Hosted on behalf of Young Life’s Easter Speakout.
gracebaptist.org.uk
#gracesouthport
You’re more than welcome now Vinnie is my name and I work with a group called young life and they’ve been responsible for this weekend and basically we’ve doing some Street work for two days and not only that we’ve been doing last night we had a lecture here and it was
On as science killed God and Professor Andy Mack from Le university did a lecture it’s all you if if you missed it you can see it again and catch up and then uh tonight is our great uh evening and we’re really appreciative to Andy for flying in from northern and when I
First rang him he said he was coming and I said that’s great and he said we’ll book you oh I said we’ll book you and then he said I don’t fly I’m not flying and then he said I’m coming in my Bentley that does 16 miles to a
Gallon and I’m thinking whoa this is an expensive night but he decided to fly let’s give him a clap for coming all right now can we just say to you folks there’s one little thing as you go out this evening on the left hand side there’s a
Table and there’s an A4 sheet of paper I’ve managed to negotiate the books of Andy’s wife who’s written this story down from 9 to3 all right so they’re yours tonight 3 and Johnny’s just got one in his hand there and it’s called the came a day but
It’s written by Andy’s wife okay and it’s all about the story from Mom’s point of view okay about what to what took place but um 10 of those are good friends up at L they’ve got this down £3 now I don’t want your cash tonight all
The Scots say he PE all right but here’s the point uh leave your a just leave a telephone number take the book and I’ll find you in Southport this week all right and don’t make somebody else’s number over will you all right now we’re going to sing Steven Benji the ivories
And we’ve got a lovely song just to start with stand if you can and then we’ll introduce uh a clip and then it’ll be over to the interview and at the end folks can we just say there will be a nice cup of tea and coffee and also you
Can ask questions from the floor so please get your questions ready okay thanks Steve we’ll stand to sing it’s a lovely Hym this would be a long intro Steve he’s nearly got it on the screen we will now sing a thousand green bottles standing on a wall so each Christ will allow me Fast I feel my will will when the Pr my love is was hold he will hold for my Hees his Will pre in his holy Will He will hold me fast he will hold me fast for myi loves me he will he will hold he will hold us for my savior loves me so Seated okay well it’s a great truth isn’t it whatever you go through Jesus will hold you fast and I’m sure tonight will feel something of that as well as listen to something of that let’s have a little prayer and then we’re going to go over to our YouTube clip Heavenly Father
We thank you that Jesus has promised that those who trust in him and put faith in him he will hold them fast through thick and thin and thick and thinner we pray that you would help tonight we pray for Andy’s entire family even this happened so many years ago the
Pain must still be there and we pray tonight that we’d know your voice and have a really good evening on this Easter Sunday we ask this in jesus’ name amen amen thank you Thank You Phillip we have had to endure and listen till how Robert black uh kidnapped and sexually abused and
Murdered our daughter and our children’s sister and it has been absolutely horrendous we heard things that in all honesty was not even in our imagination and for 30 years we as a family really have never tried to tried to understand or try to think of what in the last hours of her life
That she went through and all of a sudden we’re confronted with the awfulness of them last few hours and what she would have had to suffer and that has been truly awful for each and every one of us now we are Christians and we have a
Faith and for the last 30 years and particularly throughout the trial we have had a promise from God that he would never forsake or leave us and that’s in the scriptures and he has given us a piece that also tells us in the Epistles that he gives us a peace that passes all
Understanding and we as a family have found that peace and we’ll be able to we’ve been able to live without bitterness and without Vengeance in our lives and when we lost Victoria or Jennifer life was never the same but life had to go on and we had to live
Life so we had and Robert black stole the life of our daughter Jennifer but Robert black didn’t steal the lives of me and my family we’ve lived a happy prosperous life but we miss Jennifer each and every day and this time I would just like to thank the police team
Headed by inspector Raymond Murray on the hard work that they put into us over the years we’d like to thank Toby headworth and the prosecution team and the work that they put into it we would particularly like to thank the jury and the awfulness that some of them young
People had to listen to things as I’ve said that wasn’t even in our imagination and I would say not even in their imagination so we like to thank them particularly Mr Justice hedworth we’d like to thank him on the lovely and careful and caring way that he conducted
The trial we would like to thank him we would like to thank also our friends our church and even strangers that have held us lovingly in prayer and looked after us and wrote letters to us and we have seen two sides of humanity over the last
Weeks we’ve seen the side of Robin black Robert black but we’ve also seen the side of the lovely people that we’ve met and we would like to thank also uh the Press cuz the Press has been absolutely lovely thanks philli well welcome Andy come and join [Applause]
Us lovely now Andy just for our interest what year was that uh 2011 2011 so I’ve lost more hair great it’s good to have you you arriv yesterday on a a is this right no Friday Friday okay and you’re staying locally for a few days yes walking in
The area great okay now Andy you were born in Northern Ireland tell us what family life was like for you yes I my father was English and I would never held that against him we loved him as a father so we did uh my father was uh in the Army and uh
Had been sent from Don Kirk uh till uh eventually to the province till SE barracks and he met mom there and during the war they got married on dday was back at Oran School Beach and went through the war and when he was demor uh mom wouldn’t leave her mom as
Women will never leave their mothers so dad had to setup house in Ireland and I was born in 1949 now no looking at me that’s you can’t believe that like really uh I was born 49 and my father uh got a job driving a bus because he had a
Heavy good vehicle license in the Army and in the Depo that he worked in there was Christian uh drivers and conductors and Fitters and they kept on witnessing to them and inviting them to meetings and he eventually accepted a meeting in the middle of the day funny enough and
The Christians Workers Union in 1950 and he got saved to not meet okay so he did so I was brought up I was very blessed I was brought up in a Christian home so I always knew I needed to be saved and you know I have to save any uh
In the province the word saved and born again is evangelical jargon that everybody hears but I’ve spoke quite a lot in England and places where that’s not understood saved really just means that you’re saved saved from hell that the Lord Jesus Christ has saved you from
Hell to be born again is to be taken from the family of the devil because the scriptures tells us very clearly that when you’re born uh Satan is your father and be you’re taken from his family and rebirthed into the family of God so you
Become a child of God and he became a child of God in 1950 so I was brought up under the sound of the Gospel now where did you meet Patricia yeah well that’s uh I normally call you know I normally take a church meeting and call it
Lifechanging days and we all have big lifechanging days so I lived in a cottage was our family lived in a cottage out in the country and we they built a council state quite within a mile mile and a half from us and I had to pass that new councelor state every
Morning walking to school and one morning they filled the houses up two at a time or four at a time they just filled up some houses and as I walked past a girl come walking out of the house and uh when she saw me she fell instantly in love with me oh thank
[Laughter] you was she still asleep the the awful thing about it was I was 13 and she was 14 so I told told her right until she passed away that if it was today she’d be in jail we’re taking advantage of a minor and we went out together off and
On till we eventually got married and we were married before she passed away we were married 54 years so okay now Andy you were to have three children tell us about your children actually five children so we had uh our first child was Mark and he’s now in his 50s and uh
He helps run the business and uh then our second child died at Birth it was a full term and we don’t know to this day really what happened to child in them days you weren’t told the way you’re told now and we called him David and uh we buried him and then our
Third child was Jennifer and then our fourth child uh was Phillip and Pat’s Health broke down very very badly uh she’s diabetic and rheumato arthritis and advised her never to have uh any more children so she had to go into the hospital for an operation and there they advised her to be
Sterilized and she didn’t know what to do she spoke to me about it come out of a hospital and I said look you know uh I wouldn’t ask you to do that but not long after the Lord spoke to her very clearly that she had to get
Sterilized so she went into the hospital and got sterilized and and about 9 to 10 months I can’t tell you exactly how long after that she come down the stairs we built a new house by the way we’re living in a new house out in the country and she come down the
Stairs one morning she says to me I’m pregnant again and I says look I’m not that good so I’m not but anyhow uh they uh eventually said I’ve been pregnant often enough to know that I’m pregnant so she uh went to the doctor and the doctor in her was in
First name terms and doctor told her that should a we bug so we bug’s 41 years of age and what’s the name of the B Victoria is a bug okay okay now you said about the business um kitchens was it so if anybody’s interested in a new kitchen
You’re the man yeah I’m the man well my son’s run at now right okay I’ve retired now um Andy you were getting on with life I guess things were going well and you had a daughter whose name was Jennifer MH and she went to school and you notice that the school
Children a lot of them had bicycles yes it that affected you didn’t it the story was you see that that in the country it’s very hard some of the younger people don’t really understand uh that it was a very safe part of the world to live in and the word petophile
Was a word that I wouldn’t even know in the meeting of and uh the children were cycling to our house and my boys were cycling they were out in the bikes all the time and Jennifer’s bike had uh got too small for so one Wednesday I come home from the
Office and I says there’s a bicycle shop down the road out in the country there was massive Bank bicycle shop on a farm and I brought her down and bought her a bike so that she could go s to their houses it was the bike that she was on
When she was lifted so okay and um just take us back to the day Andy when the news was to come through because she was delayed on her appointment whever she was going and you didn’t really Panic too much about that but can you remember just what actually happened that day
Well it was a Wednesday night and uh Wednesday was P likeed to get out to the Bible study and per meting and I liked stay on a Wednesday night with children because I worked long hours so I always on a Wednesday made sure it didn’t work
And the office I meant that I got home at the lest probably about 6:00 half 5 6:00 and I drove into my yard and when I drove into the yard Pat standing the back door and Knew by looking at there was something wrong and she had a car
But the car had had a uh pump slow pump had had a flat wheel so she couldn’t go in her car so I said what’s wrong Pat she says Jennifer left at I think it was one or half one and she was to be back
At half 4 and she never was late and Pat sat her watch and them days were all mechanical watches and Pat wared her watch up and set her watch and she said she’ be back at half four at this time she hadn’t come back now I wasn’t particularly panicked because I imagined
That children are children and children play and don’t particularly in school holidays she was wored and then we went looking for her and she had never arrived at the house which was only 2 and a half miles down the road she had never arrived there so she hadn’t so
Then we went around Farms you know cuz we know a lot of people in the area and we couldn’t we found somebody who had seen her going past so we then went to part-time police station in a and uh told there was a sergeant coming off
Judy and he says look he says go and search for another R and I’ll not go home I’ll wait for an hour and uh by this time because we had asked so many people there was other people looking for her and an hour’s time she hadn’t
Turned up so we knew we had problem went back to the police station he very quickly organized uh UDR the police the Army everybody was there there’s thousands of people there very quickly looking for us there was so then about midnight that night uh friend of mine
Came he had one of these pickups with a bar with lights on the bar and I explained to him what way I was told she went and he went down he got his friend up on the back of the pickup when he sha the lights over the hedges and just
About a mile mile and a half down the road the lights picked up the reflectors of her bike L Over the Hedge so we knew then that we had an abduction that we were in trouble and people ask me what that feels like and there’s no you can’t
Explain what that’s like the feeling what it does to your mind your soul and your body you know it’s just it’s just it’s unexplainable there’s just no words that can explain the fact that your child’s missing go into the bedroom and all the toys are there and toothbrushes in the
Bathroom and so on you just there’s no no way you can explain that there’s not and you know there’s no doubt that the Lord brought us through that no doubt about that um Andy what was Jennifer like she was lovely she was uh a child that glowed I’m not saying that because
She’s my child everybody believes their own children glow but she was particularly glowing uh she had got saved when she was seven years of age and she witnessed her friends told them that she was going to heaven and they needed also to be saved and you know I can all recall you
Know I live in a very mixed community so a lot of the children came to our house were Roman Catholic children as well as Protestant children and there was no there was no s arianism and one of Jennifer’s best friend uh lived down about a mile from us and they CED up and
She sangled down and remember her mother saying to me one day you know your Jennifer was in our house the other day and a man come in I can’t remember his name and Jennifer was there and this man says who who owns that lovely child she
Was just a lovely child to be with and when I at home at night if I was late and she was awake she would have banged the floor in her bedroom for me to go up and say good night to her then in the mornings um she would have come in the
Bed beside me and Pat you know she was just a lovely child so she was just uh a unique child so she was so on the Wednesday and then after the search they found the bike and then the body I guess well we knew then that uh there was uh
That somebody abducted her and uh the church was fantastic uh the people in The Province were fantastic I just recently did a I did a meeting away about 60 miles from me and uh a man came to me in the meeting and he says by the
Way he says I searched for your daughter and she he lived he said I got home from work and I saw the news he said I got into my van got my dinner quickly and got in my van went and searched so did and uh I meet people continually you
Know I was in Banger taking a meeting not so long ago I uh met a uh man there and he had searched for Jennifer too so you know people were just lovely and it took six days and on the sixth day I really hadn’t left the house and the
House never stopped and I had a very good friend called Reverend William Bey who was a free Presbyterian Minister and he would have come each night and held we meeting in the house so and it was good and uh my brother-in-law called with me in this sixth day and he said
Look Andy you haven’t been out of the house come on with me down to the headquarters where they have the search headquarters so we went down and I met the senior policeman that was looking after I actually knew him quite well and we talked and all of a sudden he was
Called away and everybody left the room quite a big room we were in and uh we were there my brother andlaw and I were there on our own and the awfulness of that was that around the wall there was poster size things on the wall and it was split up into
Areas and all of these were written pedophilias and incense and you know when I started read these I knew some of the people on these posters these were people that were looking that then U policewoman come back and said look you I’ll have to go home so I knew
There was something that happened and when I got home it wasn’t long home and the day I on officer a girl called Evon Forbes still see and friendly to her with her this to this day she called to tell me that find her body they found
Her body on a very uh busy road called the A1 and there was a pull in for uh fast food in a lby very big lby and in behind the lby there was a dam so two fishermen were fishing in the dam and they found her body in the dam and she’d
Been sexually assaulted and uh strangled and thrown into the dam so and that was how many days after six days six days now um Andy how many months years was it be before that incident to what we saw on the news there where you out to court
There been a conviction of Robert black well we lost her in 1981 but in the early ’90s we knew Robert black had murdered her daughter uh the police secretly met us on dozens of occasions to keep us up to date couldn’t tell anybody that we knew
Who murdered her and Robert black had uh been caught he had abducted a a child in the Scottish borders in a place called sty or sto and I have to tell you a story of it how he was caught uh there was an old man working in his garden he’s passed away
Now and his garden sloped away down to the road and if you’ve ever saw any television things on it they don’t tell it right they can’t tell it right there’s reasons why they can’t tell it right but he was down the bottom of the garden and there was the when he stood
At the bottom of the garden his eyes was level with the foot path that went past his house he was working at his lawn more and when he got up and looked he saw a van had stopped across the road from him and he had worked at one stage
In his life as an Undertaker and he couldn’t understand what he was looking at because the man who drove the van was outside the van and he was cleaning the windows of the van and the wing mirror with a oily rag he could see he was sat close he could
See it was an oily rag and he couldn’t understand this he watched on he watched on little girl come down the foot path and he saw her feet go underneath the van and then they disappeared and the driver ran around jumped in and drove off in an easterly
Direction and he knew he had seen an abduction and he ran very quickly he was on the edge of the village to the local police station and he told two policemen on juty what he had seen and they put all things into action but they then
Went out on the street and stopped cars coming from the e going west and eventually after about an hour an hour and a half they stopped a and the L said yes I’ve seen that Transit van and what Drew my attention to the van
Was the man got out of it from the back of the van he was stripped to the waist he says I thought that was a very funny thing so let the L driver go and they were discussing what to do next when the van came down the the road and the
Police Stopped the van and one policeman entertained the driver who was Robert black and the other opened the back doors and he was just about to shut the doors when he saw the packing move and he got into the van he pulled back the packing and when he pulled back
This all these rags and paper packing he found underneath of a sleeping bag that was TI at the top and when he opened it he found it girl in there who had a hood over her head and her mouth was tipped and her hands and her legs was tipped
Now the reckon that she would have only lasted in another 15 to 20 minutes she would have suffocated but the awful thing about the story was which breaks my heart every time the policeman who found the child it was his child so he rescued his child and then I don’t know to be
Truthful if it me me I would have killed him I mean that so but then the other thing then was that uh the awfulness of what he did in that little girl in the couple of hours that he had her was beyond your imagination so it is and we had to hear
That in the trial what he do did you know so he was lifted for that and then they went to Flat in London and they just covered huge amount of P pedophilia and other things that I can’t tell you what and uh they then started to look at
Him and his job his job was delivering he was in France he was all over England Scotland Wales and all over Ireland southern Ireland as well and they were able to start following them by petral receipts in them days there was a thing called uh micro fish I’m sure some of
The older people remember micro fish well when you bought diesel in them days with a credit card again some people are old enough here to remember that they put it into a thing and they swiped it and you got a carbon copy well that was stored on micro fish so they went into
The petrol company that the petrol company that his firm used and they were able to then start following Robert black and eventually they were able to uh prove without a doubt that he had killed three other youngsters and abducted two and then the province that we knew
From right from the start that the trail led to the province that he was in the province in Northern Ireland on the day that Jennifer went missing so we knew from the early ’90s not long after he’ been arrested that he had killed our daughter so we just had to wait and have
Patience so the guy was in the field he was disturbed because he saw this man cleaning the van with a dirty rag yes uhhuh and that got his attention yeah mhm and then the feet were seen under the van and went missing mhm and then responded mhm and eventually the
Policeman who went to the van it was his daughter it was his daughter and she had probably about 15 more minutes to live at Mo at most maybe 20 they said so of course he was now Prime Suspect for child adduction now why would it take so
Long Andy to get to trial I suppose the police just need to be sure of their presentation there was in the end there was I can’t tell you the wit but there was two V Lords of habitant now I mean that thousands and thousands of witnesses thousands you just it was absolutely
Unbelievable how much uh there was particularly when they had to investigate so many murders and it took that length of time to get there to the province uh to investigate it and Pat and I was never in any huray we just always knew that the Lord
Would uh bring that uh till the Finish we knew that we would get a a closure on we just had that promise and we knew that would happen when eventually Robert black was brought to court Andy did you have the option as a family and as friends not to
Attend or was it compulsory for you or did you just feel I must do this and how did you work through that knowing how painful it was going to be well throughout the whole thing patner had avoided the Press when you ever went to court we would be ke in the media eyes
So Pat and I talked about it and we said we would pray about it and we decided that we wouldn’t go to court and we told the police the police were very disappointed in that and I tried not tried to persuade us in a nice way
To be at the court so Pat and I prayed about it and the police made a a uh made an appointment to come and see me in my office I can’t remember was some morning and I had prayed about it and the Lord spoke to me through a scripture
That I read that morning that I had to be there I can’t remember the scripture so I rang Pat and I said Pat you know know the Lord has spoken to me this morning and I feel he spoken through this scripture that I have to be
At this trial and she said well I’m going to tell you and says I’ve read the same scripture and I want to be the trial too so the police were there that morning to make us or asked us to go to trial I said look both of us
Agreed to go now the awfulness of that was that we had to go to his arraignment and we had to look at the man who had killed our daughter but the thing about it was that the blood of Jesus Christ is powerful and more powerful than murder it’s more powerful than I
And in the scriptures we have murderers that are in heaven we know David murdered directly or indirectly we know Paul directly or indirectly murdered we know Moses murdered so we know that the blood of Christ can forgive murderer now even Robert black had killed our daughter I knew he was still a very
Precious living Soul he was his soul is going to live for all eternity and even for what he did I wouldn’t want any of my enemies or anybody I dislike ever to go to hell for forever the awfulness of that so I was able through a long time and Pat was the
Same to pray and find forgiveness now that doesn’t mean to say that we liked what he did or we liked the man we hated what he did in actual fact I would have hung him when he was convicted because I believe in capital punishment that’s me
But we had to learn to live in forgiveness now our family and our friends friends our colleagues never seen any bitterness in us I never once had any bitterness I only had forgiveness now Jesus is the same Jesus has no bitterness he is only forgiveness and Jesus has love even for
His enemies and he can put that love into our hearts and our minds and our souls and I’m no better a Christian than any other Christian all I can tell you I found that forgiveness and I found that contentment through studying the scriptures so I never was bitter I’ve
Seen bitterness destroy people I’ve seen bitterness where people can’t move on a day from what happened to them Pat and I seen so many people who had lost loved ones broke their marriages up drove them to drink drove them to drugs we’d seen that over the years and we knew we would
Never ever fall into that and Andy what age were your boys when this happened uh I think that uh Victoria had just been born she was born in December 1980 so this was August 81 she’s only a child actually act Jennifer fed Victoria for Pat before she left and uh philli
Was about six I think think from memory and Mark was just in his early teens although you’ve had this um attitude that you say from scripture that you got about forgiving no bitterness the boys how did they take it home well you see that’s the other thing uh if you are a
Family you’ll find that families offsprings copy what their fathers and mothers do like for example I’ve seen a lot of families where the father and mother drank a lot and the children drink a lot and I’ve seen a lot of families where uh things that have been
Done wrong their children do exactly the same now our children never seen that bitterness in any of us Pat or I and it means that they have no bitterness my children my daughter and my two sons have no bitterness in the them at all they’re they’re they’re not soft people
Now we’re not soft people we not be walked on but we have love and no bitterness towards people so we haven’t uh so it has to be bitterness will destroy if you’re a Christian it’ll destroy your Christian Life it’ll destroy your fellowship with the Lord Jesus because you can’t have fellowship
With the forgiving savior when you have no forgiveness I can remember one time pat was always having operations she was always crashing her car really yeah always and she crashed her car once again and broke a leg and she was in a wheelchair for a while and uh she wasn’t getting any
Better never forget it I sitting lovely day she was sitting outside in our patio and she was reading and I was reading and I was reading I can’t remember what was in the scriptures about forgiveness and you know I said to myself you know Lord there was somebody done something
To me and I hadn’t dis I hadn’t forgiven them and I said you know I haven’t forgiven that person in my soul and I got up and walk around the corner of the house and had a quiet few minutes with the Lord and I I know had now have forgiven
That man for what he did on me and what he did on me wasn’t nice cost me quite a lot of money and I walked around and knew had forgiven him I walked around the corner and Pat was standing up she says look what I can do it was the first
Time she stood up in months now you could say that was a miracle or coincidence but I know the Lord spoke and answered prayer so he did Robert black was from gr mouth and do we know exactly how many lives he took and the he’s died in prison we
Understand that few years ago um did you ever look into what he was like as a person or did you just feel write him off there’s been so much written about him that you can read as much about him as you want there’s been more written about him than about Jennifer or
Anything uh I’ve had several authors on the phone to me about things he uh started off very badly uh so he was and rip when he was very young but they know they were just about to I think it’s Janette hit they were about to bring him
To trial for the murder of Janette TI and they know that he had murdered in southern Ireland as well so there would have been a string of more murders that he would it would definitely have been a convered of Andy if you weren’t a Believer and Patricia wasn’t a Believer
And you had to go through this or how do you think you would have got through or do you think you would have got through it’s very very hard to know any uh put you see when see what I really haven’t told you is that when I
Lost Jennifer I wasn’t a Christian I wasn’t saved to some time after it but having over the last 30 odd years having studied the scriptures I believe in covenantal theology a lot of people don’t agree with that but I would be begging to the Covenant
That God has for you like Paul said this is for you and your children and for those that are far off that are called God always and Jesus always talked about families and the the the saved mother sanctifies the F family and so on and I believe that P’s salvation Sanctified
Our family now I would have no doubt about that that she s Sanctified and it wasn’t until uh uh Victoria grew up a bit when she child she started to ask me to go to Good News Club things and Sunday school things and I couldn’t refuse this child anything so
I started to go to these uh Good News Club things whatnot and you know the scriptures started to all that I had learned in Sunday school when I was a Youngster all started to come back to me and I put under conviction and I’ve always I’m over here
Walking with my friend Bill I’ve walked with him for over 30 years and uh I was uh decided to take a few days off and go walking and I got my dad to run me up he was alive at the time run me up to a place called picu which is in southern
Ireland in Donal with my tent and enough food for three or 4 days and I went walking up over T over lock D and lo esque up into the blue stack Mountains and the whole walk over the days was this huge battle with Satan and the Holy
Spirit when I knew I needed to be saved and uh the last day not the the pronate day of this walk I walked a long time into of the night it was September and it was very dark I knew had to make ground cuz I had to meet Pat
Up in F Cara which was right up in the North Coast in Dall the next night and I knew hadn’t made good time so I walked well into the night and I eventually found somewhere was in there was a lot of Pete bugs and Pete troughs in the
Glen vay National Park put the tent up had something to eatting had a good night’s sleep the next morning I woke up a storm had moved in and when I say a storm I mean a storm there was no visibility uh there was horizontal rain had a breakfast and packed the tent
Up and when I packed the tent up I realized I didn’t know where it was I knew it was in the I knew I knew it was in the Glen Bay National Park and I knew I had to walk North but there was Cliffs you could have fell down and
Whatnot so I said to the Lord I says look I’ve got to meet Paton falara tonight get me to falara night and I just walked on a bearing which is very hard to do I’ll never forget climb climbed down a cliff likee Mountain I
Got to the bottom of mountain I was in a plateau and the Mist lifted just enough for me to see the bottom of erle sticking out of the Mist so I knew as in the and I was knew as in the poison gland so was knew where I was then I
Knew where to go and I promised the Lord that I would go back to church on a Sunday night until he either saved me or rejected me and it kept that promise and it wasn’t long after that I went to uh a mission the church had Evangelical
Presbyterian Church it was a man called Andre wiy and an evangelist called Carell Dara and they preached I was there a couple of nights and the last night in the mission when I went home I knew that I needed to be saved and when everybody
Went to bed I asked the Lord to SA saved me and he saved me but how do you know you’re saved you think you expect a road to Damascus experience but there’s not many road to Damascus experiences I’m not in Northern Island now no and so I as I went up the stairs
Satan started you how do you know you’re saved for goodness sake catch yourself on and the Holy Spirit then brought another thing to my mind my sister had been with whack as a missionary and when she joined wack they told her she would have to go to college for three years
And they give her a choice of three colleges and she couldn’t decide which one to go to and she prayed about it and one day she was reading scriptures and the verse jumped out of the scriptures she couldn’t leave this verse alone all day and that night when she was looking
Through the the the the literature on the colleges she saw that over the top of one of the gates was of the college was this verse of scripture so she knew instinctively that the Lord spoke to her and I said you can do for that you can
Do that for Elizabeth you can do that for that for me in the morning I says when I go down in the morning after Shard and shaved I want you to give me a verse that I’m saved when I went down the next morning couldn’t wait to get
Down opened the Bible Pat’s Bible was sitting on the work tub and when open the Bible the first verse I read praise ye the Lord sing onto the Lord because he delivered the soul of the poor from the hands of the evildoer so I you was saved and have never ever suspected that
It wasn’t now Andy um you went to the trial and it lasted how long it was 6 weeks the first three first three days of the trial was held in a court in Craig and Craig Crown Court and then after three days the following week I
Was moved to Arma Crown Court the first three days was three days of uh choosing a a jury and the prosecution and the defense argued over legal obviously his defense didn’t want his pass crimes to Comm into it obviously the prosecution did so on that occasion the judge ruled that when the
Prosecution could prove to the court that he hadd been in the province on the day he would then let them step the trial up to introduce his past crimes but without any warning they played tips of him being interviewed in andam crime suite and I had to listen to this man
Explain to these officers why he liked little girls rather than mature women and this broke my heart because the penny almost and just dinged on me that this is what my daughter had went through and all I could do was sit and weep of what this man did to little girls and
I remember going home that night and uh all I wanted to do was incer myself in my house with my wife and uh the Lord spoke to me Hebrews never forsake the Gathering of yourselves together I said the pat get ready we’re going out to the prayer
Meeting so we went out to the prayer meeting and the love and support and help that we got that that night in that prayam me and brought us through another hurdle then it moved to the court in our man it was 6 weeks in that court and recently I took a meeting I
Can’t remember where it was and this man come up to me and he says Andy do you recognize me and I says no it don’t he says I drove you to the to the court with police brought us every morning and he said I’ll never forget he says you
And Pat get into the car and he says You Prayed from boundary to m I would remember that so so it went on for six weeks there and I had sit and watched this man for six weeks he was just sitting feet away from me and his continents never changed when
He talked about what he did he never even wasn’t he wasn’t even embarrassed so he wasn’t and you know I felt so sorry for that man you know you ever catch his eye Andy never would never look at me so he wouldn’t and he was sitting I was sitting this way and
He was sitting that way I think they do that purposely so they do and after two weeks they allowed the prosecution to lift the trial introducing his past crimes and at times there was one or two times they had to let the jury off early because girls in it couldn’t have stuck
Anymore but Christ never left her side it was like he sat in the car with us it was like he sat beside us in the seats it was an incredible experience to have Christ so close I’ll never forget when the trial was over you went back in to thank
People didn’t you yes tell us what happened when the trial was over we thanked as many people as we could one to one but I went into the court and the clock of the Court was Ring up and she was a woman I can’t tell you what her I
Think you called her Grace from memory and uh she was reading up and I said look thanks very much because the people were just lovely I says Andy I’m going to tell you something she says I’ve been in this job I think it was 27 or 28
Years just can’t remember the length of time and she says I’ve never set through anything like that in my life she says I’ve never seen all the jury cry I’ve never seen all the police cry I’ve never seen all the Press cry I’ve never seen all the prosecution cry
Says I’ve never seen the def fence crying and she says I’ve never cried myself before such was the presence of God in that and you see you know I think that’s the only time I ever heard myself say that and I’m amazed that I was able to say that what I
Said and the the police came to me the day before the the verdict was the uh press police press man came and he says now atie tomorrow have it all written out don’t come and wing it and when I went home that night I said look I’m
Going to have to speak till cameras tomorrow and the Lord spoke to me don’t worry what to say I’ll put the words into your mouth that was the Lord speaking I couldn’t have done that my own I couldn’t have spoke as eloquent I never knew I was not
Eloquent then he tells me I’m not do you know that he had the check tonight to criticize my shirt no and I said at least only because I thought it was a painting I says at least I didn’t come with tablecloth [Laughter] on yeah isn’t it nice to laugh huh it’s
Nice to laugh and be happy Andy as we round up we’ll take one or two questions but when you meet Jennifer again what do you think will happen well uh it’ll be a fantastic meeting I’ll meet the Lord Jesus first and I’ll probably meet Pat and her together Pat I must
Tell you Pat have we time for me to tell you about Pat passing away Pat was very ill for a few years and I was her care really I LIF it and later there days I lifted her 18 times in out of bed on off
The toilet or in out of the car she like to go out for a meal and uh her other she had lost a leg uh her foot was gous and the other foot was gone she was going to lose another leg and this woman never complained and we
Broke bread together two or three times a week and uh I read the scripture she couldn’t read in the end I read the scripture to her continually and the last time we broke bread together I read her passage say Andy read that again called me Andrew Andrew read that again
I read it her three times my broke bread but the morning she I went into her I would have got down very early in the morning before the cars coming I would have changed her pad got her up and give her breakfast and had her back to bed
For the carers coming to was her and I went down this morning and she said no don’t want my pad just leave let me lie and I changed her pad I said I’m getting you up for your breakfast no don’t wanted breakfast and she started to feed
And I knew there was something wrong V he rung the doctor doctor rung me back and said get an ambulance brought into the hospital the ambulance people told me she wouldn’t last today and uh we eventually all went to kavan hospital and was around her bed
And I was sitting this side of her and the family was the other side and was holding her hand and uh I seen she died seen the color of her face you should di before the monitor stopped and uh sat holding her hand for about 10
Minutes and I got up and walked along about a bed along along the bottom of the bed and as I walked along the bottom of the bed the Lord spoke to me you the Lord said I can go to the child the child can’t come to
Me who said that King David when he got up and he washed and he dressed and at again after the child died and asked him why and he says I can go to the child but the child can’t come to me and I knew that P was with the child now
Listen to this the first Sunday back at church after after a funeral I wouldn’t let anybody wear black at the funeral this is a celebration of a life this is Resurrection Sunday my wife was resurrected Christ defeated death he defeated Satan and death when he rose from the dead that’s you know sometimes
We treat the breaking of bread too much like a uh funeral service it’s not a funeral service it’s a a triumphal service so it is and uh when I first s Sunday back at church our church I go to NM church if we spaces if somebody wants
To read a scripture this girl got up and read uh Revelations 3 behold I stand at the door and knock If any man hear my voice I I will go in and S with him and he was me and that verse she stood up and read that verse and 50 years prior
To that Pat went to Mission and that mission the Evangelist preached on that one and only verse and she got saved so wasn’t the Lord just so good but I have to tell you Vinnie I know we need the Finish we do ah but listen your clock didn’t move
Last night did it he he also made us sit through an appeal and that was terrible so s and I’ll finish with this when the appeal was over months later when the Lord chief justice had ruled as appealed had been he sat as close as that piano to me
Looking this way and I’m looking that way and the Pres officer both side raised him to his feet and they put the big clumps on him and he laughed and joked with them so he did and he walked past me closer nearly as close as Vinnie
He walked past me and I saw hell go past me and I stood in the court and wept I wept at someone somebody can be deceived enough to know that Jesus we sent him a Bible my son sent him a Bible that Jesus loved him as much as he loved
Me and Jesus died for him as much as he died for me you just think of that and he said no to that and I believe today I will not judge anybody I believe today he’s in hell what else do you want to ask me well we’ll wrap up there andy but
Thank you ever so much now people will have questions do chat with Andy and uh can we just say that the books if you want one of those out there remember you’re leaving your telephone number but we don’t want your cash today but Andy actually can
Spell so you might get him to sign it for you and then uh the book’s three quid and the autographs [Laughter] five okay so we’ll we’ll let you well Andy just one or two questions just quickly because we said it we anybody just want to ask ask a question I I’ll
Repeat the question as it comes out from anybody yes just obviously this kind of thing uh unfortunately just the world that we live in this kind of thing still happens today when you hear the news of a a child or somebody being taken in the news
Today do you is is it something that you would help another family through is is that some I mean obviously you’re talking to us tonight um but when you hear other things happening on the news um after you’ve lost your own family because obviously you can experience you’ve experienced it to be
Able to come alongside those other families you know that sounds that’s a very good question and I’ll see you outside uh listen everybody has a talent the Lord has gifted us all in some way and I know the Lord has not gifted me as a counselor I know he hasn’t I have
Compassion for people and I I’m so sorry when somebody loses a child but I could not counsel somebody I know pray I can pray with them I can support them but I can’t counsel them because I know I’m not a counselor I know it’s not my gifting
And you know I believe in honesty that I because I have had this peace from God I actually think that I could do harm certain people would almost see that I don’t have feelings because I have such a peace so I decided a long time ago I’ve been asked not to ever be
A CER cuz it’s not my thing I have compassion and love for people and I’m but I do what I do and I teach children in good news clubs I do two good news clubs every week and I teach children in good news clubs and I do meetings for
Churches and that’s my gifting okay great thank you for your question we’ll take one more anybody the ladies want to know where you buy your shirt yes thank you I would like to tell everybody a story I was from Barn twe I wasn’t even born but back in
1982 um Robert black had kidnapped a girl called Susan Maxwell that’s right and if you go to co stream there’s a little garden there and there’s a plaque there about Susan Maxwell it was back in 1982 that’s right thank you can you remember Andy thank you he’s very much
Aware of that so the other thing is too that uh all the rest of the children found after Jennifer was taken had no shoes on Jennifer was fine with shoes on and we think Pat and I thought quite a lot about this we think that Jennifer put up
A fight and that’s why he took the CH the shoes off the children so they couldn’t kick them okay well thank you for coming folks you trust in one sense you know you were intrigued by the story do chat with Andy but don’t hog all his time because there probably 20 people in
Here wanted to speak to him remember the books as Refreshments now let’s say a little prayer thank [Applause] you let’s say a little prayer to finish Heavenly Father we thank you because we’ve heard Triumph through tragedy and we thank you for the one who has triumphed Jesus himself he’s conquered the
Grave we pray for every family affect by this wicked man we pray you’ll Comfort them whoever they are and all their relatives but we thank you most of all that when we trust Jesus put our faith in him and when we ask him to come and
Live in our hearts he washes us whiter than snow and we thank you that we’re Heaven’s child forever bless Andy keep him safe give him a good time in Mery side and bless his days and give him more opportunities to share his story we pray for his boys and Victoria too bless
Them tonight in your name amen thank you very much thank you Andy for