130. Lance Armstrong | Training with Dr. Ferrari, PTSD Therapy, Rebuilding a Life of Integrity

Lance Armstrong shares the unseen struggles in the cycling world, going from hero to zero in an instant, meeting and defeating cancer, and through it all, how he chose to rebuild a life of integrity and meaning.

5 years ago he devoted himself to a 5-day intensive experience at Onsite Nashville where he began to peel back the layers of his emotional pain; that for so long were covered with bandaid after bandaid. He emerged from this retreat with a revived understanding of himself and responsibility for the life he continues to choose.

Lance and I dive into…
➝ An exclusive look at his training protocol with Dr. Michele Ferrari
➝ Unpacking his PTSD at a 5-day intensive at Onsite Nashville
➝ Growing through the darkness of his past choices
➝ His vision with WEDŪ and Next Ventures
➝ How he maintains his physical and mental performance at 52
➝ And more!

Resources:
The Amazing Development of Men [ https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Development-Men-Expanded-2nd/dp/B00B2PID8S/ref=sr_1_4?crid=35HQ2IGUR7BG0&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zkGKjCp0ZpNtJ7eDTfrhTCXvluLE9709iqfjtFLCScI4rfG_TCN7eUFI_T-H6H2tGDjuzs9YGjgqfKC5-8kFugDq4eeP20rjHXdP1JZWE9rS7umchxT08OUCJLKORjg6BFXuMthacNKjl1E9RpzxEdM5BJ0OOVA4_Ds3jd8bEgBrtG9QldUW3jEdobEybGHmNc_M5KZGYPiiFnNHSN-OJuT22xyX3H-SHIIeXSTkVB4.ORt16yj0y2HtTr5P3f_2eYbVKXYL5UH9UwTtakczNUk&dib_tag=se&keywords=alison+armstrong&qid=1708561299&sprefix=alison+arm%2Caps%2C160&sr=8-4 ]
OnSite [ https://experienceonsite.com ]
Hoffman Institute [ https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org ]

Connect with Lance:
The Forward [ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-forward/id1125521492 ]
The Move [ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/themove/id1254370585 ]
WEDŪ [ https://wedu.team ]
Next Ventures [ https://www.nextventures.com ]

Connect with Cal:
Instagram [ https://www.instagram.com/cal.callahan/ ]
Facebook [ https://www.facebook.com/thegreatunlearn ]
YouTube [ https://www.youtube.com/c/thegreatunlearn/ ]
Website [ https://www.thegreatunlearn.com ]
Subscribe to the newsletter [ https://www.thegreatunlearn.com/newsletter ]

This show is produced by Soulfire Productions

We based everything on this the guy who oversaw all my training was Dr McKelly Ferrari who was hugely controversial very very polarizing but also brilliant the thing that’s commonly tested is what is your lactate threshold and it’s generally considered to be four mol four and higher is when you have to slow down

You could find a half mile 20% Hill and start running up it and you ultimately stop if you were sprinting why do you stop stop latic acid how do we stay below four as long as possible you didn’t love winning the tour as much as you did training for it and preparing

Love the process I mean I loved winning the tour but I loved the process and it’s because once you win it’s all over yeah then it’s got to go back to running the process again like I could look at my situation and say well that’s not

Fair it’s not fair that the world took me from hero to zero and all of my peers in America got a pass I could look at that say well that’s that’s not that’s not for me to say it is a lot easier naturally for me to look at Yan or me to

Look at pantani who’s now dead say well that wasn’t fair what you guys did to him the way you treated him and you gave passes that they destroyed him that then makes me mad well what do you care he lost endorsements or what do you care the headline said he’s a disgrace yeah

They did say all that and all that [ __ ] did happen but the consequences there’s a handful of guys that are dead how we feel now guys like that’s [ __ ] up I’m not letting this Happen [Applause] Every every guest gets a we call it an unlearned optimization kit right and just right here in the bo that’s it so Lind could you hand it to to Lance a great idea and it’s products that I use it’s products that I’ve invested in and there’s a book from Boyd in there as

Well his book you gave me one already gave you one so you get to gift that one to someone oh yeah so what do we got in there just kind of pick up some different things I’m just want to give give a quick shout out do my solo cast

Got to get my readers I do my solo cast I I’ll I’ll talk about these in depth but yeah pick up anything buddy just just [ __ ] you pick them up yeah just pick up super mush right mus is a great should try some of that some great mushroom upgraded iodine from upgraded

Yep quick silver got longevity Elite yeah buddy who doesn’t want longevity true Cal that’s a Troy that helps you like kind of chill out it’s a nice little Vibe okay your mouth turns a little orange but it’s fine it’s Save The Best For Last you got some feel

Free on the golf course that’s very prevalent amongst the group so genius those are some micro doing mushrooms okay excellent oh I love the tagline Next Level [ __ ] yeah buddy it’s right up your alley doesn’t like next level [ __ ] you got some oh mono vital that is a um

Sheila Jeet with you know the the thing I just gave you the um Quicksilver um Kinton it’s basically that seawater electrolyte with Sheila Jeet it’s an amazing thing I do it every morning a Boyd’s book Boyd’s book which is epic soon you know in the next six months my

Book will be accompanying him in there but for now it’s Boyds element element otherwise known as element we use a lot of element yep I that’s something I invested in I invested in that woo play there woo more play that’s a little something for you and misses bumping

Grind Hanky Panky getting busy lust and thrust hash more playay I love it so this is some of the I can say a lot of things some just some great products that I like to use but um and Lindsay will link to that in the show

Notes and there’s a whole cool box too whole page nice touch yeah Lindsay picked that out so there we go anyway so I thought it’d be kind of fun to start with that but I tell you I mean I know we just worked out at the end of the

Workout we been doing I I well I was sharing like what’s been happening for me and so this podcast i’ I’ve done a lot of podcasts right this is four years now I don’t remember being when was our when was our four years ago it released earlier this month end of January we

Recorded it in the late fall got it um When I Was preparing for the podcast it was interesting that I had these areas that I wanted to talk to you about and what was interesting is I realized that we’re very both very much at the same Crossroads not only we both

52 but you know there’s there’s love of golf that we both have and you know golf has played an important role in both of our lives lives and for you I know that was a really uh Safe Haven when your [ __ ] world fell apart um training and fitness

And I mean that’s we’ve been doing a lot of working out together it’s been awesome sucks sometimes because you know as I want to talk a little bit about lactic acids so people understand what buffering that means and why that is so [ __ ] superpower yeah um and I don’t

Do it uh nearly as bike yes and uh we’re not alone no no no it’s like the cold plunge no one [ __ ] likes it but it’s a necessary evil I believe but also like uh what we you know obviously both have podcasts and and and both orienting

Towards kind of a North star our own you know individual um and it’s exciting as things are moving with you building out what you’re doing and for me just like being has been really cool um and then investing I mean you and I have I invested in your first fund and then

We’ve done a few things together and we’ve looked at things together and it’s um yeah there’s just a lot of synergies at this time in our life and and as I said before we got on like this audio book by Allison Armstrong is a [ __ ] game

Changer uh it’s like in Rel it’s about men and we I’ll have you linked to it in the show notes cuz it is I no offense to Boyd I’ve given out Boyd’s book 300 plus times I love that book but there is simply no better thing that I’ve engaged in than this audio

Book oh God it’s listen to it on two times speed you be done an hour and 40 minutes and you will as a man as a man you will understand yourself way better and as a woman you will understand your man I’m telling you it is emotional it is

Cathartic put that the top of anyone to-do list so anyway and I also want to talk about a little bit about cycling but just h on the periphery I want to PE I want to understand what makes the tort France so hard com compared to other things and I know you haven’t competed

In the UFC or anything like that but just give people a context for what the why why is it so hard but anyway I [ __ ] love that you’re on today I’m stoked that we got a workout in yep um it’s the first time in a long time that I’ve worked out before

Episode so I’m fired up I couldn’t do an episode without working out really oh I would yeah I gotta I can’t do much of anything that’s important before working out I have to work out before you’ve just always been like that yeah it just sets it just sets the whole

Thing up for me personally did you go through a period you know 10 years ago when when [ __ ] hit the fan where you couldn’t even work out like you just went into like a shell or was that consistent the entire time the only no

No I did not I definitely did not no in fact I I went the other way I I threw myself into fitness and health and although I mean I wouldn’t say that um uh I lived the healthiest life I mean I enjoyed myself we had whatever it

Was whether you go to a show and stay out late and party or you have a dinner party or but you know’ be one thing if you did that 90% of the time yeah I mean I no I did now the only thing that I did

Do for many many years is just not ride which is not ride the bike not train on the bike which was but I ran a lot I swam um mentioned not that it’s necessarily workout picked up the game of golf um but yeah no I I I that was

The other option right there were two options for me was to was to just kind of give up and become a bum whether that’s lazy or addicted or uh careless Reckless not that you don’t have moments that are a little careless and Reckless oh for sure um but no I I uh because

With all my view was that with all of those things because but you know keep in mind I had I wasn’t the only guy in cycling that got destroyed um there were many but that was certainly the public perception that there was nobody else well certainly

There was there was nobody else in the US every you know everybody in the US um you know they took some some punches but they they got a pass but there there were the equivalent of me in other countries who didn’t and they and and sort of the second and third tier guys

Or their teammates also got passes but those top guys Jan ol Marco pontani Frank vandenbrook Jimenez and Spain you know guys like that you know they took a lot of they took a beating from the media and and and the fans and from the public and only one of them is alive Yan

Ol is the only one alive today and and the others overdosed and and died so um oh [ __ ] dude yeah so that was um that was the other option right but with that comes uh you know and I’ve seen it I’ve seen it with with Yan for example I mean

You um you lose any valuable friends you lose uh your wife you lose your children and then in the case of those others you lost they lost their lives and so you had that as an extreme and then you had my situation I was like okay that’s an

Option but I’m not doing that I’m also not going to curl up and cry and feel sorry for myself I mean yeah this isn’t ideal and this sucks and most of this is self-inflicted but [ __ ] this I’m going to figure this out I am like I’m I

Promise you I’m going to figure it and I don’t know know how long it will take but I’m not giving up and um you I’m certainly not going to go down that rabbit hole of of just destroying my life so I’m curious if if uh because I I see this idea of throwing

Yourself into it’s another addiction right which arguably way healthier than drugs and um whatever alcohol but it actually I believe it’s important for us too sometimes we have to numb ourselves because we’re not ready to process what the like our world just [ __ ] Came Crashing Down and we can’t start

Processing it on day one and so do you do you recall a time over the past 10 years where it was like the switch got flipped and you’re like okay like I’m ready to like I’m ready I’ve got some tools now that I can actually start to move through this

Yeah um look it’s been uh uh it’s it’s been just over 11 years since I did the Oprah interview so what we always the world I think sort of Abed that is the MH I mean that was the day right the day after I should say where

You know I went from hero to zero overnight and so um a lot of people applauded that a lot of people thought that was funny a lot of people thought that I deserve that and there then and and a lot of that’s right I didn’t think

It was funny but I certainly deserved it um but you can’t go through that and all of that that that comes with it um so going from hero to zero just personally is is awful uh it has an impact I had three older children who were in middle school as a as your

Parent you know how you know how rough middle middle school can be especially for girls it’s terrible um there was a mile long list of lawsuits uh income went from you know some exorbitant amount to zero so not only does income go down but and you had

The $100 million law suit but then you had then you had that didn’t happen actually then oh it didn’t no that happened later oh sweet yeah they saved that one for last y now I had to settle all the other lawsuits uh and then that one came um we can talk about that

That’s a that was a crazy case but nonetheless uh turned out okay um if well again we can talk about it but you can’t go through all of these things um without suffering PTSD so I think we as a society hear about PTSD and we associate that with

People that have been at War and have lost comrades and have seen death and have killed people right I mean even if you hadn’t seen one of your mates die I’m not sure that I could kill somebody and ever live a normal life again right

But that you go into that game with one job and if somebody’s stand in there you have to shoot that would destroy me right and so the PTSD is not exclusive to soldiers right it’s and and certainly not exclusive to me it it um uh sexual assault is another situation where a

Young female would certainly have PTSD and so you it it where we were going with this was so if OA was 11 years ago I sort of just tried to uh live life and focus on my children and and my wife and and and just Band-Aid things all around just put just

They were just Band-Aids and whether that’s sort of couch therapy once a month or once every two weeks those are Band-Aids mhm so it wasn’t until about 5 years ago where I said okay the Band-Aids aren’t working and I need something different and deeper and

That’s when I decid I went to a place in Tennessee called onsite I don’t know if you’re familiar with onsite it’s amazing place it’s it’s fairly well known but it’s uh and it’s very private uh but super intensive and I’ve had some friends here from Austin

And some of which you know that had gone there and I just said I’m you know I got to go in right so you go um for instead of so imagine couch therapy as we call it these Band-Aids is you know so sit on that couch for an

Hour once or twice a month onsite is 5 days all alone oneon-one 10 hours a day oh my God and no obviously no distraction no devices um but intensive work right and so I I did that and I and I’ve you know when I first went and did it um I was nervous

About it and didn’t know what I was getting into ended up loving it now I go all the time like if you said to me right now dude we’re going to wrap this up and we’re going to fly to Nashville and you’re going to start a 5 day at

On-site or something very similar I would [ __ ] get up and Sprint to the airport wow yeah um but all of that is you know you have to address trauma right there’s multiple ways to go about that you we did it through there’s a lot of tricks and um tactics that they real

Therapist right so just to go back to the Band-Aid thing so sitting on that couch those are Band-Aids this is surgery so if you want to go in and surgically repair something you go to a place like onsite you know and and even and I don’t think

I’m crossing the line you know Anna did Hoffman for example I’ve heard of that yeah Hoffman very well known um those are those are surgical interventions mhm for any of them to work you have to totally surrender and you know a lot of people sort of get guilted or shamed or forced

To go to these interventions they won’t work if if you don’t voluntarily go and say that’s it I’m [ __ ] giving it up I’m giving everything right and it won’t work right so um maybe it just the world was waiting for a time for me to say okay

Out now now’s your time but I loved it I loved it and addressing you know and you know I was whatever trauma you’re thinking about there’s a lot more you can think about some episode in your life wow that was really traumatic you go spend five

Days and 10 hours a day and I’d do it for two weeks frankly but you’re going to start uncovering other right you do it we did it through a really as a as a written or almost as a draw drawing exercise on a on a big circle and they

Call a trauma egg so you just start layering anything you can think of in your life that was traumatic right it doesn’t matter right so you’re just I’m I’m guessing you’re just surprised at what was coming up oh you just layer them on right you just it’s a big like

Having no idea that that was in there and it can be anything and then you start to you go through all those and obviously mine you can’t big one is just straight up PTSD damn I know right well when I I think back about when I met you probably

I don’t know seven or eight years ago we played golf with a with a mutual friend of ours and uh we’ll talk about that later yeah well he’ll get mentioned later but I just know how much he loves getting his name mentioned so I just want to hold off on mentioning it

College wanted to bust his BS a little bit he loves it when we talk about but we uh and then we did the NAD together five plus years ago also traumatic and then you then yeah you didn’t you didn’t love that I didn’t either but I did it a number of

Times you came on the podcast but I’ve noticed you as I was kind of prepping for the the podcast I was like God there’s just you’re you’re I’ve seen it I’ve noticed shift in you a noticeable shift there’s like a sense of ease with you that I I didn’t maybe recognize before

Or maybe wasn’t there before but we’ve played a lot of golf together we’ve worked out a lot we were down in you know for the holidays down in Cabo you know our families were there and you know it’s funny you on the golf course you’ll shoot your mouth off

And be bombastic but you can also be humbled you know and and I I don’t know when we first met years ago if that if you had that side to you yeah I mean well that’s a lot happens in seven years but I I I credit the process of again whatever it

Is because I have been to onsite several times but I’ve also done similar interventions or sever several other surgical sure uh missions um but yeah yeah look I mean being bombastic on the golf course I love that look I’m an athlete right athletes talk [ __ ] doesn’t

Matter who you are and if you don’t talk [ __ ] you’re not any good you’re just not the key is is can you take it right if it gets flipped right that’s the worst is when gets all upset like wait a minute you’re just well I’ve and I think that’s

A great point and one of the things I thought about was again I don’t mind if anybody gives me I’ve seen I’ve seen you play like [ __ ] and me play really well and I’ve seen the reverse and I recently yes very recently but I was really impressed with

You were getting your ass kicked and it there was no like bravado ego whatever you’re just like I [ __ ] suck right now you just owned it but you know what I mean again like I I think you’re leaving you’re leaving out one very important part of it is that you know

There’s all and not to you know not to talk about money or make it about money but I wouldn’t play the game as religiously as I do if there wasn’t a little action on the line yeah yeah and golf we call it action and um I will uh

I don’t a pretty much play for anything but um don’t go out there if that’s going to make or break your day like that’s so I don’t care about if you lose a few hundred bucks or whatever whatever the number is if you can’t go out there

With the with the the the attitude that you have gambling money then don’t go right so don’t and if you play like [ __ ] well you got beat it’s a sport yes right and whether it’s a one-on-one sport or it’s a team sport you lost the game so

[ __ ] it like go home go to bed and wake up and battle again that’s I have no problem with that no I know and but it’s but some people can’t right no and I know and they just take themselves so seriously and it’s hard to be around and

I think that’s what’s great about our group and we do we have an awesome group you know we have Brendan [ __ ] I’m so glad that I connected you and Ron I mean what a beauty he is huh and now you’ve been to the Mothership which going through a hard time we need

Yeah he is and so we’re definitely been sending him our love and support and for those who don’t know he just lost his mother and so he was really close with her and his I was really uh moved by he would always talk about her in his act

I’ve seen him 15 20 times he always mentions his mother and he always just had such an adoration for her and spoke lovingly and would even you know we were supposed to to go to kill Tony for my son’s birthday just turned 21 he wanted

To go to kill Tony so Jake and I went and Ron and jeie were going to meet us there and he couldn’t come he’s like I’m going to stay with my mother tonight jeie will be there with a friend and it’s like yeah imagine now when he talks

About it like how cool is that amazing like in you don’t expect that from no and I just reminded him that I was like dude like you inspire me to make to want me to be a better son the way you know he shows up he’s a you know for all his

Comedy and all that he’s such a sweet man and grateful that he’s part of our our community totally um but what has it been like they’re shifting from ultra competitive obviously top of thee World cyclist to playing a sport like golf where you self admittedly not most not

Ultra coordinated it’s it’s not an easy sport necessarily you know you’re a nine I’m not coordinated and I you know years of cycling are just uh cycling is a pretty safe sport you don’t get unless you crash right if you crash you can break bones buddy I’ve seen so many guys

Who are like this how how did you avoid that think I mean that’s that’s you spend so many years just hunched over so terrible for the hips terrible for the low back well guess what are two really good things for the game of golf your

Hips and your low back so it mine are a little bit locked in but you figured out but I I don’t know even when I raced I would I grew up swimming so I and I grew up doing a lot of obviously a lot of

Cycling but I did swam and I ran and I would still do those things and I still do today you know that’s that’s swimming [ __ ] if the world said dude all right you imagine if somebody in the world just made you make a decision like this

But if they said you can only do one sport for the rest of your life it would not be cycling it would be swimming swimming is my favorite go-to exercise I love it how often you doing in a week generally I on a good week it’s three or

Four days a week you work out every day every day what do your kind of down days like recovery days look like I mean you’re not like what we just did right here today you don’t do that every day do you that wasn’t that hard was it

Hard was short it was short but it was a ball kicker no um this is revisionist history cuz I saw you not 30 minutes ago huffing and puffing like that was a bit Cy it was it was it was short but yeah no I would I I

Mean to me I actually I can go swim with the team and feel like that’s a bit of a recovery day there’s no impact yeah that’s what I mean so swimming can be get a little aerobic extra depends on the sets that that the coach lays out but you

Know um even bike rides I mean if I went for a 90minut here in Austin if you went for a 90-minute bike ride it’s pretty chill where where would you go around here I don’t know it’s of course you never go on 360 do you never okay no no

I I don’t I don’t I avoid I mean I moved here in 1989 so there was there was I mean if for every minute on 360 today there’s 100 cars there were 10 or maybe five in 1989 360 was like when they built the whatever Loop 360 people like why would

You build that way like who’s when they put that bridge in which was just before I came they were like and it’s a great story I mean Anne Richards found that she saw that bridge in in a trip of hers in Europe and she said I want that

Bridge no [ __ ] and so that’s why that bridge is there but you could go out there you could ride down the middle of the road wow baves baves was the same baves had the same Lanes had a big shoulder no cars I drove out here I mean

I took baves to get out like where the [ __ ] are all these people going shouldn’t they be going the other way like town is behind me yeah no no there’s like stuff there’s stuff out here now you know we’ve got some infrastructure there’s a great bike lane

Out east that you can get on that goes for seven or eight miles I went with college on that years ago yeah it’s a it’s a dedicated bike and walk and run lane or path there’s no cars so I get nervous around cars yeah understandable all right so you do a

Little bit of cycling swimming what we just did for people who don’t know we did like a every minute on the minute so I picked four movements we did 20 seconds on the assault bike at 95% effort did 12 ball over shoulder with 60 lbs we did some goblet squats with 20

And 24 kilos and then we did 15 15 Arnold oppresses with 20 pound dumbbells and just did seven rounds of that and I mean by the by the last couple rounds it was like 10 seconds for remain son of a [ __ ] yeah you’re like whoa but I like

So so for me I love that type of workout but dude again like there it’s been a long time since I’ve really embraced that like I would go on the pelaton because it was kind of easy God I know buddy but I still use it I’ll get on the

Pelaton and do like a 20 minute kind of hard bike and then I’ll do 20 minute weights and it’s like a great 40 minute workout cuz I want to my my intention now is to to to sweat every day and there was a time I used to

Do that but it was with a lot of rigidity and it was really intense and it was all consuming that doesn’t work for me it certainly doesn’t work for my family right so if I can get out there and and you’re older I mean you you

Don’t want to get I mean we can be out is if you’re not I mean I know for me I mean it doesn’t take much for just something a neck low back well not only that you’re like adrenals and your hormones and so you know thought about

That I’m more worried about getting hurt yeah no not I mean not as they say in uh South Africa touch wood cork but I guess cork is a tree so that’s technically touch wood I’m not worried about um injury so much but but I am worried about going too hard and knocking the

Hormones down now I do hormone replacement therapy so like I’m not that concerned with it but it’s felt good to get out there and put in like an honest effort every day and so yesterday you gave me some of your go Ruck gear and I did that [ __ ] threemile Loop and it I

Don’t know it was 40 minute little walk with a little bit of elevation and terrible it was shitty hard it’s hard breathing wasn’t great that I could see where the backpack would have been worse on my shoulders but I felt the pressure on my should is like maybe that’s

Building the traps up a little bit I think apparent you know as they say there’s some adaptation there yeah it’s you got you have to be consistent I I haven’t gotten to that point where it’s like oh yeah this is but man it what did

You do 30 or 40 pounds I did 30 yeah that’s I mean the backpack was 40 but it was all in the back and I don’t want to do that so first first time I did it was with so AA does it all the time and of

Course I do a bunch of stuff with him but he’s like why don’t you this is so crazy we just moved to Austin back to Austin and he was like come over for a Ruck I was like all right and I was fit like I spent the summer getting super

Fit I’m like [ __ ] it I’ll do it and it’s 104 degrees outside in the middle of the day 50 lb backpacks not the best P backpacks so so that backpack that you gave me plus 10 lb holy [ __ ] 20 you had 30 no no no the I thought you said the

Backpack was 40 I had the vest on that was 30 right but he when I did it for the first time with him he gave me a backpack with 50 pounds of and I was like what is thank God Liz was out shooting it I started pulling these you know they’re different weights

Inside come over here just you could get pictures but I’m taking some of this [ __ ] out like this is it was brutal yeah brutal 104 degrees we went for an hour oh [ __ ] yeah I had great weather yesterday I went for 40 minutes and 30 pounds uh but yeah like I again it’s

Like and then sprinkling a little bit of yoga for me that feels like a nice like array of you know kind of variance now you also I’d love for you to talk about with the the little acid yeah and how you those boys that’s a new

Thing so that’s uh I built this gym at the house which you haven’t seen yet but it’s we got great right we’ve got all the um Rogue did an amazing job building it out for me and then the team at concept 2 sent me all the stuff so I’ve got the ski ERG

The rower and the bik ERG the Acid Bath which you know I I just kind of got in this gear so um it does technically it’s not an acid bath for you cuz you buffer all your this one you’re getting this one you’re full of lactic acid so Greg

From concept 2 says you should try the Acid Bath like I don’t know that sounds kind of cool like what is it like I by the way I will [ __ ] try I prefer a different type of acid bath I will I will try anything and so he so will I so

He says 500 met on the ski ERG 500 meters on the rower th meters on the bike ER as fast as you can go so when you you go from one machine to the other if you want to have a good time you have to get to the next machine as fast as

Possible a lot of people think oh you break it up you don’t break it up it’s one test and so uh first time I did it I was I was it’s just terrible like you get it’s so funny too the first time I did it I was because the bike is last

I’m like please just get me to the bike yeah yeah because I that’s my place yeah I got on the bike I couldn’t even I was like pedaling squares I’m like get me off this [ __ ] bike like I was mortified and so then yeah we did one

The other day over at on it with these young punks who were super sweet but it’s fun you know when you get a little older it’s fun yeah that’s the way I you know a YouTuber came yeah YouTuber you mind if I mic you up I said

Buddy this is a [ __ ] workout we’re not making YouTube videos you can you can do whatever you want to do I’m here to work out so no like keep your camera guy away all that’s fine but I’m not getting miked up I’m not youtubing or whatever the [ __ ]

You call it true story and he was like No And I was like definitely not but he’s like 29 and then there’s some guys in there early 30s and then I’m 52 and so they were they didn’t want to tell me you’re like I’m good I got

Enough exposure with then they yeah then they said we’re going to do an acid bath at the end oh boy and so they wanted to go in order of age so the young YouTuber went first he did dropped to 520 and then this badass kid who does a bunch of the high rocks

Races which I think is a really cool new series oh you telling me about that yeah I think it’s cool I I personally am interested in that because explain that real briefly I it’s well I don’t I’ve never done one I’ve only kind of I follow them on Instagram I’ve looked at

Some of the videos um it’s 881 kilometer runs okay which is a lot like you know Spartan you don’t run that much and tough mutter you don’t run that much and Crossfit you don’t run that much but you know for a a race or a competition 8

Kilometers it’s five miles yeah that’s a that’s a lot of running you have to you can’t be a shitty Runner and be good and then in between every kilometer it’s interspersed with and I don’t know exactly but it’s probably a um it’s probably a kilometer on the ski there’s

The road there’s the sled P there’s a sled pull like a a kilometer of that no well I don’t I don’t know okay got but it gets just gets broken up and that’s anyways this kid is a highly competitive High rock guy and I’m like okay well

That’s that’s gonna be hard to beat yeah and then Juan who’s who’s been I think he’s the best trainer at on it I love Juan who’s crazy fit and he’s done a bunch of acid baths I think he’s gone 503 I did 516 the first time I did it

[ __ ] and uh so YouTuber goes he busts a 520 and then the hro kid goes and gets a 510 I’m like o Juan goes and gets 8.8 they’re all like all right you know your turn I’m like you [ __ ] so at this point do you

Have a like a goal which you want to hit the urg get off the urg at this number row this and then just go I’d only done one before so I know it’s it’s five minutes so you bury yourself in the first 30 45 seconds you’re done that’s right so I

Done the only one I had done I went too hard on the skier so I was like all right I’ll I’ll just start and you can see the pace right the machines are all set up but you see what your pace is per

500 yep and so I was I started I mean I was skiing at 135 the I’m very well suited for the for the row workk for whatever I mean I think there’s a you are really yeah there’s a lot of crossover with cycling and Rowing okay low you know legs low

Back um a lot of people think you’re just like sitting there well I thought like having a longer levers too like being a taller guy if you were 65 but I have long we can get into why you wanted to talk about lactic acid and cycling

You can also talk about I mean my to totally nerd out and we’ll get back to the Acid Bath but relative to my height right so my femur length I have long legs and a short torso my femur length is way longer than I should be for a

Person who’s 5’10 so that’s the lever it doesn’t matter how tall you are this is the lever oh got it right so you have the lever of a 62 guy or some secret hidden strength um and and so any so then I I like man these are some sick

Times like I haven’t gone this fast and uh and also those machines get used more on it right the ones in my house are new they’re smooth like you rip these things you’re like okay yeah there’s a lot of snap oh these guys are going anyways

Long story short I go 5 8.2 so I went by you beat him by 6 you son of a [ __ ] no way how [ __ ] pumped are you I was so pumped was like dude that was crazy dude so I was I started like 135 on the 135

140 on the ski I was 135 140 on the row and then I was always I was watching these guys as they go so on the bike I could see their time and I just destroyed him on the yeah I came that was but Juan was like dude the whole

[ __ ] gym stopped when you like I wasn’t paying attention I was just like you can’t right I was like sing Focus [ __ ] kill these kids like that’s all I thought about God he was like dude the whole gym stopped and I was like oh that’s kind of

Cool yeah that’s a special gear that you have that a handful of people do right I mean like to get to the level that you got to I can’t get that I’m then want to like again put limitations on myself but I haven’t had enough rep set that I got

To kill you you know just it’s just not there so it’s interesting that it has to feel good to be able to exercise it somewhere where you have some competency because in golf you can want to [ __ ] kill but that’s you it doesn’t translate because you don’t have the it’s not

Within your control where that there is a a place that’s maybe you know maybe Scotty sheffler can do that or I don’t know but well tiger right back in the day he could yeah he could create whatever he wanted that’s not we are never going to feel that no but

It’s got to feel good to be able to touch that going into that workout that that you had no idea that that you were going to summon that part of you but there’s I just have that in me and it’s it’s most they’re let’s just say yeah

Most of the time is a good thing it’s not always a good thing I there’s times where you can be Uber competitive that that you just shouldn’t be right it’s time to lay down and and and let things play out one funny story was uh this is going back many years ago but

We were I love the game of kickball do you like kickball yeah I mean I played it quite a while but it’s the greatest it’s one of the greatest games great like I would no for real like for my 50th I’m not bullshitting like who doesn’t like kickball okay well I love

It and so um and I think it’s did you not get picked for kick you did not get picked for kickball when you kid that doesn’t matter I’m just saying you didn’t right this has a this story has a you’re like kind of like those Tech

Nerds who never got the girls and they this unicorn and now they’re getting all the girls so back then anyway and it’s best when you just have a large group of friends we we went to Cabo for my 50th oh [ __ ] 16 of us so you could you know

You could have a serious kickball game and we did it at the field there in elado so that’s like real kickball anyways we were playing in the backyard when Anna was pregnant with Max and we didn’t have a kickball so we were playing with like a small Swiss

Ball like from the gym yeah and it was you know it’s easy to kick and easy to catch and yeah pretty rubbery and yeah um and she’s she’s probably seven months pregnant so she’s pregnant and she’s on the other team and she gets on base and do another pitch or whatever

You want to call it and I see she goes to Steel second and I have the ball you’re like not on my watch [ __ ] and something took over and you know in kickball if you all you got to do is Peg them out and I had

It the something came over me this is a true story like she still holds it over oh I believe it a th% and I was like they’re stealing second I grabbed that [ __ ] ball and I threw it as hard as I could just totally glitched out tweaked out

And hit her right in the stomach and all my older kids were there and there were other people in there they were like whoa and she she was like what the [ __ ] are you doing she legit said like what what did you just do and I was like I don’t know

Like I don’t know you were stealing I couldn’t help myself this is a true story you’re just so red I just I was you all I saw was somebody stealing maybe some fatty was trying to steal second not I’m not letting that happen I and I you know I got her out

But of course she did good news oh that’s the good news got up how’s Max better news is Max is a perfectly healthy wonderful kid oh dude we yeah it was she can tell you the story it was it was not it was not a good look mine was a

Little more incidental but a little bit of like lack of awareness we were in Italy uh Jake was I don’t know two and a half years old Payton was pregnant with Bowen I don’t know it was she was Pro pretty early maybe three months pregnant we were playing soccer

We had this kind of villa that we rented we were playing soccer and I just went to booted into into the goal and she was there and I hit her right in the gut yeah and it was like I felt so terrible you should that’s worse soccer Ball’s a lot harder

You’re actually kicking it not yeah but I wasn’t trying to kick her with it I was trying to score a goal and I just misfired you no I tried intentionally intentionally hit your pregnant wife not my finest I felt terrible everybody lived everybody’s healthy it toughened him up a little bit

Well talk a little bit about the whole lactic acid thing too because that is something that I remember from my CrossFit days that was like a there are ways to improve your buffering well you can train you can train it train lactic acid right you can and that

Used to be the [ __ ] worst workouts but I loved that stuff I love depends how you go about we we had a different approach and you know of course most people know my story and not everybody but we had as complicated as the story was and there was certainly medicine

Involved um that was not as yeah I mean that was the way the game was played but the guy uh who oversaw all of my training was was Dr McKelly Ferrari who was hugely controversial very very polarizing but also brilliant absolutely brilliant um can you can you unpack that a little bit

Just [ __ ] just from an exercise physiology standpoint yeah so yes as an MD could help navigate certain things but when it came to training and preparation like if you said the goal is 3 weeks in July like how you build to that just a Sant absolutely best one of

The best that ever lived take and and if we all raised on bread and water he still would be one of the best that ever lived that’s um so um his view on how do you sort of because with lactic acid you have what we everybody has and a thing that’s commonly tested

Is what is your lactate threshold yes so your lactate thresh threshold training yeah is generally considered to be and you do it with a finger prick you know either in the gym or the side of the road or in the lab doesn’t matter and it’s generally considered to be four

Milles right so beyond four four and higher is when you start to SL you have to slow down right because lactic acid is accumulating it would be like getting on an assault bike and going as hard as you could the first 5 Seconds like okay I

Got it the next five you’re like I’m slowing down after that you really if you just kept going you would stop yep why do you stop you stop because of lactic acid that’s what’s stopping you you could do it you could find a half mile 20% Hill and start running up it

Right you would ultimately stop if you were sprinting so that’s all lactic acid right so the the goal for us at least was how do we stay below four as long as possible now you’re going to have these spikes where you above four but the key

Is to stay below so that you can go forever and also um just moderate the lactic acid and so when you go above four the idea is like to be able to bring it back down below four but there’s been different views on How to Train okay the

The lactate threshold right so the way he always described it which made the most sense to me was it just as if you imagine that this is four millim right this is for those that are listening I just have my hand horizontal right so if

If this is four milles and you want to get your threshold up right how do you what’s the best way to do it there are folks that think you should train above threshold so that that will get that will get the threshold up view was train

Right below his view was that if you trained above it you would push it down whereas if you train just below it you just keep bumping it up that was his VI inter yeah um so we did not we were above the threshold on the assault bike

Morning for example yeah but we did all of our training because you get you get you get you race 50 days a year you are going to be above his view was that those are uncontrollable you’re at the the mercy of 200 other guys in the race and

There’s times you’re going to be above threshold but when you’re training alone and we can control the workout and the environment and whatever we’re going to train below threshold now it might take a training days for five six seven eight hours but always below threshold we never did specific stuff above

Ever and when we would test like even he with with all of his experience you know he’d stand on the side of the road with this this little machine that would test my lactate he’s like me even if I went above I could I was you know I don’t

Think I ever saw more than seven moles you’d see guys at the end of a because we would test it we would test the lactate in the middle of sort of a power to weight test so we would start just to keep getting nerdier um we had a kilometer section of

Road that climbed 100 meters so that what does that mean that means that’s a 10% climb for 1 kilometer and this is we based everything on this everything whether that’s prescribed training whether that’s uh what kind of shape you’re in in March or April all the way to to late

June to the final test where it’s like okay you can now win the Tour difference so on this 1 kilm section of road with a 10% grade which is 100 met we would start at 225 Watts so all of our training was based on Watts so first

Kilometer and and you’re staring at your computer that has your Watts keep it at 225 then you pedal back down 250 back down you just keep doing it and doing he’s testing lactate every time time you come yep and uh you know I mean at the end I mean some of those

Years I was doing the best one I ever did was 496 Watts um so you got to do a lot of them 225 250 what’s the rest period in between just when you pedal just when you Coast down oh [ __ ] what yeah but once you but but but if you can and you

Know when I did 496 Watts for that test I was less than four so that’s so theoretically you should be able to do that for 30 to 40 minutes my God the next how long does that take that trip up uh I should remember these it it

Obviously the first ones take a long time of course right and you hardly have enough gear on the bike it’s 10% steep yeah if you were on a mountain bike you could just Cruise in an easy gear but you’re trying intentionally to go so slow and just let this just build into

This test um but so if you I mean is it a two-minute effort is it a five- minute effort I don’t uh well so it’s it’s it’s a it’s a it goes from five to three yeah if I remember no it’s got to be more than it gets doesn’t get cut in half

Because your Watts go from 225 to five almost 500 you should remember all this stuff but but but it gets down Andes once you determine whatever that threshold is so again just using four milles then the next day we would go out and find a 30 minute climb say can you

Ride this climb for 496 Watts which I could do so once you do that then you say you know that nobody else in the and again this is power to wait so there’s two parts of the test to stand on the scale in the morning yep and you have to

Go do the test right you could do 500 watts but if you weighed uh you know if you weigh 225 lbs you’re not going to win the Tour to France oh but if you weighed 165 pounds so it’s a it’s a it’s a ratio so that’s power to weight we

Would always use the magic number of seven if you were seven watts per kilo nobody could beat me now crash and get sick whatever um but if I was 7 watts per kilo which I was every time what was the best you what was the best that

Right around seven I mean there were years I was less I mean even 68 2003 I wasn’t that good that’s good enough to win yeah but all about lactate but it wasn’t as if you did like those tests that I would do in in uh

Like 496 and it was four milles he never said okay go do another one uh at 525 to see like that’s pointless like all you care about is your threshold yeah this is a dynamic 6-hour race that you do for 20 days in a row like the key is to be

As strong as you can at that threshold and know that if you have to go above it you got to go above it but then how do you you know some people are just more gifted and the lactate clears quicker so how quickly can you get below four

MMS so obviously the the hills is where you made your hay how were you in the time trials time trials as as well Y and so that translates same thing yes harder to do that test because it’s well I should say it’s easier to do that test

When it’s a 10% gradient I don’t know if that’s it’s probably a lot to do with psychology it’s just easier to grind when you’re like where’s a flat road yeah it’s hard to get the Watts going ah right because up the hill you actually have that more resistance that’s a weird thing gravity

Yeah can you have you thought like how do you compare training for that and I’ve actually heard heard you on Bill Maher talk about how you didn’t love winning the tour as much as you did training for it and preparing for love the process yeah I mean I loved winning the

Tour just because I would have hated to lose the tour um but I loved the process and it’s because once it’s once you win it’s all over yeah then it’s then it’s then you got to go back to run in the process again but I don’t know it wasn’t it’s a weird

Thing it’s probably something I need to keep grinding on like why would it why even today when I think about it like yeah that was cool winning but if I would have lost like if on a scale of 1 to 10 winning was a two losing would

Have been a negative2 200 like it’s that’s there’s no balance in that yes and I’m curious like are there other parts of your life where you have a similar philosophy where you’re deeply engaged and enjoy the process versus the outcome investing for instance whether it’s with next Ventures or personal

Stuff I like those outcomes it’s not like well you like the winning the tour outcome as well but like where does the process sit with that CU what I’ll share with just my own experience is when investing started to shift for me is when when I actually loved the process because

You’re in the process for a much longer time than the right the outcome is in a moment and it’s it’s all done and I started to really appreciate the people that I was getting in business with and the people I was supporting whether it was through private Equity investing or whatever but

Just love loving that Journey whether it’s feel free or you know my body Colin here in Austin with jail Blaster I just love the team I love the process I love the journey and it be it allowed me to become a lot more Discerning about who I

Partner with who I give my energy and my money to because it is a real relationship and what do you got to do with people for so long though I I mean I’ve you know I’ve been investing for 30 [ __ ] years and the early years were a

Lot of great ideas and not really paying enough attention to who I was I was always outcome driven you know and I think when I was trading it’s all about the outcome on some level right just like the tour like it’s all about how much money did you

Make but when I was trading my best I was just in flow of the [ __ ] process and I loved it and the numbers took care of themselves and so I’m just curious like I I I love the fact that it winning was cool but you you it was nothing

Compared to the process and I think there’s a lot of [ __ ] great medicine in that to where else in your life are you showing up that way there’s other parts too though and and I probably I think I mentioned it on Bill show like I don’t like look some people like people

It’s G to sound bad some people like people or some people like to be around people I you know the what was process you know training out there all alone like in these [ __ ] remote roads in the back country of I lived in Nice France so the when you get if you go

Inland from nice man there there is nothing this is the best bike riding in the world okay I mean every 30 minutes you’ll come across some Village and that’s it like [ __ ] oh it’s it’s that’s the other thing I yeah I guess if I had it’d be hard man if there was somebody

Could tell me right now we could leave here and either go straight to onsite or go straight to straight to nice ride like [ __ ] that says a lot about both of them yeah and and just being out and then you get to the tour and it’s

Loud and it’s you know the fans were gnarly towards us most of those years and and you know you get to Paris and there’s [ __ ] 500,000 people on the Shams Le which is great but it’s just different it’s like different than being you know doing a six-h hour

Ride out in the mountains all by yourself like Solitude medit the Village cuz I’m looks like I’m running low on water like [ __ ] roll up like you know in Europe every little village has these little water spouts I just drank that yeah like I didn’t go into a store and

Buy water I just put my water bottle under this yeah you know have the little [ __ ] lion’s head with the metal thing with like all this groy [ __ ] on I was like let’s go yeah like that was cool I was like all right both bottles are full

Let’s go I can imagine too like that’s cool and that’s hard when you get into the race and not only are there people on the roads there’s people in the race 200 guys that that you have a good team but there’s 20 other teams that trying

To figure out how to ruin your day yeah well imagine that the the party afterwards the celebration there’s so many people that want to get a piece of you too well that started yeah it started small and then it just got the last year we had 600 people yeah

That’s a lot which is great for them because you know they support and do all that but it’s also you know you’ve just been through quite a grind and yeah you know yeah the best that yeah that last year I will say if fun I’ve had such a interesting relationship with Yan Ock

Who was my greatest rival that’s like Ali and Frasier you know it’s it’s so special to me he and but we didn’t have a relationship like we were competitors we weren’t friends but we weren’t enemies we just there was this unspoken level of respect and admiration and fear each other and

In 2005 when that year that that was the seventh tour and he got second as he did several times um he his press officer called our press officer and said Yan wants to come speak at the celebration and Yan’s English is is not very good now so you

Can imagine what it was like back then and I was like what and they said yeah man the guy says he wants to come over he [ __ ] came to the party in fromont of 600 rabbit American fans and spoke like it was [ __ ] mind blown the

Greatest what what was the the kind of tenor of we have the video I’ll I’ll you again he just you know he we had such a healthy rivalry and tough rivalry and he’s a unique guy and that he was very softspoken uh very uh simple um and his English wasn’t great

But but he had no qualms about standing up in front of 600 people and tipping his cap to me that was in 2005 so almost 20 years ago and we’ve now had this wild journey together through his you know through his life right through addiction through rehabs it’s been it’s been an

Intense call it five years that I’ve lived with him and now we’re very very close I mean like brothers and he’s clean now he’s Jan has been sober for uh uh we’re uh he’s been sober for 26 months which and I think we got I think

He’s good I think he’s good he uh there was a couple goor rounds I mean he he was and he’ll he he tells this story he Amazon just did a a four-part documentary about his entire life which is he’s had a very you talk about trauma really I mean you can’t believe the

Trauma growing up in East Germany being this Prodigy that system with sports and then the Wall comes down and then seemingly overnight he becomes I mean bigger than Boris Becker for Becker I was a huge Becker fan yeah so he’s bigger than Becker he’s got every everything but he’s not

Equipped to to handle that and he certainly wasn’t equipped to handle what it was like when the world said you’re now a zero and he went off the rails and so the the documentary is for part it’s in German they sent it to me I I sat for

Many many interviews for the documentary and so they sent it to me with the subtitles it’s special and hopefully they’ll bring it to the US but yeah he’s yeah he’s sober his kids are back in his life and uh he was supposed to come over

A couple months ago we had we were gonna have a training camp yeah he was [ __ ] terrified but uh it couldn’t something happened like they went to check in and they were like Homeland Security says I mean when he was off the rails he also did some less than Savory things

Understood and so we’re working through that and trying to get him back over here but is he still riding now that’s his rides yes he’s very simple he he hangs out with his kids he rides his bike does a little promotional stuff did he make good money back then

He he I would think so he still has but you know when you’re off the rails and yeah you can go through a lot through it pretty quickly yeah but um I won’t I will look I love this is I mean he’s a very special person so he he doesn’t

Ever need to worry about money as far as I’m concerned I love the way you’re talking about him it’s very it’s very cool dude well he he was we just had this again we never talked like we we’d shake hands on the start line and if we crossed the Finish Line together we’d

Shake hands like I couldn’t I couldn’t have told you what his birthday was I couldn’t have told you what his wife’s name was I couldn’t have told you where he went to vacation in the winter time like I didn’t know this guy but he was this Mutual fear of each other and and

Arguably way more on my end I was always like what the [ __ ] is Yan doing right now like is he lean is he ready how’s he training like what what’s his power to weight ratio like Yan probably thought about that a little bit but he he was

He’s a little more laidback he’s really yeah you know it’s but this [ __ ] scared me that’s why I was like I’m anybody that scares you get up and you do your best right you’re like I this guy’s not going to get a piece of me um and it’s the reason that ultimately I

Entered his life five years ago because he had pushed everybody away and his friend said um you’re the only person that ever scared him yeah I said I will be there tomorrow so I left Austin and flew straight to Germany and that was the first time and there was it’s interesting up a

Little bit and then it’s interesting that there’s there’s a five years ago there was like a feels like a huge shift that you mentioned it earlier but like now knowing how you showed up for Yan in that moment like I just I’m not a psychologist by any means but it’s just there’s something

Really [ __ ] Lindsay was talking about it earlier like being of service you were of service and there’s something that like I know for myself when things aren’t going well I’m in a funk if I can just find a way to be of service I can see the world differently

You know totally and it takes something big like that I mean we I thought you’re a parent your father um I always think that that’s like the highest level of service is just making sure your kids aren’t complete lunatics but this this is different this is being on this journey with him and

And I me you hear the way I talk about him I mean he’s so special obviously my children are very special my wife is very special but just this God it’s been it’s been a 25 year Journey with him like I would it’s [ __ ] crazy dude there’s really

Like like true reverence when you’re I can just feel it when you’re talking about I me you almost get a little emotional about yeah well I of course I do because uh on so many levels right he didn’t um it’s not it’s it it may be just

Because it’s easier for me to look at his situation like I could look at my situation and say well that’s not fair it’s not fair that the world took me from hero to zero and George hppy and Christian velt and all of my peers in

America got a pass I could look at that say well that’s that’s not fair that’s not for me to say it is a lot easier naturally for me to look at Yan or me to look at pantani who’s now dead and say well that wasn’t fair right what what

You guys did to him you know others are dead Yan tried to be dead um the way you treated him and you gave passes like that’s there’s no balance in that that’s not fair so that then makes me mad right because the consequences it’s not like

The guy it’s not like we’re saying well what are you care he lost endorsements or what do you care the headline said he’s a disgrace no yeah they did say all that and all that [ __ ] did happen but there’s a handful of guys that are dead

There’s one that was almost dead so how how we feel now guys like that’s [ __ ] up so then you get you get angry about it and then you then man I’m just like no I’m not letting this happen again and he was he was the only guy that I mean

Cuz Pani and I had a a more acrimonious relationship and were not friendly um but and I didn’t fear Him in the way that I feared Jan but I did fear him you know just not to that level um and and the day I mean I’ll never forget you know the day that

Somebody called me and said they found him in a Sidi hotel room in Milan out of a cocaine overdose I mean I mean I never had anything good to say about that we take these awful Jabs at each other in the press and call each other names and talk [ __ ] in the race

And [ __ ] somebody calls me he’s like penton’s dead oh [ __ ] like because because they they they destroyed him so I wanted to fight for Yan and and I’m so just so proud of him And if when he comes over you’ll you’ll meet him [ __ ] better he’ll be terrified he’s so he [ __ ] we were in my Orca last September and I was had been training and I would train in the gym before we would ride and he’s like

He like just oh he’s so funny so he gets he like hey what do you you meet him he’s like grab your muscle like hey what what what are you doing what what’s going on here like he’s so [ __ ] simple yeah I love it again I love hearing you

Talk about him that’s really sweet and yeah beautiful we’ll we’ll wrap up and just talk a little bit about professional stuff here I mean this is a nice segue into the podcast the move and the forward forward is more kind of sporadic Yeah well yeah it is now I mean I

Got two things happened I I was on a great Cadence with the original show and that’s how it all started yeah I remember we’re we’re creating content and anybody can create content and and it’s been a part of my journey like if I would have lived 20 years ago 30 years

Ago 50 years ago and had the same thing happen where the world just said okay you’re done I’d be [ __ ] totally [ __ ] but we don’t live 50 years AG we live in a day and a time where anybody can create content anybody can play offense uh and so I did that with the

Forward and I was on a great Cadence of every week which is a grind y and then Co happened I did them all in person I should also say l doing them in person the zoom thing So Co hits plus we moved to Aspen so I got out but but in the

Meantime we start the cycling show actually last summer was our seventh season Jesus yeah seventh season um and we just started that on a whim I didn’t want to talk about cycling finally going yeah let’s just mess with these guys into a cycling podcast like just two

[ __ ] sitting in an Airstream at our neighbors driveway and Aspen no way [ __ ] show goes to number three on iTunes right away I’m like wow we really did [ __ ] with them that was cool and so we just kept doing that and we didn’t have any Revenue we didn’t have ad

Support and that’s all changed so yeah those those are now that shows is huge how fun is that show it’s the tour show is very fun they’re all fun but the the everything outside of the tour we do on Zoom because people are spread out but for

The tour we’re all in person we I guess that’s what I mean like build out this set look we’ve talked about Pat McAfee I mean it’s got a very Pat M mcafe esque Vibe y we don’t take ourselves too seriously at the same time we know more

Than anybody else like and we and we got nobody standing over us saying can’t say that you can’t say that word on NBC or ESPN or whatever say whatever the [ __ ] we want to say yeah right which is also great great so um it’s so good it’s it’s uh and we keep

Doing that and and and then you know on the heels of all of this of those two podcast successes than we talked about it I think on our original show I mean I and it’s but it’s been a long time right that was four years ago yeah we had just started

Raising fund one for next next Ventures we had done maybe one close we did a I think we did five closes to get to $50 million fund so we had some deals we were already in Aura which course been an amazing story thank you where’s yours by the way you

Know it’s sitting you made me park my car a half a mile from the house I wanted to have the [ __ ] the long entrance and I got out of the shower and I was like where’s my watch and my ring they’re sitting in my cup holder in my

Car but I’m not about to walk a half mile over there to represent yeah fine I love how you shamed me when I had the whoop on we we can’t talk about that I got shamed I got whoop shamed yeah um I mean look if you were hanging out with

Phil Knight would you roll up with a pair of Adidas on Dude down well I won’t talk about it but exactly um no so we and fun one has been amazing I have the team is incredible as you know and now we’re raising a second fund and and look

I mean that’s the world has has given me a chance right and sort of joked not getting picked last for kickball which did not happen right second second to last well it didn’t matter but but if you use that um grade school analogy or imagine that scenario where you are

Getting picked for a team or if you’re just out throwing the football and somebody says you know line up at the line of scrimmage and let’s just start throwing routes and you’ve got five there’s always one kid who never gets thrown the ball yeah and there’s one kid who always gets thrown

The ball and then there’s some kids in the middle right and I just not that I was the kid that never got thrown the ball but the world had put me in a place where nobody was going to throw me the ball but that’s not the point the point

Is just like I mentioned a second ago how do you start to recreate reinvent play offense whether it’s starting a podcast raising a fund uh whatever it is um H how do you do that so the way I imagine it is you just start running routes they may not throw you the ball

You might you might run 50 routs and you’re like nobody’s throwing that’s that’s not important what is important is you keep running routes and then there’s three things that are super important after you’ve decided to continue running RS is number one if they throw you the ball because

Eventually they will throw you the ball if they throw you the ball you catch it number two if you catch the ball ball you run and number three and most importantly Do not drop the ball because and that’s significant for me because um I’ve dropped the ball right

And I and so I went back to the line of scrimmage with nothing and just kept running routes running routs running routes no passes no passes then finally the world didn’t so I’ll leave you your your listeners with that I mean it’s it’s and it sounds

Corny it’s the [ __ ] I mean when I had when I was diagnosed with cancer oh by the way yeah you almost died when I was that it was yeah it’s been 20 whatever seven years no gosh this year will be 28 years I imagined Mrs Pac-Man that’s that’s in my head I kept

Visualizing Mrs Pacman like just little if if you’re sick and chemo comes in and and and and cancer cells or this like you’re just oh [ __ ] yeah and then the scoreboard every time I would do tumor markers or any kind of blood work or look at a chest

X-ray that was my scoreboard I’m like [ __ ] kicking the [ __ ] out of these people [ __ ] you want some of this that’s the way I thought like that was my scoreboard now when the game started I was behind by 70 right into the end of the first quarter you’re you’re only

Down by 20 coming back a little bit Yeah and then all of a sudden you’re winning so I always like to think of sports things just maybe because my life but yeah I loved your book run with the ball and do not drop the ball bill bellich right there don’t drop that

[ __ ] you on the bench but I remember reading your book when I was a a young Trader in Chicago it’s not about the bike I loved it it was uh given to me by a friend whose dad was a huge cycling fan and um yeah just [ __ ] marveled that I and again I

We’ve hung out a bunch since then and I I forgot that you had cancer yeah it’s been 28 years I don’t want it again nope no I’m doing everything I can not get it I do everything I can not and and I do everything I can to make sure I know but

If I do get it we live in again it’s not just a time where we can create content right yeah look at look at technology we can whine and complain about technology and it’s impact it has on our children’s lives specifically but yeah that all sucks godamn I wouldn’t want to have some

Crazy I wouldn’t even want to have my diagnosis years ago I’d be smoked 50 years ago I’d be smoked so you know but now whether it’s you know taking deep blood work full body arm just knowing everything like I don’t want I don’t want anybody sneaking up on me again

Yeah yeah well dude this is awesome I mean [ __ ] I I I told you it’s a new me today oh [ __ ] I’m [ __ ] I keep yapping top fish I I’m winning today I’ve gotten [ __ ] boat raced the last two times we’ve played I’ve just trying to hang on and like

You’re hit the Press you’re still ahead I’m still ahead but I have been completely uncompetitive the last three times yeah um but anyway dude thanks for coming on this is I love this I love it I I love sharing my story yeah you uh and there’s some you know it’s it’s been

A gnarly [ __ ] ride and thanks for by the way thanks for you know when I first launched for saying yes you know he didn’t have to do that and it was it was it was an important but you always you always know I don’t I I I say no to most things

That’s we you forget maybe when we were in the gym you mentioned something yeah you gotta say no space well no is the most important word in the in our vocabulary yeah it is the most important powerful word that we can ever use so don’t be afraid to use it yeah um but

You said something in there about about golf I said um you said why aren’t you playing golf today I was like got to say no I need I’m I’m I’m [ __ ] on mission right now but it you know this idea of sharing space that’s those are those are

Like it’s been the beauty of my situation right if I when I said yes to you four years ago to do your show I didn’t have anything to do but damn sure that after my life had been stripped down and stripped back and and incinerated um I was only going to spend

Time with people and share space this is look it sounds corny but I have agreed to share space with you right and you have agreed to share space with me that’s an agreement yeah and if you ever find yourself in a point in your life where you get to make those

Like I spent look I had a wild crazy successful rich life before I didn’t get to make that I was told where interesting you know this is not not in a way like you have to be but like sponsor Comm the the foundation U this person’s important or

This event is important and it’s such a [ __ ] grind how yeah everything that I went through is terrible but I wake up every day it’s like I’m pretty much going to do exactly what I want to do that right there yeah that’s that’s the power that’s when we’re when we own that

Calendar however you want to articulate it work out with who you want to work out with play golf with go out to dinner with who you like podcast with who you want to it’s just saying yes an agreement that’s it yeah yeah that’s I’ve given you gave me an hour of your

Time you did right I know you felt like I gave you but we gave each other that that gift of time and that’s a that’s a serious decision and gift so that’s people should be you know [ __ ] man life St look at the and this is the last last

Thing I will say okay because the Oprah thing was so big would believe me cuz I have to leave and get warmed up and take your money on the golf course but well the gift I’m going to give you is an ass beating in 4 hours of my time so anyway

Oprah um when opr it was when it was the 10 year anniversary was kind of news again they came back it’s fine people were like but when people would say something to me they would be like wow was that really 10 years ago I’m like yeah that was years

Ago man that that feels like yesterday I’m like yeah does okay so then I had this and I don’t you know I’m not the brightest person in the world but I can figure I’m like well hang on a second if that which was 10 years ago feels like yesterday does that then

Mean that 10 years from now is tomorrow because you have you kind of have to apply the same rule in my opinion and I’m like and that’s what go that last summer when it was just I spent the whole summer thinking about this and we had our last summer their

Beautiful home in Aspen before we move back here and I’m like man that’s it like tomorrow is 10 I’ll be 62 like like we can’t waste any time right and and all of this ties in right how you share space and what you don’t have

A lot of these a lot of these agreements left yeah so again if 10 years ago feels like yesterday you have to believe that tomorrow is 10 years from now so [ __ ] get busy it’s yeah well said I think that’s exactly where we drop it because

That is [ __ ] there you know see a little bit smart let’s go play some golf not bad for a dumb kid from Plano