PMQs | 8 May 2024

Watch Prime Minister’s Questions as Tory MP Natalie Elphicke defects to Labour.

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[Music] Automotive manufacturing hello good afternoon it’s just coming up at 12:00 in a moment we’ll take you live to the commons the prime minister’s questions the first time joined here in our Westminster Studio by our Deputy political editor Sam coats um Sam a tricky week for the Prime Minister after the local election results yeah look at the benches in front of you it’s actually quite a packed House of Commons this week I I I think some people will be coming Jane hoping blood Sports is the name of the game because of course over last weekend we got the results of the local uh elections and it was whatever way you cut it pretty much of drubbing for um and Sam just before we go to pmqs a bit of breaking news Tori MP Natalie Ali is defected to labor hitting out the broken promises of rushi Sak’s tired and chaotic government a punch in the stomach just before pmq that’s an extraordinary development Natalie ali uh who was the uh wife of Charlie Eli the former MP for Dava before her um who had to leave under circumstances uh has and has had I think she’s had a difficult relationship with the paron but a defection today after the weekend that the Prime Minister has is incredibly bad news uh no doubt the uh labor party will be making the most and we will quite possibly be seeing her cross the floor uh imminently uh I think this will send absolute shock waves through the Tory benches because the pain of a defection is one thing a pain of a defection to labor you remember the last one we had was Lee Anderson going to reform now we’ve got a Tory MP going in the other uh Direction uh it’s an absolutely just checking her Twitter feed nothing on her Twitter feed uh as yet about this statement uh the prime minister is on his feet uh last week’s prime minister’s questions I highlighted the shocking rise in the number of teenagers trying vaping and asked the Prime Minister if he would take decisive action to stop Vape advertising on football strips he declined to do that since then I have had an exchange with the Scottish chief medical officer Professor sir Gregor Smith during a session of the tobacco and Vapes Bill committee and he said where are become very uncomfortable and I am not supportive is where the massive attraction of sports companies is used in a way that promotes behaviors that are known to be unsafe or unhealthy can I ask the Prime Minister again does he still think that it is right that Vape companies should sponsor football kits Mr Speaker I’m glad the honorable lady agrees with me and the government that we should do more to tackle youth vaping and that’s why we are bringing forward measures in the new bill to restrict the availability and appeal of Vapes to Children specifically whether that’s flavors or or indeed marketing as she knows advertising of Vapes is already heavily restricted by UK regulations including a ban on advertising on television and radio and most online now we’ve seen football take positive voluntary action in the past on issues such as this but I will say to her that the government will respond to the honorable lady specific amendment in the usual way sh thank you Mr I deare that my daughter is a serving officer in the armed forces in recent weeks Mr Speaker my right honorable friend has announced plans to control welfare and get people back to work to increase defense spending to 2 and a half% of GDP and passed legislation to get flights off to Rwanda does he agree with me that these are all issues that real people like my constituents in southeast Coral care about and that the leader of the opposition should do the right thing and back them well Mr we my rable friend is a fantastic Champion for her local area and can I also thank her daughter for her service in the armed forces and she’s right I’m not surprised that the labor party don’t back our plans to stop the votes I’m not surprised they don’t back our plans to get people into work and reform welfare but I do think that they should do the right thing when it comes to the security of our nation and that’s back our plans to increase defense spending and give our brained Armed Forces Personnel the resources they need to keep us safe we now come to leave the opposition Kama Mr Speaker can I warmly welcome the new member for black Paul South after the representation that fine town has had recently it’s good to know they’ve got a proper Champion back at last can I also warmly welcome the new labor MP for DOA these fenses Mr Speaker if one week a Tor MP who’s also a doctor says the Prime Minister can’t be trusted with the NHS and joins labor and the next week the Tor MP for DOA on the front line of the small boats crisis says the Prime Minister cannot be trusted with our borders and joins labor what is the point of this failed government staggering on well Mr Speaker can I actually join him in welcoming his newest MP for black pool I must say he looks a lot happier than the member who was sitting there last week uh but let me let me also let me also join with him and let me join with him in congratulating all new and paying tribute to all former counselors pccc’s and Mayors across the country I I hope his I hope his new ones do him as proud as I am of all of mine Mr Speaker great leaders great leaders like Andy Street great leaders like Andy Street who leave behind a strong Legacy of more homes more jobs and more investment in sharp contrast to the Legacy left by the last Labor government which was a letter joking that there was no money left well Mr Speaker in addition to losing two Tor MPS in two weeks the prime minister’s been on the receiving end of some of the biggest bi elction swing in history he’s also lost 1500 Tory counselors half of his party’s Mayors and a leadership election to Ace how many more times do the public and his own MPS need to reject him before he takes the hint well Mr Speaker this time last year I reminded him of uh some advice actually from his own Mentor Tony Blair who had said who had said at the time that he can be as cocky as he likes about local elections but come a general election it’s policy that counts Mr speaker now one one one year on one year on from that advice one year on from that advice what do he manage 28 billion P of tax Rises 7 new business regulations 30 u-turns and a deputy leader under a police investigation well I’m surprised he brought up a police investig his record is played one Lo no actually two the seat belt as well played two lost two in relation to police investigation but it it’s the same the public keep telling him the voters tell him it’s not good enough instead of listening he keeps telling everything’s fine if only realize his greatness he just doesn’t get it but at least after Thursday night Mr Speaker he can go to the many places that he calls home and enjoy the fruits of his success in southampt or Downing Street he’s got great labor councils at his mansion in Richmond he can enjoy a brand new labor mayor of North Yorkshire and of his P party in Kensington he can celebrate a historic third term for the mayor of London now that he too can enjoy the benefits of this change labor party is he really still in such a hurry to get back to California well Mr Speaker I must say I was I was of course surprised uh to see The Honorable gentleman in North Yorkshire but probably although probably probably not as surprised probably not as surprised as he was when he realized he couldn’t take the tube there Mr Speaker but I can tell him that the people of North Yorkshire the people of North Yorkshire believe in hard work secure borders lower taxes and straight talking Common Sense Mr Speaker they’re not going to get any of that from a virtue signaling lawyer from North London well it was great to be a North aleron where they just voted to reject the prime minister’s proposition Mr Speaker he’s finally found something in common with the British public no matter where he calls home all his neighbors are backing this change labor party and they keep rejecting him because they have sused him out they know there’s nothing behind the boasts the gimmicks the smug smile he’s a do salesman desperate to sell them a dud now Mr Speaker 16 days ago when he held a press conference claiming Victory on Rwanda he said the next few weeks will be about action people want Deeds not words so let’s test that how many Small Boat Crossings have there been since he said that 16 days ago Mr Speaker Mr Speaker actually just before we go on to that he talked about a change he talked about he talked about a change labor party that’s important because he talked about a change labor party he talks about it a lot but just this morning and he also talked about his new mayor in London so just this morning we’ve learned that the labor mayor in London believes and I quote that there is an equivalence between the brutal terrorist attack of Hamas and Israel defending itself and let me be Crystal Clear there is absolutely no equivalence between a terrorist group and a democratic state so can I ask him now will he take this opportunity to demonstrate to demonstrate that that labor party has changed and will he condemn those comments from the labor mayor well I know that was the last run out before the general election but he’s getting ahead of himself in asking me questions but he [Applause] he Mr Speaker I noticed he didn’t even attempt to answer the question he knows the answer since he claimed Victory 16 days ago there have been a staggering 2,400 small vat CR 2,400 that’s a gimmick not a deterent and those 2,400 will be added to the touris Asylum Perma backlog which is forecast to rise to 100,000 by the end of this year now the Prime Minister pretends he will remove them all to Rwanda but Rwanda can only take a few hundred a year at that rate the prime minister’s grand plan would take over 300 years to remove them all Mr Speaker that’s tens of thousands of people with their claims going unprocessed who are going to be here for their entire lifetime living in hotels at the taxpayers expense it is absurd to call that anything other than an amnesty handed to them by the party isn’t it well Mr Speaker he had the opportunity to condemn the comments of his mayor and there who said that there is an equivalence between Hamas and Israel he did not do that and everyone will see what that is that is the change labor party Mr Speaker right there but since I became prime minister Small Boat Crossings are down by a third that’s because we’ve doubled NCA funding increased enforcement rates closed bank accounts to port to $24,000 people process more claims and Mr Speaker when it comes to border control there is a crucial difference between us we want secure borders he’s happy with open borders Mr Speaker the whole country knows that removing less than 1% of Asylum Seekers isn’t stopping the boats it’s granting an amnesty a Tory amnesty but if he thinks the voters are wrong if he thinks his own MPS joining the labor party are wrong if he thinks anyone believes any of the nonsense that he spouts why doesn’t he put it to the test and call a general election Minister Mr Speaker he talks about removing people this is a person who campaigned who person who campaign to stop the deportation of foreign National offenders Mr Speaker it shows how out of touch his values are with the British people but Mr Speaker it’s yet another week where we hear nothing about his plan to do anything on the issues that matter to the country Meanwhile we’re getting on reforming welfare and getting people into work he opposes it we’re controlling migration legal and illegal he opposes it and as we heard Mr Speaker we are boosting defense spending to strengthen our country he opposes it and that’s the difference he Snipes from the sidelines the conservatives are building a brighter [Music] [Applause] future when it comes to small boat Crossing there’s a lot of talk of Human Rights but surely the only human right and life that matters is the life of children who are being taken across the channel in this respect will the government now do the only thing that will actually be a real deterence and that is to arrest and detain all those who land illegally on our Shores and then offshore them promptly so that once and for all we can save lives of and end this cruel and callous trade well Mr Speaker my rable friend is right that these Crossings are incredibly dangerous and they risk people’s lives just weeks ago a 7-year-old girl died attempting the crossing and that’s why as a matter of basic compassion we must do everything we can to break the cycle of the criminal gangs and that’s why Mr Speaker you need a deterrent that’s what the National Crime agencies say that’s how we dealt with illegal migrants from Albania because it’s only by removing people who shouldn’t be here that we remove the reason for them to come in the first place and that is how we’ll control our borders and it’s clear that it’s only this party that not only has a plan to stop the boats but has a plan to stop the tragic loss of life in the channel to SMP leader Steven Flynn thank you Mr Speaker may I begin by also congratulating the Fantastic John swinny on becoming Scotland’s first Minister our opponent should be careful very careful what they wish for Mr Speaker as we await the eminent Israeli incursion into Rafa where 1.2 million people are Sheltering including 600,000 children it’s been reported that the United States has paused an armed shipment to Israel the UK will now follow suit w’t it well Mr Speaker there are gentlemen May realize that the UK government doesn’t itself directly provide arms or ship arms to Israel and when it comes when it comes to the situation in Rafa I’ve been very clear that we are deeply concerned about a full military incursion of Rafa given the devastating humanitarian impact I’ve made that position and point specifically to prime minister Netanyahu whenever we’ve spoken and will continue to urge all sides to focus on the negotiations at hand to bring about a pause in the conflict to release hostages and get more Aid in Steven Flyn Mr Speaker let’s be clear the confidence that Israel has shown in its military Ambitions in in Rafa stems from the silence which has been shown from its allies on the front benches in this place and indeed elsewhere across the world now we know we all know that UK arms and Tech is supporting Israel’s activities in Gaza and will be used in any attack on Rafa knowing that and the devastation which is going to occur surely the time has come to end our complicity and to Halt our own sales to Israel abely Mr Speaker of course we take our defense export responsibilities extremely seriously and that’s why we operate one of the most robust licensing control regimes anywhere in the world we periodically review advice on Israel’s commitment to International humanitarian law and min sisters always act in accordance with that advice and that is crystal clear for the house to understand our position with regard to export licenses following the most recent assessment is unchanged and I know that he will join me in urging all parties to engage in the negotiations that are happening so we can see a pause in fighting to get more Aid in hostages out and then bring about a sustainable ceasefire to this conflict alers uh thank you Mr Speaker uh my constit in rural Villages and on the fringes of the Grimsby CLE urban area are very concerned about overdevelopment they recognize that the highway infrastructure and public services are already overloaded could my right onal friend consider uh amending planning guidance so that local plans and decisions taken by local planning authorities are not overridden by planning inspectors and uh they’d be greatly encouraged if he would agree to meet uh with me and my colleagues from the neighboring gsbor and Grimsby constituencies to discuss this further my friend is right that sustainable development must be at the heart of the planning system and that’s why we’re committed to meeting the needs for housing by building the right homes in the right places and protecting the environmental assets that matter most the national planning policy framework is clear that we should be responsive to local circumstances I know that the relevant local plan in minable friends area is due for further consultation later this year and that he’ll engage with that process but I will happily meet with him and colleagues to discuss his his situation further Ed David you Mr Speaker the abuse suffered by 88-year-old an King at the hands of Staff in her care home was captured on a hidden camera the footage is stomach churning an died in October 2022 and it took nearly a year before the CQC launched a criminal investigation now an’s children are working to protect other care home residents from being subjected to such appalling abuse her son came to see me as his NP to ask for my help in their campaign so will the Prime Minister join me in backing an’s law a proposal to include a national register to professionalize the care Workforce and hold those staff who are abusive to account and will he meet with an’s family and myself to discuss this idea minut Mr Speaker can I first of all extend my sympathies to an’s family for what she went through obviously that’s not appropriate and I’ll make sure that the department engages with him and an’s family on the proposed law and he’s right to say we should have high standards across the care industry and we’re working towards more investment to support our Care Home staff making sure that they have training qualifications to development and we have uh a regime in place that can hold everyone to account for delivering the high standards that we would all expect so it thank you Mr Speaker does my right honorable friend agree with me that one of the greatest things that these back benches bring to Westminster is playing oldfashioned common sense and and it’s darish here common sense darish share common sense that means that the good people of ashborne and surrounding Villages reject the sadik K ules rules and even the 20 mph wells will he join with me and perhaps ask his neor laor if he will pay for the asor buyb well Mr Speaker I know my honorable friend has been a dedicated campaigner for the ashborne bypass and the government is committed to investing more in the Midlands particularly investing every penny of the 9.6 billion from hs2 back into the local area uh and she’s right that we will focus on drivers and their priorities not continue the war on motorists which is waged waged by the labor mayor in London but also the labor party in Wales with both us than 20 mph speed limits it’s this party that is unashamedly on the side of the motorist em thank you very much Mr Speaker our child of the North Cross party Group found that expectant mothers were terminating wanted pregnancies as they could not afford another mouth to feed recent figures show infant and child death rates have increased in the most deprived areas and 50 children have died alone in unregulated accommodation is this his plan for a brighter Britain in action Mr Speaker obviously what the honorable lady has described as tragedy nobody wants to see children grow up in those circumstances and that’s why I’m proud that the government has overseen a significant fall in poverty but particularly child poverty since 2010 for a range of measures and I’ll make and I’ll make sure that she is aware for her constituents of all the support that is in place both through the Department of Health and through the department of work and pensions and local authorities to provide support to the most vulnerable families in our communities John pen Mr Speaker Western super mayor is is a growing town so local health services are rightly growing too Western Hospital is treating more patients for a wider variety of problems than before GP surgeries are offering thousands more appointments this year than last and our new Diagnostic Center means faster tests and treatments but there’s a fly in our NHS prescribed ointment Dentistry isn’t fixed yet a new dental recovery plan is very welcome but when will it mean appointments the wonans can book Mr Speaker our Dentistry recovery plan will make dentist Services uh Dental Services faster simpler and fairer for patients funding around 2 and a half billion more appointments uh and I was pleased to note that access is improving in my honorable friend’s area with almost 10% more children seeing a dentist in June last year than the previous year but we are going further the new patient premium that was announced last year is ensuring that more NHS denry will be provided and since then at the end of January 500 more practices have said that they are now open to new patients Chris law thank you Mr Speaker it’s now been over a month since a parliamentary Ombudsman delivered a long awaited report on pension injustices yet women born in the 1950s and my constituency have done the and indeed every constituency in this house across these islands are still waiting to he the UK government will listen to these recommendations and deliver compensation Mr Speaker I was proud to see the Scottish Parliament support a motion last week calling for compensation to be delivered without delay but utterly dismayed to see members of the conservative party and the labor party abstain so can the Prime Minister finally set out when wasby women will receive the compensation they rightly deserve yeah Mr Speaker I understand the strong feelings across the chamber on this topic and the desire for urgency in addressing them however following the ombudsman’s fiveyear investigation it is imperative that we take the time to thoroughly review the comprehensive findings that have been published an update to the house will be provided once the reports findings have been fully considered uh more broadly we are committed to ensuring pensioners have the dignity and security and retirement that they deserve and most recent increasing the state pension by £900 thanks to the triple lot Philip Davis thank you very much uh Mr Speaker is the prime minister as appalled as I am at reports of militant uh civil servant Trade union political activists seeking to find ways not to implement the Rwanda deportations does he agree with me that if they are not prepared to implement the will of the government and Act of Parliament that was passed by both uh Houses of Parliament that they should conclude that being in the civil service is perhaps not for them and maybe they can look for alternative employment at other leftwing organizations that M masquerade as being impartial maybe they could try the BBC or Channel 4 News yeah yeah well Mr Mr Speaker you know my expectation is that civil will continue to be committed to supporting our priority of stopping the boats and deliver in accordance with the civil service code he’ll know that we made specific changes to ensure compliance with that code as we push through with our plans uh but I agree with him more broadly that we are the only party that has a plan to stop the boats and we will face down all the obstacles in our way to deliver on this crucial priority for the British people and whoever stands in our way whether it’s the labor party or others we will deliver for this country on this vital [Applause] issue Mr Mr Speaker China has now hacked the data of Defense Personnel the Electoral commission various other public institutions and has targeted many members of this house and yet Plans by China’s largest wind turbine manufacturer mingyang Smart Energy to build its largest European facility right here in the UK Advance at PACE with the facility set to be built in Scotland given widely shared concerns about the involvement of hostile states such as China in the UK’s critical National energy infrastructure does he not agree that now is the time for this project to be paused to be reviewed by the government on National Security grounds and if not what message does he think that sends well as I’ve said repeatedly China is a country with different values to ours and is acting in a way that is increasingly authoritarian at home and assertive abroad it’s right that take firm steps to protect ourselves against that particularly in the area of Economic Security which is why this government passed the National Security and investment act precisely so that we can screen transactions without commenting on individual ones of course uh to protect this country and we have used those Powers not least to block Chinese investment in a sensitive Semiconductor Company uh but also to ensure that the Chinese State nuclear company had no part in the future of our nuclear PL so he can rest assured that we’re alive to challenges and have passed laws that give us the powers to protect against them thank you Mr Speaker a 5-year-old Benedict BL was a lovely little boy who attended a primary school in my constituency sadly however he died of aniplexus a severe allergic reaction the coroner inquest has not yet reported but speaking generally on average two two children in every class have a food allergy and allergic reactions take place more in school than in any other setting outside the home severe allergic reactions are on the rise and can be fatal yet there is no explicit legal requirement for schools to have allergy medication an allergy policy or other recommended safeguards being made available there is only guidance will the Prime Minister meet with me and Benedict’s parents Helen and Pete so that we can discuss a way forward to ensure the children who suffer from allergies in schools can be more safe including schools having an allergy policy adrenaline pens and staff who know how to use them well firstly can I extend my sympathy to Benedict’s family it’s tragic always to hear about the loss of a child and we fully understand the seriousness of severe allergies and believe that children with medical conditions should be properly supported to enjoy a full education and be safe at school now there is a legal Duty on the governing body of schools to make arrangements for supporting pupils including setting out what needs to be done symptoms treatment uh but I will ensure that my rable friend gets a meeting with the health secretary to discuss how we could further support pupils with serious allergies [Music] spell yesterday his Chancellor confirmed that it’s government policy to abolish National Insurance a46 billion annual cost and no indication of where the money is coming from so can the Prime Minister rule out further freezes on tax allowances or an 8p increase in income tax to pay for it well Mr Speaker it’s total nonsense and of course I rule that out and let me just close Mr Speaker there there is no unfunded policy what we have said is that we have a long-term ambition to keep cutting National Insurance to end the unfairness of the double taxation on work we’ll make progress towards that goal in the next Parliament just as we already have in this by cutting National Insurance by a third in six months delivering a900 tax cut at the same time is increasing investment in the NHS and increasing the state pension but it’s increasingly clear what this reveals is that the labor party opposes tax cuts for working people Angela Richardson thank you empowering local pharmacies is a key part of this government’s plan to cut waiting lists in Guilford we recently lost two neighboring pharmacies but good news Mr Speaker I’m pleased to report that by working diligently with local pharmacists concerned residents the minister and the ICB I have helped to secure a new Pharmacy in bord will my right honorable friend join me in welcoming this new far Pharmacy and does he agree that it is vital residents should have access to a good efficient and above all local pharmacy well Mr Speaker I care deeply about the future of our community pharmacies I’m very pleased to hear about my honorable friend’s success and securing a new Pharmacy for her constituents joining the 10 and a half thousand others across the country and she’s now right about the important role that our local pharmacies can play that’s why we’re backing them with £645 million of additional funding through Pharmacy first so that you can now go straight to your pharmacist receive treatment for seven of the most common elments saving you time and ensuring that patients get the care they need quicker and closer to home Mr Speaker last Friday the guardian reported uh major structural deficiencies at stepping Hill Hospital in Stockport stepping Hill’s major out patient building the radiology department and the critical care unit have all been condemned in March I met with senior official officials at Stockport NHS trust they were very clear that a sustained lack of capital investment is the root cause of problems at my local hospital Mr Speaker does does the Prime Minister believe that our hospitals quite literally crumbling is the price worth paying for the 14 years of successive conservative failure Mr Speaker we fully recognize the need to invest in health infrastructure across the country including at stepping Hill hospital and that’s why we are currently spending around4 billion a year for trust to spend on necessary maintenance and repairs on top of the 20 billion P new hospital program and the additional funding that was put aside to deal with rack maintenance but he talks about a legacy of the NHS all he needs to do is look at the party his party’s record in Wales where people currently are experiencing the worst A&E performance and the longest wait times anywhere in Great Britain thank you Mr Speaker Mr Speaker Nottingham City Council is expecting to fall short of its housing Target by 6,000 new homes last time this happened rushcliffe as a neighboring Authority was forced to take thousands of homes on top of its own housing Target which led to huge pressures on our green spaces and public services so can my right honorable friend reassure me and my constituents that the changes we’ve made to the planning system will mean that this time we will be protected from Labor’s failure in Nottingham my honorable friend makes an important point and why on this while on this side of the house a conservatives Bill believe in building the right homes in the right places with local people having a say all labor would do is impose top- down housing Targets on areas decimating our precious Countryside and in Nottingham sh as she says you can see the difference Mr Speaker between the well-run conservative County Council compared to the bankrupt Nottingham Council which has left residents to pick up the bill from their pracy carine Lucas thank you very much Mr Speaker untreated sewage was pumped into English waterways for more than 3.6 million hours last year and into the sea of Sussex beaches three times in the last 24 hours alone yet since privatization the water companies have been allowed to rack up debts of over 64 billion and their shareholders to pocket 78 billion in dividends the majority of the public including 58% of conservative and 80% of Labor supporters want to Turf out the profiteering polluters they want water brought back into public hands when is he going to listen to them and end the legalized scam of privatization well Mr Speaker our plans have gone to tackle this have gone further than any other previous government in fact we now monitor 100% of overflows up from just 7% under the labor party we’re investing a record 56 billion into our water infrastructure and we’ve enshrined inlaw strict targets and introduce unlimited fines for water companies holding them and their bosses to account so it’s Crystal Clear that the record shows that there’s only one party who has a clear plan to tackle this issue for the environment and it’s the conservative party final question Matt Vickers thank you Mr Speaker everybody knows that Stockton is a great place with great people and a great football team my right honorable friend recently visited the mighty Stockton town to see the incredible work that they do in the local community and heard about their promotion battle I’m sure he’ll want to join me in congratulating Mickey dunwell and the mighty anchors on their promotion well uh Mr Speaker it was fantastic to visit sown FC with my honorable friend who was a brilliant Champion for his local community which I see firsthand on a weekly basis and let me join him in congratulating everyone at the club on their well-deserved promotion and I hope some of their good luck rubs off on Southampton in the coming weeks that completes prime minister well that was prime minister’s questions for today and we got a real surprise just at the top of it statement from Natalie elik who was a conservative MP who just defected to labor I think we can bring you footage the footage of the moment that she walked across the house and we can see some of the reaction of some of the conservative benches on the left hand side of your screen as she does this see people pointing somebody runs up to um the chief whip Simon Hart as well and whisper something in his ear so clearly it took a lot of conservatives by surprise our political Deputy political AED Sam Co is s sitting next to me watching this um Sam this is a blow for the Prime Minister isn’t it no b no make no mistake I mean it’s a gutter punch uh a defection that was absolutely not on the cards wasn’t expected there weren’t any rumors uh at about 2 minutes to 12 2 minutes before the Prime Minister stood up for what was always going to be a Blood Sport of a prime minister’s questions uh to discover with no warning at all that the person that you’re looking at at the moment Natalie Alik who’s been a Tory MP since 2019 for DOA had defected and not only defected but defected all the way through to Labor uh the principal opposition will have hurt and it will have hurt on a number of levels because when you look at Nat alix’s career you would have maybe even thought that she was somebody who was who leaded a little bit more on to the right of the conservative party uh given some of her public pronouncements given her backing for Liz truss and yet here you have somebody who has chosen to endorse the labor party and disavow the party that put her in Parliament in the strongest possible terms and let’s let’s look at some of those terms we’ve got an exert from her statement which is pretty excoriating she said when I was elected in 2019 the conservative party occupied the centerr of British Politics the party was about building the future and making the most of the opportunities that lay ahead for our country since then many things have changed the elected prime minister was ousted in a coup led by the unelected rushi sunak under rushi sunak the conservatives have become a byw for incompetence and division the center ground’s been abandoned and key pledges of the 2019 Manifesto have been ditched meanwhile the labor party has changed out of all recognition since 2019 it’s moved on from Jeremy Corbin and now under Kia starma occupies the centerr of British politics it has accepted brexit and its economic policies and defense policies are responsible and can be trusted ouch yeah and I think the little bit of that statement that you just read out that Labour will be particularly pleased to hear or you frankly labor party officials probably wrote it but but but to have had her indors was the line labor has accepted brexit yeah and I think it is that that sense that uh some of the key messages uh that sustained the conservative party in the 2019 election are now being ripped up in their face by some of the MPS who elected on that what what she’s sort of saying if if I if I could interpret her statement you know sort of putting her eggs in the in the Boris Johnson Camp She said Boris Johnson’s conservative party was one I could back I to me she says that felt like a centerr party uh and where we are right now uh it’s descended into into chaos uh as as we alluded to her own political Journey has has taken some um uh curves uh and uh the backing of Liz truss I think would would would perhaps Place her in in a certain place in the party so for her to go all the way across her argument and it’s a lengthy statement I have to say um her argument for for defec into labor seems to be uh built here on uh one of social justice she feels that the uh conservative party can’t deliver uh that the kind of uh change whether it was tackling whether it’s tackling homelessness Building Homes uh whether it’s uh small boats uh that’s the the foundation of her argument um uh we’ve been looking through some of her recent statements uh aside from the from what she’s uh put out today and and what you learn about her is that in that DOA seat she understandably was somebody who uh was who felt that she needed to do something about the boats policy in particular because uh the small boats coming from France hitting that constituency uh more than more than more than almost any other um but I also think it’s fair to say that she felt that the government could be doing more and different things alongside Rwanda now there’s no public statement of her disavowing the Rwanda policy but it is I think the case that she was wanting more returns agreements with France and and and and some of the other things that that that that that the Tories haven’t done that labor labor are looking at so it feels like on that absolutely key metric she uh was was not in complete lock step with her with her her party of this morning but maybe a bit closer to our party of this afternoon now okay Sam well we’ve got our panel of MP here to comment on on prime minister’s questions but but slightly been overtaken by the events just before it we’ve got Steven Hammond the conservative MP for Milton very much got the Short Straw today I think Angela Eagle labor MP acting Shadow employment Minister down at the end and Christine JY liberal Democrat MP for Edinburgh West well Stephen to you first of all on on Natalie alix’s defection two MPS in two weeks is is the conservative party in freeall no it’s not in freefall and um i’ like everybody else was extraordinary surprised and I’m even more surprised at some of that statement I mean after all if been someone who has done as much as anyone to drag my party away from the centerr of British politics in The Last 5 Years it’s been Natalie and Sam said she’s had Curves in her journey well she’s had I mean urns I think at times I mean it if you want to find someone who was to the real right of the conservative party and has always been there with the exception of housing I’m staggered that she has made this decision I heard his statement for the first time like everybody else one of the things that will be causing surprise amongst a lot of my colleagues is some of some of those remarks and of course you know we all know the fact is unfortunately for her that when you defect you know disliked by your old party and distrusted by your new and she’ll find that out fairly quickly she says in her statement we need to move on from the broken promises of Rishi Sak’s tired and chaotic government some would say if you look at the local election results last week the voters agree with her I think the election results last week were very disappointing and let’s be honest they were poor for us um but they were talking about some of the issues that are still confronting us and a hangover from things we’ve seen before in terms of the fact that cost of living crisis is still heavily in people’s minds although inflation is coming down and there’s more money in people’s pockets as from this April uh yeah of course it was a very difficult time at the last local election results um but I I think there are still a number of issues that are going to come up over the next few months that mean that the election is still not a foregone conclusion um before before we come to Andre e we’ve got the grab of the moment that Kama welcomed his new uh labor MP should we just have a listen to that Mr Speaker can I warmly welcome the new member for black Paul South after the representation that fine town has had recently it’s good to know they’ve got a proper Champion back at last can I also warmly welcome the new labor MP for DOA to whoes Angela what kind of Welcome will she really get somebody who as you know Steven was saying was was sort of seen as somebody who possibly was more towards the right of the conservative party within the labor party well I think we always like Sinners who repent um it’s it’s always difficult it’s difficult to back to say say anything else well I mean if Liz truss wanted to um cross the floor to the labor party I’m I’m not quite certain that we’d give the same welcome that we’ve just given toal she going to have to go to confession I mean I mean Natalie said uh that uh this was a tired and chaotic government um which is falling apart and she also said as you’ve quoted that the t uh that really now the conservative party is a byword for incompetence and division well I couldn’t have put that better myself and I think that the electorate are coming to that opinion although not one single vote has been cast in the general election yet we’ve had some very encouraging results in last week’s election and we’ve got a government that is tired and incompetent that keeps pre issuing press releases about consultations that are going to finish after we’ve had to have the next general election saying they’re going to do a load of stuff that they haven’t done for the last 14 years where have they been for 14 years they’ve been creating uh certainly since 2019 a parliament where people will be worse off at the end of it than they were at the beginning of it uh and where the tax burden and they claim that they’re a small tax uh party will be higher uh now than it’s been for the last 40 years but the double whammy is that our public services are falling apart at the seams we’ve got the NHS waiting list the longest they’ve ever been so they’re a failing government they’re falling apart they are incompetent and I think increasingly the the uh country wants rid of them Christine you must be rubbing your your hands with Glee with this because it seems you know we certainly saw in the in these last lot of Elections and potentially the general elections it’s the conservative constituencies that you think the lids can take the you’re going to focus on yes um we’re delighted with the uh election results because we beat the conservatives for the first time in the only 30 years we came second in this round of results and as you see in the areas where we’ll be focusing come the general election but can I just say I’m going to does that mean that you’ve given up fighting labor no because there we will be um there are seats like Sheffield talum where labor of the opposition so we will be fighting and focusing our resources in seats where we believe that we can win and can I just say I’m going to run off to The Bookies after this and put money on who I think will be the conservative MP defecting next Wednesday for just in for pmq I have no idea at the moment but about well whoever it is there were more rumors about who they might be than there was for today’s uh def right now it there is no doubt that emotions are running very high inside the conservative party the these things are a sucker punch when when they happen te tell of two responses we’ve just had the official response from the conservative party um which says that the people of the do and deal constituency will be disappointed we wish Natalie Ali well as she has to support labor Amnesty on migrants um so that was one response the the official response I can give you one unofficial response um from a conservative let’s let’s put it no more than that um they really are taking the absolute swear word dregs and then this person names who they think will be next I won’t name them now because we don’t know um uh Stephen Hammond the absolute drgs no um I’ve known Natalie for 20 years or longer I’m very disappointed as I said she has always been and been very clear about her views which are one of the reasons why I’m so surprised is that she’s always been on the right of the conservative party she was hugely critical of Kia starma up to only a month ago about his immigration policy and relying on the French and you there’s any number of tweets you’re about to receive from colleagues that are going to point that out so I’m I mean I’m surprised I’m surprised and disappointed you’re giving us you’re giving us lots of surprise you’re giving you’re almost sort of suggesting a certain amount of her statement being disingenuous then tell us why do you think she did defect isn’t it because she just doesn’t want to associate herself with the perception I imagine the perception of being in a party with a prime minister who who quite frankly looking at the local election results as a loser I’ve got no idea why she’s defected not and you’ve got her statement you’ve read it out Sam I mean I think the issue here is you know is that is that the reason why she’s really defected is there other things happening last week there was a rumor of a deal done with Dan polter whether that’s true or not I don’t know I am I’m genuinely surprised she’s not someone who you would have expected this to happen it’s not clear to me that she has ever been supportive of any of the policies that the labor party have ever had on immigration previously and therefore therefore why what what is she going to gain out of it however much you can pick inconsistencies there’s just the smell of death about the conservative party right now isn’t there I there’s the smell of death no so in prime minister’s questions Angela we had on staying on that subject of migration this line uh about the boats from Kama 1% of people are going to be my be removed to Rwanda the rest it counts as a Tory amnesty is this a new line of migration that we’re getting from I mean the the effect of not removing anybody not stopping the boats is that there are increasing numbers of people here are in a kind of limbo where the uh home office aren’t uh aren’t processing them in any way because there’s a law that was passed two years ago which said that they shouldn’t be processed because they’re going to end up in Rwanda the been over 8,000 people arrived this year in small boats so far and the Rwanda deal is only for 300 to begin with we don’t know and the rwandans won’t say how many more people they’ll accept but I think that KIA was right to point out that it on current um on on the current speed of doing it it would take over 300 years for these people to be sent to Rwanda that means in effect they are just being left in a kind of limbo here not able to work not able to be processed to for any Asylum claims not able to be sent back from the countries they came from just existing I mean that is not a viable policy it never has been and therefore I I think to call that an amnesty is only a a reflection of the reality the Practical reality of this ridiculous process that the government have spent so much time on they’re spending so much time on getting the Randa policy this performative cruelty that that they’re not doing the day job in the home office they’re not processing the Asylum Seekers they have they’ve got law which means they can’t process the ones that come over in small boats they don’t seem to be doing anything to prevent um any of the arrivals coming it’s not a viable policy Stephen do do you regret the fact that the Prime Minister has nailed his colors to the marle on this policy do you think that around policy now where we are and looking at the results that we saw last week which could be seen as a as a public vote on that that it’s just not a vote winner or that that people are just not seeing it in the same way that Richi sunak would like people to see it I’ve always argued it should be only one part of the policy because I think the deal we’ve done with Albania and others have have been very successful in actually making sure that doesn’t happen um I I understand that the Prime Minister sees this as a key part of making sure that there is an ter he sees it as part of the answer but it can only be ever be part of the answer what we need to see is more deals like we’ve done with uh the albanians and others uh which must be it’s must be a whole policy another another subject that also came up in prime minister’s questions Andre the Prime Minister asked R she asked K to reiterate that there’s no equivalence between a terrorist group like Hamas and a democratic State like Israel this is after sadik Khan said that there should be equally strong criticism of both Israel and Hamas not quite what he said it KH actually said that there should be criticism of those that take innocent lives on any side of a conflict which is not quite how the Prime Minister characterized it and who can disagree that innocent lives shouldn’t be taken in the conflict that we want to uh deal with conflict stop War stop innocent civilians being targeted get a ceasefire in Gaza get the UN resolution which was passed uh a few weeks ago put into effect which means more into Gaza no attack on Rafa and an immediate ceasefire that is what we need to get so I think with Sadi KH because it seems that there’s a difference between them well you would have to ask um K starma but I think that what sadik has said has been grossly taken out of context he was expressing empathy and sympathy for the killing of innocent civilians in any conflict on both sides both the innocent Israelis that were killed on October the 7th and the innocent uh people who’ve been uh killed in Gaza as well but isn’t there an element of confusion which you’ve just highlighted there about what the labor party’s policy is Rachel Reed was asked about this again this week that there is a concession that labor has possibly lost some Muslim voters because of your stance over there’s a great deal of anger and emotion understandably about the horrific events that are going on uh in uh Gaza at the moment who can’t um be angry and empathized with people who are being bombed in the way that they are at the moment uh we’ve got to check that the international organizations are available to ensure that international law is being properly affected we’ve got to get Aid into people who’ve got no food and no water to drink and we’ve got to stop that attack on Rafa which will uh put uh maybe up to a million and a half people in severe Peril I don’t think there’s much disagreement about that and I think there’s a great deal of um empathy in the labor party not only amongst those people who represent uh constituencies where there are um big Muslim uh votes but everywhere everyone’s horrified by what they’ve seen unfolding in the Middle East Christen was was it a big issue on the doorstep when you’re out campaigning um I I think it is a big issue for a lot of people um is something that people are are telling their local counselors and telling their local pees that they care about more than perhaps housing education I think I I have to be honest and say yes we are all concerned and Angela is absolutely right everybody is horrified by what they’re seeing in unfolding in Gaza and they want an end to it they want humanitarian Aid in and they support the idea of a ceasefire and a two-state solution generally I find but mostly people are concerned about the mess that the conservative government has made of the economy they’re concerned about uh problems with housing they are concerned about the state of the roads transport public services and the NHS critically the NHS and what they they see or what they tell me when they look at Westminster is they don’t see a solution they see more incompetence and that’s not good enough Sam final thoughts from you um Angela Eagle I think there are questions about Natalie alix’s judgment she was suspended from the commons for a day for trying to influence judges are you comfortable with her the Judgment of your on new colleague I mean I I think that there were seven or eight conservative MPS that had written to a judge about somebody’s character thinking back about that um you can’t do that under um uh uh Commons rules it’s about the separation of uh of the judicial and the legislative function uh and uh I I I think that you know that is something that shouldn’t have been done am I comfortable um I always as I said welcome uh repenting Sinners even though I’m not remotely religious I think it’s going to be a tricky day for rich act after uh the third defection in this Parliament from the conservative party to labor we had uh Christian wakeford earlier on in the parliament more recently Dan poter a couple of weeks ago and today naty Alik the do MP indeed well thanks very much to our panel Steven Hammer from from the conservatives coming in answering those questions at Christine Jardine for the liberal Democrats and Angela Eagle for labor as well thank you very much for joining us for prime minister’s questions on Sky News lots more to come up we’re going to get all the latest on that defection in the Commons as Natalie Alik crosses the floor leaving the conservatives and moving to labor stay with Sky News [Music] [Music] hello you’re watching Sky News today it’s 1:00 these are our headlines breaking news a second Tory MP within two weeks defects to labor Natalie Ali crossed the floor of the commons just before pmqs and protested what she called the broken promises of rushi Sak’s tired and chaotic government also ahead court of appeal judges hear arguments over whether the Nottingham attacker’s sentence was unduly lenient the families of valdo kakar’s victims demand True Justice after he was initially spared jail and given an indefinite Hospital order the mother of murdered 16-year-old Brianna gai tells Sky News new plans to improve Internet safety for children don’t go far enough America admits it paused a weapons shipment at Israel’s military over fears of a fullscale assault on Rafa as a key Border Crossing into Gaza is reopened and you swear that you will well and truly serve his majesty King Charles in the office of first minister of the Scottish government the real that the new S&P leader John swinny is sworn in as Scotland’s seventh first [Music] Minister hello good afternoon we begin with that breaking news that richy soon has lost another MP this afternoon his second in less than a fortnight Natalie Alik who’s the MP for DOA and deal where many of the migrants who cross the channel end up criticized government policy in particular on small boats bioc security and housing this was the moment that she crossed the floor of the House of Commons just as prime minister’s questions was about to begin you can see her walking in there and then on to the labor side just minutes earlier she’d issued a statement saying when I was elected in 2019 the conservative party occupied the centerr of British Politics the party was about building the future and making the most of the opportunities that lay ahead for our country since then many things have changed under Rishi sunak the conservatives have become a byword for incompetence and division the center ground has been abandoned and key pledges of the 2019 Manifesto have been ditched we need to move on from the broken promises of Rishi Sak’s tired and chaotic government that’s why it’s time for a change time for a labor government led by KIA starma the general election cannot come soon enough well let’s bring in our Deputy political editor Sam coats uh he’s here with me um Sam a massive victory for labor here isn’t it and a complete gutter punch for the Prime Minister Rishi sunat look Tory MPS were already turning up to today’s prime minister’s question expecting Blood Sport of the disastrous results at last week’s local elections which were all counted uh over the weekend massive swings in the Blackpool South byelection losing uh nine out of the 10 mariles and now this defections always hurt and when it’s defection to the principal opposition party it hurts particularly this is the third Tory MP uh to go from Blue to Red in this Parliament the first one Christian wford couple of years ago the second one only a couple of weeks ago that was Dan pter and now today Natalie elik this was a tremendous surprise Natalie Eli there were no rumors that she might defect at all and I think that the fact that she has chosen to jump uh to the other side of the green benches is being has been and is being greeted by Shock by the conservative party for for many she was a Tory mp on the right of the party she backed Penny one leadership election she backed Liz truss in another leadership uh election uh and she has consistently taken a Hardline on the um uh on small boat but didn’t believe as you were saying necessarily that the government had all the answers with its uh Rwanda plan which she backed but also wanted uh perhaps deals uh with France uh she represents the DOA and deal seat that’s a very big Target uh for Labor uh but I think labor will be particularly pleased that there you have a staunch brexiteer uh and in the statement saying uh labor has accepted brexit that will be a big win for K stama who’s looking to reassure those leave voters leave voters and leave areas was something that the Labour party uh did uh well on defections are a moment of high drama and they are a moment of emotion for parties uh while officially the conservative party is wishing her well unofficially uh uh rather the less uh uh sanguin response uh one person telling me uh that the labor party are taking the absolute drgs uh and suggesting that there might be more people to come uh asked whether or not there’s a smell of death about the Conservative Party St Steven Hammond said no but didn’t have much more to say on it yes exactly Sam thanks very much let’s bring CLA Piel former conservative advisor who’s joined us in the studio um CLA how damaging is this for isi sunak two and two weeks what well of course it’s incredibly damaging nobody wants to see defections over to another party ahead of a general election but I think that this just shows the amount of disloyalty somebody like Natalie Ali has for her own party and for her colleagues and it’s left an incredibly bad taste and as Sam was just alluding to privately conservative MPS are walking around and wondering what on Earth Natalie Ali has in common with the labor party so you know there will be some saying good riddens presumably breing between the lines but but Rich needs every every number he can get doesn’t he yes he does I mean the working majority of the House of Commons is now down to probably around about 45 which from an 80 seat majority is substantially less but also I think it’s just the Optics of an individual moving over to a party which is looking to show that it has changed to show that it is moving with the times and it’s interesting the seat of do and deal already has a labor candidate who has worked incredibly hard in the area so it remains to be seen whereas um if Natalie Ali is going to remain as an MP if she’s going to stand down at the next election and what is in this for her because I think she is looking to shore up her own position rather than that of any political party it’s difficult for rushi toit today as well because we’ve got Robert Robert jenrich uh former Minister who is Out On Maneuvers talking about migration today and talking about how he has a different vision for for migration and the home office than than the Prime Minister does and that is on top of a really damaging set of results last week in the local elections that’s right I mean it’s one thing after another at the moment and it’s hard to see how the Prime Minister can recapture the sense that the party is coming together when it seems to be broken in into every more uh different faction than it was previously but I think that this is yes damaging but I think the labor party also needs to take a long hard look at why they’re admitting somebody who has gone against so many of their policies when you look at at immigration as you were just mentioning Natalie Ali was suggesting that Labour wanted more open borders and she wanted tougher border controls more along the Robert jck uh line than the kir starma Labour party line so I’m not sure that she’s going to be entirely welcome within the Parliamentary labor party AR aren’t the labor party just trying to beat the conservatives at their own game I suppose if you look at at what Boris Johnson did and you know appealing to all of these red wall voters you know Oliver party flipping on his head and saying right we’re going to take a bit of of meat from the conservative party and we’re going to bring their voters onto our side but I’m not sure that that’s really going to work in stories like this because you are only looking to take an MP in a in an area which is heavily looking as if it will change to labor anyway it’s not really going to Dent those kind of seats um quite interestingly at the weekend um Huff poost revealed that there were at least two MPS looking to defect so we’ve had 50% of that so I think all eyes are now going to be on the conservative party and uh where the next defection comes from but it is incredibly damaging to a party that needs to pull together what does Russi need to do now to calm nerves amongst the back benches it’s very difficult I’m sure he’s not going to take any advice from me but I think that he needs to look at the policies he’s coming up with not move too far to the right and have something that gives hope for the country because we are going to ask people to go to the polls and vote for us and have confidence in a government that can run a country and if you aren’t going to have policies that are coherent you don’t have a party that is coherent and pulling together you’re not going to win let’s just bring in Sam coot again our deputy just Sam one of the points of CLA was making about you know why why are labor taking this person who’s fought against so many of of their policies in the past I mean I mean obviously something that K armmer has balanced up but but is the labor party weakened At All by by her joining do you think no um like if the shoe was on the other foot you would you would welcome a defection from labor in a heartbeat you absolutely loved Lisa Cameron coming over from the S&P to the conservatives so I I I think that’s some quite frankly baloney every party likes defections when they go their way don’t they well only when it goes their way but all that’s going on is it’s not going your way and so you’re sort of inventing but you know if the boot was on the other foot and it was I mean your arguments rubbish in what respects well you will say you are you you are suggest sugesting it is in some way a bad thing that the labor party have got a defection going to them if there is any defection going to the conservative party you’d be welcoming that but do you not think that this is the labor party accepting people that are so fundamentally opposed to their own policies that they’re just taking somebody just for the numbers I mean that doesn’t really say much for their ability to run a country if all they’re willing to do is just bolster their own numbers and not put their own policies ahead of it did the conservative party accept Lisa Cameron for the numbers I think that was a slightly different uh set of circumstan and bullying within the SNP led to her defection over to the conservative party and I think her views are more aligned to the conservative party than natal’s are to labor let me try the Stephen Hammond question do you think there’s a smell of death about the conservative party it I don’t want to say there’s a smell of death about it but it’s certainly does have that end of days feeling and I think that we felt that for some time and isn’t that the point isn’t what’s going on here not about Natalie Elk’s views and the Curious fit that they would have with the labor party I completely give you that it’s that she doesn’t see her party leader as a winner and she’s picking a side that is more likely to win and that’s just how politics Works they’re D she’s dumping the Tory party because she doesn’t think it’s winning but then I always use the football analogy do you stop supporting your team because you don’t think the managers doing a good job I certainly couldn’t move from sporting Southampton over to Portsmouth it just wouldn’t happen in my lifetime should be the same that is what you ask voters to do that is what you ask voters to do politicians one thing but we do have people switching sides all over the place and it’s part of our political system and it is what we expect swing voters to do yes it is what we expect them to do and I think that we have to give them reason to do so and there are always those that will be entrenched on one side of the other and those float of votes in the middle are the most important that we can try and win okay we’re going to pause there because we have actually got uh some words from Natalie Ali as she just Mak made a statement let’s just listen in well in 2019 the conservatives stood on a Manifesto that was very much centerr but under ISU act they abandoned the center ground and broken many election promises meanwhile under K stama labor have changed and I think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country and that’s why I so Keen to join the labor party and play my part in bringing that important future forward okay in the past you’ve criticized Labor’s immigration policy um you said uh that Labor’s policy was open borders pro-immigration it doesn’t want to stop the boats labor cannot be trusted uh on immigration um have you changed your mind on that and just again have La offered you a perance so under Rishi Sak he is the man who said he would stop the boats and yet when we look at this year alone it’s record numbers of small boats arrivals so he’s not stopping the boats and he’s letting the country down well meanwhile under labor they are clear that they are it is important to have defense and they want to make sure that they have good National Security so I think we should have confidence that labor are the party who will tackle this issue of the small boats so just just finally then have have Labor offer would you appear Rich no um what I’ve said uh that I will do and what I’ve been asked to do is to contribute in the area of housing which has been a long-and area of experience for me and it’s absolutely vital that we build the homes the country needs because under isi sunak we’ve seen house building simply collaps in this last year um and going forward it looks like it’ll be another Mis Manifesto promise from the conservatives not 300,000 homes but probably half of that number so I’m really pleased to be able to join the labor party the has changed and it will be building the homes that our country needs so there we have the words out of Natalie alix’s mouth uh Sam um there the words out of Natalie alix’s mouth it feels like she’s saying the script written for her by labor advisers we were very quickly on message I thought in that uh in in in that um look a number of takeaways from that first of all I mean she was full in the the the lab party branding you could see the Union Jack scarf you could see the Union Jack behind her and and I got a hint of a transatlantic s s about the whole look your words not mine um not wishing to be rude but it’s just it is it is very British Airways of old your words not mine um uh a couple of factual takeaways uh from that as well um uh look she appeared to concede she wasn’t going to contest the seat of of of do and deal uh by by denying that she got a page but said that her contribution was around housing that doesn’t sound like something there is a labor candidate already working uh in that seat so it doesn’t sound like so it sounds like she’s coming to the end of her parliamentary career which I think will be quite an important uh Dynamic uh and uh yes s of embracing the fact that she’s having to effectively change position on migration we’ve got a k starma grab as well let’s just bring you his reaction I’m delighted to welcome Natalie Ali to the labor party she’s got a strong track record on issues such as housing she’s on the front line when it comes to the crisis of small boats and the reason that she’s given for joining labor party is very very important because I think she speaks for very many Tory voters in saying that uh the Tory party has changed it’s left the center ground uh but equally the labor party has changed and we are very clearly the party of the national interest of country first party second and I look forward to working with her on the mission uh to deliver the real change that this country desperately needs are there more MPS that you that might be defecting I think there are very many Tory voters um who genuinely feel that the party that they may have voted for um many many times in some cases uh is no longer the Tory party that they see and I say to every Tory voter um who feels that they want to be part of a national mission to change our country for the better uh that the project we’ve built here in this change labor party is a project that I hope they would feel that they could get behind yes so St with there let’s re bring in CLA pieron former conservative advisor so what did you think of of Natalie Al’s justification moving I think Sam’s right that it was quite quite heavily scripted by the labor spans they’ve obviously given that some thought given it to her and um sakir sta was saying exactly what you would expect the leader of party to say that he’s very excited by it he’s not going to say anything else it’s very scripted it’s very fortuitous on a day where there is prime minister’s questions leading the news agenda going into the evening and the fact that she was a brexiteer that is important he didn’t reference that did he which I thought was quite interesting you know but it was something was in her statement and something you think Sam is important I think it is and uh that kind of coastal brexiteer uh disillusion with labor is something that K st’s labor party wants to wants wants to turn around as he looks to reach out to lot of different bits interestingly there’s been one acid note from a member of the labor party just now uh Rosie Duffield who is a a labor MP who’s not always seen eye to eye with kid starma uh her reaction to kid starma sitting with Natalie Ali because they’ve released pictures of that is simply well at least one woman from Kent has got a meeting uh and then a wink Emoji uh on social media so um some uh irritation being expressed in parts of the labor party there uh but I think o overall label will be absolutely thrilled that somebody who do and I think I think it is because um Natalie Ali does not represent their politics that they will try and claim this as such a big win of course conservatives will Express befuddlement how somebody of Natalie alix’s views can mesh with a labor party under kiss Dharma but in some ways that’s the point you need to you need to be able to attract people from across the Spectrum and that’s why they’ll be they will attempt to claim it as such a big winner okay Sam coats and CLA pel thank you for coming in thanks both very much now moving on a decision over the sentencing of the Nottingham attacker valdo kalakan is expected within the next week after the Attorney General’s bid to have it changed was presented to court today valda kakano was given an indefinite Hospital order after admitting manslaughter by reason of diminished responsibility prosecutors accepted the 32-year-old’s not guilty pleas to murder charges at a sentencing hearing in January after medical evidence showed he has paranoid schizophrenia well the calican fatally stabbed 19-year-old University students Barnaby Weber and Grace Malik Kumar as well as 65-year-old school caretaker Ian coats in Nottingham last June as well as injuring other people the Barrister for the Attorney General said the court needs to consider whether a punishment element is required in calak car’s sentence the harm caused and the harm risked in this case to members of the public by the offenders crimes uh was extreme there are no decided cases of a similar level of seriousness and therefore the court is invited to consider whether in the particular circumstances of this case a penal element was required and whether the sentencing judge Ed in imposing the hospital order with restrictions that he did concurrently on each offense well let’s go live to the all courts of Justice our crime correspondent Martin brunt is there for us and Martin the families of of the young students who died were in court as well today weren’t they yes they made the point that they hadn’t uh urged the Attorney General to bring this um matter to the court of appeal but um they were very supportive uh and they sat for the best part of an hour through this hearing it was rather shorter than we expected uh all over in perhaps 40 minutes although of course it’s not entirely over because we still haven’t had the judge’s decision we’re going to have to wait uh a bit longer for that um but the family sat there and they heard the Attorney General’s lawyer talk about how kalakan culpability was low because of his mental health uh that was accepted but there were aggravating circumstances said the Attorney General’s lawyer the level of planning and premeditation the use of two weapons on his victims not just the knife but the van he used uh to Ram other others of his victims um and there were other people who weren’t hurt but were uh also put in danger by his actions um the lawyer said his culpability wasn’t extinguished by his mental health impairment now after this brief hearing we heard from uh the families of the victims who explained that uh they were supporting this action uh but also talked about the other battles that they are they are waging on behalf of their uh their lost children and we heard this from sanjoy Kumar who’s the father of Grace Ali Kumar it is very very hard for all of us to go through this process when all we should be doing is grieving really for our our children but we’re here instead fighting for them but we will fight we will fight all of the organizations that failed us and what has becoming abundantly clear is the long list of people organizations that failed us we have two police forces nottingshire and leerer that failed us we’ve got a mental health trust that failed failed us we’ve got our NHS trust that failed us we’ve got the County Council that failed us how many more people do we need to add to the list of failures and that’s why what we are saying is that to join all of these investigations together we would robustly ask for a public inquiry the Attorney General’s Arguments for a tougher sentence were countered by um objected to by uh the lawyer for for kakani um he said that none of these crimes would have been committed but for kakani psychosis something he’d suffered with since 2019 uh he said and that psychosis wasn’t the result of drugs or alcohol or any of uh his client’s behavior um before uh this psychosis overtook him uh said kakar’s lawyer he was an ordinary man who even managed to put himself through un