Hartlepool United legends Michael Nelson and Micky Barron join us to discuss Pools’ managerial changes, the ownership situation and possible takeover, what the club needs to progress and what the future could hold.
Hello welcome to inside Northeast onle football it is tonight a holly pool United special uh we’re going to be looking at everything going on with pools where they are in the league in the National League at the moment and what the future could hold under Kevin Phillips um I’m pleased to say I’m
Joined by two absolute Legends of the club Michael Nelson and Mickey Baron um over 600 appearances between them uh a fair few clean sheets promotions and everything else in between and we are going to give Nela a chance later on to discuss uh how all of a sudden um at the
Age of over 40 we’ll say he’s uh learn learned how to take free kicks which has uh been quite quite a novel addition to a g but uh yes we are here to talk about about pools um as it stands jents obviously I think everyone would probably associate pools with being a
Football league club but they are in the National League um it is sad to see them in there Mickey um but they’re there for a reason you know that’s where they’re at right now they’ve got to deal with it but it is s to see them where they are
Yeah 100% I’ve um I’ve done a lot of commentary this year for them uh and been a lot of games and it’s not only them the teams out they played on Saturday sou then who were a massive Club you know they brought a big following in and there’s been quite a
Few this season but it all goes back down to unfortunately some mismanagement from the chairman downwards I’m afraid that um some bad decisions involving the guy in the top right hand corner here and Spike and and maybe just not giving them long enough to do a job that the
The would have been successful in and then from there just the new manager came in and brought a lot of players from Scotland and it just didn’t work out and and that spired in on losing the position in the league and and this season they’ve been up and down if I’m
Honest they’ve had a few good spells but it hasn’t been the season everybody wanted and then resulting in the change of manager and then since Kevin’s coming has been an upter but that’s coincided with some decent players being brought in I’m being honest some experience in the key positions that he
Needed El as someone sort of obviously being on the inside of the club in recent Seasons I mean to see it where it is after what felt to me from the outside an avoidable relegation must be heartbreaking after the work you and and Gem Lee put in yeah I think um you know
During that season the the sort of buying you were getting from the fans and the atmospheres that were generated around the the sort of Papa John’s um run that we had you know getting beat off uh of Rotherham um and sort of having that cup run in
The FA Cup as well fantastic trip down to Crystal Palace um and you know results tailed off in the league um towards the back end of the season but um it was sort of geared up to to be moving in the right direction and then um
For whatever reason um I one of the reasons was that couldn’t afford couldn’t afford to start the the next season slowly um so they made it they made a change um and it didn’t really work out um didn’t really start the next season um in any real form and it’s it’s
A unbelievably tough League to get out of the National League um there’s some like Mickey seers you know there’s some big clubs down there um and clubs who can spend quite a bit of money as well you look at not County and rexon the money they spent to get out of it and
Chesterfield doing pretty similar things this season and running away with it um so yeah it’s it’s not an easy not an easy League to get out of and it’s a one that established League clubs can get stuck in for a number of years well I
Was going to say do you feel pools as a club I mean the the supporters have also been through before in recent years before coming back on the day of CH H channelb do you think maybe underestimated it as a football club underestimated just how strong this national league is yeah I think
Obviously this season they had a really good start under John ASI and and I was at the game actually at Chesterfield where they’re winning 2-0 and they end up getting ba 3-2 and lost a couple of the better players they have been unlucky with injuries with dods and
Manini being missing but they just seem to get on a run where they couldn’t win a game they couldn’t get the next result you know and and and like now said there’s some really strong teams physically and sort of with Squad depth as well and I think party for a long
Time struggled along with trying to put defenders in that didn’t suit the league they were getting sort of they needed two Center HS for a long time and um I think everyone knew that the fans knew that and probably the staff knew that as well but when Phillips came he he was
Allowed to bring those in he signed two good ones in parks and waterfall were exactly what they needed but there’s it’s just that sort of recruitment for me is crucial in that League they’ve got to get the right players in and they’ve got to let the
Right players go as well I think a lot of the time people only speak about bringing people in to make the team better but it’s sometimes making those hard decisions about who you let go as well just to to revamp everything and and I’m sure Kevin will be looking at
That over the next sort of few weeks and months looking ahead for for next season but like I said to get the right players in is going to be really crucial for them this year more more than happy for e the in here but obviously there’s still ongoing issues with the ownership
Of the club in terms of a a potential sale talks happening then denials and all this and it’s all being played out very publicly I mean that’s not going to help anyone involved at at harle poool United as they’re try and get out of this league in the near
Future no I think you know I think you need a bit of stability and a bit of um continuity um if you want to go on any type of run in any League really um you need the the off the off field side of business running pretty smoothly so that
The the players can just solely focus on on the job in hand um you know sometimes you can see where clubs are in turmoil and it it does Galvanize some teams but you know that’s largely down for short spell really it doesn’t really happen where a team in turmoil sort of does it
For a a full season so um I think when you can have the the stability um in the B board room and behind the scenes um it does make a a more enjoyable and a more relaxed feeling for the the players to to go out and do the business um and unfortunately
For for Harley pill for for one reason or another um they haven’t really had that this season has been a little bit up and down and is there going to be a takeover isn’t there going to be a takeover is the current chairman going to put money into to strengthen the
Squad or isn’t he um so you know that can be a little bit distracting for for the fans as well and to to not create that atmosphere that they had sort of 12 to 18 months ago yeah I think Mark just going on for what elel said there’s been
Times in the season where the clubs felt really together and then there’s been times when it’s been really separated and I can’t remember which game it was but it was a game after the take over where it was pretty hostile in that crowd and I think if you look at sort of
The new manager coming in as well if you’re Kevin Phillips you’re walking in that door thinking well is this going to be the chairman is this is what he’s promised me going to come to fruition is someone else going to take over from that so I think a lot of uncertainty I
Think players will sign I think you’ll still be able to sign players but it’s it’s like n said it’s the fans are still uncertain there’s still rumors going around that he’s going to sell it whether or not they’re true we don’t know but there’s still that uncertainty
Around the club and I think I saw I really saw that when they were choosing a new manager because I know there was other linked and they didn’t want to come just because they weren there weren’t 100% sure how the club was going to look in three or four months time
Yeah it hasn’t it at times it hasn’t been nice at the ground this year I’ll be perfectly honest with you but to be fair to Kevin since he’s come in that sort of he sort of galvanized them and it does feel like they’re getting back
On on track you know and they’ve got a manager and sort of a group of players that the fans want to get behind I know going back to the very early weeks of the Season it might be in the first home game actually again Gad I was there
Covering the game for the Sunday sun and it felt um there was enthusiasm there from the supporters you know obviously they’ got the win uh some signing scores D War scored uh twice that day didn’t need to get the the win um but why do you think it sort went
Downhill so quickly I mean you look at the start of the Season as you said earlier it was pretty solid but then when you get towards Christmas and you saw results going against them and you know you mentioned stuff like the Chester Field game um what a boost that
Would have been beaten who I think we can say easily are the best team in the league right now and and will win the league I mean where did it go wrong I guess is the the basic way to put it yeah I think obviously the lost key
Players the start of the Season Mark they were really strong down the right hand side they had seon they had dods and they had manene all linking up and they were really really strong obviously dods got injured who was a big player for them man Cheney gets injured and and
I’m still I know all the fans love him but I’m still a little bit unsure because he just doesn’t play enough games for me and then I think they got stuck in in a cycle of bringing aone player in and playing them in a position and kept on playing them there yeah and
They just didn’t seem to want to change the system that did the John wanted to keep the same system and when you watch it was crying out for something different and I think they just got in such a bad rout under JN that they couldn’t get out of it you know and had
A result here and there but it just seemed inevitable at the time that sort of early promise of the Season feared and so quickly and it was just a matter of time for me that John unfortunately lost his job and and everyone was really pleased with him at the start of the
Season everyone was sort of champing him as he’s going to be the man to get us up but that’s that’s soon quickly changed as the season went on does that mean I mean sort of been slightly critical Raj saying but do you think he had no other option but to let JN
Go um I think there was a bit of pressure on him um to make a decision to do something different different like Mickey said um in terms of like it was crying out for Mickey seeing a lot more games than me but it was crying out for something different in terms of possibly
Tactically or shape or or something like that but John sort of stuck to to what he knows and what he does and and maybe the chairman sort of took it out of his hands and thought well if he’s not going to change then I’m going to have to
Change something so um got a little bit of the the new manager bounce when Kevin came in but then um sort of tailed off a little bit with with a couple of couple of losses in a draw in the in the last three um but yeah I think that’s pretty much been
A the way The Season’s been like Mickey says the pickup results here and there but never really get on a on a a real good run they did have a good spell where they went I think they went five unbeaten um obviously when when Kevin came in but
They need to sort of if they’ve got any aspirations of of doing anything you need to try and extend that into into a real long run um and I just think it’s been a little bit of inconsistency throughout the the course of the Season
Yeah I was I was sorry but I was talking to some fans on Saturday before the game and they were like it’s just sort of typical that sort of the the manager John asky was crying out for two Center halfs it was literally everyone in the
Ground would see it it you wouldn’t have to watch many football matches to see that that’s what they needed he loses his job and then the next manager allow to bring in two seter halfs and if if they brought those in a couple of months earlier the season might have been
Totally different and the fan went on to say look one week we’re looking at relegation we win a few games then we’re thinking oh we can get in the playoffs and now they’re only five points off relegation again and there still need to be careful it’s it’s they’re not clear
Of that sort of relegation Scrappy you’ve got a they’ve got a tough game at the weekend and they need to pick up some points um and he the fan was ining it’s just a typical life of a Harley po fan you’re looking up then you’re looking down and and that’s what happens
Yeah trick tricky few games coming up I mean obviously going to Gat next Tuesday as well and then Halifax are one of those awkward teams in this division that just know how to pick up wins they’re always kind of there or thereabouts then you go to Rochdale uh
You can see the fixes in the bottom of the screen there I mean it’s a tough little run is it’s probably really basic question again but is the jury still out on Kevin Phillips as as a long-term answer and he got some good results when
He first came in I think it’s one of them where only time will tell and I think um I think they need to stick the trust in somebody um I think there’s been too much change um I think they need to sort of really give somebody a
Little bit of time to to to implement their philosophy and their their stamp on the club um because there’s been a lot of change um in a short period of time um and you you you just end up with it not being a a window as such in the
National League if you’re going to let people bring players and then you change a manager he’s not happy with the players that he’s got so he changes the players it takes time to get them players to to Jael and to play the way the manager wants to play and then he
Doesn’t do well and everyone’s crying for his head so you change it again you go through the same cycle um there’s got to be a point where you you see right we’re going to we’re going to stick with them we’re going to let him try and get
His philosophy and his style into the club um give him a real good chance to to sort of get his feet under the table and and get used to the club and the the club get used to him as well um I’m not not one for agreeing that you know
Every every manager like six games away from getting sacked and that’s literally what it is like even if you win six in a row you go and win six in a row what you lose your next six old people crying for your head like so I just think it just
Need to stick with him and and give him give him the time and the the time really just to try and Implement himself on the club and and see how he does so so if I can flip that round and look at it from Kevin’s point of view having worked closely with him
When he was at South Shields and knowing what what he asked then I mean you think about it he needs answers from the club as much as they need answers from him I guess yeah definitely I think the one thing Mark I’ve I speak to people at the
Club quite a lot and the players and stuff are enjoy working with them and I think that’s a great place to start from he’s made he’s made quite a few signings I don’t think all of them been brilliant if I’m being honest the two Center halfes have been the rest jwy
Still out on quite like three or four of them have them made the team any better he might have had to sign a few people just to get people in so like I I’m a big believer like now said give him preseason let him sign the players
He wants to sign let him really have that time to spend with the and give him six months give him a year to see what he can do with that group of players so big thing for me at the end of the season is if they can keep money if they
Can keep him because he’ll guarantee your goals I don’t think they’ll be out do if I’m being honest I think the season he’s had and the goals he’s scored he’s a good player and I think teams will come looking to try and to try and them if they can keep them you
Build your team around them and you and that’s key for me in the summer whether they can do that or not should say we’re according this on on Monday night and he set a play for England C on Tuesday um another shop window that’s used by AFL
Clubs on a regular basis I know there’s a piece in the non League paper on Sunday about over 100 players have play for England C in the last 25 years have gone on to play in the football league or in professional football at some level uh whether that’s in Scotland or
Or or elsewhere I mean whenever I’ve seen P this season he’s been the key for me because he like you said he’s the one that gets the goals he’s the one that gives them an outlet up front and do you think because again we go back and I’m trying not to
Keep coming back to it here but the off field uncertainty is going to make them uh even more attractive to potential buyers because they’ll think we could put a a half decent offer in pools may feel have to accept it yeah it also makes the the attraction of an offer um
More attractive to him as well going to a club that’s a little bit more stable if there’s a lot of uncertainty around Harley he could be loving his time at the club but if there’s that uncertainty and he’s got a chance to go into a a
Club higher up the levels who have got more certainty you know no no off field problems then that might make it more attractive to him um he might not have been thinking of leaving if if everything was was sound off the off the pitch but you know every you have to
Weigh everything up when when something happens and I’m sure regardless of what he does between now and the and the end of the season I’m sure there still be clubs that’ll be willing to to take a risk on him come the summer like Mickey says for what
He’s what he’s done not just this season but um throughout his career I’ve played against him and he’s a handful um you know he gets goals he causes problems and he if he’s got the right people around him he’ll make goals for other people people just by occupying Center
Half so um I’m sure there’ll be suits for him um Can the club hold on to him um it’ll be a matter of time um to tell whether they can or not I think I think one thing that people don’t see with him and I’ve watched him a lot this year is
Hold up players good he he’ll hold the ball up and two or three Defenders will be around him so he creates a lot of space for people but he is phenomenal in his own box defending set pieces defending any sort of cross into the box he’s he like an oldfashioned Center
Forall he used to come I remember Paul Wilton the player of MRA used to come back just head everything out and he’s he’s he’s so good at that part of the game as well and you don’t often say that anymore it’ll be up to the manager of
How he can try and persuade him to say he might be saying look if there’s a takeover happens it might Galvanize a club we might move to another level and I think that’s a way Kevin will probably have to sell it him but like now said I
Think you you’re going to find it really difficult to hold on with him someone that’s scoring 20 plus goals in that league and who has all the attributes that the teams are looking for in in sort of That League two League one level we we spoke about a lot of inconsistency
This season whether it’s in team selection or form or anything like that but the one consistent factor in the club has being the supporters I mean you look at the crowds they’re still strong you know they way backing the club gets no matter where they going there’s some
Awful Journeys in this league you know they’re always there where the noise they the backing they give even through through the tough times I mean the fans have been uh they’ve been unbelievable this season to be honest after they’ve gone through it over the last I mean I
Was going to say the last 18 months but you know however long the club’s been on this little roller coaster they’ve been on yeah definitely I think you look at the home crowds and the home crowds are really good and the fans go to support the team yet they’ll
Give some stick if they don’t like what they say or they don’t like sort of effort levels if they don’t think they’re good enough but we f are by far the way the best in the league for me they are amazing how they travel in numbers and and sort of just that pure
Support that they give the team I was surprised on Saturday I was at the game against South End and it wasn’t a very good game it was a nil nil it was probably four shots and at the there was a little bit of unrest during the game
And at the end of the game the referee BW his wh and I was expecting a chorus of booze and the whole crowd to well nearly the whole crowd stood and applauded them off because the seen some effort they’ seen some sort of some players that were playing for the shirt
And it’s a cliche I know but that’s what the harle PO players want harle pool fans won I remember when I went there someone said the perfect result is 43 win being 3-0 down in halftime so they can have a bit of a comp and and then
Winning 43 but they just want that effort and I mean as I say I’ve seen a lot of games this year and they they really are magnificent yeah I mean the the home support um you know crowd were were fantastic when when myself and Spike were there but like Mickey says the the
Aare following that you get some of the places you go to is unbelievable you know whether it’s midweek or whether it’s on a Saturday um it’s unbelievable and it’s not just the fact that they turn up it’s the noise they make when they’re there like it’s frightening at
Times without singing the the home fans and stuff like that so yeah it is like you say the the one sort of con thing that that has been been there all the way through and I’m sure it’ll continue like that as well um but you just hope
That they can have something to really cheer about um because you know as we’ve seen um when we were there once it gets going um it’s an unbelievable place to be as some of them some of them nights when you see the the the flags and the banners and the atmosphere is
Unbelievable so yeah you just hope that it does turn around and and the fans get the the rewards really eight games left in the season um as you said five points above relegation I think now 12 points from the playoffs what is the aim for
The the rest of the season for for Kevin Phillips and the players well a couple of weeks ago everyone was saying they’re going to get in the playoffs I never did I didn’t think they’re could catch the teams above them um the teams they had too
Many games in hand that some of them are going to win I think now they need to make sure pretty quickly that they’re safe they need two or three wins to make sure that they’re safe and then what does Kevin do does he try some different players does he give
Some of the younger players a goal I know he’s brought a couple in on laan does he does he give them the last five or six games but he can only do that once a team’s safe I think there are players there who he probably does need
To have a look at maybe in a different position I think you’ve got a couple of players are playing slightly out of position we haven’t seen the best of them but the main thing is they need to make sure with a safe Mark by The End by
The end of the season and the quicker they can get I think they probably need three wins just to make sure that they are going to be safe else yeah I think um obviously security and safety is the main thing but I think um I think Kevin needs to or he’d be
Wanting to see who who he thinks he can do a job next year so which players he wants to keep which players he thinks are not good enough and and um are going to make way then he’ll know what he wants to bring in what he needs to bring
In start shaping his squad for next year but um the only problem with that is as we’ve seen when some managers start doing that it costs them the jobs so for all you think you’re doing the right thing by having a look at a few different things um and trying to get
Your you think you you’re see you can’t go up you can’t go down you’re pretty comfortable let’s have a look at a few things let’s mix some things up let’s have a look at what we need for next year who we want to keep for next year
And then all of a sudden you get invited down to to somewhere and you get the you get the sack because um results aren’t going well so ultimately as a manager you’ve just got to keep winning um so it’s a it’s a a real tricky one but I
Would think that’s the way he he’d be looking at it trying to make sure that the safe then sorting his Squad out um give him give him through till preseason because there’s a lot a lot of work can be done in a preseason to get the team
To how you how you want to play get them bed in um so he needs the time um and he needs to sort his he Squad out for what he wants and I think that’s what he’ll be looking at yeah I think the the thing
Is Mark a club me and Nelsa sport is about a lot when we together applied and I’ve spoke about it when I’ve done other thing they should have a BL blueprint of how the club wants to play yeah and when the next manager comes in he doesn’t
Change that blueprint the club needs to have an identity Swansea did it for years next manager comes in yes you might change one or two people but the system and the style of player doesn’t change and then you’re not going to have this sort of or the summer will get rid
Of 10 players and bring 10 more in and I remember years ago when stavy Howard G back was like I doesn’t fit this system why I brought them back that should never be the situation of Club low L clubs because if you have an identity in a style of player you just
Bring in a manager that knows that style and then it’s continuity all the way through the young teams can play it all the way through the senior teams and we don’t have this every end of season oh we need 10 new players to fit this system because of managers change how he
Wants to play you’ve kind of just killed my last question sorry it was gonna be what what does the club need moving forward how does it need to change but you’ve kind of encapsulated that it needs to have like you say it’s like the Brighton model isn’t it the manager go
They have players to come in um yeah that’s perfect you run it off ABS it makes your recruitment a lot easier not just not just your recruitment process for your players but your recruitment process for your manager yeah so it narrows it down in terms of like a manager who’s going to
Come in and fit what you want rather than just being a free-for-all and going and picking somebody who’s currently doing or care or been doing orare you know you fit someone who you someone who fits the the profile and the style of the club so it makes the whole
Recruitment process from players to Staffing a lot more streamlined and a lot should be a lot less risky as well and on top of that you’ve got a coacher Tony sweny who’s a good coach but he’s probably been asked to coach three or four different ways throughout different
Managers ten years and if the club has that blueprint he’s coaching the same we all the way through through so he can put the same messages through to all the players that come in like I said for me it’s the younger ones coming through as well that they really know that I’ve
Spoken to Craig hignett about this I’ve spoke loads of different people about and I think it’s key for teams that are at lower levels of football speaks of volumes that swen has been able to adapt as well isn’t it to so many different management styles and different sets of
Players as well given how many have been in and out over the last sort of three four years but Jens that’s been fantastic that uh a Mark can I just sorry to interrupt you can I just see it a good friend of I know mine and Nelson’s is having a bit
Of a tough time Jo Allen yes I’m in contact with someone that’s trying to help him through it um he’s hopefully coming out the other side of it and with a lot of support from a lot of people around him he’s going to try and get to some gamees so if anyone’s
Out there and sees him go give him a pat on the back give him a cuddle um just have a chat with him and just check he’s all right because uh as I say he’s going through a pretty tough time so just send him a little bit of love Yeah an
Absolute Legend in terms of Northeast well Northeast football I was to say on league but given him what he did in his early years at Newcastle and elsewhere um yeah I go that message if you see Jord again go and uh have a word see how
He is put an arm around the shoulder and uh show him show him some love certainly deserves it uh nelse I’m going to give the last word to you because you are still playing you are still coaching um in the northern league with ches Street United um it’s worth having a look on
The on their Twitter just to see uh couple Nel’s free kicks which have come from nowhere still still enjoying us yeah look it wasn’t something that was planned the the groups really really young all sort of college Lads um and they were struggling struggling and and
Gambo the manager asked us if I’d go in and be a bit of an experienced head just for a game or two and that game or two is turned into about 15 or 20 I think B um yeah scored a couple of free kicks and then I scored a header on Saturday
As well so um no I Look to keep you young playing with like playing alongside 16 17 18 year olds and just trying to see if some you know it’s all right coaching them but sometimes you go in you play alongside them and you be able to speak to them and stuff like
That and you hope it rubs off on them and and I think it has results have improved we they’re doing well they’re developing they’re they’re a great bunch of lads um and you’re a long time retired so um just got to mention that s enough has he three got rescinded Michael got got
Resed we don’t need mention it three games last week 90 minutes Tuesday Thursday Saturday he what a legend I mean you the deadline’s coming up for registration so Mickey if you want to put your name on a form and get back in get back out then I’d have to get I’d
Have to get signed off by m of 40s team so Jens many thanks for that it’s been a fantastic half hour discussing pools and Michael Nelson’s free kick expertise um best of luck pools for us the season Jen keep doing the great work you’re doing uh with BBC’s and with chesse Street
United uh many thanks for joining us uh we shall see you next time cheers