Mitä maahanmuutto maksaa? Tutkija Samuli Salmisen esitelmä | Jyväskylä 26.3.2024

Perussuomalaisten ajatuspaja Suomen Perustan tutkija Samuli Salmisen esitelmä maahanmuuton taloudellisista vaikutuksista. Tapahtuman järjesti Jyväskylän seudun Perussuomalaiset ry.

* Tekstitykset saa auki videon asetuksista *

Alustus:

0:00 Aloitus ja esittely – tutkijan ja tutkimuksen tekemisen tausta
1:04 Tulevan esityksen sisältö – julkiset ulostulot sekä Espoo ja Jyväskylä esimerkkeinä
03:09 HS 4.3.2019: Espoon kaupunginjohtaja Jukka Mäkelä: “Espoolle koituu maahanmuutosta valtavat kustannukset ja valtion pitäisi maksaa niistä suurempi osa, vaatii kaupunginjohtaja Jukka Mäkelä”
03:52 Helsingin uutiset: 2.11.2019: ”[…] väestö kasvaa, mutta verotulot eivät”
4:44 Helsingin Sanomat 2.9.2020: “Perussuomalaisten mukaan toimeentulotuen koronalisä ‘valuu’ maahanmuuttajille ja yksin asuville miehille – HS kävi väitteet läpi”
5:29 Luvut ulostulojen taustalla
6:10 Maahanmuuton kuntakohtainen perustietopaketti – Maahanmuuton kuntakohtaiset tilastotiedot: www.kuntaluvut.fi

8:17 Kuntakohtaisesti julkaistavat tilastotiedot
9:33 Espoo varoittavana esimerkkinä #1
10:52 Tilanne Jyväskylässä vuonna 2020 #1
13:55 Mikä on rahoitusvajeen kokonaissumma kunnallisveroista?
15:36 Espoo varoittavana esimerkkinä #2
16:47 Myös muut puolueet kiinnostuivat: Länsiväylä 23.8.2021
18:23 Tilanne Jyväskylässä vuonna 2020 #2
20:02 ”Väestö kasvaa, mutta verotulot eivät” – Mitä pieniksi jäävien kunnallisverojen taustalla?
23:17 Menopuolen huomiointi: Nettovaikutukset vielä negatiivisemmat Espoon taloudelle
24:27 Lisäksi: palkat ja asumisen kustannukset
24:57 Maahanmuutto ei ole ”rikkaus” noin 90 % Suomen kunnista.
26:14 Maahanmuuton kuntakohtaiset tilastotiedot kuntakarttana löytyvät: www.kuntaluvut.fi

Yleisökysymykset ja kommentit:

27:15 Maahanmuuton haasteet ja kustannukset, mukaan lukien maahanmuuttajien taidot ja integraatioon liittyvät oletukset, COVID-19-pandemian vaikutukset ja huoli maahanmuuttoon liittyvien tilastojen tarkkuudesta.
33:52 Jos Somalit otetaan esille, niin parikymmentä vuotta sitten heitä tuli ihan tavallisen paljon. Onko tutkimusten mukaan kestänyt seitsemän vuotta, että heistä on tullut jollakin lailla tuottavia?
36:55 Maahanmuuttajien aiheuttamat toissijaiset kustannuksia yhteiskunnalle, erityisesti rikosten ja niistä seuraavien kulujen näkökulmasta.

42:05 Kuntaveroja aletaan maksaa vasta 16 000 vuosituloista alkaen
42:30 Artikkeli Ylen sivuilla: “pakolaisiin satsattu raha palautuu nopeasti ja lähes kaksinkertaisena.”
44:17 Pitääkö tilastokeskus mitään tilastoa tulkkipalveluiden käytöstä?
44:56 Maahanmuutto ei ole ratkaisu Suomen matalaan syntyvyyteen tai ikääntyvän väestön ongelmiin, vaan se voi aiheuttaa merkittäviä kustannuksia yhteiskunnalle.
51:02 Käsitteelliset erot maahanmuuttajan ja turvapaikanhakijan välillä. Alkuperäisessä lähtömaassa lomailun problemaattisuus.
56:48 Maahanmuuton vaikutuksista, erityisesti turvapaikanhakijoiden määrästä ja maahanmuuttoviranomaisten kyvyistä käsitellä tapauksia.

59:35 Käännytyslaki ja rajaviranomaisten reaktiota siihen. Rajavartioston kyky hoitaa tehtäviään ja turvata Suomen rajaa.
1:04:13 Kanada on tehnyt ratkaisun, että he ottavat vain naisia ja lapsia, koska nuorista miehistä on ongelmia. Olisiko tämä ratkaisu Suomessakin?
1:07:03 Onko tapahtumassa Euroopan miehittäminen?
1:07:55 Yksilön ihmisarvon, kansainvälisten sopimusten ja Suomen oman turvallisuuden väliset ristiriidat
1:10:26 Kiintiöpakolaisina otettavat määrät
1:11:39 Afrikassa vallitsevat olosuhteet, kuten kuivuus ja köyhyyys, jotka ajavat ihmisiä etsimään parempaa elämää.
1:13:20 Tietyt poliittiset puolueet kannattavat helpompaa maahanmuuttoa ja miten se voi vaikuttaa heidän kannatukseensa tulevissa vaaleissa.
1:15:22 Tulonsiirtoja kannattava puolue tarvitsee ihmisiä, jotka tarvitsevat tulonsiirtoja
1:16:43 Onko terveen järjen käyttö rasismia?

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Uutinen: “Maahanmuuton kustannukset hirvittävät veronmaksajia – ‘Luvut ovat karmeita'” / Suomen Uutiset

Maahanmuuton kustannukset hirvittävät veronmaksajia – ”Luvut ovat karmeita”

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Lisätiedot:

“Suomen Perustan tuore tutkimus: Katso, mitä maahanmuutto maksaa omassa kunnassasi” / Suomen Uutiset

Suomen Perustan tuore tutkimus: Katso, mitä maahanmuutto maksaa omassa kunnassasi

Kuntaluvut.fi – Kuntakohtaiset tilastotiedot maahanmuuttajista vuonna 2020:

https://kuntaluvut.fi

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Esitys saatavilla PDF-muodossa täältä:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mbdl6wzv5wpou9ghz2okf/Maahanmuuton-kuntakohtaiset_Jyvaskyla_26_3_2024.pdf?rlkey=1flh6ye4ziqqqkddnec8oaouz&dl=0

Keskustelun tekstiversio saatavilla PDF-muodossa täältä:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/urw8ewzsbaov43qc9nilx/79-mita-maahanmuutto-maksaa-salminen-jkl.pdf?rlkey=wwqotvuw68efxlcigp4k5t61z&dl=0

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Videoraidalta automaattisesti leikattu pois hiljaiset hetket ajan säästämiseksi. Tästä syystä hyppäyksiä eteenpäin esiintyy myös puheiden aikana.

Kuvaus, ääni ja editointi fin_topsu

Esitetty 26.3.2024

I am Samuli Salminen, From Suomen Perusta, a think tank for True Finns party. I have been doing research related to immigration for ten years . My background is a statistician, and True Finns was looking for a researcher to do this kind of research, which no other entity in Finland had practically

Done at the time and hasn’t done to this day. Then I got chosen and I have done various studies. One of them deals with municipality-specific statistical data on immigration, which can be found online at kuntaluvut.fi. The idea here is that such statistical information would not be

In the background of any report of a couple of hundred pages or in the middle of a report of a couple of hundred pages that can be found somewhere. There is such a thing about these municipality-specific statistical data, but the idea of ​​these websites was that it would be relatively easy to visit.

Go look at the information of your own municipality and give such key figures regarding immigration. Here is the content of the presentation, and there was indeed two hours of time reserved for this, but I really don’t intend to hold any solo talk so long that it lasts like half an hour.

I went to present in Espoo and Vantaa, and it was such an enthusiastic audience that I never made it to the end of this presentation . There were so many comments already in the midst of everything. Then I mentioned this issue, so they politely waited until the end,

But after that there was probably half an hour or an hour of comments in the discussion on immigration, then regarding Turku and regarding the whole of Finland. However, here is the content of this presentation, i.e. the initiative is about what kind of public outputs

The costs brought by immigration have brought about for the municipalities. It has actually acted as a motivation for us that we published these areas, that they were originally published before the last municipal elections or municipal elections, they are now called, and they have been updated every couple of years,

And the plan is to update them with the latest information before next year’s municipal elections. And it is clear from those figures that such basic socio-economic indicators are weaker for immigrants than for the Finnish native population in the majority of Finnish municipalities. The only municipalities where immigrants do better than the native population

Of Finland are some municipalities in Lapland, where there are very few immigrants anyway. So it’s not about any Rovaniemi, but something in smaller municipalities, where there are few people and few immigrants anyway. But in all larger municipalities and cities, the numbers are actually much lower than for the general population.

I use Espoo as a cautionary example, because there, with the mayor, it has been revealed that immigration brings huge costs. And now that we’re in Jyväskylä, I dug up some similar figures about Jyväskylä from the kuntaluvut.fi database. And let’s start here in Espoo, i.e. in Helsingin Sanomat.

It’s been five years since the mayor opened up that Espoo is facing huge costs from immigration and the state should pay a larger part of them. So, even though in many celebratory speeches immigration is said to be a salvation for Finland’s public economy, in fact it has already been advertised for decades,

The reality is that the state is then required to help, even though at the same time it should be wealth. A similar output also came from Vantaa here. I didn’t include that in that presentation, but I have used the same words from there. And what’s the problem with that?

In practice, as the mayor continues, the population will grow, but the tax revenue should actually be here, not the tax revenue per new resident. In other words, the municipalities largely finance the basic services, the schools, social and healthcare services were brought with paid municipal taxes. And then the plan in many municipalities was

That when immigrants came, the assumption was that they would pay the same amount for those services in practical municipal taxes. But then we’re in trouble when this assumption doesn’t match reality. And the second thing the mayor said is that immigrants are then overrepresented in expensive services,

Such as unemployment services and then, among other things, in special education. And one such outburst was here a few years ago in connection with a report I previously published in connection with the foundation, which dealt with the income support received by immigrants. We published the statistical result in the report

That immigrants receive slightly more than 40 percent of the subsistence allowance paid in the capital region. And then the chapter was brought up in the parliament, Perussuomalaiset brought. Helsingin Sanomat was skeptical about whether it could be true. I went to ask Kela about it, and it turned out

That the figure is actually already 50 percent. So the number we announced was 50 percent. Just over 40 percent. It was 2018. And this news mentioned it. What are the numbers behind the excretory law here? We know that in the capital region, about

Half of those who make a living can speak foreign languages. But what is the situation with other social organizations? For example, those unemployment benefits and then housing benefits. What about the situation in other municipalities? That news question. Sometimes the capital region. Especially in big cities. And what is the situation by immigrant group?

And that is indeed the exit in Espoo. What does that mean in euros in light of statistical data? That tax revenues do not increase per person, even though the population is growing. And this is what we aim to answer here with the municipality-specific basic information package on immigration.

So here you can find information about all 309 municipalities in Finland. It has not been possible to publish information about some municipalities due to Statistics Finland’s data protection practices, if there are too few immigrants. And all these results are from Statistics Finland’s register data.

In other words, Statistics Finland has a register of all Finnish residents. There is accurate information about all of us in the registers of Statistics Finland, that we have paid a lot of taxes on the one hand. And then, on the other hand, we may have received a lot of different subsidies.

That is, they can be found with the accuracy of a euro there for each year. And we’ve had them mostly for research use for ten years now. And that information also shows the person’s country of birth. And also what is the country of birth of the person’s parents.

That is how it has been possible to find out the figures regarding second generation immigrants as well. And also that who belongs to the Finnish regular population. And right now, those municipal figures are right there, they apply to 2020. And what I’m presenting here, especially the overall figures,

When you look at the total amount of subsidies received, of course they increase year by year, when more immigrants come. And like I said, we’re trying to update next year’s municipal elections like this. That is, we are trying to get them for 2022. That is, Statistics Finland’s registers are always a couple of

Years behind the current situation. That the latest information is always used. So from Ukrainian refugees? They are not in this 2020 data. And when we publish the 2022 data, as you can see, there are a few different groups of immigrants into which all immigrants are divided separately.

And by far the worst are the immigrants from the Near East. The chapters concerning them are separate. So, for example, those Ukrainians do not belong to that group. But there are also all immigrants in total. So what was published there? Well, the social benefits received. A few key benefit categories.

Then the most important measures of success at that time , such as employment rates. And actually wage and self-employment income tells you more precisely, because the definition of the employment rate can vary. And then, especially among immigrants, there are more part-time and fixed-term workers. Then the wage and self-employed incomes tell you better

How much work has been done. You don’t know what that salary was. And the educational challenges can be found there. And from the point of view of the finances of the municipalities, although it may not be such a media-sexy topic, you can find the municipal taxes paid, when they really decide,

You can’t afford it. Can the municipal taxes paid be used to finance the basic municipal services? And as I will point out, those municipalities’ finances cannot survive the fact that immigrants pay them very little on average. Municipal taxes. Then comes the funding phase for financing those services. Especially if it has been assumed

That those immigrants who came to the municipality would pay the same amount of municipal taxes. And then you would contribute just as much to financing their services. Here is a repeat of the mayor’s statement. And then we go to these numbers themselves. That is, as I mentioned,

That we have the numbers except for all immigrants in total. That’s how you can find a few of the biggest groups of immigrants broken down here . So let’s start with this, how many people have received income support in the population. In the large refugee countries,

Or in the countries where you came from, more than half of the 18-64-year-olds received income support in 2020. And in the Finnish population, the share was approximately one-tenth of this. So here is a picture of the store from the kuntaluvut.fi website. That is, the desired information has been selected from there.

And we want to see what is the proportion of people aged 18-64 who received income support . So do those from Somalia, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. So more than half of working-age people received income support in 2020 in Espoo. And in the native Finnish population, the share was just under 6 percent.

In other words, ten times the number of people who came from refugee countries received income support. More than half of the working age population. Well, the same share has been here in Jyväskylä. Here, more than 60 percent of working-age people who came from refugee countries received income support in 2020.

Of the Finnish native population, approximately one in ten working-age people received income support in 2020. Here is this image capture from the kuntaluvut.fi website regarding Jyväskylä. What was the share of these total living allowances paid in 2020. All people with a foreign background received about one sixth of that,

A little more than all the living allowances that have been paid here in Jyväskylä. And of the residents of Jyväskylä over the age of 14, it seems to be less than 10 percent. Only a good 10 percent, who have a foreign background, so there is quite a lot of overrepresentation.

Not only regarding those refugees, but they have the most blatant overrepresentation. So here is still this share of all paid subsistence allowances in Jyväskylä. And then on that same site, as I said, you can also find other supports regarding this kind of information. So here it is regarding unemployment benefits. So how many?

Here in Jyväskylä, the population aged 18-64 received unemployment benefits in 2020. Now, if we look at the refugee countries, at least 75 percent, at least three quarters, received unemployment benefits during 2020. That is, an overwhelming majority. In fact, that figure is actually higher, but I have limited it

To 75 percent for data protection reasons, because otherwise if we start to approach 100 percent in those published figures, then it almost reveals that everyone from this population, all adults from this population, receives some kind of support. Yes, Statistics Finland’s data protection rules don’t allow that ,

So I’ve limited it to 75 percent, but it’s actually a bit higher than that figure. I don’t remember exactly how much. But at least 75 percent. All those with a foreign background, just over 40 percent, received unemployment benefits during 2020. And the Finnish native population 28 percent. That is, overrepresentation,

Especially in refugee countries, and then all those with a foreign background, so there is a clear overrepresentation there as well. Here is the image from that kuntaluvut.fi website. Those refugee countries were 75 percent of that. That’s where all the people with a foreign background are. That is, on that website, if it works,

That comparison has been made easier. That’s always the municipality. There is another piece of information. And then it always has the number of that immigrant group, but right below it is always the number of the native population, so that you can easily compare them. That is, there was that support information.

And then here we come to municipal taxes. That is, as I said earlier, the mayor of Hesboo said that when immigrants come, the population grows, but tax revenues do not. And I have calculated on that website, from the register materials of the Statistics Finland, how much less immigrants pay in municipal taxes,

How much immigrants contribute to financing the basic services of those municipalities, measured in euros, compared to the corresponding size of the native population. So for the whole of Finland, of course, this is reported by municipality, but for the whole of Finland, immigrants paid about 640 million euros less in municipal taxes in 2020

Than a group of the same size belonging to the Finnish population. In other words, the assumption is often made that immigrants, their impact on the public finances, how much they use subsidies and pay taxes, is similar to that of the native population. But then when we look at the statistics,

Which numbers are actually there. From these Statistics Finland register materials, this assumption simply does not meet reality. And then, at the end of the day , we end up with the kind of statements that Espoo’s city manager made. So, for example, in this case, immigrants do not

Pay as much municipal taxes as the Finnish native population, but for the whole of Finland, they paid 640 million euros less than the Finnish native population, a Finnish native population of the same size. So here is a concrete number in euros for the fact that mites means that the population is growing,

But tax revenues are not. So for Espoo, it was 133 million euros in 2020 . That means that when you look at Espoo’s population with an immigrant background, a correspondingly large group belonging to Espoo’s native population pays 133 million euros more in taxes. And indeed, as I recall in Espoo, when Espoo,

That is, the municipality, brought from the budget, as I recall, then half was covered by municipal taxes, so it’s a really big dent in the municipality’s economy if it’s assumed that immigrants pay the same amount of municipal taxes as the native population, but that’s not the case.

Here is this same chapter from that website. And what is behind that overall figure is that the municipal taxes of immigrants were only approximately half of the number of the native population. And this chapter even includes senior citizens. If we only looked at the working age population,

That figure would actually be even lower. And as I said to Henri here, Jyväskylä was apparently not enthusiastic about finding out these figures, the municipal officials. So I originally published these numbers from the beginning of 2021. And typically, Valtamedia is not necessarily interested in them. But then you come across them

Little by little in different contexts. A few months after the publication of those numbers, Piia Kauma of the coalition found out or asked Espoo’s officials what the amount of municipal taxes paid by immigrants in Espoo is. I bet it’s no coincidence that he asked that just when I had published the figures.

That it could give someone a look gave it a boost. That is, this had not been clarified for decades, and then it could have happened just after that. But that’s okay. Espoo’s officials replied that in 2019, a member of the regular population paid around 5,800 euros in municipal tax,

While it remained at that 2,800 euros for someone speaking a foreign language. That is, towards you. And that chapter is practically identical to what I have published. And Kauma also made it a written question to the parliament, and that’s how those numbers would become public. So those numbers can really be explained.

They are all available in Statistics Finland’s registers . In Espoo, the officials actually managed to figure it out. You can definitely find out here as well. For what kind of officials it is, by contacting the Statistics Finland. Or by asking the officials in Espoo what they can do about it.

What can they do in that and they haven’t succeeded here. That you can definitely get a tip for that from there. And indeed, as I mentioned the numbers that those officials found out, they were completely identical to what we have published. Which is no wonder, because they certainly have the same original source,

The Statistics Finland’s register materials. And this funding deficit here in Jyväskylä in 2020 was 12.5 million euros. In other words, the immigrant population here in Jyväskylä paid a ton less in municipal taxes in 2020 than a group of the same size as members of the Finnish population.

That is, if here too it has been assumed that when immigrants come to Jyväskylä, that they will finance the basic services of the municipalities in the same way , even though they belong to the regular population. So it’s gone to the forest. That’s how the conversation with the transport went.

In other words, in reality they finance them by almost 13 million euros less. And this is the same thing as in Esvoo. In other words, the average of an immigrant’s municipal taxes is slightly half of the average of the native population. And this still includes even those pensioners

Who do not pay that much in municipal taxes even as part of the general population. That if we were to cover only the working age, the number would be even more barren. Here is this same chapter from that website. And these funding gaps grow every year.

So here is the year 2018 on the left and the year 2020 on the right. So when there are more immigrants who fare worse than the Finnish native population, that funding gap also grows year by year. And what is there in the background for Jyväskylä, for example, as concretely as wages and

Employment rates. Here in Jyväskylä, the wage and self-employment income of people with a foreign background was only slightly more than half of the wages of the general population. Here we are now looking at the working-age 25-60 year olds . That is, the average of the Finnish regular population was almost 31,000 euros.

And 17,000 euros for those with an immigrant background, which is really little. It is a little over 1,000 euros. It seems to be strong and 1,500 euros per month. And this is about those in prime working age. And then if we look at each immigrant group, we can see from there

That the media of wage and self-employment income was exactly zero euros for refugees with a background in 2000. In fact, it should be there during 2020. Which means it for people with a refugee background who are of prime working age, i.e. 25-60 years old. Of those

Who are supposed to finance this living of society’s non-working people, more than half of them had no wage and self-employment income at all during the entire year of 2020, from refugee backgrounds living here in Jyväskylä. Then when you look at the employment rates, the employment rate of all people with immigrant backgrounds

Is almost 20 percentage points lower than for the general population. In other words, you can’t really call this an economic success story, that Finland is being conquered, at least at first the bigger cities are full of immigrants. So these numbers are really harsh, that immigrants on average fare

Very poorly compared to the Finnish population when measured through such basic economic indicators . In other words , half of the regular population is understated in the wage and self-employed income averages . I would say that if you could find a socio-economic group belonging to the regular population with similar figures,

It would be considered a real disaster. Here is the salary of the media of refugee countries in 2020 in Jyväskylä, i.e. it was exactly zero euros during the whole year. Here is the employment rate for all immigrants. That is, the employment rate of 18-64 year olds, just as the statistics office calculates

The employment rate for that age group, was less than 50 percent for people with a foreign background. Of course, it varies by immigrant group again. For the Kanta population, it was just under 66 percent. I guess I don’t come to Jyväskylä so precisely, but here it is so much lower than in Finland

As a whole, which can be seen from the top left corner probably because there aren’t very many students from here. In terms of the economy of the municipality as a whole, mainly the financial side has been discussed here, but it is also worth remembering the expenditure side.

A few subsidies were discussed there, and the municipalities actually pay some of them directly. Of course, some of them go through the state, but it’s good to remember that immigrants are overrepresented in other services as well. Just as the mayor of Espoo said that people with immigrant backgrounds are overrepresented in,

For example, expensive unemployment services. Then emeritus professor Matti Viren, who works based on Finland. Today, the CEO has calculated that when the immigrant population increases by one percent, the municipalities’ spending per person increases by one percent. That is, those expenses grow faster than the population grows. And then

The opposite happens on the income side. In other words, the income coming to the municipality grows more slowly than the population grows as a result of immigration. And then direct alternatives to these. In addition to incentives for immigrants, it is good to remember that immigration lowers wages in certain sectors.

This has been found in the capital region. Researcher at Statistics Finland, and then a couple of years ago this economics dissertation also appeared, where this was also stated. And the cost of living. Even in the housing program of the city of Espoo, it says that immigration has increased the prices of apartments

For rent in Espoo. And then, if you look not only at Espoo, but at Jyväskylä. But the whole of Finland. So then we notice that immigration is not wealth in quotation marks. Why does it always have to be said in a speech ? So in most municipalities in Finland.

In other words, in the majority of Finnish municipalities, immigrants receive more subsidies than the general population. And here is the share of Finnish municipalities where immigrants receive more subsidies on average than the Finnish population. And indeed those municipalities where immigrants receive less support than the Finnish population. If there are any small municipalities

Where there are very few immigrants anyway. And here is also by group. In other words, practically all municipalities in Finland where there are refugees receive more subsidies than the regular population. And what is a bit surprising, even Western immigrants receive more subsidies than the regular population in most of Finland’s municipalities. And then,

If we look at how we got on when we compare salaries, in almost all municipalities in Finland, practically all groups of immigrants have salaries lower than the salary of the general population. And then the employment rate is lower. And the municipal taxes paid, which are vital for those services,

Are lower than for the general population. As I said earlier, that it is very difficult to find such a solution to the problems of Finland’s public finances from immigration. And also to the financial problems of the municipalities. And then I will really end this presentation with the fact

That everyone can check out those numbers on the kuntaluvut.fi website. And as I said, in Espoo, for example, the officials clarified the numbers on request. And they were exactly the same as the ones there. And their source is there in Statistics Finland’s register material. And they are really impossible to use.

And I would think that if the municipal officials get in touch, they will be done there as an assignment at the end of Statistics Finland. That is, the numbers I presented here. Yes, if you want. And there is a will. Yes, the municipal officials can find them out through Statistics Finland.

And you can ask Espoo for advice. Yeah, thanks for watching the show. Yeah. Some are for a long time. You are doing the most important job of bringing these up. And has been following for a long time. That’s my own version of it in 2015. Before 30,000

Young people from the border troops came to communications from there. Before that the cost and after. That’s the clearest division. You brought up the fact that it is assumed that there will be high-paid and skilled workers and whatever. And no one can assume

If there are large numbers of people sent after the good life . That there are no angels. At least all of them. That you are immediately recruited and come here. No one can make such an assumption. Then came. Then I had a conversation with Vartaalain. And then this Corona thing. Its announcement.

I don’t remember now. It must have been done in 75 languages, that corona. Stay safe and wear a mask. And so on, so on. Of course, even that kind of cost alone. And I had a conversation with one of the teachers. That class once and for all. All those closest to us.

They were all immigrants. And he then applied to a nearby municipality in the capital region to become a teacher. It was absolutely impossible. Time for a newly graduated female teacher. In some way, take those finances or teaching forward in general. And so what. It’s always those stats when they’re behind.

That Ukraine is not. And you said that now for the first time it will be cleaned. And so much more. That it’s always been a problem. That is, where are they in the statistics. Even where they are. Always behind. I used to collect them myself. So I was satisfied with

What Statistics Finland said. It is the reliable foundation for this entire golden number. That’s where you got them from. The figures for that year, which have usually been available. Yeah, I could comment on those. That is, indeed, the 2015 asylum seeker Rushing here. Maybe that’s what brought this phenomenon.

A phenomenon, at least from those who come here illegally, to people’s awareness. And all the mild phenomena that came with it. But that’s all I could comment on. So we have this information since 1990. So Statistics Finland has comprehensive registers that go back 30 years. And you can also see

How good or bad they are. Those immigrants who have come. As in practice since 1990. So how have they fared. Even among the general public. Maybe that 2015 was the one that brought. Or let’s say the more harmful part of immigration. As well as general awareness. So practically all those

Who have come from that vicinity. Maybe some Iraqis who came in the 80s. Unschoolers, of whom there were a couple of hundred here. And it was probably for a completely different reason when you came here as an asylum seeker. Otherwise, it has turned out just as bad in practice.

That is, those who came in the 90s, those who came in the first decade of the 2000s. And since 2015 has come, things have been just as bad. In other words, I have a report coming regarding the figures for the whole of Finland. So I’m also doing a change study regarding municipalities.

That’s how I present figures regarding those who came in 2015 . And then regarding all those who came from these refugee countries. And those figures are very similar. That is, it is a blatant overrepresentation in the social benefits received. And that employment rate and wages, as seen here, are really low.

But in the figures calculated per person, there is no radical difference between those who came in 2015 compared to those who came before. So, in practice, both have done just as badly. And I have presented in 2019, I published such a huge study, where we used just these long time series as data.

The fact that we have been able to follow for 30 years how those who came from these countries, especially Somalia and Iraq, have fared here. Or how they haven’t fared. So I presented that there is a net effect of the public finances. When you calculate the taxes paid,

Minus the social benefits received for the entire lifetime, i.e. from that point until death in practice, the net for the Finnish taxpayer is about one million euros on average. That is, about one person who has come from these countries. And it’s not really those numbers that are caused by those that

Came in 2015, but it is already visible from those that came before that. They have done just as badly as in 2015. Back then, 2015 brought so much at once that it somehow broke the news threshold. At least I had, I quickly tried to mark here,

So brought schools for example in the capital region, it’s a well-known phenomenon, for example, that especially families with small, under-school-aged children move away from the capital region. Because they want to move to an area where they can be sure that their children can go to a safe school.

In practice, therefore, to the area where there are no students from that Near East. I have published such a database where you can view the capital region by region. It’s lähioluvut.fi, that address. From there, you can see how big a share is in the area of ​​the capital region, from the 60s.

Of the 16-year-olds, for example, from the Near East. But it’s true, not only the fact I brought up, but there is also separate research on that, that families with children move either away from the capital region, or if they can afford it, then move to a few expensive areas within the capital region,

Which in practice for those who came from the Near East can afford to change. And where isn’t there a lot of social housing. I had another point, but maybe we can go to the next comment or question. If you brought up the Somalis, twenty years ago there were quite a lot of them.

Have you read the studies that it took seven years to somehow get them to be productive? It was a myth that was presented a few years ago that it lasts seven years. Integrated. I remember being talked about. It was said on some morning TV broadcast, but it is not true.

It has no apparent factual basis. As I said that immigration is advertised as a savior of the public finances, in fact the one point I had here, almost if you follow Yle or other mainstream media, then the same thing is repeated almost every day. That immigration is wealth. We need immigrants.

Immigrants pay for our pensions. This is just one version of it. I remember that myth. It was maybe seven years ago. It was a certain morning TV show. Then it was just a matter of repeating the bean walk. I remember that we published these numbers about it. We have somewhat less visibility

Than when we are on Yle. But we always try to answer them. But it has no factual basis. In other words, those who came closest, their salaries will be far behind the regular population after 20-25 years. And it also does not apply to those immigrants who were born abroad.

But it also applies to their children born in Finland, who have therefore attended schools and daycare centers here and others, if there have been any. But born in Finland. We actually published the income support report a couple of years ago. That’s how we published information about the second generation’s income support.

One such piece of information, which might have been in a local newspaper such as Helsinki Uitis, was that 75 percent of 19-year-old second-generation Somalis received income support. That is, of the persons who were born in Finland, just under three quarters of the 20-year-olds received income support. Of course, that is the age

When you usually get the most income support. But for the regular population, as I recall, that number is about 15 percent. That’s how the second generation, which was born in Finland , gets multiple income support there . That is, in the light of any basic socio-economic figures, that integration is not really happening

In that second generation too. And I just published the report about the whole of Finland. So it has the latest information about the second generation. Just the receipt of income support and also what proportion has, for example, gone to second level, or completed a second level degree.

And I can reveal the most recent information enough to tell the same thing that this integration will not happen in another generation either. Yes, if we get Kaisa. Yeah, thanks. It’s really amazing that you can get quite a lot of information here. But these are the only numbers these immigrants can support.

But then just halfway through. About the use of interpreters and all data interpretation, special education, S2 language. And then these crimes, i.e. trials and then the penal institution. That is, how many expenses are there, other expenses than these mere subsidies, which the state pays. Yes, there are quite a lot of them.

For example, for crimes such as sex offenders, the Middle East is overrepresented in prisons. These rapes and such, that’s the most from the Middle East. And then again, what costs we cannot calculate. So these raped and abused children, for example in Oulu these abuses came to light,

What had been raped in that toilet at school. So one young girl. So, for example, therapy for those children. And what costs this society needs. That they are difficult to figure out. And they’re all on top of that, right? Yes, this is absolutely true. In fact, that was the other point,

Which I had written down here. That it should be mentioned that in these municipal figures, some of the most important receipts of subsidies have been unearthed . And then, especially from the point of view of municipalities , what is decisive and functional is that municipal taxes. But let’s see if

In terms of the public finances as a whole, there will be many more of these now. It is said that from the point of view of the municipalities, there is just this, for example, special training on the receiving side. So it’s a matter

That, at least for the time being, remains for the municipalities to figure out. I do have such a goal that I would get the information from the Statistics Finland’s register materials available at some point. So, just a week ago, I expressed the wish to Statistics Finland

That such comprehensive register materials could be obtained for the whole of Finland . In the same way, when you have the support information, you would also receive special training. But as far as I can see, the Statistics Finland doesn’t have them yet . That’s how it is in practice

Since the municipal decision-makers. Here, too, the task remains to try to find out. And the same goes for those interpretation costs. Speaking of crimes, it was good when the Central Criminal Police, I think it was a month ago, published its solution. It was just about those second generation immigrants. That is, those

Who were born in Finland. For those with an immigrant background, the overrepresentation is probably 4 or 5 times higher in violent crimes. But that included all second-generation immigrants combined. So, if you were to look at people with similar backgrounds, I would guess that the overrepresentation would be many times over.

What has emerged regarding those so-called first-generation immigrants. Eli Optula, the Legal Research Institute, already 10 years ago published such a crime report, which showed that the overrepresentation of those who came from that neighborhood was, as I recall, 15 times that of you. And that overrepresentation also remained, even if you standardize it.

Such socio-economic background factors and gender distribution would be taken into account. That’s all I could mention is that one of our research projects is investigating the costs of immigration crime. In the study where I pointed out that the average net cost to you is a million euros,

Those figures include the costs of crimes, but they are only direct costs. So, especially in violent crimes, what makes it expensive for society is precisely the fact that it costs a lot to rehabilitate the victims. As I recall, many times over. What are the costs of blaming someone.

And then, even though the cost days of imprisonment is quite high, it is still many times as far as I remember. The indirect costs of rehabilitating the victims, in the crime report, which hopefully will be published at some point , I will also include those indirect

Costs. That is, it is one of the most important research topics, which we are trying to get done. And there would also be a special focus on that second generation. But really, some of those costs remain to be solved at the municipal level. But that special training, I think

It’s a pretty big deal, what comes from an immigrant. So we will try to make it available at some point in time, then the information there via Statistics Finland, but for now. The municipalities then have to figure it out themselves. Yes, this kind of general comment is

That you only start paying municipal taxes from an annual income of 16,000 , right? Isn’t that the case? I think you know better, but that would certainly explain the results quite well. I remember when I did this research, I thought that it is actually quite a complicated system, how to calculate.

That many other things also affect it. I have this one. There is an article like this on the main pages here, that the money invested in the refugees returns quickly and almost double. And then it says that tax revenues will increase and the age structure will correct. So how can such

An article still be on the general pages, even though we have such information here. That it’s like this. Well, that’s one version of that, as if we’re going to settle down in seven years. But there is more information here. When we published these statistical data for the first time in 2015,

It was practically unique. But now, in the last ten years, there are at least a few other such studies based on Statistics Finland’s register statistics. That State Economic Research Center in 2017 published such an article regarding precisely these people with a refugee background. The development of their employment, income and received subsidies versus

The native population, those numbers remained very far from the native population figures after 15 years in the country. And they are exactly the same figures as what I have published. No wonder they have the same source. So this is simply not true. I remember Tonk’s article well. And even then, I vaguely remember

That it was answered somehow. These numbers were brought up. It may be that I even made a short video for Riikka Purranka about it. At that time, Purra was either a political planner or a political planner. Yeah, this is from the Lord. Does Statistics Finland keep any statistics

On the use of interpreting services. But really welfare area-specific and municipality-specific. At least as far as I know, there are no such register materials. If it were, I would have them in use. That is, for example, that those refugees pay an average of one million per person. So it’s missing some key things.

Just like, for example, those interpretation services are missing from that million euro net cost. Yeah, there. Let’s turn things around a bit. In other words, the total fertility rate, i.e. the birth rate in Finland, is extremely low. That’s right, this Finnish native tribe will slowly disappear. But is immigration,

As was brought up here about the age structure, a solution to that? If the cost impact of those immigrants is so bear, what is presented here now. In other words, will we be able to fix the missing Finnish stock tribe and population with that immigration ? Can’t do it.

Of course, there are many other aspects to this than these financial aspects. Which is good to keep in mind. I initially commented on that, that the immigration figures are quite shaky. Now let’s see how many people will come here in total. Let’s get rid of those Ukrainians.

And so they are not all just refugees. That’s enough to promote our future stuff. In Finland, for some reason, no population forecast has been made for the whole of Finland regarding the increase in the share of the immigrant population. Which is at least quite essential for many of Finland’s founders.

Or perhaps one of the most relevant issues concerning the future of society. Or you’d think it would be interesting. One of the most important research topics is to make a population forecast of the foreign population. That is, if immigrants come to Finland at this rate .

Indeed, the fertility rate of the native population is really low. The population changes quite quickly. It is noticeable in the capital region, especially by region. In other words, in many areas in the capital region, the share of people with a foreign background was still a couple of percent 30 years ago.

But now it is easily 70 percent, especially among those of school age. And it has happened in twenty years. That change. Indeed, these numbers suggest that this is not the solution to Finland’s aging population problems. Because of that. Because those numbers are simply so poor for those immigrants on average.

Of course, there are immigrants who come, for example, for high-paying jobs that require higher education. But it’s only a very small proportion. For example, from outside the EU. It could be a rule of thumb that one out of 20 immigrants comes with the permission of such a special expert.

So these get an overemphasized role in it. That what immigration is promoted and advertised to be like. That’s the kind of real immigrants that you basically hire at least one week with the regular population. So is approximately one in 20 people coming from outside the EU .

That is, because those numbers are so weak. Neither is immigration the solution to Finland’s aging population. And if only the age structure of the population could decide. That is, well-being. The executive director of our think tank wrote just yesterday . When Hesari brought up how low the Finnish birth rate is.

So in practice Afrikantoi. Many countries should be real welfare states. Because there are so many young compared to old. But it’s not really the age structure that’s the deciding factor. Is it some state welfare state or not. And if there are so few of those children.

That’s part of the costs of raising children . Then they can be used for old age services. And it’s also good to remember that staring at the age structure is very short-sighted. Because immigrants are also getting older. So it is said

That it is academically and also from a practical point of view the relevant way. And how is it usually calculated. Is a project related to public finances profitable? That the life cycle costs are calculated. Because it’s not about one or two years. And when immigrants come here too.

And if we look, for example, at humanitarian immigrants. So most of them stay here in Finland for the rest of their lives. So in the study that we published in 2019. That’s exactly how we calculated these net costs over the entire life cycle . And it’s like a million on average.

One million per immigrant. The goal is that we also publish other immigrants. As for these humanitarian and these life cycle impact calculations. But they have been done elsewhere in Europe. For example in the Netherlands. Of which, though, being at the research center has been in contact.

With these other results being very similar to ours. So they have made life cycle impact calculations. Also for other immigrant groups. So according to their results. So there are practically only immigrants useful to Holland . From the West and East Asia. That is, from Japan and Korea.

Immigrants who come either to work or to study. So it’s a very small group of those immigrants. And because those other results. For example, from this Dutch study. Are very similar to what is here. I suspect that after we get the life cycle impact calculations done. That those results also apply to Finland.

The results are similar. That is, those immigrants who can do almost as well in Finland. When the Finnish population is concerned with these figures. This is precisely the case with immigrants from Western countries. In practice, immigrants who came from Western countries to study or work . Yeah, there Mr. Takarivisto.

But that’s two concepts. Is an immigrant and is an asylum seeker. So how does this differ? That when there is a trip to the border and they say asylum. So how long can he stay here and run around. That if necessary, he exists instead of the end

Here in a different kind of support. And when the immigrant is someone who comes after work. When there are these two concepts. So black, they are a bit different things. Then the fact that you got here with some kind of human revenge. Stick to this system. It’s time to work.

Then we start life support. Then it’s time. Then he goes to the country from where they left. That they have been persecuted there and lost their lives. Then we’ll go on vacation. Isn’t it so that you could then go back there to your own happiness. Wind to do and keep working.

When the wind blows, stay here and spin then. And he won’t come then, what the hell. That he goes there on vacation. That this is too loose. This system in Finland. And how it works in other countries. Because now these numbers are so rough. That this situation cannot continue like this in Finland.

Yeah, you’re right about that. Especially those from the Middle East and North Africa. Yes, those numbers are really harsh. As calculated. So you have a million per fire and on average during its entire lifetime. That asylum seeker is a bit of a technical term. But that is unfortunately the current practice.

It’s such a magic word. That’s just saying it’s borderline. Then the gates open. Although in principle there should be border control. That it is also such an unfortunate practice. That it doesn’t seem to matter terribly. That it will be granted asylum or not. So many of those people will stay here anyway.

We have been proposed as the foundation of Finland years ago. That we shouldn’t take these so-called asylum seekers from outside Europe. Or if they come here. So they would be driven to safety outside of Europe. That is, Britannia has been planning the so-called ruonda model for many years .

Which has now become public. Which is therefore strongly supported in this school of thought where there is work. That means that if an asylum seeker comes here. So he is automatically flown. Outside Europe to a safe country. And what about this system if and when it can be created that way.

And hopefully it will be created. It’s so impressive that it’s easy to guess. That the number of applicants will collapse immediately. Because in practice these people who come here. So it costs tens of thousands of euros or dollars for a human smuggler. So that they can get to the EU area.

But if that goal is, say, Rwanda or another safe country outside the EU. So who would pay that amount for a trip to Rwanda. I’m guessing not too many. And that’s where they really need help. Yes, there are, depending a little on the evaluator. But the rule of thumb is

That it is a hundred times more effective to help in refugee camps than here. That is, at the price of what they say, even one young man will be helped here in quotation marks. That way you could help a hundred people. Which is in need of real smoke there in the refugee camps.

That’s okay. That’s how it was with those other immigration channels. They get a little confused about someone who has come here as an asylum seeker. So it can, if it doesn’t mean to get that asylum. So it can try to get some handy work. Which would help him get that residence permit.

And that might sound good. That they come to Finland to work or study. But the number of applicants is increasing from somewhere in Nigeria and Bangladesh. Why would I say strong doubt. That it might just be a way to get to the EU area. The fact that we apply here to study.

And the goal is to publish statistical information about them as well. That how well those Nigerian and Bangladeshi students. Or at least to study with papers. As those who came here have managed. And most of them come from outside the EU to work in Finland. That should be kept in mind.

So comes here either to clean. Or as kitchen workers. Or, for example, as auxiliary workers in agriculture. So I would say that those parties who promote. That tens of thousands of people in Finland would be brought to Finland along this route . So they should set up better.

How can the Finnish economy be boosted by bringing thousands of cleaners here. Outside of Europe annually. Always new, new thousands of cleaners. Now I don’t really see how such a modern post-industrial society can be brought to economic growth. With immigration like this. Especially when it is taken into account that their family

Members will then also come to Finland. Which does really poorly here on average. That is, by bringing in thousands of cleaners, restaurant workers and their family members. So how would such an economy, which lives on information technology and exports, be brought to a new rise.

Shall we take it from the front for a change? Immigrant or asylum seeker. It is that image that is really invading the country these days. You asked how many are coming here. As a statistician. In the future. If everything leaks and this is how it goes. And things like that.

So one morning there’s a bit older here. There’s a million here. Several hundred million refugees are coming. If the borders are not really opened, then unlimited people will come here. Then why did I take the floor. Here, the MP’s crimes and others were brought up. Now, here in Finland, this jurisprudence is

Very self-aware. It would be enough by itself. Their education and experience, professionalism, is not enough to deal with these who have been genociders and others here in Finland. Say, this is none of your business, but the guy has received a negative asylum decision seven times.

To Taulunmäki or wherever it needs to be taken. But if I commit a crime. So I get to complain once, maybe twice. And the judgment is what has changed or not. How can a guy apply seven times for some kind of justification. If I came here from Syria,

I would pretty much lie about a lot of things. How do you find out if I’m in some African league and I’ve been punished and whatever. Then you would look for a woman, where are you from? I love you, would say on the first night. And if you marry mostly people,

Let it be ulpa. And then there is the free crossing of the entire Schengen area. We don’t care who here can figure it out when ten thousand dudes come. That would reliably include those backgrounds. It is absolutely impossible. Yeah, totally agree. You said that if the borders are open.

In practice, that border is open with that magic word at Asailun’s moment. In practice, you can realistically come here for tens of thousands of thousands of iterations. That is why it has been proposed, for example , on the basis of Finland, that one should also follow the trump cards, countries and party examples

That get here. That they won’t stay here for years, regardless of whether they get asylum or not. That’s why we’ve caused the rudda model, because otherwise there are enough of those coming. There is no upper limit. That conversion law just came and the border guard made a very strong statement

That they don’t carry out their duties. They don’t dare to get involved and actually all the protection from prosecution and so on. They have asked those elements that they can work. For the first time since the war, the border guard would seriously have to do a bit of work.

Now he washes them in his hands. And even if we have a limit of 1300 kilometers. Every meter would have our people and NATO soldiers. From there, 10,000 dudes come from Iijarjoi in some time period. They say that they will eat bread and bring it to the tent.

That this is how it goes. Now it’s the conversion law. Will it pass five out of six parts in parliament? And Pöystin has made a statement on that. This is completely out of your business. The police and the swamp and all. It is absolutely necessary to get.

We have information that goes to Jyväskylä’s Arabsom. Now we really stop there. In other words, does it go from there? It’s not in front of us if someone has paid $10,000 for some Marta. Or swam across the Vistula. Will 10,000 pay back? They are completely secondary. When talking about Finland’s security.

One extreme child is involved. It’s thrown here in a family style. It’s about to continue being part of that family. Now I have spoken. Yeah, that’s true. That information passes. And that is exactly what is confirmed by research in this field. It’s such a self-feeding phenomenon that the countries

Where a group of asylum seekers have come, then easily more people come to those countries, because the word gets out there. There will be those relatives or so-called relatives. That word simply travels to those countries of origin, but that word also travels quickly in that case ,

If it is not possible to get here. That’s exactly the solution. Most of the country really focuses on these statistical results here, but our executive director Simmo Grönroos, who is a former basic Finnish party secretary, has made these guidelines, in which I have also been involved. It has just been proposed

To bring Valtti and Poland, and it’s not even necessary to follow these countries, but Norway has also passed a similar law already in 2015 or 2016. They just simply decided that they will turn away asylum seekers from Russia at the border, and that’s it.

And from there, in any case, the group will get over, one way or another, so they shouldn’t, if you want to end that rally, then you shouldn’t give such a chance to stay here. Like Australia already did ten years ago, they made it the advertising campaign that if you try to get there,

Like Vesi did it to Australia, then you have no chance to get there. We can follow that example, i.e. the Rwanda model, it doesn’t have to happen in Rwanda, so in practice an activity that ensures that if it comes here, it has really paid for itself painfully,

We don’t have to worry about that, then if the destination is there in Rwanda, or somewhere outside the EU area, it will end very quickly, you can guarantee it. It depends on what is done to them when they come here. It is true

That if they are taken there to Rwanda or another safe country, then it will be realized that they are safe, but that is probably what most people know, at least let’s say realistically, about this type of immigration. Maybe there can be a bit more idealistic point of view

Among the greens and the left , but those who take a more realistic approach to this probably understand that the majority of these newcomers really want a better life, and if that real destination is the EU region outside, where you get safety, but you don’t get a better life,

Then it ends very quickly. But if they are taken in here, and in return, if we do practically the same as in 2015, then the rally will not end there. That is, if it is allowed to stay here in practice, then the rally will not end there. Yeah. I have read somewhere

That Canada has made such a decision, that they take few women and children, because there are problems with young men, so is there a solution here, so that there shouldn’t be so many of those men? You probably have to be careful with the fact that, of course, if such a policy were made,

It would certainly be noticed immediately in Russia, so there could be quite a number of those women and children there. And then the other point is that if it were to be taken in here, then the men would easily join the family together. To this Stubb suggested that we take them from there.

Stubbhan performed. Oh yeah. And proposed that, among other things, the children from there, that they would then be taken. Okay, the thing is that those men would probably come with the family together, if they tried to prevent it, then these so-called human rights Taliban would be in the voice again,

And even that would hardly be the solution. And as I said earlier, that helping on the spot is at least several dozen times more effective , depending on the evaluator . That is, the refugees will not end, and the really needy ones will not end by taking them here.

Finland’s resources will run out much, much sooner. That is, there is a British economist who has also suggested that we help on the spot instead of taking these people who really need help to Europe, so as I recall, he has calculated that it would only be a hundred times more effective. That means

That for the price of one person, who is here, here, it simply costs quite a lot to support a person, so with the same amount of euros, one could probably help a hundred people. It may not be a hundred people, but let’s say 50, easily 50 people there on the spot.

And since we don’t really have unlimited money, which is probably evident every day from the news that Finland’s public finances are not doing terribly well, the money that is available is very limited. So why take such a well- chosen group here? And with the current system, that selection still happens

In such a way that those who can afford to pay the large amount of human smuggling fees, they get to that border instead, or they are really helped there in case of need . It is said that in that way at least the more humane solution would be to help on the spot,

Because in that way a larger group of people could be helped, and it would also be better directed to those who are really in need. Is this kind of manning the manning of Europe? It’s already mellowed. Well, at least for Russia and Belarus, this very cheap trick is to disturb European societies,

For example Finland. It doesn’t really cost these countries to drive a group of people to that border and then bring them inside. Compared to how much trouble it causes. So, in a way, the investment-return ratio for some in Russia is quite good in terms of how little they have to invest in it,

Compared to how much it causes problems and needs in a European country. But it is up to the European states to decide how long this will be allowed to continue. There sir behind. Here is an excellent back and forth between human dignity and then these international agreements. Of course, there is human dignity,

But then there is also the safety of Finland and now legal scholars are red-faced on TV saying that it is not allowed under any circumstances, because our international agreements tie our hands. We cannot interfere in this matter. But then there is this Finnish security. This is how these contracts were written in a

Time that did not exist today. They do not correspond to the situation we are concretely living in at the moment. But maybe this feels like a jotto fighter just stirring the wind. Common sense says that it makes no sense for us to assert these legal doctrines,

That we don’t live in this world and in this time. What is the real situation? I’m absolutely right. And it’s probably a fairly well-known fact that, for example, the international refugee agreement, it mainly concerned something, or was created in such a time of the world, that it could be applied

To the other thinkers of some Itablog, that there will be individual people. After all, that hospital was built. Yes Yes. Now we are going through completely different world situations. And it has become the most problematic immigration route for Finland and Europe . And as it was brought up here,

It will continue as long as we accept it. For example, more than one refugee agreement can be terminated with just a notice. You don’t necessarily have to resign from it either, when you can take it somewhere safer, according to the Rwanda model . And when the purpose is to create safe

Conditions for people, that safety does not need to be provided in the EU area. As they say , there is no need to guarantee a high standard of living. That is, you can provide that security, if you want, from outside the EU area. And then a really strong bet is

That there will be fewer people seeking asylum, surprisingly much less than there are now. How do you then adjust the quota by force? And will it also rise in which years if this goes? And has there been such continuity in the world? Well, the quota refugees are a bit of a separate group

That is the parliament in Finland that decides each year. Is it about 500 years old in modern times? Probably, but I think Kaisa remembers it better. Yeah, at 500 years old it really is. So a ton or 1050? Yeah, I think it was 1050. It is after the hand of basic Finns

That it has come down. Of course, it is still a bit of an international exception, that there are very few of those countries in the world. Sometimes I remembered that how many take quota refugees in general. In Finland, the number of quota refugees in relation

To the population is still the highest in the world. But that’s really it, it’s directly up to the parliament to decide. And to repeat that it is still quite an exceptional phenomenon in the world, those quota refugees. And the amount taken by Finland is quite high relative to the population.

Of course, the phenomenon of plants, although now in Africa there is drought and many other natural phenomena, and poverty, and the pursuit of a good life, and crossing the Mediterranean Sea in any kind of rush. After all, it can hold ten, let’s leave half the pride in a hundred, and that’s our fault.

What’s to prevent that one morning, one year, quite a lot of people in despair. They swim from Morocco, for example, as I already swim, from every place and so on and so on. Is there any way for us, like then, of course we have the authority to get here.

And then this Sengen area, that you can freely get a girl, where you go, if you get her acquisition, her residence permit, and so on. And these international agreements, everyone knows that they are quite old-fashioned. To such huge hubris and other bullshit, but if anyone gets it right, that’s it.

Well, it requires political will, that so far it has not been found, for example, at the EU level, instead of, for example, the Ruonda model, which I have already mentioned many times , would have been put into use, so the current commission instead wants to share that. Those coming between member countries.

That this kind of EU is coming into effect, as you said, burden sharing. And it can now be concluded with common sense that if those arrivals are distributed among the member countries, it will not stop the number of arrivals. Especially when there really is that free movement that

If they are placed somewhere in Poland or the Czech Republic, they can still go to Germany if they want to. Yeah, back there. Thank you. Of course, during the time of representation, in my opinion, this matter can get a little looser since there are certain parties that support a smooth,

Easy entry into the country. And I see that some people have certain ideas here, that what their purpose is, this additional work and release will come to jesus in the future. Yes. It can be quite good to take Lääne in advance, to get that support when people come here who vote for them.

Yeah, that’s a good point to think about. And let’s think about it in our think tank that the executive director of that think tank, Simmo Groenroos, published a pamphlet last year about why immigration is supported. Or the kind that benefits from immigration. So that was the name, that’s how we thought about it.

Immigration is supported both on the right side and in the middle and on the left of the political field, but perhaps for a slightly different reason. On the right side, maybe more because that way you get cheap labor, which is a bit of a funny name sometimes,

Because it can be that labor for cheap companies, but it is not for society. And maybe the left supports it. And maybe for this kind of naive idealistic reason, but also for the reason you said that many immigrants will probably just then vote for those left-wing parties.

At least in Sweden, this has been observed, that there can also be those with a more cynical motivational background, that we can actually get more of those voters. As far as I remember, in Sweden already in a nearby area, the support of the Democrats. If it was 80 or 90 percent.

That is, in nearby areas where there are a lot of immigrants. As a comment, I just want to say that income transfer and a profitable party need people who need these income transfers. It’s just this. Yeah. Then another comment that we thought about, or Simo thought about why so many ordinary citizens

Or middle-class people could. Or at least not as you say out loud. That this thing doesn’t make any sense. In most cases, there can be such social pressure for the average citizen. Or you don’t want to appear as a bad person or a so-called racist. That quite middle-class people might play

An important role in thinking about what their own reputation is. Or the middle class often wants to imitate the elite. And then such as. You deserve such thoughts. Or ideologies that are currently popular in society. That there might be quite middle-class people about it too. Either consciously or unconsciously. So then we think

That perhaps the majority of people with me are in favor of such open borders. And I don’t dare to say out loud that there is no sense in this matter. Because we can consider it a bad person. Say the best things. I think that Järvi’s use of colliding is not racism. It’s not,

But many people may have such a threshold. Especially if you think that the people around them think differently about it . And consider you a bad person if you bring up such thoughts. Noni, thanks. Thanks for the good comments and questions.