s just in the way that it has been uh we have we’re going on a huge Journey as a HR department to support the awareness um and the understanding so going back to the three things about the high performing team um at the start really the understanding the awareness of you know how how many hours is is okay and what’s not okay and when are you taking your holiday is when you’re taking your toil um and then having the willingness from the team team to actually do it because sometimes you could you can share all of that information and just go I just want to be here I just want to I I just need to kind of be with a team and it’s like no you don’t like it’s it will be okay but trying to help somebody do that is really difficult um so we we certainly have no words of wisdom there unfortunately if that’s what you came for that’s i’ not I’ve got nothing thank you both yeah yeah um my next question is how do you approach collaboration within your business uh yeah I mean just du as a na we we quite a small in intricate organization across three sites and they’re all in lerare um that by default I’ve come from a a national company that has 60 odd locations across the the country with UK holidays um that is automatically a lot easier because people cross path all the all the time um I think in co uh and I think that although you know that was it feels like forever ago um there is still this hangover in Silo working and I don’t know whether anybody else is still experiencing that or feeling it um but there is uh this and it what and I know that Anna will touch on this a little bit later on is it’s it’s it’s the mindset you know I will work on my task I will keep myself kind of in this bubble because it feels safe and there is still that there is still that so having um times where it’s almost forced collaboration or times where you’re manipulating situations so people are working together but not just working on tasks they’re working on who are we as a team and what do we bring to the table and who are we really as people um I can only speak for for me but it would be great to hear from any of you um I don’t think we spend enough time doing that spending enough time being curious about okay so who who are you really as an individual not just who are you and what job do you do like okay well you could do any job but who what motivates you to get out of bed in the morning and how can I help you as a person not just necessarily Your Role so collaboration has different lenses um but for us it’s about manipulating those times where it’s not just about task which when you’re in you know project meeting can can be really hard cool frk you Jim I really like that you know I I sometimes speak to colleagues you know I I really like my job um but my grave stone is not going to read here lies Richard Bridgewater he was okay at HR you know I’m I’m not I’m not I’m not my job you know and nobody is it’s just it’s it’s a label and that really trying to find out who are you and let’s let’s try to be human beings I think is really important and I agree we don’t necessarily do enough of it all of the time um in terms of where we go it’s it’s been again it’s a journey um collaboration of P felt like a word that British cycling I’ve only been there two and a half years but sort of post postco every collaboration seems to be this word that suddenly everyone was using and and and it was I think for a while so I think it was just a word we must collaborate but you know everyone just carried on working in what was quite a siloed way um you know we have four we had four different unique directorates from commercial to the sports team to participation to you know comm’s marketing and and they didn’t really well Al there was huge amounts of crossover it just wasn’t happening um so we’ve really kind of start started to try and break those structures down so that we have multifunctional teams that you know we become a bit more project focused which relies on your drawing on expertise and and people bringing together that way um we’ve got a huge kind of change program going on at the moment and that is about identifying that work those structures but then also communicating it you know we we we regularly brief everybody on where that program is what we’re working on um so it’s not just about those that are that are in the projects everyone’s well aware and and you know has an opportunity to participate um yeah there’s there’s there’s work to be done but yeah we breaking those silos and being a little bit clever and more strategic and giving people the opportunity to to come in and out of teams as needed is is ongoing but but seems to be starting to turn the ship that’s amazing um at thi we did decide that we were going to have a flat structure and so anybody and any team can get involved in projects and other teams and that made such a difference as we were growing um because obviously being the first employee I had I was just doing so many things just because I was interested and as we got bigger I kind I missed that and I wanted to be involved in other things and then having the opport opportunity to do that again I think really helped um because people do have different interests they might have different experience that they can bring to a project that’s happening within another team so I think that’s really important um my next question is what’s next in your employee engagement Journey okay well I couldn’t I couldn’t get off the stage without without this bit so we started using the happiness index in December time um so we launched our first culture survey in December um response rate of 98% haven’t forgotten about lunch um which which we were really obviously 98% was amazing um and that actually you know is really conf to show that everybody at British cycling really wants to have a say you know they they they enjoy and appreciate that they can put forward their views in what we hope is a a kind of trusted environment so you know that in end of itself was great but it also showed us there’s a huge amount of work to do um so a few things that we’ve done and are doing we made a commitment when we launched a survey that from survey launch to having an organizational action plan will be done within 90 days within with regular communication along the way and we’ve done that so there is there are some things that we need to work on culturally as an organization um but there’s also then we allow that to go down to kind of director and Team level because it’s Sports really interesting cycling we we have about four different cultures because we do so much so we have an overarching sort of values and behavior framework so that our conversations with each other whoever I’m talking to whatever Department whatever their goals are should feel the same it should be authentic and we should treat each other as we wish to be treated but understanding operationally we’ve got about four different businesses with four really different focuses and they have their own drives as well um so we’ve got kind of you overall culture plan departmental culture plan um from that came sort of the new values and behaviors so we’ve got a lot of work still to do embedding those we’re starting to look at making sure they come into all of our recruitment so become more values based around recruitment um they will form part of our kind of Performance Management and our development objectives as well so you know something brsh cycling has not been very good at back to Clarity is is that purpose that Clarity so you know we’re asking people to think about objectives that not just feed into where we’re trying to go as an organization now but actually into our values and behaviors so what values what behaviors will will I and others need to harness to be able to deliver and you know that that will really we hope sort of helping better those um and then also looking at kind of onboarding and offboarding as well you know as I said we’ve got we’ve got a really good really engage as you find in sport kind of core of colleagues who who want to succeed um but it’ be interesting to know we know along that Journey at the beginning at the end people’s emotions and feelings change and and trying to bring in more data and more data points to look at what that what that curve or otherwise might be I think will be really important to help us kind of deploy a few more initiatives there we go yeah I think it’s so similar the the the similarities between our two organizations we launched our vision and values last year uh which was led by our CEO which is who is an incredible woman um and our directors uh we spent a long long time doing workshops with the team kind of understanding what does this mean now to your role um we have incredible owners who are just at the heart of everything that we do and enable hell of a lot of empathy heart and humility through the entire organization um that is felt in every single one of our team members and no matter who you spoke to you would probably get something very very similar so we’re spending more time working through our values um we’ve got leadership behaviors which will be rolled through the leadership program which will start as we’re coming out a season end um fingers crossed either QPR do us a favor uh on Friday or you know when we head up to Preston we’ve got that we’ve got that win um but you know to to rebound uh you know hopefully the way that we will um we we know that we will need to create uh leaders that are even more resilient uh you know are ready to very quickly innovate and start to move the the club forward so we have a lot of work to do with our leaders um and it would be a pleasure to do that uh and then we’ll continue with our engagement survey we know we can get a lot better there are areas that we’re working on every single department is in their action planning uh phase right now so they’re having team meetings we’ve got our operations team that are doing that right now today uh with all of um their leaders so what we’re trying to create is this culture of more clarity constant communication um one of the things that we’re trying to instill is overc communicate by a factor of 10 even if you think that you have told somebody I’m telling you now they will tell you they haven’t heard you and and you could just talk to you BL in the face so keep telling them keep communicating um because you know we will embark on the cultural change that we’re after and and that is a full ined of the values and vision uh which is exciting I love hearing about what everyone’s doing to move forward so that’s all really exciting thank you both so much um I’m not sure how we don’t have time I’m going to open it up to questions five minutes are there any questions got one over here I can shout if you like I’m coming do you want sing um I’ve written can you hear me you just need to hold it super close really like karaoke Vibes um honestly you don’t know where you’re going with that um it’s Richard for you question um when you were talking about the 280 um improvements that you identified and it started a thought process in my head that one of the reasons that those kinds of things happen is because people were kind of stuck in a comfort zone of doing things that way and you know it’s not right but it’s okay sort of thing so um my question is how have you got people on board to have a real appetite to begin to embed the changes that you’re making or even more so get involved in highlighting where they see improvements and feel safe talking about it yeah sure um it was really so my journey into Bri cycling and actually it’s kind of works it’s maybe a little bit unique is um I started two and a half years ago the entire HL Department before me had left so my colleague Mariam was here had’ been there about three months um I arrived and and my boss the HL director um arrived about 3 months later um which created you know had to work fast to understand British cycling and and didn’t have that checkpoint but actually it allowed us to kind of draw a really clear line and say this is who we are um and right from the beginning kind of trying to build trust being available you know the old HR team had sat in a Cupboard we moved out onto the floor you know just so people knew who we were first of all and that we were as G kind of said we were human beings not just the the strange people that sat in a cupboard that you went to talk to if you know something bad had happened um because that’s the piece of my job I I enjoy the least um you know if I’m doing my job well there shouldn’t be a lot of that going on so there was people sort of being starting to trust and more likely to share um and and sort of setting up groups that that colleagues could feed into and use their voice was really really important in that um the the efficiencies was has been a slam dunk because people were so so frustrated as I said you know you’re you’re having to do extra work because the system that we’ve given you doesn’t do the job properly people have been chomping at the bit for for that change and it was just creating the time and space and and again we we have literally went this is the work that we’re doing if it bothers you come and talk to us doesn’t matter how big it is how small it is if we can fix it we we will and and people weren’t shy in coming forward to share that information and then it’s just been about okay what grouping it together does it all come under emails does it come under our internet does it come under bigger pieces of tech um you know and and one know simple one WhatsApp connectivity in the building um because we have coaches over there and their boss might be there and you know people all over the world and just even improving that um it’s made a big big difference so but it but it started with it’s okay to express your voice it’s okay to say I don’t like this um there isn’t a consequence to that we we want to hear it I hope that sort of answered the question sometimes I just say words and hope for the best do we have any other questions do any question um Richard um GMA thanks for bringing back the phrase It’s a banger as well you know I noticed when you said we talk about collaboration you said it was a word and everyone said let’s collaborate and then no one did and then we did something I noticed every loads of people in the room were like smiling and nodding like they’ve been through that yeah can you just touch on what you did to move from a word to actually people collaborating yeah sure um we it was all around how we looked at projects and and again it was breaking down those silos Matt and and it was recognizing that to do a piece of work requires lots of lots of different skills so actually we had to force it to begin with um you know we we we we created project groups so there’s a piece of work that needed to be deployed and an initi it was okay we need some skills from over there with that person we know would be really good so actually there was there was a degree of of sort of the management teams almost having to create that environment to kind of get people used to it and of course what that does is people work together that wouldn’t normally they hopefully have a good experience something that goes and gets delivered gets delivered and all the while they’re talking to their teams and the directorate that they worked in about what they’ve been doing and and it car and it starts to carry a bit of momentum now again we’re we’re a long way from having that completely nailed um but it was recognizing it was just a word um and then yeah sometimes you have to kind of engineer a little bit of change and and so we we we we made people collaborate um rather than them just talk about it until they started enjoying it and and and now they do and so they will um yeah it was it was quite artificial but sometimes you just got to nudge thank one hello um back again um so but a question probably to both of you so we’re we’re looking around the topic of clarity and enablement Richard you talked about um just stuck in my mind about um doing away with ro profiles and JMA you talked about getting to know the human um and understanding them on that level to enable them in their job so if if you’re coming away from V profiles what does that look like in reality what what else do we do we have when we think about Clarity suppose this this is right just to be clear this is very conceptual at the moment it’s not a we are it’s something that my boss and I often talk about so um what would that look like so I guess if I I apply it to to myself um you know I I work in h um that’s my job um I was talking to J and others before in in saying that I cannot remember a day where I’ve been going into work thinking today I need to do X and Y and it actually happen um because because you get to work and particularly in the kind of work we do you’re going to get that email or a phone call or be pulled into a meeting or whatever it might be so actually those bullet points are mean mean less it doesn’t it doesn’t mean that I don’t have goals and objectives it doesn’t mean that I work I don’t work within that that Big Field of HR that that’s what I do but I think as as people grow in a role and I think what you would find if someone’s very new and it’s their start of their career you perhaps it’s a bit like coaching you perhaps need to be a little bit more directive but but as you kind of start maturing Into Your Role I know what those bullet points are I don’t need them written down what what I perhaps need is a little bit more freedom to also then get involved in other parts of the business or to be able to go that’s an interesting project I think I could have some value there I think there’s a there’s a danger with role profiles that people can go that’s me that that’s my life that’s all I’m going to do and I think if we can break that down a little bit I’m I’m always going to work in HR and there are there are things that I need to do but I think if we can give people the opportunity to explore and and and move away from that um that would be good whether we will convince leaders that that will happen I I do not know I’ll maybe come back in a couple of years and let you know I think we’re about out of time it’s not picking up my voice doesn’t need to but thank you so so much please Round of Applause for our [Applause] a [Music]