Honour Killings, Child Marriage, Domestic Abuse & Modern Slavery: How We Survived | Roundtable

In this episode of Roundtable, we gathered six remarkable women in conversation to celebrate International Women’s Day. Sema Gornall, Nina Aouilk, Natasha Sanders, Shamsa Araweelo, Warda Mohamed, and Rubie Marie sat down together for a profound discussion on the pressing issues affecting women and girls worldwide.

From tackling female genital mutilation (FGM), child marriage, and honour killings to addressing the challenges of domestic abuse and gender-based violence, we delve deep into these critical topics and explore how society can unite to confront and overcome these issues, paving the way toward a brighter future for us all.

For more information on the impactful work of each of these inspirational individuals, please follow the links below.

Sema – https://thevavengers.co.uk/ and https://www.instagram.com/semagornall/

Nina – https://endhonourkillings.org/ , https://ninaaouilk.com/ , https://www.instagram.com/londonslifecoach/

Natasha – https://www.instagram.com/handbagsnhorses/

Shamsa – https://www.instagram.com/shamsaaraweelo/ and https://www.instagram.com/gardenof.peace/
Tiktok: shamsa Araweelo

Warda – https://www.lastingsupportservices.com/ and instagram.com@lastingsupportservices/

Rubie – https://www.instagram.com/rubiemarieuk/ and www.oxfordagainstcutting.org/

00:00 – 01:49 – Intro
01:49 – 05:00 – What problems face women and girls globally?
05:00 – 06:02 – Is the UK an equal society?
06:02 – 11:03 – How do notions of honour and shame impact women?
11:06 – 13:05 – Should we all be feminist?
13:05 – 14:40 – Is culture used to excuse abuse against women?
14:41 – 19:19 – How has motherhood changed you?
19:20 – 25:33 – Do institutions fail women?
25:34 -29:12 – How are children impacted by gender-based violence?
29:14 – 32:45 – What role do men and boys play?
32:46 – 34:40 – What is the future we’re striving for?
34:42 – 41:00 – How has your identity as a woman evolved?
41:00 – 45:38 – What do you love about being a woman?

SUBSCRIBE TO LADbible TV: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4oVjJptcsvtgIMrdIUQYlQ?sub_confirmation=1
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lad/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ladbible/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladbible/
X: https://twitter.com/ladbible
Be in our videos: http://instagram.com/ladbiblecasting
License this video: licensing@ladbiblegroup.com

#LADbible #internationalwomensday #iwd2024

FGM – one of the first things I heard about it, it was, you know, “You’re becoming a woman,” that there was something that was a part of you that was so disgusting that it has to be removed. I was six years old, but you couldn’t even question it.

You knew how horrible it was, you knew that you bled, you knew that you’re in pain, you’re in agony, but everyone around you is smiling. I am Natasha Saunders. I’m a survivor of sexual, mental, physical, financial, and emotional abuse. I have changed the law after seeing my ex jailed for 12 years.

And I am the proud mother of three children and now married to my best friend. I’m Warda Mohamed, representing Lasting Support Services. We specialise in trauma when it comes to children and young people. I’ve made a huge impact with the word honour killings. A lot of people didn’t know what it meant,

But now millions of people understand the word honour killing because I survived one. My name is Nina Aouilk, and I run a nonprofit called End honour Killings. My name is Sema Gornall. I am the first generation woman in my family to be free of modern slavery.

And I run the charity called The Vavengers. My name is Shamsa Araweelo. I am a survivor of female genital mutilation, domestic violence, forced marriage, and marital rape. My name’s Rubie Marie, and I am a survivor force marriage and honour-based abuse. In that forced marriage that I endured,

I was raped and I had my daughter, which is my inspiration and power and strength that drives me from day to day. What problems doesn’t affect women and girls in the UK and globally? [Natasha] Misogyny. Conscious and unconscious bias, where somebody says, “Well, I’m not at all, I’m not a misogynist.”

And then they’ll go, “But if you give a woman that job, she’s probably gonna have kids, isn’t she? And then she’ll be off looking after the kids, so she won’t work full time.” And you’re like, “But you are adding to the problem. You are adding to the inequality.” We face it every day.

Every day. I just feel that most women are just living in survival mode for whatever issue or trauma that they might have experienced. And because they’re stuck in survival mode, they’re not able to positively contribute as much as they would have or could have if they had that issue dealt with.

And I feel like it’s more of a societal issue because we have become so individualised. And if everyone is just on survival mode, they’ve got their blinkers on, then it means they can’t, they have no self-worth, they have no confidence, and they’re disempowered. If we’re honest, we deal with more,

We deal with more issues in life. We have more barriers against us in the first place, and that applies to… And you judge a society based on how they treat the most vulnerable, so- Yeah. The biggest issue facing women and girls in our world globally is the power imbalance.

And we have got to address that power imbalance. It comes in the forms of not being able to access water, not being able to access food. At times your money is controlled or there is gender pay gap; so even if you do make money,

You don’t make as much of, you know, as men, which is a huge problem. There’s a lack of access to education, huge issues. And gender-based violence, number one issue facing women and girl children. Girl children do not live an equal life anywhere in the world, not in the UK, not in Bangladesh,

Not in Turkey, where I come from. I come from near a Syrian border; I’m a war child. I’ve never seen a free woman in my town. We’re just allowing women and girls to walk through life like ghosts and expecting them to thrive and deliver and serve on a daily basis. Well, gender-based violence

Is basically the discrimination, any form of violence that you are facing because of, purely because of your gender. That’s as simple as that. Modern slavery is act of forcing somebody to do something they do not consent to, simple as that. It comes in forced marriage forms, it comes in financial abuse,

It comes in trafficking someone to another location to do something they do not want to be subjected to. Anything that you can’t consent, it’s modern slavery. I think with domestic abuse you have this disconnect between it’s broken bones and bruises or whether it’s other things, whether you are being financially abused,

Whether you are being forced to do things you don’t want to do. It’s something that people really struggle with, you know, coercive control: “Well, you could have said no,” and they don’t ever put themselves in that situation. So that’s a real disconnect between what is abuse of a female and,

“Well, we can’t see it, so it didn’t happen, so it can’t exist.” When I experienced my forced marriage, everything happened so fast. It was forced marriage, marital rape, domestic violence, everything in one. And it literally, I almost disconnected from my own body. Because I grew up here,

And I’m like, “How is this happening to me? And I couldn’t say anything because if I said something I would get beaten even more. So I thought, when I came back to the UK, I thought, “Oh my God, I am so grateful. I’m safe. I’m gonna get help.” I didn’t.

Yeah, I think there’s a disbelief that gender-based violence exists in the United Kingdom. And with my story, a lot of people say, “Well, did that happen in India? Did it happen in a different country?” And they’re quite shocked that I’m receiving hundreds of messages each day, not even week,

From victims that are struggling with forced marriages or FGM, or whatever the case may be; domestic violence is huge. And they think this happens elsewhere so we should be pushed elsewhere. There’s a lot of work we still need to do. I don’t associate with the word shame anymore. Absolutely not.

Ashamed of what? [Rubie] I think community has embedded that word into us, the word shame, because- So bad that we were so blindsided by every, it’s like we couldn’t, we couldn’t make any judgements, any decisions outside of that. And we adapted that to ourselves. We applied that word shame to ourselves

And thought. “Yeah, I’m a shameful person.” I use the word shame, I’m gonna continue to use the word shame because there’s a lot of people out there that are using it, it’s not about me. I might have moved on, but they need to hear it- No, absolutely. So they understand

That they don’t have to hold it, that they can let go and be completely free of that trauma that’s holding them down. So, although we may have moved on, it’s really for the person listening. I think we need to understand why shame is so powerful.

I think the reason why shame is so bad, affects us more as women and girls, is because our intrinsic value comes from stupid, superficial things, which I don’t think matters. For example, your virginity. If we’re taught that from a young age, you know- It’s conditioned. We are conditioned, right?

So if we undo that and just value ourselves based on our strengths and our qualities and intellect and everything that we have to offer, then I think shame would lose its power. I’ve, a victim of an honour-based killing. Obviously I survived. My sister was abducted and sold to human traffickers because of honour.

It was predominantly done because my parents have a perception of how they should be seen in the community, that they are respected. And it’s a generational curse, as I call it, whereby people will kill, they will hide their children, you know, move them across the world

To just maintain this honour within the family. And it’s always girls, unless the boy is showing that he has a different kind of desire when it comes to a partnership. There is always, it’s normally a gender-based violent act towards girls. I am working with a team of lawyers, I’m really proud,

To take away the word honour from any kind of killing. So if when I turned up at the police station and I had said it was an attempted murder, it would’ve been respected, something would’ve happened, there would’ve been more movement. So by taking that word honour out of the law,

Which is what controls the police’s actions, then we can actually make a bigger change. So I think we have to think slightly differently for the future generations to benefit from that, because there is no honour in killing. Exactly. It’s not honour, it’s oppression-based violence. Anyone looking for a better word, oppression.

We label it under the name of honour and then everybody wants to step away from it. There is nothing honourable about forcing a person into a forced marriage, whether they’re a child or adult. I was taken to a doctor. I started ripping when I was 14 years old. And my mother was like…

Because I was so scared to tell my mom, I was.. It was stinging, it hurt. And I waited a few days and then I thought, “No, I have to tell her because, like, it’s too painful.” So I said, “Mom, I think I’ve ripped.”

I swear to God she looked at me and she goes, “What?” I said, “I think I ripped.” And she said, “I have, you know, I am… This was 60 odd years and I have never seen or had any other person experience what you are describing to me.”

So she said, “Were you sexually assaulted?” I said, “No.” “Did you have sex?” I said, “No.” She didn’t believe me. Shamsa, I feel a special, you know, a personal connection because we are both Somali. And I just wanna say that I think it’s so brave that you do,

You’re mouthpiece for so many people, not just in our culture, but especially in our culture, I would say. And with what you just said there, your reaction is 100% justified, no one can take that away from you. But what made your… What I feel like what made your mother

Want to do that I can understand. Is the fear. I could just picture it. No, no- It’s the fear of, “What might people say?” ‘Cause what’s scary about this subject, and other subjects like yours as well, is we don’t want to blame. People say, “But the women in those communities are perpetrators.”

Yeah, but they are all… They are perpetrators. They’re also victims. But it’s a wider context. You have to understand it to challenge it. Absolutely. But as a 14-year-old then, now I’m a mom, so of course I’m gonna have the same worries if my child was telling me, “Oh, I’m bleeding,”

And it’s not, you know, her time of the month, for example. I would have freaked out. Isn’t it sad that women have to survive abuse and on top of that become gatekeepers to basically continue that abuse on their children? ‘Cause if they don’t… You know, we don’t know what was potentially, you know,

Going to happen to your mother. Everybody should be feminist. And the feminism is caring about wanting an equal world, as simple as that, for everybody breathing on this planet. That’s as simple as that. And we can’t say, you know, we can’t pick and choose. Because if it wasn’t for the previous generation

Fighting for women’s rights, we couldn’t have bank accounts. Now we have, you know, digital banks thanks to them. We have to fight now so children of next generation do not have to be raped, do not have to be sold to forced marriages, as simple as that.

And we have to, it’s our moral duty, it’s our human duty. Equality means equal for all. This is one of the biggest things that I say to people, ’cause they’ll go, “Ah, are you a rad feminist?” And I’m like, “No.” Like, the reality is that equal for all

Means we all stand on the same level playing field, everybody, and we are all entitled to those basic human rights. And one of those we’ve lost is the ability to stand up and go, “I’m comfortable with who I am and I love who I am. Thank you.” I feel like feminism has become

A bit of a toxic term in itself. Yes, absolutely. And derogatory. It really has. Like, I will… In some context I’m proud to say I’m a feminist, and others I’m like, “Not really.” And it’s because you can’t be a feminist who wants, you know, to go for the highest role and not care

About women being sexually mutilated. In fact, I think rape has only been classified as a war crime in 2008, after everything else. And in every nation, whenever, whether it’s Bosnia, whether it’s Rwanda, whether it’s every, it’s happening everywhere around the world, women are always raped and threatened with rape,

And even men are raped, because it’s the worst thing you could do to somebody. So- Demoralising them as a human being. It’s dehumanising them, isn’t it? It’s using them and discarding them at will. I do think that we need to go a little bit step further when we are challenging authorities

Or professionals when it comes to culture. They’re always like, “Oh, this is a culture thing, so let’s save the child,” as if culture in itself is something that’s fixed and cannot be touched and cannot be altered. I’m not talking about belief systems, ’cause there’s loads of harmful practices

That are linked to certain belief systems. And what we’re doing, also tell them, “Don’t just feel disempowered because you think that’s a culture thing.” That’s what let down Victoria Climbie. That’s what let down the girls in the Rochdale situation. This is why so many kids are being radicalised

And there’s all this harmful stuff that’s happening. And I think when these things are happening, we can’t really say, “Oh, it’s their culture, it’s…” No, no, no, it’s not. Culture is food, culture is the music we listen to, culture is the clothing we wear, the beautiful things. Culture cannot be abuse.

And if we have the language so wrong and label abuse as culture, then obviously we will continue failing women and girls. I think professionals see it as, “Well, that’s something that’s happening only in that part of the world.” The world’s global. Everyone’s here. Everyone’s here. Our cultures are mixing.

I don’t have the exact same culture as my parents is what I’m trying to say, not just language. I agree. Being culturally sensitive. When I hear that, I freak out because you are neglecting what is a crime. Your law says that is a crime,

So how can you be culturally sensitive about a crime? Regardless of culture, colour, race, sex, we’re all humans and we deserve basic human rights. Absolutely. I think as a mother of a daughter, especially one that has experienced so much trauma just for being a woman… For example, FGM,

One of the first things I heard about it, because we call it ….., it was, you know, “You’re becoming a woman,” that there was something that was a part of you that was so disgusting that it has to be removed, and you can live happily without it, you become a woman.

So I thought, “Okay,” you know, not knowing what it was. But then when you find out, you are left with that trauma, you can’t question it. You can’t even begin… I was six years old, but you couldn’t even question it. You knew how horrible it was, you knew that you bled,

You knew that you’re in pain, you’re in agony, but everyone around you is smiling, acting like nothing has happened. So you think, “Oh, okay-” “It’s a process. It must be normal.” “It’s part of the process. It must be normal.” I took my child out of my community completely, not because I dislike

Or wanna distance myself from my community, but I needed to heal. I needed to heal and reprogram my mind so that I am able to be the best mother that I can possibly be for my daughter. And I taught her a lot. Maybe most people would think,

“Oh, that’s not really for her age.” I’m sorry, but kids at the age of six are being sexually assaulted. I absolutely agree with that, but it takes a very long time. It does. It does, yeah. I had to break away from my entire world and come to the Midlands with my child.

And my children don’t have their aunties and uncles; that’s so difficult. I had to isolate myself to get away from all that, so then change the narrative for the next generation. If you’re in a sick environment, the children being in that sick environment, they would never be the way they should be.

So by taking them away from that, you’ve enabled them. So although it’s difficult, as they say, nothing worth having comes easy. And you might not see the benefits of that, but generations to come will. Oh, I absolutely see the benefits now in my children.

They got their own free will to do what they please, to fall in love with who they want to, and that’s the- Which is a basic human right. Yeah, absolutely. You just took that right outta my mouth. It’s a basic human right to fall in love.

Haven’t you felt that since you’ve become a mom, you feel more vulnerable as a woman? [Shamsa] No, I feel more powerful than I have ever felt in my life. [Natasha] I feel empowered. Why do you feel that? Why have you said that? I said that because..

I don’t know if it’s just something that comes with age. As you get older, you’re just more conscious of things. But since I’ve become a mother, I’m just so much more aware of looks and situations, going out at certain times, buses. I just analyse. To protect yourself. Yes.

I am more aware of protecting myself for my children. I I see danger everywhere, everywhere, even- I mean, you’re just heightened. It becomes heightened, it’s the- When I had my daughter, I’m gonna just take it back a little bit, I actually felt ashamed that I was raped

And I felt ashamed within the community that I was in, because they made me feel sham that I was raped and had a rape child. And that’s the term that they would use. But I feel more empowered. I feel like I would need to stand up taller

And taller every single day to give my daughter a voice, because my daughter’s got special needs. From that rape, he passed on a virus and he ruined my daughter’s development. And I turned anger into passion. It gives me a double voice and a double empowerment to talk about the things

That we need to talk about, which we’re all here for. And with my son as well. My son was 14 when he first read one of my articles in the newspaper. And I tried to keep that away from him. I didn’t want him to know that his mom got raped.

I tried to protect him. Mollycoddled him and put the curtain around his eyes. But he read it, he went and he read it, and he came back and he said, “I’m so proud of you.” This is what I mean. You need to share your life. And the hug he gave me-

Experiences with children. Yes. It changed the way that I was trying to protect him. And I thought, “No, I’m opening the doors up to him because…” He’s 21 now and he’s a good lad. He’s a good lad. The way he sees life is the way that… I’ve given him that freedom to choose,

But he’s got equality through his eyes all the time. And that’s what we need to change. The one thing parents really teach their children to be is happy. Yes. Because I didn’t even know what that word meant. Absolutely. I think so. I help return British citizens from Somalia,

Especially those that are going through forced marriage, being institutionalised, child marriage, FGM, honour-based violence, or gender-based violence, and these are British citizens. Every single case I have had, whether it is a minor, young boy or a girl, or, you know, a young woman, the question is…

If they are an adult and she’s a female, the question is always: “But why could she not leave?”‘ I’m like, “What?” “Why could she not leave? Why doesn’t she just ask her mom for her passport?” “Like, it’s not that easy. And you’re telling me you are trained on… What are you trained on?

Why are you in that office?” Nothing has been made easy for this woman. I think they have a good intention. In terms of how they wanna approach it, you know, it’s all good, but it’s the execution. It’s lack of professional curiosity. So the day I ran into a police station and I said,

“I need help. I want a no molestation order,” I dunno how I thought I was gonna wander home afterwards, considering I wasn’t allowed to be out and he would’ve been looking for me. But the guy behind the computer, he just looked at me and he said, “Natasha, is there anything else?”

And it all came out, everything. And had he not, I don’t know what the consequences of that day may have been. And I don’t know if I would have left a week later. I might have been dead a week later, I don’t really know. He came close a fair few times. The real…

You know, we need to get professionals. Like, you can’t walk up to somebody and say, “Are being abused?” I would’ve turned around every single time and said, “I’m absolutely fine. Thank you. I’m fine.” But just, “Are you okay? You know where I am if you need anything,” you know, asking that question.

I always say to the professionals that I train, “Gut feeling, gut feeling. Hone your gut feeling. If something doesn’t seem quite right, make sure you check in with them.” I can resonate with that, because when I was… I was missing for a year. I was out of the country for a year.

They took me over there to Bangladesh, got me forced into marriage. They actually wanted to keep me there when I got pregnant. They actually wanted to give my passport to the husband so then I could have the baby there and then bring him back,

But I fell sick and I had to come back to the UK. And it’s exactly that. No one questions it. School didn’t say, “Where has this family of 10 gone?” And when I did go to the doctors through, ’cause I decided to keep my baby, doctors didn’t ask like, “You’re just barely 16.”

That’s absolutely crazy. “Like, what’s going on here?” You know, nobody asked. And, just, I felt more isolated and like nobody cared. And it’s, similar to you, was like when I did have… I did take an overdose to kill myself because I couldn’t keep up with all the traumas that was coming.

And there was this one nurse… It’s like when my family went home and I’d stay there ’cause I needed to be put on the drip, she said, “You want an abortion, don’t you? I can tell that you just, you’re not right.” And I felt like, “Oh my god, she’s an angel.

After a year of abuse, after abuse, after abuse, I felt like she cared. That one person said, “Are you okay?” and that felt like a million people saying, “Are you okay?” all in one. And I felt valued then. And I felt like, “Oh, my gosh, I need to, I need to start speaking.”

I could have been saved. And people say to me now… One of the most common questions on the LADbible interview that I did was, “Why is she not charging her parents? Why are they still free? Why are the police not doing something?”

And it’s a case of at that time I was too scared, I was a child, I was too frightened, and I didn’t know I could get the help. And we are taught, in our communities, that the police are bad. “Don’t go to the police, they won’t help. You don’t matter.”

So you believe it. You believe what you’re told. But isn’t it great that one question can change a life? And this is exactly why. One question only. Which you can show to anybody. I was desperate for someone to say, “What’s happened? What’s going on?”

I used to sit in the back of the classroom crying. No one said, “What’s going on?” I was the same. I was desperate for one person. I knew it was never gonna come from my family, so I wanted somebody else, whether it was members of the community, my friends.

But my friends didn’t know because I would have to tell them. But then, again, it’s this whole thing about being believed. What do you want me to do, come in beaten, scraped, bleeding until you believe me? Absolutely not. That’s why a lot of victims don’t speak up,

Because they’re scared of not being believed. Absolutely. I’ve been called a liar. I don’t care, it’s just one of those things. That’s why I say I stand in my truth. Me too, I don’t careBut there’s six of us, six of us saying, “Ask someone. We are asking people.”

But there’s probably 6 million people out there, there’s probably 6,000, 600,000, however many they are, and if all of them ask the one question, “Do you need help? What can I do for you?” Imagine the impact that would create. A massive impact. A lot of young women, especially young women,

Don’t go out and seek charities. I never even knew Refuge existed until the day I Googled them and I found the National Domestic Abuse Helpline. And I phoned the woman and I kind of expected that SWAT were going to swoop down by helicopter to my house, steal my children, and run away,

’cause he told me nobody would believe me, the police were evil, I was a dreadful mother, et cetera, et cetera. And the woman I spoke to saved my life. And she didn’t go to me, “You’re being abused and you need to leave.” She was like, “Natasha, do you think what’s happening to you

Is acceptable?” And I remember in that moment going- That’s a good question. Yeah, that is. “No.” And, you know, and she taught me through how to book an appointment at the police station. And so I phoned 101, and all the time panicking, looking out the window. I can remember that pit-of-my-stomach fear.

It is safe to assume, pretty much, the work of training them is down to us. Unfortunately we have to exist. I would really love to be a fashion designer or something else, not this. Wouldn’t we all? That would be nice, yeah. I think being born into our cultures,

You have one personality for home and you have a different personality for outside of home. And the two can never blend because your life is very different on the outside to the inside. I think for me, when I was younger I wasn’t reserved, although I was continuously experiencing a lot of trauma.

I wasn’t reserved, I was seen as a troublemaker, bad breed, you know, call it whatever you want. But everyone thought I was so troubled because I didn’t fit their version of Shamsa. And when other people… So, for example, for teachers, they would never look at me and think, “Oh, something’s going on,”

They would just think, you know, spoiled little brat or, you know, “You’re not taking advantage of the opportunities that you have,” but actually I was being beaten to learn mathematics, to learn how to read. Children are products, right? For most families or societies, they see girl children as something

They can buy and sell. And that’s exactly what’s happened to my mom. They trafficked my mother aged three or, you know, baby, two, changed her identity, took her to a completely different country for her to be a farm slave. And then she grew up being raped by this man

Who purchased her with her mother for years and years, gave birth to a kid, you know, I might have a half sibling somewhere out there, and then basically fled only for her to be, again, forced into another marriage as a kid and be sold, because she was a transactional item for the community

She lived in. Children in this country, in Northern Ireland, which is part of the Great Britain, are very vulnerable and at risk. You know, children that are trafficked, girls can be sold time and time and time again; whereas a boy doesn’t hold value, they’re used a couple of times and disposed of, virtually.

So they’re commodities, they are seen as something that they’re going to trade with. What you both said in itself is a trauma response, because if you’re one way at home and then a different way; the children who are really well behaved at school and then when they come home and they’re naughty,

That’s ’cause home is their safe space and they’re not masking. I was about to say my daughter was absolutely fantastic at masking and she would come home and let it all out. And we had years and years and years of it. My daughter, at the school gate,

May come out and be like, “Hi, mom!” you know, at five, or if he was there, she’d be like, “Hi.” It’s very subtle things that people who know… School teachers are an amazing resource to us. They spend more time during the week with our children than we do.

And if they pick up on something, there needs to be somewhere for them to go and somebody for them to speak to. A sudden change in behavior. Absolutely. Absolutely. My behavior changed ’cause that’s… At home, before I even went to Bangladesh, there was a lot of domestic violence between my parents.

So at home I’m like a mouse, but in school I was very much so, very loud, ’cause that’s the way that I expressed it. But then I started bunking off school. So the school started to think, right, “Where is she? She’s not in half the time.”

I used to forge the letters from my parents saying, “Oh, she’s gotta go here, she’s gotta go there. She’s got aid me here and there,” and that kind of thing. But then I started to withdraw and withdraw and withdraw even more. And when I did go through the trauma, out for a year,

And when I came back I clung onto anyone who could save me. I’m married to a feminist, right, and he’s an advocate and activist against all forms of violence against women and girls, which surprises some men who are sexist sometimes,” and he will say, “Hold on mate. No, no.

Rephrase what you just said.” And it really helps. We can’t leave women’s rights just for women. I don’t want my rights to be defended only by women and girl children. I’m sorry, I want men to support us. ‘Cause if you do have that… My husband made a very simple point

Which actually made me think a lot. He said, “I genuinely don’t understand men who control their wives or girlfriends, their partners, because,” he said, “I know for a fact you are one of the most powerful women in this country, you wake up every morning, yet you choose to be with me.

Isn’t that empowering? Doesn’t that make me a better man that I’m not controlling? And they’re missing out.” I do feel sad a little bit when it comes to the topic of men ’cause I deal with honour-based violence and young men and when they are going through such a hard situation

Where I would be breaking down. And I had a young boy who was 18 years old, he said, “Sham, I want to cry but I know I can’t.” This is why suicide ratesAnd I said, “Why?” are higher in men. Absolutely. And I said, “Why?” He goes, “Because I’m a man.”

I said to him, “Listen, yeah? Cry, please, you need it. You need an outlet, otherwise you’re gonna hold it in, hold it in, hold it in, and it’s only going to affect you and your future.” Even the idea of therapy is like, “No, but it’s talking about feelings.”

You should be comfortable talking about feelings. It’s giving them a safe space, a safe space where they’re not going to be judged, where you are not going to give them the impression that what they’re saying is making them feel lesser of a man. I’m blessed to beSo we do care for men.

Able to do that. We love men. We have sons, we have husbands, we have fathers, we have brothers. We love men, but what we will not tolerate is less than we deserve. Injustice. Is being treated poorlyInjustice, yeah. By anybody. Why should we? Absolutely. We’re humans.

It shouldn’t matter whether we are male or female. We have to also work with the perpetrators, you know, because you can’t just tell a woman, “Leave.” And also that man, I know how you guys might feel, but someone… I like to believe in redemption in certain cases. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes

There could be work that can be done with the perpetrators that maybe could… And what’s better than keeping the family together if it’s healthy, if it’s safe to do so, if it’s appropriate? It’s learned behavior.n For example, if a perpetrator has grown up in a home of perpetrators,

They don’t see anything wrong with how they behave; it’s like growing up in a loving home. Some people are habitual offenders. For example, my perpetrator has done it many times before. And, you know, I imagine when he gets out of prison he will probably continue to do it.

But there are people who want to change. And just because they’re male and they have committed that particular crime of domestic abuse does not mean we should write them off from society. I agree with what you’re saying. There are those sort of people that would continue doing what they’re doing.

I mean my father’s an example. He did what he did to me and then years later he abducted my sister. But there are so many people that give me faith in humanity. If we can break the cycle and step forward and make our own path and filter that down to our daughters,

Then we should believe that that’s capable And sons. Exactly. And we have broken the cycle. That’s the equality. The equality is that not only do I want the world to be better for my daughter, I want it to be better for my son. A future when no woman is harmed,

That’s what I want. A future where nobodyNo woman or girl is harmed, or just anyone is harmed. But right now we’re talking about women and girls, so, and they experience the worst of it. I think where… I would like to see a future where female prime ministers, presidents is not a big deal,

It’s just normal part of the life, and that women don’t have to strategise to survive, you know, “If I go from through that street, will I be raped?” or, “If I walk through this alley after the party? Have I had too much to drink? Did someone spike my drink?

Am I going to be raped?” I think a feature where any of these, you know, the strategies that we have to have in our head just to leave the house and get back to our beds safe and sound, that’s the future we want. And if we had that,

I think everybody would be happy. I’d like a world that is a bit more compassionate towards everyone so that a person’s starting point in life doesn’t determine their destination, where there are measures in community and compassion in place to give those people who are at a disadvantage naturally a leg up,

So that everyone has a more playing, you know, even playing field in life. Yeah, for me, I think if the future involved more people asking the question why, that would be perfect. “Why are you crying?” “Why is this man dragging you?” “Why are you, you know, in survival mode?” as we keep using.

That would create such a huge impact because collectively people would be looking out for each other as opposed to being part of the problem, which I always say, “You’re either part of the solution or the problem.” So just that one question, like we keep saying, could make a huge impact. [Warda] Yeah.

So my view of myself has gone from that I’m absolutely worthless and it doesn’t matter if I wake up because I could slip off the edge of the map and no one would even know I was gone to being like, “I want to surround myself with women and men

Who think like me and want change like me and are going to stand knocking at doors until we are heard.” I will wear what I want to be. I will be who I want to be. And I think we need to empower everybody. I hope that my kids grow up

And know that they shouldn’t have to worry about what outside people interpret, that it’s actually about how you feel and how you are carrying yourself and going around the world. So that’s how I’ve evolved. I think for me… Oh my god, my, I… Oh my god, it’s a crazy question because… Wow.

I did not know who I was. I was who my mother thought I was, my father, my brothers, my community. And added with the trauma on top of that, you really, really, really do lose yourself. And I never thought that I would ever find myself again. I didn’t know who Shamsa was,

But I realised I secretly always knew who I was. I am who I am. I am happy and confident; if you don’t like it, hit the road. It is what it is. You know, you’re not gonna like everybody that you come across, but I refuse to lower my standards

Or change myself to fit someone else’s narrative, to fit someone else’s picture. I don’t belong there If I don’t fit, like, you know, just leave it alone. So I’m really proud that now I can say I’m raising a daughter that will never take crap from anybody, or she’ll tell you,

“Do you know who my mom is?” Either way it works. I think I had a really negative relationship with my gender, naturally, ’cause where I grew up they would, you know, weigh young women or children, 16, 17. And the more you weigh, the more money you’re worth.

And that taught me from a very young age, “Ooh, you can’t show an inch of skin, Sema. You have to hide your gender really, really well. Blend in if you want to keep going to the school.” So I didn’t show any parts of my arms or my legs.

You know, I would try to wear always covered clothing until I went to uni. And it is until I went to uni, I actually couldn’t live my gender. But I’m such a girly girl, you know, I like being a woman. And when I went to uni, I just went onto this massive travel

To find my gender and to live like a woman. And I’ve been to all over Europe, to Africa, to Middle East and I acted like a woman. But what I found was every single country I’ve been in, women were facing the exactly same issues I grew up with,

And it wasn’t down to the colour of their skin or their religion. My relationship with my gender and my womanhood became more positive. I think the more you own your womanhood, the more of a community you’ll find. And the sisterhood that I find myself in, it’s amazing, you know,

If you just can go beyond that. For me it’s just overcoming my own personal demons around imposter syndrome. [Shamsa] Oh, yeah. I loveWe have a lot of phone calls about this. That’s why sisterhood is so important. No, honestly, I love walking into these boardrooms where no one looks like me

And to sit in there quietly, and then that little micro expression when I actually speak and they’re like, “Ooh, she knows English. She hasn’t got an accent,” you know, I love it. I’m getting more comfortable in going into these spaces. And I remember there was a time

When I worked in the corporate field where I, you know, I used to wonder, “I really want this job. Maybe if I take my hijab off, I’ll have a better chance of getting it.” Now I don’t compromise on those things. I see the value in what I do

And I don’t need external validation anymore. And the glass ceiling is always gonna be there, we just have to just ignore it. Break it and build it into a platform. Shatter it. Bring more women on, that’s what I did. So over the last year and a half since I’ve been super focused

On getting my message across to the world, my relationship with myself, identifying myself as a woman changed, in the words of Whitney Houston, literally, that I am every woman. I literally understand the power that I hold with the voice, the message. And I, like my peers here, understand that, you know,

We represent you. If you are listening, if you’re a woman, we are your voice, we are the person that maybe you are going to look towards as a pivotal person that’s going to help you change. So I am you, you are me, and there’s no difference.

You may not have suffered in the same way, but I understand your suffering. With, gosh, I didn’t even have an identity. Things started going quite sour when I was like eight, so I didn’t really get to develop anything about my personality.

So for me, I was a walking zombie for a very long time. I was always absorbing negativity ’cause I thought, “Yeah, I’m a sponge, I’m just gonna take it,” because that’s all I knew. So for me, self discovery, and still ongoing self discovery, is very important to me, and that’s what’s changed me.

It’s like, “Right, I’m not gonna give a crap about anybody else now. I’m gonna focus on me. What did that eight-year-old Rubie like to do? Right, I’m gonna go back to my inner child, give her a good hug, heal her, and then bring her along on her pace.”

I’m 41 now and I can say it took a long time to get to where I am today to even stand up and… You know, I’m honoured to be with you guys here, speaking with you all, ’cause I look up to you guys ’cause you’re teaching me too

And you are healing me too right now as well. We can inspire other people to come forward and stand with us. And I’m proud to be Rubie today. And I think we all needed this group. Yes, we do.. So proud of us all. [Rubie] Yeah. What I love about being a woman.

I love being what people don’t expect me to be. I’m very capable and everybody’s always really taken aback. And I used to be quite offended. Like, people would be like, “Oh, you know, is it your dad’s business?” or something like that. And I’d be like, “No.” “Is it your husband’s business?” “No.”

And then now I’m like, “Do you know what? I don’t care. I’m not bothered if that’s what they assumed.” And I’m glad they’re taken aback because maybe next time they will think twice about making such a silly comment. I’m proud to be, you know,

Able to go out and do what I want to do as a woman, to live in a time where people before us really had to fight hard- I’m so grateful. to get us to where we are even now. And I’m proud of all of you and myself

For being a movement for more change, and even more women that I know that aren’t here for being that vehicle to keep pushing forward. We’ve got a legacy behind us of some of the most amazing women, and we are part of that and that’s what makes me proud to be a woman.

I love that. My response to that is a bit of a double-edged sword because what I love about being a, about women is we’re so resilient, but then it’s because of that that we’re often subjugated to so much, because of our resiliency. I do still think that’s the best thing about women.

Their resilience? Yeah. And what I love aboutPain tolerance. What I love about being a woman is being creative, is using all the negative that that we’ve endured, gone through, but we can create something positive out through that. Beautiful. We don’t know our power. We are so powerful. I mean, look at us here.

[Shamsa] That was what I was gonna say, powerful. I think that’s what I like most about being a woman: power. The fact that we’ve been abused as women and girl children for generations, thousands of years, we haven’t gone extinct, it’s not going to happen. We ain’t going nowhere. Here’s the solution.

I think because we are so powerful, we can form a community. Women can form communities anywhere: in the middle of a war with no water, you know? Women can have C-sections without any medicine. Oh my god, that is crazy. Women can wake up, take their four children to school

Even if they are surviving forced marriage, like my mom, modern slavery. Women like my mom, who had zero freedom, can ensure they can have daughters like me. And that’s what I like about being a woman. And I think the more women comes together and speaks about their rights, ’cause it’s our rights,

And brings men on the journey as well, we will have zero issues. And I just love that about women, the sisterhood that we have. And we just need to like hold onto that sisterhood and keep forming a bigger one, and yeah. I think for me is power,

Although in the eyes of other people women might not seem powerful. But I survived FGM, where others have bled. I survived a country that could have killed me, anybody could have killed me. I survived a family that was willing to, didn’t care whether I died or not. I survived rape

Whilst having FGM type three, by the way, so I was sewn together. And on top of that I was beaten. So if I survived all of that and I’m still sat here, that is the most powerful thing in the world. It’s power. All of these women,

All women are survivors, I’m sorry to say, we are survivors, and it is the most beautiful thing ever because I have never seen strength like that. Like, men are strong physically, but women, women’s strength cannot be matched- That’s what they’re scared of. In my opinion. I know that’s what they’re scared of.

So I go by the the quote, you know: “We rise by lifting others.” When you get to a place where you find yourself in a position to help others, always hold your hand out and them with you. Do it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Brilliant. So beautiful.

[Warda] Can we all have a group hug? [Natasha] Make sure we don’t bang heads and knock out. It’s okay, knock me out. [Shamsa] I was the only woman in the world- [Natasha] I’ve gotta drive home, yeah, okay? I can’t have another concussion. I can’t risk it.