Part of a series of seven webinars from Health Innovation Oxford and Thames Valley which make up a toolkit for developing innovations for the NHS and social care
We’ve got a bunch of people here um we’ll kick off and we’ll start so so from me I’m Matthew Lawrence from Health Innovation Oxford andms Valley um today’s webinar is on the innovator toolkit series about understanding NHS procurement and I am joined by my colleague from Health Innovation
Manchester Nick Allen do you want to do a quick hello Nick to everybody yeah okay hi I’m the industry procurement advisor great health Innovation Manchester my background is procurement obviously head of procurement at various hospitals Pro the most southernly being Basin Stoke back in the day and more
Predominantly in the Northwest over the over the last few years so thanks very much Nick um yeah so so Nick Nick is much more of an expert than I so what I’m going to Endeavor to do today uh as we get into it is is really give a
Really broad brushstroke idea of what is procurement in the NHS and public sector for those who don’t know if you’re an expert you might find that’s a little bit repetitive if you’re not an expert you might find it a bit challenging so there’s something in between for
Everybody um but I’ll go through a few slides here um some of the slides I may skip through quickly there’s a lot of content but what we’re doing is we’re recording the session so you’ll get a video link of it afterwards and we’re going to send out um a PDF pack so you
Can see everything you don’t have to write everything down there are links in there and all the content as well um so this is just saying all the different webinars we’ve done a few of them this is the fourth one there’s three more coming up in in March and April just to
Be aware you can sign up with those links there’ll be in the in the email we’ll sent out later as well um um Health Innovation Ox temps Valley um used to be called Oxford ahsn um Health Innovation Manchester used to be called was Manchester ahsn I think was Nick um
So yeah so so we’re presenting that today um session is being recorded um so don’t let you hold it back too much it just means we can we can share with people who couldn’t make it today who are signed up um I’ll explain a little bit about it so Health Innovation
Networks have been around for 10 years um and we’re commissioned predominantly by NHS England and office live sciences and we’re doing all the great stuff up there that you can see really helping Innovations get into the NHS um for us down Health Innovation Oxford and T Valley we serve kind of buckmire
Barkshire Oxford friendly Milton ke and focus on certain clinical areas um I know Nick up in Manchester you’ll have similar kind of focus around three four million people you’re probably serving in the greater Manchester area um I don’t have anything hugely difference in that um probably similar um but with
More Focus obviously to the Northwest um um so we’re part of a national network so so from us and Manchester we represent two of the 15 Health Innovation networks that cover all of England um and we’ve been recently relicensed until 2028 um and there’s a whole bunch of
Innovation and stuff great stuff we’ve done with the NHS in Industry over the last 10 years so that’s kind of the background introduction if you don’t know who we are um it’s great to see some people we’ve worked with in the past on this this call so great thanks
Very much for joining today um um so without much further Ado I’m going to talk about understanding NHS procurement um and I’m going to kick off first of all with a disclaimer slightly so although it’s TI procurement I’m mainly going to talk about how and why the NHS
Buys and doesn’t buy in goods and services with an overview of the formal procurement process I know Nick’s got some slides as well so I’m going to try and get through some my mind quickly to give Nick a bit of time just to talk about some of the more strategic aspects
To procurement which he’s much more aware of than I am um so the agenda for today um so what is procurement and what are the legal requirements for NHS and public sector bodies that should be kind of a given if if you’re working with a public sector body like the NHS they
Have to follow the rules as much as you’d like not to potentially um that’s part of it we’ll talk about a bit about procurement Frameworks in the NHS of which Nick’s going to know much better than I some of them um a little bit about value based procurement um top
Tips for getting procurement right um for you kind of working with procurement teams um the difference between commissioning Contracting and procurement and then some additional kind of links and other stuff as well that’s kind of the broad categories of that um so first of all this is a
Definition I’ve got for procurement um people may differ but essentially process of acquiring Goods works or services from usually external providers and managing those through to the end of contract um sounds pretty straightforward until you think about the volume that the NHS um is is going
Through um so the NHS spends about 30 billion pounds a year on third party goods and services with over 880,000 suppliers and of that 30 billion about 25 billion of that is spent spent via Frameworks which will get into explain what a framework is in the very near
Future um so the legal bit so I I referen this slightly so all public bodies in the UK have to be follow strict rules set out in the public contracts regulations 2015 I want go through every bit of it but essentially it means spending taxpayer money correctly being able to justify that um
And here you’ll see um there’s a little bit of information around this is from o University Hospitals essentially who can do that and what the what the the kind of levels of of payment and kind of they have to consider there um so as we’ve left the EU we’re no longer under ogu
Which is the office of Journal official Journal of the European Union European rules but now on the World Trade Organization rules on the agreement of government procedure or GPA so it means the thresholds have come down slightly so just to be aware of that um so something to realize that things will
Have to be tendered more often so it’s 138,000 including vat comes in there that’s a bit about inclusive vat so if you didn’t think it’s going to be tendered but might things more things might be tendered so just be aware of that um the other thing to be aware of
Is something called whole life costing so essentially it’s not just buying the thing itself but it’s also what the costs are for for the whole lifetime expected it’s got a three-year lifetime it might be maintenance it might be licenses it might be any consum that go
Along with it you buy a big machine but you need to fill it with something those will all be included when they’re considered as part of these these terms of what the threshold limits are so if you’re small you might not hit these if you’re really big you might hit these
Quite quickly just to be aware of that um this is a simple guide that the Oxford University Hospitals produced mainly um from managers and people working in the hospitals you understand that the thing to note really is that there’s lots of different things that come from different places um and it’s
Complicated and it varies by each NHS organization how they do things internally so if it’s just replenishing some stock on the ward that’s one thing if however it’s kind of bigger ticket items you know brand new stuff that no one’s ever heard of you have to go through a much more complicated process
Which you’d expect slightly okay so about NHS Frameworks so how do you choose an NHS framework in a way depends what you’ve produced it’s going to kind of go into that thing so if you’re digital it’s one way if it’s going to be something that’s very low
Cost high volume type thing it might be a different framework um there’s some recent news that’s come out um around NHS England just made everyone aware of that they intend to introduce a requirement for all NHS buyers to buy relevant products services and works via a nationally accredited framework from
The 1 of April so that’s only a few weeks away um there’ll be a transition period for a year but the idea is that they’ll expect everyone NHS buyer that includes a Hospital trust integrated care system a primary care system anything like that um to buy it through
That framework host for Relevant goods and services if they are available if they’re not available they have to go through an exception routine but that could be quite significant in that they’re trying to get everyone to go through a framework and kind of normal route rather than doing their own thing
You can see well that’s beneficial it might take a bit of effort and time though I’ve only just read that today so I don’t have much more information on that but something to be aware of um some of the procurement Frameworks that are already in the NHS there’s a health
System of framework gcloud Dynamic purchasing system um and there four NHS procurement hubs I know Nick knows a few of these really well it’s a London procurement partnership um north of England Central procurement collaborative east of England collaborative procurement Hub and NHS commercial Solutions um there are other
Kind of NHS kind of framework hosts as well to be aware of but there quite a lot of them so we can’t get into every one of those um so generally public sector commercial Agreements are in generally two types framework agreements and something called Dynamic purchasing systems so Crown Commercial Services and
NHS supplies you just a couple of the the organizations that use those um this is from that recently agreed thing around the new framework host there 20 of them just bring that for information won’t go through all of that right now if that’s okay um so what’s a framework
Agreement so a framework will typically have in it a description of of what the requirements are for the public sector body so for the NHS it’ll say we need such and such device or whatever it is suppliers who are valued is as being able to provide that so the people who
Already kind of met those those terms um standardized contract terms so when someone uses the framework they can use those automatically without having to come up with new contracts to divide into Lots which kind of categorize things different ways um and the suppliers bid or Tender to get placed on
That framework um competitively each framework is slightly different but generally suppliers have to demonstrate they can do the goods and services to an agreed standard so they can’t be too variable so that the buyers know they’re getting good quality and suppliers also need to make sure they meet buo
Assurance processes and social value and carbon Net Zero targets which know Nick’s going to talk about a bit later um and once suppliers have place got place on the framework agreement they can tender for work from any public service that uses that framework so if
They say we want to take things off this framework they can then go for that business so it’s kind of a pre-authorization way as well to get your your stuff going um there a quick reference to the net NHS Net Zero procurement timeline you can see here so
They’ve changed a bit but the 10% Net Zero waiting and social value waiting um this is from a guide we’ve produced um with ker in Sussex AHS um Health Innovation Network ker Sussex just talk about some of the requirements in there I know Nick’s going to talk about them a
Bit later we will share all these slides so you have the information to hand in a bit okay um so how does it work so if you’re tending to go on a framework how it works this is generic for any kind of framework in the main um so you need to
Express an interest in the procurement so you express interest um there usually aren’t joining fees you just play pay a small commission or Levy when things are actually sold through it typically it might change slightly it’s not a huge amount and the framework owner the person who the the framework kind of Hub
Or the kind of coordinator they’ve got to follow a formal process to make sure procurement regulations are met when they do that um and then when they agree a new um new need or when something’s expiring they will advertise it for a few months let people know about it has
To be publicly listed um The Bigs on find a tender service there’s a link coming up um you can tender to become a supplier on the DPSS or the framework agreements via that I’ll talk about the dynamic purchasing systems in a second um and once the framework’s been awarded
Additional suppliers cannot be added usually it’s closed so might be two years three years there’ll be a period so those suppliers are locked in in that framework um which is different than the dynamic one which we’ll talk about in a second um so you need wait until the
Next relevant tender comes along um and they usually are advertised several months in advance to let people people warning to get their documentation ready to think if they want to get onto that framework um and tenders you can you can find them based on contract size typically in the UK high value tenders
You can use the finder tender service for anything above £1 138,000 for lower value tenders you can go go on the contracts finder service links there for contracts over £12,000 or £30,000 um and there’s a low value purchase system as well which is for kind of low cost low value uncomplicated
Goods and services things High you know like paper or gloves things like that that don’t cost a lot but you want a lot of them um and then if there’s no relevant tender if nothing exists around that tender opportunity available you might be able to subcontract services to
Get into um an existing framework or some someone’s got a holding thing there already um so a dynamic purchasing system or DPS that’s slightly different to a framework similar but different the main bit is it’s like a framework but it’s more Dynamic and it can change so
They can add people any time through the agreement’s life so if it’s a three or fivey year Dynamic purchasing system new people can come on throughout the life of it um and essentially you get pre-qualified pre-qualification questionnaire to get you onto it and then if you meet that then you can kind
Of go that way it gives the the buyers flexibility it gives suppliers a bit of flexibility as well often it’s used for things that might be quite in inative or they can’t Define all the requirements up front that’s typically where you might see those um so useful slightly different but similar because the
Tendering stuff as well um I think ni going to talk about value based procurement but essentially that’s that’s looking at things that aren’t just price based it’s looking at the whole contract value and lifespan to make sure that people get the right stuff out of that um and that’s kind of
Based on the back of something called value-based Healthcare a link here if you’re into kind of reading academic things from Harvard Business School Michael Porter if anyone’s gone to business school understand and his five forces looking at industry is’s taking it to to healthcare essentially saying what’s important for a patient how do
You incentivize good stuff around that um so some quick tips for getting procurement right um one know who you need to pitch to or or kind of address most procurement departments will ask that you speak to procurement early and engage them rather than taking someone a clinician or someone in a department
Through all the way through um there’s going to be if it’s really big or kind of a systemwide or Regional wide it’s probably not going to just be a single Tru trust is going to be a larger organization involved in that um decision-making process this is a little
Bit of kind of marketing training if for those of you you don’t know that bit so how do people actually make a decision on what they want to buy if they want to buy something probably they’re going to first anticipate or identify they have a problem or in need they can figure out
What kind of solution might be appropriate don’t know it might be digital it might be a device something like that and that bit there so they will identify potential vendors who can supply that need um they might ask for proposal or bids and they’re going to evaluate them based on supplier and
That’s kind of the traditional procurement functions we’re talking about here um and then they evaluate that product or service as when it’s in use that’s kind of a typical prototypical generic way that you’re going to do that um so the buying behaviors for a customer again marketing
One1 slightly is that most customers are probably unaware of a product to begin with in most cases they’ve not heard of it they then become aware of it someone lets them know that it exists and what it might be able to do you then try and give them a positive attitude towards
That product um and then you get them to try it to trial it either you know virtually or in real life try something I do like this it works it’s great okay um and then they they purchase it um that’s a very oversimplified thing the
NHS will go through a few Hoops to make sure it’s done safely on the right regulations that’s typically how a customer is going to consider what they’re going to do cons of any kind retail or busines to business um more of these tips essentially engage early with
Procurement they like it if you talk to them early um you can get a health Innovation Network to help you if you don’t know who to talk to or you can’t get much feedback sometimes be very targeted with your message um the word sales turns off a lot of people in the
NHS really quickly so maybe don’t use the word sales too prominently think about you know partnership collaboration or just kind exploring something information you’re trying to get rather than trying to get a sale you might be trying to get a sale but ultimately you need to get information to make that sale
Effective know your offering your competition know your company and your product and what it does where it fits how it’s helpful and maybe what else is alternative natives to your product be aware of those because they will check um and understand the process they’re going to use so if it’s a trust they
Might be doing it themselves um it’s only been outside the UK they need to have nice or other things maybe not necessary but it helps to have that to an evaluation um and and realize that probably no one single person in a hospital or Health Trust or Health
Organization can purchase on their own they’ll have to get other people to agree it and to kind of do all the paperwork behind that um I do a few Qui quick little pra kind of practical tips for completing a tender this is just really kind of barebone stuff you need
To know if you’re filling in anything if you ever done anything online virtually all of them are digital now um I’m of an age where I remember doing them on paper Printing out huge bound copies that were then sent by Courier or handed off to somewhere by the deadline to make sure
They were received by the receiving it’s all electronic now they’re on different platforms where you can put your documentation on that so get your documentation ready early if you have General things that get asked all the time like your company accounts information I registration number things
Like that get them in there um don’t leave it till the last day obviously if you can’t meet all the mandatory requirements you’re probably not going to proceed there’s no sneaky way of getting around if they say you have to have something and you don’t have it it’s not going to
Happen um if you have questions early on ask the tendering body make sure they know what that question is they can give you answers in time to see what’s going on if you have a question someone else probably has that question too um a little practical last one have at least
Two people with access to online tendering account so essentially you don’t have one person if they off sick or they go on holiday you’re not missing something make sure there there’s multiple people can access the same thing just to get it going forward um lastly a little bit here so what is
Commissioning so essentially that’s what the NHS does in general the really big ticket stuff looking at how they use the resources appropriately and procurement in and Contracting procurement is acquiring the goods Contracting is doing the contract behind it they’re all part of that cycle but not necessarily the only things um different organizations
Um so there’s a lot of stuff in there so I’ve kind of race through but that’s kind of giving a really highend kind of view of it some of the interesting bits I think Nick youve got some slides as well if I stop sharing I’ll let you
Share your ones um and then once Nick’s done his presentation we’ll we’ll run over into some questions let you ask him specific questions I see the chat’s got some already but I’m gonna stop sharing now and then Nick if you wan to that’s great thanks perfect okay thanks uh um Matthew I got
To you went through those pretty quick 40 odd slides there right I try and make this a bit of fun um procurement should be fun working should be fun shouldn’t it so this used to be called my NHS procurement conundrum but I’ve changed it ever so slightly to include the Net
Zero aspects of this um when anybody is looking to uh get involved with the NHS um these days they need to be looking at sustainability Net Zero and also the C Corporate social responsibility they make up in some cases 10% of the scoring criteria so all the other things you could be really
Neck and neck with someone but if you haven’t got a really good um sustainable procurement aspect and this uh social responsibility um aspect in your tender you could miss out just ever so slightly um and and it’s so it’s it’s very important I’m not go reading all that
Guys you can you can have I’ll give you these slides you can have them you can read that at your leisure it’s what what um Corporate social responsibility is this is a new slide that I’ve added because obviously um things have changed um we’ve got to deliver a Net Zero by
2040 um and um there’s a report there that’s got links to it that that you can read there’s the and the government procurement policy the PPN um that you that you’ve got there now this slide’s quite important um because not a lot of people know this last year all contracts
Above five million had to have um when when suppliers and put their bids in or they responded with expressions of interest to tenders Etc they have to publish a carbon reduction plan scope one and two that’s their own sort of um emissions and to some of the suppliers
That they buy off and and and and the the supply chain things um and there is a carbon reduction plan template which I have access to that I can share with people but next month sorry after next month from April 24 everyone who is going to go and do
Some business with the NHS has to have that carbon reduction plan in place otherwise you’re not going to get seen um and as one of the guys in the mark Carney I think he was the one of the the guy who led the bank um he said anyone
Who doesn’t have a carbon reduction plan they’ll go out of business and it’s probably 100% right this slide here is just a little bit of where all money goes well not going to go through it you know you you you’ll see all kinds of stuff on there about um
And that was 2122 so you can add another 5 10% on that for 22 20 sorry 2324 right Matthew did touch on a few of these things these are where people go fishing if you like this is where the buyers are and you need to be you know
Looking at the second one contracts finder a government poll everything over 10K in some cases 20 but a lot of trust used use the 10K anything over 10K has to go through contracts finder it’s not just for hospitals it’s for all public sector so even a big tender still has to
Go through contracts finder and that will then automatically go fing onto the find me attender high value um web um portal then you’ve got the likes of NHS sh Business Services they are a one of about half a dozen um framework providers so they create they create digital Only By the Way digital
Frameworks for all kinds of platforms um all kinds of Digital Services apps and things if you if you’re in a digital world it wouldn’t go a Miss to get in touch with them get to understand how you can become one of their framework providers there could be something du in the next
Few months that really suits Ed yourself to that particular thing there’s things like um gcloud which is run by Crown Commercial Services as well didn’t put them all in there NS supply chain you would have heard of used to be the 11 tows it’s changed it’s gone back around
Again in a big circle back to NHS supply chain and of course there is the individual trust that you can um make contact with and I’ll talk a little bit about that in a minute by the way just to let you know I’ve sold to the NHS t
As well back in the day when I was head of procurement at basento hospitals I got a company in and we looked at automating the process for tenders quotes um everything automated filing electronic requisitions out for 10 blood gas analyzers and 10 blood gas analyzer suppliers would bid for the quantity of
10 they don’t see each other’s prices they come back in descending order the buyer would then ping out the the purchase order to the winning Supply and all the others got a little email saying I’m hopefully sorry you lost the business I ended up working for them I
Had to go leayn out to sell because I was I wasn’t too bad at buying um so I I went on a um a sales course with 2x IBM software sales guys over six weeks they taught me everything I needed to know how to get the gig how to how to win
Someone over and go down to their hospital and sit in a room and how to close on the day and and stuff and there was some clever things that I learned and I ended up selling this procurement software into 60 hospitals and I share all that now with all the people that
Come through our um Health Innovation Network my wife says my claim to fame is getting it into hars three times using the same wording and the same tactic how I got into to the hospitals I might tell you a little bit more about that a bit later on right there’s L there’s someone
Once asked me about what the winning formula was so we’ll just concentrate on the blue and the green here we’ll leave the pink one out for a moments but the winning formula for anyone going into a hospital setting is if you’ve got a product that’s Innovative it’s a lower
Price and a better outcome you’re going to be listened to and no doubt or hopefully purchased if it’s the same price with a better outcome that is also a a winning ticket onto the losing formula you would be surprised that sometimes people come to us they’ got a
Product that’s the same price as something that they use now and it’s the same outcome it does the same thing well no one’s going to get excited and no one’s going to really move the mountain and and do business with you and it very occasionally once or twice a year
Someone comes with a worst price they try to fill the story around it and it’s the same outcome that’s not going to get looked at I was in Birmingham wants doing a talk on procurement and some bloke puts his hand up well what happens if it’s a slightly higher price and a
Better outcome and I have to quickly think he’s right and that’s where value based procurement comes in if it’s a slightly higher price but a better outcome where the the people who are sick are not coming back around again in a year’s time or six months time and and
They’re living you know a a better life a better patient outcome well obviously that now being seriously looked at and um you know taken on board one of my m one of my and best movies is the Magnificent 7 with Yol Briner and my magnificent 7 things about
People with a good value proposition is what’s the problem you’re addressing I won’t read them all out but there’s some good stuff in there and the most important slide when we do a value proposition with a supplier anme who’s trying to get into to those hospitals is
What’s the ask what do you what do you want us to do for you what type of clinicians do we need to gather around to meet with your good s or are you offering um a pilot or an evaluation do you need access to some funding to try
And help you get onto the next you know onto the next level I used to when people used to uh come and see us face to face pre the you know the pandemic I used to draw that sketch look this is the pipeline this is
Where you come in and this is where we can sign post you and I got fed up so I’ll put it on a I did a a schematic like this so basically the suppliers come and see us we meet with them I offer them procurement advice if they’ve
Got Sumit that’s ready we can start looking to fire it down into different Avenues that’s an old slide there that needs update and it’s no longer the healthtech connected NHS supply chain now it’s not 11 towers and obviously NHS sh Business Services still going but
It’s all to do with me and my colleagues to get you over the Finishing Line it’s within our interests to help innovators get over the Finishing Line otherwise the government might turn on and say what’s the point of these Health Innovation networks you know they don’t they don’t really get people over the
Finishing Line let’s go back to basics or let’s try a different route one of the suppli is and I know this is going back to 2018 but it’s just a little piece this on a supplier who came to us who we helped and they had some um District nurse scheduling
Software so digital stuff little platform apps and stuff and they we we got them involved with Salford um Royal hospital and their dig their District nurse team and they built this C platform and um it it was a roaring success we even got them 30,000 worth of funding to to build this
Um and they went on to great things they a year or so ago they sold out to a big company um and just before this Awards night they have these awards every Northwest procurement development Awards in procurement they have it every year and they had it in Manchester at the
Midland Hotel and I said to them a week before why don’t put your names forward for this you might you know it’s a good night you know it’ be nice to see have a drink um anyway they put the names forward didn’t they um just in time and
Loone behold we’re all sat around with our Dicky bows on obviously um Anthony there on the left he he didn’t put it to Keo one um and lo and behold they won the best Innovation award for non-clinical and they won the supplier of the Year award because you know
People voted for that particular service so it’s it’s what you you know we we we do to help everything that we can do to get some of these smmes onto a you know a good footing we we will do this is um just a little quick wph as
To what how it all works we we Matthew included and all our colleagues and other uh 13 organizations Northeast kria Northwest Coast Health Innovation Manchester there’s Oxford where the health Innovation Network where you guys are all coming with your tsunami waves of innovation and we can either deal
With you in the first instance or we can even signpost you onto the new NHS Innovation service a new Gateway for Innovation and once on there there’s a couple of the health Innovation networks they do a first agage review with you and they look to um signpost you to all
The other ahsns or several of them and then what we try to do then is build up interest in our own uh hospitals or our own sites and see if we can win some traction we I normally bring people on board into our own Gateway if you like
The Innovation Nexus and we start seeing if we can get some um traction and we post all the good stuff back into the Innovation service um portal so that other hins can see what we’re doing and maybe it just jolts them and say oh I
Could do that or let me have a word with the supplier and see how we can get you to do s similar things this is a little bit about some case studies that’s online about the Innovation service some good things that’s happened won’t go into that Ino much detail but my slides
You’ll be able to go in there and have a look around and listen and what sorry read some of the some of the good stuff that’s happened and this is is um an important slide how to break into the NHS you know think about how well does your product
Um do things compared to what’s being used at the moment if you’ve got that you know you you you’re on a good um you’re on a good track really and then look at how much it costs for your product or device or service against what they’re doing now and sometimes we
Sometimes people don’t know what would how much it is now or how much the pathway is or the process um the procedure well we can we can get access to that and share it with you so that I mean sometimes some people come to us when they’re doing the value proposition
They don’t know that they’re at an early stage they don’t know how much they should be charging I’ll give you a example here of a company I won’t I won’t mention the name but it was to do with maternity and um they were costing something out that
Was that was so low in price that they were struggling and I said to the lady who ran the company I said how many of you are there working for you and she said six or seven so I said well you need to be looking at about
700k 100K per person turn over to be doing reasonably well and I was taught this when I was a young guy going in to business businesses and factories looking at how they were doing things to try and get them more profitable I was always told ask how many people work
Here 200 should be doing 20 million 20 should be doing 2 million that that scenario so I said to her you’re not charging enough now with me with a procurement hat on people would there be some procurement people like this throwing rotten cabbage at me but we
Don’t want that lady to go bust and go out of business when she’s brought something that’s of value to the NHS so I said you need to totally revamp it and we changed the pricing she upped the pricing and she’s gone from strength to strength now and that’s what I like to
Do as long as my taking over nicely and I’m helping people I’m I reckon I’m doing a decent job right this is the bit I mentioned about the old herod’s piece so I used I got taught when I was on that sales course with the IBM sales software sales
Guys to ring someone so I’m going to ring Matthew Lawrence now he’s the head of procurement of Oxford um Hospital hello Matthew my name is Nick Allen I’d like to know if you could kindly advise me what the correct Protocols are to do in in in regards to
Um doing business with your hospital trust and how we might be able to um Supply and offer savings and stuff in relation to the products that we sell now nine times out of 10 Matthew and all the others would say what are those products what is that
Service and then I’ve got him I’ve got him now and I’m saying well what we do is and then what I would say is how are you free next Thursday he goes into panic mode oh no no no no you know I I can’t be seeing you next Thursday I’m
Quite busy man I would say well you got your DIY with you flick it open I I could be down in your area the Thursday after or the Tuesday and I would gently gently bully him in a nice lovely way to give me a date and I’d be down to Oxford
I’d have everything ready I’d do a presentation of the software my procurement software I’d show his staff how good it is to use and then I’d hopefully win him over that way I got it in 60 hospitals um using that now back to my wife when she was used to listen
To me booking all these presentations and going off left right and Center down the South Coast London Newcastle whatever she said you seem to be very clever at getting into places I’ve got these alternative therapy products ancient Egyptian healing rods she runs a spiritual healing Retreat here in North
Wales and one of them is these healing rods copper and zinc yin and yang you look at any statues in Egypt you you’ll see them these rods in the hand so she said see if you can get me into harod when Al fired was the the the uh
The president or the chairman so I found out who aled’s PA was I made the call hello there my name is Nick Allen I’d like to know what the correct Protocols are in doing business with your organization in relation to the products that my wife sells oh what are those
Products got it and I did that and we were down on the train two weeks later and we’ve been down there a couple of times since so it does work I’m not saying it’ll work for everyone every time but it certainly worked for me and that everybody ladies and gentleman is
Enough from me any questions that’s great thank you Nick um I think what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna let if people have a question they can put it in the chat as as a written question or you can put your hand up and
Then we’ll call on you um so I can see Ana’s got a question so I’m going to hope relle has got the magic way of of letting her mic and camera come available and you can ask your question any if you want to go ahead hello uh yeah I don’t know if you
Can see me but I’ve actually met with you Matthew before so you know good to see you um yeah I’m I’m in on the floor with my baby I hope you don’t mind she might make some noises um just a few question yeah so cu you know
What my product is um I was wondering um when you talked about framework or the dynamic purchasing system um I got the impression that the latter is a bit easier um and what is what is sort of like how do how are you eligible for that um
Option so for the DPS one you mean yeah yeah yeah so actually Nick do you wanted to handle that one so I so okay yeah so I take it that we’re referring to the London procurement partnership DPS Dynamic ping system or are we talking about um a med surge um DPS that’s run
By NHS supply chain um I yeah I just thought I had the like there was the options of doing the framework or the DPS it’s depend what it isation it depends it depends what it is so let’s just say you’ve got a digital product aice device so so it’s a device
So we know that what what you would do is you would um go through um your nearest H who would raise a um a form electronic form and that would be sent to a guy called sha Gill and Sh all these for the DPS supply chain they would go
Through they would then go to the team at the NHS supply chain and they would then contact you they would talk about your product and talk about the F and the evidence and with a view to getting you onto the DPS a dynamic purchasing system is a fast route to get onto a
Framework fast route because a framework let’s just say Matthews head of procurement of Oxford and they’ve just let a um a framework last year for three years in a in a product that your particular device meets or is similar well you are going to get on on his
Framework now for another two years they’re a year in however with NHS supply chain with with the DPS the dynamic P system like open like a saloon door open and that close you can go in if if it meets certain criteria if they believe this is where where it’s got the
Efficacy and the evidence that you’ll probably get the right to go on to the the DPS okay can I just add a little bit to that because since we met Matthew I’ve actually um I’ve gained some interest for the product from um a Manchester hospital so it’s the foundation trust St Mary’s Hospital
So oh yeah yeah I know so we’re looking at a collaboration now um where it’s first it’s a sort of a proove of concept then the next step is a clinical trial I’m just wondering if if this all has positive outcomes um does it change anything with the process or or will
That maybe help me to do that that easier route that you just mentioned like I’m just thinking if if I involved them this early in the development uh and research phase of the product if that will give me an advantage with the procurement it gives you evidence
Doesn’t it so yeah so I think I don’t forgive me I’m not sure if you’ve got the regulatory kind of C marks and stuff in place or the UK CA marks in place already so just to make it really clear to get on any of these Frameworks or DPS
Is typically for a device you’re going to have to have your CE and things in place that’s kind of a given so if you’re kind of in a development phase where you’re just kind of doing the research and getting kind of the evidence to to get the regulatory stuff
In place you won’t be on a framework for those you have to have that that kind of evidence Place once that’s in place you can then get on either DPS I think the one that that Nick’s referring to is the Medtech Innovation Dynamic pushing system that’s just been kind of
Announced recently and that’s really to kind of get really Innovative things out there really early um and they want things that are genuinely Innovative so not like Nick was saying same price same outcome things that actually have a big change so if you’ve got the evidence
That says this is really you know really changing better outcomes that’s going to help you get on to those Innovation Dynamic purchasing systems or to get into trust that’s definitely really helpful there I know Nick if you want to clarify any of that as well no no every
What Matthew just said correct yeah okay thank you yeah but and if you need some specific help come back to me and maybe Nick and I can do a joint call with you to talk through any specifics for from Manchester and also what you’ve already
Talked to me about as well um so I’m aware that the other 50 people don’t know what we’re talking about but yeah sounds really great an you well done yeah great thank you good to see you as well yeah you too thanks if any else has got a question
Just just raise your hand we can let you open up the mic or put it in the um in in the chat function there as well um the general question everyone seems to ask is can you get the slides afterwards and I think Michelle’s answer that one
For us which is yes we’ll get a copy of the slides to you as a PDF afterwards so you don’t have to worry about all the information in there um and there’ll be recording of the session as well so you can go through all the bits that I race
Through to get make sure Nick had his time to go through there and also hear kind of Nick’s stuff as well um but any other questions just please raise your hand um it could be anything can be about procurement it could be specific around kind of you know purchasing I I
Think one of the great things that Nick’s just talked about is really kind of how you get past those Gatekeepers the feedback I get from innovators quite often is I’ve got a great product but no one the NHS will talk to me or I can’t get through to them why w’t NH England
Take my call or I could fall in the hospital and say I’ve got such a nice company I got a product and they go you’re not interested so it it’s I think like Nick’s saying it’s being a little bit make get getting the interest up before you start presenting the product
On the price so that’s kind of that’s kind of really good sales technique or kind of really just engaging with your potential client getting them interested in the potential behind it and often if you remember that thing I was showing you about kind of they’re not aware of
What you will have or what you can do they become aware then you want to give them a positive feeling to it and then they’re more likely to go into kind of a purchasing mode as opposed to having a negative one early on yeah sell the sizzle not the steak says Nick there
Yeah so it but you think I want to sell something I should say my product is this it costs 10p 20p 101,000 whatever it is that’s going to get me a sale but it needs to be much earlier than that you need to develop that kind of relationship develop an understanding of
What you’ve got and where it fits um and the thing about the Frameworks and they out there is me there are a lot of products on these I mean so it’s a catalog in a way you get on to these cataloges because you’ve got a qualifying product you’ve done all the
Right things it doesn’t guarantee sales you can go into someone and say you’re really that’s great I’m already on a framework so you can actually buy me much more easily um what happens sometimes is they’re really interested in buying it but to buy it they’ll have
To go through a six-month to a 12-month procurement sometimes if it’s a large value one and that’s not going to help them now if you’re on a framework already it me really shortens that purchase period down lets them do things right away um do any other
Questions we must have done such a good job um Matthew that they all all the answers a procurement perspective or I think they’re all on the herod’s website looking for for the kind of the power rods that’s what I’m looking for yeah I’m gonna be there um but yeah so I I
Think Dennis do you want to come in with a question we’ll open up I think Michelle if you can do the the magic you do with the microphone thing that’d be great D I’ve just um allowed his mic he just needs to unmute himself all right so you might you have you have
Mute on your teams and if you unmute that you can do it or you can ask it through the chat if that helps we’re rooting for you Dennis I am aware that there’s there’s there’s Zoom there’s teams there’s Google meat there’s there’s Apple stuff so every every platform Works slightly
Differently so um and even though we’ve been doing this for a few years now with Co and everything they keep updating and changing um so we can’t hear you yet so if you want to type it into this chat that might be a good way to get the
Question through if that’s okay because really sorry we can’t hear or see you on that one um got a problem here yes okay sorry that’s that’s not a problem Dennis don’t worry um once you got sorted out come back on and then we we kind of try
And answer that one but in the meantime if there’s any other questions um I mean the bit I raced through at the beginning we will send those slides out but just be aware there are a lot of Frameworks um and there are a lot of categories a
Lot of kind of towers and places where these things go one of the things to do early on is to figure out where your product service sits and make sure you get into the right one and then talk to the category manager the person who’s responsible for that area the department
And they will really they want to be helpful they want to get as many products on there as possible they will help you get through that um it will be a bit of a learning curve if you’ve never done it before but they really do want as many people as supp ERS as
Possible and they really want to bring good value good outcomes things to the NHS because the re main reason everyone’s here is they want to do that Nick do you want to jump in yeah Ju Just wanted to say some people ask me um when we talk about Frameworks which framework
Should I be on do I need to be on the mall no you don’t need to be on the mall and I certainly wouldn’t say just go on one but if you can get a couple if you get a couple you know like if if you’ve got digital products Crown Commercial
Services with gcloud that opens g-cloud 13 comes to an end in the summer and they’ll be opening up for gcloud 14 it’ll go live in November so you’re talking about August September when they’re starting to re Redo for Gard 14 then the following year it’ll be ready
For 15 then the fall at 16 so that’s a good one a lot of NHS trusts use that for digital products and services um other one was NHS share Business Services there’s north of England commercial procurement collaborative that’s another big one you’ve got London procurement partnership and there’s
Another couple more on the on the south coast so shop around have a look um you don’t need to be on the mall but you know if you if you’re on a couple at least that NHS buyers are looking for things and another thing I mentioned about contracts finder was get on there
It’s free of charge and you can go back and have a little look at the typee in the type of service or products that you’re looking to get into the NHS and you might see some older um tenders and you can have a little look at them and
Go oh I could have done that and find out who who sent it out and and what framework were they pushing it to you’ll you’ll see stuff like that and then and they and you know make a a judgment there my question is the list of framework DPS suppliers where you could
Possibly will be subcontract readily available where like is the list of the framework suppliers yes so I think as a quick answer these are the ones for Crown Commercial Services they do have a list of all their existing suppliers so if you know you’ve got a product or a
Service that fits under something you can find a supplier that you know does that you can say look I can subcontract I can supply to them and they can supply it through the framework that’s a way to get into the framework while it’s closed and then when it comes open again you
Can keep that relationship or you could then enter in like Nick said you can start doing that and and getting onto that framework yourself um but they should be I could me see if I can find a link I’ll find the link and I’ll try and
Put it in the chat for you um similarly they will most this is Public public information so it’ll be published for everyone’s use so that’s useful again for a purchaser who goes who can I who can I buy this off of I want to get something they can look on there as well
So it works for everybody having it available that way so in the meantime I don’t if there’s any other questions um that’s no I think all of them will probably so NHS supply chain will also list kind of who their suppliers are under each kind of category or column or or Tower different
Words for it as well um there’s different on different services will do the same yeah so on so you find DPS youour all sorts of information so on the on the end of the one I’ve done so on my slides when they come out the PDF there was a bunch of links which
Includes Crown Commercial Services NHS supply chain everything else so Crown commercial it’s commercial. gov.uk here’s the main link for that one um and that’ll apply to the other framework as well um and you can kind of see in there um information and and if it’s digital
Lookout for when you go on that website look out for um gcloud 14 or G gcloud 13’s live now and it’s going 14 that’s a good one clear coats we have a product that doesn’t fit in any existing NHS supply chain categories how
Do we get them to set up a new one well you could go to your nearest hi you could ask them to um talk about your product they could then raise a product form to Sean Gil who’s is he up in Northeast Matthew Shan’s a manager of of in
He will then share that with the team at NHS supply chain and they’ll probably have a word with you CLA with regards to getting this brand new Innovative thing that you’ve got I’m quite interested myself yeah I think the distinction there so to get in on that what what
Nick’s talking about there it should be kind of a Medical Technology Innovation um and it has to have gone through NHS Innovation service has to be reviewed by NHS supply chain and accepted as an Innovation or the referral has to be made through the Innovation Supply team
Or like ni just said through Health Innovation Network um and then they’ll look NHS England Department of Health and Social care will look and see if it meets any of the kind of categories so if it’s BR really because generally if something is really Innovative it won’t be under an existing category because
That is the actual definition of innovative it’s brand new unanticipated so that’s exactly what they want to do they want to accept that and not make things sit around for three or four years until another thing opens up so definitely get in touch with them
Probably the best advice is to talk to a health Innovation Network we can help you navigate that um you can go to NHS Innovation service which is innovation. nhs.uk they got some guides on there as well but talk to Nick or to talk to me if it’s very procurement specific I’d
Really suggest talk to Nick he knows much more than I do if if it’s generic and kind of stuff that you can talk to me but if if you’re not local to either of our healthy Innovation networks you can talk to your local Health Innovation
Network or you can talk to any of the 15 we’re really not that um we’re not exclusionary that way but we’ll try and probably nudge you back to a local one because they will know the local link for you if that helps um a question how to set up chat with you
Nick um did you want to share my email address up to you Nick if you’ve got it the public yeah I’ll put my email address in in case anybody wants to chat and anyone that comes through Matthew I’ll share I’ll copy you in in each instance y just out of out of courtesy
Yeah so I mean so if you don’t want me to involved that’s absolutely fine just say tell Nick I just want to talk to you because you’re amazing that’s fine um equally so we play nice so the whole thing about the health Innovation networks is we we are a collaborative
Organization so we do work with each other what we’re trying to do is find amazing things at least somewhere and then share it across as many places as we can that’s kind of what we’re here to do um it’s not to kind of keep it and hide it away in Manchester Oxford that’s
Not the intent the intent is to get it across all of England if it’s appropriate for that but to help you as the company with that idea to get it done really effectively oh great that’s wonderful Michael yeah um so yeah if it helps to speak to as
Many as possible so if it’s so and Nick and and the team up in Manchester know a lot of stuff obviously lots of great health care stuff going on the hospitals and the trusts around Manchester um also it seems obvious but but Healthcare in Manchester will be different than than
Healthcare down in London not hugely different but there be might be different Regional kind of priorities that are different different ways of working around the Manchester that they’re more of a kind of I would say it’s more of a long term it’s been more of an integrated care system um on a
Formal basis than have some of the other ones which have only been around since 2022 not to say anything’s better or worse just to say there’s different relationships so it’s always good to know kind of the local scene when you do that okay um so we’ve got a couple minutes left
There any more questions um raise your hand if you want to or put it in the chat if that helps um I think the general kind of answer to all of it is yes get in touch with us that you’re always welcome to do that if that helps
Um contact Nick directly contact me directly um we’ve got generic email addresses on our website I think info Health Innovation oxford. org is our general kind of um email address for anything if you’re not sure whether it’s for us or for someone else we’ve got our websites there’s also
The health Innovation Network website um which has got information about all 15 of the health Innovation networks um a lot of things out of NHS England but the one thing I can assure you is that whatever it is right now is probably going to change um Evolution rather than
Revolution but things will evolve in change so if you’re not happy with it now or you feel like something to change they’re open to that so NHS inland’s open to that all the kind of procurement kind of leads are typically open to CH positive change and like like Nick
Alluded to it’s really about being more strategic really kind of Lifetime kind of relationships as opposed to I buy it cheap and then I run away they really want to buy things on a regular basis and get Innovation into the mix to make sure it meets kind of whole pathway
Whole lifetime costs for the NHS that’s the way it’s going generally suitable for some things more than others but yeah it’s really opening up trying to be much more accepting of different ways of working as positive for everybody okay so I gonna I’ll close off and say thanks very much Nick let you
Say goodbye as well thanks for um allowing me to come and chat about procurement and all have a fantastic day and a really pleasant evening so great thanks very much everybody um we will send out the slides again we’ll get Nick slides get the slides I did as well um
Lots of links in there so so great thank you all very much for joining us it’s great to to see and hear from you if we’ve met with you before thank you for joining us again