The Royal Society of Canada (RSC) and Massey College are thrilled to present the third installment of the RSC Dialogues @ Massey series, Water is
In recent decades, issues like contamination of our oceans from petrochemical spills, as well as the disposal of polyethylene materials into these bodies of water, have had a significant impact on the environment and our well-being. Although humanity has benefited greatly from industrial activities of the last few centuries, we are now confronted with the challenge and responsibility to balance industrial imperatives that support human consumption and the need to improve the way we treat the waters that give us life. At this event, speakers will explore the topic of water sustainability with focus on habitats, climate change, and Indigenous sovereignty.
Moderated by Senior Fellow Justice Julie Thorburn
Panelists:
William Cheung is a Professor and the Director of the Institute for the Oceans and Fisheries at the University of British Columbia, where he holds the Canada Research Chair in Ocean Sustainability and Global Change. Dr. Cheung is recognized internationally for his research on the interconnections among climate change, food security and biodiversity conservation in marine environments. As a marine ecologist and fisheries scientist, Dr. Cheung’s work addresses policy-relevant research questions through a transdisciplinary lens that encompasses oceanography, ecology, economics, and social sciences. He has been active in international and regional initiatives that bridge science and policy, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and the Intergovernmental Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (IPBES).
Julie LaRoche (FRSC) is a marine microbiologist who uses biochemical and molecular biological approaches to unravel the factors that control primary productivity in the ocean. She has developed and applied several widely used molecular biological approaches that have had long-lasting impact on our understanding of nutrient limitation in phytoplankton and other marine microbes, especially with respect to iron limitation, which is prominent in large areas of the surface ocean.
Frank Deer, President, College of New Scholars (RSC)
Frank Deer is Professor, Canada Research Chair, and Associate Dean in the Faculty of Education of the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Frank is Kanienkeha’ka from Kahnawake, a community that lies just south of Tiotia’ke in the eastern region of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.
Moderator
Justice Julie Thorburn was appointed to the Ontario Court of Appeal in June 2019. She was appointed to the Superior Court of Ontario in September 2006 and Deputy Judge of the Northwest Territories in 2009. Prior to her appointment to the Court of Appeal, she was the Team Lead of the Divisional Court. She is a graduate of l’Université de Montréal (Bac. Int. Chant) and Queen’s University (LLB). She has a Certificat en droit international privé from The Hague Academy of International Law, an A.R.C.T. in Performance Piano and the Silver Medal in Voice from the Royal Conservatory of Music. She was a law clerk with then Supreme Court of Ontario (now the Superior Court of Justice) and a partner with Cassels Brock & Blackwell LLP. She is a member of the coa-parkedrd of Directors of the International Association of Women judges (an association of over 900 judges from around the world), and Past President of the Canadian chapter. Until her appointment to the Court of Appeal, she was a member of the coa-parkedrd of Directors of the Ontario Superior Court Judges Association. She is co-author of the Report, Améliorer l’accès a la justice en français (2015) prepared at the request of the Attorney General of Ontario to improve access to justice for French speaking litigants. Until her appointment to the Court of Appeal, she was a member of the Attorney General’s Committee on francophone affairs. She was a sessional Lecturer Civil Procedure Workshops, at Osgoode Hall Law School from 1993 to 1997, and is co-author of The Law of Confidential Business Information, Canada Law Book, 1998 (co-author K. Fairbairn), and a contributing author of Digital Democracy, Policy and Politics in the Wired World, Oxford University Press, 1998, Ontario Courtroom Procedure (4th Ed.), 2016, and Canada Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (Thomson, Carswell). She has lived in Canada, France and Italy and works in both official languages.
Okay, thanks. Welcome, everyone, and welcome to Massey College. my name is Sapna Sharma. And? And I am a senior fellow at Massey College. And I actually used to be, a junior fellow here while I was doing my graduate degree at U of T, and it was one of the most enjoyable
Times. years past here. So, I’m happy to be back. And, I’m also a freshwater ecologist and a professor at York University. And, was inducted to, as a member of the Royal Society of Canada College of New Scholars, artists and Scientists this past fall. So this event and this partnership is very
Dear to my heart and I’m delighted to be here with all of you today. for the special partnership event between Massey College and, the Royal Society of Canada on water and the sustainability of our oceans. And before we begin, I would like to give thanks to the land we are on.
Massey College is built on land where many indigenous peoples have lived. It is on the treaty lands and territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, as well as the traditional territory of the Huron-wendat and the Haudenosaunee peoples.
We want to acknowledge our duty of our of stewardship towards the land and the great privilege that we have to work on this land and freshwater, sustainable city. I’m a freshwater ecologist and the same goes for marine sustainability and stewardship of our waters, is inherently connected and builds on the traditional knowledge and
Indigenous relationships to water. At the same time, Canada holds the largest freshwater supply of any nation on this planet. We are home to over 9 million lakes, yet still too many indigenous communities do not have access to clean water in their homes. We all have a lot to learn from our from
Indigenous water protectors and collectively advocate for universal access to clean water in Canada and beyond. And that brings me, to introduce professor Frank, dear, who will provide welcoming remarks from the Royal Society of Canada. Professor Frank, dear, is the president, College of New Scholars, artists and
Scientists at the Royal Society of Canada. He is a professor and associate dean and the Faculty of Education at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Frank is Kanien’kehaka from Kahnawake, a community that lies in the eastern region of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. Welcome, professor Frank dear.
Now go. Sapna. Y’all go. so. So again. Hello, everybody. a pleasure to be here. What’s going on? And welcome, the Royal Society of Canada is pleased to be back at Massey College following a series of successful events here
Prior to the pandemic, the first two of the events of this new series occurred in late 2023. Discussions on health and well-being of the elderly, as well as one on the arts and our artificial intelligence. I had the pleasure of attending both of these events in the autumn, and I’m pleased to be
Here again today for a discussion of the sustainability of our oceans, for which we have some great speakers this evening. I want to say in my language, thank you very much to all who have come to attend in person, as well as everybody who’s viewing
Online. I want to acknowledge the presence of one person in particular, Marielle LaBarge. can you put your hand up there? Okay. is. Yeah. Muriel is principal of the University of Quebec. Ottawa. And we’ll be talking a little bit more about where this particular initiative will be
Going next year, which will involve, of course, your great, institution, Niagara for attending. Really pleased that you’re here. My name is Frank. and I’m a professor and associate dean, as was mentioned at the University of Manitoba. and for this series of, dialogs, it’s
Important to note that the arc is composed of four constituent entities the three academies and the college, as was mentioned, but by Sapna. And for this series of RSC dialogs at Massey College, each of these four bodies have been
Responsible for organizing the four events in the series, which has been a great experience to be a part of the Arc College. Very excited to be a leading the third event in this series featuring featuring newly elected, RSC Fellows Julie LaRouche. And RSC College member William Chung.
Today we will hear from doctors LaRouche and Chung in a presentation called Water is Life Sustainability of Our Oceans. They will be joined by Justice Julie Thorburn, a member of the Ontario Court of Appeal. Thank you very much for joining us. Justice Stormborn.
This evening, the speakers will explore the topic of water sustainability, with focus on habitats and climate change. We will first hear from each speaker, followed by a discussion amongst the three of them. After, after which we will open the floor to questions from the audience.
Of course, people online are welcomed to pose their questions as well. On behalf of the Royal Society of Canada, I’d like to thank Acting Principal Doctor Jonathan Rose and the entire Massey College community for hosting us today. And I’m very much looking forward to today’s presentation.
I am now pleased to introduce this evening’s moderator, Justice Julie Thornburn. Justice Thornburn was appointed to the Ontario Court of Appeal in June 2019. She was appointed to the Superior Court of Ontario in September 2006, and Deputy Judge of the Northwest Territories in 2009. Prior to reporting to her appointment to the
Court of Appeals, she was a member of the Ontario Superior Court Judges Association and she is coauthor of a report prepared at the request of the Attorney General of Ontario to improve access to justice for French speaking litigants. Julie, take it away. Thank you very much for that very generous introduction.
I’m very grateful to you for that. And now I want to talk about the important part of this discussion, and that is our two speakers, the sujet qu’on VA abordé. Aujourd’hui, c’est la vie, c’est la vie. IL n’y a pas de sujet plus important qui le changement climatique. CE jour.
Our very survival depends on containing the nefarious effects of climate change, and the human behavior that is affecting it. Oceans are crucial for a biodiverse city. There’s biodiversity, conservation, fish management and all of these important subjects will be approached today by our very distinguished speakers.
These challenges face faced by all of us, but some are more seriously affected than others in peoples, fisherfolk and farmers. And a better understanding of indigenous ways may help us reach much more sustainable solutions. So we are very grateful to have not one, but
Two Canada Research chairs and very distinguished scholars to help us go through these this important topic and better understand it, because knowledge is power, and knowledge will help us better understand what we need to do, how we can confront the challenge, and how we can encourage others in our community to do better.
Without further ado, I’m now going to introduce our two distinguished speakers, our Premier, Professor William Chung, the Professor Chung, a Titulaire de la chair de recherche du Canada sur la durabilité des ocean et le changement climatique et IL est directeur de l’Institut des oceans et dépeche de l’Université de la Colombie-britannique.
IL est connu pour ses recherche sur les liens entre le reglement climatique, la sécurité alimentaire et le maintien de la biodiversité du diversité des environnements marins. IL a participé a this initiative internationale et régionale qui vous a jeté les ponts entre la science et les politiques publiques, notamment le groupe d’experts
Intergovernmental sur l’évolution du climat et le platform intergovernmental scientifique et politique sur la biodiversité et les services ecosystemic in 2015, as director of science of the nearest program, he led an international team of researchers studying the impact of two potential climate change outcomes on fish migration and its associated
Ecological consequences. The research was intended to inform discussions on the topic of the 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference in Paris. He also coauthored a report about the future impact of uncontrolled climate change on fisheries in the Pacific Northwest and its effect on First Nations communities, which
Depend on them, and he’s involved in several initiatives that bridge science and policy. As he says, unless serious measures are taken, the types of fish that we’ll have on our dinner table will be very different decades later than they are now.
La professor La Roche est aussi titulaire de la recherche de recherche du Canada en genomic Microbiennes marine et en biogeochemistry a l’Université Dalhousie, et Elle est un microbiologist marine qui utilize des approches de biologie molecular pour elucidate les facteurs qui control la productivité et premiere dans la science et
La développée. Plusieurs approche de biologie molecular qui ont EU un impact durable sur Notre compréhension de la limite des nutriments dans le fetus plankton et les microbes marine, particulierement qui concerne la limitation de faire qui est important dans the vast zone de la surface des oceans en laboratoire et le développer des approches.
Pour étudier comment les microbes marins et les processus biochimiques sont affectés par le changement climatique mondial, she conducted research at the Brookhaven National Laboratory flacso dioxin expression as an indicator of iron limitation in marine diatoms, which earned her and her coauthor Helen Marie Tobin, the Luigi Provasoli Award
From the Phycological Society of America for the most outstanding research paper published in the Journal of Phycology. She also studied how stress affects phytoplankton, and in 1998 she accepted a position at the University of Kiel as a professor in their Institute of Oceanography.
She developed her own lab to research how global climate change is affecting marine microbes and biochemical processes, and she studied how phytoplankton and marine bacteria are affected by increase in temperature and decreases in pH and she’s later partnered
With Canada C3 on a 15 150 day expedition along the Atlantic, Arctic and Pacific coasts to collect and share data. Allure avant les plus loin je vais passé le micro a professeur la Roche pour pour faire son discours professor la Roche a vu. Merci. Vraiment? Aren’t we okay? Bombe parfait d’abord.
Merci. Les organisateurs de ma voir invité a participé a la dialog qui a déja intéressant a ensuite beaucoup de microbes soit donc. the quant en parle de de l’eau. Si la vie, la vie en mer sa commence avec le plankton a qui était la base de la de
La chaine alimentaire pour tous les autres organisms dans la dans un peu de 20% de la productivité des ocean et attribuée aux phytoplankton, and qui, a aussi en CQ dans le passé la vie are évolué dans les ocean LR et les microbes dominée pendant de la forme de vie dans un organism.
Observe aujourd’hui sont le résultat de l’évolution et de l’invasion constant des métabolisme microbial qui se sont déroulé au coeur de the geologic. Donc son. Epoch geologic l’évolution de la photosynthesis oxygenic I de chez les marine I de instrumental en développement. un peu de la concentration de the oxygen dans le atmosphere
Con respire. Maintenant. Plusieurs, plusieurs grands grandes décision dans la dans la evolution. Donc un des étapes de la grande oxidation qui environ Danny a qui a conduit la la sont des cellules et des organisms multicellular aussi vertébrés et les planters pendant la toute la vie est encore exclusivement microbiennes
Serie de Bukele de retro action, qui sont de plusieurs centaines de milliers de la chimie de Lucien et le métabolisme de microbial adaptation a l’augmentation de la concentration de oxygen dans les oceans. En voici ce three, donc dans la plateau Proterozoic ou la développement fondamentale donc enseigne bosquet donay
Kya kiya pour me l’évolution de chloroplast a three ans. De oxygen atmosphere co co respire aujourd’hui. donc, pardon de Danny. les les organisms vivante qui controller la la biochimica et le microbe epi du trois dernieres années. l’évolution de la société humaine moderne. Nous avons modifier Notre atmosphere.
Maintenant et nous a Notre d’une maniere microbial capables de faire dans le passé. Donc, si on present maintenant, donc, si vous voyez in a composition on the phytoplankton, in community de phytoplankton qui est moderne et qui aussi sur le controle de la biogenic de carbon a d’azote a aussi on
Oxygen. Donc, la phytoplankton dans la course superficial de la. oxygen during photosynthesis de la journée a aussi la consume Durant la NE. Pour pour pouvoir compound le role de the phytoplankton et de microbial ecosystem marine de leur place dans la dalle ecosystem marine. Donc ce a gauche la la
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Transfer dans la dans les profond a peu donc on a on retrouve ses pyramide inversée donc la la la la de the projector premiere dans la a rapide. Herbs rootstock. Can you play? Merci. okay. Donc, ici je vous present on a on a un graphique qui montre la danse dans la
Lecture de la couche de Los sont sont donc une couche superficial qui qui NE pas le soleil et puis on couche profonde, qui qui ont fait ou noir. Donc dans le ciel, on retrouve le plankton, qui photosynthetic du jour et aussi la belle oxygen dans le kush supérieur a puy de la
Couche. stratosphere, la kush profonde la phytoplankton cool dans la dans les profonde and les bactéries qui qui degrade la matiere organic and le point Q je vous précisé d’apres cette graphique CQ dans la couche superficial oxygen et oxygen est en fait a a la course
Superficial est en contact avec le atmosphere a la oxygen, puis rapidement et on a la la la, la production de phytoplankton dans le kush qui separate de the dans la Cour pussum la separation en contact avec le monsieur, et puis le oxygen a Pluto consommé
Dan dans de parlé bacteria, et puis daughter, zooplankton a la, ses a mechanism la qui peut producer de zone dans les ocean qui sont limité a un oxygen. Donc qui sont en oxygen avec consists du crash sansapor AP donc sa create de zone de oxygen de de de the deficit on oxygen.
PUC skin appelle de zone Mort. La phytoplankton have ce besoin de de nutriment. Donc ils ont besoin de plus de de la lumiere du soleil, de d’azote et d’autres elements pour pour la cellule. Donc, la derniere sec oxygen et a plus is a réduit dans la danse dans le Kush supérieur.
Donc, si avec le réchauffement global aussi cyclooxygenase et moi on the concentration of oxygen dans la surface de l’eau et qui peut aussi le la couche ou a pu effectué la photosynthesis, donc a augmenté la la la on illimité on a limited on on a on oxygen.
Pour aussi, pour la diversité de plankton. La phytoplankton. It has been characterized as being characterized, on identifié de mille mille espace avec microscopy, on on développe de plus en plus de the system genomic genetic 100 plus précisément les especes de phytoplankton may importante de pour le plankton sur leur role dans la ecosystem.
Donc regard la la la la fonction dans ecosystem. La phytoplankton, la production primary aussi la evolution de la oxygen. Mais aussi keep of, the, fixation dans la production de toxine ou la production de the the organic si de la partie amber, the the graphic the on the microzooplankton la microzooplankton a
Caractérisée sur coté de diversité mais encore la on peut aussi pensé qu’elles sont la role dans la ecosystem des microzooplankton. Donc si le role de la. Degré de la matiere organic et on a meme, consume oxygen sur la partie de la respiration. Oops. Okay. On bacteria or microbe score on characterize par microbes
Si les lees et les bacteria a precise qui ont a remarkable chez la la la la diversity metabolic a la on voir si un community de différentes especes de bacteria. Mais qui est important cela? A la role dans la ecosystem. ET puis on pouvoir toutes les différentes
Metabolites qui ont été développé pour les microbes. Donc, on a la production de la consumption de consommation de methane, ou si la production de certains gases de difficile comme la ou a piano, ce qui fix la carbon com, par chemo, chemo, chemo organic mal. Okay. sewn on a beaucoup de oxygen.
Savoir comme team de plutot dans la présentation. Mais ce qui est important aussi avec la limite. Donc la sick. Yeah, yeah, la majorité de bacteria qui sont facultative anaerobe, facultative. Donc lorsque le oxygen dans dans l’écosysteme qui vont avoir d’autres maniere de respiration qui permet de vivre dans la zone,
Dans les zones, par exemple ou des on the the minimum de on oxygen. Okay, now on three avec la la de la dans les okay and donc simple graphic un peu compliqué. A toutes les flesh qui vous voyez dans diagram de transformation qui sont qui
Sont effectué par de microbes different type de microbes. Donc on a des oxidation on the flesh rouge la flesh noire et qui concerne la the the lac qui qui est important for donné de nutriment comme le nitrate et le moniak pour la phytoplankton epi on pouvoir encore set ce transformation qui peut dérivé
De the the Garza effect, comme si vous le greenhouse gas. donc la on car see the Retinia CQ ce microbe Yana beaucoup beaucoup de reaction dans la de la qui sont strictement anaerobic. Donc ce ce among d’oxygene a qui qui demande the oxygen donc. Okay. Oh, here we go. Okay, so, dans une
Communauté de bacteria qui vous voyez a le droit on a different bacteria. CE qui qui est de six cryptic qui vont développer? So a cryptic c’est un cycle ou, un un transformation de the de la ici VA composé for a note pour une transformation. Donc qui sont la la la and et
Qui le fixed dans a mature organic who, le maniaco le maniac kisai and imperva reaction qui VA et le denitrification qui VA balancer set set apart d’azote dans le systeme APC on quanto riguarda para par observation dans dans les oceans.
On on pourra pas détecté sur un moyen de la méthode sophistiquée comme regarder les des isotopes stable mais quand la condition environmental change est la petite un a metabolism qui VA prendre le de su sur l’autre, et puis la on pouvoir vraiment des changements. Donc, c’est encore a qu’on est en train de
Suite, en train de passer avec le changement climatique et les changements de l’eau de l’eau de la. On peut voir qui découvrir avoir des changements major a cause de de la la de disruption dans ce cycle. The cycle cryptic. Okay. ma’am. Encore plus surprenant CQ. Yes, ma’am. De bacteria.
Les en garde de la petite cellule Brun. C’est un bacteria. Who don’t en en on connait déja la genome. Donc la la vous voyez dans la dans la cellule la la cellule C a partir de partir de the genome sont donc le DNA sequences de laden P on a vu
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La la l’environnement chess qui VA et plus, nécessaire qui VA plus a, favorable pour la cellule de faire soit le denitrification. La fixation d’azote donc encore ici ce transformation sont pas la la concentration de the oxygen de dans la mer. Donc a different niveau de oxygen a segregation
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Okay, le stressor pouvait superimposed donc de pouvoir a quant un agent affecté affecté par plusieurs stressors apicha you aussi des régions. Donc meme si c’est un peu en voie global. So regarde donc les on courtyard évaluer the region ou qui vont plus touché Q dot. okay. Donc je sais pas.
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Gauche a la Fleche donc un regard la region ou la fleche bleue et a puy a certain period de Santa L’oxygene dans la course intermédiaire de Golfe du Saint Laurent a beaucoup diminué donc une diminution de the and the dans la concentration de la
Oxygen de su on until the day on oxygen a causé par la la la fixation. Donc la la porte de nutrient nutriment treffort dans la dans le Golfe, mais aussi un composition. The reaction et ce qui qui spokesman du a changement de the
In de transport, de mass, du dans la région, donc sa souvent accusé par le changement climatique. Donc quand les autres trophée, la couronne de direction donc de sica, yeah vraiment d’oxygene dans le golfe de Saint Laurent, qui pourrait affecté aussi tous les animaux poissons et mammifere Marin, qui
Vive dans la région okay, come on, come on. De les microbes vont répondre a ces stressor, puisque en ce qui beaucoup microbes qui sont, keep of parfaitement bien survive dans la zone, mortally zone, the qui sont un retrouve la perte de oxygen. Donc Como un peu de compound, c’est
Un g adroit ici un serie de the type de recherche qu’on fait pour essayer de compound vraiment de la grande échelle. Donc on a besoin de model, a pre model regional a la model global, a model le sont pas les les experience
Et culture et de the to the de mesures de mesures de confit de sur le terrain, aussi pour le microbe, la sécurité vraiment influence qui a vraiment influencer la a la field de la region de la type de recherche qu’on fait si avec le genomic a different type de, the the
The method molecular, we see es importante de serie temporal ou un peu de le changement évalué la la réponse immunitaire annual or inter avec la saison. okay. la derniere question on pourrait potentiellement mitigate dans le changement global. donc plusieurs approche maintenant qui regarde the qui come on sequester la la la.
The carbon dans les see ya in industry qui se développe alentour de marine carbon dioxide removal. So mkdir, if we, in in this approach comprise a Halifax say, that de alkalinity dans la surface de l’eau, qui VA le de la mais aussi a permet a permet la prize
De the CO2 additional dans dans la région. La donc voici son Arctic science a p, qui montre différent type de d’approche pour essayer de the de plus de CO2 dans les excuse voyez la rhodamine ajouté. a lot de the de rougé de la qualité pour ce de suivre la deployment, la
De la la, la solucion. The plume, okay. Anaya. la derniere oops. Oops. Okay. well. Okay. Parfaite donc la la de la alkalinity. On surface. On surface peut aussi permet de combat la acidification a we loter point on mitigate dans le futur de la hypoxia dans le monde, la perte de
Oxygen dans les quartiers a regional on oxygen dans la de la zone intermédiaire de de la calando donc sur separate accompli si avec la nouvelle method pour la nouvelle type d’énergie qu’on VA develop comme les eolian a pre and post de la a partir de l’Église de lu Chiavari, qui
VA libéré de la oxygen, oxygen, la present, la industry will le secteur privé just de la la jetée dans le atmosphere a la petite, un d’utiliser cet oxygen poor acid combat un peu de la Mort de Lucien. comment on on Marche en avant avec ses different type de mitigation.
Donc on a besoin de recherche, on the come on, separate affecté la le biot et les microbiome dans les regardé on a besoin de support the community p q la les approche qui vont utilisé vont equitable pour la communauté dans laquelle ils vont develop a aussi essayé de de
Travailler avec l’industrie le secteur privé pour voir comment on on implement the la police la pour essayer de de for preserving the environment. Quand on est de meme de mitigate les effets de changement climatique. Okay, say, now just just keep epi to possib sa le collaborateur a tout ce qui est de travail.
Donc, si moi. Excellent presentation on est maintenant des défi abordé. And we’re going to pass now to Professor Chung, who is going to talk to us about the sustainable of our oceans. So over to you, Professor Chung. Thank you very much. I have the, Thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks.
Thank you very much, Julie, for a really wonderful explanations of the functioning of the ocean systems. And I think this really set a very good stage, for the, for the, for my for my part of the presentations.
So I think we are showing a slide that is to at the end, let me flip it towards the, the, the beginning while I’m doing so, I want to ask you a question. How many of you have, eaten fish or seafood?
In this week? Well, quite a few of you. And how many of you do you know? where these seafood are from? Okay. That’s very good. Yeah, that’s. Yeah, this is a very informed, group. most people don’t even. They have eaten seafood that they may not
Know where they are from. so. And today’s, in, in my part of the, presentations, I will talk a lot about, the importance of the oceans and the connections of the oceans to people and one of the linkages between people and the ocean is
Through food and seafood. And that would also, be a really good illustration of how climate change, would play a role in affecting the oceans, affecting the sustainability as well as affecting people. And what can we what we can do in order to address these, these challenges as. Okay.
So this is a, a what we call a conceptual diagram of the my perceptions of how the oceans are linked to, the oceans and marine life and people. the oceans are, connected to marine biodiversity. They provide habitats, as Julie mentioned, provide food, provide energy, provide
Nutrients to support the diversity of life in the oceans. And, human society are also heavily dependent on the oceans, through and from there, we get a lot of benefits for food, for livelihood, for culture, as well as for many other
Aspects of well-being. The oceans also do a big job for us to in moderating our climate. As Julie explained, they absorb carbon dioxide, absorb heat. So without the oceans, our planet would not be livable. And and in when we are actually getting
Benefits from the oceans are often we are also impacting the ocean, particularly when we don’t do, our, get our benefits carefully and we do things excessively. So, for example, we have excessive carbon dioxide emissions. we are getting too much of a carbon dioxide into the oceans, as well as too much heat in
The oceans. That leads to the things that Julie mentioned. Ocean warming, ocean deoxygenation, ocean acidification. And that would then affect marine life. fish and invertebrates. And I will talk a little bit more about how they would be affected, and that would then in turn affect the benefits that we can get
From these marine ecosystems. Also, when we are interacting with the oceans, we may also have a negative impacts on marine ecosystems through overexploitation, pollutions, habitat change, invasive species and other changes. And there are already a lot of studies and international assessments showing that the
Decline in marine biodiversity that we have seen in the past century, really driven a lot by these, human activities. And that also affects the ocean’s ability to mitigate climate change. And, and this figures shows the amount of benefits that we get from the ocean through,
Particularly for our seafood. This is a data that shows the global productions of seafood from both fisheries and aquaculture, aquaculture in the oceans, because marine culture and what it shows is that we have peak fish similar to peak oil, we have peak fish in 1990s. And after that there are fish production
Doesn’t increase. And in fact, it decreases because of overexploitation. And right now most of the fish stocks are either fully or overexploited. Some may even be collapsed even if we have a really rapid expansion of marine farm, aquaculture.
So which is shown by the gray line here, the increase is actually not able to compensate for the decrease in wild capture fisheries. And and so we are really at the cusp of, oceans and seafood sustainability here. We can do business as usual that, with a continued decline of the oceans about
Diversity, seafood resources. Or we can actually bend the curve of the decline and revert it so that we can actually we recover and restore, the biodiversity, the benefits, potential that we can get from the oceans. but we have to, work on it with, different, different dimensions of, actions in order to
Achieve a desirable and, and sustainable ocean futures and to do that, we need to adjust one of the cross-cutting issues or challenges that we are facing for the oceans, for land and for freshwater, which is climate change and climate change, through ocean warming, extraction and deoxygenation are really affecting many aspects of marine
Biodiversity. And that would also challenge our ability to manage the oceans or conserve biodiversity. So, for example, we know that from observations in the past century that, as the oceans get warmer and the ocean condition changes, the distributions of marine species, fish, invertebrates, they change because
Marine life, fish and invertebrates and other marine organisms, they really prefer a certain marine conditions to live and when conditions change, and for example, when temperature becomes too hot for them. And if that’s sustained, many of the marine organisms will have trouble in functioning in terms of their biology.
And when that conditions are becomes too, too intense, then they will die. But many species are able to respond by changing their distribution. So that they can find, area where they are suitable to live. Cooler waters, mostly in high latitude regions or in deeper water.
However, that creates challenges in the way that, the ecosystem is functioning as well as in a way of managing the oceans or conserving biodiversity. So, for example, these changes in species distributions will create new interaction between species and that often will disrupt ecosystem functions and structure.
It also affects our ability to manage fisheries for biodiversity, for example, sometimes we want to try to avoid catching some of the non-target species, such as, those that are charismatic, like marine mammals or those that are endangered, and changing distributions of species may increase overlap of the, species that are
Targeted by fishing with these, non-target species that we want to conserve. Okay. At the same time. Okay. if we set up a marine protected area for a particular species, and the species change their distributions and move away from the protected area, so the protected areas effectiveness will decrease.
At the same time, species of fish or invertebrates, they change the distributions are moving across the oceans and they don’t need visa. They look like us. So we need to when we cross the borders, we need, travel documents. But for them, they would do that, depending on the biology and the ecology.
But the way we manage the oceans are really, bounded by those, political jurisdictions. So for example, shift species across boundaries with often, pose challenges in transboundary resource management as well as transboundary, biodiversity conservation. And we are already seeing these changes in the past few decades or half a century.
In when we analyze, record of, fish stocks, record of fish catches from around the world, we find that in the last 4 or 5 decades, the species, are represented in, in catches as well as in survey. Scientific survey records are increasingly dominated by species that are more, more
Adapted to warmer waters. So warmer water species because and that changes is related to ocean warming. So in this figure, for example, in the, area outside of the tropical area, you see that, the species are increasingly dominated by wet
And yellow fish, which is here, indicating a species that are more warm water affiliated. However, in the tropics, it is the warmest part of the ocean. and as the ocean temperatures continue to increase, we don’t know that some species may actually not be able to adapt to the temperatures, because the temperatures go
Beyond what they can adapt to, and there’s no species to move into those waters. and so at the end, it the species are more dominated by those tolerant species, while the diversity of species in the tropical waters decrease because it loses some of the species that are less resilient to warmer water.
And we are already seeing that, that’s happening in our fisheries. At the same time, besides the changes in distribution, species are moving away from the tropics to highlighted regions. the it also combined with the global changes in ocean productivity. So the energies that are captured by the
Planktons that Julie mentioned that then go through the food chain to the fish and and other marine life that then provide the resources for, for, for, for seafood, and with, with with the combination of these, we, analyze data with, scientific modeling and we
Find that, along the tropics, those are the areas where we would be seeing, a large decrease in potential fisheries catches, which is highlighted by the deep blue area here. And unfortunately, it really overlapped with those regions that are really dependent on fish and seafood as a source of nutrients.
And protein, omega three fatty acids, since iron, those are really important for their health. And those countries that are strongly dependent on seafood for their food and nutrients are highlighted by the orange and and yellow color there. So unfortunately, it really overlapped with the blue color. that shows the decrease in catch potential.
So that really creates a loss of risk and vulnerability to people who are most dependent on seafood. But those countries in the more for example, in the high income countries, in high latitude countries are not, really safe from these impacts because within the country there are also a lot of differences in terms
Of their vulnerability of different groups of people to these impacts. British Columbia as an example. we work with, coastal First Nations in British Columbia and we find that they are much more, dependent on seafood compared to the rest of the populations. And in our projections, we also showed that
Those species that are, coastal First Nations are traditionally dependent on as source of food and as well as in supporting their traditional cultures, are projected to decrease under climate change. And these species include salmon, halibut, eulachon. And those are really important species for them culturally. And also because of that strong cultural
Relationship, it is not really easy for them to shift to species that may, may be more abundant in the future because of that long history of traditional relationships with these species. and so this climate change will also have adverse impacts of vulnerable populations within those countries as well.
So what we are now need is to identify, equitable and sustainable ocean futures and solution options that would really be able to address multiple societal challenges food security, climate change, biodiversity conservation. And we need to identify those solution options that can have co-benefits, across
These different dimensions, as well as the need to address potential trade offs or negative consequences associated with any solution. Options are, for example, whether solution options such as, say, marine, carbon capture, carbon dioxide removal technologies, whether they have negative consequences of biodiversity or food. so those are things that we really need to
Understand. and I’m going to mention two, example of potential opportunities for these co- benefits for food, climate and biodiversity in the oceans. The first example that I want to mention is the removal of harmful fisheries subsidies. And we know that one of the big drivers of
Overfishing is, harmful subsidies that government give to fishing. So both those are basically government are subsidizing fishing, even sometimes the resources are depleted and not viable for for economically viable for, for fishing. But then we subsidies the fisheries can continue to go on even with, overexploited
Fish stocks. And we know that by removing those harmful subsidies, we can reduce excessive fishing. At the same time, overfishing really reduce the big biomass of the oceans, as Julie mentioned that in the oceans, top predators, keep a lot of biomass, compared to a lower trophic level.
And with the removal of the biomass, it really removes a lot of the capacity of the oceans in sequestering carbon dioxide as well. The carbon capture in the in these top predators, as well as the sequestration of these, top predators, of the carbon to the sea bottom through the waste that they
Produce, organic waste that they produce, or the dead bodies of these organisms that sink to the sea bottom. So by removing, harmful fisheries subsidies, it can rebuild these, top predators in the oceans. And that would increase our seafood availability to coastal dependent communities
Where these, top predators are really important source of food for them. it can also result in more equitable sharing of resources because particularly for, oceans, large predators, species such as tunas and, and billfish, those fisheries are only targeted by a handful of fisheries that have the capacity to go out to the open
Oceans to fish, but then in doing so, it reduces the ability of the coastal communities to catch those fish. So by reducing those fishing with by removing facilities, rebuilding fish stocks and more fish going into the coast, it can also means that more fish are available to coastal communities as well.
And of course, rebuilding overexploited fish stocks will also help biodiversity. Another example that I want to mention is, the indigenous Clam Gardens, which is, is a practice in British Columbia. by indigenous, coastal First Nations in there, where, where they build these, structure of stone structures along the coast, that would enhance the, the
Populations of clam and also make it more easy access to the clam resources as well. While, also that would enhance our climate productivity to coastal First Nations. at the same time, based on our research, we find that the clams are one of the species.
They are more, adapted or more resilient to warmer waters. So they are also a potential source of more, reliable seafood as the oceans continue to warm up. While these are structures are created, as clam gardens also provide habitats for other species to live.
So enhance biodiversity and then it also helps maintain, a traditional culture that, coastal First Nations have been practicing. So, again, this, this is one of the, the, the, the solution options that have these, co-benefits across these three dimensions.
And these are just a handful of examples of what we call nature based solutions, to, to address these, to address climate change, address biodiversity conservation as also address food security. And there are many other nature based solutions that have been assessed that shows how feasibility high effectiveness to reduce
Climate risk, as well as high confidence in terms of their their, their use and the knowledge behind it. This is based on an assessment by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. However, one of the things that is not mentioned here is that many of these solution options that will become ineffective or
Inefficient, when, as the climate change continue to intensify with high global warming. So, for example, you can imagine that the clam garden would not work, when oceans become too hot, when there is a heat wave hitting the, the coast, or when ocean acidification becomes too intense that the
Clams are being affected. So one of the preconditions for these solutions is for good mitigation. So it is not a replacement of climate mitigation. It is in addition to climate mitigation that we can actually help communities, help organisms, help biodiversity and help people to, transition through the near tum impacts.
While we are continuing with the effective long Tum climate mitigation. so with that, I want to thank you. And would, happy we’d be happy to continue the discussions with you. Thank you. That was. That was that was very, very interesting. Thank you so much for a very engaging and
Interesting presentation. It’s sobering but very informative. So thank you very much for that. And now, ladies and gentlemen, it is a time to ask questions. si vous vous allez vous vous en francais. Plaisir de traduire la question. Je pense q le professeur Chung NE parle pas francais. Me on Etsy.
Pour vous servir dans les deux longs official. Donc si jamais vous vous. Avez vous vous en francais? N’hésitez pas. So, ladies and gentlemen, feel free to ask your questions in English or French really is fine. And both. so maybe I will start off just by asking a question to the two of you.
Now, what do you see are the primary obstacles to to successful climate adaptation for, for ocean and coastal ecosystems? So maybe I will start first. I think this is a really important question. I think, there were we know that there are, many climate adaptation options that are
Available, but often, there are also a lot of obstacles that prevent, local communities. different sectors in implementing those adaptation options. So I maybe I highlight three aspects. The first aspect is, knowledge and information and that’s not only about the scientists generating the knowledge which is really important. but then it’s also, effectively communicating
Those knowledge to the, the stakeholders, to those people and sectors who need those information to implement, adaptations in a timely manner, particularly in the world where we are really responding to a lot of these climate emergencies. in a really short time frame. Take, extreme climate events. That happens,
With a really short notice. And we need information, really quickly in order to, for the communities, for the stakeholders, in order to respond and adapt to those changes. The second component is capacity. So a capacity are involved are from, from from the ability to utilize the knowledge
That we provide, to the financial capacity or infrastructure capacity to implement those kind of adaptations. And one of the challenges that sometimes when we engage with stakeholders in discussing climate adaptation is that, even though if we provide them with a loss of information, they don’t have the capacity to process it.
In a way that they are useful for them or that they don’t have the, the, the infrastructure to do that. So when we, for example, when we talk about, having, with, with, coastal First Nations, how they can increase their availability of
Seafood and the climate change, they said that, one of the major obstacle for them is to not, have, for example, enough processing capacities of seafood. So even though if they have access to more available seafood, they don’t have the capacity to process those seafood, for, for for the community to use.
So I think understanding what is needed in terms of building those capacities needed. And the third dimension is, institutional barriers. So really climate change is such a cross- cutting issue that really challenge, traditional institutional barriers. government or, local municipalities, they are
Often structured in a way that, make a dialog and communication, on issues that are needed to connect, in discussing how to address and respond to climate change. difficult. So breaking those barriers, breaking those silos are very important. obstacle to overcome. Thank you.
Professor Laroche, did you have anything you would like to add to that? yes. so, Yeah, William made a very good point during his presentation that all these adaptation are going to be short terme. So unless we control the climate in a major way. So, there are, obviously
Coastal adaptation. So movement, especially in the North, I think it’s really important. Like there will be adaptation to, melting ice and then changing of, of prey of hunting practices and so on. So there, you know, it’s going to be a short time benefit.
It’s possible to adapt to a number of situation that, like William presented. also, what happens though is like it there’s a whole social, movement that goes behind that, that, you know, if species that are being fished or hunted
Move their habitat and move up north, then who does the fish belong to at some point? Right. So we had a situation like that recently about the scallops in the East Coast and where because scallop is very sensitive to temperature and they’re moving north and they’re coming to Canada from the United
States. And then, you know, there’s there’s, like also, fishing quotas. And so on that are being challenged there. So I think it’s a, it’s a, it’s a global problem to some extent that that we have to, you know, talk, talk to our neighbors and talk to, the global community.
And if I saw your slides correctly, it looks like some of the most vulnerable communities, I mean, some of the most vulnerable communities within Canada, the coastal communities, the indigenous communities, and around the world, a lot of the most vulnerable communities, lots, lots of countries on the coast and Africa that are
Already horribly impoverished. There are going to be, you know, more severely affected than some others. We all seem to recognize this at some level, and we all say, yeah, yeah, climate change is real. Most of us have now acknowledged that climate change is real, and we need to do something
About it. How do we make the penny drop for ourselves and for our governments and I know you in particular, Doctor Chung, have been involved in both the policy side and the research side. The research is incontrovertible. how how do we make our governments effect real change?
There seem to be innumerable obstacles, even even with governments that seem disposed to take the issue seriously. So what can we do as individuals? What can we do as communities to try to take this more seriously and have others take it more seriously? Any thoughts?
Do you want to start or. Yeah, I mean, I can I can say something. So, so, you know, there are a lot of, of people and industry, the industry is really developing very fast for green energy. so at this stage, it looks like it’s it’s, try a whole bunch of things and
Then, hoping that, you know, what will pick up is the, the methods that are likely to, to yield the real results. So the issue that, for example, the work that, some companies are doing in the the Bedford Basin, that the Halifax harbor where they’re trying to look at the alkalinity
Enhancement to remove the CO2 from the the atmosphere into the surface water. So, that in principle the approach is very, sound theoretically so that it should work. the issue there is that we need to figure out if it’s going to have a massive, a major effect on the environment, on the biota, on
The living organisms. and also the industry, the private sector has to go very fast because there’s a very big competing industry, and the regulations don’t keep up with the, you know, the industry, the development. So this is really important where the government really has to figure out what
Needs to, to be done. And in, in collaboration, possibly with researchers deciding what needs to be measured to have a sound policy that we know we’re not going to, cause additional problems to the environment if we try to to mitigate in some way. So, you know, it is a trio here of the
Government, the researchers and the industry, the private sector that needs to come. And then discuss and go at a pace that is manageable for for all three, because we know policy is change a little bit slower than, than the industry.
And I guess that’s part of the problem too, because we’ve got the issues about we’ve got economies that are dependent on energy and, and people don’t seem to be inclined to conservation. What is the role of conservation?
I mean, we we talk about, you know, now we need to go to wind and solar and all these other things, but maybe it’s also turning the temperatures down, taking public transportation. How do we get people to to understand the implications of these things? Yeah, I think that’s a really good point.
And I think as we individual, in the society, there are also a lot of things that we can do. and we need to recognize the importance of having, seed, in the, different actions that can grow into something that have a bigger ability to transform the society and often people don’t appreciate, the individual
Effort as a, as, as a seed for this bigger effort. So because I think the bigger changes of societies are really, part of the, the actions of individuals, in the community. so the it means that we need to, put more, recognize the importance of these, smaller actions.
So, for example, actions may be in, in a small community that start to develop actions of, more efficient energy uses, reductions in, in the carbon footprint, in the, in the operations of the city or that are adaptations of, of of of climate change
That may seem to be a small scale. for example, in one of the communities that we work with, they are self organizing a workshop of, this is a fishing community to, to, to to teach the within their communities how to potentially have access to fish
Resources that may become more available to them as the fish shift their distributions, so that they can get more prepared. this may sound like a small actions, but then it provides a, an example that can then grow into something much bigger that can spread to
The regions, the countries. And and this is just an example. It also include, other, other other conservation actions or other, climate actions as well. and then in addition to that, there are also things that, needs to be implemented, by the government and in many contexts in Canada,
For example, it really required a support from the citizens. so having, providing that, support, identifying the policies that would be, positive to climate actions and providing the support in implementing those policies would also be a really good way that individual can contribute to these bigger climate actions.
And how do you see the carbon tax is helping? Do you see that as an effective way to accomplish what we’re trying to accomplish in terms of taking some real stands and doing that, or in terms of your experience in policy and to affect this kind of change in recognition about climate change.
Yeah, I think, there are various, financial instruments that can help with providing the incentive to, to, to reduce emissions. And I think climate a carbon tax is an important, one of those important instruments, particularly when it is implemented, with, with careful design.
And so I think this is one of the options, one of the, one of the package of solution options that needs to be implemented. And this is not the only one in this state, a whole portfolio of, of actions, in order to be effective.
So I’m going to ask both of you and professor Laroche as well, what what do you see as the most effective? If you were to say your top three things that we could be doing to affect the kinds of changes that we need before it’s too late,
What would you say? Well, I think that, William also mentioned that, that, you know, we have to reduce emissions. So that’s that is definitely something that, the government and the citizens have to do that. we have to, move to, towards, renewable energy. So I don’t think there’s anything that will
Compensate for trying to reduce the emission or trying to go to net zero carbon emission as soon as as fast as possible, so that I would say that’s the first course of action. And, you know, there’s always the there’s something that goes on in with
Communities and so on, and it’s like, not in not in my backyard, you know, it’s, what we call Nimby. So not in my backyard. you know, the wind farms are good, but not in my backyard. And it’s true that it would be annoying to have this running all day.
But it so I think they, you know, industry researchers, governments, it’s not just individual nations, but it’s a global problem. So it has to be tackled at a global scale with, and, you know, collaboration between nations and so on. That’s what I would say, that the
Government has to, they have to step up and then, you know, get a plan, a global plan. I would say that, it is important to recognize that, the, climate change are also felt differently by different people. so, there are, different groups of people who
Are much more vulnerable to climate change impacts than others. And it is important to recognize that these groups, either within the countries, within the community or internationally, so that, we can also then, design our priorities in our actions to addressing the, the, the risk and impacts that are felt by these groups of
People because those will be, already be impacted or already are impacted. and I would like I would continue to be even more impacted as as climate change continue to intensify. and they, there are, many, urgent needs, to, to support their, adaptations, as well as highlighting the importance of, mitigations,
For their, long, longer tum well-being. Well, I do like hearing the sound of my own voice, but I’m. But I’m wondering if any of you out here have other questions that you’d like to ask these distinguished, panelists? Is there anybody that has any? Here’s a question over here. Yeah.
So my question I want to buy a detail with Professor Chung. You showed a, map, which had the micronutrient deficiency by country as well as fish stock. Are you talking about protein or, like, vitamins and minerals and the, you know, the micro micronutrients, I think. Which one? Thank you. those are micro nutrients.
So we look at, across the different micronutrient, and identified the, the, the, the amount of the estimated amount of nutrients that are sourced from fish, from those countries, for, for, for the populations. And then, we identified those communities, those countries where when fish populations
Decrease, the fish population decrease, they will be, the, the, the the the availability of those nutrients will be actually drops below. what they need to sustain, the, a healthy diet. So that’s, that’s, that’s how we identify those, vulnerable countries to, nutrient deficiency, as, as fish decrease in their availability.
And then, I was wondering, in those same regions, in order to replace those nutrients, most likely they would increase agriculture, right? So how that would impact a lot of those regions have tropical rainforests, for example. So I was wondering, about that trade off.
There’s like an implicit trade off if we’re getting less food from here, we need to, you know, use another ecosystem. So I was wondering, how bad is the situation in the oceans compared to those other ecosystems that we might be increasing stress. That’s very good point.
So we are only showing the pictures in the oceans, but it is the whole food systems and and the ecosystem are interconnected to them. So, and so there are two things. One is that a loss of those, communities, coastal communities who are most dependent on seafood, they have actually limited access to
Alternative source of protein. So it is not so easy for them to substitute that fish protein to other source of proteins like, livestock and secondly, as you said, the the livestock, is also being affected by climate change as well. And often tropical area is also the hotspot of impacts.
And then for the oceans, people may think that they can farm more fish. but, right now, we also find that, climate change will also affect fish farming. And then secondly, fish farming also, the the kind of, species that are being farmed are also strongly dependent on wild capture
Fisheries because they need the fish meal and fish oil in order to as, as a source of of feed for these species. So what it means is that, the changing availability of, capture fisheries, seafood, also affects, those are farmed, seafood. Seafood as well. So it’s really, there’s
There’s no, currently, a easy solution, to deal with it with, with, unmitigated climate change and, yeah. So I was going to say there’s also research that’s being done on Multi-trophic aquaculture. And then that also plans to perhaps, incorporate that into, offshore wind farms and so on.
So use the infrastructure that you would be developing for offshore offshore wind farms and build a kind of multi-trophic aquaculture there with seaweed and then fish and so on. So that would be more like recreating an ecosystem there. and now we have a question online. I’m not sure what the question
Is. So, yes. the question is from Charles Corey. Is there any current research being done to understand the impact of CO2 capture and storage in geo formations in proximity to our oceans? And yeah. So, at Dalhousie University, we have a new
Programs that where there will be researchers that are looking into these types of questions. For example, where will it be a good place to sequester this type of, do this type of sequestration happen? and geologists and geo geochemists are better or geomorphologist a better informed to, to
Do this type of research. But there’s definitely work going going on on this. I’m not too familiar with exactly what, but there’s a lot of people working on trying to sequester CO2 at the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, I think it is. It is one of the options that I think is, is
Important to explore. But I think it is also important to, to to look into whether there are possible negative consequences of biodiversity. particularly, we know that there are, rich biodiversity even in the, in the deep sea. And a lot of it are actually unknown. We are just starting to discover a lot of
These biodiversity in the deep sea. So I think, as we develop our understand, these potential options, it is also very important to, to make sure that it doesn’t have that negative consequences. that would then, affect, these important biodiversity. All right. I think we had did we have one last question,
Professor? Yeah. No, just just we have one right here. So, professor. Okay. Merci beaucoup. J’ai beaucoup. appreciate the presentation. Very rich presentation. in particular, your diagnostic and your prescription. But I’m still looking for the measure to be taken by political actors. And obviously, I’m a political scientist, so
I’m very concerned by this. And I see a lack of interest on the part of people involved in party politics and in fact, people also on the business side, everyone wants to fish. Everyone wants to bring the goods to the market and then we see what’s happening in the Atlantic region.
For instance, on the issue of shrimps and conflict between communities, between the local inhabitants, between the Aboriginal communities and the tension are extremely high because it has been overly fished. So, the question is that do we need royal
Commission again to examine this issue to make it a real public event, a real public moment event, because policy seems to be incapable of doing it. William referred to the issue of, well, perhaps if we do act individually, of course it matters if we act locally. Of course it matters.
But then we know that there are states competing with one another and fishing in the territory of the other states. So how do we act? How do we intervene? How do we mobilize interests at the international level and going to the national level following that? Thank you. Any thoughts?
Yeah, I think, that’s that’s really, really important point. and it, Julie also mentioned about the pond, for example, as an example of international management of fish stocks, which involve, multiple jurisdictions in managing a fish stock that’s shared by countries in the US and Canada.
We have actually a number of fish stocks that are there in, for example, in the Pacific Islanders, we have a number of fish stocks such as, salmon, halibut, and that are managed, collaboratively between us and Canada. And also the time we see the up and downs of this agreement, that, it
Really boils down to the dialog collaborations, and the knowledge combined together. So science information combined together to inform those discussions because we, we know that a corporate, a solutions if people are looking at a kind of game theory setting that it will benefit for both countries.
But a lot of the time the, either the short time benefits, or some of the institutional barriers, have lead to, obstacles, in preventing a corporate, agreements between these different jurisdictions. So really, I think it is it is this is, a complex issue, but I think a combining, an open dialog with
Informed by, knowledge and science and information, and, is, is the prerequisite for having a effective solutions for that. But I guess one of the concerns, too, is that everybody says, well, even if I do everything that I’m supposed to do, well, there are all these countries out there that are just not
Doing anything. So what’s the point? And I think there’s some of that frustration because we are much more interdependent than we have ever been. I think in terms of what’s going on in the world and how we can address those things.
Now, there was a question, did you mention that there was a question over here? yes. Thank you guys. So, this is entirely not my field. thanks. and so I have the benefit of being a layman and thinking of it from a layman’s perspective, which I’m not used to, but, so
You’ve asked Professor Chang if you know where your food comes from, and, I try to eat a lot of fish because I’m vegetarian, but I do eat fish, so I don’t eat meat. And every time that I go to buy fish, I don’t know whether I should go farmed or wild
Caught because I tried to be a well-informed but no matter depending on which documentary I watch, fishing is great. and and farmed fishing is destroying the oceans because there’s toxins and diseases that go around or the other way around. If I
Watch a different, show. And so, my first. So I have a two part question. The first one is can you tell me which one I should buy? and that’s from my personal perspective. But then as someone who might have levers as working at U of T, if if I don’t understand.
And, can I help translate your science so that we can now inform governments so we can form other members of the public? What is the best solution? Yeah, this this is a good question. And even sometimes I don’t, fully know
Whether a seafood should be, a kind of a source that are environmentally acceptable to eat or not. and so I think the easy answer to this is that there are a lot of a number of, credible, organizations, non- governmental organizations, that try to provide that information to
Consumers. so they’ve done the due diligence of, assessing the scientific information to understand, based on the best of their knowledge, whether it’s seafood is, is is is sustainably source or not. and some of it is showing up in some of the, the restaurant or seafood sources that, for
Consumers like some, some where would you go to get that information? so they usually they would be posed on the package or on the seafood menu. and it is very, also very useful to ask the, the managers of the shops or to the
Restaurant, waiter or waitress about that, because even though they don’t have those information, the consumer requesting that means that that they know, okay, this is something that they care about. And that’s, they would think about having that in their and in general that I think speaks to the point of the importance of,
Something that is recognized internationally, called ocean literacy. So the importance that people, educate themselves about the oceans, about ocean sustainability, in order to make the decisions. I eat farm fish. I admit it. yeah. So, yeah, we don’t have a lot of wild like,
For example, salmon, trout. But, you know, it depends like, that’s probably like an area where it needs to be improved. like the, the way that the, the, the fish, is farmed, on land or in the open ocean and so on.
So there’s a lot of research going on there. But like, as William was mentioning earlier, like, for example, in Scotland, the aquaculture industry is and a lot of trouble for diseases. But also because of warming. So the warming so basically the fjords are getting too warm for the salmon.
So, yeah, that that’s also a problem. It’s not just a problem for the wild fisheries, but also for the aquaculture industry. Okay. So we’re a little over our time actually. But we have one last question. I know you were waiting for quite a while, so we’ll we’ll hear your question before we
Finish. Thank you. Thank you both for both sides of, of the discussion, because it’s very important to see a holistic view of ocean sustainability. I think I’m going to probably bring the mood down a little bit because I’m a little bit more pessimistic, especially when it comes to policy.
So I’m an undergrad here at U of T, and I did part of my undergrad at University of Victoria. So a lot of what you said kind of resonated and focusing on policy and mitigation. we’ve kind of been on this precipice for a while. It’s not like this is something new.
I come from the East Coast and remember very vividly, one that’s kind of used by, I think every course that I’ve done in ocean conservation. And that is the the collapse of the northern cod. So we’ve been here before. It’s not the first time we know the signs.
Now we know what we’re looking for to see these collapses before they happen. And we still seem to be looking past it and thinking that, oh, somebody else is going to take up this mantle and somebody else is going to fix this problem for us.
So there’s obviously a disconnect between the science and the people who are making these decisions. And because the science is there, the science has always been there. And the sciences have always been saying that these problems are there and we need to do
Something about it. But the lobbying and the industry seems to always kind of come first. And and so in both your opinions, how can we see that policy is actually going to take precedence, that it’s actually going to take priority. And what can we do?
Like for myself, going into this industry, just coming out of university next year, how can I look going forward to getting into this industry? And what can I do as somebody young in the industry, to be able to make these changes
And to actually have people open their eyes a little bit and understand that we’re in a lot of trouble. So I could take that. to begin. so, like, I’m just going to talk about the mitigation aspect. So, you know, removing carbon dioxide from the, the atmosphere.
So the industry now is growing really, really fast. There’s a lot of investment from, well, philanthropies, but also just investors in general. so the industry is very big. So the issue that’s taking place now is that can the research and can the policy keep up. So can the government make the
Regulations fast enough to, and sensible enough that, that this industry can grow but safely? to try to resolve these problems because that’s, that’s the like the bottom line is that we will have to, deal with the climate,
The warming, if we want to solve all these other problems on the long terme short tum solutions are possible. But, you know, it involves the placement of people and so on. And another point that I want to make as well
Is that, equity equity and the climate change, you know, it’s not just, in Canada and there’s a lot of work that we need to do in Canada, but there’s also around the world because, like what William was showing, you know, these regions that are far more
Impacted than we are and, you know, people’s migration and so on. So >> And start making regulation and talking with the, the researchers and, and the industry as well. So ATS right now I two weeks ago I was at
This conference in New Orleans, and then about a third of the conference was about marine CDR. and that’s I’ve never seen this before. and then we had all the, all the government agencies were there, Noah. And, you know, and so on. so there’s a lot a lot of concern about and a
Lot of action taking place at this stage in all directions. Yeah. I think yeah, it’s it’s a difficult question. I think particularly in the context of, of Canada, the way that, in this specific case about fisheries management, the, the, the
Minister has a really big power in deciding on the decision that discretionary power, even with all this, all the science that they there is a decision that may or may not be informed by science. It may be because of the balance between the sea, interests, and various objective as well.
But also the time, the, the, those decisions are being made without too much transparency of like how much science are taking into account in making those decisions, how much of this kind of, weight in terms of putting in societal injuries or industry injuries?
So I think, without changing that, way of decision making, sometimes it makes it challenging to, to, to make sure that the science can, can, can directly, the best science are used in those decisions and that decisions are made are as a consensus of what
Is needed to do for managing those those resources and biodiversity. We we did a comparison with the, the decision making structures in the US. and that’s, much more, in some, in many cases much more transparent because it’s really, dictated by the, the laws and, and the
Legislation in there of how they, they need to, for example, the way they need to rebuild fish stocks, the way that they need to declare stocks to be endangered and be conserved. it’s much more structured compared to the way that are being done in Canada. So I think, it it’s beyond
What, my expertise is. But I think that’s something that would need to be, further discussed and see how it can be improved in order to, to, to, to improve that kind of decision making process. ladies and gentlemen, I wanted to thank you all for coming here and and for those
Interesting questions. And that was a sobering but but an important, last question for all of us as to how to affect the change that we all know we have to before it’s too late. so I’m going to ask Professor Deer to come up
To do the closing remarks. Thank you. Sir, thank you very much. I come from just south of Montreal, if you will, and we grew up, reciting every day. when we were younger, something called the Aqua. I guess that can translate to something like words before all else.
And it’s a it’s a Thanksgiving address. And you would give thanks to a number of things that were important, to our community. And, and, and one of them went something like this ago, Oscar de Noni, nao negra errado en gashuwa de errado means thank you or thanks.
And is the waters. the word for water is ongoing. Us. And I’m thoughtful of why we were thankful of those things and why we continue to observe the importance of water in all its forms to our ecosystems, to our to our world.
Frankly, the comments made by, Julie Niagara, thank you for your contributions on phytoplankton and Doctor Chung’s, contributions, in regard to seafood, really, really quite important. And they remind me of the words of a scholar from the University of Alberta who didn’t make this up himself.
It’s sort of a truism amongst many is that you need to think seven generations, everything you do in this world now needs to be thought of as affecting our our children, their children, their children, seven generations from now.
And, it’s a truth that, comes to mind when I was listening to some of this really important work, so, now, thank you for our panel for, for, sharing your knowledge. And I hope everybody will share in some applause. thanks for their contributions.
And again, thank principal Rose and the Massey College community for hosting us again today. Not the last time we’re converging again here in this room in May. we’re looking forward to that. that fourth installment, which is in this case, hosted by the Academy of the
Humanities. And it will be a discussion on freedom of expression. So we’re really looking forward to that final one of the four series as they’re being hosted here at Massey College. events like this could not occur without the work of some very key and important people.
First, the folks at Walter House who are representatives of the Royal Society Canada, Russell MacDonald, who has been here, helping with his leadership. Amelia. Yeah. Amelia. Domaradzki. Where are you? Right. There you go. Thank you. Chris. Dragon. Thank you very much. Really important. I want to say, go on my language.
Thank you very much, Joe Costa. You can’t see him, but he’s around the corner there on it now. Goa. Thank you very much. we mentioned, acknowledged the presence of Muriel Liberge from University of Quebec. all the way, the plan now is in place for your institution to be
Hosting the RC dialogs next year. By next year, I suppose. I mean, 20, 24, 25. And we are going to have four events, just as we did this year. And they will be apportioned to the three academies in the college next year. So we’re really looking forward to that.
So thank you for inviting us into your your institution. With that narrow goal, thank you very much. Keep an eye out for the fourth installment, which is again occurring in May. and have a great, evening. Now, thank you very much.