Who would buy a football club in 2024?

Most of us can only dream of owning a football club. However, for the very rich it’s an opportunity towards power, influence and even more money. So who are the people that try to buy football clubs and how do they do it?

Do football’s authorities decide who gets the green light for a takeover? Ayo Akinwolere is joined by The Athletic’s Adam Crafton & Matt Slater to discuss.
New

00:00 Intro
00:14 Who can actually buy English football clubs?
02:27 Thomas Zilliacus & football ownership
07:39 Social media and an owners image
10:32 Dozy Mmobuosi & Sheffield United
16:43 Why is the Premier League attractive to new owners?
21:48 A proposed takeover of Everton (777)
25:03 Bury, Macclesfield & Derby County
30:40 How vulnerable are lower league clubs?
35:39 How long could club ownership last?
37:02 What is in it for club buyers of lower league clubs?
41:50 Outro

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Okay so here for this one we have the Athletics Adam Crafton let’s not forget newly crowned sports writer of the Year Adam Crafton and also Matt don’t don’t think I forgot the silver sports news reporter category as well we ain’t going to forget you as well sir congratulations to you both right let’s

Talk about this series right um men who want to buy English football clubs and it’s been running across the athletic all this week you’ve both contributed to it so Matt let’s start with you on this one um what has this series told us about the characters who want to get

Involved into owning English football clubs in particular well um look I mean there there’s an awful lot of clubs out there there’s lots of buyers good bad and indifferent um people get into it for a whole host of reasons there there is no one type of buyer um and and I’m afraid

To say there’s no one type of Rogue buyer either you know they they are motivated by by different by different things um you know what we learn well look owning a football club is pretty cool isn’t it it’s pretty exciting um you know if you weren’t s

Good enough to play the game you know it’s pretty it’s sort of like the closest thing right it’s competition it’s exciting it makes you famous um so that’s good if that’s what you’re into uh it can you know it gives you a platform if you’ve got something else to

Sell perhaps uh football clubs often come with stadiums and bits of property so maybe you don’t fancy the football club that much but you quite like the property football clubs are cash businesses uh cash businesses light night clubs and taxi ranks and all that sort of stuff are um quite good for um

Laundering laundering cash um that could be attractive to certain type of person uh another type of laundering um kind of connected to the sort of making you famous thing it can perhaps distract attention away from something you don’t want us to talk about um so yeah there’s a variety of

Reasons and I think the the people we’ve focused uh on this week um almost sort of tick most of those boxes not all of them but you know there’s there’s there’s quite a few of the boxes ticks this week so look there’s no one type of owner there’s no one type of moot

There’s no one motivation there’s no one type of Rogue um uh there’s a variety of reasons to we football clubs yeah Adam you spoke to uh Thomas zakus um you know and um I think a there’s a a line in it that really tickled us you know suddenly a nobody in

Football terms at least became a somebody is is there an element of you know these kind of guys wanting to be somebody to be associated with grand clubs like Manchester United or into Milan for instance in this case yeah I mean this guy I mean even

After kind of working on him sort of for the past week or so he’s still a little bit of a mystery um even having spoken to him uh for quite a long time and received some very long email responses as well um he he’s he he he did come

From nowhere in a football sense you know I’m not really sure of anyone who before certainly in English football before March last year was aware of Thomas zaris from a football sense you know if if you’d have said to Matt give us a list of the 20 most likely people

To come in and buy a football club over the next five years he would not have been on it right he wouldn’t have been on the 200 list to be honest and all of a sudden he issues this press release to say I’ve put in a bit to buy Manchester

United my company can put in half the money um or my my partners can put in half the money then the fans will come up with the rest of the money and in some ways what he was saying when you actually look at that press release

Would have appealed you know to a lot of football fans in the sense of when he then went on to explain it he said actually no we will we will buy the club and then we’ll give supporters the chance to buy some shares and have a say

In the Strategic direction of the club a lot of the things that for a long time you know he saying things like no more shakes no more oligarchs give power back to the fans pretty good Communications um but there was kind of red flags around it from the start I

Mean he put his mobile phone number on the press release right this is not something that normally happen we we we are We complain about the lack of access we get in sports journalism to owners and principles and all this kind of thing but does someone with with access to

Billions put their mobile phone and put and email address on a press release not sure so he did that but he got a lot of publicity out of it BBC interviewed him uh some leading fansies interviewed him they weren’t do anything wrong they were talking someone who had said they were

Bid for Manchester United yet within 3 weeks he was out of the race right and you know I think from the conversations that cly some of the conversations Matt’s had and and I’ve had as well you know I don’t think that bid was taken particularly seriously he says that was

Because he came in very late in the day then you question well why did you come in so late in the day and make such a public show of it when it was never really likely but even now you know he continues to kind of flirt with the idea

Of buying into Milan says he put an offering in July and November the major problem he has is that um and it’s a pretty big problem he’s a wanted man in Singapore he’s got an Interpol red notice against him and he was accused of frauding a civil lawsuit in the in New

York in the United States which he settled he says that was to reduce legal costs um you know I spoke to the to the the lawyer who uh was representing the the two brothers that were that were SU doing um and they have a very different

Take on that which is you know that they say you know that what’s going on now in Singapore justifies the action that was being taken at the time for you know an alleging fraud so very very kind of fascinating situation but I I still couldn’t really tell you now because I

Suppose it is still a live thing right he he could be you know his argument is you’ve stumbled across Singapore New York these two unfortunate things that have happened in my very resp respectable 40 years in business and you’re making your whole thing about it and K and killing me

But they’re pretty big things if you want to own a football club right and the upside I suppose of of owning a football club could be associating yourself with these Major Brands giving businesses that you’re trying to raise capital from the perception that you’re very successful and credible um the downside

Is that that Association particularly with Manchester United everything becomes a story with Manchester United so if you have got something murky going on in Singapore or in New York five years ago then that is going to come out at some stage and I think that’s what’s

That’s what we’ve seen the kind of risk and reward over the past week when you look at some of these stories Matt will talk about dozy you know it kind of all came tumbling down and you wonder the extent of which making himself so public around

Being trying to be involved in a Premier League Football Club probably accelerated that demand hold on I’m going to come to you and talk about doy in just a second and before we move any further we must also say that Thomas zilis has strongly denied any accusations against him very quickly

Adam in terms of social media I don’t know I look at these men and I I I wonder if they remind me of those guys you see on social media who are stood in front of her a Ferrari saying they will make us rich in in in quick steps you

Know how big does social media play a part in what these guys are trying to do when it comes to football clubs I think it depends on the guy right like so you know we worked on a story last year about this guy uh Henry Maurice who it

Sounds ridiculous now but he was rivaling the Saudi public investment fund to try and buy Newcastle United he got in the room with advisers to Mike Ash you know fanel was the the London offices of Mike Ashley he convinced um journalists that he was he was really

Credible turns out he’s in prison right um by the you know by the time we were doing a story on him Broad and but he was never someone that was all over social media right so not everyone uses it that way I think zel arus has used

Social media in quite an interesting way he’s he’s CLI he’s used some kind of paid for news wires to put out a certain perception of himself um and on social media you know he started I think he realized that with a fan base like Manchester United you know

If you use two or three buds words you know the main one being the glazers are bad um and let’s get in a Twitter space and talk about how bad this sales process is and here’s the things that we could do to change the club oh by the

Way you know shake Jim and S Jim Ratliff I’ll go into business with both of them you know if they need a partner I’m here right you know if they need a front man I’m around you know I’m not ring at them I’m I’m here you know we can do this

Together so I think I think some of them do use it that way um but also a lot of them don’t use social media at all actually and almost hide from social media because they know that actually with a little bit of scrutiny because there’s some pretty good uh kind of startup amateur

Journalists on on so on Twitter now from you know every Club has every football fan listening to this will know that one that one supporter um from their Club who you can trust on the kind of the football business right Everton fans have thees right there’s other ones that are that

That I think every every supporter will know or this fan knows what he’s talking about and if he’s digging into this guy then there’s going to be an issue here so you know I I think the social media side can be a risk as well as risk as well as reward for

Them Matt come on roll your sleeves up let’s talk about doy MOSI the Nigerian businessman who wanted to buy Sheffield United and I was fascinated by this because if he did go through with that deal he’ have been the what the first ever black owner in the in English

Football really so history potentially being made but uh not all is what it seemed no I should probably just you know just correct something in the story there that the whole would doy have being the first black owner of an English football team I think it was

Really more that was very much what he was sort of trying to bring to the table and very particularly Africa black Africa Nigeria this was very much sort of part of his pitch that it would sort of signal this one you know a good news story for the UK how open and tolerant

We are but also just the you know the rise of Africa you know Nigeria being a significant player on the global stage blah blah blah you know kind of changing the narrative around Nigerian businessmen however he wouldn’t have been the first black owner of English Ben Robinson owns burden he owns 98% of

Burden so you know respect to Ben um he does a fantastic job there um right dozy of all the things I said in my first answer is probably the most complicated scam and I really feel like I’ve only told a sort of fraction of the story you know we are a football outlet

And I focus on doy and his attempt to buy Sheard United but it’s a big scam and I think you know some I know there are some people already writing about it um you know the most notable being Hindenberg research who really took him down now they are short sellers they

Take bets on companies that they don’t rate they they they look for frauds and they bet against the share price and they absolutely took doy and his company Tingo down others were already on it a guy called Tom winff who writes you know he’s the same sort of sort of thing he

Writes uh for a c called share profit so he was an early um he he got on to dozy quickly um now um he’s simple though for our purposes in that I think he is a well he hasn’t been he hasn’t been convicted yet but the doj success rate is remarkable

And the uh SEC have jumped on with a civil suit and there’s a 72 page indictment there there’s a nine-page indictment from the doj um I’ve spoken to at least a dozen people that um that um were sort of unfortunate enough to work for doy they’re all owed money it

Is a it’s at least a four five year scam the American part of it but he’s been a grifter all his life and um you know I’m pretty confident in saying that um what he was trying to do I think was a pump and dump share scam and he was

Using football and I’ve got to be honest here um football journalists who can be a little bit sort of we know we’re all rushed we’re all we’re all trying to sort of you know get stories out there there and sometimes we don’t have time to do background checks if it’s a news

Story and there is a bit of a habit of somewhat of just saying well there’s a billionaire that wants to buy his football club boom that’s the story isn’t it oh he’s a Nigerian billionaire oh he’s Tech billionaire oh he’s got he’s got a company over that’s on NASDAQ

That’s worth seven billion and he’s his personal Fortune is worth Suddenly It’s like becomes a bit of an arms race to sort of big up your story because that’s what people want to hear right oh my football club that’s in trouble is going to be bought by a billionaire not just a

Billionaire this guy’s got five billion oh right so so there was a bit of that and that that every time someone wrote that that’s a positive story about him it’s a it’s a free advert for his company that he has just done a reverse merger with another Rubbish Company and

They’re on ndaq so he’s going to be selling shares right so he’s in he’s in sales mode so the number of times he gets people to say he’s a billionaire is just a win and it was a remarkable number it started before the connection with shefford United to be fair so he

Managed to get himself photographed in GQ Africa he had this Foundation he threw a ball at Dorchester he got namami Campbell there he got famous Nigerian politicians there he got Aon there you know he is a Charming he’s a comat right and he he convinced a lot of people he

Started bidding for things chasing things Sheffield United was just part of it in some ways to go go to to Adam’s answer before I I think it might have been a tactical mistake though I think the the grift which was flogging which was talking up Tingo this magic African conglomerate that does

Everything from mobile phones to food to health care and was going to expand all over Africa and get into Asia that was the grift right and he had he had co-conspirators in that um and the football bit did actually attract attention so he got that burst of

Publicity you know CNN the BBC did him Ria Ferdinand did him loads of people did the times lots of people told his story but it did Shine a big light on him and it got people like me and not just me quite a few people going well

Hold on a minute I’ve never heard of Tingo I’m I’m going to run it by my Nigerian mate have you heard of a company called Tingo that apparently has got 9 million customers uh no never heard of them right apparently he’s opening a hospital and he’s got a

Foundation and a business school no I’ve genuinely never heard of the bloke is running around telling people he’s a Nigerian billionaire there are for C A Forbes which you know isn’t isn’t isn’t perfect but it’s quite good at billionaires there are four Nigerian billionaires and he wasn’t one of them

It wasn’t that hard to start going dozy I’m I’m just not sure about these claims and and then you start looking at Tingo and every single number it had was an estimate or a forecast you think none of these numbers have been audited these are huge red flags how many red flags so

Look that’s that’s that’s him and I think his story in terms of what we’re trying to do this week is relatively straightforward he used football as a vehicle for his other scan Matt I want to ask you why do you think because if you know if you look at us

Sports this doesn’t happen in US sports right in the way that it does with English football um why do you think English football is uniquely both vulnerable and attractive to some of these characters well I’m actually trying to write a story about this right now so the first thing to say yeah I

First the first thing to say is you’re right English football does appear football in general but but we’ll we’ll stick to English because we got a lot of clubs and a lot of high profile and and there’s a lot of money sosing around so um it does appear that it’s uniquely but

Particularly especially if you like vulnerable I I I would just say there have there has been there’s a very famous case in the US new irelanders and a guy called Spano I think it was a 30 for 30 you know a massive fraud and he

Actually got away with it for a bit he was rumbled eventually but it it does and can it can happen not not as often of course and and there’s famous Other scamps M Sports Alan Stanford Springs to mine and cricket and funnily enough while I was just sort of researching my

List of wrongin there’s quite a bit of crossover with F1 so one of our guys in our series William story of course was connected with h um and um oh the the KN County guy Russell King was one of the earlier scams I ever reported on when I

Was at the BBC he also I think put a bit in for saber and there’s a couple others I mean f briori QPR and Benetton team so that’s interesting so so there’s another sport there European their teams you generally buy a team there’s a lot of

Cash what what what are you know both have in common I think it’s just cash businesses the profile is high the checks and balances done by whoever’s in charge who is in charge like who is so who’s in charge of F1 well they’re just a collection of F1 owners right so there

Isn’t really a body there that’s vetting everybody what is football well the leagues are just the shareholders of the clubs they don’t want to create this High bar for people to come in because they have at one point they at some point they got have to sell the clubs

Themselves so they don’t want to frighten people off so that’s something that often comes up when I speak to owners or I speak to the leaders and say why why is why does this keep happening you know why do you make it much harder to people for people to buy clubs and

They go oh my God you can’t do that one would be discriminating against good buyers okay maybe um but two you know we we speak to the owners and they’re like well where’s my exit if I if I if we start insisting on bonds and people putting huge amounts of money in escro

Accounts or you know having six-month vetting processes how do I sell my club how do I get off the hook so that’s that’s I think a common theme through this and I think the other thing is perhaps just a sort of bigger picture thing well the other thing I supposed to

Add is that there’s there’s broadly speaking English football and I remember I interviewed Richard scoore about this a few years ago where he sort of said to me I think it was the whole piece is around the owners and director test which they used to call the fit and

Proper person test and he didn’t like that he didn’t like the fit and proper person name but he said it sounds like a cut of your jib test it sounds like sort of you’re trying to join a country club and he wanted what we have here in the UK to be

Based in law more objective more black and white and he drew the distinction with us sport where it is a cutof your jib test so the NFL try and buy an NFL Club is really hard the other NFL owners vet you like you are trying to join a

Gang trying to join a country club and you could be blackballed now he says we don’t want to do that we want to have a test that is based in law British law and broadly speaking if you can own a British company you can probably own a British football team as

Well and I think that’s that that if you like is sort of admirable from a kind of legal and Commercial point of view in that it is based in law you can’t just have so I don’t like the look of you well let’s have something a bit more

Black and white pleas bit more objective but it does it is almost by design a low bar now what they’ve done in maybe we’ll get into this and this is I think one of the key takeaways from our series most of these guys didn’t actually succeed you know they the ones

We’ve written about actually failed and you know I’ve got a list of 15 20 others who who ultimately were rumbled they they either got caught or they had the club for a while and then they lost it not many people kind of got away with it now that means that football must be

Doing something right and in particularly on on kersner on doy uh on William’s story they did a pretty good job they didn’t take these guys seriously they vetted them they held it up they demanded proof of funds they demanded source and sufficiency of funding and this is where football I

Think is doing a better job it is sort of saying well look we’ve got our black and white test you either fail that or you don’t show me the money to prove to me that you can be a good owner that’s where people are falling up now falling

Falling down now yeah I was just thinking actually this brings us quite well into sort of the ongoing proposed takeover of everon you know Triple 7 Partners Matt um is it this scrutiny that’s delaying that from happening at this moment in time but broadly speaking yes right there

Isn’t really a black and white uh owners and directors issue with 777 do you remember right at the beginning people talked about the fact that Josh wander who’s the he’s basically the majority owner at Triple 7 um had a had sort of a Conan um conviction from his student

Days that that was a spent conviction and really wouldn’t be a problem that was a bit of a red herring for Triple 7 it is all about show me the money what’s your business plan can you fund and run this complicated Club this big complicated club with issues for two

Three years yes or no can you do it I mean the fact it’s not happened yet I think is revealing um my expectation throughout this whole thing is that is that it wouldn’t happen because it’s not happened yet um in the sense of you know this this club is this

Club really needs to be taken over fast right and the Premier League know that and the closer you get towards the end of the season where Everton may have another points deduction you know coming up um as well that’s not being delivered yet has it no not going mad no not Cas

Not on case two you know Everton could be relegated in a matter of what two months and if Everton are relegated and you’ve got that Stadium B burden over them and owner maseri obviously has this this loan uh to MSP as well that could POS that could potentially default you

Know there’s a there’s a lot of issues coming down the train tracks both for Everton and the Premier League and I understand why some Everton fans will just be thinking just just get on with it and we’ll deal with whatever’s coming right once they’re in the building but

Actually if if the Premier League were to do that and then it was all to go wrong we’d kill them right would kill them for not doing the right due diligence for not doing the right checks for not doing the right process you know this is a famous football club it’s a

Historic football club it’s a Founder member of the Premier League you know and as a result of that I think the Premier League are increasingly getting these things right when it comes to the scrutiny they’re applying on takeovers and yes at the same time you’ll always

Have people with some Merit who will say things like okay but you know you gave the Newcastle will take over through in the end and you you’ve not dealt with Man City and you’ve not done this you’ve not done this and you know look at what happened with Chelsea and all of that

Kind of thing and I suppose that all makes the argument for getting it right now even stronger really because you don’t want another one of those sorts of coming down the line where you’re saying yeah we just we just got on with it and and found a way through it um

So my instinct is still if it’s taken the long I wonder why it’s not happened right it’s a bit like with a V decision right if they’re taking that long over it there’s probably something not right about it on the other hand you’d also think about stuff that’s happened with

Barry mfield you know Derby County and you you you have a a chairman who’s basically had enough and going right I’m done I mean what can protect clubs from that as well you know they wash their hands over it right well we’ve got into liquidation sorry next yeah it it’s really really really

Hard um and you know there’s quite a list there I mean you know Barry is is is a good example of what I think Adam’s getting at with Triple 7 I’m not suggesting triple 7even are going to fall apart I’m just saying this is a potential thought um bar were already in

Trouble um the previous own I think was called Stuart day they’d been running too hot they’d gone up he lost control of the finance he’s lost control of his own personal business and a guy called Steve Dale came along now Steve Dale should never have been

Allowed to buy that club but at that time there was a the the football’s light touch approach to vetting owners was particularly light and there was a classic case of you know frying pan fire there one year after Steve Dale’s ownership of Barry they were out The League effectively bankrupt he’s

Actually now declar bankruptcy and you know we know what happened to Barry they sort of basically disappeared and there thank thank God Phenix team started but what but what why did we go through that you know why was why was Dale allowed to do that what was his plan what was it

Really about you people talk about it now and you know what was he what was he what was he trying to do there was it a property scan was it about the car park who knows it was is all of bit small time and I can give you another 10 15

Clubs where the same thing’s happened where they’ve been caught almost in a vicious cycle of bad owners the club is permanently a distressed asset right so good owners steer clear and you only you get kind of wrongin or people who have just who are just reaching they just

Can’t afford it and what does football do about that does it say no no no no no well okay if if you keep doing that the club goes bust they’re just companies at the end of the day I know fans don’t want to hear that but that’s how they’re set up

That’s how they’re structured and companies fail all the time you know think about your favorite nightclubs when you were young they’ve all gone they don’t last um restaurants change all this time footsy 100 you go back 25 years 50 years 75 years we see how much it’s changed this is the nature of

Business football clubs are weird in that they have they’re incredibly sticky they they nearly always find a way they very rarely go bust but when they do it’s horrible local suppliers fans generations of people Traditions the impact on the community I it’s massive that’s what kind of keeps them alive as

Well so trying to police all of that is difficult you know and I and I you know I’ve been writing about this stuff for a long time and I and I my sympathy levels have have risen for administrators and for people and for the middlemen for the banks have to

Check this stuff I mean one thing one thing that people often sort of um get upset about is well I’ve try proof of funds it’s been explained to me very clearly now that showing proof of funds is actually not that hard you know there’s proof of funds and there’s there’s about 18 different

Varieties of proof of funds it can be a screenshot you can get people to loan you money for fractions of a second you can pay for that privilege oh look I had 10 billion in my in my account for um for three seconds and here’s the screenshot you know you can get people

Get fold all the time we talked about Chris Kirchner who’s the guy that very nearly bought Derby and you know kicked the tires at at um Preston as well the basis of his wealth was a startup company right the athletic was a startup company once it went through

Rounds of venture capital funding it had an interesting idea particularly you know in the time it was a logistics company um and it was you know it got people like Goldman Sachs gave it money they like the idea that’s the nature of startups right you know you get people

To invest in you because you’ve got a good story to tell so he had money had an idea people had serious credible people had given his company money now he then misappropriated and used that and misused that money and he he’s heading to prison but for a while he was

Legitimate and with that money he hired really good lawyers he had a really he had one of the best football takeover lawyers working for him you know when he rocks up to the the efl and they see him sat next to a really good lawyer and

They look at his company and they can sort of see some auditor they got he had a good auditor you know they can see the fact golden Sachs have have given them money oh well he’s got employees start they’ve got revenue they as far as they

Were concerned it was like Chris you can have the club just can you send the money you know show actually actually do the deal we’ve said you can do you know the deal is done as far as we’re concerned and this happens quite a lot

It’s sort of like yeah you pass our test we can see you’re not a convicted frauder you haven’t got two bankruptcies you’re not you haven’t you know you’re not in trouble with another governing body There’s No gambling convictions all right fine all the black and white stuff

You’re okay yeah yeah yeah yeah we like your lawyer we like your plan can you send the money now please and that’s and that’s where a lot of these deals F down but it is hard if you rock up with a good lawyer and you’ve got some you know a decent

Bank behind you but people F like this all the time it’s not just football trust me you there there are scams there are scams turn on Netflix there are quite a few scammers out there no but this this this is a thing you know um there are scams that people play on

Older vulnerable people and I sort of see Adam these sort of lowely clubs is that sort of vulnerable state you you’ve lost everything your club’s pretty much gone into liquidation of some sort you’re desperate for someone to rescue them and in comes these guys who are

Just like well yeah we’ve got we’ve got the lawyers we’ve got the funds what do you say they are your nan receiving you know a cold phone call saying you know I can get you a free holiday right and and there is an element of that to it um I

Think it must be so you know we so often criticize the Premier League and the efl I mean I wonder now how mean how big those departments or how big those costs must be when they when you’re talking about this level of due diligence because when they do get it wrong the

Cost is so big reputationally and emotionally and you know and sometimes even when they get even when an owner is right from a legal perspective it can still all go wrong right it can go wrong once you’re in the building even if you are a legitimate owner as well that’s the

Other part of this right you can be a legitimate owner and become hated and unpopular and seen as destroying football from within and all this sort of stuff so even when the efl do their jobs right some people will still say how have they let them in right how they

Let them into the building um so that is another one of those challenges and you wonder as well you know who who now do like the efl and the Premier League commission you know when they do these background checks and this auditing I mean that there must be quite a lot to

Be made in the kind of subtle private investigation space so maybe that’s that that might be your um might be your next move yeah well Adam you make a great point I mean we talk about fit and proper directors whatever they want to call it how do you check for competence

So Mel Morris was about the most perfect owner walking into Derby County local Boy made good ludicrously Rich uh respected in business and really went for it for a few years until he ran out of money till he until you know until he could no longer keep paying those bills

And this goes there’s there’s a whole list of genuine white Knights the the you know the the funer you know the owner funding you know and it’s great when it works and these are these are you know these are often there’s often a s of strong family connection and it’s

Brilliant and then they die their business goes bang they get bored they get fed up with you know the the unfairness of it all and that funding is taken away and then you’re left with a club that is just unsustainable a company that’s unsustainable so you know this is a

Challenge for football you know you talk about the vulnerability why does this keep happening to football I think it’s probably you know a really sort of fundamental question about the industry that it keeps happening to football because we’re talking about much loved high-profile highly scrw ized businesses where people get a bit

Carried away they get you know they get the sugar rush they get the but they’re not they’re not profitable they’re barely sustainable most of them are insolvent so and and and Matt we expect them to be here forever right so exactly whereas you can’t just close them right like most Industries businesses

Businesses rise businesses fall it’s very sad when that happens but you don’t have that you know War wolfs right if you’re listening in the in the UK right imagine 2 years ago a world without warws an institution a British institution gone right but but people aren’t well maybe maybe got some people

Who are still mourning Wars but most people now just go and get their stuff from other places you can’t you can’t do that with a football club and so take take a club like Wigan they had what many people thought was a kind of a a perfect ownership local guy Dave wheen

Cared about his town cared about his Club invested in in in in Wigan Athletic was into these rugby as well and but his problem was what was going to happen when he got as he got older and it was in the end you know kind of his grandson

Got involved and he he just couldn’t they couldn’t sustain the cost of it and they didn’t want to sustain the cost of it there came a point where the family wanted to to move on from it and unfortunately they made a really really you could say bad choice in the

Sale that they made but equally it was approved at the time it looked right at the time everything that there was a business plan that looked good and it nearly drove them out of business in the end so I think the longevity of of clubs as well is another

Problem the fact that these clubs have to exist forever and won’t remain under the same ownership forever so even if your Club current you know what happened to Brighton for example when one day Tony Bloom decides he’s had enough brenford you know we’ve seen heard recently might be on the market these

Clubs that we say are so perfectly run you know they are now sort of major you pretty major clubs in in the sense of English football so you’d expect they would get some form of of decent biders coming in but there’s no guarantee of as matter says of the competence and you

Know we’re seen that with you CH when you looked at that Todd B bid when he came in you know own sports teams in the states backed by Clear Lake Capital you yeah of course see some people would have looked and thought not sure if they

Know that much about about soccer but I think most people looked and thought it’s probably as good as you’re going to get in that situation right where you are basically up for auction and now you’ve got they’re kind of being caricatured on cartoons as the as absolute amateurs and

That just shows every level of the game there so we’re talking you know from Chelsea to Barry that you’re talking about different questions first of all the legality then the approval but then the bit that nobody can really ever test for is competence mat so what what is in it for

Then if you are legitimately wanting to buy a lower league team is it is it the cudos of taking them up to the Premier League I want something for the fans can we keep some dreams alive please yeah no sure ab ab again we’ve we’ve done pods on this haven’t we so um

Look we’ve we’ve spent a lot of time talking about you know all the bad stuff and and you know and let’s be honest bad news tends to do quite well and we really could do two or three weeks of this stuff three four five weeks of this

Stuff I was you know I’ve been I was I was reminded of stories I’d forgotten about you know I not County Monto Russell King Cy and athletic and what’s his name Mazar maid and the whole Pakistani uh cricket Scandal that was all connected to that really sad story

You know someone involved in that club committed suicide over it you know took their own life over it because they were so they were so horrified about what happened to their club and I think there was a simil situation Oxford uh Oxford United or was it Oxford city as well I

Can’t remember one of those clubs you know really sad stories you know bit terrible impacts so um you know that’s all the bad stuff why are people attracted to football well because everything I said at the beginning you know it’s it’s exciting people come to it because they you know they’re

Competitive they’ve been comp they’ve been successful in one sphere of their life they want to they want to um be competitive somewhere else they’ve reached a sort of point in their life when they have a bit of fun um they want to some some want to give something back

You know that they are genuinely you know proud of their area they used to support this club it’s sort of you know again that whole kind of um you know the benefactor um philanthropy you know some of them are trying to sort of Polish their reputation for whatever reason there’s

Lots of reasons to do it and at the at the bottom end we are seeing this enormous boost and interest in the bottom end and I think there’s a few reasons one our pyramid’s really deep that’s that’s very much our USP you know we have lots of clubs with great fan

Bases great stories to tell they are into they have amazing longevity these clubs they don’t you know they they are built to last but believe it or not they’re resilient I think things like we got to be honest Ted lasso uh rexam son until I die this

This real interest in the story The Narrative what do we have that if you like North American football North American sport doesn’t have what we have Jeopardy promotion relegation Snakes and Ladders it’s you know it’s there’s interesting excitement at both ends it’s very different to the way North American

Sport is structured so that’s interesting there’s an awful I mean again we get into sort of kind of economic structural stuff you know there’s a lot of money swashing around out there we had low interest rates for a while private Equity where does that money go there’s interesting returns in

Sports sports become an asset class I mean that’s that’s another whole podcast you know people are making serious monies in sport in North America then you’ve got the whole interest of course from the other side of the world what’s the you know the gulf interest and prior

To that China so there’s always going to be an amount of money out there that is going to be interested in sport entertainment that kind of cross-section whatever that is and and and people care about Sport and when people care about something and are willing to pay for

Something there’s always going to be a business case for it and I think the the interest at the at the bottom end is to me is is fascinating because I think people really quite like the promotion relegation the pyramid story they they love the idea the clubs are cheaper down

There they’re available there’s lots of them and you can go on a journey if you get it right so you know here’s a good news story from the other day I hope it it seems good news to me and I hope it continues to be good news ipswitch town

Right so ipwi town were one of these sort of you know kind of stalled clubs sleeping Giants whatever you want to however you want to describe them a a a US pension fund bought them now every time at the time people were like hold on a minute what why is the Arizona sort

Of you know public fireman’s and policemen’s pension fund buying IPS town when they in League one and paying quite a good price for it you know quite a big price for it well they get promoted they’re well run there’s a good there’s there’s there’s a good vibe about them

They might go up this season to the Premier League wow they’ve just sold 40% of the club the values them at 260 million that’s a remarkable figure to pay for ipsu Town and Anar an incredible you know uplift already in this this Pension funds bet and by the way they’ve

Sold at that 40 sent to a private another American private Equity Firm who are who are clearly looking at and going yeah I like that bet so look you know there there are good news stories out there you know as Rochdale thankfully I think are going to

End up you know with a good local owner they’ve been through the mill and theyve they’ve they’ve they they’ve those ties have been kicked by quite a few Rogues and Rascals as well so there are good stories out there all right let’s end it there jent I really appreciate your time Matt Adam

And also don’t forget to check out the series men who want to buy English football clubs on the athletic right now don’t forget to R and review us and Michael and the team will be back tomorrow for the weekend preview thanks for listening