James O’Connor burst onto the super rugby scene as a 17 year old & had his first Wallabies cap at the ripe age of 18. His early talent marked him a stand out for rugby fans & a target for the Australian media.
As a young man mistakes are inevitable & James’ often made for good headlines on the back page & a tirade of criticism. Both of which hugely influenced his decision to step outside of Australia & explore career opportunities in Europe for a number of years.
Now back on home soil, it’s clear that James has made peace with himself & ultimately has nothing to prove, yet a lot to show for the journey he has been on. His 16 year career has been one of many twists & turns. He has battled substance & alcohol addiction, faced his demons & come out the other side with a legendary career that is still well & truly alive at the Queensland Reds.
Enjoy the ep & be sure to subscribe to the poddy on your platform of choice & share it with your mates.
You can connect with James & I on socials: @bradleyjdryburgh @jamesoconnor832
Big Love, Brad xoxo
James o Conor how are you mate I’m very well thank you excited to uh get stuck into a combo with you it’s been been planning it for a little bit mate this is exciting because you know I’m I’m 27 going on 28 I remember the first time
Ever come across you you were just absolutely ripping and tearing for the wallabies on the Rugby field and I wasn’t a rugby kid growing up of being a bit of a leagy my whole life and a passionate chooks fan got a couple of
Mates who play in the N now so I watch a couple of games of League week but I’ve always been a fan of International Rugby and that’s one thing that I’ve always been envious of as an NRL fan or as a league fan is that our International
Game just lacks a little bit compared to you know the international spectacle that you get with rugby and the I guess the um the quality of competition you have across the globe yeah in the game of rugby is pretty exciting mat you were a young wh snappa when you started like
17 was it 18 when you debuted 17 for Super Rugby and 18 with the Wes but that was one of the main draw cards for me because I played mostly leag growing up um then went to a private school in grade 11 um started playing Union but
That was a big calling for me was like I could see the Wes on this world stage and I’ve got Heritage in New Zealand South Africa over in Europe as well so yeah it was just almost that was a deep calling to um possibly go in that
Direction I the one I did so who did you support growing up being a Ley St George and the Bronx always so my Junior coach was John Dowling um St George Legend So every now and again you’d get some of the players down there but I actually
Signed with Paramount eels when I was 13 up until I left High School I was with the eels yeah so I was was to um to go there after high school but I had to change a heart and wanted to give Union a try first and and yeah the rest I
Guess is history so where’d you grow up grew up so born on the Gold Coast moved to New Zealand when I was five um in Tatu in West ockland lived there for five five and a half years and came back when I was 11 and back to the Gold Coast
Up on the go co so we’ve still got like my family doesn’t all live there anymore but we still have like our place down there Etc um and then yeah moved I was go coast boy and then moved up to Brisbane when I was 15 and then finished
High School 17 mov straight across to Perth to uh begin the journey with the Western Force do you know Nathan Charles do know Charles yeah I um I’ve I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice cuz like myself he has cystic fibrosis and um we sort of it’s weird
With CF you can’t actually meet someone like in close proximity because there’s a really high risk of cross infection which is like yeah so it’s really weird it’s like the one condition in the world where you can’t really connect with a community faced a face to share um I
Guess to share War Stories and you know share advice well I remember his story like he wasn’t meant to be playing rugby like no not at all man yeah and to what he’s done he’s he was very impressive play very athletic but his story is are pretty incredible yeah got his feelers
In rugby now he was still running this running the cutter over in last time I spoke to him but I think he’s come back to Sydney now yeah he’s doing something at um I think it’s unsw like sort of head of sport or rugby or something like
That is basically putting the brain to use these days got a bigger brain than me and um really nice lad and you know hearing him speak I think it was like mid last year we got together for this um it’s kind of like a I think they
Called it the rugby long lunch they had him and one or two other waby Lads come in and speak and mate I’m it’s G to kill me the great rugby commentator who he’s written a couple books what’s his name I don’t know man I can’t think of
Him he he MC the event was fantastic though some great stories getting around it and um yeah just loved hearing his stories but you know the Western force is quite a it’s quite an unusual situation over there because you’re stuck in the land of I guess AFL fans
Yeah and you know that’s very different to everywhere else in Australia where it’s you know mostly league and a little bit of rugby and you know so it’s ultimately a different kind of dynamic to get your debut in but what’s that environment like to step into a place
Where you’re maybe not in the spotlight so much you know but you eventually found the spotlight yeah you know how was that as as a beginning I loved it um like it was very different crowds I feel like the AFL like Community embraced us as well because we were just one team
There was two of them like Perth people are very passionate for like their local sports so we would still getting like great crowds we had good members we had a lot of sponsors like when I first went over to the game was thriving it was
Very new and um there was a big buzz about it um but yeah it did it did coming from like Brisbane I know that’s not like the most active and busy City compared to I guess the two others down south of us um but it was still a lot
More I guess active than per so coming to Perth I really enjoyed because it was just like such a Pure Life of rugby Beach hanging out with the guys we had our own little scooter gang we all eventually moved into one big house there was five of us all took part in
Cooking and cleaning and playing rugby O8 whoever lost had to buy dinner and it was quite a Pure Life um how it started obviously people still like going out and drinking and doing the things that young young men do um but I found per like a very it’s a very light place it’s
All I guess tailored around living healthily and um yeah a slower Pace anywhere in the ocean is always going to be cleansing bloody oath I agree with that would you describe yourself as a as a pretty rebellious character as a young man like just as you’re beginning your
Career or were you pretty plaed by Nature uh i’ I’ve always been one to experience life um and I do push the boundaries in terms of like where’s the line I won’t cross it but I’ll Tinker on it and why is that line there who made
That line why do I have to live the way that this person said like I’ve always been quite inquisitive I think my probably downfall was I would take things as a young man like I take things so personally so like we were bantering you will never be at bantering like I
Could not lose I was so competitive but then like I’ve learned so much obviously along the way different modalities from Human design to genan keys to astrology like I’ve learned deeply what I’ve come here to do and what my purposes are Etc and that was just part of my my lessons
And then um so yeah that’s where I sort of got into trouble was like people be like oh you know’s he’s doing this and I’m like I even touched on that like I could do so much more than that so it was almost like a challenge and at the
Same time was I guess me just it’s like I guess I had like that wound of like that not abandonment but like I can feel when someone is uncomfortable around me and then would annoy me I’m like why like why do you have this feeling about
Me like what have I done to you where do you think that comes from what that feeling yeah where that how I can feel with other people I think it’s just the way I’ve been my genetic makeup whatever you I guess people have so many different beliefs around the world it’s
Like I was talking about modalities like I know from Human design I’m a generator so I’ve got a very open Aura I know one of my Jean Keys is uh is provocation is my main one so when people come into my energy they’ll feel it either most of
The time it’s big and joyful and playful but when it’s not it’s not comfortable to be around even for me to be in my own energy want to get out of it see I’ve you know it’s interesting I’ve never really heard anyone speak about this what do you call it human modalities so
I guess modalities for me is like you got your e Ching you’ve got astrology you’ve got like there’s so many the cabala like so many different I guess Western and Eastern mysticism and I guess but there’s um I guess a modality for me is I don’t know if you thought
About human design there’s anine called Jean Keys no I haven’t really this this is new to me but this is exciting scientific based um but it’s also to do with I guess Planet the planetary alignments and what I guess what it tells you is like guess what you’ve come
Here to do and how you have you like have you heard about the anagram no man you’re hitting me with some new stuff here this is good oh do yeah man have a play like once I started like playing with some of these things and it just resonated so deeply with me
Each of them resonated I’m like how like I don’t understand how this can be telling me so much about myself that no one knows but I know it and it resonates so deeply I’m like how has this world been so perfectly created that these things can tell me something exactly
Based on Me based on the time I was born or where I was born and it was yeah it blew my mind so I started playing with it like going down those routes and just exploring and not all of it reson but a lot of it I’ve
Found over the years has given me some yeah really deep some deep wisdom and some things that I’ve been out to incorporate into my life that has made it a lot better isn’t it interesting that as we get older you start to you start to search for answers to
Explain and and sort of start to understand yourself a little bit and I think like it’s really interesting I heard I don’t know if you’ve heard of Ben Crow yeah yeah yeah yeah just I love Ben Crow’s stuff and you know he talks about these three big questions that we
All have to answer in life the first one of which is like who am I yeah and and I just think a lot of people try to skip that and go to what do I want yeah you know like the three questions sitting on your own pondering
Time it’s a hardest thing like look at Society now no one can be bored anymore everyone’s always picking up their phone you go to a cafe like it’s very rare that you’ll see someone just sitting there and pondering life and especially out people our age let alone younger I
To a blink182 concert the other night with my with my Ms and everyone just was on their phone the whole time I’m like everyone who was under 35 I’d say was just on their phone the whole time everyone over that was like embracing in the moment and dancing and singing and I
Was like that to me is like a there’s nothing wrong with it it’s just like we’re so caught in got to get that dopamine hit got to like entertain my mind got to entertain the master my mind’s my master whereas to know who I am that takes a lot of just Stillness
Quiet space reflection it’s hard work when you first begin but then you start to really love it but it takes practice I feel like you’d really like a guy by the name of Boyd vardy Boyd vardy is a lion tracker from South Africa a lion tracker yeah and he’s done an incredible
Job of but he’s not that gu with blonde blonde shaved head no no I know who you’re thinking of the guy who’s cuddling lines and stuff this morning on my on my feed yeah his his stuff regularly pops up on my feed but he um boy V is I once I once
Heard him on Aubrey Marcus’s podcast okay and arguably top three podcasts I’ve ever listened to I I regularly listen to it at the beginning of every new year okay just to get my head in the right space for you know I think you have to send me that one yeah I’ll send
You a link to it I I bloody love it man yeah it’s so interesting and he he speaks about line tracking as you know this this lost art that you know that they’re refining he’s got this um I guess you’d call it this Reserve called londel Loi and he takes people out on
These experiences and these safaris where they just track the lines for people to look at and you know it’s all about conservation he’s incredibly um incredibly good-natured guy but one of the things I love is his ability to translate line tracking into a guide for tracking your own path in life yeah well
And he just he speaks beautifully about it one of the things that really resonated with me at the time that I first heard this podcast was you know the path of not not there or not here is incredibly insightful because the next move is just take another step in a
Right in a different direction whether it’s the right one or not you’ll figure it out yeah you know and I love that and I think it takes time and there’s a lot of people who because of Instagram and social media have this preconceived idea that everyone has themselves figured out
Already and that it’s just the final destination as opposed to this ever evolving thing and I think it’s um it’s really important to remember that it it’s ever changing we’re constantly evolving as humans and it’s definitely a process where you have to become comfortable with being a little bit lost
Sometimes and yeah you I get the sense that you allude to that a little bit there in what you saying before yeah well I have this conversation again with my wife all the time is like it all depends like where like what are you praising like what does success look
Like for you like I feel like I’m it happens to me all the time I can get lost in the illusion of this physical world of trying to achieve playing for the wallabies playing for the Reds winning a title getting the next contract ticking along my my studies
Getting my NBA doing my coaching degrees like you can get so caught up in that physical that you forget like all well for me anyway this all that is just like the illusion it’s great to be able to express yourself in that way but really the journey is just me is me is
Experiencing them and so like when you’re always focused on like doing doing doing you’re never actually being I think that’s that’s been a key in my development and I always I again if you don’t learn the lesson just keep repeating but you learn at a deeper
Level but that’s one thing I keep coming back to is like presence is so so powerful so powerful you know so interesting because you’re in a profession where that at times can almost be discouraged because you’re in you’re in a performance profession right so you know it’s very
Much you’re judg by how you would achieve as opposed to who you are and I find it quite interesting one of the things I really wanted to to ask you today is at what point in your career and I’m not by any means suggesting you’ve mastered it because I don’t think
Anyone ever does but at what point in your career did you learn to remove yourself from the end result and be able to to be happy with who you are as a human being regardless of how rugby was going so the first time I experienced like being out of root remove myself was
Probably 2011 World Cup after that World Cup I had like a deep not deep depression compared to what I I have had but a depression of like wait this is it like I’ve done everything and like now I have to wait four years for another spectacle like this like what’s life
Going to be like and that started me on the track of like the process and okay reflecting what I actually enjoy about that World Cup what was like the point of me going through this like it’s all done like no one cares about it like this my whole life I’ve put into this
One moment and now everyone’s just moved on like how do I move on with it so that was probably the first one um but again it it grows all the time like I thought four years ago I was at that point but I’ve been out of realized well I was so
Far from it which is great like I I see that as like what a pleasure like that I can continue to like grow and learn I guess deeper about myself um but yeah like the probably the balancing was yeah maybe in in the UK was when I first
Could sep seate sort of James okona from the rugby player and like rugby player not only this is interesting like I’m a performance sport but the way I see me playing rugby it’s not just a game I see it as like my purpose as well like I was
Put here on this realm of this Earth or whatever it is to shine a light on something and I believe that I’ve been given even my awkward shaped body and how my mind works it’s very specific to Sport and rugby so for me like playing
My best footy I feel like that is my gift to be able to share so then to separate that from when things weren’t going my way or I wasn’t interacting as well with a coach or I didn’t I didn’t agree with the game plan or had resistance in different areas watching
How I’ve dealt with that over the years has been really really informative I’ve probably learned more these last four years off the field and how I had responded to different coaches and different pressures and how I’d maybe not have dealt with them as well as I
Thought of I would have in that moment from the knowledge I hold now and where I am in my life by just seeing how yeah how there’s so many different angles to the game how how important do you think it is like your move overseas I look at
That from an Outsiders perspective at a time in which you were very much making headlines probably not for reasons you always wanted to but you know you move overseas to another part of the world in which the media tends to be um less scrutinizing around kind of who you are
As a human being you know in Australia we idolize our sports stars but we also like to tear them down in the media and it’s almost this game of two and thr but I think about that move overseas and you’re almost like removing yourself from the noise how important is like
They want especially in France like even in the UK like there’s a culture of like drinking but it’s you go out for one pint after training or you have two and I like I had to learn how to do that but even in France like I always wanted to
Be doing stuff like when I was younger I found it very difficult to sit not sit still but to sit with my thoughts because I knew how I was so out of alignment and I was frustrated at the man I had become and the actions I was
Living and I was a yeah a man of many conflicts um but to move to France it was like it was very social like whereas in Australia I got for a glass of wine with my brothers or we have a whiskey or whatever it is oh Jameson was here
Drinking blah blah he’s not doing the right thing I’m like what the [ __ ] do you know about what the right thing for me is it turns out I wasn’t doing the right thing for me but who are you to tell me what’s right for me whereas now
If I did that it is the right thing because I know where I’m at my body and my mind but in France it was so like social there was always long lunches was always you’d go down to the water and have a couple roses and you go on the
Paddle boards go fishing there was all the community came together so much so they loved how I was because I’m quite a people person when I’m on and I feel that I’m interacting I’m I’m trying to learn French I’m speaking French with the locals so I applauded who I was and
That’s the first time I felt like seen and recognized that they didn’t just like me because I could play rugby well it was because like I became friends with these people yeah I love that could barely communicate with at the start but then eventually like yeah so I built a lot of
Rapport in that way and then that also taught me as well like how to not chase the extremities as often you know it’s interesting that you know we often frown upon people who make mistakes in life like we’re all perfect and you know the media does a a big job
Of really highlighting the mistakes and the downfalls of of people and and trying to challenge their character but there’s something that I think about a lot and I’m I’m a pretty um so I’m a pretty old soul James like I don’t had liver disease from the age of nine so I
Don’t drink and mate I’m I’m pretty [ __ ] rooted by 8:30 most nights I’m in bed pretty early with a misses having a cup of peppermint tea I’m I’m up pretty early like made it’s cracker every night before bed I’m pretty much an 80-year old man trapped in in a 27y
Old man’s body but so I haven’t made too many major mistakes in my life but I’ve definitely lost my way at times and there’s a there’s a story that I love I’m a big fan of guy Richie the director right yeah and I remember hearing him
Tell this story on Rogan and if my Ms can hear me telling this from the bedroom should be rolling her eyes because I’ve told her about this Theory this idea 10 times now and she’s sick of hearing it but it’s the story of the prodical son right which is a religious
Story I don’t know if you’ve heard the story if you know of it story of Joseph um Egypt into Egypt prodical son not not that one maybe mate I’m not as well versed in the Bible as maybe I should be for telling this story but I’m going to tell it from gu Richie’s
Perspective God so he tells the story of the prodical son essentially it’s a story of this you know this father and his two sons there’s the oldest son the youngest son and they work on the farm and the oldest son is incredible loyal to his father like if the father asks
Something of him he does it you know he wants to be there by his dad’s side he knows it’s the right thing to do and so he remains there on the farm and does his job and plays his part in the family but the younger brother who’s Restless
There’s something you know a fire in his belly telling him to go out into the world and experience something new so he leaves the father and he goes out into the world and he makes all these mistakes and these wrong decisions and as guy Richie says you know he finds
Himself snorting coke off strippers tits and making all these bad decisions and ultimately he loses everything that he has and finds himself with a job of you know feeding the pigs and ultimately off the back of that he can’t even afford to feed himself and without any form of
Communication the father has this this knowing that the youngest son is lost and so he sacrifices the fatty Cal goes out to feed the son and bring him home and the older brother is like so frustrated by that because I’ve stayed by your side I’ve been so loyal to you
And he’s gone out and made all these mistakes and wrong decisions and done ultimately what he knew was wrong and then you f you know you sacrifice the fatty C for him to bring him home and the moral of the story is that you know
You are the father and the eldest son is your intellect the part of you that tells you what you know you should do and you know it’s it’s the rule abider and it you know it it stays on the straight and narrow and it doesn’t make mistakes but the youngest son is that
Part of you that almost has to go and prostitute yourself to the world make mistakes to come back and find yourself in the end and I think there’s there’s no world or reality in which you find yourself without [ __ ] up a couple of times oh 100% isn’t that like that’s the
Beauty of it going out and exploring that you could look at the older brother as well and be like well what is his intention why is he hanging around his dad is it because out of fear is it out of love is out of wanting to be patted
On the head you’re a good boy and again what the youngest like son why did he go exploring like like you’re saying that’s his like that’s his gut it’s telling him to go out and learn about the world so it’s like there’s no there’s no right or
Wrong with any of it I think that’s quite beautiful especially for I don’t again this is another modality like they talk about your Saturn return at the age of 30 for men around 2930 so when we’re in our like especially our teens and our 20s our whole role is to go out there
And explore and make mistakes and learn from your own mistakes especially when you have a profile like mine then you get to 30 and for me it was like literally on my 30th birthday on the dot it was pretty much like [ __ ] I’m so dumb with doing all that what a waste of
Energy it’s tiring it doesn’t actually fulfill me at all going out I get nothing from it I found that out quite a few years earlier but I never like really said no I don’t want to drink anymore no I want to do don’t want to do
This no I don’t want to do that it was only ever for a period of time to be able to get my body in alignment and just to see what it was like to live that way but literally on the dot pretty much at the age of 30 it was like I’d
Gone out and experienced these things some beautiful amazing things and some terrible things and now that’s almost like in a portfolio or a backpack of knowledge that I’ve brought to where I am in this next part of my life where I know exactly what I like I know what’s
Good for me it’s not even like I don’t even have to think about like the logic behind it of do I wake up and do I eat this or is that a good food for me is this good training like I can just feel it so it’s like I’m being governed by
Like my gut now but it’s it’s almost married to that it’s like the younger brother and the older brother have like come together as one and put both of their like skill sets together I think that’s such a beautiful place to get when you’re like a young man growing and
You get that point yeah bloody oath and I think you know your experiences in a way if you think of yourself almost as a lollipop that gets put in the pocket to go on the journey from from here to there once you pull it
Out of the pocket and you have a look at it it’s pretty much picked up a little bit of everything G it that you’ve you know stashed along the way and all the experiences and ultimately like I see you sitting here now and you’ve had s
Mate one of the things that I was really Keen to talk to you about today is just the experiences and the little lessons you learned in all of the different environments you’ve been in because I look at your life and I think man what a fascinating Journey you know you’ve
Lived in the UK you’ve lived in France you know you spent your time all over the shop here in O it’s like you’ve had quite a unique experience and a unique Journey or let’s call it Quest because it’s still still unfolding But ultimately like what are some of the lessons you’ve learned from
Those experiences different rugby clubs over the year if you want to take us on like a little bit of a tour around your journey uh all right so West and force what did I learn um I learned uh how to run a team for
The first time so I came in I was a young guy I was just fresh faed I just wanted to learn from everyone and then the the maybe the four key backs who were running the team they all left so at the age of maybe 20 I was running a
Backline so it threw me into the deep end um I was like sink or swim and I was so I was yeah that was the biggest lesson I got from that was backing myself one because I was already playing like at a quite a high level but then to be able
To take on like that leadership at quite a young age that was very um instilling in me Rebels for me was more conflict internal conflicts of like the person I’d become rugby wasn’t quite fulfilling me I had there was like a bit of a split between the playing group um we weren’t
Winning we had some good players on paper but it was just it was a bit of a [ __ ] show to be fair um and I was just so conflicted and frustrated internally so that’s I started like seeking pleasure outside of rugby not that I hadn’t done that in Perth or my whole
Life because I’d always explored I’d always pushed boundaries but it became like a different intention for it it wasn’t like purity of like going out and hanging out was like I’m going to go do some damage tonight can I ask you a question on that quickly before you
Before you leave that was there a point in that that moment there where you’re not finding the pleasure the Fulfillment in rugby like you used to that you considered leaving the game all together that didn’t happen until I moved to France okay yeah well don’t don’t let me
Make you skip yeah you know so um so yeah the I nearly left Union I was pretty close to leaving Rugby Union going to League um at that stage because I was frustrated like I didn’t have the I didn’t what I could do on the
Field and what I saw on the field I couldn’t explain I hadn’t sat with myself long enough to yet be able to put it into logic so I could explain it to the coach or explain it to these players so as was My Own Worst Enemy I would
Just get frustrated I’m like [ __ ] can’t you see like look it’s so obvious to me like what we should be doing but no one could see that game the way like I saw it so it took me time to be able to actually okay why did I do that action
Go back over the footage oh because he tilted like that he was there and he moved there okay so that’s now I have a pattern I have a movement pattern I can teach that I can put that in a structure but that took me a little bit longer but
That was we’ll get to that later um so yeah left Melbourne went to London Irish London Irish for me was just purely to get out of the Fishbowl um and to just live like a normal person was at that time as well like social media just blown up as well
Like I was very we were unders scrutiny like me and a couple of my close friends who we were playing with and we all played different sports and it was just very hard to go anywhere at that time and not have something said about you who was that crew oh man there’s heaps
Of us hey there’s a few of us fewl boys few Lees quite a few players um but we’re all living in different parts of Australia at times as well we’d always connect up we’ always meet up and hang out it became like yeah there was a lot
Of trust going through that group we shared a lot um but yeah then I got sort of to London where it was like no one cared about an Australian rugby player was beautiful for me like it’s still my name carried enough weight still to get me into clubs and whatnot but it didn’t
No one else cared once you were in there so it was yeah it was um so was yeah it was it was a very like it was a dark time in my life but also like I learned so much about me and what I didn’t want
To do anymore cuz I really took it really to the extreme in London where like partying and going out and like I wasn’t looking after my body at all I was still playing good enough footy but like we were sort of mid bottom of the
Table um and I was playing fullback so I could I could do like three or four good things a game and everyone would still be like oh [ __ ] he still got it but meanwhile I wasn’t actually anyone near the player I was years before that
Because my body was broken can I ask you a quick question on that so you said that when you got to London because nobody really knew who you are there was something beautiful for you about that but I wonder is that a comment you can make in hindsight now looking back or
Did you genuinely feel that because I’d almost think that for a lot of athletes and people talk about ego like it’s a bad thing all the time I think there’s a good and a bad to Ego there’s the good in which it motivates you to push
Yourself and to get the best out of yourself because you have some sort of um you place some sort of importance on the way that you show up in the world and how you perform which is great if you’re an athlete or if you’re an athlete in any sense whether it being
Business or sport but there’s also the part of the ego which when nobody gives a [ __ ] about you and you’ve experienced everyone giving a [ __ ] about you yeah you’re like this is different how did it feel for your ego back then no fine I’ve I’ve had that feeling that you’re talking about
Later on life especially like the last two years um and just watching my mind go to that place has been quite interesting but yeah in that time my ego was still getting tickled enough because I was hanging out with actors and like people like I was hanging out with a
Good crew over there yeah there was all people on reality TV shows that we had there was a lot of so even though like my name wasn’t like it was just be it was good for me because I like I could do whatever the [ __ ] I wanted and that
Was what I needed for myself in that time was it detrimental yes was it like damaging it was but if I didn’t go through that like maybe I would be still have an urge in me to want to go do that I really got that all out when I was in
London got a part of me to really experience it to the furthest extreme and then be like all right I’ve done that now wasn’t that great like yeah there was some good moments but actually I don’t really enjoy that so now let’s go in a different direction again let’s
Go explore um that was London France for me was bit of sweet as well it was it was tough for me because it was very hard to crack I’d always been since I’d been at the force and taken over that Western force backline sort of running
The team I’d always been like the big fish in the team and I went to this Talon team and I could barely make the starting lineup one week I’d play 12 the next Wing the next 15 it was like a there was three international teams in
That one Squad so I was incredible like to learn from these guys and I learned a lot off the field as well just hanging around men and these were men I respected because they at that time didn’t realize it they had done great things in the game but they were also
Family men but they also had a streak to them like I always say like some of the greatest athletes always had that really competitive streak where when they go they [ __ ] go like they Zone in and all of these guys had it they very well balanced but when they went like if we
Were doing the social or I loved the fact that they would go hard and anything they did they did with intention so that’s what I enjoyed about France and I enjoyed as well social element of it I learned I enjoyed learning about French I bought like a
Little French car which was this little green toy convertible looking thing that I would cruise around in and jumping in the water all the time it was it was a very light time in my life but at the same moment it was I was still I’d come
Out of like my dark dark part and I was like finding I guess the light and learning about myself in a deeper way but I had addictions to alcohol and drugs and which I was battling I knew it wasn’t good for me anymore and I was
Trying to get out of the cycle of it but I was finding it hard to do it on my own can I ask you a question about that like when you’re in the heat of the battle with addictions was there ever a point in which you blamed the other things in
Your life for those addictions CU I think anyone who’s addicted to something there’s something deeper that they’re trying to solve a problem they’re trying to mask something they’re trying to forget about something they’re trying to get away from like was that were you in full ownership the whole time of the
Fact that this was a problem you had to face I knew it was I didn’t admit to anyone was a problem but I knew where myself was a problem like me and my my wife like we knew it was a problem she was very good with it such a fine line
With someone like if you push them too far they’ll run you don’t hold them accountable enough they’ll [ __ ] walk all over you and so but yeah for me it was mine was I just didn’t want to feel so deeply again I still was learning how to communicate I was still learning how to
Sit with my own feelings this was all new to me but it was like a Floodgate opened up and I could see how I destroyed my world what I saw was the greatest mistake of my life was [ __ ] I’ve ruined my whole career I’ve ruined everything and then for me to feel all
That and then feel all the pain I’d caused some other people as well when I was in my rampaging moments that was very hard for me to feel um as well I feel as well I was quite energetically depleted too just from again I was
Always out I was down as much as it was great to go down and have a Ros or mint dinner out or go exploring h i explored so much we’d go up to I’d travel all over France every weekend we would maybe fly to Morocco would’ go like I was
Doing so much but I couldn’t keep up and the way for me to keep up was substances so it was such a like [ __ ] Catch 22 where I’d get tired so I’d take something to help me party that night then i’ be tired the
Next day and I have to train so then I have to get up for training so I’m smashing like pre-workout smashing this a couple an inflammatories like it was just such a vicious cycle again like I told you then I got to that age of 30
And I was like oh [ __ ] done with all that that was cool to experience like it just for me it was just almost suddenly yeah I switched it off so interesting you said that you’re just trying not to feel deeply and I think that you know we spoke about it really
Early on that when you’re trying to figure out that the answer to that first question like who am I the pain of not knowing sometimes you you want to stop feeling like I’m a pretty um anyone who knows me James say I’m a pretty emotional cat you know what I
Mean like you’ll catch me crying over a movie what are you what are you cancer Pisces I’m an Aries Aries [ __ ] yeah mate I’m an emotional cat and I think I’m an emotional cat because like I love my people dearly and I feel like I feel so deeply because
Life means so much to me you know like and I I at this point in my life I know who I am and I know what means something to me in the world so when I feel I love that I feel deeply like I think that’s one of my greatest assets but when
You’re trying to figure out who you are and life is testing you sometimes you’ll wish you didn’t feel so deeply so I Wonder has that like switched for you now where you’re really comfortable with feeling emotions and experiences more deeply as a human what’s the beauty of life I guess everything you’ve been
Through at such a young age that’s what it’s so magical to you you’re so pro life because You’ you’ve seen how it can be taken away so easily so quickly I actually had on my fridge feel for a long time that was when I went on my
First like retreat and I went on a like I met a shaman and went delve down that route and back in like 2017 18 um metag metam turkey blah blah blah um what I got from that whole week two week experience of like spending time with
This guy and with these groups of people and communicating was I was taking that so I was I guess numbing myself or drinking or doing whatever it was almost to just block that bottom layer so then I could only it wasn’t that I didn’t want to feel
It’s like I only wanted to feel like nice and positive and then when I felt here I could explore the world and ask questions and sit with myself like my body wasn’t agitated I’ve left i’ taken something to make my body and my mind be
Here and then when I asked her who are my questions it was really Pleasant to like I could still see the [ __ ] I was creating but I wasn’t attached to it because it was almost like I was out of my body so then I could start exploring I started reading I started doing
Research I’d watch YouTube clips fing for four hours at night to 2 am I was like down the rabbit hole of conspiracies of what’s going on in the world like so like that was so again it wasn’t the best like I wouldn’t recommend it to someone to do it that
Way but for me it’s crazy that these this period of my life where I was still getting off substances but just taking them a little bit actually helped me delve deeper which is not something I like to say because it’s not the answer but for me
Again it it took a long time I prolonged it because of that and then there in inside that became another [ __ ] ego illusion where no no you need to take that because that helps you get to hair or whatever it is so that’s a whole
Other story but for me it was it wasn’t about not feeling it was like I only wanted to feel the good stuff so then after I had sat with myself explored and learned a lot more about myself was I no no I wrote in my fridge feel everything
So I had a big piece of paper feel everything every morning I’d walk past it feel everything and that just reminded me like if you don’t feel the bad you’re good like where’s it’s almost like two different yeah like the end of two different extremes if you never feel
The bad your good can’t be all the way over here it’s just neutral it’s a beauty in being neutral but like that’s that’s how great life is is you want to have the extremities you want to love deeply you want to feel such sorrow you
Want to feel Pride you want to feel like exhilaration when you’ve won a a Premiership if you’re not feeling one thing you can’t feel the other it’s like hot and cold on a tap like temperatures trying to control that my good mate D Buckley as he says um have some range yeah you
Know and I like that and I think about that a lot in my own life so you’re you’re at this point in France around 30 at the time yeah what’s the next step about 27 27 yeah next step uh I get in trouble for doing something quite not
Out of character but like just stupid like we had a big night got we me and a friend got um arrested for or he bought cocaine and I was with him and it’s quite a big deal over there like so yeah don’t do that over there and so yeah we
Were put in lock up and I think because there was so many because the people knew that there was me and him in there so many media cameras and it became such a big story that the jailers and stuff like who the [ __ ] are these guys are
They like gangsters or something like we both look pretty weird I’ve got like blonde blonde hair and he’s about 7 foot so he would have looked like strange cats but yeah we were in there spent a couple nights in there and that was sort of one of my rock bottoms where
I was like okay I’m done with that life like I really need to figure this out and for me to figure it out was I had to leave France I had to go somewhere where I could just focus on myself and rugby and that for me was s sharks up north of
England um was really where I did a lot of the deep deep work and and really yet began sticking to what I would say started sticking to the my word of who I was and what I was doing and it wasn’t so like repeating Cycles it was I was just building
Slowly tell me like you know it sounds like for for a huge portion of those really important years of your life your now wife has been there yeah by your side how do you feel about looking back on all of that and like talk to me about your relationship with
Her and obviously only share what you want to share but I just think I’m I’m so blessed to have the most amazing woman in my life that I’m excited to to marry put a ring on a finger make some babies with her very soon and so you
Know very blessed to have that in my world and I often think that you know for all of the we’ve only been together for 16 months but we’ve lived together from 2 weeks into our Rel Rel so you know we ourselves in the deep end and I
Love it a bit but I look at I look back on last year and mate I put her through some challenging months just because I was chasing this dream that just always felt like it was a little bit too far away from me to grab a hold of and you
Know put us under such Financial stress and it made life really challenging for a portion of time and it never never challenged our relationship never had a drift in the love never had a drift in connection but it just made our physical day today really hard and our mental day
Today and I think a lot of the time [ __ ] how didn’t she stop believing in me because she always believed in me she always backed me 100% And I wonder if you ask yourself a similar question many times man [ __ ] like I’ve known my like
Wife Bridget since I met her when I was 16 she was 15 so we’ve known each other like more than half our lives we been together on our journey like hasn’t always been well at all it hasn’t always been Rosie haven’t always been together there’s been separations there’s been blocks
I’ve lived here she’s lived there but she’s been the one constant person in my life who’s always like turned up for me and yeah man her belief there was times where I was like f i don’t deserve this at all but she yeah she kept me alive at times it’s pretty special isn’t
It wow it’s um that’s crazy 16 years what is it now yeah that’d be 17 years is no no far out you must look back now when you know being in the position you R and telling me before you got beautiful little property where you escape and you live life together you
Must look back and go man how good’s this how good’s this to be here right now well it’s even just again it’s beautiful that we’ve been so many different people it’s like it’s not like we were just the same people this whole time like there’s been versions of her
That have she’s had her issues and then she’s evolved and we’ve I think the one key thing is we’ve helped each other evolve consistently or we’ve kept each other accountable she kept me accountable in many ways and I kept her I think the beauty is as well like a lot
Of people can tend to get in have like maybe a fight or things aren’t going well with their partner and they just break up and then they find someone new and hey I’m evolving in this way and now she won’t come here with me so I’ll break up then I’ll start fresh with
Someone and there won’t be the same issues and so like for us I don’t know whether it was it was just meant to be but we’ve always just chosen each other like there’s been so many big blows I’ve made many many mistakes many things that you wouldn’t
Think someone could come back from but because we’re just so brutally honest with each other and we there’s such a deep deep love there like a very deep love you can grow through anything especially if you can continue to have that trust and that’s yeah one thing without conversations as you can imagine
I would I was quite a loose unit when I was younger so you can imagine what I was up to um but that’s mean with healed everything we’ve spoken through and even now we still have our issues of directions we want to go like I’ve again I’ve been quite caught in like a
Physical reality for the last couple months it only took me took me like last sort of two weeks to realize hang on just slow down in a bit like just come back slow down a little bit which then puts pressure on her in the relationship because if I’m giving my energy to
Everyone else I’m giving to the team because I want us to win I’m giving in this way I’m giving in that way I come home and I’m a shall of a person or my nervous system switched over and I’m depleted so then what version is she getting of
Me you know so it’s there’s compromises everywhere but at the end of the day like for me it comes back to like who was my who was my tribe and my tribe is very small and then it grows out it grows out it grows out but as long as
I’m feeding myself and my initial they’re the main people in my world who matter to me that I know I’m going to be looked after I’m be supported I have trust it’s so interesting you say this one of the biggest challenges for me the last couple years is from about 2020
Onwards I’ve always one of the things that I’ve never struggled with is having good mates around me and good mates in my life feel very blessed to say that because not everyone can right and you know I’ve always seemed to attract just really amazing people who are great human beings super supportive would
Stick through by you through thick and thin but I started to become very social in 2020 you know so like every morning I was at a run Club I was having three coffees a day if these people are going out to dinner I’m going with them if
They’re going for a walk I’m going with them and I was always so outwardly social and I remember my old man used to always say to me mate sometimes you just need to [ __ ] slow down you’re always having a million coffee catch UPS you’re with a thousand people you know and then
You behind the mic talking to someone just like preserve your energy and I used to think no you know I feed off this and then when I met S I immediately recognized because I knew straight away she was person I want to spend the rest of my life with and I immediately
Recognized all of a sudden my energy for all of that just wasn’t there cuz I just it didn’t it didn’t matter anymore like I had my close group yeah didn’t for sure yeah it’s like you got your close group of people about your tribe and you’re like okay now I’ve got to focus
On quality over quantity because if it’s quantity it’s not quality with the people that deserve my quality and one of the biggest challenges for me has been I feel incredibly guilty that I can’t give the time to everyone that once a time from me right [ __ ] I feel you it’s a powerful thing
Being a to say no I feel the the same way like I get that like I want to leave people all the time feeling better than what they are but you only have a certain amount of energy per day you only have like yeah like it’s such a
Conundrum at the end of the day the way it was explained to me was like you truly you just you have to serve yourself first and then what that looks like is there’s levels to like the people in in your relationships is like it’s a simple reality because if you go
Out there and you give someone else some energy and then you don’t have enough when you get home like is that fair to the person that you love most or who you have an agreement where you’re going to be the best version with her you’re not always going to be that for them
Obviously that’s what life is but yeah I feel you I’ve had that many times and I’ve burnt out many times because I’ve gone to that extra thing that I knew wasn’t right it didn’t resonate in me but I I’ve got even with my profile as
Well like I feel like if I’m not there they’re not going to have the same time I’ll be like if we’re having a party like you need me there to get it going so like if I’m not there [ __ ] what are they going to do like that’s my ego like
What are they going to do it’s going to be [ __ ] for everyone like what a joke of course it’s not but like that was part of me that was that’s part of like my makeup that feels that way I know it’s an illusion but it’s still then it’s
Like yeah it’s interesting it’s it’s so interesting man and I guess I’d be interested to see how you feel about this so you know as an athlete in particular and I think just generally as a I know there’s women that definitely feel this way but as a guy you really
Pride yourself on the way that people see you from the outside sometimes too much often too much as to how you’re Su succeeding in your field of choice right and so I look at a guy like Michael Jordan you look at a guy like Kobe you look at all these like
Athletes that are renowned for winning at all costs and they put on these pedestals and rightfully so because they’ve achieved incredible things in their sporting careers and you you see like Michael Jordan’s a great example I remember watching the last dance and this guy was just so relentless it was win at all
Cost no matter whether his team [ __ ] hated him no matter of whether his relationships were [ __ ] house outside of basketball basketball was his life but then I look at him now and I can’t help but feel for the guy and I know he doesn’t want my sympathy he doesn’t give
A [ __ ] about Brad dber from wenong but I look at the guy and I think mate you’ve got no real relationship with your kids like I think about all the fractured relationships of people who are really important to you in your life and I wonder how you feel about the
Conversation of balance yeah well I me I’ve watch that same documentary he’s so bloody inspiring what he could do I could never be that way as much as I see like rugby as one of my purposes like it’s just a game like I I wouldn’t I
Don’t want to do anyone any harm there’s times where I need to poke someone in the chest and be like bro what the [ __ ] are you doing out there you got to sort your [ __ ] out but it’s always done through love not just to make like I
Don’t so much care if I’m not the the greatest player in the world I’ve never cared so much about that I just wanted to go out there and do my art like hey ego does love to know I’m a good player and it has sued at times especially the
Last two years when it’s been like my name hasn’t been thrown in there and there’s other players where they’re talking about I’m like [ __ ] off I’m way better than that like that’s my ego sus in that way and it’s funny to watch my mind create the story of like of the poor
Me one narrative poor me like what the who are these guys [ __ ] them or the other Narrative of like okay [ __ ] I’m going to go out there and show them which is both two extremities then you got to match them together and what’s real and what’s actually what’s the reality of the
Situation um but yeah in terms of that that balance uh yeah again it’s such an important like what angle do you want to go down you know like how do you find it for yourself to be able to like has it been hard to accept that maybe you won’t be
The best rugby player in the country in the world in your team if you’re choosing to invest time and energy in other things that are really important to you too yeah that is definitely a question I’ve had like for me it’s just been a natural progression of picking up
Some other things as well don’t get me wrong I still have a deep belief like I know if I put all my energy just onto rugby again I could play for the wallabies again and I could get to this position but it’s almost like my soul’s yearning
For some more stuff now as well that doesn’t mean I’m not going to be the greatest version myself out on the field but there is times I having I’ve had to learn to say no so I don’t burn out like once now I’m back to playing I’m two
Weeks off so once I go back to playing like I go a lot more into my not into my shell but I’m like rugby becomes hair so everything that I do outside is very well measured and like look how hard hard it’s been for us to get on a conversation like I’ve got
My I walk in man like three months at a time I know where my breaks are coming I know when I can have a getaway like I still respond to stimulus in the morning hey do you go want to go get a coffee
Yep I do or hey do you want to go get lunch on Saturday yeah let me feel into that I’ll let you know but I have such a like well scheduled plan that I know where I’m going to get my breaks I know how to look after my body I know to get
The right amount of sleep it’s still the number one thing in my life is still in that period is one My Tribe and my growth and my wife and that and and then very closely under that is rugby and then all the rest of the stuff during season drops way
Down so I don’t really see too many of my friends or my brothers or stuff during rugby season I see a lot of my teammates and I see obviously a lot of like my family like who live at my home but that’s all it’s pretty much just
Rugby and that during season which is again like comes to so it’s a long way to come to that conversation the Super Rugby is 6 months wab is six months so that’s where I’m playing with at the moment it’s like do I want to put myself through that for another like all year
Round or do I want to just play Super and walk away from test footage because there is guys now who are as good as me in elements of the game who could take it Forward they’re young they’re hungry do I still think I’m better than them
Other areas yeah I do so that’s the the conflict to me is like am I willing to give that up and what does it look like to give that up I give up Wes I get more time to grow and do these things outside of rugby and and be a more I guess
Balanced human or do I keep chasing that dream and I can’t tell you right yet because I haven’t I haven’t sat with it for long enough I don’t even know how well I’m going to be playing let’s see does that sort of answer it yeah it does
Answer it man there something I was just getting up on my phone because I want to read it to you and see how you resonate with this but throughout the course of 2023 I was so frustrated at like you know I’ve been doing this for four years
Now right and um I’ve been pretty blessed get some bloody cracker guests on the Pod you being one of them had you know people who are just well respected in in their world all around the globe and I’m very lucky that I think a lot of
The time because of my story people are willing to invest a bit of their time in coming on the show and connecting and I’ve had some of the people in the Australian podcast space who are the best of the best that are so good at what they do that I look up to
And I’m learning from put their hand on my shoulder and say mate like you’ve got what it takes to be at the top of the pack here you know keep pushing and when you hear those compliments and you get it right CU you’re once that young guy
In your thing you get that like sense of energy that like I just have to keep going and it’s going to happen for me and even that term it’s going to happen for me my expectation which is you know expectation is the thief of Joy my
Expectation was I’m going to be in a place where I can earn a full-time living from sitting behind a microphone and being in front of the camera and sharing stor stories with cobers from all over o and the world right and just when it wasn’t happening for me when I
Was falling short of being able to put food on the T table mate I would have been lucky to put a bottle of [ __ ] water on the table a week from what I was earning from the Pod yeah it was so frustrating because I’m like you know
But all these people are telling me that I should be and that I’m good enough and that the opportunity is there and I remember seeing this quote pop up and just hit me like a ton of bricks it was like getting smacked between the eyes and it was the world as divided by
People who are privileged by being ordinary and those of us who are damned by our desire to be remarkable and I remember hearing that and feeling that and just thinking am I always going to feel like it’s not enough am I always going to feel like I’m damned by this this desire
To do something that is unbelievable and remarkable and I just felt like a little bit crushed by that because I resonated with it so highly and then I got to the end of the LA last year and I decided for the first time in four years to take a conscious break
From recording the podcast from releasing anything and just sit with what has been the last four years and figure out what I wanted from this year of my life and then I came to this incredibly freeing conclusion and maybe it’s something I’ve just made up in my
Head to feel better about at all I don’t know um everyone else out there can be the judge but I just thought what the [ __ ] remarkable what someone else telling me I’m remarkable like remarkable is I get to do this thing I love every
Week why do you want to be able to do this that would be my two qu I got two questions for you go sh so like why do you want so you want to be able to do this your podcast to go higher so you can make money to live your best version
Of your life so you can share your experiences and other people’s stories to help people that’s what I’m sort of picking up is your man you know the funny thing is I don’t want to make like I never started this to make money from it I started this because I mean like
Millions I mean like you want to be self- sustainable in this business doing what you love because this is what you love is communicating and sharing sharing knowledge yeah 100% I love storytelling and I love the idea of being able to connect with people and uplift people and inspire people to come
Out of the the [ __ ] tough [ __ ] that they’re facing and get the best out of their life and and I just love the power of story and its ability to do that and so as I sat and resonated on that I’m like I never had a contract with
Myself to make money from this in the first place it’s other other people can get in your head it’s not even what they say it’s how you felt when they said oh like you do like you should be doing you should be doing this but again like
That’s stealing your energy it’s you to be somewhere like the Divine knows you’re exactly where you’re meant to be this person like it’s such a yeah [ __ ] little conundrum about the other thing I would say to you if you do act as if you already have it
Live your life that you already have this abundance I feel like that’s where people get stuck when they’re trying to manifest or they’re trying to create is they’re like this is on my parameters and soon I’m going to get hair or soon I’m going to do that and when I have
This then I’ll be able to invest in that or when I’m at this level and I’ve connected to this person and done a podcast with them then I can reach out to the next level of people [ __ ] live it as if you already are it you already are exactly
That version of yourself that highest version decision you make and every like you have Bas it on you don’t need to change anything you just change your Consciousness and you’ll become it such beautiful advice it’s such beautiful advice because there’s this incredible clip that I seen just last week and it
Was um Chris will and Alex hosi and Chris was just sharing this thing that he read um you’ve already achieved the things that you told yourself would make you happy yeah right you know know true and like it’s it’s so bang on him and I had this realization over the break that
M I’m punching so far above my weight with the most beautiful and incredible person in the world in my corner who believes in me you know to no end I am the healthiest I’ve ever been like I’m running I’m lifting weights I’m living life M I’m the happiest Geer you’d meet
Day to day never don’t have a smile on my face you know and I’m like so why am I allowing this of what I’m supposed to be doing to to stop the joy yeah you know and it’s it’s just such a for me it’s been such a remarkable breakthrough in which I’m now
Back doing the job full time that I left to go on this journey to figure myself out very prodigal son of me you know ending up back you know understanding that I’m enough in the first place yeah exactly with then your intention for doing it for sure and I’m balancing it
All I’m loving life and so I love that I love having conversations with people like you who have been on the journey and like I can see that you’re genuinely in a [ __ ] great place in your life cuz you know you’re smiling we’re happy we’re having a good yarn so um that’s me
Going off the track a little bit there to to talk a bit of shop no and I appreciate the questions we we went bloody Uno reverse on it there didn’t we but mate one of the things that I’m I’m genuinely curious you know I I love
Talking to guys who are in in the I guess the veteran years of their career in any field to see you there’s a lot of things that go into being a rugby player it’s not just picking up the footy and you know throwing left and right and
Throwing a few gooes here and there it’s you know the training that goes into it putting some weight on the back moving around in the gym testing yourself do you still very much love that physical side of preparing and you know getting your body ready for the game as you did
When you started you ever did it looks so differently for me now though like I know again like how I told you before like my body just knows what it needs like it’s so much more intelligent than my mind yeah I’m an intellectual guy I’m quite well read and I can retain information
But my body is super computer so I listen to it it tells me what I I need to eat it tells me when I need to eat it tells me when I need to fast it tells me what weights I need to lift that day
Tells me what exercise so the F part of that difficult is to telling an snc guy who’s trained in this area look I get that but that’s not for me my body is very unique if I work too much that way I lose a bit of speed if I do too
Much speed then then I lose my power if I do too much power I lose a bit of flexibility like it’s about keeping like it’s so that’s the balance that I’m finding every day so every day I wake up I’m tuning into my body to be like what
Do I need and I am getting older like I don’t need anywhere near as much as I needed at 18 A lot of the stuff these guys do at training like I can do it but it’s not good for me to do it continuously because I’m just eating
Miles off the legs like I already have a good base because I eat cleanly I sleep well and I’m quite pure with what I take in so like I don’t feel I need to train as hard as often so for me it’s just tapping on little things don’t get me
Wrong I love a big 2hour session or a big heavy gym session every now and again or contact out there once a month with the guys but for me it’s all training for me and the way I train is all about efficiency on the Rugby field on Saturday nothing else so obviously
I’m trying I’m living healthy but even what I eat if I wasn’t playing rugby I wouldn’t eat this way I wouldn’t train this way I train specifically to make myself the best version of myself on Saturday which can look differently like that could sound strange to some people
Because they like to you know work the base the foundations work here I’m like no no I’m always hair I might dip down a little bit but I don’t like my goal is to be energetically efficient on a Saturday my shield and my body is strong
Enough to be able to tackle bigger man than myself but enough foot speed and my mind’s sharp for me to make decisions and crucial moments that’s what training is for me and it will change when I retire you know it’s funny I’m thinking as soon as you said that I’m thinking
About the snc guy going maybe got heavy squats today and you’re like May I’m feeling more bicep curs let me to a manate well there is a place for bicep curs too mate there’s always a place for bicep curs you got to have good grips but um yeah it is like
There’ll be the schedule up there and I’m like I get it for someone who doesn’t know their body or like actually have a plan like again I told you I have like a three- Monon plan of like doesn’t pull me out of the moment but I love
Having it on the side so I know that I’m always moving forward I’m always going up I’m always growing discipline’s an interesting thing right so discipline equals Freedom as um the great Joo willink would say you know you hear all these guys talk about I don’t know if you know Joo Navy
SEAL I’ve seen your um your little sort of questionable look then when I said it he’s got a podcast called the Jocko podcast Navy SEAL guy who’s just all about discipline ownership you’d like you’d honestly love his stuff he does some great interviews I’ve got an image
Of someone on my head I’ve seen shaved head built like a brick [ __ ] house yeah I think I’ve seen him gr hair like almost like a shaved but flat shaved yeah maybe maybe at a time yeah but he’s sort of more boldish these days we very like very like number one looks
Like he does it himself in the mirror kind of guy that looks like he eats house bricks husk yeah yeah I’ve seen him yeah his um you know he says discipline equals freedom and I’m a I’m a full believer in that and I recognized my own life that 2020 for me was the
Start of like really creating some discipline again in my life and I trained for my first marathon and the six years prior to that I trained like an absolute [ __ ] pancake like fluffy hours maybe couple sets in the gym twice a week not testing myself never pushing myself just unbelievably in the comfort
Zone all the time and in the space of four months to train for a marathon when your lungs are bleeding you got to be pretty [ __ ] disciplined or you’re not going to get there yeah you know so I was so on planned like nothing strayed
From the plan if the plan was to run 16ks I’ll run 17 because I got to Sharp got to be disciplined and it was so fruitful for me then I got to a point where I would run myself into the ground because I wouldn’t listen to my body
Because I had to be disciplined and so you know it’s a funny it’s a funny thing where you’ve got to be balanced to go all right I can be disciplined and I know I’m disciplined but my body today is telling me to chill the [ __ ] out or
The discipline’s going to be out the window tomorrow when I’m laying up for 3 days if you can determine when it’s your body and when it’s your mind telling you that’s the key I’ve found because discipline we create this discipline using our mind if I do this training I
Will get hair if I stick to this process this is the normal outcome of it but then I’m again that’s what I’m saying like I’ll wake up and I’m like actually that doesn’t serve my body or my Consciousness where I’m at to train like that today I actually need a down dat
But then I can pick it up somewhere else but that’s my body telling me that it’s not my mind being like Oh I’m tired like the ground if I feel it’s my mind being like a lot of them call my mind’s being a [ __ ] I’m like [ __ ] that’s when I’ve
Got to go real into it and do a big session to take control of it again and just conquer it and remind it who’s in charge but if it’s my body’s telling me like I get out of bed and I can feel like my nerves are tied and I’m
Like it’s almost just communicating to me like man you we’re going we’re doing too much at the moment here we need to we need to slow down you got to stop because that’s when the injuries come or that’s when burnout comes or that’s when your your relationships suffer because you don’t have the
Energy to yeah find that balance man I call it you know as anyone does I have a couple of those days where the that mind wants to be a little bit of a [ __ ] and wants me to not do the long run or the hard session I call it just establishing
Some mongr so every now and then I’ve just got to do something that absolutely rips in and the Mong of me comes out just to remind myself that yeah you don’t listen to the mind but you’ve got you do have to listen to the body yeah
And again it’s so such a it’s such a gentle that it takes time to know which one’s what which is it my mind controlling my body or is it my like again like that’s what I recommend to people if they sit with themselves long enough and like they get to know
Themselves deep enough they’ll know what’s what like one of my friends I used to train with he used to do Sunday sacrifice I couldn’t do it every week like it broke me too much he would do it every Sunday he’ carry a big [ __ ] log
Up and down the beach or he would go into the bush and just go for a run like he’ carry a big Stone Atlas or he would just do like a some crazy [ __ ] just to break his body exactly what you’re saying like the to just build that mongr
Yeah I love it I love it m more once a month and then it became once a three months and now it’s like oh yeah we’ll do that after footing yeah fair fair the last thing I kind of want to touch on M before I let you go and
Get back in your day is yeah you 13 minutes 13 we’ll keep we’ll keep this to five you know postc career I I know you’re you’re still very much enjoying your footy and and having a good time but postc career like what do you see changing in your life do you see
Yourself retreating to the property out with our Packers a little bit more and just enjoying that pace at one stage I did because again like we’ve got a little bit of land where we are now in Brisbane and then we bought some land over the Border in New South Wales and
Hinterland there um and I did see that as one I guess timeline for me another timeline would be finishing my career at the Reds and coaching another one would be going to Japan and experiencing the Japanese culture and playing rugby then maybe coaching another one would be leaving rugby all together um I’m
Studying at the moment well trying to study at the moment do an NBA quut so I’m putting like I’m just deling into different areas at the moment that uh that are calling to me there’s not so much a a mental plan of this is exactly what I’m going to do because in this
Period of my life too such a beautiful space where I’m between times so it’s like my Rugby career could finish in a year could finish in five years I’m not holding on to any I’m just seeing what’s coming for me and I do feel like I’m in
The best shape I’ve been in like I’ve really got some things right that I had probably been off-kilter for the last couple years and I’ve really just found a nice little sweet spot um in my body and in I guess in my reasons for playing the game
Still um so that’s been good but yeah I can’t I couldn’t tell exactly what I’m going to do because I’m that’s the beauty of me right now and what I’m experiencing what I’m exploring as I’m enjoying not knowing what the final outcome is going to be I still have
Processes in place and putting energy here feeling out that you know dropping a few breadcrumbs here connecting with this person just to see what actually lights me up and is inspiring me but the beauty of this moment as well is I can just really delve into my Rugby again
Especially from this week onwards and enjoy it and we’re playing well so I’m looking forward to getting out there with this with this team with these new coaches and expressing myself I love it brother I’m looking forward to watching I’d said that was the last thing but
Very last thing before I let you go for the I’m I’m certain there’s a couple of fellas gals anyone who’s watching this listening to this who is absolutely resonating and can see themselves in that lost period of your life in which you you know so beautifully described
And you know so open about for all of those people who feel like that they’re a little bit lost at the moment do you have just a couple words of wisdom or a little bit of advice or even just a a reference to something you’ve read or
Listen to or watch that you think would be really helpful Yeah the more I’ve reflected like you’re never actually lost you’re exactly where you’re meant to be at every moment it’s just you just shift your Consciousness like shift what you’re like what are you going after
What is lighting you up it’s a okay you may feel like you’re the glass half empty right now but it doesn’t take long could take you 10 minutes of breathing bit of gratitude to actually put into perspective like what’s happening in your world and then the one thing I
Always say is like get to know yourself just even if it’s 10 minutes a day it could be hard like I when I first started I’d do some breathing five minutes of breathing and lay down for 10 minutes I’d even set my alarm to be like
Because at that stage I’d get to plead and fall asleep by the end of it or I was like [ __ ] I don’t want to waste half an hour of my afternoon so I just commit 15 minutes and that’s how it started and then when I sat with myself a little
Bit more and you start to become friends with your mind you start to become like you see the world in a little bit of a different way and one thing I would suggest is explore some of these modalities like while you’re still learning and learning out how to ask
Yourself these deep questions of who am I and where is life going and what what is my purpose what am I hair for is like what is this place we’re living in things like human design I think that’s a great place to start I appreciate your
Time so much I’ve loved hearing um more in depth your story hearing about your experience thus far and M I love the way you finished that off there thanks for coming on been a pleasure cheers Bradley oh mate Big Year big Year you too man
Live it feel it you already are it I love it brother appreciate it say by
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Great chat lads