Episode 236 of The Independent Characters has Carl and Josh covering rare and coveted Warhammer 40k Materials from the past in the second installment of what we affectionately call “Show and Tell.”
Over the years, Games Workshop has produced and released many very cool and specialized products for many of its ranges. The Warhammer 40,000 universe has possibly seen the most of these rare and wonderful products. In this episode, each host has selected two rare items from Warhammer 40k and does a short dive into what the items are, what they mean to the Warhammer 40k universe, and then discusses why the item is of interest to them and likely the community as a whole!
This is the second in a series around these types of materials. If you want to hear coverage of some specific item, let us know!
We are aware of Carl’s camera issues again. It might be time for us to upgrade…
We hope you enjoy the show.
Time Stamps:
00:00:00 – Intro
00:01:22 – Patreon Sponsors
00:12:01 – Elite Choice
00:23:59 – Hobby Progress
00:41:47 – Games Played
00:44:58 – Main Topic – Part I
01:22:22 – Main Topic – Part 2
02:32:05 – Finale
Relevant Links:
https://www.patreon.com/theics – Support us on Patreon
http://www.tablewar.com/ – Tablewar! – SPONSOR
https://herrickgames.com/ – Herrick Games & Hobbies – SPONSOR
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk – Forge World
http://www.games-workshop.com – Games Workshop
http://www.blacklibrary.com – The Black Library
[Music] [Music] welcome to the independent characters episode 236 this is Carl this is Josh yeah and we’re going to be talking about uh rare 40K materials too this is our second installment of the rare 40K materials foray into the depths of the black Library yeah yeah we got some uh I think we got some really interesting things to discuss here yeah uh if you are listening this is a episode that benefits greatly from the video so check us out on YouTube because uh we’re going to be showing a lot of artwork as we as we talk yeah but uh we will do our best to describe what we are talking about for those of you who are not watching but this is definitely like visual aids are some specific images will be referenced and things like that so and here you can see a Space Marine shooting another [Laughter] Bolter anyway all right uh yeah so before we get into all of that uh we have a couple quick announcements uh the first is wanted to thank our sponsors patreon members uh Rich Burell yeah and Jamie mckendry fantastic thank you so much for your support it really is making a huge difference for us uh it’s allowing us to do some things that we’ve even got a couple other ideas we were just joking around about earlier but um more stuff is coming if you’re watching on YouTube you can see a little bit looks a little different this time around yeah hopefully this works out well I think it’ll work out well when we do um we have guests on as well absolutely yeah there’ll be like a Giant floating head the overlord like uh like in that Apple commercial that mat commercial yeah anyway uh also wanted to mention we are now a part of the goonhammer media Network so check out uh media. goon hammer.com for more shows and information what does this mean I mean it was funny they reached out to us and they’re like well we know you guys value the independent and independent characters but you know we’d love if you guys would you know um if You’ consider you know being a part of this this network of of different shows and things and I think what to them is goonhammer is I think heavily competition by and large more competitively focused yeah and they thought that our kind of overall holistic look as well as our um narrative look uh really filled a niche there I think it’s the nice way of them calling us old also we are we are I knew a lot of those guys like I think a bunch of them that started it came from the old um old forums that I used to something awful forums yeah and I know Campbell and Dan are part of it and stuff and so you know and since we’re gonna have Campbell jump in Campbell and Dan are going to be going on a little bit of Hiatus while Dan becomes a father again yep uh and is is kind of pulled away in boy spawn 2.0 we have asked if Campbell who loves podcasting would like to join us while Dan is out we’re not poaching Campbell we just wanted to give him a home to land it for a while while he’s out so he can talk about some of stuff and uh Campbell kind of leaped at that opportunity so yeah no it would be great great to have him on I think that’ll be fun Absolut with our new setup right giant Campbell that just his his big old face right on the screen uh okay um and then uh you know if you didn’t listen to the last time we did this show which is uh the rare 40K materials within Games Workshop there are a lot of material that they put out that are collector’s items limited runs that kind of thing and um some of these you know people may not have ever seen or heard of or known that they existed um they were very small runs are for specific things so um we kind of bring a few of those to the Forefront each episode talk about where it sat and and what it does and what it’s all about and and why it’s something that’s kind of cool why it’s a yeah exactly yeah and the win uh okay never how though so that’s that and then additionally there are uh you know we put out the call if you could leave us reviews uh it would be great and uh a few people did leave us reviews so I wanted to just read a couple of them because we saw a little bit of Spike globally uh uh reviews uh in the US uh H Griffin said in the Grim Dark World of podcast about 40K Carl and Company I’ll say Carl and Josh are my go-to podcasts for all things Warhammer it’s so nice to listen to a couple folks talk about things they love in the way I love it too they’re interested in all aspects of the game and hobby they’re not elite players or hobbers or anything else well hold on a second Elite Volleyball not uh no that’s I think that’s a fairly accurate description um they’re just fans of the world the community and the fun I listen to a lot of podcast about 40K in the independent characters is easily my favorite great like super appreciate this review yeah um bear of Sigmar all these were five star reviews which I also really appreciate I mean you know if you want to give us feedback to the show we provide a wealth of places to give us feedback if you felt we didn’t deserve five stars by all means don’t give us five stars but we’re definitely open to hearing it we’re open to hearing it uh and bar of Sigmar says one if you’re into 30k or 40K you should have this show in your rotation to I appreciate the Hobby and the people Centric approach to the universe there’s a YouTube component which works here’s some feedback but I do think the team could lean into a podcast episode and a separate YouTube show yeah I mean with all the time we have yeah we definitely don’t have time for that I two to three hour long episodes is a long time to watch on YouTube and there’s actually been a bit of Discord uh conversation about that specifically of how people are engaging with the YouTube channel and it sounds like a lot of people are either uh listening to the show first and then going back and watching segments like hobby progress Elite Choice uh things like that specifically to see the visuals um some people and it’s it’s uh it was an interesting hearing people’s order of operations of that like some people will listen first so then they have like the theater of the mind and then they’ll go back and watch so see the visual and see how what they Envision compares to what we were describing and then some people are the you will do the opposite like they’ll watch everything first so they get all the visuals there and then they’ll listen to it again while driving or something oh that’s an interesting that’s an interesting point but a lot of people are engaging with both formats of the show so it’s not not like again a three-hour long YouTube video is a big ass to just sit down and watch unless you’re sitting down and painting for 3 hours which is the kind of the big motivation but if you’re only yeah watching for 30 45 minutes an hour whatever and then coming back to it each time you’re painting like that’s totally fine too yeah yeah you know bar Sigmar made a suggestion here too good idea fair is what he said uh I’d love to see the YouTube channel do a quote unquote show of force x topic with an emphasis on the visual aspect of the game regardless great show and I’m glad that IC Squad is back that actually gave me some ideas for shorter YouTube videos we can do absolutely yeah um and we have to figure out how we schedule these kinds of smaller recordings like I think we need to do them on the back of doing the show but the problem is the show takes 3 hours to record and you know by then we’re like oh takes me two hours to get here round trip but we’ll figure it out but but it does give me some ideas where we could especially now do some cool visual stuff so okay uh I don’t disagree with any of that being like YouTube being a a great format for some of that shorter specialized content then we got a review from Vietnam oh nice which is kind of cool like and it’s probably I think it’s an American in Vietnam but I’m not I’m not sure if it’s an xat or not but but um it is interesting I remember the first time like we got some reviews from South America at one point and I was like what the you know like it in my naivity and and I work in the internet industry like I shouldn’t have but I I really was at first US focused yeah and that really immediately snapped into my head oh wait there’s other things to consider anyway uh didn’t not much of a login name here JF n n WJ djd uh great podcast for 40K fans I just got back into the hobby I’m currently overseas this is why I think it’s a probably a expat and this makes me still feel connected to my community as I try to find my new local gaming group this is probably the best review I’ve I’ve read Because yeah it speaks right to what our objective that’s the goal right yeah yeah so awesome uh DJ 860 from the UK uh old friends I’ve been listening to the show for a long time always admire the pauses that are taken by the group when they need a rest or reset yeah yeah uh the show to me now feels like listening to Old Friends cool and the content quality is professional honest fun and positive thanks for providing content for people to enjoy your credit to the Hobby um also I really appreciate this review as well um the break thing I was just watching so you remember Daniel Tosh used to have a show on Comedy Central Tosh.0 yep he now has a podcast called the Tosh show which there’s a YouTube component comes out every Monday I watch that with you were telling me about that I just really like Daniel TSH but he was he was uh interviewing um Michelle we who was a Protegé golfer uh and then she retired very young I mean she’s made Millions but then she retired and he’s like why did you retire like why didn’t you say oh you know because she was like oh I just wanted a break and blah blah so why didn’t you just tell people I’m just not going to golf this year and she goes because if I said I retired people stop asking yeah right I’m like oh that’s interesting cuz the last time we quit the show or I quit the show like I really thought I am I’m done I’ve said everything I needed to say but then things had kind of evolved and you know new new additions new Inspirations it’s like slipping on a pair of old underwear the game goes on and then uh last but not least out of Australia we have uh nhh Jore trip TR YP a real show of force one of the best podcasts ever released a must listen to any Warhammer 40K fan Carl Josh and all the independent character crew share light-hearted and positive positive and engaging episodes that help motivate and encourage any hobbyist so it might have something to do with that I was just in Australia but I don’t know but e either way um you know one of the things about these all came I think from iTunes one of the things that’s frustrating about that is there’s no like way to associate who is that person to this person so that I can like re-engage with them and say oh you know that was a great idea or whatever so this is the only way we have to give you that feedback so thanks for listening if you’re leaving reviews you’re probably listening to the show so thank you I would imagine so thank you very much and and and we do really super appreciate those so should we go into Elite Choice let’s jump in boom let’s go into Elite Choice uh so my Elite choice this go round is Sky herck and this tank that he painted uh for the class that he had up at his uh at his store uh by Rob medwell was the from uh met Miniatures he’s the the instructor um I had a chance to jump into this class and I didn’t take it like I could I actually had like a conflict but um I think a dawn had dropped out of the class cuz he had family issues yeah and he was like you know do you want my ticket I’m like I I can’t make it thanks anyway um and after seeing the work that Sky did because Sky’s a terrible painter I’m I’m joking he’s not he’s not but this is like a step up for yeah no it it looks so it’s a it’s a Kratos tank so it’s a huge tank uh he painted iron hands uh 30k iron hands Kratos tank and because of how well this has turned out and it is exceptional it is a really good looking tank he’s looking at starting an entire Army for it now to go with it but like it looks that good and the weathering the hazard striping the heat effects on the barrel like just yeah it I didn’t mention the heat effects on the barrel cuz I’ve done that before but the rest of this I was like how did they do some of this this looks amazing it’s it’s volumetric without being like overly done to that kind of like almost cartoon like cell shading effect with which some people take that way and that that’s a little extreme for my eyes where this is a little bit more photorealistic combined with that so the tank looks bigger than the model physically is yeah which is like light is physically interacting with that model so that’s a credit to how this has been handled and how the volumes and shades and highlights and things have been applied it’s a great looking model the weather helped a ton too absolutely yeah it it as soon as I saw it I was like oh man I really should have gone to that class that does not look like a plastic toy no it’s really well done so congratulations Sky I think it’s just a fantastic uh miniature and you’ve done an amazing job on it and you know honestly um Rob medwell I mean great instruction yeah I saw the stuff that came out of that class and I was like Wow there was a group shot of all the tanks together and Fant they all looked incredible yeah yeah all right what did you pick uh so I went with Andrew shackle for and his ambot and this is a really I knew you were going to pick this really cool looking ambot um one of the the best executions of an ambot I’ve actually ever seen obviously ambots being necromunda models um this he he really kind of embraced that underhive uh just scummy Gunk feel to it there’s lots of texture to it the OSL is there but minimal it’s not over over the top at all um lots of good like rust effects tons of weaing all the hazard stripes and everything like that have really been beaten back um there there’s a little house dock call out on the shoulder pad which obviously speaks to my it’s the um like multi snake head oh yeah yeah yeah there it is on the the left shoulder pad y um above the hand above yeah uh which speaks to uh my my love of house theck obviously uh just even the the the color choices it’s very muted but it’s like blacks and Browns and kind of bronzy but then you got some orange highlight effects going on with the OSL and the face plate and that is countered with that really nice kind of teal of the the claw itself which is a great use of color theory of pulling those two contrasting colors which you can notice there’s also like that teal in the base the base there which kind of also works as like a little um verree of like bronze verree kind of happening there but yeah um yeah also kind of kind of OS almost like it’s just it just complement the yeah it’s just like kind of the perfect balance of it and just like the the weathering and the grunge paired with some um OSL but not like over the top OSL like again you get the lights the eyes the glows the kind of vents on the back things like that it’s just it’s a really nice balance yeah really really good really great stuff Andrew definitely stood out so thank you yeah a lot like occasionally somebody posts something where we we know like as soon as we see it we’re like okay one of us is going to pick this and and sometimes it’s like all right well I won’t steal this from under Josh you know I you know but this was a great one this is a great one and then I’ll throw in there uh Shell’s kiss which again will yasui I hope I’m pronouncing his last name right we’ve said it enough times hopefully we’re saying it correctly uh and and his neurot Tyrant uh here so there’s some customization to the thing he added some like tentacle stuff customization I saw the before painted sh really liked the use of the Blues in here especially the brain like the glowing brain psychic kind of brain pulsing feel like it absolutely embodies that immediately so good she loved that and then again in color theory like that blue and the pink of the tentacles really nice just color contrast color theory good choice but it’s not like a stark contrast they’re both very pale and muted it’s not like my uh uh pink horse right like it’s not that level of pink it’s like a muted pink I have to tell you this is this is the worst like shell looking at this like she’s been picking out a lot of tyranids lately yeah and she’s looking at this she’s like maybe I should do a tiate army I’m like maybe you should shut up and do your night Lords I’m like she’s like well you know and then she’s looking I go I have tan she goes I don’t like the way your are painted I’m like oh thanks she goes well I don’t like the green and the Browns and I’m like okay fair enough like you don’t like the color Choice she so well is this a usable Army I’m like yes and she goes maybe I should try playing them I’m like you’re welcome to play them you’re welcome to and then I told her what my kind of drawback to playing them is but um so shell is going to have three armies in uh quick order here no she’s not no she’s not we’re going to do the nightl Lords like I’m just focused on getting black Legion stuff done and we’ll talk about that in a second here but so yeah speaking of of let’s just talk about that right now so there was the uh the points adjustment came out yes how’ that impact you um I think both the main armies I’m focusing for 40K now I haven’t looked at necrons yet um but looking at shark sharadon and lar I think both of my list dropped 35 points and it’s almost impossible to do anything in 10th edition 40K with 35 points you could buy uh uh like the strategy things I already have enhancements in the Army so now I would actually have to drop enhancements in order to potentially add a unit to in the The Gap so I I’m still glad it’s happening I’m glad they continue to focus and revisit and adjust things as needed uh this one just left me in a kind of weird like limbo spot of like oh it’s not enough points to really do anything with yeah uh but on the Sharks it does it actually had me inspired I even before the points dropped uh this morning I had been just kind of tinkering with the idea and I was like I really want to lean into this being an assault Army um and have actually prioritized as we’ll get to in Hobby progress like adding a couple units that I’ve had um just getting bumping those up in the paint priority que to just really lean into that um and it has me thinking that oh maybe I need a second land Raider yeah you do uh which I love land Raider yeah I you can not right they’re just so hard to find right now yeah if I if I can find one I will add it and that will uh quickly get bumped with they’re so fun to paint too because it’s just a big box and I have so many cool transfers and it can do all the cool freehand and things on that and weathering um so my list sister the battle went down Five Points okay and up Five Points it totally a wash it’s a wash that’s kind of what you H for black Legion however the list that I have with abidon in it uh dropped 95 points wow yeah now um that may not be accurate but it dropped like I think I was under by like 10 points or 15 points I now have 95 points to spin you can you can definitely do something with 95 points yeah I’m thinking so you’re not done painting your 2,000 points of thousand or not thousand black Legion no well I mean slacker I kind of am like I have a third Rhino I can just throw in there and boom they 75 points and you know get another 20 or whatever I took no enhancements in that Army um well with with uh the one with abidon I can’t but the other one that has the demon Prince and the chaos Sorcerer And Terminator armor uh replacing abidon um that one I could add enhancements to but also we talked about this before I thought about adding those uh Fel Gore Beast beastmen oh right yeah they’re such cool models I love that beastmen are back so good and it would just make such a cool like I like them way more than cultist yeah they’re more expensive than cultist I don’t know that they’re necessarily a great unit but they look so good yeah so I called around this morning I saw Sky didn’t have any in his store at herck games and I called the local G his workshop and he’s like I got two boxes and I’m like I’ll take it can you hold one aside for me I’m going to come down and get it so after we record today I’m going to race down and and pick it up I think and honestly I’m going to slap chop those guys yeah like they look perfect they will lend themselves very well to that with just the natural Furs and things like that yep so uh and God they look so freaking cool like you can spend a little time if you want it to like a like Hazard stripe chains sword or something like that toally totally going to do that but I saw um you know I saw that they they’re eliminating them from age of Sigmar the beastmen and I started looking closely at those models at the age of Sigmar stuff and I was like man this sucks that they’re getting rid of these like these are just cool I’m sure they’re going to move them to they are they’re moving to Old World specifically yeah I should say yeah old world so anyway yeah I mean you know cool yeah cool cool um listen I’m not going to complain about points dropping in my Army yeah no that’s that’s good like yeah termin having more things like even if yeah you fill it up with beastmen and they’re going to grab an objective and like that’s that’s a unit to grab an objective you didn’t have before you can use them for a screen you know whatever like I could honestly stick another Squad of five chaos Space Marines in there but I was like add a little flavor to it mix it up and that’s very representative of a black Legion right having some some mutants some beastmen some Marines some demons like yeah that’s what I like about the Army the whole mix right yeah and in fact somebody a long time ago back when I started in fifth Ed like somebody had made an argument for why chaos space Rings were like the best army to start with at that time and he had said it’s because they have units that have armor like Space Marines they have units that don’t have armor they can have monstrous creatures they can have vehicles you know they kind of ran the gamut of the whole thing yeah and it just made so you got to understand how each of those things worked and I thought oh yeah that’s really I’ve kind of held on to that philosophy ever since those deeper uh drops are probably more indicative of what’s going to happen with the Codex too I’m excited pretty soon and nervous yeah and nervous and shy comes out May 24th season 3 so I’m super excited about that okay moving on should we just jump right into hobby progress I think we should Okay so here’s yours Josh what have you been working on uh so I’ve had a bit of hobby add here and um multiple things the and the problem is it’s not that I don’t know what to do it’s that all these projects are kind of inspiring me for different reasons different time frames um but I but I just want to get them all done and just don’t have enough time right now um but what we’re doing during our hobby hangout live stream the last one we did I really started working on my lar combat Patrol uh because again going up to Toom I would like to be able to have my lar combat Patrol fully painted ready to go and this is kind of towards the end of July so I’ve got a little bit of time and it’s roughly five units uh in that time um so I I’ll see if I can get it done if I don’t I I have Marines and nekron combat patrols ready to go already so this is like a nice to have but it’s kind of of the three combat patrols it’s the one that’s exciting me the most right now so I’m trying to get that going too um and then the next thing I was working on hold on yeah Tacoma open you just mentioned yes uh with the Tacoma open um so we were looking and um the uh my kid is going to graduate college from University of Washington in December but they’re going to come home for Summer Okay in Late July okay and so it’s stupid like we move long story short we moved them into an apartment a while back that’s specific for students But the lease on that apartment ends in like August but then they graduate in December and so I was like oh I’m sure they just like go month to month until you graduate no you have to sign a whole new lease for a year for full school year and and unless you can get somebody to come take the apartment which they would also you can pay them extra to find somebody to take the apartment I’m like there’s no impetus for you to get somebody in the apartment I was just like I was so annoyed so I was like we found a place that they can go month to month for four months so I’m GNA fly up to Washington for the Tacoma open Shell’s gonna go up with me she’s gonna go to Seattle hang out with our kid and help pack yeah I’m gonna go to the event hang out and then we’re gonna rent a van and drive back down with with all their stuff and then they’re going to go back up in September for their final four months and just take what they can they’re going to live in a furnished apartment yeah y I just like what a hassle it’s it’s it’s so ridiculous so ridiculous so anyway definitely not set up for students so you worked on the lar a bit yep so I’ve got uh the window jet bikes in progress here and I’ll just keep chipping away at this as I’ve got some time cool uh next up in the uh hobby add train was my necro necromunda yeah uh these are the outcast gangers so this is like just the epitomy of Hive scum they’re all terrible the leader awesome um and you can see kind of front and center in if you’re watching the video here I’ve got the Victoria Miniatures um this is the adepticon exclusive and you can see cohesiveness of the gang here they all it works really well so as soon as I saw that was going to be the event thank you for getting me a copy of that model that is a great model um yeah that one uh yeah anyways so I just uh this has all been built I did a zenithal prime I think last episode so I’m just trying to starting to block out kind of the main colors because there’s so many different things happening with this warband I actually ended up not airbrushing part of it just cuz my dog has really bad separation anxiety right now so I didn’t even want to go on the garage to airbrush like it’s that bad just with all the health issues going on yeah um but also there’s just such a kind of rag tag of textures and layers and things like that in these models I’m just like I’ll just start start painting them so just kind of blocking in the main colors here and though there’s obviously a long way to go but as we uh are hopefully ra uh ramping up towards uh necromunda for our local group here in probably first week of June um that’s sooner than I thought yeah looking to uh to get things going so I got to get these painted Aaron reached out to me he’s like when are we going to when’s the necron campaign I’m like I don’t know talk to Josh I’m not running this we got a whole Discord group for it yeah there you go all right uh yep so after that uh this is in line with keeping the uh or escalating the shark Sharons to a even more ass soul-based Army so I actually decided uh partially because I didn’t want to paint seven bikes right now eight bikes including the ATV just cuz that’s a lot of model to paint and wasn’t wasn’t particularly exciting me on the the painting project um so dropping out the out Riders chaplain on bike and uh ATV I’ve decided to add a blade guard and a judicar or judicare however you pronounce that one um and this is a combination of the I’ve got three of the Plastics and then three that are more um shark sharadon specific resin printed um that I’m kind of mixing in you can see there’s a couple bits missing so I’ve got some mark five heads and shoulder pads and things that I I’m adding to these and Plasma Pistol and stuff like that uh but just really wanted a kind of dedicated beat stick uh Corner Cornerstone assault unit and this is going to go with my assault intercessors and assault intercessors with jump packs so just really leaning into the assault side of things like that so excited to get these guys painted up pretty quickly all right um and then speaking of the assault interet with jump packs um these guys all had their kind of like they were pure wedding off of like concrete and things like that which you didn’t like which I didn’t like uh and after your visit with the uh play on tabletop up north they one of their sponsor ads for that episode was for kind of like these Jet bike plumes and I’m not usually a big fan of like missile launcher effects and things like that being added to the models but something about the jump jet exhaust uh spoke to me and it was like oh that would be a cool effect and it’ll be fun to paint and something different and just gives this unit a bit more presence yeah um yeah you’re definitely contributing to global warming with all that smoke you’re putting out there oh absolutely we’re we’re polluting a whole galaxy here with with Marines um but this is it’s a really fun just kind of assault based unit I I might these aren’t glued or anything yet I just uh was removing them from their P weding bases and adding them to the the smoke uh and I will change which of them are in some of the positions just to get better uh kind of logistics of how how the models are interacting with the position of that cuz there’s a couple different like tilt I know she got some 3D printed heads in there too the corvis yeah got some Mark 6 heads a lot of Mark 5 shoulder pads uh which I’ll be Prince or a couple of the old um actually was some of the the zenor they have like curved blades that look a little bit more like nautical like that so I’ve I’ve mixed those in with my assult intercessors and things like that so doing a lot of Kit bashing with it just to get more of that kind of rag tag feel I think watching uh Dave Taylor in their latest stream that you and I were watching I know you popped in there together uh we were watching that like when he was showing all the Marines that he had painted which was for his tale of four Warlords and I was like this is ridiculous he has gone like way over but like he did a lot of cool kit bashes on those things just to make them unique and make them his and they just it just stands out so much I like what you’re doing here and like I started out this the non primer version of this Army 10 years ago and that was like the the main focus of this was this is a hobby first Army like I really want to play around with that kit bashing I want to do some a little bit of sculpting with green stuff I want to paint it I want to weather it I want to have blood effects and like and it’s been a really fun Army to go with that so this is just kind of the continuation like in this Army here I’ve got Reaver heads I got mark five heads I got Mark six heads I’ve got some unemed heads um which yeah it’s just all all all fun good mix of stuff and um should be a really fun unit to play with once it’s going to the one thing so I’m using kind of these uh void void bases right now that look very much like um similar to necromunda Bases yeah that kind of underhive um plate and great um thing the smoke I think is going to cover most of that so I’m just trying to decide if I want to base it the same or if I want may not be worth basing that yeah and wasting those bases right yeah yeah so uh I’m just figuring out the basing on that one is so footy uh I did realize after I had popped these guys off their petting base St that I had not drilled out the the barrels yet so I do need to drill out the barrels and then I’ll get them primed up pretty quick and this isn’t this isn’t Jeff no no no yeah no I drill I always drill my barrels there’s your sign off for the show right there that’s right uh yeah so I uh uh I’ll get these guys painted up pretty quick and these with the uh blade guard I will’ll probably paint up in tandem I’ll probably just do you know five at a time like get 15 16 17 dudes done pretty quickly so I am definitely excited to get get some progress going on the Sharks I obviously have a little bit of a time crunch with the uh lar if I want to get that done for Toom open and then obviously necromunda kicking off in June so a little time crunch there so we’ll just yeah you’re kind of packing your schedule we’ll see how the priorities work out again hensing the uh the hobby add that’s happening right now um speaking of necromunda I’ve also been uh printing out some these are these cool Riser tiles that uh these are really cool so the tiles are the existing GW kit but uh amyy are friend from Hawaii uh who did he Design This he designed the Rises on there and he was really smart in how he designed them so it’s like a fullon snap fit under the bottom like this is just friction fit at the moment I will probably end up gluing uh so I’m going to do uh I’m working on a second so what it is is you have the the um necromunda tiles yeah the plastic kit right but under that what you’ve printed is and it looks like you’ve used the pla printer for this yeah um there is like piping and everything it raises those tiles off the Surface by an inch inch and a half it’s about three inches actually is it go to the next no I just uh just kept you one in there um yeah the second one showed the perspective a little bit better um but the yeah it raises the tile about 3 in off the board um because I knew I wanted to do this with so it’s I’m working on a secondary necrom under board which is going to be nine tiles so 3×3 yeah and I want to have at least three tiles that raced up and then I can connect gantries and things like that on that upper level just adding more verticality how long did the print take um it’s about 8 hours a section and it’s four pieces so can you print all four at once or I was having print fill issues trying to do more than one uh it was actually it wasn’t any issue with um like the nozzle or anything it was actually delaminating yeah yeah whatever the outside piece I was trying to do two at a time so you’re doing 32 hours per tile basically yeah y so I’ve got two two and a half done so but to be clear like when you’re 3D printing this stuff it’s like set it and forget it you just print and walk away I’m doing two to three a day just depending like I’ll do one in the morning do one at night and do one during the middle of the day if I can I was printing fantasy buildings that were taking like 72 hours for the various floors each floor separately it’s like yeah you just you kind of forget that it’s running you’re like another day or two I’ll have all three tiles for ready to go yeah and good job he did a really nice job on the design of these uh they they’ll look great they’ll paint up really well obviously I haven’t cleaned them up yet so we got all the extra like spider webbing so just hit it with a little lighter little lighter and that stuff just disappears looks great dude but it’ll it’ll add some cool immediate verticality to the to the board and I did because of I knew I was going to do this I picked up a second set of like the stairs and elevators for um dunda specifically the underhive stuff so um I’ll I’ll have a lot more things that just add add to that levels of necromunda which is really what cool brings necromunda to life so yeah that that’s me all yeah so uh myself uh I finally finished up my Arch Lord discordant um did a little um decal on his oh you miss some gold shut up oh God I hate you so gold edging has been kind of the Story of My Life recently uh this guy was no exception and more so than just the uh the gold like every time I turned around there was another cable that needed to be painted or something like this is a very complex model during our Hobby live stream like oh here’s another cable I thought I was done um in the end uh I’m happy enough with how he came out like I I think I probably could have done a little bit better there’s a few things I probably could go back and touch up but for the most part yeah know it looks good calling them done moving on it’s a model I’m probably not going to use a whole bunch so but it’s just it’s another one done and there again there’s no greater feeling than yeah finishing a model and then putting it on your shelf of all your other models and going oh look parad or as called it right I still love that that chain that you you swapped out the existing plastic like leash it was a plastic like leather strap broke immediately and then I was just like I’m just going to put chain in his place I think it looks much better it’s fitting yeah and then the other thing I’ve been working on if you’ve been following in uh in our uh Discord or or anywhere else is um demon engines yeah you have and gold edging uh gold for days yeah for days um to the point where I’m I’m almost done here I think one of these uh still needs I think I have like four plates to go on him so you got mer fiends and and Forge yeah uh and I already have a forge fiend done so uh after the Gold it’s going to be all the skin stuff and metallic that blends into the skin which you know I love do you dislike the gold or the skin more I I hate painting these models like hate is a very strong word uh somebody said hey why I’m doing three and their weapons loadouts and and somebody said why are you do don’t do all three at once and and I’m telling you if I don’t do all three at once I will not do I will do other two will never go back uh so I need to just push through finish up the edging on one of them the the gold on one of them I need then to do wash and a little bit of highlight on that gold and then the skin work and then you know some OSL stuff and then I’m just done once they’re done they’re done I’ll never have to go back and do another one hopefully yeah you know unless they come out with a new demon engine type um and there’s that spider thing but like it stats aren’t very good so so anyway uh yeah that’s what I’ve been working on and and it’s been a chore like it’s been a struggle I was making such great momentum through the whole Army I went off to Australia I came back like okay back to the gold and and like I would do it for an hour or two and I just be like okay I can’t do any more right now I just can’t s like there there’s some parts of projects that just they do feel like a chore It’s a Grind yeah and like once you have these on the table like again awesome this is probably not a variant of the army that you’re going to play as much so you’re less excited about that in general but like it’s going to be great it’s going to be fun it’s going to hit the table it’s going to get used but getting it there yeah sometimes it’s just not and then the other thing I I’ve been working on don’t have any photos of though is I’ve been working on um getting all the sisters a battle together I still need two seraphim sisters with flamer hand flamer so I’m going to have to buy a set of those did you finish your second Exorcist oh and I have to ass finish assembly second Exorcist dude you want to talk sorry to bring that up I was just I don’t know why I have chosen jod came over and looked at the other one promly broke one of the one of the cherubs off of it I’m like what what are you doing to me uh so that that Army is going to be a challenge it’s going to be a challenge but man it’s going to be cool it’s it’s going to look so going to be so fun and um it’ll be so different from anything else you have too yeah for sure for sure I think they’re a really fun Army yeah so so yeah uh that’s been me uh not as much progress as as previously but I don’t know what a gold edging for me right now is progress that is uh it’s a big step even if it’s not a lot of progress like it is a big step and you got to be careful cuz you know I I did discover um sometimes what will happen is like you know I’ll go I’m fortunately a lot of the stuff is very well lined now yeah but you want to also get the edges of it where it’s you know touching the you know and I’ve airbrushed Grays onto these and stuff and so it’s like occasionally I may miss and stick some gold on the gray I found like if I immediately take a wet brush and just yeah you know sop it and then wipe it up with the towel it comes right off so it’s yeah hard to replicate the Feathering you’ve already done with the airbrush you have to be pretty meticulous with it yeah so I’m always like very like ready to jump in and just clean something that I messed up but uh there’s a few spots that are going to drive me bonkers I’ll I’ll figure out how to clean it up a little it’ll be fine yeah honestly at a certain point I’m like I just don’t care I’m like it be fine whatever so um yeah so that’s our hobby progress uh games played I haven’t played anything I um I did play a game of the old world with Travis and this was actually a couple weeks ago so forgot to mention it on our last episode I won’t go into great detail but we did a full 2000 on 2000 Point again we’re both playing Vampire counts um so it’s uh been um it’s just been it’s been fun to to bring it to life as each game that we’ve played we’ve gone through one of the the like the next scenario in the books oh doing a slightly different scenario each time um just to see what those are about and really just we’re familiarizing ourselves with the core rules and us both playing Vampire accounts we’re getting very familiar with the armies and we like we we’re building different lists very different lists but um but they share a lot in common at the same time and because we’re like using similar units and some of the there’s definitely some overlap like we’ve just have those stats and those rules like really dialed down so so it’s been fun and he’s always a great great person to play a game with um and aside from that I’ve just been playing a bunch of role playing games um I did speaking of role playing games um Rogue Trader was on sale the video game the video game was on sale um and while I was trying to struggle between all the different hobby addd projects that I had well if there’s something that’ll kill I decided to pick it up while I was on sale uh I’m I’m not that far into it but so far it’s been very enjoyable it definitely makes me want to really have you done the whole intro and have you seen like the Rog trador Charter yet I’ve seen the charter like that was for me like a defining moment where I was like oh this thing’s massive like I always pictured it was like a a um like a a college degree oh no it’s a it’s a it’s like the size of the room and it has like all this protection around I was like oh this biting the seror biting the blood that was super cool um so I I’m not not that far in I just got the uh the sister of battle joining my party and like one or two fights out oh you’re very early in so yeah not not not particularly far in but step away yeah and just focus on your hobby it’s a great game though like thematically I think it’s great but it’s it’s pretty incredible how well it’s integrated that whole Rog Trader the just the RPG aspect too like it is very much dark heresy Rogue Trader Death Watch like those Fantasy Flight games made it made me understand like oh this is how you could play a rogue Trader RPG like a lot more it and even just like how the stats work and how skills work and things like that it just it helps bring that to life a bit more it deviates pretty far from it by the way it’s like its own system but it’s it’s cool it’s cool it’s good stuff well yeah it’s it’s been a fun distraction uh which I will hopefully not play a lot of it in the near future because I do have a lot of painting I want get it did suck in a lot of time so I’d say back off so all right all right well let’s do this let’s uh we’ll take a short break we’ll come back and then we’ll we’ll launch right into our main topic and uh and we’ll see where we go from there all right we’ll be right back all right and we’re back we’re going to launch now into uh rare 40K materials um two rare 40K materials to uh so the um the first thing I wanted to talk about here Josh is Warhammer World um yes please so I’ve now been to Warhammer world I don’t know six or seven times um I don’t know if you heard I went to war um six or seven times uh for for a while um I was working for a company that had offices in Belfast and I had a team that worked for me there so anytime I’d go visit Belfast I’d had a couple days on pop over visit friends yeah in in Warhammer World um or in notingham region London that kind of thing and then I always had to go and check out what was going on absolutely uh have you been yet I’ve not been to Warhammer I’ve been to the UK three times but it’s always like two of those have been Scotland specific one of them was just London we got to set something up yeah I this is absolutely a like this is a goal must happen in the next you know five years it’s pretty reasonable like it’s to get there is not not that unreasonable no uh so anyway um I mean it is when you don’t have a job anyway uh so what I’ve got next next to show is uh these Warhammer diarama books that you could only buy their Warhammer World diarama books and they were only available at Warhammer world uh as far as I know there’s only two of them um at the time that I bought them there were only two uh and they ran about I know 16 lbs at the time so 25 bucks or soy reason they softbound they’re uh about 128 Pages 96 to 128 Pages uh softbound um but what they focused on was many of the diaramas at uh at war hemmer world yeah yeah um and so it’s it’s diar’s uh first edition second edition um and there’s a little bit of overlap between some of them that show you know some uh new pictures some some old pictures and one thing people may not realize is that they rotate those diaramas kind of in and out slowly so they may make a whole new one um for example maybe the Leviathan kit came out sure yep and they’re like well we really need to Showcase Space Marines versus um tyranids for some reason hypothetically yeah uh and they’ll go okay well what do we have that we can move out and Swap this in because they do have a limited amount of space as massive as the museum is that they have there and it is massive uh um there is limited space and it’s packed I mean it’s it’s fully packed so um these books would allow you to kind of relive uh the experience of looking at these diaramas and giving you even some closeup looks at them you know through photos where you would not necessarily be able to um to to see you know that close up um one of the things I experienced when I was at Warhammer world and and I as soon as I saw these books available I was like I I have to buy these like I and I’ve and you know I’d say I look at them maybe once a year or twice a year and just go yeah that was really cool you know just get inspired by those little attention to detail things and yeah absolutely like and if you’re if you’re watching the video again you know we’ll have some photos up and such but um I remember going and seeing one of the diaramas shortly after AE of Sigmar come out and I wasn’t too sold on the stormcast internal sure yep like all right they’re all right you know I don’t really like the heads very much blah blah you know I was never big into Warhammer old world the the fantasy game unfortunately right is right as it was going away I discovered um like Total War oh yeah and they had like this cool intro I was like oh man the old looks really cool I still won’t play the game cuz I’m not into the rank and flank stuff but um but the lore is still amazing yeah but the lore is incredible and the age of sigar lore I have a hard time wrapping my head around it’s definitely harder to approach with how nebulous and the different Realms and spheres and yeah uh John French just released a new book an age of Sigmar book and I’m gonna spend next time he and I chat I’m going to spend some time talking to him about walk me through some of this cuz like I’ve read I’ve read it and I still just don’t it it just seems kind of esoteric as ethereal to me a little bit um but the the uh stormcast eternals once I saw them in a display there as a force as like a whole Army I was like oh oh they look really cool as a whole Army like on an individual unit basis I wasn’t too thrilled with some of the helmets and such but as an entire Army I was like oh they have some chops yeah um anyway again if you’re watching um I’m displaying some pictures that I personally took these are not taken from the books but they’re they’re kind of there to give you a sense of like what the diaramas look like because all of these have themes to them and they have um you know it’s not like you’re seeing a bunch of guys on bases they’re not on bases no no bases to yeah they’re usually pinned into the ground to look like you know they’re actually there like they’re telling a story there’s so many stories within stories within stories happening in the diaram like like wherever you zoom in there’s going to be a little vignette of Something Happening Here was a part of the greater battlefield but there like this special little moment here and there which is so cool yeah that’s the a beautiful thing about diaramas yeah and one of so I want to talk about a couple of my favorites that are represented in the book uh one of my favorites is a a nurgle infested castle that has like kind of and it’s it’s a fantasy themed one uh this was out long before um age of Sigmar this was back in the old world and it’s just a a fantasy themed castle that’s overgrown with lyen and and and you know mushrooms in places and then just Gunk and you have pretty much every the cro just dangling down and stuff in the sewers like oh I love diaramas and that’s the other thing with diaramas a lot of times these are multiple levels right and and so they’re showing multiple levels so um this this one in particular was one of my favorites it was a a nurgle castle with all these nurgle creatures coming out of this massive open Mau a castle it kind of almost looks like a little bit like a what’s a skeletors oh yeah yeah it does actually kind of in the sense that like it it doesn’t it’s not a big skull it’s a pretty realistic looking you know Castle but the the shot that you have of the scene specifically is reminding me of a Helms Deep with the like Orcs charging up to the gate that way it’s obviously the opposite because they’re unleashing actually it was G to it reminded me of when they’re leaving um the witch King’s Castle all the Orcs are leaving right very very similar vibe to it but all nurgle them so super cool one of my favorite diaramas um and there’s just a lot to it uh additionally um what I of course primarily focused on were 40K diaramas and there you can see you know different variations of of Imperial Guard diaramas lar you know and they’re always they’re typically always fighting something else yes when 30k came out they came out with a uh Siege of Cal diarama or excuse me U not Cal uh where’s uh this is Prosper Prospero Burns diarama that’s so cool and it’s all it’s so good and all of these things like the team that builds these things is incredible incredible and they spend so much time laying it out they’ve talked about it in Dragon mag or Dragon formerly Dragon white dwarf now not not formally Dragon um but uh you can see how they plan and prep for all these and it’s just incredible this uh particular one literally has Leman Russ on it you know charging across the bridge it’s it’s just a fantastic uh diarama that they’ve done um another one that they did that I very much wanted to see more of um was one called the fires of sxis and the reason it’s called fires of sxis was because that was going to be the next Forge World Book uh that was going to come out the next uh Imperial Armor book right and it never yeah came out it got canceled that was the to one it was to versus um adeptus mechanicus okay and uh it was going to be amazing yeah um this here’s a photo from it um and it had you know Titans and knights and all the the good you know uh admech stuff in it yeah it had all this great towel stuff in it stilt guys for days it was pretty stilt guys I was very excited about it I remember um uh Colin at the time was super excited that it was going to come out cuz he played admech at that time so we were very excited about this particular book coming out I don’t know how much of it was actually written or just in the planning stages um I had been talking to Allan before he passed about how he was working on it but Allan was also notorious for like not you know not pres presenting results not presenting results and then oh it’s three days out from being due done he’s written the whole thing you know so um I don’t know how much how far it ever got in the story but man I was very eager to hear uh what was going to happen in that um and one of my favorite pictures in this is literally this this uh Titan that has a towel vehicle just like in his hand yeah a towel cry a suit in his hand like crushing it freaking incredible so I mean these books if you can get them um really really great there’s a they run the gamut from you know old world to age of Sigmar to uh to um 40K stuff 30k stuff yeah they’re just incredible to look at um and and you can see the creativity of the artist that put this stuff together now mind you it’s probably pretty easy when you can just go hey we need more of these sprew and you just go take them and build these things or take a few things if if by the way any of those people are listening and you happen to have four extra arms for seraphim seraphim with hand flamers with hand flamers let me know um another great one they have is these these uh dark lar that are coming through a gate coming through their web by portal and they’ve actually cut the vehicle in half so that it’s like looks like it’s coming through this gate it’s is that actually like a lighting effect on the looks like a clear resin or something it’s a clear resin plastic effect that they use and so you get to see also like just the amount of cleverness and and what they went through to to build some of this stuff one of the most famous displays there is this review of um of the the Imperial Guard as they’re kind of rolling out and there’s just like you see so many tanks the epitom of parade orders right there yeah absolutely the other thing they do typically in these is they’ll provide a backdrop behind them to give them depth so in that parade ground one you can see that there is like this massive City yep behind I I believe this is supposed to be kadia actually but um there’s like this whole city behind it like that anymore no um but this also led me to I’ve been looking up and researching uh printing on poster board yeah like some some designs so as we take pictures of games we’re playing we can just toss those up behind the game I’ve looked into it a bit it’s it’s pricey but yeah not not cheap so but worth it yeah yeah especially when you see this kind stuff it really makes it worth it and then of course there’s a tremendous amount look the centerpiece display within Warhammer world is uh the ultramarines versus effectively you know corn wari and Chaos yeah uh you do have some Titans in there you have uh knights in there you have uh gray knights in there flame effect coming out of the uh Inferno cannon on the warhound is pretty sweet um and this is the centerpiece display at Warhammer world when you when you look at it you’re looking at it um from three different levels actually and staircase kind of goes up and around it so that you can look at all the different pieces and all the different height and it goes you know down Into the Depths where you see uh Bridges Crossing area there’s like a Chasm and you see Fighters like flying down the chasm fighting each other to to the very top of the tower where you have uh you know marneus calgar fighting uh a giant bloodthirster um and they actually have another book which I own and I have to locate it that details out like all of this battle oh wow okay like the whole battle I think they even have like some missions in it if I remember correctly but it talks about like the all the battle who they’re fighting what happens you know all this stuff but this is the this is the display that everybody walks into and goes oh my God yeah yeah this is super impressive um as soon as you walk out of the door there you’re faced with a um massive display of Eldar versus tyranids on this like lava planet where like the lava’s glowing and there’s just this massive swarm of tyranids versus lar you have giant lar Titans and biot Titans it’s it’s absolutely stunning so it’s funny because you leave this one thing where you’re like holy smokes this is impressive like this is so impressive you’re like and you’re you walk through these double doors and you think the fun has just begun you think well well that’s you know I’m I’m done and then you walk into this and you’re like oh oh there’s still more you know it it just keeps going so anyway um these two books if you can locate them yeah they’re worth their price certainly at face value I am sure that they still probably sell at or himmer world one of these at least probably probably both y um worth picking up if you get a chance obviously in-person experience is probably hard to replicate in book form like having been there obviously you are you’re kind of playing into the memories and like appreciating the details and things that they’re able to focus on in the book format but I’m guessing it Pals in comparison to actually being there and uh just experiencing taking it all in and experienc it in it does um I mean seeing it in person is really cool but the books do a good job with the photos and such of showing you um you know they they’ll like step back and show you like the larger um situation but then it’ll zoom in to show you very specific things that they want you to see um the photography of course they’re using they professional photographers there which don’t have the glass between them and the and the thing they get full yeah they get full access and you know everything is every diarama has a name um one of my favorites is is also magnar’s Crag which is uh Space Wolves versus uh tyranids I don’t remember which Fleet the red skin tyranids with the blue carrus Behemoth Behemoth I can’t remember um but one of my favorite parts of this is you know all these tyranids are like clambering over each other to get up this icy you know this whole ice terrain with this huge Fortress this huge 40K Fortress and the space wolves are fighting them on on this terrain and such but one of my favorite Parts is there’s like this Pinnacle of the Fortress like this top you know uh spire and on top that is a wing Hive Tyrant you know just kind of hanging out up there so it’s just it’s super cool um I would say no it doesn’t match going to Warhammer world but what it does is if you’ve gone to Warhammer world and you leave like you’re like oh yeah like it it very much kind of reinvigorates reinvigorates yeah absolutely so yep and makes sense that you could probably only buy the at Warhammer you can yeah so then the next piece I want to talk about is this is something that I don’t think a lot of people know about I could be mistaken but one of my favorite books in uh the Warhammer 30k range the Horus heresy series was no no fear yeah uh by Dan abet so um no no fear uh is really um focuses on the Battle of Cal for those who don’t know there’s going to be some spoilers here I’m about to give you so if you’re not interested if you haven’t gotten this far in the Horus heresy yet stop listening to me now skip forward to the next look at the time stamps in the audio uh because we we provide Josh can talk about his stuff um so no no fear was one of the I think one of the best for 30k books there it was yeah it good it good um it deals with the Betrayal of the ultramarines by the word bearers um it made to me so at this time when this book came out not many people were playing uh ultramarines and um it I had painted an ultramarines army and this made ultramarines like really cool yeah yeah really cool Dan just kind of takes a his Devin mud paintbrush and makes the ultramarines just suddenly super cool they have like this whole method of Performing War like they they track from the moment the war starts and they start a Time counter they have all these discussions about you know how they make plans but then how they execute on the plans they call them the theoretical and then the Practical the Practical and yeah and um you learn in this book you know why some of the ultramarines have red helmets and what that means means you know it it first it starts out as a mark of censure right uh a theal sergeant theal has a a um you know he’s in trouble beginning of the book yeah he’s in the beginning of the book he’s in trouble dun’s cap right for and he’s GNA and he’s going to be censured for daring to uh contemplate uh what Space Marine versus Space Marine battle would look like because um at the time like they didn’t realize istan had happened right and um he he Theo was like well we’re trained to fight the toughest things in the Galaxy what’s the toughest thing in the Galaxy we are how do we fight how do we fight ourselves right and that was like what you’re insane you don’t talk about this you’re in trouble and ultimately like towards the end of the book hey guess what yeah towards the end of the book one of the captains is like well I guess we should have listened to you you know and and so the red helmet that he’s forced to wear is a mark of centure comes kind of this Sergeant helmet you’re a Forward Thinking individual that you know yeah that is a sergeant um so uh very cool stuff the battle is just Grim like so grim and just brutal and like at one point like super heavy tanks you know the battle in orbit happens and super heavy tanks are falling out of orbit the void docks are just getting destroyed and crashing into the Super Heavies are CR raining down on the army belone crashing into the ground and you know it it’s it’s absolutely destruction on a massive scale it’s fantastic yeah one of the things that happens in this book though uh towards the towards the uh towards the end of it is um the the flagship of the ultramarines is engaged with um the flagship of the word bearers and and um and the flagship of the word Bears is trying to leave um core faren has been mortally wounded by uh Gillman himself like Gillman tears one of his hearts out oh and he thinks he’s dead that’s right he thinks he’s dead but he’s not like his chaos sorceries are like barely sustaining him and they basically take him and flee to the flagship of the word bearers they may even been on the flagship of the W bears at this point no they flee to the flagship of the W Bears he had almost killed Gillan at that point um and and and so Gilman says you know hey um I can’t remember who the uh commander of the um of the the the ultramarines um Flagship at that point is but he tells them do not let this Flagship Escape I want him dead yeah right yeah and uh so he’s like okay I have orders from the Primark himself I’m going to take out um I’m going to take out the word word Bear’s ship um and so it this whole section and it’s kind of reprinted at the beginning of this book this book is called uh the Horus heresy mra’s honor it is printed in large black format hard cover uh it went a on with the um Horus heresy black books that were coming out at the time one of the frustrating things about it was that the naming convention on the on the spine did not match the naming convention on the spines of of the one thing they were the most inconsistent about in their in their books it was very frustrating spy and graphic design layout um but uh let me just read this this one section because the one of the first pages of the book is a reprint of a couple paragraphs from no no fear and uh and and so it it starts I’m I’m just going to read this this one paragraph which starts it Mark 20 2717 that’s the timestamp the running Battle of the battle right uh 20 hours 27 minutes 17 seconds into the battle the word Bearer battle barge infus imperator turns in the debris Rich belt of cal cal near space ships Dying In Flames behind it it engages its drive and begins a long hard burn toward the out system reaches this is the ship that’s carrying corer right as it accelerates away raising yield to maximum the mra’s honor which is the flagship of of the ultramarines turns in Pursuit its main drives lighting with an equally Furious Vigor it is the beginning of one of the most infamous Naval duels in imperial history that’s the end you hear of it end of the book that that’s not the end of the book but that’s like that’s the last word you hear about what happens to these ships in no no fear and it’s kind of like well what happened well what happened if it’s so so Infamous um and so this book details out exactly what occurs now the cool thing about this book is it’s a comic yeah and it’s it’s written by Dan AB full-blown yeah graphic novel yep it’s written by Dan Abnet who has obviously tons of comic writing experience you can thank Guardians of the Galaxy you can thank Dan Abnet for writing that stuff right uh that’s all based on his run in Guardians of the Galaxy and the work the artwork is done by Neil Roberts yeah now if you if that name doesn’t ring a bell Neil Roberts has has done almost he’s done so many of the 30k Horus heresy covers like you can’t you can’t even count the number of paintings this guy has done for 30k it’s incredible and his stuff is very well known like he is a fantastic fantastic artist so the interior of the book is full of just full-on panels of just gorgeous artwork yeah full everything’s full color full panels yep cool story with the story telling you exactly what occurs and so I’m going to tell you what happens that that is one of the greatest naval battles so basically what happens is um the infidelis ship the the the um Flagship of the of the word Bears is fleeing uh the ultramarines flagship is in Pursuit and catching up and so um core faren at the time is being uh kind of worked on by like these chaos Sorcerers and stuff to try to keep him alive effectively heal him and keep him alive um Marius Gage who is the chapter Master of the 13th Legion of first chapter because remember these are Legions now not just chapters uh is is kind of he’s the one that’s been given the order by Gillman you know hey Go destroy this vessel um there is a very important individual in there Centurion from the first company named Aron marur and he’s like he’s got like this gold face plate and everything like he’s a super important guy he’ll come up later I’ll explain in a minute so anyway they they begin chasing the The Vessel um other word Bearer vessels three others move to engage and uh mcra onor just like obliterates two of them like it’s just heading straight towards them obliterates two of them the third one uh takes some damage they end up destroying that one too but they do take damage in the process of engaging with these other three ships yeah to the point where corfin is like starting to you know recuperate a bit and he says turn around and Destroy mra’s honor um it’s its Shields are down like it’s damaged yeah turn around stop fleeing go back and destroy that vessel I want it dead and of course you know all the chaos guys are like oh okay he says to do this isn’t crazy so it turns around and it and it rushes towards uh uh mcra onor they have this tremendous like broadside battle like in close range where they’re just like destroying each other and um the uh but MCCS honor wanted them to get close because it sends in boarding Torpedoes and all this stuff full of Terminators and all this stuff you know boarding boarding the ship they’re there to get it done I mean these are hundreds of Terminators like hundreds of Marines um they also have like these boarding ramps that like shoot across and like latch onto the other ship I didn’t realize that was even a thing so like you have these visuals of like these um these ships in close combat with these boarding ramps and uh they’re they’re uh like hundreds of guys rushing across the boarding ramps at each other yeah but they’re like on the surface of it I me it’s all pretty hokey you know in terms of real technology just like maglocks to a yeah a flexible plate and they just run across the top of it so um so anyway they’re in this huge battle um the the all the uh ultramarines you know tons of them come across and are are are engaging and then it turns out oh this has been a trap by the word bearers to bring them all over because now they’ve summoned in all these like warp entities to like deal with them and so you have um one of my one plates is like this massive demon gets like summoned what is that yeah and um and uh you know the ultramarines just demons question mark yeah you think um so the the the ultramarines are fighting on board this but at the same time uh once that occurs corfin is like pull away from from the The ultramarines Vessel destroy the bridges like just rip the bridges away so they rip clear of of the them and you know Again Begin kind of moving off in the opposite direction meanwhile like the ultr have sent the majority of their Force into yeah the word Bearer ship and now they’re getting slaughtered by all these demons and so um at one point they’re like you know uh hey how many of our owners still aboard the ship and the command is we have no singal from any of them it appears they’ve all been wiped out aboard the word Bears vessel so uh still Mar Gage is like we have to destroy this vessel you know continue to pursue it coren is like we’re going to flee into the warp and they’re too they can’t use like their jump drives to to get into the warp they’re too close or they’re not they haven’t done the proper calculations well cor Farin has one of those daggers that um like all person and everything that can rip a hole in reality just do a little slice and he cast this thing and he and he rips a hole in reality and the ship like this massive rip yeah yeah the ship goes into the warp directly and Mar Gage is like follow them into the warp and they’re like oh we you know we don’t even know how we’ll get out he goes look the the the Primark has given me an order to destroy that ship we’re going to destroy that ship so they follow them into the warp get those G Fields up they put up the G Fields they fall them into the warp um and the thing is once they’re in the warp like they have no like they haven’t done any calculation they have no clue of where they are they just know we we have to Main maintain visual on the word Bearer ship yeah if we lose he even says if we lose sight of that ship we’ll be lost forever we can’t lose sight of the ship so they’re the coren sees that they followed them the ship ends up uh you know pulling through like these strange like anomalies and all this stuff and they end up losing the ultramarines and so the ultramarines are now kind of like what do we do we’re lost in the warp and coren’s like now that we’ve broken with them turn around goes and destroy that vessel like so cuz they can navigate through the warp so they turn around they start just beating the hell out of the ultramarine vessel yep and um like they’re taking all this damage all these people are dying it’s it’s just brutal and this is the coolest part um so they’re like well we can’t see where they are we can try to like fire this spread of weapons everywhere to try to hit him and he goes well it sounds it’s like you’re you know you’re thinking like ultr go there’s nothing else we can do we might as well fire these weapons everywhere and hopefully we hit something when they get this radio call from uh the uh the centuri and the first company Captain I was telling about Arion and aboard the show and he’s aboard the word burs vessel and he’s like he’s like um you know can you hear me blah blah he goes and and he’s like fighting off like chaos Space Marines and everything and he’s like I don’t know how much longer I’m going to be be alive fixate on my signal and fire on the and fire on me and so that’s what they do they fire like every weapon at corin’s vessel and it just obliterates it he’s he’s coming what he thinks is like The Kill and they fire all these weapons of course they have like that whole like you know what this not possible right and then and and the captain like dies right then like before they even like as he’s firing like the Death Star blowing up and they’re about to hit the button and he uh and so he but he uses his blade to escape the ship and goes to some’s the worst planet with a bunch with a handful of chaos Marines and a few others but he just basically but their flagships obliterated yeah he eats out of there as the kids say these days and and the flagships destroyed that’s how abidan gets back to the battle barge every time you lose he’s got a dagger um yeah I mean it’s just the the story is really really cool the book is really great yeah the art is phenomen Al the story sounds fascinating it sounds really fun and and of course marus Gage is like well how how do we get out of the warp he goes it it may take us it may take us centuries to figure out how to get out of here you know and and that’s that you know they can’t use a navigator to just they can’t figure out where they even are right and and there’s these massive warp storms that are preventing them from seeing the astronomicon this is the whole point this is why the ultramarines don’t make it to Tera right in time there was a cunning plan yeah yeah so artwork is just fantastic the book is great and at the very end of the book um what they have is they have a bunch of the rough drawings and like the script next to the rough drawings kind of showing you like how they put it all together it is a fantastic book it is not for sale any longer as far as I know I don’t know if it’s ever come out in softback it’s yeah blackbook production quality too it’s got the uh the silver leafed pages on the gorgeous bookmarks and the and it was It was kind of one of those things that I ask and I was like boy I’m glad I bought this when I did I don’t know for a fact this that story was never told anywhere else but this is the only place I’ve ever seen it yeah I I have not read about that story yeah and it was just fantastic like super epic you know the Marines are just complete the ultra Marines are just complete awesome the villains are complete villains you know they’re as advertised doing what they’re supposed to do yeah yeah so good stuff uh if you can get your hands on it did that book make you want to uh play battlefleet Gothic at all a little bit yeah a little bit I almost loaded battlefleet Gothic the video game oh yeah again I think battlefleet gothics mechanics are dated really dated it’s it’s hard for me to get past that I have a lot of other things I want to play rather than that sure but um still fun but dated but it did again make me go yeah ultramarines are pretty cool you know these guys are pretty awesome so um and I think too the other thing like you want to paint some more gold trim no the other thing I would say is like a lot of times ultramarines were relegated to this kind of like meme status like people were like oh well they didn’t show up like they showed up at the very end of the heresy and you know they didn’t do anything and and yada yada and uh and when you see stuff like this you’re like yeah they were a little busy too you know they had a whole second Imperium they were building like they had a few problems they were working on and in a few you know things they were doing um I won’t go into spoilers into uh the siege of Terra but there they do have a small presence there too as well which is kind of cool that I was like when I read part of it I was like oh man like that’s cool so anyway um great book uh mra’s honor it’s it’s I think it’s one of the cool collector’s items that I bought that I’m like I’m glad I have this like I’m glad I have this book it’s a cool piece yeah and I don’t know if it’s available anywhere digitally or or if there’s was ever a soft cover version of it or I’m sure it’ll get reprinted at some point in some fashion sure yeah but um right now it’s it remains kind of a unique collector’s piece nice so so that’s the two things I wanted to kind of cover the Warhammer world diaramas and this uh mcra honor the horse heresy uh comic I should say graphic novel by Dan Abnet and Neil Roberts um with that we’re going to take a short break we will come right back and then Josh you have a couple Show and Tell continue to cover as well all right so we will be right back all right we’re back we’re continuing our discussion about Rader 40K materials and uh Josh what have you brought to show and tell so I’ve got the art of Warhammer 4000 um this is a compilation of a ton of art uh this book was published in 2006 so it’s a little bit on the older side of things now obviously we’re almost 20 years how much art yeah how much art has been Pres in the last 20 years this book was really cool so this is this is your book so I I borrowed this book to uh bring for show and tell so I could uh do some homework and come uh come show it off but um for me this was an absolute wild Nostalgia ride of like seeing all the art that like I just kind of grew up with and had uh just really brought 40K to life to me and this book more than anything there’s a couple quotes uh there’s an intro by John blanch which I had intended to read but I uh forgot the book at home but basically one of one of the cool things about 40K and the success of 40K is how much art there is for 40K specifically for the game for the books John was talking about in his intro part part of it and this is kind of just my synopsis of everything on top of that but this um so this is specifically an art book so again if you’re listening and not watching uh most of these things are going to like I’m going to be referring to specific kind of art pieces we’ll talk about the pieces we will absolutely so an interesting point was if if this was in 2006 so um yeah i’ just like to point out like when I first got into 40K I would read veraciously almost everything I could uh about 40K a couple things I didn’t read initially were gun ghost cuz it’s like I’m not interested in reading about army guys you know I was in the Army and I wanted to read about Space Marines and boy that was a mistake you know finally when I’d read all the Space Marine stuff that was out there Y and cuz it was doable see what these humans are up to but that was doable back then right yeah it was like black library was like oh you know here’s the soul Drinker Omnibus I’m like it’s not very good but it is space Mar so I’ll keep reading it I just didn’t care for soul drinkers too much um and then you know you oh here’s the Space Wolves Omnibus and here’s all these book and I’d read pretty much everything I could read yeah when you think about that and then you think about the intervening 20 years you just said it’s been 18 years since this book came out y the amount of fiction that’s written and there has to be covers for all that cover art card games codexes DW you name itous amount of artwork and I think so uh where I was kind of going with that is partially and then this is again based upon like some of the quotes and what John blanch was saying in there but like part of the success of 40K and how visual uh how visually successful it is and how easily you as a player are able to approach the game and the lore and like put the two things together like Miniatures and the lore are kind of abstracted from each other like two very different things like you’ve got the models and a lot of like new stuff is very like photography based cuz the model range has gotten there and terrain kits are awesome and things like that so there’s more and more photography these days but like back then like those model kits didn’t exist right so it was really like the art had to bring the world to life to for you as a player you as a reader you as a potential customer um but the proliferation of Art in 40K is uh to a point that it makes the game so approachable like if you’re talking 40K you can visualize something because you’ve seen something that has shown you what this looks like and there’s a huge variety of styles and cool thing about this book is the styles were so varied like obviously John John blanch uh when this was written he was the um creative director yeah um so he had a huge influence uh but he obviously wasn’t Commission every piece himself like he wasn’t doing all the art his job he was right yeah because there was so much of it he was actually commissioning quite a bit of the pieces and like putting artists and pieces together and um filling in all the slots there but just because there has been uh 40K is such a big kind of picture story Universe lore um there’s been such a proliferation of art to match that I think that’s a really interesting point and and it sometimes we were just talking about Rogue Trader the video game earlier like there were some visuals even in that third person isometric view that I saw that I was like oh yeah I didn’t realize the scale of this thing when I played Space Marine the video game there’s a point where you’re walking around this area where Titan is right and and you see like these massive doors and you’re like oh yeah of course those doors are massive right and you can read descriptions of this stuff but the artwork of the hobby really brings it home when you can visually like get those scales and design cues and how Baroque everything is like it’s obviously it’s described and like you can Envision that but when you just see it like th this book for me my like my summary of This Book is a picture is worth a thousand words put to proof right like every single one of these uh I just artworks images so evocative of what’s going on so so so what you have is some of your favorites here yeah yeah so this is uh the book is organized in such a way that it’s starts uh it goes kind of um I don’t know faction by faction okay so we’re starting with Space Marines and inside Space Marines I it actually took me back immediately to like mid to late 90s when box art was box art it wasn’t a picture of the mall it was all illustration um so here we’ve got a bunch of like bikes attack bikes speeder bikes things like these and these were all Illustrated and this was what you would get on oh it says this is a box cover from 1998 exactly yeah and every single piece in here is labeled by who painted it when it was painted it what it was painted for um which is pretty neat and it was definitely a really cool just kind of kind of trip down memory lane here yeah um the Styles have varied so much and they’ve they’ve been informed but they’re all so cohesive at the same time like John blanch style is so unique and different from some of the new like cleaner crisper modern stuff um but they all feel so 40K even though the visual presentation what’s interesting is too your next share not not these pictures but the book you’re going to share after this one has more modern yes absolutely takes on some of this stuff so you really do see and I think too like um miniature painters Styles have changed and established themselves you know techniques have changed where you say oh this these pictures may have looked much older back then one of the things they all like to do would be like Marines this is a good example Marines like holding off a Last Stand Ren’s world like the you know standing there holding off you know a bunch of stuff and that’s it and so it’s kind of like this mountain of Marines firing against everything around it that was kind of a common I think Trope almost back then yes yeah yeah the the battle pile was real um the battle pile I like that yeah as every and it’s funny like this is obviously a range conflict in this one this is actually the Epic 40,000 uh box art I believe they were if I’m recalling which is again super nostalgic for me just like this was I was you know 10 years old and this was this was my life and i’ I’ve seen this piece so many times uh but if you like looking at this piece in particular it’s uh Marine against Orcs And while it’s a it’s a ranged combat like everything is inches away from each other right like they’re firing bolters as but I think that’s that is that is the style of 40K like that’s a lot of um that’s very intentional as well as you know pictures where Titans are firing every weapon they have at one time but this for me just was really evocative of the scale of 40K where you do have Titans in the background you you got uh void spacecraft kind of in low orbit up here you’ve got your Space Marine battle Pile in the middle you’ve got Orcs surrounding them the Orcs surrounding them like that too also just helps kind of like it it naturally vignettes the Marines and forces your eye to engage like you kind of start from the outside and then it’s immediately going to kind of force you to look in towards the Middle where the the action is uh kind of being concentrated and the heroic stand of the Marines is happening here um this is almost the repeat of that but a different style so this is an this is Classic this is a second edition I believe Cod Angels uh not the codec I think this was actually the second edition box set oh you’re right you’re right you’re right and the interesting thing here is the style varies from what you see now as this is very cartoonish yes this is this is again the other thing I would say is the company is much younger at this point sure yep the amount of money spent on art is probably a lot less than what is spent now on Art um simply because the budget doesn’t exist for it until John blanch basically he was getting commissioned regularly enough to the point where he’s like okay like I can make this work uh and then he he pitched it like hey would you guys be interested in like just bringing me in full-time yeah and they were like yes they were on board with that but for a while like the only in-house artist was John blanch and now there’s a whole studio of artist everybody top yeah so the art has yeah exponentially expanded in just the quantity that is being produced and where it’s going can you imagine like you know having a deadline of like we need a picture of some ultramarines fighting lar okay you know and and by the way we need it by 3 weeks from now or whatever the deadline is like I mean something something quick and short and obviously how much gold trim do I have to paint you like yeah yeah which I mean they like a lot of these they’ll have a kind of a classic focal point and then everything gets a little bit like the detail bleeds out as you get further from from that kind of main focal point um but yeah just some still really cool again super classic super nostalgic for me what’s interesting too is that you probably see uh units in some of this early artwork that didn’t even exist at the time and in fact that was like the only rendition of something like somebody just thought oh that’ll look cool in this particular piece we’re looking at there’s a warhound Titan way in the background that looks very much like the um what was that company that was making Titans before armorcast AR it looks very much like an armorcast Titan I don’t know that armorcast Titans existed at this point they may have um this point that’s actually a good question I’m not sure they may have but my point is sometimes some of these things were created in this picture and somebody looked in the background and goes well what’s that like let’s make that thing those warhound uh Titans with the like Spike backs um where when epic and Space Marine I think second edition came out with Titans and uh epic 40,000 like those were the Titans the warhounds looked exactly like that based so maybe they were out at the that happen I uh that I know epic came out after second edition here so it was a bit later but yeah um almost all the art in this book is incredible there are a few exceptions of which I I only call that one because I think again this again being 2006 like this was an early adoption this is an image it’s blood angels it’s this huge battle pile uh and I believe it’s sanguinius and a captain here they almost are posed like they’re dueling but it doesn’t make sense why why they would be fighting but it’s uh basically rendered art and then they’ve photoshopped in actual heads yeah and it just doesn’t work for me so here’s I think here’s what they’re trying to do right for this piece and I agree with you it doesn’t work very well um what they’re attempting here though is to make the images look a little more realistic than right the cartoony previous images it’s definitely an evolution and so yeah I agree with you this doesn’t quite work early adoption of an evolution right which is showing its age here in the digital techniques that have been I wonder when this was first seen if people thought oh that’s really cool right um because now we look at it with such a different critical sure critical eye um yeah I mean this is historically I don’t think this kind of image where they photoshop somebody’s head on a guy unless is that Henry caval is um he would have been like 12 I know I don’t think that anybody looks back at this piece and goes wow that’s iconic 40K right yeah image but which is interesting because so many of the illustrations especially ones that are even older than this like for me are so iconic and they’re so 40K to me um yes without a doubt yeah and these uh so here we have a couple of uh these are actually some codex covers I think that’s Dark Angels cover on the far right here and this space on the far um but it’s interesting relooking at this and noticing things um that I hadn’t noticed like I’ve seen this art so many times well the other thing they would do is reuse that art a lot because it’s expensive and a company when it’s for example for the independent characters if we were like you know what we’d really like is a new logo designed by a professional logo how it cost how much I’m sorry well we’re going to use that logo on everything yeah um pay for it once use it every yeah and and so obviously and and what they would do a lot of times is not use the whole image but use portions of the image as lot of examp yeah they’ll use half of a horizontal image as a book cover a rule book cover something like that so it was and for me there’s actually a lot of instances where I had only seen the book covers and had not seen the full image so it was really cool to see the full page spread of the the complete work yeah you know what’s interesting they probably knew they were going to do that and so I’ll bet a lot of times when they would commission a piece I’m guessing yeah they would say we want a piece this size that depicts you know space wolves fighting Orcs And we want to have you know give me like at least like six or seven space wolves in their fighting you know hordes of Orcs blah blah blah and then they know like we can take this piece we take in such a way that we can vertically crop and get a cover out of this in addition to the full full horiz story here absolutely um for me it was really cool just kind of revisiting some of these pieces like the one on the left here uh the space WF fighting or space wallf fighting Orcs And noticing that his helmet’s been discarded on the ground and he’s got a bullet hole in his uh helmet so he’s discarded the helmet after getting shot in the head that’s what always happens then you look up at him and he’s got this kind of uh bleeding uh Mark where like the bullet penetrated but didn’t like kill him obviously didn’t go into his brain um but the indentation the impact of that like caused that and so like it’s probably been 15 years since I’ve seen this piece and just like looking at that and then seeing that like noticing that detail as you were going through the maybe I had noticed it before but it’s just been time and distance right like just immediately seeing that and be like oh that’s that’s really cool I think the other tells a cool story important thing about looking at historical photos that are represented in this book is you can see the seeds of where things are now yeah and this I’ve said this before but this really became evident to me when we did the show Force for the Eldar yeah now the alari yeah it just the lore there in particular was so so phenomenally done that it hasn’t really changed right like it it it’s na it on the first take what they came up with at the beginning is exactly what it is now and it’s a really realized race for 40K it’s not just slap dashed in there like it is really thought out yeah and so um I mean even back then they were talking about the paths that each lar would walk to decide what they wanted to do in life and yeah like I had never heard about that until I read kind of the the Eldar black Library series and I’m like oh and then to see it oh it’s been there forever right right like really brought home for me that this is well thought out yeah even and PE like people tend to like to say oh the tower just kind of slapped in here they are but a lot of thought was given to how to what that race is like makes different why and why they’re here yeah probably one of the most iconic pieces in this book that you have here is the death of sanguinius and the emperor faing off against hor on the uh on uh yeah the vengeful Spirit now the interesting thing as I look at this picture now having read oh freshly yes freshly read the siege of Tera and the final book of that is um is how you look at this and you’re like yes this is probably a um a artist depiction of the events that transpired as they were told from somebody who was not there and sure and uh uh very much like Renaissance paintings are like oh you know here’s the um the uh Last Supper it’s like well here’s how I envisioned the Last Supper here’s the uh audio history the oral history of an event now that’s being interpreted here you’ve slapped you know sanguinius is at the feet of Horus here yeah for this is for me it was actually evocative of like an actual remembrance right somebody has been told this story and now they have created a work of art from it or something like that yeah pretty neat and then uh the other thing was how much this still does embody like that super iconic diarama that uh oh yeah uh Mike McVey ended up doing painting which by the way is at Warhammer world yeah I’m sure I’m sure it is yeah um yeah it’s just uh some some really cool just iconic moments iconic art um the interesting thing as as we’ll see more um throughout the art is that the style for Imperial and Chaos Stu is so defined like John blanch would like really really lock that in but then when you get out to other races like tyrannids and ta and Eldar or something like that there’s definitely less of that kind of like overt John blanch influence which is and just going through this book and seeing it all concentrated and laid out and like the the history of it it spans you know a 15year history at this point and again this is only up to 2006 but um adeptus custodes sisters s silence you can see you can see the female adeptus custodes right there under that helmet that’s right and under that armor you don’t know absolutely doesn’t make a difference um one one cool thing for the book is there was a ton of heresy art commission for there was a Horus heresy collectible card game yes and I had never played this game um so some of this art I had never seen before but it’s so just like visually stunning iconic like really well done a ton of the art throughout the book is for that the funny thing is like I have a lot of those pictures as well and there’s a two volume set that I have over there by my black 30k books uh which is the art of horse heresy and a lot of those are captured here as well this is definitely you can see who drew this yes John blanches style yep which consists of a lot of Reds and Browns and yellows yep very kind of rough sketched more more illustrative less photo realistic for sure but uh so 40K so Imperium and it’s actually interesting this is uh jagon and rogal Dorne yeah so what’s interesting about that jaged khon is interesting like his depiction of him is very different from I think later depictions of him um but rogal Dorne is very very similar to current depictions of him that’s just fascinating as the yeah things have evolved and her and Jag tyon like I don’t think he got a lot of attention until much more recently so think Chris did a great series much more flushed out these days yeah yeah where Dorn’s kind of always been his nail yeah he’s just a uh some some classic art and then also just seeing the variety in there like the the one on the the right here is very very late 80s like guy looks like he’s on cocaine or something he’s just a Marine in the middle of a a pile of marine shoulder pads down to their elbows yeah right yeah giant shoulder P those shoulder pads are ridiculous but even like if you look at the way he’s there that’s like how models used to be posed it’s very like monopose model in art form which is interesting um some of the quotes that I got uh I’ll actually I’ll read a couple quotes here just kind of make sense um this is from let me let’s see uh my main aim is to do things and show things that they cannot do with Miniatures I try to breathe life into them and it’s in the faces that you can really put some character into each piece that was from Carl Pinsky he’s one of the artists uh what’s interesting is now these faces they could easily do in plastic oh absolutely in fact they do them better I would argue yes they they don’t look like the guy on the right yeah so I mean again like the technology moves forward the Styles move forward I’m you know it would have been interesting to bring uh somebody who isn’t artist in here or with an art degree like Jeremy Woods who could talk us through like some of the history of Art and how art styles change uh um techniques develop that weren’t thought of before and and so in this case I think you’re seeing a lot of guys who had maybe drawn comic books before um guys who were just good SK hey my cousin can draw that picture you know or paint that um he likes 40K you know yeah right uh and and and so people who were getting kind of their first I think probably their first steps into cutting their teeth yes yeah yeah um I for me this was a fascinating visit like I’ve I through my master’s degree in photography and my MFA like have definitely studied some art history so this for me was just kind of a fascinating study in the evolution and progression of it’s incomplete obviously because it stops in 2006 and so much has happened since then but for me it was just a really fascinating was recently just watching a whole thing on Todd mcfarling okay yeah uh and how he got into drawing comics and he had drawn he he actually wanted to be a professional baseball player Oh interesting okay and and he was like oh well you know uh I don’t remember at what point he he got injured I think and he was like well I want to I don’t remember exactly what it was but something triggered him to oh well I I I could maybe draw Comics like that guy or whatever and so he just started drawing just learning how to draw himself and and they showed like a lot of his old pictures and like the evolution of his stuff and like this first picture he drawn of Spawn he’s the woman he’s married to was his girlfriend back then and so like she was like the publisher okay yeah they were working together to try to get him into the comic industry but it was interesting to see his Evolution and how he entered the scene of comics which is I’m sure at that time and at the time of this book in these pictures that you’re showing there weren’t probably a lot of people who were leaping into that scene and so like there was probably a lot of opportunity now if you were to try to get into this it’s probably a lot more difficult you were probably showing your stuff on a lot more saturation on uh what’s the website that has all the art artwork on it the uh internet has made stuff yeah I mean the world is so much now so if you’re like digital artist for example competition is the world yeah so this is a the piece you’re showing now is very famous cuz it’s the cover of The Inquisitor rule book yeah so this is two this is three different pieces here but The Inquisitor rule book is front center there and so iconic yeah I love that picture um yep cover of The Inquisitor rule book um super iconic uh and then of course flanked on either side here by very classic John blanch U inquisitorial sketches in in his style that which is interesting to see like how distinct John blanch is and how much he kind of paved the way and like set the tone and direction for it but how that does translate into something that’s taken to the next level more more realistic more rendered more you know lighting and things like that the interesting thing about blanche’s work though in general if you look at John blanche’s work is that it’s not photo realistic it’s not no absolutely it’s not comic book either but man it really shows you like this is this is the direction we’re thinking um you know here you have the the radical Inquisitor versus a um uh what’s the theologically uh aligned um I’m drawing a blanket this one but but the the the The non-radical Inquisitor you know um and and you can see in the design like look this guy has clearly fall in a little further you know leans into some of some of the things and this guy doesn’t but it’s interesting that John blanch is able to convey those kinds of of things through effectively sketches that are just highly detailed sketches yes s simpler they’re less complex but they have so much character and personality and they yeah they’re telling so much story they’re telling more with less youever seen like the story boards of stuff like Star Wars like like I have the art books for all the it’s it’s basically saying like here’s here’s what I’m envisioning in my head right you can get that from these and you get a a feel from them which is really interesting and the those yeah feelings have just dictated so much of what 40K has has become sure some uh more Super iconic uh works here all all John blanch here uh We’ve of course got the emperor on The Golden Throne we’ve got the sister of battle in the middle I don’t remember her name she actually has a model now in honor of this work of art and then AR all blanch work all blanch work here uh and all just so Peak 40K in in its kind of feeling yeah um then of course uh going into this is uh 2004 is I believe um I don’t have the the art the U mark on there but this was the Epic armagedon cover was just the right side of this image so the whole left side of this again I had not seen which is obviously the less detailed half of it as we have another warlord Titan it looks like it’s actually in the process of dying uh kind of blurred in the background there but yeah very much speaking to what we were saying earlier about like let’s commission a piece and let the uh one half of that be able to be a vertical uh book crop yeah uh battle Fleet battle Fleet Gothic the cover of the box was the cover uh and immediately evokes memories of playing battle fi Gothic and again this is a John blanch piece here and I think I think the important thing to convey here in these kinds of things is the the scale of this yes right it’s one thing to say oh yeah the ships are 2 kilometers long and you know thousands of people live aboard them and they have Cathedrals on top and you’re like okay you know but until you see somebody’s larger vision of it yeah for me it’s hard to conceive of and so that is kind of part about what I was saying initially is that all the art here that has fueled our Vision Plus and obviously in combination with uh books that we’ve read black Library Works um 40K is kind of so approachable from a lore standpoint visually because there’s so many things to support and back that up and help inform you of what this is supposed to look like you have this Vision you have this description here’s like then in your head you can kind of marry the two together like it’s just a very clear yeah yeah I agree with you uh which which is pretty cool and I think it was part of what makes it one of the more successful inter intellectual properties is the fact that they have put so much of that visual component behind it yeah yeah you can see also like even in this which takes place in space you can see the influences of like 2000 ad and like Judge Dread and that kind of stuff absolutely yeah um one of the cool things in the book is they do call out some of like they call out what it is and what it isn’t 40K again this is kind of early in in John blanches intro it’s like it’s not Star Wars it’s not like June it’s uh the one of the best quotes that I uh didn’t didn’t write down because I was going to read part of it but basically 40K is it’s celebrating the demise of excess uhhuh uh which I think summed it up pretty well like everything was great everything was at now it’s all falling apart all falling apart we can’t maintain it we’re at War everywhere every front um not only art but there was also just a bunch of really cool iconography that is so 40K and speaks to that so in this book they also are um showing some of the icons of course we’ve got uh marks of chaos the Elder runes all the Imperial even just the Imperial numberings like having that that style um has just it’s so iconically no pun intended uh 40 because it’s like if any decal sheet you look at for any of these factions like you are going to see these so yeah you know what’s interesting here is like they haven’t changed much they have not changed yeah no so I would say nurgle’s logo has changed a bit uh but it still contains the three dots which is more of the three skulls which is kind of below thees symbol there on the on the upper right yeah um yeah it’s interesting that so they the book goes through yeah Space Marines and it goes into some iconography and then it was yeah our guess agents of the Imperium and then it’ll jump into the other races here as we’ll we’ll see uh so now now we’re in chaos yeah chaos land here and this is of course a very famous picture too of of kind of the Council of Horus as he’s kind of preparing you have you know you have a uh Armen there you have the red Angel right who’s this Burning Guy this is a very famous photo or a piece of artwork as well and something that and this is the thing I love about 40K artwork when you’re looking at it like the more you look at it the more you see in it yeah um this is a piece that has tons of stuff this this supposed to be fulgrim in over here on the right side who’s horrific looking yeah he is not the uh the beautiful snake man he is in his new model no um yeah just sick really really cool iconic pieces of art that just speaks so much to to 40K again more chaos uh this image here in the middle is the second edition chaos codex Marine uh cover of abon abidon and mostly corn Berserkers a couple Terminators too um that one just immediately was like so emotionally nostalgic for me because that was my first codex I ever picked up with second edition chaos chaos Marines was my first Army in 40K so that cover like so many fun memories of reading that book and yeah the interesting thing is when this stuff was coming out like I I saw this in the stores when it was coming out and I would compare to the artwork that was being produced for Dungeons and Dragons time which was so far in advance of this they had the budget for it at that time you had Jeff easle you had Keith Parkinson my personal favorite doing that kind of artwork that you were like this looks cartoonish compared to what Keith Parkinson is putting out and so I’m like how serious could I take it this again this was before I got involved in Warhammer I was aware of it I just had not the money nor the interest to get involved at that point and Warhammer then was still so much more Niche compared to very much so dungeon and dragons like absolutely but D&J jav had it all D&J jav did such a great shop it’s a that’s a sad downfall of a shop yeah uh then we have uh yeah just some classic portrayals of chaos Gods here obviously the um great unclean one great unclean one and a uh that piece has been that’s actually not a l of change I think it’s just a uh a demon that’s interesting CU you can see elements of a of change in there very evocative of but not not quite a of change um but this uh great un clean one like that that piece has been used many times I think it was on the fourth edition uh I love the the Monstrous mouth and face on the end of the tongue the tongue has it own own face and a tongue coming out of the tongue I didn’t notice that yeah yeah that’s great that’s great stuff yep um then we have just kind of the variety again this is more just speaking toward Wards what I was talking about with the uh different kinds of uh art and styles this is blanch on the left blanch on the left not blanch on the other two again this is chaos and Chaos demons here represented say getting like this kind of showed the evolution one screenshot for me 2005 yeah this is the horos heresy collectible card game of a bloodthirster but you see a Space Marine it looks like a blood Angel firing up at him this is this is something you could see today yes and you would be like oh yeah that’s a cool that’s a cool cover um although today you would see even more detail but like you see the elements now beginning to show themselves in like the the smoother um paint applications the the getting more detail light is actually interacting with more light is part that that’s what I’m describing light it’s more photo realistic for me being a photographer light is actually interacting with how it would with a physical thing especially of that scale yeah because in this picture blood thirster you can see light playing across the top of it but its right side is is bathed in Shadow yeah it’s so interesting that I didn’t realize it until you pointed it out that gives it a 3D look exctly yeah it gives it depth it gives it perspective it gives it scale like showing how this massive thing and then even like the the Marine’s armor uh how that the highlights are playing across that from the light on there and then compare compared to uh the shoulder pads are a little more reasonable going all the way down to his forearms the massive uh yeah so that for me that was just yeah kind of kind of the evolution all of these are great pictures in and they’re all amazing and they’re all 40K but um but such different visions of it yeah different interpretations of how how it’s come um then there was a section in here that was just kind of the filler art and these are all the little like sketches of like cherubs and necrons uh cherubs are spores cherubs have got to be the creepiest thing in Warhammer 40K and here you see like a bunch of them realized at least like eight or nine of them and it’s just like these are really disturbing who slaps a baby into oh God so gross well uh yep take take the baby give him some augmented eyes some wings and the funny thing is I remember deliver ammo in a battlefield or whatever it is now I remember Dungeons and Dragons taking a bunch of crap for having devils and demons and Dungeons and Dragons back in the 80s early 90s and then here you had you had Warhammer and Warhammer 40K like leaning into it they’re like yeah look at this like that’s amazing I love it it was all so dumb and a lot of these things were used for as just like some space filler inside of codexes or um little tow little little bits inside yep absolutely um inside of a white dwarf magazine you’d get like just a little again space filler but they’re all little things that not only are they like filling space but they’re just continuing to re reinforce that 40K feeling the vibe um and bringing it there so then we move into lar and you can see it’s a pretty dramatic art shift from the very Imperial Centric and both Imperium and chaos and obviously the um Eldar even these being um some of the the older ones here with the Avatar that we have this was a a codex cover as well um actually that skull in that dark Reaper Phoenix Lord is pretty gross look oh that’s his arm I see yeah that’s a his shoulder pet that’s m r that is really cool um which it’s funny he doesn’t even call this is still this is still 2005 it’s still the dark Millennium collectible card game stuff you’re seeing here but it’s so interesting that a lot of this artwork was generated for a card game and and you know I’ve never played it I I don’t think I’ve ever seen a card from the dark mum colle seen phal card but I’ve seen so much in this art and some of the art that I haven’t seen I was like oh this was really cool it was just a really fun treat interesting to uh to see here vehicles have not changed for lar and and these both these pieces we have uh the Falcons sorry the Falcon on the right side here and then we have the Viper jet bikes on the left side I these works of art have been used so many times but they’re still so iconic and shows the speed shows the the swiftness the design of the vehicle the interesting thing too about the elar vehicles I mean just even in plastic is like they haven’t updated really changed and and they’re timeless they look great I think I don’t know if they have new molds for them they remastered yeah they uh why why haven’t redesigned Perfection they look great yeah they still still good yeah yeah yeah yeah uh and then we jump into Orcs here after and Orcs have similar to Imperium because Orcs are one of the older factions going back to Rogue Trader as space Orcs um have seen a a similar evolution of uh they’ve obviously they’re moving away this in this day and age from the kind of the cartoony humorous Orcs that they definitely used to be um I have to tell you reading about the Orcs in um this is a cool picture that you’re showing right now but this another epic 40,000 as as cartoonish as the vehicles on the left look like this orc on the right though coming towards the camera it’s getting there it’s pretty it’s getting there and I think one of the two of The Best depictions Of Orcs for me were one um Steve Stephen Parker’s uh Ren’s world yeah he did a great job of making the Orcs pretty frightening in that and then uh Siege of curl Noam which was a forge world uh book um the Orcs wen’t while I had some disagreements about some things in the story of the book the um the Orcs were depicted as pretty brutal yeah yeah and while I think that there’s a place for them to be humorous too ly does a good job of like making his Orcs very humorous yeah absolutely like sometime I go back and forth on this like sometimes I like them humorous and sometimes I like them just scary they’re there to fight they’re there to scrap and like that’s a pretty scary concept they yeah like they’re big they’re mean they’re green and they’re they’re there to mess stuff up so they act pretty terrifying if you actually think about what an encounter with Orcs would be but again I think this orc picture here which you said was part of the titanicus this was epic 40,000 epic 40,000 um you see again like the pile of Warriors here yeah but this time it’s orc Warriors this is orc Centric right yeah so interesting that with Garg in the background yeah that same layout though was used a lot the pile of yeah yeah whatever pile of pile of Eldar pile of you the old battle pile battle pile that’s what you called it that’s a really good call it’s definitely it was definitely a trope uh especially late ’90s early 2000s less and less so today definitely we’re getting um yeah more uh then it goes briefly into icons not iconography but icons um so these are like the fully kind of realized rendered full color kind of 3des effect yeah of all the the chapter symbols the lar craft Worlds the uh various chaos factions I don’t know the Imperial initiative logo is I’ve never seen that before I was actually curious about that one myself cuz I I mean it’s clearly the aqu the Aquilla but then there’s like a like stone circle behind it yeah I wonder what that is the mechanicus initiative was classic um it’s interesting because on a lot of these you see this less and less today like I feel like these were way more prevalent in previous editions of codexes and white dwarf battle reports things like that these icons are I I feel like kind of relics of the past and I you don’t see them that often not like this not like this not in this this kind of um yeah more and it’s for me that in of itself was interesting and that now like where you’re going to see symbols of this nature are going to be more in like decal format which are actually much more simplified just because that’s how they’re going to translate to decals but that has also dictated on how how you seen you do see some of this stuff like this elaborate in like the Forge World decal sheet True full coloral and and the adep titanicus decals were really impressive but this is kind of of that level yep yep and yeah again it was just kind of interesting because like this is so I I have such strong memories of seeing all these in the codex’s and white dwarf and things like that and uh from art Direction standpoint they’ve kind of moved away from this but it was uh well as the luras evolved too I mean like here we see depicted as Space Marines yeah icon and it’s a skull with wings and it’s like okay but like I’ve never seen that used there’s a couple old marks of space marine armor which had the skull and wings but the skull definitely wasn’t that large you see that skull in some of the chaos space Mar right yeah yeah like yeah and the Terminator sometimes you see them on Terminator armor and obviously the names of everything was still Space Marines not adeptus Sardis and elar instead of elari or right okay aarani and yeah uh then you get tow which again very different to a late edition so this is kind of right when tow we’re actually getting released so this is point you’re making right the the picture on the right was a cover of fire warrior a video game picture on the left is a t codex um but the interesting thing about to you just raised a point I never really thought about to are a late edition I think I mean they’re still 20 years old now but I I think brought in to kind of uh feed off the um absolutely Gundam was kind of really what they were going after yeah that that St anime aesthetic yeah and to get interest from Japanese Market in it um as well but the interesting thing is they don’t have John blanch really tow stuff like we saw a little bit earlier like just some little drawings some kind of filler sketch Arts yeah but there’s no Evolution so much of the towel artwork not as great in evolution because it comes so late a fire warrior still looks like a fire warrior yes uh the towel faces look like the tow faces the everything’s proportional even the art itself is way more photo realistic like the light play in that fire over I love the fire War such such a great even even the Codex cover like it’s it’s so iconic um and and just classically towel but yeah not even the brand new crout just got released right and we’ve got crout in this original artwork that look pretty much the same as what the have not evolved much here yeah uh which I think they they nailed the aesthetic pretty pretty early on for what they were doing with Tao uh but too is also quite a departure from I do remember this codex cover though this was the Codex cover when I started playing fourth fourth it it which was their their first cover for cast toow late third are right at Fourth start of fourth but I wonder if that feeds into the whole like they’ve been slapped into you know 40K whereas they haven’t well they they have but not without great care it’s just they were not part of the original concept correct yeah they weren’t in the original Vision but it doesn’t mean they’re not well F out yeah there you go uhid this for me was kind of the embodiment of the evolution in tyranids in one screenshot again uh this on the left side here we have a hive Tyrant this is very much like second edition this I think is the second edition tyranid codex cover that a hive Tyrant or a warrior that’s a hive Tyrant yeah oh he is with the whip yeah um and then obviously very cartoony kind of even monop POS even in the the sketch art here and then you get over to the right in the back too yep and the old screamer killer which was the only cars there was and how bulbous all the the G slip yeah you know what’s interesting is tyranids were clearly brought in as a result of alien yeah Starship troop as well but alien was the first visual you had like Starship Troopers you didn’t really have a visual of right you had the book just the descriptor yeah yeah and they’re called bugs and blah blah blah alien though it’s interesting when you look at alien and you look at the artwork that was developed by Guyer for the alien and then the costumes that came out of it none of that looks cartoony no no no whereas here like this guy the original tyranids do not look particularly scary if I’m being honest the one on the right however the evolution of that like and they they go kind of round and bulbous and while they have like the chitus Army armor uh compared to what they are on the the right side here where it’s all very like sharp and visceral and gory and yeah this you can see the influence from Alien a bit more yeah absolutely um the yeah the kitan on the on the shoulders and everything looks really more armored yeah like this this is I believe not fourth Ed codex I can’t remember what this is a cover from but this is um I think that was fifth they look pretty scary in this particular picture right yeah yeah I mean I would want to meet any of them but this one I’d kind of laugh a little bit before it ate me and then this one I’d scream as it ate me what what really stands out to me is if you look at the uh the termagant kind of right between the uh hi tyrant’s legs on the left here versus look at like the the guns and Gant over to the right and like just like they these look like the old like cartoon army ants from the 80s where these are no these are aliens like they will no I think the evolution of the tanid even in the model line has been such a tremendous yes change that they and now even now like the latest stuff they come out with like oh man these look even worse and I think that that’s actually a great point that the art here mimics the model line cuz the original tyed line absolutely looked like what the art looks like here on the left where they are way more true mean you have second edition to fourth edition right yeah so yeah a lot A lot has changed and the the model line itself has changed a lot too very much so in line with the art which is neat yeah uh and then we have the uh the old classic necrons here bringing it home uh we have just the kind of endless Legions coming out of monolith uh nightbringer of course um it’s interesting here we actually have the um I’m I can’t believe I’m blanking on their names because they don’t exist anymore the um oh it’s like the one unit that that went away and I I don’t know which unit that is uh they were the kind of null the psychic null guys oh I was notw can’t believe I uh I’m blinking on but here’s here’s what I’ll say about the necrons too coming out like um from the get-go I think their art was on point yes yes like there was never a time where I’m like that’s a really cartoony looking necron like they always looked yeah okay those I see what you’re going for they’ve been around since second edition they did they were a later Edition so they weren’t Rogue Traer but they’ve been around a good while when they were the alien the chaos robots or whatever before they were even necros right yes but like from the moment that I saw their CICS I was like especially the black and white inks of of the artwork around them I thought was always really really Stellar yes yeah yeah just nightbringer with that lightning coming off and you’ve got cantic spiders buzzing around the petorian guard whatever they’re called I can’t and nekron took a real shift too uh in fifth edition where they went from kind of soulless swarms of robots to um yeah just soless space Raiders to way more to having dynasties and and character Egyptian VI I actually and in some ways I remember when that change shifted I thought oh I don’t I don’t know if I like this and then now I’m now I appreciate it way more like than than I did before yeah I like that they can have characters and that kind of thing it’s really cool um so that that’s the end of this book but one thing I’ll say is this book was a really cool just visitation of again super nostalgic for me obviously because I’ve been in the hobby for so long but um reading just some of the the quotes from artists or model designers or uh management at the time like there’s some really cool quotes integrated in there that really speaks to how um things were approached at the time or what how like once you realize that the scope of 40K you realize as an artist you can kind of do whatever it’s a really thick book too book there is a lot of cool you just kind of scratched the surface here yeah yeah again this one is very very visually oriented and uh if you check out check out this section of the video if nothing else or if you can find a copy of the book it is is incredible I think mine was given to Me by Ed Brown who used to be the guy that ran the forgeable customer care back when they were separate and um a good friend of John’s in mine and uh uh I think he get he passed this book on to me yeah it it was a pretty incredible artifact per so yeah that immediately called out to me it’s like oh I would love to to flip and just yeah the I didn’t expect the Nostalgia ride to be that strong but especially the old like epic 40,000 stuff and the second edition chaos codex like man it did it took me right back I tell all all the good feels um so next up I went into this one will be much much briefer here uh is visions of War this is the art of Space Marine battles so I picked this up at the black Library Weekender the first one I went to back in like 2017 or or something like that 2017 18 uh Space Marine battles were a series of books that highlighted notable Space Marine battles that took place yeah uh renor being one of those by Steve Parker Battle of the Fang you know by Chris rate like some of the interesting things about these books and and they kind of like people kind of poo pooed on these books a bit um you know in terms of of they were like ah they’re not really relevant but I really enjoyed reading a bunch of them and and you got to read some of the uh authors who um are now staple authors within within the this is the first Chris rate novel I read it’s the first uh uh guy Haley novel I read it’s for Steve Parker novel I read kind of the testing ground and and some of them were really great great stories yeah um but this book came out and it’s in a it’s a white covered book so keeping it clean virtually impossible but it it it’s in a um slip case hard covered slip case hard covered slip case hard cover book this was a limited edition print that came out in 2014 and they only printed a thousand of these got it earlier than I thought I did yeah yeah um yeah and and it really detailed the cover art of the space rain battles novels let me just make a point here before you get started is when you compare this work now 2014 was when this is released to the artwork we just saw I think you see a massive Evolution huge shift in in the this the talent of the painters and the the skills being utilized and it it’s just a very clever use of of of larger um uh you know the the the book the artwork would cover both sides of the of the of the cover for the novels and so they’re all set at a certain size but I really appreciate the art yeah absolutely the skill done in each of these paintings some of them still like so jumping into this there are some really cool scenes depicted uh and each each work of art kind of has a blurb about the story like the battle that was taking place um and then it has the the cover art to go along with it of course you open up the cover first and you see uh it’s just kind of a repeated motif of various chapters this is not the full right 10,000 chapters um but just a bunch of different Marines just a ton of different Marines which was still cool and it’s so iconic uh just to see the Marine stacked up like that and all the different chapter iconography and things like that um so jump jumping into the book uh you get some really cool pieces uh and I would say the art on this is definitely an evolution as you were just talking about this is uh at least uh eight years later yeah uh compared to the previous book we covered here um so everything has evolved stylistically uh and everything throughout the course of this book is very similar in its art Direction and depiction style so the illustration the kind of photo realism but it’s a it’s a combination of illustration and photorealism it’s not really going extremely one or another it’s a kind of a really nice marriage of the two this is a picture of Kos secaras actually kosaras fighting some necrons fighting necrons yeah and I’m trying to remember the name of this book and I I have it over there on my shelf I can’t read it from here but yeah this book um I’ll tell you right now not my favorite of the series great art though it was cool art the thing I appreciated actually was how dark the blue was on the ultramarines here yeah very cool one of the interesting quotes in that uh his power sword looks really good and the just the the glow effect on that and even the Bolter muzzles and the necron glowing effects coming out of all their Goss weaponry and uh one one quote from uh I think it was from the previous book is that like the the goal of a cover is to get you to pick up the book yeah it works and it works and like you get it I mean there’s obviously that don’t don’t judge a book by its cover but pick up a book if it looks cool it immediately engages you and you it makes you want to find out and once you want to learn more you want to go on that adventure with the book and that’s what the the 100% I mean there’s a reason that that saying exists never judge a book by his covers because you know covers can be great and the book be terrible could be terrible this is a cover that I thought was great the book was not not one of the strong points of the space ring battles novels yeah art great art um yep so next up just going through here we’ve got uh White scars um again we have uh a little quote kind of synopsis from from the story of the book um for me I hadn’t read most of these stories so the the the blurbs were less of an interest tie in for me I was really more approaching it from the the art style of things um which is fantastic like this is a White Scar Army full like full kind of deployment with drop pods bik we’ve gone to from the battle pile yes to the field of space and this this kind this became prevalent in the Horus heresy series as well especially the first initial books where they were trying to show Legions of guys fighting so now we’ve gone from Battle piles to fields of of soldiers yeah yeah Legions not chapters that’s right right oh this is a chapter yeah they’re both all right next up one of my favorites yes so why Lord of change here the ren rendering art on this one is absolutely incredible like you’ve got the magic the psychic glow double-headed uh I believe this is fate Weaver this is fate Weaver fate Weaver themselves uh in all their Glory Full wingspan just kind of chaos happening uh in abstract or more actual realized detail uh you want to talk about the story of this one it’s not particularly great either unfortunately incredible art it has it has its moments I I almost think John French wrote this um but I can’t recall specifically it has a bit of trickery to it as you would expect uh I would say the end has a cool twist but the payoff like the the payoff is not necessarily worth the journey in this particular book but God this art cover just blew me away and absolutely incredible yeah yeah so again uh check check these out whether you’re doing a feel like this story is actually called fate Weaver if I remember correctly make fitting yep with a fate we were very prominent on theover there um then we got there was actually a handful of stories and I hadn’t I hadn’t read any of these ones but of uh White scars and Tow apparently they’ve had a lot of conflicts those two this is fire of fires something fires um yeah but this is I think a really fantastic image where you have um it’s actually uh uh yeah to and and White Scar or ravengard here actually as well as white stars okay right and so um God I cannot remember the name of this book either but um it really I think the towel look really cool I think the Marines are looking really cool here you’re this is definitely like the next level you can see actually they have the sun blazing down through you know foliage there it’s it’s a you actually got a little lens flare kind of happening but the cool thing for this was actually the scale here like look how big the crisis battle suit is compared there’s two of them actually there’s one back to back but then also so you’ve got like three scales of of uh dudes right here in the main main focus of the image with crisis suits towering over the Marines but then the Marines are quite a bit larger than the to Fire War they should be it’s over there so uh for me that was just kind of a cool depiction not only of the action like I do love the two crisis suits back to back and fighting Co the white scars that encroaching from from the left of the image here um but then yeah just just the scale of uh the different units that you see on the tabletop and the they are representative of those scales in the miniature form MH i’ say crisis suits probably aren’t quite the large maybe though they should be yeah uh then we got just kind of a a classic uh Showdown here with a librarian facing off of a mega armored War Boss or I think that’s a white scars librarian if I remember correct White Scar y look at his arm and his belt loop there belt and again you also have some Raven guard and I’m not sure what the Marine on the the right is over here kind of looks like salamander might be a salamander oh yeah it’s probably second chapter salamander with the two there um yeah so it’s uh just kind of a depiction I know what this one is though but it’s cool looking yeah they again not having read many of the uh the Space Marine battle the orc War boss in the middle of this looks really cool yeah it’s it’s such a such a cool thing and just the uh again the evolution of the art we got now flame effects coming out of the heavy flamer the salamander was holding we’ve got kind of that OSL styled psychic glow coming out of the librarian staff and um the uh psychic Hood built into the back of his armor and shell casings flying everywhere and jump pack Jets and things like that it’s just a really cool rendition I would also point out there are Eldar in the background there are yeah in the very back it’s like a uh which is interesting it’s kind of like everything’s been thrown into this one yeah we got we got a lot going on here okay I don’t know what this is but cool yeah I should have uh made better notes of the battles themselves but okay here we go yeah I love this image Battle of the Fang yeah um Chris rate wrote this novel uh it it I absolutely fell in love with with uh Space Wolves after this novel and uh right here you literally have bjor fjor the fellhanded the fell-handed in his uh uh dread dreadn armor they wake him up specifically for this battle um because the uh thousand sons have come to uh exact their Revenge exact their Revenge what’s the home planet of theace fenus they’ve come to fenis uh this is like the year like 36,000 or something 34 or 36,000 at this point so it’s not even 40K but man what a great novel this is it is Chris rate really shows his ability to uh write action scenes and um and this is one of my favorites of the Space Marine battle books but here you have the Space Wolves looking very very ominous you know they say there’s no wolves in finis but here you have like a giant wolf from except for the ones that there are except for the ones that there are but uh no no no thunderwolf C riding him but oh that’s right yeah but just a great uh story and and this like I still am fascinated by Space Wolves yeah yeah I still like them as as a force the the books that I’ve actually Revisited the most out of uh pre pre 40K I won’t say horse heres exclusive but obviously um thousand suns and burning of Prospero read those many times which makes you really enjoy both sides both space uh you read the first one you’re like man these guys are jerks and you read the other one you’re like oh those other guys are jerks they’re all jerks uh but yeah both thousand suns and Space Wolves has uh had a longtime kind of resonance resonance with me one of the interesting things about this picture as well is thousand suns are not really depicted in it’s all space WS but at the feet of Bjorn you can see like a shattered uh thousand suns helmet and another one that looks like maybe a shoulder pad at the very bottom of the of the thing got a head he’s just plucked off he has a head in his claw in his claw yeah which is I love beorn I think he’s a cool character and I I love too this the image like the color pality of the image it’s so muted uh and it’s also almost going white out like we’re having a like snow storm fenis which is a death world not a great place to be um uh it just it brings it to life so much and Bjorn is uh just absolutely menacing and such and because of because of the pale whites and Grays the muzzle flashes stand out and his CLW of his power claw the lightning and the blue glow just so menacing and it draws your eye right to it the fact that he’s ripping somebody’s head off with it too is like yeah like right on great he’s there to get it done yeah this is the first space ring battle book I read and it’s still holds a special place in my heart this one is definitely due for on me my part but yeah it’s a it’s a good one and cool art uh and then I think this is the last one I picked out here uh which again is a ultramarine versus nekron fight here I think it’s the same novel actually same novel as the Kos secaras we started with here bookins if you will but interestingly the focus here as opposed to the ultramarines in the previous one where the the main pallet of the picture was blue now the main pack palette is green yes as you have a dread knot that’s kind of gone down and collapsing you have so many nekron you know got three monoliths immediately four monoliths pictured here more more pending in the background there with maybe a portable of vile just starting to Glow kind of in the yeah right center uh this one I would say is the uh the pessimistic outcome of the how this encounter is going to go where the the first one that we started with here was much more optimistic of uh ultramarine and kind of that Imperial propaganda this is things are not looking great guys yeah yeah yeah the space ring novels the space ring battle books like they’re Hit or Miss like some are better than others obviously but I think all of them were worth a read um if you’re into Bolter porn kind of stuff like they’re a lot of fun um the other one I think guy Haley did had to deal with um it it dealt with the mechanicum and or the mechanicus and it dealt with um oh what is that chapter they’re like blue and white they’re like half blue half white uh quartered actually and uh Nova Marines okay and uh they like find this derelict ship and they’re like going to get it and the mechanicum is like hold on we’re going to and spoiler alert but at the end it turns out there’s like an artificial intelligence within the thing which is outlawed in the Imperium and in the end it like takes off into the Galaxy like it zips away before they’re able to destroy this thing and you’re like you’re like oh man that’s cool well that’s a problem it was a clever it was a really clever story and I I thought guy Haley is is this kind of writer where he came from a um media background where he was writing for newspapers he was a reporter and uh so he had deadlines that he had to write to and so he can write to deadlines like nobody else very detail oriented the problem with that comes when he’s not writing something that he’s really really jazzed about and like he’s been given like an assignment like Hey we’re launching the new blah blah box set we need a supporting thing like he’s the guy they’ll go to because they know he can wrap it out real quick problem is I think it shows it shows in when he’s like super jazzed about something and when he’s not yeah when the passion Serv one of his assignment one of his first books he wrote was called Bane blade and it’s phenomenal like just so much fun and um yeah I like guy and he’s also just the nicest of dudes but um but uh uh you can tell when he’s writing for different different things but man he can he can you need it by that date done done we’ll get it there so well this is a great book it’s it’s a really great book it’s hard to come by yeah limited edition again and but you’ve seen most of the art in this you’ve seen it and you can see it onl on covers it’s it’s available online this this was a cool thing again not having read most of these the space Mar battle books I’ve only read a handful of those um it was really cool just to see that and there’s obviously a ton more that we didn’t talk about here uh and there’s a whole index in there if you are looking for a specific battle or specific artist like it has this index that’ll take you there and kind of tell you more about the story but having just kind of that the the quick blurb about the Battle and then seeing it and then this again uh similar to what I was saying about the last book like a picture is worth a thousand words here like there’s so much to extrapolate about the engagement and what’s happening and how things are look like the the again the first image of Ultram man verse nekron looking more optimistic and Imperial propaganda we got this and now they are on their back foot like dreadn is definitely dead this one looks like he’s about to go down the Marines are outnumbered outgunned and surrounded um yeah I think the other interesting thing about those Space Marine battle books was if I remember correctly in the center of each one there were some color pallets as well that showed you like okay you know here’s some of the iconography here’s this here’s a map of the world so you can see what they’re talking about it it’s I like liked them I liked them and I think where they missed out on those books was they should have included a mission at the back of each of them or a set of missions that you could have play in that Edition yeah I actually made that suggestion to him at one point that’s a good idea nobody ever followed up on that so they’re lost what do I know all right well with that let’s uh take a short break we’ll come right back we’ll close out the show all right so let’s close out the show I think Josh like the previous one of these show int tells like um you know there’s so much of this collectible stuff out there from limited edition versions of black library books to that kind of thing I’ve I’ve actually backed off of buying a lot of it I used to buy a whole bunch of it like everything I could get my hands on um but then I just realized a lot of this stuff is sitting around not really doing me any good and so um some of these things like the books you talked about today I go and review once a year or so and I and I really do like oh yeah look at this this is really cool or I never get tired of looking at art books so no no it’s it’s hard hard to so um you know uh it’s funny the last episode I think I covered the um the Crusade I can’t remember the name of the Crusade off top of my head uh The Crusade book that I had saat worlds this about world’s Crusade and then as we were helping move sky from his old store to the new store uh last weekend he has one in shrink WP I’m like wow I’m like sky this is like a collector’s item thing and he’s like oh yeah that’s that’s my that’s my like personal stash I’m like you keep it in shrink raft if you want but this is a great book and it turns out I actually have the original book too which is a Splat book meaning it’s like a soft cover book it doesn’t quite go into that level of detail not as beautiful but I have the original one as well so that was also given to Me by Ed Ed Brown so nice um but I love sharing this stuff and uh again you know if you’ve listened to this I’d say go back and especially listen to watch uh Josh’s um yeah both those book being art books like definitely LS itself to yeah to check out what we’re talking about but um we tried to give some context around it and and hopefully hopefully we did an okay job with that uh so next episode our plan is do we still want to stick with the plan for what the episode is do you remember orlocks yeah yeah and so we got to get we got to get uh uh Dan Dan us the badcast was questioning if we would actually follow through to bring him on board so he’s the guy we want it is yeah so um so yeah that’ll be our first test of having Dan’s big head on right on the screen um but I think that’ll be a great time I think uh we we’ll kick down uh those notes over to Dan so he can start adding to them and and we’ll go from there but um yeah it’ll be deep dive into the necromunda orlock gang house orlock so right on um well you know we have a patreon you’re aware of that by now we have a Facebook group all this stuff can be found on theindependent characters.com if you’re looking for it there’s links to all that stuff uh and more there um yeah patreon gets you some good discounts and some other bonus material and that guy Bon bonus content and uh yeah so okay you got anything else you want to add or close it out I think we’re I think we’re good here all right well this is Carl this is Josh and we’re coming to you from the astronomicon where I’m not reading this off the thing where oh is that where I insert my quote yep oh right right where Collectibles always collect dust and where art has given us a vision of the Grim dark future oh that was much better than mine okay well we’ll we’ll see you next time [Music] this episode of The Independent characters is protected by the Creative Commons license if you have further questions as to its use you can find information on the front page at theindependent characters.com [Music] [Music]
7 Comments
We are aware of a few issues in this video(Carl’s choppy camera, the new screen being harder to see clearly, and us being cut in half for the wide shot). We have plans in place to improve these going forward, so thanks for baring with us as we try new solutions!
I've enjoyed the youtube video version, it's great for having on in the background while I paint. Thanks once again for the podcast!
Somehow Kor Phaeron survived lol
Man that Ambot was sick!
Loved the show, the review of the books with the 2nd edition art and such brought back some memories of when I started playing 40K. Also, loved the mention of Niel Rivera since this summer I found out his is married to my cousins husbands sister. Great job guys. My only comment would be than when your showing a picture make it full screen for the viewer as it’s not very easy to see the picture with the current setup.
Hey guys. If I had iTunes I'd leave a review there. Instead I've given you 5 stars on Spotify!
Australian fan here.
I've been in the sidelines of the hobby, watching from afar since having a baby a year ago. Found your podcast which kept me engaged in the hobby in the meantime, and you guys have encouraged me to get back in touch with my gaming group and start up again. Love your work, love watching all the episodes on YouTube, and loved hearing about Carl becoming an Aussie for 3 weeks! 👏
Great episode! 🙂 I guess there's a wide variety of aesthetics in the Warhammer universe, both 40k and fantasy that really speaks to me as an old player. The old 2nd ed art, and especially codex covers, not to mention armies, really is what the hobby represents for me personally. As someone whose first computer games were so limited, but whose covers usually were amazing, I think whatever the "realism" in old art is lacking, is filled up by the imaginary mind, so that there's actually an interaction with the art and player in a different way than for example the new ultra-realistic art does. I do love the H.H. Black book covers too though, but those old slightly goofy, and garish colours just hit that nostalgia button on me, that is at least 50% of why I'm still in the hobby 😅