Anna McNuff is an adventurer, speaker, author and mischief maker. Named by The Guardian as one of the top female adventurers of our time, Condé Nast Traveller included her in a list of the 50 most influential travellers in the world. She is also the UK ambassador for Girl Guiding. Anna’s major journeys include cycling a beautiful pink bicycle through each and every state of the USA, running the length of New Zealand, and exploring the peaks and passes of The Andes mountains – a journey in which she ascended the equivalent to eleven times the height of Everest on a bicycle. In the summer of 2019, she set off on her most ambitious adventure yet – a 2,300+ mile (90 marathon) run through Britain… in her bare feet. Starting in the Shetland Islands and ending five months later in London, she weaved her way along rugged coastlines, through small villages, across moors, along beaches, over farmland and even pitter pattered down the odd picturesque A-road too. All the way along, she gave talks to the young women of Britain about taking on challenges of their own. Much closer to home, Anna has also spent a month cycling across Europe directed entirely by social media, run the length of Hadrian’s wall dressed as a Roman Soldier, and the length of the Jurassic Coast, dressed as a dinosaur. As you do. She can often be found writing in a local café in her home city of Gloucester, and will never turn down a slice of lemon meringue pie. Show notes
• What Anna enjoys doing
• Why she loves doing big challenges
• The Barefoot Britain Challenge 2019
• How 50 barefoot marathons turned into 100…
• Building awareness for the Girl Guiding
• Preparing her feet for the run
• Running the London Marathon April 2019 – 26.2 miles
• Dealing with other people’s opinions about you
• Why you know what you are capable off
• Asking for help…
• Starting the challenge in the Shetland Islands
• Having a kit bag called “Barry Buttercup”
• Dealing with the logistics and how challenging it was
• Making it 1000 miles….
• Getting a small cut in her foot
• Homeless?
• Looking for a Doctor who could help!
• Being off her feet for 2 weeks
• Getting running coaching to help minimise injury
• The Running Lab – London
• Dealing with injury
• Trigger Point Therapy
• Sadness
• Defaulting to happiness
• Pink hair and maintaining it!!!
• Making sacrifices?
• Choosing happiness
• Managing a relationship while doing adventure
• Trying to have babies!!
• Let’s talk about periods and moon cups
• Finishing Barefoot Britain in London and moving the finish date
• Running multiple marathons on running tracks around London
• Book update!
• Llama Drama…. coming out in July!
• New Kids book – 100 Adventures to Have Before You Grow Up
• Advice for self publishing your own books
• The Creative Pen Podcast
• Final words of advice to motivate and inspire you.
Social Media Website www.annamcnuff.com (https://www.annamcnuff.com) Instagram @annamcnuff (https://www.instagram.com/annamcnuff/) Facebook @AMcNuff (https://www.facebook.com/AMcNuff/) Twitter @AnnaMcNuff (https://twitter.com/AnnaMcNuff)
Tribe I’m so excited that we are catching up with the one and only the legend that is Anna mcnuff so Anna has been on the podcast a couple of times before to talk more about her amazing life and the different challenges that she’s done from um running the T Ro
Trail in New Zealand for racing in the katm do coast to coast and various other challenges from cycl Europe and pyly in the Andes but Anna it is amazing to have you back on the tough girl podcast extra oh thank you I absolutely love coming to chat to you honestly and your whole
Tribe are amazing as well so it’s a pleasure thank you for having me back again now Anna for those who haven’t listened to the first couple of episodes and may not have heard of you I’d love for you just to give everyone just you know tell me just a little bit more
About you and your background yeah I mean I lead a very strange life I basically decided that I enjoy going off and doing uh adventures and travels but using my human body and no no Motors and stuff like that so I’ve done a big cycle through America through every state of
America run the length of New Zealand cycle through South America so I normally go away do a big six-month adventure and then come back and talk and write write books and give talks about it um and that has been effectively the last seven years of my
Life now which is crazy to think it’s been that long let’s talk about one of your biggest challenges today birth foot Britain tell everybody just a little bit more about what Barefoot Britain is where the idea came from and yeah oh it’s Madness you know what Sarah because
I finished it like what I finished in November so that’s a fair few months ago now and it feels like this strange dream um but yes I did run attempted to run the distance of a 100 marathons from the Shetland Islands right off the North
Coast of Scotland and I had to Google a lot where the Shetland Islands were um and then I ended five and a half months later in London and I ran the most ridiculous Wiggly route through Great Britain you could possibly imagine and it it was I did it for girl guiding
Because I’m an ambassador for girl guiding and the idea behind it was I’m I know it sounds mad I fully hold my hands up and say why on Earth are you going to try and run 2,600 miles with no shoes on um but to put it in context because i’
Done all those R long runs before the whole thing that I was talking to the young girls about as I went along was I was saying to them girls you got to take on things where you you feel you’re in over your head and you all you are just
On the cusp of thinking I can’t do this and you want to just turn and run in the other direction and I thought if I do a run in my trainers because all challenges are relative for me that that wasn’t it just wasn’t enough of a challenge and I thought I could probably
Do it you know it would be ugly and messy but I thought I could probably do it so I just had a crazy thought of how I could make it harder and the answer my brain was why don’t you do it with no shoes on I love why your brain takes you
Well the thing is as well is originally it started as I had the crazy idea that I was going to try and do about half the distance which was um 50 Barefoot marathons and then I was having coffee with my boyfriend one morning and I I I
Sort of I you know the first time you verbalize your crazy challenge idea I said I think I’m going to try and do this run 50 me foot marathons and he just took a sip of his coffee and went I like it and I said but um I think 100
Sounds better and that was it I just thought oh gosh I can’t I’ve got to do a 100 now haven’t I thanks for that so that’s all his fault are we too Fair does actually sound better I know that was the thing as well
And I S you know what one the main aims for the Run being completely honest was I was trying to get uh girl guiding they need new volunteers and they need awareness and I thought actually if I do push it to 100 then you’re right it does
Sound better to someone in the press or whatever so I’m I’m always one to say don’t do things for other people but at this point I thought if I’m going for it I’m only doing this once I’m never going to do a Barefoot run ever again let’s go
All in and go massive so let’s talk about your feet your beautiful feet I’ve seen lots of photos of them as I know lots of people around the world have but minimalist running like you it’s not something you can just go out I presume that there was um you know a a buildup
To getting your feet ready and building up like The Souls of your feet could you just share maybe a little bit more about how you prepared your feet for this because it wasn’t just uh you hadn’t done any training on on your feet or I
Hope not anyway but yeah talk to us a little bit more about your feet yeah and you’re so you’re so right you can’t just go out and do it and I think I I definitely need to be clear that I’m not someone who runs around I’m not like a
Barefoot evangelist you know there are I I suddenly learned through this run that there is this whole network and tribe of barefoot Runners around the world and they all very excited about this I’m I’m not one of those kind of people so I would you know people listening to this
Whatever they run in I was kind of I was just like that I was just running around in my trainers like a like a normal person and um and I thought right I think this is quite serious but I also thought I know that human bodies are
Amazing and I know that on all the past Adventures what I’ve learned is that you think you know what your body can do but you actually have no idea until you try and and so I thought I’m pretty sure if if I carefully nudge my body towards a
Barefoot running style and to gradually take it down to Bare Feet I don’t think it’s going to be easy but that’s the whole point and I think it can do it so um I think it did help that I’d spent about um I’d spent about 3 years already
In Minimalist Shoes just because I like the I like the feel of them for me um they they make me feel just just my running Styles bit better and even walking around everyday life I just enjoy not having like support and wedges under my feet so so I think that helped
But that said it still took me then a year and a half to transition down to being running around Barefoot and that was I did like three six Monon phases so I did six months running around in Minimalist Shoes um and that that’s like your Vivo Barefoot or your Vibrams those
Kind of ones the funny monkey shoes um and then I did uh six months in these weird Skinner socks things that um are kind of they look like a wets suit boot but they’ve got a little rubber bottom so they’re they’re just a little bit better than being completely Barefoot
And then I did 6 months completely Barefoot and I would just gradually like on my run I might do you if I’m doing a eight mile run I might do six miles in my Skinner socks and then for the last two miles take my shoes take them off
Completely and be running Barefoot so it was really was a really gradual transition over a year and a half and most times when I went out running I went out running looking for the affirmation that that I could do the adventure and I always came back without
It because every r there was always some difficulty or new challenge and I’d never come back from a run and think oh yeah this is going to be easy I’d come back and go okay I still think it’s possible but this is going to be really
Hard but I just I just kept going tell us about the London Marathon because you you ended up running the London Marathon Barefoot and I believe that that was the longest distance that You’ done Barefoot at that point yeah good knowledge Sarah you know your stuff I mean you always
Know your stuff but um yeah that was and that was the scariest point because I want you to imagine I was starting the run in the June and I’ve said to the whole world oh I’m going to be doing the 2,600 miles with no shoes on and then
I’m stood on the start line of the London marathon and all right that’s one Marathon I’ve got to run without shoes on but it was the furthest I I’d ever run without shoes on to at that point in the April so I was still a couple of
Months out from starting the run and I think I’d run something like 17 miles on it was on a beautiful bike trail actually in Florida i’ done it so it wasn’t difficult surface um it was controlled so I just thought what on Earth is going to happen on this
Marathon when I stood on the start line I thought are my feet literally going to you know blister at 17 miles in am I going to be in pain and have to stop and you know and and also standing on the start line with everyone around you
Looking at your feet questioning you and and asking you whether you can do it and you’re thinking I don’t even know if I can do it and suddenly I’m surrounded by all these people asking me um and so I was so nervous because I thought this could go really wrong but that that
Marathon just showed me I just remember as I you know I got to 17 miles and I thought right okay I’ve never gone beyond this now and I was expecting everything to fall apart and yeah I was really tired you know it’s a marathon your it’s hard but I just suddenly
Started to feel like I think I’m going to do this and then I just thought I feel pretty amazing and I just remember the last section that beautiful red tarmac on the m and I looked down at my feet and they were just so grubby from
The London streets and I just looked up at bu and Palace and I just felt this was such an amazing wave of you know I had no idea I could do that and that feeling of having your body’s just completely surprised you and i’ put in
The hard work and i’ done the training and suddenly my body just took over I did what I needed to do and I got to the finish line and I just thought okay this is going to be hard but I think it’s possible to do the the Barefoot Britain
Run I just want to go back to to um you know announcing it to the whole world putting yourself out there I’m going to do this big big challenge um running the length of Great Britain completely Barefoot you’re putting it out there and obviously people’s
Opinions um about you know whe is this a good idea or is this a bad idea and what that their thoughts on it how do you deal with the outside pressure or the outside opinions um from other people who maybe don’t know you don’t know your your mindset don’t know your your
Background don’t know your history like how do you handle that yeah that’s a really good question because there are a lot of keyboard Warriors out there and I think you just have to repeatedly remind yourself whatever you’re doing that there is no other person in the world
That knows you and your body better than you do that is that is a fact and I think quite often we we look to other people for for you know that affirmation of of telling us we can do something when actually that’s all going to come
From within us and of course no one knows your body better than you like you have lived in it since you were born you know and and I think we need to remind ourselves of that because during the Le lead up to the run it was so frustrating
Because I did I would just Bas you just sign yourself up for six months of anxiety of sleepless nights of thinking is this going to go completely wrong am I about to you know effectively waste a year and a half of preparation of my life all this energy so much pressure I
Was putting on myself you know the girl guiding was all relying on me and everything and and I I did I got you know as much as I got lovely messages on on social media you of course get the ones I mean my favorite one was from
This guy who um who’s who he was like wrote me this really long message saying I’m a medical professional and I need to let you know that your feet are not equipped to cope with this um you have different skin to you know African runners or people who might have
Naturally been Barefoot their whole life you’ve been in shoes I just want to let you know that you’re you’re not going to do this you’re actually going to damage yourself and I don’t think it’s a good idea and I’m just trying to help you out
By letting you know this and I was so angry because I thought I I I would never do that to someone else and but then from that just comes this strength I just thought watch me you know and I don’t even if I don’t do it that’s
That’s that’s okay and I’m still not going to feel bad about it because I’m going to try and and whatever happens whether I succeed or whether I fail I just try to remind myself that whoever’s messaging me or whoever’s writing whatever on you know on the internet
They don’t know me and they don’t they don’t know my my feet and what I’m capable of and I don’t even know what I’m capable of so how on Earth can a stranger know that so I do think it just takes a little bit of repetition and reminding yourself that no one knows
What you’re capable of more than you do and that’s a once you get that into your head it can be a very power powerful thing even though it’s scary so take us to the Shetland Islands take us to the start of this challenge like I mean what
Was it like and how is it going to work um logistically um I believe you had um your friend Barry was that right I don’t know that’s the right word I’ll tell you all about Barry the bag well the first thing is so I had I decided that of the
Things I’m terrible at is asking for help so on this challenge I thought what can I do to try and um open up that side of of me and and force me to ask for help and it was a very public Adventure very social media heavy anyway but I
Thought right well I don’t want to have a support crew because that changes the dynamic of the adventure for me it’s as much about making sure I chat to people and kind of immersed in my beautiful country as it is about the run so I thought if I have a support crew that
Kind of cuts off from from a lot of those interactions so I I came up with the idea that I would have a kit bag uh which ended up his yellow massive yellow kit bag called Barry Buttercup we named him via social media everyone voted and uh that Barry would get passed along
Like a giant baton as I ran between the people I was staying with between the girl guiding Community between Runners that were coming out to join me and so I mean the logistics of that was just next level as well but it meant that sometimes Barry got in a bit of a fix
And I’d have to parcel force him ahead for a week and then run with a few days worth of stuff on my back um but yeah so me and Barry went up to the Shetland Islands but I got to the end of my parents driveway in Southwest London
Getting ready to go up to make the journey basically a two-day Journey up to the Shetland Islands because I was going by train and then on a plane and um and I got to the end of my drive my parents driveway and I had to stop and
Google do I need my passport for the Shetland Island and I felt so stupid but I thought well actually I don’t know because they it’s basically they’re in they used to belong to Norway so they’re they’re in line with Norway and they’re also in line with Greenland like that is
How far north the Shetland Islands are and so I Googled it and found I didn’t but I grabbed my passport anyway um and I knew it was going to be a different place because a week before I’d left I’d got put in touch with BBC Shetland
Wanting to do a piece on me and I’d been full like London girl on the phone I’d called them up and I’d said hi yeah great so could we schedule something in I’m talking at a million miles an hour and I’m asking them about they want to talk about
And and then there was just this voice on the other end of the line that just went oh no where did I put that email oh yes oh okay I’ll get back to you on Wednesday about that Anna lovely take care now and I was just like right I
Think the place of life is going to be a bit more chilled in the Shetland Islands oh my God absolutely absolutely starting the run you’re there in the Shetland Islands Barefoot ready to crack on with these 2352 miles what are you feeling what’s going through your head well I
Think it helped you know that it was somewhere so different that I’d never been before because I don’t know how many people listening have been to the Shetland Islands but because it is still part of Britain you’re probably more likely to hop on a plane and go further
A field than you are to go up there um but it is like the Caribbean crossed with the Scottish Highlands like it is unbelievably beautiful and also while I was there there were um you know Shetland ponies which is so so small anyway but they were having fos so these
Things were in the fields which were like the size of a dog but they were a horse but they were dog size oh my gosh so I think it helped that there was so much new stuff to kind of distract me from the start of the run but the
Feeling of it I was actually I was nervous but I was so relieved to be there because as is the case with any great plan you have in life there are so many times where you could turn around and cancel it or back out because you
Feel so nervous that you’re not going to be able to do it and I was just so delighted that that hadn’t happened and that I was there and I was going to start this thing and goodness knows what was going to happen from that point on
But the main thing was that I was there and I was starting it and and the start was so funny you know I was at the most Northerly house in Britain a place called score um where there’s just one house there in a beach and there was
Just a crowd of about six people just you know okay here we go and I do a big video 2,600 miles in my bare feet and then there’s just a little patter of you know which was such a contrast to the end of the run where there were
Hundreds of people and press everywhere so um it was a beautiful way to start it I’d love to know more about the challenges that you had to face and overcome where there some which were expected I mean your feet did how do they cope with the surface what would
Happen if you stepped on glass or cut your foot um so those obviously things are challenges that You’ probably thought about and processed and figured out how to deal with it but were there any ches that came up which you were like whoa did not expect this to happen
I think the logistics was one challenge that I hadn’t really I hadn’t comprehended how exhausting that would be and I i’ done it all to myself because so if if you imagine like the barefit Britain cake the layers of that cake were there’s Barry the bag that’s
Got to get passed along I was giving three to five girl guiding talks every week so I had to make sure I was at a certain place at a certain time for them and then also had to have the energy once I’d run 20 odd miles in a day to go
And chat to these girls which was just a treat of course and sometimes it was five girls in a village hall and other times it was 500 of them screaming in a theater in bath which was just brilliant um so yeah you’ve got Barry the bag you
Got girl guiding you’ve I had open running stages so I had 86 open running stages where local Runners had signed up to come and run with me um and so you’ve got all that going on and also I was making a a documentary series on YouTube
So I I was putting up little mini episodes on YouTube as I went along and there so there was all of that going on and thankfully I made the decision to actually um I hired a freelancer called Abby who was amazing who did she worked part-time and did as much of the
Logistics for me as she physically could um and so that was a huge relief but still even that even with someone helping me out and she was based on laptop in shelham it was still the like I woke up in the morning and it was just like switch on straight away ping ping
Ping ping okay where have I got to be today who have I got to speak to I need to text my host that I’m staying with tonight I need to thank the one from last night um I need to do a social media post and all of that so um I think
The the logistics of it were way more of a challenge than I thought um and so and and that just became Relentless over five and a half months but that said it was the only reason why the Run was such a success and why it was such so able to
Reach so many people and get so many people out running and um get so many girls interested in adventure was because of that that level of challenge with what was going on um so yeah it was definitely Logistics that were the biggest beast in the end yeah and you
Did suffer a little bit of um a foot injury I believe that you were like looking for a doctor who would like understand like hey I am actually an ultra Runner doing this not someone to sort of berate you and tell you that you can’t carry on um tell us more about you
Know what happened there with that challenge I was in your neck of the woods wouldn’t I Sarah yeah very close it was so lovely when you sent me a message being like you’re probably okay but if you need anyone I’m here I’m not too far away from you it was lovely uh
Yeah so I’d made it about a th000 miles and um I I mean I casually say I’d made it a th000 miles I just want to be clear as well that I had a meltdown after 80 miles and because my feet were so sore
And it was so hard and I thought God I just need to give up at this point so I was breaking things down into a couple of hundred mile chunks so I thought okay I just need to make it a couple more hundred miles I just to make it a couple
More hundred miles and then eventually I got to 1,000 miles and everything just like got into sync like I was getting loads of media coverage I’ve been in the times I was on ITV News the logistics were slotting into place we were like a well oiled machine my body had finally
Got used to it was still hard but running those distances every day and then I picked up the tiniest little cut in um um I I was on the way into Sheffield actually and it was fine for a couple of days and it must must have
Been maybe 2 mm in width this little cut and but it went quite deep and I think it was from just a piece of glass or something that I picked out straight away but the it I’d had so many Cuts before that I wasn’t really worried
About it you know I I would have a bit of a sore foot but then it take a few days or sometimes 10 days but it would heal up and carry on and you know all that but this one basically one night it just blew up like a balloon and I
Remember just going to bed and thinking something about this feels really different and my foot was just in waves of like pain and I woke up the following morning and I couldn’t I was staying with a host and their kid was saying can we go run around out the front and I I
Couldn’t even put any weight on my foot and um at that point it just it dawned on me that I I had a foot infection and so I went to the hospital um because I was so embarrassed so of course I got no support crew Barry the bags gone ahead
And um I’m just stood there by the side of the street thinking I can’t run I’m supposed to be running but I can’t run so I just I went and got on a bus and went to the hospital and um and at this point I’m getting recognized as well cuz
I got bright pink hair so everyone’s saying to me oh aren’t you that bare fooot Runner and I’m going yeah and they’re like what what are you doing standing at the bus stop and I’m thinking oh this is just so embarrass you can imagine like I was
Thinking God don’t like call out the press and be like she’s getting the bus the whole way I was like I’ll get to the hospital my foot’s messed up and um so I basically waited for ages n and then I was so embarrassed I didn’t even want to
Tell the nurse what I was doing so I kind of just said that I was running around and I had no shoes on and i’ stepped on a piece of glass and du D du and then there was one point where I was in with a nurse and and she was looking
At my foot and and she was deciding what to do with it and she she just said she just looked at me and you could tell you know I’m grubby I’m wearing kit that I havn’t washed I’ve got no shoes on I got dirty feet and she just and she started
Asking me question saying are you from around here Anna and I said oh no no I’m kind of passing through and she said okay okay do you have an address we can send something to and I said oh no not really and then she just paused and
Looked at me and she said are you homeless I said no I’m not homeless but well I said technically I am homeless but I said no I’m doing a Barefoot run and I had to confess to her um but basically after that she effectively slapped a plaster on it and said just
Rest up for a few days and I’m sure it’ll be fine which was not what I needed so I put a tweet out and said any doctors in the Stockport Manchester area that are into running can you help me out and I got put in touch with this guy
Called Adam who said I can come and see you Anna I love what you’re doing I understand it I I know that you need to get back out there as quick as you can but I’ve just I’m training for a 24-hour track Marathon so I’ve got to go and run
30 miles on a running track first and then I’ll come and see you which I just thought yes this is the man I need what a legend what a legend came and saw me gave me anti took one look at my foot and said that is infected
Antibiotics and basically I was I was off my foot for two weeks but in that two weeks I I just I had no idea whether I was going to be able to start running again or whether that was the end of my run at 1,000 miles but gradually I
Managed to sit tight heal my foot up and get back to just running five miles at a time then back up to 6 miles 10 miles back up to 15 and I think it was about a month after that I managed to get back up to running my full mileage days and I
Was just so relieved to be running again Gwen baton a member of the tough girl tribe wants to know has your gate changed like have you had it tested so just almost wants to understand how wearing shoes has changed the way that humans do stuff I know gwin baton do you
Know that I know gwin baton because she’s a rower stock yeah absolutely love Gwyn love both of them they’re wonderful people um has my gate changed yes so I went and had some coaching I’m not really I mean you probably get I’m a bit slap Dash I’m not really one for
Worrying about technique and all that jazz but um I did think what I do need to do is injury because the most important thing is me getting to the end of this injury free apart from my foot cut and so I went and saw this guy
Called Christian who I was going to say he lives under Q Bridge but that makes him sound like a troll he doesn’t he’s got a studio under Q Bridge and it’s called the running lab and basically he puts you on this machine and looks at
Your gate and you you know see you see yourself like a running skeleton and over the course of a year he gave me some exercises to try and it’s a bit like getting me to run like how a swan moves through water and let’s be clear
That I am not graceful like a swan I run like a demented t-rex with like weird T-Rex arms um but the idea is that you kind of Shuffle and glide forwards and you have a very quick Cadence and so you’re not bounced so imagine the way Mo
Farah runs he bounces up and down like there is so much bounce in that um but I was taught to run and I naturally do run more like a you know like you see a Japanese ultra Runner like very quick shuffles just gliding along minim minimal effort for for maximum output
For a distance so I was coached over the course of a year to to try and run in a style that a put the least amount of loading through my hip and knee joints and also in a way that would just minimize the risk of injury and conserve
My energy because I needed to do it day in day out so I was really grateful for that and I was amazed to see I watched the video of me at the start of that year and at the end of the year and he looked at all the loading through my
Joints and I I nailed that he basically said your running technique now is you you can’t be in a better position to do this you know if you get injured that’s what happens but um and the amazing thing is thanks to that other than I had
One day off for a sore C but in 2,300 miles I had no other days off for any muscular injuries which just I think is a testament to how amazing the body is and I mean another M of tough girl tribe wants to know uh Belinda Jane when you
Are injured what s you’ll go to exercise I me when was the last time that you’ve been injured apart from your your sore cal um well you know I’ve been injured lows since finishing the run it’s funny isn’t it you know you go and run thousands of miles and don’t have a
Problem because you’re focused on looking after your body and then you get back to normal life and everything suddenly hurts um I get a lot of I I suffered a lot from Shin flints um so and I find that’s just a lot to do with my tight carves um and what’s my go
Thing I actually do this thing called um trigger point therapy and I think this is the thing about injuries I feel like there are 50 different ways you can treat an injury everything from physio to chiropractors um you know to doing yoga and all of that or or more evasive
Stuff with like um you know ultrasounds and all that but I think sometimes people they try a few things and then they don’t work and so they say that’s it I’m just injured I actually believe there is there will be something to solve your injury it’s just about
Finding what works for you and I found in the past that um I’m Dreadful with physio because I go the Physio and I say yes to all the things they say to me and they all sound wonderful and make lots of sense and then they give me exercises
And I walk out with the full intention of doing my exercises and never do them so um so I know physio don’t work for me so um I do this thing called trigger point therapy which is it’s a little bit like you know when you lie on a golf
Ball or a tennis ball and you release the muscle but it’s just a bit more extreme so you kind of teach yourself to find where the trigger points are for certain muscles on your body and when you feel a tightness or a pulling which or what it feels like it could be an
Injury as as long as you know what you’re doing you you you go oh okay that part of my calf is sore which means the release point is actually around the back of my knee and you basically like jam your thumb or I’ve got this wooden knobble thing into the release point and
You know when you found it because it is excruciating and you kind of want to vomit um and your muscle starts to shake but if you hold it um I I find my muscle will release and then it’s normally sore cuz there’s a bit of inflammation for a
Couple of days but then the injury just disappears and um my boyfriend Jamie used the technique as he ran across America to keep him fit for 5 and a half thousand miles and I used it for Barefoot Britain and I just I find that works because it relies a lot on
Trusting that you know your body and learning as you go along as well so um yeah it’s an amazing woman called I think she’s like called Source Point Bodywork an amazing woman called Sylvia who was on hand on video from California if I got to a point where I had an
Injury that I didn’t wasn’t sure how I could manage and I’d say Silvia I think my Cal really hurts but I’m not sure I don’t want to push on here if it’s the wrong point and she’d just send me a video and say oh hey Anna that’s totally
That’s this release Point here what you need to do is take a fist and squeeze your muscle like a juice box and it’s going to hurt like heck but don’t worry you’re doing the right thing and then it will disappear within 72 hours and it worked every time so um yeah I’m not
Saying that’s going to work for everyone but for me that’s my go-to cuz I I found something that actually works go that’s fascinating absolutely fascinating a member of well quite a few members of the tough girl tribe actually um ended up running with you um throughout be Britain Britain and Vicky Royal Johnson
Wants to know she’d love to hear you talk about happiness in general she ran with you during B at Britain um and you were just so naturally happy enjoying the little things and getting excited about stuff um that other people wouldn’t you basically not clouded by
Doom and Gloom in the world um she goes on to says well I know that you get sad but hearing you talk about how she gets help out of that and whether or not you Embrace sadness for a while then what does she what would you do to get happy
Again yeah that’s a really good question actually because I do um I remember running with Vicki and she had a she had a tough girl buff on as well that day which was brilliant um she was lovely and um I I my default is to try and see
The positive in things and I think I get that from my mom she’s a very like practical positive okay here we go where’s the Silver Lining that said you you can’t deny the fact that sometimes things are crap you know there are days there are bad things that happen there
Are emotions you can’t shove aside and so sometimes you do need to just sit and be with your sadness and I say this me and me and Jamie my boyfriend you know some days you’ll say to me oh you know it’s been rumbling on for a few days and
I’m just a bit miserable and so I just turn to him and I say oh you be miserable I mean if you’re going to be miserable you just be miserable you know get the duve out look after yourself just wallow in it really Embrace that misery and then I find that brings you
Out of it faster but I guess what Vicki said there about getting excited about the little things is I just try and connect and tap back into that little kid that lives within all of us because kids have such a natural sense of awe and wonder about the world you know they
They ask questions without worrying whether it’s a silly question to ask or wondering why they want to know the answer they just ask it because they they think what it just pops into their head and so I just just I try and take that approach and I try and think you
Know what what would a kid think about the scenario or when I had people running with me we always wen’t played on the kids playground because just that little shot of joy of doing something that’s slightly uncomfortable and different um going on a swing or whatever um I think it just it just
Takes you back into the moment and it stops you from worrying too much about what’s going on beyond that moment and I think the other thing is I realized on the run when I would get sad or stressed or frustrated what was actually bothering me wasn’t what was happening in that
Moment so say I’d come across a really dark patch of gravel and it was Agony to go over my brain would suddenly go oh my gosh you’ve hit gravel in the first five miles of this run that means it’s going to be gravel for the rest of the day
That means you’ve now still got 12200 miles left to run of gravel and it’s you’re going to be miserable for 5 months and actually if you stop that train of thought at there’s gravel beneath my feet right now it might change in a mile or two then suddenly
Actually real you’re not worried about what’s happening right now you’re actually worried about what you think might happen in the future which goodness knows what’s going to happen in the future you know a pig could come flying by and wearing a unicorn mask you know you you never know so um yeah I
Think it’s about trying to just work out what am I actually worried about and what is going on right this very second and that helps you get back in the happy moment and I know one of the things that everyone all love especially when the Girl Guides see you is your amazing hair
Because it is so pink and Maddie Frankie wants to know is how do you keep your hair so amazingly pink think on adventures oh my God that’s such a good question well and that is an example of I feel like I’m 35 now and I’m finally
Growing into my own skin I I just I’ve always wanted to dye my hair I’d always wanted to cut it short for ages and I finally did it a few years ago um I’d always wanted to get my nose pierced and I did that recently so um my pink hair
Again that is another thing that I I love it because every time I look in the mirror it just brings me joy it just reminds me that you can’t take life too seriously when you got pink hair can you really um and also kids love it because of
Their imagination and and I do say to them they they H be while my hair’s pink and I say oh I was born with it pink were you not born with pink hair and then they look confused then they might ask their mom and say mom was I born
With pink hair and the mom goes yeah you were it’s brilliant um but um how do I keep it pink on adventures oh it is a nightmare I’ll tell you absolute nightmare um so I basically had to try and get it done at uh because I need it
Done about every three months and I had to try and get it done I think it got it done in Glasgow and exitor but it had to be done when I could be in the town 48 hours before I was leaving because you have to go and have a patch test you
Know this is it but I just thought at one point I was thinking of I just leaving it and letting it all grow out but I I realized that actually my levels of Mojo were directly related to the amount of pink in my hair and so um I
Would just have to on top of all the logistics it was really important to me to go and get my hair reped and I never told the hairdresser what I was doing I just just sat there and um and just chatted about holidays and normal life and walked out the door again with
Bright pink hair very nice I love it I you know I would have 100% thought that you were sort of like do it do it at home yourself or Jamie will be helping to like shave you know like around the back you know keep it all neat and tidy
Um around the back of your head well I think he’s gonna have to in the next few months I think I’m about to buy a set of Clippers I think I’m going to have to trust Jamie to to cut my hair which is just going to be an absolute Act of
Trust but yeah do you know what you can’t get you actually can’t get permanent pink hair dye uh it’s all semi-permanent so that’s why I had to go to salons you know just another boring fact for you there good to know good to know so Lise Jarvis wants to know you’ve
Been on so many Big Adventures with lots of time away from home and she was wondering if you feel like you’ve made sacrifices in other areas of your life to achieve these big Feats I guess the answer is yes but equally sacrifice feels like a um a strange thing to say
Because I’m so grateful for being able to do these adventures and I choose to do them um I guess what comes with that is the fact that I now make a living from doing Adventures or rather I don’t make a living from doing the adventures but from writing and speaking about them
And with that comes a huge amount of hustle and um and anxiety and I mean what’s happening at the moment you know effectively I I run my own business and in a Flash you know three three to six months worth of work just gone up in a
Puff of smoke so there are sacrifices that happen with that I think you can’t have it all and you you give up I guess uh some stability in order to have the freedom to have these Adventures but I think it’s about realizing what is more important to you and and where are you
On that on that spectrum that sliding scale of what you need to feel happy and comfortable but yet what also makes you feel like you’re alive and I think for some people it’s a fantastic thing that they have a normal everyday job and they get Adventure in their weekends or in
Their holidays because they enjoy having that stability and that’s really important to them to be happy and then for other people which are a bit more like me the freedom element and the need for Change and constant input and excitement that is so much more important to me than um than feeling
Steady and safe and comfortable and and so therefore because that’s so important I’m able to to cope with the fact that I could turn around tomorrow and have no source of income um but um I’m trying to find ways and I have done over the last
Few years to be a bit more stable with that um yeah so I guess there are sacrifices but um oh it’s just worth it it’s worth it and um and yeah I miss my my parents and my family and I miss my boyfriend but I just feel like I’m just
I’m just the best version of myself when I’m on an adventure just that freedom and um yeah I just absolutely love it I just feel like me I mean I also remember when we chatted about your big Andy’s Adventure because you ended up missing out on your um on your your brother’s
Wedding and I think your your mom was like the the the sense of reason or basically sort of said look Anna you want to go South America you want to get married you don’t need to fly back for it you can just you know be there and
Then your dad did a cable cutout of you for the wedding you got great memory Sarah yes yeah that all went down yeah that’s it at the end of the day I think you know there’s so many times when when we do things to make CU we’re trying to make
Other people happy rather than oursel happy and that’s not to say you shouldn’t care about other people but actually what ends up happening is if you do things for other people when they’re not for yourself then it actually just ends up coming falling down you like a ton of bricks anyway
Because you know if I’d have changed my plans and gone to my brother’s wedding and really been resenting being there uh you know it’d probably have come out in some other way and he’d have probably felt Dreadful that I’d then change my plans and and so actually I think
Everyone should just do what they want to do be happy be open be honest about it and then as long as everyone’s looking after themselves and then once they’ve looked after themselves they’ve got space to give energy to other people so um yeah but I think that’s definitely a philosophy in
Our family is do what you want to do do what makes you happy be kind spread the love but you you got to look after yourself and and do what you need to do in life how is it working being in relationship with Jamie because you’re both full-time adventurers and Jamie was
Off you know running around America and you off over in New Zealand and then you’re spending 5 months um doing the Barefoot run how do you manage and balance your relation relationship and is there the possibility of a joint adventure oh definitely there is definitely going to be joint Adventure
We’ve got Adventure in our bones um it it has been it’s been I mean it’s not been the easiest of relationships but I guess it comes back to that thing as well freedom and Adventure is so important to both of us that we would never ask the other one to give it up
And we’ve continued to Adventure separately because we have different I guess we have different wise you know mine is a lot about encouraging young people and women especially out into the outdoors and I feel like if I had a boyfriend next to me in every Adventure unfortunately the
Way the world is they just look at that and say well of course she’s doing that she’s got a boyfriend next to her so um we choose to Adventure separately and he’s got his amazing story about being really sick as a kid and so he uses that
To give back through his charity and so uh we’ve just coped I think and you know what something that seems really daunting like spending a year apart as he ran across America actually just turned into the most awesome adventure was like the best of both because I
Thought well Jay’s away for a year um I don’t need to be at home in the UK so I buggered off to New Zealand for five months to go and write a book and um and then I was nipping backwards and forwards to America to go and run with
Him every two to three months I dress up as Wonder Woman and run marathons with him and so then I was having my own little mini adventures in his adventures so we just Managed IT and try to again flip what might be a difficult situation into something that is an opportunity
For us both to have new experiences and it’s we don’t even FaceTime when we’re apart it’s so weird we just WhatsApp call and um that normally means that I can call him while he’s running or while I’m running or I’m doing the dishes or something really boring um and we just
Get on with our daily lives and and chat as if the person was sat next to us so um yeah it’s been grand the hardest yards I think are coming in the next year as we stay at home and try and have kids and and just go you know I can
Already feel we’re four months into normal life and I’m going oh my gosh I need to get outdoors and do something crazy this is so boring we’ve just had a sofa delivered and I’ve got a washing machine and oh my gosh I’m feeling so normal so um I think I think the
Challenging times are in this next year until we work out how to mix normal life with smaller Adventures so did you say you’re having babies we were trying yeah I’m not I mean I’m not up The Duffer yet I’m just I love it I’m just telling
Everyone you know why because I know so many women who have struggled to get pregnant and I can understand why people don’t talk about trying or whatever but I feel like if we try and it doesn’t work I feel happy telling everyone that we because that needs to be shared as
Well I feel so I’m just telling everyone yeah that’s our next adventure so um we’ll see how that goes I love it because when I hear that I’m always like you’re basically just say yeah we’re just having loads of sex that’s it well you know we’ve got to be indoors we’re
Quarantined well you good luck we’ll keep our fingers crossed he he tells me he’s got super sperm so you know we’re all good and the baby’s going to come out with pink hair yes know this is sort of a bit of a segue because you’re probably not wanting to
Get your period at the moment while you’re trying for a baby but Rosie Watson one of our tribe members and she’s I’ve just interviewed her for the tough girl podcast actually Rosie’s running from um from the Lake District over to Mongolia and she’s currently actually in Kosovo I think paused on her
Journey due to the Corona virus but she wants to ask the question on your more sort of remote Adventures such as the New Zealand run the Tiora run you know how did you deal with your periods you know this is obviously something that people don’t talk about and we should
Start the conversation as soon as we started the conversation about having babies let’s talk about periods as well regard let talk about periods because not only is it about having your period like I think it’s about acknowledging and the world realizing that your energy levels and everything changes in the
Course of a month thanks to our menstrual cycle and I just think that’s something that’s not not talked about and especially if we are outdoors and and you know it might be that on certain times in the cycle you’re going to have loads of energy and other times you’re
Going to be really struggling out there on your adventure so I think it’s really important to to learn about that which we don’t get taught about in schools I feel like all we got taught about in schools was don’t leave your tampon in too long you’ll get toxic shock which
Just made me feel bloody terrified about using tampons um but uh yeah so um how do I manage it well I mean in the past I’ve just used tampons but I have started to try and transition to using a moon cup because or whatever I mean there’s loads of other brands out there
Which are basically like a little um silicon cup that you put up there and then that catches everything and um and it means that you’re not producing waste you’re not putting things into the sewage system it’s reusable and you don’t need to rely on being able to get
Tampons wherever you are or sanitary pads I mean mind blown I I know I think you you’ve been to Bolivia I couldn’t get tampons in Bolivia I had to get my mom to send them from the UK because they’re not a tampon using country um so
I think that that’s what I’m I’m trying to do I will be honest though I’ve struggled a little bit with it with the comfort of it and getting it right and so I keep switching back I keep going back to tampons and then going come on Anna it’s good for the environment much
Better for adventuring get to grips with the moon cup um and I keep trying again and I’ve actually made a packed with my sister-in-law we have made a moon cup packed we’ve shook hands on it everything period packed hashtag um that we’re going to try and it’s both switch
To um yeah Moon cups so that we can be better for the environment and better for ourselves hopefully um but yeah it also depends on how how much your period affects you I’m pretty lucky that I I don’t have particularly heavy periods um but I think it’s just about being kind
To yourself and uh and rolling with how you feel I tried using Moon cups on the on the appalation trail and one thing that I sort of struggled with was like the hygiene of it all because it’s like trying to that mean not to get too
Graphic but trying to like take it out to empty it but having Clean Hands and because I was going stoveless I didn’t have anything to boil it with and then you’re sort of putting it back up and it’s just like and I wasn’t um you it
Wasn’t easy to like wash was like you obviously use like your bit of you know your water so you could like wash it out but I couldn’t really like sterilize it and so I will just I just found it a bit more of a nightmare from like a hygiene
Point of view and therefore I actually I ended up going back to to Tacs because I just and then like you know obviously carrying them out but then my like towards the end of the trip like my periods were so light they were pretty much non-existent for like the like the
Final final bit I’ve not cracked that either and I also don’t know how it works where if you’re in a public toilet where the sink is outside your toilet like do you just like carry this bloody moon cup out and they like hey how’s it going just going to wash my
Cup don’t mind me so so um I haven’t quite worked that out yet I’ve only ever used it at home but I’ve always been nervous about taking it out when I’m out so I bet there’s some people in the tribe that have got this down so I’m
Sure they can um they can input on it um and tell us what we do but yeah exactly when you’re on the appalation trail you know unless you’re near a running River or something then it is a bit of a tricky one so I know there’s a lot of
People in a similar position to us that are kind of trying it out and want to do it but aren’t quite sure the best way and just almost like transitioning back to to your Barefoot run experience you know massive congratulations on finishing it um so you finished in
London tell us a little bit more about getting to the finish and also how you the transition back to to normal life and physically and mentally how that was for you yeah I think I was I was very much prepared for the post-adventure blues this time I knew it was happening
Um I think I’m probably out of it now which is about four months in um and I actually did something a bit mad in the last week of the adventure because I’d had to move because of all the holdups with my foot and everything I’d had to
Move my finish date a week back and so I kind of had this extra week where I was on the schedule says I’m supposed to have arrived in London but I didn’t want to run around London because I thought probably a you know glass everywhere and goodness knows what else so I actually
Spent a week doing marathons on running tracks around London in that final week and I know that sounds mad but part of it was it was kind of a decompression chamber to come back to the real world because I could run round and round and round those tracks with no shoes on and
Almost start to process the adventure and start to think about what happened and um and just ease my mind back into sleep you know sleeping back in the same bed every night and being back at home but also um yeah just still still letting my body to move because the
Hardest thing when I finished was actually this time around normally it’s the mental come down but this time around physically the reaction from my body was just crazy and I’m sure you had this when you finished like the appalation trail as well you like your
Body is so used to moving for five six seven hours of a day and then suddenly you’re stationary and you know you should do a little bit of movement to sort of ease it back but you can’t be bothered because there’s no point you
Know I was I lost I was like what is the point in going running um I don’t I I didn’t have any motivation to go running and so then I would just I wouldn’t do any active and it was almost like I was my skin was crawling like my body was
Having this physical my arms were tingling my legs were tingling very physical reaction to what I’d just done and go go go and then suddenly stop so I don’t think that was the healthiest way to do it but I I I couldn’t have done it any differently I could not physically
Convince myself to go for a run I would start running and then I’d stop after about 5 minutes and I’d kind of come to and realize that I was walking and that I hadn’t even realized I was walking and um my body just didn’t want to run so
Yeah the physical cown was pretty tough this time um but the mental one I think it just always helps just to keep an eye out for how you’re feeling and and just check in every single day and know that every day is going to be different and
Um it is a strange thing and it will take ages to process the adventure you’ve been on in the previous episode we have talked a lot about sort of the financial aspects of um you know being your own boss and I can’t did we call it
Like a a jigsaw puzzle or we there was a specific word we use yeah jigsaw it a jigsaw jigsaw career and one of those parts of your jigsaw is that you are a a fantastic writer and you’ve published um you know amazing books you know two two
Of my favorites are obviously like the paner perspective about your run through New Zealand and also 50 Shades of the USA when you cycle 11,000 miles through every state of America which I actually read when I was on my cycle Journey Down the west coast of America so my question
Is is how is your book writing coming along I know you’ve got a new children’s book coming out but when’s also when what’s happening with the other books because I know you must be writing Lots yeah so actually just today before I came on to the call with you I put um I
Put out that the audio book version of that um the bike ride around America has just come out which is cool because that just means it opens it up to a whole other audience that won’t sit still and read of which I’m probably one of those
People um so I’ve got a couple of audio books out now which is great um and then my next book about South America Next adult book is called llama drama and that is coming out in um hopefully in July um I’m I’m trying to still that was
The original plan I’m St trying to still get it out of that point even though there are some logistical challenges one of which for example is that we need to shoot some llama legs for the front cover and we’d booked in with some llamas to do the shoot and um we
Obviously can’t now go and see the llamas so um I mean these are huge hurdles that need to be overcome for book publishing so um but yeah that one’s coming out in July called llama drama and that’ll eventually be on audiobook as well um
And then yeah um I I guess I I it’ll probably be out by the time this comes out my kids book um is is literally out just about now and that has been a really interesting Journey because that’s my first time that I’ve gone on a journey with a publisher rather than
Independently publish the book and so there’s having all these other people involved and I’ve had to work with an amazing illustrator she’s just brilliant I she’s so talented um and she just it’s called 100 Adventures to have before you grow up the kids book and it’s aimed at8
To 11 year olds but basically it’s a book for adults as well it’s basically like a bucket list of books um of things to do and I had so much fun writing that book because a lot of the adventures I didn’t have a huge amount of experience
For even and they were actually things that I want to do before I still grow up so you know you got horse riding in there learn to ride a unicycle rollerblading sand surfing uh visiting a lighthouse building a den all that stuff that that kids can either
Do right away or do it as an aspirational thing once they can travel travel further a field so um yeah I’m super stoked it’s going well and basically the thing about writing books is you just got to keep your head down and keep cracking them out even though
It feels like you’re not getting the rewards straight away because I started I wrote that kid’s book nearly two years ago I started writing it and now it’s coming out and it feels just it’s just awesome it’s just a very proud moment to get to share Adventure love with the
World oh my God that’s fantastic and actually that that leades into actually our final question from um from the tribe is um Josephine ansin wants to know do you have any good tips and resources for self-publishing um a book so I suppose yeah what’s your advice about self-publishing which you did with
Your um with your first couple of books yeah my advice for self-publishing is make if you’re going to self-publish make it the best book you can have the standard that you would do if you were a so basic a publisher so rather than seeing it as I think there’s the the term
Self-publishing is um is what people understand it as but it is more about just publishing independently because I when I self-publish a book I use a so I write the book and then it goes to the first um structural editor so that’s phase one it then goes to a copy editor
That’s phase two it then goes to a proof reader and then alongside that I’ve also got a designers working on the covers of the book and then they they also format the book as well you could have a separate formatter and then you know if you’re going to do an audio book then
You have to work with like a sound engineer on that side so when when you go with a publisher the publisher will then pay for all of that and they will use all their Freelancers or they’re in-house people to do all those things so as an independent author and if
You’re going to self-publish it I would just say it it use as many of those people as you can um I think the biggest mistake a lot of people that independently publish make is they don’t get an editor for their book and um even if you can’t afford a copy editor or a
Proof reader and you just get your friends to do all of the like they basically do all the grammar mistakes you know all the spelling mistakes and the capital letters and the place names but there is one thing that I would say and that is invest in a structural
Editor so someone who can take a step back who’s not emotionally invested in your book who can take a view from the reader’s perspective and say does this make sense how does the story flow do you need me to expand on more things so um there is a fantastic podcast actually
Called uh the creative pen I would recommend anyone that wants to independently publish a book goes and listens to that podcast and goes through all the back obviously when they’ve listened to all of yours though Sarah just saying thank you but she is like a One-Stop shop for anything you ever need
To know about self-publishing and um I absolutely love it because I have complete control over my books I’ve got control over the audio rights if I want to run a marketing campaign I can do it and instead of with traditional publishing you make about um between
Eight and 8 and 12% of every book sale that’s your royalty with independent publishing you make up to 70% of a book sale so um which I’m sure you know a lot about this as well Sarah but um uh yeah so I just I love the freedom and the
Control so if you’re the kind of person that’s got a short story you want to share with the world and you’re willing to roll your sleeves up and do some work and um employ a freelancer to edit your book then I would say absolutely do it because we need more stories out there
From women 100% there are not enough stories out there written by women Anna it has been amazing to catch up with you you are an absolute inspiration but before we head off two final things from you one where can people find more information out about you where can they
Follow along on you with you on social media buy your books and all that good stuff all the good stuff is if you just go to anim mn.com or you just follow me at Anam mcnuff my surname is MC n FF I’m the only anim in the world follow me on
There and I’ll put all my links to my books on my social media and on my website you’ll see all of that or just Google my name and everything will pop up fantastic and Anna final words of wisdom final words of advice for the listeners of the tough girl podcast what
Would you like to say to them I would say trust yourself realize that you know your better your yourself better and your body better than anyone else in the world so just trust yourself and go for it Tribe I hope you enjoyed that episode with Anna what an absolute Legend it’s always such a pleasure to catch up with Anna again everything that we have talked about today will be available in the show notes at tgir challenges.com so please do go and check it out this is
The first episode of the tough girl podcast that you’ve listened to thank you so much for tuning in I didn’t really introduce myself at the start but my name is Sarah Williams I’m the host of the tough girl podcast and the tough girl podcast extra tough girl podcast
Extra such as this episode is when we go back and catch up with previous guests to see what they’ve been up to since we last spoke with them the tough girl podcast extra comes out on a Thursday at 7:00 a.m. UK time and normal episodes
Come out on a Tuesday at 7: a.m. UK time one of the things that I’ve been trying to do over the past couple of weeks is to really increase the amount of episodes that I’m putting out so my goal is to get two episodes coming out per
Week so tough girl podcast on a Tuesday and the tough girl podcast extra on a Thursday so make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss out on any of the episodes over the past couple of weeks I’ve caught up with Wendy s who’s an adventurer mother of four and the
Seventh woman to ski solo and unsupported from Hercules Inlet to the South Pole we caught up with Sarah Davis also an adventurer who is paddling the length or who has just paddled the length of Australia’s longest river the Murray River 2,500 km we spoke with Dr Kate Leeming who was cycling who has
Cycled the entire nambian Coastline a 1,621 km sand cycling Expedition and we also caught up with Jackie Hill Murphy who shared more about her expedition to travel the length of the Amazon River and the lost incor Trail Expedition so more episodes are going to be coming out
Over the coming weeks so please do make sure you subscribe one of the reasons that I’m able to produce the tough girl podcast extra is due to the financial support of patrons so if you’d like to find out more about supporting the tough girl podcast and increasing the amount
Of female role models in the media then please do go visit patreon p a t o n.com tough girl podcast from $2 or $5 a month you can make a massive difference in this space but wherever you are whatever you are doing give it your all
Give it a 110% get after it and go for it all right take care lots of love and I’ll speak to you soon Bye