Should This ‘Dangerous’ Tech Be Banned? + Cheating Pros Caught Out – The Wild Ones Podcast Ep.38

This week we’re joined by ultra-endurance cyclist Chris Hall as we chat about the latest controversy surrounding hookless wheels and the calls for them to be banned from the pro peloton. We also discuss a bizarre story of a pro team’s “attempted fraud” (the UCI’s words, not ours). Plus we talk to Chris about his journey from a corporate day job to becoming an adventure cyclist.

Here’s the full breakdown:
00:00 A special guest…
02:10 Should this ‘dangerous’ tech be banned?
07:28 What’s the deal with foam tyre inserts?
13:05 Cheating pros caught in bizarre race plot
20:17 Rate My Ride is coming back
20:53 ‘How I quit my job & became an adventure cyclist’ (Big Question)
26:36 How Chris actually makes money
34:44 THIS is why cycling is so great
37:02 ‘Riding 107km every day for 107 days changed my life’
38:37 ‘Tough love doesn’t work’
40:00 Riding 7 Everests in 7 days & embracing ‘failure’
45:23 The problem with cycling social media
49:35 Battling pneumonia and breaking both wrists
53:02 Overrated/Underrated: Stretching warm-ups and cool-downs
54:25 Overrated/Underrated: Carbon everything
57:41 Overrated/Underrated: oversized jockey wheels
59:21 Aluminium is not all the same
01:00:42 Are electric cars better? Climate scientist weighs in
01:01:33 ‘I bought a tubeless ready bike – have I been scammed?’

If you’d like us to send in a question, story, some good news, things you’d like us to discuss or anything else, email us at wildonespodcast@cademedia.co.uk

Thanks and see you next time.

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welcome back to another episode of The Wild Ones podcast to show where we chat about bike stuff I’m Jimmy and this week I’m joined by producer Emily and the wonderful the Beautiful the Magnificent ultra distance cyclist Chris Hall and we haven’t told anyone about this so this is this is actually going to be a surprise to people it’s a surprise to me as well if you’ve been following this channel for a while you might have heard of him before but for those that are new here Chris is probably best known for documenting his bike Adventures on Instagram and YouTube under the name Chris Hall rides as well as being a lovely guy Chris is also a wealth of cycling knowledge and experience he’s bik packed across multiple countries he came top 10 in the British national 24-hour time trial championships he’s gained a reputation for doing extreme charity cycling challenges like riding 107 km every day for 107 days I’m tired just trying to say these words his efforts have so far raised almost half a million pounds for organizations including Men’s Health charity movember half a million pounds that is absolutely wild Chris is also a fantastic mental health Advocate who uses his own experiences with depression to create a safe space for people to be more open about their feelings and seek help there is absolutely no question that Chris is an incredibly strong Rider but his openness to sharing his vulnerabilities is probably his most unique and endearing quality we’re going to chat more about Chris’s Journey a bit later but for now welcome to the podcast Chris thank you that was probably one of the most exciting ly over the toop intros I think I’ve ever heard you give to anyone it was a bit like this is your life you know Michael Parkinson yeah we got a little red book I need to get a red book don’t I yeah just write on it Chris’s book yeah and always remember that Emily is a great writer yeah and I’m and I’m becoming a better reader well I look at this we have this for people that can’t see it we have this great list of text in front of the US and I’m very dyslexic so I just look at this and I just glaze over it basically I scroll up and down on it so I look like I know what I’m talking about well fortunately for you in this scenario you are a guest so actually you don’t even need to look at the document and I just need to make sure that we talk about the right things okay you’re the boss and with that in mind we usually kick off with some news so first could hookless rims soon be banned from Pro Racing well there’s people who would definitely like them to be so the discussion kicked off after a crash involving Thomas de gent at the UAE tour last week it appeared that his front tire may have blown off the Rim causing him to go down now the professional Riders Association CPA is calling for hookless rims to be banned from the P Pelon saying that they can take down other Riders and cause Mass crashes so what actually is hookless well historically Wheels have been manufactured with a small hook shape inside the rim designed to interlock with the bead of the tire and secure it in place hookless Wheels do not have this meaning you can’t run them at high pressures we’ talked about the day dangers of hookless rims on this channel before and those concerns have been echoed by CPA president and former pro Adam Hansen who told website Val tires should not come off a rim the maximum PSI these hookless tires can take is 73 and if you hit something it goes above 73 PSI on impact that’s why tires are coming off he even claims that Riders have had their tires pop off after merely leaving bikes out in the sun but he says manufacturers like hookless rims because they’re lighter and it’s easier to produce them so that’s why they’re pushing for this H interesting I remember I think we talked about this in an earlier episode of the podcast as well where Francis was talking about the discrepancy between the recommended uh PSIs that were ported on the tires versus the wheels wheels I also remember I found out as part of that conversation that I had hookless rims oh yeah and that I had been exceeding the PSI that is allowed in them hookless is great for off-road that would be my stance on it I don’t think it’s necessary for road so off-road you’re always going to be running lower tire pressures whether that’s gravel or mountain biking therefore you’re you’re not going to hit that 73 PSI limit I guess but for Road I think there’s still a lot of people that maybe aren’t fully understanding that you do not need to ride as high a tire pressures anyway if you’re running a tub setup But ultimately it has come down to manufacturing cost right like it’s it’s significantly cheaper to build a hookless rim you’re not having to basically reinforce the sidewall to then create that hook into it which adds weight adds costs that’s why manufacturers are doing It ultimately insignificant weight in the gr scheme grand scheme of things mind Road cyclist are weight weenies right so of course they’re going to care about that and if if a brand can turn around and go this wheel is 20 grams lighter blah blah blah blah blah blah that’s the marketing spill for that brand and that’s a sell point and they’re going to do it it’s worrying that someone would Market it as being 20 grams lighter EXA I mean you would it’s not unheard of right it’s not unheard of I I guess if I guess the the the one of the issu well not issues but one of the challenges here is tubeless versus tubed because if you’re running tubeless I don’t know anyone that would run any tubeless setup anywhere near 73 PSI Road or not and therefore it’s a non-issue well it’s less of an issue whereas as soon as you put a tube in then perhaps you are going around those kind of pressures I’d also say that I think in the pro pelaton and pro cycling there may be some of the teams probably aren’t as switched on or as aware as like the advances in technology with tie Brands and what I mean by that is the ability if you’re using a tubless setup that you can run a lower pressure better rolling resistance it’s no slower um I think a lot of the maybe not so biger teams you don’t have the sport science behind the team so maybe a team like lot of Destiny which Thomas races for maybe they haven’t quite fully invested in understanding what the tire limits are in terms of PSI and still have a bit of an old school mentality which what I mean by that is when you have I’m talking like 40 odd years ago where it was like a you know the tire is the right pressure because you’d flick it and it would Echo and make this Echo that you could hear for about 20 minutes but like I think some of the team maybe haven’t quite got that education in place right for this kind of newer system now tubless setups have been around for a long time right like in mountain biking and off-road it’s been around for a very long time and admittedly it’s quite new into Road cycling but when I started really Road cycling in 2016 that was for me that was the way that I automatically went was tubeless CU I saw I thought it was quite good so it has been around for coming up for 10 years in Road cycling I just think that maybe some the education there at the very top level maybe isn’t quite finalized right now and that is also a team that doesn’t have huge amount of uh like kit sponsors um they’re using Shimano group sets they’re using zip Wheels voria tires like it’s a weird mix of component trees to be run together so maybe there’s something in terms of that hasn’t just been shared properly with the mechanics But ultimately in my opinion with hookless rims keep it for off-road really did you have you seen the pict yeah so I think what’s also interesting about it is they are running foam inserts which I imagine a lot of people don’t even really know that they’re a product because it’s definitely something I’m seeing coming through at the minute so I’ve been to uh two trade shows two UK trade shows in the last week last week was cike which is a large proportion of the industry and then last weekend I was at Ice Bike which is Madison the biggest distribut in the country show um and at both shows I’m seeing foam inserts showing up and I know Nick bike mechanic Nick is using foam inserts inserts in off-road stuff MH um which kind of makes sense you’ve got a bit of Rim protection but interestingly I can’t remember what brand it is and I had a um I don’t think debate is the right word I had uh I enjoyed uh the amusement of it at cike there’s a foam insert designed for road tires yeah that is been AO optimized Arrow course it has come on and they’re talking about how the air inside the tire circulates when the wheel’s spinning and it’s optimized to make it more arrow and I was like like there I don’t even have this conversation with me like even if it’s technically true and it is technically faster there is not a chance that it’s anything more than not point no no no no no no no no no no no one of a what first thing I’m going to say is marketing the second thing I’m going to say is if they’re saying it’s an arrow it helps Arrow optimize it in whatever way yeah now bear in mind rolling resistance is going to Trump arrow in that particular stance on a tire rolling resistance is more important so you want a lower rolling resistance it’s not going to be about the arrow aspect the arrow side of it is going to be how the tire interacts with the rim so this Arrow insert has got to work for hundreds of different Wheels if it’s going to actually be beneficial what I’d love to see is the white paper saying how many Wheel sets they’ve tested it with how many tires they’ve tested it with what I would say to that is don’t waste your time trying to read it because there’s no it’s not there’s there’s not a scenario where it makes sense I’ve already said I’m dyslexic I’m not going to read it I just want to see it I want to see it see the pro eff yeah yeah I want to know there proof but the thing is that even if they have the proof it’s just still going to be so insignificant that it’s just it’s just not it’s just not worth it I do I do have an interest in foam inserts though cuz the the ones that were at uh ice bike so one of the brands I guess it’s the Victoria ones it might even be the ones that Thomas the G was using they they were the that color and I think the road ones are actually designed not to protect well it’s the mountain bike ones are always about Rim protection because they run at mad low pressures the road ones they were saying that they’re actually for um like limping home yes exactly you get a puncture and you can still get home on it and then you deal with it when you get there which to be honest for tubless is the sort of thing I hav an interesting because I don’t want to have to take my tower off and put a tube in because it’s messy it’s disgusting I just want to get home and deal with it in the warmth kind of thing are you putting sealant in there as well yeah yes you have sealant in there as well right I think the other aspect of it as you say the limping home thing and it’s if you do have a blowout on a tubless setup it’s quite often quite it can be quite an explosive blow up yeah and it’s I guess there’s an element of security to it and safety but then on the contrary what we’re seeing with Thomas again in this accident like luckily I think he was the only Rider that came down um but it could have been quite bad and he still finished the stage still finished the race like he was fine but it could have been incredibly serious riding in a pelaton and one of the things about that UAE tour that’s quite well documented it’s on a lot of straight wide roads so as a pro Rider it’s actually incredibly it’s quite boring as a race to do until like you’ve got the the last climbs in it like the Jabo HED climb or I think the finishes there’s a couple of stages where they refer to them as hockey stick stages oo CU it’s super super flat and then kicks up at the end which is like the last stage of the whole tour but the laps in concentration happens a lot in that race so there are actually quite a lot of crashes even though they’re on really straight roads so you know I maybe the setup that they that team has done has just they haven’t quite refined it it could even be that Thomas the as a rider has gone I want to run 90 PSI because that’s what I’ve always done he’s a bit older you know I think he’s 34 35 something like that so he’s a bit older in the pelaton and he might just be like this is what I’ve done I’ve always done it I’m riding night PSI so we are yet to find out what is going to happen with hookless rims and it is I feel like it’s going to be sort of thing that we find there’s going to be new stories coming out about this over the next couple of years and we’re going to find out if the industry is going to adapt to it or reject it and that’s kind of where it’s kind of like the sort of pressfit bearing uh pressfit bottom bracket t47 threaded bottom bracket space where it’s kind of all trying to work out is everyone going to move to it or is no one going to move to it what’s going to happen I feel like that’s kind of where we’re at with hookas at the minute uh and you know it was the same when disc brakes came through are they safe aren’t they safe and now they’re just the standard so you remember when they were saying that it could like chop your head off yeah with the rotors in like what five six years ago now for some weird cycling news a pro cycling team has been caught by the UTI dressing their mechanic up as a rider so that they could sign on at a race that is what a what a headline for that the incident involved American women’s Continental team sisa cycling they turned up at one day race in Belgium with four riders only to to be told that they couldn’t participate unless five Riders were there so the team’s Sports Direct ctor told the the mechanic to put on some team kit and a face mask and sign on as the team’s fifth Rider the UCI found out and they were put in front of a disciplinary committee the sports director has been fined and suspended from cycling until the end of 2025 the mechanic was fined and suspended until September and the team who said it was a one-time mistake has been suspended from the next race my first thoughts are I’m I bet like that’s Savage on the mechanic so the mechanic’s being suspended until September and was just like do this you know they’ve probably just been told to do it and you go well you know I know it’s not right but I want to keep my job she should have just ridden she should have just gone off on the start line I guess she doesn’t have a do she have I’m guessing you need a UCI license mechanics are often the hardest working member of a a team right they’re up early in the morning getting the bikes ready they’re up late at night preparing all the bikes and cleaning them as well and then being told that I make your boy make your girl I’m not sure get get in some kit start racing or sign on now my frustration with this story is that very often in men’s World Tour races you will see teams that don’t have enough Riders so they will start the race say say the Riders seven riders for the that particular stage race you’ll see them start with six Riders and they’re allowed to start they might they maybe get a fine maybe I don’t understand why it’s an issue because they are at a disadvantage vage by having less Riders exactly and it just doesn’t make sense like presumably this team has has gone all the way to Belgium to do this race so they they you know like it’s a lot of money so they they probably wanted to get the racing time and the experience and make sure that the riders that were there actually got some value out of it and the team didn’t just lose money for having a rider down either they didn’t know the news or they did and something happened which meant one of the Riders could ride or whatever but what does it matter like let them race yeah I mean if a Rider’s got an illness you’re not going to force that Rider to start right I I remember um someone telling me a story about a cyclocross race where a junior practically lapped the entire field and wasn’t allowed to stand on the podium because there wasn’t anyone the the the there wasn’t anyone else in that person’s age category even though that person had beaten older people in other categories and they weren’t allowed to even stand on the podium for a picture because it’s against the rules what is that in the UK yeah it’s Ben tulet I bet it was you used to be like Junior Psy cross world champion it’s a it was it was a girl it was really it was a it was I think a 16-year-old lass amazing that wasn’t allowed to stand on the podium and you just think like well let’s just putting people off like how great would she have felt as like you know like I’m doing amazing and you you have this picture to look back at do you know what they should have done built a human Podium they should have just got on their knees and let us stand on top you get a picture taken yes but people that live in these spaces of elitist cycling and British cycling rules they go well it’s the rules mhm a lot of people just go like well that’s the rules I will guarantee referring back to this story what probably has happened is this American women’s Continental team has come over to Europe to race a series of Belgium kses yeah so cesses is 100% yeah you know townside crits is probably the best way of wording it um so they probably bought a small team of riders across they probably got a like a lovely Airbnb where they’re all staying together and or horrible one or a horrible one I’m hoping they’ve got a lovely Airbnb yeah me too and you know one Rider’s obviously got a bit of a flu or something’s happened and then just straight up being told you can’t start like as a team if you’ve got a very tight schedule of Maybe One race or two races a weekend KS races can be in the week as well you miss one and that’s so much experience for Riders especially coming from America to come and ride in Europe because especially Belgian kermes races are seen as like the races to kind of like understand what you’re doing and understand how to handle a bike position yourself and all that kind of stuff it’s very I think it’s actually quite insulting to the team really to not be allowed to start and have and then being put in this very awkward situation and then being fined and suspended on various points I I would imagine they probably think the rule they probably think that that rule is is stupid which is why they’re like well what’s it matter let’s just let’s just get ourselves in the race we’ll have a good time probably thinking well we’re not here to win it or be competitive so it doesn’t matter if we kind of bend the rules a little bit but it’s more valuable for you four Riders to get some good proper racing experience and time that’s why we’re here so we’ll prioritize that and then yeah then the rules kicked in I believe they did not take part in the race in the end really yeah I think I think there was I think someone cottoned on to what they were doing and they were questioned by whoever was in control at the time and maybe got found out at that point which is why it ended up going to a disciplinary thing so they didn’t get away with this is the kind of thing where I would I hope people kick off about it so that they change the rules because I I I cannot think of one scenario where it’s less safe with one less Rider you know like it isn’t less SA safe it isn’t like they’re they’re at a disadvantage and no one else is disadvantaged as a result of them having less Riders they don’t need even numbers because that’s not how racing works it’s just well there’d be more even with four Riders a question I have on this as well is like you get um Riders if it’s a kermes race for example you get riders that are not riding for a team yeah they’re independent Riders why couldn’t they’ve just been said said like we’re four independent Riders obviously they’re in the same kit and stuff but like there’s so many this is do you know what I mean if it’s a certain level of UCI racing you can still get independent Riders can you though yeah I think you can we’d have to find out more details on what the race is I’m not sure because I’ve talked to James jobber who’s the the workshop manager at or the the manager at backyard Bike Shop who races for a Cony team as well and one of the perks of being in a Cony team or certain Cony teams is that you can get into these races and he wouldn’t be able to otherwise I’d be it’d be interesting to know what level race it was because if it was a race where independent Riders could race then they it’s been really harsh I’m going to bet it’s not you’re probably right yeah it’s a sad story though we have an update on roast my ride you might remember ages ago at this when we very started this podcast we asked you to submit photos of your bikes and we were going to rate them then we realized after a lot of very strongly worded emails that this was a terrible idea for an audio format so we finally got around to filming some dedicated Rate My Ride videos for this channel they will be released soon so get yourself over to the YouTube channel bit of it subscribe and I’ve I’ve actually seen the first one we made and I was even though I’m in it I was I was lulling hard I was Ling now on to our big question and this one is for you Chris so I hope hope you are ready to go I pressed the button and I don’t know what I press it’s not the ejector seat thankfully yeah there it’s the hot seat so we want to know what is it really like quitting your job to come to become a full-time cyclist so in 2018 you quit your full-time job as a designer to become an ultra cyclist and content creator and since then you’ve built an Engaged online audience of people who love following your adventures I am one of them I’m bias of course because I knew you before you were doing all that stuff as well um so we ultimately want to know how have you how did you get to the point you’re at now what’s what’s what’s the journey been just like you know a summary of how you’ve gone from being I’ve got a job in a essentially corporate environment to sitting here on a day of the week talking to me about riding bikes I mean it has definitely been a weird Journey like I so I I used to cycle a lot as a kid I used to do a lot of like BMXing and mountain biking and then I got very obsessed with video games which I think a lot of kids of my generation did because that was when like PlayStation came I’ve started playing computer games again as well mate I’m thinking about getting an a console again which one I want to get the Nintendo switch oh I got one of those I just got one so yes you you used to play L computer games and and then I I went to University I studied architecture I we’ve already we off air have discussed whether I’d rather be called a designer or an architect and I’ve always preferred the term designer because it’s more inclusive of design it doesn’t do just limit you to one thing architecture is buildings designer covers everything cuz I have done everything in that career of working as a designer and I basically bought a when I was studying I bought a road bike that was two sizes too big for me it was red I hate red and I was using it as a way to commute from where I was living in Greenwich to where I was going to University and then I was working in a bar in shage and then I was working for Apple at the same time as well so that that’s effectively how I was paying for University and and I used to play rugby I used to play at quite a high level uh I played at like a I say high level it’s county level which is not a bad level but it’s pretty good and I had quite a bad knee injury which part of the rehabilitation for that injury was cycling effectively I dislocated my knee the wrong way and then after left University I sort of stopped riding a bit like cuz I ended up working for an architectural firm that was a minute walk from where I lived so it was like why am I going to ride for 1 minute when I can just walk there and it was quite nice so I stopped riding a bit and with the job I was doing in architecture I was traveling quite a lot um and I you know really struggled with my own weight my mental health like just proper burnout in that industry and the last architecture and design firm I worked in I basically sort of went into the office one day and was like this is not a sustainable and healthy lifestyle for me as a human being and that was around the time that I think we actually all kind of met as well I was still working in architecture and design a bit but that was kind of the time we all sort of met and well not a bit when I met you that that was what you did you recreationally rode a bike and you then went off to the office and did design work did days of work and then rode home yeah usually via my house at the other end of London quite of get more miles yeah well for me it was always about especially back then and still now it’s about what I really enjoy is the conversations that you can have while cycling and I think this relates heavily to mental health is that with cycling you are riding very often next to someone so you’re at an equal with someone quite often if you’re sitting opposite each other like we all kind of are here it can be conceived as quite confrontational and some people can find it quite intimidating I’m not intimidated by either of you just putting that out there but it can be perceived in that way with strangers and with cycling because you’re riding next to someone is a much more neutral ground for discussion I think there’s a a lot of the reasons why people open up and talk more um I’m digressing so I mean for me I guess the journey was it wasn’t a straight cut it was very much a phased thing almost and it wasn’t intentional either it was it was the path that naturally kind of evolved in front of me I I you know I was working in architecture I was cycling while working in architecture there was quite a few people that I worked with and cycled with as well and progressively my first like I guess Big Challenge was riding around uh Richmond Park for 24 hours and then subsequently the 107 km every day for 107 days now that 107 challenge I was doing that while working still while still working in the industry but is very clear that cycling was a big part of my life at that point and the company I work with the company I worked for were incredibly supportive of it they’d let me like bring the bike in the office and keep it safe but for me ultimately it became really black and white one day it was like do I want to be doing a a desk job an office job that I fundamentally don’t enjoy in an industry which is not what I perceived it was going to be when I was studying it was very different or at that point you know as in my mid mid to early 20s I guess probably mid 20s I was kind of thinking like that I don’t understand how this should be my life so how did you go from having a very comfortable solid career in design architecture whatever you want to call it yeah to CU most people would go like oh well he must be rich he must have big pots of money that he was just like well he can afford to not work how did you what was the step you know you put your notice in on a job did you have another job lined up what was so the basically I I designed two products um one of them became an art installation that I sold and one of them I sold the patent to Phillips they were I won’t go into details of what they were but I designed these two things and sold them both and that I did them in collaboration with another designer so I sort sold my half of that that business that we created together uh to Phillips and that was a way that allowed me to have some financial support initially uh which helped me to you know be able to live and function as a human being but for me it wasn’t it was it was quite black and white in terms of architecture I went into the office one day and I said to my director that I worked with I was like I am quitting and he was like why are you quitting and I was like I basically said if I don’t quit I don’t know genuinely if I’m going to be here in a year’s time that was really black and white to him and he was a I think I think he was quite overwhelmed by what I’d said and you know I was talking in terms of being here as a human being alive and everything like that not just as in being working in this company and he turned around to me and we’ had a bit of a we didn’t have a great relationship but he turned around to me and said I’m not letting you quit and I was like and that instantly I got my heckles up a bit and I was like what the what hell do you mean you’re not letting me quick and he was like I’m going to make you redundant so you can have a payout for three months so you and then try and understand what you want to do with yourself and then subsequently I had this very when I did that 24 hours in Richmond Park I got chatting to this guy called George and at that point when I quit architecture there was a a bit of a sort of a transition period where I didn’t really know what I was going to do and then George had kind of been like let’s you know I want to create Jam which I’m sure many people have heard of who are listening to this and I ended up cre creting Jam cycling with him and eventually Francis was part of that as well and jam for those who don’t know is was a cycling Distribution Company wasn’t it exactly exactly and that was a fantastic like stepping stone from I guess a more corporate stable job to kind of an entry into the cycling industry and starting to be able to ride much more and actually learn a lot more as well like I learned so much during that job through the people I met through it as well and at the same time I was still and am still doing freelance design consultancy you know that’s still very much part of what I do I don’t necessarily speak about it on social media but it’s still part of my job well that segs nicely to how do you make a living I I guess a lot of people will just assume that Brands pay you money you advertise those Brands and get to tart around and do whatever you want I think that’s a a very narrow-minded way of looking at it to be honest with you I’m in I’m not I’m never going to deny it I’m incredibly lucky to get to do what I do but I also know I work harder now than I’ve ever worked in my life I work very long hours and there is I guess making a living of it is understanding that I I don’t make tons of money make enough that I can live comfortably and I can be happy and I can have a nice home but I’m you know I’m by no means rich in any way but I don’t think wealth should be perceived as income it should be perceived as in your life experiences and shared experiences with friends and family whoever you want them to be wealth is knowledge and experiences to me it’s not Financial um saying that obviously you still need to pay bills I get that it’s good that you get that because that’s important I man you don’t pay them bills it’s game over events you do lots of very significant things and I imagine some of them are very costly yes definitely way more than people believe how do you I well me and Francis have spoken about this um because you know like he rode Across America for two months and the actual cost of that trip was something like £25,000 you know it’s like outrageous amounts of money certain countries are more expensive as well of course yeah America’s an expensive country when we did when Francis and I did Australia I think that probably cost us each it wasn’t it wasn’t that kind of money but it was probably six seven Grand each still how are you funding that so some stuff is self-funded some stuff is funded by sponsors so depending on the sponsor will depend on how budgets are I guess controlled of them some will have a budget which is effectively an athlete or Ambassador budget and some will have a marketing budget and that marketing budget can be used for events or challenges and stuff like that the generally speaking the races the ultra races are pretty much self funded but things like uh the Everest for example or the world Champs project last year there’s more funding that comes from those from sponsors because they tend to be more sponsor Centric it’s one of those things where you almost have to be doing something all of the time don’t you you to be a successful content creator you have to have interesting stories to tell right and a lot of those center around events whether they’re already set out events or their challenges that you come up with yourself so you almost have to they are the the the bread and butter that keep you being able to do this as as part of your living yeah it’s a it’s a lot of work it’s a lot of work it’s a lot of money it’s a lot of stress it’s a lot of making sure that you’re physically capable which I think is a thing that people quite often forget about like to do like the seven Everest Challenge from 2022 the amount of physical prep that had to go into that not just as in I needed to be in a physically in a fit shape mentally I had to be in a good head space for it I needed to be lighter for it because ultimately it helped me climb better and there’s a very finite line to being too light and not being having any resilience and being you know too heavy and not you know being able to perform as well as you can so there’s a lot of things to juggle throughout that kind of thing I want to caveat that weight bit with you were training to ride an Everest every day for seven days straight exactly normal people don’t need to think about weight in the same way that you did because you were specifically training for an unbelievably hard event and riding up and up a hill for so much time weight is there’s a very unhealthy relationship with waiting cycling I think it’s very well documented I struggled with it myself and I think my struggles with it come from being a much larger person when I was young younger and being quite severely bullied for it um but you know there’s a in that particular event and that stance is we knew that an easy win was to lose some weight quite an easy win like it’s going to effectively allow me to climb better and this kind of way of thinking comes into every challenge things like the national 24 time trials weight is not a matter really in that power is the biggest metric in that is power and arrow efficiency so making sure your arrow and arrow d dynamically fitted to your bike well comfortable but ultimately if you’re a bit heavier you can generate more power that course is quite flat but also it’s better because you’re rounder you’re more like a torpedo yeah that’s why I’m a fantastic time trialist so you have a job that half of maybe even the whole cycling Community are envious of what are the best bits about it I’m incredibly lucky I know I’m incredibly lucky right and the best bits about it I would say there there’s several things that I really enjoy one of them is the shared moments with other people so doing an ultra even if it’s one that I’ve done two three four times and seeing someone else’s reaction to something like the sunrise or the scenery I’ve already seen it and I already know how beautiful and unbelievable it is but seeing someone else’s reaction to it I get a lot out of that um and for me I I love the ability to explore whether that you know it doesn’t matter in what kind of context or way that is whether that is just riding for days sleeping in ditches whether that’s you know I guess the term would be credit card bite packing you know staying in hotels and stuff being able to explore is the bits I really love there’s for me it’s very much I I think there’s something very rewarding about this almost like an analog experience of you know you’re traveling under your own Steam you’re smelling everything you’re seeing everything you’re touching it you’re hearing it I mean I’m not hearing a lot because I’m freaking half deaf anyway but you you know what I mean that’s a great term that analog experience yeah like you think of the difference of being in a car and driving across the country is you don’t interact or engage your senses in the same way as you would it’s it’s interesting you say that because Emily pretty much refuses to drive if like ever and on the there’s the odd occasion usually because I’ve had one and a half glasses of wine where I have to sit in the passenger seat and then I D and then we’re on roads that I drive all of the time and I’m like oh my God I didn’t realize you could see the angels of the north from there or oh there’s Pena monuments I didn’t realize you could see it from there yeah it’s a completely different uh experience but in a car you’re still you you the difference from driving and being a passenger is quite noticeable right then the difference between being in a car and then on a bicycle MH is another change of experience out of all of the things that you’ve done as a cyclist mhm which one of those things is the most significant the moment where you’re like that changed my life or this is the reason that I’m now where I am what’s the what’s the one thing if you had to pick it out where you’re like bam that’s it I think the one thing that probably put me on the I think actually put several of us on the trajectory that we’re now on was at 107 km every day for 107 days that’s when I kind of first started riding with Francis and that’s kind of that was a challenge that was a regular thing that Francis documented you know continually during that three and a half months if if you ask him he thinks he also did the whole thing yeah he I think he did 106 days didn’t he if you ask him definitely and that that was a a real eye open for me I mean I mentally really struggled in that challenge and I both you two kind of saw that quite a lot I think and I think that but that was a a very I guess an eye openening moment where I went okay I’ve realize that I can actually you know I’m not the fastest cyclist in the world I’m not the I’m never going to be the fastest and I’m fine with that but I’m a stubborn sod and I I can I know how to I know how to manage that and how to um I guess compartmentalize that and deal with it and I can go for a long time you uh on the subject of that something which I guess was a learning piece for me so I I’ve I’ve been have I been involved in more of your events than anyone else yeah you have you’re you’re the Oracle Jimmy you are the person that I regularly tell tell people that I couldn’t do most of the things I’ve done without you yeah so what you’re saying is all the credit goes to me yeah take I’ll take it thank you I think the the thing that I find fascinating about you from like someone which has helped out on a lot of these events is it’s so common in Men in life and Sport to be like Macho and bravado and Harden the fu up and I remember like you know in the early 107 107 K everyday thing it was so noticeable early on that if it was a day where it was like horrible miserable you were tired and the typical response would be like rule whatever number it is Harden the F up and get on and do it and the weather doesn’t matter just get out and be tough like that weakens you MH whereas actually all you need to do with you is is give you a cuddle give you a little rub on the back and go like oh you smell nice you going you’re going to be all right and you go oh yeah I feel great now and then but you’d never stop anyway it’s mad it’s like I think in the the Everest challenge if anyone seen that film that we made of it I think in that challenge I probably cried in your arms more than I have done my own parents over the course of that week I think perhaps you saw me and and for that whole challenge like if we talk about that very briefly I didn’t successfully do seven and a lot of that was caused by the we had a lot of bad luck in that challenge bad weather there was so many things out of our control there was loads of things but I still did like six and a half I think it was in the end it’s still a significant amount of Everest um but that whole challenge was about you know being adaptable and very early on I think it was the first day we all kind of sat down as a small group and like well how the weather for this week looks terrible what do we do do we reschedule it or do we just try and do what we can with it and we chose to try and do the best we can but for me that was such an emotional roller coaster that challenge because it’d be one day I’d feel nearly swore one day I’d feel brilliant and then the next day I would be in a hole and even and I think what I’ve learned about myself over the years is that normally I’ll start really well and I will Plum it quite quickly and then I just rock it back up again mhm and we saw that in the Everest like I think I had two days where I was down quite significantly and then I think it was the next I did like 9 and a half thousand nearly 10,000 met of climbing I I think there’s a really good message in that challenge around a dnf is not a bad thing no and you know you’ve done you have achieved loads of stuff and you’ve dnfed on a handful of things and I think that is a really good message because that’s what that’s what happens to normal people that’s what happens to real people that is life what it’s interesting cuz I’ve I’ve definitely noticed it over the last last maybe two years is very very very very accomplished Ultra Riders dnfing and being quite open about it yeah that is not something that’s traditionally been a thing no absolutely not they’ve you know ruined themselves put themselves in the whole injuries illnesses long-term recovery process and uh there’s a there’s an Italian guy called Mata deari he’s a lovely lovely guy um probably one of the best Ultra cyclists at the moment used to be his his cousin is a pro Rider as well now he dnf he’s never finished Atlas mountain race in Morocco I’ve never finished Atlas mountain race in Morocco I’ve done it twice me neither to be fair but I haven’t been either exactly and he it was recently the reason why I bring this one up because this was finished like two weeks ago right and he dnf because uh he was having knee issues and he said very openly said I’m I’m going to pull out the he was in second place he’s like I’m pulling out the race I’m having a lot of issues with my knee and it’s February there’s a whole year ahead of us still and I don’t want to jeopardize anything else later in the year well yeah finishing a race is not more important than having a knee exactly and I think you know that you if you’re doing an ultra or anything that’s like a multi-day thing or a longdistance thing you’re more like likely to not finish it than you are to finish it and being open and truthful and honest about that is fundamentally the most important thing because it’s more relatable and more people could be in that situation I get a lot of people message who like oh you know I’ve signed up to do blah blah blah race or Ultra or whatever it is and they’re like what I’m like okay cool what’s your goal like what do you want to do and they’re like a you know I want to come like top 20 or whatever it is it’s like just just if you finish it that’s a success so I I think a lot of people struggle with my approach to um having no interest in actually finishing stuff yeah so I say so if someone said my goal is to finish it I would say that is a bad goal your goal should be to have a great time yeah we choose to do these kind of things it doesn’t matter if you finish it or not but if you get home afterwards and you’re like I had fun I rode my bike I had I met people I had a good experience and I’m now home and able to do continue to do stuff and enjoy it that is a result whether you have a finishing number time or not doesn’t matter now ultimately no one really gives a monkeys outside of the top three in any any event right I’m not just talking Ultra cycling I’m talking any event only people really know first place maybe second and third right I couldn’t tell you who came second and third in the races at the weekend and I watch every single Lon bike race that goes I don’t know who came second and thir I remember who won them and so like saying to yourself oh you know I want to come in the top 10 or whatever it’s like cool but like is that is that actually a justifiable goal are you going to end up doing yourself long-term damage which is unsustainable for yourself and could potentially put you in a hole for a very long period of time or are you going to or is or or is the bigger goal just to as you say Enjoy the experience and the moment and push yourself and you know compete with yourself so whatever your goal is if it is just to have a good time just have a good time mhm yeah so you’ve been very open about Mental Health and there’s a lot of stuff about social media being bad for mental health mhm how has being very heavily involved in social media affected you that’s a good question um I think that social media is not good or sustainable for most people’s mental health and what I mean by that is that social media intentionally or not people use it as an opportunity to showcase the best of themselves and even like it doesn’t matter in what context or where that is it’s people do it they do they just do it they showcase the best of themselves it’s a way of show voting it’s a way of peacocking was how I was once described to as you know how like male peacock show all their plumage and I think that there one of the big problems with that is it forces people to compare themselves against other people and that is that is why I don’t think social media is good uh the comparison thing where someone will look at what say I’m doing and think a you know he’s he’s got it all kushy whatever it is right now you know I was in Spain earlier this week and you know that was great I’m not good tonight I had a great time out there but like there’s a lot of additional things behind the scenes going on you know uh I think that for me I definitely struggle with that comparison thing with some people and the way as I’ve got older and matured I think my solution has just been like cool just unfollow that person or whatever it is because that is not fundamentally good for me as a person to be seeing what whoever they are is up to and I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with that person I try and think of it in that context of being like you know people are putting out what they perceive as the best form of themselves generally social media can be used as a very positive tool to support and engage communities who are having tougher times and you know struggling with their own mental health or situation they’re in it just isn’t the majority of the time that it’s used as that and I think part of that is when we see these stories that come up about people being very open and honest and they almost get like highlighted to us because you just don’t see it very often right it’s very hard to talk about that kind of stuff publicly in a in a domain like that I I think for me the um the best and worst bits of social media are the best bit is people people like you which use it as a way to demonstrate that you don’t have to be how people say you have to be I.E you can show emotion and you can talk about the the bad things as well as the good things you know it’s it’s a place to have a really open community and then on the flip side the bit that I hate about it is how it invites people to uh comment in a way that just isn’t appropriate it’s very easy for people to just be rude and vile and horrible in comments or make content themselves that’s just designed for clicks and likes exactly which is incredibly incredibly destructive my my block list on all soci social media channels is extensive yeah because I kind of figure that I have to block the accounts that are doing horrible stuff because they need to be highlighted as accounts that are doing horrible stuff but you know you are a very very great example of the the reason that social media is actually an amazing place is that you can build communities and you can educate people about stuff um and uh have conversations with people and be Broad and highlight good things I think it’s very clear for me when I when I know when I’m struggling a bit because I don’t engage with social media you won’t see regular posts you won’t see me commenting or responding to stuff that’s when I know that mentally I’m not in a great space and I need to disengage from it and that that that’s important for anyone to understand that you need to pull yourself out of that situation on that subject how is your mental health at the moment if you’re happy talking about it it’s been uh tricky I’ve I think I’ve had a very hard year I don’t think there’s any deny in that if anyone that has followed what’s happened over the last 12 months we probably understand that like I had I had pneumonia in February and that’s a very very long recovery process and then I broke both of my wrists which is also a very long recovery Pro a year recovery basically for a cyclist sure yeah yeah yeah I think like for me you know relating to this being you know part of my job as well is like last year for me was a year where there was lots of contract changes and that is an incredibly intense and stressful time because you’re kind of saying to Brands how do you value Me by contracts you mean sponsors sponsors exactly um so that becomes quite a stressful time because I was at a point where you know I’d been with quite a lot of brands for a long period of time so I was one debating changing sponsors around as well um and also you know it’s a quite it’s a it’s a you know you’re seeing what your valued that and it’s quite it can be quite uh as a self-employed person it’s quite scary you know you’ve got someone turning around going like nah you’re not worth that when you’re like well why aren’t I worth that because that’s what you paid me before so why why did you perceive that I’m no longer worth that to you and I think you know my and I I think especially last year with the having to take quite a lot of time out for injuries and illnesses it meant that it was harder to have quite a lot of these discussions with some Brands and and you know it’s like like you’re saying it’s it’s very personal isn’t it you know yeah it’s incredibly personal you’re you’re trying to Define your value in a way that allows you to keep living and doing life you know yeah and I you know I understand as as I’ve already said a few times it’s a small part it’s not it’s not well it’s not a small part it’s a proportion of my income it’s not my whole income but ultimately that proportion of my income allows me to funds doing more of these charity projects and challenges which ultimately are the things that I care about the most or going and the the races for me are for enjoyment I do them for enjoyment the charity projects and those challenges are the ones on I care about the most and they’re to be honest they’re harder than most Ultras they just are so yeah the last the last year’s been tough I’ve really I have struggled over the last year and I’ve tried to be open and honest about it when it’s felt appropriate um but ultimately I I feel very lucky and privileged I have a very very supportive group of friends there’s three of them in this room like around me for when I am struggling and that ultimately is is probably what gets me through some of the really times you know and it’s not necessarily that I will open up and tell you all everything but it’s just sometimes having that little like you said earlier a little rub on the back a little little cuddle but when it comes from a friend to someone you don’t necessarily see that much it means 10 times the amount and that that helps does help well thank you for sharing all of your stuff which I imagine most people will have never ever ever heard about before thank you for letting me talk about it time for a game that we call overrated or underrated I’m going to read out a list of things and you’re going to tell me if you think they’re overrated or underrated first up we have off bike warm-ups or stretching before and after cycling suggested by Sab overrated I think they’re overrated as well I never warm up I’m so bad for it I think with cycling you can kind of get away with it I well I guess the warm-up would be if I knew I was going straight into a hard race I.E a crit or or a 10 m TT you know a short TT I’m doing a warmup for clim yes cuz you got to be sharp straight from the off but like you know I’m not stretching before I go for a bike ride I’m not stretching afterwards I actually stretch on the bike that’s a weird thing to say but like I’ll stretch out my legs and stuff when I’m riding well I agree yeah me sitting on a bike is basically stretching my body out of these days however you’re becoming a supper leopard aren’t you Jimmy I am a supper leopard yeah yeah you’re what you’re a leopard a Supple one he’s doing a stretching course would that be the right thing it’s called Mobility a Mobility it’s a life style change course by a guy who wrote a book called how to become a supper leopard Kelly stet is one of the most world-renowned leopards or he probably refers himself as a Mobility expert you knows all about jaguars Tigers leopards Lions just leopards just leopards W so over oh we already said didn’t we we all think it’s over yeah next up carbon everything so this is also suggested by Hector who says carbon is great but you don’t need everything to be made of it in fact I would argue that you don’t want certain things made of carbon such as chain Rings um there’s also things that aren’t much lighter than their metal or plastic counterparts but much more expensive um I don’t think I could ever say that carbon is overrated but I do very much agree with the point that he’s making mhm um like we’ve done a video before uh or Francis did a video with a carbon expert which was looking at products that just don’t make sense out of being made of carbon like for example chain Rings that’s one of the one of the products because it’s a you know a high wear product um I I would agree with you that things like a chain ring it shouldn’t be made out of carbon but things like personally handlebars should be carbon because of the vibration management you don’t get the same vibration Management in a set of alloy bars as you generally will on a carbon set of handlebars and this is a very personal thing because I have two broken wrists I sort of agree with you and I I want I want I do agree with you but I want to disagree with you because carbon handlebars are always outrageously expensive yes they are if you pay for the brand they are there aren’t cheap carbon bars Prime bars Prime carbon bars how much do they cost 40 quid please please tell me if I’m correct Emily it’s primer wiggle bre brand Prime is W yeah Prime is Wiggles brand but I think their carbon bars are relatively reasonable price probably not 40 quid they’re probably 100 quid still God so Francis is speaking from the depths of the studio that has done the search for us and he’s currently shouting 150 what’s the cheapest ones you can get some for £95 on Chain Reaction but probably for not too much longer right so 100 quid for bars still a lot of money I can get bars for 20 quid probably get bars for five quid I I think there’s other things that you can do like for example tire pressures y that aren’t exactly the same because what you are saying about the vibration reduction at your hands there is that is a thing but you can make your ride more comfortable with other things completely agree so I do agree but I had to make sure I disagree to you or I do like your point but I had to disagree you’re neutral um do you me neutral well no I I don’t use carbon bars I I have aloe bars and everything but the other point here is met some metal parts are as light as carbon counterparts the best example for me is stems exactly you can actually get aluminium stems that are lighter than a lot of carbon stems as well well I used to have a data I can’t even remember what model it was and it was it was a 90 mil stem that was about 90 G um and it it wasn’t cheap but the it was probably half the price of what the Caron equivalent would and I remember looking it up the carbon one was like 20 G heavier in the grand scheme of things 20 GS doesn’t make any kind of difference but my point is just because it’s carbon doesn’t mean that it’s actually the best or lightest product and what you’re saying overrated or underrated carbon everything overrated carbon everything is overrated I would agree with that uh the final one on our list also from Hector is oversized derailer cages and jockey Wheels can I start yeah please massively overrated especially for the cost of them they look great but they’re really over overrated cuz they’re so expensive and they don’t all look great I’m going to care about that say yeah I don’t I don’t even think they do look great it’s just different isn’t it I think the only ones actually look kind of cool of the ceramic speed ones I don’t like pretty much any other competitor brand so kogal have made him like black what is it called absolute black their one um we’ve we’ve had Nick ranting about um ceramic bearings on the previous podcast when you see so I’m going to take later on Nick we’re going to be with Nick I’ll let him run to me I’m going to put you face to face with each other and I’m just going to say bearings and run away and it’s like dropping a grenade and then 14 hours later you will know everything about bearings I’m not saying they’re necessarily better or worse I’m just saying that they they look cool that’s all I’m saying yeah the ceramic speed ones look cool I mean the argument on a take away the performance aspect of bearings the AR the other argument of an oversized system is that you’re causing a less aggressive we’ve been through all this you don’t need to tell me I’ve I’ve been through this in great detail with Nick okay they are overrated okay we you could we’ll say overrated on everything apart from cic speed one still overrated especially overrated because of the price underrated if you can get it for under 100 you can’t exactly oh right keep sending your suggestions to Wild Ones podcast at Cad media. co.uk and we might read yours out in the next show we’re going to skip over the fluff of the week seamlessly aren’t we because Our Guest is Chris Hall we knew we were going to be talking about 400 years so we’re going to skip fluffer of a week because we also didn’t have anything that I particularly care to talk about we’re perfect we are perfect yeah uh fluff up of the week is having Chris Hall on the podcast yeah but only from an editing perspective or more uh subbing down four hours into one hour not my flap up of the week though sorry Emily uh so let’s head over to your emails because it’s time for listeners takeover we need a jingle for that don’t we lots of people wrote in pointing out that aluminium is actually not the same and that there are different grades so cam emailed us and he said that there are actually two different main grades of aluminium used for bike frames 6,000 and 7,000 7,000 is stronger and harder so it’s ultimately lighter and stiffer for making bikes um he agrees that the way the tubing is designed and used including butting also makes a difference there are some Brands making highly developed high-end aluminium bikes like Mason standard Condor and spoons Customs uh the notion that aluminium bikes are harsher and you should choose carbon is outdated my aluminium mason definition has a far smoother ride quality than my old Carbon Canyon ultimate cheers cam thank you Cam for a bit of extra information cheers also we had other emails in from people correcting what we’ve talked about before we had a message from Thomas who is a climate scientist and he said commuting to work on my bike I heard you talking about electric cars in a previous episode the thing is even if the grid is 100% Co powered which it’s not studies show that electric cars still need about 31% less energy to power them that’s because power plants are more efficient at converting fossil fuels to electricity than combustion car engines are at converting fuel thank you Thomas that feels like a lot of science for this podcast but it’s interesting to know but he is a scientist he is a scientist so it’s fine yes I guess there will be people which there’s it’s it’s a complex answer but is a good piece of information to know y okay last one is from Dan hi guys love the channel it’s pushed me to buy a bike for the first time since I was 15 I’m now 23 anyway I bought a Boardman a DV from hords just over a week ago and sadly got a flat tire for the first time this morning as the ad on hord’s website said the bike was tubeless ready I tried to find the puncture and when I couldn’t I started pumping away assuming the sealant had filled it but to no avail thankfully I was only 5 minutes from home so I walked the bike home took the tire off and headed to a local bike shop who found that the wheel is tubeless the tire is tubeless but it has an inner tube in it and doesn’t have the correct rim rim tape for tubless thankfully the guys in the bike shop were very kind and didn’t charge for fitting a new tube and pumping it up but surely this is some dodgy advertising on Halford’s end I think this is actually really interesting because it shows how uh certain pieces of information have become like normal to us like for example we’ve been doing all of this stuff long enough and I’m sure there’ll be people that listen this as well that when it says tubless ready we know that that means it just can be used tubless but a shop is nearly never going to sell it with sealant because it’s messy and they don’t like doing it yeah um so this is a really good message that actually I reminds me that just because it’s terminology that I’m used to doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s terminology that everyone understands uh because it is it is that’s massively misleading you know yeah corre tubeless ready so you go oh excellent so tubeless ready doesn’t mean that it’s set up tubeless it will usually be set up with an inner tube in it but it means you can convert it to tubeless which means that you would have to put Rim tape in it and get sealant Etc yes and uh isn’t cheap and then you the bit the other bit which I think people often don’t know a tubus is the sealant dries out and you have to replenish it regularly typically every few months depending on how much and that’s why they never set them up tubist yes yeah uh but also what a legendary shop for yeah not not charging him for a tube that’s incredible he should get in touch so you can give that bike shop a shout out well thank you for your message Dan I’m sorry that you had to walk home but hopefully it won’t happen again that’s all for this week thank you for listening keep sending in your emails to Wild on podcast ATK media. co.uk if you’re listening to the podcast on Spotify apple or wherever else please leave us a f star review if you haven’t already it really helps us grow I like growing um and if you’re watching leave us a like and remember to subscribe so you don’t miss on the next episode thank you Chris you’ve been a lovely host and it’s always wonderful to see you wait I’m the host are you the guest oh yeah my brain is not work a great host today thank you Emily for filling in for the bits that I kept messing up um and we’ll see you on the next one bye