Nuclear Physicist Reacts to Sabine Hossenfelder Small Nuclear Thorium Reactors are Coming to Europe

Nuclear Physicist Reacts to Sabine Hossenfelder Small Nuclear Thorium Reactors are Coming to Europe

Check out Sabine Hossenfelder’s Channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/sabinehossenfelder

Full Original Video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4XahwtJUk

Thorium Reactor Video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=148NI9j23Kg&t=16s

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In this video, I react to Sabine Hossenfelder Good News: Small Nuclear Thorium Reactors are Coming to Europe video from the perspective of a nuclear physicist. I go through the Good News: Small Nuclear Thorium Reactors are Coming to Europe video of Sabine Hossenfelder and look through what is accurate information on Sabine Hossenfelder Good News: Small Nuclear Thorium Reactors are Coming to Europe video as a nuclear physicist and react to it.

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What savine hossenfelder recently posted a video  about small mod reactors coming to Europe but   specifically thorium powered reactors that got  my attention and here I am to react to this   video and let you know all about my perspective  as a nuclear physicist on it without further  

Ado let’s get into it I already like from the  thumbnail that usually people when they talk   about Thorium reactors they put the thorium sign  there because there isn’t really much to put in   terms of pictures or designs or layouts you could  put like a diagram or something but nothing really  

Built to be used like this thumbnail says nuclear  power yes please and uh sure I can agree to that   uh however nuclear power yes please SL nuclear  power by thorium is a whole another discussion   we have had a video about Thorium powered reactors  and their advantages and disadvantages in the past  

So you can go check it out but uh let’s see what  saine has to say phasing out nuclear power is   the dumbest thing the Germans have ever done each  well with that everybody can agree I really like  

How she starts the video straight on by saying  that the probably biggest mistake of Germany as a   country was the fact that they just shut down all  their power plants and stopped generating energy   by nuclear energy and uh they didn’t really have  the backup Solution on that and that was basically  

The biggest problem because it’s not so much so as  to if a country decides not to use nuclear power   but they have a very good alternative or mix of  energies that could supplement the same amount of   power that they require or electricity that they  require without the need of nuclear but when you  

Don’t have that and you have a very dense energy  source such as nuclear and you decide in a day   to shut that down and then when you’re asked okay  but what’s your alternative you don’t really have  

One there’s a little bit problem over there  so I’m glad that she calls out also her own   country it couldn’t be the easiest thing to do  but scientifically speaking politically speaking   and logically speaking the decision was not the  wisest when I say this on Twitter people come  

And tell me that Hitler did a few things that  were even dumber I disagree Hitler wasn’t dumb   he was evil he knew full well what he was doing  I’m not at all sure the current German government  

Knows what it’s doing and that isn’t a good thing  either the German opposition to nuclear power is   especially curious as our next door neighbors the  French and Dutch have no hesitation to use nuclear   power to its full potential and especially  France since this is the country in Europe  

With the most uh use of nuclear power to produce  electricity and neighboring that country even in   terms of fearing a potential outlandish accident  it would affect the neighboring country such as   Germany nevertheless even if you are a country  that doesn’t use nuclear power but is in need  

Of energy and buys electricity from countries  that produce electricity by nuclear power do   you see the problem potential indeed companies in  both countries recently teamed up to bring small   thorium reactors to Europe let’s have a look at  what’s new the news is that two companies Nara  

Of France and thiz of the Netherlands have signed  a partnership agreement to work on thorium fueled   small nuclear reactor I’m quite curious as to why  was the choice thorium reactors um it is of an   interesting question to ask since if you remember  the biggest kind of drawback with a thorium is  

The fact that you can actually separate those  isotopes that are used for proliferation reasons   to make nuclear bombs so for a country that has  nuclear weapons there is a potential or maybe   an interest there but for countries that don’t I  have a really hard time seeing how they will move  

Forward with a reactor design as such with this  kind of inherent feature since they don’t have a   license or any way of proving that they will not  use these separated Isotopes for other reasons   thoron as the name indicates specializes in using  thorum as nuclear fuel Nara is already working  

On I don’t know this websites and companies  so I really want to check the rizon climate change use salt as base for both Fuel and Co  has sever benefits first recycling waste our   reactor does become a waste burner the amount  of waste it is quite interesting how this is  

Uh always put forward as an advantage it is an  advantage it’s just a little bit hard to grasp   since the fuel is already molten there is no  potential for corm since the fuel is already   melted also the salt can handle very high  temperatures at make it sa measures less  

Costly than with traditional reactors lastly  there’s no water used in the reactor this   means past accidents resulting in the releas  of radioactive materials are no longer possible so carbon free decarbonized energy n nuclear  abandon affordable resourceful energy for all  

Is a fch company okay also a fence company one  that is De centralized and can be installed   close to Industrial consumers and in remote  areas okay this all makes sense and if both   of these these companies are basically French  then the potential of them developing thorium  

Powered reactors is actually viable let’s see  Netherlands have signed a partnership agreement   to work on thorium fueled small nuclear reactors  thoron as the name indicates specializes in using   thorum as nuclear fuel Nara is already working on  small nuclear reactors and they want to combine  

Their technology with the thorium course from  the Dutch in case you’re wondering what their   logo is supposed to show that’s a reddish yes a  reddish because as they explain on the website   the reddish is a root vegetable that leaves no  waste as the entire plant is edible so is is  

Their way of showing that they will not leave any  waste because they’re basically going to burn the   waste from the nuclear industry that currently  is producing it that’s that’s kind of cute I   can get behind that the idea is that rather than  building one huge and expensive nuclear plant at  

Location you build smaller reactors that can then  be transported to the place you want them so the   difference between in size in terms of small  modular reactors SMR and the ones we have been   building so far the typical light water reactors  is the fact that as Sabin also mentioned the  

Light water reactors that were built so far have  literally been built on the side that they were   decided that the nuclear power plant will be so  the building and everything is being built onsite   the reactor vessel the building around it so it  is a huge construction and it is several buildings  

Big for it to feed all of these components and all  of these parts that need for the reactor to work   and produce electricity however the SMR small  modular reactor it is quite big in a sense that   it’s not really small is basically relative right  is it’s small relatively to the reactors that we  

Have been building so far but not small relatively  to I don’t know H kitchen table so in that sense   a small model reactor can still fit into a room  like a quite big tall room and as saine says can  

Be transported by a truck basically and it will  be approximately around 1/3 of the power output   of the light water reactors that we’re currently  using and uh modular does mean made in the factory   shipped around the board and installed this  is a great Advantage because you don’t need  

To even own the technology or know how to make  these kind of reactors in order to use them you   can basically buy them from companies and install  them in countries that need them or in industries   that require additional energy and reactors are  still standing for the fact that these reactors  

Will use energy by Fusion to produce power and  consequent electricity and the like and the like   small modular reactors have the potential to solve  the two biggest problems of nuclear power at the   moment which is that building nuclear power plants  is expensive and it takes a long time though if  

The small modular reactors will actually solve  those problems only time will tell the so it’s   a little bit of a tricky situation there as well  because small modular reactors haven’t been built   yet in a kind of streamline production process  therefore when we start building small modular  

Reactors it is estimated that they will cost  more than the light water reactors we already   kind of know how to build and there is some  experience there but the idea with the smrs   is that the more you build the cheaper they  become basically like any other product when  

You make the first one the first of the kind  it will be expensive and there will be some   back and forth in terms of fixing some stuff but  once you have streamlined the process similarly   to take aviation industry you know how to make a  particular type of plane and then you just keep  

Making it and it becomes cheaper and cheaper the  least intervention you need to do in the process   of fabrication two companies who have signed  the new agreement say that they want to cater in   particular to the industry where such a reactor  wouldn’t be connected to the public electric  

Grid you can also use the heat from the reactor  directly rather than making electricity from it   first which improves efficiency so there’s great  flexibility like Sabine mentioned already with the   small modular reactors and this is the fact that  since they are small and uh kind of compact and  

Flexible in terms of power output you can really  install them in industries that are very energy   demanding so you can help the industries produce  more electricity for making whatever products or   Services they are making and uh therefore not  being so Reliant or heavily reliant on the grid  

And on the other hand small mod reactors depending  on what type of reactor it is can also be used for   direct heating so it can be used for hydrogen  production production of biof Fuel and this   is mostly for the fact that the these reactors  will run on higher temperatures than the light  

Water reactors that we have so far but that is a  little bit of a confusion because small modular   reactor doesn’t necessarily mean that a small  modular reactor can be a light Water Reactor as   well it can be a reactor that doesn’t run at the  temperature that’s high enough to be efficient to  

Produce this hydrogen and biofuels and the like  but if it is a small modular reactor coupled with   a generation 4 design then this potential can be  h and that is because to have higher temperatures   you require coolant that is not water so for  example in terms of lead cooled fast reactors  

Then you would have an output temperature in the  reactor of around 550° C and this is higher than   the output temperature of a light Water Reactor  therefore there the potential is possible so SMR  

And Gen 4 sometimes is a little bit intermixed  when we talk we assume that an SMR is a Gen 4   and vice versa it is not necessarily the case an  SMR a small mod reactor can still be a light Water  

Reactor just in a smaller size what they call an  extra small nuclear reactor that will generate   roughly 40 megawatt of electricity and they hope  it’ll be done by 2030 Horizon is working on and   the hope to be done in the span of the next few  years it’s optimistic let’s see I haven’t heard  

Much from Nara in terms of actually what comes  after the research and the paperwork like in   terms of actually starting to build something on  a reactor with roughly 100 megaw that is targeted   at larger industrial customers they want to have  a pilot system ready before 2035 okay so Thon is  

Aiming for a almost double in size in the range of  small modular reactors or even smaller than that a   little bit and uh they are aiming to have it ready  by 2035 so a little bit of a less optimistic maybe  

More realistic approach for them especially  since they are aiming for a little bit of a   bigger system my still kind of question throughout  this video that I haven’t answered yet to myself   is why use Thorium in a way that France has lots  of uh nuclear spend nuclear fuel from its nuclear  

Industry that it is using and reusing and creating  the so-called MOX fuel mixed oxide fuel which is a   uranium plutonium fuel that is being burned and  kind of recycled in um reactors that they have  

Or plan to plan to build so why make a whole new  type of advanced reactor that might have its own   kind of challenges instead of making a reactor  that can potentially burn MOX fuel or I am still  

A little bit confused as to where does thorum come  into place with the Recycled fuel from the Frances   nuclear industry let’s see almost all currently  operating nuclear reactors run on uranium thorium   has attracted attention in the past decades as  an alternative nuclear fuel because an Earth’s  

Crust it’s about three to four times more abundant  than uranium it also can’t be as readily used for   nuclear weapons they if you make some effort  that’s still possible so saine mentioned that   thorium cannot readily be used as for nuclear  weapons even though with a little bit of effort  

This is possible so this statement is correct and  incorrect at the same time in a way that Thorium   in itself is not interesting for nuclear weapons  applications however a reactor fueled with thorium   is the perfect kind of machine to create isotopes  that can be used for nuclear weapons applications  

So it’s kind of incorrect to separate the two and  give thorium the advantage that is not interesting   for proliferation even though knowing that the  process with which the reactor that’s fueled by   thorium operates quite literally creates nuclear  weapons crate materials so I have to give to  

Sabine of a little bit of a homework as to how  thorium reactors work and uh maybe an additional   statement that explains a little bit more instead  of it can be possible it’s not just with a little  

Bit of effort it can be possible it is actually  very much likely possible doable and one of the   biggest concerns of the nuclear industry as  to why we haven’t implemented or heavily got   interested and attention into thorium fuel the  real advantage of thorum reactors is however  

That they can use essentially the entire thorium  not just a small fraction of it as it’s the case   with the normal uranium reactors the downside is  that since there’s currently no dedicated thoro   mining it might go into short supply quickly  so there are some commercial challenges ahead  

The small nuclear thorium reactors work not with  solid fuel rods but with the fuel dissolved into   a liquid salt this is why they’re called molten  salt reactors modern m M salt reactors as all new   reactors come with passive safety features in the  case of a loss of power the nuclear fuel will be  

Automatically dumped into a place where it’ll cool  rather than in earlier reactors go on to heat up   and potentially cause the core to melt so this is  the what we say the interesting or kind of funny  

Sounding phrase of since the fuel is already  molten a COR melt is not really a danger for   this type of reactor so I guess in a way that if  there is an accident that basically the fuel is  

Being drawn somewhere else and freezes and becom  solid and if it becomes solid it contains all of   the radioactive materials it’s not really spread  out it’s not there’s no gas coming out of it so   in a way it’s really contained that said nuclear  power is still dangerous and I fully understand  

That many people are OPP so that said nuclear  power is still dangerous okay maybe I should watch   it and not com quickly boost to the technology  because of the risk however but so what is the   risk because we are in the small nuclear thorum  reactors video and there was no risk proposed for  

The fact that these reactors can produce nuclear  weapons materials and they do if you operate them   but then a big radioactivity sign and saying  that but nuclear energy is still dangerous and   I understand that people opposed to it but why  what what is is the danger that we’re talking  

About because the biggest danger is the accident  maybe and you have already explained that the most   serious accident that can happen in a molten salt  reactor that runs on thorium fuel is the fact that  

If there is some problem in the vessel then the  fuel would just freeze so there is no really a   danger there and the second is the spend nuclear  Fuel and the fact that it will last for thousands   and thousands of years and it will still be  radioactive and dangerous and people might  

Not like the idea of burying it on the ground  and this solution basically solves that problem   because it reuses the fuel from the industry and  it burns all the thorium and it will last for so   many years so giving all of these positive kind of  advantages of these reactor types and concluding  

With a sentence of but nuclear industry is still  dangerous and I understand why people oppose it I   don’t understand why you would say that because  then it contradicts everything you just said in   the previous six minutes of your video so it needs  to be a little bit more context and not taken by  

Default that ah but people might just not like it  you know everything has risks and I think one also   needs to take into account the risk of not using  nuclear power because that means continuing to use  

Other sources of energy which also have risks so  that is the biggest kind of Thumbs Up I give to   Sabine is the fact that when we always discuss  about using nuclear power over Renewables or   over another source and maybe we should use that  instead of that the question is not if we should  

Use nuclear power or not but the question is what  should we use to phase out fossil fuel use so to   phase out fossil fuels and stop producing  emissions and basically contaminating and   destroying the planet we need to use all the other  energies that are friendlier to the environment  

More sustainable renewable and the like and those  are wind Hydro nuclear and everything else that   doesn’t destroy the environment in a way that  fossil fuels do so nuclear is part of that mix   is a very strong um part of that mix is a very  big player because it is the densest energy out  

Of all of them so when we’re discussing the risks  of using nuclear power we should also discuss the   risks of not using it so that I agree with nuclear  power technology has changed a lot in the past 50  

Years and I really think Germany is missing  the bus by not investing into it I agree that   Germany is definitely missing out I was chairing  a workshop uh recently in cars in Germany and uh   there we were talking about communication tools on  nuclear and nuclear research that uh the European  

Commission and the joint Research Center can  Implement in order to promote and talk a little   bit about their nuclear research in Germany  which was very nice and positive to see and I   was invited to speak there and um propose some  different ideas that they can use in order to  

Attract a little bit more interest from different  kinds of audience all the way from member states   and uh countries of the European Union and to the  public and the people that are interested or work  

In the industry or just interested to learn about  it so it was a really nice thing to see and that   they are planning things like that and they are  planning events like this and it is important for  

Them to communicate the research in a way so  I really do hope that Germany will change its   perspective quite soon and uh realize the big  mistake that everybody else have realized that   they have made and take it back and start working  on nuclear again so in case you’re from the German

Parliament thanks for watching see you tomorrow okay that was the video of Sabine on  small modular thorium nuclear reactors that’s   a mouthful and uh it was interesting to find out  that these two countries are collaborating with   each other from France it is quite as I said  understandable uh pushing this kind of design  

Because there is not really a limitation  or so much so of a problem building these   type of reactors however them being built in the  Netherlands or in any other country that doesn’t   have uh nuclear weapons then that would be a  little bit tricky in terms of the the country  

Or The Regulators accepting this type of reactor  to be built there however for France it does sound   like a very attractive and interesting solution in  terms of research at least as it is in this stage  

Right now cuz I’m assuming they have not started  building anything yet and uh I’m glad to see that   Sabine is bringing up nuclear news and uh just  things that happening in the Forefront of uh the   nuclear field for the people to get informed of  that so except for some minor um misunderstandings  

From Sabine side or maybe not explaining it uh  the way that perhaps I would everything else was   quite interesting and very informative even for  me as well let me know what you think about this  

Video down in the comments and if you want me to  react to any other videos of a nuclear related   context don’t forget to like And subscribe and  click on the Bell notification icon it’s been   Elina your friendly nulear physicist and until  next time see you soon and produce electricity